June 15, 2023 • 23 mins
Our co-host Ana Arana speaks with Pulitzer-prize-winning journalist Garry Pierre-Pierre, founder of the Haitian Times about the legacy of Miami radio broadcasters.
This interview is a reunion of sorts – Garry and Ana both lived in Miami in the early 1990s, when Veye Yo was active on the airwaves and in the streets, and they worked together as reporters at the Sun Sentinel.
Available to all on June 15, 2023.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This is Silenced. I'm Os Voloscian.
In this our final episode, we bring you some very
important context. My co host and collaborator Anna Arana speaks
with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Gary Pierre. Pierre, the founder
of the Haitian Times. You heard a bit from Gary
(00:34):
in the previous episode talking about the radio. Haiti founder
and journalist Jean Dominique.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Genomenick said, you know, this is not what we talked about.
This is not what the movement was supposed to be,
and so they were not gonna let him live. The
movement failed the country in some ways and they had
to get it of them.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
This interview is a reunion of swords. Gary and Anna
both lived in Miami in the early nineteen nineties when
VEO was active on the airwaves and in the streets,
and they worked together as reporters at the Sun Sentinel.
Right as the murders began, Gary returned to New York,
where he first reported at the New York Times and
(01:14):
then started his own newspaper. They had a wide ranging
conversation about the role of ethnic media Miami at the
height of the VERO years. Jean Dominique's murder and the
impact of impunity on the Haitian community. We hope you
enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So I want to welcome you Gary Pierre Pierre, who
is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and founder of The
Haitian Times, an English language publication that serves the Haitian
diaspora and is based out of New York City. Gary
is also the co founder of the Center for Community
and Ethnic Media at the City University Graduate School of Journalism.
(02:31):
And we want to thank you so much for speaking
to us.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So, you were living in Miami in the early nineteen
nineties when the murders that we investigated in our series
took place, right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I was there. Actually, I was on my way
out when coming back to New York when these murders happened.
I was not covering, but I remember those stories very well.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
What do you recall about that moment with the broadcasters,
the Creole language broadcasters.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
At that time, Anna, Miami, South Florida in general had
a very vibrant media scene and it was mostly radio.
It was an exciting place. There was revolution in the air,
if you will. There are a lot of optimism about
what Haiti could become and Miami was emerging as the
center of the dash Or community.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Did you listen to the radio stations, the Creole language
radio stations.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Absolutely, I mean everyone did. There were a source of
information for me because at the time I was covering
Haiti for the Sunset and the Aitian community as well,
So that was one of my sources. In fact, that
was my crowd source outlet. Whenever I was writing a
story about whatever the topic, I would call one of
(03:47):
the owners and say, listen, I need to talk to
people about this, that and the other. Can you have
him call me? And within seconds my phone in the
newsroom was just like flooded. People just were calling and
so I realized on them for sourcing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I was very interested in seeing this movement Verao, which
is a revolutionary movement growing in Miami at the time,
led by Father John Shrus Can you talk about that.
Did you meet Father John Ruis then and what Vereo
meant for the Miami Haitian community.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, I did meet Father God rest his soul, as
every journalist did, because he was very active and was
very somewhat militant. In fact, he had a little song
that I remember very well. He was just a gadi
makud Gadiema could veo yo that transit to look at
(04:40):
these markouts, look at these markouts, watch them, keep a
watchful eye on them. So that was what Veyo means. Basically,
it was an end time. I could pro democracy movement
born in Miami, led by father Jon Jus. I was
privy to have been part of that. I mean as
a journalist. Of course, these were young people. They were kids,
you know, they were young. Many of the members of
(05:01):
the video they were idealistic. I didn't know them personally.
But it's very important to contextualize that moment historically because
as I mentioned earlier, no one ever dreamed that something
like that could actually become a reality. We all have
given a hope that we were going to live under dictatorship.
So when you know these young people in Haiti, and
I need to underscore that it was happening in Haiti
(05:23):
and then came to the US. So it was exciting time.
And everybody you know, want to.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Change our story starts actually looking at how even right
before our stuate gets elected, how the diaspora actually helped
elect him right.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, to some extent, honesty was a movement that studied
in Haiti, and Daspo just was bored by that because
we hadn't seen any popular movements in nineteen fifty seven
fast while Papa doct Duvalier elected president and fraudulent elections
and then swiftly dissolved parliamn Neudo dar Me and declare
(06:02):
himself president for life until he died in nineteen seventy one,
and then his nineteen year old son was selected president
for life. We were all thinking that was it. Haiti
was doomed. People were not optimistic that anything, any change
would be coming, and so when the Lava Last movement
(06:23):
started was very exciting for a lot of people. It
was something that people never really dreamed of happening, and
so yes, the Daspor then became part of that movement
to help Aris did get elected.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I was also struck by the fact that they chose
to broadcast in Creole, which was a big political thing.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Right. The thing is Crele is spoken by one hundred
Percentimmati speaks Creole, and it was an abomination that the
media in Haiti was in French because most people didn't
understand French, especially if you were not educated. You didn't
go to school. And that's why Jean Dominique, who when
(07:06):
he founded Radio Haiti and Terror and he broadcast in Creole,
it was an instinct success. So the whole notion of
then having French only media was just absurd because you know,
you excluded about seventy percent of the population.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And I guess that's the purpose you divide the country exactly.
You're right, absolutely, Can you explain to us who John
Dominique was and what he was to someone like you.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Jean Dominique was a very courageous journalist and an activist
at the same time. And he was an interesting person
in many ways. Came from the middle class, upper middle class,
you know, light skin, who wanted to fight for the poor.
I mean, that's very staple of American affair. You know,
we know that the rich a lot of they become
(07:53):
a champion of the poor. That's accepting in some families,
but in Haiti that was unaccepted. He was one of
the pioneers of that. Somebody who's comfortable, is part of
the elite, but wants to work with the poor, and
he did. And so he was an agronomist and he
got killed ultimately because the lava less movement took a
dark turn and so he got swooped into.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
That this creole language broadcasters in Miami, they emulated John Dominique.
Did you see the similarities when you were reporting on
the community.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Well, it was a different environment, it was a different place. Yes,
they did try his style, which was quite effective and
mobilizing people. I mentioned earlier that those were my sources
for acquired source and they were very effective and getting
people out. There were protests every day. You have to
(08:47):
remember Miami, unlike New York, Boston and Montreal, the weather
allowed you to gather anytime it's warm. It's similar to Haiti.
And at the time you had a large population, but
a lot of them were not working. They were undocumented,
and so people just had time and they could be mobilized,
(09:09):
and they were mobilized rather frequently, and I covered many
of these protests.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Can you describe the community at the time. I mean
it kind of grew between the seventies and the eighties,
it kind of just blossomed, right.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, yeah, there was a moment where eighties you had
an influx of both people that were coming almost every day.
When the Kudatai against arist didn't happen. You had massive
in for thousands of people. I remember going to Chrome
to cover immigrants. I went to Guantanamo where there were
housed temporarily before the Clinton administrations could decide what to do.
(09:46):
It happened under Bush and then Clinton inherited that situation
as well, and so it was a huge influx and
the majority of them settled in South Florida and doubled
the community in less than five years, double the number
of Haitians and down there. And so that influx, they
(10:06):
needed social services, and we've been talking about there was
a lot of activism because there were mistreatments of Haitians
compared to Cubans, and so the community was up and
on about that. So by the time we're talking about
the murderers occurred, there was a significant group, but it
was a very poor community at the time.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
I mean, I was a guest at the fact that
this happened, and it was not just in the Haitian community,
but the fact that immigrant communities were not being treated
the same way as you know, you was born journalists
that they were killing and then nothing, nobody went after
their killers. Everything was just moving so fast, and Haiti
at that time with our steed getting deposed by the
(10:47):
military and the coup.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I mean the events that you just described really
pushed those murders to the way, way way back burner.
I mean, even the Miami Hera was not it all
that much. I don't think the Sun Sentinel did. You
were at the Sun Sentinel at the time, I believe,
and it was like it was arristed in Haiti. That
was a big story by then, So those murders were
(11:11):
not top of mind for us in the media. But
the police, you know, I don't think they ever really
seriously investigated these cases. I'm not going to accuse anybody
of anything because I don't have any proof, but it
was just never solved.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, they did get the shooters who happened to be
Haitian American or Haitian kids who had arrived also as
refugees with their parents, and that's where it stopped. One
of the big things is that we wanted to sort
of think in terms of how the lack of accountability
on those murders has continued, this whole lack of accountability
in places like in Haiti, with the murders of journalists.
(11:49):
I mean I looked at John Dominique, but there have
been dozens of other Haitian journalists who've been killed in
the last twenty years.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, I mean, just in April of this year, we've
had two murders. It's very difficult to be a journalist
in Haiti. The justice system is just like weak, and
that's part of the problems all along. I mean, there
are plenty of high profile killings that have never solved
in Haiti. They just don't have the forensic capacity. And
(12:17):
most of the time the architect of these murderers, you're
not the trigger person. The architects are very powerful forces
and so nobody can touch them. They untouchable.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, the system is kind of set up for no investigation.
So let's go into the murder of John Dominique.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The way I say it is that Jean Dominique was
not killed because he was a journalist. Jean Dominique was
a patriarch who loved his country. He was fighting for
his country. He was one of the architects of the
Live Last movement, and when he saw that the movement
had not lived to its expectation, to its aspirations, and
he started speaking out Jonathan Demi, the lit great movie director.
(13:00):
It was a big Haiti file was really involved in Haiti.
A year or two after Jean Dominick assassinated, he paid
the Haitian Times some insane amount of money for us
to transcribe this interview Gan Dominic did with Aristide. Even
as a journalist, I felt bad for Aristid because he
was being skeured, shredded to pieces. I remember one thing.
(13:24):
He called him tited, which was like the term of
endearment that Haitians had for Aristides, or like t teed,
so like we love you. That that was sort of
like by extension. When you said tited and genle Minic said,
you know, this is not what we talked about, this
is not what the movement was supposed to be. You
could feel arristed, angst and anxiety and answering that question.
(13:47):
And there was a very cringe worthy interview. He was
being scured by Jan Dominick, and so you know, yeah,
they were not gonna let him live because he knew
too much and he was willing to spill what he knew.
He knew what happened to the movement or the movement
failed country in some ways and they had to get
(14:07):
rid of him.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
More off the break, let's go into what happened with
rist and lah blah, loss and corruption. What do you
think what happened?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's you know, all the days, power corrupt, absolute power corrupt. Absolutely.
I think Aristid had the right intention, but I think
he underestimated the forces against him. He wrongly thought that
having a popular vote, having the people behind you was
truly the power. I don't think Lava Lass and Veyo
(14:44):
realize how difficult it was going to be to implement
a progressive movement like that n hades Really, I would
I call apartheid like system. He has majority black people
in it. It's not rule by black people. Black people
don't make decay is about Haiti. It's the Aligogs and
the foreign community, principally the United States. The Aligog and
(15:06):
we call it mula tri. It was just like the
lower rung of light skinned people who are a top
of the food social chain and Haiti they were extremely powerful.
They didn't want all this social responsibility, all of the equity,
you know that this movement was talking about, and they
set out to destroy it.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So what happened with oristied and drugs too. I mean,
there's a whole is show of a bunch of people
and his group who went into drugs.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Right. It was at the time the cartels were alive
and well, Haiti had become a major transhipment and so
the drug trade it was. It was a scour of
the country and according to many accounts, arrested profited handsomely
during that period. We're still still going on today. So
(15:56):
it was not Rista didn't create this, it was there
before arrest did. He just benefited on it and took
advantage and enriched himself, you know. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Anyways, it's sad and it's something that happens in so
many other countries throughout the Americas. Right, there are other
stuff in terms of the island. You know, you had
color aisutbreaks. Then you had the earthquake that was devastating
that kind of even worsen things along with the political crisis.
(16:26):
It's one crisis after another.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
One, and it was set up for failure.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Can you explain that a little more.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, even before we get into the string of leaders
that have misled Haiti badly, let's go back to nineteen
eighty six when Baby Doc left. We've emerged after twenty
nine year dictatorship. There are no institutions. The du Valuers
even destroyed the Boy Scouts because anytime two Haitians got
(16:53):
together for anything, it was seen as a threat dictatorship.
And so I'm saying, oh that to say, you know,
there were no institutions. Civil society was extremely weak, and
within that background, the US is forcing Haiti to become
a democracy overnight, and it was a recipe for disaster.
(17:17):
So to me, that policy usherting all these fail states
because the media is weak, the justice system is weak,
there are no groups, you know, there's no organizations, the
labor movement is weak, there's nothing, and so it was
self fulfilling prophecy that what happened after that was inevitable
(17:42):
because democracy does not happen in a vacuum. They have
to be structured in place. We couldn't withstand democracy because
we hadn't built the democratic institutions. There was nothing. We
were making up on a fly at the urging of
the State Department and other US agencies to become the
because they wanted to isolate Cuba to show that Cuba
(18:03):
was only non democratic country in this hemisphere. And it
was really important, and Haiti had to play along whether
or not it was ready.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, there seemed to be just power vacuums of Haiti
over and over again. But do you think, I mean,
all these movements were led by brilliant people. I'm already stated,
despite whatever you want to think about him, he was
a brilliant guy. Jean Dominique was brilliant father, Jean Jus
was brilliant too. Does anything remain from these movements in
terms of us we move on to the future. No.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
The problem is again it goes back to the lack
of institutions in the country. Because these things for them
to live on, there had to be institutions willing to
live to them. And because of the turmoil that we've
been discussing at LANT, you never had the moment to
really build these institutions that underpin a democracy. And so
all these movements, they were not by design, but they
(18:58):
became a cult of It was like the charismatic leader,
and it was not structured well enough for it to
live beyond the person who had founded the movement or
the organization. And so that's what you have here. That's
why they died. They didn't have caretakers. They didn't have
people to continue to fight, and so the structures didn't
(19:20):
exist in Haiti, not here.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
When you started the Haitian Times, what did you hope
to accomplish with it? And are you halfway there?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It depends on the day you asked me that the
second question. I wanted to have a better inform community,
especially those who were not born or raised in Haiti.
We thought that American style journalism, which is why I
felt my readers would understand that and they would be
better informed and then be able to build institutions in
(19:53):
the community. The next generation, they'll be American American and
they can wield influence on Washington. They'll understand. Hopefully they'll
be Haitian Times readers who really were motivated and just
got tired of reading all this stuff about Haiti and decided, like,
let's petition our government to make sure the ancestral land
(20:15):
is not a hot mess that it is.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
What do you think is the importance of ethnic media
for a community like the Haitian community.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's a glue that hold it together. Because you think
about it, New York Times with all this reach and power, CNN,
they cannot do that they're not structured. They can't be.
You know, everywhere they try to synthesize what they think
their average viewers or readers will want, and they provide that.
But you know, in the city like New York where
(20:43):
about seventy sixty or fifty or sixty percent of the population,
English is our second language, or they don't speak English
at all, and so without ethnic media, they're clueless so
as to what's going on. And so that's the kind
of role that we play in the community. Although the
Haitian Times is an English the stories that we cover
stories that nobody else that have used impact on the community,
(21:06):
but nobody else will cover. Right now, Haiti is in
a very dark place. But you know, the saying goes,
it gets darker as dawn is about to enter. And
I've always said that Adian needed a revolution, but the
United States would never let it happen because it's in
(21:27):
its backyard. But to my surprise, the United States is
letting it happen. We haven't a revolution right now. What's
going on it is a revolution because the old Oligoch
under run. Everybody's under run. The country is tearing itself apart.
The system. I'm not saying it's been uprooted, but it
(21:48):
has been rocked to its core and no one is
safe there. So now the question is what emerges out
of that because there's been a lot of blood ledding,
too much of it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Well, Gerrie, it's really great catching up to you again.
What is it thirty years later? I'm glad that you
took the time to do this with us.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Thank you so much, because you have had, Like you
mentioned earlier, sometimes we don't have time for reflection, and
you've had this project. Gave me a chance to reflect
on a lot of things over those years, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That was Anna Arana in conversation with Gary Pierre Pierre,
founder of the Haitian Times. That's where you can find
his work and lots of in depth reporting on Haiti.
Next time a special interview with Jacqueline Charles at the
Miami Herald about her reporting on the assassination of Haiti's
president Jouvene Moiz. Silenced is a Kaleidoscope content original produced
(23:00):
by Margaret Katscher, Jen Kinney and Kadmini Ragunov, Research assistance
from Sybylla Phipps, Jeremy Bigwood, and Kira Sinis. Edited by
Lacy Roberts, executive produced by Kate Osborne, reported and hosted
by Anna Arana and.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Me Oz Valoshin.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Fact checking by Nicole Pasulka. Music by Oliver Rodigan aka
k Denzer, Mix and sound design by Kyle Murdock. Thanks
to Mangosh Haar, Tikta Costaslinas and Vainy Shuri. Our executive
producers at iHeart are Katrina Novel and Nikki Etoor. If
you like what you hear, please rate, review, share, and
(23:42):
subscribe to our channel. Thank you,
From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This is Silenced. I'm Os Voloscian.
In this our final episode, we bring you some very
important context. My co host and collaborator Anna Arana speaks
with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Gary Pierre. Pierre, the founder
of the Haitian Times. You heard a bit from Gary
(00:34):
in the previous episode talking about the radio. Haiti founder
and journalist Jean Dominique.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Genomenick said, you know, this is not what we talked about.
This is not what the movement was supposed to be,
and so they were not gonna let him live. The
movement failed the country in some ways and they had
to get it of them.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
This interview is a reunion of swords. Gary and Anna
both lived in Miami in the early nineteen nineties when
VEO was active on the airwaves and in the streets,
and they worked together as reporters at the Sun Sentinel.
Right as the murders began, Gary returned to New York,
where he first reported at the New York Times and
(01:14):
then started his own newspaper. They had a wide ranging
conversation about the role of ethnic media Miami at the
height of the VERO years. Jean Dominique's murder and the
impact of impunity on the Haitian community. We hope you
enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
So I want to welcome you Gary Pierre Pierre, who
is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and founder of The
Haitian Times, an English language publication that serves the Haitian
diaspora and is based out of New York City. Gary
is also the co founder of the Center for Community
and Ethnic Media at the City University Graduate School of Journalism.
(02:31):
And we want to thank you so much for speaking
to us.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So, you were living in Miami in the early nineteen
nineties when the murders that we investigated in our series
took place, right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I was there. Actually, I was on my way
out when coming back to New York when these murders happened.
I was not covering, but I remember those stories very well.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
What do you recall about that moment with the broadcasters,
the Creole language broadcasters.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
At that time, Anna, Miami, South Florida in general had
a very vibrant media scene and it was mostly radio.
It was an exciting place. There was revolution in the air,
if you will. There are a lot of optimism about
what Haiti could become and Miami was emerging as the
center of the dash Or community.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Did you listen to the radio stations, the Creole language
radio stations.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Absolutely, I mean everyone did. There were a source of
information for me because at the time I was covering
Haiti for the Sunset and the Aitian community as well,
So that was one of my sources. In fact, that
was my crowd source outlet. Whenever I was writing a
story about whatever the topic, I would call one of
(03:47):
the owners and say, listen, I need to talk to
people about this, that and the other. Can you have
him call me? And within seconds my phone in the
newsroom was just like flooded. People just were calling and
so I realized on them for sourcing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I was very interested in seeing this movement Verao, which
is a revolutionary movement growing in Miami at the time,
led by Father John Shrus Can you talk about that.
Did you meet Father John Ruis then and what Vereo
meant for the Miami Haitian community.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, I did meet Father God rest his soul, as
every journalist did, because he was very active and was
very somewhat militant. In fact, he had a little song
that I remember very well. He was just a gadi
makud Gadiema could veo yo that transit to look at
(04:40):
these markouts, look at these markouts, watch them, keep a
watchful eye on them. So that was what Veyo means. Basically,
it was an end time. I could pro democracy movement
born in Miami, led by father Jon Jus. I was
privy to have been part of that. I mean as
a journalist. Of course, these were young people. They were kids,
you know, they were young. Many of the members of
(05:01):
the video they were idealistic. I didn't know them personally.
But it's very important to contextualize that moment historically because
as I mentioned earlier, no one ever dreamed that something
like that could actually become a reality. We all have
given a hope that we were going to live under dictatorship.
So when you know these young people in Haiti, and
I need to underscore that it was happening in Haiti
(05:23):
and then came to the US. So it was exciting time.
And everybody you know, want to.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Change our story starts actually looking at how even right
before our stuate gets elected, how the diaspora actually helped
elect him right.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, to some extent, honesty was a movement that studied
in Haiti, and Daspo just was bored by that because
we hadn't seen any popular movements in nineteen fifty seven
fast while Papa doct Duvalier elected president and fraudulent elections
and then swiftly dissolved parliamn Neudo dar Me and declare
(06:02):
himself president for life until he died in nineteen seventy one,
and then his nineteen year old son was selected president
for life. We were all thinking that was it. Haiti
was doomed. People were not optimistic that anything, any change
would be coming, and so when the Lava Last movement
(06:23):
started was very exciting for a lot of people. It
was something that people never really dreamed of happening, and
so yes, the Daspor then became part of that movement
to help Aris did get elected.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I was also struck by the fact that they chose
to broadcast in Creole, which was a big political thing.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Right. The thing is Crele is spoken by one hundred
Percentimmati speaks Creole, and it was an abomination that the
media in Haiti was in French because most people didn't
understand French, especially if you were not educated. You didn't
go to school. And that's why Jean Dominique, who when
(07:06):
he founded Radio Haiti and Terror and he broadcast in Creole,
it was an instinct success. So the whole notion of
then having French only media was just absurd because you know,
you excluded about seventy percent of the population.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And I guess that's the purpose you divide the country exactly.
You're right, absolutely, Can you explain to us who John
Dominique was and what he was to someone like you.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Jean Dominique was a very courageous journalist and an activist
at the same time. And he was an interesting person
in many ways. Came from the middle class, upper middle class,
you know, light skin, who wanted to fight for the poor.
I mean, that's very staple of American affair. You know,
we know that the rich a lot of they become
(07:53):
a champion of the poor. That's accepting in some families,
but in Haiti that was unaccepted. He was one of
the pioneers of that. Somebody who's comfortable, is part of
the elite, but wants to work with the poor, and
he did. And so he was an agronomist and he
got killed ultimately because the lava less movement took a
dark turn and so he got swooped into.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
That this creole language broadcasters in Miami, they emulated John Dominique.
Did you see the similarities when you were reporting on
the community.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Well, it was a different environment, it was a different place. Yes,
they did try his style, which was quite effective and
mobilizing people. I mentioned earlier that those were my sources
for acquired source and they were very effective and getting
people out. There were protests every day. You have to
(08:47):
remember Miami, unlike New York, Boston and Montreal, the weather
allowed you to gather anytime it's warm. It's similar to Haiti.
And at the time you had a large population, but
a lot of them were not working. They were undocumented,
and so people just had time and they could be mobilized,
(09:09):
and they were mobilized rather frequently, and I covered many
of these protests.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Can you describe the community at the time. I mean
it kind of grew between the seventies and the eighties,
it kind of just blossomed, right.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, yeah, there was a moment where eighties you had
an influx of both people that were coming almost every day.
When the Kudatai against arist didn't happen. You had massive
in for thousands of people. I remember going to Chrome
to cover immigrants. I went to Guantanamo where there were
housed temporarily before the Clinton administrations could decide what to do.
(09:46):
It happened under Bush and then Clinton inherited that situation
as well, and so it was a huge influx and
the majority of them settled in South Florida and doubled
the community in less than five years, double the number
of Haitians and down there. And so that influx, they
(10:06):
needed social services, and we've been talking about there was
a lot of activism because there were mistreatments of Haitians
compared to Cubans, and so the community was up and
on about that. So by the time we're talking about
the murderers occurred, there was a significant group, but it
was a very poor community at the time.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
I mean, I was a guest at the fact that
this happened, and it was not just in the Haitian community,
but the fact that immigrant communities were not being treated
the same way as you know, you was born journalists
that they were killing and then nothing, nobody went after
their killers. Everything was just moving so fast, and Haiti
at that time with our steed getting deposed by the
(10:47):
military and the coup.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I mean the events that you just described really
pushed those murders to the way, way way back burner.
I mean, even the Miami Hera was not it all
that much. I don't think the Sun Sentinel did. You
were at the Sun Sentinel at the time, I believe,
and it was like it was arristed in Haiti. That
was a big story by then, So those murders were
(11:11):
not top of mind for us in the media. But
the police, you know, I don't think they ever really
seriously investigated these cases. I'm not going to accuse anybody
of anything because I don't have any proof, but it
was just never solved.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, they did get the shooters who happened to be
Haitian American or Haitian kids who had arrived also as
refugees with their parents, and that's where it stopped. One
of the big things is that we wanted to sort
of think in terms of how the lack of accountability
on those murders has continued, this whole lack of accountability
in places like in Haiti, with the murders of journalists.
(11:49):
I mean I looked at John Dominique, but there have
been dozens of other Haitian journalists who've been killed in
the last twenty years.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, I mean, just in April of this year, we've
had two murders. It's very difficult to be a journalist
in Haiti. The justice system is just like weak, and
that's part of the problems all along. I mean, there
are plenty of high profile killings that have never solved
in Haiti. They just don't have the forensic capacity. And
(12:17):
most of the time the architect of these murderers, you're
not the trigger person. The architects are very powerful forces
and so nobody can touch them. They untouchable.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, the system is kind of set up for no investigation.
So let's go into the murder of John Dominique.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The way I say it is that Jean Dominique was
not killed because he was a journalist. Jean Dominique was
a patriarch who loved his country. He was fighting for
his country. He was one of the architects of the
Live Last movement, and when he saw that the movement
had not lived to its expectation, to its aspirations, and
he started speaking out Jonathan Demi, the lit great movie director.
(13:00):
It was a big Haiti file was really involved in Haiti.
A year or two after Jean Dominick assassinated, he paid
the Haitian Times some insane amount of money for us
to transcribe this interview Gan Dominic did with Aristide. Even
as a journalist, I felt bad for Aristid because he
was being skeured, shredded to pieces. I remember one thing.
(13:24):
He called him tited, which was like the term of
endearment that Haitians had for Aristides, or like t teed,
so like we love you. That that was sort of
like by extension. When you said tited and genle Minic said,
you know, this is not what we talked about, this
is not what the movement was supposed to be. You
could feel arristed, angst and anxiety and answering that question.
(13:47):
And there was a very cringe worthy interview. He was
being scured by Jan Dominick, and so you know, yeah,
they were not gonna let him live because he knew
too much and he was willing to spill what he knew.
He knew what happened to the movement or the movement
failed country in some ways and they had to get
(14:07):
rid of him.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
More off the break, let's go into what happened with
rist and lah blah, loss and corruption. What do you
think what happened?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's you know, all the days, power corrupt, absolute power corrupt. Absolutely.
I think Aristid had the right intention, but I think
he underestimated the forces against him. He wrongly thought that
having a popular vote, having the people behind you was
truly the power. I don't think Lava Lass and Veyo
(14:44):
realize how difficult it was going to be to implement
a progressive movement like that n hades Really, I would
I call apartheid like system. He has majority black people
in it. It's not rule by black people. Black people
don't make decay is about Haiti. It's the Aligogs and
the foreign community, principally the United States. The Aligog and
(15:06):
we call it mula tri. It was just like the
lower rung of light skinned people who are a top
of the food social chain and Haiti they were extremely powerful.
They didn't want all this social responsibility, all of the equity,
you know that this movement was talking about, and they
set out to destroy it.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So what happened with oristied and drugs too. I mean,
there's a whole is show of a bunch of people
and his group who went into drugs.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Right. It was at the time the cartels were alive
and well, Haiti had become a major transhipment and so
the drug trade it was. It was a scour of
the country and according to many accounts, arrested profited handsomely
during that period. We're still still going on today. So
(15:56):
it was not Rista didn't create this, it was there
before arrest did. He just benefited on it and took
advantage and enriched himself, you know. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Anyways, it's sad and it's something that happens in so
many other countries throughout the Americas. Right, there are other
stuff in terms of the island. You know, you had
color aisutbreaks. Then you had the earthquake that was devastating
that kind of even worsen things along with the political crisis.
(16:26):
It's one crisis after another.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
One, and it was set up for failure.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Can you explain that a little more.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, even before we get into the string of leaders
that have misled Haiti badly, let's go back to nineteen
eighty six when Baby Doc left. We've emerged after twenty
nine year dictatorship. There are no institutions. The du Valuers
even destroyed the Boy Scouts because anytime two Haitians got
(16:53):
together for anything, it was seen as a threat dictatorship.
And so I'm saying, oh that to say, you know,
there were no institutions. Civil society was extremely weak, and
within that background, the US is forcing Haiti to become
a democracy overnight, and it was a recipe for disaster.
(17:17):
So to me, that policy usherting all these fail states
because the media is weak, the justice system is weak,
there are no groups, you know, there's no organizations, the
labor movement is weak, there's nothing, and so it was
self fulfilling prophecy that what happened after that was inevitable
(17:42):
because democracy does not happen in a vacuum. They have
to be structured in place. We couldn't withstand democracy because
we hadn't built the democratic institutions. There was nothing. We
were making up on a fly at the urging of
the State Department and other US agencies to become the
because they wanted to isolate Cuba to show that Cuba
(18:03):
was only non democratic country in this hemisphere. And it
was really important, and Haiti had to play along whether
or not it was ready.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, there seemed to be just power vacuums of Haiti
over and over again. But do you think, I mean,
all these movements were led by brilliant people. I'm already stated,
despite whatever you want to think about him, he was
a brilliant guy. Jean Dominique was brilliant father, Jean Jus
was brilliant too. Does anything remain from these movements in
terms of us we move on to the future. No.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
The problem is again it goes back to the lack
of institutions in the country. Because these things for them
to live on, there had to be institutions willing to
live to them. And because of the turmoil that we've
been discussing at LANT, you never had the moment to
really build these institutions that underpin a democracy. And so
all these movements, they were not by design, but they
(18:58):
became a cult of It was like the charismatic leader,
and it was not structured well enough for it to
live beyond the person who had founded the movement or
the organization. And so that's what you have here. That's
why they died. They didn't have caretakers. They didn't have
people to continue to fight, and so the structures didn't
(19:20):
exist in Haiti, not here.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
When you started the Haitian Times, what did you hope
to accomplish with it? And are you halfway there?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It depends on the day you asked me that the
second question. I wanted to have a better inform community,
especially those who were not born or raised in Haiti.
We thought that American style journalism, which is why I
felt my readers would understand that and they would be
better informed and then be able to build institutions in
(19:53):
the community. The next generation, they'll be American American and
they can wield influence on Washington. They'll understand. Hopefully they'll
be Haitian Times readers who really were motivated and just
got tired of reading all this stuff about Haiti and decided, like,
let's petition our government to make sure the ancestral land
(20:15):
is not a hot mess that it is.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
What do you think is the importance of ethnic media
for a community like the Haitian community.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's a glue that hold it together. Because you think
about it, New York Times with all this reach and power, CNN,
they cannot do that they're not structured. They can't be.
You know, everywhere they try to synthesize what they think
their average viewers or readers will want, and they provide that.
But you know, in the city like New York where
(20:43):
about seventy sixty or fifty or sixty percent of the population,
English is our second language, or they don't speak English
at all, and so without ethnic media, they're clueless so
as to what's going on. And so that's the kind
of role that we play in the community. Although the
Haitian Times is an English the stories that we cover
stories that nobody else that have used impact on the community,
(21:06):
but nobody else will cover. Right now, Haiti is in
a very dark place. But you know, the saying goes,
it gets darker as dawn is about to enter. And
I've always said that Adian needed a revolution, but the
United States would never let it happen because it's in
(21:27):
its backyard. But to my surprise, the United States is
letting it happen. We haven't a revolution right now. What's
going on it is a revolution because the old Oligoch
under run. Everybody's under run. The country is tearing itself apart.
The system. I'm not saying it's been uprooted, but it
(21:48):
has been rocked to its core and no one is
safe there. So now the question is what emerges out
of that because there's been a lot of blood ledding,
too much of it.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Well, Gerrie, it's really great catching up to you again.
What is it thirty years later? I'm glad that you
took the time to do this with us.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Thank you so much, because you have had, Like you
mentioned earlier, sometimes we don't have time for reflection, and
you've had this project. Gave me a chance to reflect
on a lot of things over those years, So thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That was Anna Arana in conversation with Gary Pierre Pierre,
founder of the Haitian Times. That's where you can find
his work and lots of in depth reporting on Haiti.
Next time a special interview with Jacqueline Charles at the
Miami Herald about her reporting on the assassination of Haiti's
president Jouvene Moiz. Silenced is a Kaleidoscope content original produced
(23:00):
by Margaret Katscher, Jen Kinney and Kadmini Ragunov, Research assistance
from Sybylla Phipps, Jeremy Bigwood, and Kira Sinis. Edited by
Lacy Roberts, executive produced by Kate Osborne, reported and hosted
by Anna Arana and.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Me Oz Valoshin.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Fact checking by Nicole Pasulka. Music by Oliver Rodigan aka
k Denzer, Mix and sound design by Kyle Murdock. Thanks
to Mangosh Haar, Tikta Costaslinas and Vainy Shuri. Our executive
producers at iHeart are Katrina Novel and Nikki Etoor. If
you like what you hear, please rate, review, share, and
(23:42):
subscribe to our channel. Thank you,
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