January 30, 2025 • 45 mins
From ambition to competition, Family Therapist, Dr. Whitney Goodman breaks down the truth about sibling relationships.
She reveals the BIG mistake parents make without even realizing it, and the long-term effects of attention-seeking siblings.
Plus, what Oliver did recently that might have traumatized his son.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling. Railvalry.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No, no, sibling, don't do that with your mouth, revelry.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Oliver Hudson here check check test test, reporting live from Toronto, Canada.
I am here in my bedroom and my son is upstairs.
We are doing a movie together. It's an experience that
has yet to start, really and once it does, I
(00:58):
can't wait. I'm afraid. But but I'm not going to
get into that right now because we've had our guests
waiting for a minute. In the waiting minute, Whitney Goodman,
we need to bring her on because we need to
deal with my trauma and my child issues, because I've
I have many of them. Hello, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm good, I'm so sorry. I'm late, I've been I've
been nutty. I'm in I'm in Toronto and uh starting work.
I'm doing a movie. My son auditioned five separate times
got the job. So he's here with me playing my son,
(01:39):
which to me is going to be incredible. But you
can tell me whether he'll be traumatized from this experience.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It sounds like it could be a great experience.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
It could go either way. I mean, it could go
either way. But you know, it's definitely an incredible moment
for me to watch. Yeah, this happened, and he's never
done anything before, and it's it's a it's a substantial role.
I mean, I'm freaked out more than he is. I'm
sure it's awesome. So it's just been running around and
(02:13):
figuring out and he's got guardians and tutors and you know,
it's a whole world.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
It's wild. Yeah, absolutely, it is.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It is. Where are you?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I live in Tampa, Florida.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Mm hmm okay, a little bit different in Toronto for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
It has been cold here for us. It's been like
forties forties, pretty crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I mean that is cold. I mean there was snow
on the beach. Yeah, I know was that in Tampa.
Was on the east.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
The west coast, the Panhandle, so probably like five or
six hours north of me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Okay, so you're not getting snow. You're not getting snow,
no no, no, no, no, you move if you if.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
You got.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Before we get into all of the questions that I
have as to why I am as fucked up as
I am. Although I've been in therapy for a thousand years,
I went to the Hoffman process to deal with childhood patterns,
and you know, it was an incredible seven days, you know,
definitely life changing for me. But just a little bit
(03:17):
about you, sort of where you grew up, where you
grew up, how you got into this line of work,
and what's inspiring you know about it for you Because
for me, quickly, I'm an actor, you know. But if
I wasn't, I feel like I would be a psychologist.
I just am semi obsessed with the human condition, the
(03:40):
fact that we're all made up of the same shit,
yet we're all so vastly different. I've been through anxiety,
I'm on lexapro, you know, I dealt with feelings. I'm
very you know, sort of self reflective. And at the
same time, this whole planet's going to be a big
ball of fire at some point, civilization as we know
(04:03):
it will no longer exist. So what are we concerned
about at the end of the day. What does it
all matter? Anyway? You know? So where did you Where
did you Where did you, where did you grow up,
and how did you find your way to what you do.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, I'm born and raised in Florida.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I left for college and came back, but otherwise I've
been in some city in this state for majority of
my life, and I can very much relate to you
that I have just always been obsessed with why people
do what they do, whether that's my own family members.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Or strangers that I meet.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
I find stories about humans to be fascinating, which I
imagine is also a huge part of acting, of getting
to kind of embody someone else's experience. That that fascination
really just led me to this career. I've been practicing
as a therapist for a decade now. I cannot imagine
(05:02):
doing anything else, and learning about how people's family experiences
have impacted them is a huge interest to me. I
think it's really what makes us who we are at
the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Did you have any doubt that this was the avenue
of therapy of psychology that you wanted to get into,
or did you kind of play around with maybe this
maybe that, or was this your main focus?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
You know, everything I've done has always gone back to
the family. I've worked with people in addiction treatment centers,
doing family therapy. I worked with people who had chronic illness,
cancer diagnoses, things like that, But I've always worked with
how those difficult life events have impacted the family structure
and those relationships, and I think everything kind of comes
(05:52):
back to that at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So true, I mean, you know, it's like the root
of everything is family, the way that you were brought up,
the perception, the singular perception of how we were brought
up as well, because dealing with siblings as we have
for however many years we've been doing this podcast, you know,
(06:16):
Kate and I realized that you could be raised the same,
but our perception of how we are raised is vastly different.
I mean, we've talked to brothers who one brother like
despise their father and the other one loved him tremendously.
They were raised exactly the same, you know, So how
much does that factor into sort of the way that
(06:38):
you work, because I mean, perception is everything. Maybe it's incorrect.
Do you sometimes have to sort of skew people's perception
or put it back on track to say, well, you're
seeing this maybe in a way that isn't truthful or
that didn't actually happen.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Yeah, sibling relationships are fascinating. In a work a lot
with adult siblings who do have very different perceptions of
their childhood, and usually I find that those perceptions are
often both correct in different ways at the same time. Right,
because we have different personalities, we're different ages when events happen.
(07:17):
We also have profoundly different relationships with our parents based
on how they are responding to us because of what
we're triggering in them. Right, So you're going to see
things like gender, personality, birth order, the circumstances surrounding how
you came into the world all impact the way that
your parents relate to you. And what we find through
(07:39):
the research on sibling relationships is that the way that
the parents treat the children often is the biggest impact
on how those siblings relate to each other and how
they see themselves within that relationship.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Oh wow, so it even affects on it even affects
how the siblings view each other.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Totally, because that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
You're competing, right for your parents' time, energy resources, and
you you sometimes do see your sibling as competition for
that finite resource.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Of course, I mean, I think that's primal. You know,
at the end of the day, I mean there is
there's survival, there are survival mechanisms that still exist within
us that are unconscious. I assume you know that sort
of that that primal nature that we are, and there's
no doubt competition. I always joke with my sister, I'm like,
you have me to thank for your fame and success
(08:35):
because I was always the one who is like, loved,
the most perceptive, the perspective, the perception of that it
was that and Kate had to vie for attention, which
means that she had to sort of, you know, get
out there and show the world that she was bigger
and better and more famous. So I joke with her that,
you know, she definitely has me to thank and it
(08:56):
still exists today. You know, she still thinks, oh, olive
us the favorite and he's the one who's coddled, and
she may or may not be right or I don't know,
it's upper interpretation, but yeah, I know it's definitely. It's fascinating.
Step Now, did you first of all, do you have siblings?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yes, I am the oldest of three, Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And how much of your own dynamic that you grew
up with with your parents, with with your relationship with
your siblings. How much does that play into sort of
your practice. How influential is that in what you wanted
to do, the avenue, the direction, but also sort of
how you went about sort of helping other people, how
(09:40):
you go about helping other people.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, you know, I think I'm one of those therapists
where my personal story is not at the forefront of
my clinical work. I can certainly say, of course, in
my family, I've had, you know, estrangement and mental health
issues and chronic illness and all of these things that
I think you can find in most families. But my
personal story is not what really drives my work. I
(10:04):
find it coming up absolutely where I'm like, oh wow,
I've experienced that. And you have to constantly check in
and be doing your own work with your own therapist
to make sure that your story isn't totally getting in
the way of what's going on between you and the client.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Do you have to have your own therapist? Is that?
Is that a law?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It's a requirement for most grad schools. I know when
I went to grad school, you know, like twelve years ago,
it was required, and now I do have my own therapist.
I find it to be very helpful.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's so interesting when you really think about it, you know,
because if your therapist having therapy, you're like challenge your
therapists with your own set of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I was like, what are you talking about? Like, don't
don't try to fuck with me, don't try to fool me.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Right right, Yeah, my therapist'll be like, well, I'm sure
you've heard what I'm going to say before.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It's yeah. So do you have breakthroughs as a therapist
in therapy?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Oh? Totally, totally.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I mean life is always happening, right, and so there's
certainly things that I'm experiencing now that I could have
never predicted would have been part of my life. And
they're not situations that would have normally been triggering for
me as a therapist. You know, when I became a mother,
that was something I had to work on to make
sure that I wasn't carrying any of my.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Own stuff into those sessions.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Do you as a therapist do you have to have
lack and this sounds a little bit crazy, but lack
of empathy only because I'm a very empathetic person. Very feely,
to the point where I think it can be destructive
at times, you know what I mean, where I've taken
a lot of other people's feelings, I guess, and I
know that's sort of buzzy right now, like an EmPATH
(11:56):
and all that shit, But I feel it, you know,
I can feel it. As a therapist, you kind of
have to hear and let go.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Totally.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I think every new therapist goes through that battle of
like taking on too much, right, especially if you are
someone that is that way. And I actually found myself
like swinging a little bit too far to the other
extreme of being like too disconnected. And over the last
couple of years, especially with virtual therapy, it's easier to disconnect,
(12:28):
like you're not feeling it the same way that you
do when you're actually in a room with somebody's energy. Yeah,
that you have to make sure you don't go too
far in one extreme.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, Oh that's interesting. Now, by the way, how much
of your work is being done actually digitally now?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Literally one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I closed my office during the pandemic, and no one
ever wanted to go back to being face to face.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
See, this is fucked up, in my opinion, look, you know,
I know there's like all these you know, better help
and there's all these sort of and I think it's
great because we are actually actually making a dent in
mental health in one way or another. I love that.
And if it has to be done, you know, digitally,
and that's the only way people will do it, great,
it's better than nothing. But in person you cannot beat it.
(13:14):
You just can't beat it. You know, you can't beat
a podcast in person too. And this whole thing has
gone away. It's made it easier, it's made it great.
I get to meet you, we get to talk and
sort of get to learn about each other a little bit.
But when we were doing it in person, and I
just did one in person the other day, it just
feels so much better. That energy is so real.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
It's different.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, it's different. It's different. I mean, do you double
edged about it. You get to be sort of at home,
you get to do your thing, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
A lot of the work that I do now is
mostly groups, and so that is a really cool thing
that I'm able to do.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Virtually with a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
And I do think it makes people feel safer to
be in a group environment, like that, but when it
comes to the one on one like seeing individual clients,
I feel mixed about it. I think it's great for
some people, like you said, it's the only way they'd
get to therapy, is it being that way? But other
times I do think some people could benefit more from
(14:20):
being in person. I used to do a lot of
like couples and family work, and I cannot do that
virtually because of the talking over and stuff that I
had to totally stop.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's especially with the delay a little slight delays and
everyone's like screaming, way, you're the fucking thing.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Okay, hold on, Yeah, yeah, it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So talk about this, the group stuff that you do. Yeah,
what is that? I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
So I run a program I'm called Calling Home where
we help adults build better adult family relationships.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And I run a lot of different groups.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
We have groups for adults who are estranged from their parents,
family estrangement groups, so anyone dealing with estrangement. We have
groups for adults with difficult mothers. And really it's just
like adults from around the country getting together to find
community around some of these issues, share advice, experiences, etc.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So how many people are in the group.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Usually between thirty and forty per group.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Oh this is cool, Oh this is interesting. Okay, so
give me the logistics of this. So if I wanted
to be a part of a group of X, there's
a way to go to a website and sign up
for it and all that.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Yes, so you go to callinghome dot co. You can
sign up and then we offer right now about eight
to ten groups per month. We're currently hiring more people.
Then you can sign up for group attend virtually. You
can attend as many groups as you'd like in a month.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And is it a listening type of a group with
forty people? Like how do you how is one able
to speak? And who's moderating? Is it like one therapist?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, so I run a lot of the groups, and
then we have two other therapists. They're run all by
a licensed clinician. We bring discussion questions to the group.
People can raise their hand. We call on them in
a new order that their hands are raised to speak.
It's a very controlled environment and you can come just
to listen if.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
That feels better to you that day as well.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, so you're not being called upon. If you want
to share, then you share exactly. So you, the therapist,
will lead the group and let's say, you know, adults
who have issues with their mother, and you will sort
of give an intro and go into sort of some
of the issues, just the universal general sort of issues,
and then open it up.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yep. Yeah, we usually have about like three to five
I have specific things we want to talk about that
day in the group that I think are going to
be issues for most people there, and then people will
respond to the discussion questions or if they have just
a problem that's coming up that week between them and
their mom, they can also ask for advice or input
from the group.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I really like this. Now, is this something that's been
done for you know, a while, Like I've never heard
of anything like this, or is there are you pioneering this?
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Yeah, it's we started November of twenty twenty three, so
relatively very new.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Here's what I love about it. I love that there's
nothing is a quick fix. But we all do need advice,
and sometimes we have great friends to go for for advice, family,
et cetera. Sometimes we don't want to talk to those people.
Sometimes we just want an anonymous face or someone we
(17:54):
don't know, and you know, me sort of growing up
with whatever mental issues that I have as far as
my anxiety goes, and you know, cerebrally, I understand that
millions of people are going through the same thing. But
when you actually can relate and connect with someone who
is feeling that same way, there's a comfort in it.
(18:15):
Oh yeah, And so you don't have to sort of
spend you know, years of therapy, years of years of therapy,
and spend a ton of money to sort of maybe
get some really sound advice that could change the way
that you go about your life. You know, I think
that's pretty awesome. That's pretty great.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I've seen it have such a profound impact on the
people that come. I think for me as a therapist,
what I noticed was exactly what you're saying. I'm working
with these individuals, and all they keep saying is I'm
the only one going through this. Nobody's family is as
messed up as mine. Nobody else is dealing with X issue.
And I just kept being like, oh, I wish I
could get you guys all to hang out in a
(18:55):
room together, and you really can't do that as a therapist,
at least not legally. So it was really born out
of that need to try to create a community for
those people.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
And you're seeing a need meaning like the classes are
filled up.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yes, we have helped around like two thousand people at
this point in Our groups are always full every single week.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's so great doing give me, give me some topics,
like just for fun? What are some of the topics?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
So we dive into a different topic every month. I
calling home.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Next month we're doing like the impact of your family
relationships or family dysfunction on your romantic relationships. This month
we talked all about emotional maturity, dealing with emotionally immature
family members, done mother daughter stuff, adult sibling stuff. That's
one of our most popular topics of all time was
adult sibling relationship. Really, yes, I was very I shouldn't
(19:51):
have been surprised, but I was surprised by that.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
What did you What was the takeaway from that sort
of you know, class symposium, you know, whatever you want
to call it. What for you what surprised you the most?
What actually what was it that you sort of like,
oh my god, yes the research has shown and it's
being reflected back to me. And then what were the
big surprises of the adult.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Sibling So there's not a ton of research on adult
sibling relationships. There's like two people out there, you know,
doing research on that. And I think I knew a
lot about young siblings, but not as much about as
people age. And I was surprised how many people feel
like there's something wrong with them if they can't get
along with their sibling, and that there's really this societal
(20:36):
expectation that we will have these long lasting, lifelong relationships
with our siblings, and a lot of those relationships are
you just got lucky if you get along with your sibling,
you know, it's it's just chance. And so most of
the people were coming to the groups being like, I
feel so bad that I don't like.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
This guy that is my brother.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
You know, we're so different in all these ways, and
I think just take away that shame. Also the impact
that parents were having on these relationships, you know, by
getting them to compete with one another, drawing comparisons, meddling
in the relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
That was a big thing.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Mm hmmm. No, I know, it's so interesting because I
have three kids. Inherently there's always competitions we talked about
between siblings, it's normal. At what point do you just
let that happen, you know, because it's it's it's nature. Obviously,
(21:33):
you don't want them knifing each other in their jugulars, right,
And at what point do you sort of step in
and say, hey, you know what, like this is this
is the only person that you're going to have in
your life, you know what I mean? Like you need
to love your sibling, you know? Is that is that
a is that essentially a bad thing to do, is
to tell someone that you have to love someone.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
I think from what I hear on the other side
of adults who are having these issues, it's more about
the parent, like allowing all of the siblings to be
their own person, not making one version of a child
better than the other, and encouraging them to find ways
to problem solve with one another at the ability which
(22:16):
they're able, you know, at their age. There's some adults
that come to these groups and they're like, my parents
never intervened. They would let my brother who was bigger
than me, stronger than me, beat me up all the time,
and they never stepped in.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
And that's not right.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
And then you have this other extreme, of course, where
it's like you are interfering all the time, only protecting
one child over the other. And I feel like there's
a good happy medium there from what I can tell.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, I mean there's such a fine line, there's such
a balance. No one does it right. Let's be fucking honest.
I always say this, I've said this a million times.
And tell me if you agree with this. It's not
about if you fuck up your children. It's just to
what degree?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Totally?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
And can you be accountable and apologize and recognize the
ways in which you influenced them negatively?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
You know, influenced negatively. That's you, not saying.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
That's my therapist speak.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So then talk about a little again. I told you
went to the Hoffman process. You know what that is.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
I'm not familiar with that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Actually, Okay, yes, it's it's kind of West Coast. But
it's the risk of sounding like an asshole. I mean,
it's it's been around for sixty years. A guy named
Bob Hoffman created it, and it's this amalgamation that's meshing,
this smashing together of all different kinds of therapies, all
different kinds of spiritualities. And it was an experiment basically
(23:48):
in the beginning, and it has evolved into a process,
and it's become sort of hip in the last like seven, eight, nine,
ten years, where there's like a ton of celebrities, you know,
gone to the Hoffmann process, you know, and you know,
I'm just always dealing with childhood issues. Dad kind of
bailed when I was a kid. Their self esteem stuff here,
(24:10):
you know, all the stuff, all the one oh one
that you would probably you know, put on me is true, right,
And I've seen it affect my life. I'm very hyper
aware of myself. I know that there's I have compulsivity,
of impulsivity, there's certain things that I wish I could
control better. Just always on the search, you know what
(24:33):
I mean. Like, I'm not okay just being the worst
part of myself. I'm okay having a bad part because
we all do, but I'm not okay living in it.
And I went to this process and without getting into
the whole things I've already done and I've already talked
about on this podcast before, but it's diving into childhood patterns.
(24:55):
It's this idea that we have negative love patterns as well,
because when we're born, we need love to survive essentially,
and whether that's positive love or negative love, we will
attach ourselves even to the negative stuff, at which point
then we begin to act out these patterns unconsciously, you know,
(25:16):
and then it goes into sort of you know, you
recognize it, but there's a lot of self forgiveness, forgiveness
of your parents because if you go back into their lives,
you can sort of see the pattern that it happened
from their parents and how it's kind of been passed down,
which was the case with my father like tremendously. And
(25:38):
then it's just kind of diving into compassion and forgiveness
and exposing yourself through all of these different methods that
some you just are like what am I doing right now?
And for me personally, it was about surrender because you
(25:59):
go in there and there's forty people and it's a
week long, and you have your small groups as well,
but you do most of the work within the big group,
and you know, they're all going nuts. They're beating on
a pillow with a whiffootball bat or whatever they're doing.
It's their mother, and you're like, what the fuck is happening?
You know, I feel like an idiot doing this? But
why do I feel like an idiot? You know? Which
(26:20):
is part of my issue as well. So it's about
surrendering to the process. And once I did and had
a crazy breakdown slash breakthrough, it was easier, you know,
and it was incredible. And not to say that you
don't go back to certain things because we're human and
within the process at the end, they say, this is
not like a pill that's going to fix your life.
(26:42):
We're hopefully giving you some tools to deal with shit.
But I will say that in that first week the honeymoon,
it's the most incredible feeling that I've ever had. And
I'm I'm a skeptical person. I'm not cynical. I'm just skeptical,
you know. I want to see it and feel it.
I'm not just going to sort of oh my God
(27:03):
and dive into some sort of spiritual practice like I'm in.
I want to have that proof, you know what I mean.
And I felt psychic, honestly. I was seeing the world differently.
It was sparkling. I had this weight that had been
lifted off of me, this gunk that had been scraped
from the inner recesses of every piece of my body
(27:25):
that have been sticking to the rib cage. And not
to say that it doesn't build back up. But within
that week I felt my full potential as Oliver Hudson
as a human being, the full potential of what it
could be impossible to live in that moment because it's
too glorious, you know. So anyway, all that to say,
(27:50):
that's kind of what the process is. But it's dealing
with childhood patterns. And I guess the big roundabout way
the question is, you know, how much have you looked
into that? How much does that matter, you know, sort
of in raising your kids, whether you are imprinting these
positive and negative patterns on them, you know, and when
(28:11):
that starts, and how how detrimental that might be to
sort of who they are and how they grow up.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I mean, being aware of those patterns is so important, right,
And you're speaking to that that, Like, I had this
huge awakening and understanding of myself from working through all
of that, and I think we can't understate like how
impactful that can be on you.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And so I find now that we have a lot
of you know, especially like millennial parents are really into
all this stuff. You can get almost too afraid of
messing up your kids, yes, you know, And I find
myself falling into that. You know, I have two kids,
and I'm like, I'm a therapist.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I deal. I'm listening to people whose parents have destroyed
them every day and I'm like, oh my god, what
am I going to do my kids?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Like that's so interesting. Oh you get to hear all
the horror stories and yeah, now you're old. Are your kids?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
I have a seven month old and a three and
a half year old.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Okay, so you got babies, and they'say, oh yeah, you're
a therapist. Now you're hearing all these horror stories. You're like, Okay,
this is what not to do, what not to do?
Maybe all right?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Right?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And it's like, you know, I'm out here talking about
all this stuff. My kids are going to be able
to like play this back one day and be like.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Mom, what do you do at home? You know, I
have to really walk the walk here.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
And that can be scary too, right, that we put
this pressure on ourselves, that there's this fine line between
like holding yourself accountable and saying I can really do
some damage to my kids, and also like life is
going to happen, and some things are going to happen
that are totally out of my control. That are going
(29:51):
to negatively impact my kids. And that's where, like we
kind of touched on this earlier. I think that being
aware of that and being able to repair and wreck,
recognize and look at your kids and say that was hard,
that was shitty for you to go to I wish
that didn't happen, is more powerful than anything, because we're
all going to mess up, myself included. Yeah, and have
(30:13):
our kids sitting on a therapist couch telling them about
something from their life.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You know, no one's immune from that.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
And I think expecting yourself to be as a parent
is where you set yourself up for failure a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I think that's a great a great lesson, which is
you don't don't try so hard to be perfect because
it doesn't exist. You know. You have to rely on
your instincts, I believe, and then of course take lessons
from people you respect, you know, and then communicate, you know.
And it's not just communicating to your child about how
(30:48):
they must feel or how I think it's communicating too,
how you feel as the parent and how you might
fuck up. I actually had a moment with my oldest
you know, who's now a teen. I forget how old
he was then, but he was fucking up doing something.
I don't remember what it was, you know, And I
(31:08):
have I have, you know, snapped at times where I
realized I was in the wrong, and I, you know,
nerves get frayed as a parent, you know what I mean,
Like you do, and you say things too quickly and
sometimes you don't think them through and I apologize, you know,
I'm like, hey, man, sorry, Like that's on me. I
screwed that one up. And then in this specific instance,
(31:31):
I said, you're the first kid you're going to screw up.
But guess who else is me? Because I don't know
what I'm doing. Body and rio my other two they're
going to benefit from this because I'm learning. So I'm
going to cut you a little slack, but you got
to cut me a little slack too, because just as
you're going through puberty and you're figuring shit out, I'm
(31:53):
going through adult puberty. You know, I'm trying to figure
out how to raise a teenager. I have no fucking idea, right,
I'm just going off of my own instincts and trying
not to be a hypocrite. Knowing who I was as
a kid and understanding that part too. Yeah, not condoning
it because I did some crazy, crazy things, but at
(32:15):
least understanding it, you.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Know, totally.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
I think what's so beautiful about the story you shares
like you're saying, Look, I'm human, you're human. It's my
job to lead here because I'm the parents. So I'm
going to take accountability when I mess up, and I'm
also holding you to a standard that I think you
can reach as my kid, and an expectation that I have.
And you know, the number one thing that I hear
(32:41):
from adults who have bad relationships with their parents is
that they wish that their parents could just do that right,
just show up and say.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Hey, I messed up. Shouldn't have reacted that way.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Shouldn't you know? I shouldn't have done this. I'm going
to try to do better in the future. And most
of them tell me if my parent did that, I
could try to have a relationship with them.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Now, I could.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Try to talk to them. But it's when a parent
says my way or the highway. I never mess up.
I'm doing my best, you know, I'm I'm not allowed
to be criticized that the child starts to really struggle
to actually connect with you in any way, especially in
adulthood and those teen years.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Oh yeah, oh gosh, the teen years especially. Yeah, you know,
I had to transition my parenting because you know, and
it kind of strangely happens overnight where your parenting kind
of a toddler, you know, teenager, but kind of thirteen
and then twelve thirteen, and all of a sudden, like
fourteen fifteen, I'm like, oh shit, wait a minute, hold on, like,
(33:43):
put the brakes on. I have to switch it up
a little bit here, you know, because this little dude
is becoming not such a little dude anymore. His brain
is developing a little bit. I have to sort of
respect his respect him just a little bit more as
far as his own opinions go. And there was a
shift that happened pretty abruptly for me. It wasn't gradual.
(34:05):
I was like, whoa, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
But that shift is so important, And I think for
anyone listening to this right now, like you can probably think,
if you don't have a great relationship with your parent,
maybe think about, like, is there a shift that they
didn't make at some point in our relationship? Because I
do hear that a lot as well as like my
parent loved me when I was five, but they could
not find a way to relate to me as I
(34:29):
got older and voiced my own opinions and I wanted
their respect. And so you saying like you made that
transition for your son to me is a sign that
you're saying, how can I show up as the best
parent for you, not just like the kind of parent
that feels good to me. And you have to make
those transitions if you want to have a lifelong relationship
(34:49):
with your child.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, And it's hard because you also you want a
parent and at the same time, you want to let
them have their own sort of ideas about the world,
and you want them to screw up. Because if we're
sheltering our kids too much, which I believe we are,
I think there's no more grit. I think we have
(35:12):
coddled the grit out of our children, you know, to
some extent. I'm not saying everyone, but just broadly, I guess.
You know, my wife and I have issues about that
stuff because I'm less fearful than she is, you know
what I mean. I let them go do their thing.
They're either they're motorcycles or e bikes or this whatever
they've got around la. You know, I mean, they're not reckless.
(35:34):
I'm not putting them in any sort of danger or
I'm not. But they need to go out and experience
these things, you know, otherwise who are they going to be?
You know? Of course social media is like the devil,
(35:55):
you know, we hear it all the time. There are
positive things and extremely negative things. Either way, it's it
is where we are and it's the future. So there
is no denying it, you know what I mean, It's
not going to go away. It's only going to get
more crazy. So how much do we rail against it
(36:16):
or how much do we need to integrated into sort
of our children, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
It's really tough. And I feel for parents. You know,
you've got you have older kids that if I would
have had kids, you know, ten fifteen years ago, I
probably would have given them social media a lot more
quickly than I would today, knowing what I know now.
And so I think there are a lot of parents
who are kind of saying, well, how do I backtrack
(36:47):
on this? Based on what I've already given them, what
their friends have access to. It's a tall order For
me personally, I don't feel like I feel comfortable with
my kids having access to it before sixteen, Like that's
kind of my marker for me on from what I
know about it.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I have sons.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
If I had daughters, I also might take a little
bit different of an approach, just because I think it
has a different impact on them sometimes. But I do
feel that saying it's all bad to your kids isn't
a great approach.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
You have to teach them how to live in a
world where it.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Exists, but also helping them do it safely, I think
is our job as parents.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
But don't you think it's a case by case meaning, Like,
and I'm only speaking from my own perspective. All three
of my kids are on social media. They don't have guardrails,
there's no boundaries, they don't put things on their phone,
you know. And I'm saying, my daughter's eleven and she's
not public, but she can look at TikTok. But she's
not like people aren't, you know what I mean? But
(37:48):
she can look at it now whether in twenty years,
all of a sudden they're all psychos and serial killers.
And then I fucked up big time remains to be seen.
But they're all such great kids totally, and they go
outside and Rio dances five times a week and she
plays volleyball and basketball, and my kids are, you know,
(38:09):
big skiers and all this balance for me is really
where it's at. If I saw one of them really
falling into sort of a hole where I didn't like it,
then okay, But I'm like, they're pretty good kids, So
is it case by case?
Speaker 4 (38:24):
So I think what you're speaking to is that for
your kids, you feel like social media has not taken
over their lives them having access to it, they have
enough of a balance and enough of a feeling of like,
I enjoy all this other stuff in my life that
I'm not going to let that take over. And so
that works one hundred percent in that specific case. I
(38:44):
think what is unfortunately happening with a lot of kids
is that if they get on there too early and
there's nothing to balance it out and there is no
conversation about what should be happening, or if you have
a parent who is always on their phone, always on
social media, modeling isn't happening, you're going to have different risks.
So of course it's never an across the board thing.
(39:07):
It's more just about how do you want to handle
it in your head? What do you feel equipped to
fight against, you know, and how have you raised your
kids up to that point also plays.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
A role in it.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, what do you think about sort of not just
with social media, but sugar and everything else where you
hold off on it so much so that it becomes
an obsession, which I've seen with certain kids where because
they can't have it, it's all they want and it's
an obsession, you know what I'm saying, where it becomes
kind of an unhealthy thing.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
I'm more of like an intuitive eater type of proponent,
where I think that the more my kids have access
to things openly and I talk to them about how
this is going to make your stomach hurt if you
eat it all the time, let them try it out,
see that they get a stomach ache. My three year
old can be given I've taken that purchase his birth
and he really can be given like a cupcake, take
(40:02):
a bite and say I'm full and put it away,
you know. And instead of having kids who I think
do go to a birthday party and that's the only
time they get to have it and they go nuts.
Obviously that could be personality temperament based too, but that's
what I found has worked best for me personally.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I was just talking actually like a half hour ago.
I've been doing the Drew Barrymore Show a bunch and
it's like sort of a you know, the guest that
just comes in and talks about relationships and love and
sex and life and audience questions, and you know, it's
been really really fun from sort of a straight male perspective.
(40:40):
That's what Drew wanted, you know, Okay, And I'm very
unfiltered and very candid and just speak to sort of
how I do things, and you know, you're there and
you give advice based on absolutely no training, just on
you know, years of therapy and just self analysis and
whatever my views might be. And I always find myself
(41:02):
sort of giving a cool piece of advice in my
house good and I don't follow half the fucking things
that I say. You know, it's unbelievable to me where
I'm like, man, if I just followed my own advice,
things would be pretty fucking great. As a therapist, I mean,
do you deal with that shit where you're just like,
why don't I listen to myself. I'm telling I'm telling
(41:24):
Bob here this and how I need to do this myself.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Yeah, you know, I do have a pretty strong value
that I operate from that I'm not going to tell
people to do things that I that I'm not willing
to do myself, or that I haven't tried to do myself.
I of course, I'm a human being that goes through
stages where I do not live in accordance with my advice.
But I would say, for the most part, like things
(41:51):
that I tell people to do are things that I
think I should be doing as well, and that I'm
trying actively to do.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Mm hmm. Yeah. Now it's the human aspect of it
that's always nice, you know. Yeah. I used to have
a therapist for years who was awesome, and it was
in person, obviously, and I was going through a bunch
of shit. And sometimes it wasn't active therapy. It wasn't CBE,
(42:20):
it wasn't cognit behavioral therapy, which I'm in now and
love it. It's my favorite. It's just very active, you
know what I mean. This was not that, And he
would sometimes just sit there and here it's like mustache.
He would just stare at me, would not break eye contact,
and I'd be looking I was in there for years
(42:40):
and he'd just be looking at me, and I wasn't talking,
you know, exc had nothing to say in that moment,
and he just look at me and finally be like,
what are you doing? You know, he's like holding our space,
like very casual. I'm like, whoaw, just I was like,
this is intense. Man like say something.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
That's really intense. I can say I have never done that.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
It's not my style, but I will say I admired.
I admired his inability to sort of blink and his
just just security in himself. I wouldn't I get all squirmy.
He was just casually kind of sitting there. Amazing. No,
(43:24):
it was. And then what about last one? Your husband
married to a therapist? Does that ever come into play?
If we were married, I'd be fucking with you probably
all the time about like are you judging me? Are
you analyzing me? Can I do anything without you judging me?
Speaker 3 (43:46):
You know that doesn't come up a lot in my marriage.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
What does happen is my husband just like steals my
lines that I say and uses them, like when we're
out with other people, Like I'll be sharing something.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
He's like, you know, we'll say this.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Profound sounding thing, and I'm like, you took that from me,
you know, just act like you know he made it up.
That's like a running joke that he's he therapizes his
friends or other people using Michael.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
That's funny. I love that. Well, this has been so
fun and check out say it again. The group thing
is I'm going to.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
It is calling Home and you can find us at
calling Home dot co.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that.
That would be I would love to just even be
well as you can see how much I talk, I'd
probably be talking about that's when they fly on the wall.
But like I'm sure raising my hand, Whitni, thank you
so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Thank you. Thanks for having me all right?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Cool? See yeah Whitney. Yeah, doing good things for the
world as am I? No, I'm not, I could I
am I'm making people laugh, am I? I don't know has
anyone told me I'm making people laugh? Do I think
people are laughing and they're really laughing at me, not
with me? M M Whitney. I need a session, all right,
(45:12):
Oliver Hudson out.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling. Railvalry.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No, no, sibling, don't do that with your mouth, revelry.
That's good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Oliver Hudson here check check test test, reporting live from Toronto, Canada.
I am here in my bedroom and my son is upstairs.
We are doing a movie together. It's an experience that
has yet to start, really and once it does, I
(00:58):
can't wait. I'm afraid. But but I'm not going to
get into that right now because we've had our guests
waiting for a minute. In the waiting minute, Whitney Goodman,
we need to bring her on because we need to
deal with my trauma and my child issues, because I've
I have many of them. Hello, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm good, I'm so sorry. I'm late, I've been I've
been nutty. I'm in I'm in Toronto and uh starting work.
I'm doing a movie. My son auditioned five separate times
got the job. So he's here with me playing my son,
(01:39):
which to me is going to be incredible. But you
can tell me whether he'll be traumatized from this experience.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It sounds like it could be a great experience.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
It could go either way. I mean, it could go
either way. But you know, it's definitely an incredible moment
for me to watch. Yeah, this happened, and he's never
done anything before, and it's it's a it's a substantial role.
I mean, I'm freaked out more than he is. I'm
sure it's awesome. So it's just been running around and
(02:13):
figuring out and he's got guardians and tutors and you know,
it's a whole world.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
It's wild. Yeah, absolutely, it is.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
It is. Where are you?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I live in Tampa, Florida.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Mm hmm okay, a little bit different in Toronto for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
For sure.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
It has been cold here for us. It's been like
forties forties, pretty crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I mean that is cold. I mean there was snow
on the beach. Yeah, I know was that in Tampa.
Was on the east.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
The west coast, the Panhandle, so probably like five or
six hours north of me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Okay, so you're not getting snow. You're not getting snow,
no no, no, no, no, you move if you if.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
You got.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Before we get into all of the questions that I
have as to why I am as fucked up as
I am. Although I've been in therapy for a thousand years,
I went to the Hoffman process to deal with childhood patterns,
and you know, it was an incredible seven days, you know,
definitely life changing for me. But just a little bit
(03:17):
about you, sort of where you grew up, where you
grew up, how you got into this line of work,
and what's inspiring you know about it for you Because
for me, quickly, I'm an actor, you know. But if
I wasn't, I feel like I would be a psychologist.
I just am semi obsessed with the human condition, the
(03:40):
fact that we're all made up of the same shit,
yet we're all so vastly different. I've been through anxiety,
I'm on lexapro, you know, I dealt with feelings. I'm
very you know, sort of self reflective. And at the
same time, this whole planet's going to be a big
ball of fire at some point, civilization as we know
(04:03):
it will no longer exist. So what are we concerned
about at the end of the day. What does it
all matter? Anyway? You know? So where did you Where
did you Where did you, where did you grow up,
and how did you find your way to what you do.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, I'm born and raised in Florida.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I left for college and came back, but otherwise I've
been in some city in this state for majority of
my life, and I can very much relate to you
that I have just always been obsessed with why people
do what they do, whether that's my own family members.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Or strangers that I meet.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
I find stories about humans to be fascinating, which I
imagine is also a huge part of acting, of getting
to kind of embody someone else's experience. That that fascination
really just led me to this career. I've been practicing
as a therapist for a decade now. I cannot imagine
(05:02):
doing anything else, and learning about how people's family experiences
have impacted them is a huge interest to me. I
think it's really what makes us who we are at
the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Did you have any doubt that this was the avenue
of therapy of psychology that you wanted to get into,
or did you kind of play around with maybe this
maybe that, or was this your main focus?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
You know, everything I've done has always gone back to
the family. I've worked with people in addiction treatment centers,
doing family therapy. I worked with people who had chronic illness,
cancer diagnoses, things like that, But I've always worked with
how those difficult life events have impacted the family structure
and those relationships, and I think everything kind of comes
(05:52):
back to that at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So true, I mean, you know, it's like the root
of everything is family, the way that you were brought up,
the perception, the singular perception of how we were brought
up as well, because dealing with siblings as we have
for however many years we've been doing this podcast, you know,
(06:16):
Kate and I realized that you could be raised the same,
but our perception of how we are raised is vastly different.
I mean, we've talked to brothers who one brother like
despise their father and the other one loved him tremendously.
They were raised exactly the same, you know, So how
much does that factor into sort of the way that
(06:38):
you work, because I mean, perception is everything. Maybe it's incorrect.
Do you sometimes have to sort of skew people's perception
or put it back on track to say, well, you're
seeing this maybe in a way that isn't truthful or
that didn't actually happen.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Yeah, sibling relationships are fascinating. In a work a lot
with adult siblings who do have very different perceptions of
their childhood, and usually I find that those perceptions are
often both correct in different ways at the same time. Right,
because we have different personalities, we're different ages when events happen.
(07:17):
We also have profoundly different relationships with our parents based
on how they are responding to us because of what
we're triggering in them. Right, So you're going to see
things like gender, personality, birth order, the circumstances surrounding how
you came into the world all impact the way that
your parents relate to you. And what we find through
(07:39):
the research on sibling relationships is that the way that
the parents treat the children often is the biggest impact
on how those siblings relate to each other and how
they see themselves within that relationship.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Oh wow, so it even affects on it even affects
how the siblings view each other.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Totally, because that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
You're competing, right for your parents' time, energy resources, and
you you sometimes do see your sibling as competition for
that finite resource.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Of course, I mean, I think that's primal. You know,
at the end of the day, I mean there is
there's survival, there are survival mechanisms that still exist within
us that are unconscious. I assume you know that sort
of that that primal nature that we are, and there's
no doubt competition. I always joke with my sister, I'm like,
you have me to thank for your fame and success
(08:35):
because I was always the one who is like, loved,
the most perceptive, the perspective, the perception of that it
was that and Kate had to vie for attention, which
means that she had to sort of, you know, get
out there and show the world that she was bigger
and better and more famous. So I joke with her that,
you know, she definitely has me to thank and it
(08:56):
still exists today. You know, she still thinks, oh, olive
us the favorite and he's the one who's coddled, and
she may or may not be right or I don't know,
it's upper interpretation, but yeah, I know it's definitely. It's fascinating.
Step Now, did you first of all, do you have siblings?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yes, I am the oldest of three, Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And how much of your own dynamic that you grew
up with with your parents, with with your relationship with
your siblings. How much does that play into sort of
your practice. How influential is that in what you wanted
to do, the avenue, the direction, but also sort of
how you went about sort of helping other people, how
(09:40):
you go about helping other people.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah, you know, I think I'm one of those therapists
where my personal story is not at the forefront of
my clinical work. I can certainly say, of course, in
my family, I've had, you know, estrangement and mental health
issues and chronic illness and all of these things that
I think you can find in most families. But my
personal story is not what really drives my work. I
(10:04):
find it coming up absolutely where I'm like, oh wow,
I've experienced that. And you have to constantly check in
and be doing your own work with your own therapist
to make sure that your story isn't totally getting in
the way of what's going on between you and the client.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Do you have to have your own therapist? Is that?
Is that a law?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It's a requirement for most grad schools. I know when
I went to grad school, you know, like twelve years ago,
it was required, and now I do have my own therapist.
I find it to be very helpful.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's so interesting when you really think about it, you know,
because if your therapist having therapy, you're like challenge your
therapists with your own set of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I was like, what are you talking about? Like, don't
don't try to fuck with me, don't try to fool me.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Right right, Yeah, my therapist'll be like, well, I'm sure
you've heard what I'm going to say before.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It's yeah. So do you have breakthroughs as a therapist
in therapy?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Oh? Totally, totally.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
I mean life is always happening, right, and so there's
certainly things that I'm experiencing now that I could have
never predicted would have been part of my life. And
they're not situations that would have normally been triggering for
me as a therapist. You know, when I became a mother,
that was something I had to work on to make
sure that I wasn't carrying any of my.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Own stuff into those sessions.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Do you as a therapist do you have to have
lack and this sounds a little bit crazy, but lack
of empathy only because I'm a very empathetic person. Very feely,
to the point where I think it can be destructive
at times, you know what I mean, where I've taken
a lot of other people's feelings, I guess, and I
know that's sort of buzzy right now, like an EmPATH
(11:56):
and all that shit, But I feel it, you know,
I can feel it. As a therapist, you kind of
have to hear and let go.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Totally.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I think every new therapist goes through that battle of
like taking on too much, right, especially if you are
someone that is that way. And I actually found myself
like swinging a little bit too far to the other
extreme of being like too disconnected. And over the last
couple of years, especially with virtual therapy, it's easier to disconnect,
(12:28):
like you're not feeling it the same way that you
do when you're actually in a room with somebody's energy. Yeah,
that you have to make sure you don't go too
far in one extreme.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, Oh that's interesting. Now, by the way, how much
of your work is being done actually digitally now?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Literally one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I closed my office during the pandemic, and no one
ever wanted to go back to being face to face.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
See, this is fucked up, in my opinion, look, you know,
I know there's like all these you know, better help
and there's all these sort of and I think it's
great because we are actually actually making a dent in
mental health in one way or another. I love that.
And if it has to be done, you know, digitally,
and that's the only way people will do it, great,
it's better than nothing. But in person you cannot beat it.
(13:14):
You just can't beat it. You know, you can't beat
a podcast in person too. And this whole thing has
gone away. It's made it easier, it's made it great.
I get to meet you, we get to talk and
sort of get to learn about each other a little bit.
But when we were doing it in person, and I
just did one in person the other day, it just
feels so much better. That energy is so real.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
It's different.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, it's different. It's different. I mean, do you double
edged about it. You get to be sort of at home,
you get to do your thing, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
A lot of the work that I do now is
mostly groups, and so that is a really cool thing
that I'm able to do.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Virtually with a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
And I do think it makes people feel safer to
be in a group environment, like that, but when it
comes to the one on one like seeing individual clients,
I feel mixed about it. I think it's great for
some people, like you said, it's the only way they'd
get to therapy, is it being that way? But other
times I do think some people could benefit more from
(14:20):
being in person. I used to do a lot of
like couples and family work, and I cannot do that
virtually because of the talking over and stuff that I
had to totally stop.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's especially with the delay a little slight delays and
everyone's like screaming, way, you're the fucking thing.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Okay, hold on, Yeah, yeah, it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So talk about this, the group stuff that you do. Yeah,
what is that? I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
So I run a program I'm called Calling Home where
we help adults build better adult family relationships.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
And I run a lot of different groups.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
We have groups for adults who are estranged from their parents,
family estrangement groups, so anyone dealing with estrangement. We have
groups for adults with difficult mothers. And really it's just
like adults from around the country getting together to find
community around some of these issues, share advice, experiences, etc.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So how many people are in the group.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Usually between thirty and forty per group.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Oh this is cool, Oh this is interesting. Okay, so
give me the logistics of this. So if I wanted
to be a part of a group of X, there's
a way to go to a website and sign up
for it and all that.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
Yes, so you go to callinghome dot co. You can
sign up and then we offer right now about eight
to ten groups per month. We're currently hiring more people.
Then you can sign up for group attend virtually. You
can attend as many groups as you'd like in a month.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And is it a listening type of a group with
forty people? Like how do you how is one able
to speak? And who's moderating? Is it like one therapist?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Yeah, so I run a lot of the groups, and
then we have two other therapists. They're run all by
a licensed clinician. We bring discussion questions to the group.
People can raise their hand. We call on them in
a new order that their hands are raised to speak.
It's a very controlled environment and you can come just
to listen if.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
That feels better to you that day as well.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, so you're not being called upon. If you want
to share, then you share exactly. So you, the therapist,
will lead the group and let's say, you know, adults
who have issues with their mother, and you will sort
of give an intro and go into sort of some
of the issues, just the universal general sort of issues,
and then open it up.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yep. Yeah, we usually have about like three to five
I have specific things we want to talk about that
day in the group that I think are going to
be issues for most people there, and then people will
respond to the discussion questions or if they have just
a problem that's coming up that week between them and
their mom, they can also ask for advice or input
from the group.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I really like this. Now, is this something that's been
done for you know, a while, Like I've never heard
of anything like this, or is there are you pioneering this?
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Yeah, it's we started November of twenty twenty three, so
relatively very new.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Here's what I love about it. I love that there's
nothing is a quick fix. But we all do need advice,
and sometimes we have great friends to go for for advice, family,
et cetera. Sometimes we don't want to talk to those people.
Sometimes we just want an anonymous face or someone we
(17:54):
don't know, and you know, me sort of growing up
with whatever mental issues that I have as far as
my anxiety goes, and you know, cerebrally, I understand that
millions of people are going through the same thing. But
when you actually can relate and connect with someone who
is feeling that same way, there's a comfort in it.
(18:15):
Oh yeah, And so you don't have to sort of
spend you know, years of therapy, years of years of therapy,
and spend a ton of money to sort of maybe
get some really sound advice that could change the way
that you go about your life. You know, I think
that's pretty awesome. That's pretty great.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
I've seen it have such a profound impact on the
people that come. I think for me as a therapist,
what I noticed was exactly what you're saying. I'm working
with these individuals, and all they keep saying is I'm
the only one going through this. Nobody's family is as
messed up as mine. Nobody else is dealing with X issue.
And I just kept being like, oh, I wish I
could get you guys all to hang out in a
(18:55):
room together, and you really can't do that as a therapist,
at least not legally. So it was really born out
of that need to try to create a community for
those people.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
And you're seeing a need meaning like the classes are
filled up.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yes, we have helped around like two thousand people at
this point in Our groups are always full every single week.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's so great doing give me, give me some topics,
like just for fun? What are some of the topics?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
So we dive into a different topic every month. I
calling home.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Next month we're doing like the impact of your family
relationships or family dysfunction on your romantic relationships. This month
we talked all about emotional maturity, dealing with emotionally immature
family members, done mother daughter stuff, adult sibling stuff. That's
one of our most popular topics of all time was
adult sibling relationship. Really, yes, I was very I shouldn't
(19:51):
have been surprised, but I was surprised by that.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
What did you What was the takeaway from that sort
of you know, class symposium, you know, whatever you want
to call it. What for you what surprised you the most?
What actually what was it that you sort of like,
oh my god, yes the research has shown and it's
being reflected back to me. And then what were the
big surprises of the adult.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Sibling So there's not a ton of research on adult
sibling relationships. There's like two people out there, you know,
doing research on that. And I think I knew a
lot about young siblings, but not as much about as
people age. And I was surprised how many people feel
like there's something wrong with them if they can't get
along with their sibling, and that there's really this societal
(20:36):
expectation that we will have these long lasting, lifelong relationships
with our siblings, and a lot of those relationships are
you just got lucky if you get along with your sibling,
you know, it's it's just chance. And so most of
the people were coming to the groups being like, I
feel so bad that I don't like.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
This guy that is my brother.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
You know, we're so different in all these ways, and
I think just take away that shame. Also the impact
that parents were having on these relationships, you know, by
getting them to compete with one another, drawing comparisons, meddling
in the relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
That was a big thing.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Mm hmmm. No, I know, it's so interesting because I
have three kids. Inherently there's always competitions we talked about
between siblings, it's normal. At what point do you just
let that happen, you know, because it's it's it's nature. Obviously,
(21:33):
you don't want them knifing each other in their jugulars, right,
And at what point do you sort of step in
and say, hey, you know what, like this is this
is the only person that you're going to have in
your life, you know what I mean? Like you need
to love your sibling, you know? Is that is that
a is that essentially a bad thing to do, is
to tell someone that you have to love someone.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
I think from what I hear on the other side
of adults who are having these issues, it's more about
the parent, like allowing all of the siblings to be
their own person, not making one version of a child
better than the other, and encouraging them to find ways
to problem solve with one another at the ability which
(22:16):
they're able, you know, at their age. There's some adults
that come to these groups and they're like, my parents
never intervened. They would let my brother who was bigger
than me, stronger than me, beat me up all the time,
and they never stepped in.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
And that's not right.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
And then you have this other extreme, of course, where
it's like you are interfering all the time, only protecting
one child over the other. And I feel like there's
a good happy medium there from what I can tell.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, I mean there's such a fine line, there's such
a balance. No one does it right. Let's be fucking honest.
I always say this, I've said this a million times.
And tell me if you agree with this. It's not
about if you fuck up your children. It's just to
what degree?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Totally?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
And can you be accountable and apologize and recognize the
ways in which you influenced them negatively?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
You know, influenced negatively. That's you, not saying.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
That's my therapist speak.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
So then talk about a little again. I told you
went to the Hoffman process. You know what that is.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
I'm not familiar with that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Actually, Okay, yes, it's it's kind of West Coast. But
it's the risk of sounding like an asshole. I mean,
it's it's been around for sixty years. A guy named
Bob Hoffman created it, and it's this amalgamation that's meshing,
this smashing together of all different kinds of therapies, all
different kinds of spiritualities. And it was an experiment basically
(23:48):
in the beginning, and it has evolved into a process,
and it's become sort of hip in the last like seven, eight, nine,
ten years, where there's like a ton of celebrities, you know,
gone to the Hoffmann process, you know, and you know,
I'm just always dealing with childhood issues. Dad kind of
bailed when I was a kid. Their self esteem stuff here,
(24:10):
you know, all the stuff, all the one oh one
that you would probably you know, put on me is true, right,
And I've seen it affect my life. I'm very hyper
aware of myself. I know that there's I have compulsivity,
of impulsivity, there's certain things that I wish I could
control better. Just always on the search, you know what
(24:33):
I mean. Like, I'm not okay just being the worst
part of myself. I'm okay having a bad part because
we all do, but I'm not okay living in it.
And I went to this process and without getting into
the whole things I've already done and I've already talked
about on this podcast before, but it's diving into childhood patterns.
(24:55):
It's this idea that we have negative love patterns as well,
because when we're born, we need love to survive essentially,
and whether that's positive love or negative love, we will
attach ourselves even to the negative stuff, at which point
then we begin to act out these patterns unconsciously, you know,
(25:16):
and then it goes into sort of you know, you
recognize it, but there's a lot of self forgiveness, forgiveness
of your parents because if you go back into their lives,
you can sort of see the pattern that it happened
from their parents and how it's kind of been passed down,
which was the case with my father like tremendously. And
(25:38):
then it's just kind of diving into compassion and forgiveness
and exposing yourself through all of these different methods that
some you just are like what am I doing right now?
And for me personally, it was about surrender because you
(25:59):
go in there and there's forty people and it's a
week long, and you have your small groups as well,
but you do most of the work within the big group,
and you know, they're all going nuts. They're beating on
a pillow with a whiffootball bat or whatever they're doing.
It's their mother, and you're like, what the fuck is happening?
You know, I feel like an idiot doing this? But
why do I feel like an idiot? You know? Which
(26:20):
is part of my issue as well. So it's about
surrendering to the process. And once I did and had
a crazy breakdown slash breakthrough, it was easier, you know,
and it was incredible. And not to say that you
don't go back to certain things because we're human and
within the process at the end, they say, this is
not like a pill that's going to fix your life.
(26:42):
We're hopefully giving you some tools to deal with shit.
But I will say that in that first week the honeymoon,
it's the most incredible feeling that I've ever had. And
I'm I'm a skeptical person. I'm not cynical. I'm just skeptical,
you know. I want to see it and feel it.
I'm not just going to sort of oh my God
(27:03):
and dive into some sort of spiritual practice like I'm in.
I want to have that proof, you know what I mean.
And I felt psychic, honestly. I was seeing the world differently.
It was sparkling. I had this weight that had been
lifted off of me, this gunk that had been scraped
from the inner recesses of every piece of my body
(27:25):
that have been sticking to the rib cage. And not
to say that it doesn't build back up. But within
that week I felt my full potential as Oliver Hudson
as a human being, the full potential of what it
could be impossible to live in that moment because it's
too glorious, you know. So anyway, all that to say,
(27:50):
that's kind of what the process is. But it's dealing
with childhood patterns. And I guess the big roundabout way
the question is, you know, how much have you looked
into that? How much does that matter, you know, sort
of in raising your kids, whether you are imprinting these
positive and negative patterns on them, you know, and when
(28:11):
that starts, and how how detrimental that might be to
sort of who they are and how they grow up.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I mean, being aware of those patterns is so important, right,
And you're speaking to that that, Like, I had this
huge awakening and understanding of myself from working through all
of that, and I think we can't understate like how
impactful that can be on you.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And so I find now that we have a lot
of you know, especially like millennial parents are really into
all this stuff. You can get almost too afraid of
messing up your kids, yes, you know, And I find
myself falling into that. You know, I have two kids,
and I'm like, I'm a therapist.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I deal. I'm listening to people whose parents have destroyed
them every day and I'm like, oh my god, what
am I going to do my kids?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Like that's so interesting. Oh you get to hear all
the horror stories and yeah, now you're old. Are your kids?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
I have a seven month old and a three and
a half year old.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Okay, so you got babies, and they'say, oh yeah, you're
a therapist. Now you're hearing all these horror stories. You're like, Okay,
this is what not to do, what not to do?
Maybe all right?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Right?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And it's like, you know, I'm out here talking about
all this stuff. My kids are going to be able
to like play this back one day and be like.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Mom, what do you do at home? You know, I
have to really walk the walk here.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
And that can be scary too, right, that we put
this pressure on ourselves, that there's this fine line between
like holding yourself accountable and saying I can really do
some damage to my kids, and also like life is
going to happen, and some things are going to happen
that are totally out of my control. That are going
(29:51):
to negatively impact my kids. And that's where, like we
kind of touched on this earlier. I think that being
aware of that and being able to repair and wreck,
recognize and look at your kids and say that was hard,
that was shitty for you to go to I wish
that didn't happen, is more powerful than anything, because we're
all going to mess up, myself included. Yeah, and have
(30:13):
our kids sitting on a therapist couch telling them about
something from their life.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You know, no one's immune from that.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
And I think expecting yourself to be as a parent
is where you set yourself up for failure a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I think that's a great a great lesson, which is
you don't don't try so hard to be perfect because
it doesn't exist. You know. You have to rely on
your instincts, I believe, and then of course take lessons
from people you respect, you know, and then communicate, you know.
And it's not just communicating to your child about how
(30:48):
they must feel or how I think it's communicating too,
how you feel as the parent and how you might
fuck up. I actually had a moment with my oldest
you know, who's now a teen. I forget how old
he was then, but he was fucking up doing something.
I don't remember what it was, you know, And I
(31:08):
have I have, you know, snapped at times where I
realized I was in the wrong, and I, you know,
nerves get frayed as a parent, you know what I mean,
Like you do, and you say things too quickly and
sometimes you don't think them through and I apologize, you know,
I'm like, hey, man, sorry, Like that's on me. I
screwed that one up. And then in this specific instance,
(31:31):
I said, you're the first kid you're going to screw up.
But guess who else is me? Because I don't know
what I'm doing. Body and rio my other two they're
going to benefit from this because I'm learning. So I'm
going to cut you a little slack, but you got
to cut me a little slack too, because just as
you're going through puberty and you're figuring shit out, I'm
(31:53):
going through adult puberty. You know, I'm trying to figure
out how to raise a teenager. I have no fucking idea, right,
I'm just going off of my own instincts and trying
not to be a hypocrite. Knowing who I was as
a kid and understanding that part too. Yeah, not condoning
it because I did some crazy, crazy things, but at
(32:15):
least understanding it, you.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Know, totally.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
I think what's so beautiful about the story you shares
like you're saying, Look, I'm human, you're human. It's my
job to lead here because I'm the parents. So I'm
going to take accountability when I mess up, and I'm
also holding you to a standard that I think you
can reach as my kid, and an expectation that I have.
And you know, the number one thing that I hear
(32:41):
from adults who have bad relationships with their parents is
that they wish that their parents could just do that right,
just show up and say.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Hey, I messed up. Shouldn't have reacted that way.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Shouldn't you know? I shouldn't have done this. I'm going
to try to do better in the future. And most
of them tell me if my parent did that, I
could try to have a relationship with them.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Now, I could.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Try to talk to them. But it's when a parent
says my way or the highway. I never mess up.
I'm doing my best, you know, I'm I'm not allowed
to be criticized that the child starts to really struggle
to actually connect with you in any way, especially in
adulthood and those teen years.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Oh yeah, oh gosh, the teen years especially. Yeah, you know,
I had to transition my parenting because you know, and
it kind of strangely happens overnight where your parenting kind
of a toddler, you know, teenager, but kind of thirteen
and then twelve thirteen, and all of a sudden, like
fourteen fifteen, I'm like, oh shit, wait a minute, hold on, like,
(33:43):
put the brakes on. I have to switch it up
a little bit here, you know, because this little dude
is becoming not such a little dude anymore. His brain
is developing a little bit. I have to sort of
respect his respect him just a little bit more as
far as his own opinions go. And there was a
shift that happened pretty abruptly for me. It wasn't gradual.
(34:05):
I was like, whoa, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
But that shift is so important, And I think for
anyone listening to this right now, like you can probably think,
if you don't have a great relationship with your parent,
maybe think about, like, is there a shift that they
didn't make at some point in our relationship? Because I
do hear that a lot as well as like my
parent loved me when I was five, but they could
not find a way to relate to me as I
(34:29):
got older and voiced my own opinions and I wanted
their respect. And so you saying like you made that
transition for your son to me is a sign that
you're saying, how can I show up as the best
parent for you, not just like the kind of parent
that feels good to me. And you have to make
those transitions if you want to have a lifelong relationship
(34:49):
with your child.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, And it's hard because you also you want a
parent and at the same time, you want to let
them have their own sort of ideas about the world,
and you want them to screw up. Because if we're
sheltering our kids too much, which I believe we are,
I think there's no more grit. I think we have
(35:12):
coddled the grit out of our children, you know, to
some extent. I'm not saying everyone, but just broadly, I guess.
You know, my wife and I have issues about that
stuff because I'm less fearful than she is, you know
what I mean. I let them go do their thing.
They're either they're motorcycles or e bikes or this whatever
they've got around la. You know, I mean, they're not reckless.
(35:34):
I'm not putting them in any sort of danger or
I'm not. But they need to go out and experience
these things, you know, otherwise who are they going to be?
You know? Of course social media is like the devil,
(35:55):
you know, we hear it all the time. There are
positive things and extremely negative things. Either way, it's it
is where we are and it's the future. So there
is no denying it, you know what I mean, It's
not going to go away. It's only going to get
more crazy. So how much do we rail against it
(36:16):
or how much do we need to integrated into sort
of our children, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's
a tough one.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
It's really tough. And I feel for parents. You know,
you've got you have older kids that if I would
have had kids, you know, ten fifteen years ago, I
probably would have given them social media a lot more
quickly than I would today, knowing what I know now.
And so I think there are a lot of parents
who are kind of saying, well, how do I backtrack
(36:47):
on this? Based on what I've already given them, what
their friends have access to. It's a tall order For
me personally, I don't feel like I feel comfortable with
my kids having access to it before sixteen, Like that's
kind of my marker for me on from what I
know about it.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I have sons.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
If I had daughters, I also might take a little
bit different of an approach, just because I think it
has a different impact on them sometimes. But I do
feel that saying it's all bad to your kids isn't
a great approach.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
You have to teach them how to live in a
world where it.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Exists, but also helping them do it safely, I think
is our job as parents.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
But don't you think it's a case by case meaning, Like,
and I'm only speaking from my own perspective. All three
of my kids are on social media. They don't have guardrails,
there's no boundaries, they don't put things on their phone,
you know. And I'm saying, my daughter's eleven and she's
not public, but she can look at TikTok. But she's
not like people aren't, you know what I mean? But
(37:48):
she can look at it now whether in twenty years,
all of a sudden they're all psychos and serial killers.
And then I fucked up big time remains to be seen.
But they're all such great kids totally, and they go
outside and Rio dances five times a week and she
plays volleyball and basketball, and my kids are, you know,
(38:09):
big skiers and all this balance for me is really
where it's at. If I saw one of them really
falling into sort of a hole where I didn't like it,
then okay, But I'm like, they're pretty good kids, So
is it case by case?
Speaker 4 (38:24):
So I think what you're speaking to is that for
your kids, you feel like social media has not taken
over their lives them having access to it, they have
enough of a balance and enough of a feeling of like,
I enjoy all this other stuff in my life that
I'm not going to let that take over. And so
that works one hundred percent in that specific case. I
(38:44):
think what is unfortunately happening with a lot of kids
is that if they get on there too early and
there's nothing to balance it out and there is no
conversation about what should be happening, or if you have
a parent who is always on their phone, always on
social media, modeling isn't happening, you're going to have different risks.
So of course it's never an across the board thing.
(39:07):
It's more just about how do you want to handle
it in your head? What do you feel equipped to
fight against, you know, and how have you raised your
kids up to that point also plays.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
A role in it.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, what do you think about sort of not just
with social media, but sugar and everything else where you
hold off on it so much so that it becomes
an obsession, which I've seen with certain kids where because
they can't have it, it's all they want and it's
an obsession, you know what I'm saying, where it becomes
kind of an unhealthy thing.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
I'm more of like an intuitive eater type of proponent,
where I think that the more my kids have access
to things openly and I talk to them about how
this is going to make your stomach hurt if you
eat it all the time, let them try it out,
see that they get a stomach ache. My three year
old can be given I've taken that purchase his birth
and he really can be given like a cupcake, take
(40:02):
a bite and say I'm full and put it away,
you know. And instead of having kids who I think
do go to a birthday party and that's the only
time they get to have it and they go nuts.
Obviously that could be personality temperament based too, but that's
what I found has worked best for me personally.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I was just talking actually like a half hour ago.
I've been doing the Drew Barrymore Show a bunch and
it's like sort of a you know, the guest that
just comes in and talks about relationships and love and
sex and life and audience questions, and you know, it's
been really really fun from sort of a straight male perspective.
(40:40):
That's what Drew wanted, you know, Okay, And I'm very
unfiltered and very candid and just speak to sort of
how I do things, and you know, you're there and
you give advice based on absolutely no training, just on
you know, years of therapy and just self analysis and
whatever my views might be. And I always find myself
(41:02):
sort of giving a cool piece of advice in my
house good and I don't follow half the fucking things
that I say. You know, it's unbelievable to me where
I'm like, man, if I just followed my own advice,
things would be pretty fucking great. As a therapist, I mean,
do you deal with that shit where you're just like,
why don't I listen to myself. I'm telling I'm telling
(41:24):
Bob here this and how I need to do this myself.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Yeah, you know, I do have a pretty strong value
that I operate from that I'm not going to tell
people to do things that I that I'm not willing
to do myself, or that I haven't tried to do myself.
I of course, I'm a human being that goes through
stages where I do not live in accordance with my advice.
But I would say, for the most part, like things
(41:51):
that I tell people to do are things that I
think I should be doing as well, and that I'm
trying actively to do.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Mm hmm. Yeah. Now it's the human aspect of it
that's always nice, you know. Yeah. I used to have
a therapist for years who was awesome, and it was
in person, obviously, and I was going through a bunch
of shit. And sometimes it wasn't active therapy. It wasn't CBE,
(42:20):
it wasn't cognit behavioral therapy, which I'm in now and
love it. It's my favorite. It's just very active, you
know what I mean. This was not that, And he
would sometimes just sit there and here it's like mustache.
He would just stare at me, would not break eye contact,
and I'd be looking I was in there for years
(42:40):
and he'd just be looking at me, and I wasn't talking,
you know, exc had nothing to say in that moment,
and he just look at me and finally be like,
what are you doing? You know, he's like holding our space,
like very casual. I'm like, whoaw, just I was like,
this is intense. Man like say something.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
That's really intense. I can say I have never done that.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
It's not my style, but I will say I admired.
I admired his inability to sort of blink and his
just just security in himself. I wouldn't I get all squirmy.
He was just casually kind of sitting there. Amazing. No,
(43:24):
it was. And then what about last one? Your husband
married to a therapist? Does that ever come into play?
If we were married, I'd be fucking with you probably
all the time about like are you judging me? Are
you analyzing me? Can I do anything without you judging me?
Speaker 3 (43:46):
You know that doesn't come up a lot in my marriage.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
What does happen is my husband just like steals my
lines that I say and uses them, like when we're
out with other people, Like I'll be sharing something.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
He's like, you know, we'll say this.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Profound sounding thing, and I'm like, you took that from me,
you know, just act like you know he made it up.
That's like a running joke that he's he therapizes his
friends or other people using Michael.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
That's funny. I love that. Well, this has been so
fun and check out say it again. The group thing
is I'm going to.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
It is calling Home and you can find us at
calling Home dot co.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that.
That would be I would love to just even be
well as you can see how much I talk, I'd
probably be talking about that's when they fly on the wall.
But like I'm sure raising my hand, Whitni, thank you
so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Thank you. Thanks for having me all right?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Cool? See yeah Whitney. Yeah, doing good things for the
world as am I? No, I'm not, I could I
am I'm making people laugh, am I? I don't know has
anyone told me I'm making people laugh? Do I think
people are laughing and they're really laughing at me, not
with me? M M Whitney. I need a session, all right,
(45:12):
Oliver Hudson out.
Hosts And Creators
Oliver Hudson
Kate Hudson
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