July 24, 2025 • 42 mins
This week, Gabe and Chris dive into the complex topic of chemsex—the pairing of party drugs and sex—within queer and trans communities. Poet and performer Joss Barton shares how her gender journey began with an acid trip and how exploring pleasure through substances became part of her story. But it wasn’t until she began incorporating her experiences into her wild, hilarious performances that she started to break free from the stigma trans women often face around drug use and reassess her own relationship with it. That’s harm reduction, mama!
In a raw and raunchy interview, Joss unpacks the highs and lows of getting high and horny, and how the U.S. government's escalating attacks on trans people are shaping her community’s use of chems. Then, a harm reduction expert joins the conversation to share tips for safer drug use and how to seek support when it’s time to cool it down.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, viewers.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about queer sex.
Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities. If
hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more offends
your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer discretion
is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Put your pussy up, put your put your pussy up,
Put your pussy up. Put put your pussy up.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm Gabelon Sadez and I'm christatason Rosso. Each week we
explore the sublime world of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We talk to queer folks of all kinds. We'll ask
some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide
practical advice that you can use at home.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Let Joy, put put Yo pussy, put Joe, put put Jo.
Put put your pup.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hey listeners. Today's episode features frank and unfiltered discussions about
substance use, addiction, and chem sex.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
The opinions expressed in this episode do not reflect the
values or release of Snap.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Sniffy's does not recommend the use of chemical substances during
sexual scenarios, and this episode should not be taken as
an endorsement of the behaviors or practices discussed.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Drugs are illegal and can cause a host of negative
physical and behavioral effects, both short and long term.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
If you think you might be triggered or upset by
this conversation, skip this episode and come back next week.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So, Chris, yes game.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I was told you'd be celebrating a big anniversary soon.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I will. Yeah, in July twenty eighth, I'll have ten
years of sobriety. That's amazing. Congratulations, Thank you so much.
It's kind of weird to think about, Like, I don't
feel like I'm that old.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You've been very open on the show, conversations on and
off camera about your sobriety. And there is a hashtag
on every social media post that you make. Could you
share what it is? Yes, it is sexy Sober Devians.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
That sounds like a TLC single.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What was the origin story of Sexy Sober Divian?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I started using Crystal math when I was fifteen, and
I did that for fifteen years. Sex started around the
same time as my matthews did, and so I never
really had sober sex. When I finally decided that I
needed to get sober and was willing to do whatever
that took. I was really worried the stories that I
(02:18):
was hearing because I do twelve step. A lot of
folks were saying that, like sex was the thing that
took them out. Whenever sex would come up, they would
end up just using meth again, and I really was
afraid of that. What I ended up doing was talking
to a lot of people who had more sober references
for sex than I did. Specifically around the sexual practices
that I engage in, like the biggest sex, etc. Like
(02:39):
that stuff is connected a lot of times to drugs,
and I wanted to be able to still do those
things because I'm not vanilla. My best is not who
I No, it's not, and so I really wanted to
be able to engage in those things. And getting to
reclaim that in sobriety has been one of the most
(03:01):
empowering things for me. Now you know, almost ten years later,
I can honestly say there are things that I have
done or things that I like to do that like
I never thought i'd be able to do sober, and
I do them sober just fine, even better actually, because
I'm definitely more present and connected to those people.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I love that now, Chris, you're our non binary body
on set. Yes, I'm wondering, is there any connection between
your sobriety journey and your gender journey.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I didn't realize how much of my use was connected
to my gender dysphoria until I got sober. The language
that we had around gender diversity has changed. Oh, twenty
five years ago when I was expressing my gender in
different ways, but there wasn't language around it, and there
wasn't spaces where I could talk about it. So much
of my use was around suppressing the dysphoria that I
(03:50):
was feeling, sure and not understanding that that's what I
was doing. And so when I came into sobriety and
started making connections with other trands and gender diverse folks,
it became very clear to me that like, I am
neither male or female. Had I not got sober, I
wouldn't have had that clarity of mind, and also that
(04:11):
curiosity to sort of like investigate what else is going
on here in my brain? I don't know, it kind
of changed my life.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well, it sounds like I mean, once you kind of
open the floodgates to be radically honest with yourself about
one thing, it's like, how do you stop that?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Like you just kind of have to confront your full self. Yes,
we are having this conversation, of course, because we hear
a lot about chem sex or P and P which
stands for party in play as a huge problem in
the LGBTQ community, But most of the time the focus
is solely on gay men.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
We don't hear many people talking about the role that
kim sex plays on trans and non binary people.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
First, we'll be talking with Joss Barton, a poet and
performance artist who makes brilliant work inspired by her own
experience in what she calls the Life.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Then we'll be talking to a harm reduction advocate who
will offers ffety strategies for folks who party and play.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So let's meet our first guest. Joss Barton is a poet, journalist, curator,
and spoken word performance artist whose work examines trans women's
lives from a historical, political, and pop culture perspective, exploring
how they live, grieve, moarn, and party.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Her debut full length collection of poems, Goodbye to a Dream,
Believed is being published by Feature Poem Books and Spring
of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
She also co stars in the upcoming feature film Dreams
in Nightmares, directed by Shatara Michelle Ford. Please welcome to
Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, Joss Barton, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
For having me. I'm so excited, said I can feel
the energy now.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Son. Earlier, Gabe asked me about how sobriety and my
gender journey are sort of connected. What role do substances
play in your gender journey?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Well, I decided to transition because of an acid trip period.
The first time I did acid. Yeah, So I was
on this gay queer camping trip. I had never done
acid before, and I actually had very little experience with
like like drugs like it. I mean, I was always
like obsessed with through a culture and artists that were
very heavy into drugs, but like the most that I
(06:13):
would get into was like some really good marijuana. So
I really was very new to substances. And we dropped
acid and it was like the most amazing transformative experience,
like tripping in like gorgeous nature. We were all in
a river, so it was like okay, time to clean up,
like let's make dinner. And I'm like, no, I need
(06:33):
I need more time in the water and in the wood.
So I'm just like by myself in the woods, tripping balls,
and all of a sudden, everything around me becomes like
a humanoid like figure, like the trees, the bushes, the clouds,
and everything's fucking around me. So so I'm like just
(06:54):
standing there and I'm just like looking up at the
sky and it just kind of like hit me. I
was like, oh, you're trans Oh you get back to civilization,
You're like you're starting transition.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
So that was kind of like my awakening.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
So when I'm walking back to the camp site, I like, obviously,
you know, gaze in the woods. They fought, so like
i walk up on these guys fucking and I'm like, oh,
I just found out I'm a woman. I want to
I want to see if I can join it. Like
so I'm like asking them, like what's up, how y'all
do it?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
This looks hot?
Speaker 5 (07:25):
And they're just like ignoring me, and I'm like okay,
So I'm like getting a little bit closer. I'm like hey,
like I'm I'm a tranny.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Like what's up?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
What's good?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
And They're still ignoring me, and I get up on
them and my eyes adjust from the drugs and the darkness,
and it was just three huge piles of trash bags
by steaming flies, and I'm just like standing there staring
at the trash, and I'm like, I am a woman,
(07:56):
trash I am awoke.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I feel like the experience would have been the same
if they were living gay men as well. Right, I know, Oh,
you were being ignored by gay men. You are a woman.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
I felt like so real and cut in that moment. So, yeah,
drugs are like they kind of open my mind. Sometimes
I use substances to write, sometimes I use it to perform.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It's just a tool like anything else.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
And it's something that you can like get too deep
in and you can put maybe too much importance on it.
Let's just say, I don't need the substances to be me,
but when I am on a substance, this is like
times three thousands, So sometimes I can be too much
for people.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, I can relate to that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I'm wondering anecdotally, at least, do you find that substance
use in chem sex differs when looking at the gay
community and the trans community.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
My introduction into chemseex was like right at the turning
point from like Lee being gay boy faggot life into
like full on transition. Since then, I would say most
of my KIM sex situations tend.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
To be a little bit more like one on one.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
If you're in sex works, there are clients that look
for like sex workers specifically to do drugs with, Like
that's that's like a kink for some people. Some sex
workers that's like a big boundaries, Like you know, you
could do whatever you want in front of me, but
I'm not going to participate. And then there are girls
like me. Sometimes it's like okay, let's wrack it up.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I have a clean fight, let's do this.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I think transmit and sis queer guys like Sometimes it's
more of a group session.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We all know about the meth orgies because.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
But I buy invite to the meth orgies gets lost
in the mail every time, so I don't get to
enjoy those like scenes. But I've had some amazing hot
sex with partners specifically looking for transforms. It's usually like
a one on one situation which has its benefits has
(10:08):
its cons like as opposed maybe in a group setting,
I have to kind of feel it out on my
own and really like take it slowly with the chem
sex play because maybe I don't know this person that well.
My trade and my pieces might find an annoying, but
I'm constantly like, okay, how we feeling.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I would rather be.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Hyper vigilant about my own sense of like safety and security,
because if I'm with someone and they're just so tweaked
twact out that it's just getting weird, I'm just going
ahead and like, let's go ahead and let me pack
up my shit.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
It's interesting, like hearing you talk about and describing these situations,
I'm realizing so much about myself and like my own
hypervigilance around how quickly I am able to like assess
in a situation. And I'm realizing it's coming from my
kim sex use and the sex work that I did
for many years. It's like I need to be able
to like look at you and as that's what's going
(11:03):
down and then split second, right, all those like survival
skills that I learned while I was like doing sex
and sex work.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
So it's like a real life thing for people in
that life. It's a real thing. It's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Jos, I want to hear a bit about your creative process.
You do drag and performance, you write poetry, all about
a term that's been around for a very long time,
the life. For our listeners who might not be familiar
with the term, what is the life and how does
your artwork take audiences inside that experience.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
So it's a term that definitely has a lot of
roots in queer culture and it really comes from a
time when there was still a lot of stigma, there
was still laws against how we can live. And it
really is rooted in the experiences of sex workers, the
ball room scene, and street queens and other fagots just
(11:58):
wanted to live their lives so authentically that like assimilation
was not a choice, and that means you are at
higher risk for not having maybe the best job or
having to be an underground economy that was just kind
of like a sacrifice you had to make. And I
think that term has evolved because we have more opportunities.
(12:19):
We obviously are commodified in a lot of ways, so
being in the life has changed a lot. It might
have more of a I guess connection to ballroom scene realness,
being bad, being sickening me in the night life scene.
But it really comes from like bitches that were bricky,
that were street queens that just had no other choice.
So that's kind of what my poetry kind of examines.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Absolutely, And there's a lot of history that seems like
it is repeating.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
Nah, well, I mean a lot of this stuff still exists,
right yeah, especially for trans women, Like a lot of
the barriers are still there, a lot of them are
making a comeback talking about the life I think still
has a lot of validity right now.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
So that's what I try to do.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Speaking of your work, we do actually have a short
excerpt of one of your performances, and for folks listening,
we should say that in this clip, jos is wearing
a two piece bikini, a statue of liberty headcrown while
holding a torch in one hand and her poem in
the other. Just to set the scene for you all.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
In Helle, the Transsexual Oracle mets smoke through the yellow
glass strawberry pipe. Pretend these holy come mornings are your
transsexual passage. Listen to the stories of drug dolls and
let the mothers guide you to.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
The end of the world. I pledge of allegiance to.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
The bags of the United Dolls of Dystopia and to
the Republic for rent it rotts what Fippy Undra goddess And.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
That's so that's the gist of it.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It's pretty awesome how you combine both poetry and drag
like it's kind of iconic.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I like to make a spectacle as much as I
can when it comes to the poetry, the performance are
at the drag the improv. I used to do an
improv bit where I pretended like Hunter Biden was calling
my phone and I'm like husting Hunter out because he
owe me money. He smoked on my map. So it's
a spectacle, it's really all it is.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I'm obsessed. I love that. What kind of effect does
talking openly about substance using your performances have on your
own usage? And how do your audiences respond to this material.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
I was noticing in the beginning that if I was
engaging Kim sex or is engaging in P and P play,
I would get like really like secretive about it. I'd
be very ashamed about it, and then I didn't want
anyone to know. And so the next chance I had
to have that scenario, I would go full force, like
really take it there and I just kept noticing this pattern,
(15:03):
and then one day I was like, what if I'm
just start telling people that I like to smoke meth,
and I like to get.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Game banged, and I like to do all these things.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
You know, what if I'm honest about it and also
integrate it into the work. It definitely helped me dismantle
the internalized stigma and shame I had with it, which
then in turn allowed me to interact in those kim
sex moments in a more healthier way where maybe I
wasn't feeling super ashamed and so therefore I didn't feel
(15:33):
like I needed to really binge. I'm not the first normal,
I'd be the last tranny talking about smoking meth.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
With a client.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
But I wanted to highlight, you know, a lived experience
that is based in a lot of truth, and hopefully
people that also have that lived experience can see a
little bit of their lives reflected in a way that's
presented with dignity, whether it's the good shit shit, the joy,
the grief, the love, the ecstasy of it all.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And it seems like the media does seem to prioritize
narratives of sobriety for queer and trans people. But so
many of the amazing pioneering transactivists that we know from
history were trans women who were also in the life,
as you put it, and unable to access that type
of media friendly sobriety story in the world they lived in.
So I'm wondering what kind of stigma do you think
people affixed to trans women when they find out they
(16:27):
use substances.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
The stigma that.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Is attached to us is a stigma that really like
cuts to.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
The heart of our worth as human beings.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
So many people have been focused on this trans panic
that is like directed directly at trans women, specifically black
and brown trans women. They're affixing these sense of like,
we're dangerous, but we're violent, we have issues with drugs,
and we all do sex work and YadA, YadA, YadA, Right,
(16:57):
and so there's just all this stigma so that if
you are trans women using drugs, like it's hard to
be open and honest about your usage because you already
have so much pre conceived notions about who you are
that that's the last thing maybe you want to talk
about to someone. Yeah, I've had girlfriends that you know,
It wasn't until I told them about my usage that
(17:20):
they actually were like, oh, I actually also have had
problems with substances, and so it's hard for trans women
to even be honest with each other. I feel like
if we can talk more honestly about it, maybe we
can keep some of our trans women here longer and
healthier kind of existences where even if they are still using,
(17:44):
they're doing it in a way that's going to keep
them alive.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And that honesty is so important, right, Because I think,
particularly about Sylvia Rivera, I think a lot of her
drug use, her working as a sex worker sort of
erase from her legacy because people are it might devalue
her right as a queer icon. So these are things
that I don't think have been talked about recently, and
it doesn't decrease her contributions to the queer community, right,
(18:09):
Like the fact that she was so committed to homeless
career youth, to supporting other queer trends sex workers is
because she lived that experience and knew the dangerous people
face and the lack of resources. So to me, that's
such an important part of her legacy. It doesn't make
her less valuable. If anything, it makes it important, right,
it makes us aware of why her presence was so valuable.
You're so right, So justin, I would imagine that you
(18:37):
might have some stories about come sex that are wild
and outrageous. I'm wondering if you could share a story
that was memorable for you that kind of left an
impression on you, preferably not something too bad.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Oh, I was using with the partner that I engage
almost exclusively in chem sex with them, And he did
have a cockering or any biagra or anything.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So if it was is not aware.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
Sometimes substances like crystal like you can't get it up,
so whether you.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Need trimex cockering something.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
And he was just looking around, like digging through all
these like closets and drawers, couldn't find a cockering.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
He's like, oh, I have a zip tie. You think
that one?
Speaker 5 (19:19):
I said, bab, I don't think you should do the
zip tie. He's like, I'm just gonna try it.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Mind you.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
This man is very hung so he has this zip
tie around his ball sec and his huge dick and
it's quickly cutting off his circulation and he starts freaking out.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
We're tweaked out, mind you. So we had to then search.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
No no, no, no, I'm.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Sit there doing like I feel like if a grades anatomy,
do an operation.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So I was like, you gotta hold still.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
I was like, my hands are covered in loop, your
dick is covered like you're gonna have to be still.
So then you know, I just, you know, carefully sniffed
off the zip tie.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
You did it? Yeah, I had to.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
I had to cut off the tie and it was
on their tight like I really had to, like like
do some surgical like maneuvers.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Y'all have it like a shoelace. We just use a shoelaces.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Never, I never heard of that one.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
A shoelace.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh baby.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
The other thing about Kim sakes the faggots have ingenuity.
Speaker 7 (20:25):
When period resourceful. We will figure it out, they will, Jos.
We did talk about this earlier. The government is waging
a full out war on trans people.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
We all know this. We know this. Yeah, just a reminder.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I am wondering again, from your perspective, as someone that
does use substances, do you think you've seen an increase
in substance use among your friends or even among clients.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
The partying is increasing, the substances are increasing, for sure,
which I think is a test to how people are
feeling right now, like this shit is really bad, so
let's just party, party, party. But I also think like
people are stepping up to try to like fill in
those holes of care because we're definitely not getting it
(21:14):
from the government with the way the government is targeting,
not just us, but like the people that care for
us who are quickly losing access to PREP, we're quickly
losing access to risk mitigation. It's becoming other people in
the community stepping up to care for people that are
using and care for sex workers. So I think that's
(21:36):
definitely something I'm seeing for sure. I think for me,
my use is actually dropped significantly simply because I know
how stigmatized trans women are becoming right now, and so
I kind of have decided, like I want a little
bit more of a clear mind frame.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But that's just me.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I'm wondering if you can give our listeners sort of
an idea of how you would explain or interpret harm reduction.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Harm reduction basically comes out of the age crisis and
people trying to mitigate not just HIV infections at the
time when there was no way to mitigate it, but
also how to assist people that were even on the
margins of that epidemic, so intervene you drug users, sex workers,
(22:26):
and obviously queer bin Now it encompasses everything from nightlife
to party scenes, to sex work to trans folks, which
I think is amazing. Harm reduction for me looks and
feels like really checking in with yourself and with your
partner when you're in these scenes, making sure that you
(22:46):
can find a way to feel safe in those situations.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I think that's harm reduction.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
Making sure you're checking with your body and also making
sure you're checking in with the substances you're using, testing
your drug ugs not using alone, making sure you know
how to use narcan, making sure if you're using intravenously,
having access to clean, fresh needles. I mean, and for me,
I just like you know, I set timers say, because
(23:17):
like you know, like you can be in a kimsex
situation and like next thing you know, it's the next day.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It's three days later, girl, let's be.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Three days later.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I'm a big proponent of I have a hard it
and I have a hard out, So yeah, I just
find a lot of inspiration from people that really do
the heavy lifting of harm reduction in our communities.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
I love those people. I think they're saints.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
But harm reduction also springs out of this realization that
shaming people out of behavior is never going to get.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Them to stop.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Right Exactly, if you stigmatize the behavior, it simply goes underground.
It gets harder to reduce the harm that it can cause.
Right now, it is crazy to me that are Secretary
of Hell is a recovering addict and is cutting off
access to harm reduction, cutting off access to drugs like
milock zone also known as NARCAN, trying to limit access
(24:08):
to PREP, trying to limit safe injection sites, and we
know what happens when these things happen. Mike Pence was
a governor of Indiana, shut down a bunch of safe
injection sites and harm reduction places, and then guess what happened.
We saw the race of HIV and AIDS skyrocket in
that state. There are so many case studies, and it
drives me crazy that people are like, We're just going
to pretend it doesn't exist and it will stop.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
The harm reduction requires communal support. What we're seeing in
this administration is an intentional dismantling of communities, because if
we don't have community with each other, we're just going
to feel so dejected and so much despair. Will go
along with anything that they tell us to go along with,
and you neique community for energy and uplifting and like
(24:50):
support and love and care.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
For sure, I'm so excited for the world we live in.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, wait till we have to order Narcan off Amazon.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That's like the only place want to get.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Do you find that people you're playing with are practicing
safer sex, whether that means condoms or.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Prep Considering that a lot of my partners are quote
unquote straight trends attracted men, I would say most straight
men are definitely not thinking about it. You'll talk to
these men and they're like, I have one was the
last time you were tested? And I'll be like, oh,
you know, I could like to get tested every three months.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
They're like, oh, yeah, I got tested like two years ago,
three years ago. Like as if that is, like, sir, exactly, sir.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
The straight chaser world, they really need some education.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
They need a lot more education.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
I quickly learned like I just had to really focus
on my status and my health, using condoms, using prep,
staying on top of my testing schedules, because like, you
can't really rely on your partner in these situations.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Now, granted I.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Am a piggy, but the man i'm in game and
may not consider themselves piggy correct, So as a piggy,
I kind of already kind of like trained to think
about these things.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Earlier, you talked a bit about your forthcoming book, Goodbye
to a Dream Believed, which is being published in spring
of twenty twenty six, and it starts with a dedication
I wanted to read it goes. These are not recovery poems.
These are not sobriety poems. These are survival poems. Could
you talk a bit more about survival and why you
started the book with this dedication.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
As a transsexual woman in America right now, survival is
centered on not just me surviving, but my sisters surviving.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I don't see the point of living.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
In a world where I don't have my sisters and
I don't have a sister out of trans women. That
survival like line was really tied to just me thinking
and sitting with the trans women in my life that
I've lost and trans women that I have never known,
and will never know that we also like lost, whether
through violence or through drugs, because trans survival is not
(27:07):
just surviving outward violence, but surviving the violence of indifference
and apathy, which can manifest itself in drug addiction suicide.
And also I wanted to start the book off with
that dedication because so much of that book was written
while I was in a heavier throw of kim sex use,
(27:29):
and I was just a way for me to be like,
you know, I'm not here to write about being sober
because I'm not, and I'm not here to write about
being a recovery because I'm not.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
But I'm alive.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I made it up to this point, so I wanted
to write something about survival in that sense.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
All right, incredible, Well, Joss Sedley, We're at the end
of our time with you.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We had so much, believe so I.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Am really grateful that you got a chance to talk
with us in chat. So thank you for sharing your story.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
And I can't wait for my Sniffies in box to
be flooded.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But again, thank you so much. I had a blast.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
This is a fab Thank you so much. Thank you, Joss,
your fab All right, coming up, We talked to harm
reduction advocate and expert about strategies for meth, GHB and more.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
In our last act, we talked about how Josh developed
a personal harm reduction approach that involved setting boundaries and intentions.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So in this act we're getting into the nitty gritty
of harm reduction.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
These are potentially life saving tips that anyone should pay
attention to if they wind up in situations where people
are partying.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Let's welcome our guests. Grace is a harm reduction advocate
and an enthusiast who works with a few different groups
around New York City.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So Grace, let's start at the beginning for our listeners.
How would you define harm reduction and what drew you
to become involved in this work.
Speaker 8 (28:40):
I started volunteering in Syringe Exchange when I decided to
stay in New York because I was like, well, if
I'm going to stay here, I'm going to actually like
be in the community. My baseline definition of harm reduction
is like it's the opposite of everything going on in
our world, and that it is actually giving people what
they need without cost or judgment, and it's giving peace
people a version of free health care that actually empowers
(29:03):
them to basically take ownership over something that may feel
uncontrollable for themselves. People talk about like wearing bi commets
is harm reduction, They talk about wearing seatbelts is harm reduction.
But ultimately, for me, what harm reduction actually was and
still is is the act of like syringe exchange or
safe supply exchange. For whatever substance there is, there's kind
(29:24):
of a safer way to do it. Most cities have
syringe exchange programs. If you're sniffing any sort of party drug,
you can get a safer sniffing kit which will provide
you with a sterile card and then individual straws. These
are harm reduction tools. If you have had any chemically
dependent relationship with any substance, you know that it's like
people aren't going to stop because they don't have access
to a sterile tool.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I think one of the major harm reduction tools that's
become well known over the past few years is naloxone,
which is used to revive people who are experienced in
opiod overdose and drug testing strips for a fentanyl or
a xylazine. Are there comparable harm reduction strategies or treatments
for folks who are engaging in consects partying using stimulants
like crystal math or cocaine.
Speaker 8 (30:02):
People mostly know about narcan because they're really afraid of ventanyl.
Ventanyl is primarily found in things that are sold as opiates.
New York has a pretty incredible drug checking program where
you can take your substances to a syringe exchange site
and get it tested for free and anonymously. But for
the most part, cocaine, ketamine, JHB, crystal meth, these have
(30:24):
way lower, if any, occurrences of ventanyl contamination. So when
we're talking about like chem sex and harm reduction for partying,
it's a little bit more about psychological safety. A stimulant
overdose as actually called an overamp. An overamp is not
necessarily life threatening in and of itself, but it can
(30:45):
involve things like seizures psychosis. When we're talking about harm
reduction strategies, it's mostly about preventing that kind of overamp.
And so you know, if you get tired while you're
using a stimulant, like trying to encourage yourself to sleep,
actually having about one glass of water an hour just
to keep yourself from overheating. Big thing in harm reduction
is the idea of safe supply. Like all these things
(31:08):
that we're terrified of, like fentanyl and xylazine and all
that stuff like that happens because our substances are so criminalized. Yea,
If people are getting drug tested, dealers are going to
come up with more chemical compounds that are not going
to show up on drug tests. And that's part of
why we have all these different contaminants. Until we advocate
for more of a safe supply for people, like, it's
(31:30):
kind of out of our hands, and so we have
to go to the next step, which is like how.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
We take care of each other.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Let's say you're in a cruising setting, whether it's a
kimsex party or just maybe out at a sex club
or darkroom, and you see someone who's acting agitated. How
do you calm them down safely?
Speaker 8 (31:45):
So like a stimulant overdose that is about like getting overheated,
getting too dehydrated, as well as potentially experiencing some paranoia, psychosis,
rapid heartbeat, panic attack. If people are agitated, as you say,
like not making someone feel singled out, if you are
even asking them are you good and they're obviously not good?
(32:06):
You know it can make them a little more paranoid
that everyone can see them. So just kind of asking
them where they want to go, what they need, using
a low voice, giving them space, not physically touching them.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Gum, if people get the.
Speaker 8 (32:17):
Urge, like grind their teeth, chapstick, if people are having drymouths,
if someone's passed up, not just assume that they're good.
I think in general it's like you can be so
sick if more of our cruising spaces had like a
de stimulation area, corner room just to go take a
little break.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
And so how should folks approach safety when it comes
to G and K. Are there safer use strategies that
harm reduction experts recommend.
Speaker 8 (32:43):
GHB is actually a like industrial chemical that is diluted
at different rates, So every time you get a new bottle,
it might be diluted to a different amount. And most
general harm reduction devices do a little and if you
don't feel it, you can do more.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
The whole thing with.
Speaker 8 (32:58):
Your GGB dough is that it also stacks in your
blood streams, so you actually want to wait like two
hours before you do more. The safest way to use
GHB is to get a tipless or oral syringe anytime
you have a new dose to a test which is
less than one milliliter, because it can be incredibly concentrated.
(33:20):
And again because it's an industrial chemical, never boof it,
never put it in your buttle.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yes, this is helpful information that I could have used
ten years ago, okay, because I was absolutely doing a
booty bounce with G and them.
Speaker 8 (33:34):
I mean I'm just like you can.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, you can, And I did care a lot and
she was effective. Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 8 (33:43):
Well, also, like people compared to alcohol a lot, and
it's like not basically like really good rule of thumb
is like if substances are feel kind of similar in
your body, like don't do a bunch of them at once.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (33:55):
So like GHB is like not technically an opiate, but
it is abous system suppressing, much like alcohol and ketamine
and benzos and opiates, So any of those combinations can
like really increase your risk of overdose passing out. GHB
also is like if you do it every day for
(34:15):
more than two weeks, you can get a chemical dependency
similar to alcohol. So just like making sure you're dosing
it out and rinsing your mouth out after it's an
abrasive or your or douching as an abrasive chemical.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Earlier this episode or other guest Joss mentioned that she
sets her time boundaries and tries to create optimal situations
for her chem sex experiences right like being very intentional
about dosage and frequency when out or an experience with
either friends or clients. Can developing a plan with your
friends or play partners prevent potential catastrophe in the evening.
Speaker 8 (34:50):
I think the whole thing with making a plan is
that it frees you up to actually have fun, worry free,
do your test bump, go slow, drink your water like GHB,
very consciously setting a timer if you know that you
don't want to stay past a certain time or you
don't want to take another dose, you can set an alarm.
With friends, you can just have kind of a one
(35:11):
off conversation of like if we're can continue to like
go out together, what's our safety plan? Like who's going
with who? Who's the buddy system? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
For sure.
Speaker 8 (35:21):
Truly don't use alone, which is hard because like all
the stigma's gone. You can just be by yourself and
like we all know the urge to, but don't use alone.
But never use alone hotline. Yes, it is a hotline.
You can call and someone with personal experience of substance
use will take down your location and stay on the
(35:41):
line with you as you take your dose, and if
you go silent, they will call an ambience. Like the
only way that people's lives are saved is because someone
else was there. Seventy percent of overdoses happen in people's
houses when they're alone. And I think it's like seventy
percent of overdoses out on the street in public are
reversed by other people who use drugs, not by paramedics,
(36:02):
not by passers by, Like we are keeping each other
each other alive.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Can you sort of talk about when harm reduction no
longer becomes enough and like what other types of recovery
are out there folks to investigate.
Speaker 8 (36:17):
My take on harm reduction is that it's not at
odds with recovery. It's that it's for people who are
choosing to use, want to use, and it's also for
people who kind of fall out of their recovery. You know,
recovery is not linear, yeah, you know, yeah, and so
(36:39):
it's like it is there for preventing the worst. My
general thought is that like we all know deep down
when something is a problem for us, is the drug
doing what you want it to do? Because if the
point is to have fun and you're no longer having fun,
like that's the point where you can actually look up
in patient treatment programs that are covered by Medicare paid.
(37:00):
Twelve Step is kind of amazing and smart recovery. There's
also like Dharma Recovery, which is recovery Buddhist oriented. But
I think that these are amazing groups and that they
are some of our only free healthcare, and they have
that in common with harm reduction, is that they're like
this whole network of free mental health care that doesn't
exist for like any other thing, syringe exchange programs have
(37:22):
people who are there to help coordinate and set you
up for treatment. Like the whole point is that they're
there to support your autonomy and if you come to
them and say I want to stop doing this, they
will help.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
You get an appointment.
Speaker 8 (37:36):
Their social workers there whose job it is to do that.
But I think it is also like acknowledging when we're
talking about stigma, that it can take people nine times
to attempt recovery. That's why I always say, like harm
reduction is there for you to, like, try again if
you want to become abstinent.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
It's interesting in my own recovery journey, like I kind
of had wish that I had found harm reduction or
knew that it exists, did because you know, I was
out there during the worst for many years, but always
wanting to stop, you know, and I just didn't know
that there were options out there for me. And I
feel like if I had found harm reduction or probably
would have gotten to a place of surrender sooner, you know.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
Because that lack of judgment is like crucial. Yeah, people
getting right if they need to get right. We're all
making these choices in different circumstances, and we can trust.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Ourselves to keep ourselves well if we have the tools.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Amazing well increased. Thank you so much for still Thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. All Right,
when we come back, we'll be hearing a new cruising
confession from our snippies callin hotline, so you won't want
to miss it. We'll be right back to stay tuned.
Speaker 9 (38:45):
The park was hot, so I had a hook up
one night too, was weekednight. It was like a Tuesday
or something, and I just I had I had to
get some ass. So sound this guy and he's like, hey,
my friend is going to be driving me around.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
To hook up with no mutching guys.
Speaker 9 (39:10):
And I'm like, okay, whatever, you.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Know, he can drop you off, he can come in
and we'll you know, hang out.
Speaker 9 (39:17):
And he's like, no, no, no, We're just gonna do
car stuff, only car stuff.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I'm not coming inside. And I'm like, all right, that's
not usually my thing, but I just had to do it.
So I ended up sucking this guy in the back
of an suv in my driveway with his friend sitting
in the driver's seat.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
What you enjoyed it?
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I have a good one.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Oh that's like, hey, mom, can you drive me the
soccer practice?
Speaker 8 (39:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I feels so weird.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I would totally fuck someone in their car if they
were on my property, if they were on my driveway,
I would do that. That's like way more private than
like just like being in like a Walmart parking lot,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Okay, Chris, Well, all right, I.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Mean I'm not saying I have, but I'm like, if
the house is right there, the.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
House is right there.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
But if that's not the FEEDI.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
No, I'm not into car play.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, why what is it that like knocks that out
for you?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, I'm an elder, and so the positions that you
must get into don't only.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Be a horse and buggy?
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Do you not a car?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
I'm saying I need a bed, I need comfortability. I
need to be able to lie down, like contorting yourself
in a car and having sex.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I'm so sorry, baby, my sexual skill set was forged
in the backseat of cars.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
You're also a smaller person than I am.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Well, yeah, that is true.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
All right. If you want to hear your own cruising
confessions on an upcoming episode of this podcast, you can
call our cruising Confessions hotline at three zero two two
one nine three eight nine eight. That's three zero two
two one nine three eight nine eights.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Just please call us and tell us about hooking up
on any mode of transportation. I promise I on like
Chris will not judge you. All right, this episode was
amazing for me.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
That's really great.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I really love that we manage to fit two gets
into this episode because, like, I love Joss's perspective. I
think she approaches talking about come sex and drug use
from a kind of like creative, playful, comedic perspective, and
that's not a thing that we often associate with drug use.
I think a lot of times the stigma implies that
(41:27):
everybody who uses drugs is struggling and capable of keeping
their life together. And it's interesting to see which drugs
people pick and choose to say that about, because you know,
we all make jokes about finance bros. To do cocaine
and no one's.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Like they've got a problem.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, some of them do, a lot of them do.
But like again, it's understanding that drug use and even
things that come sex can be a spectrum.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yes, and then Grace was lovely racism with all of
their knowledge and information around harm reduction.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I think everybody around the world should have thirty minutes
with Grace before they go out to party. Oh Gott,
you're right co host for this. I think between you
and Grace, you both brought such a holistic perspective on
like what folks can do to keep themselves safe, whether
that means farm production, whether that means a twelve step
program or recovery program, again, whatever that word means, because
it can mean many different things to different people, and
(42:14):
I learned that today.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Well here we are, well, here we are now.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah, I do just want to take a moment to
think both our guests today, Joss Barton and Grace one
more time because they were incredible.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Sniffy's Cruisy Confessions is directed by Adam Barron, produced by
Amanda Kuper and Cameron Femino, and executive produced by Eli Martin.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Cruising Confessions is within by Snippy's, the ultimate map based
cruising platform, were Gay by Thin Curious Peetrol Ready to
Bruise Check out the map at snippies dot com and
ball Sniche's at Snippy's app.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Cruisers are a community.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Do your part in keeping us safe.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Learn more about protecting your sexual health at Healthy Sexuals
dot com.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Let job put, Job Put jo
Hey, viewers.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about queer sex.
Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities. If
hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more offends
your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer discretion
is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Put your pussy up, put your put your pussy up,
Put your pussy up. Put put your pussy up.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm Gabelon Sadez and I'm christatason Rosso. Each week we
explore the sublime world of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
We talk to queer folks of all kinds. We'll ask
some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide
practical advice that you can use at home.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Let Joy, put put Yo pussy, put Joe, put put Jo.
Put put your pup.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hey listeners. Today's episode features frank and unfiltered discussions about
substance use, addiction, and chem sex.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
The opinions expressed in this episode do not reflect the
values or release of Snap.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Sniffy's does not recommend the use of chemical substances during
sexual scenarios, and this episode should not be taken as
an endorsement of the behaviors or practices discussed.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Drugs are illegal and can cause a host of negative
physical and behavioral effects, both short and long term.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
If you think you might be triggered or upset by
this conversation, skip this episode and come back next week.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So, Chris, yes game.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I was told you'd be celebrating a big anniversary soon.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I will. Yeah, in July twenty eighth, I'll have ten
years of sobriety. That's amazing. Congratulations, Thank you so much.
It's kind of weird to think about, Like, I don't
feel like I'm that old.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You've been very open on the show, conversations on and
off camera about your sobriety. And there is a hashtag
on every social media post that you make. Could you
share what it is? Yes, it is sexy Sober Devians.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
That sounds like a TLC single.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What was the origin story of Sexy Sober Divian?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I started using Crystal math when I was fifteen, and
I did that for fifteen years. Sex started around the
same time as my matthews did, and so I never
really had sober sex. When I finally decided that I
needed to get sober and was willing to do whatever
that took. I was really worried the stories that I
(02:18):
was hearing because I do twelve step. A lot of
folks were saying that, like sex was the thing that
took them out. Whenever sex would come up, they would
end up just using meth again, and I really was
afraid of that. What I ended up doing was talking
to a lot of people who had more sober references
for sex than I did. Specifically around the sexual practices
that I engage in, like the biggest sex, etc. Like
(02:39):
that stuff is connected a lot of times to drugs,
and I wanted to be able to still do those
things because I'm not vanilla. My best is not who
I No, it's not, and so I really wanted to
be able to engage in those things. And getting to
reclaim that in sobriety has been one of the most
(03:01):
empowering things for me. Now you know, almost ten years later,
I can honestly say there are things that I have
done or things that I like to do that like
I never thought i'd be able to do sober, and
I do them sober just fine, even better actually, because
I'm definitely more present and connected to those people.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I love that now, Chris, you're our non binary body
on set. Yes, I'm wondering, is there any connection between
your sobriety journey and your gender journey.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I didn't realize how much of my use was connected
to my gender dysphoria until I got sober. The language
that we had around gender diversity has changed. Oh, twenty
five years ago when I was expressing my gender in
different ways, but there wasn't language around it, and there
wasn't spaces where I could talk about it. So much
of my use was around suppressing the dysphoria that I
(03:50):
was feeling, sure and not understanding that that's what I
was doing. And so when I came into sobriety and
started making connections with other trands and gender diverse folks,
it became very clear to me that like, I am
neither male or female. Had I not got sober, I
wouldn't have had that clarity of mind, and also that
(04:11):
curiosity to sort of like investigate what else is going
on here in my brain? I don't know, it kind
of changed my life.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well, it sounds like I mean, once you kind of
open the floodgates to be radically honest with yourself about
one thing, it's like, how do you stop that?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Like you just kind of have to confront your full self. Yes,
we are having this conversation, of course, because we hear
a lot about chem sex or P and P which
stands for party in play as a huge problem in
the LGBTQ community, But most of the time the focus
is solely on gay men.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
We don't hear many people talking about the role that
kim sex plays on trans and non binary people.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
First, we'll be talking with Joss Barton, a poet and
performance artist who makes brilliant work inspired by her own
experience in what she calls the Life.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Then we'll be talking to a harm reduction advocate who
will offers ffety strategies for folks who party and play.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So let's meet our first guest. Joss Barton is a poet, journalist, curator,
and spoken word performance artist whose work examines trans women's
lives from a historical, political, and pop culture perspective, exploring
how they live, grieve, moarn, and party.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Her debut full length collection of poems, Goodbye to a Dream,
Believed is being published by Feature Poem Books and Spring
of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
She also co stars in the upcoming feature film Dreams
in Nightmares, directed by Shatara Michelle Ford. Please welcome to
Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, Joss Barton, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
For having me. I'm so excited, said I can feel
the energy now.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Son. Earlier, Gabe asked me about how sobriety and my
gender journey are sort of connected. What role do substances
play in your gender journey?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Well, I decided to transition because of an acid trip period.
The first time I did acid. Yeah, So I was
on this gay queer camping trip. I had never done
acid before, and I actually had very little experience with
like like drugs like it. I mean, I was always
like obsessed with through a culture and artists that were
very heavy into drugs, but like the most that I
(06:13):
would get into was like some really good marijuana. So
I really was very new to substances. And we dropped
acid and it was like the most amazing transformative experience,
like tripping in like gorgeous nature. We were all in
a river, so it was like okay, time to clean up,
like let's make dinner. And I'm like, no, I need
(06:33):
I need more time in the water and in the wood.
So I'm just like by myself in the woods, tripping balls,
and all of a sudden, everything around me becomes like
a humanoid like figure, like the trees, the bushes, the clouds,
and everything's fucking around me. So so I'm like just
(06:54):
standing there and I'm just like looking up at the
sky and it just kind of like hit me. I
was like, oh, you're trans Oh you get back to civilization,
You're like you're starting transition.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
So that was kind of like my awakening.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
So when I'm walking back to the camp site, I like, obviously,
you know, gaze in the woods. They fought, so like
i walk up on these guys fucking and I'm like, oh,
I just found out I'm a woman. I want to
I want to see if I can join it. Like
so I'm like asking them, like what's up, how y'all
do it?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
This looks hot?
Speaker 5 (07:25):
And they're just like ignoring me, and I'm like okay,
So I'm like getting a little bit closer. I'm like hey,
like I'm I'm a tranny.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Like what's up?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
What's good?
Speaker 5 (07:35):
And They're still ignoring me, and I get up on
them and my eyes adjust from the drugs and the darkness,
and it was just three huge piles of trash bags
by steaming flies, and I'm just like standing there staring
at the trash, and I'm like, I am a woman,
(07:56):
trash I am awoke.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I feel like the experience would have been the same
if they were living gay men as well. Right, I know, Oh,
you were being ignored by gay men. You are a woman.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
I felt like so real and cut in that moment. So, yeah,
drugs are like they kind of open my mind. Sometimes
I use substances to write, sometimes I use it to perform.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It's just a tool like anything else.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
And it's something that you can like get too deep
in and you can put maybe too much importance on it.
Let's just say, I don't need the substances to be me,
but when I am on a substance, this is like
times three thousands, So sometimes I can be too much
for people.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, I can relate to that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I'm wondering anecdotally, at least, do you find that substance
use in chem sex differs when looking at the gay
community and the trans community.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
My introduction into chemseex was like right at the turning
point from like Lee being gay boy faggot life into
like full on transition. Since then, I would say most
of my KIM sex situations tend.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
To be a little bit more like one on one.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
If you're in sex works, there are clients that look
for like sex workers specifically to do drugs with, Like
that's that's like a kink for some people. Some sex
workers that's like a big boundaries, Like you know, you
could do whatever you want in front of me, but
I'm not going to participate. And then there are girls
like me. Sometimes it's like okay, let's wrack it up.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I have a clean fight, let's do this.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I think transmit and sis queer guys like Sometimes it's
more of a group session.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We all know about the meth orgies because.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
But I buy invite to the meth orgies gets lost
in the mail every time, so I don't get to
enjoy those like scenes. But I've had some amazing hot
sex with partners specifically looking for transforms. It's usually like
a one on one situation which has its benefits has
(10:08):
its cons like as opposed maybe in a group setting,
I have to kind of feel it out on my
own and really like take it slowly with the chem
sex play because maybe I don't know this person that well.
My trade and my pieces might find an annoying, but
I'm constantly like, okay, how we feeling.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I would rather be.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Hyper vigilant about my own sense of like safety and security,
because if I'm with someone and they're just so tweaked
twact out that it's just getting weird, I'm just going
ahead and like, let's go ahead and let me pack
up my shit.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
It's interesting, like hearing you talk about and describing these situations,
I'm realizing so much about myself and like my own
hypervigilance around how quickly I am able to like assess
in a situation. And I'm realizing it's coming from my
kim sex use and the sex work that I did
for many years. It's like I need to be able
to like look at you and as that's what's going
(11:03):
down and then split second, right, all those like survival
skills that I learned while I was like doing sex
and sex work.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
So it's like a real life thing for people in
that life. It's a real thing. It's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Jos, I want to hear a bit about your creative process.
You do drag and performance, you write poetry, all about
a term that's been around for a very long time,
the life. For our listeners who might not be familiar
with the term, what is the life and how does
your artwork take audiences inside that experience.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
So it's a term that definitely has a lot of
roots in queer culture and it really comes from a
time when there was still a lot of stigma, there
was still laws against how we can live. And it
really is rooted in the experiences of sex workers, the
ball room scene, and street queens and other fagots just
(11:58):
wanted to live their lives so authentically that like assimilation
was not a choice, and that means you are at
higher risk for not having maybe the best job or
having to be an underground economy that was just kind
of like a sacrifice you had to make. And I
think that term has evolved because we have more opportunities.
(12:19):
We obviously are commodified in a lot of ways, so
being in the life has changed a lot. It might
have more of a I guess connection to ballroom scene realness,
being bad, being sickening me in the night life scene.
But it really comes from like bitches that were bricky,
that were street queens that just had no other choice.
So that's kind of what my poetry kind of examines.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Absolutely, And there's a lot of history that seems like
it is repeating.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
Nah, well, I mean a lot of this stuff still exists,
right yeah, especially for trans women, Like a lot of
the barriers are still there, a lot of them are
making a comeback talking about the life I think still
has a lot of validity right now.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
So that's what I try to do.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Speaking of your work, we do actually have a short
excerpt of one of your performances, and for folks listening,
we should say that in this clip, jos is wearing
a two piece bikini, a statue of liberty headcrown while
holding a torch in one hand and her poem in
the other. Just to set the scene for you all.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
In Helle, the Transsexual Oracle mets smoke through the yellow
glass strawberry pipe. Pretend these holy come mornings are your
transsexual passage. Listen to the stories of drug dolls and
let the mothers guide you to.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
The end of the world. I pledge of allegiance to.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
The bags of the United Dolls of Dystopia and to
the Republic for rent it rotts what Fippy Undra goddess And.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
That's so that's the gist of it.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
It's pretty awesome how you combine both poetry and drag
like it's kind of iconic.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
I like to make a spectacle as much as I
can when it comes to the poetry, the performance are
at the drag the improv. I used to do an
improv bit where I pretended like Hunter Biden was calling
my phone and I'm like husting Hunter out because he
owe me money. He smoked on my map. So it's
a spectacle, it's really all it is.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I'm obsessed. I love that. What kind of effect does
talking openly about substance using your performances have on your
own usage? And how do your audiences respond to this material.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
I was noticing in the beginning that if I was
engaging Kim sex or is engaging in P and P play,
I would get like really like secretive about it. I'd
be very ashamed about it, and then I didn't want
anyone to know. And so the next chance I had
to have that scenario, I would go full force, like
really take it there and I just kept noticing this pattern,
(15:03):
and then one day I was like, what if I'm
just start telling people that I like to smoke meth,
and I like to get.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Game banged, and I like to do all these things.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
You know, what if I'm honest about it and also
integrate it into the work. It definitely helped me dismantle
the internalized stigma and shame I had with it, which
then in turn allowed me to interact in those kim
sex moments in a more healthier way where maybe I
wasn't feeling super ashamed and so therefore I didn't feel
(15:33):
like I needed to really binge. I'm not the first normal,
I'd be the last tranny talking about smoking meth.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
With a client.
Speaker 5 (15:43):
But I wanted to highlight, you know, a lived experience
that is based in a lot of truth, and hopefully
people that also have that lived experience can see a
little bit of their lives reflected in a way that's
presented with dignity, whether it's the good shit shit, the joy,
the grief, the love, the ecstasy of it all.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And it seems like the media does seem to prioritize
narratives of sobriety for queer and trans people. But so
many of the amazing pioneering transactivists that we know from
history were trans women who were also in the life,
as you put it, and unable to access that type
of media friendly sobriety story in the world they lived in.
So I'm wondering what kind of stigma do you think
people affixed to trans women when they find out they
(16:27):
use substances.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
The stigma that.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
Is attached to us is a stigma that really like
cuts to.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
The heart of our worth as human beings.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
So many people have been focused on this trans panic
that is like directed directly at trans women, specifically black
and brown trans women. They're affixing these sense of like,
we're dangerous, but we're violent, we have issues with drugs,
and we all do sex work and YadA, YadA, YadA, Right,
(16:57):
and so there's just all this stigma so that if
you are trans women using drugs, like it's hard to
be open and honest about your usage because you already
have so much pre conceived notions about who you are
that that's the last thing maybe you want to talk
about to someone. Yeah, I've had girlfriends that you know,
It wasn't until I told them about my usage that
(17:20):
they actually were like, oh, I actually also have had
problems with substances, and so it's hard for trans women
to even be honest with each other. I feel like
if we can talk more honestly about it, maybe we
can keep some of our trans women here longer and
healthier kind of existences where even if they are still using,
(17:44):
they're doing it in a way that's going to keep
them alive.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
And that honesty is so important, right, Because I think,
particularly about Sylvia Rivera, I think a lot of her
drug use, her working as a sex worker sort of
erase from her legacy because people are it might devalue
her right as a queer icon. So these are things
that I don't think have been talked about recently, and
it doesn't decrease her contributions to the queer community, right,
(18:09):
Like the fact that she was so committed to homeless
career youth, to supporting other queer trends sex workers is
because she lived that experience and knew the dangerous people
face and the lack of resources. So to me, that's
such an important part of her legacy. It doesn't make
her less valuable. If anything, it makes it important, right,
it makes us aware of why her presence was so valuable.
You're so right, So justin, I would imagine that you
(18:37):
might have some stories about come sex that are wild
and outrageous. I'm wondering if you could share a story
that was memorable for you that kind of left an
impression on you, preferably not something too bad.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Oh, I was using with the partner that I engage
almost exclusively in chem sex with them, And he did
have a cockering or any biagra or anything.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So if it was is not aware.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
Sometimes substances like crystal like you can't get it up,
so whether you.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Need trimex cockering something.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
And he was just looking around, like digging through all
these like closets and drawers, couldn't find a cockering.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
He's like, oh, I have a zip tie. You think
that one?
Speaker 5 (19:19):
I said, bab, I don't think you should do the
zip tie. He's like, I'm just gonna try it.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Mind you.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
This man is very hung so he has this zip
tie around his ball sec and his huge dick and
it's quickly cutting off his circulation and he starts freaking out.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
We're tweaked out, mind you. So we had to then search.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
No no, no, no, I'm.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Sit there doing like I feel like if a grades anatomy,
do an operation.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So I was like, you gotta hold still.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
I was like, my hands are covered in loop, your
dick is covered like you're gonna have to be still.
So then you know, I just, you know, carefully sniffed
off the zip tie.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
You did it? Yeah, I had to.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
I had to cut off the tie and it was
on their tight like I really had to, like like
do some surgical like maneuvers.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Y'all have it like a shoelace. We just use a shoelaces.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Never, I never heard of that one.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
A shoelace.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh baby.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
The other thing about Kim sakes the faggots have ingenuity.
Speaker 7 (20:25):
When period resourceful. We will figure it out, they will, Jos.
We did talk about this earlier. The government is waging
a full out war on trans people.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
We all know this. We know this. Yeah, just a reminder.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I am wondering again, from your perspective, as someone that
does use substances, do you think you've seen an increase
in substance use among your friends or even among clients.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
The partying is increasing, the substances are increasing, for sure,
which I think is a test to how people are
feeling right now, like this shit is really bad, so
let's just party, party, party. But I also think like
people are stepping up to try to like fill in
those holes of care because we're definitely not getting it
(21:14):
from the government with the way the government is targeting,
not just us, but like the people that care for
us who are quickly losing access to PREP, we're quickly
losing access to risk mitigation. It's becoming other people in
the community stepping up to care for people that are
using and care for sex workers. So I think that's
(21:36):
definitely something I'm seeing for sure. I think for me,
my use is actually dropped significantly simply because I know
how stigmatized trans women are becoming right now, and so
I kind of have decided, like I want a little
bit more of a clear mind frame.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
But that's just me.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I'm wondering if you can give our listeners sort of
an idea of how you would explain or interpret harm reduction.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Harm reduction basically comes out of the age crisis and
people trying to mitigate not just HIV infections at the
time when there was no way to mitigate it, but
also how to assist people that were even on the
margins of that epidemic, so intervene you drug users, sex workers,
(22:26):
and obviously queer bin Now it encompasses everything from nightlife
to party scenes, to sex work to trans folks, which
I think is amazing. Harm reduction for me looks and
feels like really checking in with yourself and with your
partner when you're in these scenes, making sure that you
(22:46):
can find a way to feel safe in those situations.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I think that's harm reduction.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
Making sure you're checking with your body and also making
sure you're checking in with the substances you're using, testing
your drug ugs not using alone, making sure you know
how to use narcan, making sure if you're using intravenously,
having access to clean, fresh needles. I mean, and for me,
I just like you know, I set timers say, because
(23:17):
like you know, like you can be in a kimsex
situation and like next thing you know, it's the next day.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It's three days later, girl, let's be.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Three days later.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
I'm a big proponent of I have a hard it
and I have a hard out, So yeah, I just
find a lot of inspiration from people that really do
the heavy lifting of harm reduction in our communities.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
I love those people. I think they're saints.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
But harm reduction also springs out of this realization that
shaming people out of behavior is never going to get.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Them to stop.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Right Exactly, if you stigmatize the behavior, it simply goes underground.
It gets harder to reduce the harm that it can cause.
Right now, it is crazy to me that are Secretary
of Hell is a recovering addict and is cutting off
access to harm reduction, cutting off access to drugs like
milock zone also known as NARCAN, trying to limit access
(24:08):
to PREP, trying to limit safe injection sites, and we
know what happens when these things happen. Mike Pence was
a governor of Indiana, shut down a bunch of safe
injection sites and harm reduction places, and then guess what happened.
We saw the race of HIV and AIDS skyrocket in
that state. There are so many case studies, and it
drives me crazy that people are like, We're just going
to pretend it doesn't exist and it will stop.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
The harm reduction requires communal support. What we're seeing in
this administration is an intentional dismantling of communities, because if
we don't have community with each other, we're just going
to feel so dejected and so much despair. Will go
along with anything that they tell us to go along with,
and you neique community for energy and uplifting and like
(24:50):
support and love and care.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
For sure, I'm so excited for the world we live in.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, wait till we have to order Narcan off Amazon.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
That's like the only place want to get.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Do you find that people you're playing with are practicing
safer sex, whether that means condoms or.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
Prep Considering that a lot of my partners are quote
unquote straight trends attracted men, I would say most straight
men are definitely not thinking about it. You'll talk to
these men and they're like, I have one was the
last time you were tested? And I'll be like, oh,
you know, I could like to get tested every three months.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
They're like, oh, yeah, I got tested like two years ago,
three years ago. Like as if that is, like, sir, exactly, sir.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
The straight chaser world, they really need some education.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
They need a lot more education.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
I quickly learned like I just had to really focus
on my status and my health, using condoms, using prep,
staying on top of my testing schedules, because like, you
can't really rely on your partner in these situations.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Now, granted I.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
Am a piggy, but the man i'm in game and
may not consider themselves piggy correct, So as a piggy,
I kind of already kind of like trained to think
about these things.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Earlier, you talked a bit about your forthcoming book, Goodbye
to a Dream Believed, which is being published in spring
of twenty twenty six, and it starts with a dedication
I wanted to read it goes. These are not recovery poems.
These are not sobriety poems. These are survival poems. Could
you talk a bit more about survival and why you
started the book with this dedication.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
As a transsexual woman in America right now, survival is
centered on not just me surviving, but my sisters surviving.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I don't see the point of living.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
In a world where I don't have my sisters and
I don't have a sister out of trans women. That
survival like line was really tied to just me thinking
and sitting with the trans women in my life that
I've lost and trans women that I have never known,
and will never know that we also like lost, whether
through violence or through drugs, because trans survival is not
(27:07):
just surviving outward violence, but surviving the violence of indifference
and apathy, which can manifest itself in drug addiction suicide.
And also I wanted to start the book off with
that dedication because so much of that book was written
while I was in a heavier throw of kim sex use,
(27:29):
and I was just a way for me to be like,
you know, I'm not here to write about being sober
because I'm not, and I'm not here to write about
being a recovery because I'm not.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
But I'm alive.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
I made it up to this point, so I wanted
to write something about survival in that sense.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
All right, incredible, Well, Joss Sedley, We're at the end
of our time with you.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
We had so much, believe so I.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Am really grateful that you got a chance to talk
with us in chat. So thank you for sharing your story.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
And I can't wait for my Sniffies in box to
be flooded.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But again, thank you so much. I had a blast.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
This is a fab Thank you so much. Thank you, Joss,
your fab All right, coming up, We talked to harm
reduction advocate and expert about strategies for meth, GHB and more.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
In our last act, we talked about how Josh developed
a personal harm reduction approach that involved setting boundaries and intentions.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So in this act we're getting into the nitty gritty
of harm reduction.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
These are potentially life saving tips that anyone should pay
attention to if they wind up in situations where people
are partying.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Let's welcome our guests. Grace is a harm reduction advocate
and an enthusiast who works with a few different groups
around New York City.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So Grace, let's start at the beginning for our listeners.
How would you define harm reduction and what drew you
to become involved in this work.
Speaker 8 (28:40):
I started volunteering in Syringe Exchange when I decided to
stay in New York because I was like, well, if
I'm going to stay here, I'm going to actually like
be in the community. My baseline definition of harm reduction
is like it's the opposite of everything going on in
our world, and that it is actually giving people what
they need without cost or judgment, and it's giving peace
people a version of free health care that actually empowers
(29:03):
them to basically take ownership over something that may feel
uncontrollable for themselves. People talk about like wearing bi commets
is harm reduction, They talk about wearing seatbelts is harm reduction.
But ultimately, for me, what harm reduction actually was and
still is is the act of like syringe exchange or
safe supply exchange. For whatever substance there is, there's kind
(29:24):
of a safer way to do it. Most cities have
syringe exchange programs. If you're sniffing any sort of party drug,
you can get a safer sniffing kit which will provide
you with a sterile card and then individual straws. These
are harm reduction tools. If you have had any chemically
dependent relationship with any substance, you know that it's like
people aren't going to stop because they don't have access
to a sterile tool.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I think one of the major harm reduction tools that's
become well known over the past few years is naloxone,
which is used to revive people who are experienced in
opiod overdose and drug testing strips for a fentanyl or
a xylazine. Are there comparable harm reduction strategies or treatments
for folks who are engaging in consects partying using stimulants
like crystal math or cocaine.
Speaker 8 (30:02):
People mostly know about narcan because they're really afraid of ventanyl.
Ventanyl is primarily found in things that are sold as opiates.
New York has a pretty incredible drug checking program where
you can take your substances to a syringe exchange site
and get it tested for free and anonymously. But for
the most part, cocaine, ketamine, JHB, crystal meth, these have
(30:24):
way lower, if any, occurrences of ventanyl contamination. So when
we're talking about like chem sex and harm reduction for partying,
it's a little bit more about psychological safety. A stimulant
overdose as actually called an overamp. An overamp is not
necessarily life threatening in and of itself, but it can
(30:45):
involve things like seizures psychosis. When we're talking about harm
reduction strategies, it's mostly about preventing that kind of overamp.
And so you know, if you get tired while you're
using a stimulant, like trying to encourage yourself to sleep,
actually having about one glass of water an hour just
to keep yourself from overheating. Big thing in harm reduction
is the idea of safe supply. Like all these things
(31:08):
that we're terrified of, like fentanyl and xylazine and all
that stuff like that happens because our substances are so criminalized. Yea,
If people are getting drug tested, dealers are going to
come up with more chemical compounds that are not going
to show up on drug tests. And that's part of
why we have all these different contaminants. Until we advocate
for more of a safe supply for people, like, it's
(31:30):
kind of out of our hands, and so we have
to go to the next step, which is like how.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
We take care of each other.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Let's say you're in a cruising setting, whether it's a
kimsex party or just maybe out at a sex club
or darkroom, and you see someone who's acting agitated. How
do you calm them down safely?
Speaker 8 (31:45):
So like a stimulant overdose that is about like getting overheated,
getting too dehydrated, as well as potentially experiencing some paranoia, psychosis,
rapid heartbeat, panic attack. If people are agitated, as you say,
like not making someone feel singled out, if you are
even asking them are you good and they're obviously not good?
(32:06):
You know it can make them a little more paranoid
that everyone can see them. So just kind of asking
them where they want to go, what they need, using
a low voice, giving them space, not physically touching them.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Gum, if people get the.
Speaker 8 (32:17):
Urge, like grind their teeth, chapstick, if people are having drymouths,
if someone's passed up, not just assume that they're good.
I think in general it's like you can be so
sick if more of our cruising spaces had like a
de stimulation area, corner room just to go take a
little break.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
And so how should folks approach safety when it comes
to G and K. Are there safer use strategies that
harm reduction experts recommend.
Speaker 8 (32:43):
GHB is actually a like industrial chemical that is diluted
at different rates, So every time you get a new bottle,
it might be diluted to a different amount. And most
general harm reduction devices do a little and if you
don't feel it, you can do more.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
The whole thing with.
Speaker 8 (32:58):
Your GGB dough is that it also stacks in your
blood streams, so you actually want to wait like two
hours before you do more. The safest way to use
GHB is to get a tipless or oral syringe anytime
you have a new dose to a test which is
less than one milliliter, because it can be incredibly concentrated.
(33:20):
And again because it's an industrial chemical, never boof it,
never put it in your buttle.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yes, this is helpful information that I could have used
ten years ago, okay, because I was absolutely doing a
booty bounce with G and them.
Speaker 8 (33:34):
I mean I'm just like you can.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, you can, And I did care a lot and
she was effective. Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 8 (33:43):
Well, also, like people compared to alcohol a lot, and
it's like not basically like really good rule of thumb
is like if substances are feel kind of similar in
your body, like don't do a bunch of them at once.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (33:55):
So like GHB is like not technically an opiate, but
it is abous system suppressing, much like alcohol and ketamine
and benzos and opiates, So any of those combinations can
like really increase your risk of overdose passing out. GHB
also is like if you do it every day for
(34:15):
more than two weeks, you can get a chemical dependency
similar to alcohol. So just like making sure you're dosing
it out and rinsing your mouth out after it's an
abrasive or your or douching as an abrasive chemical.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Earlier this episode or other guest Joss mentioned that she
sets her time boundaries and tries to create optimal situations
for her chem sex experiences right like being very intentional
about dosage and frequency when out or an experience with
either friends or clients. Can developing a plan with your
friends or play partners prevent potential catastrophe in the evening.
Speaker 8 (34:50):
I think the whole thing with making a plan is
that it frees you up to actually have fun, worry free,
do your test bump, go slow, drink your water like GHB,
very consciously setting a timer if you know that you
don't want to stay past a certain time or you
don't want to take another dose, you can set an alarm.
With friends, you can just have kind of a one
(35:11):
off conversation of like if we're can continue to like
go out together, what's our safety plan? Like who's going
with who? Who's the buddy system? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
For sure.
Speaker 8 (35:21):
Truly don't use alone, which is hard because like all
the stigma's gone. You can just be by yourself and
like we all know the urge to, but don't use alone.
But never use alone hotline. Yes, it is a hotline.
You can call and someone with personal experience of substance
use will take down your location and stay on the
(35:41):
line with you as you take your dose, and if
you go silent, they will call an ambience. Like the
only way that people's lives are saved is because someone
else was there. Seventy percent of overdoses happen in people's
houses when they're alone. And I think it's like seventy
percent of overdoses out on the street in public are
reversed by other people who use drugs, not by paramedics,
(36:02):
not by passers by, Like we are keeping each other
each other alive.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Can you sort of talk about when harm reduction no
longer becomes enough and like what other types of recovery
are out there folks to investigate.
Speaker 8 (36:17):
My take on harm reduction is that it's not at
odds with recovery. It's that it's for people who are
choosing to use, want to use, and it's also for
people who kind of fall out of their recovery. You know,
recovery is not linear, yeah, you know, yeah, and so
(36:39):
it's like it is there for preventing the worst. My
general thought is that like we all know deep down
when something is a problem for us, is the drug
doing what you want it to do? Because if the
point is to have fun and you're no longer having fun,
like that's the point where you can actually look up
in patient treatment programs that are covered by Medicare paid.
(37:00):
Twelve Step is kind of amazing and smart recovery. There's
also like Dharma Recovery, which is recovery Buddhist oriented. But
I think that these are amazing groups and that they
are some of our only free healthcare, and they have
that in common with harm reduction, is that they're like
this whole network of free mental health care that doesn't
exist for like any other thing, syringe exchange programs have
(37:22):
people who are there to help coordinate and set you
up for treatment. Like the whole point is that they're
there to support your autonomy and if you come to
them and say I want to stop doing this, they
will help.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
You get an appointment.
Speaker 8 (37:36):
Their social workers there whose job it is to do that.
But I think it is also like acknowledging when we're
talking about stigma, that it can take people nine times
to attempt recovery. That's why I always say, like harm
reduction is there for you to, like, try again if
you want to become abstinent.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
It's interesting in my own recovery journey, like I kind
of had wish that I had found harm reduction or
knew that it exists, did because you know, I was
out there during the worst for many years, but always
wanting to stop, you know, and I just didn't know
that there were options out there for me. And I
feel like if I had found harm reduction or probably
would have gotten to a place of surrender sooner, you know.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
Because that lack of judgment is like crucial. Yeah, people
getting right if they need to get right. We're all
making these choices in different circumstances, and we can trust.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Ourselves to keep ourselves well if we have the tools.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Amazing well increased. Thank you so much for still Thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. All Right,
when we come back, we'll be hearing a new cruising
confession from our snippies callin hotline, so you won't want
to miss it. We'll be right back to stay tuned.
Speaker 9 (38:45):
The park was hot, so I had a hook up
one night too, was weekednight. It was like a Tuesday
or something, and I just I had I had to
get some ass. So sound this guy and he's like, hey,
my friend is going to be driving me around.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
To hook up with no mutching guys.
Speaker 9 (39:10):
And I'm like, okay, whatever, you.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Know, he can drop you off, he can come in
and we'll you know, hang out.
Speaker 9 (39:17):
And he's like, no, no, no, We're just gonna do
car stuff, only car stuff.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I'm not coming inside. And I'm like, all right, that's
not usually my thing, but I just had to do it.
So I ended up sucking this guy in the back
of an suv in my driveway with his friend sitting
in the driver's seat.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
What you enjoyed it?
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I have a good one.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Oh that's like, hey, mom, can you drive me the
soccer practice?
Speaker 8 (39:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I feels so weird.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I would totally fuck someone in their car if they
were on my property, if they were on my driveway,
I would do that. That's like way more private than
like just like being in like a Walmart parking lot,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Okay, Chris, Well, all right, I.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Mean I'm not saying I have, but I'm like, if
the house is right there, the.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
House is right there.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
But if that's not the FEEDI.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
No, I'm not into car play.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
No, why what is it that like knocks that out
for you?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, I'm an elder, and so the positions that you
must get into don't only.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Be a horse and buggy?
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Do you not a car?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
I'm saying I need a bed, I need comfortability. I
need to be able to lie down, like contorting yourself
in a car and having sex.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I'm so sorry, baby, my sexual skill set was forged
in the backseat of cars.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
You're also a smaller person than I am.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Well, yeah, that is true.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
All right. If you want to hear your own cruising
confessions on an upcoming episode of this podcast, you can
call our cruising Confessions hotline at three zero two two
one nine three eight nine eight. That's three zero two
two one nine three eight nine eights.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Just please call us and tell us about hooking up
on any mode of transportation. I promise I on like
Chris will not judge you. All right, this episode was
amazing for me.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
That's really great.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I really love that we manage to fit two gets
into this episode because, like, I love Joss's perspective. I
think she approaches talking about come sex and drug use
from a kind of like creative, playful, comedic perspective, and
that's not a thing that we often associate with drug use.
I think a lot of times the stigma implies that
(41:27):
everybody who uses drugs is struggling and capable of keeping
their life together. And it's interesting to see which drugs
people pick and choose to say that about, because you know,
we all make jokes about finance bros. To do cocaine
and no one's.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Like they've got a problem.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, some of them do, a lot of them do.
But like again, it's understanding that drug use and even
things that come sex can be a spectrum.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yes, and then Grace was lovely racism with all of
their knowledge and information around harm reduction.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I think everybody around the world should have thirty minutes
with Grace before they go out to party. Oh Gott,
you're right co host for this. I think between you
and Grace, you both brought such a holistic perspective on
like what folks can do to keep themselves safe, whether
that means farm production, whether that means a twelve step
program or recovery program, again, whatever that word means, because
it can mean many different things to different people, and
(42:14):
I learned that today.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Well here we are, well, here we are now.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah, I do just want to take a moment to
think both our guests today, Joss Barton and Grace one
more time because they were incredible.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Sniffy's Cruisy Confessions is directed by Adam Barron, produced by
Amanda Kuper and Cameron Femino, and executive produced by Eli Martin.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Cruising Confessions is within by Snippy's, the ultimate map based
cruising platform, were Gay by Thin Curious Peetrol Ready to
Bruise Check out the map at snippies dot com and
ball Sniche's at Snippy's app.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Cruisers are a community.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Do your part in keeping us safe.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Learn more about protecting your sexual health at Healthy Sexuals
dot com.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Let job put, Job Put jo
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