The Man Who Infiltrated the Crips: Tegan Broadwater’s Unbelievable True Story

Teagan Broadwater is a former law-enforcement officer, author, entrepreneur, and multi-disciplinary creator whose work spans undercover operations, music, podcasting, and philanthropy. He served as an undercover officer with the Fort Worth Police Department, where his assignments included multiple narcotics units, the gang unit, and an FBI Gang & Violent Crimes Task Force. During his career, he led a deep undercover operation in a six-street neighborhood nicknamed “The Fishbowl,” where he posed as a high-end cocaine trafficker to infiltrate a violent gang. That work resulted in dozens of arrests, major seizures, and recognition by the U.S. Attorney’s Office and his department. After leaving the police department, Broadwater founded a security and investigations firm, authored the memoir Life in the Fish Bowl, and launched creative ventures focused on community healing, systemic justice, and empowerment. Today, he continues to contribute through public speaking, podcasting, and music, while supporting charitable initiatives for youth, veterans, and underserved communities.

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Episode Transcript

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out now, without further ado, I have former f b

(02:00):
I undercover crips. What's up going in hard Teagan Broadwater
on the show. Welcome to the show, Teagan. Yes, oh bro,
you're flashing that. Oh yeah, you learned it. You learned
the sign. Oh yeah, I didn't put this on. It's red,
it's not blue case. So crips are blue. Blood's are red. Right,

(02:20):
Let's just be clear.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
That's true. That's true.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
But Tigan, something that we all have inside of us
is red at the end of the day, is right,
That's true. Right, No matter if you saw a crypt
shot or a blood shot, they probably all had red blood.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
I'm sure he insulted somebody somehow saying that. But you're
exactly right.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Exactly yes, And I'm trying to get at that. You
know those are children. These are people's kids. These are
brothers and sisters that are pulled into this lifestyle that
you had to infiltrate yourself. And let me just let
me just give a little bio real quick here. I
just want to say, you know, gang wars are you know,
they're just out there and they're active, and people are

(03:00):
dying over nothing over a color, over a bandana, and
to them, it's so serious that it's life or death
if you're wearing a color and you could be just
walking down the street somewhere on the wrong block, wearing
the wrong thing and you just get smoked for it.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
That's still here, It's.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Still going on, right, That's not a joke.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
And that's why I preferenced it like these are sons
and daughters and fathers and mothers who are in these
things that sometimes get pulled in without even maybe being
wont to now real quick about Tigan his little bio.
Tigan is a creative CEO, a musician, an entrepreneur, a philanthropist,
and an author of Life in the fish Bowl, the
harrowing true story of one cop who took down fifty

(03:39):
one of the nation's most notorious crips and his cultural
awakening amidst a poor, gang infested neighborhood. In two thousand
and eight, after a twelve year career as a professional
musician and a successful fifteen year career in law enforcement,
he launched Tactical Systems Network, LLC, which is a high
end security protection, consulting and investigation firm. Tigan's unique background

(03:59):
in business, music, and rare deep undercover work ignited a
passion for making a positive impact. This passion has taken
shape in a creative company he founded to promote projects
that spark productive conversations between different independent thinkers to create
understanding and appreciation even in disagreement. Most days, Teagan runs
the business, records thought provoking music works out, writes and

(04:22):
shares fine whiskey with his sons or exclusive bros. But
he especially enjoys spending invaluable time with his best friend
and wife of twenty five plus years, Holly, simply doing
whatever she wants.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So welcome again to the show, Teagan.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
And it's nice that you have a support group with
your wife Holly in your back.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
And yes, I wish she was at once. Oh I
bet you. I would like to ask her well First
of all, you guys were married when you went undercover.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
We were, Yes.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
So my question to her, maybe she can answer it
to you later, is you know, what was that like
for her to have to watch her husband go and
do this and sometimes not let her know nothing about it?
And she knew something was going on in your head,
you know, I guess, I guess. Props to her for
being so strong and supportive for a sounding board for you.
So I want to check in on you know, you know,

(05:10):
shout out to the wife there for you.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Amen. Yeah, she was.

Speaker 5 (05:14):
I mean, she was actually a key player in keeping
my focus you know, when I started going off the
rails a little bit.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
So, yeah, she's been wonderful.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
And rails is not referring to cocaine. We're not talking
about a rail of cocaine here. Okay, he's not going
off those rails. Although I've been studying about how to
approach a conversation about cocaine. Okay, So I learned that.
So kilo is two point three pounds. Okay, So, uh,
just tell me you were a young man wanted to

(05:45):
become a cop?

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Is that how it started in your life?

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Shoot?

Speaker 5 (05:49):
Since the fourth grade, I was an inspiring musician and
then became a professional musician after.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
Going to music school studying music.

Speaker 5 (05:56):
So actually that's what I did until my late twos,
traveling on the road and stuffing myself and my brothers
in the eighty seven suburban and sharing beds and days ends,
traveling around and playing music and doing the thing.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
But what what music are you playing here?

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Like, tell me the style of genre that you enjoy.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
So this was and still is something I quite enjoy.

Speaker 5 (06:22):
It's kind of a mixture, a perfect blend of like
rock and soul, I would say, you know, rope groove
oriented kind of stuff. It was a multicultural band, and
most of the bands that I played in were multicultural,
so a lot of the premise behind the tunes and
stuff were kind of unifying, which is still a lot

(06:44):
of what I stand for. So and it also kind
of paved the way more than anything, into undercover work,
because you know, working around creatives and people from different
cultures and going into the most dangerous areas of town
just to have band rehearsal, and you know, being ignorant
to the fact that you're in a dangerous area was
part of the beautiful thing that I experienced.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Young as young. What is it guitar? Are you rocking
out on the guitar? Is that what you're doing? Trombone
or what?

Speaker 5 (07:09):
Right now? Now?

Speaker 4 (07:10):
I kind of play everything.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
I wouldn't consider myself a master instrumentalist at the extra things.
But I started off as a drummer and a vocalist,
you know, preparing for music school. I you know, took
piano lessons because everybody has to play piano in music school,
and started honing some of that, played drums and sang,
and then you know, as I got back into the
industry late in life, I were frustrated with the way

(07:33):
the musicians do business, which is on their own timeline.
It's so much like the doper time and gangster time.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (07:41):
But you know, we'd have a session and then everyone's
showing up and we're knocking out all our parts. We're
trying to do a you know, commercial music session or
something like this, and this is just you know, six
seven years ago. When I got back into it, and
the vocalist would show up three hours late, I'd be like, dude,
I'm out of here. I'm not sticking around for this.
So I thought, that's what inspired me to start picking
up an energyment. That's when I picked up guitar.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
You know.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
So now a lot of the teams that I put
out are all myself, myself for what it's worth. At least,
you know, if it takes me fifty times longer to
get a guitar, take that works at least some on time.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah exactly, it's on your time, Yeah exactly. You're like, hey, man,
three hours.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
No. I've been in studios with guys.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
I've been behind the board while they're recording and people
are like rushing the drummer. It's like, yo, you don't
rush the drummer. Bro, you don't like how he's playing,
you can quit behind the board. This is a true story.
We're at the OZMA studios here in Provo, Utah, and
my buddy at sixteen, he was just like throwing down
the drums right And I was in the studio while
he was practice doing that. And the two of the dudes,

(08:42):
they're like older Hessian dudes. They're like, bro, we got dates.
It's like ten o'clock at night. But the guy that
owned the studio is like, you don't rush talent like this.
You hear me, You just don't rush it. And they're like, bro,
and he's like, you got to make a decision right now.
You either go with them the girls, or you stay
here and you record this dude for his And I'm
just sitting here on the back seat just like kind

(09:03):
of watching these guys fight while Dan is sitting in
the studio getting ready to like lay down another track,
and they're arguing about trying to get out of there. Well,
long story is, he said, okay, fine, they left. He
said you're fired. He pointed it around at me. You
as all what He's like, sit right here. I was
like okay, and he's like when I look at you,
you hit this button and that button and that's the
record button. You got it, that's your job. And I

(09:25):
was like, all right, So I got to record my
homie laying down the tracks for his band. At sixteen,
he's now a professional drummer in a large rock band
that is traveling or just got done with Australia.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Love it, so love it. So that.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Oh bro, it's crazy, you know, to see just to
know what you're talking about, right, It's like you said,
their time. It's like, well, you're literally in the middle
of this dude sweating, dripping sweat on a drum set
and you guys want to jet and he's still like
for a year and a good right right right, which
you lay down the track. Yeah, it's crazy and so

(10:01):
that's cool, bro. I love rock and roll, obviously there
it is. Okay, there's a connection between you and me.
I I do love rock and roll.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
And what do you like?

Speaker 3 (10:11):
I listened to well the Used, uh nine Schnails, Uh,
you know, Pink Floyd. Uh, you know, just to kind
of give you. I like Taylor Swift a lot. I
like her old stuff, her new stuff, everything in between.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
I'm currently rocking out to like, you know, Refused. If
you guys know who Refused is. They're a little bit
of a heavier, you know, got a message kind of
song and uh but yeah, just Willie Nelson.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Mama's don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
You know, it's just a little bit of oh yeah,
hit the button, that's right highway man, you know, just
that kind of Tom Petty right, just that genre. Mark
Anthony's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Pit Bull. I like me some pit bull. You know, Hey,
the place, but that's beautiful.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, yeah, those are just off the top of my head.
Joan Jet you know, seeing her a bunch of times.
Just saw Billy Idle. I just saw Billy Idle. I
just saw Billy Idol sing all of his songs.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Amazing.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
It's beautiful. He's still out there doing it right, I.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Mean, seventy five years old, and he covered the whole
stage and he took his shirt off.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Any I don't know if it's real or not, but
he had ABS. Dude. I was like, is that just
he opens up his jacket and he's just like, eh,
you know, white wedding, And I'm like, you got abs.
That's all I can think about is you're seventy something
with abs. Bro.

Speaker 5 (11:27):
Yeah, so you and I just use CGI for that
here in the next year or so.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
But otherwise, I've got to appreciate the humanity.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
At least for now exactly.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
I mean, we could probably talk music all day, like
create its clear water, you know, love me some run
through the Jungle, you know it all.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
I drive a jeep, a big red jeep with a
top off, and so I have a good system, and
so that's what we're rocking out is that kind of music.
And so you know, rock and roll has always been
something in my life and music just helps to soothe
my soul. And those are like the bands that I
listen to. What kind of music are you listening to?
To give my audience a little bit to your mindset, man.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
It's kind of tough for me without having to go back.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
There are some you know, some newer cats that doing
this crazy stuff like Ando San and stuff like that.
They're playing some crazy guitar stuff. But I I just
had one of my dream interviews a couple of days
ago with Doug Pannick kings X, and you know, such
an innovator and sweet dude.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
It's just great to have guys like that in our world.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
And one of my old bandmates, similar to you. One
of my old bandmates is placed for the Who and
you know, picks up you know, other gigs around here
in LA and it's uber successful. And he's also one
of the sweetest people I've ever known. We've been friends
for twenty thirty five song years now, sure, and you know,

(12:47):
it's just I love listening to music, but it's also
great to hear stories behind those. Like you said, you
have bands that you're listening to that have a cool message.
I think as little as I listened to lyrics, I
think once I find out the backstory behind an actual person,
it really helps me to appreciate the music.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Agreed, Agreed, and a friend of mine Bert McCracken. He's
the lead singer of the Used, Good Friends of Mine,
Great Friends of Mine. He has a lot of messages
in his songs too that not everybody has to agree with,
but he has something put into his music. He writes
his music. It comes from his heart, you know. And
when I think he's the only guy that can ever
sing like he sings, he's just got such a unique

(13:28):
way about doing it.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Those guys, Yeah, they're great. You know.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
I love a good message. And let me ask you
something while you're going under cover. Okay, what kind of
music are you introduced to that you're having to always
listen to?

Speaker 2 (13:44):
I mean, you know, tell me, you know.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
So that's a great question. I don't get asked very often, so,
but it did play a key role. Imagine there's coming
out of being a musician. I rely on music for
emotional charge, and I'm you know, we're talking about mid
two thousand and five, six and seven, when I'm running
under cover, so you're talking about whatever the rap game

(14:07):
was back then, it was a you know, it wasn't
anything innovative, but it was closer to the old style
that it is the new style. And between me loving
funk and sols, rock and roll and also playing into
some of the rap stuff I used to crank. This
band called Dirty Worms and they were a big man

(14:28):
out of Austin, Texas, and it was like a combination
of somebody that would play like I don't know who
to compare it to in terms of musically, because it
was hard driving guitars and real grooven drums, and then
they had just a serious rapper.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Over the top. But it's musical.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
You know.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
We got courses, verse, bridges, everything else happening in there.
But it was the closest thing that I could relate
to having being in that scene and amongst all those
kids that were listening to all this rap music, say kids,
because even then I was thirty five pretending to be
twenty five and they were all twenty five.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Right right, So.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Okay, well then, okay, so we've got the music conversation going.
I think my listener, if I was my listener, they're like, well,
rad go back, start, back, start, start, start sooner with
how come he went in undercover? That's what I think
they want to know. So what drove you from going
from musician to law dog to undercover?

Speaker 5 (15:27):
Yeah, obviously I respect the fact that's a one eighty,
and I think so significant occurrences that happened was.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
I had a kid in ninety.

Speaker 5 (15:39):
Five, and I was already growing weary of the music
industry itself. I loved music, and I love writing music
and participating with the group, but you know, traveling on
the road and bowing down a bunch of coke had
club owners in Oklahoma City or wherever your travels sit too,
was just growing tiresome. And then when I had my kid,
I thought, man, I don't want to be so But

(16:02):
at that time I had spent my entire life since
fourth grade aspiring to do just that music. So when
I thought, well, what else am I supposed to do?
Literally the world was my oyster. It wasn't like I
tried to figure out, like, what can I do that's
related to the industry and this and that and the other.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
I just started thinking of all kinds of whack of things.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
And I had a side gig with the band when
I was off the road that I played with and
several cops used to follow us, and they mentioned police
work and said they would, you know, love to make
a recommendation for me and everything else, And so I thought, man.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
That's seems so whack but so cool at the same time.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Right, you call yourself whacked because it's so whack, bro,
you like, be the cop as whack what seems like, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:45):
What a piece love hippie musician whatever, And they're like, man,
be a cop.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
I'm thinking really. But then the more I started thinking
about it, more.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
I thought, man, I'm like really a peoceful person. I
can relate to just about anybody from any walk you know.
Even come up through school, I was friends with all
the jocks and friends with all.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
The heads and musicians whatever.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
I just couldn't get along with people. So I thought,
you know, it's kind of a relational job. And I
the excitement part of me and the ambitious part of
me just said, I definitely want to aspire to work
under cover.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
I just thought I would really do well there.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
So once I got in, I did nothing but put
in paperwork to try to get into the worst side
of town. The highest crime rates and everything else, so
that I could get experience because I'm going in Green
as ever, and learned about the people there, and learned
to understand that there are neighborhoods there that are just
held captive by this crime. It's not that everybody there

(17:40):
is bad guys, it's the bad guys are so overwhelming
to these people that are typically poor that they don't
have a way to out. You know, You're like, hey,
you should move from this neighborhood. This is a terrible neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
Well, they can't afford to just up and move.

Speaker 5 (17:54):
They've been there, their families have been there since the
thirties and forties, and they have now these old houses
and estaff neighborhoods, and these eighteen to thirty year old
kids are out there shooting each other, bringing in prostitutes
and dope and selling guns and ruining.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Life for everybody.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
So at one point the city council and chief of
Police got together and said, look, there's a particular part
of a bad side of town that pops used to.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
Being the Fishbowl.

Speaker 5 (18:22):
And we deemed at the Fishbowl because every time you
went in, there's one way in, one way out.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Little six square block area.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
If you pulled in there, you were absolutely seen and
you better have some business there because it was a
place of business for crypts, and tons of shootings and
lots of death and destruction happened within that side of town.
And so the city council got together and said.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
How do we combat this? Spare no expense.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
So the narc Division starts doing jump outs and you know,
unmarked fans and just kind of trying to pull people
over everybody that moves in and out of there, writing
warrants and kicking doors and trying everything they can.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
It's no avail.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
So there's just nothing happening there. And by that time
I had to brew some experience working undercover just in
the patrol division, which is kind of a whole nother
story and I don't have to get through that, but
I had some experience and managed to on my fourth application.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
To get into narcotics.

Speaker 5 (19:18):
And that was when I had this amazing epiphany of
genius and pitched it to my boss at the time,
who was my sergeant who ultimately facilitated this entire undercoverent operation,
and said, look, I want to go in. I can
pose as a big time dope dealer in order to

(19:39):
get to the gangs, because obviously everybody knows I don't
look too cripp Yeah, I pose as a big time
dope dealer that just had their source fustered by the FEDS.
I'm from South Texas, so I'm kind of not from
the area, but I'm trying to re establish my game.
I go in undercover, work my way through, get the
head of the snake, and we'll eradicate it from the inside.
And then after about five minutes of belly laughing from

(20:02):
my boss, I think he realized that I was serious
and then kind of gave me permission, you know, because
I had a you know, I had a list a
lot having worked in that area. Even more ironically, in uniform,
I had lists of people on my target list that
I knew to be involved in the gang stuff and everything.
So I also went to my wife, speaking to my

(20:24):
wife and said, hey, this is kind of a big deal.
Most people don't do long term undercover deals anymore. They
usually just kind of go in and try to make
a bust, and you know, if you can give up somebody, cool,
but then they just bust them and move on. I said,
this might last two or three months, and I'd really
like you to have my back, and you know, she
gave me permission to do that, and unfortunately for both

(20:46):
of us, it well exceeded three months.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
How long did it go to? What was what was
the what was eighteen months?

Speaker 3 (20:54):
Just about two years undercover as this high profile dealer
trying to root the main person out. And now, if
I read a little bit, that person that you reference
is someone who is not dumb. There's people that are
super smart. They're just disenfranchised growing up and what they

(21:15):
learn is the streets, but they learn them with almost
a doctorate of college aptitude of how to do this.
And they're like, hey, man, if you would have gone
to college, you would have been this, but instead or
whatever it is, if you would have chose any other path,
you would have been just as good, but instead you
were you know, you know, you chose your choice, which

(21:36):
is you know, being the crit Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, very well.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
Put these kids in these poor neighborhoods that grow around
Gangland have a ceiling and they just feel like, you know,
normal corporate jobs are like not even in the cards.
So everything that they consider they get from watching their
cousins or their friends up the street. We're making twelve
hundred bucks a week moving dope or selling guns or

(22:00):
pimpin or whatever, and that's kind of the pinnacle of
success for them. And so that's what you know when
you get a smart one and you don't have a
father figure or any kind of mentor that shifts you
in a direction that shows you do that there's.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
Not a ceiling. It's going to be.

Speaker 5 (22:16):
A hard road, but there's a road. Then they take
the harder one. And you know, in this case, this
guy was a trip from a very early age at
a real estate license, owned car lots and storage facilities
and everything else was you know, and I will put
a footnote because most of us can't completely relate to

(22:38):
this kingpin, but you got to the trade off is, hey,
I'm going to go give twenty years in prison at
some point, but he's also calling about two hundred grand
a week, which is not what normal people pull at
a corporate job. So that trade off I don't think
most of us would take anyone, but not that he
saw it the writing on the wall. But they all

(22:58):
talk pretty candidly about like I know there's going to
be jail time in my life, and that's just kind
of how I live. But I think a lot of
it's because they just feel like they're forced into choosing
the best of two evils, as opposed to realizing there's
a straight or path right.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
And they can even be a nice person and like
just have a really good genesse qua about themselves, like
an oracle. You're like, hey, this guy's great. Why would
I turn him in? You know, look what he provides
everybody bread on the block.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Exactly, it's exactly exactly right.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
And especially when they're good people, it makes it more
difficult even for people like me, because you know, I
learned in short order. You know, look, people from different cultures,
we know that we should have better understanding and everything.
But I think as even a community of people who
are in the middle, I think it's we agree that criminals,

(23:49):
and especially violent criminals, are people that we want to eradicate,
you know, from our communities. But even in this case,
being around violent criminals for this long period of time,
I found so much humanity and commonality. It was pretty remarkable. Now,
a lot of these guys are need be locked away forever,
but an amazingly high number of those guys you know

(24:12):
when you talked about the same thing music and what
music canto?

Speaker 4 (24:15):
What football team do you like?

Speaker 5 (24:17):
Man, We're gonna sit down and play Madden and share
Magnum forty. And I got as much street cred playing
Madden as I did actually move in Aequila.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
I really did.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
I totally believe you one hundred percent. Like what you're
saying resonates. I'm a kid of the nineties, you know,
growing up. I graduated in ninety five, ninety six, So
Madden on the I totally and in two thousand and
two thousand and five six seven.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Dude, it's yeah, that's what's on. It's Madden.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yes, they're just looking at you like okay, well, you know,
And what I've learned is I've had some other folks
on who have gone under cover, and I asked this
one FBI agent, you know, he had to get in.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
He busted this.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Guy named Hassan, who is the FBI's twenty two years
mole to the KGB, and he had to go in
for five years as his like little mentor kid or whatever,
and like trying to learn from this main guy to
figure out who's leaking this intel. Eric O'Neil i just
had him on recently, so he's another you know, undercover guy.

(25:15):
But man, you guys, I said, so in order for
you to have done what you did, you have to
kind of go into the web itself and you know,
try to find the spider's nest. That's kind of like
you have to get into it, you know, playing mad
and drinking a forty with these guys. There's probably blunts
being passed around and everything else being passed around, and
you're all around all that. You have to embed yourself

(25:37):
in a world of crime.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
Yeah, and it was really just you know, relating yourself
to these guys because you know, part of the conundrum
that I faced versus most undercover deals, especially those deep
undercovers like the guy you had on, is that I
lived in the city twenty minutes away. So it was
something where I had to really fight these guys. Not

(25:59):
only look like everywhere I go, I've got the twenty
questions and have to you know, overcome all this inquiry
and establish my street fred, but I also have to
go home and check my six every night too. So
and there wasn't really a day off. You know, a
lot of those guys will travel in and out of
locations and be present for the part of the week

(26:20):
and get to come home. Not talking about that guy,
because obviously some of these cats are extraordinarily talented.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
I'm talking about this experience that I had.

Speaker 5 (26:29):
I really burned myself out because I had seven days
a week where I had to just show my face.
I didn't have enough money to spend all those days,
but the point was in order for me to really
get embedded, I had to endear myself to them and
vice versa. And I feel like that was part of
the oxymoron this whole thing, is that, look, it's a
necessary thing to do. All these guys go down, but

(26:52):
like you said, the guys that go down with the
worst of the worst are also the guys that are
have social redeeming value and I really appreciate as people,
and I hope the best forward they all have to
go with the same.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
Spot, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, I mean at the end of the day, right, yeah,
Like they're just kind of like like I said at
the beginning of the show, you know, Iceconna, to preface
it that we all have red blood inside of us, right,
even a crip. I just want to let that be known,
you know, And and you know, it's just being if
it gets spilt over something, what I feel like is

(27:28):
frivolous over you know, drugs and drug money and racketeering.
You know, it's just a part of that whole domino
effect and being disenfranchised. I'm not sure exactly what state
this took place. I know you mentioned Oklahoma. Is it
still Texas and so, you know predominantly in gain culture,
especially in crypts and bloods, I think of La.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, I don't think Texas was born.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
Yeah, well it's certainly born there, you know, in the.

Speaker 5 (27:58):
Whatever in the seventies Smarly and it grew and we
had some transfers that came over, either transferring across you know,
via their parents where they moved, or through the prison systems.
Once you start populating the prison system, then you grow those.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
Gangs and you grow those gang goals and then they just.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Me And that's classical with MS thirteen. Right, they get here,
they infect our prison systems, and they get shipped back
because they're you know, doing bad stuff here and then
that's already affected. And then you have that going through
the whole thing. And I guess something to point out,
and you know, you can correct me I'm wrong, or
agree or just not like what am I saying. But
you know, I kind of blame the Boy Scouts of
America for the reason why we have so many gang

(28:40):
violences in the areas of Compton and you know, Long
Beach and Englewood and all those places, because you know,
all the young men and yes, I'm going to say
they're young black African American males that wanted to be
in Boy Scouts. Okay, So you have Boy Scouts going
on in the early days of it, but you also

(29:01):
had racism very strong, which said, we don't want anybody
in our Boy Scouts who aren't like us. So the
Boy Scouts said, no, little black Billy can't be in
the Scouts because he's black. Okay, So what do you
have is you have Billy and all of his friends
who can't be inside of a place that could have
helped teach them to procure wood, to you know, set

(29:24):
up a tent tie knots everything that any twelve year
old boy would want to do.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
I don't know if you've seen the meme, but racism
isn't born, okay, It's kind of taught. And so you know,
you have a twelve year old and twelve year old
who want to tie knots and start a fire and
go get some food and you know, bring back their
merit badges.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
But one side of it's not allowed. So what do
they do.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
They go to the local baseball parks and they sit
around on their bikes and they're like, we ain't got
nothing to do because we can't join the Scouts. And
they're like, well, this is our baseball diamond, so anybody
that wants to come to this baseball diamond has to
deal with us. We would have been a pack, a
boy Scout pack, right, these they would have been just
fine wearing their boy Scout sassages the whole nine yards.
But you know, disenfranchised racism. You know, the early days

(30:10):
of boy.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Scouts getting pushed, pushed, pushed to you know, just a
certain culture.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
And then you know, now today it's allowed, but you know,
having everybody is inclusive, but it's a little late. So
you have all these people claiming neighborhoods that we're supposed
to be Boy Scouts.

Speaker 5 (30:27):
Yeah, that's a fascinating comparison, and right or wrong, I
think also you missed the communal aspect of that. I mean,
doing all those activities is one thing, and doing them
with a group of people together and learning together and
working together to have a goal that is a noble
goal is the significant part of that that's missed.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Alls right, And it just kind of probably made those
kids mad, like, well, why can't we do this? You
know I could, I could do this, And he's like, yo,
we can do this. Let's just do our own thing.
And next thing, you know, you get your own troops, okay,
your own packs. But now there are bloods, crips, Golden Knights,
I think is out there like all these different gangs.

(31:06):
You know that I had nowhere to go in the
early day, they were just shunned from society. And uh
interesting that that's my that's my that's my two bit
on kind of how it comes around.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Now.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
I don't know specifically about boy Scouts and other worked,
but uh, you know, I do see that the racism
that once existed in full force then then became hidden,
and then generationally it becomes just people act in a
certain way because that's the way things work. Even if
it's not as bad, it is just it changes the

(31:41):
behavior of the generation of kids. And so that's you know,
that's part of why mentorship is so important at a
younger age.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
That specific thing, I mean, you you know, you could I.

Speaker 5 (31:50):
Don't know how crazy the Boy Scouts are right now
with all the issues that they have, but but similar
programs to that I think now could still be valuable
if you made them inclusive and at least you got
to start with a small amount of people. If you
could help one person right figures out, you've accomplished a lot.
And if all over s thought like that, then we

(32:12):
wouldn't have, you know, a giant disparity anymore.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, Troop twenty here in Utah, shout out, true twenty.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
What's going on? My son's troop right now? Boy Scouts?
So I went through Scouts. My dad was an Eagle Scout,
you know, and you know, I just feel that, you know,
and I've read some things about the Scouts and that's
kind of I think. There's like a whole documentary about
Boy Scouts with the youth back then and how they
became owners of their own baseball fields. And that's where

(32:40):
the names come from for the Gangs is from their
baseball fields. Like you know, Compton had a baseball field.
Long Beach had a baseball field. The kids could play baseball.
Couldn't take them off the baseball field, so they would
hang out at the baseball field and just kind of
form up their own little scout packs, but doing other things,
just on their bikes, you know, doing whatever.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
Crazy.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Yeah it is, and and today they're pretty inclusive. I
do have to say that our unit here is pretty
inclusive with all the sorts of different individuals, you know,
so that's good to see and being a part of it,
I get to, you know, also make sure that it
goes that way, you know.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yeah, hey, and I appreciate you for that. I do
appreciate you for that.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
I know you didn't tell that story to you know,
in a self serving way, but no, I have a.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Great appreciation for you.

Speaker 5 (33:26):
So we do need people like you that are investing
time and mentorship because that's really that's that's how the
world's going to change, man.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
I mean, people our age.

Speaker 5 (33:35):
Are thinking the way we think, and you can change
some of the way we think, but the multiple minds
are really the most.

Speaker 4 (33:41):
Important right now.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
I completely agree, and you know, I just any of
the youth out there that are listening to this. You know,
you're the future, right, so you guys got to just
own it and just know that it.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Seems a big daunting task.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
But one day I was told I was the future,
and so here I am today. And one day you
were told, you know, taguing, that you're the future of
this nation and we have to just be the best
stewards of what is within our capabilities to control, and
you know, take care of those things.

Speaker 5 (34:13):
And especially the things that you're doing which are that
kind of embrace humanity in general, because I mean, this
newer generation is going to be really run by AI
with all the jobs.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Changing over and everything else.

Speaker 5 (34:26):
So so highlighting things like that too that are human
centric I think to be even more particularly valuable.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
AI make my not AI start my fireplace. Wait no,
that could probably happen right now. AI make a fire
You know what I'm saying. I'm in the woods. Oh,
dear AI, if you're listening up above, can you please
give me something to eat?

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah? No, no, no no.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
It's one of the few things you can rest on, man,
because there's a lot of other things, this pattern recognition
that's going to be taking a lot of those those
menial tasks that are valuable to people. So I think
those are some of the few things that I think
will keep the essence of the world connected.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
So I appreciate you for that.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
And you know, i'd say that the young men and
women in Scouts today, which I'm also happy to see,
there's both sides, Like there's Troop twenty, Troop eighty twenty,
all girls unit, all boys unit. In fact, we had
one of the first girls get their Eagle Scout. And
then also just to show equality here, we went to
camp twenty twenty twenty twenty one during COVID.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
And it was all dicey.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
It's like, can we go everybody has to wear masks
in the woods, et cetera, et cetera. Well, one of
the young girls, she was fifteen, she broke the boy's
record in a lake of swimming a mile, Like she
broke it. Yeah, it's been standing for a long time
and she broke that record. I was so proud of
her that, you know, like just one of the guys
high five, you know, and seeing that you can just

(35:51):
blend everybody together, and you know, boys, girls, they all
want to learn how to start a fire with two sticks.
Boys girls all like to repel down a rock together
and learn that safety mechanism. You know, it's not just
you know, you know you belong here, this is your lane.
You can't do this. Only boys can do this, right,

(36:12):
So I do love to see the whole thing mashed together.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
So it's good.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
It's smaller than it used to be, but it still
does exist.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
And so you know, it is awesome.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
And and I think that, you know, and then we
go talking about like you know, you going undercover and
talking about you know, drugs and racketeering and and all
these crazy things.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
I mean, drive by shootings.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
This is going on in Texas, right, You're talking about Texas, right,
like see, and I was just referencing where I you know,
La Area, but in Texas.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
Uh, I'm in LA Now.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
I see that, you know, I see the parallel. So
I've got actually I live in both places. I live
in Texas and in LA so I get you know,
I get perspectives from both spots. And it's you know,
it's the same, folks. Criminals are criminal, and you've just
got to again start figuring out how we keep this
cycle from occurring to where these criminals get put away

(37:10):
and we rounded up fifty one crips, put them away
for a high number of years, and the FEDS and
then we recognize, okay, now we have literally this operation
had one hundred and four kids left without a father figure, right,
and we know that's statistic. So it was like, okay, well,
how do we go back and fix this? You know,
this is my part in infiltrating and making the arrests

(37:32):
was key, but it's.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
Not an ender. You've got to then follow up and.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
Mentor the kids that are left behind, right, in order
to keep this from being something that has to happen
in twenty more.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Years, right, because chain of command, you know, take the
head off and it just regrows.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
You know.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
It's like how someone taste steps up into that leadership role.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Wow, yeah, I mean cah, that's that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
You know, how do you handle that one? You know,
it's like, you know, kind of a military aspect, right,
you got foot soldiers. It's like Ninja turtles. You got
the shredder, you got the foot, you got the foot,
you know, the foots leader guy. That's like, you know,
the shredder has to tell what to do. If you've
seen Ninja Turtles I'm talking the first nineteen eighty nine

(38:14):
ninety version Ninja Turtles with the foot you call this
your family. I am your father, you know the shredder, right, Yeah,
you know, well in.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
This case, in this case, I think we took so
many of them off the screen in that one area
that it was difficult to necessarily have somebody step right in,
although as you and I both know, that's inevitable. But
the key in our case was figure out how then
we can get.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
A mentorship program for these kids.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
That's the only thing that ever inspired me to write
the book, because people were talking about you know, once
this came out and they figured out who I was
and hitting the media and everything else, then that was,
you know, part of the the inspiration. They were saying,
you should write a book, Write a book. I'm like, oh,
I mean what.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
Full I mean?

Speaker 5 (39:00):
Undercover work is is never intended to be something that's
self glorifying.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
Because usually nobody even knows who you are anyway.

Speaker 5 (39:07):
But in this particular case, once we found out there
were that many kids, that's what I thought, Man, I'm
gonna tell this story in the most unbiased form that
I can, and we donate all the profits of the
book sales to attorneys and mentor children of incarcerated parents,
because really that's the only way to close that loop.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
So Life after the fish Bowl is that right? Right?
Is that? Is that what it's called life? Excuse me?
Life in the fish bowl?

Speaker 3 (39:33):
All proceeds go to help children whose parents are incarcerated,
right like within that lane. Okay, that's very cool, bro,
And you're just like, you know, you just want kind
of like there needs to be a program like the
YNCA was available.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
You know, that was the thing where they.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Could try to get off after school programs, you know
what I mean, like, hey, oh my son's over here.
I know where he's at for the next three hours
while I'm still working after school program. You know, but
they just get kind of like lured. At ten years old,
eleven years old, start missing school. You know, it's like
then it's the path starts, you know, and.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
You know most of it is just a lack of accountability.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
You know, when you don't have a father figure, your
mother's trying to do everything she can, especially when you're
in poor neighborhood. They're working long hours and trying to
hold it together, and then you're left alone to your
own whatevers.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
So you're right, these after school programs.

Speaker 5 (40:25):
At least hold you accountable, uh, you know, and give
you a sense of responsibility and goals.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
And some of these mentorship programs that we support.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
Are doing stuff like teaching you know, third graders how
to give a firm handshake and stare somebody in the
eye when you're you're introducing yourself, and teach them how
to apply for jobs. And also math tutoring and whatever,
the confidative art things.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yeah, anything, yes, and just and and and then you know,
if they're young and they get into an after school
program like martial arts in the area, you know, or
you know, Scouts or baseball or whatever it is. Swimming okay,
the gym. Now there's a lot of Brazilian Brazilian jiu
jitsu out there. Maybe they can go on to joining
the real gang, which is like the Marines. Okay, if

(41:15):
you really really really really really really really really want
to be in the baddest gang, okay, because you're bad,
but you're still good enough to get into the baddest gang,
you should look at the Marines. You should look at
the Army. You should look at the Air Force. You
should look at the Navy, because those dudes don't always need.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
A boy scout to do the job.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
In fact, they need someone to snatch Grandma out of
the car take the car to complete the mission. So
not everybody, you know you can have a chance to
go to the Marine Corps, serve your nation, wear the
same uniform. I promise you. They all throw signs at
each other and that okay, it's a salute.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Okay, yeah, that's I.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
Mean, it's a wonderful analogy because most of these eyes,
by the time they get to military application age, have
already f themselves because they've got a criminal record and
everything else where they're ineligible.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Or they went and serve prison time already, and they're like, man,
I should have joined the military. I should have just
went through the military. I should went through boot camp.
I should have just sworn OAF, got a paycheck, got
a uniform, had someone who loved me that yelled at me,
and then I could come see my mom and take
care of her, or take care of my little brother
and sister.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
They can come stay with me at my house, whatever
the case is.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Because now you're actually, you know, doing it, you're living life.
But if you screw up right now.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
And if you.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Start screwing around sixteen years old and you get a felony,
in a seventeen eighteen felony, you're not gonna be able
to join the military, right and you're gonna say what
did I do with myself? And then you just fall
back into that same domino.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Right there.

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Yeah, the self loathing and everything else that comes with
doing prison time and then getting out and then realizing, Okay,
now I'm a felon. So my job choice is just
reduced by about sixty percent. So now what janitorial job
do I want?

Speaker 3 (43:02):
And you know, or I'm gonna be a chef. Nobody
hates a fellow chef. Dude, If you're a good cook,
you can get a job anywhere. Okay, tattoos on your face,
in your hands, but you make the best eggs, you're hired.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
D That's okay. It's a great outlet.

Speaker 5 (43:14):
I mean, you can't got to find some ways to
put that into somebody's mind before they realize as soon
as they get back out, they have an opportunity to
link up with those same fools that put them bund
bars in the first place.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
And just remember that if you're listening to this and
you're you know, living life, there's life to live as
long as you choose the you know, the way to go,
you know, and there's there's there's a lot of options
right now that you can participate in. If you're a
young man listening or a young lady, you know, you
don't have to be in the gang life. Join the military.
See what that's all about, right, and bring one of
your friends with you to the recruiter's office and see

(43:47):
what they say.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
It is so true, it's so true.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Now I'm scratching my head right because the other part
of me comes out in this undercover aspect of like,
you know, try to decentralize the gangs here, k and
so like you get rid of fifty one guys, that's
got to make the rest of the guys nervous about
who's who with among themselves. Without realizing why that situation transpired,

(44:14):
like you know, they maybe never figured it was you,
They never never, you know, didn't they thought it might
have been a dude that got sent off. It could
have been one of their own that I don't know
how you played it to where it wasn't you. I mean,
we know it's you now because you've confessed and talked
about it, but they didn't know at the time it
was you.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
Well, not during nactual operation, no, but by the time
we rounded them up, I was on paper.

Speaker 4 (44:37):
So that was I mean, that's when everybody realized totally.
Only I've been working.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
With this cat for the last eight months or ten
months or whoever it was, and they're realizing, Man, tease
a cop and and I'm I'm screwed. Yeah, So I
mean I definitely was. You know, I had to come
out and testify. Although for some of the cats that
are really did like I test if, I had on
behalf of their character so that the judge would perhaps

(45:04):
consider giving him less time.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
But only I was only able to.

Speaker 5 (45:09):
Do that a handful of times because you know, there's
a lot of mistrust at the end of that. Obviously,
in my mind, I'm thinking, man, I really do care
that you get less time.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
I really I'm rooting for you.

Speaker 5 (45:19):
But you know, if I've been hanging out with you
for that long and we got to know each other
one way, and all of a sudden you find out
that you know, I'm I'm actually cop.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
And I was this was all up front, then it's
gonna be hard to believe.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
The next thing I say it was it was part
of the torment of the round up for me anyway,
Emotionally it was. It was really a draining experience for
me emotionally when that thing happened, wrapped up after all
those days.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Always yeah, because you might saw someone who was doing
something that seemed like robin hood for his family or
something like that, you know, and you're like, oh, he's
just taking care of his mom who's got MS, or
like he's just like, you know, trying to get bread
for his little brother, and you're just like, ah.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
Bro, yeah, I mean, just you know, bad decisions or
bad decisions.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
It's not like they didn't think it was a bad decision.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
I think when you use the excuse that, hey man,
I'm just trying to feed my family, I think it's
a cop out, to be honest with you. But I
do understand it more contextually because I understand in poor
neighborhoods it's a lot more difficult to actually come up
with significant amounts of funds. But again, that's part of

(46:26):
the educational process that needs to be followed up with
you know this has been going on generation after generation.

Speaker 4 (46:30):
It's about time.

Speaker 5 (46:31):
We teach these kids that there's a high ceiling for everybody,
and that feeling sorry for yourself because it might be
a longer road for you is it doesn't help anybody,
starting with yourself. So just ignore how hard this is
going to be and embrace it and say, look, the
fact is I can do this all my life and
I don't have to be the dead that's in prison.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Right right, Embrace the suck.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
Yes, it really is, man.

Speaker 5 (46:58):
I think they have less and less generations these days.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Who actually want to work.

Speaker 5 (47:02):
They keep trying to find like, how can I figure
out how to get this new career where I can
work less and get more out of it? And I
understand the efficiency of it. But you literally have people
that just don't want to sweat anymore. There's no appreciation
for hard work, and they still want the rewards that
come at the end of what normally would have been
earned through hard work.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
So what you're saying is ditches don't dig themselves. Okay,
it's true, and we.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Need ditches and we need things, and we need infrastructure,
and we need hard workers, we need foundations for buildings,
to be poured. I need someone to wake up at
four point thirty in the morning that's tired and wants
to put planks on the scaffolding to set up for
the mason work on a beautiful house that's going to
be built. We have to have hard workers out there
doing these jobs because you know, otherwise, I don't see

(47:49):
AI mixing mud forty scoops and laying five tongue of
brick up five scaffolding. I don't see the workload from AI.
It's got to be us. We have to take add on.
And you know, I do joke all the time that
I don't dig ditches, but I have and I did
do some brick mason work and was hot tender, and
I know what hard work is, and that.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Was it, and it kicked my ass character. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (48:13):
Yeah, And you know, you don't have to just pick
up a laborious job for it to be hard work.
I mean, you're just starting a business or whatever that
all these people think that is an easy road, which
is the most ridiculous notion ever. It's just the fact
that you have to invest time and effort into something
for it to be truly rewarding anyway. So you know,

(48:36):
trying to find a shortcut before you've actually earned any
stripes just makes no sense to me.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
And I think I think we're.

Speaker 5 (48:42):
Teaching people that it's okay to find the easiest path
before they actually have an appreciation for what.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Is hard, right, right.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
And I guess we can kind of blame social media
for a lot of that, you know, with this fast
thumb touch swipe, you know, upload and picture. And here
I am living on the Caribbean, but I don't really
even have a real job, but you need to be
here too, And like it's like, you know, every photo
is like it's so perfect here, it's so perfect there.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
I'm like, show my dirty room right now, show my
bet un made. Let's do that.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Hey, kids, let me take a picture of your room.
You know, when someone brings me food, I'm like, you
better make it instagram worthy. And they look at me
at the restaurant and I'm like, cause you don't know
if I'm taking a picture or not.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Bro, I want it to look good.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
You know, it better be instagram Worthy's it comes out
pretty instagram worthy.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
That's motivation to get your order, right.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
I tell you what, Yeah, it better come out instagram worthy.
It's like, Okay, does that look like spit to you?

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Oh yeah?

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Oh dude, sheez, bro Really, I love everybody, Okay, all
my hospitality workers, my servers, everybody in the industry. Thank
you for being there and taking the job to serve me.
And I'll get you.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
If you're my server, I promise you'll smile when when
we're done.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
That's hard work too, that's hard work.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Oh your feet. Oh.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
I have nothing but the most respect for people who
work in the restaurant business. Holy cow, front of house,
back of house, Me sitting down expecting it all just
to go perfect, and then they're making the scene happen.
You don't even see it. It's like, hey, where's my potatoes?
Why are they not golden? My customer said golden, He's
got twenty bucks on it. Let's go, you know. I mean, geez, dude,

(50:25):
I didn't know our conversation was going to wind up
with me being hungry at the end of it.

Speaker 5 (50:31):
It's you know, it's a good way to end is
say hey, I gotta go get something to eat.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah, always kick me that way.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
What am I supposed to say?

Speaker 3 (50:37):
I might just go give me some stacks of food,
you know, I go boxing every day. I burn my calories.
I believe in, you know, having some type of structure
every day with boxing or outside activity, like whether it's
snowboarding or you know. I do a lot of airsoft
war games, and that's where we use replica rifles that
are just like the real thing, but they shoot six
millimeters beaty and then we go and we have like

(50:59):
two or three hundred people together from the ages of
you know, nine to ninety nine, all right, and then
they're just playing war games. It's like big chess for me.
I have five hundred acres of desert out in the
west desert of Utah.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
We fight on it all the time.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
I have an indoor shoot house in Leyton, which is
just here in Utah, which has ten thousand square feet,
and so I have a lot of folks that come
after school and they sweep. They sweep all the bebies
up in the warehouse for two or three hours, fourteen
fifteen year olds and they earn passes to come and
play because it's twenty bucks to play there. So it's
like where does a kid get a job at fourteen fifteen?

(51:34):
And they come in they ask me, hey, you hire
and you hire, and I'm like, I never say no,
and I call the Department of Human Labor or whatever
here in Utah. I'm like, hey, how does the amusement
park here? How do they get away with hiring fourteen
year olds that haul the trash cans around the amusement
park all the time and sweep up? And they said, oh, well,
they just can't work more than three hours a day
on a school night, and they can't work with heavy equipment.

(51:54):
And I'm like, can they be eleven? I'm like, well,
as long as they're following the rules. And I was like,
so you can an eleven year old. I really ask
these questions of my labor people here because I have
a business, and so ever since then, I've just always
had like fourteen fifteen year olds sweeping bebies, you know,
cleaning it up a little bit, and then they come
in and play again. The after school program aspect, I mean,

(52:16):
I charged I charged twenty bucks.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
For four hours.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
That's five bucks an hour for your fifteen, seventeen, twenty
two year old whatever to be inside my shop playing
war games while you're getting off work at six thirty
right three to seven is the fight? So again with
the same type of scouting mentality that I have in
my that my dad had, that I've been involved with
and everything. I still bring that to my business. I

(52:40):
think the baseball side of things.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
I love that what do you say? Can I ask
a question? Since even though you're the interview sure, please,
how do.

Speaker 5 (52:51):
You respond to people who feel like that is perpetuating
a violent frame of mind?

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (52:59):
So I'd rather than control it and get it out
of their system inside my shoot house than uncontrollable somewhere
else where.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
It's a lot worse.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Right, So there is this fine line that I walk
with wargames, okay, And my belief is that as long
as I keep it along the lines of, Okay, you're
the shortstop on the team, you're the first basement on
the team. Okay, you're my heavy hitter on the team.
What kind of gear do you have? And I put
them together and they have a camaraderie of sportsmanship involved,
and at the end of every game we high five

(53:29):
and shake hands, just like at the end of a
baseball game you go to home plate and everybody slaps
each other's.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Hands from the other team. Good game, win or lose.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
We also have the ability to say like, hey, nobody
is allowed to use derogatory comments to one another on
the battlefield. It's one thing to bring me the damn AMMO.
It's another person another thing to call you a damn
mff or. So we don't allow that kind of conversation.
We don't allow any type of physical touch. So we've
been social distancing before it was ever cool, right, because
we have minimum engagement distance. It's like, you can't shoot

(53:57):
me with this unless you're fifty feet away. You can't
shoot me with this speed unless your point blank away.
You can knife me, but you can't use a hand
to knife. So we want hands to self. So what
we teach is, you know, I may have my you know,
training knife in my hand because I got so close
to you, I'm behind you, I'm gonna use it, but
it's not you your hands. So we just have this
barrier of like respect to one another on the battlefield

(54:19):
at all times. Uh integrity to call the to do
the right thing when no one is looking, which is
calling your hit. Because there's no paintball marker or anything
like that on your uniform, you have to you get shot.
It's like tat You're like, oh, I'm a hit that
that you really got me and you knocked a tooth out. Okay,
I'm hit all right. And then there's safety. So if
you can't climb it, hump it, jump it on, belay it,

(54:40):
or do it safely, it's not worth it in our
world because it's airsoft. The guys that enlist and go
off to do the real battle, or guys that have
enlisted like yourself, to face harm's way, you don't get
a respawn.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
It's not a video game.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
So we get to like think the warrior that goes
out ahead of us while we sit back and do
these war games here under our blanket of freedom in America. Now,
some kids will never have the opportunity to join the military,
and they should because they have asthma, or they were
born with a premature eye when they were like two

(55:13):
weeks premi or something happened to them that was out
of their complete control. But they are a grade good
to go, should be in. And it's like, why, oh well,
someone said somewhere yet asthma you can't join.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Well, those guys where.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Would they go if they didn't have a place to
go with all of that in their head? So the
wargame scene here allows you to come together.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
And I have guys like you. I have guys like me.
I have kids with asthma.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
We have moms that come out and then they realize
that they're welcome to play, and I mean, yeah, then
you have a mom who's dressed with her fifteen year
old in full battle rattle whearing like the best designer
face paint.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
She's like, rad, have you tried this one? I was like,
I have not, Mama nuke.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
She's like, here, give these black stripes a little smearing
your face because I asually wear like three black stripes
when we go out to the desert. That's my you know,
turning into that guy. And I tell you it just wife,
it comes off. I like it when it blends with
the sweat and uh, you know, it doesn't like stick
in my pores. So it's like, you know, when a
mom and a son could come out and fight, it
feel welcome out there and not like they're not welcomed

(56:18):
or you know, when you know the world can air soft.
In fact, if the world did air soft, we would
have a better safer place because nobody would really die.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
I aim into that it'd be.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Like, hey, I'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
Man.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
That was a good fight over that street. Dude.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Yeah, great, load out by the way, see you tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
So I hope that with my what I.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Answered you back here, my attitude and my passion for
what we do, you know, this is what we bring
to that here. I can't say that's for every single place,
but here in my circle of influence as a COI,
as the military calls me, that's what's up.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
I was just curious because I know, you know, there
there's all kinds of dissenters these days, and every extreme.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
One hundred percent, one hundred percent.

Speaker 5 (57:06):
I just appreciate an explanation that at least somebody they
don't completely disagree would certainly at least understand where you're
coming from at that point.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
That's that's really cool.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Yeah, I think that if I was to say, who
doesn't really agree with it, it's my Marines. So if
I get somebody who's salty and been there, done that,
and they're like, you're just glorifying something, and I'm just like, yeah,
I understand you've actually seen somebody pass or you've been
involved in firefights and things, and you know, I'll take
those lessons humbly from them and still apply it to

(57:35):
my community as a whole, and always say, hey, remember,
we're just the snowflake on the tip of the iceberg
of what combat is all about. Guys, We're just the
wind that blew the snowflake. I don't even know how
to say it, because the iceberg's so big at the
bottom of the ocean. You can't see it. It's so
dark and blue and just violent when it flips up,
you know, and it starts to crack and pop, these icebergs,

(57:57):
and so I usually say combat is an iceberg. You
just see a little tips sticking out, but underneath that
is a whole lot more going on to the situation. So,
you know, respect, integrity, and safety. We just try to preach,
you know, those three key fundamentals to everybody that comes
through our process, our pez dispenser of warriors that come through.
And again, I know that you're supposed to be the

(58:21):
one interviewed, but you're interviewed me. So I'm opening up
a little bit to my crew here. We have a
lot of folks who have joined the military through our endeavor.
Over my twenty two years of running war games. Here,
I would say, there's probably over five hundred bodies that
have come through my house that have joined the military

(58:43):
on record with the Army for a majority of that,
and then just you know, hey, now I tell people
go national Guard. So when they come through and they're
wanting something, I'm like, why don't you go guard? Because
then you stick around and if something does go down
here in Utah, you know who's going to be next
to you in the trenches, right huh okay, So stay guard,
Stay guard with me, homie, you know, stick around, or

(59:04):
go reserves.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
You know, go reserves. You want Marines, go reserves or
infantry reserves. It exists.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
You can go reserves and you can still work a
job that gives you a paycheck of like two thousand
dollars a week while you're still serving the nation and
your local community. So that's the National Guard. I think
they like me around here and the Utah Army National Guard.
There you go, there's a plug Utah Army National Guard.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
Yes, sounds like you just got a sponsor.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Oh yeah, they're great. You know a lot of the
recruiters I call them career advisors. You know, they really
mean well. I talk to them often because they're always like, hey,
rad you know, do you have anybody that's running through
your game? And I'm like, look, you're not allowed to poach.
If you want to meet my potential conducts, you've got

(59:52):
to play I'm on. And they're like, what do you mean.
I'm like, well, yeah, go shoulder to shoulder with these kids.
Come out to the trenches. Don't be the sergeant you
are right now. Just come out and fight. And then
when they bump into you and be like, hey, what's up.
Good job, Oh yeah, you're in the army. Oh that's cool,
it'll organically happen.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
That's interesting, that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Hey, thanks, I got to speak to people.

Speaker 5 (01:00:14):
I mean, I'm not sure if I completely understand that
talking to a person in person.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
But oh, you know, imagine, you know, imagine that because
a recruiter has to work on Saturdays, it's a part
of their duty. Then where do they go. They gotta
go somewhere. They gotta set up a table and have say, hey,
what's up, kid? You want to you want can of
Copenhagen and a list of the military. But if you're
out in the desert and you're wearing your battle rattle,
that you already have. And then you come out and

(01:00:40):
you've got some Airborne jump wings on your chest already,
someone's gonna say, hey, wow, you're airborne. He'd be like, yeah, oh,
are you still in Yeah? And you play Airsoft with us,
you approve us to play. It's like, yeah, this is great, dude.
You know, you're getting up, you're getting down, You're running
back and forth in the desert, you're staying hydrated. You
guys are you know someone's got medical kids on them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
You guys are.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
It's kind of like a boy Scouts, but just the
boy Scouts would not give me a merit badge in seven.
So the Army teamed up with me to try to
get the Boy Scouts of America to make Airsoft a
merit badge. They're like, rad let's get this official. Let's
try to get a merit badge for Airsoft. They came
back saying, you know, we like what you try to do,
but you're not procuring food.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
So it's like touchet, Okay, Well.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
You know, at the end of the day, you know,
my dad blames himself before he passed away.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
He's like, you know, I'm sorry, you love this so much.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
I'm like, why, Dad, He's He's like, I'm sorry, I
introduced you to the armory and growing up as a
green break kid. He's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I
introduced you to that at such a young age.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
I said, why, I love it. He's like, that's why.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
Yeah, yeah, but again that's the military who's lived it
and expraised it in a traumatic way.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
Yes, feeling that way, but you're like, man, I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
I don't see it that way because I haven't had
that experience, you know, so.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
It's right, you know, right, and I'm sure if I had.
But I have many people who have confided to me.
I've been hit up through Instagram from veterans and people
who are on their last dial, just hitting me up randomly, Hey,
rad can we talk.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I'm like, my wife's like, who are you talking to?

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
I'm like, I don't know, but I think that they're
just like not doing well right now, and they just
wanted someone to talk to. And then the next day
I come back and say, hey, I just woke up,
you're good, how you doing? What are you wearing today?
Just go to get breakfast, you know, and just try
to reply back to them. Make sure that everything's going good.
But you know, yeah, I'm cool with it, and I'm
still that way. So someone does reach out to me,
I'm still going to be an open heart and open
mind to that individual.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
So yeah, that's great.

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
So all you have to do, in other words, to
get your merit badge is to change the policy to
you kill what you eat, what you killed.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
That's right, and then that's right, that's right, that's right.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
Don't mind that, don't mind the mock grenades in my
plate care, don't mind those. But that's what we do,
and I mean it gets pretty intense, and we do
just large scale war games.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
Love it, thank you, and you know, anyone out there
can look me up find it. It's here in utah
utah Airsoft, of course. But my guest today is Teague
in Broadwater, who has put himself into harm's way for
the real deal to try to salvage life.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
In his community.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
I guess you could say, you know, from the crips,
and you know, and dude, you know your book Life
in the fish Bowl is it? It's out right now,
isn't it, yes, sir? Yeah, And we can get it
on Amazon and all the places that books are sold, right,
and I bet you I bet you would like this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
I bet you would like me to say, Hey, go
buy the book.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
All proceeds go to the Children of Incarcerated Parents through
the organization, and leave a review down below where you
buy the book if you buy it on Amazon, or
you buy it at Barnes and Noble, or you go
to local mom and pop shop and say, hey, can
you get me the TG in Broadwater Book in the
fish Bowl please?

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
You know that's cool. Go to the local shop hit
them up.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
If not, leave a comment down below so that it
could help, you know, bring the book to where it
needs to be. Or the writers, the authors can kind
of see feedback, which is what they would like to see.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Oh hey, in this.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Part page three, I relate to that, you know, or
in this part, hey, that's not how a summary would
really dive down, you know, leave that in the comments.
Let these guys and gals know what you think about
their writings, right amen, that's right, dude, do you have
a movie coming out about you?

Speaker 5 (01:04:38):
Man? We were attached to Scott Bernstein out here, which
is what started bringing me to La pre Covid.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Yeah, and Scott.

Speaker 5 (01:04:46):
Burnstein was the produced straight out of Compton. So it
was a perfect alignment of people with the right kind
of connections and the right vision for the story. And
it started as a movie project then, but then when
COVID hit, they also so I had the Aretha movie,
which came out, you know, right as COVID started taken over,
and COVID kind of wiped out the movie industry. And really,

(01:05:10):
I mean, we already had TV series and stuff coming
about before that, but once those theaters shut down and
COVID hit, everything now is a series. As you know,
it's hard to find good stuff at the theater. Not
that I don't still root for it, but that deal
only fell through because of COVID. And you know, my

(01:05:30):
staunchest negotiation stance is that, hey, they don't make a
movie about this, then my life is perfectly fine anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
But I do have lots of people making inquiries.

Speaker 5 (01:05:40):
It just really has to be the right deal for me,
because what I don't want this to come out as
is some kind of Batman story where I'm kind of
some kind of superhero guy, because this is a real
story about real humans. There's two sides to every story,
and I have a great appreciation for that, and there
were people that I liked. So if you presented the
story in a long form TV series, I would love

(01:06:03):
for people too. Similar to something like The Wire, where
you where you know the good guy needs to win,
but at the same time you kind of like this
bad guy character and you kind of hope he gets
away with it because.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
You kind of like him, but you know getting away
with it's not good.

Speaker 5 (01:06:18):
You know, you just you're tormented by that conundrum. That's
kind of liking the character. And that's true to life
because that's how I felt going through those motions. You know,
I really felt attached to some of these folks knowing
they were about to go down, and you know it
was emotionally at the very least.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
That's wild. That's wild, that's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
I hope that something comes your way that fits your
bill that you'd like to see happen. And I know
I've had you for a while, get over an hour,
but you're so cool to talk to and we just
go back and forth, and I want to show my listener, Hey,
you and I just kind of met today and we've
had this conversation going back and forth. It could have
been over Madden. Dude, we could have had this conversation

(01:06:56):
while playing Madden.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Okay, I think you guys sucking.

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
Man now, but I used to be quite proficient.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Oh you remember the specials? You would have remember, you
would remember it. I'll come back Triangle. I don't know
however you play PlayStation Xbox, but see well, I hope
you much success. I will wind down the show today
saying thank you to Teague and Broadwater who came on
to the show and spent time with us to talk
about his life inside of undercover work, you know, exploring

(01:07:25):
me a little bit more and just trying to get
to know each other as human beings on this earth.
And I hope you take what I said at the
beginning that we all believe the same blood. At the
end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're a
king or you're a popper. It's all red. So with
that said, I want to wish Teagan a rock and
soul kind of day and say that we had a

(01:07:46):
great time grooving out to you know, our conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Hope to see you play a show someday in my life,
and then I can say I know that guy and
I'm proud of that guy. And then if you think
about joining the CRIPS, talk to your local Marine Corps
recruit recruiting career advisor first and let them know your
job plans.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Okay, see if they can help you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
And geez, I guess go check out Life in a
Fish Bowl. Thank you for your publicist for sending you
our way. You have been a great guest, and you're
welcome back because I'm sure there's a lot more that
you could expound on if you ever wanted to, or
if a movie happens, or you're like you'll, Rad, we
didn't talk about this, this and this. You're a welcome
person back to the show, So thank you well man.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Thank you for that too.

Speaker 5 (01:08:33):
And I you know, I think there's there's a lot
of symmetry here too, so so you let me know anytime.
I'd be happy to go back. It's pleasure to get
to know you. You seem like a really cool cat.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Well, thank you, and I will I'll take that for
all it's worth, and on behalf of Teagan and myself,
Rad and the crew here at soft rep dot com,
including the merch store. Okay, and to you, the new
person that just came to our life. Welcome and if
you're watching this on YouTube, re Spotify or anywhere, thank you.
Turn it up, crank it up, share it out there,

(01:09:04):
and tell your friends that we're here and we exist
and we'd love to have them listen as well to
our show. So again, Teag in Broadwater, thank you so
much for being here, Life and a fish Bowl. My
name is rad On, behalf of Brandon and everybody here
a software rep saying peace.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
You've been listening to your self, Red Lady