May 21, 2025 • 54 mins
Claude welcomes sportscaster Steve Sands to the podcast to discuss the Scottie Scheffler show, their expectations for Rory McIlroy, Jon Rahm, and Bryson DeChambeau in the upcoming majors, and their thoughts on this year's Ryder Cup squads.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the Son of a Butcher podcast from your host,
Claude Harmon. My guest is one of the voices of
Golf Channel and NBC Golf, and I can't think of
anyone to talk about the second major of the year
that's just finished up in Quail Hollow, Greensboro. That's how
much I'm traveling. Surprising, not surprising, Sancy, I mean, Scottie Scheffler. Man,
(00:22):
it's he's he's good.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, you're great, and it's Charlotte not Greensboro. Come on,
I mean, come on, I've got no Claude Harmon, I mean,
what are we doing here, Claude, Quail Hollow. Johnny Harris
would be very upset with you to say Greensboro not Charlotte. Look, man,
this guy is relentless. He is a relentless competitor. We
(00:48):
haven't seen anything like this in quite some time, and
I think this is the first time I can unequivocally
say when he is at his best, he is the best.
I know, he's right number one, and that's an easy
thing to say. But a little bit of question. Rory
career Grand Slam Xander wins two majors last year. You
know you never know he'd only won only in quotations
(01:11):
two majors at the same venue. Now it's a second
leg of the four. I think he's in a completely
different category now, Claude, and I don't think it's gonna
stop anytime soon. Doesn't mean that he's not gonna it
doesn't mean he's gonna win every time. But I don't
think his relentless pursuit is going to stop anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Last four seasons, let me just throw some numbers at you.
Eighty two starts, forty five top fives, eighteen wins, three majors,
two players championship, won a gold medal. It's missed four cuts.
I think the last cutting miss was in Memphis in
twenty twenty two. Obviously, plays a lot of tournaments now
where there are no cuts. Seventy five million in official money,
(01:50):
just past DJ one hundred and forty weeks at world
number one. The obvious comparison when you throw up Steve
numbers like that is everybody gets compared to Tiger Woods.
And we've always been talking where's the next Tiger Woods?
And I think, I mean it's a hard comparison because
Tiger did it for almost twenty years fifteen years and dominated.
(02:15):
But in your opinion, is someone that sees Scotty day
in and day out. You follow him, you commentate on him,
you interview him. Is this as good as we've seen
from a non Tiger Woods, including the stuff that Rory
McElroy has done over the last because I think Rory's
had that career lengthwise, He's you know, was sitting on
(02:36):
four majors, just got the Grand Slam. I think Rory's
in a category by himself as well. But the guy
just we played a practice on DJ, played a practice
round with him and Gary Woodland on Monday, and it's
impressive without being impressive, Like he hits the drive. I
don't think he gets enough credit for how goody hits
the driver. I don't think he gets enough credit for
(02:58):
how long he is. I don't think if short game
gets enough credit. And when you watch him, I think
because the feet are all over the place, and I
mean he almost fell down three times. I'm fifteen. He
hit it on the slope on the par five a
little above his feet on Monday, and he hit this
beautiful high draw in there almost fell over. But Shane
(03:20):
Lowry said to me last year he's impressive without being impressive.
But the numbers are a joke. How good they are.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, there's nothing worse to me in sports than rubbing
the anointing oil all over somebody before its time. The
comparisons are getting really, really close to being fair, Claude,
like you said, I mean, there have been players, you
know that debate hot versus great. Every good PGA Tour
players has a hot run. Doesn't mean majors, but he
(03:49):
has a hot run. But if you look at Padrick
Harrington three majors in two seasons, Nick Price three majors
in three seasons, Rory McElroy four majors in three seasons
eleven to fourteen, four seasons, I guess, Jordan Spieth three
majors from fifteen to seventeen. You know, can Scotty sustain it?
What's the difference between Scotty and those guys. I mean,
(04:11):
those guys are all time great players, but they are
not quite in the category of those top ten players
of all time, top twelve, fifteen players of all time,
not just yet except McElroy. Now mclroy has sustained it
over time. The thing that makes me think that Scotty
has the ability to sustain this. And remember Claude, this
(04:33):
is crazy. Twenty seven months ago he had no wins
on the PGA Tour none, none, I mean, think about that,
and now he has, is it right? Twenty seven? When
did you win twenty two? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, one in twenty two at Phoenix, which managed it.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So that's three years ago. So we're talking thirty six,
you know, thirty eight months ago he had no wins.
Now he has fifteen, including three majors and two players
that's insane. And when he did and the FedEx Cup
end Player of the Year and number one. And if
there was a money list, the money list, they don't
have any and all name and all all of them.
(05:11):
By the way, he won a million times when he
was a kid. He won a million times at Texas.
He took his time a little bit to get out
of the PGA Tour, little Cornferry Tour action. All of
a sudden he's blistering the field. Here's what makes me
think he can sustain this. Rory, I guess from eleven
to fourteen had this, but not Nick and not Jordan.
(05:32):
If he doesn't win, Claude he's top eight every time.
There's no miscut tye for fifty seventh win, tye for eleventh,
tie for fourth, ty for twenty ninth win. It's win
eighth six, four win win third, ninth six.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's nuts.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
His consistency is beyond belief. And I do think, I
really do think we are, without being premature about it,
we're looking at something really really special here in Scotty Well.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We had the hand injury early, so we started late,
and I think the worst finish he has this year
I was looking at the other day is like twenty
second or twenty fifth, right, and then if you look
at the stats from last week, you know it's first
in total strokes game, he's fifth off the tee, fourteenth
in approach, fifth around the greens, Tita green, he's number one,
twenty third. And putting, I mean there was a time
(06:27):
a couple of years ago where people were talking about
he's a bad putter. I'm like, the guy's won eighteen times, yea,
how the hell can you be a bad putter. But
my point behind it is he doesn't have this thing
that stands out when you watch Rory McElroy play golf
and you watch the things that he does. He has
(06:47):
a differentiator. Right, the driver is a huge differentiator, the
ability that he has to hit the golf behind. And
I think a lot of players that dominate and that
are superstars in golf, Sansy have something that you know,
Jordan was the greatest putter on the planet from twenty
to forty feet, right, you know these guys when Brooks
(07:08):
was on his dominant run, he was doing things DJ
dominated with the driver. Scotty dominates because I think he
is the superpower. I think the way that he goes
about his life, the way he lives his life, both
on and off the golf course, is I think very unique.
He doesn't have social media. He and his wife Mayor
(07:30):
they play puzzles at night. You know, he's not doing
the things that a lot of modern day athletes in
twenty twenty five are doing. You've interviewed him, you've been
around him. What do you think makes him special as
a person.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I think the most incredible thing about him and the era. Look,
you and I are much older than he is. You know,
he's twenty eight years old. He's grown up in a
social media era. He's grown up in a you know,
a posting era. He's grown up in an era where
whether you're going out for a scoop of ice cream
or you're going on a cool vacation, that you just
(08:07):
tell the world exactly what you're doing at all times,
not in a show off way, but just because that's
what kids do. That's what people do in this era.
I have never been around anybody in sports where and
I mean this sincerely, in all sports. He cares about
winning tournaments and that's it. The endorsements come with play.
(08:29):
The social media aspect, as you said, is mil He's
married to the woman of his dreams. He's got a child,
high separt, his parents are together, his sisters are wonderful.
Did you hear what his dad said on Sunday when
he hugged him. I'm so proud of you for not
giving up. I'm so proud of you for not giving up.
And that means he understands exactly what Scotty is all about.
(08:53):
And Scotty is not going to trip over himself in
a personal way, and he is all about winning golf tournaments.
He was like that as a junior, he was like
that in college, and he's liked that as a professional.
I'll give you one quick story. We were in Houston
earlier this year. Steven Jeger, the defending champion, beat Scotty
Scheffler on the last hole a year ago in twenty
(09:15):
twenty four. So I was on the practice putting green
on Wednesday in Houston with Steven Jaeger. Say Steven, what's
the key to playing with Scotty? What's it like playing
with Scotty right now? And he said, I'll tell you what.
He's not intimidating to play with, like Tiger was intimidating
to play with, and Scott he's not intimidating to play with.
(09:36):
That said, really, why is that he goes? Because he's
just such a nice guy. He's congenial, he's polite. He's
not a slow player, he's not a fast player. He
does the right things out on the golf course. He says,
nice shot, He'll chat with you a little bit when
he gets focused. He's focused. But he's not an intimidating person.
He goes, but his greatness is intimidating. His shot making
(09:56):
is intimidating. And when you see his knee, this is
in Houston, this is he had not yet won this year, Claude,
he said, when you see his name on a leaderboard,
you say, here we go again, And this is from
a professional golfer who beat him a year ago. So
Scotty is a singularly focused man when it comes to
his professional golf. He also has his life in order
(10:18):
at home, seemingly too much in order for a twenty
eight year old guy, but you know that's up to him.
And right now, you know it's going to be very,
very very difficult to stop him if he is playing
his best. And he sure played very very well, especially
late on Saturday. One quick thing, Claude, And you know
this more than anybody. I think he won that tournament.
(10:43):
He won that championship on Thursday, yeap one the greats
of the great even good PJA tour players don't always
do this, but the greats do this. They take seventy
fives and make them seventy twos. They take seventy twos
and make them sixty nines. And he he took a
day on Thursday where he was hitting all over the
(11:03):
place and really really scored his golf ball. Then he
had the three hole stretch on Saturday to give him
the cushion which allowed him to hit the ball left
like a fifteen handicap every single drive on Sunday for
the first nine holes, and then as if he's a
team sport athlete. He can't walk to the mound to
talk to the pitcher. He can't take a twenty or
(11:25):
a thirty or a full time out in basketball. He
can't just call a timeout like you do in hockey.
In golf, he can't do that. He reset things on
the back nine when John Ron caught him, and the
thing was over thirty minutes later, and that just speaks
to how great he is.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You mentioned on Thursday in the caddy area on Friday morning,
because DJ was late early, I was in there and
very much like Tiger, very much like Rory, everybody, the caddies,
the coaches, the players that were in there, everybody around
the game was talking about what he did on Thursday.
(12:01):
And I don't think the fans see it the way
that we see it because we know that it's the ultimate.
You can lose a major on the first day, you
can't win it. But he did something that everybody that's
in the game just went, wow, do you see that
(12:21):
finish from Scotty yesterday? And they all just smile and
they shake their head. His caddy Ted Scott, who won
two Masters with Bubba Watson. He's got five now five
Majors that he's caddy four. He said. He doesn't care
about the fame. He doesn't care about the money. Yes,
he gets paid, but what inspires him is so pure.
It's almost like he's an amateur playing for the love
(12:43):
of the game and the love of the competition. It's
like he's Bobby Jones. I think the Ted Scott addition
has been massive for Scotty Sheffler. My uncle Billy, who
you know well, I've had him on the podcast. I
asked him, was it take to be a great caddy?
He said, find a great player. Scotty Scheffler was going
to be a great But I think the team that
(13:04):
he and Ted Scott are on the golf course. They
are both very similar people, very much grounded in faith
and church, and they live their life in private and
in a lot of ways. Say, he reminds me a
little bit of Adam Scott, In't that. I remember when
Adam Scott went to number one in the world and
won the Masters. We were having dinner like three weeks later
(13:25):
or a month later at the Players and we're all
sitting there and I was like, Hey, so, what are
you been doing. He was like, oh, well, Marie and
I got married the other day. I'm like, you're the
number one golfer in the world. You've just won the Masters.
And I think Scotty Scheffler is a great example in
twenty twenty five that if you really want to live
your life in private, it's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Without question.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He's the number one golfer on the planet and he
moves around with an ease. And I also think that
that helps him massively because I think he feels the pressure,
but I don't think I think he looks at it
very differently than some other professional athlete. He doesn't seem
(14:08):
burdened by the pressure.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
No, I think he embraces the pressure. He doesn't fight it.
I asked your father one time, what's the key to
being a great instructor, and he said, very similar to
being a great caddie. Obviously you find a great player.
He goes. But it's part instruction and part sports psychologist.
And Ted Scott is the right sounding board for Scotty.
(14:30):
He's the right religious you know, nature, the right demeanor
for him, knows when to talk Texas football, with him,
knows when to talk four iron off of a side,
he'll alive with him, understands his subject as well as anybody.
And that's a credit to Ted. But it's also a
(14:51):
credit to Scotty because Scotty doesn't have to listen to anybody.
He can do whatever the heck he wants because he's
that great. And I think that, you know, I was
thinking about this the other day. I don't know why
if Full Swing came out next year as opposed to
three years ago, Scotty wouldn't have agreed to do it.
He's not that kind of guy. And I think he
(15:13):
probably I've never asked him about this, but I think
he watched it and said, you know what, I'm not
comfortable with that. And he did nothing wrong. It was
perfectly fine, and the Full Swing show was great. It's
been great for golf. But I just don't think that's
Scotty's cup of tea. And I think Scotty is the
kind of guy who is a rinse and repeat guy.
He's going to celebrate with Meredith Bennett, his parents, his sister,
(15:35):
Randy Blake, his team and everybody, and then he's going
to move along and he'll show up probably at the
Canadian Open or wherever he shows up next, the US
Open at Oakmah, the Memorial, wherever he shows up next,
and just practice, practice, pro am, play four days and
let's see what happens. I just think that he is
motivated by greatness. He's not motivated by anything else. I
(15:59):
also think I think he knows that it was a
big deal to win one of the other three majors.
When you win like John Rahm. It was a very
big deal for John to win the US Open and
the Masters. It's a very big deal. Obviously Rory in
the Grand Slam, but when you know there are a
lot of guys who've won two of the same Greg Norman,
Andy North, Lee Jansen, all fabulous players.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But when you really want.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
To put yourself in a different category, you got to
perform in the other ones as well. You can't just
be a one trick pony, and Scotty certainly is not
a one trick pony man. He if it wasn't golf claude,
you'd call him a baller. He's a baller man. He
just wants to kick your butt and rip your heart out,
and he does it with a smile. And in a
(16:44):
congenial manner, and my goodness, is he great.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You mentioned Randy Smith. He and Randy have been working
together since he was seven years old. Randy Smith's son,
Blake Smith, he's his agent. He's also the agent or
Rooks Kepta. I know Blake very well. I know Randy
very well. Randy is very much in the instructor coach
vein like my father is very old school. They don't
have a lot of gadgets and stuff that influence. I
(17:13):
talked to Randy and we were talking on Friday, and
I was asking him, you know, his attention to detail.
And I talked about this on a podcast that I
did last week where we were talking about Scotty his
attention to detail with the grip and the way he
always kind of goes back to the range and stuff.
I asked Randy about that and he said, we've changed
his grip two times. And I was like, okay, cool,
(17:34):
tell me about it. He goes, yeah, once when he
was thirteen, and I'm like, and then once when he
was in college, and I'm like, that is just so
unbelievably rare in the modern game. His golf swing is
unique in that it's a little bit of kind of
a throwback in that there are so many players. When
(17:55):
you walk up and down the PGA tour now, you
don't see funky grips anymore. You don't see the all
asier type swings. You see everybody kind of the same
size as Scutty now, but they all put the golf
club in a beautiful position, like Adam Scott or Tommy Fleetwood.
And I love the fact that at all of the majors,
regardless it seems as to how he plays, he's always
(18:18):
back at the range working on something. There is a
simplicity in the things that he and Randy work on.
The role of having someone like Randy Smith, who's been
his coach since he was seven, I think is yet
another example of just kind of who he is and
the way that he values people and things off the
(18:39):
golf course.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
He likes consistency, he likes normalcy, and he likes to
be comfortable, and he's very comfortable with his team. He's
very comfortable in the way he lives his life. Like
you said, and what's amazing to me about the Randy
and Scotty relationship is I think and you could speak
to this way more than me. But your first inclination
(19:02):
is to always try to lend your expertise in whatever
field it is. You are one of the great instructors
in the world. Randy is one of the great instructors
in the world. You instruct, So if I came to
you down to the Floridian and needed a lesson, you
would instruct. And that's what you do, whatever the level is.
Randy has told me numerous times. I joke with him
(19:24):
about the footwork and the swing isn't exactly right where
it's supposed to be, and the grip, the whole thing that.
He just kind of looks at me laugh He goes,
you gonna change that? What do you want to do
with that? What am I supposed to do with that?
And I think it's just I think it speaks to
Randy's expertise and his confidence in himself. I also think,
and this is a big thing with me, I'm old again.
(19:46):
I'm going to say that again. Analytics has become so
big in sports. Science has become so big in sports.
I think sometimes we lose sight. I'm not against it,
but I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact.
No matter whether it's an individual sport like golfer, tennis,
or the team sports. I think we lose sight of
the fact of momentum, adrenaline, conditions, time and date, whatever's
(20:09):
going on. Is your wife sick at home? Is she
pregnant and going to be do any time? Who knows
what's going on in your life. Sometimes science and data
can't do that. And when I see Scotti Scheffler, I
see an artist and not a scientist. And to me,
the greats of all time in this sport are artists
and not scientists. Because at the end of the day,
(20:33):
when you've got to pull one out and John Rahm
has tied you, and he's won two majors, and he's
playing great, and you're playing like a dog, and you're
two over through nine and you're hitting every shot left
for whatever reason, when you've got to pull one out,
you've got to rely on your ability, your confidence, and
just the artistry of the sport whatever it is you're playing,
(20:55):
in this case golf, and not the analytics and the
data and the science. So point you just got to
step up there and be a man. And that's what
Scotty did on the back nine yesterday, and it just
proves everything that he and Randy have talked about privately
and publicly for years. This is how I play, Come
get me. And he played great on those last night
(21:16):
holes after playing the first night holes not so great.
I mean, it was not looking great for him there
for a second. There's no way you can convince me
that when John Ram tied him with all that momentum
and guys were getting to within one and two shots
and Scotty was hitting the ball all over the place,
I don't know, man, it was looking squirrely, and he
stepped up. And I think that, to me speaks to
(21:39):
his inner confidence and his ability to adjust. And I
think if you rely too much on science, too much
on data, too much on analytics in sports, at some
point that could get in your way. What can never
get in your way is you being you. Micholson once
told me. I asked him one time, do you think
you won the right amount of turns? And he kind
(22:01):
of looked at me and laugh because what do you mean?
I said, well, forty five six majors and a player's
I mean, Jesus, you're a top ten player in the
history of the sport. Some people think you should have
won seventy times, but you took too many chances. And
he said, I won the exact amount I should have won.
I go, really, why is that? I was just curious?
And he said, because I did it my way. If
I played more conservatively, I wouldn't have won forty five,
(22:23):
six and one. If I would have played my way.
I can live with my resume. And that's exactly what
it is. And I think Scotty's the same, different personality
than Phil, different player than Phil, but Scotty's doing it
his way, Claude, and my goodness, is his way working.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know? I read that. You know we missed every
ball left. And Teddy Scott finally said to him, Hey,
maybe it's just Nam a little bit more right, Maybe
it's just Dame over there. Sure, no one like in
the moment, and you're right with the way that we
are all now in the data and information age and
the technique age that's in the game. The game is
(23:00):
being played while you're on the field. That type of
comment from Teddy Scott, Hey, just maybe just a little
bit more right. No one thinks that, like everybody's gonna think, okay,
is my angle of attack to Steve am I coming
too much from me into out Teddy, Scott just goes, Hey,
just aim more to the right. I thought it was
great blud.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
In baseball, a pitching coach can go to the mound
and say, hey, listen, I'm just seeing that that that
index finger is just a little bit off and you're
you're not You're falling off to the left side, and
that's why your your pitches are not going over the plate.
In basketball, in hockey, in football, in all these different sports,
you can have a coach or a teammate or somebody
(23:43):
say something to you, correct me if I'm wrong, unless
they've changed things at the turn. Scotty can't go over
to Randy Smith and outside the ropes and go, hey, Randy,
anything you see here because every drive is going left. Now,
that's not how it works in golf. So to me,
that speaks vaults to not only the confidence and trust
(24:03):
that Ted has to say something like that, but the
confidence and the ability that Scotty has to take a
half step back and go, yeah, you know what, let's
do that, and then it feels good and then he goes.
I just think that there's a lot to him in
a very simplistic way, and it is wonderful to watch,
and I know we're going crazy here talking about him. McElroy.
(24:26):
We were talking about him the day after the Masters,
after winning the career Grand Slam, but he goes about
his business in a different way. I think those two
have separated themselves from the rest of the guys right now.
Things could change, you know, Xander could change and get
back on track and all these different guys. But right now,
it's the Scotty and Rory show and going to Oakmont
(24:48):
I think is going to be a lot of fun because,
as you said, I don't think there's a lot stopping
Scotty right now other than Rory. If Rory does figure
out that driver for whatever reason, he did not play
well last week a Quel Hollow, so you know who knows.
But Scottie right now is just awesome, awesome, all right, So.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Put you on the spot who ends their career with
more majors. We've got Brooks at five, yeah, got three
at five. We've got Scotty and Jordan at three, Rom Bryson, Xander,
Maricoo and JT at two. So if you had to
put your money on it right now, because again we
can sit here and argue and talk and debate about
the Tiger Scotty comparisons, but you can't go back in
(25:29):
time and bring prime Tiger to this year. Right now.
I think ry McElroy is you know, I mean, just
won the Grand Slam. I don't think his best golf
is behind him. I think he's still going to be
a favorite to win every major for the next five years.
So out of that group, who you putting your money
on to have and what's the ceiling, right? Who gets
(25:51):
to seven? Who gets to maybe eight? Can one of
these guys get to double digits.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I think Rory is going to get to seven, maybe eight.
I think Scotty's eight years younger, maybe seven years younger,
I believe, and I think Scotty will pass him. Brooks
is just so great at these big events. I think
that there might be another one in there for Brooks
to get to six. They're just so hard to win.
(26:22):
Would Jack famously tell me one time, Let me get
this right, you can't find your game at a major.
You have to bring your game to a major, is
what Jack once told me. So you get four shots
out of the year, you've got to be prepped and
ready to go. But if I had to put my
house on one guy, even though he's two behind Brooks
(26:42):
and Rory. Right now, I think he's only twenty eight
years of age, and because of all the things we've
already talked about, his life is perfectly in order. Everything
right now is seemingly working for Scotty. If he stays healthy,
I think Scotty will surpass Brooks and Rory, and I
think he would be the one in that group anyway
(27:03):
who could potentially get to double digits. Potentially, but there's
a long long way to go. When we left twenty
fourteen and McElroy had already won three of the four
legs of the Crater, I thought he'd have ten by
now two. And you just never know. You just never know.
I do think, however, I do think Claude, and maybe
(27:23):
I'm wrong, but I think what happened in the last
eleven years at the Majors, not the regular events, because
Rory certainly won a bunch, but at the Majors he
might do what he was supposed to do in the
next eleven years from thirty five to forty six, that
he was supposed to do from twenty four to thirty
five and end up with seven or eight majors, which
is what we all thought was going to happen. Maybe
(27:45):
even ten, who knows. But I think McElroy is in
a different category than everybody else out there, except for Scotty,
but I probably just because of age and opportunities going forward.
I would have to say, even though he's two behind
him right now, I would say Scotty if I had
to put my house on it. You, Yeah, I mean,
(28:05):
I think.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean, I definitely think Rom is going to be
a factor. I think Bryson is definitely going to be
a factor. Just before I get to Bryson and Rom.
Strange week for Rory, the driver's testing issue didn't play
well and no media for four days. Shane and Rorty
have both commented that they think that sometimes golf is
(28:26):
a little different than other sports. That in other sports
it's mandatory, right, you can't skip right like NFL, NBA,
you have to. It's contractual, it's in the contract you
have to do media. Rory chose to do no media
for four days. Masters Champion.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You make anything of that, Yeah, I think it's bad.
I think it's a bad look. But I also think
that people need to understand this. This is a very
clear distinction here between the athletes and the media and
the world of golf. They don't owe the media anything.
They do owe the golf world something, and the media
(29:06):
happens to be the conduit between the greatest players in
the world and the golf world. So to me, a
player cannot just talk when things are going great. A
player has got to stand there and take it. Greg
Norman in ninety six, Ernie else in two thousand and four,
(29:27):
Jean van Develd in ninety nine, go back in all time,
you know, you name it. Guys have to stand Phil
Mickelson and six at wingfoot. You gotta stand there and
take it, because, you know what, whether it's mandatory or not,
it's part of the job. You have sponsors, you have fans,
and you have the golf world at large, and the
(29:48):
media happens to be the conduit between you and them.
You don't owe the media anything, but I do think
you owe the golf world something. And I think it
was a mistake. I think he made a mistake last
year at Pinehurst, and I think he made a mistake
this past week. All four days. To me, that's weird.
But I will say the face of the driver issue, Claude,
(30:12):
This sport can be so great in its traditions, but
it can also be so stupid in his traditions. Can
we get some transparency? Can we test every week? Can
we test every driver every week? Because you're killing the player.
You are allowing these wackos on social media to say
(30:34):
stupid things like, well, Rory cheated to win the Masters
because he didn't have a driver that was conforming. Rory
didn't cheat, Scott, he didn't cheat. It happens every week.
You and I know this. Xander Schafflee at Royal Port
Rush didn't cheat and he was hearing it from some people.
You and I both know this. Everybody in and around
professional golf knows that these guys get tested, but not
every one of them does. And they all should be tested.
(30:56):
And the USGA, the PGA of America, the R and N,
the PGA Tour, Live Golf, everybody in the ecosystem DP
World Tour, everybody in the ecosystem of professional golf should
be transparent with suspensions and with fines, with slow play,
and also with this, the idea that you're protecting the
(31:19):
player is just a false narrative. This is not thirty
years ago. Social media stuff travels and bad stuff can
happen when you're not transparent, and I think it's unfair
to the players. It's unfair to Rory, unfair to Scotty
and every other player who has a driver taken away
unbeknownst to them. They did not cheat, and the RNA
(31:42):
and the USGA should absolutely be transparent with that, and
they should test every driver, not the third of the field.
That's ridiculous. They got to change that club.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I think so. I mean, I think it was Tuesday.
We're at the Masters, were on the driving range. My
dad and I were talking to Phil and Phil was
hitting I've already said, but you I've never driven it better.
I'm driving it long and everything. They tested his driver
Wednesday morning. He was twenty minutes late for the for
the game that he was going to play with DJ,
and his driver got taken out. First thing that happened.
DJ's on the range. It's either Monday or early Tuesday.
(32:15):
I think it was Tuesday they came and tested his driver.
I agree with you that the governing bodies of the
four Majors, I do think have an obligation to make
it so as it doesn't look to the fans, right,
these guys are doing something wrong that the exactly work
that you know, they're stealing signs like they do in
other sports. I do think that four times a year
(32:38):
they could test everybody's driver if that's an issue.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, it's a one hundred Hey, test all you want.
But protect the player, yeah, sure. Now, if a player's cheating,
then a player's cheating. This is not a player cheating.
This is not someone nudging a ball or doing something goofy.
This is a testing issue with drivers in new technology
(33:02):
and thin club faces, and sometimes after you hit that
driver for a year like Scotty has a billion times,
it's not going to be conforming and the player does
not know that. So enough already with throwing these players
under the bus, it's ridiculous that the governing bodies don't
protect them, in my opinion, in this particular instance, if
a player cheats by the way, Claude, hey, I'm all
(33:23):
four you knowing it. Social media can know it, but
in this particular case, protect the players. Man, It's just
not right.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah. And here's the thing. I mean, there's nobody out
there with their drivers. I mean, I've been on tour,
gone to a truck from a manufacturer, And today I've
got a junior player I'm working with. Any chance that
you could build a driver for him and they will
look at the numbers on the driver and go, yeah,
give him this one. Because he's a junior golfer. It
wouldn't pass a test on the PGA Tour. A tour
(33:53):
player couldn't use it. So yeah, because the face is
just a little bit hot and we would never run
the risk of giving that to a player.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Bryson, Yeah, the fans seem to love this guy. Is
Bryson a needle mover in the game right now?
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I think Bryson Rory And interestingly, Scotty's greatness is starting
to catch on. Not his personality per se, like Stephen
Jeger said, and the raw ross stuff and the fist
pumps and the yelling and screaming, but his greatness is
the CJ Cup, which he won by a million shots.
The ratings were way way up and he had a
(34:34):
huge lead. So I was always I'm not a huge
ratings guy, but it is interesting to see if Scotty
can jump into that. Fray Bryson as popular as anybody
in the world of golf, whether you want to call
them antics or just energy. Uh, it's it's it's infectious.
And he gives the people what they want called. He
(34:56):
high fives and low fives kids as he walks from
greens to Te's. You know, he he gets them pumped
up doing his you know thing with the hands in
the air. And you know what, he's good for the
game man, you know. I mean, people can say what
they want, whether they think it's genuine or not, whether
they think it's a fraud or not. Get to know
him a little bit. He's a little different than most
people think. Is he a little bit on the quirky side,
(35:18):
a little bit on the odter side, the most normal normal,
normal normal people. Yeah, but you know what, he's an
extraordinary talent. And he also has a mind that probably
you know, maybe you but I can't fathom being that bright.
I can't have him being that bright. And I think
he's become a very very popular player. You can make
a strong case he's one two three as far as
(35:39):
popularity in the world.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
He's the complete one hundred and eighty degree opposite of
Scotti Scheffler. He lives his life openly, he's using social media.
What do you notice about his game that is impressing you,
because I mean he's been all over the map like
he's been. He was doing long drive. He got finished
(36:00):
second the World Long Dry Championship. I mean he got
Remember when we came back from COVID, he looked like
a high school middle linebacker. But as someone that watches
his game, what has impressed you about the arc and
the evolution of his game.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I think his short game is outrageous. With six irons,
by the way exactly he bombs the ball off the tee.
He hits the ball incredibly high. You know, the wind
catches it a lot because he hits such a high ball.
But his short game, his chipping and pitching claude are remarkable,
(36:36):
I mean outrageously great. And what happens is when guys
are bombing the ball and they're crushing the ball and
the driving part of the game is so sexy, and
the short game is not as sexy as far as
watching it goes. It gets lost in the shuffle, and
I think people don't understand and they're getting a great
understanding of it now at just how amazing his short
(36:58):
game is. I also think that you know, his work
ethic is second to none. Now, it's not exactly the
work ethic that I would probably take. It's not the
work ethic that you would probably take, but it works
for him. Scotty not on social media, Bryson is Scotty
would never hit golf balls over his house. He doesn't
want anybody seeing where he lives. Bryson hits golf balls
(37:19):
over his house, goes on YouTube, has millions of followers
and has a great time with it. Hey, different strokes
for different folks. But the way he goes about his
business on the golf course is incredible to watch, and
the way he goes about his business off the golf course.
He is great with kids, is great with golf fans.
He is not faking that. He's been a big turnaround
(37:42):
as far as what people think of Bryson, and I
think that has everything to do with his maturity. He's
getting older, and I just think he's he's enjoying it. Man.
He has a lot of fun with the game, with
the competition, and I also think he has a lot
of fun with himself. So, you know, good for him
for turning things around in that regard. But as far
as his game goes, every time I see him chip
(38:05):
and pitch, I just like wow. I mean, it's just wow.
If his iron play ever gets up to snuff compared
to what his short game is now, then it's gonna
be a lot of Bryson on leaderboards every single time
we see him.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
If you look at the last six majors he's played
until last year, six at the Masters, second at the PGA,
wins the US Open, Okay gets cut at the Open Championship,
fifth at the Masters this year, tied for second. I
get to see him week in and week out on
lub Tanzi. He hits balls until dark after every single round,
(38:39):
whether he shot sixty two or whether he's shot seventy two.
He's the last person on the range every single day,
every single day. And I just don't think he gets
enough credit for his work ethic what I just read
about his majors in the last year and a half,
(39:00):
do you expect him to be one of those guys
now that is just going to be on a major
championship leader board for the next three to five years.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Absolutely, And by the way, to our point earlier, he
knows he needs to win something other than two US Opens.
He needs to get a different leg of the career
Grand Slam, not all four of them. He would love that, obviously,
but he doesn't want to be one of those guys.
Who ah, I'm a two time US Open winner and
didn't win any of the other ones. And he is
so consistent at these majors as numbers you're reeled off
(39:30):
are incredible, and you know, look, you've said this to
me for years when we're out having a drink. You
just have to give yourself an opportunity, you know, You've
got to give yourself an opportunity. To the point earlier,
Scotty gave himself, gave himself that opportunity on Thursday by
digging it out of the dirt per se to shoot
that sixty nine. Bryson does it all the time. And
the more you put yourself in those you know, leaderboards
(39:54):
late on Sunday, the better chance you have of clipping
one of these things off. I don't think Bryson de
Shamba is going anyway where anytime soon. At these major championships,
he really brings him. Remember when Brooks said years ago,
I think it's easier to win majors than it is
to win regular events because there's just a certain number
of players who just don't think they have the belief
to get it done. Bryson knows he can get it done.
(40:16):
He's crossed the finish line twice and I don't think
he's gonna stop it too.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
You talked about John Rahm. I think it was great
to see John Rahm get back into it. He did
everything you needed to do to get to the back
nine that you have to do to stay in contention
in a major. He was making the long cutts, but
the no birdies at Quail Hollow. I mean, Hunter may
haven't made a comment last week about you know, Quail
Hollow's like a Kardashian It looks great, but there's no
(40:43):
substance and stuff. But if you think about a major
championship venue, I think we had one last week at
Quail Hollow in Charlotte, where you knew that there were
four legit birdie chances for the entire round, right, you
had to take care of the three par fives, right,
so he had to take care of seven, had to
(41:03):
take care of ten, had to take care of fifteen,
and then fourteen's drivable. They put it that way. But
other than that, you're just trying to hang on. So
in that respect, John Rahm has that type of game,
but he just didn't get it done on the holes
that he needed to and then after that you got
to just try and fire at every flag. And he
(41:24):
lived in But because John Rahm went to live and
there are a lot of people. You know, my dad
was doing TV for Sky at the Masters and somebody
sent me a clip. My Dad's going, yeah, I mean,
Don Rom's been playing terrible lately. I had dinner with
him that I said, Dad isn't finished outside the top
ten like two and a half years, right. So the
game that John Rahm has, I still think if there's
(41:47):
a real world golf rankings, how he's not in the
top ten. John Rahm is one of the top ten,
top five best players in the world in my opinion,
and I think the eye test shows that. Good to
see him back in the mix in a major I
think he needed that. I think the game needs that.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Oh one hundred percent. It was great to see him back,
great to see him playing well. I will say, I
don't know how long it takes for me to think
that something is a trend as opposed to an anomaly.
But last year when we were in Paris, he had
a three shot lead I think it was a three
shot lead on the back nine and completely collapsed. He
didn't really play a factor or a role in the Masters.
(42:24):
It was the Bryson and Rory show. And then the
next major championship he's tied for the lead, playing great
and then basically collapsed on Monday at Quile Hollow. I
think about worried about it, but it is interesting in
his last two big spots he has not been able
to close when he basically had it in his hands
if he continued to play well. But John is a
(42:45):
freakiusly great player, incredibly competitive, works his butt off. I
think he's one of those guys like Bryson who's going
to be around for a long time in major championships. Look,
he went over to Live and everybody thought that's going
to be the end of John Well. They thought that
about Brooks and he wanted o kill. They thought that
about Bryce and he wanted Pineers. John rom is going
(43:06):
to be perfectly fine. I don't care what the official
World Golf ranking says. Doesn't matter to me. If John
Rahm is not one of your five or eight top
players in the world, then you don't understand golf.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yeah, I mean, listen. I sent a message as soon
as he started making double bogies and stuff. I sent
a message to a friend of mine. I said, wait
for all the comments about they only play fifty four
holes and they can't close, and your boy, the ultimate
lib hater, randall on Que last night going on and
on about this matres are hard to win. And if
(43:40):
you look at six of the top ten players in
the official World Golf rankings last week missed the Cup, JT. Ludwig,
Jackie Russell, Henley Sepstrak and who just won, and Shane,
they don't make the cut. And are we still I mean,
I can go on my phone right now and it
takes two seconds for me to find video and pictures
(44:02):
from Mars right and we're still trying to talk about
the fact that live in the PJA. I mean, I
think the game and I did a podcast about this
last week. Say, I think you can make an argument
that for all everyone wants to talk about the doom
and gloom, and I keep seeing amazing performances on the
(44:26):
course from the best players in the world, and good
players play bad, right, it happens like you're not gonna
play good every week. You're not gonna have your best stuff.
And you know, we've seen some of the best players
in the world, some of the big young superstars, and
a kid like Ludvig Goberg, I mean, you know, come
(44:48):
close to missing the cut. Does that mean that his
game is bad? Does that mean that he's not a
great player? Does that mean he doesn't have a great
future because he misses the cut in a major? If
you want to go down that route, you could say, okay, well,
these guys obviously aren't any good because they don't even
make the cuts. If you're going to beat somebody up
because he doesn't get it done on Sunday when he
(45:10):
has a chance to win, when he takes the lead,
I just can't we just get pass all of this
stuff at this point?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
No, No, it won't happen because there are haters out there. Claude.
It's a look, I don't care what tour you're on.
If you're a great player, you're a great player. And
sometimes great players in this sport in particular, just have
bad days. And if you have one bad day, and
that's Thursday or Friday. Then the chances are you're not
going to make the cut and be able to play
on Saturday and Sunday. I mean, what do you want?
You can't have it both ways. You know. I got
(45:40):
a text yesterday. I can't believe Rora didn't shoot a
Sunday sixty three or sixty four to tie for seventh
and have just this random top ten. I'm like, what
do you odut of your mind? I go, you know,
sometimes people just don't have it. It's okay, it's a
hard golf I mean, it's just a hard course. It's
a hard game. I mean, my gosh, And you know,
I just think you know a lot of people, you know,
(46:00):
try to find the negatives. I'd tell my kids all
the time, you know, stay positive. It cost the same. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Lastly, going back to Scotty, you talked about he doesn't
really and we talked about it. He doesn't really have
any weaknesses. And I think the thing that makes me
think his Major championship ceiling is so high is I
don't think there's a golf course, let alone the ones
they play in the majors. I mean, if you wanted
Augusta twice, you got to feel, you know, Phil felt
that way, You got to feel like you could win
(46:28):
another one of those right now that he's want to PGA.
If you look at the venues that we're going to
for the last two majors in Congressional, I mean there
are big ballparks and then there's Oakama. To me, it's
the hardest golf course on the planet. I've heard they've
lengthened it. It looks like the rough is knee height.
And then the Open Championship back to Port Rush. I
(46:51):
don't see conditions that Scotty Scheffler's game doesn't match. What
do you think about the upcoming two remaining majors the
year for Scotty to clip off some more?
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I think I think both of those venues are great
for a guy like Scotty. I don't think there's a
place on the planet that isn't good for Scotty right now,
that little that little cut he has, that little faraway
finder he has, I mean, my god, are you kidding me?
And I also think there's golf courses are good for
Rory McRoy as well, if he straightens out the driver.
(47:26):
You know, he didn't drive it well last week. Oh well,
he didn't drive it great the week before the Truest. Okay,
he'll be okay. I mean he's Rory McElroy and he's
an accomplished player. But for Scotty, I think that you know,
it's part play and it's part mindset, and I think that,
like you said, nothing bothers the guy. Conditions don't bother him,
(47:47):
you know, not being able to prepare the way he
wanted to, you know, with Monday rain at Kuail Hollow
didn't bother him, the front nine yesterday, the front nine
on Sunday didn't bother him. Not playing great on Thursday,
but eking out that sixty nine. He doesn't get phased
by things. So if he hits it in the rough
at Oakmont, which you're going to do at some point,
(48:08):
he'll be okay. And I think Royal Port rush. I
think the Open Championship is the one that's the most
random because it's just it's a weather conditions type of
thing and you just never know. But I've been to
that golf course. You have too. We were there in
twenty nineteen when Shane Lowry won. I mean, you can't
tell me that he's not going to be the favorite.
Going into Oakmont, and you can't tell me that he's
(48:29):
not going to be the favorite going into Royal Port
Rush as well. I think that both of those venues,
with his game and his mind, it's just a tough,
tough combination right now to be able to beat those
two things.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
And I think last week was a great week for
European Writer Cup captain Luke Donald, with John Rahm playing
route again, Matt Fitzpatrick being on the leaderboard again, and
then for Keegan Bradley who is playing like he's trying
to make the team, Bryson and Scotty Scheffler. I mean,
looking forward to September, I think this last major is
(49:06):
going a long way to kind of go okay. Maybe
we are going to see some familiar faces because certainly
on the US side, you're probably going to have some
rookies Setstraka winning who played great in Rome. I think
it's great for Luke, I think Fitzi coming back and
playing good again in a major, and I think John
Rahm playing good is great. And I think the majors
(49:27):
are all going to be great this year, and I
think we're in for a good Ryder Cup. What are
you looking forward to for the rest of the summer
pre Rider Cup, and who do you think needs to
make a move and kind of put themselves kind of
on the radar or on the map. For both Luke
and Keegan, I.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Think that first of all, to see someone in the
second session on Friday afternoon with cutoff jeene shorts and
white sox halfway up his ankles and a white tank
top tucked in with no belt with nine beer cups
stacked over his chest, screaming and yelling at the Europeans
(50:07):
on Long Island at Bethpage is going to be sensational
if you want to have that vision in your head
of that guy who's going to be screaming and yelling.
I think Koepka, who went to that dinner with Keegan
and Bryson, is clearly on the radar. I think he
needs to play well to prove that he needs to
(50:27):
be a pick if he's outside of the number. As
far as the Europeans go, I think Fitzpatrick, like you said,
stepped up. I think Stepstrak is a fabulous player and
he's not afraid of the moment. Didn't play well last week.
I think it's stacking up to be you get a
lot of really good players playing well. And like we
(50:48):
said earlier, what Jack said, you bring your game to
the big events. You don't find your game at the
big events. And I think right now, with these majors
the way they're stacked up. When they moved the PGA
from August to May, I remember thinking, I love that.
I love having it just before football season. I always
thought it was cool. I understand why they did it
business wise, but with them stacked up month to month
(51:09):
to month to month, these guys are playing well. I
think we're gonna go to Oakmont. Rom US Open winner Bryson,
two time US Open winner Brooks. Koepka all right, two
time US Open winner, three time two time US Open winner.
McElroy's playing, you know, has gotten three wins, including the
players and a master's. Scottie Scheffler has now kicked it
(51:29):
into gear. Xander is starting to play better golf coming
off the injury. Justin Thomas got the win for the
first time in a while. He's someone who needed to
do something to prove to Keegan. You know, I think
that I think lud vig Oldberg is someone who is
going to be needed on the European side. Of things,
(51:50):
and when you know, when depth becomes an issue, I
think it becomes more of an issue on the European
side than it does on the American side. And right now,
if you were playing the Ryder Cup next week, without
these two majors coming up, without the FedEx Cup playoffs,
without the rest of the lib golf season, you played
the Ryder Cup this coming weekend, I think the Europeans probably,
(52:13):
I don't have they be favored, but may be real
close right now. And I think Keegan and Luke are
in very good shape. But as you know, it's a
long way to go. You know, he had a few
more months to go, But right now you have a
lot of players on both sides playing great golf. To me,
that's what I'm looking forward to the most. Can these
guys sustain it. Can Rory get back on track after
(52:35):
the Masters? Can Scottie sustain it? Can Xander take a
step forward after doing what he did last year? Can
Ludwig put himself in a different category and get one
of these next two major championships by the way, Can
Shane Lowry, you know, get going a little bit and
be just completely and utterly solidified. For Luke Donald. There's
(52:56):
a lot of great golfers out there playing good golf.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
One of the superstars, one of the I mean, he
played unbelievable in Rome for the European side, Victor Hovelin.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Oh yeah, he's playing that little bit.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Signs of life that the science experiment might, you know,
be somewhat over. Any chance if Keegan plays good for
the rest of the summer and he picks himself.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
No chance. I think if he's inside the number, he
will gladly be one of the twelve, probably play Sunday
singles only and that's it. But if he's in a
pick situation, I just don't think he's the kind of
guy who's going to say, yeah, I'm gonna pick myself
over somebody else. I'm just gonna be the captain. But
if he earns his way on, he's not going to
(53:37):
give up that spot and take someone else. I think
he'll just play in the Sunday singles and that's it.
But I think Hegan understands his place, knows the history
of it all. It'd be very cool to be a
playing captain, but I think he'd want to earn it.
I don't think he'd want to pick himself. I don't think, well,
a lot to play for for the rest of the summer.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Who's great seeing you at the Master Sanzy and look
for or to seeing you at Congressional in about three weeks.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, Ka, it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Great to talk to you Cloud.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Be good, Bude.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
So that was Steve Sands and like I said, he's
one of the most recognizable voices in the game and
someone whose opinion I respect as well. And like I
said last week on the pod, I think the games
are a great place. I think Scotti Schiffer winning majors
is great for the game. I think the run that
he's on is fantastic, and I think we're in for
a really, really good summer of golf. Son of a
(54:30):
Butcher comes to you most every week Greate Review, subscribe
wherever you get your podcast. It's the Son of a
Butcher Podcast.
It's the Son of a Butcher podcast from your host,
Claude Harmon. My guest is one of the voices of
Golf Channel and NBC Golf, and I can't think of
anyone to talk about the second major of the year
that's just finished up in Quail Hollow, Greensboro. That's how
much I'm traveling. Surprising, not surprising, Sancy, I mean, Scottie Scheffler. Man,
(00:22):
it's he's he's good.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, you're great, and it's Charlotte not Greensboro. Come on,
I mean, come on, I've got no Claude Harmon, I mean,
what are we doing here, Claude, Quail Hollow. Johnny Harris
would be very upset with you to say Greensboro not Charlotte. Look, man,
this guy is relentless. He is a relentless competitor. We
(00:48):
haven't seen anything like this in quite some time, and
I think this is the first time I can unequivocally
say when he is at his best, he is the best.
I know, he's right number one, and that's an easy
thing to say. But a little bit of question. Rory
career Grand Slam Xander wins two majors last year. You
know you never know he'd only won only in quotations
(01:11):
two majors at the same venue. Now it's a second
leg of the four. I think he's in a completely
different category now, Claude, and I don't think it's gonna
stop anytime soon. Doesn't mean that he's not gonna it
doesn't mean he's gonna win every time. But I don't
think his relentless pursuit is going to stop anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Last four seasons, let me just throw some numbers at you.
Eighty two starts, forty five top fives, eighteen wins, three majors,
two players championship, won a gold medal. It's missed four cuts.
I think the last cutting miss was in Memphis in
twenty twenty two. Obviously, plays a lot of tournaments now
where there are no cuts. Seventy five million in official money,
(01:50):
just past DJ one hundred and forty weeks at world
number one. The obvious comparison when you throw up Steve
numbers like that is everybody gets compared to Tiger Woods.
And we've always been talking where's the next Tiger Woods?
And I think, I mean it's a hard comparison because
Tiger did it for almost twenty years fifteen years and dominated.
(02:15):
But in your opinion, is someone that sees Scotty day
in and day out. You follow him, you commentate on him,
you interview him. Is this as good as we've seen
from a non Tiger Woods, including the stuff that Rory
McElroy has done over the last because I think Rory's
had that career lengthwise, He's you know, was sitting on
(02:36):
four majors, just got the Grand Slam. I think Rory's
in a category by himself as well. But the guy
just we played a practice on DJ, played a practice
round with him and Gary Woodland on Monday, and it's
impressive without being impressive, Like he hits the drive. I
don't think he gets enough credit for how goody hits
the driver. I don't think he gets enough credit for
(02:58):
how long he is. I don't think if short game
gets enough credit. And when you watch him, I think
because the feet are all over the place, and I
mean he almost fell down three times. I'm fifteen. He
hit it on the slope on the par five a
little above his feet on Monday, and he hit this
beautiful high draw in there almost fell over. But Shane
(03:20):
Lowry said to me last year he's impressive without being impressive.
But the numbers are a joke. How good they are.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, there's nothing worse to me in sports than rubbing
the anointing oil all over somebody before its time. The
comparisons are getting really, really close to being fair, Claude,
like you said, I mean, there have been players, you
know that debate hot versus great. Every good PGA Tour
players has a hot run. Doesn't mean majors, but he
(03:49):
has a hot run. But if you look at Padrick
Harrington three majors in two seasons, Nick Price three majors
in three seasons, Rory McElroy four majors in three seasons
eleven to fourteen, four seasons, I guess, Jordan Spieth three
majors from fifteen to seventeen. You know, can Scotty sustain it?
What's the difference between Scotty and those guys. I mean,
(04:11):
those guys are all time great players, but they are
not quite in the category of those top ten players
of all time, top twelve, fifteen players of all time,
not just yet except McElroy. Now mclroy has sustained it
over time. The thing that makes me think that Scotty
has the ability to sustain this. And remember Claude, this
(04:33):
is crazy. Twenty seven months ago he had no wins
on the PGA Tour none, none, I mean, think about that,
and now he has, is it right? Twenty seven? When
did you win twenty two? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, one in twenty two at Phoenix, which managed it.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So that's three years ago. So we're talking thirty six,
you know, thirty eight months ago he had no wins.
Now he has fifteen, including three majors and two players
that's insane. And when he did and the FedEx Cup
end Player of the Year and number one. And if
there was a money list, the money list, they don't
have any and all name and all all of them.
(05:11):
By the way, he won a million times when he
was a kid. He won a million times at Texas.
He took his time a little bit to get out
of the PGA Tour, little Cornferry Tour action. All of
a sudden he's blistering the field. Here's what makes me
think he can sustain this. Rory, I guess from eleven
to fourteen had this, but not Nick and not Jordan.
(05:32):
If he doesn't win, Claude he's top eight every time.
There's no miscut tye for fifty seventh win, tye for eleventh,
tie for fourth, ty for twenty ninth win. It's win
eighth six, four win win third, ninth six.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's nuts.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
His consistency is beyond belief. And I do think, I
really do think we are, without being premature about it,
we're looking at something really really special here in Scotty Well.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
We had the hand injury early, so we started late,
and I think the worst finish he has this year
I was looking at the other day is like twenty
second or twenty fifth, right, and then if you look
at the stats from last week, you know it's first
in total strokes game, he's fifth off the tee, fourteenth
in approach, fifth around the greens, Tita green, he's number one,
twenty third. And putting, I mean there was a time
(06:27):
a couple of years ago where people were talking about
he's a bad putter. I'm like, the guy's won eighteen times, yea,
how the hell can you be a bad putter. But
my point behind it is he doesn't have this thing
that stands out when you watch Rory McElroy play golf
and you watch the things that he does. He has
(06:47):
a differentiator. Right, the driver is a huge differentiator, the
ability that he has to hit the golf behind. And
I think a lot of players that dominate and that
are superstars in golf, Sansy have something that you know,
Jordan was the greatest putter on the planet from twenty
to forty feet, right, you know these guys when Brooks
(07:08):
was on his dominant run, he was doing things DJ
dominated with the driver. Scotty dominates because I think he
is the superpower. I think the way that he goes
about his life, the way he lives his life, both
on and off the golf course, is I think very unique.
He doesn't have social media. He and his wife Mayor
(07:30):
they play puzzles at night. You know, he's not doing
the things that a lot of modern day athletes in
twenty twenty five are doing. You've interviewed him, you've been
around him. What do you think makes him special as
a person.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I think the most incredible thing about him and the era. Look,
you and I are much older than he is. You know,
he's twenty eight years old. He's grown up in a
social media era. He's grown up in a you know,
a posting era. He's grown up in an era where
whether you're going out for a scoop of ice cream
or you're going on a cool vacation, that you just
(08:07):
tell the world exactly what you're doing at all times,
not in a show off way, but just because that's
what kids do. That's what people do in this era.
I have never been around anybody in sports where and
I mean this sincerely, in all sports. He cares about
winning tournaments and that's it. The endorsements come with play.
(08:29):
The social media aspect, as you said, is mil He's
married to the woman of his dreams. He's got a child,
high separt, his parents are together, his sisters are wonderful.
Did you hear what his dad said on Sunday when
he hugged him. I'm so proud of you for not
giving up. I'm so proud of you for not giving up.
And that means he understands exactly what Scotty is all about.
(08:53):
And Scotty is not going to trip over himself in
a personal way, and he is all about winning golf tournaments.
He was like that as a junior, he was like
that in college, and he's liked that as a professional.
I'll give you one quick story. We were in Houston
earlier this year. Steven Jeger, the defending champion, beat Scotty
Scheffler on the last hole a year ago in twenty
(09:15):
twenty four. So I was on the practice putting green
on Wednesday in Houston with Steven Jaeger. Say Steven, what's
the key to playing with Scotty? What's it like playing
with Scotty right now? And he said, I'll tell you what.
He's not intimidating to play with, like Tiger was intimidating
to play with, and Scott he's not intimidating to play with.
(09:36):
That said, really, why is that he goes? Because he's
just such a nice guy. He's congenial, he's polite. He's
not a slow player, he's not a fast player. He
does the right things out on the golf course. He says,
nice shot, He'll chat with you a little bit when
he gets focused. He's focused. But he's not an intimidating person.
He goes, but his greatness is intimidating. His shot making
(09:56):
is intimidating. And when you see his knee, this is
in Houston, this is he had not yet won this year, Claude,
he said, when you see his name on a leaderboard,
you say, here we go again, And this is from
a professional golfer who beat him a year ago. So
Scotty is a singularly focused man when it comes to
his professional golf. He also has his life in order
(10:18):
at home, seemingly too much in order for a twenty
eight year old guy, but you know that's up to him.
And right now, you know it's going to be very,
very very difficult to stop him if he is playing
his best. And he sure played very very well, especially
late on Saturday. One quick thing, Claude, And you know
this more than anybody. I think he won that tournament.
(10:43):
He won that championship on Thursday, yeap one the greats
of the great even good PJA tour players don't always
do this, but the greats do this. They take seventy
fives and make them seventy twos. They take seventy twos
and make them sixty nines. And he he took a
day on Thursday where he was hitting all over the
(11:03):
place and really really scored his golf ball. Then he
had the three hole stretch on Saturday to give him
the cushion which allowed him to hit the ball left
like a fifteen handicap every single drive on Sunday for
the first nine holes, and then as if he's a
team sport athlete. He can't walk to the mound to
talk to the pitcher. He can't take a twenty or
(11:25):
a thirty or a full time out in basketball. He
can't just call a timeout like you do in hockey.
In golf, he can't do that. He reset things on
the back nine when John Ron caught him, and the
thing was over thirty minutes later, and that just speaks
to how great he is.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You mentioned on Thursday in the caddy area on Friday morning,
because DJ was late early, I was in there and
very much like Tiger, very much like Rory, everybody, the caddies,
the coaches, the players that were in there, everybody around
the game was talking about what he did on Thursday.
(12:01):
And I don't think the fans see it the way
that we see it because we know that it's the ultimate.
You can lose a major on the first day, you
can't win it. But he did something that everybody that's
in the game just went, wow, do you see that
(12:21):
finish from Scotty yesterday? And they all just smile and
they shake their head. His caddy Ted Scott, who won
two Masters with Bubba Watson. He's got five now five
Majors that he's caddy four. He said. He doesn't care
about the fame. He doesn't care about the money. Yes,
he gets paid, but what inspires him is so pure.
It's almost like he's an amateur playing for the love
(12:43):
of the game and the love of the competition. It's
like he's Bobby Jones. I think the Ted Scott addition
has been massive for Scotty Sheffler. My uncle Billy, who
you know well, I've had him on the podcast. I
asked him, was it take to be a great caddy?
He said, find a great player. Scotty Scheffler was going
to be a great But I think the team that
(13:04):
he and Ted Scott are on the golf course. They
are both very similar people, very much grounded in faith
and church, and they live their life in private and
in a lot of ways. Say, he reminds me a
little bit of Adam Scott, In't that. I remember when
Adam Scott went to number one in the world and
won the Masters. We were having dinner like three weeks later
(13:25):
or a month later at the Players and we're all
sitting there and I was like, Hey, so, what are
you been doing. He was like, oh, well, Marie and
I got married the other day. I'm like, you're the
number one golfer in the world. You've just won the Masters.
And I think Scotty Scheffler is a great example in
twenty twenty five that if you really want to live
your life in private, it's pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Without question.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He's the number one golfer on the planet and he
moves around with an ease. And I also think that
that helps him massively because I think he feels the pressure,
but I don't think I think he looks at it
very differently than some other professional athlete. He doesn't seem
(14:08):
burdened by the pressure.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
No, I think he embraces the pressure. He doesn't fight it.
I asked your father one time, what's the key to
being a great instructor, and he said, very similar to
being a great caddie. Obviously you find a great player.
He goes. But it's part instruction and part sports psychologist.
And Ted Scott is the right sounding board for Scotty.
(14:30):
He's the right religious you know, nature, the right demeanor
for him, knows when to talk Texas football, with him,
knows when to talk four iron off of a side,
he'll alive with him, understands his subject as well as anybody.
And that's a credit to Ted. But it's also a
(14:51):
credit to Scotty because Scotty doesn't have to listen to anybody.
He can do whatever the heck he wants because he's
that great. And I think that, you know, I was
thinking about this the other day. I don't know why
if Full Swing came out next year as opposed to
three years ago, Scotty wouldn't have agreed to do it.
He's not that kind of guy. And I think he
(15:13):
probably I've never asked him about this, but I think
he watched it and said, you know what, I'm not
comfortable with that. And he did nothing wrong. It was
perfectly fine, and the Full Swing show was great. It's
been great for golf. But I just don't think that's
Scotty's cup of tea. And I think Scotty is the
kind of guy who is a rinse and repeat guy.
He's going to celebrate with Meredith Bennett, his parents, his sister,
(15:35):
Randy Blake, his team and everybody, and then he's going
to move along and he'll show up probably at the
Canadian Open or wherever he shows up next, the US
Open at Oakmah, the Memorial, wherever he shows up next,
and just practice, practice, pro am, play four days and
let's see what happens. I just think that he is
motivated by greatness. He's not motivated by anything else. I
(15:59):
also think I think he knows that it was a
big deal to win one of the other three majors.
When you win like John Rahm. It was a very
big deal for John to win the US Open and
the Masters. It's a very big deal. Obviously Rory in
the Grand Slam, but when you know there are a
lot of guys who've won two of the same Greg Norman,
Andy North, Lee Jansen, all fabulous players.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But when you really want.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
To put yourself in a different category, you got to
perform in the other ones as well. You can't just
be a one trick pony, and Scotty certainly is not
a one trick pony man. He if it wasn't golf claude,
you'd call him a baller. He's a baller man. He
just wants to kick your butt and rip your heart out,
and he does it with a smile. And in a
(16:44):
congenial manner, and my goodness, is he great.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You mentioned Randy Smith. He and Randy have been working
together since he was seven years old. Randy Smith's son,
Blake Smith, he's his agent. He's also the agent or
Rooks Kepta. I know Blake very well. I know Randy
very well. Randy is very much in the instructor coach
vein like my father is very old school. They don't
have a lot of gadgets and stuff that influence. I
(17:13):
talked to Randy and we were talking on Friday, and
I was asking him, you know, his attention to detail.
And I talked about this on a podcast that I
did last week where we were talking about Scotty his
attention to detail with the grip and the way he
always kind of goes back to the range and stuff.
I asked Randy about that and he said, we've changed
his grip two times. And I was like, okay, cool,
(17:34):
tell me about it. He goes, yeah, once when he
was thirteen, and I'm like, and then once when he
was in college, and I'm like, that is just so
unbelievably rare in the modern game. His golf swing is
unique in that it's a little bit of kind of
a throwback in that there are so many players. When
(17:55):
you walk up and down the PGA tour now, you
don't see funky grips anymore. You don't see the all
asier type swings. You see everybody kind of the same
size as Scutty now, but they all put the golf
club in a beautiful position, like Adam Scott or Tommy Fleetwood.
And I love the fact that at all of the majors,
regardless it seems as to how he plays, he's always
(18:18):
back at the range working on something. There is a
simplicity in the things that he and Randy work on.
The role of having someone like Randy Smith, who's been
his coach since he was seven, I think is yet
another example of just kind of who he is and
the way that he values people and things off the
(18:39):
golf course.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
He likes consistency, he likes normalcy, and he likes to
be comfortable, and he's very comfortable with his team. He's
very comfortable in the way he lives his life. Like
you said, and what's amazing to me about the Randy
and Scotty relationship is I think and you could speak
to this way more than me. But your first inclination
(19:02):
is to always try to lend your expertise in whatever
field it is. You are one of the great instructors
in the world. Randy is one of the great instructors
in the world. You instruct, So if I came to
you down to the Floridian and needed a lesson, you
would instruct. And that's what you do, whatever the level is.
Randy has told me numerous times. I joke with him
(19:24):
about the footwork and the swing isn't exactly right where
it's supposed to be, and the grip, the whole thing that.
He just kind of looks at me laugh He goes,
you gonna change that? What do you want to do
with that? What am I supposed to do with that?
And I think it's just I think it speaks to
Randy's expertise and his confidence in himself. I also think,
and this is a big thing with me, I'm old again.
(19:46):
I'm going to say that again. Analytics has become so
big in sports. Science has become so big in sports.
I think sometimes we lose sight. I'm not against it,
but I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact.
No matter whether it's an individual sport like golfer, tennis,
or the team sports. I think we lose sight of
the fact of momentum, adrenaline, conditions, time and date, whatever's
(20:09):
going on. Is your wife sick at home? Is she
pregnant and going to be do any time? Who knows
what's going on in your life. Sometimes science and data
can't do that. And when I see Scotti Scheffler, I
see an artist and not a scientist. And to me,
the greats of all time in this sport are artists
and not scientists. Because at the end of the day,
(20:33):
when you've got to pull one out and John Rahm
has tied you, and he's won two majors, and he's
playing great, and you're playing like a dog, and you're
two over through nine and you're hitting every shot left
for whatever reason, when you've got to pull one out,
you've got to rely on your ability, your confidence, and
just the artistry of the sport whatever it is you're playing,
(20:55):
in this case golf, and not the analytics and the
data and the science. So point you just got to
step up there and be a man. And that's what
Scotty did on the back nine yesterday, and it just
proves everything that he and Randy have talked about privately
and publicly for years. This is how I play, Come
get me. And he played great on those last night
(21:16):
holes after playing the first night holes not so great.
I mean, it was not looking great for him there
for a second. There's no way you can convince me
that when John Ram tied him with all that momentum
and guys were getting to within one and two shots
and Scotty was hitting the ball all over the place,
I don't know, man, it was looking squirrely, and he
stepped up. And I think that, to me speaks to
(21:39):
his inner confidence and his ability to adjust. And I
think if you rely too much on science, too much
on data, too much on analytics in sports, at some
point that could get in your way. What can never
get in your way is you being you. Micholson once
told me. I asked him one time, do you think
you won the right amount of turns? And he kind
(22:01):
of looked at me and laugh because what do you mean?
I said, well, forty five six majors and a player's
I mean, Jesus, you're a top ten player in the
history of the sport. Some people think you should have
won seventy times, but you took too many chances. And
he said, I won the exact amount I should have won.
I go, really, why is that? I was just curious?
And he said, because I did it my way. If
I played more conservatively, I wouldn't have won forty five,
(22:23):
six and one. If I would have played my way.
I can live with my resume. And that's exactly what
it is. And I think Scotty's the same, different personality
than Phil, different player than Phil, but Scotty's doing it
his way, Claude, and my goodness, is his way working.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
You know? I read that. You know we missed every
ball left. And Teddy Scott finally said to him, Hey,
maybe it's just Nam a little bit more right, Maybe
it's just Dame over there. Sure, no one like in
the moment, and you're right with the way that we
are all now in the data and information age and
the technique age that's in the game. The game is
(23:00):
being played while you're on the field. That type of
comment from Teddy Scott, Hey, just maybe just a little
bit more right. No one thinks that, like everybody's gonna think, okay,
is my angle of attack to Steve am I coming
too much from me into out Teddy, Scott just goes, Hey,
just aim more to the right. I thought it was
great blud.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
In baseball, a pitching coach can go to the mound
and say, hey, listen, I'm just seeing that that that
index finger is just a little bit off and you're
you're not You're falling off to the left side, and
that's why your your pitches are not going over the plate.
In basketball, in hockey, in football, in all these different sports,
you can have a coach or a teammate or somebody
(23:43):
say something to you, correct me if I'm wrong, unless
they've changed things at the turn. Scotty can't go over
to Randy Smith and outside the ropes and go, hey, Randy,
anything you see here because every drive is going left. Now,
that's not how it works in golf. So to me,
that speaks vaults to not only the confidence and trust
(24:03):
that Ted has to say something like that, but the
confidence and the ability that Scotty has to take a
half step back and go, yeah, you know what, let's
do that, and then it feels good and then he goes.
I just think that there's a lot to him in
a very simplistic way, and it is wonderful to watch,
and I know we're going crazy here talking about him. McElroy.
(24:26):
We were talking about him the day after the Masters,
after winning the career Grand Slam, but he goes about
his business in a different way. I think those two
have separated themselves from the rest of the guys right now.
Things could change, you know, Xander could change and get
back on track and all these different guys. But right now,
it's the Scotty and Rory show and going to Oakmont
(24:48):
I think is going to be a lot of fun because,
as you said, I don't think there's a lot stopping
Scotty right now other than Rory. If Rory does figure
out that driver for whatever reason, he did not play
well last week a Quel Hollow, so you know who knows.
But Scottie right now is just awesome, awesome, all right, So.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Put you on the spot who ends their career with
more majors. We've got Brooks at five, yeah, got three
at five. We've got Scotty and Jordan at three, Rom Bryson, Xander,
Maricoo and JT at two. So if you had to
put your money on it right now, because again we
can sit here and argue and talk and debate about
the Tiger Scotty comparisons, but you can't go back in
(25:29):
time and bring prime Tiger to this year. Right now.
I think ry McElroy is you know, I mean, just
won the Grand Slam. I don't think his best golf
is behind him. I think he's still going to be
a favorite to win every major for the next five years.
So out of that group, who you putting your money
on to have and what's the ceiling, right? Who gets
(25:51):
to seven? Who gets to maybe eight? Can one of
these guys get to double digits.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I think Rory is going to get to seven, maybe eight.
I think Scotty's eight years younger, maybe seven years younger,
I believe, and I think Scotty will pass him. Brooks
is just so great at these big events. I think
that there might be another one in there for Brooks
to get to six. They're just so hard to win.
(26:22):
Would Jack famously tell me one time, Let me get
this right, you can't find your game at a major.
You have to bring your game to a major, is
what Jack once told me. So you get four shots
out of the year, you've got to be prepped and
ready to go. But if I had to put my
house on one guy, even though he's two behind Brooks
(26:42):
and Rory. Right now, I think he's only twenty eight
years of age, and because of all the things we've
already talked about, his life is perfectly in order. Everything
right now is seemingly working for Scotty. If he stays healthy,
I think Scotty will surpass Brooks and Rory, and I
think he would be the one in that group anyway
(27:03):
who could potentially get to double digits. Potentially, but there's
a long long way to go. When we left twenty
fourteen and McElroy had already won three of the four
legs of the Crater, I thought he'd have ten by
now two. And you just never know. You just never know.
I do think, however, I do think Claude, and maybe
(27:23):
I'm wrong, but I think what happened in the last
eleven years at the Majors, not the regular events, because
Rory certainly won a bunch, but at the Majors he
might do what he was supposed to do in the
next eleven years from thirty five to forty six, that
he was supposed to do from twenty four to thirty
five and end up with seven or eight majors, which
is what we all thought was going to happen. Maybe
(27:45):
even ten, who knows. But I think McElroy is in
a different category than everybody else out there, except for Scotty,
but I probably just because of age and opportunities going forward.
I would have to say, even though he's two behind
him right now, I would say Scotty if I had
to put my house on it. You, Yeah, I mean,
(28:05):
I think.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean, I definitely think Rom is going to be
a factor. I think Bryson is definitely going to be
a factor. Just before I get to Bryson and Rom.
Strange week for Rory, the driver's testing issue didn't play
well and no media for four days. Shane and Rorty
have both commented that they think that sometimes golf is
(28:26):
a little different than other sports. That in other sports
it's mandatory, right, you can't skip right like NFL, NBA,
you have to. It's contractual, it's in the contract you
have to do media. Rory chose to do no media
for four days. Masters Champion.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You make anything of that, Yeah, I think it's bad.
I think it's a bad look. But I also think
that people need to understand this. This is a very
clear distinction here between the athletes and the media and
the world of golf. They don't owe the media anything.
They do owe the golf world something, and the media
(29:06):
happens to be the conduit between the greatest players in
the world and the golf world. So to me, a
player cannot just talk when things are going great. A
player has got to stand there and take it. Greg
Norman in ninety six, Ernie else in two thousand and four,
(29:27):
Jean van Develd in ninety nine, go back in all time,
you know, you name it. Guys have to stand Phil
Mickelson and six at wingfoot. You gotta stand there and
take it, because, you know what, whether it's mandatory or not,
it's part of the job. You have sponsors, you have fans,
and you have the golf world at large, and the
(29:48):
media happens to be the conduit between you and them.
You don't owe the media anything, but I do think
you owe the golf world something. And I think it
was a mistake. I think he made a mistake last
year at Pinehurst, and I think he made a mistake
this past week. All four days. To me, that's weird.
But I will say the face of the driver issue, Claude,
(30:12):
This sport can be so great in its traditions, but
it can also be so stupid in his traditions. Can
we get some transparency? Can we test every week? Can
we test every driver every week? Because you're killing the player.
You are allowing these wackos on social media to say
(30:34):
stupid things like, well, Rory cheated to win the Masters
because he didn't have a driver that was conforming. Rory
didn't cheat, Scott, he didn't cheat. It happens every week.
You and I know this. Xander Schafflee at Royal Port
Rush didn't cheat and he was hearing it from some people.
You and I both know this. Everybody in and around
professional golf knows that these guys get tested, but not
every one of them does. And they all should be tested.
(30:56):
And the USGA, the PGA of America, the R and N,
the PGA Tour, Live Golf, everybody in the ecosystem DP
World Tour, everybody in the ecosystem of professional golf should
be transparent with suspensions and with fines, with slow play,
and also with this, the idea that you're protecting the
(31:19):
player is just a false narrative. This is not thirty
years ago. Social media stuff travels and bad stuff can
happen when you're not transparent, and I think it's unfair
to the players. It's unfair to Rory, unfair to Scotty
and every other player who has a driver taken away
unbeknownst to them. They did not cheat, and the RNA
(31:42):
and the USGA should absolutely be transparent with that, and
they should test every driver, not the third of the field.
That's ridiculous. They got to change that club.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I think so. I mean, I think it was Tuesday.
We're at the Masters, were on the driving range. My
dad and I were talking to Phil and Phil was
hitting I've already said, but you I've never driven it better.
I'm driving it long and everything. They tested his driver
Wednesday morning. He was twenty minutes late for the for
the game that he was going to play with DJ,
and his driver got taken out. First thing that happened.
DJ's on the range. It's either Monday or early Tuesday.
(32:15):
I think it was Tuesday they came and tested his driver.
I agree with you that the governing bodies of the
four Majors, I do think have an obligation to make
it so as it doesn't look to the fans, right,
these guys are doing something wrong that the exactly work
that you know, they're stealing signs like they do in
other sports. I do think that four times a year
(32:38):
they could test everybody's driver if that's an issue.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, it's a one hundred Hey, test all you want.
But protect the player, yeah, sure. Now, if a player's cheating,
then a player's cheating. This is not a player cheating.
This is not someone nudging a ball or doing something goofy.
This is a testing issue with drivers in new technology
(33:02):
and thin club faces, and sometimes after you hit that
driver for a year like Scotty has a billion times,
it's not going to be conforming and the player does
not know that. So enough already with throwing these players
under the bus, it's ridiculous that the governing bodies don't
protect them, in my opinion, in this particular instance, if
a player cheats by the way, Claude, hey, I'm all
(33:23):
four you knowing it. Social media can know it, but
in this particular case, protect the players. Man, It's just
not right.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah. And here's the thing. I mean, there's nobody out
there with their drivers. I mean, I've been on tour,
gone to a truck from a manufacturer, And today I've
got a junior player I'm working with. Any chance that
you could build a driver for him and they will
look at the numbers on the driver and go, yeah,
give him this one. Because he's a junior golfer. It
wouldn't pass a test on the PGA Tour. A tour
(33:53):
player couldn't use it. So yeah, because the face is
just a little bit hot and we would never run
the risk of giving that to a player.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Bryson, Yeah, the fans seem to love this guy. Is
Bryson a needle mover in the game right now?
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I think Bryson Rory And interestingly, Scotty's greatness is starting
to catch on. Not his personality per se, like Stephen
Jeger said, and the raw ross stuff and the fist
pumps and the yelling and screaming, but his greatness is
the CJ Cup, which he won by a million shots.
The ratings were way way up and he had a
(34:34):
huge lead. So I was always I'm not a huge
ratings guy, but it is interesting to see if Scotty
can jump into that. Fray Bryson as popular as anybody
in the world of golf, whether you want to call
them antics or just energy. Uh, it's it's it's infectious.
And he gives the people what they want called. He
(34:56):
high fives and low fives kids as he walks from
greens to Te's. You know, he he gets them pumped
up doing his you know thing with the hands in
the air. And you know what, he's good for the
game man, you know. I mean, people can say what
they want, whether they think it's genuine or not, whether
they think it's a fraud or not. Get to know
him a little bit. He's a little different than most
people think. Is he a little bit on the quirky side,
(35:18):
a little bit on the odter side, the most normal normal,
normal normal people. Yeah, but you know what, he's an
extraordinary talent. And he also has a mind that probably
you know, maybe you but I can't fathom being that bright.
I can't have him being that bright. And I think
he's become a very very popular player. You can make
a strong case he's one two three as far as
(35:39):
popularity in the world.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
He's the complete one hundred and eighty degree opposite of
Scotti Scheffler. He lives his life openly, he's using social media.
What do you notice about his game that is impressing you,
because I mean he's been all over the map like
he's been. He was doing long drive. He got finished
(36:00):
second the World Long Dry Championship. I mean he got
Remember when we came back from COVID, he looked like
a high school middle linebacker. But as someone that watches
his game, what has impressed you about the arc and
the evolution of his game.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I think his short game is outrageous. With six irons,
by the way exactly he bombs the ball off the tee.
He hits the ball incredibly high. You know, the wind
catches it a lot because he hits such a high ball.
But his short game, his chipping and pitching claude are remarkable,
(36:36):
I mean outrageously great. And what happens is when guys
are bombing the ball and they're crushing the ball and
the driving part of the game is so sexy, and
the short game is not as sexy as far as
watching it goes. It gets lost in the shuffle, and
I think people don't understand and they're getting a great
understanding of it now at just how amazing his short
(36:58):
game is. I also think that you know, his work
ethic is second to none. Now, it's not exactly the
work ethic that I would probably take. It's not the
work ethic that you would probably take, but it works
for him. Scotty not on social media, Bryson is Scotty
would never hit golf balls over his house. He doesn't
want anybody seeing where he lives. Bryson hits golf balls
(37:19):
over his house, goes on YouTube, has millions of followers
and has a great time with it. Hey, different strokes
for different folks. But the way he goes about his
business on the golf course is incredible to watch, and
the way he goes about his business off the golf course.
He is great with kids, is great with golf fans.
He is not faking that. He's been a big turnaround
(37:42):
as far as what people think of Bryson, and I
think that has everything to do with his maturity. He's
getting older, and I just think he's he's enjoying it. Man.
He has a lot of fun with the game, with
the competition, and I also think he has a lot
of fun with himself. So, you know, good for him
for turning things around in that regard. But as far
as his game goes, every time I see him chip
(38:05):
and pitch, I just like wow. I mean, it's just wow.
If his iron play ever gets up to snuff compared
to what his short game is now, then it's gonna
be a lot of Bryson on leaderboards every single time
we see him.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
If you look at the last six majors he's played
until last year, six at the Masters, second at the PGA,
wins the US Open, Okay gets cut at the Open Championship,
fifth at the Masters this year, tied for second. I
get to see him week in and week out on
lub Tanzi. He hits balls until dark after every single round,
(38:39):
whether he shot sixty two or whether he's shot seventy two.
He's the last person on the range every single day,
every single day. And I just don't think he gets
enough credit for his work ethic what I just read
about his majors in the last year and a half,
(39:00):
do you expect him to be one of those guys
now that is just going to be on a major
championship leader board for the next three to five years.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Absolutely, And by the way, to our point earlier, he
knows he needs to win something other than two US Opens.
He needs to get a different leg of the career
Grand Slam, not all four of them. He would love that, obviously,
but he doesn't want to be one of those guys.
Who ah, I'm a two time US Open winner and
didn't win any of the other ones. And he is
so consistent at these majors as numbers you're reeled off
(39:30):
are incredible, and you know, look, you've said this to
me for years when we're out having a drink. You
just have to give yourself an opportunity, you know, You've
got to give yourself an opportunity. To the point earlier,
Scotty gave himself, gave himself that opportunity on Thursday by
digging it out of the dirt per se to shoot
that sixty nine. Bryson does it all the time. And
the more you put yourself in those you know, leaderboards
(39:54):
late on Sunday, the better chance you have of clipping
one of these things off. I don't think Bryson de
Shamba is going anyway where anytime soon. At these major championships,
he really brings him. Remember when Brooks said years ago,
I think it's easier to win majors than it is
to win regular events because there's just a certain number
of players who just don't think they have the belief
to get it done. Bryson knows he can get it done.
(40:16):
He's crossed the finish line twice and I don't think
he's gonna stop it too.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
You talked about John Rahm. I think it was great
to see John Rahm get back into it. He did
everything you needed to do to get to the back
nine that you have to do to stay in contention
in a major. He was making the long cutts, but
the no birdies at Quail Hollow. I mean, Hunter may
haven't made a comment last week about you know, Quail
Hollow's like a Kardashian It looks great, but there's no
(40:43):
substance and stuff. But if you think about a major
championship venue, I think we had one last week at
Quail Hollow in Charlotte, where you knew that there were
four legit birdie chances for the entire round, right, you
had to take care of the three par fives, right,
so he had to take care of seven, had to
(41:03):
take care of ten, had to take care of fifteen,
and then fourteen's drivable. They put it that way. But
other than that, you're just trying to hang on. So
in that respect, John Rahm has that type of game,
but he just didn't get it done on the holes
that he needed to and then after that you got
to just try and fire at every flag. And he
(41:24):
lived in But because John Rahm went to live and
there are a lot of people. You know, my dad
was doing TV for Sky at the Masters and somebody
sent me a clip. My Dad's going, yeah, I mean,
Don Rom's been playing terrible lately. I had dinner with
him that I said, Dad isn't finished outside the top
ten like two and a half years, right. So the
game that John Rahm has, I still think if there's
(41:47):
a real world golf rankings, how he's not in the
top ten. John Rahm is one of the top ten,
top five best players in the world in my opinion,
and I think the eye test shows that. Good to
see him back in the mix in a major I
think he needed that. I think the game needs that.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Oh one hundred percent. It was great to see him back,
great to see him playing well. I will say, I
don't know how long it takes for me to think
that something is a trend as opposed to an anomaly.
But last year when we were in Paris, he had
a three shot lead I think it was a three
shot lead on the back nine and completely collapsed. He
didn't really play a factor or a role in the Masters.
(42:24):
It was the Bryson and Rory show. And then the
next major championship he's tied for the lead, playing great
and then basically collapsed on Monday at Quile Hollow. I
think about worried about it, but it is interesting in
his last two big spots he has not been able
to close when he basically had it in his hands
if he continued to play well. But John is a
(42:45):
freakiusly great player, incredibly competitive, works his butt off. I
think he's one of those guys like Bryson who's going
to be around for a long time in major championships. Look,
he went over to Live and everybody thought that's going
to be the end of John Well. They thought that
about Brooks and he wanted o kill. They thought that
about Bryce and he wanted Pineers. John rom is going
(43:06):
to be perfectly fine. I don't care what the official
World Golf ranking says. Doesn't matter to me. If John
Rahm is not one of your five or eight top
players in the world, then you don't understand golf.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yeah, I mean, listen. I sent a message as soon
as he started making double bogies and stuff. I sent
a message to a friend of mine. I said, wait
for all the comments about they only play fifty four
holes and they can't close, and your boy, the ultimate
lib hater, randall on Que last night going on and
on about this matres are hard to win. And if
(43:40):
you look at six of the top ten players in
the official World Golf rankings last week missed the Cup, JT. Ludwig,
Jackie Russell, Henley Sepstrak and who just won, and Shane,
they don't make the cut. And are we still I mean,
I can go on my phone right now and it
takes two seconds for me to find video and pictures
(44:02):
from Mars right and we're still trying to talk about
the fact that live in the PJA. I mean, I
think the game and I did a podcast about this
last week. Say, I think you can make an argument
that for all everyone wants to talk about the doom
and gloom, and I keep seeing amazing performances on the
(44:26):
course from the best players in the world, and good
players play bad, right, it happens like you're not gonna
play good every week. You're not gonna have your best stuff.
And you know, we've seen some of the best players
in the world, some of the big young superstars, and
a kid like Ludvig Goberg, I mean, you know, come
(44:48):
close to missing the cut. Does that mean that his
game is bad? Does that mean that he's not a
great player? Does that mean he doesn't have a great
future because he misses the cut in a major? If
you want to go down that route, you could say, okay, well,
these guys obviously aren't any good because they don't even
make the cuts. If you're going to beat somebody up
because he doesn't get it done on Sunday when he
(45:10):
has a chance to win, when he takes the lead,
I just can't we just get pass all of this
stuff at this point?
Speaker 2 (45:18):
No, No, it won't happen because there are haters out there. Claude.
It's a look, I don't care what tour you're on.
If you're a great player, you're a great player. And
sometimes great players in this sport in particular, just have
bad days. And if you have one bad day, and
that's Thursday or Friday. Then the chances are you're not
going to make the cut and be able to play
on Saturday and Sunday. I mean, what do you want?
You can't have it both ways. You know. I got
(45:40):
a text yesterday. I can't believe Rora didn't shoot a
Sunday sixty three or sixty four to tie for seventh
and have just this random top ten. I'm like, what
do you odut of your mind? I go, you know,
sometimes people just don't have it. It's okay, it's a
hard golf I mean, it's just a hard course. It's
a hard game. I mean, my gosh, And you know,
I just think you know a lot of people, you know,
(46:00):
try to find the negatives. I'd tell my kids all
the time, you know, stay positive. It cost the same. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Lastly, going back to Scotty, you talked about he doesn't
really and we talked about it. He doesn't really have
any weaknesses. And I think the thing that makes me
think his Major championship ceiling is so high is I
don't think there's a golf course, let alone the ones
they play in the majors. I mean, if you wanted
Augusta twice, you got to feel, you know, Phil felt
that way, You got to feel like you could win
(46:28):
another one of those right now that he's want to PGA.
If you look at the venues that we're going to
for the last two majors in Congressional, I mean there
are big ballparks and then there's Oakama. To me, it's
the hardest golf course on the planet. I've heard they've
lengthened it. It looks like the rough is knee height.
And then the Open Championship back to Port Rush. I
(46:51):
don't see conditions that Scotty Scheffler's game doesn't match. What
do you think about the upcoming two remaining majors the
year for Scotty to clip off some more?
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I think I think both of those venues are great
for a guy like Scotty. I don't think there's a
place on the planet that isn't good for Scotty right now,
that little that little cut he has, that little faraway
finder he has, I mean, my god, are you kidding me?
And I also think there's golf courses are good for
Rory McRoy as well, if he straightens out the driver.
(47:26):
You know, he didn't drive it well last week. Oh well,
he didn't drive it great the week before the Truest. Okay,
he'll be okay. I mean he's Rory McElroy and he's
an accomplished player. But for Scotty, I think that you know,
it's part play and it's part mindset, and I think that,
like you said, nothing bothers the guy. Conditions don't bother him,
(47:47):
you know, not being able to prepare the way he
wanted to, you know, with Monday rain at Kuail Hollow
didn't bother him, the front nine yesterday, the front nine
on Sunday didn't bother him. Not playing great on Thursday,
but eking out that sixty nine. He doesn't get phased
by things. So if he hits it in the rough
at Oakmont, which you're going to do at some point,
(48:08):
he'll be okay. And I think Royal Port rush. I
think the Open Championship is the one that's the most
random because it's just it's a weather conditions type of
thing and you just never know. But I've been to
that golf course. You have too. We were there in
twenty nineteen when Shane Lowry won. I mean, you can't
tell me that he's not going to be the favorite.
Going into Oakmont, and you can't tell me that he's
(48:29):
not going to be the favorite going into Royal Port
Rush as well. I think that both of those venues,
with his game and his mind, it's just a tough,
tough combination right now to be able to beat those
two things.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
And I think last week was a great week for
European Writer Cup captain Luke Donald, with John Rahm playing
route again, Matt Fitzpatrick being on the leaderboard again, and
then for Keegan Bradley who is playing like he's trying
to make the team, Bryson and Scotty Scheffler. I mean,
looking forward to September, I think this last major is
(49:06):
going a long way to kind of go okay. Maybe
we are going to see some familiar faces because certainly
on the US side, you're probably going to have some
rookies Setstraka winning who played great in Rome. I think
it's great for Luke, I think Fitzi coming back and
playing good again in a major, and I think John
Rahm playing good is great. And I think the majors
(49:27):
are all going to be great this year, and I
think we're in for a good Ryder Cup. What are
you looking forward to for the rest of the summer
pre Rider Cup, and who do you think needs to
make a move and kind of put themselves kind of
on the radar or on the map. For both Luke
and Keegan, I.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Think that first of all, to see someone in the
second session on Friday afternoon with cutoff jeene shorts and
white sox halfway up his ankles and a white tank
top tucked in with no belt with nine beer cups
stacked over his chest, screaming and yelling at the Europeans
(50:07):
on Long Island at Bethpage is going to be sensational
if you want to have that vision in your head
of that guy who's going to be screaming and yelling.
I think Koepka, who went to that dinner with Keegan
and Bryson, is clearly on the radar. I think he
needs to play well to prove that he needs to
(50:27):
be a pick if he's outside of the number. As
far as the Europeans go, I think Fitzpatrick, like you said,
stepped up. I think Stepstrak is a fabulous player and
he's not afraid of the moment. Didn't play well last week.
I think it's stacking up to be you get a
lot of really good players playing well. And like we
(50:48):
said earlier, what Jack said, you bring your game to
the big events. You don't find your game at the
big events. And I think right now, with these majors
the way they're stacked up. When they moved the PGA
from August to May, I remember thinking, I love that.
I love having it just before football season. I always
thought it was cool. I understand why they did it
business wise, but with them stacked up month to month
(51:09):
to month to month, these guys are playing well. I
think we're gonna go to Oakmont. Rom US Open winner Bryson,
two time US Open winner Brooks. Koepka all right, two
time US Open winner, three time two time US Open winner.
McElroy's playing, you know, has gotten three wins, including the
players and a master's. Scottie Scheffler has now kicked it
(51:29):
into gear. Xander is starting to play better golf coming
off the injury. Justin Thomas got the win for the
first time in a while. He's someone who needed to
do something to prove to Keegan. You know, I think
that I think lud vig Oldberg is someone who is
going to be needed on the European side. Of things,
(51:50):
and when you know, when depth becomes an issue, I
think it becomes more of an issue on the European
side than it does on the American side. And right now,
if you were playing the Ryder Cup next week, without
these two majors coming up, without the FedEx Cup playoffs,
without the rest of the lib golf season, you played
the Ryder Cup this coming weekend, I think the Europeans probably,
(52:13):
I don't have they be favored, but may be real
close right now. And I think Keegan and Luke are
in very good shape. But as you know, it's a
long way to go. You know, he had a few
more months to go, But right now you have a
lot of players on both sides playing great golf. To me,
that's what I'm looking forward to the most. Can these
guys sustain it. Can Rory get back on track after
(52:35):
the Masters? Can Scottie sustain it? Can Xander take a
step forward after doing what he did last year? Can
Ludwig put himself in a different category and get one
of these next two major championships by the way, Can
Shane Lowry, you know, get going a little bit and
be just completely and utterly solidified. For Luke Donald. There's
(52:56):
a lot of great golfers out there playing good golf.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
One of the superstars, one of the I mean, he
played unbelievable in Rome for the European side, Victor Hovelin.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Oh yeah, he's playing that little bit.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Signs of life that the science experiment might, you know,
be somewhat over. Any chance if Keegan plays good for
the rest of the summer and he picks himself.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
No chance. I think if he's inside the number, he
will gladly be one of the twelve, probably play Sunday
singles only and that's it. But if he's in a
pick situation, I just don't think he's the kind of
guy who's going to say, yeah, I'm gonna pick myself
over somebody else. I'm just gonna be the captain. But
if he earns his way on, he's not going to
(53:37):
give up that spot and take someone else. I think
he'll just play in the Sunday singles and that's it.
But I think Hegan understands his place, knows the history
of it all. It'd be very cool to be a
playing captain, but I think he'd want to earn it.
I don't think he'd want to pick himself. I don't think, well,
a lot to play for for the rest of the summer.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
Who's great seeing you at the Master Sanzy and look
for or to seeing you at Congressional in about three weeks.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, Ka, it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Great to talk to you Cloud.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Be good, Bude.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
So that was Steve Sands and like I said, he's
one of the most recognizable voices in the game and
someone whose opinion I respect as well. And like I
said last week on the pod, I think the games
are a great place. I think Scotti Schiffer winning majors
is great for the game. I think the run that
he's on is fantastic, and I think we're in for
a really, really good summer of golf. Son of a
(54:30):
Butcher comes to you most every week Greate Review, subscribe
wherever you get your podcast. It's the Son of a
Butcher Podcast.
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Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
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