Michelle Betos: From NWSL Goalkeeper to Gamechanger

Episode Transcript
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Michelle Betos (00:00):
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Michelle Betos.

Emily Tisch Sussman (00:12):
Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk
with women who dare to pivot out of one career
and into something new and explore how their personal lives
impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. I'm

(00:33):
so excited about this week's guest because she brings together
two of my worlds, women's soccer and pivoting.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
We have none other.

Than Michelle Betos, one of the most iconic goalkeepers to
come to the National Women's Soccer League.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
She even managed to make.

History as one of the only goalkeepers to score a
goal during gameplay and was named Goalkeeper of the Year.
I first met Michelle just hours after I joined the
team as co owner, and hours before she led the
team to the NWSL Championship in twenty twenty three. I
just knew she was a gem of a person then,
and I'm even more sure of it now. Since then,

(01:09):
Michelle has made her pivot off the field and as
part of our incredible Gotham FC staff. After announcing her
retirement earlier this year, she immediately transitioned into her new
role as Gotham FC's assistant goalkeeper coach.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
But in true she Pivots fashion, she had a little
plot twist of her own.

Earlier this spring, Gotham signed her to come out of
retirement and.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Play for a whole month.

We'll actually share a special update from Michelle about that
experience at the end of this episode.
Think of it like a little epilogue.
In this conversation, we cover everything from her early soccer days,
to what it was like to play professional women's soccer
before there was a stable league to play in, to
where she sees her journey going now she's back on
the coach's bench, working alongside my sister and fearless leader

(01:56):
of the team, Carol and Tish Blodgett.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
So if you haven't listened to.

Her two sheep Pivots episodes, both are gems, both worth
a listen and another she Pivots guest Gotham's general manager
y l Aberbusch West. Together they're all building and supporting
a team and a culture built to be the best
women's soccer team in the world. As the NWSL heads
into the second half of the season, I couldn't think
of a better person to talk to you about what

(02:20):
it's like to experience the sport from both sides of
the pitch than Michelle. She is one of the most
insightful and articulate people I know, and I hope you'll
enjoy our conversation as much as I did.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Let's jump in.

My name is Michelle Beatos. I am currently the assistant
goalkeeper coach for Gotham FC.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
I love it so much. Okay, so we're going to
back up. We're going to go in chronological order. So
we're going to start. We're going to start with little Michelle.

Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Little Michelle is a native New Yorker.

She is. She was never very little though, and so
is big Michelle. I've been about this size, you know,
since I was born, I think.

So, what was your family like, Like was it did
you come from like a big sports family, Like did
you know that it was going to be something athletic?

So big Italian Greek family, loud family. My mom didn't
really play sports, she's pretty on athletic, but love the Yankees,
like the Yankees were like a religion in my house.
My dad was a professional goalkeeper in Greece actually, so,
I mean, some of my earliest memories were this like
little yellow football that we got in like one of
those claw machines and throwing that around, you know, waiting

(03:34):
for mom to leave the house so we could play
ball and you know, get in trouble, just me and
my dad. Yeah, sports were always always part of my family,
watching them, going to them. You know, I would have
to miss school so we could camp out for Yankee
tickets for the playoffs. Like I would beg my mom
to go to school and she'd be like, no, we
need to get Max tickets. You're missing school. We're sleeping
on the streets. We're getting the tickets. So yeah, sports

(03:56):
are definitely like in my blood for sure.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
And I feel like your family is still like this.

I was actually remembering back to the first day that
I showed I mean the first time I met any
of you guys and showed up at in San Diego
at the Championships.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
The first person I was your met was your mom
in the lot.

I did you know that? Okay, Yeah, yeah, they are dedicated.
Obviously my my dad has passed away now, but between
the two of them, they were at I played at
the University of Georgia for college. They were at every
home game most of our road games. I mean I've
played all over the world and all over the country
and the NWSL, and they've been to every market. They've

(04:33):
been to every game. They usually were bringing New York
bagels when I was you know, in Seattle and Portland
and whatever, like cooking for the team, you know, that
was always a joy spot or taking them to dinner.
So yeah, they are passionate sports fans. And they are
passionate Michelle Beatos fans. Whether whether whether it embarrasses me
or not, they are passionate about those two things. I

(04:56):
love that.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Okay.

So you okay, so you went to University of Georgia.
When you went there wasn't like really a US league, right,
So did you think you were like going to go
to college, stayed educated, and then do something else.

Yeah. So, honestly, growing up, I dreamt of playing in
the WNBA. My mom has like caught me in the
shower at like eight years old giving interviews because after
like having you know, scored thirty points in ten rebounds,
because that was what I saw, you know, growing up
the WNBA, and so played basketball and soccer growing up.
Eventually played soccer just because I just felt like I
had the best chance, and I loved it. I fell

(05:34):
in love with it late.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
But yeah, you know, like late, what is late? Like
what do you consider late?

So late I was about I was playing both, but
basketball way more seriously. And then actually met this goalkeeper
coach that is still like one of the most important
people in my life. When I was about thirteen, and
my mom always tells this story. Her and my grandma
were driving me to this trial for this team that
this woman coached, and I was like, you guys are
ruining my life. All I want to do is play

(05:59):
back basketball, like you have no like, I don't have
time for this all this stuff like going on and
on being a brat. And then after the one training
session I worked with this woman, she was a goalkeeper,
and I learned more in that one session than I
felt like I had learned my entire life. And so
I came back in the car and my mom was like, Okay,
did you tell her that you're going to have to
miss some some trainings for basketball? And I was like, oh, no,

(06:22):
I think it's okay. I think I can just you know,
go to soccer training. And my mom was like, what,
like what happened? Out there, you know. So, yeah, I
was about thirteen, and I just fell in love with it.
You know. I had somebody who really invested in me,
and I just felt like I could get so much
better and I learned so much more just about the position,
about the game, and yeah, I fell in love with it.

So she left her WNBA dreams behind and set her
sites on professional women's soccer. At the time, Women's United
Soccer Association or WUSA had recently folded and a new
league sprung up, WPS or Women's Professional Soccer. Enrolled in
the University of Georgia as a goalkeeper, dreaming of one
day playing for the WPS.

WUSA came and went, and then the WPS came, and
so coming out of college, I was hoping to play
in the WPS.

What did it take? Like, what did you think? So
when you graduated, Like, what was it? What was the
vision of what was it going to take?

Yeah, so this is a story I tell a lot
of people kind of to hopefully learn from my mistakes.
So I went to college. I worked my butt off
to get to college for soccer because I had so
much to learn in such a small amount of time.
Coming to the game late, or like dedicating myself to
it late. Then I got to college and I couldn't
really tell you exactly why, but I was, you know,
I was playing, I was starting. I had what people

(07:39):
thought was like, oh, this very good college career, and
at the end of it, I was like, you know,
I want to play professionally. And I ended up going
into pre season with the Boston Breakers at the time,
which was the WPS. Alissa Naire, who obviously just retired
from the national team still playing in the NWSL, was
the goalkeeper there, and I went in the first training
session and I remember getting off the field, calling my family,

(08:01):
calling my friends, calling coaches, and being like, you're all liars.
I am terrible at soccer. You told me I was good,
Like you lied. I am so far from what it
takes to do this. So I remember that night crying,
streaming all the emotions, kind of coming to this place
where like, okay, like I'm so far from where I
need to go. This is either going to take like

(08:22):
every ounce of me or I'm just going to walk away,
call quits, find something else to do, because it was
going to take another level of dedication that I had
probably never given and I sat there that day and
I you know, went through all my range of emotions
and then I was like, Okay, I'm going to do
it and I'm going to give everything to it. So
probably from that day on that was two thousand and eleven,

(08:43):
I was like, I'm going to do it. And so
I had this big picture goal of what I wanted
to be. I looked at Alyssa, I looked at all
the best goalkeepers in the league, like what does it
take to be successful at this level? And this is
where I am, this is where that is. What are
the smallest steps I can complete every single day to
get there? And so for year after year after year,
like I promised myself that I would never walk away

(09:06):
with regrets. You know, maybe I would fail, maybe I
wouldn't get there, maybe I would never achieve anything, but
I was going to give it everything. Because I walked
away from my college career being like I didn't give
it everything I had. I actually don't know how good
I could have been. And so my pro career that
was like my one goal, not even to you know,
make this team or that team or whatever. It was
just like I'm giving it everything. I'm going to walk

(09:27):
away from my career knowing how good I could be,
and so I spent fifteen years doing that, you know,
just every single day. How do I grow, whether it's
on the field, nutrition, mental performance, like watching the game, learning,
asking questions. I mean, I was in so many people
told me early in my career, you know, maybe just
do something else, like maybe this isn't for you, you know,
But yeah, I knew I could do it, and I

(09:50):
knew that it was going to take a crazy level
of dedication. But I did it every single day until
you know, the day I hung up my boots not
too long ago. Yeah, it took everything, literally everything I had.

Can you be specific about what those things were, like
the places that you felt like you were not good enough,
but specifically that you had not tried hard enough. I
think there's a lot of there's a lot of questions
about what it for people, you know, for our listeners,
for people that ask me about got them all the time,
and I don't have the answers, you know, like what
does it mean to actually be a professional athlete right now?

So for for the first thing I realized is like I,
within my career always leaned into my shrinks and like
tried to hide my weaknesses. So throughout my college career,
I really never worked on what I wasn't good at.
So like for me, kicking, like kicking, distribution, like decision making,
playing a ball over distance, I just tried to avoid that.
I'll just give it to my center back. They can
do that, and I'll do what I'm good at, which

(10:42):
is shot stopping, you know, coming into the league, recognizing
that's such an important part, and especially even the game
has grown while I've been in it, so the role
of a goalkeeper has changed even in my professional career.
So really it was just leaning into my weaknesses and
telling myself, like going into training, like I'm going to
fail right now, and I'm going to fail over and
over and over, and it's going to be embarrassing. It's

(11:04):
going to be you know, might cost me playing time,
it might cost me a chance, but I'm gonna do
it so I actually get better at it instead of
hide these things. So I think that was just you know,
like to be a goalkeeper in this league, you need
to be you need to be a shot stopper. You
need to be explosive, you need to be good in
the air on crosses, you need to be aggressive off
your line, and then on top of all the things

(11:24):
you need to do to keep the ball off the
back of that, you need to be able to be
a field player with the ball at your feet. And
it's really really challenging. And I don't know that, you know,
growing up, I was really prepared for that. You know,
I was a shot stopper. I was a goalkeeper. You know,
I'm just going to sit here and I'm going to
keep the ball out. But yeah, I really had to
develop so many new skills. So it was working with
my feet. It was understanding new players in college, your

(11:48):
usually athleticism can get you pretty far in this league.
I learned the first session I was training with Lauren Cheney,
who was like one of the best to ever play
this game. I think she's retired now. And I would
just lean a little bit like this because I thought
she was going there, and she just come back across
my shoulder and I'm like and scored on me every time,
and I'm like how And she's like, I see you
moving and I'm like I'm barely moving, you know. But

(12:09):
it was just another level so really being disciplined really,
so it was work in the gym, to be more explosive,
to be leaner, to be fitter. It was honing in
my nutrition, you know. It was little habits, little decisions
every day. It was getting into meditation, to visualization. You know. Physically,
I worked as hard as I possibly could on the field,
probably so that you know, within that first year, I

(12:30):
pulled my groin, I pulled my hamsterring because I was
pushing my body in a way it never had. So
I also had to learn how do I train when
I'm off the field. So it's watching games, It's watching
good goalkeepers, it's you know, visualizing myself. It's like fixing
mistakes by seeing myself doing it well. It was breath work,
like what's my mindset going in? It was journaling like

(12:51):
and being intentional going into trainings. It was reflection after
what did I do well? And you know, what do
I need to work on for tomorrow? And kind of
the cycle over and over and over. Yeah, I mean
it was never ending, you know. I this is like
such a cheesy quote, but one of the first sports
likes that I worked with said, make your days reflect
your dreams. Somebody should be able to follow you throughout

(13:11):
one day. And know exactly what you're going after. So
like for me, I was like, what does my day
look like? Of course I can't kick a ball for
twenty four hours, but that means getting the right amount
of sleep, That means eating in a certain way, that
means taking care of my body in a certain way,
watching games, watching film, reviewing things, asking questions. I was,
you know, within this league from day one to the

(13:33):
day I retired year round one percenters like these incredible
athletes with these incredible mindsets that like you kind of
take for granted sometimes, like you're sitting next to a
World Cup winner and an Olympian here and there, and
it's like, how do I pick their brains? How do
I understand everything it took for them to be successful
and then figure out what's true for me, what also
works for me? So yeah, it was kind of this

(13:55):
like never ending ascension for me. You know, I thought
one day in my career like, oh I finally made it,
And at some point I realized that's never going to happen,
you know, like until my body falls apart or until
I can't physically do it anymore. Like growth is always possible,
you know, And so yeah, it just becomes this chase

(14:16):
and this journey to just keep finding little ways. You know,
I say this all the time, but soccer and life
are game of inches, you know. Like the difference in
our team winning and losing is literally like maybe it
hits my glove, hits the post and goes out, or
maybe it hits my glove and it goes in. You know,
it's millimeters. So like sometimes we want to chase yards
and miles and cover distances like from where we are

(14:39):
to where we want to go in one day, but
it just doesn't work like that. So it's like every
single day I was like, Okay, how do I gain
an inch today? And every day is different.

It's important to note that Michelle entered professional women's soccer
before the creation of the NWSL and before the league's
first ever collective Bargaining Agreement or CB, which was announced
in twenty twenty two and guaranteed players minimum pay and
introduced free agency and for non sports folks out there,
without true free agency, teams controlled the player's rights indefinitely,

(15:14):
meaning that even after a contract expired, the team could
keep the player's rights, preventing her from signing freely with
another club. Unless that team traded for her rights, leaving
players with zero leverage to find a better salary role
or location. Not to mention their salaries were horribly low
to begin with, and can you talk about how you

(15:35):
balanced the off field as well, because particularly of those
look players are not compensated as they should be right now.
But it was like not a living wage. Yes, so
how did you manage all of that with the financial
compensation being I mean, can you talk a little bit
about that. I mean it was ya Ilepitt was paid
ten thousand when she was in the national team.

Yeah, the year I won Goalkeeper of the Year, I
was making twelve thousand dollars. It's wild, you know, it's
hard to even explain what that was like. To be fair,
the season was shorter, so he played about six months,
and then in the off season I would always go overseas,
so I went to Denmark, I went to Australia, I
went to Norway. I went, you know, just to make

(16:17):
money and keep playing in the off season. And typically
at that time you could make more money as a
foreigner going overseas. But within season I was I would
train and then I would train two or three goalkeepers
I would do sessions online. I would just try to
find ways to make money. I honestly am still well
not still honestly, probably since I was CBA where there's

(16:39):
finally a minimum salary and later on in my career
where I was making more money. Still you know, obviously
we're pushing for more. I was able to like pay
off credit card debt because that was real. You know.
I saw I met a girl the other day that
I played with who was saying, she's coaching now, but
she like people don't realize, like she's still paying off
debt from that time, like it was, you know, it

(17:00):
was a crazy time to manage. So yeah, it was
just how do I make money? But how do I
also take care of my body. That's also how I
kind of got into like mentoring and doing things online
because you can only physically work for so long. But
I could be in my norma tech boots and you know,
help an eleven year old on her mental side of
the game, or work with college athletes or things like that.

(17:20):
So you kind of had to get creative. You know.
Anytime there was appearance, like all my hands were up,
please like let me do the appearance. But that was
all of us. That was just the reality, you know,
And I think for my generation, we were always holding
onto the idea that it would become what it is
today and beyond. You know, it's such a rewarding thing
the past, like three four years, I would say, like

(17:43):
my generation of players, like, yes, we're always pushing for more,
we're always asking for more, but we're also like, take
a second, look how far we've come. Because within my
you know, lifetime, growing up, like you said earlier on
in this conversation, we didn't know if there was going
to be a pro league. So I remember early on
in my career seeing the girls in the stands and
being like, you have something in front of Your dream

(18:06):
is in front of you. You can see it every day,
and like, to me, that's a dream come true because
when people can see it, when they and they feel it,
they're they're at our games, they're in LA, they're in Portland,
and they feel the crowds and the atmosphere, it's like, yeah,
I want to do that, Like, yeah, I'm going to
chase that, and maybe I'm going to make the decisions
that make me chase that instead of leave sport. So yeah,

(18:28):
So like that was such like it's been such a
rewarding thing to see where the league has come, you know,
the investors, people like your family, everything, it's just yeah.
To know that it was going to finally be this
and be this for the next generation is like one
of my dreams come true. It was the first time
as players we came together and we said the way
we've been treated, the things that have happened are not okay,

(18:51):
and enough is enough. And even just for one game,
we all came together and said, no, we're not playing,
like what's happened is not okay. And I think that
was such a groundbreaking just moment in this league because
players finally recognize their value and like, look, there's no

(19:11):
league without us. There's such a future for this, Like
we're not going to put up with sexual abuse, visibal abuse,
you know, without free agency. You know, for almost all
of my career, like teams just owned you and it
didn't matter. Like I had a contract in Portland, my
contract was up and instead of being able to renegotiate,

(19:32):
they just said, here's your offer, take it or leave it.
But actually you can't leave it because we own you.
So I went overseas to get my rights back, and
while it was overseas, another team just claimed my rights
because we didn't have any. So yeah, free agency is
a huge benchmark. Minimum salary, you know. I remember one
of the first year's minimum salary was around. There was

(19:54):
a rookie and she was like, you know, it's so hard,
I'm poor. And I was like, oh, no, you don't
know poor, you don't know more. You know, yes, fight
for more, Yes, it needs to go up. Yes, like
we're driving for more. But also we have come so far.
You know, some of us were making five hundred dollars
a month, you know, like, so yeah, I think free agency,
I think minimum salary. I think and just seeing like

(20:17):
the people coming in, the investors, people coming in and
being like this is something special, not like oh this
is a write off, this is you know, this is
just something I'm doing because my daughter plays. It's like, no, like, actually,
this is a business and we respect it. You know.
I think that's what you've seen over the past couple
of years, seeing the evaluation of teams like you know
up there with you know, some of the men's teams.

(20:38):
It's incredible. So yeah, so there's been benchmarks to be
honest for me, it was more like it wasn't so
much what happened in my career. It was just more
like what it could be. Having this vision of what
it could be and then getting to see those benchmarks
later in my career. Were just icing on the cake
and like kind of like a deep.

Sigh after the break. Michelle takes us back to what
those early years playing professional women's soccer were really like,

(21:17):
can you tell us a little bit just to elaborate
with people, including me, you know, really don't understand like
what some of those early years were, Like.

Yeah, it was just wild. Honestly, this has like been,
you know, a place of reflection for me and like
pushed so long. Even in the youth game, players were
treated in a certain way kind of like verbal abuse.
Talked about our weight, talked about like really inappropriate ways,
not like in constructive ways, you know, like making comments
about somebody being fat from the sideline, coaches saying like

(21:49):
really inappropriate things. When I was growing up in my club,
we had three coaches that were in relationships with players
under eighteen, and that was normal. That was all I knew.
And so you go to the pro league and it's
like that, and you kind of always have this little
feeling in your stomach like something feels wrong, this isn't right,
but like, also, this is just how it is. It's

(22:12):
if you want to play pro sports, this is how
it is as a woman. And I feel like it
was actually it's been like a real like challenge for
my generation to understand what is right and wrong because
what we learned for so long was this is just
what it is. And then finally somebody standing up and
being like, no, I'm not going to take that anymore.
That was a turning point and being like, yeah, that

(22:34):
is wrong. Yeah, power dynamics are a real thing. I
never knew. I never even knew those two words together,
you know, So I think that was a reality. But yeah,
just the reality of the salary and you know, trying
to make like you were full time professional but you
were working other jobs because you had to. Yeah, And
it was like, honestly, I played in Portland for a
lot of that time, and our facilities and everything were

(22:56):
probably the best at that time. But I know, for
like Mandy Freeman, who's been at Gotham Skyblue since day one,
like they didn't have showers at the facility, they trained
at like a D two college where the fields were
no one would step foot on that field right now,
you know, they were like risking ankle injuries every day.
People were so underpaid in terms of staff, so you

(23:19):
had one staff member trying to do eight jobs. So
obviously nothing's done well even when you have the best
person in place, Like it's to no definite, you know,
no fault of their own. It's just impossible. I had
an athletic trainer in my first year when I said
my hamstring was hurting. That was literally looking in a
textbook for hamstring stretches, and I was like, what do
you mean, Like this is your job, you know. Yeah.

(23:43):
I think the reality was then, like colleges were so supported.
Like I played at the University of Georgia. We had
a good football team, so we had the best of
everything our locker rooms, our gear, like our athletic trainers,
our strength coaches, things like that. So it was almost
like going from college to pro you were going a
step down. Like yes, you were getting paid to play,
but like actual resources, facilities like fields, everything were so

(24:08):
so far from what we actually experienced in college. Playing
professionally felt like a sacrifice. For a lot of my career,
you know. And the reality is the people who did
it did it because they just purely love this game,
like they loved playing this game. But there are so
many players in my generation that never really reached their

(24:29):
full potential because they had to at a certain point.
You can't make it work, you know, like it's not
financially feasible. It's not like, you know, like you can
make so much more money, especially with the amount of
time and hours. Because that's the thing, Like the league
has grown, the resources have grown, everything has grown, but
our actual dedication has always stayed the same. So you
were working, you know, twenty four hours a day to

(24:50):
achieve this dream, just like you are now. But you
just weren't being compensated or really able to maximize yourself
when you don't have the proper resources and every you need.
So yeah, I mean there were no showers. You have
to wash your own gear. Yeah, traveling was insane. You
would have layovers the night before a game and then

(25:10):
eat the hotel breakfast and like pray you had enough
fuel for the game. You know, like it was just
all it just wasn't professional, you know, like we were
playing professional sports. But it wasn't professional. You never really
felt like a professional athlete. I would say game day
at the Portland Thorns felt like a professional athlete because
there's like twenty thousand people in the sands and so
like on game day you get to feel that, but

(25:32):
every other day you're like kind of like a second
class citizen to the men's team or to whatever else
is around you.

I want to turn it to the positive about like
you know, how changes that have been made and what
things felt impactful for you, Like what were the things
you know you said, like stepping onto the field with
a packed stadium made you feel like a professional athlete,
Like what are those things that made you feel like, yes,
I will stay in this, I will keep going. And
where have you seen big changes that I felt hugely impactful?

Yeah? I think that's the reality is that every year
it's grown, you know, like it was like every year
the next year was a bit better, at least in
my experience, you know, whether it was yeah, like the
stadiums like game day, like it just was such a rush,
you know, I was. I played at Portland a lot
a lot of my career, and I played at Seattle
a lot of my career. So like having those rivalry

(26:22):
games where it's like fans are booing and screaming, and
you know, the Portland Thorns fans were known for like
talking so much trash behind your goal, but you're like, like,
you know, you're loving it, you know. Yeah, I think
it was just honestly, the fans. Like I whenever I
get a chance, I try to thank the fans because
for me, it was the kids coming up, seeing them
care and idolize us, and you know, the autographs after

(26:44):
the game, and the conversations after the game, the you
know Twitter messages at that time, being like hey, like
you made my daughter's night. You know, like having even
just the smallest platform to do that was a reward
and you are living a dream. You know, Like it's
hard to really explain, but like I wanted. I was
a pro athlete, you know, I was with the best

(27:06):
of the best every single day, and that was the reward.
You know. I was sitting next to these girls who
had achieved everything in the game, and they were my teammates,
they were my friends. Yeah, it's the people in the game,
I think, the relationships and like, honestly, for me, it
was just this like drive of like how far can
I go? What can I do? And and how can

(27:26):
I help? You know, like how can I inspire? I
think that's always been a huge driver of mine. And yeah,
I think it was just always driving towards what it
could be versus you know, what it necessarily was in
the beginning.

First, one of the things that struck me the first
time that I met all of you at the Championship
game was how physically strong everyone is and how and
how everyone carries themselves.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Like I don't think you all realize how inspiring that.

Is, but for women to be physically strong and unapologetic
about it was incredibly inspiring for me. I was like,
I want my kids in here. I want everyone to
know about this, Like I want everyone to see these
players on and off the field. And you know that
my son loves you.

I love them. You're so cute, but I love that.
That's the thing. Like the little boys, like I know
that's so That's when those are moments when I feel
like we've made it. You know, it's not just the
little girls being like oh I want to be like
or it's like no little boys see like this is
good soccer, Like this is cool. You know, this is
something I want to do. You know, I've I've gotten
so many dms and whatever of like I played with

(28:33):
you on FIFA and you know, like things like that,
and it's like, yeah, that that's what it should be,
you know, respect for the game, you know, and I
think our national team has historically been the most successful
national team and done so well on the world stage,
so I think it was always that too. It was
like we like, we want to be the best league
in the world. We have the best players in the world,

(28:54):
you know, and obviously there are a lot of other
very good leagues, but it was like we could see
what we could be because we were watching our girls
do it week in and week out or tournament and
tournament out, you know. So yeah, I think that's yeah.
I just think that's so cool.

It's when people ask us, like ask me and Carolyn,
you know, do you do this for your daughters, like
we both have daughters and sons, and we're like, yes,
but it's also for our sons. Yeah, because seeing women
who are competitors, who are dedicated, who are strong, like
that's something that we want our sons to see equally
as much as our daughters, like our daughters.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Seplanting in our cases like don't.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's amazing. Yeah, And like that was
part of it too. That was part of the early
like we had a platform and we were doing something
about it, you know, like black lives matter, equality issues,
Like I was around just these badass women who just
stood up for things bigger than us, Like it was
always about something bigger than us. Like I don't know,

(29:52):
it's just like being part of this league from you know,
day one, it felt like being a part of something bigger.
It was a movement, you know, and like look at
what women's sports have done, and like this generation now
will benefit from what we've done and hopefully keep driving it.
But like even my generation, like we sat on the
backs of giants, you know, like the ninety nine ers.

(30:13):
You know, I would say there's not a player in
my generation that isn't in mouvet soccer on some level,
because we watched the ninety nine ers just like bad
as women doing something that people didn't think they should do,
completely under resource like and then just went and killed it,
you know, and brought people in the stadiums, you know,
And so we had that inspiration in front of us,
and we knew also what an inspiration we could be

(30:34):
for the next generation for everyone.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
July tenth, nineteen ninety nine, Pasadena, California.

And then she rips off her jersey Flex's sports brat.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
Page of every magazine across the name.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
We won the World Cup at home in front of
a lot of people watching on TV and packed rosemult
Stadium and it was really cool. And that's when soccer
just started. By the USA Live with Morgan's Drinkings, He's
trying to.

Christine Loding is ready for the corner rhymes it far
side headed, my wa bach.

Real side leads.

It does feel like right now women's sports in general
is surging. What do you think, like, what are the
cultural conditions that have been created?

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Like why right now?

Basically, you know, I don't know, you know, like I
just think that it's time. Like I think I don't
know what makes it happen right now? You know, I
feel like we're seeing it now. But it's kind of
like it's like the Iceberg analogy. Analogy, like the work
has been done for years and years and years, and
now it's peeking over the water and maybe now people

(31:54):
are ready to receive it, but I think it's just
been like in the works for so long. Like no
one in my class of this league or before is surprised, like, yes,
it's so different than when we started. But I'm not like,
oh my god, like I can't believe this. I'm like, yeah,
of course, you know. And so I don't know why

(32:15):
right now in this moment, but I just think, like
when you look at the Caitlin Clarks and you know,
it's the Sue Birds before that, it's the Diana Tarazzi's
like in my mind, you know, so like they've like
the Abby Wombacks, the people before my generation, and then
the people the Alex Morgan's like the people of my generation.
Like I think they've done the work, and now it's

(32:35):
like we're finally peeking over the water, you know, like
it's finally like being recognized. But I just think it's
been years and years in the making and it's just
now coming to the surface. So that's my best answer.

We do think a part of the reaching like the
next level of audience is is having them feel attached
to the stories.

I yeah, I think so, And I think I think
it's just actually being having viewership you know, like when
I was drafted, I was drafted on Twitter and I
was sitting in my car like refreshing Twitter. Now they
you know, now there's not a draft, but like the
last draft was on TV and it was streamed, like
people have access. Like I think now the difference is

(33:16):
like there's coverage of women's sports, so like maybe people
would have been interested before, but they really couldn't even
find it. Like I remember my family trying to find
games and they're like, yeah, I'm on ESPN and I'm
watching corn Hole, Like where's your game. I'm like, no, actually,
we're you know, we're on Twitch this week, you know,
and like no offense to Twitch, but it's like, no,
we should be on ESPN over Cornhole, you know. Like

(33:39):
I think it's just you know, actually brands coming in
and Amazon and everybody like coming in and being like
this is a product worth watching. So now it's out there,
now people see it. Like there's so many people that
were like, oh, like I just watched this women's game
for the first time, like this is amazing. You know.
It's like always been about getting them to see it.

(34:00):
We were always confident like if you see it, you'll
come back. It's just a matter of getting them to
do it first and getting people to buy in. And
obviously that's a process bigger, you know, above my pay
grade in terms of things I understand. But I think
that's it is. They have access to it, they can
see it, and I think it's hard not to appreciate.
Like you said, like it's badass people, like bad as women,

(34:22):
but bad as people like the girls that played with
the girls I'm coaching now, Like they're incredible, like incredible
humans too. Like I think that's the thing about women.
And maybe I'm biased, but like we have World Cup
winners that are like badass moms. We have so many
women in this league that are doing this full time,
killing it on the field, and then like in law school,

(34:45):
like they are you know, like they're starting movements, they're
starting companies, they're like building a coffee shop. Like there's
just like I used to be on the Players Association
and I would sit in those meetings and be like, man,
like we're awesome, like this group of women, Like we're
playing sports and that's what we've chosen as like our
avenue to express ourselves. But like I would look around

(35:08):
that room or look around that zoom call and be
like these women could do anything, and they are doing
it for anything, you know, Like they are changing this league.
They will be business women in this league. They will
be gms, they will be coaches, like they will be nutritionists,
they will be strength coaches, or they will like completely
lead this sector and go kill it wherever they go.
So I do think, like you said, like it's about

(35:28):
the like getting to know them as people too, Like
I think that goes a long way, because like I
don't think I know one person in this league that's
like only good at soccer. Like I'm constantly like, how
are these people good at everything? How is she so smart? Also?
You know, yeah, they're just awesome.

When we come back, Michelle digs into her decision to
retire from professional soccer and the mixture of emotions that
comes with leaving behind a passion she works so hard
on for so many years, and later on we get
an update from Michelle on what it was like to
come out of retirement to play for her former team.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Stay tuned.

So that brings us into your pivot that you're pivot
into coaching. So you were you were like physically training.

Yes, I was it was very much a hard pivot.
I would say. I think I started said this earlier
in our conversation. I'm somebody who's like all landa or
I'm out, And I always thought they would come a
time in soccer where I'm like, oh, like I don't
love it anymore. I loved it and now now I don't.
Or I loved playing and now I don't. And over

(36:46):
the past couple of years, maybe me has been a
little shakier and body has been a little worse, but
I've been like, I still love this, Like I have
joy every day. So what do I you know, when
do I you know, like when it has to end sometime?
Like when does that happen? And I think for me, honestly,
the time I started even thinking about anything else was

(37:08):
honestly getting into some of the mental performance coaching stuff
that I've been doing, because I was like, I would
get off a session with you know, a college athlete,
a pro athlete, honestly, some of my teammates and be like, WHOA,
Like I just felt like in the flow and in
the zone like I do on the field. I didn't
know I could experience that somewhere else, like oh wow,
like helping that person just felt like making a great save.

(37:30):
I didn't know I could feel that somewhere else, you know,
And so that kind of started getting my wheels turning
of like, oh, there's something else I really want, Like
this has been my dream for so long, it's like
what do you dream next? And honestly, there was a
lot of me that was going to play at least
another year, was like I still have more to give.
And really what put me over the edge was seeing

(37:52):
what an opportunity I had here.

While I leave the hiring to my sister, I just
know that they saw what we all see in Michelle,
a hard working, caring, and passionate person.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
Michelle was offered a position as assistant.

Goalkeeper and is now coaching our seasoned players like top
goalkeeper in the world and Katrin Berger and rising stars
like Ryan Campbell and Shelby Hogan.

To do what I'm doing now, a like, obviously I'm
the assistant goalkeeper coach, so like Anne, obviously he's an
incredible goalkeeper, but Shelby and Ryan are also just like
so exciting. I get like so excited talking about them
because like it's so cool to see them now and
see their futures like I can see it. I have
been in this league enough to know like, oh, like

(38:39):
there's something special there, and I'm really excited and I'm
excited this is being broadcasted so that you know, in
five years I could be like I told you so. No,
but like so that was part of it, but also
just like part of coming in something I spoke to
Yil about and obviously as captain last year, had a
lot of conversations with Carolyn Is about like culture development
and like growing this and like really supporting the players

(39:01):
and like I just believe athletes can't be treated just
as athletes. It's about like the holistic person and when
you get when you have a person in the best
well being and like best resources and whatever, like they're
going to be the best athlete they can be. And
I think for me, the opportunity to have an impact
on like the culture and work with the athletes individually,
plus get to do the goalkeeping step, which I'm so

(39:23):
passionate about, was like like kept me up at night.
You know, I'd be like have a training session in
the morning where I was supposed to be training for myself,
but I'd be up at night, literally three o'clock, be like,
like that's kind of a dream, and I didn't know
if I would have another dream, you know. And I
think for me, it's just like somebody asked me early
on in my career, like what's your driver, what's your why?

(39:44):
And I could list a million you know, my family
and you know, finding out the but like, really, what
it has always been for me is like I want
to find my own version of greatness. Like I want
to know how great I can be, so then I
can help others find their own version of greatness. I
have just been so lucky. I feel like they've been
like hand placed by God or whatever everybody believes, universe whatever.

(40:06):
But like for me, of like these people in my
life that have come in at the right time and
have been like a pathway to another version of myself,
like a better version. And so for me, like I've
always known I wanted to be that for other people,
and so like to have the opportunity here to do
that with these goalkeepers, who I think are really special,
but also for this team as a whole, you know,
for this organization as a whole. Like I'm not just

(40:28):
saying this because she's your sister and your family. But
like I love working with Carolyn, like she has such
she's a badass. She's a dreamer, you know, like she
has big visions and big goals. And came in not
seeing what this was, but what it could be. And
Yaielle was a former teammate of mine. You know, I
know how she thinks, I know how she functions, and
then you know, I just there's such an opportunity here.

(40:48):
And I was like if I didn't take this, what
I regret it? And you know, everything I've said like
comes down to like regrets, and I was like, I
think I would regret not taking this, And to be honest,
I'm I sat with it for so long, waiting for
some like light or sign or whatever, and then finally
it was like I'm just doing it, Like I don't
need something outside like I feel it, I'm doing it.

(41:10):
So I did it on like a Tuesday night and
came in for meetings on a Wednesday morning, And honestly,
because I didn't have the time to truly process like
grieve my playing career whatever, like I was, there have
been parts of me that are like that were worried,
like okay, like what is it going to feel like
what is it gonna feel like the first time I'm
on the fields and I'm not playing, I'm training, you know,

(41:31):
I'm helping others, Like what's it going to feel like
being in the environment. And there's definitely been adjustments and
it's definitely a transition per but like there hasn't been
a single day where I'm like, oof, I should have played.
And honestly, the craziest thing to me is like there
hasn't been a day where I'm on the field where
I'm like, oh, like I wish I was still playing.

(41:51):
And it's not because I don't love playing, but it's
I really feel like I exhausted it. Like I left
everything out Like from the day I said I would
fifteen years ago to now, like I gave every single
thing I could. I accomplished things I like people never
thought I would. I achieved, you know, Like what did

(42:12):
I want to walk? Like I wanted to walk away
from this game. I wanted to be a champion, I
wanted to win a shields. I've done those things, you know,
Like there was a certain point in my last like
year or two, I'm like what else am I chasing?
Like I was goalkeeper over the year, I was on
a Team of the year, Like what do I need?
Still individually because like the reality of playing professional sports
is even when your drivers are bigger than yourself, it's

(42:33):
really selfish because you have to be every single day
You're like what do I need to eat? What how
do I need to sleep? What do I need for
my recovery? What do I I? And that's how you
do it well, you have to. By nature, I derive
so much joy from others, from giving to others, from
helping others, Like and at a certain point, I'm like,

(42:55):
what if I spent all this energy that I've invested
in myself in helping other people? Seems like it could
be really cool, you know, like and so like I
don't know. It's just been honestly a new dream come
true for me. And it was a hard pivot and
it was scary, and there's still like a processing, you know,
like I've had to be like what do I do

(43:15):
for me now? Because actually now everything I do is
for everybody else? So like do I still meditate? Do
I still eat this way? Like I've told I was
talking to Tirna the other day and she was like,
how's it going or something, And I was like, sometimes
I stare at food and I'm like, what do I
need to eat? I don't know because I've like my
operating systems are pretty different, you know, for fifteen years,
thirty years, you know, I've operated in a certain way,

(43:37):
and now I'm like, it's like I'm baffled at the
smallest decisions. And that's a reality. Like I've talked to
a lot of people have retired, and it's like, I
actually don't know if there's enough like conversation and like
support around that, because your whole life changes and you
don't realize that. Like all our players right now, everything
they do, even the things they do for their family,
the things they do for fun, like always in the

(43:59):
back of their mind, they're like, but I shouldn't be
on my feet, but I need to be watching film,
but I need to be doing this. Like it's it's
like I've never gone on a vacation with anyone anywhere,
or I have a googled gym first, what's the nearest
field I can get to? So it's definitely something I think,
like probably another conversation, but I do think there's like

(44:21):
not enough support and like conversation around like how crazy
a time that is, whether it's from pro even college athletes,
Like they go through this rough period where they're like
everything I was, I'm not anymore, So what does that
even meant? But yeah, so like it was a very
very hard pivot, and I'm kind of learning as I
go in some ways. But also like I feel so

(44:44):
much like peace and like alignment with like who I
am and like my highest self like in what I'm doing,
And that is a really cool experience, like being in
Spain with the team and doing some of this culture stuff,
working with the girls, helping them individually, helping them collectively.
Like I feel that feeling of winning a game in
the ninetieth minute, of making a big save, like and

(45:05):
I just really didn't know if I could ever have
that again. So like I'm honestly so grateful for it.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
When you talk about culture building piece, what are some
of those things that you're striving for and how are
you implementing it?

So I honestly think culture is so important because I
think that culture either maximizes potential or detracts from potential.
That is my experience in sports. So I think the
reason I'm so passionate about it is because it's another way. Ay,
I think people should have joy and positive well being
as a general standard obviously, but also just from my

(45:42):
competitive mindset, like I'm so obsessed with optimizing and maximizing potential,
and I think this is a way to do it,
you know. So like from the human standpoint, it's like
taking care of people. I think people first, whatever, but
I also think holistic development and holistic care actually brings
out the best versions of individuals, which brings out the
best version of the team. And so it's why I'm

(46:04):
so passionate about it. And then kind of so I've
been working with Premier Sports Psychology, which is a group
that Gotham has brought on to kind of work on
this facet of things, and it's a They've been amazing
and we've kind of broken it down into phases. So
phase one, which is like was the Spain trip Florida
kind of all of preseason was just building a foundation

(46:26):
because when you have trust and vulnerability and connections and
relationships as a foundation, everything else is easier. So when
we inevitably have a hard time this season, that base
is there. When we have to have hard conversations which
we will have to have.

That base is there, and by the way, I think
normalizing the fact that all of those things will happen, like,
don't be surprised when you have a hard day, when
you have a hard conversation, they will happen thousand percent.

Yeah, they're in any season, in the most perfect locker room,
in the most perfect team that has ever existed, there
is a herd. There are hard times, there are hard days,
there are hard periods, like pro sports are really hard.
It is a blessing to get to do this. But
I think that some people, probably on the outside, don't
realize like how mentally challenging it is to do this

(47:17):
every day. It is this weird profession where your joy
and your hobbies and your passion actually become your job.
You don't have other hobbies or passions because the ones
you would choose are actually your job. But you can't
keep doing those because you can't do so much of that.
You have to find Like for me, I like literally

(47:37):
would like do the most wild things to just find
what else I like. But if you ask me what
I wanted to do on a day, I'd be like,
I want to play soccer or I want to play basketball,
but that's actually my job and I need to take
a step away from that. But also like it becomes
your identity, it becomes what people know you as. Like
it is. So it's a really really difficult individual journey.
So having twenty six women on really difficult individual journeys

(48:03):
part of a bigger, really difficult collective journey. Because winning,
in the end of asel is probably the hardest thing
to do, like in terms of compared to other leagues,
like the competitive nature of the top team to the
bottom league doesn't exist anywhere else. There's no league in
the world where on any given day anyone can win.

(48:26):
So it is we are facing one of the hardest
challenges you can face, I think, as like as in
terms of a profession. So yes, it will be hard,
it will be really hard, and everything is hard, but
there's also such great reward, Like winning every game, winning
feels so good because you know it's been like it's
a challenge. It's really a challenge, and it's taken everybody

(48:47):
to do it. And now phase two we're moving into
like kind of really naming our culture, our mission, our values,
and that's something Carolyn and like the ownership group has
done from the top down. But what's going to be
really important in this is part of phase two is
then presenting those things they're meeting with our leadership group
and a few from staff to really own what does

(49:08):
that mean to Gotham twenty twenty five, because that's the
reality too, is like you could have a list of
words or values on a paper and what that means
to you is different than what it means to me.
But within a team, what is so important is that
it becomes what does that mean to us? So as
we go through that this is the club, this is
what our standards are, and this is who we have

(49:30):
to be because we're part of this club. But like,
what does that mean to you? Mandy? What does that
mean to you? Shelby? What does that mean to you?
Tier Net, Like how do you see this? What does
this behavior look like? And really identifying like what it
means to be part of Gotham and what it means
to be part of Gotham this year, and what we
expect from each other, how we hold each other accountable
and then kind of the next layer of that is
when it's not happening because we are humans and we

(49:53):
are going to mess up and we are going to
notlold those values one day because that's what happens. How
do we handle that person, How do we support that person?
How do we approach that person? Maybe for this person
it's this way, but maybe for this person it's not.
So then we go back to the relationships we've developed
and things we've learned about each other, like, oh, so
and so really likes a text, you know, maybe this

(50:15):
person really likes just a direct conversation. Maybe this person
wants to be left alone, And then next day we
address it. So that's that's kind of where we are.
And then the rest of the season will really be
about maintenance and growing those things, and when those things
are challenged, what we come back to. It's all about this,
Like the foundation we build is everything, and then from
there it's maintenance and you know, visiting things and maybe

(50:35):
tweaking things as we go. But like, who are we
going to be and who are we going to say
at the end of this season, no matter the result,
no matter what happens, but hopefully we're standing on a
podium and we're like, this is who we are and
this is who we were when times were the hardest,
and this is who we were when things were the best.
And if you can get a team to be the
same thing in those times, like I think that's how

(50:59):
you maximize them. That is how you get the best.
And it's obviously way easier said than done, and you know,
you have a goal and a plan and plans change,
but like that is our approach and that is something
I'm like so so grateful to be a part of. Then, yeah,
it's really exciting.

Honestly, what do you want for Gotham and what do
you want for the league?

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Like what it will be markers of success for Gotham?

I want. I want us to play ourselves soccer every
single week, and I want us to play bravely and
fearlessly and together. I think if we can be united
and everything we do play without fear, that it's going
to bring joy and it's going to be exciting and

(51:44):
like rewarding and I just want, yeah, like if I
could ask the group like anything, it would just do
everything fearlessly and together. And it's a broad statement, but
like I think if we can do that week in
and week out, that's when the big things, you know,
the little things lead to the big things. And so
if that's who we are every week, in everything, in
every training, I think that's who we end up being.

(52:06):
I would love to see like bigger picture. I would
love to see more fans in the stands, you know,
like get more people to see it because I think
they'll love it, which we started to see already last
year we were breaking records, Like can we keep getting
them there? Can we make it a great time for them?
Can we make it enjoyable? Can you know? Can we
win a shields? Can we win a championship? Like? I
think those things are always there to me, I almost

(52:26):
think it's kind of frivolous to to say those things,
because no one's in this league. If you don't want
to achieve those things, I don't think you end up
in this league. But of course that's what we want.
But I want people to feel like really proud, like
really proud to be part of this team, really proud
of what we've done, really proud of who they've been individually.
Like that's that's just something I want for each player

(52:48):
for the league. Yeah, I mean I think it's the
same I think you know, in I think the talent
level is just like every year flying off the charts,
like it's just getting better and better. So I want
to continue to see that because it's exciting and we
want to be the best league in the world. I think,
you know what I think is like a real marker
of how special this league has become and I think

(53:11):
will continue to be. Is it used to be everyone
played in this league to try to be on the
national team. That was the end goal. It was like
the NWSL was like, Oh, if I play well enough
in the NWSL, get called to the national team. And
I think probably last year, maybe even the year before,
So the first time I feel like I've seen players
in this league be like it's enough to play in

(53:32):
the NWSL, Like it's actually bad ass to play in
the NWSL, And if all I ever do in my
career is playing the NWSL, like, that's amazing.

Before we head into our closing question, I got the
exclusive with Michelle to hear her side of her experience
coming out of retirement to play again for Gotham FC. So, Michelle,
we are back here for an update since we last
had the interview.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Because your whole story and.

That you were a player you prohiboitted to being a coach,
and we have an epilogue.

Yes, it has been quite a rollercoaster ride and definitely
not something I predicted in our first conversation.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Yeah, where do we start?

Honestly, have loved coaching the goalkeepers been something that's really
really special to me. And you know, for so much
of my life I fought really hard to be a
professional soccer player and give everything I had and you know,
be valuable to the team. And then you know, probably
in the moment where that was the thing I was
fighting for the least, it happened again. I was in

(54:34):
a session one day and was, you know, just going
through our normal things, training our goalkeepers, and then all
of a sudden, one of our goalkeepers, Shelby, grabs her
thumb after making a great save actually, and you know,
I was a little concerned, but I'm like, okay, it's okay,
Like I've messed up all my fingers, so I was like,
oh yeah, another one bites the dust. And then a
couple of minutes later, Ryan, our rookie goalkeeper, lands and

(54:57):
kind of grabs her shoulder.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
And then walks out, and I'm like, she's you know,
that might.

Hurt, but she's tough, not a big deal kind of
finish the session, go into lunch. The girls are making
jokes about how I'm gonna have to like has anyone
ever come out of retirement?

Speaker 4 (55:12):
Whatever?

And I'm just laughing it off, like totally thinking it's
a joke. And then I'm driving back over to the
facility and I get a call from Wan and he's like,
where are you And I'm like, uh, yeah, on my way,
like I thought our meeting was later. He's like, I
have to speak to you right away, and I was like,
oh my god, like what happens?

Speaker 4 (55:27):
And so I walk in.

I see Shelby in a thumb splint with her hand
in the air, Ryan in a sling, and I just
look at them and I look at Wan and I'm like,
oh my god. And he says, so we have a situation.
We need you to be available on Sunday. And I
was like, as a player, and you know, the rest

(55:49):
is kind of history. They said, you know, just for
this weekend. You know, we think they'll be okay, but
they're not going to be available for Sunday. So I
think the business side was advertising is one night only.
Slowly that conversation then the following day became oh maybe
you can just be a goalkeeper on the away trip.
And you know, basically I spent the next month being like,
am I a coach or am I a player today?

(56:10):
Eventually I had to relinquish my coaching like duties because
you know, it was league policy you couldn't do both.
So I was, I guess technically fired and a player
living the player's life again. And then a month later,
which was already I think this is the craziest part.
That was supposed to be a day that we were
celebrating my retirement from the year before actually ended up

(56:32):
being a.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
Day I was available to go in the game.

So that was crazy, and that was actually truly Alcolm,
would my last day ever playing. I am really praying
our goalkeepers continue to stay healthy and doing really well.
So yeah, so I went through a little bit of
a transition to a transition, and you know, back now
on the staff side of things, what did that feel
like to be a player again? It was such a whirlwind,

(56:56):
you know, obviously, transitioning out of a fifteen year career.
I was already you know, every day like rethinking all
my routines. I think I said that the last time
we talk, you know, like what do I eat? How
do I work out? You know? And I was finally,
you know, I thought getting the hang of it, you know,
and then all of a sudden, I was like, okay,
I need to revert, Like I remember Wan, so Wan
had that conversation with me.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
I had to go get a physical.

There's a picture I think of me, Ryan and Shelby
in the medical room. They're getting their hands and shoulders
checked out, and I'm getting my physical.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
The doctor asked me, oh, is this your first season?

And I'm like, no, no, no, this is actually my
sixteenth I think now. But then I went home and I,
you know, my head was spinning, like I was trying
to talk to my girlfriend about what happened. I'm like,
I think I need to get recovery. So I like
pull out my old my getting my norma tex. I'm like,
how does somebody all of a sudden get ready in
twenty four hours to play in a professional game. And
so tried to find this combination of taking out my

(57:48):
old habits, you know, so I had to relearn what
I tried to unlearn. It was wild, you know, and
just kind of like this like what am I doing
every day? And you know, in some ways, I was
like still in training, you know, trying to help Anne
or whatever the other goalkeepers are. But then all of
a sudden I get in small side and it was
like the drug hit again, you know, like oh I
gotta win, you know, or like oh no, like you know,
I've had like withdrawals and now I'm in it, and

(58:09):
all of a sudden, I'm like crazy again.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
You know.

I thought I was done with this, so yeah, So
it was really just like I felt like I was
like outside my body observing for most of it. You know,
when I was even talking to our mental performance coach
and I was like, I'm kind of using this as
like an experiment, you know, like everything I'm telling them
like now I'm I'm back in it.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
You know, Like everything I was doing, I.

Was like cognizant in a different way, like I'm asking
Ryan to do this, I'm asking Shelby do this, I'm
asking Ann to do this, so now like I better
do it, you know, like I'm playing, I'm mentally physically
like everything I'm asking of them like I'm now modeling
to them, even how I respond to obviously not being
as good as I want to, because I've been retired
for you know, at least six months or so. So yeah,

(58:50):
it was just honestly such a whirlwind and something I
was observing. And obviously I would like, never ever, ever
wish that our goalkeepers were injured, and I'm like so
grateful they're doing well again. But I think in some
way it was cathartic in terms of just like closure,
you know, Like I was talking to Jalen, I think,
and she was like, it's cool because you know you're
doing it for the last time, you know. When I
was finishing my season last year, I like had in

(59:12):
the back of my mind that I was going to retire,
but it wasn't like I knew, you know.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
I wasn't like, oh, this is.

My last practice ever, this is my last game ever,
you know, And so it was kind of like this
time of like like I remember driving to my retirement
game and being like, okay, like it's done. And I
think the coolest thing for me was like it was
like an old relationship that served me but didn't serve
me anymore.

Speaker 4 (59:32):
Like I was like I loved this, Like I love this.

But I'm done, you know, Like I really am done,
Like I don't need this in the same way, and
just so much like gratitude like for what I was
able to do, and like sometimes it's nostalgic, you know,
like I look at the younger ones, I'm like, oh,
I like I remember being at the you know, the bottom,
just chasing, you know, and like this big dream ahead
of me. And you know, I think it just gave
me this month to like really sit and reflect and

(59:56):
be like what, wow, I did it. You know, I
did it in so many ways. And I didn't reach
every goal or anything like that, but like what a journey.
And I think because I made the transition so quick
from playing to coaching, I never really sat and processed.
And yeah, I'm just like so grateful for that time
now because I was like, yeah, I just got to
do it differently, have hindsight, like be removed from it

(01:00:19):
and be like, yeah, I'm done.

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
You know, I'm done, and I'm so grateful, you know.

Michelle Betos (01:00:23):
And I thought I thought that you would have to
Like I just thought that I would like either stop
loving it one day. And it's not that I don't
love it anymore, it's just that was like an older
version of me and it served me so well and
now like I'm exactly where I'm meant to be, and
I think so, I think it was just such.

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
A cool, cathartic, like reflective time.

Again, not something I would like wish for, but yeah,
really really special in that sense. And then just to
get to celebrate with my family and everybody like that,
and just I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
Know if you were there at it.

I think you were there at the game, but like
all my friends and family that had my jerseys from
throughout all the years, from like rec soccer to every
pro team I ever played, and I remember just standing
there for one second.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
I was standing next to my mom in the field.

And like like holy shit, what a journey, like so
many countries, so many teams, like so many trials, like
so much craziness, like highs that I could like again
like drug you know, like things that like I could
have never imagined and like lows that test to me
like so much. But it was just seriously like it

(01:01:23):
was so cool, you know, and it was just so yeah, it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Was just like amazing.

It was such a cool experience, so a whirlwind and
wild and you know, I don't think for the week
of heart the faint of heart, but uh yeah, really cool.

Emily Tisch Sussman (01:01:36):
Do you think your perspective on coaching now is a
little bit different than you went back for a month?

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
Yeah, I think so.

I think first I have a better appreciation for it.
I already appreciated it, but it was like, I think
one of the saddest things for me retiring was that
I like wouldn't have a team anymore, right, Like I've
I've only ever made friends with your team.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
I still am like, how do adults make friends?

Like my whole life, I've been part of this group
that we're all we all have this in common and
we love to do this, and oh, here's twenty best friends.
Here's twenty people I'm gonna spend my days with, you know.
And when I retired, I think that was the thing
I was gonna mourn the most. And then I think
I realized, like I missed my team when I went
to being a player, Like the staff is my team,

(01:02:17):
you know, like you still have teams in you Like
I missed, you know, the banter in here. I missed
working together for something and of course like I had
it with the players.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
It's different dynamic now.

But yeah, I think it just made me like appreciate
like the new phase of my life.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
I think also, you know, when you're.

Coaching, you're like you're telling people to do something, but
it's so easy to forget how much stress and tens
and whatever. So if I'm saying, hey, Shelby, like just
play that ball there, like it's so easy, then I'm
in her shoes and I'm like, oh, yeah, it's not
that easy because I'm being pressed in stuff, you know,
And I've played long enough to know that. But I
do think it just gives you perspective. I think it
really is just I'm really grateful for the chapter I min.

(01:02:54):
I'm a rookie again in some ways, and I think
that's fun. Like, you know, I think that's the parts
of my career.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
That I get nostalgic about. I was saying, like I
missed the chase.

I me. I miss being at the beginning and having
so much ahead of me and having no idea how
it was all gonna end up, but like, you know,
just forging forward every day however I knew I could.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
And now I'm like at the beginning of.

A new chapter and I don't know where it's gonna go,
you know. I'm doing the culture side of things. I'm
so passionate about that. I'm getting my master's in applied
sports like to do like mental performance, and I'm coaching
goalkeepers that I like, I knew I would like it.
I knew I would really like it. I did know
I would like love it. Like the other day Ryan
made a save in training and I'm like, it is
weird how much joy I have, Like you know, I
was telling her that, like I just love it. I

(01:03:34):
love being part of their journeys, like I love seeing
them grow, I love testing themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
I love helping them go on the journey that I
got to go on.

You know. Of course it's about like what they want
to achieve, but more just like go see what you're
made of, Like you have no idea yet, like Ray,
you have no idea, I shall we have no idea.
And then like watching Anne like a proud mom at
the Euros, like it's like a joy and like just
like a pride that like you don't know when you're
true when you're playing, and it's like knowing these people,

(01:04:01):
seeing what they put in day in, day out, and
you know, trying to play a small part in their journey.
It's so cool to see them succeed and to grow
and learn and overcome adversity.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
So yeah, so I'm just.

Really grateful and I'm you know, I'm a rookie again,
which is fun, makes me feel young again.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
But yeah, it's been it's been really cool.

Well, thank you, Michelle, thanks for coming back.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
On for your rook day. Thank you, thank you for
having me and Willew.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

This is something that I ask of all of our guests,
but what is something that It could be something we discussed,
could be something else, but something that at the time
you thought was a real low point, like a negative,
and now you see it as having really positioned and
launched you to where you are now.

Yeah, I would say every single injury, every time I
didn't play or wasn't starting, every time I was in
a hard position I as a player, like didn't get
what I want. Basically every time as a player to
get what I want, whether it was injury or playing time,
I in those moments, you know, questioned life, question God,

(01:05:09):
questioned to everything you know, like how could this happen
to me? This is awful? And playing for as long
as I've did, I've had a lot of those hard
blow moments. But what I have seen is the ability
for me to empathize and truly understand players is at
a level that I don't think most people will have

(01:05:29):
because I can literally look at every single player. I
can look at every player and a roster and be like,
I have been there too. I have been through this
exact situation, and this is what helped me. This is
how I got out of it, or this is how
I reframed it, or this is how I dealt with it,
or this is how I used it to propel me forward. Like,
I feel pretty confident that there are very few people

(01:05:50):
that I will come across in this role that I'm like, WHOA,
I totally can't like, I'm sorry, but I really can't
understand that. Like, I can just see so clearly that
all of the like hardships and trials and tribulations of
my career have prepared me so well to help others.
And I think no one needs that much help when

(01:06:11):
they're on top of the world, you know, right like
they're they're good. But it's within this career. If you
play long enough, everyone will be benched. Everyone will get injured,
everyone will have a hard time, and I can be
there for them, and I can understand it and I
can know and like, through those times in my career,
the one thing I will say is I always I

(01:06:33):
had my pity parties. I went through it. But I also,
like always like tried to look forward and be like,
who do I want to say I was in this
situation when I didn't play, when I was injured. I
always framed it from like, who do I want to
say I was in a year from now when I
talk to somebody about this, when I look at my
mom and talk to her about it, And so that
is always the advice I give to these people, and

(01:06:55):
like it gives you such a different perspective of like, okay,
like things aren't going my way? Who am I as
a teammate? Who am I as a person? Like am
I resilient? Am I dedicated? Do I find a new
way to get better so I can get on the
field or physically heal or whatever. So I think I
think it's just all those moments, the moments that feel
like the hardest of my career were actually ones that

(01:07:17):
like teed me up perfectly to be doing what I'm
doing now and hopefully do for a long time.

Michelle is continuing to use her incredible experience and outlook
on life as assistant goalkeeper coach for Gotham FC, and
she never stops learning. She's also getting her masters in
sports psychology.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
They just started up.

The second half of the NWSL season, so be sure
to follow at Gotham FC for updates and come to
a match to cheer us on. To keep up with
Michelle and everything she's doing, you can follow her on
Instagram at Michelle Betos.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Talk to you next week.

Thanks for listening to this episode of She Pivots. I
hope you enjoyed it, and if you did, leave us
a rating and tell your friends about. To learn more
about our guests, follow us on Instagram at she Pivots
the Podcast, or sign up for our newsletter where you
can get exclusive behind the scenes content on our website
at she pivots Thepodcast dot com. This episode was produced

(01:08:18):
and edited by Emily Atavelosk, with sound editing and mixing
from Nina Pollock, Audio production and social media by Hannah Cousins,
Research by Christine Dickinson, and logistics and planning by Emma
Stopic and Kendall Krupkin.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
She Pivots is proud to be a part of the
iHeart podcast network.

I endorse she Pivots

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