Butch Harmon

Legendary instructor Butch Harmon joins the pod to break down Tommy Fleetwood’s thrilling victory at the Tour Championship. Butch shares exclusive insights into Fleetwood’s preparation, mindset, and the key moments that led to his long-awaited PGA Tour win. He and Claude also dive into this year’s Ryder Cup picks, offering their takes on the selections and what to expect. Lastly, as Butch celebrates his 82nd birthday this week, the duo reflects on his remarkable career and lasting impact on the game.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. I'm your host,
Claude Horn, and before we get to it, this episode
is being brought to you by Platform Golf. Platform Golf
is on a mission to transfer golf by closing the
experience gap between off course and on course play, allowing
players to make real putts on a tilted green and
hit approach shots from uneven lies. As a coach, one
of the biggest challenges has always been the disconnect between

(00:24):
practice and on course performance. Teaching on a flat surface
limits the ability to simulate real world conditions. Platform golfs
moving platform bridges the gap in both putting and full
swing training, giving players the opportunity to train the way
they play, enabling me to coach with greater precision in
a truly realistic environment. Learn more at platform goolf dot com.

(00:47):
So Dad, your Boys, Tommy Fleetwood finally gets a win
on the PGA Tour. I think it's been a wild ride,
and I think it's it's been tough to watch this
kind of when's he going to get it done? When's
he going to get it done? Because he's such a
good player and he's won everywhere. Do you think that
you could be a great player not being from the

(01:10):
US and not win on the PGA Tour. Do you
think it if you went your career and never won
on the PGA Tour, if you're Tommy Fleetwood from the UK,
do you think that's a mark against him? And why
is winning the on the PGA Tour is so important
to him?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well? At look at Colin Montgomery won seven money titles
in a row in the European Tour. He never won
a tournament on the US soil. I think in Tommy's case,
you know, he's such a steady player. He's a top
five loss tracker. Noiel, if he looked at his stats
this year, Strokes gained totally, he was second, Stokes gaining
Peter Green in fourth. Strokes gained putting fifteenth, which is

(01:46):
the best he's ever done. So he had a hell
of a year and he's been a good player for
a long time. He's got a phenomenal Ryder Cup record.
I think he's seven three and two or something like that.
It just shows you how hard it is to win.
But the way he closed out the FedEx got going third, fourth, first,
and literally gave away the first one he could have

(02:07):
won two or of three, and he has been trending
towards the end of the year, playing better and better.
I like the fact that on Sunday, during the middle
of the round, he kind of lost his rhythm and stuff,
and as he said in one of his interviews, he
went back to all the things we had worked on
when he because I try and teach my guys like

(02:29):
you to be they can be self corrected during a
round if they know there's swing really well. And he
said after his drive on the first hole, he realized
that he had gotten away from his tempo and if
he noticed, he started doing his two piece practice swing
drill that I taught him how to do to get
his rhythm from the top and not rush it and
started on the eleventh when you were missed shot, just

(02:49):
strapped everything.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
That was the thing. I mean, he missed the green
at nine and missed agree at ten. You know we
saw this. I mean, you played right. I never played,
so you know what it's like in a golf tournament.
But I think we saw this with Rory over the
last ten years, and I think Tommy was Do you
think Tommy was a little bit in the same boat
in that you can want something so much right, and

(03:11):
you can There's a big difference I think with people
like Tommy and Rory in wanting to win. Like, listen,
everybody that plays professional golf wants to win a tournament, right,
everybody that plays professional golf. You make it to the
PGA Tour, everybody wants to win a major. Everybody wants
to be number one in the world. But for the
majority of the people, you're never going to win a major.

(03:33):
You're never going to be number one in the world,
and you might not win a tournament. So my question is,
do you think you can want it so much and
know that you have the talent level to win. Like
Rory winning the Masters, everybody knew it was just a
matter of time, but until he got it done, it
was still just a matter of time. Everyone. You look

(03:55):
at Tommy Fleetwood's Ryder Cup record, the way he played
in Rome, the way he played in Paris, the big
tournaments that he's won, the game that he has, the
golf swing that he has, the consistency. Obviously he should
be winning on the PGA Tour because he's one of
the best players in the world. But do you think
as a player that you can want it so much

(04:16):
that you can't get out of your own way and
you're trying too hard.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
I agree with that one hundred percent, and I think
that was the difference for me with Rory this year.
He had finally learned how to relax and just let
it happen. As you know, I've done some work with
Rory and QT on the side. I know Rory's game
very well, and I thought this year, and I had
predicted before the Ryder Cup on the Sky that I
thought he would win. I said it all the way long.

(04:42):
I think he's going to win because I saw a
different Rory McElroy at the Masters this year. He had
wanted it so bad, Like you said before, he put
too much pressure on himself. He didn't do that this year.
He came in and knew he was playing well. It's
of course he should dominate. We know that as good
as he drives it. I think the beauty of Tommy
fleet Wood it was the way he handled the defeats.

(05:02):
He never got down on himself. He stayed positive the
whole time. I think that's why he won over so
many fans. I love seeing how the American fans took
to him at each lake. It was wonderful to see
and I think Tommy has a demeanor that he knew
it was going to happen and once he just relaxed.
This year is he did so much good work this year.

(05:24):
I mean, he plays so beautifully from TD Green and
he's one of the most popular guys with American players
of all the Europeans because as you know, he's a
great guy. It just shows you that Tiger Scottie, they
made it look easy to win. It's not easy to win.
There are so many good players out there. If you
look at how many first time winners we had this year,

(05:45):
you look at the guys that puts them themself there
every week. I mean you look at the one of
Tommy played nineteen events this week. I think ten of
them were top fifteens. So he was always there. He
was in the hunt, and he has tremendous self confidence
in himself. He comes across as kind of a real nice,
quiet guy. He's good out there in the heat of battle.

(06:06):
He's proved that in the Ryder Cup. He really proved
that this week.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
In a lot of ways that I think I said
this yesterday we were talking on the Phony reminds me
personality wise and how much the fans have embraced him.
Very much like Adam Scott, Like Scotty was, there isn't
anybody that you talk to that doesn't say, now, what
a great guy Scotty is. Like every caddy on tour
loves Scotty. All the players love him, all the agents

(06:32):
love them, all the manufacturers love him, all the fans
love him. Tommy's the same. All the players like him,
all the caddies like him. I mean he and his caddy.
You know, they're one of the best teams out there.
But very much like Adam Scott, Scotty's career will always
be looked at with the golf swing that he had
and Tommy's in that same vein the golf swing is

(06:53):
so good that do you feel like because technically they
look so good doing it. Their swings are so good.
You know, Bubba Watson's golf swing, Matt Wolfe's golf swing,
you know some of the other weird golf swings out
there technically aesthetically, But when you look at Tommy, you
watch his ball striking and just from a sheer technique standpoint,

(07:17):
you stand behind him and you're like, where's the weakness? Right?
So do you think sometimes the lens that we look
at him through because of the person he is and
the golf swing is he Like you said, winning is hard,
but he's one of those players that we expect to
win tournaments every year. And then when you say that

(07:37):
as someone that has played and one tournament's before, in
your opinion, what is the hard part? Everybody says this,
it's hard to win, right? I say that, but I've
never done it. You have you one tournament. We're just
at the cycle now to where you could see the
players getting righter cup itis. They're trying to make the
righter cup team. It happens every two years. Guy that

(08:00):
should make it choke because they're trying. So when you're
trying to win a golf tournament, you say, is someone
that's won a tournament that it's hard? What is horrid
about winning a golf tournament?

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, first of all, your comparison with Adam Scott is
spot on. There are two very similar individuals. They've both
figured out their life what's important to them in their life.
Adam had a schedule that was lower than most people did.
He had his life that he and his family time
that he wanted. Tommy's the same way. He's got a
great family. He's a great family man. He talked about
it in his interview. The most important thing to him

(08:35):
is his family and stuff. You hear Scotti Scheffer say that.
Then the golf side of it, that's the business side
of it. It's some people can make that everything in
their lives like Tiger did, or some people just when
it's time to play, they go play when they don't.
Now the winning part. The reason it's difficult, especially today,
is because of the abundance of really good young talent

(08:58):
that's out there. Said maybe people that watch TV on
the weekend don't recognize the leaderboard. He's got a fifteen
twenty under. Partly they have no idea who they are. Well,
these are the superstars of the future. And I think
Tommy's only what thirty four years old, He's not that old.
He's got a huge career ahead of him. And I
think this, and I said this to him yesterday when

(09:19):
I was talking to him on the tone, I think
this win right here, this is the start of your
next career, and I think you're going to see the
confidence level has really gone up now I'll tell you interesting. Sorry.
My wife asked me after Tommy won, Honey, where would
you put this in the frame of all the guys
you've had success within they won? I said, well, the

(09:40):
top two for me have always been Tiger winning his
first Masters and Phil winning the British Open because it
took me a long time to convince him how to
play link Stoff and he never thought he could win it.
And then this one for Tommy. So these are the
top three that really ready stand out to me of
guys that I helped had got it done. It took
a wh for timing to get it done. But I

(10:02):
love this stretch of three weeks. He kept saying. After
the first one, yeah, I know, I gave it away
and stuff, he said, that's okay, we got two more
to play. And second, when he played pretty good, he says,
all right, how about we go just win the last one.
He says, I'm there, I'm ready to do it, and
he just led wire to wire and just was unbelievable. So, yeah,
it is hard to win. And you look at guys

(10:23):
with so much talent, why don't they win every week?
Because it's not easy. Tiger and Scotti Chefa have made
it look easy, but I'm telling you it is not easy.
And by the way, klok, make sure you leave at
skateboll on the on the wall behind you on it,
because if you get on it, you're going to break something.
So just be about.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
So why do you think now? I mean, is it
that thing? Have it? I mean you've gone through this
datus a player and stuff. Is it when you win
and everybody expects you to win, or you know, you
get your card or something like that. Is the relief
something that when you get back into that situation you've

(11:04):
got kind of the weight off your shoulders. Is it? Oh,
I've done this, I've proven myself. I can just because listen,
Tommy has hit a lot of great golf shots when
he needed to wright. But it's in the moment being
able to kind of withstand that little kind of blit
because I think it's easy to look at. We saw

(11:25):
this with Rory as well, trying to win the Masters
and win a major for the first time in ten years.
He hit some horrendous shots on the back nine on Sunday.
It seems like there's always going to be this kind
of crisis moment when you're trying to win, maybe for
the first time, or for Tommy just trying to win
in America, something he really wants. But you mentioned going

(11:47):
through that crisis moment in the round where you say, Okay,
I've made some mistakes. I've got to kind of reset
and see. But the next time he gets into that
situation has a chance to win. How does what he's
gone through over the last three weeks help him mentally?

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Oh, it helps him tremendously. He knows he can do it.
I mean, he's always known he can do it. He
is a great record, and you're a great rydercon record.
We know he's a good player. I think for me,
you celebrate this win and then it's gone because you've
got to play again. He's only going to play one time,
I believe, before the Ryder Cups as they went worth

(12:24):
in their PGA Championship. He's going to play in that.
The rest of the time, he's just going to relax
and work on his game and stuff and get ready
for a best page. But this win, the way he
did it, the way he's self corrected in the middle
of the round when he kind of went south, is
a huge vote of confidence. For all the work that
he's done. And he said that to me when he talked.

(12:44):
He said, I just pulled everything we've talked about in
practice sessions, everything you've had me do. You've taught me
how when I lose my rhythm what I need to do,
And he said, I'm just going to do what we do.
You saw the practice swings, you saw the rhythm come
back on the swing. Had a different demeanor this week.
My wife Christy said it when she watched him on Saturday.

(13:06):
I was playing an event down and so in California,
the cub I belonged to and a four ball member
member event on Saturday, and I didn't get back to
the condo tail after he had played a few holes.
But we did win the tournament, by the way I'm saying.
But anyway, even Christy said he's a different person this week.
I can just see him. He's relaxed. I can see

(13:28):
his demeanor. He feels so good about what he's doing.
And I think that was the build up, the build
up to get there, the loss, then the next one,
and then all of a sudden bloom, he's right here.
He opens up strong, he's gone the balls to the wall,
he feels good about everything he's doing. You know, good
ball strikers have to put Just because you're a great

(13:49):
ball striker, it doesn't mean you're going to win tournaments.
And I have to give it to tom because phill
Kenyan his punning coach, and I have been on him
to be more aggressive with his putty because Tommy was
a top five ball striker in the world, an average
petter until this year, and he got more aggressive with it.
His balls used to limp up to the hole all
the time. He saw balls going all year long into

(14:11):
the hole at more speed. I said, so what if
you're knock him two feet by, I've already seen it
roll by. And Phil was really working on him out
of the speed control. And that was the other thing.
He pett it better than anybody. Last week that golf course,
which he had never done before.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well to day, he shot sixty four in the first round.
I think he made almost one hundred and ten feet
of putt right, So he's making And I went back
in and I looked at you know, that first round
where he shot sixty four, and I mean he made
I think he made seven birdies, one bogie shot sixty
four and yeah, he hit a couple of iron shots
like he always does because he's such a great ball

(14:48):
striker to four feet on a part three to seven feet.
But what I noticed at that he did was very
similar to what Scotti Scheffler does and what Tiger does.
He hit the ball twenty to twenty five feet a lot,
not necessarily lighten it up. Not necessarily. He's going to
hit his good chots that are kind of the highlights

(15:10):
to where he knocks it stiff on a par three,
hits one to four feet and has a kind of
tap in birdie. You know he birdied. I think he
birdied one.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Two.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I know he birdied one and two and the first Yeah,
he's not hitting it to tap in range. So when
you have a player like him and a player who
is already a pretty good ball striker, I mean Tommy
before you started working with him, he was always somebody
that people liked his golf swing. You know, for the
golf nerds, they liked it. So for the people that

(15:42):
want to know, why, give me a deep dive into
what you saw when he first came to see you,
what you liked, and then what you felt he could
do better.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well, first, we'll go back to what you talked about,
and he's like, he had a great game plan Eastake.
Our game plan for east Lade because it's a long,
hard golf course, was driving the fairway so he didn't
always hit driver. He hit the mini driver, a lout
off the tee, his fireword off the tee. His game
plan was beautiful dump in the middle of the green
on the hard holes a lot like Jack did. Scottie

(16:17):
Shaffer does take advantage of the holes. I can be
aggressive with with short irons because he's His short iron
play is beautiful, and he did that. The tip off
was the control was most of the shots were pinned
high all the time. They may have been twenty twenty
five feet, but they were always on the propper side
of the green, always where he needed to be to
give himself a chance. And he made some of those,

(16:38):
which you have to do if you're gonna win, you've
got to make puns. The difference in him now than
when he first came to me, Temmy to me was
always what I call flusher. I love his ball iron
playing with his contact was so good. It was just
such a good sound it made, and everything he was
a little erratic off the tea. With the longer shots,

(16:58):
he draws the ball predominantly. We worked on showing him
how to hit fades, and he hit some great ones
to write pins in the last few events that I've
really been proud of him for. Because his natural eye
sees a draw we worked on the control of the
change of direction a lot. He would get extremely aggressive
in his change of direction. The club would lay down

(17:19):
behind him, and being a drawer, his spine would have
to back up to get to the ball and he
could miss it mostly to the left, could miss both ways.
So once I got the club at the top of
the swing where I wanted, the width at the top
of the swing and the change of direction a little smoother.
As he started down, he didn't narrow that gap coming
down like he used to because his spine wasn't backing

(17:40):
up all of a sudden. He kept us with and
he used to say, for the last couple of years,
it's so nice to have so much room through impact.
I don't feel crowded anymore. I don't feel like I'm
trying to catch up with my hands. And you know,
that was a lot of hard work. That sounds an
easy thing. To fix. But this we've been working together
for about three years now and this is the year
that he really started feeling comfortable with everything we wanted

(18:03):
to do and to believe it and it's paid off.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think when you're working with a player that's got,
you know, a pretty good golf swing as well. Like
you said, I think one of the things that at
times under the gun could hurt Tommy. He he needed
to drive the golf ball better. Right, So when you
have someone like Tommy who you know, if you look
at Tommy pre working with you, or even now, if

(18:30):
you look at Tommy's impact position with an iron, I
mean it's he's gonna have a really good chaffleene, he's
gonna have a lot of compression, he's going to have
a lot of weight kind of going to that forward foot.
So iron wise, he's always been kind of, you know,
kind of one of the calling cards of his game.
Tad is a coaching as an instructor. When you're trying

(18:51):
to get someone who's a really good iron player and
then try and improve their driving, your thought process in
trying to go about that, how did you try and say, Okay, listen,
he's a pretty decent iron player. Yeah, he can maybe
every now and again fight the you know, the hook,
but he's got to drive it better to give him
more chances to take advantage of his irons. So, as

(19:13):
a coach, how do you take that jump from working
with someone on their iron game and then have that
lead Because I hear that all the time. You hear
that from students as well. Listen, I'm a really good
driver of the golf ball. My iron game's not great
at the elite level. Listen, I'm a really good iron player,
but I don't drive it that good. So when you
go about the task of saying, Okay, I've got to

(19:34):
try and help this player become a better driver of
the golf ball, what did you do with the driver
to help him?

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, you know, my philosophy is to never take away
with someone does naturally his swing is going to be
his swing. I've taught you to do that when you teach,
and we're very good at doing that. We're not trying
to create a brand new swing. Tommy swing was Tommy swing.
The problem with Tommy swing with the reason the iron
are so good card because the swing is shorter, the

(20:02):
motion is shorter, and a width at the top he
could get the club down in front of him, or
the swing with the driver gets much longer. And when
it got longer, he collapsed a little at the top.
His hands got close to the head, and when he
started down he was very narrow. And when you're narrow,
you've got a back to spine up to hit it.
And if you're a drawer of the golf ball, that's
going to bring in the flip on the exit and stuff.

(20:25):
So we worked very hard on a drill that I
did with Tiger for all those years, right. I made
him go to the top and stop, and I would
tell him to go, and he would go and hit balls.
And we've done that for hours at a time, you know.
And that old Golf Channel thing with Peter Kesseler when
Tiger was on, he says, I hated this fill, but
which made me do it because I needed it. Well,

(20:46):
Tommy has done that bill a lot, and that's how
I got him the feeling of where I wanted him
to be there. Then when I had to quiet down
to change the direction by sequencing back into the ball
better versus the arms passed in the body too soon
and get him to move forward on top of it,
get his chest on top and then drive through the

(21:06):
ball with extension and the release is more out and
around versus backing up and narrow to the left. And
it took a while for him to feel comfortable with it,
but that stop at the top drill is the key
for him to feel it.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
You also feel because I went through this when I
was working with Brooks, Brooks being a fader of the
golf ball, Tommy liking to draw the golf ball. But
I always felt that the weeks that Brooks could draw
it and hit the draw, it made it much easier
for him to fade it. So the weeks he struggled
to draw it and could just hit the fade. I

(21:41):
mean meeting from a technique standpoint, because Tommy can hit beautiful,
little high soft little draws with his irons. But do
you think the fact that you were able to add
in hitting a fade made the understanding of how to
hit or draw the proper way, not hang back, flip
it and release it. Because I watched you do that

(22:02):
a lot when you were working with Tiger. It was
a lot about trying to have the body speed match
the arm speed or the arm speed match what the
body does. So for everyone listening to that, you know
that isn't an instructor like you. That marriage between what
the body's doing and what the arms and the golf

(22:23):
club are doing, that relationship, because I think in a nutshell,
that's the thing that we see week in week out
from tour players or from the regular golfer. It's trying
to get what the body is doing to match what
the arms are doing, or try to get what the
arms and golf club are doing to match what the
body's doing.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Well, you're exactly one hundred percent corrective. For that to
have to do, your body has to be in good shape.
Timmy works out a lot. You've got a very strong
core and that helps to do all the things we're
trying to get him to do. The key is when
you do this, and I do this a lot with
the average players and with good players, I make them
hit balls in slow motion, a complete slow motion golf swing,

(23:06):
meaning if you go in slow motion, you can create
every position you want to create in the swing. You
can match it up with your body and your arms,
and we hit balls maybe for ten or fifteen minutes
just slow motion, and I say, okay, let's go at
sixty five percent, and then we speed that up a little,
and the arms and the body of rotation sequence perfect.

(23:26):
And then we go to a normal swing and then
get to feel in the sequencing. But with the slow
motion swings, you can feel it. You can actually feel
what your arms and your body are doing, and you
can control it better with a slow motion actually, and
then you speed it up a little, and speed it up,
and through hours an hour of the practice using these
type of drills and things like this is how you

(23:47):
create a swing that works under pressure. And you've heard
me say this all the time. I don't care what
it looks like in a practice round or on the
practice seed, it's got to be on Sunday on the
back and nine when a light on that cam is
burning a hole in your head because you know you're
on TV and you know you've got a chance to win.
The difference between the great ones and the really good

(24:08):
ones is probably the mental ability to handle that pressure.
Medic Tommy's getting good at doing that. He proved that
this Sunday.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
What miss did Tommy have and what miss did you
want to become? Less damaging in his in his game?

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Well, the left ball was the mix, especially with the
longer comes, because.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
He's starting right and go left, or would it started
on the.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Line and go it would start fairly straight and go left.
I told him I wanted his miss to be a push.
I wanted him to feel like you're actually moving past
the ball a little, you're not staying behind it, and
I want your miss to be a ball. It just
hangs right just a little, maybe falls out of the
air two or three yards to the left. But I
don't like that ball when he's drawing it. It's starting
more straight when his line is more to those eye

(24:54):
lines to the right, and then it goes to the
left because we can't aim at we can't play it,
and under pressure, that's to get you if that's in
your swing. The shot that I thought he did the
best was on fifteen on Sunday, because he had hit
in the water on fifteen on Saturday, and now he's
right there with the lead, and that is you've been
to Eastlake, that that's a tough shot. It was interesting

(25:15):
that he said this in one of his interviews because
we've always said that when we're there, the tea actually
aims you to the right and the greens over here
because the tea it's not a straight tea, it's a
sideways tea like that. That is you're right.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
I never thought that, but you're right.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I have a hard time aiming on his soul because
the way the tea sets up, and he just committed
one hundred percent. Yes, he flushed the five iron over
the green, but the whole idea was just never hit
it in the water. Even if you make boat, you're
still in the lead, so that's no problem. And that
was to me the shot that really showed me that
he was he was zoned in, and then once he

(25:50):
got that ball over all the water, I felt like,
this is going to be pretty good. I don't know you.
I don't know if you probably weren't watching the telecast
because you were at the live event. But Bones was
doing the call on fifteen and when that ball cleared
the water and landed up there, Bone said, which Harmon
and Henderson, no matter, just wipe the sweat.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Off his yead. Obviously, Tommy's been trying to win a
PGA Tour event. There are a lot of them you
could win. I think there are tournaments that you can
win on the on the PGA Tour that are to
the other players somewhat statement wins. If you win it Riviera,
if you win it Pebble, if you win it Memorial,
you know, golf courses like that, the players stuff like that,

(26:33):
the non majors. But what type of statement do you
think it sends to his peers when you win the
FedEx cop at As, like against the thirty best players
of that calendar year, do you think that is a
pretty big statement win for the rest of the tour.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Well, it's a huge statement win for the American players
because they all know he was good and he just
really proved it to him because he just came there
and kicked their butts. The Euros know how good he
was because they played with him on the European Tour.
They played with him the Ryder Cups. It was nice
to see Rosie there, and Shane Dane was there, Harry
Hall was there. You know some of the Euros that
they were there that went around and were happy for him.

(27:15):
I think in all honesty, Tommy's probably the most popular
European player with the American players on the tour because
because you can't even like you said, like Adam Scott,
you can't not like him. He's just a good guy.
And I had some really nice texas from my American
players that I worked with through the past and then

(27:36):
talking about how happy they were for him to see
him finally get that monkey off his back because now
he doesn't have to answer that question. He's still going
to have to answer the question best player to never
win a Major. That'll be the next one they get
on with. But don't worry. He can handle that question
now and I think you'll see him win a major
next year for sure.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, it's funny. The tour, they were in the middle
of the FedEx, so it was three in a row.
The LID guys were in the middle of their last
three tournaments in a row, so everybody was watching. I mean, he,
like you said, he's the type of player that all
the other players are watching, right so when he has
chances to win, everybody is on Sunday is going. You know,
in the mornings the tournaments that he had chances to

(28:15):
win and didn't get done. But in the morning at breakfast,
all of the live guys were going, dude, he's got
to get it done. He's got to get it done.
It's got they wanted him to get it done. So,
like you said, I think he is that type of
player that is somewhat just universally liked, regardless of the
fact that you know he plays and he's from the
US or from He's not. The obvious question now is

(28:40):
do you think this helps him in the four majors
that we are going to have every year for the
next five years? In that I mean Tommy's had some chance.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
I mean that was the other thing.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
It was Ricey who keddies for Harold Varner said, Listen,
everybody keeps saying when is Tommy going to win? But
what is the last time? How many real fifty four
hole leads has he had? And if you look at
like from a major standpoint, yes, Shinnacock the year Brooks
one finished second, but he teed off at eight o'clock

(29:13):
in the morning and shot sixty two on perfect greens.
Not what is going to happen at three o'clock in
the afternoon at Shinnecock, right the golf course he played
that day. So do you think this can springboard him
getting into contention to win majors? Now, there's a big
difference between getting into contention and winning majors, and then

(29:34):
there's being in contention kind of around the back nine
turn on Sunday. Right, it's a big difference between being
in one of the last three or four groups, but
not really. But do you think now we are going
to hopefully, I think the fans want to believe he
is going to have a chance next year deep into

(29:55):
the back nine of a Major at four to six
o'clock in the afternoon, be in one of the last
groups and be one of these guys that chills and
out of the four majors. Dad, which major do you
see sets up really good for his game and his style?

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Well, I would say US Open would set up good
for him because he has the ability to drive the
ball so much better. A British Open sets up good
for him. He's not one of the longest hitters terry
average is about three hundred yard, but he's long enough.
I think the difference card is his boss striking is
always going to put him in the frame of conversation
of majors. The way he puts now and the confidence

(30:35):
that he has with his putting has changed his whole
demeanor on how he feels he plays with the best
players in the world. He told me when we talked yesterday. Look,
I really feel like I belonged now. I wasn't always
sure I belong with the best players in the world.
I know I belonged there now. I proved to myself,
not to anyone else, I've proved to myself that I

(30:56):
belonged there, and now that he puts so much better,
will be a factor in majors. There's no doubt about that.
In his popularity. As he was saying, you didn't see
the broadcast, but you seit of seeing all the lebron
James texting out.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
I saw.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I saw all between the great w NBA player texting
out about his time. Larry Fitzgerald, the great NFL player,
texted me he's going to get it done today. It's
really funny how this guy has captivated some of the
unprofessional athletes that don't even know it.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, I mean, I think it is a hugely, hugely
popular win. Talk about what he's like off the golf course,
because obviously, I mean, he's got a great family, both
his step son's Oscar and Mo. They've been in our
junior academy in Dubai for a long time, in a

(31:45):
lot of ways that he reminds me a little bit
of Jimmy Walker in the fact that he feels like
once Jimmy started winning and the work that you guys did,
you could see Jimmy's confidence, feeling like he felt like
he belonged, that feeling that you can be one of
the best players in the world ranked inside. But you know, Tommy,
he's been inside top twenty in the world for a

(32:08):
long time, as he should, right, But when you get
a big win like this, you win the FedEx stuff.
You said, he feels like he belongs. How does that
change the way you think about yourself? But how also
that on the fraternity of the kind of traveling circus
of the PGA tour, how does that also affect the

(32:28):
way other people look at it?

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Well, he ed up the top six in the world
now in the world rankings. I still don't understand how
the hell of world ranks work. But that's where he is.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Hey, we got to ask our boy, Trevor Immleman if
he can explain that, because he's in charge of that
ship now.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, he's in charge now and he's going to hear
pharm pupils. So I think the deal with Tommy, and
you know how he is with his kids. He loves
playing golf with his kids. His son got in unlesser
a tour event. Oh that he caddied for him in
the event, seeing it when he's been at the Flow,
he loves to come to the Flow upsbacks and the
boys just go over in the Harmon course and play

(33:03):
all day long. They love everything about it. So he's
got a family that's involved in golf. Claire his wife,
who's just wonderful.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
I love her.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
She was an originally his agent when it started out.
She understands golf, so the whole family understands what it
takes to be good on the PGA Tour. The other
thing that we talked about yesterday was now that you've
got this monkey off your back, now you got to
work harder because I told him, I said, look, when
I took Greg the number one in the world for

(33:32):
a long time and tired to number one in the world,
they outworked everybody because they wanted to stay at number one.
And Tommy said that to me. He said, but we
need to go. We're going to go to work now,
we're going to get better. I got to work harder
to stay where I am because I want to get
better and better, and the way I'm going to get
there we got to work harder. That's a mindset that
the great ones have.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Do you think, given the fact that he's now six
in the world and you look at the guys that
are in front of him, do you think that he
or anyone else in the next two to three years,
do you think anybody can make a legitimate run at
Scotty Scheffler at number one in the world.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Right now, you'd want to say, no, is Scotty going
to continue on this level? You know, they're starting to
compare him to Tiger, which I think is a little
early for that. I mean, he didn't do it for
twenty years the Tiger, but he is Tiger ass.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
The other thing that's hard about the Tiger comparison to
Scutdy is if you look at the signature events now
and you look at the cuts made street the Tiger had.
I mean, Scudy and the elite players on the PGA
Tour now they're playing in what eight tournaments a year
where there.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Is no cut.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
There is no cut, right right, So they're playing in
tournaments where you know, so, I mean, I think that
But do you think that Tommy has the type of
game that could maybe if he can't get to number
one in the world right now, because it seems like
Scotty is in a preser. I never thought that I
would say that Scotty Scheffler, given the fact that Rory's

(34:58):
won a major this year, I didn't think I would
say at the end of this year, with Rory winning
his first major in ten years, winning at Augusta, winning
a Green Jacket, that I would still think that he's
nowhere close to his good as Scotty Scheffler is right now.
I think when Rory McElroy is playing his best, you
can make an argument that he is the best player

(35:20):
in the world. But right now it looks like everybody
else is in that There's Scotty and then there's everybody else.
So if you look at the top four guys in
front of him, do you think Tommy has the type
of game that could challenge right now to be the
best of the rest because Scotty is so far ahead.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, it's going to be a hard to catch Guty Scheffer.
I mean, he didn't even have his good stuff last
week and finished what fourth? Well, Yeah, but how hard
does he get to number one. Phil Nicholson never got there.
Guys won forty five tournaments and six majors tevil As
he did it the Tiger liz Era, but still that's
a phenomenal record. So you can't say, do I think

(36:02):
Tommy Fleet will will be the number one player in
the world. I think he has the talent to be there,
But the guy that's number one right now is so
far out there it would take a monumental year to
catch him. I think you're going to see Tommy Fleet
would be in the top five in the world from
here on for a long time. I think it's ball
striking proves that. I think now that he cuts so
much better. His confidence proves that. And I can tell

(36:23):
you right now because I know this man very well
and he's one of my best friends too, as far
as a student of mine is. He now believes he's
one of the best players in the world, that he
belongs at the top of that list. And that's a
huge thing when you get that in your heart right here,
and you know that we know he can compete, we
know he has that, and I think it's going to

(36:43):
be interesting to see what happens it's going to be
a fun to watch the progress from here on. I
know he's going to work his tail off if that's
what he does, and he's so popular, I think it's
going to be interesting. In what are we thirty days
away from the Ryder Cup. It's a bes page what
I saw with the fans on Sunday. They weren't rooting
for Cantley. They were all rooted for Tommy Fleetwood and

(37:06):
something that's going to carry over into the Ryder cupany
which is going to be interesting.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
I got to ask you, I mean, listen, I think
he's I mean, Patrick Cantlay is a great player, but
what the hell is going on? I mean I watched
him down on the eighth pole. He made seven looks
at the hole. I blame the tour. I one hundred
percent blame the tour and all the tours because if
they wanted to stump out slow play, they could remember

(37:31):
when JB. Holmes won at Riviera and he was a
human reign delay on the back nine. Instead of saying
go get the trophy, they could go, by the way,
you're in a playoff because we're giving you two shots
because you've been a glacier for the last Well, how
could be does the players you know this right? Bryson
paired Honor bon Lahiri on Sunday and the match play

(37:52):
at Live against Brooks because he knew Bond would be slow.
He knew that Brooks likes to play fast. Brooks almost
took five minutes on the first green to hit a
fifteen foot put and by the third hole they were
on the clock. And he told one of the announcements,
we're gonna play at my pace now. Books played so
slow right to get them on the clock, so they

(38:13):
had to play faster. Do you think if the tours
wanted to fix slow play they could.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
They got to grow a pair. Just finding people is ridiculous.
These guys don't care about money. They're all multi millionaires.
You're not going to get them to speed up. You
put two shots on them. It could cost them making
a cut, It could cost them winning a tournament. If
you cost them keeping.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Their card, could cost them getting in a Ryder Cup.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
The old story years ago, Ben Hogan was very slow
and he's played in the US Open. I think it
was maybe even have been the first or second round.
And Joe die was the head of the USGA and
they went out and told mister Hogan, if you don't
speed up, we're gonna have to penalize you two shots.
He says, give me two shots now. So I got
more holes. I know how many more birdies I gotta
make because I'm not speeding up. But if you put
two shots on these guys, first of all, they would go.

(39:00):
But can't believe you're gonna penalize me two shots, well,
then hurry the hell up. Damn it. I mean, look
at Oldberg. Isn't a joy to watch Olberg played golf
At the speed he plays. I mean, it's phenomenal. DJ.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
I mean, you don't get it with Ludwig and DJ.
The camera guys say Ludwig is the new DJ because
if DJ's last to hit or Ludwig's last to hit,
they're scrambling to try and get behind him. They're saying
they can't get behind him fast enough.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
I said to Tommy, doesn't bother you house, So I said,
I know you were on the clock on the eleventh toe.
I saw him coming to get you. But you guys
struggle on an eighth hole forever because they were both
had rulings. And that's how I got behind. He goes,
you know, the guy is slow, but I wouldn't know
how to bother me. He said, I was just in
my world and he could get in his world to
be as slow as he wanted, because I was still
going to whip his butt.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
That you know him well. I think he's one of
the icons in the game. And Rory McElroy, I think
everybody was just it wasn't a question of when he
was going to win another major. It was I mean
if it was a question of when, in my opinion,
I know you think this as well. It wasn't a
question of if he was going to win it Augusta.
It was only a question when there isn't a golf
course on the planet Earth more designed for a golfer

(40:08):
than Augusta National Is for Rory McElroy. But that was
the same with Greg Norman and he never won there
there have been Arnold Palmer never won tournament. He wanted
to where does Rory go now, Dad, for inspiration and motivation,
because that was a pretty high mountain that he climbed.
You could see the emotion that led out of him,

(40:29):
and you could see the emotion that all of us
as fans had so you can imagine what that's.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Like for him.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
But there have been some articles written about the fact
that and he has mentioned that he's trying to figure
out where the reset is. So if you're Rory McElroy,
now you've got five Majors, You've won the Grand Slam,
You've got a seventy five million dollar airplane where you
can leave the Tour Championship and go straight to the
US Open on your private jet and be watching Novak Koku.

(40:57):
Rory can do whatever the hell he wants, right, He's
an icon of the game. He is one of He's
one of the best players I've ever seen. I know
you think he's one of the best players you've ever seen.
But where does the motivation come now for him? And
do you think there has been after Postmasters with him,
a little bit of not a lack of motivation, but

(41:17):
just taking in something that is he's always wanted that
he knew he should do, and we all thought he
should win the Grand Slam. He thought he should win
the Grand Slam. I mean I thought when he wanted
Valhalla Dad at the PGA. By twenty twenty five, I
thought he'd have double digit major.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Didn't you no, I did you know here? Here's going
to be the interesting thing. I think. I think Rory's
got to recharge himself in this offseason. I know he's
going to play a lot of where he gets paid
to play a lot of that. I think when next
season starts, I think if he looks at yes, he
won the Masters, he got the Grand Slam, He's still
not the number one player in the world. Gyfer's got

(42:01):
a huge lead on scar Sefferd's playing great. I think
seeing Tommy just win the FedEx Cup, of which Rory
was playing in, I think that gives him a motivation.
I think saying, hey, wait a minute, I'm you know,
I'm Roy McLaury, I'm this, and that these guys are
really playing good. I got to go back to work.
I got to work harder. I've got to rededicate myself.

(42:23):
And then he has to look himself in the mirror
and say, Rory, what what do you want for the
rest of your life? What is it that will motivate
you for the rest of his life. The thing that
made Tiger Woods so good, and you know this because
we know him so well, is he was motivated his
whole career. It never entered his mind and he was
going to let you be there. And I'm not sure

(42:44):
that a lot of players have that in him. That's
that's just a god given talent that he has in him.
And I think Rory has to look at himself and
a lot like we talk about Adam. You know, Adam
only won one major. He would have thought he would
have won one, But Adam want a lot of time.
It's around the world. He's won over thirty tournaments or something.
But he had his life the way he likes it.

(43:05):
And I think Rory has to look at his life.
But here I am now at this point in life,
I've got more money than I could ever spend it.
I think he's close to being billionaires because he's made
really good investments and so he's got no financial words.
He's got a daughter that I know that he loves,
and he's got a family life that he has to live.
But he's got to look at himself in the there
and says, what do I want out of the rest

(43:26):
of my life? Because I can now I've got this
monkey off my back. Now where am I going to
go from here? Am I going to work harder? And
I'm just I don't think he'll ever just dial it
in and show up. I think he wants to win.
Is he going to be like a lot of the
great players where now it's all about just majors. All
I care about is how I play majors. I don't
really care about all this stuff. Maybe the Players Championship

(43:49):
and Tory Championship. I think we're going to have to
see how Rory comes out at the start of the year.
Is he rejuvenated, is he motivated to get better or
is he just going to say I've got a great
life and I'm going to enjoy my life. And either
way that's his decision. And I'm not saying one way
is better than the other because people are different. Twenty

(44:09):
six the start of the year is going to be
interested to see how Roy McRoy comes out. You know,
I just want him to be happy with his life.
He's happy with what he's doing. I'm happy for him.
I mean, what else can a guy do? And what
else can he do and win more?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Which of the two strategies that if you were advising
Rory to take, Okay, the strategy is okay, I'm Rory McElroy.
I've got a great career, and I know that. I
mean other than maybe Scotty Shepherd. Rory believes and the
proof is that he's better than the majority of people playing.
So does he just keep doing what he's always done,

(44:43):
which is just try and get better, keep trying winning,
keep trying winning as many tournaments as possible, or at
this stage in his life, does he just do what
you say? Say listen my focus now, Because if Rory's
career ends with the career Grand Slam but only five Majors,

(45:03):
and he continues to keep winning the tournaments like he
he will do. I mean he's gonna win. He's gonna
win at least one or two, maybe three tournaments a
year just by your talent, right, I mean, it's just
that good. But if his career ended with only five
and another Players and another Memorial and another Riviera or

(45:23):
another Honda or whatever, would that be enough?

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Well? I think what he has to do he has
to look at himself in two ways. First way would
be what are my weaknesses? What do I still have
to work on? And I'm not really good at I
know I drive the ball grade and he's done great
work when I work with him in his wedge game.
He's getting much better. It's proxim me the whole of that.
Look at what your weaknesses are, and this is what
I'm gonna work on in the offseason. Number two, let's

(45:48):
set a schedule where I'm gonna play courses that suit
my game.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
I'm gonna played.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Really suit my game. I'm with the ability of my life.
I can play whatever I want to play. I can
play as shoe events as I want to play. I
can play at many events as I want to play.
But I want to look at this other than majors,
because you don't go to play majors. Let's see the
courses that I really like to play on and they
suit my game, and let's shoot for that. But I
think in the offseason he's got to sit down and
look at his stats. Look at the stat that I

(46:15):
look at with all my players, and proximity of the
whole from every yardage, and that will tell you what
you need to work on. I've had players that their
stats from one hundred and seventy five yards they're closer
to the hole than they are from one hundred and
thirty five yards. That shows you got to work on
the short term game that your full swing is better.
I think Rory if he would take that approach now,
if he would ask me, I would have that conversation

(46:37):
with him, But he'd have to ask me. I'm not
going to tell him what to do. He's roaring that coin.
But I said, if he will do those two things,
I think this guy's will limit. He'll just take off now.
Penny Text Gotty Scheffer. Scotty Scheffer is going to have
a downtime. Jack Nicholas had a down year. Tiger Woods
had one down year in ninety eight where he he
only won one time. Nicholas had a point in his career.

(46:57):
We had it down yere. Scotty hasn't had that down year.
It's out there. I don't know when it's going to come.
Because it's human nature. It's going to happen. And let's
put it this way. Injuries they have a lot to
do with that too. Is your body going to hold up?
Are you in good enough shape to hold up? So
there's a lot of things that goes into it as
well as playing. It's just going to be interested to
see how it happened. Is there far away the two

(47:19):
best players in the world.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
I was at the Open championship down, and you know,
it was almost like a foregone conclusion back you know
very much. I mean, everybody was saying, unless a typhoon
rolls through, there's nobody that's going to beat him. And
there is this kind of narrative right now with Scotti
Scheffler that he's boring, that it's not exciting. But as
someone that loves golf, loves competitive professional golf, that loves golf,

(47:47):
swings the golf he's playing, sure as hell isn't boring.
And I've asked you this before and You've given me
an answer, and I'm going to keep asking you this
as long as he keeps playing in this year. I
asked you this at the end of last year. You
gave me an answer. I asked you the year before,
you gave an answer this year. What has impressed you

(48:09):
the most about Scotty Scheffer on the way he's played
in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Well, he didn't win as many times as he won
last year, so everybody would say, well, that's not good,
But I think the chasing pack got better and they
got closer to him. For me, Scottish Sheffer has complete
control of his life. I love when When he does
an interview, he says, you know, the most important thing
to me is not winning golf tournaments. Yeah, that's my job.

(48:34):
But once I win one, that week's over with. I
got to go on to the next week. He has
figured out a life in the way he does it
that works for him when he teas it up. He's
one hundred percent invested. When he's in old practicing, he
likes to play with his buddies and hang out and
have a normal life. He flies under the radar a
little bit compared to other superstars because he doesn't have

(48:56):
the most gregarious personality. He's a wonderful god. Scottis Shepherd
was very nice, funny, competitive, but you know he's not
as charismatic as I say Rory is, or I say
it Tiger was. You know, that's just him right now,
he is far and away the best player in the world.
I think he's far and away the smartest player in

(49:17):
the world for sure. That's why he reminds me so
much of Jack Nicholas, not yet Tiger Woods, even though
the comparison was getting closer, because Jack didn't make any
mental mistakes. He doesn't make mental mistakes. Yeah, you can
hit bad shots. Bad shots are part of golf. But
he dumps in the middle of green, dumps in the
middle of green, dumps in the middle of green, shoots
at pens. He had due Tommy took. His game plan

(49:37):
this week was the scottis Cheffer game plan. That's how
he and I talked about how he was going to
play a course. It's that hard were getting into the fairways?
Is that important on a long holes? Just dumping the
middle of green. You may make one or two long
cuts and just just don't make mental mistakes. And Chef
was the best in the world doing that.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Right now, I think from inside of one hundred and
fifty yards, I think Scotty's hitting it almost two steps
closer than PJ two raverats. So when you look at
Scotty's game right now, do you see that he has
a weakness.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Uh No, I don't think he does have a weakness.
Everybody talks about us follow through and everything, but if
you look at his footwork and impact, it's perfect. Let's
forget all that. That's just Arnold Palmer was all this
jack swalling all over Radino, walking after and talking. Impact
is the most important part. And I got to get
Randy Smith a lot of Kodo boy. He has been
with his kid ever since he was a young kid.

(50:30):
He never changed that footwork. He just tried to get
the impact position better and better and better. And I
don't think Randy. I think a lot of times we
get too much credit when a guy plays good, and
we get too much criticism when a guy plays poorly.
Because all we can do is get our guys ready
to play. They have to go playing. Randy Smith is
done a phenomenal job. Who's Scott and Scheffler. He is

(50:51):
the perfect coach for him, that had been together ever
since he was a young kid. He understands him personally
and better than anybody, and he knows the things he
needs to work on. Ours gotta be a little frustrated
this week on TV, which I very seldom seen, because
he had hit a few more wayward chefs, especially with
the driver when he was trying to hit the phase.
He hit some double crosses to the left, which he's

(51:12):
not accustomed to doing. Still finished fourth, Still was right
there on Sunday with a chance to win. That shows
you how good he is.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Lastly, Dad Ryder cup picks just came out your team.
Surprised that Kegan chose not to choose himself.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
No, not at all. I think if he had made
the team on points he should have played. He could
have given the captain sty to say Jim Furrick and
say look you take over this. I'm going to play
because I made the team. Having not made the team,
I think it would have been a selfish thing to
pick yourself. I think he picked the right guys. I
felt sorry for Maverick because Maverick's a great putter and

(51:47):
would have been one of my players, but would have
been a great Ryder Cup player. But he's young, he's
a rookie. He was tenth on the list, but it
was eleventh. Harmon and Novak were twelve and thirteen. You
could have picked by an Harmond. He's a gutsy little player.
You knew Campley was always going to get picked. You
knew that Burns is a great putter. Cam Young is
a good player. So I think the sixth that he picked,

(52:11):
the one that might be the most I wouldn't say
wrong with him, would be kyl Omar Coward. He hasn't
had that dirty year, you know, but he's a great player.
He's one two majors, and so I think he was
gonna JT was always going to get picked. Ben Griffin,
I think was one you were thinking is he going
to pick him or not because he's a rookie, but
he's a good putter. And match play, it's all about putting.

(52:33):
You have to putt good enoughs play how you play
a lot of times as im material because you scored
on count. It's the putts you make under pressure that
are important. And I think that he's got a team
that has it. You got Russell Henley, who a lot
of people don't know about this guy. He may not
be very long, but man, he could play gofline, he
could put Harrison is a great guy.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Harris Harris English, I mean his golf swing's great.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Super guy, very competitive. And you got Bryson from liv
and Bryson's Bryson. You had to have Bryson on the team.
I guarantee you John Robb is going to be on
the European team even though you've done Haven Ryder cup points.
I don't think their picks. I think Donald Looke. Donald
has a pretty simple thing. I said, there's probably only
one controversial pick in his six and that's going to
be it does He picked mattress Patrick because he has

(53:17):
played well lately, but he didn't play well at the
start of the year. And I think his record is
like one in seven in the Ryder Cups, so it
doesn't have a great I think that's the controversial one.
I think all the others are pretty obvious down the list.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
So you said that the Ryder Cup's sold about putting
your boy Harry Hall. He's statistically one of the best,
if not the best putter on the PGA Tour, and
he ain't even getting any phone calls or even getting
a look.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Oh he's getting a look Tommy told me about yesterday.
Tommy said that Tommy wants them on the team. Tommy says,
as good as this guy's thought, I'd love to play
with him. Now. He's down the list a little. When
he's because he plays over here all the time. I
think he's in consideration. I think he's been talking to
Harry yesterday. I was talking to him. He said, I
think I've got a chance that maybe the twelfth pick.

(54:04):
He says, I may be thirteenth, I may be the
advan out, but I think I Fitzpatrick pick is what
it is going to come down to who they pick.
If they leave Fitzpatrick, who they go. Harry holl would
be a great rider cupier. He's a good driver of
the ball. He's another drawer of the ball. He hits
it far and man, he could really put he is
he Tommy was talking about it yesterday, might have talked

(54:25):
to him, He said, I talked talked to Harry Lot
this week, told him how much I want him on
the Rader Cup team. And I said, well, why don't
you tell Luke Donald that.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
I know it's early, and I know the Europeans haven't
picked their team, but when you look at kind of
what we think this is going to end up looking
like right now for the Euros, it would be on paper,
we know what the US team is going to look like.
But when you look at what you pretty much think
the European team is going to look like. Maybe there
might be one or two, but the bull ninety percent

(54:55):
of the European ninety five percent of the European team,
everybody pretty much knows what that's going to be. So
I know we're almost a month out, but do you
see any advantage going America's way? Do you see any
advantage going the Euro's way. I mean, do you think
it's going to be even what do you think? What
are you looking at?

Speaker 2 (55:12):
I think for the first time, I haven't looked at
what the betting is. I haven't seen interested to see
whether the better is here in Vegas. Think I think
for the first time, a European team might be favored
on US soil, and I think that hasn't happened maybe ever,
but I think they have a chance to be favored.
I think it's very close. To me. I look at

(55:33):
it very close. I give the advantage slightly to the
European team because it's going to be pretty much the
same team that was in Rome. So you've got a
lot of guys with a lot of history that have won. Yeah,
we've got fort rookies on the team, JJ's or rookie
Russell Henley's or a rookie, Van Griffins, the rookie Camions,
a rookie, and then we have some of the stalwarts

(55:53):
that are on there. So I think it's going to
be very close. I do think that the Euros may
be favored for the first time on our soil, which
is very unusual. I think what it's going to come
down to, is it's going to be a very very
hostile crowd, one that I'm not going to be very
proud of for a golf event, because you get the

(56:15):
London Hudliums and like to come over to sporting events
and get drunk and argue, and then you get to
New Yorkers, they get drunk. They got no I think
we're going to see fights in the gallery, which I
don't like. I was gonna I've done thirteen Ryder Cups
for Skuys. You know, that's twenty six years of doing
Ryder Cups. I was going to do this year and
I pulled myself out of it. I didn't really like

(56:36):
what I thought the environment might be there. As an
American on the European broadcast team, I felt that, you know,
maybe this one I might want to sit out and
just watch it on TV because I think I'd even
feel very comfortable.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Well, I hope you're wrong, but I don't think you are.
And listen, I was in Rome. Well, we were getting
our asses kicked. There were a lot of intoxicated people there,
and some of the things that these people were saying
to the American players to the American wives listen every
time the Ryder Cup comes. I think one of the

(57:13):
things that and you know this because you've been going
to him forever. If you go to someone else's field,
if you go to someone else's stadium, if you go
to someone else's gym, you're going to get it right.
And yeah, I mean listen, Euros are passionate about but
do they sing their songs? When they're winning, there is
vocal and when they're giving it to the Americans, there

(57:36):
is vocal. I do think there is this best page
kind of New York thing. But it's going to be
interesting and I'm excited to see it. I mean, I
think Keikan was in a the win situation. Right. If
he picks himself and they lose, they crushed him for
picking himself. If he picks himself and they win, they
say selfish and stuff like that. He just played good.

(57:56):
That was the problem, right, They picked him to be
the captain, and then he had an unbelievable year to
where he's just he's just playing a you can't And
I do think we are going to continue to have
that issue because I think there is a trend at
don't you think that the Ryder Cup captains are going
to be younger. I think that it seems like they're

(58:19):
going to go to guys that are still playing, still
part of the sport, not on the chance tour, not
out of the game and stuff. So and I think
that's healthy. I think you want to have Ryder Cup
captains in the modern ero know the players. I mean,
I think that was one of the issues at Glenn Eagles.
I think Tom Watson really struggled to relate to the

(58:40):
modern game, to the modern players, to what the modern players'
teams look like, from coaching to physios to trainers. And
I just don't know if that old school stuff sells
anymore with the modern players. So the Ryder Cup captains
are going to get younger, and you're going to pick
guys that are still playing if they have an unbelievable

(59:02):
year like Keith does, then are we going to continue
to have this problem of guys going, well, listen, do
I need to pick myself?

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Well? I think here's the deal. I think you've seen
now they've gotten away from the old guard. They've moved
away from the old guard. Just because you've been good
in the past, doesn't me we're going to keep putting
you on these teams and you're not. Look at the
record of all the American players, it's not good. Their
records and Ryder Cup aren't great, every one of them.
You can go down the list. They don't have great
records in the Ryder Cup. And I think this is

(59:30):
the new way the Americans are trying to do it.
They're trying to get younger blood in there, which I like.
They've got a captain that you wouldn't think was going
to be picked captain. I think he's going to be
a great captain because he has great passion for it.
My hope for the Runner Cup bed the story is
about the golf and not about the gallery. That's my hope.
It's not going to be easy because it's a tough crowd,

(59:53):
and my hope is that the golf is so good
and so competitive, and that's what we're talking about every
day after the rounds are over with, and I'm talking
about the gallery. The jerks on both sides of the teams.
The euro team and I'm going close to a lot
of the euro players that are on this team. They're
ready for it. They know it's gonna happen. They just said,

(01:00:15):
you know, we're just gonna block it out. It's not
easy to do, but we can do it because we
want this. I wish our guys and hopefully our guys
said after Rome, let's never get beat like this again.
This is ridiculous because I know it. Whistley Straights, Tommy
told me that when the Euro's got killed at Whistley Straits,
the whole team got together and said, we will never

(01:00:36):
ever lose like this again. We may get beat, but
we're never going to get our bunch beat like this again.
I hope our guys feel that way and they show
up at beath Page saying we are going to win
this thing. No matter what it takes, We're going to
figure out how to do it. I hope that's what
happened to being an American, and I always look for America.
I just think it's going to be a very competitive,

(01:00:57):
brighter coup on and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Off the course, Dot. On a personal note, you're about
to turn eighty two years old, now eighty two years
on this planet. When you look back at your career, Dad,
what are you most proud of?

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I think I'm most proud of from a professional career
that everyone who came to me. Even though they left,
they were better when they left than they showed up.
And I think my career proves that nobody stays with
you forever. You and I am talking about that. They
move on for a different reason. That's fine, but as

(01:01:34):
you know, because you lived it with me when you
were younger, I gave my whole life to this job
my amount of time have been the best father I
could be because of it that my whole life was
trying to get better what I did and better what
I did to this day, soon the eighty two of tomorrow. Actually,
I'm still trying to learn. I'm not packing it in.
I am semi retired, but I still got my hand in.

(01:01:54):
I still love to teach. I'm just proud of the
fact that so many players sought me out and put
their game in my hands because they had confidence in
my ability to help them. And I feel that I've
done a great job in helping a lot of people.
I've learned as much from all the players that I've
taught as they've learned from me. I've had a great career.

(01:02:16):
I can't imagine where I sit right today if you'd
asked me fifty years ago you think you'd be in
the position you're right now. I would have said, you
got to be crazy. There's no way you know my
personality and how I am and blah blah blah blah blah.
I'm not the smartest guy in the world. I'm good
at hooks and slices. I'm not a good businessman. I've
got a great wife. I got three of you that

(01:02:38):
are wonderful kids that I love. Financially, I've done very
well with my life. I've made so many friends. I
really love the game of golf. I love to still play.
I love to get out there and play. Yeah, I
don't play as good as I used to. Hack my
handicaps up to about ten now, but I'm pretty strong
from those front teas.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
So yeah, I mean, you're eighty two years old. You say,
you know you still working with guys that are playing,
you know, professionally, and what still motivates you at this
stage your life. Listen, you don't have to do this right, no,
you know, in my opinion, you're the greatest golf constructor
of all time. I think you've got the record to
prove that. Financially, I mean, you can't spend all the

(01:03:17):
money you've got. You can't drink all the wine you've got.
I mean, have any car you want, you buy anything
you want, but to do this job, right, you know,
I'm fifty six years old. You know I've just spent
nine of the last eleven weeks on the road. It
takes a lot out of you. So at the stage
of your life, why do you still do it? Do
you do it because you just don't know anything else?

(01:03:39):
Or what about it? Helping players fix their golf swings,
both at the elite level and at the regular golf lesson?
I mean, you teach whoever you want to now, but
not everybody you teach is a tour player.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
You have friends that you teach, You have business people
you teach. You have people you've created relationships with that
are fifteen and cuppers that come and take golf schools
from you. So, with this shit to your life, after
everything you've been through, in every success you had, why
still teach? Why still do it? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
I just love I love to teach. Give the analogy
when I play with my friends here at home and
if I'm not working, I was trying and play in
a Friday game. Whether this is stuff. Then I would say, Okay, guys,
this isn't about you, this is about me. I'm working
on my game. I don't give a damn where you
hit it. In about four holes in I'll be okay.
I can't stand it anymore. Why don't you kind of
do this? You got to do that. I love working

(01:04:32):
with the best players in the world. I've had the
opportunity to do it my whole life. Someone asked me
the other day, they said, do you miss traveling? A
tourist said, absolutely not. Did I go to one turn
of the year, the Masters, It's the only one I
go through. I don't miss it at all. I tell
you what I do miss. I miss major championships because
for thirty years I always had one or two players

(01:04:52):
that had a chance to win a major championship, and
I missed the rush of them. I missed I miss
the anxiety of I missed the getting in the heat
of the battle and being there and being on the
grounds and being there at a major. Because I've had
been very fortunate and got a lot of major victories
that I don't have them, but my players have had them.
And for a long time I always had one or

(01:05:14):
two guys could win every major they played it, and
I actually I still have the feeling of that with
the top of them that I teach, but I really
miss that part of it. Travel Oh hell no, I
could care less about an airplane, in a restaurant, in
a hotel. I don't want any part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
You've done it way more times than I have. But
I've been lucky enough to be on that range in
a major championship. And one of the coolest things that
is so hard to describe that feeling of is that
range gets vacated and vacated and vacated, and there is

(01:05:51):
nothing better than being on a team where there were
the last two people on the driving on a Sunday
and you start to see the range dwindle. By the
time you get to the weekend. At a major, of
the range is way less crowded. But yeah, I was
lucky enough to do it with DJ even during COVID,

(01:06:13):
but at Augusta, when there's nobody on the range and
there's not really that many people in the stands and
you're hearing all the roars coming from the crowd. Being
a part of that is something that is us pretty
damn cool. I gotta be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
I've done it for thirty five forty years, and I
would say I miss that. I don't miss the travel
we travel now from when we want to travel where
we want to go. I've got a nice little trip
coming up here in a few days, going to New York.
The girls are going into the city to watch some
shows and shop and doctor brag and I are going
to wing Foot for on the sixth and seventh and

(01:06:49):
play twenty seven a day and stay out there. We'll
go back in the city and come home. And so
I like doing stuff like that. We've got to go
to France for a wedding this year, so we're gonna
make a lot of time to France and doing some
good red wine and had some fun. So I'm actually
starting to enjoy my life a lot more. And we
spent a lot of time. I'm here in my house

(01:07:09):
right now in Vegas, but we spent a lot of
time on our condo down in San Clemente in southern California.
We were just down there for two weeks to trang
go down for two and back for one, and spent
a lot more time doing that. So I'm starting to
enjoy life a lot more than I ever have.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
And still my guys are playing good. So yeah, that's
who it is. It's always great talking to your happy birthday.
And Marina Alex, the girl that I teached that was
on the LPGA, just retired. She was at wingfoot, she
played wingfoot. I told you your dad shot sixty one
on both courses, and she said, I have absolutely no
idea how we shot sixty one on both those courses.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Well, i'll tell you what. I'll be there on the
sixth and seventh of September playing twenty seven a day.
My goal is great. Ninety bought some pizza, shit, and
you're coming back there. In twenty eight the US opened
back at the foot.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
I love you. Great to talk to your happy early birthday.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Thanks. I love you too. Found I'm really proud.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Thank you, some of which comes to you almost every week.
Thanks everyone for listening.