April 6, 2024 • 54 mins
John Dailey is a retired Marine Corps Master Sergeant and author of Tough, Rugged Bastards. In 2003, Dailey was handpicked to become the team leader of Detachment One, the first Marine Corps unit assigned to the US Special Operations Command. Their battlefield success became the proof-of-concept for the formation of the Marine Special Operations Command (MARSOC).
Dailey shares how the title of his book came about. As team leader, he was free to choose the members of his team but was instructed to select "tough, rugged bastards with strong backs and hard feet" as the sole stipulation. The book covers the creation, training, and deployment of Detachment One, ultimately leading to the creation of MARSOC.
Learn more about John Dailey: https://www.jadailey.com/
Get a copy of Tough, Rugged Bastards: https://amzn.to/49lvWWk
Join the SOFREP Book Club here: https://sofrep.com/book-club
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Mute for us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're
listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails on straight
Talk with the guys in the community.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hey, what's going on? This is rad and you are
listening or watching another episode of soft Reap Radio. I
am super excited to talk to my next guest. But
before I introduce you and his disclaimers, Okay, so stay tuned.
I want to talk about the merch store. So we
have soft reap dot com forward slash Merch. We have
all of our branded goods in there with the Softwap
(00:56):
logo soft Reap Radio. We really appreciate you guys supporting
and helping, really honestly to keep the gas place going.
I love to do the show, so thank you again
to Brandon Webb for thinking about me as the host.
Thank you to you the listener for buying our merchant,
listening and commenting and all of those things that you
guys do to keep us going. And then also the
book club. We have the soft rep dot com Forward
(01:16):
slash book hyphen Club. Please go check it out if
you like to read. If you notice that my guest
has a lot of books behind him, The book club.
It's a cool place to be. All the cool kids
are at the book club, So go check out soft
rep dot com book club. And without further ado, I
want to bring on John Daly, who comes with the disclaimer.
All right, His disclaimer is that these are his opinions
(01:37):
and his solely. He doesn't represent any higher agency other
than himself and whoever he says he represents. But I
want to let you know that this is just a
good conversation between two dudes who are going to talk
about tough, rugged bastards, which is the book that he
has written with his experience from the United States Marine
Corps MARSK SOCOM. Welcome to the show, John.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Thanks Rand I'm super stoked to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
We're super stoked to have you here. And I love
the fact that you're stoked always. So we made sure
there was a disclaimer said that you know, this is
just straight up talk. But I want to ask you
a question right for my viewers that may not see
it and you hear it. He has a paddle on
his wall that has the spade encompassed in a circle
(02:21):
with a red circle around that spade. That lets me
think Pendleton or West coast. Maybe what's going on with
that paddle.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
That is actually the Marsak emblem, So it's not I
did spend most of my time out at Pendleton, and
they do have a similar the Camp Pendleton emblem, which
was initially a brand that was branded on the cattle
that roamed on that when it was a ranch. But yeah,
that particular emblem is the Marine Corps Special Operations Command,
(02:51):
and that's where I retired from active duty from.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
That's let you. I have a friend that was in
the first recon out there, and I think their symbol
is the spade as well. I think of that sort
in a circle, So I was just thinking of that
was the same, all right.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Now, the Marsk emblem encompasses all three of the battalions,
the raider battalions and the raider support battalions that fall
underneath the component.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So why would a guy like you have that or
what does that or signify.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So the tradition of the paddles, and I've got a
few of them scattered around here, allegedly goes back to
the Marine Raiders of World War Two. And I say
allegedly because it's a little bit of a little bit
of myth, right, But the legend has it that when
it when you checked into a raider unit and then
later into a reconnaissance unit, one of the first things
(03:43):
they issued you was a paddle because we're amphibious, right,
so we do a lot of small boat operations, and
when it came time for you to leave the organization,
the paddle would be stolen, you know, it would be
kind of sanded down, cleaned up, decorated and then presented
act to you when you left. We've largely found that
that's that's not true, and that the tradition originated quite
(04:08):
a bit later, you know, in the eighties actually, or
the seventies maybe, but it's it's still it's it's less
important the validity of the of the tradition than it
is the tradition. So the idea really means that, you know,
on a on a small boat team like with us
with the raiders or amphibious reconnaissance or with the Seals,
(04:29):
that you you're everything relies on the team. You can't
get anywhere with one guy paddling, right, It takes a
team effort. So the paddles a symbol that you served
and pulled your weight on a team.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
With regards to small boats, we're talking like these black
looking you know styles Zodiac, the F.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Four seventies, the ones that you spent a lot of
time paddling.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So like guys get washed in the surf trying to
get out of the break, Like all the recruiter enlistment
promos where they're going up the wave, you just know
they're going backwards after that point. That's it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, And that's that's where small engines, you know, outboard
engines come in handy. But there are there are times
when when it's it's necessary for one reason or another,
the engine goes out that you have to always have
to be prepared to paddle, and it just really represents
that everybody's got to pull their own weight.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And so you're saying there is an engine available after training,
so there might be an engine on that it's not
just all the alley.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, yeah, we do. We do use use engines when available.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah for sure. So if there's a young man out
there who's thinking about going into the Marine Corps and
he's thinking about, you know, hey this who knows where
boot camp takes you? Right? Do you get pulled out
of boot camp and to go into any specialty schools, Like, hey,
you know, all the drill starters are standing around and
watching the fastest guy and then he gets pulled over.
Is that kind of how it is for you getting
pulled in?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Not generally you uh, before you come in, you'll talk
with the recruiter and and yes you have a wish list,
Hey I want to do this, this or this, and
as long as you make it, you when you get
to following boot camp, you'll go to the school for
that specialty. Now that's the exception to that is MARSK.
To become a raider, you have to actually spend a
(06:15):
couple of years proving yourself in the Marine Corps before
you get the opportunity to try out.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well that's a bad US. So you got to be
already tenured and then they want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah exactly. Yeah, we have our own separate recruiters that
you know, a marine you know sends an email to
and says, hey, I'd like to opportunity to try out.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah exactly, So then they put forth the effort. So
once you get into the Marine Corps and you go
through all of the in processing and what is it
called MCRD marine Corps recruiting gess, yeah, the recruit.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Depot, and then the Marine Combat Training and whatever your
specialty is, the infantry school if you're an infantryman or
you know, there's I don't know how many various occupational specialties,
so many you can come from any of those that
apply to come to Marstock. So we've had people that
played the tuba. We've had, you know, people whose job
(07:07):
it was to tell the weather, you know, people who
you know, certainly lots of infantrymen and reconnaissance folks, but
admin clerks and crew chiefs.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Sometimes the tuba player just gets it. Huh.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Sometimes sometimes they do. We've had some success with tuba players.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I love that that is that shows that anybody has
the opportunity as long as they just have the mentality.
I'd imagine. Right, I'm not a raider. That's a hardcore thing,
bro and your hardcore and I'm not I'm not even
trying to lightly you know, say, what you did that
wave going over, that's just a piece of what you've
done to your body to stay in a professional athletees.
(07:45):
You're a professional athlete. There's like just no question about it.
You were paid just to work out to do a
mission in a job as an athlete. Basically, in my opinion,
my father was a Green Beret, so I would, you know,
ride my bike while he rucksacked and he ran with
his rock just like a normal day. That's normal, yeah,
to me as a kid growing up. So you know,
(08:06):
I remember we'd go up to the base here Hill,
Air Force Base in Salt Lake and he'd be running
up the hill and I'd be riding my bike next
to him and he's just taking me out, you know,
as his father's son and han his run. And someone
pulled over and they're like, hey, do you guys need
a ride up to the base. And he's like, no,
we're good, dude, and we're going around and like another
two more miles this way back to the house. We're
not going to the base, which is right there. So
(08:27):
you know, I saw the difference between the Air Force
and the Army at that very moment in my life
as young man.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot. And I've been retired from
active duty for six two thousand and eight, so I've
been I've been out of it for a while on
an activeduty side, I still have the great you know
fortune to work with with raiders and help train raiders.
But yeah, the we share a lot in common with
(08:53):
professional athletes kind of with the exception generally of the support,
you know, people taking care of you like a professional athlete.
That's that's gotten better. So with you know, physical therapist,
physical trainers, on staff, nutrition as coaches.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Kind of across the board.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
To recognize that the folks that do this job, you know,
across all the branch of service, are you know, particularly
special operations or you know, it takes a toll on
your body. Oh yeah, I can attest to.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Oh yeah, I bet, I bet. Are you going to
the VA at all or are you using that aspect
of your military benefit?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, we I'm fortunate in that being retired
and living right beside Camp Lejun, I also can go
on base to the medical facilities there. Sure, but but yeah,
the VA provides some benefits that the military doesn't.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So that is lucky. You are lucky to have a
base next to you with medical facilities that you can
go on. I mean, Hill Air Force Base is a
huge base here in Utah. But they don't they shut
down all of that medical just mandatory you know airman
stuff that go into the clinic. It's now called the clinic.
Used to be surgery in there, but now it's just
a clinic and maybe an ambulance for on call stuff. So,
(10:02):
you know, most folks don't have that luxury to have,
Like Camp La June. How's that water? What is that?
Is that real? Is that water thing?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It's it's well, it's not a thing anymore. But I
actually had joined the Marine Corps and I was I
was here for the tail end of that for only
about a month. So I signed up for the little register,
you know, in case I have any issues later on.
But between that and the burn pits and all the
other you know things that the Marine Corps exposed me
(10:33):
to over the years, I feel like I'm in pretty
good shape at the moment.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Would you retire as John if you don't mind.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I was a master sergeant.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
A master sergeant in the Marine Corps is not a joke. No, no, no.
So the next thing up is a master guns or
were you a master guns? Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
No, I was a master sergeant, so there would have
been one more step. I was close to it, but
I was in the position that I was in, you know,
it seemed like it was time for me to move.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
On and take your client times about. Yes. Yeah, by
moving on, I got to kind of stay.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So I was able to leave active duty and almost
immediately returned to Marshak to the school as a sibon.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So it's it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Was a right decision for me. You know, there are
certainly times when I regret, you know, not having you
worn the rank of a master gun. So it's kind
of the epitome of coolness in my book.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, right, because I mean, yeah, it would be. That
would be you know, you got so high on that ladder,
and then that next thing is you know, master guns.
But congratulations to you getting there on your master sergeant rank.
That's you know, I know, all these young marines, all
these pooleys that turn into a private are just like,
you know, I can't wait to be a corporal or
a lance corporal, Like I can't wait. You know, it's
just like the and then staff sergeant, and then it's
(11:50):
gunnery sergeant, you know, and it's just like and you
get there, and then it's the gunny sleeve rolls and
then it's not the gunny sleeve rolls right exactly out
when you were writing your book. That's coming out. It
comes out later this summer in August or they're about
really just in time for fourth quarter, really perfect timing.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's called tough Rugged Bastards. You know you all Marines
are that. That's how I see it. Why did you
come up with tough rugged bastards? And tell us a
little bit about the story that's going to happen in
this book. So my listener is going to want to
go and get.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
That, certainly. So a real quick history when in nineteen
eighty seven Special Operations Command was activated and when it
was the Marine Corps was invited or to participate and
send the Force Reconnaissance marines over. The Marine Corps pushed
back against that, said no, we don't want to do that.
(12:45):
So that was about right when I was coming in
the Marine Corps, and it took me a while to
work my way into Force recon By two thousand and one,
I was a gunnery sergeant and I was a platoon
sergeant for a Force recon pultoon setting in a pub
in Darwin, Australia, drinking beer when because the time difference,
(13:08):
the television switched to the towers. You know, it was
like ten o'clock at night, so we were almost immediately
back on the boat headed to Afghanistan. So I hit
Afghanistan in November of two thousand and one. And as
that was happening, the government was realizing that with this
coming war there was going to be a great requirement
(13:30):
for special operations forces. So the Army Special Forces was
told to grow, grow more, the Seals were told to grow,
and the Marine Corps was told, hey, you're going to
participate this time around and again. In kind of true
Marine Corps fashion, the Marine Corps was, you know, now,
we're good. We really we kind of like to keep
to ourselves. But Secretary at Defense Rumsfelds, you know it
(13:53):
said hey, I'm not stuttering, You're gonna You're gonna do
this thing. So what they eventually worked out was that
we would form a test unit and it would it
was called Detachment One. We would deploy underneath the seal infrastructure,
and uh, you know, based on the success of that deployment,
(14:13):
the determination would be made if there would Morshock would
be created or not.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And I had the.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Great fortune to be selected to be one of the
team leaders in that unit. So there were four of
us initially, you know, four team leaders. There were gunnies
and masters, sergeants, and total of about about one hundred
personnel total to kind of across the shooters h to
intel folks, to communicators, terminal error controllers, kind of across
(14:40):
the mix. And we were called, like I said, Detachment one.
And the commander was a guy who I had worked
for previously at Force Rican and he's really a legend
in Force Rican, Colonel Robert J. Coates, And he was
the kind of guy that I had worked for forever.
But still, you know, when he called you into his office,
you stood up really straight, and you were nervous, all right,
(15:04):
just to be around him. And so he called me
into his office and gave me his expectations of what
he expected of his team leaders, and uh, you know,
one of the things that stuck in my head always
was said, he said, hey, I want you know, you
get to pick your own team, but I want tough,
rugged bastards with strong backs and hard feet. And so
(15:26):
that uh, you know, I went out and I found,
you know, a bunch of tough, rugged bastards that that
wanted to be a part of it. And uh, that's
that's where the name of the book came from.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So Colonel Coats. Yes, I bet I feel like I
should just stand up straight right now thinking about you know.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, he was, I mean a guy, as a young
young recon officer, was was down in South America doing
things like as as like one of the few Americans
down there. You know, I just had a just a legend,
and so you know, when the opportunity came, I had
worked with them with the Rain Expeditionary Unit. I had
had him as a commanding officer twice and then then
(16:08):
a third time with Detachment one. So it was, uh,
you know, it was a phenomenal experience. So we we
trained up deployed with as a task unit. So we
were called tasking a Raider underneath the Navy Seal Task
Group you know archestra task forces.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah. Do you guys all wear the same uniform? You
guys all wore the same uniform as seals to look
the same you guys, did they wear the same thing
as you?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
We didn't. We didn't work with I mean immediately with them.
I mean, so there were Seal teams doing their thing.
We were doing our own thing, but we just reported
to the Seal. But we wore we all wore the
at the time, the old kind of tricolor Tricolor desert uniform.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Coffee stained looking desert storm that was Moornato with the
chocolate chip. But you guys had the Tricolor colors.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yes, yeah, it was it was cool. You know that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
That set us.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Apart a little bit. We really because of the requirements
of this evaluation. They did not want us working with
other Marine units. They wanted to kind of succeed or
fail on our own. So we worked. Like I said,
we reported to a Navy Seal Task Group and occasionally
we would do some some things with them. We worked
pretty closely with a Polish gram a U and yeah,
(17:28):
a bunch of bad asses.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
So we love piano. They have a piano lore about
their whole thing with their piano.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
The awesome and we had UH And it wound up
being a really eventful deployment in two thousand and four,
a lot of raids we got the opportunity to go after.
We were really sent there to target sell leaders and
bomb makers and financiers and higher level folks. So it
was it was a blast. We got to uh protect
(17:58):
the we were response for protecting the vice president who
was a Kurd and uh not not didn't have too
many fans across the board to the other sitting and
that is where, yeah, nobody was really big fans of
the Kurds their land. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Hello, there's like twenty thirty million Kurds wandering all over
what's we call Syria, Iraq and the Middle East, and
they were these lines were drawn by the Ottoman Empire
that just goes straight down the map and just broke
up their whole Curtis.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Stand Yeah, and they really separated them and kind of
created this diaspora of folks that you know, and the
times that we worked with him, he was a great guy.
The vice president, Reis Shahwe's you know, we didn't work
I mean I didn't get the opportunity that sat down
and chat with them a whole lot. He was the
interim vice president, so they were kind of busy, you know,
(18:50):
trying to rebuild the country. But but that was a
really neat opportunity. You know, we had a pretty robust
sniper presence and so you know, I got the opportunity
to lead some sniper missions in different places.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So it was a.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Really great deployment. We came back from that and ultimately
the decision was then made to increase the size, so
Marsok was activated in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
You know, my background is a lot of war games.
I do a lot of Airsoft war games here in Utah.
I work with a lot of people that you know,
get out or never could get in and they go
and have a good time shoulder to shoulder, wear that
kind of gear and play war games. In that time
period Marsok was coming out, there was like a nineteen
eleven pistol that was like coined to Marsok. They like
(19:40):
get the nineteen eleven I think, and then all of
a sudden, Airsoft it was like you got to have
a Marsok load out. It was like you're the Kobe Bryants,
You're the Michael Jordans of that day. And everybody's like, okay,
I need black knee pads with tricolor and like, you know,
cause it wasn't quite you know, we're still dealing with
old surplus stuff. So our software mechanics, gloves from you
(20:02):
know the local checker auto or something like that, by
personal purchase stuff. Oh, like the skate knee pads for
like skateboarding, right right, Like the protect helmets.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, yeah, we had at different times we wore like
all of those things, but we had. What was interesting
was that with the pistol, particularly with some Marine Corps
had held on to the nineteen eleven for you know,
long after everybody had gone to the nine mil. And
you know, it took like all of the pistols that
(20:32):
the Marine Corps could put together and our armors, our
match armors to kind of rebuild them and try to
get them any shape. And you know, we were just
convinced that, you know, you needed a man size round
to stop people. So maa, we we carried you know,
the the nineteen eleven. Were super proud of it. But
when when Debt one started, there warn't enough to go around,
(20:54):
and so we went to Kimber and had Kimber build
a gun for us. And I've got one around somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's uh it we are doun for air softers too.
I'm not even a kid. It's like, you know, oh,
do you have the EMYU or the MARSK nineteen eleven
and it has the spade on the grips and whatnot,
and you know, I just want you know, that's it's
flattering for that to happen, right.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Cool, Yeah, I was. I was kind of flattered to
looking up something and the Marine Special Operations re Enactment
Battalion like showed up like MSORB. I was like, what
the what the heck? You know, it kind of made
it now and you know, now we've got people dressing
up and going out and doing things, So that was
(21:38):
that was kind of cool when I saw that. Some
I mean, I'm sure it's grown a lot now, but
this was years ago.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, years ago, and it was very like, you know,
underground and a lot of people might have mistook it
as something other than but none of these people are
trying to like get on a base in that gear.
No one's trying to. They're playing like at the you
know two on two where Kobe Bryant jersey. He's not
going to show up to the basketball court be like,
hey kid, take my jersey and shoes off. Bro, you're
not me what are you doing? No, He's like no, Wow,
(22:05):
you know today's air softer could be tomorrow's you right right,
you know they're out there, they're putting their boots on
the ground already. They've already got the gear. They should
just now. They's got to have a mentality in the
and the and if you're thinking about it, yeah, just
go get it done and give it a shot and
see if it's what is in your toolbox. You just
don't know unless you try. That's all I can say.
(22:25):
All right, yeah, exactly, you know, because who knows.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, I'm sure there there are a lot of very successful,
you know, special operation folks across the services that have
got their start. I mean I got my start running
around in the woods with you know, recreation World War
two or stuff own er Vietnam, you know, surplus stuff,
you know, pretending like I was on a long range
reconnaissance patrol, you.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Know, still wearing it. Look, these are R d L
Vietnam issued. You know how hard it is to find
a pair of six foot five issue Vietnam kit and yeah,
I can imagine that is hard. And when they showed up,
I was like, and they're so comfortable nineteen sixty eight
on the tag?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Wow, Wow?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
How many farts? Could this thing? Tell me about it?
You know? Yeah, I'm sure I've seen some things. One
time we were in the bush. These pants saved my
life I'm sure you did pants. I'm sure you did it.
Oh my gosh. Now, okay, so how old were you
when you enlisted in the Marine Corps? I like to
find that out. Yeah, I was. I was seventeen.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I always just you know, graduated from high school and
I had already signed up and was already ready to go.
I had a date, you know. So it was about
I turned eighteen in boot camp. So I had known
from the time I was little that, you know, that's
what I wanted to do. And so I, you know,
(23:53):
kind of you know, grew up in the era where
you know, everything was about Vietnam, you know, from all
the TV shows and movies and Chuck Norris and Rambo
and and everything, and none of all of that just yeah,
just even the movies that were kind of meant to
be uh like anti war you know or whatever. I
didn't didn't that didn't click, you know, they were just
(24:16):
they were war movies, like The Dirty Dozen, the Dirty Dozen. Yeah, yeah,
absolutely one. I mean I think Rambo was supposed to
have some you know, uh.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's never over, It's never over. It's nothing's over. Yeah it.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Full Metal Jacket came out actually shortly after I joined,
but that was, you know, a hugely anti war movie
that didn't register with us. You know, we just we
thought it was the coolest thing ever.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
So you were you went in after that came out.
So was anything like what you went through when you
saw Full Metal Jackets? You say, oh, hey, he hit
hit it on the head with his basic training, or
did you think, ah, you know, now it's that came out.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I saw that after I finished boot camp, so yeah,
and it was pretty quickly after. I mean, I think
within a couple of months. You know, we all were
in infantry school and we went to go see it.
And there are a lot of I mean a lot
of similarities you know in boot camp and the some
of it it seems incredibly mindless. You know, he's getting
yelled at and so you know, he did a really
(25:18):
good job with that. I thought, you know, I really
kind of wish I would have seen it before I went.
I think it would have prepared me a little bit.
Oh really, yeah, I think so. I think I had
the uh fortune. I think, you know, I quickly realized
that you know, the good fortune and at boot camp
(25:41):
was a game, right, I mean, you've got to get
through it. It's serious and there's obviously stuff to learn,
but uh, you know, a guy who can't be mad
at you, you know, because your brand new it this
thing screaming at you in your face. You know, if
you you could either take that to heart or you
could realize that hey man, he's he's doing his thing,
trying to make me better. And so you know, I
can uh, I can dig it right, So I'll uh,
(26:04):
you know, I'll do I'll play the game, I'll uh,
I'll yell loud if he wants me to yell.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I'll run as fast as he wants me to to run.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
And then you know, when I get get through with
this kind of proven you know that I'm I have
what it takes, then I'll be ready to you know, learn,
you know whatever it is that that these guys have
to teach.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Me, right, and they want to see you succeed. They're
there to see you succeed. They're not there to see.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah they don't do it, yeah they uh, I mean
it's varies, I think, you know, but as long as
you're somebody that's that's putting out doing a good job, yeah,
they they want you to to be successful. I'm sure
there are people that they they're doing everything in their
power to get to get out.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
But uh, and I.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Never I came close, really close, but I never went
back to be a drill instructor.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I never. You know, it's really something I wanted to do.
That's like a perfect marine right there.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I mean there's there's absolutely value. And I mean
you're you're making the next generation. It's it's super important.
But it's just really wasn't. It wasn't for me. I'm
not much of a screamer, you know.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, and you'd have to, you'd have to. It's constant.
But I mean, you know, the running and just the
complete rigorous torture on your body. You know, to be
a drill instructor has got to be just in its
own just like your reek, just like going through Marsk
and everything he did. You guys have to just consistently
be badass. You can't catch it fault. It takes.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
It takes its toll, you know, but you can. All
you can do is keep after it, right, you know.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Keep well. You got lucky because you were able to
cross into it, right. So we have a lot of
veterans that I don't know, maybe there's like just like
a stigma out there, like how do I transition from
military civilian life? You know, I don't know if it's
something that is more said than is actual. You know,
I have been reached out by people through media and like, hey,
how do you get into podcasting? You know, I'm interested
(27:59):
in that, or how do I write a book? What's
your take on the transition from I mean, you went
into the same kind of gig, right.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So I always tell and I do a lot of coaching,
you know, like performance coaching, personal coaching, and talk with
a lot of guys who are getting out and it's
I mean, it's a pretty real thing. You know, if
you've spent your life in the military now getting out
at you know, you're kind of the big cock on
the walk. You know, you're you know, a master and
(28:28):
master guns or whatever your rank is, and now you're
getting ready to go into an absolutely unknown world, you know,
whether that's back to school, which I you know I did,
is like a forty year you know, forty some year
old man kind of scared to death, you know, going
to school with college kids right to you know, going
out into a real that we call it the real world.
But you know, a job market and trying to get
(28:49):
a job, and there's just it's it's challenging. I skipped
a lot of that because I never really left. I'm
starting to think about, you know, actually going into the
real world one of these one of these days, I
just got to figure out what I'm gonna do when
I grow up, what I grow up?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yes, I love it. Uh.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
The The thing I think for you know, veterans to
realize people that are getting out is that, I mean,
you bring a lot to the table. You know, you've
there's so much that you've seen and done that that
will be value added, you know, any sort of organization.
I but I generally tell people that's don't rush into anything,
you know, don't It's a little bit different than it
(29:28):
was on our parents' time, you know, you kind of
My dad was in the Navy for a couple of
years during Vietnam.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Got out.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
You know, you work at a job until you die, basically,
you know, that's that's not the way the world works anymore.
I mean, people, you know, take a job, you know,
until you find something else. You know, they kind of
work to live, not live to work, hopefully, and I
think that's a good way of looking at it. But
there's absolutely a lot of opportunities and I think it's
not something that veterans immediately think of, but uh, you
(29:59):
know in writing and creative spaces, right, even if it's
not something that you make your living at because I'm
I'm not gonna, I don't have all this because of
the book, right, It's that book's not gonna It might
put a couple of meals on the table, but it's
it's not going to allow me to retire. But I
think there's a huge benefit and kind of veterans getting
out and exploring those things.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah, one hundred percent, you know, and maybe taking advantage
of the benefits that they have after they get out
of like their VA home loan or like using you
know the other benefits that are if they filed up
for their GI bill in basic or whatnot, how to
take it out and I forgot about it. Hey, go
take advantage of your school. Just get a c Okay,
it's make sure you get ces.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, it's changed so that you don't even have to
do that. Everybody is blanketed the GI bill is really
that's the best. So I did when I was in
boot camp, we had to sign up, and we were
you know, deducted one hundred dollars a month for a year.
And along the way, the uh they you know, after
(31:02):
post nine eleven, they did away with that, and so
I was I was able to and I was not
a I mean I was on the first thing smoking
a book camp, right I had. I was not a student.
I didn't really like Uh, I didn't like school. But
you know, as I went through the Marine Corps, I
realized that, you know, education is is super valuable. One
thing I've always loved to read. All right, So like
(31:23):
you guys book club, I think is a is an
absolutely great thing. But you know, before I retired, I
was able to finish a bachelor's degree online, all online
and homeland security. So my intent was to get out
and become a security consultant. That didn't didn't pan out,
and but I was able to use the GI bill
to I went back to college. Like I said, I
(31:45):
got a master's in in literature or liberal arts focus
in literature. And that really kind of got me, you know,
got me thinking that, hey, you know, I really like writing. Uh,
I should give this a whirl. So I went back
got another master of fine Arts and and creative writing
from the University of North Carol Carolina here in Wilmington.
(32:05):
And that's you know, that just opened all these doors.
You know, you spend time around writers, you get opportunities
for write. So I'm you know, I can't talk highly
enough about you know, educating yourself. You know, if you're
a veteran or even if you're you know, a young,
younger person that wants to join the military.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I mean, the.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Smarter you are, the more value added.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
You're going to be.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
So you know, you just even if it's doing nothing
more than just reading books, but you know, getting getting
college in.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
And now for.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
The folks that you have the GI bill, they can
they have the opportunity to pass it on to their
kids so their kids can go to school if they
don't use it. And it's it's a pretty phenomenal benefit.
I mean, while I was going you you also get
a living stipend, so you get your college paid for.
You get this eight hundred nine hundred bucks a month
just to live on. So potentially it's I mean, it
(32:54):
would not be challenging for somebody getting out after four
years to say, hey, I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Not going to man I'm going to go to school benefits. Yeah,
such a good benefit. It's huge, it's huge, you know,
I'm so many people don't take advantage you have it nice. Yeah,
it's phenomenal. My eighteen year old daughters like that, I
want to go to Arizona State and I'm like, but
we live in Utah. Yeah, out of state. Yeah, the
double surprise. Yeah, I'm like, but we live here. We
(33:19):
got the University of Utah.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
I'm like, she's like, but Arizona State, that's got the sun.
And I'm like, look, whatever you need. But again, you know,
if she wanted to join like the Navy or the
whatever branch she decided on, and she put in four years,
her school would be you know, yeah, you know, and
that's a huge deal. Yeah, it would be paid for.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
I I you know, I was just reading something that
you know, there's the percentage, well one, the percentage of kids,
you know, high school kids today that are qualified physically
to join the military is like just tanking, all right, Yeah,
I mean there's just not that many that could pass.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
He's changed, right.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
But then there's also like a like fifty percent of
Americans like would not encourage their children to serve in
the military, and I just read this morning.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
There's in fact, I read it on software.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I think there's you know, like thirty five percent of
people in the military wouldn't recommend anybody to join the military.
So there's a lot of you know, there's a lot
of negativity about a lot of things. But I mean
there's still some insanely amazing benefits you know, if you
join whatever whatever branch kind of strikes your fancy, you know,
and quite likely, like we said, there there are thousands
(34:30):
of different jobs across the services. So you know, if
you want to be a photographer, you know, we've got
you know, learn learn how to do it. You know
you want to be uh.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I mean there's there's even like probably people who learn
sound and engineering in the military. There's probably like you know,
there's production.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
In the militarily, within the public affairs realm, there are
people that I mean, there's you know, podcasts, you know
that you know you might have the opportunity to do that.
If not, you know, the you've got you know, the
GI Bill to go to school for free and get
get paid while you do it. So it's I still think,
I mean, I was not I didn't grow up. I
grew up in a relatively modest uh you know household.
(35:11):
John Day was not going to college. They were pinning
all their hopes on my brother, uh skateboarding.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I think he was a skateboard or something or what. No.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
No, I lived up in the mountains of West Virginia,
so we didn't even really have skateboards, right. Uh there
was no sidewalks. We you know, mostly dirt roads and
it's a little rough to it wasn't quite that that
far out. But uh, now I never did get into
get into skateboarding. But yeah, they just there weren't high
(35:39):
hopes being held out for me, so they were pinning.
You know, my smarter brother was I think the first
and our our extended family to go to college. Guess
just wasn't something that people did, right. You got out
of school, you went to work, or you went to
the military.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
But h and I still think it's a great I mean,
it certainly served me very well.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
For for over twenty years.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I had a blast almost not every day but most
most every day. And just I mean I got to
you know, I tell people like, I got to blow
stuff up, I got to jump out of airplanes at
you know, five miles in the.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Sky at nighttime. I got to scuba dive, you know,
shoot literally ride and tracked vehicles with team tracks on them,
and like like you're wearing bump helmets and all sorts
of gear. I love the gear. And let me ask
you something about jumping out of a out of an airplane.
Did you ever have like a close call on that.
You ever have something where it was like this is
my training kicked in and I barely pulled out the
(36:35):
only time, I don't know how close it was.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Like so with the free fall parachute, so you have
the opportunity to with with your static line parachute, you
have a reserve, but with a free fall parachute, you
can cut away, cut away your primary parachute, then release
your reserve. And we were doing a parachute. I know
I never had to do that, but we were doing
(36:59):
a jump and it's one of our it's rare that
you get to jump from thirty thousand feet that's the
amount of airspace that's required. The there's just a lot
of complexities that go into that. But we were up
in the desert. We were doing a jump nighttime, thirty
thousand foot and in order to do that, you've got
(37:19):
to have an oxygen mask on, and see you're breathing oxygen.
I jumped out and you count, I think to six,
all right, to just kind of let yourself get stable,
and then you pull. And you know, with thirty thousand feet,
it's probably like one hundred and sixty below zero with
windshill and.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Everything that's going on.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
So you've got big, big honking sued on big gloves,
and with my big glove I had, when I pulled
my ripcord, I also pulled the oxygen hose out, and
I didn't realize it until I started getting you know,
the whole world started kind of turning black, and so
I realized that, hey, there's you know, I'm trying to
figure it out, and there was nothing that I could do,
(37:59):
like I'm going to pass out. But I had a
parachute open, so that's.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
A good thing.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So I come on the radio and I try to
like just let everybody know because everybody has their parachutes open,
and we're going this way and with from that height,
we were planning to land about forty miles from where
we jumped out. Wow, so we're just like screaming across
the desert. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm about to pass
out here. I'll figure it out. No, but that didn't
(38:26):
come over. It was probably more of like a muffled
scream or whatever. But what I tried, I tried to
dump as much called dumping air, so you pull a
toggle down and that makes you fall faster. But there's
not enough oxygen to sustain consciousness until about twelve thousand feet.
So from thirty thousand feet down to twelve thousand feet
(38:47):
I was. I was out, and then suddenly you wake up,
and it's kind of like waking up from a dream,
but you realize that, hey, I'm screaming at like sixty
miles an hour, you know, through the through the middle
of the night sky.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
And from from where I was, I was able to
look back and see the lights of the airfield that
we had taken off from, so I was able to
turn and I just headed back to that and landed.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Didn't quite make it, but landed.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Luckily. They still had payphones back then, and so I
had some change, so I went and threw some money
in the payphone, called the base and they the first
time they hung up on me. They're like, hey, we're
having an emergency, and.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
They hung up.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Second yeah, the second time, I'm like, hey, man, I'm
the emergency and they're like, so.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Uh, what's the code word? I'm the emergency?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, I guess so. But they're like, all right, we'll
just hang out. We'll come and get you later. So
I went down walked down the street to a bar. Uh,
had a beer and uh usually.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Tom Cruise, did you see this last movie of his
where he is trying to go like mock.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yes, yeah, similarly yeah, yeah, pretty similar thing to that,
Get cut a cup of coffee.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
You're like just totally normal. I'll looking at you like.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Uh, I love that You're badass, bro.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, that was just that was just close. Uh. I
think that was the closest call that I've had.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Oh that was Top Gun, the movie's Top Gun. I
was like, wait, what movie is that?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
That?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Top Tom Cruise is showing that he's yeah, the new
top Gun. Yeah, and uh he walks into his full
gear into the restaurant and there was a staring at him.
They must have took that from you, bro. Maybe Yeah,
I don't know who. Who's there to see some residual
from there. Let's put it a call to CIA real
quick here. Yeah, I should get some royalties or something made.
(40:39):
I'll tell you what. Wow, Wow, you're the real version.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, a little bit different. I mean, I I it
was all my fault. I shouldn't have you know, pulled
out your road.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yeah, yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
The mistake I made there. But it, like I said,
with big gloves on, it's it's it's not impossible to do.
So they've they've sent changed the way that the system
is set up to make that a little more difficult.
I'm not the first guy who's done it, who's popped
that off, and the hopefully yeah, hopefully the last.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
That's the last thing you need to deal with when
you're flying so high altitude low opening halo or were
you high altitude high?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Oh yeah yeah, high altitude high opening. So we jumped already,
huh we're yeah, we were open and luckily, you know,
if if I had not had a parachute open, then
then that would have been a much different story. But so,
I mean, I had a good parachute. It was just
a matter of passing out and coming to when the
air came back.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Have you ever done that into the water, Like have
you ever hayhoed into water? And like, uh, you know,
I don't know, maybe I'm thinking Navy seals Charlie Sheen
and those guys like not into a dive.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
We've jumped into the water, which is which is cool.
The thing that's always kind of scary about that is that,
you know, a parachute falls on top of you, you know,
in the in the middle of the ocean, and it's
just there's a whole lot of lines running from that.
So that's whenever we do those, we'll do some you
know practices in the swimming pool, you know, and just
(42:08):
there's a lot of potential for, you know, for things
to go go wrong.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
So, you know, my dad told me a story one
time with guys that were like in Pensacola, Florida, I
think is what he said. Somewhere in Florida, and they
were doing some high altitude, low opening jumps whatnot. Maybe
it was just regular shoots, but they would release over
the water out of their shoot and one guy just
was like one hundred feet up I'm not sure how
(42:33):
far out, and like kind of hurt him. But you know,
these guys are always trying to pop a little higher
than the other to land in the water.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Is that something that Yeah, So when you are jumping
into the water, you start as you know, as you
are stable and you're you're coming down, you know, you
start preparing to get out of your parachute, so you'll
take off the the chest strap and you know kind
of set yourself in the into the harness and kind
of you're ready to go, so that as soon as
(43:03):
you hit the water, and it's it's very difficult to judge,
you know, when you're when you're above the water. So
that's that's the reason that they they don't want you
popping out too early. But as soon as your feet
hit the water, you're really being held on by your
leg straps, so that's the last thing you pop and
hopefully arch out of it, and the wind generally will
(43:25):
carry the parachute away from you because you land into
the wind. So so it's, uh, it's in a perfect world.
It's it's a lot of fun. There's just always always
the potential in the world. Who is seldom perfect.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
You know. Yeah, and then you're definitely and just yeah,
you're like, oh wait, am I one hundred feet or
forty five feet? Yeah, you know, it's like a little far,
a little far. Yeah that was. That was in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, yeah, things were I'm sure a little uh, I was.
I was in the Marine Corps well late eighties, but
you know, I didn't start doing this stuff until and
then then, So I think, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
So you already get fifty? Are you in your five o's?
I am, Yeah, I'm fifty four. Fifty four.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, it seems really old, right, I don't feel it, so.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
No, you don't seem it. Yeah, I don't get that
from you. I'm forty six. And so I just was like,
you know, you're a seventies child, right.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, I was born in sixty nine, right, sixty nine. Yeah,
I know that Vietnam was raging.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, holy cow, seventy seven here, Yeah, okay, so that
makes total sense. No, I think you're great. I think
you're I'm so happy that you are on the show,
and I hope my listeners have been getting just awesome
stories and listening to your vibe. Dude, you're a badass
bro right on. I know that Tough, Rugged Bastards takes
a lot more than just writing the thoughts of that
(44:48):
book out onto page. I know there was probably things
in there that were real serious that just you know,
are hard to deal with, and you put it on paper.
Do you have anything that you want to talk about
that was just like kind of tough that you put
in there.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So the whole book started. The idea for it really,
at least at a like a kernel of the idea
started when I went back to college or went to college, right,
and uh, we had to write an essay of something
that happened to us, and I was it was it
was luckily I got it out of the way first.
(45:22):
But it was the first essay I wrote that really
started the you know, became the seed for the book
talks about Uh. I think of him as a kid,
but he was he was an adult. But he was
a guy that I shot in uh that Joff Iraq
with a sniper rifle, and you know, looking at him,
I you know, I especially you know obviously it's like
(45:45):
Matthew McConaughey, right, the older and I keep getting older,
but he stays the same age. Uh So, so I,
you know, I wrote this essay called death Letter, and
it was kind of it was like written to him,
and that was really you know, and I wrote that
the professors were like, you know, dug it. You know,
They're like, man, this is really honest, and and I
(46:09):
was like, you know what I mean, maybe there is something.
Maybe I've got something to say, and I've got the
ability to say it in a way that you know,
people would like to listen to. So I took that,
you know, I submitted it to I think I wound
up submitting it to I was a one hundred percent
sure when I sent it off that you know, they
were going to like write me a big check and
publish it and something. And first place didn't, the second place.
(46:33):
Finally we got to like the twentieth, like two years
of submitting and I finally got it, got it published.
And that was the first thing like that that I'd
had published. So but you know, as soon as it does,
you know, you go from being down and dumps to
being on cloud nine to see in your.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Name and things that you wrote, you know, in pages.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So that kind of sat with me, and it took
a little while, and I had some fortunate just meeting
people that encouraged me to write, and you know, the
the fact that I was, you know, one of the
guys in this very small unit was I felt like
a story that should be told. So it's not it's
not a history, you know so much. I mean, it's
(47:13):
you know, called a memoir. You know, it's I mean,
it's my story, my recollections. I mean, some of it,
I think, uh, I mean, there's obviously a lot of
an interesting time in history for anybody.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
There's an interesting time, and.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Certainly a Marine Corps history, special operations history, but there's
also just a you know, it's just from my perspective,
you know, Hey, here's how I felt when this was happening.
So some of it was tough to write, and you
know that one in particular. But since then, you know,
I've had the opportunity with with several different groups, the
Lethal Mince Journal, the Dead Reckoning Collective, and these different
(47:48):
veterans writing groups. You know, had the opportunity to work
with with veterans and writing, you know, get their stories
on paper. And I think it's hugely valuable. You know,
if if nothing else, it never sees a light of day,
if nobody ever reads it, you know, taking you kind
of get it out of your head and and process
it all right, And I think it's you know, I
(48:08):
think if there's any sort of you know, whether it's
a traumatic thing. I think there's absolute value in that,
right and putting on paper and it processes. It doesn't
have to live in your head anymore. It can live,
you know, on a piece of paper that's shoved in
the desk or burned or whatever. But I mean there's
also just the simple fact that you know, whether they're
you know, Savilians of any sort, but particularly people who
(48:31):
were interested in the military, people who you know, especially
people interested in wargames and anything like that. You know,
it's just the idea that hey, I can you know,
read you know what this what was going through this
guy's head. And my goal was to you know, I
grew up reading Vietnam books. You know, there's just tons
of them, right, and then the GAT books you know
(48:53):
that I've read a lot of them are very much
just kind of, Hey, I'm going to write an action
packed book and I'm gonna h you know, I call
it for I'm certainly not poking, you know, throwing rocks
at anybody. But a lot of them aren't necessarily you know,
they don't go into the fact that, hey, I was
pretty fucking scared here, you know, you know, there's some
(49:14):
honesty that that I was hoping, you know, as a
guy with a Master of Fine Arts degree in writing,
that I could bring a little bit of not only
some craft to it, you know, look at different ways
of telling stories and and hopefully keeping people engage while
also being you know, true to the you know, everything
that happened, and uh, you know, honorable to the guys
that served with me. So but the goal I went
(49:36):
into it with was, you know, I want to write uh.
I mean, there's plenty of books for people in the
military about being in the military. You know, I want
to write a book that that they'll enjoy and get
a kick out of. But uh, you know that somebody
who's a civilian could pick up and try to get
a little bit of understanding, you know, what goes on
and through in the heads and hearts and minds of
(49:56):
especially special operations. I think it's quite often misunderstood, you know,
if he people think that we're just we're all a bunch.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Of uh uh. I used to read these alert linebackers, right,
Oh yeah, my dad would have these like books. You know,
they're just books that were written a long range of
conisance patrol books and these lurks. Oh yeah, and stories
of lurps in Vietnam. Right, yeah, that was my bathroom material. Bro.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Those are Uh, there's one you may have. He may
have had Force ricon diary.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's I had that. That one.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
There was two sineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy. The
guy that wrote that was the first Force Recon guy
that Uh. I actually he wrote me a blurb. I
just had the opportunity to like talk, you know, a
couple hours on the phone with him. You know, I
reached out to him kind of cold and like, hey,
I was in you know, the first Force Recon and
here's you know, my my book.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Can I send you the manuscript? And uh?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
And that was that was so cool. So, you know,
if nothing else, you know, I've got to meet some legends. Yes,
another one that uh kind of through the book, John
Striker Meyer, who is one of the Macvie song guys.
He's written a bunch of books. You know, a great
guy you know through the through this, you know, had
the opportunity to meet him and become friends with him.
(51:10):
So I've got like these legends you know that in
some small way kind of emulating you know.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
What does that tell you about yourself?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
John?
Speaker 3 (51:18):
You have a legend on the left side and a
legend on the right side. What are you in the
middle there? I'm just a lucky son of a bitch.
That's exactly right. And it's a it's an honor to
talk to you, bro, And thanks for just being open
with me and having just a casual conversation. We really
have never met each other. This is something that I
(51:38):
want my listeners to hear that you can still have
normal conversations with people no matter where they come from
on the waiver side, and at the end of the day,
we all believe the same red blood. That's it. Hey,
you guy, And so if you want to join the
Marine Corps, I'm down for you to do that. If
you want to join any of the military branches, give
it a shot. I go talk to someone at a
career center, ask him about the GI bill, ask them
(52:00):
what benefits are available. Get that out of them. Ask
them if they can work for you versus you work
for them. At the career center, it's okay, but once
you enlist, you work for them exactly. Now, with that said,
I have had about an hour of time with our
guest John today. It's been a pleasure to have someone
from the United States Marine Corps on the show. I
(52:22):
love the Marines. I think Chesty is my lord and
savior and I have embraced him. I went out to
Camp Pendleton and got to do war games at the
Kilo two Mount facility. Wow, which yeah, which was legit.
And it was nighttime and the fog was rolling in
from ocean side and we had thermals. Oh being wargames. Yeah, yeah,
(52:42):
So people are hanging out of like the makeshift mosques
and all the different positions, like where's the fog coming from?
We're like what, you just see him through the fog?
Nothing like thermals through the fog. Okay, all the night
vision was useless. Oh but that thermal man. So again,
I Chesty out there and I just want to say
(53:03):
thanks again, dude, You've been really a pleasure. And to
my listener. Go check out our book club. It's soft
Rep dot com Forward Slash book Club. Go check out
Brandon Webb's Instagram page. Hit him up and tell them
that I said to say hi on his Instagram page.
Also veteran and an author who's written many novels. You
know he puts it on paper. And again to my listener,
the number one thing I hear from my authors and
(53:24):
other people who I've interviewed, and I've interviewed a hundred
of them is put it on paper. You're not writing
anything when you're thinking about it. You're writing when you
start to actually put it on paper. So if you
can just take your thoughts and put it out there,
and that's what I'm going to say. John did in
his essay class. It took him a second. He's like,
how do I get an a What am I going
to do to draw these guys into my essay? Well,
(53:47):
I'm going to tell them about how I took someone
out in najaff as a sniper in the Marine Corps.
And they're going to sit there and say, shit, you
should submit this. Yeah, and he submitted it, and he
took a lot of and as an actor and someone
who auditions all the time, you gotta be okay with that.
You gotta have thick skin. You just got to believe
in what you want to believe in. You got to
(54:07):
be passionate about it and say you can't tell me
no because I believe in it and you don't understand it.
You just move on to the next I don't know
if that's my coaching and if John agrees, that's cool. Yeah,
but just put it on paper. There you go.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, I absolutely agree.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
Okay, well on behalf of John and Soft Breath and
you the listener and the viewer. I say, all right,
the rat say of peace.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
You've been listening to self rep Radia
Mute for us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're
listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails on straight
Talk with the guys in the community.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hey, what's going on? This is rad and you are
listening or watching another episode of soft Reap Radio. I
am super excited to talk to my next guest. But
before I introduce you and his disclaimers, Okay, so stay tuned.
I want to talk about the merch store. So we
have soft reap dot com forward slash Merch. We have
all of our branded goods in there with the Softwap
(00:56):
logo soft Reap Radio. We really appreciate you guys supporting
and helping, really honestly to keep the gas place going.
I love to do the show, so thank you again
to Brandon Webb for thinking about me as the host.
Thank you to you the listener for buying our merchant,
listening and commenting and all of those things that you
guys do to keep us going. And then also the
book club. We have the soft rep dot com Forward
(01:16):
slash book hyphen Club. Please go check it out if
you like to read. If you notice that my guest
has a lot of books behind him, The book club.
It's a cool place to be. All the cool kids
are at the book club, So go check out soft
rep dot com book club. And without further ado, I
want to bring on John Daly, who comes with the disclaimer.
All right, His disclaimer is that these are his opinions
(01:37):
and his solely. He doesn't represent any higher agency other
than himself and whoever he says he represents. But I
want to let you know that this is just a
good conversation between two dudes who are going to talk
about tough, rugged bastards, which is the book that he
has written with his experience from the United States Marine
Corps MARSK SOCOM. Welcome to the show, John.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Thanks Rand I'm super stoked to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
We're super stoked to have you here. And I love
the fact that you're stoked always. So we made sure
there was a disclaimer said that you know, this is
just straight up talk. But I want to ask you
a question right for my viewers that may not see
it and you hear it. He has a paddle on
his wall that has the spade encompassed in a circle
(02:21):
with a red circle around that spade. That lets me
think Pendleton or West coast. Maybe what's going on with
that paddle.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
That is actually the Marsak emblem, So it's not I
did spend most of my time out at Pendleton, and
they do have a similar the Camp Pendleton emblem, which
was initially a brand that was branded on the cattle
that roamed on that when it was a ranch. But yeah,
that particular emblem is the Marine Corps Special Operations Command,
(02:51):
and that's where I retired from active duty from.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
That's let you. I have a friend that was in
the first recon out there, and I think their symbol
is the spade as well. I think of that sort
in a circle, So I was just thinking of that
was the same, all right.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Now, the Marsk emblem encompasses all three of the battalions,
the raider battalions and the raider support battalions that fall
underneath the component.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
So why would a guy like you have that or
what does that or signify.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So the tradition of the paddles, and I've got a
few of them scattered around here, allegedly goes back to
the Marine Raiders of World War Two. And I say
allegedly because it's a little bit of a little bit
of myth, right, But the legend has it that when
it when you checked into a raider unit and then
later into a reconnaissance unit, one of the first things
(03:43):
they issued you was a paddle because we're amphibious, right,
so we do a lot of small boat operations, and
when it came time for you to leave the organization,
the paddle would be stolen, you know, it would be
kind of sanded down, cleaned up, decorated and then presented
act to you when you left. We've largely found that
that's that's not true, and that the tradition originated quite
(04:08):
a bit later, you know, in the eighties actually, or
the seventies maybe, but it's it's still it's it's less
important the validity of the of the tradition than it
is the tradition. So the idea really means that, you know,
on a on a small boat team like with us
with the raiders or amphibious reconnaissance or with the Seals,
(04:29):
that you you're everything relies on the team. You can't
get anywhere with one guy paddling, right, It takes a
team effort. So the paddles a symbol that you served
and pulled your weight on a team.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
With regards to small boats, we're talking like these black
looking you know styles Zodiac, the F.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Four seventies, the ones that you spent a lot of
time paddling.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So like guys get washed in the surf trying to
get out of the break, Like all the recruiter enlistment
promos where they're going up the wave, you just know
they're going backwards after that point. That's it.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, And that's that's where small engines, you know, outboard
engines come in handy. But there are there are times
when when it's it's necessary for one reason or another,
the engine goes out that you have to always have
to be prepared to paddle, and it just really represents
that everybody's got to pull their own weight.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And so you're saying there is an engine available after training,
so there might be an engine on that it's not
just all the alley.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, yeah, we do. We do use use engines when available.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah for sure. So if there's a young man out
there who's thinking about going into the Marine Corps and
he's thinking about, you know, hey this who knows where
boot camp takes you? Right? Do you get pulled out
of boot camp and to go into any specialty schools, Like, hey,
you know, all the drill starters are standing around and
watching the fastest guy and then he gets pulled over.
Is that kind of how it is for you getting
pulled in?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Not generally you uh, before you come in, you'll talk
with the recruiter and and yes you have a wish list,
Hey I want to do this, this or this, and
as long as you make it, you when you get
to following boot camp, you'll go to the school for
that specialty. Now that's the exception to that is MARSK.
To become a raider, you have to actually spend a
(06:15):
couple of years proving yourself in the Marine Corps before
you get the opportunity to try out.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well that's a bad US. So you got to be
already tenured and then they want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah exactly. Yeah, we have our own separate recruiters that
you know, a marine you know sends an email to
and says, hey, I'd like to opportunity to try out.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah exactly, So then they put forth the effort. So
once you get into the Marine Corps and you go
through all of the in processing and what is it
called MCRD marine Corps recruiting gess, yeah, the recruit.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Depot, and then the Marine Combat Training and whatever your
specialty is, the infantry school if you're an infantryman or
you know, there's I don't know how many various occupational specialties,
so many you can come from any of those that
apply to come to Marstock. So we've had people that
played the tuba. We've had, you know, people whose job
(07:07):
it was to tell the weather, you know, people who
you know, certainly lots of infantrymen and reconnaissance folks, but
admin clerks and crew chiefs.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Sometimes the tuba player just gets it. Huh.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Sometimes sometimes they do. We've had some success with tuba players.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I love that that is that shows that anybody has
the opportunity as long as they just have the mentality.
I'd imagine. Right, I'm not a raider. That's a hardcore thing,
bro and your hardcore and I'm not I'm not even
trying to lightly you know, say, what you did that
wave going over, that's just a piece of what you've
done to your body to stay in a professional athletees.
(07:45):
You're a professional athlete. There's like just no question about it.
You were paid just to work out to do a
mission in a job as an athlete. Basically, in my opinion,
my father was a Green Beret, so I would, you know,
ride my bike while he rucksacked and he ran with
his rock just like a normal day. That's normal, yeah,
to me as a kid growing up. So you know,
(08:06):
I remember we'd go up to the base here Hill,
Air Force Base in Salt Lake and he'd be running
up the hill and I'd be riding my bike next
to him and he's just taking me out, you know,
as his father's son and han his run. And someone
pulled over and they're like, hey, do you guys need
a ride up to the base. And he's like, no,
we're good, dude, and we're going around and like another
two more miles this way back to the house. We're
not going to the base, which is right there. So
(08:27):
you know, I saw the difference between the Air Force
and the Army at that very moment in my life
as young man.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot. And I've been retired from
active duty for six two thousand and eight, so I've
been I've been out of it for a while on
an activeduty side, I still have the great you know
fortune to work with with raiders and help train raiders.
But yeah, the we share a lot in common with
(08:53):
professional athletes kind of with the exception generally of the support,
you know, people taking care of you like a professional athlete.
That's that's gotten better. So with you know, physical therapist,
physical trainers, on staff, nutrition as coaches.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Kind of across the board.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
To recognize that the folks that do this job, you know,
across all the branch of service, are you know, particularly
special operations or you know, it takes a toll on
your body. Oh yeah, I can attest to.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Oh yeah, I bet, I bet. Are you going to
the VA at all or are you using that aspect
of your military benefit?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, we I'm fortunate in that being retired
and living right beside Camp Lejun, I also can go
on base to the medical facilities there. Sure, but but yeah,
the VA provides some benefits that the military doesn't.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
So that is lucky. You are lucky to have a
base next to you with medical facilities that you can
go on. I mean, Hill Air Force Base is a
huge base here in Utah. But they don't they shut
down all of that medical just mandatory you know airman
stuff that go into the clinic. It's now called the clinic.
Used to be surgery in there, but now it's just
a clinic and maybe an ambulance for on call stuff. So,
(10:02):
you know, most folks don't have that luxury to have,
Like Camp La June. How's that water? What is that?
Is that real? Is that water thing?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It's it's well, it's not a thing anymore. But I
actually had joined the Marine Corps and I was I
was here for the tail end of that for only
about a month. So I signed up for the little register,
you know, in case I have any issues later on.
But between that and the burn pits and all the
other you know things that the Marine Corps exposed me
(10:33):
to over the years, I feel like I'm in pretty
good shape at the moment.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Would you retire as John if you don't mind.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I was a master sergeant.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
A master sergeant in the Marine Corps is not a joke. No, no, no.
So the next thing up is a master guns or
were you a master guns? Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
No, I was a master sergeant, so there would have
been one more step. I was close to it, but
I was in the position that I was in, you know,
it seemed like it was time for me to move.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
On and take your client times about. Yes. Yeah, by
moving on, I got to kind of stay.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So I was able to leave active duty and almost
immediately returned to Marshak to the school as a sibon.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So it's it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Was a right decision for me. You know, there are
certainly times when I regret, you know, not having you
worn the rank of a master gun. So it's kind
of the epitome of coolness in my book.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, right, because I mean, yeah, it would be. That
would be you know, you got so high on that ladder,
and then that next thing is you know, master guns.
But congratulations to you getting there on your master sergeant rank.
That's you know, I know, all these young marines, all
these pooleys that turn into a private are just like,
you know, I can't wait to be a corporal or
a lance corporal, Like I can't wait. You know, it's
just like the and then staff sergeant, and then it's
(11:50):
gunnery sergeant, you know, and it's just like and you
get there, and then it's the gunny sleeve rolls and
then it's not the gunny sleeve rolls right exactly out
when you were writing your book. That's coming out. It
comes out later this summer in August or they're about
really just in time for fourth quarter, really perfect timing.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's called tough Rugged Bastards. You know you all Marines
are that. That's how I see it. Why did you
come up with tough rugged bastards? And tell us a
little bit about the story that's going to happen in
this book. So my listener is going to want to
go and get.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
That, certainly. So a real quick history when in nineteen
eighty seven Special Operations Command was activated and when it
was the Marine Corps was invited or to participate and
send the Force Reconnaissance marines over. The Marine Corps pushed
back against that, said no, we don't want to do that.
(12:45):
So that was about right when I was coming in
the Marine Corps, and it took me a while to
work my way into Force recon By two thousand and one,
I was a gunnery sergeant and I was a platoon
sergeant for a Force recon pultoon setting in a pub
in Darwin, Australia, drinking beer when because the time difference,
(13:08):
the television switched to the towers. You know, it was
like ten o'clock at night, so we were almost immediately
back on the boat headed to Afghanistan. So I hit
Afghanistan in November of two thousand and one. And as
that was happening, the government was realizing that with this
coming war there was going to be a great requirement
(13:30):
for special operations forces. So the Army Special Forces was
told to grow, grow more, the Seals were told to grow,
and the Marine Corps was told, hey, you're going to
participate this time around and again. In kind of true
Marine Corps fashion, the Marine Corps was, you know, now,
we're good. We really we kind of like to keep
to ourselves. But Secretary at Defense Rumsfelds, you know it
(13:53):
said hey, I'm not stuttering, You're gonna You're gonna do
this thing. So what they eventually worked out was that
we would form a test unit and it would it
was called Detachment One. We would deploy underneath the seal infrastructure,
and uh, you know, based on the success of that deployment,
(14:13):
the determination would be made if there would Morshock would
be created or not.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And I had the.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Great fortune to be selected to be one of the
team leaders in that unit. So there were four of
us initially, you know, four team leaders. There were gunnies
and masters, sergeants, and total of about about one hundred
personnel total to kind of across the shooters h to
intel folks, to communicators, terminal error controllers, kind of across
(14:40):
the mix. And we were called, like I said, Detachment one.
And the commander was a guy who I had worked
for previously at Force Rican and he's really a legend
in Force Rican, Colonel Robert J. Coates, And he was
the kind of guy that I had worked for forever.
But still, you know, when he called you into his office,
you stood up really straight, and you were nervous, all right,
(15:04):
just to be around him. And so he called me
into his office and gave me his expectations of what
he expected of his team leaders, and uh, you know,
one of the things that stuck in my head always
was said, he said, hey, I want you know, you
get to pick your own team, but I want tough,
rugged bastards with strong backs and hard feet. And so
(15:26):
that uh, you know, I went out and I found,
you know, a bunch of tough, rugged bastards that that
wanted to be a part of it. And uh, that's
that's where the name of the book came from.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So Colonel Coats. Yes, I bet I feel like I
should just stand up straight right now thinking about you know.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, he was, I mean a guy, as a young
young recon officer, was was down in South America doing
things like as as like one of the few Americans
down there. You know, I just had a just a legend,
and so you know, when the opportunity came, I had
worked with them with the Rain Expeditionary Unit. I had
had him as a commanding officer twice and then then
(16:08):
a third time with Detachment one. So it was, uh,
you know, it was a phenomenal experience. So we we
trained up deployed with as a task unit. So we
were called tasking a Raider underneath the Navy Seal Task
Group you know archestra task forces.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah. Do you guys all wear the same uniform? You
guys all wore the same uniform as seals to look
the same you guys, did they wear the same thing
as you?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
We didn't. We didn't work with I mean immediately with them.
I mean, so there were Seal teams doing their thing.
We were doing our own thing, but we just reported
to the Seal. But we wore we all wore the
at the time, the old kind of tricolor Tricolor desert uniform.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Coffee stained looking desert storm that was Moornato with the
chocolate chip. But you guys had the Tricolor colors.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yes, yeah, it was it was cool. You know that.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
That set us.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Apart a little bit. We really because of the requirements
of this evaluation. They did not want us working with
other Marine units. They wanted to kind of succeed or
fail on our own. So we worked. Like I said,
we reported to a Navy Seal Task Group and occasionally
we would do some some things with them. We worked
pretty closely with a Polish gram a U and yeah,
(17:28):
a bunch of bad asses.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
So we love piano. They have a piano lore about
their whole thing with their piano.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
The awesome and we had UH And it wound up
being a really eventful deployment in two thousand and four,
a lot of raids we got the opportunity to go after.
We were really sent there to target sell leaders and
bomb makers and financiers and higher level folks. So it
was it was a blast. We got to uh protect
(17:58):
the we were response for protecting the vice president who
was a Kurd and uh not not didn't have too
many fans across the board to the other sitting and
that is where, yeah, nobody was really big fans of
the Kurds their land. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Hello, there's like twenty thirty million Kurds wandering all over
what's we call Syria, Iraq and the Middle East, and
they were these lines were drawn by the Ottoman Empire
that just goes straight down the map and just broke
up their whole Curtis.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Stand Yeah, and they really separated them and kind of
created this diaspora of folks that you know, and the
times that we worked with him, he was a great guy.
The vice president, Reis Shahwe's you know, we didn't work
I mean I didn't get the opportunity that sat down
and chat with them a whole lot. He was the
interim vice president, so they were kind of busy, you know,
(18:50):
trying to rebuild the country. But but that was a
really neat opportunity. You know, we had a pretty robust
sniper presence and so you know, I got the opportunity
to lead some sniper missions in different places.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So it was a.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Really great deployment. We came back from that and ultimately
the decision was then made to increase the size, so
Marsok was activated in two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
You know, my background is a lot of war games.
I do a lot of Airsoft war games here in Utah.
I work with a lot of people that you know,
get out or never could get in and they go
and have a good time shoulder to shoulder, wear that
kind of gear and play war games. In that time
period Marsok was coming out, there was like a nineteen
eleven pistol that was like coined to Marsok. They like
(19:40):
get the nineteen eleven I think, and then all of
a sudden, Airsoft it was like you got to have
a Marsok load out. It was like you're the Kobe Bryants,
You're the Michael Jordans of that day. And everybody's like, okay,
I need black knee pads with tricolor and like, you know,
cause it wasn't quite you know, we're still dealing with
old surplus stuff. So our software mechanics, gloves from you
(20:02):
know the local checker auto or something like that, by
personal purchase stuff. Oh, like the skate knee pads for
like skateboarding, right right, Like the protect helmets.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, yeah, we had at different times we wore like
all of those things, but we had. What was interesting
was that with the pistol, particularly with some Marine Corps
had held on to the nineteen eleven for you know,
long after everybody had gone to the nine mil. And
you know, it took like all of the pistols that
(20:32):
the Marine Corps could put together and our armors, our
match armors to kind of rebuild them and try to
get them any shape. And you know, we were just
convinced that, you know, you needed a man size round
to stop people. So maa, we we carried you know,
the the nineteen eleven. Were super proud of it. But
when when Debt one started, there warn't enough to go around,
(20:54):
and so we went to Kimber and had Kimber build
a gun for us. And I've got one around somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's uh it we are doun for air softers too.
I'm not even a kid. It's like, you know, oh,
do you have the EMYU or the MARSK nineteen eleven
and it has the spade on the grips and whatnot,
and you know, I just want you know, that's it's
flattering for that to happen, right.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Cool, Yeah, I was. I was kind of flattered to
looking up something and the Marine Special Operations re Enactment
Battalion like showed up like MSORB. I was like, what
the what the heck? You know, it kind of made
it now and you know, now we've got people dressing
up and going out and doing things, So that was
(21:38):
that was kind of cool when I saw that. Some
I mean, I'm sure it's grown a lot now, but
this was years ago.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, years ago, and it was very like, you know,
underground and a lot of people might have mistook it
as something other than but none of these people are
trying to like get on a base in that gear.
No one's trying to. They're playing like at the you
know two on two where Kobe Bryant jersey. He's not
going to show up to the basketball court be like,
hey kid, take my jersey and shoes off. Bro, you're
not me what are you doing? No, He's like no, Wow,
(22:05):
you know today's air softer could be tomorrow's you right right,
you know they're out there, they're putting their boots on
the ground already. They've already got the gear. They should
just now. They's got to have a mentality in the
and the and if you're thinking about it, yeah, just
go get it done and give it a shot and
see if it's what is in your toolbox. You just
don't know unless you try. That's all I can say.
(22:25):
All right, yeah, exactly, you know, because who knows.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, I'm sure there there are a lot of very successful,
you know, special operation folks across the services that have
got their start. I mean I got my start running
around in the woods with you know, recreation World War
two or stuff own er Vietnam, you know, surplus stuff,
you know, pretending like I was on a long range
reconnaissance patrol, you.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Know, still wearing it. Look, these are R d L
Vietnam issued. You know how hard it is to find
a pair of six foot five issue Vietnam kit and yeah,
I can imagine that is hard. And when they showed up,
I was like, and they're so comfortable nineteen sixty eight
on the tag?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Wow, Wow?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
How many farts? Could this thing? Tell me about it?
You know? Yeah, I'm sure I've seen some things. One
time we were in the bush. These pants saved my
life I'm sure you did pants. I'm sure you did it.
Oh my gosh. Now, okay, so how old were you
when you enlisted in the Marine Corps? I like to
find that out. Yeah, I was. I was seventeen.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I always just you know, graduated from high school and
I had already signed up and was already ready to go.
I had a date, you know. So it was about
I turned eighteen in boot camp. So I had known
from the time I was little that, you know, that's
what I wanted to do. And so I, you know,
(23:53):
kind of you know, grew up in the era where
you know, everything was about Vietnam, you know, from all
the TV shows and movies and Chuck Norris and Rambo
and and everything, and none of all of that just yeah,
just even the movies that were kind of meant to
be uh like anti war you know or whatever. I
didn't didn't that didn't click, you know, they were just
(24:16):
they were war movies, like The Dirty Dozen, the Dirty Dozen. Yeah, yeah,
absolutely one. I mean I think Rambo was supposed to
have some you know, uh.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
It's never over, It's never over. It's nothing's over. Yeah it.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Full Metal Jacket came out actually shortly after I joined,
but that was, you know, a hugely anti war movie
that didn't register with us. You know, we just we
thought it was the coolest thing ever.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
So you were you went in after that came out.
So was anything like what you went through when you
saw Full Metal Jackets? You say, oh, hey, he hit
hit it on the head with his basic training, or
did you think, ah, you know, now it's that came out.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I saw that after I finished boot camp, so yeah,
and it was pretty quickly after. I mean, I think
within a couple of months. You know, we all were
in infantry school and we went to go see it.
And there are a lot of I mean a lot
of similarities you know in boot camp and the some
of it it seems incredibly mindless. You know, he's getting
yelled at and so you know, he did a really
(25:18):
good job with that. I thought, you know, I really
kind of wish I would have seen it before I went.
I think it would have prepared me a little bit.
Oh really, yeah, I think so. I think I had
the uh fortune. I think, you know, I quickly realized
that you know, the good fortune and at boot camp
(25:41):
was a game, right, I mean, you've got to get
through it. It's serious and there's obviously stuff to learn,
but uh, you know, a guy who can't be mad
at you, you know, because your brand new it this
thing screaming at you in your face. You know, if
you you could either take that to heart or you
could realize that hey man, he's he's doing his thing,
trying to make me better. And so you know, I
can uh, I can dig it right, So I'll uh,
(26:04):
you know, I'll do I'll play the game, I'll uh,
I'll yell loud if he wants me to yell.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I'll run as fast as he wants me to to run.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
And then you know, when I get get through with
this kind of proven you know that I'm I have
what it takes, then I'll be ready to you know, learn,
you know whatever it is that that these guys have
to teach.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Me, right, and they want to see you succeed. They're
there to see you succeed. They're not there to see.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah they don't do it, yeah they uh, I mean
it's varies, I think, you know, but as long as
you're somebody that's that's putting out doing a good job, yeah,
they they want you to to be successful. I'm sure
there are people that they they're doing everything in their
power to get to get out.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
But uh, and I.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Never I came close, really close, but I never went
back to be a drill instructor.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
I never. You know, it's really something I wanted to do.
That's like a perfect marine right there.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, I mean there's there's absolutely value. And I mean
you're you're making the next generation. It's it's super important.
But it's just really wasn't. It wasn't for me. I'm
not much of a screamer, you know.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, and you'd have to, you'd have to. It's constant.
But I mean, you know, the running and just the
complete rigorous torture on your body. You know, to be
a drill instructor has got to be just in its
own just like your reek, just like going through Marsk
and everything he did. You guys have to just consistently
be badass. You can't catch it fault. It takes.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
It takes its toll, you know, but you can. All
you can do is keep after it, right, you know.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Keep well. You got lucky because you were able to
cross into it, right. So we have a lot of
veterans that I don't know, maybe there's like just like
a stigma out there, like how do I transition from
military civilian life? You know, I don't know if it's
something that is more said than is actual. You know,
I have been reached out by people through media and like, hey,
how do you get into podcasting? You know, I'm interested
(27:59):
in that, or how do I write a book? What's
your take on the transition from I mean, you went
into the same kind of gig, right.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So I always tell and I do a lot of coaching,
you know, like performance coaching, personal coaching, and talk with
a lot of guys who are getting out and it's
I mean, it's a pretty real thing. You know, if
you've spent your life in the military now getting out
at you know, you're kind of the big cock on
the walk. You know, you're you know, a master and
(28:28):
master guns or whatever your rank is, and now you're
getting ready to go into an absolutely unknown world, you know,
whether that's back to school, which I you know I did,
is like a forty year you know, forty some year
old man kind of scared to death, you know, going
to school with college kids right to you know, going
out into a real that we call it the real world.
But you know, a job market and trying to get
(28:49):
a job, and there's just it's it's challenging. I skipped
a lot of that because I never really left. I'm
starting to think about, you know, actually going into the
real world one of these one of these days, I
just got to figure out what I'm gonna do when
I grow up, what I grow up?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yes, I love it. Uh.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
The The thing I think for you know, veterans to
realize people that are getting out is that, I mean,
you bring a lot to the table. You know, you've
there's so much that you've seen and done that that
will be value added, you know, any sort of organization.
I but I generally tell people that's don't rush into anything,
you know, don't It's a little bit different than it
(29:28):
was on our parents' time, you know, you kind of
My dad was in the Navy for a couple of
years during Vietnam.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Got out.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
You know, you work at a job until you die, basically,
you know, that's that's not the way the world works anymore.
I mean, people, you know, take a job, you know,
until you find something else. You know, they kind of
work to live, not live to work, hopefully, and I
think that's a good way of looking at it. But
there's absolutely a lot of opportunities and I think it's
not something that veterans immediately think of, but uh, you
(29:59):
know in writing and creative spaces, right, even if it's
not something that you make your living at because I'm
I'm not gonna, I don't have all this because of
the book, right, It's that book's not gonna It might
put a couple of meals on the table, but it's
it's not going to allow me to retire. But I
think there's a huge benefit and kind of veterans getting
out and exploring those things.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah, one hundred percent, you know, and maybe taking advantage
of the benefits that they have after they get out
of like their VA home loan or like using you
know the other benefits that are if they filed up
for their GI bill in basic or whatnot, how to
take it out and I forgot about it. Hey, go
take advantage of your school. Just get a c Okay,
it's make sure you get ces.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Yeah, it's changed so that you don't even have to
do that. Everybody is blanketed the GI bill is really
that's the best. So I did when I was in
boot camp, we had to sign up, and we were
you know, deducted one hundred dollars a month for a year.
And along the way, the uh they you know, after
(31:02):
post nine eleven, they did away with that, and so
I was I was able to and I was not
a I mean I was on the first thing smoking
a book camp, right I had. I was not a student.
I didn't really like Uh, I didn't like school. But
you know, as I went through the Marine Corps, I
realized that, you know, education is is super valuable. One
thing I've always loved to read. All right, So like
(31:23):
you guys book club, I think is a is an
absolutely great thing. But you know, before I retired, I
was able to finish a bachelor's degree online, all online
and homeland security. So my intent was to get out
and become a security consultant. That didn't didn't pan out,
and but I was able to use the GI bill
to I went back to college. Like I said, I
(31:45):
got a master's in in literature or liberal arts focus
in literature. And that really kind of got me, you know,
got me thinking that, hey, you know, I really like writing. Uh,
I should give this a whirl. So I went back
got another master of fine Arts and and creative writing
from the University of North Carol Carolina here in Wilmington.
(32:05):
And that's you know, that just opened all these doors.
You know, you spend time around writers, you get opportunities
for write. So I'm you know, I can't talk highly
enough about you know, educating yourself. You know, if you're
a veteran or even if you're you know, a young,
younger person that wants to join the military.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I mean, the.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Smarter you are, the more value added.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
You're going to be.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
So you know, you just even if it's doing nothing
more than just reading books, but you know, getting getting
college in.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
And now for.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
The folks that you have the GI bill, they can
they have the opportunity to pass it on to their
kids so their kids can go to school if they
don't use it. And it's it's a pretty phenomenal benefit.
I mean, while I was going you you also get
a living stipend, so you get your college paid for.
You get this eight hundred nine hundred bucks a month
just to live on. So potentially it's I mean, it
(32:54):
would not be challenging for somebody getting out after four
years to say, hey, I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Not going to man I'm going to go to school benefits. Yeah,
such a good benefit. It's huge, it's huge, you know,
I'm so many people don't take advantage you have it nice. Yeah,
it's phenomenal. My eighteen year old daughters like that, I
want to go to Arizona State and I'm like, but
we live in Utah. Yeah, out of state. Yeah, the
double surprise. Yeah, I'm like, but we live here. We
(33:19):
got the University of Utah.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
I'm like, she's like, but Arizona State, that's got the sun.
And I'm like, look, whatever you need. But again, you know,
if she wanted to join like the Navy or the
whatever branch she decided on, and she put in four years,
her school would be you know, yeah, you know, and
that's a huge deal. Yeah, it would be paid for.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
I I you know, I was just reading something that
you know, there's the percentage, well one, the percentage of kids,
you know, high school kids today that are qualified physically
to join the military is like just tanking, all right, Yeah,
I mean there's just not that many that could pass.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
He's changed, right.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
But then there's also like a like fifty percent of
Americans like would not encourage their children to serve in
the military, and I just read this morning.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
There's in fact, I read it on software.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
I think there's you know, like thirty five percent of
people in the military wouldn't recommend anybody to join the military.
So there's a lot of you know, there's a lot
of negativity about a lot of things. But I mean
there's still some insanely amazing benefits you know, if you
join whatever whatever branch kind of strikes your fancy, you know,
and quite likely, like we said, there there are thousands
(34:30):
of different jobs across the services. So you know, if
you want to be a photographer, you know, we've got
you know, learn learn how to do it. You know
you want to be uh.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I mean there's there's even like probably people who learn
sound and engineering in the military. There's probably like you know,
there's production.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
In the militarily, within the public affairs realm, there are
people that I mean, there's you know, podcasts, you know
that you know you might have the opportunity to do that.
If not, you know, the you've got you know, the
GI Bill to go to school for free and get
get paid while you do it. So it's I still think,
I mean, I was not I didn't grow up. I
grew up in a relatively modest uh you know household.
(35:11):
John Day was not going to college. They were pinning
all their hopes on my brother, uh skateboarding.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I think he was a skateboard or something or what. No.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
No, I lived up in the mountains of West Virginia,
so we didn't even really have skateboards, right. Uh there
was no sidewalks. We you know, mostly dirt roads and
it's a little rough to it wasn't quite that that
far out. But uh, now I never did get into
get into skateboarding. But yeah, they just there weren't high
(35:39):
hopes being held out for me, so they were pinning.
You know, my smarter brother was I think the first
and our our extended family to go to college. Guess
just wasn't something that people did, right. You got out
of school, you went to work, or you went to
the military.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
But h and I still think it's a great I mean,
it certainly served me very well.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
For for over twenty years.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I had a blast almost not every day but most
most every day. And just I mean I got to
you know, I tell people like, I got to blow
stuff up, I got to jump out of airplanes at
you know, five miles in the.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Sky at nighttime. I got to scuba dive, you know,
shoot literally ride and tracked vehicles with team tracks on them,
and like like you're wearing bump helmets and all sorts
of gear. I love the gear. And let me ask
you something about jumping out of a out of an airplane.
Did you ever have like a close call on that.
You ever have something where it was like this is
my training kicked in and I barely pulled out the
(36:35):
only time, I don't know how close it was.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Like so with the free fall parachute, so you have
the opportunity to with with your static line parachute, you
have a reserve, but with a free fall parachute, you
can cut away, cut away your primary parachute, then release
your reserve. And we were doing a parachute. I know
I never had to do that, but we were doing
(36:59):
a jump and it's one of our it's rare that
you get to jump from thirty thousand feet that's the
amount of airspace that's required. The there's just a lot
of complexities that go into that. But we were up
in the desert. We were doing a jump nighttime, thirty
thousand foot and in order to do that, you've got
(37:19):
to have an oxygen mask on, and see you're breathing oxygen.
I jumped out and you count, I think to six,
all right, to just kind of let yourself get stable,
and then you pull. And you know, with thirty thousand feet,
it's probably like one hundred and sixty below zero with
windshill and.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Everything that's going on.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
So you've got big, big honking sued on big gloves,
and with my big glove I had, when I pulled
my ripcord, I also pulled the oxygen hose out, and
I didn't realize it until I started getting you know,
the whole world started kind of turning black, and so
I realized that, hey, there's you know, I'm trying to
figure it out, and there was nothing that I could do,
(37:59):
like I'm going to pass out. But I had a
parachute open, so that's.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
A good thing.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
So I come on the radio and I try to
like just let everybody know because everybody has their parachutes open,
and we're going this way and with from that height,
we were planning to land about forty miles from where
we jumped out. Wow, so we're just like screaming across
the desert. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm about to pass
out here. I'll figure it out. No, but that didn't
(38:26):
come over. It was probably more of like a muffled
scream or whatever. But what I tried, I tried to
dump as much called dumping air, so you pull a
toggle down and that makes you fall faster. But there's
not enough oxygen to sustain consciousness until about twelve thousand feet.
So from thirty thousand feet down to twelve thousand feet
(38:47):
I was. I was out, and then suddenly you wake up,
and it's kind of like waking up from a dream,
but you realize that, hey, I'm screaming at like sixty
miles an hour, you know, through the through the middle
of the night sky.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
And from from where I was, I was able to
look back and see the lights of the airfield that
we had taken off from, so I was able to
turn and I just headed back to that and landed.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Didn't quite make it, but landed.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Luckily. They still had payphones back then, and so I
had some change, so I went and threw some money
in the payphone, called the base and they the first
time they hung up on me. They're like, hey, we're
having an emergency, and.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
They hung up.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Second yeah, the second time, I'm like, hey, man, I'm
the emergency and they're like, so.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Uh, what's the code word? I'm the emergency?
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, I guess so. But they're like, all right, we'll
just hang out. We'll come and get you later. So
I went down walked down the street to a bar. Uh,
had a beer and uh usually.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Tom Cruise, did you see this last movie of his
where he is trying to go like mock.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yes, yeah, similarly yeah, yeah, pretty similar thing to that,
Get cut a cup of coffee.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
You're like just totally normal. I'll looking at you like.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Uh, I love that You're badass, bro.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, that was just that was just close. Uh. I
think that was the closest call that I've had.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Oh that was Top Gun, the movie's Top Gun. I
was like, wait, what movie is that?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
That?
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Top Tom Cruise is showing that he's yeah, the new
top Gun. Yeah, and uh he walks into his full
gear into the restaurant and there was a staring at him.
They must have took that from you, bro. Maybe Yeah,
I don't know who. Who's there to see some residual
from there. Let's put it a call to CIA real
quick here. Yeah, I should get some royalties or something made.
(40:39):
I'll tell you what. Wow, Wow, you're the real version.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, a little bit different. I mean, I I it
was all my fault. I shouldn't have you know, pulled
out your road.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yeah, yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
The mistake I made there. But it, like I said,
with big gloves on, it's it's it's not impossible to do.
So they've they've sent changed the way that the system
is set up to make that a little more difficult.
I'm not the first guy who's done it, who's popped
that off, and the hopefully yeah, hopefully the last.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
That's the last thing you need to deal with when
you're flying so high altitude low opening halo or were
you high altitude high?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Oh yeah yeah, high altitude high opening. So we jumped already,
huh we're yeah, we were open and luckily, you know,
if if I had not had a parachute open, then
then that would have been a much different story. But so,
I mean, I had a good parachute. It was just
a matter of passing out and coming to when the
air came back.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Have you ever done that into the water, Like have
you ever hayhoed into water? And like, uh, you know,
I don't know, maybe I'm thinking Navy seals Charlie Sheen
and those guys like not into a dive.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
We've jumped into the water, which is which is cool.
The thing that's always kind of scary about that is that,
you know, a parachute falls on top of you, you know,
in the in the middle of the ocean, and it's
just there's a whole lot of lines running from that.
So that's whenever we do those, we'll do some you
know practices in the swimming pool, you know, and just
(42:08):
there's a lot of potential for, you know, for things
to go go wrong.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
So, you know, my dad told me a story one
time with guys that were like in Pensacola, Florida, I
think is what he said. Somewhere in Florida, and they
were doing some high altitude, low opening jumps whatnot. Maybe
it was just regular shoots, but they would release over
the water out of their shoot and one guy just
was like one hundred feet up I'm not sure how
(42:33):
far out, and like kind of hurt him. But you know,
these guys are always trying to pop a little higher
than the other to land in the water.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Is that something that Yeah, So when you are jumping
into the water, you start as you know, as you
are stable and you're you're coming down, you know, you
start preparing to get out of your parachute, so you'll
take off the the chest strap and you know kind
of set yourself in the into the harness and kind
of you're ready to go, so that as soon as
(43:03):
you hit the water, and it's it's very difficult to judge,
you know, when you're when you're above the water. So
that's that's the reason that they they don't want you
popping out too early. But as soon as your feet
hit the water, you're really being held on by your
leg straps, so that's the last thing you pop and
hopefully arch out of it, and the wind generally will
(43:25):
carry the parachute away from you because you land into
the wind. So so it's, uh, it's in a perfect world.
It's it's a lot of fun. There's just always always
the potential in the world. Who is seldom perfect.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
You know. Yeah, and then you're definitely and just yeah,
you're like, oh wait, am I one hundred feet or
forty five feet? Yeah, you know, it's like a little far,
a little far. Yeah that was. That was in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, yeah, things were I'm sure a little uh, I was.
I was in the Marine Corps well late eighties, but
you know, I didn't start doing this stuff until and
then then, So I think, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
So you already get fifty? Are you in your five o's?
I am, Yeah, I'm fifty four. Fifty four.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, it seems really old, right, I don't feel it, so.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
No, you don't seem it. Yeah, I don't get that
from you. I'm forty six. And so I just was like,
you know, you're a seventies child, right.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, I was born in sixty nine, right, sixty nine. Yeah,
I know that Vietnam was raging.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, holy cow, seventy seven here, Yeah, okay, so that
makes total sense. No, I think you're great. I think
you're I'm so happy that you are on the show,
and I hope my listeners have been getting just awesome
stories and listening to your vibe. Dude, you're a badass
bro right on. I know that Tough, Rugged Bastards takes
a lot more than just writing the thoughts of that
(44:48):
book out onto page. I know there was probably things
in there that were real serious that just you know,
are hard to deal with, and you put it on paper.
Do you have anything that you want to talk about
that was just like kind of tough that you put
in there.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So the whole book started. The idea for it really,
at least at a like a kernel of the idea
started when I went back to college or went to college, right,
and uh, we had to write an essay of something
that happened to us, and I was it was it
was luckily I got it out of the way first.
(45:22):
But it was the first essay I wrote that really
started the you know, became the seed for the book
talks about Uh. I think of him as a kid,
but he was he was an adult. But he was
a guy that I shot in uh that Joff Iraq
with a sniper rifle, and you know, looking at him,
I you know, I especially you know obviously it's like
(45:45):
Matthew McConaughey, right, the older and I keep getting older,
but he stays the same age. Uh So, so I,
you know, I wrote this essay called death Letter, and
it was kind of it was like written to him,
and that was really you know, and I wrote that
the professors were like, you know, dug it. You know,
They're like, man, this is really honest, and and I
(46:09):
was like, you know what I mean, maybe there is something.
Maybe I've got something to say, and I've got the
ability to say it in a way that you know,
people would like to listen to. So I took that,
you know, I submitted it to I think I wound
up submitting it to I was a one hundred percent
sure when I sent it off that you know, they
were going to like write me a big check and
publish it and something. And first place didn't, the second place.
(46:33):
Finally we got to like the twentieth, like two years
of submitting and I finally got it, got it published.
And that was the first thing like that that I'd
had published. So but you know, as soon as it does,
you know, you go from being down and dumps to
being on cloud nine to see in your.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Name and things that you wrote, you know, in pages.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So that kind of sat with me, and it took
a little while, and I had some fortunate just meeting
people that encouraged me to write, and you know, the
the fact that I was, you know, one of the
guys in this very small unit was I felt like
a story that should be told. So it's not it's
not a history, you know so much. I mean, it's
(47:13):
you know, called a memoir. You know, it's I mean,
it's my story, my recollections. I mean, some of it,
I think, uh, I mean, there's obviously a lot of
an interesting time in history for anybody.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
There's an interesting time, and.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Certainly a Marine Corps history, special operations history, but there's
also just a you know, it's just from my perspective,
you know, Hey, here's how I felt when this was happening.
So some of it was tough to write, and you
know that one in particular. But since then, you know,
I've had the opportunity with with several different groups, the
Lethal Mince Journal, the Dead Reckoning Collective, and these different
(47:48):
veterans writing groups. You know, had the opportunity to work
with with veterans and writing, you know, get their stories
on paper. And I think it's hugely valuable. You know,
if if nothing else, it never sees a light of day,
if nobody ever reads it, you know, taking you kind
of get it out of your head and and process
it all right, And I think it's you know, I
(48:08):
think if there's any sort of you know, whether it's
a traumatic thing. I think there's absolute value in that,
right and putting on paper and it processes. It doesn't
have to live in your head anymore. It can live,
you know, on a piece of paper that's shoved in
the desk or burned or whatever. But I mean there's
also just the simple fact that you know, whether they're
you know, Savilians of any sort, but particularly people who
(48:31):
were interested in the military, people who you know, especially
people interested in wargames and anything like that. You know,
it's just the idea that hey, I can you know,
read you know what this what was going through this
guy's head. And my goal was to you know, I
grew up reading Vietnam books. You know, there's just tons
of them, right, and then the GAT books you know
(48:53):
that I've read a lot of them are very much
just kind of, Hey, I'm going to write an action
packed book and I'm gonna h you know, I call
it for I'm certainly not poking, you know, throwing rocks
at anybody. But a lot of them aren't necessarily you know,
they don't go into the fact that, hey, I was
pretty fucking scared here, you know, you know, there's some
(49:14):
honesty that that I was hoping, you know, as a
guy with a Master of Fine Arts degree in writing,
that I could bring a little bit of not only
some craft to it, you know, look at different ways
of telling stories and and hopefully keeping people engage while
also being you know, true to the you know, everything
that happened, and uh, you know, honorable to the guys
that served with me. So but the goal I went
(49:36):
into it with was, you know, I want to write uh.
I mean, there's plenty of books for people in the
military about being in the military. You know, I want
to write a book that that they'll enjoy and get
a kick out of. But uh, you know that somebody
who's a civilian could pick up and try to get
a little bit of understanding, you know, what goes on
and through in the heads and hearts and minds of
(49:56):
especially special operations. I think it's quite often misunderstood, you know,
if he people think that we're just we're all a bunch.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Of uh uh. I used to read these alert linebackers, right,
Oh yeah, my dad would have these like books. You know,
they're just books that were written a long range of
conisance patrol books and these lurks. Oh yeah, and stories
of lurps in Vietnam. Right, yeah, that was my bathroom material. Bro.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Those are Uh, there's one you may have. He may
have had Force ricon diary.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's I had that. That one.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
There was two sineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy. The
guy that wrote that was the first Force Recon guy
that Uh. I actually he wrote me a blurb. I
just had the opportunity to like talk, you know, a
couple hours on the phone with him. You know, I
reached out to him kind of cold and like, hey,
I was in you know, the first Force Recon and
here's you know, my my book.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Can I send you the manuscript? And uh?
Speaker 1 (50:48):
And that was that was so cool. So, you know,
if nothing else, you know, I've got to meet some legends. Yes,
another one that uh kind of through the book, John
Striker Meyer, who is one of the Macvie song guys.
He's written a bunch of books. You know, a great
guy you know through the through this, you know, had
the opportunity to meet him and become friends with him.
(51:10):
So I've got like these legends you know that in
some small way kind of emulating you know.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
What does that tell you about yourself?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
John?
Speaker 3 (51:18):
You have a legend on the left side and a
legend on the right side. What are you in the
middle there? I'm just a lucky son of a bitch.
That's exactly right. And it's a it's an honor to
talk to you, bro, And thanks for just being open
with me and having just a casual conversation. We really
have never met each other. This is something that I
(51:38):
want my listeners to hear that you can still have
normal conversations with people no matter where they come from
on the waiver side, and at the end of the day,
we all believe the same red blood. That's it. Hey,
you guy, And so if you want to join the
Marine Corps, I'm down for you to do that. If
you want to join any of the military branches, give
it a shot. I go talk to someone at a
career center, ask him about the GI bill, ask them
(52:00):
what benefits are available. Get that out of them. Ask
them if they can work for you versus you work
for them. At the career center, it's okay, but once
you enlist, you work for them exactly. Now, with that said,
I have had about an hour of time with our
guest John today. It's been a pleasure to have someone
from the United States Marine Corps on the show. I
(52:22):
love the Marines. I think Chesty is my lord and
savior and I have embraced him. I went out to
Camp Pendleton and got to do war games at the
Kilo two Mount facility. Wow, which yeah, which was legit.
And it was nighttime and the fog was rolling in
from ocean side and we had thermals. Oh being wargames. Yeah, yeah,
(52:42):
So people are hanging out of like the makeshift mosques
and all the different positions, like where's the fog coming from?
We're like what, you just see him through the fog?
Nothing like thermals through the fog. Okay, all the night
vision was useless. Oh but that thermal man. So again,
I Chesty out there and I just want to say
(53:03):
thanks again, dude, You've been really a pleasure. And to
my listener. Go check out our book club. It's soft
Rep dot com Forward Slash book Club. Go check out
Brandon Webb's Instagram page. Hit him up and tell them
that I said to say hi on his Instagram page.
Also veteran and an author who's written many novels. You
know he puts it on paper. And again to my listener,
the number one thing I hear from my authors and
(53:24):
other people who I've interviewed, and I've interviewed a hundred
of them is put it on paper. You're not writing
anything when you're thinking about it. You're writing when you
start to actually put it on paper. So if you
can just take your thoughts and put it out there,
and that's what I'm going to say. John did in
his essay class. It took him a second. He's like,
how do I get an a What am I going
to do to draw these guys into my essay? Well,
(53:47):
I'm going to tell them about how I took someone
out in najaff as a sniper in the Marine Corps.
And they're going to sit there and say, shit, you
should submit this. Yeah, and he submitted it, and he
took a lot of and as an actor and someone
who auditions all the time, you gotta be okay with that.
You gotta have thick skin. You just got to believe
in what you want to believe in. You got to
(54:07):
be passionate about it and say you can't tell me
no because I believe in it and you don't understand it.
You just move on to the next I don't know
if that's my coaching and if John agrees, that's cool. Yeah,
but just put it on paper. There you go.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, I absolutely agree.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
Okay, well on behalf of John and Soft Breath and
you the listener and the viewer. I say, all right,
the rat say of peace.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
You've been listening to self rep Radia
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.