Cyrus Norcross, Former Army Ranger and Award-Winning Journalist

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.
You're listening to soft web Radio Special Operations, Military Nails
and straight talk with the guys in the community.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome back to another wonderful episode of soft Rep Radio.
I am the man behind the glasses rad your host,
and I'm gonna do someth I'm gonna leave him off
for this episode. I'm gonna give my guests some eye
contact during this as best I can because he's got
a really cool story. But before we get into Cyrus's story,
I want to remind you about our merch store. All Right,

(00:58):
you guys know that we rely on you and listening
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(01:18):
If you don't enjoy my club, just go read a
band book or a book. Okay, go read a book.
I dare you. Now with that said, I have former
Army ranger I think first Ranger, first Battalion first first,
probably first, Prices first is the best of the rangers.
Hold on also Navajo Nation journalist freelancer. Okay, so he

(01:38):
writes and goes after, you know, stories for the Navajo Nation.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Cyrus Norcross, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me
around and listen to the podcast quite a bit. So
glad to be here.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
It's glad.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I'm glad to have you here.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Really honestly, it's it's awesome now. As you know, on
the podcast, I like to talk to my guests a
little bit about like where you came from. So as
a young man and Cyrus, you know, we touch base
that you were a ranger, what led you to wanting
to get into the military in the first place, and
where where'd you come from? Were you are you from
the reservation? Did you live in the city. Can you
tell us a little bit about your backstory and how
you got in the military.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah, so I grew up in Arizona on a Navaho Nation.
I grew up on and off. My family was really
big into one of my family had military history, like
a lot of my family served and well I've heard
stories going away back before the Spanish derived like hearing
stories of like one of my great great great great
grandfathers killing a chief son, taking his horse and then

(02:37):
keeping it. And then that's kind of how our name
kind of got about our traditional name. I should say
a gray horse basically like means like the one who
killed a guy for the gray horse, or like the
guy who took the gray horses kind of like that,
so it goes back. Yeah, and then we Dabajo scouts.
And then like one of our uncles was like the

(02:59):
uncle's of my great great grandfather's was searching for pontra Villa,
like during that time World War one had people going.
Then Bold War two came, so that's where my grandpa
was at and he wasn't he wasn't a coo talker,
but he he was in the North African campaign. So

(03:20):
he was out there with Third Id and like he's thought,
I thought Ronald, and then he thought Italy.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah yeah yeah. Rommel's books of like how to Fare Wars,
you know, swarts costs, like I read everything, cool book,
you know, and here's your grandfather, yeah kicking his ass
read book yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Like and from there, like you know, my my uncle
with the Vietnam it was in Quison when that all
went down. My dad was My dad was in the eighties,
so it was like during the Cold War time, but
he was green ray and he got to do some
cool stuff and yeah, and then to me, so announce
me and so I've like, you know, heard all those
story is. Growing up, I was surrounded by World War

(04:03):
Two veterans as a kid because they would kind of
like you just see them as a kid because there's
there's so many of them back back then when I
was like eight ten years old, and just like they
would just like talk to me and had no idea
what they were talking about at the time. But then
nine to eleven happened, so that's kind of I was like, man,
I'm going to miss the war. I'm in seventh grade

(04:23):
or eighth grade, whatever it was, and I was like
and then fast forward a couple of years, I was like, oh,
I'm going to be able to you know, serve and
kind of keep that lineage going so right, and that's
when I joined tradition.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
So the Army did they come knocking on your door
or were you like, I want the Army? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
I was actually originally to go Marines just to just
to fiss my dad off. But I was talking to
this recruiter because the Marines weren't there, and so the
recruiter was like oh. I was like, well, my dad
was SF and I want to go Green Pray and
he's like, well, you're you're too young man, You're seventeen

(05:01):
right now. And I was like, well, what can I do.
He's like, you have to be twenty one to join
the s F. And he's like, well, he goes, I
can sign you up for an Option forty contract, which
is a Ranger contract. And I was like, you know, Ranger.
I was like, oh, okay, cool, yeah, I'll do that.
Like and what do they do? I didn't know what

(05:21):
really ranger was back then. And he was like, oh,
you've seen black Hawk Down. I was like, oh, yeah,
I've seen that. He's like, yeah, that's what That's what
a Ranger is. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, cool,
I'll do that. So that's how I got the Option
forty contract and next thing you know, I'm taking off
like a month after graduatings in high school.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Thanks a lot Colonel Danny McKnight of the Rangers that
was in black Hawk Down for inspiring do you see
black Hawk down, you see Danny mcnikee shot in the neck.
Did you see that? Do you see Matt Ever's been
repelling out of a black Hawk helicopter with RPGs. That's
what a Ranger does, right. Funny enough, those two guys
both play airsoft, which is wargames on a large whale. Yeah,

(05:59):
but another story, but so so Cyrus. Did you think
that the Rangers was what you thought the Rangers was
going to be?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I mean, like when you're going.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Through like indoctrination and you know, happened to sing the
Ranger creed probably up to your armpits and some swallow
of some whole hell.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
I don't know, am I assuming.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
You're not wrong? Well, I got to a Doctionnation program
Ranger Doctionation rip, and it was essentially what I thought
it would be, you know, just a lot of yelling,
a lot of doing, a lot of like I was like, oh, okay,
now now I'm in the Army. It's kind of like
what I thought. Like I not to brag, you know,
but I was like, it was a varsity cross country.

(06:40):
I was a varsity in wrestling, and I had a
I was a bull writer at the time. So like
I was when like when I was a kid, I
started doing still writing, CAF writing, got to high school
sort of bull writing, and then my dad was like, hey,
you got to choose, you know, for writing or high
school sports. I decided to go with high school sports.
But I would still hop on every once in a while,

(07:02):
and so I was like, wow, this is like, this
is cool, like this this is what I like, Like,
this is a challenge, and it was. It definitely was
like making us up in the middle of the night,
making us like go into formation middle of the night,
like ten minutes and there's like a five story four
story building, three stories I think it was, and like
people are just throwing their rucksacks and all their duffel

(07:23):
bags outside the window, trying to make formation on the blacktop,
and we never made the time.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Just do whatever cood to get out on time. Right,
So they're like giving you this impossible timeframe of mustard, Right,
that's what you're telling me, like roll call and they're
thirty seconds. You're like, dude, how jumping off the building
to try to be on time? Basically huh yeah, yeah,
just slattered information?

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Does that count, sir? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (07:51):
It was an interesting. It was an interesting time period.
Like they were always talking to this about the war.
So one of the things I vividly remember, member was
I went through the winter. So they made us crawl
through some water, made us crawl through waters his cold range,
and we ended up instead of like smoking us that night,

(08:11):
which is what we're all hoping to get smoked so
we can stay warm, they didn't smoke us. They made
us like walk through water, and they put us in
formation double alarm intervals and created a fire in front
of us. I could just giant bonfire, and they started
barbecuing in front of us. They started grabbing all our

(08:32):
like clean clothes and putting it down, and got our
sleeping bags, like warm sleeping bags and put them down
like hey, and they just started telling us or stories
like of Iraq Afghanistan at the evasion, a lot of
these dudes, and like they're just like, man, you can
quit right now. You can. You don't have to deal
with this. You don't have to deal with being in

(08:53):
the cold. You don't have to deal with any of
this anymore. You don't do aut to be hungry. You
can just go quit, be next to this warm fire
and warm sleeping bag, warm clothes and a burger and
they worried it were cooking burgers and people were just
like quit walking off and going quitting, and it was.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
It's like some kind of game show but not you know,
it's like yeah, yeah, mister beast is like I'll give
you a thousand dollars if you give up on this
million dollars. They're like you're like no, so close. He
just baited your brain, you know, and so well, good
job on making it through, you know, through the Ranger process.
And then you got put into the Ranger regiment. Right,
you went Ranger, So you didn't just get uh Jory,

(09:36):
you got put into the regiment and that is like
search and destroy.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Yeah yeah, I went to So I went to first Battalion,
went to first Battalion and went to Charlie Company. So
I was there and this big, big dude just like
everyone was like everyone I got there was like, yeah,
the place you didn't want to go with Charlie Company.
You don't want to go to Charlie Company. And I
end up getting Charlie Company. I just like this tall
all like six just like came out and like the dudes,

(10:03):
the dudes had just got deployed, and he's like, are
you guys, who's all this is all Cicco?

Speaker 3 (10:07):
All right?

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Come with me? And then like like just I came
with us and they was like ship like remember we're
a fucking Cicco and like everyone was like this dude
was tall man. But the more I like I was
around this guy, this huge, huge six, I was like, man,
I want to be like this guy. Like this guys,
this guy's sucking like he's a he's a ranger man.
Like that's what I want to be. I want to grow,

(10:28):
Like is there any drinks that I could have to grow?

Speaker 3 (10:32):
I love it. I love it. Racist was coming from him.
Do you remember his name? You want to say it? Yeah?
I do, I do.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
I don't want to say his name. I know he's
still like doing cool guys stuff, so and so, but
he I mean people people used to call him. I
think it was I don't remember what it was. They
gave him a nickname. I don't remember that.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, aad man.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
But there were like e fours who are around me
and they were like they were they were like afraid
of him, like they'd be smoking us and then like
he'd come in like they would stop. They were like
afraid of him, and like he was like smoking.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, like he was these guys, Yeah, tell me what's up.
And they're like, he's like, why don't you smoke yourselves?
For smoking them? They just wanted to say, yeah, you know,
he seemed like what you just said in two sentses,
it's like you bet your cecoa with me, Yeah, you
don't die.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
He don't want He wants you. He wants you to live.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
He wants you to fight with him and fight along
side of him, and yeah, fear him the enemy fear
yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Oh man, Like that's like, man, you pissed. Like I
actually got him mad one time, and he didn't get
mad at me. He just like was like disappointed and
just like walked off and I felt super super bad.
I was like, holy ship, I just slid him down
like that's it. Damn.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
He's got dad vibes.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
He's like, yeah, damn do that.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yeah, respect of my life now that it's.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Simple, you know, and again you your dad green beret,
My dad green beret, you know. And they just had
this look of like my dad would be like, yeah,
you're a leg, but you're my leg it's like okay,
you know, it's like yeah, yeah, true, you know, and
did your dad your dad played a huge influence in
your life then, huh, yeah he did.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
You know, just hearing a lot of stories and I'm
sure you kind of deal with the same thing. You know.
There was a lot of a lot of yeah, a
lot of life, a lot of things that he didn't unpack,
so he would kind of throw that on me. So
I mean I kind of grew up dealing with that
as well. So I kind of had this like huge
so what I'm looking for burden that he wanted me

(12:39):
to kind of carry, and I didn't want to carry
any of that, so so I kind of that's one
of the reason why I left actually arrange or not
range of attire and left the reservation life to go
and like kind of get away from me. I joined
the army.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, gets get away from some of it and try yourself.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
So did you so you deployed, you went.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
And I deployed yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
It was so majority of our deployments through three months,
so ninety days. Some people got extended like four or five,
five months, and I never got extended. When I was
on deployment and yeah, so I went to rack Iraq
was my first deployment. The other two I went to Afghanistan.
So yeah, I mean it was good. We got a
lot of a lot of bad guys. Iraq was climbing

(13:30):
around all the time, like we just climbed these buildings,
scaling these buildings, and I was like surprised, like we
were doing that with full kit on and like watching
these dudes just like jumping like they would. We would
climb all the way to the top of these ladders
and then like on our foot and then like jump up,
grab the ledge and then pull ourselves. Yeah, and then

(13:51):
you know, obviously the guy who did that would turn
around and grab the guys on the other hand do that.
Like we were like scaling three three story buildings, laying
the ladders.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Probably right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah all that.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
Yeah, yeah, we were doing all that. And like we
were like laying down ladders across three story buildings and
walking across it like I'm just like, old man.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Get the ladder cross this roof, you know, like today
across it? Would you have a need to cross it?
Like there's this like fine line. Yeah, death is on
the line.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Maybe, yeah, yeah, I got to. I got so before
all that, I actually got to do some Arabic training.
So I like I asked, I was like, hey, can
I do some Arabic training? And so so I got
to do some Arabic training. And one of these one
of these missions I was on, we were we were
black side, and so it was kind of like we

(14:44):
were on the out outer perimeter, just kind of like
watching to make sure there's like no dudes running off
squirting like I guess we call them squirters back then.
I don't know if they're called the same thing or not.
And and so we ended up we climbing over this
this this wall, and like a squaliter like he hopped
over it, and then like my team leader hopped over it,
and then and then it was me. I went I

(15:06):
hopped over and this wall just crumpled like as I
crawled over, and I just like fell all the way down,
like this whole wall just crumpled, and I just learned
my squalaladter walk, what the fuck are you doing the
fuck down? I'm just like grab me, you know. So
I was like, oh, the walk fell apart, like and
you can't you can't really say anything. I just looked
at him. I was like, Roger, I really don't know

(15:27):
what to say. Anyways, we were like yeah, anyways, we're
like we're like stacked up, like just watching this building.
And like literally after that, some dude comes walking out.
This guy walks out, and it was like fuck. So
I was like, man, that saw me, Like I feel
bad now. And the dude's like walking out and he
was just kind of like he was actually using the restroom.

(15:52):
That's like actually what he was doing. He didn't hear anything.
He actually was using the restroom. So he actually came out,
and so we thought he was actually coming out to
see like what's going on going on? You know, And
so all these you see night vision, just all these
lasers of green lasers on this dude, and he's just
like walking toward us, walking toward us, and like the
Squaladors like, yo, whe's the where's the interpreter? We need
the interpreter right now? And he's not. He's not coming up,

(16:15):
he's not he's no interpreter. Interpreter is trying to do
something else. And they kept getting closer and I was like, man,
I actually went this is what I took Arabic class
for and without even asking my squalor, I was like,
I just said. I was like, hey eth non riki,
which means hey, we're Americans. And then you know, my
squad was like, tell him to lift up his shirt,
and I was like, hey, lift up his shirt. So

(16:35):
he lifted up his shirt and tell him to turn around,
like hey, man, stay where you're at, don't move anymore,
and just lay on the ground. And and the dude
was like, hey, is that you Muhammie, Like he was
like asking, like he thought it was one of his
buddies or something. And I was like, no, we're Americans.
Was telling him that and got him to lay down. Eventually,
you know, the interpreter like actually talked to him. He

(16:56):
was like, oh, dude, the guy was going out to
take a dump.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
So sudden predator lasers are all over him. Just like
like any one of them. You know what I'm saying,
everybody had to keep or muzzle discipline, trigger discipline.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
It takes yeah, one dude, be like it'sy.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
Mm hmm yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Right because they just want to take a dumb.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Yeah man, Like I mean like and after that, I
was like, wow, this is actually like really crucial to
have some sort of a training. And well, me and
my other buddy who actually did a whole call out
on this house as well, on top of the rooftop
and I don't know it was a rooftop, it was
like an apartment, and like it was an apartment in
an outside apartment, so it was kind of separate from

(17:44):
the rest of the apartments. I did a call on
that family too, and there was like actually like ten
people in that thing and like be between me and him.
The interpreter's not there again, and interpreters like with the
main the softworest we were black sites. We're on top
of these buildings the same thing happening, and man, we're like,
oh ship, there's fucking more people up here, just like
right behind our backs. And so me and my buddy

(18:06):
we ended up like doing a call out, separating the
guys on one side, women and children on the other side,
and like we're just like asking them, Hey, what's your age,
what's your name and all this, And I was like, wow,
mass is really like I never thought I would be.
I was like, Wow, I'm doing.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
It, saying the right thing and you can understand them. Yeah,
learning a language and saying the words doesn't mean you
necessarily learn how they reply back, right, they might have.
Like so you're kind of like, uh, yeah, yeah, it was.
It was yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
Me and my buddy you were actually kind of like, dude,
what is this what they said? Like kind of in
between me and him, like being an interpreter, like yeah,
like yeah, and then like after that we're like, hey,
you know, go back inside your house. Don't move around
for like ten minutes, you know, YadA YadA ya, and
then then we left and said pay bye.

Speaker 5 (18:53):
Then, my buddy, I bet you that fans like the ghosts,
they came up, the American ghosts, and they spoke to
us in our language, and they separated. Remember that, I
bet if there's still you know, like we're talking about it.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
Yeah, yeah, no, it was. It was interesting. I mean,
but like I mean, we did. It was a bunch
of rage as well. I mean, we went inside buildings,
cleared buildings, like I don't even want to like just religiously,
like it was just every day and like I was told,
like we did within those ninety days, we did one
hundred missions, but that's not including follow on missions. So

(19:27):
I have no idea how much because we did a
lot of follow on missions, like we would hit one target,
get done. Then it's like, hey, we're taking off to
another ejective. We would hit that objective, get another guy's
like oh hey we just got intelling this other guy
and we're like boom, so like throw up back. Then.
I was like that was what we were doing.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, you just go one to another to another, and
so one lead turns to another lead turns to.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Another lead and those are a mission within a mission
and a mission.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, so like one yeah, yeah, one one one deploy
one mission is like multiples.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yeah yeah yeah, I mean yeah, now just bring it up.
I just I just remember just one particular, one particular
individual and we there's two of them actually just two missions.
Now was like actually a bunch of missions popping up now.
But one mission we did it was it was there
was a kid, right, there was this kid who was
like twenty by the same interesting it was nineteen at

(20:16):
a time, and he like we saw him at one
of one one mission, one objective. We're like, oh, it's
just a kid, you know whatever, we go hit another target,
that kid's there again, We're like, whoa, this is the
same kid. From that last mission, like you know, what's
going on here? And then they kind of brought him
in and then like I don't know, maybe like two

(20:37):
meets go by, we're on another target and the guy's
there again, and like we're like, dude, like this, somebody's
up with this kid, and then they end up sucking
hauling in. So that was that was interesting. You started
like seeing like stuff like that, like that dude was
just there all the time, interesting.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Guy, Yeah, not randomly just there, you know, like yeah, yeah, wild, yeah, yeah,
like how come that? How can we can't? The first
time you're like, okay, I'm gonna slide. The second time
you're like, I think that kid. The third time you
were like this dude needs to get snatched or what.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
Yeah. I mean well the second time they snatched him
up and then then and then he was gone so
we didn't see him for a bit then and then
he just shows up again. Really what the fuck?

Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (21:20):
You know, so like a lot of those dus were
like that. We went after some bigger targets like this accounting.
When we went after no no like gun shots or anything.
Went but like we went in there, but there were
guns in there. They were just they pick them up,
but they were like rolexes. There were rolexes man, like
with istam usam on there like gold bars everywhere and

(21:40):
like just mansions. I was like, holy smokes man, it's just.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Like you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Yeah, yeah, like h he had a Sadam Usain letter,
like a little square one, and I was like, that's
kind of cool. So I took that.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
W W two.

Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
I heard a story about a guy in World War two.
He got a gold luger, went on the navy ship.
He's supposed to check all that stuff in because they
like have any problem with it, And when he went
to go get it out of that locker, it was gone, wow, yeah,
because the guy in the army was like, hey, fighters
keepers right gold luger? Yeah yeah, yeah, you know, so
I can only imagine having, you know, any type of drinket.

(22:22):
I've seen some things I don't want to talk about
from people who have come back, and you know, and
it's interesting.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
I've definitely, I've definitely know a few people who brought
back some stuff. I'm like, how did you do that?

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah? Man, I'm like, am I touching what you're telling me?
I'm touching. Really.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, there's no brains in that.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
That's amazing.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
Yeah. I kept my my little trophies too, small, small things, lighter.
I had a little dollar like money was a big
one for me. I wanted to I wanted to collect
the money, so money. I brought this chest set and
I think this broke to pieces.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
You know, the US soccer balls all over Iraq with
you know, US propaganda like hey we're here, We're here
for you to be friends, you know, And I was like, oh, man,
that's soccer ball. How cool of a piece of deer
would that be? You know, we put it over there
because they're gonna play with it, you know. And so
the little leaflets that we drop all over the place

(23:17):
because you spoke of money, you know, and so like
these all.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
These little things I have.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
I have a collection of stuff at my office that's
leaflets that people have gifted me from, you know, their travels.
Over there. I'm looking for the soccer ball. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Well one of my friends in Afghanistan I actually found
a Soviet Union hat, so like, yeah, he kept it.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's legit. Yeah, let's think about
that one for a second.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
You know, after you got out of uh, you.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Know, searching and destroying and doing the ranger stuff you
got into like journalism. Is that how that kind of transitioned?

Speaker 4 (23:57):
And yeah, So so I ended up getting out of
the army. I really I really didn't have no idea
what I was going to do. So I'm like, I'm
going back for an ablination and navlination is nothing. It's
like nothing there.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Really, it's just the same as you just kind of.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, and this since one of the things, well, my
friends would like talk about INTERAC in Afghanistan. I remember
a conversation I had. I was like, man, I can't
believe people live like this. And my response was like, dude,
this is how I live like this is this is
an applamation, man, Like, this is what it's like. It's
not that big a deal with me. Like and I'm like,
why are you kidding me? Are you telling me that
there's in America there's a place that's similar to Dortaal

(24:33):
country And he's like, yeah, that's that's a navlination for you.
And so I get back and I was like, man,
what am I going to do? So I actually went
up to the local newspaper and I walked up and
I just basically, hey, I'm an Army ranger. It was
special Operations. I can learn quick. I'm a fast learner.
Take give me a job. And there's like the editor

(24:53):
looked at me. Have you ever like done photos or
writing before? I was like, I've been a photographer and
jumped out up an airplane. I've taken my camera with
me and I've done you know that kind of stuff,
rock marches and training like shots with my own camera,
and like, yeah, can you do anything else? I was like,

(25:14):
I was like, I can learn to write because it's undeployments.
I was actually I had like a little diary or
slash you know, journal, journal, not diary.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah, it's actually really really honestly.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Yeah, yes, So so I would write, I would write
in this and so that's kind of like where my
writing kind of came about. So I just they said
no to me, and I was like, well, I guess
I'll just join the Navajo Police Force. And a big
dude came out like huge. I'm not I'm not talking
big like as like muscular, I mean like fat and

(25:50):
came out and was like he looked at me, and
I was like, hey, you know, I want to join.
I'm a former UND ranger. It's been about two months.
Like I let me do it, and I'm legit. The
dude was like, oh, okay, well, just so you know,
we've had Green Berets and Navy seals who cannot hack
our academy. Our academy is extremely strenuous and Army rangers

(26:15):
can't even hack it. Marines can't even hack it. So
I'm just not saying that you're not going to hack it,
but a lot of people can't hack our academy. And
I was like, man, fuck this guy. I ain't even
fucking work with this, you know, like a police force
that comes out and like tells me that already. I
was like, man, fuck this. So I ended up going
to school for a little bit, and during school's kind
of like on the road to journalism.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Now.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
I two of my friends, as civilians, went back to
Iraq to help the Kurdish to fight Isis. So I
was like, man, that's fucking bomb, that's baller, and you know,
I was like, man, that's what I want to do.
I want to be doing stuff like that, Like I'm
a guy of adventure, Like I'm not supposed to be
in school. So I took off kind of went traveling
for a little bit, and I was in Alaska, and

(26:58):
then then Stanner Rock was kicking off. My cousin invited
me to go with him, so I went there. I
really didn't have no expectation of what was going to happen,
and it blew up into this whole, big, big, big thing.
And so I get there. Yeah, like I just I
met a lot of people there and like a lot

(27:19):
of it kind of reminds me of like being on deployment,
where it was like it was now on the other side,
like all these people are like talking about yeah, you know,
there's they have this on us, they got that on us,
got the numbers on us. They're sending people in their camps,
and like at the same time, out of these Vietnam
veterans are like doing their fucking intelligence gathering on like
the police over there, and like I was, for the

(27:39):
most part, I stayed out of all of that. Like
I was like there, like right, but I was like
kind of that was for the most part staying out
of it, kind of like worried about my own little camp,
but what these guys are doing. And I ended up
meeting a bunch of journalists there like intervertently kind of
become friends with him, the same mindset. I didn't realize
it at the time, and I just kind of curious,

(28:01):
you know, and they were curious and they wanted to
know about the world. I wanted to know more about
the world, and so I started talking to him. One
of them was a French photojournalists. He's a ward he's
an award winning journalist. Now. He took me under and
showed me the groups of journalism and I started like
walking around and hanging out with all these people he
was talking to, watching how he interacted with people, and
I was like, wow, man, this is cool. This journalist

(28:22):
is kind of a quick background. He was in Ukraine
during revolution. He was hanging out with the French fid
legion when the war was going on, I believe in
stan and like he almost got murdered by by someone
with the acts and they said the dude got killed
like right in front of him. So like I was like, wow, dude,
you were the Ukraine Revolution. He since he's since gone
back to Ukraine during during the war and he's got

(28:44):
he came back. Now. I keep in touch with him still,
and so I learned. I got to learn a lot
from him, and that's when I kind of was like,
I'm going to be a journalist. Like there's there's not
a lot of Native voices, there's not a lot of
Native journalists out there, and iwardly want to speak on
a lot of these things shoes that are going on
in the reservation. So I got in into that very

(29:05):
like first big story that I was working on. I
had no idea what I was doing. It was kind
of a kind of a green journalist and I was
still kind of like riding off that whole ranger, you know.
I still kind of had that cocky attitude and I
was kind of like rolling around. So I ended up
going to the Tijuana Autumn Reservation, which is near the
border of Mexico and Arizona, so southern Arizona, i should say,

(29:28):
and straight near the border. And so I heard like
stories of like the cartel going into not on the
reservation and knocking on doors and basically like forcing these
people to be drug runners for them, and so I
was like, Wow, that's really that's really interesting. So I
was like talking to people about that. I was like
getting contacts with the Border Patrol and when one dude

(29:51):
I was able to finally kind of talk to him
and set up a time. But before that happened, before
I cut it and stopped the story, I was like,
I went to this bar because I was like, I
asked someone like something like I was going to school
at Uba University of Arizona. I asked one of my colleagues.
I was like, hey, man, what uh what is like
a bar that some owning a boy a cartel or

(30:12):
club here in Tucson, you know? And he was like
I don't know, man, Like he's like, but this one
place kind of seems kind of sketchy, like to really
go there. So I went there. I went there and
like I don't know Spanish, but I look up and
I look Spanish, I look Mexican, and so I was
just like yeah, so I was yeah. So I went

(30:33):
in and like guys were like asking me for like
what I want to drink? Is Spanish? I could kind
of understand him from just from a loam and my
friends who are in Mexican. Yeah, I was like, I
was like, I'll take a yeah, take avesa like yeah,
who knows. I was like okay, yeah, yeah exactly. So
I was there, and I was just like mine in

(30:54):
my own business, just drinking and drinking a beer and
kind of wanted to see what this place was about.
All of a sudden, I see just do just like
starting something like some some sip with sh sh it
was going down, and like the bouncers, they didn't like
throw them out. Man, they just started beating the ship
out of him. They beat this guy. I just beat
the ship out of him. And like they didn't throw

(31:15):
him out, they said they looked to the corner. They
look in the corner of like some group of guys
in the corner of the room, and then you just
see the guy go and then they just fucking dragged
him to another room in the back. And I was like,
oh shit, this is this is it? Like I'm here
right now. And I ended up, like I said, I'm
a green journal or something. I don't know. I don't

(31:36):
know what I was doing. I mean I could probably
get a story now a more with more thought process
and without an experience.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah, the story you're creating the story of the story. Yeah,
like oh, sitting down right about me?

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Yeah, exactly. I didn't get invited, So the story got
killed because I got invited to. I invited his Mexican party.
So I go for New Year. So I go there
and I'm kind of doing my things. I'm just talking
to people, not really trying to do a story. And
like some I was like sitting went and I was like,
my buddy was sitting with me. And then he walked off.
And I was at this bar and this guy came

(32:14):
up to me. Alligator boots on pants, huge buckle, silk
fucking dress shirt, creasy hat.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah you know, it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, You're
like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
He sits in front of me and then he's just
he's just he's being super calm. He's like, hey, you
want a beer, And I was like, he bought me
a beer. I'm drinking a beer with him. And he
was like talking to me for a little bit and
he was like, hey, you're a journalist. I was like yeah.
He goes, you're working on this story about you know,
the cartel, but I was like yeah, I am, and
he's like, yeah, you should stop that story. I was like, no,
I have to write it, like I get it because

(32:54):
and then he's like no, no, no, no, no, you should
stop right And I was like nah, no, Like, who's
this guy? I was like who are you? And he
was like, oh, you know who I am? I was like, now,
I've never met you before, No, you know who I am.
I was like looking. I was like kind of like
I was like kind of like looked him up and
I was like, how to get it boots? You know,

(33:15):
I was like silk tress shirt. And I was like, oh, okay,
I know who you are. And he's like yes, I'm
just gonna ask you kindly stop the story. Nothing's going
to happen. Just just stop. I was like, all right,
stop it.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah. So that was it.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
I never stopped. I never continued with that story. I mean,
now it's a total different, total different ballgame.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
You're like, okay, you know, I get it.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
H You realized it was for real?

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
So like it was kind of one of those things
where it was like I kind of saw myself as
like one of those old school journalists like getting the story,
you know, Like I was like, oh man, this is
is not how we should be going about getting the story.
Like things are things should be different. I learned a
lot from that too as well.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Journalism and journalists are a target you know, and uh,
you know, they are uncovering things and like Koshogi, who
was you know butchered at the embassy by you know
who we all know did it, had it done, you know,
and he was sawn up into little pieces because he
was going after the stories.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
You know, he's so deep into these stories. They're just
he wouldn't stop.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
So, I mean, journalism, journalism is a I don't want
to say, a dying craft, you know what I mean.
And it needs to continue. We have to keep the
freedom of press and journalism out there.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
It has to keep going.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
People have to take the torch like yourself and just
you know, you're like, hey, it's a different day now, right,
you'd have a different means of doing what you want
to do and maybe not so involved. But that green
journalist out there that you were is trying to chase
that same thing, and they're going to find themselves in
the same position.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know, yeah, I was
just very I was very very fortunate, I guess you
could say. And I ended up eventually around that time period.
I actual dropped out of college at that time and
got a drop offer from from one of my buddies
he's a combat controller. And she was like, yeah, man,

(35:27):
I got this. I got this contract which'd be interested in.
We'd be doing intelligence with the Royal Air Force with drones.
I was like, yeah, sure, why not. So I did
that for a good minute and basically just like helping
train the prole Air Force and intelligence gathering and to
establish a terish network organization and from that, and I
was like the ground maneuver. So I was like the

(35:48):
dude who would like kind of like set up the
the guys and kind of display how you know, people
would move around and walk around and stuff like that,
how they would interact with like in a gunfight. So
I was I was doing that. Eventually I got to
the point where I was actually the guy like in
the talk, you know, like talking to talking to the.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Tactical Operation Command right a talk.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
T o C. Yeah yeah, yeah, so you're in like
a operation command center. Yeah, mobile, but I'm not sure
if this is mobile, right, and so yeah right, yeah,
I'm just explained to my listener what the talk is, right,
because you're inside of a command and control center where
everybody's making decisions and there's probably maps and things being
pointed at and you're in there.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
Yeah, so so I kind of got to do I
got to do that. And like my buddies were just
like Jordan or like tac BS and Majordia of common Controllers.
So I was like the only Army ranger.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Area Air Force Air Force tactical party. Yeah he yeah,
caught back Controllers. Yeah, clear airfield. Yeah, sure that it's
clear to h you know they're.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Bad, yea, they are, man, you.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
A shout out, bro, he just made UFC caught Back
Control give a shout out.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Yeah yeah yeah we yea. We ended up I end
up working with those guys and they basically kind of
training me up in a lot of that, and I
was like, well, this is cool, it's really fun. I
wish I was a tach peek.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah. When I was going through boot, they're the only
guys you saw at basic training, but they had already
gone through all their you know training, and they were
like in these black flight suits. No one else wears
black flight suits. Everyone else is like in you know,
camis or BDU's camouflage. And then there's these like six
guys hanging over an edge of a railing, like smoking
with baseball hats and black flight suits just big American

(37:41):
flags on them like Delta Force like the movie. And
I'm just like, yeah, bro, those guys just getna walk
around and they probably have wheelbarrows to carry every pair
of their balls, you know what I'm saying. It's like, okay,
here we are, what do you need from us parking
our wheelbarrows? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (38:00):
I did that, and I actually took a lot of
those skills and I started apply that to journalism and
that that that that up my game like one hundred percent.
And man like now I'm like this full fledged journalist
and like I'm now going to try some stories now,
like on a whole different level. Now It's like, Okay,
I'm not the one, dude. Now I'm talking to people
who are in it, talking to people who like you know,

(38:22):
are there who witness these stuff. And then I go
and I talk to them and verified them. So a
lot of these people, like I really like one of
the one of them was a girl. She you know,
she had top secret clearance. She was sick and those
intelligence and so like I would like reach out to
her about like specific things that are happening, and so
I talked to her about stuff and and so I

(38:43):
started to establish like you know, and veterans basically and
in these like in these spaces and kind of find
out what's going on like human and what's going on
in the commun Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's essentially essentially that's
what it was. I mean, as a journalist who there's
a lot of stuff I would I started reading a

(39:04):
lot of journalism books, a lot of these investigative journalists.
How how they which go about their gathering your sources.
I mean I even started reading like some spy books
just just to kind of get an idea of like
how they would create their their sources as well. And
I was like, okay, so this is this is what
you know investigative journalism. Next, you know, I'm an investigative journalist,
and like I'm uncovering all these different different things that

(39:27):
are happening on the reservation, a lot of corruption going on.
And I was like, oh my gosh, this is this is.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
Wild and publisher that you're being that you're putting out there.
Is there something that they're all abrogated or are you
just kind of like freelance and it's whoever picks up
your articles, you know, if it's for the res or
the Navajo Reservation is you know.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
Yeah, the majority of the majority of the stories. I
actually have a website. It's it's a really strange website,
like you can't look it up, like you put down
a sier snow Across journal part folio dot com, it's
something like that. But I do have it on the
LinkedIn so you can talk LinkedIn, and then I have
an Instagram as well. The website's on there, so you

(40:11):
just just right there, you can click it and you
see all these stories. Like literally, I haven't published anything
because I'm kind of focusing on on my other projects
right now. And I was just in New York kind
of won an award and from Mexico section called Military
Vetters and Journalism.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I told me that you just won.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Yeah, yeah, so it's Military Vetters and Journalism. I got
into New York and basic the ward. The story that
I did it on was about potential police brutality within
the Navajo Nation and this individual ended up twenty one
year old kid was drunk and the Navel police officer

(40:50):
at the time was saying he'd started thrown up in
the back of his seat, so he took him out
from the back of the seat and sat him out
on the back of the car, have the cough car,
and he went to go to the front of vehicle
to get some gloves and some kleenics to go clean
the back of the seat. So when he went to
go do that, he came back and the kid was

(41:12):
gone gone. That's what That's what the press he said,
That's what I was told. Yeah, he was just gone, disappeared.
We went to look for him, we couldn't find them.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
And so my thing with.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
That, as I started asking questions, I was like, you're
telling me that an experience officer did not hear a
twenty one year old drunk kid run away. I'm like,
I've been to that police station. They actually work out
of a post office. I was like, you know, I've
been to the police station. It's not even a police station.
It's a post office. You have seven foot fences and

(41:46):
it's a gravel so you can hear someone's running.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
I was like, so you're tough, yeah, yeah, he's coughed.
And I was like, so you're telling me that twenty
one year old drunk kid just happened to slip through
and experienced police officers ears and eyes like you weren't
aware of any of this, and the press release like
what we said is what we said, And so I

(42:15):
dove into the kid. They found a kid like two
or three weeks later drowned in a canal with a
handcuffed by his back, and so I dove into that story.
Like the family has now since been like done a
lawsuit and so they're they're trying to get some sort
of like compensation from.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
That and this.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah, and there's really nothing going on with there. It's
kind of a stealmy right now. So their lawyer they're
you know, it's they're kind of going back and forth
right now. And so that that's the award I got
it for. It was kind of highlighting that. I mean,
it's not just that, Like the main thing I actually
do I do now it is called missing my Indigenous people,
and that one is a huge issue just and it

(42:59):
goes back to this case that happened back in nineteen
seventy eight. So it's called the Oliphant versus the Coma
Stribe and this individual on it's no Native was kind
of giving hecking the tribal police for whatever he was using.
T kidd like hecking the Native police there, and so
the Native police were like, all right, man, like your
cause of an issue. So they threw him in jail

(43:20):
and like, hey man, we're gonna we're gonna charge you
for disordered the conduct and for being I forgot the
word was assaulting.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
At last native?

Speaker 4 (43:28):
Right, yeah, yeah, he's no native doing this to native
Native police. And so it ended up going all the
way to Supreme Court. The guy was like, you guys
don't have jurisdiction only so it goes all the way
to the Supreme Court, and Supreme Court rules that tribal
courts and tribal police have no georgisdiction or authorization to

(43:48):
put non natives in jail, and so that Yeah, this
was in nineteen seventy eight, and so that still applies
to it still applies to this day. And so a
lot of this, a lot of crime start of spiking
up from non natives coming to the reservations, like all
across the reservations and and we just I mean getting
away with murder. I mean you you you hear it

(44:09):
all across and yeah, and so this whole miss and
murder started and well it started way back then, and
you just hear all switts. Like, I've had a lot
of ladies walking on to me and telling me someone
are like like very vulnerable stories, becoming very vulnerable, telling
me like how like the sisters were murdered, the brothers
gone missing. Currently, this dude, one of one of the

(44:31):
stories that a family and I'm working with just like
this guy just went missing, like he went to windmill
and they feel like something else had happened to him,
like there was, there's, there's it's it's huge, like one
of these girls getting trafficked, like a potential mansion that
has holding woman inside. It's huge. And so like I'm
I'm in it. I'm like again, I'm in it, but

(44:52):
I'm I'm a lot more the full fledged I'm not
like dude, you know, being being an idiot to be like.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
H here's my money. Can I get a girl? And
you're trying to get the story and get in and
like yeah yeah, now you're like, well no, I feel
you dude. Oh man, Yeah yeah, it's not that you're
going after though, dude, Yeah, yeah, it is.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
It is. It's huge. And so That's where I'm at
right now. And so I'm working on a short documentary. Actually,
I'm working on a couple of projects, so short documentaries
about the canine search and rescue just apple whole lady
actually started her own search and rescue operation, our organization
and to address the lack of search and rescue from

(45:36):
Natalination police force because they don't have one, you know,
they don't have that. And so she started doing that
and like now all these families just talked her. Man,
they tell her all sorts of information and then like
that chick, she's been shot at. Man, like she's been
shot at. Like I was like, holy fuck, you were
shot at? And she's like, yeah, you know, at this
one area because we're searching for this person's family. I

(45:58):
was like, holy fuck. Like know, So she's like throwing
around with the pistol all the time, and so so
like I go, I'll go out with searchers with her
every once in a while and just kind of like
see what's up. I'll usually bring my pistol to with
me and.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
On the on the reservation, on the on the nation
with a pistol, what you guys have the same everybody
can tete one around or oh man.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
You know, it's so it's such an interesting man that's
such an interesting thing because.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
I feel like there's like it's like, what the hell, man,
it's native of bro, you're the indigenous people, okay, Like
I owe you everything, you know, Like I'm so pistol
now as this white dude.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
I just want to say that, like this whole like
you can't lock someone up because they're not of the
tribe or they're not from the area. It's just shitty.
I don't swear on my podcast, but I'm finding it inside. Bro,
Yeah this is not funny. Yeah, I mean like it is.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
But yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
So can you carry Like is it okay? Just to
like roll on?

Speaker 4 (47:04):
It's it's a it's a super interesting thing. So I
had one officer one time. This meth had came and
like tried to break into our place and I ended
up I ended up beating him. I didn't kill him
or anything. Like he probably thought it was just my
mom there. Little did he know I was. I was
home and came out and like I just threw the
dude on the ground. I threw him off the porch,

(47:25):
I mean, and like it was just like bewilder and
I just like held him down I started being the
crap out of him and tied him up, called the police.
Police came and legit robat him. The police officer goes,
you have a gun. I was like, yeah, he goes
next time to shoot him, right, And so that's one

(47:46):
police officer. Another police officer spoke to was like, yeah,
you know, you can carry, but you can't carry in public.
Another police officer I spoke to was like, we're not
allowed to have anything, like as citizens, we're not we're
not supposed to have. So I've heard three different views
and perspectives from three different officers who it's it's not

(48:07):
like the actual law when you look at it, it
says that as a native of Navajo, you can actually carry,
but you can't carry open carry. So but these police
officers more like one of them was like, okay, I
see your pistol.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
You know, just just.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
Make sure it's not loaded, you know, while we're while
we're doing these searches, and just just make sure it's
not loaded one that once in the chamber, right. I said, okay. Yeah.
So I mean it's it's such a strange issue and
there really isn't much like yeah, here.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Focused on I could walk around with one in the
chamber tactically loaded with an extra one in the mag
that the chamber took. Okay, another one in numb Yeah,
and I can keep that and everywhere I go. It's like,
you know, but yeah, what part of America does do
you not fall under? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (49:03):
Yeah, right, get it man. Yeah, No, there's there's there's
there's so much like red tape on the reservation. So
there's I mean, it goes back to their like eighteen
thirties like laws that were so basically like that law
told you about the case in nineteen seventy eight that
now just because it was one tribe, but since it
went to Supreme Court, now you know, everyone goes off

(49:27):
of that. They go off of it. So there's a
lot of cases back then that happened in like the
eighteen thirties that now are now applied to a lot
of the reservations all crossed in the United States, and
so the dependent nation before before bees like laws when
eighteen thirties are passed, a lot of native tribes were
independent nations. They were able to economically thrive, they could

(49:49):
do what they needed to have to thrive. And these
laws are passed in eighteen thirties Cherokee versus or Georgia
versus Cherity Nation. And basically it was like, you know,
there's gold on the Cherokee Nation and we want the gold.
And the Supreme Court ruled. Supreme Court ruled that the
state has no jurisdiction over tribal nations. Andrew Jackson at

(50:14):
the time was like, Okay, that only applies to state,
not federal. We're going to go and make move to Cherokee,
like I want that gold. And then that trailer fears
happened because they're a because they're a dependent nation. They're
a dependent nation. They don't understand the concept of what
gold is. They don't understand the concept of what this

(50:34):
land can do for us. So we're going to end
their interests. We're going to move them away. So that
was basically what happened. That's how the cherry I mean,
it's actually a lot, a lot longer and longer than that.
That's just kind of a shortened version of it. And
so that applied to all the other nation is like, hey,
you're now all dependent nations. You're no longer independent, you're
now dependent on the United States government. So it's because

(50:57):
of that, because of that there's so much restrictions on what.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
Because a payment to you know, indigenous folks that have
a certain amount in them and then they can get
you know, approved for federal benefits, and so they're going
to try to hold over. It's like, what's worth more
the freedom to have the whole reservation free to be
to really be independent of everything and just cut off

(51:24):
that money or do they or were they rather?

Speaker 2 (51:27):
I don't know, man, you guys should have.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
The shouldn't even be having this conversation with you, right
because like, like my wife's family was on the Mother
f and Mayflower one of the trips that came here,
and they were one of the like the four that
didn't sign onto the Mayflowers Constitution of like they were
all like this religious cult of we're going to sign
a constitution on the Mayflower saying they they're like, no,

(51:51):
we're going to break away from that and go find
our own place.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
To live here in America.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
And at the end and end of the day, they
landed in a Native American place, the head on the
East coast, like in the New York area. They landed
a little higher than New York and so they moved
back a little bit along the coast, and they came
back to that area between where they were at New York,
and they said, hey, look, here's a whole village the
no one's at because everybody had died, all of the

(52:16):
natives have died, like the plague and whatever, and so
here are these pilgrims. Just move into this that we brought,
the plague, we brought all these diseases, blankets.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
I'm so pissed, bro. I tell my wife all the time.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Man, it's like your ancestors, dude, Okay, I'm like, what
the hell She's like. Remember, they are the ones that
broke away from it. They broke away from it. But yeah, yeah,
how do how do we fix that? Okay, I can't
change the past, rights, I can't change the past. I
could look to the future and just be a better
student of where I have my property and my land

(52:52):
for the future. You know. That's all we can do
is be better stewards and not let the past happen again.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
Yeah. Yeah, No, that's a that's actually a really complicated question,
and it's it's it's very difficult one. Yeah, it's a
difficult to answer because a lot of natives, right now,
I really want to have sovereignty. They really want to
be able to do what they want to do. They
want to be able to have their businesses on the reservations.

(53:22):
There's a lot of there's actually a lot of entrepreneur
natives out there and they're doing amazing things. It's just
they had to go off of the reservation. So they
go off with the reservation to do a lot of
this work that they want to do with businesses that
they want to have, and so when they're on the
Navajo Nation, it's a whole it's a totally different it's
a totally different thing. And one of the issues that

(53:44):
is going on right now, which is something I recently
just found out. Well I reuently found no move about it,
but I never knew how big of a deal it was.
So this is the other documentary. I'm I won't work
it on. So this is the second one, which probably
won't start filming until next year sometime. And I was
really looking at I was like, man, you know, why
is there so much illegal burning? Why is there so

(54:05):
much illegal dumping? And I was like why is there
no waste management on the Navali Nation? Like where's the
where's the waste management where are the dumb trucks at?
Like why is it that the main towns which are
Shin leading through the city, Crompoint and ship Rock, wind Rock,
Like why are these main towns, Why are they the

(54:26):
only ones that have the actual waste management services? But
then the rest of the rest nation right then, there's
no there's none all the role thereas the is nothing.
So people are like they're resorted to happen to do that.
That's the only thing that they can do. So I
really found an interest in that. So I started digging,
digging around and like looked thro their history and I
was like, holy smokes. One of the reasons why the

(54:49):
Romans in the Greek did so well is because they
established the waste management system. They started to have sewage systems,
they started to have public toilet It's one of the
things that they required was that you're not allowed to
have trash. You had to dump your trash more than
a mile away. They actually started to have people who
would pick up the trash, so they were a clean society.

(55:11):
And I was like, wow, that's interesting because after the
fall of the Roman Empire, there's no way managements gain
like for a long time, like it's just people just
sitting in the road and play being everywhere, yeah, everywhere.
And then so from that, from those two I started.
I was when I got that award in New York.

(55:31):
I started thinking about New York and I seen the
trash there, like the trash is there, but they would
go and pick it up right away and get rid
of it. And I started, I started, I'm like, why
is New York such an economic hub? Like why is that?
So I started looking into that, and no one actually
in the early in eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, they

(55:54):
did not. No one wanted to live in New York.
Like it was a cesspool back then, like just disease everywhere,
rats everywhere. I mean they're still rats everywhere, like it was.
It was worse back then. It was worse. And I
believe it was they do Roosevelt. I cannot. I don't
want to. I don't want to, actually, I don't want to.
I don't know who it was. It was someone famous, right,

(56:16):
someone big. I think it was the Rose who started
the white that could be called them the white white suits.
These guys would put on white suits and they would
go around and start cleaning up New York. Like that's
all they were doing. And they would do that. And
then once they started doing that, people started moving in
because New York was getting cleaner and people are like, oh,

(56:37):
I want to stay here now, like because New York's green.
I was like wow, and then it just kept continue moving.
Now in New York has a New York Sanitation with
over eight thousand workers. They praised their New Yorkers or
not New Yorkers. They plays New York Sanitation as actual
police officers, like they actually have Like these New York
Sanitation workers have police officer uniforms that's green, like they

(56:58):
actually I thought when I saw that their border troll
and I was like, wow, man, these guys are like
highly respected, Like there's actually like there's a whole parade
for them. They call them. I forgot what they called them.
I don't know. I don't not a New Yorker, but.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
You I was just talked about it last night, you know,
like you know, I was like, hey, custodians at high schools, you.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Know, it's a it's a it's a it's a thankless job.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
You know, these folks that go in and we expect
it to be clean when we sit down at the bathroom,
you know, the worker at the bathroom that's sanitizing it.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
You know, it's like we take that for granted, right,
we think.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Oh, that's that's below me, that's below Yeah, I'll never
throw trash. I don't want to be the garbage man.
That's what growing up, you have to throw in the back. Now, man,
there's somebody has to do it.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's crucial.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
The should be a garbage man appreciation day.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
Yeah, no, it's yeah, we have so many days to
appreciate things.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
Yeah, I mean, man, sanitation.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
You deployed, right, you deployed.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
No, no, no, I'm not I'm not okay.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Oh anyways, Like one of the things I thought about
was like, man, could you imagine how does deployments would
be if there was no waste management from the military side,
like that place.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Where they didn't have that implemented, like a waste management Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Yeah, like it's it's huge.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Yeah it is. And so that's the burn pits though, right,
I mean yeah, yeah, that's where the burn pits. Yeah,
and there we are. It was full circle, right, you're
like burn pits on the reds, burn pits in you know,
uh yeah, exactly in war you know. I remember, yeah
the movie Platoon or was it Platoon? Yeah, and Charlie
Sheen's like, you know, he's pulling the the ship out

(58:37):
of the shitter with the guys and they're burning it
and then lighting on fire, you know, the filling up
with gasoline.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
They're burning the outhouse crap so.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
That they could put it back in, you know, and
you just see these black smoke going up in the
air and you're like, those are little burn pits. It's
that that's awful for the troops to have to deal
with and down when you know from were.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
You evaulved, do you recall burn pits they were?

Speaker 4 (59:00):
They were around, Yeah, they were. They were around like
a sodom. I never had to had to do it, thankfully,
but yeah, they were around there. You would see them
just burn and smell it. Yeah, it was horrible.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
That's what they talked about. Why you yeah you know, yeah, yeah,
station you smelt it. That's yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
That That's actually one of the reasons why I started
looking into this Spanish was I was like, man, there's
actually a lot of illegal burning going on on an
ablimation because there's no waste management. I was like, man,
this this is a huge issue. So that kind of
comes back into like, oh man, I need to make
a documentary on this to kind of highlight this issue,
to highlight like hey, like also you have waste Spanishment.

(59:46):
You can build infrastructure, you can create jobs that way.
It's like, oh, okay, well you guys can handle your
waste management. Okay, let's let's build something now that we
know you have some infrastructure, femina infrastructure, something so.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
That it can cerator echo friendly style like they have
here in Utah by Hill Air Force Base. It's got
a huge chip. Remember was built in the late eighties
and it was like revolutionary. They're like the News Management
burn Facility here in Layton, Utah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
And you know it's where they burned the John doees.
You know, if you have to, if you get where
do they take you to cremate you?

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Up there? One of my friend works there. He's like,
I found a toe. I was like, get out there
and he's like yeah, he's like cleaning up theerator. What
time He's like, I found it? Yeah. I was like,
oh bro, but again, where do you put the dead?
Where do you put uh the burn put it in
an incinerator. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
So there's a a little side note, a little sign
note about the waste management. I was talking to this
other Army ranger about it. He was he's an urban planner,
and I was just we were just talking. I was
talking about this whole project he was wanting to do
with him, kind of get an insight on him. He's like,
you're onto something, man, And he's like, did you know
who owned Do you know who owned waste management from

(01:01:01):
like the early nineteen hundreds to about the eighties or nineties.
I was like, nah, And I kind of said some
names like no, no, no, no, no, no no. He's like
he's like, think, think somewhere. And I was like, man,
I was, I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Mafiah yeah yeah, yeah, Well look what happened to them.
So right when the towers got him, all of the
metal was set to the mafia's uh scrap yard, like
it was all like it's all like how come they
got the contract, They had the waist, they were taking

(01:01:34):
all of this, all of it over to their their dumbs,
and there was like this big hub up about who
was getting the contracts through the new York Mayor's office
or whatever to haul all of the steal out like
you said, that's who it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
So I was like, man, if the mafia is like
into the waste management business, like I think I'm onto
something right now. So yeah, I'm not. I'm always not
doing a story on the mafia now, but like it's yeah,
but you know, it's like you know why, you know,
why is the mafia going to waste manager business. It's like, well,
they know it's crucial. I mean there's a there's a
whole list of reasons, like it's crucial for the community.

(01:02:10):
There's always going to be trash, and it's the mafia,
so money laundering money the laundering easily, right, Yeah, it
takes all these boxes of them.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
I'm like, oh wait, oh wait, we handle the trash,
so dead body, We'll just send it out to our
trash job, like you know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Here, and he'll bring it over.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Do't worry, gets pressed up and it's gone see you later.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
So I I just like realized all of that and
I was like, wow, man, this is this is this
is crucial. I'm onto something. So that's the other project
that I'm doing So that's that's the two projects. So
the ones about the The Lady Search and Rescue. This
one's about the Waste Manager documentary.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
And then are you writing something about Standing Rock too?
Are you doing a book on Standing Rock? Is that right?

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Or so? Yeah, so the book, I've actually restarted it. Well,
I don't just restarted it. So the first time I
wrote it it was when I actually started coming back,
when I got it from Standing Rock, and it was
still it was so like I'm sober, I'm a sober guard.
Now I've been sober a couple of years and I'm
getting close to five. And I ended up rereading that.

(01:03:16):
I read read it and I was like, oh my gosh,
this is not true too. Who I am. I'm making
myself sound like a hero and in Standing Rock and
I was like, that's that's not actually, that's not how
I went down. I was actually transitioning from the army.
I had no like direction in life, I had no
idea what I was doing. And so like I'm writing
about that and like how Standing Rock journalism came came

(01:03:39):
through there, and I'm just writing about that, and it's
really really difficult because I'm like looking at what like
probably like one of the saddest moments in my life.
And I'm just like writing about how I was thinking,
how I was feeling, like what I was expecting, So
like it dives into a lot of that perspective. It's
it's like a it's about standing rock, but it's also
a mod really terry transition book. So it was like

(01:04:02):
the transitioning of like what do I do?

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
What were you not?

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
What was your what was the what was your what
was your advice?

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
So I was drinking. Drinking was the big one for me,
and I just like I remember I just was I
dropped out of college because all I was doing was drinking.
I was by myself and no I'm going to talk
to and so I just was like I remember like
looking at this bottle when I was like, why am

(01:04:33):
I even still drinking? Like this is this isn't helping
me in any way. And I started to thinking about
some I'm not sure if you're a no Social Distortion
band kind of yeah, yeah, yes, Mike ness so and
I remember I remember like him like telling us, I
remember telling his story of like I got sober when

(01:04:55):
I was like twenty eight twenty and I was like
twenty nine. I was like, you know what, he gets
sober at this time. I can get sober at this time.
So I was like, I'm just gonna fuck. I'm like
Mike nested it. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna sober.
So yeah, yeah essentially, So I just I literally grabbed
this like bottle, like I had like three bottles of fuck.

(01:05:15):
And because they're a cheat too, so I just dumped
all of it and I was like, I'm never drinking again.
And then I went to this VA like AA type
meeting thing and like I met this dudent there. He
was like a Korean War veteran, I believe, and like
he was fifty years sober.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Didn't have to be in there, like and he was
fifty years I was still counting the days.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
Yeah yeah, And he was like yeah, you know, I
I keep coming and here to to encourage you guys,
you know, to continue to get sober. He's like I
got sober years ago and my life got way better.
And I was like wow, And and a lot of
these Vietnam vets were there, like so that guy gave
me a lot of inspiration. Just like listen to his

(01:06:05):
story fifty years sober Korean War veteran, and those guys
saw some ship too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Like you know and feet but you know what I mean,
you know, yeah, yeah, thought me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
Yeah, it takes you down to the best road. You know.
I've been so wasted and I passed out in the
farm field and I was just like vomiting in my
own vomiting on my face. Yeah yeah, yeah, never again.
Do I want that? Yeah, I did that to myself.
I did that to myself.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
Yeah no, no, no, I I totally get like that's
actually so I was a ranger, right, So if you
talked a lot of my anyone who knew me back
in the range, were time to tell like hey, yeah,
nor across man like on Mission Stellar training Missions Stellar,
like flawless. You take them back though verre excite man.
All he was doing was drinking, like that's all I did.

(01:06:53):
And so I mean they actually got me in trouble.
So that's they're like, hey, man, like you're a good dude, uh,
but we got to let you go. So I end
I ended up leaving them getting kicked out. So that's
when I went because of because a dream. Yeah yeah,
And so I mean a lot of that kind of
is in the book two times into the book of
like feeling like a failure, like man, and you know,

(01:07:16):
I failed. I feeled being a ranger, I failed, Like
my leadership, I failed. I failed at everything. And I
mean I talked to them now and it's like, man,
good now, man, like, don't worry about it any much
in the past. Now, like drive on. So that's basically
what happened. I just drove on. And a lot of

(01:07:37):
that leadership and training that they taught me back then,
now it's like now it's it's me, it's it's here.
I'm utilizing it. I'm going forward with it. And so
it's like, you know, kind of and and and they
see it, my leaders you know, they see it. You
know it's kind of shoot me like a message, Amen,
keep doing what you're doing. You know you're doing good.
It's good to see you being who you were meant

(01:07:58):
to be. Because I remember one of them took me
to side and it was like north Cross, man, if
you just stopped fucking drinking, you know how much fucking
potentially you could do, you could do, like how much
potential you have in you, Like, just stop fucking drinking. Yeah,
I was nineteen twenty twenty one. I was like, whatever
you know, but now though it's totally different. Man, Like
I try to tell people out with whatever I can.

(01:08:21):
But yeah, so that's exactly what happened. And I got sober.
I dumped out everything out and heard like these Vietnam
veterans like walking up to me, like, hey, man, I
wish I was sober. I got sober in your age.
I wish I got sober when I was twenty nine.
I wish I got sobherre I was thirty. And he's like,
I'm seventy years old. Now I'm only year. I'm only
a year or sober. He's like throwing every dread again.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Bro. I mean, going sober is not the easiest thing,
right because especially if you've been doing it for so long,
like that cat that's been doing it for seventy or
he's seventy. I mean, now your body the addiction can
actually cause you know, I'm not trying to sacar anybody
who's trying to quit, but you can stroke you know
from yeah, do all sorts of different elements gonna happen? Yeah,
so yeah, you know at seventy, I mean he still

(01:09:04):
sees it's worth it cutting out, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
Yeah, So I just I took that route, and you know,
I don't I don't really harp on anybody. Like when
I when I first started being sober, I was like
I'm sober. But now I'm just like yeah. Now I'm
just like I'm like, yeah, man, you want to get Yeah, yeah,
I'm like, yeah, if you want to get sober, man, like,
go go for it, like it's sober. I'm like, it's good,

(01:09:30):
it's huge for your health. I'm like, you know, some
people I always tell me, I was like, some people
can have a beer, man. I was like, I was
never that dude like if if you give me a beer,
I need to have a twenty four pack like that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
That was me.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
And I was like if you gave me a fit
of you know, jack or whatever, like no, I needed
all of it, like I need it more like I
need a gallon to myself. You know that That was
me and I wasn't that. I was never that dude
who could like just like yeah, man, I'll just take
you know, I'll just take one whisky in the rocks
and that don't beat that and then you know, go on.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Beer with just like a beer, like a beer with
your dinner, you know. It's yeah, yeah, it just meds
into like three or four and then yeah and then yeah,
you know, I I don't, I'm not, I guess sober
in that aspect. I'll still have a beer, you know
what I mean? And so but I don't have any
mere anything like the Logger times. Man, those dimes are
way behind me. Like, I'm so glad I had the

(01:10:27):
moment of clarity while I was laying in my own vomit. Uh.
You know, at such a young age, it's like, I
don't ever want to drink this stuff again. No, sit
them in schnaps ever again never never, never, No, I
don't care if there's gold in it and it looks
like I should drink.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
The gold, don't.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Or the whole bottle.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
I'm telling you. It just it's alcohol poisoning.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
It's not Yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's that's what Yeah,
that's that's that's. Actually another reason why it's so hard
to complete this book, bust In Rock, is because it
is about me still drinking. And I'm like, right, I'm
like God, I'm like why why, like why was I
actually why was I doing so I'm writing about it,

(01:11:10):
so like I'm putting it's it's a very vulnerable book.
I'm like throwing. So it's like it's a book of
like military and transition, it's a book about finding myself.
And then at the same time I'm still drinking, right,
and I take another two years after that book, I
find it's ober. But it's like, man, I am not
liking writing who I was back then, Like I don't.

(01:11:32):
I don't like writing about that, you know, And so
I think it's like someone told me. I was like, hey, man,
that's actually that's actually more real, Like people need to
hear more stories like that of like people.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
Keep writing and just turn your page and keep writing
and then it'll be done. Yeah yeah, and then it'll
be there and then everyone's going over check it out.
I'm just saying, just keep writing and then turn the page. Okay,
write it out, turn the page, as I tell you.
I should tell myself the same thing, just do it.

(01:12:05):
I'm already do an airborne stop.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
Yeah yeah, no, that's that's good. I'll take that advice.
So I'll heat your advice.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Thank you ForWord written by rad.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
You're great and I'm so glad you reached out, you know,
and I know we're filming this during November, and this
is going to go out probably into November, maybe into December.
But you know, I just want to say thanks for
being you, and to your grandfather and your grandfather and
your grandfather and your grandfather and your grandfather and your
grandfather and your grandfather and all of the grandmothers that

(01:12:44):
dealt with all of your grandfathers. So and your own dad,
no matter how rougher, you know, not rough, it was
in your life, you know, for you to be here
and you know, to carry the torch. And I have
mad respect for you know, Indigenous and for Native. And

(01:13:05):
you know, my friend yellow Horse, when you talked about
gray Horse, my friend Calvin yellow Horse, shout out Calvin.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
He's here at Fort Duchhane.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
Which is a reservation here in Utah. When you say
yellow when you say gray Horse, it makes me think
yellow Horse because they're Lakota and Utah. His wife is
Utah and he's Lakota his dad. So they married and
he lives down.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Here, you I think, but uh okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
Yeah, So they met each other one in Dakota's and
then down here and they got married and they had
their son Calvin. But long story is a yellow horse
is their last name, and gray horse means that the
guy with the gray horse. Yeah, so Calvin, listen, bro,
I just figured out how you got your last name.

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
Yeah, that's that's that's how we got it. Like that's
our like our family name. I mean, Norcross came from
one of our last name. Oh no, no, no, no, no,
it's not not anymore. It's nor Cross now. But the
reason north Cross is around is because the Yeah, one
of the recruiters in World War One, right, it was like, hey,

(01:14:13):
we can't we can't take your Navajo name. And this
guy are our great great great great grandfather was like, uh,
he's like, well they're talking to recruiters, like how did
you get here. He's like, I walked here. Well, your
first name is gonna be walker. He's like, what about
your last name? He said, he said, we said his
last name. He's like, he's like, we can't take your
last name. Like and the guy was like, you know what, man,

(01:14:36):
you seem like a good dude. You walked all over
here from the gallup or forty fines to Albuquerque or
Albuquerque gallop, Like you walked over. That's a long ways
a while. You could have my last name. Your last
name is nor Across walking north Across, and then that
was that That's how we got that's that's that's that's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
Oh I love that story. I'm so glad we got
that into this. Okay, So thank you for sharing. Thank you. Yeah, Cyrus, Cyrus,
you're one. You're probably I think the longest interview I've
had in my time doing this for soft Reap.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Usually we get around around fifty minutes to.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
An hour, but I'd be bro we're like in it
and that's really something to say about your demeanor and
I just think you're a cool dude and to talk
and there's so much that you just put it out
there real well, and I just want to say thanks
for bringing that to us. And as I wind down
the show, I just wanted to let everyone know to,
you know, check out your links. We're going to put

(01:15:37):
them in the website. Okay, So for that website that
you have where we can check out your stories, make
sure that we have that. Either say it again or
write it in an email so we can make sure
that it's on the web page and people just click
on it. Your Instagram how they can reach you, et cetera.

Speaker 4 (01:15:53):
Right, Okay, yeah, yeah, so my Instagram is Cyrus Starcross.
You'll find me, just just type it down. It's actually
Navajo is my one of the names. And then I
do I do have Twitter and stuff. I don't use
them at all or x now I mean, and yeah,

(01:16:18):
I do have Facebook, so I'm pretty active on Facebook.
So you can just find on their sires Starcross, right,
and yeah, I got a LinkedIn as well, So I do.
I do all that. I'm working on a website right
now to really kind of throw a lot of my
my photos, a lot of my stories on there, and
to actually have my some video work that I've done,
like just short videos, you know, so just to throw

(01:16:40):
it in there. So that's kind of where so that
the website eventually could get out, probably would be sometime
next month or next year. So I'm working on a
website right now, and yeah, that'll be out. But yeah,
I'm Instagram on Instagram and Facebook and I'm linked Okay, cool,
and I'll email you, yeah, I'll email you to the

(01:17:03):
journalists link because that's it's a really weird one. If
you if you type my name up, you'll see like
some stuff pop up, but you won't see that website
for someone reason. So I am it's a journalist portfolio website,
and then when people look forward, they can't find it.
So I'm just gonna I'll just like shoot that directly.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
Email, yeah, email that to me, and then we'll have Anton,
my producer, Anton, just insert that in there so people
can click on it on softwap dot com. And then also,
you know, I reach out to those that interview with me,
and if you ever want a little bit of a
platform to do an article and write about Ranger.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Time or you know, Navajo time on.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Softwarep I'm sure we would take an article or two
from you to help keep that going for you as
well and have us to help push you into the
same time you came.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
From, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:50):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, like you said, there's not
many indigenous journalists out there, you know now, so got
like a Pokemon and come over here, come with you, okay.
So I'm just saying I do that. You know, we
do have journalism going on here and from people like

(01:18:10):
yourself who have been in the know, and you don't
necessarily have to write about what being you're undercover and
you can talk about Hey, this is how you pack
a parachute. See you later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, real simple.
We'll touch base in email and on behalf of myself
and Brandon Webb, who owns and runs the website softwap
dot com, and Cyrus Norcross. You know, I want to

(01:18:33):
say thanks for you the listener, listening, watching, sharing, commenting.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
You know, tell me you don't like me, tell.

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
Me you like me. Leave it all down below, Just
get involved, get active, read a book, go check out
soft rep dot com, Forward, slash Book, hyphen Club and
our merch store, and you know, happy Indigenous People's month,
year and Millennia because you know, bro, you were here

(01:19:02):
way before anybody else, and America owes you all of
its gratitude. Okay, I just want you to know, and
everybody that lives who's listening on the reservations you know,
I'm grateful. So thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:19:19):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks, thank you for
having me.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
Yeah it was great.

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
It was a great talk, great conversation. Look it all around.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Not the last time I'll have you back on all right,
We'll keep you just like as a regular appearing guest
and I think our listener will love to, you know,
hear more of your stories because you're super cool to
listen to, so keep it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:43):
Yes, But if we ever get together, man, definite handshake
and a hug because I appreciate you going to stand
and rock and being who you are, so thank you
for that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
Yeah yeah, all right cool.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
Well this is me saying enough is enough, and I
got to sign off, and rad is saying peace from
all of us here at Software.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
You've been listening to surf Red Radio

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