October 15, 2025 • 53 mins
Claude catches up with his longtime friend Bob Philion, the man who helped build Puma Golf from the ground up. They talk about his rise to leading Puma North America, how athletes and influencers shape modern sports marketing, and what’s next for one of golf’s most forward-thinking executives.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the Son of a Butch podcast. I'm your host,
Claude Harmon this week's guest. I'm always trying to figure
out different ways to kind of bring people in the
golf space and outside of the golf space into the conversation.
Bob Phillion, over twenty years at Puma, was one of
the He was the first employee at Puma Golf, and obviously,
given the big brands landscape, I mean obviously all of
(00:24):
the brands that sponsor athletes, they're such a huge part
of sports culture. And Bob has chosen to move on
from his role as head of Puma North America. But
he's a friend, a mentor, and someone that I really
really enjoy talking to. And it's a really good conversation
talking about golf, talking about the brand space, and kind
(00:46):
of talking about all of the things that go into
sports marketing. This is Bob Phillion. My guest today is
Bob Filian. He spent twenty years at Puma. Bob, you
were the first one in the door to start Puma
Golf employee number one. You've moved on from your role.
We'll get to all the stuff that you're doing kind
(01:07):
of post working for Puma. But when you go back
to those early days of you and the brand starting
Puma Golf, I mean, obviously you're taking on some of
the big players in golf, obviously Nike with Tiger Woods
and their sponsorship ADI Das and all of that. What
was the original impetus for Puma to get into the
golf space and the golf space in general. Where do
(01:32):
you feel like that fits in kind of the rest
of the other sports that all of these big, massive,
you know, sports companies have.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, So I think there was a couple of things
happening when Puma got into golf. So this was two
thousand and six, so going back a bit, and one
was the brand was heating up, so Puma was trending globally,
and there was a fashion ability happening in golf and
(02:02):
call it you more fit golfers, a little bit of
European fashion coming into the game, and it felt like
an opportunity for Puma to reach a new audience and
expand into a new sport and quite frankly, get stronger
in the US marketplace because Puma wasn't in American football
(02:23):
basketball to any large extent, you know, in hockey and baseball,
and so golf was kind of seen as a way
to reach a broader audience and with this fashion ability,
bring some of its European roots, you know, into the sport.
The other thing, as you know, that was happening and
golf is that broader sport brands were getting into the game.
(02:46):
You mentioned Nike and Adidas, and so it wasn't such
a kind of niche sport with golf specialty only brands
being involved, and I think that kind of paved the
way for Puma to get into to the sport. What
started as kind of more of a sport lifestyle play
(03:06):
became you know, really more deeply rooted in sport because
we got off to a fast start with golf courses
and pros and that really kind of paid the way
for what would lead to, you know, the Cobra acquisition
and getting deeper in the sport.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And obviously, if you're going to make a big push
into a I mean a lot of people that I mean,
everybody that listens to this podcast is obviously listening because
they're golfers. And when you're inside of golf, you and
I have talked about this a lot. When you're a
golfer and you're in golf. You think golf is a big,
big sport. But you know, from a macro side of things,
(03:44):
if you look at all of the brands, but specifically
for a brand like Puma, if you look at their
football slash soccer, their you're saying Bolt, their track and field.
I mean, golf is a very very small brand. So
I think it was really interesting that, you know, if
you look at the early days, I don't think you
can discount, you know, the partnership that you guys created
with Ricky Fowler, because I think Ricky was so closely
(04:07):
Bob associated with Puma. I mean, you couldn't really think
about Ricky without thinking about Puma Golf, and you couldn't
think about Palumac Golf Puma Golf without thinking about Ricky.
Was that something that you actively thought of? And on
the wider scope, Bob, how do you guys in the
brand side find these athletes that you want to partner with?
(04:28):
What are you looking for When you looked at Ricky
Fowler and he was early on in his career, I
mean it was very very early days. So Booma Golf
kind of grew with Ricky as Ricky kind of grew
as a professional athlete and as a professional golfer. That
that synergy in that partnership. What did you guys see
in Ricky early on and why did you choose him
(04:50):
and why do you think it was such a great fit.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, so a lot in there, claud I think going
back to the first point. You know, golf, to your
point is is small in the scheme of you know,
the broader brand. So there's a lot of sports that
are bigger than golf, but we say it has a
high kind of shake up factor. I mean, you know,
there's a lot of sports where you have jersey deals
and it's hard to really cut through. And in golf,
(05:15):
you know, with someone like Ricky, we're able to have
one guy on the fairways at august In all orange
with at one time an orange driver and really really
shake things up and cut through. And so, you know,
golf ultimately was a little under ten percent of total
business to give you an idea of some scale, but
(05:36):
very important from a visibility perspective, because certainly golf peaks
in the you know, popular culture calendar, you know, several
times a year, and certainly in the springtime, you know,
around Augusta for sure. I think specific to Ricky and
ambassadors in general, you're really looking for two things. One
is world class performance. I think you know, at the
(05:59):
end of the day, ambassadors are about visibility and the
ability to to get eyeballs and that comes with being
a great athlete. And you know, now even broader than well,
I'm sure we'll talk about influencers just getting eyeballs. So
I think that's one one part of it. I think
we're at Puma we always tried to stand out. Is
(06:23):
that it factor having a swagger, an attitude, something else,
some some kind of a hook back to you know,
whether it was Pele or Diego Maradona or Joe Namath
or Reggie Jackson. I mean you name like some you know,
the historic ambassadors for for PUMO, Clyde Frazier, I mean,
(06:44):
really world class performance fused with this this swagger and
and and a hook. Ricky had that in space, you know,
I think coming with a motocross you know, background, he
certainly looked different. I think the flat brim had, you know,
set him apart. I think the way that he wanted
to wear color and be bold, and we certainly partnered
(07:05):
with him on that entire journey, and you're right, as
he kind of grew, we grew with him as our
business because what started as a very small business and
trying to cut through and just get some eyeballs really
started getting much deeper as a bigger business as he
kind of matured his own game and kind of grew
(07:25):
his look. You know that that helped our business, you know,
along the way. And so I think it's always looking
across sports, and you know, whether it's Formula one, you know, basketball,
even entertainment and Rihanna and Selena and all these ambassadors
over the years, it still comes down to being great
at what you do and then having something else that
(07:49):
could cut through the clutter and make a difference for
the business.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
How is the golf customer different, Bob, than so the
golf demographic that the companies are trying to go after
all of the club manufacturers, the clothing manufacturers across the
board in the golf space. How is that for someone
like yourself that started at Puma Golf. Then you had
that second phase of your career when Cobra was acquired
(08:14):
from Titleists. So then Puma all of a sudden had
a club components you had Cobra Puma Golf, you stayed there,
you grew that, and then you went on to run
Puma North America, which those of us in the Puma space,
that's big Puma, right, that's all of the sports, right.
How is the golf customer different and what is that
(08:35):
golf customer looking for? That is different from someone that's
buying a basketball sneaker, that's buying something from another sport,
because I think it's very it's very niche. But from
the brand side of it, as someone that's trying to
sell to these people, how is the golf customer different
and why is the golf customer important to these big brands?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, well, I think going back to one of the
last points, it is a smaller group. So I always
use the analogy of going through the airport and out
of ten consumers, you know, maybe one of those is
a target golf consumer, right, and we're trying to sell
cob Puma golf to them. And so you know, as
you broaden out and you have all the categories and
(09:19):
you work in things like hoodies and T shirts and
slides and whatever, ten out of ten are you know,
ultimately your consumer. But that golf consumer is important in
a couple different ways. One is, retail prices in golf
are certainly higher than any other category and in some
cases three four times that. So you have you know,
(09:40):
a higher ticket in golf and a more aspirational, you know,
customer that has has more money quite frankly, to spend
you know, on their on their products. And so that
ability to have you know, clubs together are with footwear,
(10:01):
apparel and accessories was super important to like outfit the
entire you know, golf shop and be able to service
you know, golfers at all skill level.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
When you said, I mean, if we hear that term
right in marketing aspirational for you guys on the brand side,
what does an what does an aspirational customer mean? And
how is that different than someone that watches the NBA
or watches the NFL and watches other sports that aren't
necessarily kind of a niche sport like golf.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, I think you know, if you think of about
the diehard golfer, you know, they consume a lot of products.
And again going back to you know, retail prices, you know,
it's an expensive sport and so when you have that
kind of consumption. You know that those are lucrative consumers,
those diehard golfers that are you know, shopping a new
driver you know every year, irons every you know, a
(10:52):
couple of years, certainly, you know, shoes you know a
couple of times a year, and a new closet full
of you know, polos. You know that that is high
purchase and so that that certainly is different than you know,
some other sports where you're buying, you know, paired to
of either soccer fleats or basketball shoes or you know,
(11:14):
something like that.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
A couple of years ago, right before the pandemic, I
got to go over to Puma headquarters and they had
their big kind of Puma three sixty. Jay Z was there,
Total Wolf from Mercedes F one was there. A lot
of the athletes were there. And you know, when I
look at golf and I look at all of the
people that I've met, Bob of the course of my
lifetime and in the sport of golf, it's amazing how
(11:37):
many people that I have met in the wider sports world,
the fashion world, the music world. And although golf at
times can can be a small market, I kind of
think it's a meeting point for a lot of other
people because it is something that other athletes are driven towards.
People in the music space, the fashion space. Why do
(11:58):
you think golf has allure to these other people? Because
I get really amped up when I meet musicians and
people in sports, but athletes, musicians, actors, they're just golf obsessed.
Why do you think so many people outside of the
core golf space that are other athletes and stuff, why
(12:21):
do you think they're so interested in the game of golf.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Well, I think there's two things. You know, you have this.
I guess the superstars in sports they use golf as
kind of their getaway that they can go to a
golf course and not be bombarded with people and you know,
paparazzi and autograph seekers and whatnot. So it's almost like
their escape. So I think that is one. You know,
(12:44):
it's a competitive sport and they're able to do that
with their friends and stay active, and it really is
kind of a getaway. I think the other thing, and
it's kind of counter to that, is when golf is
this amazing connector of people and so, you know, you
and I have been fortunate to be around a lot
(13:05):
of different events that bring you know, people together, so
you know, it's kind of two different worlds. You got
these people that want to get away and then you
have this other side of golf that brings people together.
And there's a business side of that of course, but
you know, a community building a component of it, and
you know at a golf event you can have hundreds
and hundreds of people, right. So I've always felt like
(13:28):
golf is this for that is very inclusive, and yeah,
it has this natural element to it that you know,
brings people together.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You mentioned that Kuma Golf kind of started in two
thousand and six, but when I look at the modern
kind of modern golf, to me, that is kind of
post Tiger Wood, so ninety seven onwards in my opinion, Bob,
I Man, I'm fifty six now. I never played golf
growing off. You know, when I my dad obviously being
(14:01):
golf and my entire family being into golf. But when
I was growing up, I was born in you know,
the in nineteen sixty nine, golf was not cool, right,
I mean, it was old men, the clothes were weird.
There wasn't an athletic part of it at all. And
so when I look at the modern game, of golf.
To me, Tiger Woods is kind of what was the
(14:22):
tipping point that kind of moved us into the modern
golf era when you look at kind of when Cobra,
Puma and Puma Golf started the marketing aspect of that
in the last twenty years, Bob, how is the marketing
aspect of a change, because it seems like it's changing,
you know, almost on a weekly, monthly basis, and now
(14:44):
with social media with all of these influencers, and then
if you look at the rise of how the television
product has changed, how and where we as consumers consume
our media, where we consume our sports. Are you surprised
it kind of how it's gone and and has it
(15:04):
been a constant evolution for you guys on the brand
side to try and keep up with all of these
trends and changes.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's it's changed, uh, you know
in huge ways from that traditional Hey, find an ambassador
that is has that world class performance and then market
the hell out of them to all the different ways
that people can get eyeballs now. And you know, you
(15:33):
look at some of the trends now, you know, take
basketball for example, that tunnel walk is so important that
tunnel walk and who's sitting court side sometimes is as important,
if not more, depending on the game than the points
and the rebounds that you're getting on the court, right
and so, and you know multiply that across you know sports,
of what are those influences? You certainly have the nil
(15:55):
space that is is trend changing things dramatically. I would
I would also put in collaborations in there. So it's
not just having an athlete, But how do you have
an athlete, you know, a Ricky with a Caigo and
the music scene and a Palm Tree crew and then
plan events you know around that, right, you know, how
(16:17):
do you know, work with Rihanna, but you're planning you know,
super Bowls and music and her dancers and like everything.
You know. It's it's the rich storytelling that is happening
now is just off the charts. I mean, it's not
a launch with LaMelo anymore. It's Lamello who liked Rick
and Morty And that shoe is coming out and what
(16:39):
is that car that he's going to drive to the
game the day that you know you're going to launch
that those kind of things. I would say that that's
probably the biggest thing is the multitude of angles to
get visibility that has evolved over time, and the really
rich storytelling that goes, you know, across that that planning.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
We talked about this. Jay Z came to Puma and
said he wanted to help you guys get into the
basketball space. And you told me that obviously when someone
like jay Z, who is a I mean, I mean
I was in Germany and jay Z walked into the
room and it was like all the air got sucked
out of the room. And I'm you know, I've been
around a lot of famous people. I've met a lot
(17:22):
of crazy people. I'm standing ten feet away from jay
Z and I'm like, and that's that's jay Z. I
mean it was I got to meet him. I got
to shake his hand and talk to him for about
ten minutes. One of the coolest things I've ever done.
But you told me about that first meeting when when
when he decided and you guys decided you were going
to meet with him. You said, the meeting with jay
(17:44):
Z and his team was like meeting with fortune. Five
hundred CEOs, the rise of the athlete entertainer as a business,
I mean forty fifty years ago, you probably wouldn't imagine
that athletes and musicians and people in that space, the
(18:05):
performance space could also basically be their own brand and
be these like CEO type characters. That experience you guys
had with jay Z was that really eye opening for you?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, in a big way. And I would say that
basketball and maybe the collision with music set a lot
of those trends because you had people that were just
passionate about the game of basketball and got involved. And
so yeah, when we had the opportunity to work with
him to kind of relaunch Puma Basketball because Puma was
(18:40):
you know in the category and again back into the
seventies around Clyde, but really twenty eighteen, you know, relaunch
and get back into the category and do it from
a disruptive way, no different than how we entered golf,
you know, doing it differently, and I think she gave
us that avenue to do that through the lens of
(19:04):
music and culture, not just signature athlete and yeah, being
you know, very disruptive with the go to market plans.
He's all about you know, authenticity, staying true to the
brand and the roots of the brand, and you know,
(19:24):
growing slow and making sure that you're developing desirability along
the way and creating brand heat.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
But when you partner with an athlete like Ricky and
we see this in basketball as well, that all the
brands through, but Puma does this as well. But you're
going to try and give that that athlete and that
player and identity. And you know, with Ricky, you guys
kind of let him kind of design kind of how
that collaboration between the brand side and the athlete side.
(19:53):
Talk me through what that collaboration looks like. You go
to an athlete, you say, okay, listen, we want to
kind of build a line around you. We kind of
want to build a shoe around you from your side
and from the athlete side of it, or from the
entertainment side, the stuff that who moves on with Beyon,
you know with the weekends all that kind of stuff.
When you guys kind of go through that process, is
(20:17):
it a sit down between you say, listen, give me
some ideas of what you want to try and do,
and they kind of and it's a just kind of
a meat in the middle type thing.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It really is a collaboration. The best ones are when
both sides have ideas and you know, as as the brand,
we would always try to get, you know, from the
ambassador their ideas first, because if we shape it with
what we're thinking, that can kind of you know, cloud
(20:49):
the field a little bit. So I think it is
so important to have an ambassador that's passionate about something
and really get what's exciting to them, because we know
that that's going to matter when it comes to again
go to market plans and the promotion and the pushing
of the product. And so yeah, the best meetings are, hey,
what what are you thinking? What do you think there's
(21:09):
a gap in the market, What excites you? What do
you get inspired by? And then of course, you know,
as a brand, we've got either new technologies coming out,
there's a business need, you have launch dates and calendars
to fill, and product plans and architecture and so yeah,
the perfect balance is you're getting someone like Ricky that's like, hey,
(21:30):
I still want to wear orange pants at Oklahoma State.
You know, Oklahoma State's really important to me. By the way,
could you make an orange shirt and an orange hat
and an orange shoes. And then we get into like
stylizing that and what is that going to look like?
And again, if it's important to him, it's important to
the brands, and then it's like, yeah, how can we
bring this to life? And then let's brainstorm of how
(21:53):
you know, we could launch certain things, and so yeah,
it's it really is this. Yeah, I'm sure collaboration gets
used over and over, but the best ones are when
you know, both sides come to the table with creative
ideas that are important to them and then you know,
making it work.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And how important with those collaborations when you're going to
give an athlete to shoe or give an athlete a line,
how important is it from a scalability standpoint but also
from a profitability standpoint for that to be authentic to
the athlete or to the performer that you're trying to
(22:35):
get into.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I think it's everything. And I think gone are the
day's claud of you know, slapping a person's name or
a logo on product that's not authentic, you know. I
think I think the bullshit meter is run and high
with consumers these days. I think they can sniff it
out very quickly if it's you know, just a business transaction.
(22:58):
So I think I think that's why Kuma has gone
deeper with the storytelling as well as you know, getting
creative directors and designers, like whether it was Selina or
Rihanno or jay Z, you know, people that can get
more involved in just you know, signing a contract and
launching you know, product, because I really do think it's everything.
(23:21):
I think not only does it create a better stream
for the product to get poured out of, but I
also think it really helps the sale and the promotion
because if the ambassador is really behind it. You know,
if Breonna Stewart's you know, her launch of her second shoe,
that first colorway was ruby for her daughter, and you
(23:43):
can imagine, you know, all the launch opportunities around that,
but how important that was for her that that product
was going to be successful and get seen. You know
that that stuff is everything.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
When you were ahead of Puma North America. How much
competition do these big brands have with each other? I mean,
obviously you know in the US, you know, from a
big shoe standpoint, you've got Nike, you've got Adidas, you've
got Puma, you've got under Arm and stuff. The competition
between the brands to get the right athletes, to get
(24:17):
the right messaging across how much is that real And
how much is someone you know during your time running
you know Broom in North America? How much do you
feel that competition between the other you know, brands. We
feel it in the athlete space, right there's competition. Yes,
we all I mean most golfers pretty much get along
(24:38):
and have respect for each other, but they all want
to beat each other, you know when they're playing. You know,
and from a brand standpoint, is there that sense of
competition and that sense of rivalry that you have with
the other brands where you're trying to make sure that yeah,
I mean, hey, I like you. I think you're a
nice person, but we want to beat what you guys
are doing.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That's exactly it. It's fierce and it's brutal. And I
would say it's not just on the athlete side. I
think it's every price point. I think it's every category,
it's every employee, it's every media deal, it's it's yeah,
you name it. I think it's very fierce and competition
is is gotten stiff. You know, every brand is trying
(25:21):
to find their you know, niches that they've got more runway.
Take Formula one for Puma, for example. You know, not
a place where some others play and so you know,
same same thing you know in golf. I think it
was trying to fuse this fashion and lifestyle into sport
and find a laye there that wasn't you know, as crowded.
(25:44):
But yeah, I mean it's it's fierce. And again it's
not just the athlete. I think it's it's every aspect
of the business and it is it is felt daily,
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
So at all of the majors. From a golf standpoint.
I don't think people listening understand or realize how much
scripting of the big golf the big golf players, you know,
the superstars that are closely aligned with their brands, right.
I mean, if you look at Roy mclroy, Rory's been
(26:17):
with Nike for a very long time, Scotti Scheffler's with Nike,
DJ was with you know, from a clothing side, you
know of things, he was with Adidas forever, and then Ricky.
So talk to me and let the listeners know that
concept of Okay, twenty twenty six is going to be
you know, the Masters twenty twenty six is kind of
(26:39):
the first of the majors. So give everybody kind of
an insight as to what is going on behind the
scenes with regards to looking already you know, I mean
if you look back at your career, I mean we're
in October now, you guys pretty much already know what
Ricky Fowler is going to be wearing at the Mass
(27:00):
in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That's right. Yeah, you're you're working about a year out
in advance, and then when it comes down to scripting,
you can get a little closer than that. Certainly the
first half of the year you kind of know the
majors and the big tournaments, and I would say, Claude,
there's there's really three buckets how scripting works. The best
thing for a brand and for a lot of the
(27:25):
I'd say Superstar athletes is one hundred percent scripting. So
it is it is getting ahead of it, knowing exactly
what they're going to wear, putting together the outfits, which
even before product is actually made, starts on storyboards with
you know, cad drawings of you know what that that
would be, and working with the athlete on hey, why
(27:45):
don't we, you know, do this camo thing on this Thursday,
And why don't we do some metallic stories on Friday?
So on and so forth. So it's building that script
and then when it gets down to the tournament, that's
in the closets and you know, you've got a sport
marketing team that is is lining that stuff up that
week and it's literally trying to eliminate that from their
(28:08):
thought process and letting them just concentrate on their performance
and everything's ready to go. So that being a brand guy,
that's the ideal because you've got all your marketing, the
gun is loaded, you know exactly what's happening, You've done
the pr you know, you know what that Saturday is
going to look like, you know, come TV time. Then
I would say there's another bucket that's kind of a
(28:29):
softer version of that. Yeah, you've got some scripting, but
the player wants some flexibility on how they're feeling that
day if they want to, you know, go off script
and wear something else. I mean, as a brand guy, again,
that's a little bit. If it's a major, that's a problem.
If it's you know, it's a tournament, but below the major,
it's a different story. But you know a lot of
(28:51):
a lot of really good players want you know a
little bit of flexibility in that they understand, hey, this
is a model of foot where you're trying to push
and so I get that, but you know, some flexibility.
And then the third bucket, again as a brand guy,
is the worst bucket, which is players like, yeah, just
send me my stuff and I'll put it together, and
(29:12):
that that's a challenge. Now you have some that you
know their their better halves, are very good at it
and can put it together and everyone's happy. But you
know that that first camp of knowing ahead what the
player is going to wear, so that you can really
take advantage of the upfront marketing and the selling propositions
(29:32):
so that the store is able and our retailers are
able to maximize. That is certainly the way we draw
it up.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
From a golf standpoint, Bob, would you would it be
fair to say that the players that kind of have
their own specific style and kind of have their own
specific book regardless of what brand they're with, does that
go inside with their interest in clothing and how they're
good example for me is someone like Adam Scott. Like
(30:02):
Scutty's always looked very very specific on the golf course.
Started his career, believe it or not, at Jay Lindeberg,
then he went to Aquascutum, then he went to Berbury
and then he went to Uniclo. But Adam has a
very very specific look with the way he looks at Uniclo.
But Adam really does care about the way he looks
(30:23):
both on and off the golf course. How hard is
it for the brands to work with someone from a
clothing side that doesn't really care, that isn't really interested
in fashion, that just wears, you know, I mean if
you look at Tiger Woods off the golf course, Tiger,
I mean, it's pretty much almost one hundred percent. If
Tiger isn't at a function where someone else is dressing him,
(30:47):
Tiger is going to be wearing Nike shorts, black shorts
and a white long sleeve hoodie or that's kind of
his uniform, right.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
If you look at Adam Scott or someone who's into
fashion away from the golf course, they have their own look.
Like when I go out and go to like parties
and stuff like that, you can tell the guys that
care about clothing. You can tell the guys that are
just going to go buy the most expensive art. You're like, oh,
so you're the guy with the Gucci baseball hat. Great,
(31:16):
good job, you know. Yeah, you're the one that bought
that outfit too. I think going back to that authenticity,
it must work better for you guys on the brand
side from a clothing and fashion standpoint if the athlete
is into that as well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Totally, totally, and it goes back to, you know, the
scouting and who's coming on board is you know, certainly
Puma's position. We wanted players that had a point of
view on it and and in fact different points of view.
You know. It wasn't you know when we signed Bryson,
he didn't want to be like Ricky. You know, none
of the players after Ricky wanted to look like Ricky. Right,
(31:53):
he had his own lane and was rocking his stuff,
and so you know, Bryson kind of played more of
this classic lane where Ricky was kind of doing the
progressive thing. And then then as things kind of evolved,
you kind of evolved with the player in their taste.
You know, take a Gary Woodland for example, so passionate
about folds of Honor, giving back the volition America. I mean,
(32:15):
what a perfect fit for him. Yeah, and it's like
that's what he was about. He was so passionate about it,
and it's like, next thing, you know, we've got a collection,
you know that he can wear. That also gave him
a lane that was different than you know, the other
players you know that we had. You know, Lexi wanted
to wear her you know, light blue kind of Sundays
(32:38):
and you know, was passionate about certain pieces and certain looks.
Same thing. So yeah, it starts kind of like who
comes to the brand, but then working with them and
you're right, it's got to be kind of authentic and
kind of organic to them. That's that's when it works best.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
You mentioned Bryson Deshambeau. You guys kind of gave Bryson
is starting not only with who from a clothing side,
but also Cobra from the club side. How many years
was he with the brand?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Six years? Yes, six years until live game and obviously
those contracts yeah, I mean those players are signing signing
would live. So yeah, six years from that time at
SMU till still live.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So when you look at Bryson and you look at
the kind of the arc of his trajectory, not only
as an athlete but as a person, I'm gonna go
on a limb here and think and say, you've got
to look at Bryson in twenty twenty five and think, man,
it would have been a lot of fun to have
Bryson be the kind of person he's become off the
(33:43):
golf course in the social space also socially as a person. Yeah,
that evolution of Bryson, it's been very very interesting to
watch that, and it's been kind of cool to watch
that kind of him completely almost do a one eighty
on people feeling differently about it.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I think, what a fascinating ride,
not just kind of our six years, but to see
I guess his what nine maybe ten now as a
professional and you know, thinking about early on and again
back to world class performance, you know, he was doing
things that only a few players had done as an amateur, right,
(34:25):
and so we knew that he was a great player
and going to do great things, but he also had
kind of some hit factory. He had some different things, right,
not just his look and even down to you know,
Ben Hogan's hat, but it was also one length and
then obviously he went the distance route and what that
you know, brought to the brands in terms of visibility
(34:48):
and distance and everything, and then certainly to see that
you know, last few years and that shift in what
he's done, and as every athlete does, you know, grows
up with you know, the business and then everything he's
doing off the course now too. You know, what a
great story, what a what a great ambassador for the game,
(35:09):
you know, of golf. And when you think of the audience,
you know, take his YouTube stuff, Now, how many people
he's touching with this great game of golf. You know,
what an amazing athlete to to help bring more people
into the sport.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So that leads us into obviously Bryson's doing a lot
of stuff you mentioned as you tube channel in twenty
twenty five, the rise of the influencers in all marketing
aspects of it, but sports, but specifically right now, I mean,
there seems to be a lot of push from an
influencer standpoint, and you know, the balance of all of
(35:47):
that for someone like me, I look at you know,
the influencer route and I look at some of I mean,
I'll be honest, I look at some of the numbers
and some of the contracts and some of the stuff
that they're giving to guys in the YouTube space, and
you know, men and women in the influencer space. You know, times, Bob,
it kind of pisses me off. I'm like, I've been
doing this for twenty or twenty five years of my life.
(36:10):
I've devoted every possible thing I have as a human
being to reach this level of success in my small
niche industry, in the golf industry from a golf instruction standpoint,
and there are people that have no no history in
what I've done, right, and they've got loads of followers
(36:32):
and they're bleinged into that space. How important is it?
Where do you think it's going to go? Do you
think it's going to swing back the other way? But
the influencer space from a brand side of things in
twenty twenty five, tuck me through it, And how important
is it for the grand scheme of things?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, it's really It's really important. I don't think it's
going to change. But I would say that the athlete
side is at the core of sport brands and is
the most important and I don't think I don't think
that will ever change. So, you know, as much as
we're going to talk about, you know, influencer piece growing,
(37:12):
I still think spot brands are really precious about the
role that the athlete plays and the core sport and
performance of what they do. That that isn't going to change.
But yeah, you can't deny that. Influencers, I think I
think two things, Claude. One is the wide audience that
(37:32):
they have, so their ability to talk to a much
larger net of people. And then two, when it comes
to the communication and you know this, you know, working
with athletes, influencers, this is their job, this is their crap.
They work at this communication stuff. That's what they do,
and they know how to do it. You know, a
(37:53):
lot of time, you know, brands, we're trying to pull
athletes into this communication game and try to coach them
a little media training and social you know, channels and
and those skills, whereas these these influencers that that's their thing.
And certainly the athlete understands the sport and the performance
(38:16):
piece of it, but these these influencers understand the communication
tools the best. And so yeah, they're bringing a different dynamic.
I think the perfect answers. You've got to have a blend.
You know, I think of whom a basketball and you know,
it's it's not a Halliburton and LaMelo as much as
(38:37):
it's also having like a Chris Brinkley, who's you know
black Ops in New York, who's got you know, Lebron
and Durant and AE coming through And what is that visibility?
No different than working with you Claude in You're you're
working with some of the top golfers and you know
your visibility out there that instruct during that coaching side
(39:01):
is a big influence you know across sports. And I
think you know that's that's the blend that you need
these days because you're constantly thinking, you know, eyeballs in
that audience and how do you expand that reach and
again go through and make a difference for the business.
And that includes you know, influencers.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I mean if someone told you twenty five years ago
that influencers this is what their role would be in
sports and social and this is the type of money
they're going to be able to make, would you have
would you have believed that?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
No? No chance. No, I mean to believe that there
would be you know, influence there and maybe a piece
of the action and could could move some people. Yeah sure,
but you know when that money dwarfs, you know what
someone's making, you know, on the course or through other endorsements.
(40:04):
I mean, it certainly is bigger than I think anyone
you know thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Where do you think it's going to go? How much
will AI play a part of this now? From a
brand standpoint? Will they be able to say, listen, we
can create an AI person to be an influencer that
we can control. We can control every element of it.
You think this is going to continue to evolve? You
(40:33):
think that there will be some maybe backlash against it
to where Because I'll be honest with you, when I
go to major championships, when I go to tour events
and stuff like that, there is an element of myself
and there is an element that I hear from the
players when we're on the range warming up. We're like,
all of these influencers are basically using a PGA tour event,
(40:57):
a major championship as a backdrop as a prop. Right.
That doesn't happen in the NFL, That doesn't happen in
the NBA hockey, Like, you're not going to go to
the Super Bowl and see influencers on the field warming up.
You might see them off the field, but in golf,
we see them using the sport as a backdrop for them,
(41:24):
and I find that really really weird at times. I
find it really kind of I kind of look at
it and just go, what are we doing? I'm not
to get off my lawn, guy. I just think that
there has to be a space for the athlete and
for what the athlete and their teams that are are
(41:44):
performing or doing, and then maybe there's a space for
the rest of it. I don't know. Maybe I'm old
school in the thinking, but it just always seems weird
to me in certain situations.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, I do think every sport has the culture around
the events that happens and people use that. I mean
the NBA All Star Game for sure. I mean, look
at what Formula one Vegas Formula one is now, you know.
I mean there are things you know that are around
the sport, and I mean NBA two K matters, FIFA
(42:16):
covers matter, like sports vetting and what is happening there
like that in the audience and how every game matters
and you know players that like all that that matters.
I do think one thing that is going to continue
to be a bigger trend is data and how data
is really driving brand investment. You know, you can now
(42:40):
get so close to that consumer. Are they into that
particular sport? Where do they live? You know you're thinking
about again a Hispanic consumer around you know, soccer as
fans of a certain team, and again where do they live?
You want to do a collab with you know, another brand,
(43:02):
you know before you sign that contract, is that going
to be you know, winning bet or not? So I
think you're going to see more investment into data driven
decisions versus kind of like not a guess or a
gut feel, but kind of that. You know, it's like
now you can really see some numbers, you can do
(43:23):
some early market research. Certainly the AI space is going
to be a lot based around that, and I just
think it's going to make it easier, more competitive, but
easier for brands to kind of make sure that there
are investments going in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Bob, as someone who's been in the brand space for
as long as you have, why do you feel like
sports resonates so much with people? And why do you
feel like sports is so important to us as human beings?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Oof, that's a big one, Claude. I think you know,
I always love what at Stack does. The thick sporting
goods around sports matter and that goes back to how
he grew up the value of sports and the life
lessons that are learned, you know, through sport, and I
think that's that's a big part of it. I think
there's such a natural connection, certainly in the US, how
(44:21):
people kind of are raised around sports, either as a
participant or as as a fan. So much of our
society is wrapped around sport. And then I think, you know,
as we talked earlier, disability for sport to bring people together.
I mean we always talk about it kind of around
Olympics and we talk around you know, every sport has
(44:41):
their signature, you know, events, and how how it brings
people together. I think that's very true. And so yeah,
there's something romantic about sports. I think. I do think
the life lesson thing is so important of what sports
teaches people, you know, about life, and certainly golf runs
deep in that regard, and so yeah, I think there's
(45:05):
a lot that goes into it. And you know, at
the end of the day, and you'll appreciate this. All
of our golfers that have been successful, Claude always talk
about they're at their best when they're having fun. And
when I think about over all the years of great
performances at Puma, whether that was Usain Bowl at the
Olympics and how he's dancing around before he's getting ready
(45:27):
to run those nine seconds, or it's Ricky before he
goes into a playoff for a back nine and Amaze,
it's like, let's go have fun. And that I think
that's part of the endearing piece of sports is it
goes back to that little kid and all of us
of just like having fun.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
So you've made you made the decision to move on
from your role at Puma. You're semi unemployed, I guess
right now. So you're probably getting to play more golf
than you've played in a long time. Bob, what do
you love about golf and what do you love about
the game of golf?
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Booh, I am getting some some more time to play.
I think I played more this summer than I have
since I've played in college. And it was great. And
you know, I love the camaraderie of it. You know,
you get with the right you know group. I just
I just love that competition, you know, with the gang
at the club as well as you know with myself,
(46:22):
you know, on the course. I love the challenge, you
know of golf. I love just the like outside, walk
in the park nature of golf. And then you know,
I'm a sports nut, so I like, you know, all
the competitive spirit stuff I really like, and golf gives
you that in space.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
So the obvious question is, at someone at your level
running Pome in North America, you know you're still a
young young man, why did decision to move on? And
what does kind of Bob Fillion two point zero post
kind of working for a huge you know, sports brand
like Puma looked like, you know, you were there for
(47:04):
a large chunk of your adult professional life. Why the
decision to change? And what are you looking to do
moving forward?
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, you know, I had an amazing ride twenty years
at the cat. Really these three chapters of this birth
of Puma Golf, you know, the acquisition at Cobra and
the setup of Cobra Puma Golf, and then the acceleration
of Puma North America, and I felt like it was
time to kind of pass the ball and pursue some
some new opportunities. So that's kind of what I'm doing now.
(47:38):
I'm writing a book something that was kind of been
a passion project that I've wanted to do for a while,
and it's a book for my kids. So it's career
advice stuff as my kids. You know, my son just
graduated college and my daughter is a junior, and so
I told them I would give them the best my
thirty years lessons learned, some some certainly the hard way
(47:59):
in past those along. So I'm kind of on the
clock flot. I got to get this this book done.
But it's yeah, so that's that's a passion project and
then you know, pursue some some new opportunities. And I
feel so blessed to have this this ride with Puma
where I had this sport, lifestyle and fashion connection. I
had this this kind of baby in the golf category
(48:24):
as as a piece of it, and then got a
chance to spread my wings broader. My two fashions as
a kid were basketball and golf, and I had a
chance to do them both, uh you know, with with
the cat and so yeah, I think it's whatever's next.
I think it's going to be around sports. I think
it's it's going to get my creative juices flowing and
have some purpose to it. And right now I'm busy
(48:47):
with this book man, and uh, and I'm gonna play
some fall golf here. I got a tournament on Saturday,
so I gotta I gotta get the toolbaught out again.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I have absolutely no doubt that you will not be retired,
you know, for a very long time. And I would
have been very surprised to see you not stay in
somewhat of the sports space, because I know it is
important and passionate to you. Lastly, above, for people like
yourself that run these big sporting brands, would you say
(49:22):
that most of them come from a sporting background and
how much do you feel like that helped?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
I was at the last live event. The new head
of Nike Golf was there and he'd come over from basketball,
and I couldn't believe how good a golf game was,
and he was like, no, No, I played golf, college golf.
You know. I played Division one college golf. So that
athlete first mentality. Do you find that people like yourself
that reached these kind of levels of job titles do
(49:54):
they come from the athlete space? Was athletics and competitive
athletics kind of part of their DNA? When you look
at your compatriots across the board over all the brands.
Is it fair to say that there is a sport
mentality coming from there a competitor athlete.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's a common denominator if you
look across management of the sport brands, I would say.
And so whether that's you know, playing or you know
a rabid fan, you know, certainly an understanding of sports.
Being able to talk about the sports and communicate around
the game is important. I do think it's becoming more
(50:35):
important to have balance on your team, so not have
you know, everyone certainly on your senior team come from
kind of the same place, and to have views actually
outside of sports. I mean we've seen it now with
some of the leagues, some of the teams, certainly some
of the brands that I've seen having people with different
(50:55):
points of view and some different experience. Certainly now you know,
whether it's the influencer space, uh, you know, the social side,
digital marketing, yeah, you name it. I mean a lot
of kind of traditional growing up through sports and playing,
you got to you gotta have a balance on your team,
and I think I think that's really important, and I
(51:17):
think sport brands are no different.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Well, Bob It's been really good to talk to you.
The best thing about you no longer running Big Puma
is I'm actually going to get to play golf with
you because obviously with your schedule, your schedule is as
crazy as mine. And let's get you down to the
Floridian South Florida, get you out of the cold and northeast,
work on your golf game and uh, let's get that
(51:41):
handicapped down. Come on.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
I need, I know, I need, I need some short
game help, bug, So I need some help for sure.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Lastly, for the viewers, what's the book going to be called?
Do we have a title for it? Yet?
Speaker 2 (51:52):
We do have a title, it's Turning Pro And it
really is this this? Yeah, I mean you and I
are in the sports business like people athletes turning pro
all the time. But you know, every day you got
we got these graduates, you know, coming out of college
and turning pro. And my son just did it. He's
now working in Silicon Valley and to see through his
(52:13):
eyes what these kids are coming out of college and
learning content wise in terms of their majors. But that
gap between all the other stuff mentorship and work life
balance and international experience and champion teams and not just
finding a job, of finding you know, job with the
(52:34):
right company, with the right coaches and managers and those
kind of things. So that's what I'm trying to do
is kind of bridge that gap. So turning pro and
again I got it. I got to get it done.
It's not a book until you actually do it well.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
I mean, if you've given everybody the title, they're gonna
want to we need sale. So you better get to
us and shape and get that thing out. Bob, great
to talk to you. Best of luck and all your
new endeavors, and thanks for all the friendship and the
mentorship over the years. It really was special getting to
spend time with you, and it really did have a
massive impact on me, not only personally, but professionally as well.
(53:09):
So I thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Thanks Claud great to see you and we'll see you
down in Florida. Some golf lessons, you got it.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
So that was Bob Fillion, really cool talk and we
touched on a lot of really cool stuff and that
kind of merging that sports culture. But the golf space
for me is where a lot of that happens. And
it's funny all of the golfers want to be football, basketball, baseball, hockey,
soccer players, Formula One drivers, and all of those people
(53:38):
want to be professional golfers. So always really cool to
talk to someone like Bob who has such a rich
history on both sides of the sport, the marketing side
and the brand side, but also on the competitive side.
So thanks to Bob for talking to us. Son of
a Butch comes to you almost every week, but we
will definitely be back next week.
It's the Son of a Butch podcast. I'm your host,
Claude Harmon this week's guest. I'm always trying to figure
out different ways to kind of bring people in the
golf space and outside of the golf space into the conversation.
Bob Phillion, over twenty years at Puma, was one of
the He was the first employee at Puma Golf, and obviously,
given the big brands landscape, I mean obviously all of
(00:24):
the brands that sponsor athletes, they're such a huge part
of sports culture. And Bob has chosen to move on
from his role as head of Puma North America. But
he's a friend, a mentor, and someone that I really
really enjoy talking to. And it's a really good conversation
talking about golf, talking about the brand space, and kind
(00:46):
of talking about all of the things that go into
sports marketing. This is Bob Phillion. My guest today is
Bob Filian. He spent twenty years at Puma. Bob, you
were the first one in the door to start Puma
Golf employee number one. You've moved on from your role.
We'll get to all the stuff that you're doing kind
(01:07):
of post working for Puma. But when you go back
to those early days of you and the brand starting
Puma Golf, I mean, obviously you're taking on some of
the big players in golf, obviously Nike with Tiger Woods
and their sponsorship ADI Das and all of that. What
was the original impetus for Puma to get into the
golf space and the golf space in general. Where do
(01:32):
you feel like that fits in kind of the rest
of the other sports that all of these big, massive,
you know, sports companies have.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, So I think there was a couple of things
happening when Puma got into golf. So this was two
thousand and six, so going back a bit, and one
was the brand was heating up, so Puma was trending globally,
and there was a fashion ability happening in golf and
(02:02):
call it you more fit golfers, a little bit of
European fashion coming into the game, and it felt like
an opportunity for Puma to reach a new audience and
expand into a new sport and quite frankly, get stronger
in the US marketplace because Puma wasn't in American football
(02:23):
basketball to any large extent, you know, in hockey and baseball,
and so golf was kind of seen as a way
to reach a broader audience and with this fashion ability,
bring some of its European roots, you know, into the sport.
The other thing, as you know, that was happening and
golf is that broader sport brands were getting into the game.
(02:46):
You mentioned Nike and Adidas, and so it wasn't such
a kind of niche sport with golf specialty only brands
being involved, and I think that kind of paved the
way for Puma to get into to the sport. What
started as kind of more of a sport lifestyle play
(03:06):
became you know, really more deeply rooted in sport because
we got off to a fast start with golf courses
and pros and that really kind of paid the way
for what would lead to, you know, the Cobra acquisition
and getting deeper in the sport.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And obviously, if you're going to make a big push
into a I mean a lot of people that I mean,
everybody that listens to this podcast is obviously listening because
they're golfers. And when you're inside of golf, you and
I have talked about this a lot. When you're a
golfer and you're in golf. You think golf is a big,
big sport. But you know, from a macro side of things,
(03:44):
if you look at all of the brands, but specifically
for a brand like Puma, if you look at their
football slash soccer, their you're saying Bolt, their track and field.
I mean, golf is a very very small brand. So
I think it was really interesting that, you know, if
you look at the early days, I don't think you
can discount, you know, the partnership that you guys created
with Ricky Fowler, because I think Ricky was so closely
(04:07):
Bob associated with Puma. I mean, you couldn't really think
about Ricky without thinking about Puma Golf, and you couldn't
think about Palumac Golf Puma Golf without thinking about Ricky.
Was that something that you actively thought of? And on
the wider scope, Bob, how do you guys in the
brand side find these athletes that you want to partner with?
(04:28):
What are you looking for When you looked at Ricky
Fowler and he was early on in his career, I
mean it was very very early days. So Booma Golf
kind of grew with Ricky as Ricky kind of grew
as a professional athlete and as a professional golfer. That
that synergy in that partnership. What did you guys see
in Ricky early on and why did you choose him
(04:50):
and why do you think it was such a great fit.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, so a lot in there, claud I think going
back to the first point. You know, golf, to your
point is is small in the scheme of you know,
the broader brand. So there's a lot of sports that
are bigger than golf, but we say it has a
high kind of shake up factor. I mean, you know,
there's a lot of sports where you have jersey deals
and it's hard to really cut through. And in golf,
(05:15):
you know, with someone like Ricky, we're able to have
one guy on the fairways at august In all orange
with at one time an orange driver and really really
shake things up and cut through. And so, you know,
golf ultimately was a little under ten percent of total
business to give you an idea of some scale, but
(05:36):
very important from a visibility perspective, because certainly golf peaks
in the you know, popular culture calendar, you know, several
times a year, and certainly in the springtime, you know,
around Augusta for sure. I think specific to Ricky and
ambassadors in general, you're really looking for two things. One
is world class performance. I think you know, at the
(05:59):
end of the day, ambassadors are about visibility and the
ability to to get eyeballs and that comes with being
a great athlete. And you know, now even broader than well,
I'm sure we'll talk about influencers just getting eyeballs. So
I think that's one one part of it. I think
we're at Puma we always tried to stand out. Is
(06:23):
that it factor having a swagger, an attitude, something else,
some some kind of a hook back to you know,
whether it was Pele or Diego Maradona or Joe Namath
or Reggie Jackson. I mean you name like some you know,
the historic ambassadors for for PUMO, Clyde Frazier, I mean,
(06:44):
really world class performance fused with this this swagger and
and and a hook. Ricky had that in space, you know,
I think coming with a motocross you know, background, he
certainly looked different. I think the flat brim had, you know,
set him apart. I think the way that he wanted
to wear color and be bold, and we certainly partnered
(07:05):
with him on that entire journey, and you're right, as
he kind of grew, we grew with him as our
business because what started as a very small business and
trying to cut through and just get some eyeballs really
started getting much deeper as a bigger business as he
kind of matured his own game and kind of grew
(07:25):
his look. You know that that helped our business, you know,
along the way. And so I think it's always looking
across sports, and you know, whether it's Formula one, you know, basketball,
even entertainment and Rihanna and Selena and all these ambassadors
over the years, it still comes down to being great
at what you do and then having something else that
(07:49):
could cut through the clutter and make a difference for
the business.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
How is the golf customer different, Bob, than so the
golf demographic that the companies are trying to go after
all of the club manufacturers, the clothing manufacturers across the
board in the golf space. How is that for someone
like yourself that started at Puma Golf. Then you had
that second phase of your career when Cobra was acquired
(08:14):
from Titleists. So then Puma all of a sudden had
a club components you had Cobra Puma Golf, you stayed there,
you grew that, and then you went on to run
Puma North America, which those of us in the Puma space,
that's big Puma, right, that's all of the sports, right.
How is the golf customer different and what is that
(08:35):
golf customer looking for? That is different from someone that's
buying a basketball sneaker, that's buying something from another sport,
because I think it's very it's very niche. But from
the brand side of it, as someone that's trying to
sell to these people, how is the golf customer different
and why is the golf customer important to these big brands?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, well, I think going back to one of the
last points, it is a smaller group. So I always
use the analogy of going through the airport and out
of ten consumers, you know, maybe one of those is
a target golf consumer, right, and we're trying to sell
cob Puma golf to them. And so you know, as
you broaden out and you have all the categories and
(09:19):
you work in things like hoodies and T shirts and
slides and whatever, ten out of ten are you know,
ultimately your consumer. But that golf consumer is important in
a couple different ways. One is, retail prices in golf
are certainly higher than any other category and in some
cases three four times that. So you have you know,
(09:40):
a higher ticket in golf and a more aspirational, you know,
customer that has has more money quite frankly, to spend
you know, on their on their products. And so that
ability to have you know, clubs together are with footwear,
(10:01):
apparel and accessories was super important to like outfit the
entire you know, golf shop and be able to service
you know, golfers at all skill level.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
When you said, I mean, if we hear that term
right in marketing aspirational for you guys on the brand side,
what does an what does an aspirational customer mean? And
how is that different than someone that watches the NBA
or watches the NFL and watches other sports that aren't
necessarily kind of a niche sport like golf.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, I think you know, if you think of about
the diehard golfer, you know, they consume a lot of products.
And again going back to you know, retail prices, you know,
it's an expensive sport and so when you have that
kind of consumption. You know that those are lucrative consumers,
those diehard golfers that are you know, shopping a new
driver you know every year, irons every you know, a
(10:52):
couple of years, certainly, you know, shoes you know a
couple of times a year, and a new closet full
of you know, polos. You know that that is high
purchase and so that that certainly is different than you know,
some other sports where you're buying, you know, paired to
of either soccer fleats or basketball shoes or you know,
(11:14):
something like that.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
A couple of years ago, right before the pandemic, I
got to go over to Puma headquarters and they had
their big kind of Puma three sixty. Jay Z was there,
Total Wolf from Mercedes F one was there. A lot
of the athletes were there. And you know, when I
look at golf and I look at all of the
people that I've met, Bob of the course of my
lifetime and in the sport of golf, it's amazing how
(11:37):
many people that I have met in the wider sports world,
the fashion world, the music world. And although golf at
times can can be a small market, I kind of
think it's a meeting point for a lot of other
people because it is something that other athletes are driven towards.
People in the music space, the fashion space. Why do
(11:58):
you think golf has allure to these other people? Because
I get really amped up when I meet musicians and
people in sports, but athletes, musicians, actors, they're just golf obsessed.
Why do you think so many people outside of the
core golf space that are other athletes and stuff, why
(12:21):
do you think they're so interested in the game of golf.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Well, I think there's two things. You know, you have this.
I guess the superstars in sports they use golf as
kind of their getaway that they can go to a
golf course and not be bombarded with people and you know,
paparazzi and autograph seekers and whatnot. So it's almost like
their escape. So I think that is one. You know,
(12:44):
it's a competitive sport and they're able to do that
with their friends and stay active, and it really is
kind of a getaway. I think the other thing, and
it's kind of counter to that, is when golf is
this amazing connector of people and so, you know, you
and I have been fortunate to be around a lot
(13:05):
of different events that bring you know, people together, so
you know, it's kind of two different worlds. You got
these people that want to get away and then you
have this other side of golf that brings people together.
And there's a business side of that of course, but
you know, a community building a component of it, and
you know at a golf event you can have hundreds
and hundreds of people, right. So I've always felt like
(13:28):
golf is this for that is very inclusive, and yeah,
it has this natural element to it that you know,
brings people together.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You mentioned that Kuma Golf kind of started in two
thousand and six, but when I look at the modern
kind of modern golf, to me, that is kind of
post Tiger Wood, so ninety seven onwards in my opinion, Bob,
I Man, I'm fifty six now. I never played golf
growing off. You know, when I my dad obviously being
(14:01):
golf and my entire family being into golf. But when
I was growing up, I was born in you know,
the in nineteen sixty nine, golf was not cool, right,
I mean, it was old men, the clothes were weird.
There wasn't an athletic part of it at all. And
so when I look at the modern game, of golf.
To me, Tiger Woods is kind of what was the
(14:22):
tipping point that kind of moved us into the modern
golf era when you look at kind of when Cobra,
Puma and Puma Golf started the marketing aspect of that
in the last twenty years, Bob, how is the marketing
aspect of a change, because it seems like it's changing,
you know, almost on a weekly, monthly basis, and now
(14:44):
with social media with all of these influencers, and then
if you look at the rise of how the television
product has changed, how and where we as consumers consume
our media, where we consume our sports. Are you surprised
it kind of how it's gone and and has it
(15:04):
been a constant evolution for you guys on the brand
side to try and keep up with all of these
trends and changes.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's it's changed, uh, you know
in huge ways from that traditional Hey, find an ambassador
that is has that world class performance and then market
the hell out of them to all the different ways
that people can get eyeballs now. And you know, you
(15:33):
look at some of the trends now, you know, take
basketball for example, that tunnel walk is so important that
tunnel walk and who's sitting court side sometimes is as important,
if not more, depending on the game than the points
and the rebounds that you're getting on the court, right
and so, and you know multiply that across you know sports,
of what are those influences? You certainly have the nil
(15:55):
space that is is trend changing things dramatically. I would
I would also put in collaborations in there. So it's
not just having an athlete, But how do you have
an athlete, you know, a Ricky with a Caigo and
the music scene and a Palm Tree crew and then
plan events you know around that, right, you know, how
(16:17):
do you know, work with Rihanna, but you're planning you know,
super Bowls and music and her dancers and like everything.
You know. It's it's the rich storytelling that is happening
now is just off the charts. I mean, it's not
a launch with LaMelo anymore. It's Lamello who liked Rick
and Morty And that shoe is coming out and what
(16:39):
is that car that he's going to drive to the
game the day that you know you're going to launch
that those kind of things. I would say that that's
probably the biggest thing is the multitude of angles to
get visibility that has evolved over time, and the really
rich storytelling that goes, you know, across that that planning.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
We talked about this. Jay Z came to Puma and
said he wanted to help you guys get into the
basketball space. And you told me that obviously when someone
like jay Z, who is a I mean, I mean
I was in Germany and jay Z walked into the
room and it was like all the air got sucked
out of the room. And I'm you know, I've been
around a lot of famous people. I've met a lot
(17:22):
of crazy people. I'm standing ten feet away from jay
Z and I'm like, and that's that's jay Z. I
mean it was I got to meet him. I got
to shake his hand and talk to him for about
ten minutes. One of the coolest things I've ever done.
But you told me about that first meeting when when
when he decided and you guys decided you were going
to meet with him. You said, the meeting with jay
(17:44):
Z and his team was like meeting with fortune. Five
hundred CEOs, the rise of the athlete entertainer as a business,
I mean forty fifty years ago, you probably wouldn't imagine
that athletes and musicians and people in that space, the
(18:05):
performance space could also basically be their own brand and
be these like CEO type characters. That experience you guys
had with jay Z was that really eye opening for you?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, in a big way. And I would say that
basketball and maybe the collision with music set a lot
of those trends because you had people that were just
passionate about the game of basketball and got involved. And
so yeah, when we had the opportunity to work with
him to kind of relaunch Puma Basketball because Puma was
(18:40):
you know in the category and again back into the
seventies around Clyde, but really twenty eighteen, you know, relaunch
and get back into the category and do it from
a disruptive way, no different than how we entered golf,
you know, doing it differently, and I think she gave
us that avenue to do that through the lens of
(19:04):
music and culture, not just signature athlete and yeah, being
you know, very disruptive with the go to market plans.
He's all about you know, authenticity, staying true to the
brand and the roots of the brand, and you know,
(19:24):
growing slow and making sure that you're developing desirability along
the way and creating brand heat.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
But when you partner with an athlete like Ricky and
we see this in basketball as well, that all the
brands through, but Puma does this as well. But you're
going to try and give that that athlete and that
player and identity. And you know, with Ricky, you guys
kind of let him kind of design kind of how
that collaboration between the brand side and the athlete side.
(19:53):
Talk me through what that collaboration looks like. You go
to an athlete, you say, okay, listen, we want to
kind of build a line around you. We kind of
want to build a shoe around you from your side
and from the athlete side of it, or from the
entertainment side, the stuff that who moves on with Beyon,
you know with the weekends all that kind of stuff.
When you guys kind of go through that process, is
(20:17):
it a sit down between you say, listen, give me
some ideas of what you want to try and do,
and they kind of and it's a just kind of
a meat in the middle type thing.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It really is a collaboration. The best ones are when
both sides have ideas and you know, as as the brand,
we would always try to get, you know, from the
ambassador their ideas first, because if we shape it with
what we're thinking, that can kind of you know, cloud
(20:49):
the field a little bit. So I think it is
so important to have an ambassador that's passionate about something
and really get what's exciting to them, because we know
that that's going to matter when it comes to again
go to market plans and the promotion and the pushing
of the product. And so yeah, the best meetings are, hey,
what what are you thinking? What do you think there's
(21:09):
a gap in the market, What excites you? What do
you get inspired by? And then of course, you know,
as a brand, we've got either new technologies coming out,
there's a business need, you have launch dates and calendars
to fill, and product plans and architecture and so yeah,
the perfect balance is you're getting someone like Ricky that's like, hey,
(21:30):
I still want to wear orange pants at Oklahoma State.
You know, Oklahoma State's really important to me. By the way,
could you make an orange shirt and an orange hat
and an orange shoes. And then we get into like
stylizing that and what is that going to look like?
And again, if it's important to him, it's important to
the brands, and then it's like, yeah, how can we
bring this to life? And then let's brainstorm of how
(21:53):
you know, we could launch certain things, and so yeah,
it's it really is this. Yeah, I'm sure collaboration gets
used over and over, but the best ones are when
you know, both sides come to the table with creative
ideas that are important to them and then you know,
making it work.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
And how important with those collaborations when you're going to
give an athlete to shoe or give an athlete a line,
how important is it from a scalability standpoint but also
from a profitability standpoint for that to be authentic to
the athlete or to the performer that you're trying to
(22:35):
get into.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I think it's everything. And I think gone are the
day's claud of you know, slapping a person's name or
a logo on product that's not authentic, you know. I
think I think the bullshit meter is run and high
with consumers these days. I think they can sniff it
out very quickly if it's you know, just a business transaction.
(22:58):
So I think I think that's why Kuma has gone
deeper with the storytelling as well as you know, getting
creative directors and designers, like whether it was Selina or
Rihanno or jay Z, you know, people that can get
more involved in just you know, signing a contract and
launching you know, product, because I really do think it's everything.
(23:21):
I think not only does it create a better stream
for the product to get poured out of, but I
also think it really helps the sale and the promotion
because if the ambassador is really behind it. You know,
if Breonna Stewart's you know, her launch of her second shoe,
that first colorway was ruby for her daughter, and you
(23:43):
can imagine, you know, all the launch opportunities around that,
but how important that was for her that that product
was going to be successful and get seen. You know
that that stuff is everything.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
When you were ahead of Puma North America. How much
competition do these big brands have with each other? I mean,
obviously you know in the US, you know, from a
big shoe standpoint, you've got Nike, you've got Adidas, you've
got Puma, you've got under Arm and stuff. The competition
between the brands to get the right athletes, to get
(24:17):
the right messaging across how much is that real And
how much is someone you know during your time running
you know Broom in North America? How much do you
feel that competition between the other you know, brands. We
feel it in the athlete space, right there's competition. Yes,
we all I mean most golfers pretty much get along
(24:38):
and have respect for each other, but they all want
to beat each other, you know when they're playing. You know,
and from a brand standpoint, is there that sense of
competition and that sense of rivalry that you have with
the other brands where you're trying to make sure that yeah,
I mean, hey, I like you. I think you're a
nice person, but we want to beat what you guys
are doing.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That's exactly it. It's fierce and it's brutal. And I
would say it's not just on the athlete side. I
think it's every price point. I think it's every category,
it's every employee, it's every media deal, it's it's yeah,
you name it. I think it's very fierce and competition
is is gotten stiff. You know, every brand is trying
(25:21):
to find their you know, niches that they've got more runway.
Take Formula one for Puma, for example. You know, not
a place where some others play and so you know,
same same thing you know in golf. I think it
was trying to fuse this fashion and lifestyle into sport
and find a laye there that wasn't you know, as crowded.
(25:44):
But yeah, I mean it's it's fierce. And again it's
not just the athlete. I think it's it's every aspect
of the business and it is it is felt daily,
no doubt.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
So at all of the majors. From a golf standpoint.
I don't think people listening understand or realize how much
scripting of the big golf the big golf players, you know,
the superstars that are closely aligned with their brands, right.
I mean, if you look at Roy mclroy, Rory's been
(26:17):
with Nike for a very long time, Scotti Scheffler's with Nike,
DJ was with you know, from a clothing side, you
know of things, he was with Adidas forever, and then Ricky.
So talk to me and let the listeners know that
concept of Okay, twenty twenty six is going to be
you know, the Masters twenty twenty six is kind of
(26:39):
the first of the majors. So give everybody kind of
an insight as to what is going on behind the
scenes with regards to looking already you know, I mean
if you look back at your career, I mean we're
in October now, you guys pretty much already know what
Ricky Fowler is going to be wearing at the Mass
(27:00):
in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
That's right. Yeah, you're you're working about a year out
in advance, and then when it comes down to scripting,
you can get a little closer than that. Certainly the
first half of the year you kind of know the
majors and the big tournaments, and I would say, Claude,
there's there's really three buckets how scripting works. The best
thing for a brand and for a lot of the
(27:25):
I'd say Superstar athletes is one hundred percent scripting. So
it is it is getting ahead of it, knowing exactly
what they're going to wear, putting together the outfits, which
even before product is actually made, starts on storyboards with
you know, cad drawings of you know what that that
would be, and working with the athlete on hey, why
(27:45):
don't we, you know, do this camo thing on this Thursday,
And why don't we do some metallic stories on Friday?
So on and so forth. So it's building that script
and then when it gets down to the tournament, that's
in the closets and you know, you've got a sport
marketing team that is is lining that stuff up that
week and it's literally trying to eliminate that from their
(28:08):
thought process and letting them just concentrate on their performance
and everything's ready to go. So that being a brand guy,
that's the ideal because you've got all your marketing, the
gun is loaded, you know exactly what's happening, You've done
the pr you know, you know what that Saturday is
going to look like, you know, come TV time. Then
I would say there's another bucket that's kind of a
(28:29):
softer version of that. Yeah, you've got some scripting, but
the player wants some flexibility on how they're feeling that
day if they want to, you know, go off script
and wear something else. I mean, as a brand guy, again,
that's a little bit. If it's a major, that's a problem.
If it's you know, it's a tournament, but below the major,
it's a different story. But you know a lot of
(28:51):
a lot of really good players want you know a
little bit of flexibility in that they understand, hey, this
is a model of foot where you're trying to push
and so I get that, but you know, some flexibility.
And then the third bucket, again as a brand guy,
is the worst bucket, which is players like, yeah, just
send me my stuff and I'll put it together, and
(29:12):
that that's a challenge. Now you have some that you
know their their better halves, are very good at it
and can put it together and everyone's happy. But you
know that that first camp of knowing ahead what the
player is going to wear, so that you can really
take advantage of the upfront marketing and the selling propositions
(29:32):
so that the store is able and our retailers are
able to maximize. That is certainly the way we draw
it up.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
From a golf standpoint, Bob, would you would it be
fair to say that the players that kind of have
their own specific style and kind of have their own
specific book regardless of what brand they're with, does that
go inside with their interest in clothing and how they're
good example for me is someone like Adam Scott. Like
(30:02):
Scutty's always looked very very specific on the golf course.
Started his career, believe it or not, at Jay Lindeberg,
then he went to Aquascutum, then he went to Berbury
and then he went to Uniclo. But Adam has a
very very specific look with the way he looks at Uniclo.
But Adam really does care about the way he looks
(30:23):
both on and off the golf course. How hard is
it for the brands to work with someone from a
clothing side that doesn't really care, that isn't really interested
in fashion, that just wears, you know, I mean if
you look at Tiger Woods off the golf course, Tiger,
I mean, it's pretty much almost one hundred percent. If
Tiger isn't at a function where someone else is dressing him,
(30:47):
Tiger is going to be wearing Nike shorts, black shorts
and a white long sleeve hoodie or that's kind of
his uniform, right.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
If you look at Adam Scott or someone who's into
fashion away from the golf course, they have their own look.
Like when I go out and go to like parties
and stuff like that, you can tell the guys that
care about clothing. You can tell the guys that are
just going to go buy the most expensive art. You're like, oh,
so you're the guy with the Gucci baseball hat. Great,
(31:16):
good job, you know. Yeah, you're the one that bought
that outfit too. I think going back to that authenticity,
it must work better for you guys on the brand
side from a clothing and fashion standpoint if the athlete
is into that as well.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Totally, totally, and it goes back to, you know, the
scouting and who's coming on board is you know, certainly
Puma's position. We wanted players that had a point of
view on it and and in fact different points of view.
You know. It wasn't you know when we signed Bryson,
he didn't want to be like Ricky. You know, none
of the players after Ricky wanted to look like Ricky. Right,
(31:53):
he had his own lane and was rocking his stuff,
and so you know, Bryson kind of played more of
this classic lane where Ricky was kind of doing the
progressive thing. And then then as things kind of evolved,
you kind of evolved with the player in their taste.
You know, take a Gary Woodland for example, so passionate
about folds of Honor, giving back the volition America. I mean,
(32:15):
what a perfect fit for him. Yeah, and it's like
that's what he was about. He was so passionate about it,
and it's like, next thing, you know, we've got a collection,
you know that he can wear. That also gave him
a lane that was different than you know, the other
players you know that we had. You know, Lexi wanted
to wear her you know, light blue kind of Sundays
(32:38):
and you know, was passionate about certain pieces and certain looks.
Same thing. So yeah, it starts kind of like who
comes to the brand, but then working with them and
you're right, it's got to be kind of authentic and
kind of organic to them. That's that's when it works best.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
You mentioned Bryson Deshambeau. You guys kind of gave Bryson
is starting not only with who from a clothing side,
but also Cobra from the club side. How many years
was he with the brand?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Six years? Yes, six years until live game and obviously
those contracts yeah, I mean those players are signing signing
would live. So yeah, six years from that time at
SMU till still live.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So when you look at Bryson and you look at
the kind of the arc of his trajectory, not only
as an athlete but as a person, I'm gonna go
on a limb here and think and say, you've got
to look at Bryson in twenty twenty five and think, man,
it would have been a lot of fun to have
Bryson be the kind of person he's become off the
(33:43):
golf course in the social space also socially as a person. Yeah,
that evolution of Bryson, it's been very very interesting to
watch that, and it's been kind of cool to watch
that kind of him completely almost do a one eighty
on people feeling differently about it.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I think, what a fascinating ride,
not just kind of our six years, but to see
I guess his what nine maybe ten now as a
professional and you know, thinking about early on and again
back to world class performance, you know, he was doing
things that only a few players had done as an amateur, right,
(34:25):
and so we knew that he was a great player
and going to do great things, but he also had
kind of some hit factory. He had some different things, right,
not just his look and even down to you know,
Ben Hogan's hat, but it was also one length and
then obviously he went the distance route and what that
you know, brought to the brands in terms of visibility
(34:48):
and distance and everything, and then certainly to see that
you know, last few years and that shift in what
he's done, and as every athlete does, you know, grows
up with you know, the business and then everything he's
doing off the course now too. You know, what a
great story, what a what a great ambassador for the game,
(35:09):
you know, of golf. And when you think of the audience,
you know, take his YouTube stuff, Now, how many people
he's touching with this great game of golf. You know,
what an amazing athlete to to help bring more people
into the sport.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So that leads us into obviously Bryson's doing a lot
of stuff you mentioned as you tube channel in twenty
twenty five, the rise of the influencers in all marketing
aspects of it, but sports, but specifically right now, I mean,
there seems to be a lot of push from an
influencer standpoint, and you know, the balance of all of
(35:47):
that for someone like me, I look at you know,
the influencer route and I look at some of I mean,
I'll be honest, I look at some of the numbers
and some of the contracts and some of the stuff
that they're giving to guys in the YouTube space, and
you know, men and women in the influencer space. You know, times, Bob,
it kind of pisses me off. I'm like, I've been
doing this for twenty or twenty five years of my life.
(36:10):
I've devoted every possible thing I have as a human
being to reach this level of success in my small
niche industry, in the golf industry from a golf instruction standpoint,
and there are people that have no no history in
what I've done, right, and they've got loads of followers
(36:32):
and they're bleinged into that space. How important is it?
Where do you think it's going to go? Do you
think it's going to swing back the other way? But
the influencer space from a brand side of things in
twenty twenty five, tuck me through it, And how important
is it for the grand scheme of things?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, it's really It's really important. I don't think it's
going to change. But I would say that the athlete
side is at the core of sport brands and is
the most important and I don't think I don't think
that will ever change. So, you know, as much as
we're going to talk about, you know, influencer piece growing,
(37:12):
I still think spot brands are really precious about the
role that the athlete plays and the core sport and
performance of what they do. That that isn't going to change.
But yeah, you can't deny that. Influencers, I think I
think two things, Claude. One is the wide audience that
(37:32):
they have, so their ability to talk to a much
larger net of people. And then two, when it comes
to the communication and you know this, you know, working
with athletes, influencers, this is their job, this is their crap.
They work at this communication stuff. That's what they do,
and they know how to do it. You know, a
(37:53):
lot of time, you know, brands, we're trying to pull
athletes into this communication game and try to coach them
a little media training and social you know, channels and
and those skills, whereas these these influencers that that's their thing.
And certainly the athlete understands the sport and the performance
(38:16):
piece of it, but these these influencers understand the communication
tools the best. And so yeah, they're bringing a different dynamic.
I think the perfect answers. You've got to have a blend.
You know, I think of whom a basketball and you know,
it's it's not a Halliburton and LaMelo as much as
(38:37):
it's also having like a Chris Brinkley, who's you know
black Ops in New York, who's got you know, Lebron
and Durant and AE coming through And what is that visibility?
No different than working with you Claude in You're you're
working with some of the top golfers and you know
your visibility out there that instruct during that coaching side
(39:01):
is a big influence you know across sports. And I
think you know that's that's the blend that you need
these days because you're constantly thinking, you know, eyeballs in
that audience and how do you expand that reach and
again go through and make a difference for the business.
And that includes you know, influencers.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I mean if someone told you twenty five years ago
that influencers this is what their role would be in
sports and social and this is the type of money
they're going to be able to make, would you have
would you have believed that?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
No? No chance. No, I mean to believe that there
would be you know, influence there and maybe a piece
of the action and could could move some people. Yeah sure,
but you know when that money dwarfs, you know what
someone's making, you know, on the course or through other endorsements.
(40:04):
I mean, it certainly is bigger than I think anyone
you know thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Where do you think it's going to go? How much
will AI play a part of this now? From a
brand standpoint? Will they be able to say, listen, we
can create an AI person to be an influencer that
we can control. We can control every element of it.
You think this is going to continue to evolve? You
(40:33):
think that there will be some maybe backlash against it
to where Because I'll be honest with you, when I
go to major championships, when I go to tour events
and stuff like that, there is an element of myself
and there is an element that I hear from the
players when we're on the range warming up. We're like,
all of these influencers are basically using a PGA tour event,
(40:57):
a major championship as a backdrop as a prop. Right.
That doesn't happen in the NFL, That doesn't happen in
the NBA hockey, Like, you're not going to go to
the Super Bowl and see influencers on the field warming up.
You might see them off the field, but in golf,
we see them using the sport as a backdrop for them,
(41:24):
and I find that really really weird at times. I
find it really kind of I kind of look at
it and just go, what are we doing? I'm not
to get off my lawn, guy. I just think that
there has to be a space for the athlete and
for what the athlete and their teams that are are
(41:44):
performing or doing, and then maybe there's a space for
the rest of it. I don't know. Maybe I'm old
school in the thinking, but it just always seems weird
to me in certain situations.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, I do think every sport has the culture around
the events that happens and people use that. I mean
the NBA All Star Game for sure. I mean, look
at what Formula one Vegas Formula one is now, you know.
I mean there are things you know that are around
the sport, and I mean NBA two K matters, FIFA
(42:16):
covers matter, like sports vetting and what is happening there
like that in the audience and how every game matters
and you know players that like all that that matters.
I do think one thing that is going to continue
to be a bigger trend is data and how data
is really driving brand investment. You know, you can now
(42:40):
get so close to that consumer. Are they into that
particular sport? Where do they live? You know you're thinking
about again a Hispanic consumer around you know, soccer as
fans of a certain team, and again where do they live?
You want to do a collab with you know, another brand,
(43:02):
you know before you sign that contract, is that going
to be you know, winning bet or not? So I
think you're going to see more investment into data driven
decisions versus kind of like not a guess or a
gut feel, but kind of that. You know, it's like
now you can really see some numbers, you can do
(43:23):
some early market research. Certainly the AI space is going
to be a lot based around that, and I just
think it's going to make it easier, more competitive, but
easier for brands to kind of make sure that there
are investments going in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Bob, as someone who's been in the brand space for
as long as you have, why do you feel like
sports resonates so much with people? And why do you
feel like sports is so important to us as human beings?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Oof, that's a big one, Claude. I think you know,
I always love what at Stack does. The thick sporting
goods around sports matter and that goes back to how
he grew up the value of sports and the life
lessons that are learned, you know, through sport, and I
think that's that's a big part of it. I think
there's such a natural connection, certainly in the US, how
(44:21):
people kind of are raised around sports, either as a
participant or as as a fan. So much of our
society is wrapped around sport. And then I think, you know,
as we talked earlier, disability for sport to bring people together.
I mean we always talk about it kind of around
Olympics and we talk around you know, every sport has
(44:41):
their signature, you know, events, and how how it brings
people together. I think that's very true. And so yeah,
there's something romantic about sports. I think. I do think
the life lesson thing is so important of what sports
teaches people, you know, about life, and certainly golf runs
deep in that regard, and so yeah, I think there's
(45:05):
a lot that goes into it. And you know, at
the end of the day, and you'll appreciate this. All
of our golfers that have been successful, Claude always talk
about they're at their best when they're having fun. And
when I think about over all the years of great
performances at Puma, whether that was Usain Bowl at the
Olympics and how he's dancing around before he's getting ready
(45:27):
to run those nine seconds, or it's Ricky before he
goes into a playoff for a back nine and Amaze,
it's like, let's go have fun. And that I think
that's part of the endearing piece of sports is it
goes back to that little kid and all of us
of just like having fun.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
So you've made you made the decision to move on
from your role at Puma. You're semi unemployed, I guess
right now. So you're probably getting to play more golf
than you've played in a long time. Bob, what do
you love about golf and what do you love about
the game of golf?
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Booh, I am getting some some more time to play.
I think I played more this summer than I have
since I've played in college. And it was great. And
you know, I love the camaraderie of it. You know,
you get with the right you know group. I just
I just love that competition, you know, with the gang
at the club as well as you know with myself,
(46:22):
you know, on the course. I love the challenge, you
know of golf. I love just the like outside, walk
in the park nature of golf. And then you know,
I'm a sports nut, so I like, you know, all
the competitive spirit stuff I really like, and golf gives
you that in space.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
So the obvious question is, at someone at your level
running Pome in North America, you know you're still a
young young man, why did decision to move on? And
what does kind of Bob Fillion two point zero post
kind of working for a huge you know, sports brand
like Puma looked like, you know, you were there for
(47:04):
a large chunk of your adult professional life. Why the
decision to change? And what are you looking to do
moving forward?
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, you know, I had an amazing ride twenty years
at the cat. Really these three chapters of this birth
of Puma Golf, you know, the acquisition at Cobra and
the setup of Cobra Puma Golf, and then the acceleration
of Puma North America, and I felt like it was
time to kind of pass the ball and pursue some
some new opportunities. So that's kind of what I'm doing now.
(47:38):
I'm writing a book something that was kind of been
a passion project that I've wanted to do for a while,
and it's a book for my kids. So it's career
advice stuff as my kids. You know, my son just
graduated college and my daughter is a junior, and so
I told them I would give them the best my
thirty years lessons learned, some some certainly the hard way
(47:59):
in past those along. So I'm kind of on the
clock flot. I got to get this this book done.
But it's yeah, so that's that's a passion project and
then you know, pursue some some new opportunities. And I
feel so blessed to have this this ride with Puma
where I had this sport, lifestyle and fashion connection. I
had this this kind of baby in the golf category
(48:24):
as as a piece of it, and then got a
chance to spread my wings broader. My two fashions as
a kid were basketball and golf, and I had a
chance to do them both, uh you know, with with
the cat and so yeah, I think it's whatever's next.
I think it's going to be around sports. I think
it's it's going to get my creative juices flowing and
have some purpose to it. And right now I'm busy
(48:47):
with this book man, and uh, and I'm gonna play
some fall golf here. I got a tournament on Saturday,
so I gotta I gotta get the toolbaught out again.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I have absolutely no doubt that you will not be retired,
you know, for a very long time. And I would
have been very surprised to see you not stay in
somewhat of the sports space, because I know it is
important and passionate to you. Lastly, above, for people like
yourself that run these big sporting brands, would you say
(49:22):
that most of them come from a sporting background and
how much do you feel like that helped?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
I was at the last live event. The new head
of Nike Golf was there and he'd come over from basketball,
and I couldn't believe how good a golf game was,
and he was like, no, No, I played golf, college golf.
You know. I played Division one college golf. So that
athlete first mentality. Do you find that people like yourself
that reached these kind of levels of job titles do
(49:54):
they come from the athlete space? Was athletics and competitive
athletics kind of part of their DNA? When you look
at your compatriots across the board over all the brands.
Is it fair to say that there is a sport
mentality coming from there a competitor athlete.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Yeah, definitely. I think it's a common denominator if you
look across management of the sport brands, I would say.
And so whether that's you know, playing or you know
a rabid fan, you know, certainly an understanding of sports.
Being able to talk about the sports and communicate around
the game is important. I do think it's becoming more
(50:35):
important to have balance on your team, so not have
you know, everyone certainly on your senior team come from
kind of the same place, and to have views actually
outside of sports. I mean we've seen it now with
some of the leagues, some of the teams, certainly some
of the brands that I've seen having people with different
(50:55):
points of view and some different experience. Certainly now you know,
whether it's the influencer space, uh, you know, the social side,
digital marketing, yeah, you name it. I mean a lot
of kind of traditional growing up through sports and playing,
you got to you gotta have a balance on your team,
and I think I think that's really important, and I
(51:17):
think sport brands are no different.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Well, Bob It's been really good to talk to you.
The best thing about you no longer running Big Puma
is I'm actually going to get to play golf with
you because obviously with your schedule, your schedule is as
crazy as mine. And let's get you down to the
Floridian South Florida, get you out of the cold and northeast,
work on your golf game and uh, let's get that
(51:41):
handicapped down. Come on.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
I need, I know, I need, I need some short
game help, bug, So I need some help for sure.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Lastly, for the viewers, what's the book going to be called?
Do we have a title for it? Yet?
Speaker 2 (51:52):
We do have a title, it's Turning Pro And it
really is this this? Yeah, I mean you and I
are in the sports business like people athletes turning pro
all the time. But you know, every day you got
we got these graduates, you know, coming out of college
and turning pro. And my son just did it. He's
now working in Silicon Valley and to see through his
(52:13):
eyes what these kids are coming out of college and
learning content wise in terms of their majors. But that
gap between all the other stuff mentorship and work life
balance and international experience and champion teams and not just
finding a job, of finding you know, job with the
(52:34):
right company, with the right coaches and managers and those
kind of things. So that's what I'm trying to do
is kind of bridge that gap. So turning pro and
again I got it. I got to get it done.
It's not a book until you actually do it well.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
I mean, if you've given everybody the title, they're gonna
want to we need sale. So you better get to
us and shape and get that thing out. Bob, great
to talk to you. Best of luck and all your
new endeavors, and thanks for all the friendship and the
mentorship over the years. It really was special getting to
spend time with you, and it really did have a
massive impact on me, not only personally, but professionally as well.
(53:09):
So I thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Thanks Claud great to see you and we'll see you
down in Florida. Some golf lessons, you got it.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
So that was Bob Fillion, really cool talk and we
touched on a lot of really cool stuff and that
kind of merging that sports culture. But the golf space
for me is where a lot of that happens. And
it's funny all of the golfers want to be football, basketball, baseball, hockey,
soccer players, Formula One drivers, and all of those people
(53:38):
want to be professional golfers. So always really cool to
talk to someone like Bob who has such a rich
history on both sides of the sport, the marketing side
and the brand side, but also on the competitive side.
So thanks to Bob for talking to us. Son of
a Butch comes to you almost every week, but we
will definitely be back next week.
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