September 15, 2025 • 34 mins
Marc adjusts to his new life outside the prison walls as an ex-con on parole. With job opportunities scarce and the loan debt still an albatross around his neck, uncertainty consumes him. Though a huge opportunity soon comes from a most loyal friend.
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Mark as Played
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'd received letters from Kathy while I was in shock.
I wrote maybe five or six times. I did receive
a couple letters, But as far as thinking about her,
thought about her all the time. Where was she, who
was she hanging out with? What's she doing bad? One
of the biggest things that I would say to myself
about Kathy was, when I get out, I'm going to
help her.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I knew she was in a bad spot. She was really.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Spiraling out of control. Now I'm feeling great. I haven't
had a drink, i haven't had a drug. Wow, I
feel really good. And to go through that and try
to convince somebody else to feel that way is probably
a tough thing. But man, if I had one person
I want to convince it to, it'd be Kathy.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
From my heart radio in doghouse pictures. This is shock incarceration,
I'm Jeff keating. Regret is a hard pill to swallow,
(01:23):
and Mark certainly struggled with his failure to reach Kathy
in time to help her. There are some disappointments that,
even with the passage of time, cannot be erased.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Kathy overdosed eight days before I got out of prison.
Eleven years July since she passed, all right, I can't
believe it.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Eleven years.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
As Mark processed the news of Kathy's passing, former Shock
inmate Ed Revere dealt with his own emotions. Moments after
just graduating.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
You literally walk out of the gate. You go back
to your barracks. As you leave, and you go to
that same pen where you all started. You put on
your civilian clothes, and also you walk out that door
and there was your drilling structure, and he would shake
your hands, and now you're out in a parking lot
(02:22):
and they're just going, okay, okay, that's behind me.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
For many inmates, graduation is tough as they reunite with
friends and family members they might not have seen since
their courtroom sentencing.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Graduation is tough. It was very emotional. My son was there.
He was about twenty six. You'd never want to see
your father go to prison. But I think it was
years later that he really saw the change. One of
those when you're deep in addiction, the premises they were
made and broke things that have changed. But I think
(03:03):
it was years later where I was still on point.
One of the general rules is you tell the truth
with compassion, and I use that in my own business.
Now with people of the addiction, it's like, hey, we
all fuck up, all of us. So when you make
a mistake, you take accountability. That something else Shock has
taught me. When you take accountability, you typically aren't going
(03:25):
to do it again. So it took a few years
for him to see the true change. I think he's
seen this consistency of me doing the right thing.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Several Shock inmates struggled with alcohol and drug addiction prior
to their arrests. For many, this was the first time
being sober in years. Shockgave new meaning to the words
going cold turkey ed. Was no exception for.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Me not being ashamed of me being an alcoholic, where
I'd go to parties and hey, do you want to drink?
And I'd be like, no, I don't drink. I believe
Shock gave me that cockiness where they go, oh why
because I don't want to drink. I don't need to
explain it. Who are you to question me? If you
don't like my answer, then I'm you. I can reflect
(04:13):
back on times I've missed because of my alcoholism, and
at that's time I can't get back. All I can
do is move forward and do the best I can.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Now a free man, ed Re entered the world he
had left behind and adjusted to his new life outside prison.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
I'll never forget how slow the world moved. Everything moved
at a snail's pace. The shock is quick, quick, quick, quick, quick,
perfect perfect perfect, And coming out I remember stopping at
like Tim Hortons, and I just having an anxiety attack.
Why is this line not moving? What's so difficult? You
(04:54):
walk up there? Order move, order, Move, Order is then
to happen.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Mar sat in his parents' car as they drove towards
his apartments. While Mark was away. Childhood friend and roommate
Matt Woods had been paying the rent on the condo
and looking forward to his return.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I remember coming home that day, just getting off the
exit and seeing how nothing's changed, the same bs, buildings
and businesses. And my mother and stepfather pulled me up
in front of my condo there and walked up the
steps and opened the door, took a look at the place.
It was really cool, just to see my couch, my furniture,
(05:35):
this that. He was in his room already. It was nighttime,
and I said, Matt, you awake. He came out. I said,
I'm absolutely exhausted, but I said, give me a hug.
So he gave me a big hug, and I said,
I know you got some questions. Let's do it tomorrow.
I want to go to bed he's and I did.
I went right in and I went to bed. I
absolutely cried myself to sleep in that bed and just
(05:57):
rehashing everything, trying to take it all in, trying to
think of some of the good times that I actually
did have that, believe it or not. I laughed a
few times in there, thinking of some of the people
I met along the way. Where are they now? Some
of the people from downstate, the people in Ulster, What
are they doing? Man, I'm back home already. I'm back home.
(06:18):
Are they ever going to see it again?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Those are a lot of the things I went through
my head. And then I fell asleep crying.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It had been six months since Mark was led away
from a courtroom in handcuffs. He'd not only survived shock incarceration,
but he'd become a leader amongst his fellow inmates. He
would now wake up in his own bed, in his
own condo, alone and ready to face the world and
an uncertain future.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I remember the next day, it rained like hell.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
But I got up at five thirty and went jogging,
because that's what we did every day.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
You got up at five thirty and you did your
PT and I actually got up and went for a runner.
I did want to try to instill some of those
values in that daily routine.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
From Mark's first arrest to the day he graduated Shock,
there was one friend who always had Mark's back, from
finding a lawyer to paying his bail fees. This man
embodied what it means to be loyal. Rob Kniebel recalls
seeing Mark upon graduating Shock for the very first time.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
It's almost like you're running to to give him the
buddy hug, welcome him out, and you want to keep
things positive. But then you want to know how it
was so small talk, and then you want to get
down to nitty gritty.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Did someone give it to you?
Speaker 6 (07:38):
What?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
And he was skinny, man, I mean to me, he
looked frail and he didn't look good at all. He
was two thirty going in and he came out of
one fifty six, So he came out looking scrawny and
pale and skinny, but he had a smile on's face,
he wrote his mother. Everybody does that. I guess once
(08:00):
nothing bit happens that they write their mommy. But he
was faithful to brighten the family and they wrote back.
But I wasn't the writer.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
In spite of their broken relationship, Mark's ex wife Liz
was happy to show up at a party to welcome
him home.
Speaker 7 (08:14):
He got out and he had a party up at
the condo and I went, and I've got pictures of us.
I stayed in contact. I don't think I saw him often.
I was just happy to see him out. He was
a different person. I don't think we really spoke about
the loans and the debt because I was kind of
just embracing the new Mark in that hopefully he's on
a good path and all this nonsense is behind him.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
As well as offering Mark moral support as he began
a fresh start outside of prison, she also shared a
compassionate view of Mark who he was before shock and
who he is today.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
It's just super unfortunate. It happened to the best guy,
and it was so out of his control, and it
changed him. It changed him not for forever, but he
definitely made him the person that he is today. I
never blamed him, and the only person I really blame
is Dave. And again, he's a loyal person, and he
just the loyalty was not to me. I could not
get between the twins, not that I was trying to,
(09:10):
but I think that's just something I just accepted. But
I can't fault him or take away.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That's what makes Mark Mark is his loyalty.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Mark's older brother Don recalls seeing his baby brother at
a gathering of the entire Lombardo family to celebrate his
release and welcome him back to the free world.
Speaker 8 (09:29):
The first time I saw Mark aftershock was at Dave's house.
Everybody went to Dave's. I remember, I'm walking through the door,
and he was even thinner than he was when I
saw him. Everybody's happy to see Mark, but at the
same time, everybody is just worried about what he's going
to do and how he's going to get his life
back on track. And everybody's thrilled to death, I mean
(09:53):
to tears, happy to see him, and still worried about,
my god, how did you do this? Why did you
do this? Why did you make this mistake? I know
this isn't you, but it's a big mistake. We're psyched
to see you now. How are you going to make
this work?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
As the celebrations faded and his family returned to their lives,
Mark was left alone with his own thoughts and the
second chance of what life would bring. While he was
in shock, he thought about the simple pleasures that most
of us take for granted.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I remember a couple of days thinking what am I
doing when I get out of here that I can't
do here? Q tips was like the biggest thing I
wanted to I couldn't wait to use a cue tip.
Oh my god, my ears. I want a ce tip.
I want to use a fork. I want to be
able to use an actual fork with my food. I
want to shower by myself for fifteen minutes. I don't
(10:53):
want to shower with fourteen guys in three minutes. I
want to shower by myself for twenty minutes. Maybe why
not let the water run?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Who cares?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Mark's mother, Linda, kept all of his letters from shock,
which had a long list of exactly what he planned
to do upon his release.
Speaker 9 (11:09):
This is a list of things that Mark can't wait
to do when he gets out. This is January nineteenth,
twenty thirteen. Eat pasta with a fork. Here you only
have a spoon. Eat a real pizza pie, chicken palm
sandwich from Big MIC's. Hold us currency fresh mutzadel and supersa.
Watch a Yankee game in person, Laugh with family and friends.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Most important on the list.
Speaker 9 (11:34):
Use the bathroom when I want to dunkin donuts, coffee
and busting cream donuts. Get on the Parkway South and
drive to the beach for a day. A nice burger
steak on the grill, I want to cook it. Sleep
in a bed with a mattress, Sleep in a bed
wider than thirty inches, Sleep in a room without other
guys farting and snoring all night.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
When he turned out the lights at night, Mark's reflection
turned from the sublime to deeper thoughts about what was
yet to come.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Quite honestly, my future I didn't really know until I
got out of prison. There was that much going back
and forth. It was like a tennis match, you know.
Do I start to do something now, and does it
make sense to do it? It's obviously going to be
put on hold. Do I change careers? Do I stay
in the automotive field? Do I go a different route?
(12:29):
I honestly had no idea what I was going to
do or where.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I was going to go.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
In all, Mark's fears were not completely unfounded. Nearly three
out of four former inmates remained jobless even a year
after release, a sign that many employers simply won't take
the chance on hiring a convicted felon, and even if
they do find work, it often pays about forty percent
(12:53):
less per year than someone without a record. Former drill
instructor Paul Stack explained that their program offered inmates and
education and trades that might be helpful if and when
they returned to the workforce.
Speaker 10 (13:09):
Some of them don't have high school diplomas. Before they leave,
they would get their ged so it would be classed,
whether it be vocational classes such as building maintenance, floor covering.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Building maintenance.
Speaker 10 (13:19):
They worked with electrical stuff drywall. We have upholstery class,
interior design class, small engines class, and a custodial maintenance class.
Some would go to work lines and rounds. They get
to use heavy equipment. By the time they leave there,
they'll know how to run a landscaping business.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Will Many inmates may have hated their drill instructors at
the time. Everything that they were forced to endure was
by design for Paul Stack. He took pride in knowing
that the true goal of the program was to help
these men and women improve their lives.
Speaker 10 (13:52):
We're giving them so many tools to step out of
graduation and go and actually make something of themselves. And
when I hear that they do was one of was
my guys.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I love hearing.
Speaker 10 (14:02):
I love hearing after graduation. Hey, I have no life
before graduation. This is what I'm doing now, and I'm
doing great. I'm a millionaire or whatever it is, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Back home, Mark Lombardo was now a free man. No
more orders to follow, no one screaming in his space,
no more friendship blogs to carry. He was on his
own and struggling to face the realities of his post
shock future.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I was doubting myself that that I could ever get
back on my feet. And that's scary because you have
a whole life ahead of you. So the doubt was,
I doubt I'm gonna be able to get a decent
job again.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm a felon now.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I doubt anybody's gonna want to take me on and
give me the opportunity. They're gonna see that on a resume,
or you know, to do a background check. I really
doubted that I would ever get back on my feet,
getting ready to get back to reality, being outside those walls,
being back in my condo. Where do I go from here?
(15:19):
Who do I call? Who's gonna give me a shot?
They gave us all information for people that actually hire felons,
they get a tax break. Okay, so do I use
that in my pitch? Well, by the way, do you
want a tax break? We don't even tell these people.
Are you gonna come straight out and tell them or
are you gonna wait for them to ask to do
a background check.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
In the weeks after returning home, Mark began working for
his friend Rob doing odd jobs. It's true that Mark
graduated from shot incarceration, but the state prison system wasn't
quite ready to part ways with prisoner twelve ask forty
nine oh six just yet. There was still a little
matter of parole, and Mark was about to find out
(16:00):
that freedom wasn't quite as free as he had imagined.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
I didn't have to deal with a probation officer. He
couldn't have any alcohol or anything. They'd just bang on
his door in the middle of night, like eleven twelve o'clock.
They'd just pay him a visit. He's like, don't bring
beer over because the probation officer could come by. And
that went on for a long time and he never
had any alcohol or drugs.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
When I was released from prison, they gave me five
years parole. But the rules and regulations are I could
not be out past nine pm. I could not drink,
I could not do any drugs. I could not leave
state lines. I lived right over the border in New York,
and from my house to my mother's house is thirty
five minutes, but I couldn't go because it's going over
state lines. I would call him up and I'd say, hey,
(16:46):
can I get approval? It's my mother's birthday, and he
would say, yep, you have approval. I would have to
go and get a piece of paper and have it
on me, just quick documentation that God forbid if somebody
arrested me, I did have proof that I was allowed.
And I only did that like two times. For the
most part, my family came to me.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Mark continued to work for rob but he was mandated
to check in regularly with disappointed parole officer who had
the authority to show up unannounced at any time and
to check on whether or not Mark was violating the
strict conditions of his parole.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
As you start showing your parole officer that you're doing
the right thing, they could legally buy law check on
you once a month meeting, come to your house. I
lived on a third floor condo and my parole officer
was a heavy set, lazy guy, but he had to
come in. So the first time it was probably the
(17:42):
second month. Knock on the door, eight o'clock, Oprah, as
my parle officer, how Hi, how are you sir? Please
come in? He came in checking and make sure I'm home.
He could have me do a pistas if he wanted to,
on the spot, just to check for a drugs and alcohol,
which he never had me do at the house. When
I went to parole, I would have to pee. Then
I did that monthly.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Mark was determined to keep on the straight and narrow.
He did everything by the book certain to show his
parole officer that he was a changed man and that
the lessons he learned at shock were not wasted on him.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And quite honestly, it was because I was able to
get that job which I still have now to tire
the shreet. I was showing up every month and bringing
my paste hubs. I was making more than he was.
He kept saying to me, you're doing good, kid. You're
not going to be on parole much longer. Don't fuck up.
And I said, thank you, thank you. I appreciate that.
And it was exactly two years to today he said
(18:34):
we're going to let you go.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I had a.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Feeling it was going to happen, maybe three years, not
two years. I was very shocked that they let me
go that early, but I was also a blessed and
I was thankful, and I told him, you won't ever
have a problem looking back and saying shit, I made
the wrong decision here, I said, I won't let that
happen to you. There's actually documentation that I was provided
letting me know that I've been released from parole in
(18:58):
the state of New York, and.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Watch yourself.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Though twelve years have passed, the memories of his cocaine
infused days and nights are still fresh in his memory.
To hear Mark tell it, it was not a lifestyle
for the feint of heart. Mark the shock graduate is
never too far from the paranoid days and sleepless nights
of Mark the coke dealer.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
It's a vicious cycle. It's a cycle that doesn't end
until you, unfortunately, get to the bottom. It was a
lifesaver that I hit rock bottom. Sometimes I'm happy that
I didn't have that meeting with the prosecutor and didn't
get out of it.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I'm happy I went to jail.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
There's an inevitability that if you get into that lifestyle
and mess around with cocaine or any drugs, it will
catch up to you and ultimately you will get caught
or put in a bad place.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Rob kaniebel knew that Mark needed a job. Mark was
willing to do whatever work Rob could throw his way.
It wasn't glamorous, but it was work, good, honest work,
and having a job any job felt good. Their partnership
in a successful Italian restaurant would come later, but at
the moment, Rob was the guardian angel. Mark needed to
(20:13):
get a leg up.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
When I got out, I had nothing, I had nothing zero,
and once again he was there for me. Hey, I
can get you involved, like I got some painting. He
owns multiple buildings and he's always got projects going, and
he had houses that he was working on not only
his own projects. But bottom line is he had enough
work to pay me. I said, whatever it is, I
(20:35):
gave him a job. At that point, he's convicted felon.
He's on the balls of his ass. So he thought
of a painting with my son, Rob Jr. And so
he was still walk to a certain extent, happy go lucky.
But there was no more dabbling in drugs.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He'll have beers and he's a wine guy. Now there
was another gentleman. You know, it's a very successful restaurant.
He's been in business about twenty years. Young kid put
his time in and Rob and I were going to
his restaurant. Rob had a restaurant in his building, but
he and that client or tenant weren't seeing eye to eye.
So Rob he don't give a fuck about anything. I'll
go put a dead bolt.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
On the do it. I don't give a shit. And
it's pretty much what he did.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
He put a lock on the front door and said,
just jokingly, hey, why don't we do something? Why can't
we do it? And I had a full time job,
which was just kind of at the time moving into
full swing. I have to admit, I have always wanted
to have a restaurant, a bar something. I think it's
just a really cool atmosphere and engaging with customers and
just everything about it. And of course, at the end
(21:34):
of the day, you want to make money doing it too.
Why wouldn't I party with him? The guy owns half
of the fucking town. He knows everybody in town. I
treat Monk as an equals. We split stop at fifty fifty. Ultimately,
at the end of the day, right now, we have
what's known as a fucking hotspot in our town. It
is the talk of the town. It is the best
restaurant in town, and people are loving it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Mark is not the only person who recognizes the impact
that Rob had on Mark's re entry into society. For
many convicted felons, finding a good paying job can be
an insurmountable hurdle. Rob's loyalty, support and friendship is not
lost on Mark's older brother, Don Rob Knebel.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
I don't know where Mark would be right now if
Rob hadn't trusted him with friendship and responsibility. Rob is
the hell of a guy. He's got a lot of influence.
He's a very successful guy. And he trusts Mark trusts him.
(22:35):
They work really well together. I'd love that that guy's
in Mark's life because Mark now has achieved a certain success.
Mark's back and he got himself there. He did it.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Everything got better.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Much has occurred from the first day twelve years ago
that Mark's twin brother, Dave asked if he could co
sign alone for fifty thousand dollars to help his brother
out of a jail. The twin brothers see each other
at family gatherings, but there's an elephant in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
He's not paying anybody, and it's very frustrating. Nobody is
too thrilled with him that I can assure you. But
we still get together. We still pop in for the
kid's birthdays or well barbecue. It's a little awkward, to
say the least, but we still try to be a family.
At the end of the day, you try. But after
(23:47):
this last one, I'll tell you what it's going to
be tough. I think he knows. It's a legit concern
on my end right now when people ask me how
am I still in contact with Dave after everything that
we've gone through with the fraud and the law and
the debt, and the credit destroying my credit?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I have to be honest. I don't have the answer.
I don't. Is it cliche? Life's too short?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
You only live here a certain amount of time, and
your family's the only thing that you have. Maybe that's
in the back.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Of my head.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Multiple people have told me you need to get an attorney.
You need to fucking get somebody on your side. That's
gonna cost me more money, too, right, You can look
at it so many different ways. Do I want to
go through this? Do I want the hassle?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Mark's partner Rob Kniebel, has a less forgiving attitude towards
his brother Dave.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Never liked Dave.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
He's complete opposite of him.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
I told him about Dave a million times from what
he did for me, it's over. Okay, fuck me once
and it's over. I'm all in. I'm all out. That's
how I am and who I am. And he's not.
He's still hanging on to the guy inviting him to
this debt. I don't care if your family or not.
Your brother should have been in the pokey instead of him.
I've asked him, what the fuck you're doing. You gotta
(25:00):
have boundaries in your life and If you don't have boundaries,
you don't have anything. He lets people walk all over
them and then I'm always picking him up and repairing him.
But he's a big boy, but got a stupid brain.
Lets his brain control his hot.
Speaker 8 (25:15):
I can't believe what happened between Mark and Dave. It
affects everything. It affects marriages, it affects relationships. The last
thing I need is somebody in my family not talking
to somebody else, and when it happens, it makes me crazy.
As the time went by, I started finding more and
(25:37):
more out about Mark and Dave's financial relationship, and it
makes me feel like I failed the both of them
because I didn't talk to them about it. I'm older
than them. I should have given them a lot more advice.
I wish I could have helped them a lot more.
I could have helped the both of them to make
a better situation for them a long time ago, and
(26:00):
make sure that Dave didn't get himself in trouble, which
was the spark that caused all of this. Dave getting
himself in trouble and Mark making a really bad decision
trying to make the best of it. That's where we
are right now, and.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I know there's people out there probably lacking, like what
are you doing? Clear your name, get this off your record.
Yeah I want it, I do, but I'm not going
to take the time. I didn't put myself in that position.
Do I want to get myself out of it, Yes,
but he's got to do it. I'm not doing it.
I don't know if that makes sense. I think it's
because I know for a fact I am not on
(26:36):
the hook for that money. He used my Social Security,
he took out loans, he took out credit cards, he
maxed them out. I'm not paying a dime. So it's
really not something that's choking me physically, but it's choking
me as from a credit standpoint. Is that worth going
(26:58):
through all that hassle?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I don't know. I think if.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Anything right, when you put up against the wall, you
got you gotta fight back. So at that point, yes, yes,
if that's going to be the driving force to get
me to do it, then ultimately I would have to
do it. And I think until I'm actually in that
position where I don't have a choice, that's probably when
I'll get involved. Until then, I have bigger and better
(27:23):
things to worry about. Other priorities. I'm sure everybody in
this room maybe has a story or a family member
that did it to somebody else, and there's bad blood.
They butt heads, they don't talk. I don't know if
it's it's to that point yet, but it's getting there.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
It is getting there.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Mark's relationship with his twin brother Dave is it best
complicated And for Mark, the financial losses are only one
part of the story.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I had an event at the restaurant Pizza with Sanna,
and I text them about it and I said, you know,
it would be great, you know, for the kids to
come up.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Now.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Two of them are old enough where they don't believe,
but the youngest one un does she's only three, and
he showed and it was great. It was a great
moment for me to be able to have my little
niece there.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It was actually a touching moment for me, It really was.
And she had such a great time, and I miss that.
I missed that with my brother. But I can't see
those types of events happening that often, you know, until
we're where we need to be, and we're not.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Many inmates from shock incarceration described the experience as either
life changing or mentally scarring, with little middle ground. But
to hear Mark Lombardo tell it, shock, without a doubt,
altered the trajectory of his life dealing drugs.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I think it was a blessing that I got caught.
I think it was a blessing that I was made
an example and that I was sentenced to prison and
I had to do my term.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I really do.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I feel with my personality and addictive personality, it could
have led to other things. It could have led to
stupider decisions. I think, without a doubt it would have
ended poorly regardless, and by maybe it happening so quickly,
it could have been the best thing that's ever happened
to me. So now you got to turn a positive
(29:16):
into it and move on.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
As soon as he got out, I was with him
and asking them how was it, and again he talked
about it in a positive way. I do believe that
some people would go and experience something like that and
come out and never change, and they just did it
to cut down a time. I think he did take
that opportunity to reflect and to realize that that was
(29:38):
not the way to go.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
This is twelve years now, it's twelve years since it happened,
and I think about it a lot. I have had
many dreams about Shock since being released. I guess probably
five or six, maybe seven dreams specifically relating to Shock,
all of in which I went back. It's funny because
(30:03):
every dream that I've had has been completely different than
the next. It's a different looking location, it's a different
group of people, different drill instructors. So it's very strange.
I wake up every time from those dreams and I say,
oh my god, thank God, that was just a dream,
and that wouldn't be a dream, that would be a nightmare.
(30:24):
And that's why when I reflect back on it, I
understand what that program's about. I understand it, and so
many people that I know or don't know could clearly
benefit from going through that program. It did wake me up.
It did make me realize, what the fuck are you doing?
It is a mental mind fuck program. And remember I
wrote a letter to my mother and I said, Mom,
(30:45):
I understand this. Don't worry about me. I know how
to get through this. Half the other people didn't, and
we lost them. We lost those people and they got
sent out and they had to go do their full time.
It's helped me redefine who I am. And at the
end of the day, I'm very proud to say that
I turned out to be all right. This program that
(31:06):
I went through, thirty three percent of people don't make
it through. I think there's a sixty two or sixty
three percent chance that they go back to prison because
they get it caught again. I'm happy I'm one of
the lucky guys. And if it's a feel good story,
or if it's something to maybe put a positive spin
on somebody else's life, then that's the time to say it.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Mark shared the raw details of his drug dealing days
that most people would probably have taken to the grave,
but he was worried about divulging some aspects of his story.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I definitely want to tell the real story. I want
to tell what happened. It is putting myself on the line.
I've always been a cut and dry, black and white
kind of guy. I'm not beat around the bush. I
will tell you what's on my mind. And I do
want to tell this story. Like I said, it's been
twelve years. I've always envisioned it and I will tell
it with the most honest way that I can tell it.
(32:01):
There are a few names that I will not mention,
people that are still in the lifestyle, people that I
still communicate with at times.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Mark's friend and partner, Rob Knebel, was certainly instrumental in
helping Mark get back on his feet after graduating from shock.
But Rob is not someone who will take the credit
for Mark's success. Rob doesn't see it that way.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
Mark is a very peaceable, loving kind guy to his
own fault and himself. You've got to give him a
lot of credit too, because at the end of the day,
when he goes to bet, he's in bed by himself
and he's looking at the ceiling by himself. He got
to buckle up but a cup and do the right thing.
And a lot of guys don't have it in him
to actually do that, even when help is offered to them.
(32:45):
And because of his heart and his mind and his family,
he did it. And he gets, hey, oh my buddy
Rob helped me out, or my mother wrote me a
letter or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But he did it himself.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
Bottom line is he did it, and I'm very very
happy for him, and I will be for the rest
of my life.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I know that there is a part of it that
it could backfire, maybe because of my career or the
restaurant that I own, But I'm willing to take that
chance because it has been a passion of mine to
not so much tell my story but honestly have it
be a feel good story, if it could be a
positive spin on somebody's life. I'm a proven statistic that, yes,
(33:24):
you can fuck up, you can go through bad times,
you can hit rock bottom, but if you do what's right,
you can get through it, and you can succeed and
hopefully go on and have a happy, successful life and living.
Speaker 11 (33:44):
Shock Incarceration is a joint production from iHeartRadio and Doghouse Pictures,
produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Mark Lombardo,
Tommy James, Noel.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Brown, and Jeff Keating.
Speaker 11 (33:56):
Written by Jim Roberts, Tommy James, Chris Rigatzo and Jeff Keating.
Story edited by Jim Roberts, Edit mix and sound design
by Lane Krauss from Herd's Creek Productions. Music composed by
Diamond Street Productions. Accompanied by Tyler Greenwell, Danny Wattanas, Sean
Thompson and Spencer Garne. Special thanks to Trinity Investigative Group
(34:16):
and Mark Lombardo's family and friends who contributed to the
podcast
I'd received letters from Kathy while I was in shock.
I wrote maybe five or six times. I did receive
a couple letters, But as far as thinking about her,
thought about her all the time. Where was she, who
was she hanging out with? What's she doing bad? One
of the biggest things that I would say to myself
about Kathy was, when I get out, I'm going to
help her.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I knew she was in a bad spot. She was really.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Spiraling out of control. Now I'm feeling great. I haven't
had a drink, i haven't had a drug. Wow, I
feel really good. And to go through that and try
to convince somebody else to feel that way is probably
a tough thing. But man, if I had one person
I want to convince it to, it'd be Kathy.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
From my heart radio in doghouse pictures. This is shock incarceration,
I'm Jeff keating. Regret is a hard pill to swallow,
(01:23):
and Mark certainly struggled with his failure to reach Kathy
in time to help her. There are some disappointments that,
even with the passage of time, cannot be erased.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Kathy overdosed eight days before I got out of prison.
Eleven years July since she passed, all right, I can't
believe it.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Eleven years.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
As Mark processed the news of Kathy's passing, former Shock
inmate Ed Revere dealt with his own emotions. Moments after
just graduating.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
You literally walk out of the gate. You go back
to your barracks. As you leave, and you go to
that same pen where you all started. You put on
your civilian clothes, and also you walk out that door
and there was your drilling structure, and he would shake
your hands, and now you're out in a parking lot
(02:22):
and they're just going, okay, okay, that's behind me.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
For many inmates, graduation is tough as they reunite with
friends and family members they might not have seen since
their courtroom sentencing.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
Graduation is tough. It was very emotional. My son was there.
He was about twenty six. You'd never want to see
your father go to prison. But I think it was
years later that he really saw the change. One of
those when you're deep in addiction, the premises they were
made and broke things that have changed. But I think
(03:03):
it was years later where I was still on point.
One of the general rules is you tell the truth
with compassion, and I use that in my own business.
Now with people of the addiction, it's like, hey, we
all fuck up, all of us. So when you make
a mistake, you take accountability. That something else Shock has
taught me. When you take accountability, you typically aren't going
(03:25):
to do it again. So it took a few years
for him to see the true change. I think he's
seen this consistency of me doing the right thing.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Several Shock inmates struggled with alcohol and drug addiction prior
to their arrests. For many, this was the first time
being sober in years. Shockgave new meaning to the words
going cold turkey ed. Was no exception for.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Me not being ashamed of me being an alcoholic, where
I'd go to parties and hey, do you want to drink?
And I'd be like, no, I don't drink. I believe
Shock gave me that cockiness where they go, oh why
because I don't want to drink. I don't need to
explain it. Who are you to question me? If you
don't like my answer, then I'm you. I can reflect
(04:13):
back on times I've missed because of my alcoholism, and
at that's time I can't get back. All I can
do is move forward and do the best I can.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Now a free man, ed Re entered the world he
had left behind and adjusted to his new life outside prison.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
I'll never forget how slow the world moved. Everything moved
at a snail's pace. The shock is quick, quick, quick, quick, quick,
perfect perfect perfect, And coming out I remember stopping at
like Tim Hortons, and I just having an anxiety attack.
Why is this line not moving? What's so difficult? You
(04:54):
walk up there? Order move, order, Move, Order is then
to happen.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Mar sat in his parents' car as they drove towards
his apartments. While Mark was away. Childhood friend and roommate
Matt Woods had been paying the rent on the condo
and looking forward to his return.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I remember coming home that day, just getting off the
exit and seeing how nothing's changed, the same bs, buildings
and businesses. And my mother and stepfather pulled me up
in front of my condo there and walked up the
steps and opened the door, took a look at the place.
It was really cool, just to see my couch, my furniture,
(05:35):
this that. He was in his room already. It was nighttime,
and I said, Matt, you awake. He came out. I said,
I'm absolutely exhausted, but I said, give me a hug.
So he gave me a big hug, and I said,
I know you got some questions. Let's do it tomorrow.
I want to go to bed he's and I did.
I went right in and I went to bed. I
absolutely cried myself to sleep in that bed and just
(05:57):
rehashing everything, trying to take it all in, trying to
think of some of the good times that I actually
did have that, believe it or not. I laughed a
few times in there, thinking of some of the people
I met along the way. Where are they now? Some
of the people from downstate, the people in Ulster, What
are they doing? Man, I'm back home already. I'm back home.
(06:18):
Are they ever going to see it again?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Those are a lot of the things I went through
my head. And then I fell asleep crying.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
It had been six months since Mark was led away
from a courtroom in handcuffs. He'd not only survived shock incarceration,
but he'd become a leader amongst his fellow inmates. He
would now wake up in his own bed, in his
own condo, alone and ready to face the world and
an uncertain future.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I remember the next day, it rained like hell.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
But I got up at five thirty and went jogging,
because that's what we did every day.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It didn't matter.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
You got up at five thirty and you did your
PT and I actually got up and went for a runner.
I did want to try to instill some of those
values in that daily routine.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
From Mark's first arrest to the day he graduated Shock,
there was one friend who always had Mark's back, from
finding a lawyer to paying his bail fees. This man
embodied what it means to be loyal. Rob Kniebel recalls
seeing Mark upon graduating Shock for the very first time.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
It's almost like you're running to to give him the
buddy hug, welcome him out, and you want to keep
things positive. But then you want to know how it
was so small talk, and then you want to get
down to nitty gritty.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Did someone give it to you?
Speaker 6 (07:38):
What?
Speaker 5 (07:40):
And he was skinny, man, I mean to me, he
looked frail and he didn't look good at all. He
was two thirty going in and he came out of
one fifty six, So he came out looking scrawny and
pale and skinny, but he had a smile on's face,
he wrote his mother. Everybody does that. I guess once
(08:00):
nothing bit happens that they write their mommy. But he
was faithful to brighten the family and they wrote back.
But I wasn't the writer.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
In spite of their broken relationship, Mark's ex wife Liz
was happy to show up at a party to welcome
him home.
Speaker 7 (08:14):
He got out and he had a party up at
the condo and I went, and I've got pictures of us.
I stayed in contact. I don't think I saw him often.
I was just happy to see him out. He was
a different person. I don't think we really spoke about
the loans and the debt because I was kind of
just embracing the new Mark in that hopefully he's on
a good path and all this nonsense is behind him.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
As well as offering Mark moral support as he began
a fresh start outside of prison, she also shared a
compassionate view of Mark who he was before shock and
who he is today.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
It's just super unfortunate. It happened to the best guy,
and it was so out of his control, and it
changed him. It changed him not for forever, but he
definitely made him the person that he is today. I
never blamed him, and the only person I really blame
is Dave. And again, he's a loyal person, and he
just the loyalty was not to me. I could not
get between the twins, not that I was trying to,
(09:10):
but I think that's just something I just accepted. But
I can't fault him or take away.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That's what makes Mark Mark is his loyalty.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Mark's older brother Don recalls seeing his baby brother at
a gathering of the entire Lombardo family to celebrate his
release and welcome him back to the free world.
Speaker 8 (09:29):
The first time I saw Mark aftershock was at Dave's house.
Everybody went to Dave's. I remember, I'm walking through the door,
and he was even thinner than he was when I
saw him. Everybody's happy to see Mark, but at the
same time, everybody is just worried about what he's going
to do and how he's going to get his life
back on track. And everybody's thrilled to death, I mean
(09:53):
to tears, happy to see him, and still worried about,
my god, how did you do this? Why did you
do this? Why did you make this mistake? I know
this isn't you, but it's a big mistake. We're psyched
to see you now. How are you going to make
this work?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
As the celebrations faded and his family returned to their lives,
Mark was left alone with his own thoughts and the
second chance of what life would bring. While he was
in shock, he thought about the simple pleasures that most
of us take for granted.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I remember a couple of days thinking what am I
doing when I get out of here that I can't
do here? Q tips was like the biggest thing I
wanted to I couldn't wait to use a cue tip.
Oh my god, my ears. I want a ce tip.
I want to use a fork. I want to be
able to use an actual fork with my food. I
want to shower by myself for fifteen minutes. I don't
(10:53):
want to shower with fourteen guys in three minutes. I
want to shower by myself for twenty minutes. Maybe why
not let the water run?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Who cares?
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Mark's mother, Linda, kept all of his letters from shock,
which had a long list of exactly what he planned
to do upon his release.
Speaker 9 (11:09):
This is a list of things that Mark can't wait
to do when he gets out. This is January nineteenth,
twenty thirteen. Eat pasta with a fork. Here you only
have a spoon. Eat a real pizza pie, chicken palm
sandwich from Big MIC's. Hold us currency fresh mutzadel and supersa.
Watch a Yankee game in person, Laugh with family and friends.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Most important on the list.
Speaker 9 (11:34):
Use the bathroom when I want to dunkin donuts, coffee
and busting cream donuts. Get on the Parkway South and
drive to the beach for a day. A nice burger
steak on the grill, I want to cook it. Sleep
in a bed with a mattress, Sleep in a bed
wider than thirty inches, Sleep in a room without other
guys farting and snoring all night.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
When he turned out the lights at night, Mark's reflection
turned from the sublime to deeper thoughts about what was
yet to come.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Quite honestly, my future I didn't really know until I
got out of prison. There was that much going back
and forth. It was like a tennis match, you know.
Do I start to do something now, and does it
make sense to do it? It's obviously going to be
put on hold. Do I change careers? Do I stay
in the automotive field? Do I go a different route?
(12:29):
I honestly had no idea what I was going to
do or where.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I was going to go.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
In all, Mark's fears were not completely unfounded. Nearly three
out of four former inmates remained jobless even a year
after release, a sign that many employers simply won't take
the chance on hiring a convicted felon, and even if
they do find work, it often pays about forty percent
(12:53):
less per year than someone without a record. Former drill
instructor Paul Stack explained that their program offered inmates and
education and trades that might be helpful if and when
they returned to the workforce.
Speaker 10 (13:09):
Some of them don't have high school diplomas. Before they leave,
they would get their ged so it would be classed,
whether it be vocational classes such as building maintenance, floor covering.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Building maintenance.
Speaker 10 (13:19):
They worked with electrical stuff drywall. We have upholstery class,
interior design class, small engines class, and a custodial maintenance class.
Some would go to work lines and rounds. They get
to use heavy equipment. By the time they leave there,
they'll know how to run a landscaping business.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Will Many inmates may have hated their drill instructors at
the time. Everything that they were forced to endure was
by design for Paul Stack. He took pride in knowing
that the true goal of the program was to help
these men and women improve their lives.
Speaker 10 (13:52):
We're giving them so many tools to step out of
graduation and go and actually make something of themselves. And
when I hear that they do was one of was
my guys.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I love hearing.
Speaker 10 (14:02):
I love hearing after graduation. Hey, I have no life
before graduation. This is what I'm doing now, and I'm
doing great. I'm a millionaire or whatever it is, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Back home, Mark Lombardo was now a free man. No
more orders to follow, no one screaming in his space,
no more friendship blogs to carry. He was on his
own and struggling to face the realities of his post
shock future.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I was doubting myself that that I could ever get
back on my feet. And that's scary because you have
a whole life ahead of you. So the doubt was,
I doubt I'm gonna be able to get a decent
job again.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm a felon now.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I doubt anybody's gonna want to take me on and
give me the opportunity. They're gonna see that on a resume,
or you know, to do a background check. I really
doubted that I would ever get back on my feet,
getting ready to get back to reality, being outside those walls,
being back in my condo. Where do I go from here?
(15:19):
Who do I call? Who's gonna give me a shot?
They gave us all information for people that actually hire felons,
they get a tax break. Okay, so do I use
that in my pitch? Well, by the way, do you
want a tax break? We don't even tell these people.
Are you gonna come straight out and tell them or
are you gonna wait for them to ask to do
a background check.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
In the weeks after returning home, Mark began working for
his friend Rob doing odd jobs. It's true that Mark
graduated from shot incarceration, but the state prison system wasn't
quite ready to part ways with prisoner twelve ask forty
nine oh six just yet. There was still a little
matter of parole, and Mark was about to find out
(16:00):
that freedom wasn't quite as free as he had imagined.
Speaker 5 (16:04):
I didn't have to deal with a probation officer. He
couldn't have any alcohol or anything. They'd just bang on
his door in the middle of night, like eleven twelve o'clock.
They'd just pay him a visit. He's like, don't bring
beer over because the probation officer could come by. And
that went on for a long time and he never
had any alcohol or drugs.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
When I was released from prison, they gave me five
years parole. But the rules and regulations are I could
not be out past nine pm. I could not drink,
I could not do any drugs. I could not leave
state lines. I lived right over the border in New York,
and from my house to my mother's house is thirty
five minutes, but I couldn't go because it's going over
state lines. I would call him up and I'd say, hey,
(16:46):
can I get approval? It's my mother's birthday, and he
would say, yep, you have approval. I would have to
go and get a piece of paper and have it
on me, just quick documentation that God forbid if somebody
arrested me, I did have proof that I was allowed.
And I only did that like two times. For the
most part, my family came to me.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Mark continued to work for rob but he was mandated
to check in regularly with disappointed parole officer who had
the authority to show up unannounced at any time and
to check on whether or not Mark was violating the
strict conditions of his parole.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
As you start showing your parole officer that you're doing
the right thing, they could legally buy law check on
you once a month meeting, come to your house. I
lived on a third floor condo and my parole officer
was a heavy set, lazy guy, but he had to
come in. So the first time it was probably the
(17:42):
second month. Knock on the door, eight o'clock, Oprah, as
my parle officer, how Hi, how are you sir? Please
come in? He came in checking and make sure I'm home.
He could have me do a pistas if he wanted to,
on the spot, just to check for a drugs and alcohol,
which he never had me do at the house. When
I went to parole, I would have to pee. Then
I did that monthly.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Mark was determined to keep on the straight and narrow.
He did everything by the book certain to show his
parole officer that he was a changed man and that
the lessons he learned at shock were not wasted on him.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
And quite honestly, it was because I was able to
get that job which I still have now to tire
the shreet. I was showing up every month and bringing
my paste hubs. I was making more than he was.
He kept saying to me, you're doing good, kid. You're
not going to be on parole much longer. Don't fuck up.
And I said, thank you, thank you. I appreciate that.
And it was exactly two years to today he said
(18:34):
we're going to let you go.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I had a.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Feeling it was going to happen, maybe three years, not
two years. I was very shocked that they let me
go that early, but I was also a blessed and
I was thankful, and I told him, you won't ever
have a problem looking back and saying shit, I made
the wrong decision here, I said, I won't let that
happen to you. There's actually documentation that I was provided
letting me know that I've been released from parole in
(18:58):
the state of New York, and.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Watch yourself.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Though twelve years have passed, the memories of his cocaine
infused days and nights are still fresh in his memory.
To hear Mark tell it, it was not a lifestyle
for the feint of heart. Mark the shock graduate is
never too far from the paranoid days and sleepless nights
of Mark the coke dealer.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
It's a vicious cycle. It's a cycle that doesn't end
until you, unfortunately, get to the bottom. It was a
lifesaver that I hit rock bottom. Sometimes I'm happy that
I didn't have that meeting with the prosecutor and didn't
get out of it.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I'm happy I went to jail.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
There's an inevitability that if you get into that lifestyle
and mess around with cocaine or any drugs, it will
catch up to you and ultimately you will get caught
or put in a bad place.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Rob kaniebel knew that Mark needed a job. Mark was
willing to do whatever work Rob could throw his way.
It wasn't glamorous, but it was work, good, honest work,
and having a job any job felt good. Their partnership
in a successful Italian restaurant would come later, but at
the moment, Rob was the guardian angel. Mark needed to
(20:13):
get a leg up.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
When I got out, I had nothing, I had nothing zero,
and once again he was there for me. Hey, I
can get you involved, like I got some painting. He
owns multiple buildings and he's always got projects going, and
he had houses that he was working on not only
his own projects. But bottom line is he had enough
work to pay me. I said, whatever it is, I
(20:35):
gave him a job. At that point, he's convicted felon.
He's on the balls of his ass. So he thought
of a painting with my son, Rob Jr. And so
he was still walk to a certain extent, happy go lucky.
But there was no more dabbling in drugs.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
He'll have beers and he's a wine guy. Now there
was another gentleman. You know, it's a very successful restaurant.
He's been in business about twenty years. Young kid put
his time in and Rob and I were going to
his restaurant. Rob had a restaurant in his building, but
he and that client or tenant weren't seeing eye to eye.
So Rob he don't give a fuck about anything. I'll
go put a dead bolt.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
On the do it. I don't give a shit. And
it's pretty much what he did.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
He put a lock on the front door and said,
just jokingly, hey, why don't we do something? Why can't
we do it? And I had a full time job,
which was just kind of at the time moving into
full swing. I have to admit, I have always wanted
to have a restaurant, a bar something. I think it's
just a really cool atmosphere and engaging with customers and
just everything about it. And of course, at the end
(21:34):
of the day, you want to make money doing it too.
Why wouldn't I party with him? The guy owns half
of the fucking town. He knows everybody in town. I
treat Monk as an equals. We split stop at fifty fifty. Ultimately,
at the end of the day, right now, we have
what's known as a fucking hotspot in our town. It
is the talk of the town. It is the best
restaurant in town, and people are loving it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Mark is not the only person who recognizes the impact
that Rob had on Mark's re entry into society. For
many convicted felons, finding a good paying job can be
an insurmountable hurdle. Rob's loyalty, support and friendship is not
lost on Mark's older brother, Don Rob Knebel.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
I don't know where Mark would be right now if
Rob hadn't trusted him with friendship and responsibility. Rob is
the hell of a guy. He's got a lot of influence.
He's a very successful guy. And he trusts Mark trusts him.
(22:35):
They work really well together. I'd love that that guy's
in Mark's life because Mark now has achieved a certain success.
Mark's back and he got himself there. He did it.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Everything got better.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Much has occurred from the first day twelve years ago
that Mark's twin brother, Dave asked if he could co
sign alone for fifty thousand dollars to help his brother
out of a jail. The twin brothers see each other
at family gatherings, but there's an elephant in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
He's not paying anybody, and it's very frustrating. Nobody is
too thrilled with him that I can assure you. But
we still get together. We still pop in for the
kid's birthdays or well barbecue. It's a little awkward, to
say the least, but we still try to be a family.
At the end of the day, you try. But after
(23:47):
this last one, I'll tell you what it's going to
be tough. I think he knows. It's a legit concern
on my end right now when people ask me how
am I still in contact with Dave after everything that
we've gone through with the fraud and the law and
the debt, and the credit destroying my credit?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I have to be honest. I don't have the answer.
I don't. Is it cliche? Life's too short?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
You only live here a certain amount of time, and
your family's the only thing that you have. Maybe that's
in the back.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Of my head.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Multiple people have told me you need to get an attorney.
You need to fucking get somebody on your side. That's
gonna cost me more money, too, right, You can look
at it so many different ways. Do I want to
go through this? Do I want the hassle?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Mark's partner Rob Kniebel, has a less forgiving attitude towards
his brother Dave.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Never liked Dave.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
He's complete opposite of him.
Speaker 5 (24:38):
I told him about Dave a million times from what
he did for me, it's over. Okay, fuck me once
and it's over. I'm all in. I'm all out. That's
how I am and who I am. And he's not.
He's still hanging on to the guy inviting him to
this debt. I don't care if your family or not.
Your brother should have been in the pokey instead of him.
I've asked him, what the fuck you're doing. You gotta
(25:00):
have boundaries in your life and If you don't have boundaries,
you don't have anything. He lets people walk all over
them and then I'm always picking him up and repairing him.
But he's a big boy, but got a stupid brain.
Lets his brain control his hot.
Speaker 8 (25:15):
I can't believe what happened between Mark and Dave. It
affects everything. It affects marriages, it affects relationships. The last
thing I need is somebody in my family not talking
to somebody else, and when it happens, it makes me crazy.
As the time went by, I started finding more and
(25:37):
more out about Mark and Dave's financial relationship, and it
makes me feel like I failed the both of them
because I didn't talk to them about it. I'm older
than them. I should have given them a lot more advice.
I wish I could have helped them a lot more.
I could have helped the both of them to make
a better situation for them a long time ago, and
(26:00):
make sure that Dave didn't get himself in trouble, which
was the spark that caused all of this. Dave getting
himself in trouble and Mark making a really bad decision
trying to make the best of it. That's where we
are right now, and.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I know there's people out there probably lacking, like what
are you doing? Clear your name, get this off your record.
Yeah I want it, I do, but I'm not going
to take the time. I didn't put myself in that position.
Do I want to get myself out of it, Yes,
but he's got to do it. I'm not doing it.
I don't know if that makes sense. I think it's
because I know for a fact I am not on
(26:36):
the hook for that money. He used my Social Security,
he took out loans, he took out credit cards, he
maxed them out. I'm not paying a dime. So it's
really not something that's choking me physically, but it's choking
me as from a credit standpoint. Is that worth going
(26:58):
through all that hassle?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I don't know. I think if.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Anything right, when you put up against the wall, you
got you gotta fight back. So at that point, yes, yes,
if that's going to be the driving force to get
me to do it, then ultimately I would have to
do it. And I think until I'm actually in that
position where I don't have a choice, that's probably when
I'll get involved. Until then, I have bigger and better
(27:23):
things to worry about. Other priorities. I'm sure everybody in
this room maybe has a story or a family member
that did it to somebody else, and there's bad blood.
They butt heads, they don't talk. I don't know if
it's it's to that point yet, but it's getting there.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
It is getting there.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Mark's relationship with his twin brother Dave is it best
complicated And for Mark, the financial losses are only one
part of the story.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I had an event at the restaurant Pizza with Sanna,
and I text them about it and I said, you know,
it would be great, you know, for the kids to
come up.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Now.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Two of them are old enough where they don't believe,
but the youngest one un does she's only three, and
he showed and it was great. It was a great
moment for me to be able to have my little
niece there.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It was actually a touching moment for me, It really was.
And she had such a great time, and I miss that.
I missed that with my brother. But I can't see
those types of events happening that often, you know, until
we're where we need to be, and we're not.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Many inmates from shock incarceration described the experience as either
life changing or mentally scarring, with little middle ground. But
to hear Mark Lombardo tell it, shock, without a doubt,
altered the trajectory of his life dealing drugs.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I think it was a blessing that I got caught.
I think it was a blessing that I was made
an example and that I was sentenced to prison and
I had to do my term.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I really do.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I feel with my personality and addictive personality, it could
have led to other things. It could have led to
stupider decisions. I think, without a doubt it would have
ended poorly regardless, and by maybe it happening so quickly,
it could have been the best thing that's ever happened
to me. So now you got to turn a positive
(29:16):
into it and move on.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
As soon as he got out, I was with him
and asking them how was it, and again he talked
about it in a positive way. I do believe that
some people would go and experience something like that and
come out and never change, and they just did it
to cut down a time. I think he did take
that opportunity to reflect and to realize that that was
(29:38):
not the way to go.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
This is twelve years now, it's twelve years since it happened,
and I think about it a lot. I have had
many dreams about Shock since being released. I guess probably
five or six, maybe seven dreams specifically relating to Shock,
all of in which I went back. It's funny because
(30:03):
every dream that I've had has been completely different than
the next. It's a different looking location, it's a different
group of people, different drill instructors. So it's very strange.
I wake up every time from those dreams and I say,
oh my god, thank God, that was just a dream,
and that wouldn't be a dream, that would be a nightmare.
(30:24):
And that's why when I reflect back on it, I
understand what that program's about. I understand it, and so
many people that I know or don't know could clearly
benefit from going through that program. It did wake me up.
It did make me realize, what the fuck are you doing?
It is a mental mind fuck program. And remember I
wrote a letter to my mother and I said, Mom,
(30:45):
I understand this. Don't worry about me. I know how
to get through this. Half the other people didn't, and
we lost them. We lost those people and they got
sent out and they had to go do their full time.
It's helped me redefine who I am. And at the
end of the day, I'm very proud to say that
I turned out to be all right. This program that
(31:06):
I went through, thirty three percent of people don't make
it through. I think there's a sixty two or sixty
three percent chance that they go back to prison because
they get it caught again. I'm happy I'm one of
the lucky guys. And if it's a feel good story,
or if it's something to maybe put a positive spin
on somebody else's life, then that's the time to say it.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Mark shared the raw details of his drug dealing days
that most people would probably have taken to the grave,
but he was worried about divulging some aspects of his story.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
I definitely want to tell the real story. I want
to tell what happened. It is putting myself on the line.
I've always been a cut and dry, black and white
kind of guy. I'm not beat around the bush. I
will tell you what's on my mind. And I do
want to tell this story. Like I said, it's been
twelve years. I've always envisioned it and I will tell
it with the most honest way that I can tell it.
(32:01):
There are a few names that I will not mention,
people that are still in the lifestyle, people that I
still communicate with at times.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Mark's friend and partner, Rob Knebel, was certainly instrumental in
helping Mark get back on his feet after graduating from shock.
But Rob is not someone who will take the credit
for Mark's success. Rob doesn't see it that way.
Speaker 6 (32:24):
Mark is a very peaceable, loving kind guy to his
own fault and himself. You've got to give him a
lot of credit too, because at the end of the day,
when he goes to bet, he's in bed by himself
and he's looking at the ceiling by himself. He got
to buckle up but a cup and do the right thing.
And a lot of guys don't have it in him
to actually do that, even when help is offered to them.
(32:45):
And because of his heart and his mind and his family,
he did it. And he gets, hey, oh my buddy
Rob helped me out, or my mother wrote me a
letter or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But he did it himself.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
Bottom line is he did it, and I'm very very
happy for him, and I will be for the rest
of my life.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I know that there is a part of it that
it could backfire, maybe because of my career or the
restaurant that I own, But I'm willing to take that
chance because it has been a passion of mine to
not so much tell my story but honestly have it
be a feel good story, if it could be a
positive spin on somebody's life. I'm a proven statistic that, yes,
(33:24):
you can fuck up, you can go through bad times,
you can hit rock bottom, but if you do what's right,
you can get through it, and you can succeed and
hopefully go on and have a happy, successful life and living.
Speaker 11 (33:44):
Shock Incarceration is a joint production from iHeartRadio and Doghouse Pictures,
produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Mark Lombardo,
Tommy James, Noel.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Brown, and Jeff Keating.
Speaker 11 (33:56):
Written by Jim Roberts, Tommy James, Chris Rigatzo and Jeff Keating.
Story edited by Jim Roberts, Edit mix and sound design
by Lane Krauss from Herd's Creek Productions. Music composed by
Diamond Street Productions. Accompanied by Tyler Greenwell, Danny Wattanas, Sean
Thompson and Spencer Garne. Special thanks to Trinity Investigative Group
(34:16):
and Mark Lombardo's family and friends who contributed to the
podcast
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