March 27, 2025 • 46 mins
For 22-year-old bestselling author, Carrie Berk, it hasn't always been 'Peace, Love, and Cupcakes!"
Despite Carrie's MAJOR success writing children's books, she has quietly 'carried' the burden of anxiety...UNTIL NOW!
Plus, if you think YOU'VE suffered an inconvenient panic attack- wait until you hear how Oliver braved one in the bedroom!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and
what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling railvalry. No, no, sibling.
You don't do that with your mouth. Revelry. That's good.
(00:38):
Oh yeah, that's why. That's how I feel. Right, I'm hungry.
I'm hungry because I am intermittent fasting once again. I've
got problems. You know. It's like I go in these
waves of work out intermitt fast, like be healthy, and
(01:00):
then you know, fall off into some hit. But I
went to the Lakers game last night. It was so
much fun and I'm not drinking during the week. This
is my new thing. But then you go to the
Lakers game, Like, how am I not going to have
some beers? You know what I mean, It's like an
impossibility not to and I did, and then you have
(01:21):
two beers and then you know, I'm with Kate, my assist,
and she's like, let's have let's have a martini. I'm
like yeah, and then it's halftime and then it's like
do you want another martini? I'm like yeah, and then
you know we finished the martini and we have some
cool food, and then Kate's like, you know, should we
(01:42):
do another one. I'm like, yeah, I'll just do a
course light. And then I'm like, what the fuck am
I doing? Anyway? And then I came home and it
was great. And it was my son's birthday yesterday, Bodie.
It was fifteen, and it's my little man. And I'll
talk about all that later. Anyway, We've got Carrie Burke
waiting in our waiting room. I'm excited to talk to her. Interesting.
(02:08):
She hit me up and she's got multiple books, I
think multiple bestsellers. She's got another book coming out, and
she's a young buck who is tackling the issues of anxiety,
which is just very cool to hear something from her
perspective at this age, assuming, of course, she's probably gone
(02:31):
through it herself. It's very timely. As anyone who's listening
to my podcast, you know, they know that I've been
through my fair share of shit. So let's commiserate, let's experience,
and let's try to be impactful and figure some shit out.
(02:53):
So bring her up. Hey, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I'm good, Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Nice to meet you too. Where are you looks city
like you and in New York?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I'm in New York.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Are you born and raised New York?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Family, siblings, have siblings? No siblings, No siblings.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I know I'm a little sad about it, but are you?
I am? I feel like I wanted like a best
friend growing up. I had to learn independent all by myself.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, and did you ever give your parents shit about it?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
No? I feel like I only really got mad about
it when I kind of turned eighteen and I realized
that I didn't really grow into my own because I
didn't have like an older sister to look up to
or an older brother to look up to. Them about
it when I got older. But back then it was
really nice because I got all the attention.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Of course, But you can blame all of your problems
on your parents now, because if they had only given
you a sibling, you would be You would be perfect,
you would have no mental health issues, you would not
be ailing in any way whatsoever because you had a
partner in crime. So at least you have that excuse.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I have no excuse. I have no excuse. We have
I have siblings, I've got siblings. Well, thanks for coming on.
Thanks for hitting me up. You know, I've obviously, you know,
talked about my anxiety, you know issues growing up. First
(04:35):
started in my twenties, and it was you know, I've
talked about it before, but it was almost like having
a heart attack, went down to a knee, not understanding
what it was. Thought I was dying on the streets
of Hollywood, you know, and that sort of began the
journey of a bit of self discovery, of course, because
(04:56):
we're trying to figure out where why this has happened,
where it comes from, and why it's happened. I went
and I did all the tests. I mean, I thought
I was dying, you know, it's heart this that okay,
And then meditation, journaling in my first bout anyway, sort
of got me through it, but there was still this
residual feeling of just unease. And then I went on
(05:19):
SELEXA and then after that I've had sort of two
more pretty gnarly bouts of it, all the while sort
of living with you know, some low grade stuff. But
as you know, we learn how to manage it, the
feeling becomes a little bit more normalized. It doesn't get
(05:41):
as scary. So I'm glad to have you on. And
how old are you? Were? Twenties, early twenties, twenty two,
twenty two and you're prolific, meaning how many books have
you written already twenty two? Are you shitting me? I'm
not shitting you, Okay, So explain how this happen because
it's such a young age. Yes, how are you even?
(06:05):
How did you even develop that the work ethic? You
know what, I mean? To sit down and start writing books,
your executive functioning must be off the charts.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I don't even know. I think I've just had such
a passion for writing since I was a little girl.
So the majority of the books I wrote previously were
with my mom. I wrote children's books growing up with her,
and that's kind of how I got into it. But
as I've grown older and kind of when the pandemic hit,
I really decided to come into my own as a
(06:38):
writer and come out with my first solo debut book.
So I'd written about all these children's book topics before,
but I wanted to write about things that are more
pertinent to me and my generation, and also just do
something that matters and write about topics that matter. So
my first book was about romance and and kind of
(07:01):
how I learned how to navigate those tricky waters as
a teenager in dating in New York City, because it
is very tough. And I talk a lot in the
book about how once I went through my whole anxiety
journey and I found self love, That's really when I
felt like I could find a partner, and that's what
really resonated the most with people in that first book.
(07:23):
So I kind of took that and ran with it,
and that's what brought me to write my latest book,
which is called The Mind Fire.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So when you wrote the first book Pandemic, you're twenty two.
So are we looking at like eighteen nineteen years old?
Is this?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah? So I was class of twenty twenty. I didn't
have from or graduation or anything like that, so it
was a really tough year for my entire class.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I bet I want to get into all that, but first,
you're writing a book about romance and finding love at
such a young age, which is interesting because these are
sort of our exploratory years when, of course we want
to find someone we love a partner, you know. I mean,
I'm forty eight, but I remember when year when I
(08:10):
was eighteen or nineteen years old. You know, the world
is our sort of oyster minus anxiety, minus the things
that are holding us back from experiencing the world as
we want to. But it's really interesting that you're writing
a book about love and romance for this generation. It's
(08:31):
interesting what I haven't read it about? What angles are
you taking? You know what I mean? Because it's not
for a forever thing. I mean maybe it is, but yeah,
you know, how are you boiling that down to your demographic?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So I like to call it the gen z. Sex
in the City I was named after Kerrie Bradshaw. I
feel like I was kind of destined to write this.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
It's so funny. No, I did an episode of Sex
in the City.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Was just on Kristin Davis. I just did her podcast yesterday.
This is with her yesterday.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I love it. Sex and the City is literally in
my blood. My mom looked at the the HBO website
for Sex and the City when I was born, so
she wanted to name me Carrie, and everyone was like, no, no,
you can't. Can't name her Carrie. That's too embarrassing. Because
Sarah Jessica was pregnant at the same time with her son.
(09:28):
So she named me Caroline and I go by Carrie.
Funny enough, and I write about this in my book.
When I was twelve, I became friends with her son. Oh,
I had no idea who she was, Like, my mom
didn't introduce me to sex and the City until I
was of age.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So one day she was dropping me off at a
playdate with the Sun and she opened the door and
it was Sarah Jessica. Oh my god, Oh wow, you
have no idea this this woman inspired your name. And
I just had no idea at the time. It was
just one of my good friends.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Wow. That must have been shocking.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, I mean it was a very nice house.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I feel like we knew something was up.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I mean I was a fan of Ferris Bueller. I
saw Roderick and I was like, oh my god, no, no, no,
that's Sarah Jessica Parker.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You're like, great, but I don't care. It's it's it's
Fairest Bueller.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Cooler a swimming pool. Yeah that was crazy. Uh yeah,
back to your question. Yeah, why I'm writing about love
at et So I feel like there were not a
lot of books out there written by a teenager four
teenagers talking about that topic. And even though it's not
necessarily you finding your forever person at age eighteen, I
(10:52):
mean maybe, but likely not. These are really important formative
years of our lives. You might be falling in love
for the first time, getting your heart broken for the
first time, and people don't really have a guide on
how to navigate that beyond a wiki how or like
(11:12):
data that scientists posts or anything like that, or like experts.
It's not coming from the source and someone who's going
through it. So I took my skills as a writer
and my knowledge as just an eighteen year old girl
and use that to write a book.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Did you have experience though, with heartbreak, with love, with rejection,
with all of that? Were you writing from a place
of experience or was you were okay?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Not to say that you can't write from a place
from an outside perspective, you know, but if you had
experience with some of these things, then it can resonate.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, for sure. I wrote about getting my heartbroken, falling
on for the first time, and then on top of that,
it's just a fun read because growing up New York
City and dating, growing up as a social media influencer
at eighteen and dating all social media TikTok world. I
have some really funny, interesting stories and people wanted to
(12:13):
read it.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, that's so great. My son is seventeen and he's
had a girlfriend for two years fifteen when they got together,
(12:38):
and it's real, you know, it's real love. Yeah, and
it's really interesting to watch him mature because of it.
You know, you're no longer just responsible for yourself and
your feelings. You know, you have to take into account
someone else's feelings. There's a ton of sacrifice, you know,
where he wants to do something with his friend, but
(13:00):
you know, he's made plans with his girl, and it's
really amazing to watch him sort of navigate that and
to see his maturity levels just sort of rise. I
was similar. I was fifteen fourteen, I met my high
school girlfriend and she was my high school sweetheart through
all of high school, you know, and I love that.
(13:22):
I think it's really amazing to sort of fill in
that gap because I'm not sure I've ever heard of
anyone writing about young love that way, and that's why
I to fill me Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. So
let's go to your anxiety let's talk about that for
a second, because fun stuff. Yes, it's amazing I found though,
(13:44):
I mean, obviously, you know, I was, I'm forty eight.
I was twenty three or twenty four when I first
had my bout right right, And it wasn't necessarily of course,
technology wasn't what it is now. Everything wasn't right in
our hands, you know, and we were inundated with algorithms,
so it wasn't necessarily at the forefront of things where
(14:07):
anxiety right now is almost hot like ADHD and anxiety
are hot right now, you know. And my son actually
went through it, Wilder, who I was telling you about.
My mother went through it the same age that I did,
you know. So I think there's some sort of a
genetic component to it, which I don't know if that's
scientifically proven or not, but but nowadays right so, but
(14:35):
I would talk about it, never was afraid to express
how I was feeling, and it was really comforting to
hear people give it back to me and saying, oh, yeah,
I'm going through that. I go through that. I've been
through that, you know. So for you to write a
book about it, your experiences with it, the people that
(14:58):
it's probably going to reach help. It's tremendous. But talk
about sort of how this happened, what age, How did
you know it was anxiety?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Mm hmm. So I was very similar to you. I
didn't know it was anxiety. I thought I was dying
at the time. I thought it was COVID because it's
the middle of COVID. So I had a panic attack
one night, basically just couldn't breathe, my hands were shaking,
I was sweating, just cookie cutter panic attack. But I
didn't know what it was. So I went to the
(15:28):
doctor next day and got a COVID test and it
wasn't COVID, And my mom said, this sounds like it's anxiety.
And to me, anxiety was the same thing as stressed.
I thought it was like the butterflies i'd get before
a test at school. I never really understood what anxiety
was until I started to experience it frequently. So I
(15:50):
would get those panic attacks a lot, most likely as
a result of just eating, sleeping, and breathing as an
eighteen year old girl being isolated in her adulting years,
and it was just really tough. And one day I
was at a pumpkin patch with one of my friends,
and she told me that she also had anxiety, but
(16:12):
to the point where she cut herself and she showed
me her wrists, and that image of her wrists stuck
in my mind for a really long time, and I
couldn't let go of that image. And I was convinced
that if I had anxiety and she had anxiety, then
I was destined to end up like her. And I
couldn't shake that thought, and eventually it just became such
(16:36):
an overwhelming intrusive thought because I didn't want to hurt myself.
That wasn't necessarily a logical thought. For some reason, I
couldn't let go of it. So one day I just
collapsed over my peloton bike, started crying and said, I
can't take this anymore, like I have to get help.
So I went to see a therapist, and my therapist
(16:58):
told me that it was OCD, and same thing. I
did not know what OCD was beyond what we see
in the media, which is keeping your pencils in order,
excessive cleaning. I didn't really understand that OCD can really
be mental, an intense mental rumination that is debilitating. So
(17:19):
it took time and a lot of education into the
world of OCD and anxiety, and throughout it all, I
was writing these diary entries to kind of make sense
of everything, nothing that I ever wanted to publish, just
to kind of help me make sense of what was
going on inside my mind. And I turned a corner
(17:41):
probably about two years into it, so twenty twenty two,
when I realized it wasn't going to get better. And
it's okay to admit that, because anxiety doesn't have a
finish line. We don't strive towards being cured or anything.
We just strive towards being stronger so that when it
comes up, we know how to tackle it better. Yeah,
(18:02):
And that's kind of when I started to learn a
lot more and I looked back at these diary entries
and it was really, I think maybe twenty twenty three
or beginning of twenty twenty four, when I started piecing
the entries together and I realized that I was at
a point where I felt confident enough in my anxiety
(18:24):
to publish them. But I didn't want to just publish
them as personal essays. I wanted to put them into
a book, because again, there's a gap out there. There's
not enough people who are in their twenties talking about
their anxiety. There's the data, there's the scientists. You can
read all that, but it's so much more powerful to
(18:44):
read from someone who's going through it that you can
relate to.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
To help me feel less alone.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
That's a long winded version of how mine came to be.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
No, no, not at all. It was not at all long winded.
But I wonder. So you had that first panic attack
not knowing what it was, and it's scary shit because
it's like I'm dying.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, it's the worst.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So once you were able to come to terms with
the fact that you weren't dying, it still doesn't get
better until you actually dig in and live with it
and then begin to understand that it's just a feeling. Yeah,
it's not going to kill you, and then sort of
disassociating yourself from you as the human and your anxiety,
(19:24):
meaning you are not your anxiety, you just have it.
You know, I was in Did you do cognitive behavioral therapy?
Is that what you were doing? Or?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, cognitive therapy and also exposure and response prevention therapy
for my own city. So for example, like closing my
eyes and envisioning the intrusive thought. Really living it and
imagining it in vivid detail in order to desensitize yourself
to me is super hard.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I bet so. But when how did it manifest
itself after that first sort of panic attack on the
from day on, like the day to day on the
daily you know, how is your how is it manifesting itself?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Well, before the pumpkin patch, it was all physical. It
was just me sweating, shaking. I would like drop my
breakfast on the floor because my hands were shaking so much. Wow.
I was having trouble breathing, just shallow breaths. And then
after the pumpkin patch, it kind of flipped a switch
and it was purely mental rumination. So I had managed
(20:29):
to convince myself that because I had anxiety, I was
destined to hurt myself, and I was just like waiting
for waiting for something to give, Like I didn't trust
myself anymore because I felt like I saw this image
in my future and I was convinced that, like I
was going to get there even though I didn't want
to get there. And it was just me logicing through
(20:51):
that thought over and over again every day, so I
would I would literally sit and look at my ceiling
and go, I'm really confused. I don't know why I'm
having this thought. I don't want to hurt myself, but
I can't stop thinking about it. So what do I do?
I don't want to hurt myself because XYZ, so I
just like logic through it, and once I reached a
point of resolution, five minutes later, it would start all
(21:15):
over again. And that's what OCD is. You're obsessing over
the thought. You're performing the compulsion by telling yourself why
the thought isn't true. And by doing that, it's like
filling a cup with a hole in it. You're just
going to eat that over and over again.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, yeah, and you can't stop. That's the frustrating part
where it's like, oh, just like Carrie, stop fucking thinking
about it, you know what I mean. But it's it's
you can't And.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
The number of times I heard that too, like when
I first told my mom.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Of course, just stop thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, just stop thinking about it. Think of something else
you don't like. It's that girl in school that's bullying you.
Why can't you like imagine being so mad at her?
And I'm like, no, you don't understand, Like, the reason
why I'm latching onto this thought is because it's something
I value. I value my life. OCD latches onto things
that you care about and that are of most value
(22:08):
to you. And at the time the pandemic, I value living.
I wanted my life back, So of course that's what
my OCD latched onto.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah. Yeah, And how did how did it affect your
sort of daily life? Because if it went from that
physical to those just ruminations, were you able to live
a normal existence? Of course it was COVID, but you know,
were you able to sort of you know, walk around
(22:39):
do your thing? And yes, you're ruminating, but it wasn't
physical like and I'm asking this because for me, it
was physical, you know what I mean. Like in the
first bout, it was stomach like I would throw up,
you know, I would go if I walked outside, I
would throw up there. And that I wasn't bree I
was shallow breath. I'd have be having sex with my wife,
and it was just kind of like you got to
(23:01):
get off, like I couldn't function from a physical standpoint.
And then of course it changed. In my last bout,
it was it was it was very different, which was
about five years ago, you know, But did it affect
your your walk around, your daily existence.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, but different in the sense that people may not
have known as much as maybe for you, like if
you were physically vomiting and saw that. So, yes, I
was struggling, but nobody, nobody knew. I just wasn't I
wasn't present. I was going about my day to day
life at the time. I was blowing up on TikTok.
(23:44):
So on the outside, it looked like I had this
massive success, I was making money. It looked like everything
was wonderful, But I was not present. I felt depersonalized.
I would be walking around and my surroundings would be blurry.
So I would be functioning and I would be there,
but I wouldn't really be there.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It's that disassociation where you don't feel real. And that's
what my son said to me when it first started.
He's like, Dad, I just don't feel real. Yeah, and
I get that, where you're just like, what universe am
I living in?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Almost like
you're on the outside looking in on yourself. Yeah, take
yourself out of it, but you can't.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I am on lexaproo. Yeah are you? Are you on lexapro? Yeah?
So and it helped. And my last bout was when
I tried to wean off of it and I did
it properly.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
It's so hard.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Oh I did it. I thought I did it properly,
and I was just like, you know what, I don't
think I need this anymore. I mean, I feel good,
so let me just you know, not really knowing why,
I was just like I just don't want to be
on it and I don't even know why. But I
did it, and oh man, it fucked me up big time.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I tried to. I think I went down like five
milligrams like a time bit. Yeah, a total freak out.
And then I was like I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Nope, Yeah I did it. I started like this is
a few years back, but I started in maybe May,
in March and or you know, actually February started my
wien process. And then once I hit the summer months,
I was a fucking basket case. But I was still
fighting and I'm like I'm going to get through this.
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna fucking do it. And
(25:36):
then I get a call of like they want you
to do this TV show in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and
I'm like, Okay, I can't. I can't go work like this,
Like this would be insane, you know what I mean?
So I said, fuck it. I guess I just go
back on you know, yeah, go back on it.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
It's there's no shame in taking medication. Obviously it's not everything,
and not everybody needs it, but it certainly helps, and
especially if you're someone who's debilitated by something like anxiety
or OCD, it just takes the edge off. It's not
a cure all, but it helps you be a little
(26:19):
a bit better functioning of a human.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Where are you at right now with all of it?
You know? I mean, are you pretty stable or do
you still have now that you are on lexapro or
are you are you just cool all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So the difference with the lexapro is my physical symptoms
are reduced, so I think anxiety and intrusive thoughts are
pretty constant. I'm going to live with them my whole life.
It is as someone with OCD, like they're just going
to stick, and it is what it is. Difference though,
is I can have these intrusive thoughts every day and
(27:05):
Sure they suck and I'm annoyed by them, but they're
not debilitating. So every time I get a thought every day,
I'm not panicking anymore. I'm not sitting there crying. Sometimes,
like maybe every other month, sure i'll have a panic
attack or I'll get really upset that an intrusive thought
is still there. But the difference is I'm not sitting
(27:28):
there every day ruminating over a thought, crying about it.
I see the thought in my head and I go, Okay,
I know you're not real. Yeah, it really sucks you're there,
but I know what you are, and we're going to
move on. We're not going to react. We're going to
separate this thought from the feelings of fear and sadness
that are attached to it and just move on with
(27:49):
my life.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Is that part of the process that you have developed,
sort of the tools that you have in your toolbox?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, I love the toolbox metaphor. It's a toolbox.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I know it's so colorny, but it's like there's a
visual component to it that I strangely like. You know,
it's definitely overused, but you know, because you can pull
the wrench out of the screen, I don't know. It's
like there's a visual that I like about it totally works.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
But yeah, I thought from feeling so that when the
thoughts arise, your emotions aren't too attached to them. I
think is important. Exercise. I'm a big runner.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
That's huge, by the way. I mean exercise is big.
I mean even from a clinical standpoint. When you read
about depression anxiety from doctors, from medical professionals, at the
top of the list before medication is exercise. I mean,
you know, E, diet, exercise huge.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I feel like we hear it everywhere, but it's so true.
During the pandemic, I got into running, and I didn't
just want to do like a quick three miles like
I was a total psycho. I fell in love with running.
I thought that when I was out on the road
and I was just running forever, everything like went away,
(29:10):
all the thoughts went away, if only for like an
hour or two, and I craved that feeling. So I
was in the Hamptons during the pandemic and it was
this long road and I just kept running and running
and running until I got to the end. And then
I turned back and one day it was like seven
miles and I came home and I'm like, I'm going
(29:30):
to become a runner. I'm going to run a half marathon.
And my mom was so mad. She's like, You're gonna
get hurt. This is really stupid and no, no, no, Uh.
Turns out I ran a half marathon.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I did get you did I did?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I struck fractured both my shins.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Well, I mean I had no training.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Like I was. You just went for it.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I was just going. I was running every day. I
was in the wrong shoes, I wasn't cooling whatever. I
was destined to get hurt.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
She was right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But now.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I just ran my fifth half marathon he did Sunday.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Oh yeah, my friend Alex just did too. In New York.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I did half.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah he did the half. Yeah right right. We just
had the LA Marathon. Was here too last Sunday.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah. I saw that.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I shall try it. Yes, I mean, but I'm like
a three miler, you know what I mean, Like I
do it for workout, and I do love it because
you do get into that meditative sort of pattern, that
runner's sort of focus. It takes me about a mile
the first mile. I fucking hate it. Yeah, I'm just like, ah,
I hate and then you get into that zone. Yeah,
(30:41):
but I'm like you sometimes, well, d now that I'm
even thinking about this, it was during my anxiety, I
would just go and I would run, and before I
knew it, I was like thirteen miles, you know, and
then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? You know?
And I still got to go home home, so I'd
get an uber home because I was just so in
(31:03):
the sort of locked in moment, and then I'd wake
up and just my body was devastated. But in the moment,
I wasn't even thinking, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I actually I write in my book about how when
I ran a marathon in twenty twenty two full and
I had a panic attack at mile twenty No marathon,
and it was just the worst timing. Some like random
family member that I don't even talk to, like I'm
not trying to be with, was at the other side
(31:34):
of the bridge that I had the panic attack on,
and he helped me through it, like he stood there
and helped me breathe. And it was just the most
miserable end to the marathon.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So I vowed to myself that I would do it.
Again one day, I would my redemption. If I got
a panic attack, I'd know how to handle it.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I did it again in November and I started to
panic at like a mile thirteen and I call my
boyfriend and I'm like, this is not about to happen,
Like you got to talk me through. This helped me
breathe for a mile on the phone and I was
like soaring to the ad and I was.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Great, Wow, So what do you what do you attribute
that to? You know, the first one maybe the second
one is almost like Pavlovian in a weird way. It's,
you know, because anxiety creates anxiety creates anxiety, as you know, right,
I mean I have I used to be anxious about
getting anxious. Yeah, And that's that's how that's how we roll.
(32:33):
And anyone who has anxiety can completely understand that. You know,
oh my god, am I am I going to have
a panic attack? Am I going to Am I going
to be anxious? And all of a sudden that just
creates it. So was that sort of the second panic
attack was like, you know, I don't want to I'm
railing against it so much, and the fuck here it comes.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I think it's valid to be anxious about being anxious.
I honestly think it was mile thirteen. I started to
get tired, and that made me and because I realized
that I had another thirteen miles to go, and I
felt like I could lay down and take a nap already.
So then I started freaking out. So it did out
of nowhere. I was just like, oh, I'm really tired,
(33:13):
my legs are starting to hurt. This is gonna be
it fish And then it kind of stacks together.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Do you do you drink like alcohol or alcohol?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I don't drink.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Not crazy, Yeah, well, I mean I do, but but
I was just I was, you know, correlating sort of
drinking to your anxiety where it can just it can
just exacerbate it, you know what I mean. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Rarely do I drink. Yeah, yeah, not much of a drinker.
It doesn't really good help anxiety. I don't like the
thaks of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And so you said you have a boyfriend, Yeah, okay,
how has he dealt with that or is it even
an issue? You know? And I asked that because when
I got together with who's now my wife, you know, Aaron,
I was twenty four years old, and she was right
in the middle of my insanity and she didn't She
(34:16):
was very supportive, but didn't understand it. You know, She's like,
I don't get it. You know, you come from an
amazing family. You know, everything is great in your life, Like,
what the fuck is wrong with you? You know?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
So you had to teach her about it.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
But a little bit. But I had to teach myself too,
so we kind of learned together at that point. I
had no idea. I'm like, I don't know, like I
get that, but I'm here's what. I'm crying in the
shower because I can't leave the house. So that's my reality.
I don't know why, but it is what it is.
You know.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
That's so valid. I feel like it's a learning curve
with any significant other if you lives with intense anxiety
and are medicated for it. I write about this too
in my book. I think at the very end when
when I met my boyfriend, I told him about it
pretty early on, but I don't think he really understood
(35:12):
until he saw it. I was having an intrusive thought
and I felt so guilty about it that I just
like completely broke down, like probably one of the worst
panic attacks i've ever had, because I was just humiliated,
like here was this first like great love, like someone
I could actually see a future with, and I felt
(35:32):
so broken and I broke down. I was crying. I'm like,
I'm just too broken to love you. He goes, Carrie,
We're all a little fucked up, and I'm like that's like,
that's so mean. And then now we laugh about it,
and I'm like, you are so right, like we're all
a little fucked up.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I love your boyfriend, because that's my fucking motto, the
same I always say. I was like, we're all fun up.
We are all fucked up. Every human on this earth
has some sort of issue. We're all fine, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
I think it's like a guy mindset, just like easy going.
It is what it is. But yeah, he made me
stand up because I was like on my knees crying
and he like sat next to me, helped me breathe first,
and then once I got my breath back, he made
me stand in front of the mirror and like repeat
(36:27):
like things to myself, like you are okay, Everything's going
to be okay. I am. I am like fine, I'm beautiful,
I'm special, like and I felt so stupid. But he's
so good and he's done a really great job in
trying to understand because there is really such a learning curve.
(36:49):
Nobody learns about anxiety and OCD in the way that
a lot of people experience it, which is in such
a debilitating way. He said to me the other day
that he saw OCD like represented on TV and it
was like the cleaning and stuff, and he laughed at
it and he's like, these people have no idea, and
he's like, I never would have even thought about that
(37:12):
before I met you, Like, thank you for opening my eyes.
I feel like I've learned so much. And that's something
that I look for in someone, like someone who really
understands you and makes an effort to learn if they
don't understand. Yeah, I'm very grateful.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And what are his problems?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I'm like breaking down. I'm like, you're so perfect. Do
you have any the other way? Tell me you something.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Right, exactly exactly? Please have a panic attack?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, make me go alone.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Well, let's talk about your book. We've touched upon it
a little bit, but why don't you just give us
a little, uh sort of overview.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yes, So my story which I told you. I obviously
tell my in the book, but this is a roadmap
for anyone who is struggling with their mental health and
just looking to feel less alone. I'm not going to
tell people why their thoughts aren't true or try to
disprove anything. I mentioned in Mindfire that relatability is so
(38:19):
much more powerful than reassurance that you get in anxiety.
Reading this, I hope people just what are you laughing
at me?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
For No, I'm laughing because I'm connecting with that. It's
so fucking true. Relatability is way more powerful than someone
trying to sort of fix it or say the right thing,
because it's like you don't get it. Yeah, yeah, like
you're gonna be okay. It's like, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah. The number of times my mom has literally said
to me, you're fine, it's so yes, Hey, you're gonna
be okay, And I'm like, that just doesn't help.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Na, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
So each chapter in the book is dedicated to a
different emotion that you experience when you're going through anxiety
or whatever mental health struggle you might have. So there's loneliness, restlessness,
I talk about heartbreak, I talk about grief, and losing
my grandma for the first time, and how that was
unique because I had to attend a funeral while having
(39:18):
these intrusive thoughts about death and that sucked. So I
talk about lots of stuff, and my main hope is
that people read this and they're able to relate in
a way that they might not necessarily be able to
relate to statistics that are out There really are no
people that are my age telling their stories in a raw,
(39:38):
authentic manner that people can relate to.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Is it anecdotal? Are you giving your own experiences based
on these chapter headings?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, it's memoir, so it's got it like there's a
story in every chapter, but also little self help boxes
along the way. So I interviewed real life therapists and
I have them give definitions along the way of real
therapy terms. So depersonalization intrusive thought because, like I said,
education is so important. I want to have the relatability piece,
(40:11):
but I also want people to learn a little something along.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
That's great. And is it geared towards your age group,
demographic or is it? Of course it's universal. There's no
doubt about that. Anxiety is universal. I mean, as I said,
my kid Wilder was seventeen, but he was thirteen or
fourteen at the time, and I could relate to it
as a forty eight year old dude, you know what
I mean. So it spans all demographics, but as far
(40:38):
as dealing with it, as far as sort of you know,
the way that your outlook from your perspective as a
twenty two year old. Is the book geared towards that.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
So it's catered to people who are going through their
adulting era, I like to say, in their twenties. So yes,
it's catered to people in their twenties. But to be honest, like,
these topics are so universal. I feel like anyone at
any age who has anxiety can relate to the feeling
of being lonely and feeling lonely in it, or feeling
(41:11):
restless or feeling angry. So these emotions apply to everyone.
The anecdotes are just from me growing up and twenty something.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
That's so great. Pre order the book.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yes, helps authors a lot. I will say I'm not
making a penny off this book, Like I will straight up,
I'm not making any money off this book. I'm literally
just promoting the shit out of it because I think
it has the potential to reach so many people and
help so many people, and pre order kind of helps
(41:45):
authors boost their platforms. Yeah, that's why I'm doing this.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Like mind Fire, it's about the money. Well, then let's
pre order this shit mind Fire, reorder it. Here it is,
and I show it.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I have it, nobody else has it.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
But look at look at you with the photo shoot.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Huh you know who shot this cover. Have you ever
seen this next top model? Yeah, Nigel Barker.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Oh my god, yeah, I know that guy. That's amazing,
so iconic.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
He convinced me not to wear much makeup in it.
He could do that. Give me my fake lashes, give
me full glam.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
No, I know, it's kind of great. You're like, make
me look sexy as shit in the cover of an
anxiety book.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah, but he's like, no, no heavy makeup. Yeah, zoom
in on your face. We're gonna see like the wrinkle.
I'm like, I don't know about that, but sure, no, laugh,
we'll settle on that.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, I need one. I want to read this, I
really do. I've read a million books, you know, on anxiety,
but I would love to I would love to take
a peek at this for sure.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
We have to get you one.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, send me one. I will definitely.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You will get an advanced copy. This is the advanced copy.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I want the advanced copy.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Nobody has this right now but me, my boyfriends finally
get to read it. Okay, my dad, that's about it.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Well, when you are ready, you send that to me.
I definitely want to read it and before we get
out of your mind fire just I mean, I get it.
But how did that come about the title?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Okay, so it's funny. Originally the title was going to
be Diary of an Anxious twenty something, which is the subtitle,
and I wanted something a little bit like snappier and
more catchy. So I liked Girl on Fire. When you're
going through anxiety, it feels like your brain's on fire.
YE want to put the fire out, like girl on Fire.
(43:46):
But then I was like, no, that's too similar relisia keys.
So then I brain on fire, brain sad clinical, Ye,
mind on fire, and then I cut the on im
like mind fire because it's coining a new term.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Love it. I think it's great. Send me your other
one too, I will. I don't know, so I'm a
you know, I'm an actor, but I also produce. I
have a deal at Fox, and there's I don't know.
I want to read these because I as we've been talking,
there's something here in the TV space, I think.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
So the reason why I hit you up this is
pretty embarrassing. So I was watching The Voice one of
my best friends on the Boys, and I saw your
sister on the Voice. Someone's like, oh my god, they
have a great podcast, and I'm like, shit, that's so smart,
Like this is these people will be amazing and this
would resonate with them. So that I did some research
(44:42):
on you and I'm like, hey, I've got to hit
him off.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Like no, I love that you did, I really do.
This is awesome to talk to you. Well, I appreciate you.
Thank you so much for chatting car. This is awesome
and maybe maybe there's a future for us. I think
you got some cool shit.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah cool soon.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
All right, thanks cam Hye, Bye bye fun. What a
smart young lady. Man. I love that. When I was
twenty two, it was fucking maniac. Actually, when I was
twenty two that was between my girlfriend and then my wife,
So I was single and like losing my mind. She
(45:23):
was in the Hampton's running, you know, trying to get better.
I was in the Hamptons in a pool that was
rented by the Playboy playmates. Like that's what I was
doing at twenty two. It was a great night. It
(45:43):
was insane. I was in that pool from let's see
four in the morning until seven pm the next day. Yeah,
that was fun. I was twenty two. Uh, you know,
(46:04):
I'm glad those days were over. Holy shit. Anyway, that
was awesome. I mean, she's just on point. I love
you all. I'm gonna get out of here. I'm saying
too many things by
Speaker 1 (46:19):
A
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and
what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling railvalry. No, no, sibling.
You don't do that with your mouth. Revelry. That's good.
(00:38):
Oh yeah, that's why. That's how I feel. Right, I'm hungry.
I'm hungry because I am intermittent fasting once again. I've
got problems. You know. It's like I go in these
waves of work out intermitt fast, like be healthy, and
(01:00):
then you know, fall off into some hit. But I
went to the Lakers game last night. It was so
much fun and I'm not drinking during the week. This
is my new thing. But then you go to the
Lakers game, Like, how am I not going to have
some beers? You know what I mean, It's like an
impossibility not to and I did, and then you have
(01:21):
two beers and then you know, I'm with Kate, my assist,
and she's like, let's have let's have a martini. I'm
like yeah, and then it's halftime and then it's like
do you want another martini? I'm like yeah, and then
you know we finished the martini and we have some
cool food, and then Kate's like, you know, should we
(01:42):
do another one. I'm like, yeah, I'll just do a
course light. And then I'm like, what the fuck am
I doing? Anyway? And then I came home and it
was great. And it was my son's birthday yesterday, Bodie.
It was fifteen, and it's my little man. And I'll
talk about all that later. Anyway, We've got Carrie Burke
waiting in our waiting room. I'm excited to talk to her. Interesting.
(02:08):
She hit me up and she's got multiple books, I
think multiple bestsellers. She's got another book coming out, and
she's a young buck who is tackling the issues of anxiety,
which is just very cool to hear something from her
perspective at this age, assuming, of course, she's probably gone
(02:31):
through it herself. It's very timely. As anyone who's listening
to my podcast, you know, they know that I've been
through my fair share of shit. So let's commiserate, let's experience,
and let's try to be impactful and figure some shit out.
(02:53):
So bring her up. Hey, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I'm good, Nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Nice to meet you too. Where are you looks city
like you and in New York?
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I'm in New York.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Are you born and raised New York?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Family, siblings, have siblings? No siblings, No siblings.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
I know I'm a little sad about it, but are you?
I am? I feel like I wanted like a best
friend growing up. I had to learn independent all by myself.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, and did you ever give your parents shit about it?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
No? I feel like I only really got mad about
it when I kind of turned eighteen and I realized
that I didn't really grow into my own because I
didn't have like an older sister to look up to
or an older brother to look up to. Them about
it when I got older. But back then it was
really nice because I got all the attention.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Of course, But you can blame all of your problems
on your parents now, because if they had only given
you a sibling, you would be You would be perfect,
you would have no mental health issues, you would not
be ailing in any way whatsoever because you had a
partner in crime. So at least you have that excuse.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I have no excuse. I have no excuse. We have
I have siblings, I've got siblings. Well, thanks for coming on.
Thanks for hitting me up. You know, I've obviously, you know,
talked about my anxiety, you know issues growing up. First
(04:35):
started in my twenties, and it was you know, I've
talked about it before, but it was almost like having
a heart attack, went down to a knee, not understanding
what it was. Thought I was dying on the streets
of Hollywood, you know, and that sort of began the
journey of a bit of self discovery, of course, because
(04:56):
we're trying to figure out where why this has happened,
where it comes from, and why it's happened. I went
and I did all the tests. I mean, I thought
I was dying, you know, it's heart this that okay,
And then meditation, journaling in my first bout anyway, sort
of got me through it, but there was still this
residual feeling of just unease. And then I went on
(05:19):
SELEXA and then after that I've had sort of two
more pretty gnarly bouts of it, all the while sort
of living with you know, some low grade stuff. But
as you know, we learn how to manage it, the
feeling becomes a little bit more normalized. It doesn't get
(05:41):
as scary. So I'm glad to have you on. And
how old are you? Were? Twenties, early twenties, twenty two,
twenty two and you're prolific, meaning how many books have
you written already twenty two? Are you shitting me? I'm
not shitting you, Okay, So explain how this happen because
it's such a young age. Yes, how are you even?
(06:05):
How did you even develop that the work ethic? You
know what, I mean? To sit down and start writing books,
your executive functioning must be off the charts.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I don't even know. I think I've just had such
a passion for writing since I was a little girl.
So the majority of the books I wrote previously were
with my mom. I wrote children's books growing up with her,
and that's kind of how I got into it. But
as I've grown older and kind of when the pandemic hit,
I really decided to come into my own as a
(06:38):
writer and come out with my first solo debut book.
So I'd written about all these children's book topics before,
but I wanted to write about things that are more
pertinent to me and my generation, and also just do
something that matters and write about topics that matter. So
my first book was about romance and and kind of
(07:01):
how I learned how to navigate those tricky waters as
a teenager in dating in New York City, because it
is very tough. And I talk a lot in the
book about how once I went through my whole anxiety
journey and I found self love, That's really when I
felt like I could find a partner, and that's what
really resonated the most with people in that first book.
(07:23):
So I kind of took that and ran with it,
and that's what brought me to write my latest book,
which is called The Mind Fire.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So when you wrote the first book Pandemic, you're twenty two.
So are we looking at like eighteen nineteen years old?
Is this?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah? So I was class of twenty twenty. I didn't
have from or graduation or anything like that, so it
was a really tough year for my entire class.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I bet I want to get into all that, but first,
you're writing a book about romance and finding love at
such a young age, which is interesting because these are
sort of our exploratory years when, of course we want
to find someone we love a partner, you know. I mean,
I'm forty eight, but I remember when year when I
(08:10):
was eighteen or nineteen years old. You know, the world
is our sort of oyster minus anxiety, minus the things
that are holding us back from experiencing the world as
we want to. But it's really interesting that you're writing
a book about love and romance for this generation. It's
(08:31):
interesting what I haven't read it about? What angles are
you taking? You know what I mean? Because it's not
for a forever thing. I mean maybe it is, but yeah,
you know, how are you boiling that down to your demographic?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So I like to call it the gen z. Sex
in the City I was named after Kerrie Bradshaw. I
feel like I was kind of destined to write this.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
It's so funny. No, I did an episode of Sex
in the City.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Was just on Kristin Davis. I just did her podcast yesterday.
This is with her yesterday.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I love it. Sex and the City is literally in
my blood. My mom looked at the the HBO website
for Sex and the City when I was born, so
she wanted to name me Carrie, and everyone was like, no, no,
you can't. Can't name her Carrie. That's too embarrassing. Because
Sarah Jessica was pregnant at the same time with her son.
(09:28):
So she named me Caroline and I go by Carrie.
Funny enough, and I write about this in my book.
When I was twelve, I became friends with her son. Oh,
I had no idea who she was, Like, my mom
didn't introduce me to sex and the City until I
was of age.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So one day she was dropping me off at a
playdate with the Sun and she opened the door and
it was Sarah Jessica. Oh my god, Oh wow, you
have no idea this this woman inspired your name. And
I just had no idea at the time. It was
just one of my good friends.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Wow. That must have been shocking.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, I mean it was a very nice house.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
I feel like we knew something was up.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I mean I was a fan of Ferris Bueller. I
saw Roderick and I was like, oh my god, no, no, no,
that's Sarah Jessica Parker.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You're like, great, but I don't care. It's it's it's
Fairest Bueller.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Cooler a swimming pool. Yeah that was crazy. Uh yeah,
back to your question. Yeah, why I'm writing about love
at et So I feel like there were not a
lot of books out there written by a teenager four
teenagers talking about that topic. And even though it's not
necessarily you finding your forever person at age eighteen, I
(10:52):
mean maybe, but likely not. These are really important formative
years of our lives. You might be falling in love
for the first time, getting your heart broken for the
first time, and people don't really have a guide on
how to navigate that beyond a wiki how or like
(11:12):
data that scientists posts or anything like that, or like experts.
It's not coming from the source and someone who's going
through it. So I took my skills as a writer
and my knowledge as just an eighteen year old girl
and use that to write a book.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Did you have experience though, with heartbreak, with love, with rejection,
with all of that? Were you writing from a place
of experience or was you were okay?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Not to say that you can't write from a place
from an outside perspective, you know, but if you had
experience with some of these things, then it can resonate.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, for sure. I wrote about getting my heartbroken, falling
on for the first time, and then on top of that,
it's just a fun read because growing up New York
City and dating, growing up as a social media influencer
at eighteen and dating all social media TikTok world. I
have some really funny, interesting stories and people wanted to
(12:13):
read it.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, that's so great. My son is seventeen and he's
had a girlfriend for two years fifteen when they got together,
(12:38):
and it's real, you know, it's real love. Yeah, and
it's really interesting to watch him mature because of it.
You know, you're no longer just responsible for yourself and
your feelings. You know, you have to take into account
someone else's feelings. There's a ton of sacrifice, you know,
where he wants to do something with his friend, but
(13:00):
you know, he's made plans with his girl, and it's
really amazing to watch him sort of navigate that and
to see his maturity levels just sort of rise. I
was similar. I was fifteen fourteen, I met my high
school girlfriend and she was my high school sweetheart through
all of high school, you know, and I love that.
(13:22):
I think it's really amazing to sort of fill in
that gap because I'm not sure I've ever heard of
anyone writing about young love that way, and that's why
I to fill me Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. So
let's go to your anxiety let's talk about that for
a second, because fun stuff. Yes, it's amazing I found though,
(13:44):
I mean, obviously, you know, I was, I'm forty eight.
I was twenty three or twenty four when I first
had my bout right right, And it wasn't necessarily of course,
technology wasn't what it is now. Everything wasn't right in
our hands, you know, and we were inundated with algorithms,
so it wasn't necessarily at the forefront of things where
(14:07):
anxiety right now is almost hot like ADHD and anxiety
are hot right now, you know. And my son actually
went through it, Wilder, who I was telling you about.
My mother went through it the same age that I did,
you know. So I think there's some sort of a
genetic component to it, which I don't know if that's
scientifically proven or not, but but nowadays right so, but
(14:35):
I would talk about it, never was afraid to express
how I was feeling, and it was really comforting to
hear people give it back to me and saying, oh, yeah,
I'm going through that. I go through that. I've been
through that, you know. So for you to write a
book about it, your experiences with it, the people that
(14:58):
it's probably going to reach help. It's tremendous. But talk
about sort of how this happened, what age, How did
you know it was anxiety?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Mm hmm. So I was very similar to you. I
didn't know it was anxiety. I thought I was dying
at the time. I thought it was COVID because it's
the middle of COVID. So I had a panic attack
one night, basically just couldn't breathe, my hands were shaking,
I was sweating, just cookie cutter panic attack. But I
didn't know what it was. So I went to the
(15:28):
doctor next day and got a COVID test and it
wasn't COVID, And my mom said, this sounds like it's anxiety.
And to me, anxiety was the same thing as stressed.
I thought it was like the butterflies i'd get before
a test at school. I never really understood what anxiety
was until I started to experience it frequently. So I
(15:50):
would get those panic attacks a lot, most likely as
a result of just eating, sleeping, and breathing as an
eighteen year old girl being isolated in her adulting years,
and it was just really tough. And one day I
was at a pumpkin patch with one of my friends,
and she told me that she also had anxiety, but
(16:12):
to the point where she cut herself and she showed
me her wrists, and that image of her wrists stuck
in my mind for a really long time, and I
couldn't let go of that image. And I was convinced
that if I had anxiety and she had anxiety, then
I was destined to end up like her. And I
couldn't shake that thought, and eventually it just became such
(16:36):
an overwhelming intrusive thought because I didn't want to hurt myself.
That wasn't necessarily a logical thought. For some reason, I
couldn't let go of it. So one day I just
collapsed over my peloton bike, started crying and said, I
can't take this anymore, like I have to get help.
So I went to see a therapist, and my therapist
(16:58):
told me that it was OCD, and same thing. I
did not know what OCD was beyond what we see
in the media, which is keeping your pencils in order,
excessive cleaning. I didn't really understand that OCD can really
be mental, an intense mental rumination that is debilitating. So
(17:19):
it took time and a lot of education into the
world of OCD and anxiety, and throughout it all, I
was writing these diary entries to kind of make sense
of everything, nothing that I ever wanted to publish, just
to kind of help me make sense of what was
going on inside my mind. And I turned a corner
(17:41):
probably about two years into it, so twenty twenty two,
when I realized it wasn't going to get better. And
it's okay to admit that, because anxiety doesn't have a
finish line. We don't strive towards being cured or anything.
We just strive towards being stronger so that when it
comes up, we know how to tackle it better. Yeah,
(18:02):
And that's kind of when I started to learn a
lot more and I looked back at these diary entries
and it was really, I think maybe twenty twenty three
or beginning of twenty twenty four, when I started piecing
the entries together and I realized that I was at
a point where I felt confident enough in my anxiety
(18:24):
to publish them. But I didn't want to just publish
them as personal essays. I wanted to put them into
a book, because again, there's a gap out there. There's
not enough people who are in their twenties talking about
their anxiety. There's the data, there's the scientists. You can
read all that, but it's so much more powerful to
(18:44):
read from someone who's going through it that you can
relate to.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
To help me feel less alone.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
That's a long winded version of how mine came to be.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
No, no, not at all. It was not at all long winded.
But I wonder. So you had that first panic attack
not knowing what it was, and it's scary shit because
it's like I'm dying.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah, it's the worst.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
So once you were able to come to terms with
the fact that you weren't dying, it still doesn't get
better until you actually dig in and live with it
and then begin to understand that it's just a feeling. Yeah,
it's not going to kill you, and then sort of
disassociating yourself from you as the human and your anxiety,
(19:24):
meaning you are not your anxiety, you just have it.
You know, I was in Did you do cognitive behavioral therapy?
Is that what you were doing? Or?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, cognitive therapy and also exposure and response prevention therapy
for my own city. So for example, like closing my
eyes and envisioning the intrusive thought. Really living it and
imagining it in vivid detail in order to desensitize yourself
to me is super hard.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I bet so. But when how did it manifest
itself after that first sort of panic attack on the
from day on, like the day to day on the
daily you know, how is your how is it manifesting itself?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Well, before the pumpkin patch, it was all physical. It
was just me sweating, shaking. I would like drop my
breakfast on the floor because my hands were shaking so much. Wow.
I was having trouble breathing, just shallow breaths. And then
after the pumpkin patch, it kind of flipped a switch
and it was purely mental rumination. So I had managed
(20:29):
to convince myself that because I had anxiety, I was
destined to hurt myself, and I was just like waiting
for waiting for something to give, Like I didn't trust
myself anymore because I felt like I saw this image
in my future and I was convinced that, like I
was going to get there even though I didn't want
to get there. And it was just me logicing through
(20:51):
that thought over and over again every day, so I
would I would literally sit and look at my ceiling
and go, I'm really confused. I don't know why I'm
having this thought. I don't want to hurt myself, but
I can't stop thinking about it. So what do I do?
I don't want to hurt myself because XYZ, so I
just like logic through it, and once I reached a
point of resolution, five minutes later, it would start all
(21:15):
over again. And that's what OCD is. You're obsessing over
the thought. You're performing the compulsion by telling yourself why
the thought isn't true. And by doing that, it's like
filling a cup with a hole in it. You're just
going to eat that over and over again.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, yeah, and you can't stop. That's the frustrating part
where it's like, oh, just like Carrie, stop fucking thinking
about it, you know what I mean. But it's it's
you can't And.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
The number of times I heard that too, like when
I first told my mom.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Of course, just stop thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, just stop thinking about it. Think of something else
you don't like. It's that girl in school that's bullying you.
Why can't you like imagine being so mad at her?
And I'm like, no, you don't understand, Like, the reason
why I'm latching onto this thought is because it's something
I value. I value my life. OCD latches onto things
that you care about and that are of most value
(22:08):
to you. And at the time the pandemic, I value living.
I wanted my life back, So of course that's what
my OCD latched onto.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah. Yeah, And how did how did it affect your
sort of daily life? Because if it went from that
physical to those just ruminations, were you able to live
a normal existence? Of course it was COVID, but you know,
were you able to sort of you know, walk around
(22:39):
do your thing? And yes, you're ruminating, but it wasn't
physical like and I'm asking this because for me, it
was physical, you know what I mean. Like in the
first bout, it was stomach like I would throw up,
you know, I would go if I walked outside, I
would throw up there. And that I wasn't bree I
was shallow breath. I'd have be having sex with my wife,
and it was just kind of like you got to
(23:01):
get off, like I couldn't function from a physical standpoint.
And then of course it changed. In my last bout,
it was it was it was very different, which was
about five years ago, you know, But did it affect
your your walk around, your daily existence.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, but different in the sense that people may not
have known as much as maybe for you, like if
you were physically vomiting and saw that. So, yes, I
was struggling, but nobody, nobody knew. I just wasn't I
wasn't present. I was going about my day to day
life at the time. I was blowing up on TikTok.
(23:44):
So on the outside, it looked like I had this
massive success, I was making money. It looked like everything
was wonderful, But I was not present. I felt depersonalized.
I would be walking around and my surroundings would be blurry.
So I would be functioning and I would be there,
but I wouldn't really be there.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It's that disassociation where you don't feel real. And that's
what my son said to me when it first started.
He's like, Dad, I just don't feel real. Yeah, and
I get that, where you're just like, what universe am
I living in?
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Almost like
you're on the outside looking in on yourself. Yeah, take
yourself out of it, but you can't.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I am on lexaproo. Yeah are you? Are you on lexapro? Yeah?
So and it helped. And my last bout was when
I tried to wean off of it and I did
it properly.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
It's so hard.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Oh I did it. I thought I did it properly,
and I was just like, you know what, I don't
think I need this anymore. I mean, I feel good,
so let me just you know, not really knowing why,
I was just like I just don't want to be
on it and I don't even know why. But I
did it, and oh man, it fucked me up big time.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I tried to. I think I went down like five
milligrams like a time bit. Yeah, a total freak out.
And then I was like I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Nope, Yeah I did it. I started like this is
a few years back, but I started in maybe May,
in March and or you know, actually February started my
wien process. And then once I hit the summer months,
I was a fucking basket case. But I was still
fighting and I'm like I'm going to get through this.
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna fucking do it. And
(25:36):
then I get a call of like they want you
to do this TV show in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and
I'm like, Okay, I can't. I can't go work like this,
Like this would be insane, you know what I mean?
So I said, fuck it. I guess I just go
back on you know, yeah, go back on it.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
It's there's no shame in taking medication. Obviously it's not everything,
and not everybody needs it, but it certainly helps, and
especially if you're someone who's debilitated by something like anxiety
or OCD, it just takes the edge off. It's not
a cure all, but it helps you be a little
(26:19):
a bit better functioning of a human.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Where are you at right now with all of it?
You know? I mean, are you pretty stable or do
you still have now that you are on lexapro or
are you are you just cool all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So the difference with the lexapro is my physical symptoms
are reduced, so I think anxiety and intrusive thoughts are
pretty constant. I'm going to live with them my whole life.
It is as someone with OCD, like they're just going
to stick, and it is what it is. Difference though,
is I can have these intrusive thoughts every day and
(27:05):
Sure they suck and I'm annoyed by them, but they're
not debilitating. So every time I get a thought every day,
I'm not panicking anymore. I'm not sitting there crying. Sometimes,
like maybe every other month, sure i'll have a panic
attack or I'll get really upset that an intrusive thought
is still there. But the difference is I'm not sitting
(27:28):
there every day ruminating over a thought, crying about it.
I see the thought in my head and I go, Okay,
I know you're not real. Yeah, it really sucks you're there,
but I know what you are, and we're going to
move on. We're not going to react. We're going to
separate this thought from the feelings of fear and sadness
that are attached to it and just move on with
(27:49):
my life.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Is that part of the process that you have developed,
sort of the tools that you have in your toolbox?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, I love the toolbox metaphor. It's a toolbox.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I know it's so colorny, but it's like there's a
visual component to it that I strangely like. You know,
it's definitely overused, but you know, because you can pull
the wrench out of the screen, I don't know. It's
like there's a visual that I like about it totally works.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
But yeah, I thought from feeling so that when the
thoughts arise, your emotions aren't too attached to them. I
think is important. Exercise. I'm a big runner.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
That's huge, by the way. I mean exercise is big.
I mean even from a clinical standpoint. When you read
about depression anxiety from doctors, from medical professionals, at the
top of the list before medication is exercise. I mean,
you know, E, diet, exercise huge.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I feel like we hear it everywhere, but it's so true.
During the pandemic, I got into running, and I didn't
just want to do like a quick three miles like
I was a total psycho. I fell in love with running.
I thought that when I was out on the road
and I was just running forever, everything like went away,
(29:10):
all the thoughts went away, if only for like an
hour or two, and I craved that feeling. So I
was in the Hamptons during the pandemic and it was
this long road and I just kept running and running
and running until I got to the end. And then
I turned back and one day it was like seven
miles and I came home and I'm like, I'm going
(29:30):
to become a runner. I'm going to run a half marathon.
And my mom was so mad. She's like, You're gonna
get hurt. This is really stupid and no, no, no, Uh.
Turns out I ran a half marathon.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I did get you did I did?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I struck fractured both my shins.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Well, I mean I had no training.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Like I was. You just went for it.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I was just going. I was running every day. I
was in the wrong shoes, I wasn't cooling whatever. I
was destined to get hurt.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
She was right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But now.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I just ran my fifth half marathon he did Sunday.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Oh yeah, my friend Alex just did too. In New York.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I did half.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah he did the half. Yeah right right. We just
had the LA Marathon. Was here too last Sunday.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah. I saw that.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I shall try it. Yes, I mean, but I'm like
a three miler, you know what I mean, Like I
do it for workout, and I do love it because
you do get into that meditative sort of pattern, that
runner's sort of focus. It takes me about a mile
the first mile. I fucking hate it. Yeah, I'm just like, ah,
I hate and then you get into that zone. Yeah,
(30:41):
but I'm like you sometimes, well, d now that I'm
even thinking about this, it was during my anxiety, I
would just go and I would run, and before I
knew it, I was like thirteen miles, you know, and
then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? You know?
And I still got to go home home, so I'd
get an uber home because I was just so in
(31:03):
the sort of locked in moment, and then I'd wake
up and just my body was devastated. But in the moment,
I wasn't even thinking, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I actually I write in my book about how when
I ran a marathon in twenty twenty two full and
I had a panic attack at mile twenty No marathon,
and it was just the worst timing. Some like random
family member that I don't even talk to, like I'm
not trying to be with, was at the other side
(31:34):
of the bridge that I had the panic attack on,
and he helped me through it, like he stood there
and helped me breathe. And it was just the most
miserable end to the marathon.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So I vowed to myself that I would do it.
Again one day, I would my redemption. If I got
a panic attack, I'd know how to handle it.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I did it again in November and I started to
panic at like a mile thirteen and I call my
boyfriend and I'm like, this is not about to happen,
Like you got to talk me through. This helped me
breathe for a mile on the phone and I was
like soaring to the ad and I was.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Great, Wow, So what do you what do you attribute
that to? You know, the first one maybe the second
one is almost like Pavlovian in a weird way. It's,
you know, because anxiety creates anxiety creates anxiety, as you know, right,
I mean I have I used to be anxious about
getting anxious. Yeah, And that's that's how that's how we roll.
(32:33):
And anyone who has anxiety can completely understand that. You know,
oh my god, am I am I going to have
a panic attack? Am I going to Am I going
to be anxious? And all of a sudden that just
creates it. So was that sort of the second panic
attack was like, you know, I don't want to I'm
railing against it so much, and the fuck here it comes.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
I think it's valid to be anxious about being anxious.
I honestly think it was mile thirteen. I started to
get tired, and that made me and because I realized
that I had another thirteen miles to go, and I
felt like I could lay down and take a nap already.
So then I started freaking out. So it did out
of nowhere. I was just like, oh, I'm really tired,
(33:13):
my legs are starting to hurt. This is gonna be
it fish And then it kind of stacks together.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Do you do you drink like alcohol or alcohol?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I don't drink.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Not crazy, Yeah, well, I mean I do, but but
I was just I was, you know, correlating sort of
drinking to your anxiety where it can just it can
just exacerbate it, you know what I mean. It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Rarely do I drink. Yeah, yeah, not much of a drinker.
It doesn't really good help anxiety. I don't like the
thaks of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
And so you said you have a boyfriend, Yeah, okay,
how has he dealt with that or is it even
an issue? You know? And I asked that because when
I got together with who's now my wife, you know, Aaron,
I was twenty four years old, and she was right
in the middle of my insanity and she didn't She
(34:16):
was very supportive, but didn't understand it. You know, She's like,
I don't get it. You know, you come from an
amazing family. You know, everything is great in your life, Like,
what the fuck is wrong with you? You know?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
So you had to teach her about it.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
But a little bit. But I had to teach myself too,
so we kind of learned together at that point. I
had no idea. I'm like, I don't know, like I
get that, but I'm here's what. I'm crying in the
shower because I can't leave the house. So that's my reality.
I don't know why, but it is what it is.
You know.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
That's so valid. I feel like it's a learning curve
with any significant other if you lives with intense anxiety
and are medicated for it. I write about this too
in my book. I think at the very end when
when I met my boyfriend, I told him about it
pretty early on, but I don't think he really understood
(35:12):
until he saw it. I was having an intrusive thought
and I felt so guilty about it that I just
like completely broke down, like probably one of the worst
panic attacks i've ever had, because I was just humiliated,
like here was this first like great love, like someone
I could actually see a future with, and I felt
(35:32):
so broken and I broke down. I was crying. I'm like,
I'm just too broken to love you. He goes, Carrie,
We're all a little fucked up, and I'm like that's like,
that's so mean. And then now we laugh about it,
and I'm like, you are so right, like we're all
a little fucked up.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I love your boyfriend, because that's my fucking motto, the
same I always say. I was like, we're all fun up.
We are all fucked up. Every human on this earth
has some sort of issue. We're all fine, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
I think it's like a guy mindset, just like easy going.
It is what it is. But yeah, he made me
stand up because I was like on my knees crying
and he like sat next to me, helped me breathe first,
and then once I got my breath back, he made
me stand in front of the mirror and like repeat
(36:27):
like things to myself, like you are okay, Everything's going
to be okay. I am. I am like fine, I'm beautiful,
I'm special, like and I felt so stupid. But he's
so good and he's done a really great job in
trying to understand because there is really such a learning curve.
(36:49):
Nobody learns about anxiety and OCD in the way that
a lot of people experience it, which is in such
a debilitating way. He said to me the other day
that he saw OCD like represented on TV and it
was like the cleaning and stuff, and he laughed at
it and he's like, these people have no idea, and
he's like, I never would have even thought about that
(37:12):
before I met you, Like, thank you for opening my eyes.
I feel like I've learned so much. And that's something
that I look for in someone, like someone who really
understands you and makes an effort to learn if they
don't understand. Yeah, I'm very grateful.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And what are his problems?
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I'm like breaking down. I'm like, you're so perfect. Do
you have any the other way? Tell me you something.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Right, exactly exactly? Please have a panic attack?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, make me go alone.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Well, let's talk about your book. We've touched upon it
a little bit, but why don't you just give us
a little, uh sort of overview.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yes, So my story which I told you. I obviously
tell my in the book, but this is a roadmap
for anyone who is struggling with their mental health and
just looking to feel less alone. I'm not going to
tell people why their thoughts aren't true or try to
disprove anything. I mentioned in Mindfire that relatability is so
(38:19):
much more powerful than reassurance that you get in anxiety.
Reading this, I hope people just what are you laughing
at me?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
For No, I'm laughing because I'm connecting with that. It's
so fucking true. Relatability is way more powerful than someone
trying to sort of fix it or say the right thing,
because it's like you don't get it. Yeah, yeah, like
you're gonna be okay. It's like, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah. The number of times my mom has literally said
to me, you're fine, it's so yes, Hey, you're gonna
be okay, And I'm like, that just doesn't help.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Na, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
So each chapter in the book is dedicated to a
different emotion that you experience when you're going through anxiety
or whatever mental health struggle you might have. So there's loneliness, restlessness,
I talk about heartbreak, I talk about grief, and losing
my grandma for the first time, and how that was
unique because I had to attend a funeral while having
(39:18):
these intrusive thoughts about death and that sucked. So I
talk about lots of stuff, and my main hope is
that people read this and they're able to relate in
a way that they might not necessarily be able to
relate to statistics that are out There really are no
people that are my age telling their stories in a raw,
(39:38):
authentic manner that people can relate to.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Is it anecdotal? Are you giving your own experiences based
on these chapter headings?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, it's memoir, so it's got it like there's a
story in every chapter, but also little self help boxes
along the way. So I interviewed real life therapists and
I have them give definitions along the way of real
therapy terms. So depersonalization intrusive thought because, like I said,
education is so important. I want to have the relatability piece,
(40:11):
but I also want people to learn a little something along.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
That's great. And is it geared towards your age group,
demographic or is it? Of course it's universal. There's no
doubt about that. Anxiety is universal. I mean, as I said,
my kid Wilder was seventeen, but he was thirteen or
fourteen at the time, and I could relate to it
as a forty eight year old dude, you know what
I mean. So it spans all demographics, but as far
(40:38):
as dealing with it, as far as sort of you know,
the way that your outlook from your perspective as a
twenty two year old. Is the book geared towards that.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
So it's catered to people who are going through their
adulting era, I like to say, in their twenties. So yes,
it's catered to people in their twenties. But to be honest, like,
these topics are so universal. I feel like anyone at
any age who has anxiety can relate to the feeling
of being lonely and feeling lonely in it, or feeling
(41:11):
restless or feeling angry. So these emotions apply to everyone.
The anecdotes are just from me growing up and twenty something.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
That's so great. Pre order the book.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yes, helps authors a lot. I will say I'm not
making a penny off this book, Like I will straight up,
I'm not making any money off this book. I'm literally
just promoting the shit out of it because I think
it has the potential to reach so many people and
help so many people, and pre order kind of helps
(41:45):
authors boost their platforms. Yeah, that's why I'm doing this.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Like mind Fire, it's about the money. Well, then let's
pre order this shit mind Fire, reorder it. Here it is,
and I show it.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I have it, nobody else has it.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
But look at look at you with the photo shoot.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Huh you know who shot this cover. Have you ever
seen this next top model? Yeah, Nigel Barker.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Oh my god, yeah, I know that guy. That's amazing,
so iconic.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
He convinced me not to wear much makeup in it.
He could do that. Give me my fake lashes, give
me full glam.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
No, I know, it's kind of great. You're like, make
me look sexy as shit in the cover of an
anxiety book.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah, but he's like, no, no heavy makeup. Yeah, zoom
in on your face. We're gonna see like the wrinkle.
I'm like, I don't know about that, but sure, no, laugh,
we'll settle on that.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, I need one. I want to read this, I
really do. I've read a million books, you know, on anxiety,
but I would love to I would love to take
a peek at this for sure.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
We have to get you one.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yeah, send me one. I will definitely.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
You will get an advanced copy. This is the advanced copy.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I want the advanced copy.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Nobody has this right now but me, my boyfriends finally
get to read it. Okay, my dad, that's about it.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Well, when you are ready, you send that to me.
I definitely want to read it and before we get
out of your mind fire just I mean, I get it.
But how did that come about the title?
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Okay, so it's funny. Originally the title was going to
be Diary of an Anxious twenty something, which is the subtitle,
and I wanted something a little bit like snappier and
more catchy. So I liked Girl on Fire. When you're
going through anxiety, it feels like your brain's on fire.
YE want to put the fire out, like girl on Fire.
(43:46):
But then I was like, no, that's too similar relisia keys.
So then I brain on fire, brain sad clinical, Ye,
mind on fire, and then I cut the on im
like mind fire because it's coining a new term.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Love it. I think it's great. Send me your other
one too, I will. I don't know, so I'm a
you know, I'm an actor, but I also produce. I
have a deal at Fox, and there's I don't know.
I want to read these because I as we've been talking,
there's something here in the TV space, I think.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
So the reason why I hit you up this is
pretty embarrassing. So I was watching The Voice one of
my best friends on the Boys, and I saw your
sister on the Voice. Someone's like, oh my god, they
have a great podcast, and I'm like, shit, that's so smart,
Like this is these people will be amazing and this
would resonate with them. So that I did some research
(44:42):
on you and I'm like, hey, I've got to hit
him off.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Like no, I love that you did, I really do.
This is awesome to talk to you. Well, I appreciate you.
Thank you so much for chatting car. This is awesome
and maybe maybe there's a future for us. I think
you got some cool shit.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah cool soon.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
All right, thanks cam Hye, Bye bye fun. What a
smart young lady. Man. I love that. When I was
twenty two, it was fucking maniac. Actually, when I was
twenty two that was between my girlfriend and then my wife,
So I was single and like losing my mind. She
(45:23):
was in the Hampton's running, you know, trying to get better.
I was in the Hamptons in a pool that was
rented by the Playboy playmates. Like that's what I was
doing at twenty two. It was a great night. It
(45:43):
was insane. I was in that pool from let's see
four in the morning until seven pm the next day. Yeah,
that was fun. I was twenty two. Uh, you know,
(46:04):
I'm glad those days were over. Holy shit. Anyway, that
was awesome. I mean, she's just on point. I love
you all. I'm gonna get out of here. I'm saying
too many things by
Speaker 1 (46:19):
A
Hosts And Creators
Oliver Hudson
Kate Hudson
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