October 22, 2025 • 43 mins
Claude welcomes Senior Instructor and Coach Ryan Crysler back to the pod to break down The Bogey-Proof Blueprint Game — a game he’s developed to help players stop chasing scores and start thinking like risk managers. It’s a mindset shift: par or better is a win, over par is a loss, and the perfect score? 18–0.
Follow Ryan's @GolfChaosManaged on Instagram for more golf drills and skills for the winning disciplined golfer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the Son of a Butch podcast. I'm your host,
Claude Harmon. So it's off season for me. Got some
time at home, and one of the cool things about
not being on the road is I get to be
back at the Floridian with my team and Ryan Krysler
I've had on the pod before. Ryan and I've been
working together really since two thousand and five, and he's
just such a valuable member of my team. He's a mentor,
(00:21):
he's a confidant, he's a friend, and so when I'm home,
I get to spend time around him and Matt Galan,
who I work with, who I had on the pod recently,
and they really do kind of help recharge me and
kind of give me kind of a boost because at
times I can just be NonStop with the travel, just
trying to get through, you know, my schedule away from
work with tour players. And so I wanted to get
(00:44):
Ryan back on this week because you know, he sits
cross for me in the office and we throw ideas
out at each other, and he came up with a
really great idea about a game that he wanted to
talk about. So I thought I'd be really good to
get him back on. And you know, my goal, all
of our goals is just to help players play better,
learn how to play a game that really is kind
(01:05):
of simple, learn how to play it better. And I
think this is a really good opportunity to listen to
someone who's come up with a really cool game that
can help you lower your scores. All right, Ryan, So,
whenever I think about trying to come up with topics
and content for the podcast, it's always from a space
of trying to figure out real world stuff that players
(01:26):
can work on. And so you and I talk a
lot about different the difference between practicing and playing technique
versus execution. That's kind of a theme. If you've listened
to the podcast before, you know that's a theme that's
hugely important to me. I know it's a theme that's
that's really important to you. So the difference between practicing
golf and playing golf, in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Is what, Well, it's completely separate games, if you will.
If you're practicing golf, you're possibly working on some sort
of technique situation. You're working on, maybe yarders, controlled wedges,
you are are working on, maybe hidden driver in a
certain window, whatever it may be. It's primarily something technical.
(02:06):
We're target based, and when you're playing golf, man, we're
just trying to solve the hole. We're trying to get
apart or Bertie and just get the heck out of there,
not really working on mechanics, working on maybe process and
routine and visualization things like that. But it's completely different
from the typical practice session, if you will.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And I think a lot of players, you and I
talk about this a lot. I've talked about it on
the pod as well. Yeah, there's two buckets, right, there's
the practice, the technique bucket, there's the performance. There's the
execution bucket. And I think so many players are just
stuck constantly. It's like eighty twenty ninety ten in technique, technique, technique,
(02:48):
golf swing, golf swing, practice, practice practice, they have a
bad round, Get me back to the range, back to
the range. I'm going to play golf today, nine or
eighteen holes. Right, I'm going to go to the golf course.
I'm going to practice for Cheo de Far. I mean,
I see so many of our juniors do that. Right,
Every practice session, every warm up is a practice session, right,
They're getting ready to go play golf. So they want
to get to the they're gonna play golf. Let's say
(03:09):
they're gonna tee off at noon, they're gonna they're gonna
get to the golf course at eight o'clock practice, go
through all their drills, then they're gonna go play. And
it's next to impossible to take the four hours, three hours,
two hours that they've practiced and then go to the
golf course with no thoughts, mind free, mind blank. So
(03:29):
bridging that gap between technique and execution. On the execution side,
it's a really cool game. Ogie proof blueprint game. All right,
what is it? Talk me through it?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, Ideally, when you're playing golf, you're out there chasing course,
and the concept behind this game is avoiding bogies at
all costs and playing the role as a risk manager
instead of someone trying to chase or a good score.
And the concept basically is you get eighteen holes or
(04:04):
nine or nine yep, and if you make par better
it's a win.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's a W, so you've won the whole W. So
it's like a match play. If it's par or better,
you're playing against yourself, right, So the only object on
every single hole, on all the par threes and all
the par four's, all the par five's. Is anything par
or better is a win? Anything bogie or more is
(04:31):
a loss a loss.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I could probably adjust that to you. Let's say you're
a ninety shooter, maybe maybe bogie is a win.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, And I think that's the great thing about this
from a handicap standpoint, if you're a higher handicap. I
talk about it all the time. We talk about it
with our students. The way that most people are going
to improve their handicap is to make more bogies, more bogies. Yes,
what we constantly talk about is bogie avoidance. Yes. But
(04:56):
I think there's this mix of you think that the
way that you're going to break one hundred ninety eighty
seventy is to make more birdies, right, even the guys
at the elite level. Noah Kent, who I've had on
the podcast before. Noah's now junior finalist of the twenty
twenty four USM and I played in the MASTERSS this year,
(05:18):
played in the US Open, played two PGA Tour events.
He's now a junior at the University of Florida. Played
a tournament last week. Aaron Hills finished top fifteen, he
made a ten on a two hundred and seventy five
yard drivable part four and then made two double bogies
in that he's trying to qualify earlier this week for
(05:40):
a tournament. Sixty eight sixty nine, three bogies in two
rounds shoots eighty makes a ten and two doubles. We teach,
you know, we were going through our round defense with
some of our team flow kids the other day. You
young player trying to play playing in a minor league tournament.
Four to three puts, two four putts and then a
(06:03):
bunch of doubles and a bunch of triples. And the
thought process behind that is, I need to make more birdies.
I need to make more birdies, and need to make
more birdies. And what is going to help you? I mean,
if you look at making a ten, if you look
at making a double or a triple, if the ten
becomes a nine, you're saving a shot. So taking a
(06:23):
ten and turning it into a double bogie would be
a win. Taking a triple bogie and turning it into
a double or turning it into a bogie is a win.
So going out and playing nine or eighteen holes and
shifting your mindset in the scoring to where there's two outcomes.
You're either winning the hole with par or less. So
(06:44):
if you make a par, you make a birdie, you
make an Eagle's it you want? If you make a
bogie or worse or worse a double, a triple, whatever,
you've lost the hole. So nine holes, you've got nine opportunities,
eighteen holes. You've got eighteen opportunities looking for an eighteen
in a record, which would be just a bunch of pars,
right yes or bern yes? What do you think if
(07:06):
you're doing this, how do you think it shifts the
mindset for the player. So they're going out on the
golf course and as opposed to trying to figure out
I mean, obviously, every time you go out and play,
you look at a scorecard, there's a very small box.
There's not really anything. There's not really any room or
anything in the box other than the score. That's why
(07:29):
the box is so small. Now, what people do is
they write down other things on the scorecard. They write down,
you know, how many fair with R. But if you
look at a scorecard, the only thing that you can
actually put in the box underneath the first hole is
the number.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yes, there's no stories.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So there's no stories, and invariably we go through this
all the time when someone makes a big number, right,
let's say you make a double, a triple, or in
Noah Kent's situation, he makes a ten. I call him
after he shoots ad and I tell them to talk
me through the ten, and it's this elaborate, long drawn
(08:06):
out drama of all happened. And you know, he hit one,
and then he tried to chip it back out in
the fairway, and then it hit a tree and then
it takes an all places. Whenever you make a double
or triple bogie, there's always this elaborate story behind it,
and I think that creates a lot of negativity. I
(08:29):
think it creates kind of an environment for it to
continue to happen, kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Like a little self defense mechanism too. You know, I
blame it on my bad lie. I was plugged in
the ball.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Getting a bad lie, and then I hit one and
then it goes behind a route and then I had
to take it on the tall and all of that.
So if the goal is on every single hole, horror,
better is a win bogie or worse is a loss?
What kind of mindset do you think you need to
get into to try and achieve that on the golf
(08:59):
cour in the game.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
But we're cracking the code on scoring, right, so we're
gonna eliminate scoring, So we don't care as a coach
if it's sixty five or seventy five. I'm looking for
a fourteen and four record right with this game, the
Bogie Blueprint game. That's gonna explain a lot, and the
mindset would be, you know, instead of you know, how
am I going to cut off this corner? How am
(09:23):
I going to carry this bunker? You're going to really
assess the risk of the whole.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, because I think what you said there is quite interesting,
this idea behind score chasing on the golf course where
you're constantly thinking. I mean, obviously, if you're trying to
break one hundred for the first time, any of the
barriers one hundred and ninety eighty break par for the
first rye there is a number. It's number centric, right,
(09:48):
You've got a number in mind. What am I going
to do today to try and go out and shoot
under par? Right? What am I going to do today
to try and break eighty for the first time? And
then as soon as you get behind the eight ball,
you make a mistake, you have a bad hole. The
calculations then become you know, like I always said, most golfers,
(10:10):
regardless of their handicap, you know, to me playing golf,
playing competitive golf, but playing golf in general, especially if
you're in that higher handicap range, trying to break one hundred,
ninety or eighty for the first time. It's knowing when
to play offense, knowing when to play defense. But what
we continually see happen on the golf course is as
(10:32):
soon as something goes wrong on the golf course, as
soon as you get a bad shot, soon as you
get a bad break, soon as you get a bad
lie or something, and something bad happens, the immediate reaction
is straight offense. Push all the chips into the middle
of the table.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I gotta catch up.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Gott to try and make up for that. From a
score standpoint, I've gotta try and go flag hunting.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Now it's a three way from two forty over water
to the back.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I'm taking hyper aggressive lines and stuff like that, so
as I gotta make it up the mindset of taking
the score, the actual real score the way the game
is designed to be played out, and just saying to yourself, Okay,
my number one goal to get a win on the
first hole of my home course is to make par
(11:21):
or better. Yeah, how can I do that?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Number one? To clarity in For example, it's one of
the hardest holes in the course. You can't feel any
wind pairwa's kind of narrow. It's usually left to right.
Everyone hits it right bunker right trees almost every time.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It can't feel the winds right.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So if we back off and say, hey, you figure
out a way to get a WI on this hole,
maybe it's a different club off the first tee three
would maybe you can draw back into the win a
little bit easier. It's a little straighter shot.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
If you're a higher handicapped player, maybe you say to yourself, okay,
it's a par four. And given my length, given how
far I can hit my driver off the tee, maybe
I start to think of the par fours. If you're
in that one hundred ninety eighty range, the par fours,
(12:09):
given your talent level, should be they should be you're
trying to bogie those, So then you maybe look at
those and say, okay, rather than try and hit my driver,
which I don't really drive the golf ball that well.
I tend most of the golfers that are in those
handicap ranges to generalization, but make the majority of them
slice the golf ball. It curves a lot. If you're
(12:31):
a right handed golfer from right to left, you're looking
at where the trouble is. So say to yourself, Okay,
I'm trying to break a hundred for the first time
all the par fours. I'm just trying to make bogies
on right. If I can make bogie or less, that's
a win. Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
One way we can modify the game, for sure would be,
you know, say, high handicapped player, We're going to have
a w equal a bogie on a par four.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah. You could play this in two ways. You could say, Okay,
I'm going to try it. The win is par or
better if you're a higher handicap player, and if you
look at the toolbox you have, say okay, the goal
would be for me if you're trying to break one
hundred for the first time. If the mindset could be
to play bogie golf yep, consistently bogie golf, then once
(13:20):
you are able to do that consistently, then you can
start to say okay, now, maybe change it up. But
if you're a higher handicap golfer and you're trying to
have these, you know, breakthrough from a score standpoint in
the one hundred and ninety or eighty category, just say, okay,
it's a win on this whole if I make a
bogie or better. So, if I make a bogie, a
(13:42):
par a birdie or an eagle, that's a win. If
I make a double bogie, a triple bogie, anything over bogie,
it's a loss.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yep, you can pick it up too, Pick it up
after double, go to the next toll. Already lost.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Done, Yeah, that would be another way to do. So.
If you're already making a big number, pick it up, done,
go go to the next hole. What's the point of
because you know, if you're staring double bogie in the
face and you've chipped it, you know, you've played ping
pong and hockey around in the trees and stuff, and
(14:18):
you're on a par four and you're in front of
the green trying to go over a bunker to a
tight pin, you're basically staring at making double or triple
and you played one in the bunker. Why get in
there and try and just make it worse, make it worse,
make it worse, because then the next mentally you're just
(14:39):
killing yourself. Pick it up. And again, this is not
you going out and trying to shoot a score for
your handicap. So you're not putting this score in right.
This is a game that you're going out to play
on the golf course. It's a for lack of a
(15:00):
better term, I guess it would be a practice game
that you're using the golf course to play.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Okay, yes, nothing technical about it. Let's say we got
you know, ten par fours, four par threes, four par five.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And most golfers that are going to be playing golf,
the majority of people listening to this podcast, are going
to play a golf course like that. Yep, ten par fours,
You've got the par threes, you've got the par fives. Now,
if you are playing a more championship old school style,
you might have a par seventy one or are seventy.
(15:36):
But I would venture to say the majority of people
that are playing recreational or competitive golf, you're playing a
golf course where you're gonna have ten chances on the
par fours. You're gonna have four par threes, You're gonna
have four par five. It's interesting that you brought this
game up because I was talking to Noah Kent the
(15:58):
other night, and Noah cruises at one ninety three balls.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
It's ridiculous. It's almost a half swing too.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It's you know, he can go get over one ninety
five ball speed his mini driver, he can carry three
fifteen in the air. He hits a four iron miles,
his five iron is to twenty five to two thirty
pushes five iron up there. And I said to him,
you know, and I'm looking at his scores and I said,
(16:27):
you know, you have so much speed and so much firepower,
right and you can overpower golf courses. There aren't really
a lot of golf courses he's going to play where
it isn't a realistic option for him to not get
to every par five and two. And he's getting to
the majority of the par fives that he's playing with
(16:49):
an iron yep. Right. So I said to him the
other night, I said, you know, I know you're struggling
and qualifying right now. What I want you to do
for the next month is every time you play around
of golf nine or eighteen, however many par fives you have,
you have to play half and off the tee. You
(17:10):
have to hit five iron and down. You can't hit
a four iron, a driving iron, any of your your woods,
can't hit a driver, you can't imaginerate. You have to
take five iron and down on half of the par
fives that you play. And let's see what that does
(17:31):
from a scoring standpoint. Because at the elite level, the
legit birdie chances that you've got are the par five.
But for everyone else, the legit par chances you have
are the par fives. Right, So the elite competitive golfer,
tour players, elite amateurs, college players, you're playing at an
(17:53):
elite competitive level, your legit chances to improve your score
against or going to be on the four, three or
two par fives that you play. Right. For the rest
of us, those are the legit chances that we have
to make our pars. So it's four opportunities every round
(18:17):
to make four auto pars.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
The auto par yep.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
In your mind, that's a term we use. I'm sure
there are some people that are going to hear that
and go. Hell is an odd What is an auto par?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Auto par basically is put yourself in position like an
a par five, reshot a par five, you know, something
lading up off the tee, a nice layup to the fairway.
Let's say it's one hundred yard short of the green.
Then it's a wedge on the green somewhere in two punts,
so no risk, nothing fancy, nothing around trees, no three
woods over water from two forty five trying to cut
(18:52):
it whatever it is. So we're just looking to build
in like four auto pars minimum, and then maybe there's
one or possibly two short par fours that are let's
say they're three hundred to three point fifty where you
can go, you know, maybe hybrid off the tee, leave
yourself a one thirty shot or something like that, and
maybe it's a nine iron eight on whatever it is,
(19:12):
get on the grand tuoput get the hell out of there.
So it's almost maybe six auto pars per round, so
we've got twelve holes left. Makes sense right with the
bogie proof game, we could set the standard like right now,
maybe if you're a handicap is seven or below, the
par is the win. So anything below par is, the
W anything above pars and L. Maybe if you're trying
(19:35):
to break eighty, you set that set up that standard.
And then maybe for the guy trying to break ninety
for the first time, let's say let's make the wins
the pars and the par fives the auto pars. Let's
give yourself the par fours usually ten bogie right as
a win. So we're looking at potentially at least right
(19:57):
around eight nine ten over at the very worst, and
then a par on a or on a par three
would be spectacular as well. And so we're coming down
the stretch just thinking of w's and l's and if
we hit a bad shot, you'll probably have one more
chance to recover. If you're not, just pick up to L.
(20:18):
Forget all the emotions. It's just an L and go
to the next hole. Try to get a W.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, when you gave me, you kind of printed out
all the stuff you know with regards to this game,
the why behind this game. You put down training the
discipline code. Yes, what is the discipline code? And how
can you train the discipline code? Well, this is a could.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Be a long story. We could make it a real short,
but I have created an AI golf coach, and he's
basically trained in all levels of discipline from the military,
college football coaches like Nick Saban, some minifold guys like Belichick,
b Lombardy and this. The plan is the basic concept
(21:01):
of discipline is you commit to doing something regardless of
the motivation, essentially, so you do it no matter what.
Whereas you can be motivated to go out and beat
this kid or motivated to go out and change my swing.
The discipline code basically helps you do the things you
don't want to do even though you said you wanted
to do them at any time. And there's a lot
(21:23):
of principles in discipline, and you can go online and
research a ton of stuff, but it really comes down
to three or four pillars based on essentially extreme ownership
process and managing the chaos for golfers.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
One of the things that we're always talking to our
junior golfers, people trying to compete who aren't at the
level that they want when we're evaluating and we're looking
at their scoring. Right, I just don't think people a
lot of people that are listening to this podcast follow
other sports right and mistakes in other sports teams, sports
(22:00):
the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, football, soccer, Formula one.
Right mistakes and the mistakes that people make at the
elite sport level have such catastrophic results or effects on
their results. Right, throwing interceptions as a quarterback, it's very
(22:23):
hard in the NFL, or in the NFL season in
the US right now, it's very, very difficult if you've
got a quarterback that is throwing a lot of interceptions.
You know, I said to Noah Kent the other night,
I said, but right now, you're Jameis Winston, Right, Jameis
Winston's quarterback played at Florida State. Tried to play. He's
throwing four touchdowns, four hundred and fifty yards worth of
(22:47):
passing five interceptions, and the team loses on a last
second field goal by one point, meaning he can't out
play and outperform the mistakes he's making. And when we're
looking at players scorecards and stuff, I'm always trying to
say to players, Listen, you have to understand how catastrophic
(23:09):
and how detrimental making double and triple bogies and quads
are to your score. Because for ninety nine percent of
us that play this sport, we can't recover from the
mistakes we made because we're just not good enough. Our
talent level just isn't there. Right. My trainer Pierre you
(23:35):
know Soroh, he's got some status. He's playing in Macal
this week, first round of the tournament, shoots forty on
the front. Yep has to shoot thirty two on the back,
thirties five out of his last seven holes to shoot
sixty nine. That is not a reality. It's crazy for
(23:56):
almost everybody listening to this podcast going to do that.
You're not you don't have the depth of talent and
the toolbox to be able to shoot forty on the
front nine and shoot thirty two on the back. It's
just not a reality. Yes, it looks like it's a
(24:16):
reality because we're all so focused and watching golf on
TV and we see players do that. We see Rory
McRoy shoot thirty nine to thirty right and shoot sixty
nine and in the in the interview say yeah, you know,
I man, I didn't play great on the front and
you know, really didn't have it and then I found
something on the back and then knew I had to
make a bunch of birdies coming in and lighting it up.
(24:37):
And stuff like that, because at the tour level on Thursday,
if you go out on any tour, doesn't matter where
you're playing, doesn't matter which side of the tee you're on,
whether you're playing the front or the back. You shoot
forty on your first nine as a professional golfer, and
you know in your head you are already on the
(25:00):
cut line. You are going to be on the cut.
If you do that on the corn ferry, you might
as well just go home because you are not going
to recover. My point behind that. Professional golfers will know that,
let's say they're unless it's a major or a real
I'm talking a rank and file run of the mill
tour event, non major, non superstar, Riviera type golf course
(25:28):
where they've played majors, where you know that ten under
is probably gonna win, single digits is probably gonna win. Right,
you shoot forty on the front, you throw a double
bogie in there, you are going to spend the next
couple hours, the next couple hours of that round, for
the next nine, and then all eighteen the following day
trying to make being right on the cut line, and
(25:49):
every single birdie put you have is life or death.
Whether you're going to make the cut. Every hard put
you have is life or death, whether you're going to
make the cut, every bogie put, every mistake you make.
And I think the discipline code for people that are
non competitive golfers is having an understanding as to how
(26:11):
detrimental these big numbers are and the thought process around
these big numbers. What were you thinking? What was your
strategy when you get out of position? That's the other
thing I think a game like this can really really
help players change. Is Okay, I've hit a bad T shot. Okay,
(26:32):
I've got myself in a situation that's not ideal. Okay,
what does my strategy become now? If from an errant
T shot, a win for me is to make a bogie,
or if you're playing the other game, a win for
me is to make a par better.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yes, when it comes to like extreme ownership, you're taking
responsibility for that plug line in the bunker as a
strategy problem, not necessarily a technical problem when you're playing.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Because everybody listening to this podcast is as a golfer.
I think if you're a golfer, you're predeposed to do
one thing. You're predeposed in your head and your thinking
and your brain to think everything that happens on the
golf course is technical. Right. If I could just make
(27:25):
my swing better on the range, this wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
There's no pickup basketball player on the golf course where
we can just go out down the road here and
play some pickup basketball. We're not thinking about how to shoot,
We're not thinking about how to dribble. We're just playing
the game.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, for the people listening outside, just soccer football five
A side three aside, right, the strategy, the technique is
very very different in that game. Then if you have
the full amount of teams on the court three on
three basketball, right, half court basketball, right, the strategy is
very very different than if you're playing a full NBA
(28:04):
game with referees and timeouts and all of the things
and all of the players. And I just one of
the things that I'm always ryan trying to get people
to think about is golf is thought of. You know,
Rory McElroy's comments at the Writer Cup about hey, golf
needs to be different and stuff like that, all fine, right,
But I do think that people think that golf is
(28:27):
its own alternate universe of a sport. Where none of
the other things. Because most of the time, I think
if people were playing golf and the way that they
play golf, given their talent level, if they were going
to try and play any of the sports that they
watch that they're fans of that are important to them,
(28:51):
NFL football suck. You know, world.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Anything right, you'd never succeed because there's nobody in the
real sports and golf you can think about golf like
other sports are played.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yes, minimize the mistakes. We don't have to do anything
really special here. You know, again, going back to the
fact that we're in the US now, NFL football, it's
all about for the coaching staffs and for the game
plans to try and say listen, hey, we're just gonna
go out and try and control the things that we
can control. You know, practice was great this week, but
(29:29):
we're gonna see if any of this works in the game.
And then when they lose, they come back and say, listen,
you know, we got to look at the game plan.
We got to look at how we did things, or hey,
we had a great game plan today. I thought we
did a lot of things really really well. Today. We
just got beat. So maybe it's you know, one of
the things they're always trying to figure out in team
sports is did the team beat themselves or did the
(29:51):
team Did the team play bad and lose? Did the
team play bad and win and get a couple of breaks? Right?
I just don't think golfers think about the game. They're
trying to play the way they've played other sports and
the way other sports that they watch are being played, right.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I mean, I would disagree with what Roy you're saying.
I don't know specifically what he's referring to, but I'm
trying to coach golf like other other sports, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But Rory was saying it from a crowd standpoint that
your element, and he said, listen, golf needs and should
be different. And I agree with it from that standpoint,
But I think that sometimes perpetuates this in my brain,
this myth that golf and the way it's played is
(30:40):
so different than every other sport. It's not. And I
think this game will make you think about the way
other sports are being played another. In team sports, it's
two teams playing. One team wins, one team loses. You
can evaluate how the team won and you can evaluate
how the team loss. But at the end of the day,
(31:02):
if you're eight, no, and you're two and six, right,
So if you won eight and have no losses, how
you've done that? Yeah, it's important, But at the end
of the day, the only thing that really matters is
you've won eight games and you don't have any losses.
If you're if you played eight games, you've won two
and you've lost six. You can evaluate all you want,
(31:27):
why and how, But at the end of the day,
the team is two and six, right. So I think
this game of switching it and saying listen, think of
it like team sports. Every time you go to play
a whole there's going to be a winning team and
there's going to be a losing team. Yep. And your
(31:49):
goal is to be on the winning team. How you
do that, don't care, doesn't matter. The only job is
to go to term we use in the US, get
a W. Go get the win. Brad Gilbert the famous
tennis player who's now tennis coach, who's great commentator. He
wrote a book called Winning Ugly. He did not have
(32:10):
a great game, He was not blessed with a lot
of the things that he won. He found a way
to win ugly. He kind of coined the phrase of
winning ugly, So you can go out on the golf
course with this game and win ugly. The only thing
that matters is you made poor or better, bogie or better,
(32:32):
And the only thing that doesn't matter is what happens
if you don't move on.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So we're really kind of judging the hopefully, we're judging
the process. We're not judging the final score on each hole.
We're not letting those emotions take over whether it's high
or low, two words in a railwa or two triples
in a row. You're just judging yourself in the process.
We talk about it all the time. Was your process
the problem on that chat? Does it lead to wn album?
(33:00):
Let's find out.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So give me some keys to try and have kind
of an eighteen win perfect season right on the golf course.
So if the goal was par or better as a win,
if the goal of the game is bogie or better
as a win, you can adjust that based off of Yeah,
your TOOLBIOX, handicap and stuff like that. But what are
(33:27):
some of in your opinion, the key principles, the key
things you need to focus on to create that kind
of more winning season as opposed to a losing season.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah. So the first concept I would say is, you know,
we're going into this eighteen whole season and we're gonna
lose some we're gonna win something, and regardless, I'm gonna
play my best. I'm gonna keep their risk level minimum,
and off we go. I think we're gonna be honest
with ourselves. Do we need to give ourselves a w
(34:01):
is actually a bogie or better on maybe a long
part four or whatever.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Maybe take adjust the game and say, okay, look at
the hardest holes on the golf course. Look at the
easiest holes on your golf course. The easiest holes on
your golf course, play the part or better game. Ye
the harder holes on your golf course, play the bogey
game or better yep.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So we're taking the emotions out of it, and we're
not going to be score chasing. So if we're coming
down the stretch, hopefully we don't even know what our
technical score is. We just know what our win loss
record is. We can carry that sense of process and
confidence into that next match and then next into the
next hole. You're not chasing the score, which just is
(34:43):
basically an emotional toll for anybody.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
We were talking to the team Flow kids the other
day and Richard Johnson came in. He's working with Matt.
Richard had a fifteen year career from Sweden, lives here
in Jupiter, one on the European Tour, one on the
PGA tour and stuff, and we were trying to talk
to him, get him to talk to some of the
kids about strategy. He said, work backwards from the green YEP.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
That's the first thing.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
What does that mean? And how can that help players?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
How can I get to the green from the ferryway
from the tea basically right, instead of trying to hit
I think.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Everybody starts from the tee and then works from the
tee to the green. YEP. This concept and this idea
is start at the green and work backwards. So when
you're starting at the green and working backwards, what does
that look like? And what should everyone listening be thinking? Right?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So is this small green? Okay, small green? I probably
need to get closer in my next shot. Does it
take a drive and an iron shot to get there?
Maybe it does. So play that par four as a
three shotter if you will to get to the green safely,
and then we have a chance to make a par
with one putt, we're with two putts, and then off
(35:58):
the tea, where can I say myself best for that
approach into the green or into the layer position. And
if there's a bunker or a tree or water we
need to carry, perhaps you actually don't need to carry it.
Maybe we need to push out to one side or
the other with a different club so we can make
sure we get to that next location. For the layout
(36:20):
planning in reverse, instead of trying to solve the first problem,
which is off the tee, we're solving the last problem,
which is getting to the green.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
The other thing that you and I talk about a
lot that I think is really really important in trying
to improve your scores on the golf course is conservative
targets and committed swings to conservative targets.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, it's amazing how many times we hear it. I
just did not think it was the right play and
I hit it anyway. You know those type of anyways moments,
Those are the ones that kill you. Those are the
ones that last. Some linger to rest of the round
because you're score chasing, right.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I think if you're score chasing, you're also flag hunting,
or you are thinking about where the flag is. If
you're trying to break one hundred ninety and eighty for
the first times, I've said this a million times. Don't
even worry about where the flag is. Don't even imagine
(37:27):
the flag is not there, and you are just going
to try and get the ball on the green anywhere.
It doesn't matter if it's front, left, front, right, back, right,
back left, it doesn't matter where the pin is. So
that again is the discipline code of going out. I
think one of the ways to solve this, to play
(37:48):
this game well and to have a good score at
the end of it, is to think less about don't
even think about where the target is. Just hit the green.
We played a game on our Part three course the
other day with some of our kids and some of
our juniors and stuff. Part three are our nine hole
(38:09):
Part three course here the floriding the harmon course. Longest
holl would be one sixty maybe and the shortest eighty,
so the majority are going to be under.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, we're looking at shots between eighty and one to
fifty essentially.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Eight and one fifty nine shots, ninety shots. So what
we did with the team, the only goal was to
hit the green.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yes, pick up if you hit the green, right, If
you hit the green, you pick up. Now here's the
piloty right. If you miss the green, you start back
over on one.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You start back over on one. So if you hit
the first green and you hit the second green, and
you hit the third green, keep going. Obviously, for everyone listening,
it's an embarrassment of riches that were lucky enough to have.
Not everybody has a nine hole par three course that
they can use, right, But this is just an example
of how we're trying to have players conceptually think about
(39:00):
the game differently. So in the in the nine hole
par three game, you could get to the sixth hole
and hit all six greens, you miss the green on
the seventh, you've got to go all the way back.
But it took one of our race.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It's a race, and sadly I won the race, like
the coach should never beat you. But it took one
of our guys like four hours to actually complete the project,
the mission and.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
That struggle, that kind of fight and having to fight
through that, to me is where that's the best practice.
That's the best practice, and that's where that's where you
find the gold, right, that's where you find things. You're like, Okay,
I've just got to completely shift my mindset now, and
so the poor game.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
These are good players too.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, but the par and bogie game. I just think
it's a really good opportunity to just not think so much.
The outcome is par or better. The outcome is bogie
or better, and that's it. How you do that, what
strategy you use to do that? We don't care, and
(40:08):
you shouldn't care.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
A lot of layups, a lot of easy shots off
the tee. You're not chasing, you're just looking for the
w The bogey proof bleeprint game pretty fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I think it's a really really good one. I think
it's going to help a lot of players, and I
think it's going to help players maybe kind of shift
their mindset. Rcy always good stuff. Golf Chaos managed their
Instagram site fo Instagram characters we got out there and
the goal behind that and how you're coming up with it.
(40:39):
Just tell everybody kind of the goal behind it, but
also how you're doing it well.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I think if we just start from the top, it's
kind of our coaching philosophy is making our practice task
based with some sort of high intensity exercise so the
player is physiologically rapped up to practice the show their challenge.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
They're kind of in chaos. This all kind of comes
from you know, I made a comment to you about
you asked me once, you know, when Brooks was on
that kind of it, won four out of eight or
nine of the majors he played in in a very
short period of time, and you asked me, you know,
what's his secrets? Off, I'm like, he kind of likes
(41:19):
the chaos and trying to win a major championship on
Sunday golf course. Trying to win a major championship is
golf chaos, right, It's going to be chaotic, and Brooks
always succeeded in that role and kind of had something
at that time that a lot of people in the
game thought that he had something that they didn't. Is
(41:40):
he kind of liked the fact that it was going
to be chaotic. He thrived in the chaos. I always
call it, you know, trying to win major championships, win tournaments,
but trying to break one hundred ninety and eighty it's
it's the death zone on Everest yep. Right, you think
that you're going to be comfortable that high on the mountain.
(42:02):
But the oxygen gets thin, you start making crazy decisions
and stuff like that, and I think this is a really,
really good one. So Golf Chaos Managed. The idea behind
the instagram is.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
It's you know, it started with Brooks a couple of
years ago that career define a moment we need, delivered
that discipline speech for us.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
It's something I'd never knew he could come up with,
but it was awesome. I made a speech about it
a TPI summit and we've created Golf Chaos Managed. And
it's essentially, you're not practicing under duress enough. And a
lot of it comes from military principles and high performing
principles and football principles and how their sports.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Teams compete and train and practice.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It's all under duress. And we can't have any growth
without the duress. So if you're out there just casually
hidden wedges with nothing on the line, what are we
even doing When we're playing the par three game and
it's a race from the first hole to the ninth hole,
you must hit each screen consecutively.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
That is duress.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You can recreate it on your own practice tee if
you wanted to, and add a jog if you miss
agree something like that. But essentially it's practicing and growing
under duress.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I think it's really good Golf Chaos Manage. Go check
it out or see great stuff. Yes, sir, so, I
really liked that. That was a really good one. Ryan's
always got great ideas. He's a deep thinker. He thinks
a lot about Brian to help players get better. He
is a kind of unique approach at golf. Chaos Manage
(43:36):
is kind of his pet project Instagram. He uses a
lot of AI with that, and he's a good one.
It's a good game and it can definitely help you
lower your scores. Rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
It's the Son of a Butch podcast
It's the Son of a Butch podcast. I'm your host,
Claude Harmon. So it's off season for me. Got some
time at home, and one of the cool things about
not being on the road is I get to be
back at the Floridian with my team and Ryan Krysler
I've had on the pod before. Ryan and I've been
working together really since two thousand and five, and he's
just such a valuable member of my team. He's a mentor,
(00:21):
he's a confidant, he's a friend, and so when I'm home,
I get to spend time around him and Matt Galan,
who I work with, who I had on the pod recently,
and they really do kind of help recharge me and
kind of give me kind of a boost because at
times I can just be NonStop with the travel, just
trying to get through, you know, my schedule away from
work with tour players. And so I wanted to get
(00:44):
Ryan back on this week because you know, he sits
cross for me in the office and we throw ideas
out at each other, and he came up with a
really great idea about a game that he wanted to
talk about. So I thought I'd be really good to
get him back on. And you know, my goal, all
of our goals is just to help players play better,
learn how to play a game that really is kind
(01:05):
of simple, learn how to play it better. And I
think this is a really good opportunity to listen to
someone who's come up with a really cool game that
can help you lower your scores. All right, Ryan, So,
whenever I think about trying to come up with topics
and content for the podcast, it's always from a space
of trying to figure out real world stuff that players
(01:26):
can work on. And so you and I talk a
lot about different the difference between practicing and playing technique
versus execution. That's kind of a theme. If you've listened
to the podcast before, you know that's a theme that's
hugely important to me. I know it's a theme that's
that's really important to you. So the difference between practicing
golf and playing golf, in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Is what, Well, it's completely separate games, if you will.
If you're practicing golf, you're possibly working on some sort
of technique situation. You're working on, maybe yarders, controlled wedges,
you are are working on, maybe hidden driver in a
certain window, whatever it may be. It's primarily something technical.
(02:06):
We're target based, and when you're playing golf, man, we're
just trying to solve the hole. We're trying to get
apart or Bertie and just get the heck out of there,
not really working on mechanics, working on maybe process and
routine and visualization things like that. But it's completely different
from the typical practice session, if you will.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
And I think a lot of players, you and I
talk about this a lot. I've talked about it on
the pod as well. Yeah, there's two buckets, right, there's
the practice, the technique bucket, there's the performance. There's the
execution bucket. And I think so many players are just
stuck constantly. It's like eighty twenty ninety ten in technique, technique, technique,
(02:48):
golf swing, golf swing, practice, practice practice, they have a
bad round, Get me back to the range, back to
the range. I'm going to play golf today, nine or
eighteen holes. Right, I'm going to go to the golf course.
I'm going to practice for Cheo de Far. I mean,
I see so many of our juniors do that. Right,
Every practice session, every warm up is a practice session, right,
They're getting ready to go play golf. So they want
to get to the they're gonna play golf. Let's say
(03:09):
they're gonna tee off at noon, they're gonna they're gonna
get to the golf course at eight o'clock practice, go
through all their drills, then they're gonna go play. And
it's next to impossible to take the four hours, three hours,
two hours that they've practiced and then go to the
golf course with no thoughts, mind free, mind blank. So
(03:29):
bridging that gap between technique and execution. On the execution side,
it's a really cool game. Ogie proof blueprint game. All right,
what is it? Talk me through it?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Well, Ideally, when you're playing golf, you're out there chasing course,
and the concept behind this game is avoiding bogies at
all costs and playing the role as a risk manager
instead of someone trying to chase or a good score.
And the concept basically is you get eighteen holes or
(04:04):
nine or nine yep, and if you make par better
it's a win.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's a W, so you've won the whole W. So
it's like a match play. If it's par or better,
you're playing against yourself, right, So the only object on
every single hole, on all the par threes and all
the par four's, all the par five's. Is anything par
or better is a win? Anything bogie or more is
(04:31):
a loss a loss.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I could probably adjust that to you. Let's say you're
a ninety shooter, maybe maybe bogie is a win.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, And I think that's the great thing about this
from a handicap standpoint, if you're a higher handicap. I
talk about it all the time. We talk about it
with our students. The way that most people are going
to improve their handicap is to make more bogies, more bogies. Yes,
what we constantly talk about is bogie avoidance. Yes. But
(04:56):
I think there's this mix of you think that the
way that you're going to break one hundred ninety eighty
seventy is to make more birdies, right, even the guys
at the elite level. Noah Kent, who I've had on
the podcast before. Noah's now junior finalist of the twenty
twenty four USM and I played in the MASTERSS this year,
(05:18):
played in the US Open, played two PGA Tour events.
He's now a junior at the University of Florida. Played
a tournament last week. Aaron Hills finished top fifteen, he
made a ten on a two hundred and seventy five
yard drivable part four and then made two double bogies
in that he's trying to qualify earlier this week for
(05:40):
a tournament. Sixty eight sixty nine, three bogies in two
rounds shoots eighty makes a ten and two doubles. We teach,
you know, we were going through our round defense with
some of our team flow kids the other day. You
young player trying to play playing in a minor league tournament.
Four to three puts, two four putts and then a
(06:03):
bunch of doubles and a bunch of triples. And the
thought process behind that is, I need to make more birdies.
I need to make more birdies, and need to make
more birdies. And what is going to help you? I mean,
if you look at making a ten, if you look
at making a double or a triple, if the ten
becomes a nine, you're saving a shot. So taking a
(06:23):
ten and turning it into a double bogie would be
a win. Taking a triple bogie and turning it into
a double or turning it into a bogie is a win.
So going out and playing nine or eighteen holes and
shifting your mindset in the scoring to where there's two outcomes.
You're either winning the hole with par or less. So
(06:44):
if you make a par, you make a birdie, you
make an Eagle's it you want? If you make a
bogie or worse or worse a double, a triple, whatever,
you've lost the hole. So nine holes, you've got nine opportunities,
eighteen holes. You've got eighteen opportunities looking for an eighteen
in a record, which would be just a bunch of pars,
right yes or bern yes? What do you think if
(07:06):
you're doing this, how do you think it shifts the
mindset for the player. So they're going out on the
golf course and as opposed to trying to figure out
I mean, obviously, every time you go out and play,
you look at a scorecard, there's a very small box.
There's not really anything. There's not really any room or
anything in the box other than the score. That's why
(07:29):
the box is so small. Now, what people do is
they write down other things on the scorecard. They write down,
you know, how many fair with R. But if you
look at a scorecard, the only thing that you can
actually put in the box underneath the first hole is
the number.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yes, there's no stories.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So there's no stories, and invariably we go through this
all the time when someone makes a big number, right,
let's say you make a double, a triple, or in
Noah Kent's situation, he makes a ten. I call him
after he shoots ad and I tell them to talk
me through the ten, and it's this elaborate, long drawn
(08:06):
out drama of all happened. And you know, he hit one,
and then he tried to chip it back out in
the fairway, and then it hit a tree and then
it takes an all places. Whenever you make a double
or triple bogie, there's always this elaborate story behind it,
and I think that creates a lot of negativity. I
(08:29):
think it creates kind of an environment for it to
continue to happen, kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Like a little self defense mechanism too. You know, I
blame it on my bad lie. I was plugged in
the ball.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Getting a bad lie, and then I hit one and
then it goes behind a route and then I had
to take it on the tall and all of that.
So if the goal is on every single hole, horror,
better is a win bogie or worse is a loss?
What kind of mindset do you think you need to
get into to try and achieve that on the golf
(08:59):
cour in the game.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
But we're cracking the code on scoring, right, so we're
gonna eliminate scoring, So we don't care as a coach
if it's sixty five or seventy five. I'm looking for
a fourteen and four record right with this game, the
Bogie Blueprint game. That's gonna explain a lot, and the
mindset would be, you know, instead of you know, how
am I going to cut off this corner? How am
(09:23):
I going to carry this bunker? You're going to really
assess the risk of the whole.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, because I think what you said there is quite interesting,
this idea behind score chasing on the golf course where
you're constantly thinking. I mean, obviously, if you're trying to
break one hundred for the first time, any of the
barriers one hundred and ninety eighty break par for the
first rye there is a number. It's number centric, right,
(09:48):
You've got a number in mind. What am I going
to do today to try and go out and shoot
under par? Right? What am I going to do today
to try and break eighty for the first time? And
then as soon as you get behind the eight ball,
you make a mistake, you have a bad hole. The
calculations then become you know, like I always said, most golfers,
(10:10):
regardless of their handicap, you know, to me playing golf,
playing competitive golf, but playing golf in general, especially if
you're in that higher handicap range, trying to break one hundred,
ninety or eighty for the first time. It's knowing when
to play offense, knowing when to play defense. But what
we continually see happen on the golf course is as
(10:32):
soon as something goes wrong on the golf course, as
soon as you get a bad shot, soon as you
get a bad break, soon as you get a bad
lie or something, and something bad happens, the immediate reaction
is straight offense. Push all the chips into the middle
of the table.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I gotta catch up.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Gott to try and make up for that. From a
score standpoint, I've gotta try and go flag hunting.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Now it's a three way from two forty over water
to the back.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I'm taking hyper aggressive lines and stuff like that, so
as I gotta make it up the mindset of taking
the score, the actual real score the way the game
is designed to be played out, and just saying to yourself, Okay,
my number one goal to get a win on the
first hole of my home course is to make par
(11:21):
or better. Yeah, how can I do that?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Number one? To clarity in For example, it's one of
the hardest holes in the course. You can't feel any
wind pairwa's kind of narrow. It's usually left to right.
Everyone hits it right bunker right trees almost every time.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
It can't feel the winds right.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So if we back off and say, hey, you figure
out a way to get a WI on this hole,
maybe it's a different club off the first tee three
would maybe you can draw back into the win a
little bit easier. It's a little straighter shot.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
If you're a higher handicapped player, maybe you say to yourself, okay,
it's a par four. And given my length, given how
far I can hit my driver off the tee, maybe
I start to think of the par fours. If you're
in that one hundred ninety eighty range, the par fours,
(12:09):
given your talent level, should be they should be you're
trying to bogie those, So then you maybe look at
those and say, okay, rather than try and hit my driver,
which I don't really drive the golf ball that well.
I tend most of the golfers that are in those
handicap ranges to generalization, but make the majority of them
slice the golf ball. It curves a lot. If you're
(12:31):
a right handed golfer from right to left, you're looking
at where the trouble is. So say to yourself, Okay,
I'm trying to break a hundred for the first time
all the par fours. I'm just trying to make bogies
on right. If I can make bogie or less, that's
a win. Yep.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
One way we can modify the game, for sure would be,
you know, say, high handicapped player, We're going to have
a w equal a bogie on a par four.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah. You could play this in two ways. You could say, Okay,
I'm going to try it. The win is par or
better if you're a higher handicap player, and if you
look at the toolbox you have, say okay, the goal
would be for me if you're trying to break one
hundred for the first time. If the mindset could be
to play bogie golf yep, consistently bogie golf, then once
(13:20):
you are able to do that consistently, then you can
start to say okay, now, maybe change it up. But
if you're a higher handicap golfer and you're trying to
have these, you know, breakthrough from a score standpoint in
the one hundred and ninety or eighty category, just say, okay,
it's a win on this whole if I make a
bogie or better. So, if I make a bogie, a
(13:42):
par a birdie or an eagle, that's a win. If
I make a double bogie, a triple bogie, anything over bogie,
it's a loss.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yep, you can pick it up too, Pick it up
after double, go to the next toll. Already lost.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Done, Yeah, that would be another way to do. So.
If you're already making a big number, pick it up, done,
go go to the next hole. What's the point of
because you know, if you're staring double bogie in the
face and you've chipped it, you know, you've played ping
pong and hockey around in the trees and stuff, and
(14:18):
you're on a par four and you're in front of
the green trying to go over a bunker to a
tight pin, you're basically staring at making double or triple
and you played one in the bunker. Why get in
there and try and just make it worse, make it worse,
make it worse, because then the next mentally you're just
(14:39):
killing yourself. Pick it up. And again, this is not
you going out and trying to shoot a score for
your handicap. So you're not putting this score in right.
This is a game that you're going out to play
on the golf course. It's a for lack of a
(15:00):
better term, I guess it would be a practice game
that you're using the golf course to play.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Okay, yes, nothing technical about it. Let's say we got
you know, ten par fours, four par threes, four par five.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
And most golfers that are going to be playing golf,
the majority of people listening to this podcast, are going
to play a golf course like that. Yep, ten par fours,
You've got the par threes, you've got the par fives. Now,
if you are playing a more championship old school style,
you might have a par seventy one or are seventy.
(15:36):
But I would venture to say the majority of people
that are playing recreational or competitive golf, you're playing a
golf course where you're gonna have ten chances on the
par fours. You're gonna have four par threes, You're gonna
have four par five. It's interesting that you brought this
game up because I was talking to Noah Kent the
(15:58):
other night, and Noah cruises at one ninety three balls.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
It's ridiculous. It's almost a half swing too.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
It's you know, he can go get over one ninety
five ball speed his mini driver, he can carry three
fifteen in the air. He hits a four iron miles,
his five iron is to twenty five to two thirty
pushes five iron up there. And I said to him,
you know, and I'm looking at his scores and I said,
(16:27):
you know, you have so much speed and so much firepower,
right and you can overpower golf courses. There aren't really
a lot of golf courses he's going to play where
it isn't a realistic option for him to not get
to every par five and two. And he's getting to
the majority of the par fives that he's playing with
(16:49):
an iron yep. Right. So I said to him the
other night, I said, you know, I know you're struggling
and qualifying right now. What I want you to do
for the next month is every time you play around
of golf nine or eighteen, however many par fives you have,
you have to play half and off the tee. You
(17:10):
have to hit five iron and down. You can't hit
a four iron, a driving iron, any of your your woods,
can't hit a driver, you can't imaginerate. You have to
take five iron and down on half of the par
fives that you play. And let's see what that does
(17:31):
from a scoring standpoint. Because at the elite level, the
legit birdie chances that you've got are the par five.
But for everyone else, the legit par chances you have
are the par fives. Right, So the elite competitive golfer,
tour players, elite amateurs, college players, you're playing at an
(17:53):
elite competitive level, your legit chances to improve your score
against or going to be on the four, three or
two par fives that you play. Right. For the rest
of us, those are the legit chances that we have
to make our pars. So it's four opportunities every round
(18:17):
to make four auto pars.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
The auto par yep.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
In your mind, that's a term we use. I'm sure
there are some people that are going to hear that
and go. Hell is an odd What is an auto par?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Auto par basically is put yourself in position like an
a par five, reshot a par five, you know, something
lading up off the tee, a nice layup to the fairway.
Let's say it's one hundred yard short of the green.
Then it's a wedge on the green somewhere in two punts,
so no risk, nothing fancy, nothing around trees, no three
woods over water from two forty five trying to cut
(18:52):
it whatever it is. So we're just looking to build
in like four auto pars minimum, and then maybe there's
one or possibly two short par fours that are let's
say they're three hundred to three point fifty where you
can go, you know, maybe hybrid off the tee, leave
yourself a one thirty shot or something like that, and
maybe it's a nine iron eight on whatever it is,
(19:12):
get on the grand tuoput get the hell out of there.
So it's almost maybe six auto pars per round, so
we've got twelve holes left. Makes sense right with the
bogie proof game, we could set the standard like right now,
maybe if you're a handicap is seven or below, the
par is the win. So anything below par is, the
W anything above pars and L. Maybe if you're trying
(19:35):
to break eighty, you set that set up that standard.
And then maybe for the guy trying to break ninety
for the first time, let's say let's make the wins
the pars and the par fives the auto pars. Let's
give yourself the par fours usually ten bogie right as
a win. So we're looking at potentially at least right
(19:57):
around eight nine ten over at the very worst, and
then a par on a or on a par three
would be spectacular as well. And so we're coming down
the stretch just thinking of w's and l's and if
we hit a bad shot, you'll probably have one more
chance to recover. If you're not, just pick up to L.
(20:18):
Forget all the emotions. It's just an L and go
to the next hole. Try to get a W.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, when you gave me, you kind of printed out
all the stuff you know with regards to this game,
the why behind this game. You put down training the
discipline code. Yes, what is the discipline code? And how
can you train the discipline code? Well, this is a could.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Be a long story. We could make it a real short,
but I have created an AI golf coach, and he's
basically trained in all levels of discipline from the military,
college football coaches like Nick Saban, some minifold guys like Belichick,
b Lombardy and this. The plan is the basic concept
(21:01):
of discipline is you commit to doing something regardless of
the motivation, essentially, so you do it no matter what.
Whereas you can be motivated to go out and beat
this kid or motivated to go out and change my swing.
The discipline code basically helps you do the things you
don't want to do even though you said you wanted
to do them at any time. And there's a lot
(21:23):
of principles in discipline, and you can go online and
research a ton of stuff, but it really comes down
to three or four pillars based on essentially extreme ownership
process and managing the chaos for golfers.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
One of the things that we're always talking to our
junior golfers, people trying to compete who aren't at the
level that they want when we're evaluating and we're looking
at their scoring. Right, I just don't think people a
lot of people that are listening to this podcast follow
other sports right and mistakes in other sports teams, sports
(22:00):
the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, football, soccer, Formula one.
Right mistakes and the mistakes that people make at the
elite sport level have such catastrophic results or effects on
their results. Right, throwing interceptions as a quarterback, it's very
(22:23):
hard in the NFL, or in the NFL season in
the US right now, it's very, very difficult if you've
got a quarterback that is throwing a lot of interceptions.
You know, I said to Noah Kent the other night,
I said, but right now, you're Jameis Winston, Right, Jameis
Winston's quarterback played at Florida State. Tried to play. He's
throwing four touchdowns, four hundred and fifty yards worth of
(22:47):
passing five interceptions, and the team loses on a last
second field goal by one point, meaning he can't out
play and outperform the mistakes he's making. And when we're
looking at players scorecards and stuff, I'm always trying to
say to players, Listen, you have to understand how catastrophic
(23:09):
and how detrimental making double and triple bogies and quads
are to your score. Because for ninety nine percent of
us that play this sport, we can't recover from the
mistakes we made because we're just not good enough. Our
talent level just isn't there. Right. My trainer Pierre you
(23:35):
know Soroh, he's got some status. He's playing in Macal
this week, first round of the tournament, shoots forty on
the front. Yep has to shoot thirty two on the back,
thirties five out of his last seven holes to shoot
sixty nine. That is not a reality. It's crazy for
(23:56):
almost everybody listening to this podcast going to do that.
You're not you don't have the depth of talent and
the toolbox to be able to shoot forty on the
front nine and shoot thirty two on the back. It's
just not a reality. Yes, it looks like it's a
(24:16):
reality because we're all so focused and watching golf on
TV and we see players do that. We see Rory
McRoy shoot thirty nine to thirty right and shoot sixty
nine and in the in the interview say yeah, you know,
I man, I didn't play great on the front and
you know, really didn't have it and then I found
something on the back and then knew I had to
make a bunch of birdies coming in and lighting it up.
(24:37):
And stuff like that, because at the tour level on Thursday,
if you go out on any tour, doesn't matter where
you're playing, doesn't matter which side of the tee you're on,
whether you're playing the front or the back. You shoot
forty on your first nine as a professional golfer, and
you know in your head you are already on the
(25:00):
cut line. You are going to be on the cut.
If you do that on the corn ferry, you might
as well just go home because you are not going
to recover. My point behind that. Professional golfers will know that,
let's say they're unless it's a major or a real
I'm talking a rank and file run of the mill
tour event, non major, non superstar, Riviera type golf course
(25:28):
where they've played majors, where you know that ten under
is probably gonna win, single digits is probably gonna win. Right,
you shoot forty on the front, you throw a double
bogie in there, you are going to spend the next
couple hours, the next couple hours of that round, for
the next nine, and then all eighteen the following day
trying to make being right on the cut line, and
(25:49):
every single birdie put you have is life or death.
Whether you're going to make the cut. Every hard put
you have is life or death, whether you're going to
make the cut, every bogie put, every mistake you make.
And I think the discipline code for people that are
non competitive golfers is having an understanding as to how
(26:11):
detrimental these big numbers are and the thought process around
these big numbers. What were you thinking? What was your
strategy when you get out of position? That's the other
thing I think a game like this can really really
help players change. Is Okay, I've hit a bad T shot. Okay,
(26:32):
I've got myself in a situation that's not ideal. Okay,
what does my strategy become now? If from an errant
T shot, a win for me is to make a bogie,
or if you're playing the other game, a win for
me is to make a par better.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yes, when it comes to like extreme ownership, you're taking
responsibility for that plug line in the bunker as a
strategy problem, not necessarily a technical problem when you're playing.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Because everybody listening to this podcast is as a golfer.
I think if you're a golfer, you're predeposed to do
one thing. You're predeposed in your head and your thinking
and your brain to think everything that happens on the
golf course is technical. Right. If I could just make
(27:25):
my swing better on the range, this wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
There's no pickup basketball player on the golf course where
we can just go out down the road here and
play some pickup basketball. We're not thinking about how to shoot,
We're not thinking about how to dribble. We're just playing
the game.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, for the people listening outside, just soccer football five
A side three aside, right, the strategy, the technique is
very very different in that game. Then if you have
the full amount of teams on the court three on
three basketball, right, half court basketball, right, the strategy is
very very different than if you're playing a full NBA
(28:04):
game with referees and timeouts and all of the things
and all of the players. And I just one of
the things that I'm always ryan trying to get people
to think about is golf is thought of. You know,
Rory McElroy's comments at the Writer Cup about hey, golf
needs to be different and stuff like that, all fine, right,
But I do think that people think that golf is
(28:27):
its own alternate universe of a sport. Where none of
the other things. Because most of the time, I think
if people were playing golf and the way that they
play golf, given their talent level, if they were going
to try and play any of the sports that they
watch that they're fans of that are important to them,
(28:51):
NFL football suck. You know, world.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Anything right, you'd never succeed because there's nobody in the
real sports and golf you can think about golf like
other sports are played.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yes, minimize the mistakes. We don't have to do anything
really special here. You know, again, going back to the
fact that we're in the US now, NFL football, it's
all about for the coaching staffs and for the game
plans to try and say listen, hey, we're just gonna
go out and try and control the things that we
can control. You know, practice was great this week, but
(29:29):
we're gonna see if any of this works in the game.
And then when they lose, they come back and say, listen,
you know, we got to look at the game plan.
We got to look at how we did things, or hey,
we had a great game plan today. I thought we
did a lot of things really really well. Today. We
just got beat. So maybe it's you know, one of
the things they're always trying to figure out in team
sports is did the team beat themselves or did the
(29:51):
team Did the team play bad and lose? Did the
team play bad and win and get a couple of breaks? Right?
I just don't think golfers think about the game. They're
trying to play the way they've played other sports and
the way other sports that they watch are being played, right.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I mean, I would disagree with what Roy you're saying.
I don't know specifically what he's referring to, but I'm
trying to coach golf like other other sports, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
But Rory was saying it from a crowd standpoint that
your element, and he said, listen, golf needs and should
be different. And I agree with it from that standpoint,
But I think that sometimes perpetuates this in my brain,
this myth that golf and the way it's played is
(30:40):
so different than every other sport. It's not. And I
think this game will make you think about the way
other sports are being played another. In team sports, it's
two teams playing. One team wins, one team loses. You
can evaluate how the team won and you can evaluate
how the team loss. But at the end of the day,
(31:02):
if you're eight, no, and you're two and six, right,
So if you won eight and have no losses, how
you've done that? Yeah, it's important, But at the end
of the day, the only thing that really matters is
you've won eight games and you don't have any losses.
If you're if you played eight games, you've won two
and you've lost six. You can evaluate all you want,
(31:27):
why and how, But at the end of the day,
the team is two and six, right. So I think
this game of switching it and saying listen, think of
it like team sports. Every time you go to play
a whole there's going to be a winning team and
there's going to be a losing team. Yep. And your
(31:49):
goal is to be on the winning team. How you
do that, don't care, doesn't matter. The only job is
to go to term we use in the US, get
a W. Go get the win. Brad Gilbert the famous
tennis player who's now tennis coach, who's great commentator. He
wrote a book called Winning Ugly. He did not have
(32:10):
a great game, He was not blessed with a lot
of the things that he won. He found a way
to win ugly. He kind of coined the phrase of
winning ugly, So you can go out on the golf
course with this game and win ugly. The only thing
that matters is you made poor or better, bogie or better,
(32:32):
And the only thing that doesn't matter is what happens
if you don't move on.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So we're really kind of judging the hopefully, we're judging
the process. We're not judging the final score on each hole.
We're not letting those emotions take over whether it's high
or low, two words in a railwa or two triples
in a row. You're just judging yourself in the process.
We talk about it all the time. Was your process
the problem on that chat? Does it lead to wn album?
(33:00):
Let's find out.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So give me some keys to try and have kind
of an eighteen win perfect season right on the golf course.
So if the goal was par or better as a win,
if the goal of the game is bogie or better
as a win, you can adjust that based off of Yeah,
your TOOLBIOX, handicap and stuff like that. But what are
(33:27):
some of in your opinion, the key principles, the key
things you need to focus on to create that kind
of more winning season as opposed to a losing season.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah. So the first concept I would say is, you know,
we're going into this eighteen whole season and we're gonna
lose some we're gonna win something, and regardless, I'm gonna
play my best. I'm gonna keep their risk level minimum,
and off we go. I think we're gonna be honest
with ourselves. Do we need to give ourselves a w
(34:01):
is actually a bogie or better on maybe a long
part four or whatever.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Maybe take adjust the game and say, okay, look at
the hardest holes on the golf course. Look at the
easiest holes on your golf course. The easiest holes on
your golf course, play the part or better game. Ye
the harder holes on your golf course, play the bogey
game or better yep.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So we're taking the emotions out of it, and we're
not going to be score chasing. So if we're coming
down the stretch, hopefully we don't even know what our
technical score is. We just know what our win loss
record is. We can carry that sense of process and
confidence into that next match and then next into the
next hole. You're not chasing the score, which just is
(34:43):
basically an emotional toll for anybody.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
We were talking to the team Flow kids the other
day and Richard Johnson came in. He's working with Matt.
Richard had a fifteen year career from Sweden, lives here
in Jupiter, one on the European Tour, one on the
PGA tour and stuff, and we were trying to talk
to him, get him to talk to some of the
kids about strategy. He said, work backwards from the green YEP.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
That's the first thing.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
What does that mean? And how can that help players?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
How can I get to the green from the ferryway
from the tea basically right, instead of trying to hit
I think.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Everybody starts from the tee and then works from the
tee to the green. YEP. This concept and this idea
is start at the green and work backwards. So when
you're starting at the green and working backwards, what does
that look like? And what should everyone listening be thinking? Right?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So is this small green? Okay, small green? I probably
need to get closer in my next shot. Does it
take a drive and an iron shot to get there?
Maybe it does. So play that par four as a
three shotter if you will to get to the green safely,
and then we have a chance to make a par
with one putt, we're with two putts, and then off
(35:58):
the tea, where can I say myself best for that
approach into the green or into the layer position. And
if there's a bunker or a tree or water we
need to carry, perhaps you actually don't need to carry it.
Maybe we need to push out to one side or
the other with a different club so we can make
sure we get to that next location. For the layout
(36:20):
planning in reverse, instead of trying to solve the first problem,
which is off the tee, we're solving the last problem,
which is getting to the green.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
The other thing that you and I talk about a
lot that I think is really really important in trying
to improve your scores on the golf course is conservative
targets and committed swings to conservative targets.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, it's amazing how many times we hear it. I
just did not think it was the right play and
I hit it anyway. You know those type of anyways moments,
Those are the ones that kill you. Those are the
ones that last. Some linger to rest of the round
because you're score chasing, right.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I think if you're score chasing, you're also flag hunting,
or you are thinking about where the flag is. If
you're trying to break one hundred ninety and eighty for
the first times, I've said this a million times. Don't
even worry about where the flag is. Don't even imagine
(37:27):
the flag is not there, and you are just going
to try and get the ball on the green anywhere.
It doesn't matter if it's front, left, front, right, back, right,
back left, it doesn't matter where the pin is. So
that again is the discipline code of going out. I
think one of the ways to solve this, to play
(37:48):
this game well and to have a good score at
the end of it, is to think less about don't
even think about where the target is. Just hit the green.
We played a game on our Part three course the
other day with some of our kids and some of
our juniors and stuff. Part three are our nine hole
(38:09):
Part three course here the floriding the harmon course. Longest
holl would be one sixty maybe and the shortest eighty,
so the majority are going to be under.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, we're looking at shots between eighty and one to
fifty essentially.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Eight and one fifty nine shots, ninety shots. So what
we did with the team, the only goal was to
hit the green.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yes, pick up if you hit the green, right, If
you hit the green, you pick up. Now here's the
piloty right. If you miss the green, you start back
over on one.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You start back over on one. So if you hit
the first green and you hit the second green, and
you hit the third green, keep going. Obviously, for everyone listening,
it's an embarrassment of riches that were lucky enough to have.
Not everybody has a nine hole par three course that
they can use, right, But this is just an example
of how we're trying to have players conceptually think about
(39:00):
the game differently. So in the in the nine hole
par three game, you could get to the sixth hole
and hit all six greens, you miss the green on
the seventh, you've got to go all the way back.
But it took one of our race.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It's a race, and sadly I won the race, like
the coach should never beat you. But it took one
of our guys like four hours to actually complete the project,
the mission and.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
That struggle, that kind of fight and having to fight
through that, to me is where that's the best practice.
That's the best practice, and that's where that's where you
find the gold, right, that's where you find things. You're like, Okay,
I've just got to completely shift my mindset now, and
so the poor game.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
These are good players too.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, but the par and bogie game. I just think
it's a really good opportunity to just not think so much.
The outcome is par or better. The outcome is bogie
or better, and that's it. How you do that, what
strategy you use to do that? We don't care, and
(40:08):
you shouldn't care.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
A lot of layups, a lot of easy shots off
the tee. You're not chasing, you're just looking for the
w The bogey proof bleeprint game pretty fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
I think it's a really really good one. I think
it's going to help a lot of players, and I
think it's going to help players maybe kind of shift
their mindset. Rcy always good stuff. Golf Chaos managed their
Instagram site fo Instagram characters we got out there and
the goal behind that and how you're coming up with it.
(40:39):
Just tell everybody kind of the goal behind it, but
also how you're doing it well.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I think if we just start from the top, it's
kind of our coaching philosophy is making our practice task
based with some sort of high intensity exercise so the
player is physiologically rapped up to practice the show their challenge.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
They're kind of in chaos. This all kind of comes
from you know, I made a comment to you about
you asked me once, you know, when Brooks was on
that kind of it, won four out of eight or
nine of the majors he played in in a very
short period of time, and you asked me, you know,
what's his secrets? Off, I'm like, he kind of likes
(41:19):
the chaos and trying to win a major championship on
Sunday golf course. Trying to win a major championship is
golf chaos, right, It's going to be chaotic, and Brooks
always succeeded in that role and kind of had something
at that time that a lot of people in the
game thought that he had something that they didn't. Is
(41:40):
he kind of liked the fact that it was going
to be chaotic. He thrived in the chaos. I always
call it, you know, trying to win major championships, win tournaments,
but trying to break one hundred ninety and eighty it's
it's the death zone on Everest yep. Right, you think
that you're going to be comfortable that high on the mountain.
(42:02):
But the oxygen gets thin, you start making crazy decisions
and stuff like that, and I think this is a really,
really good one. So Golf Chaos Managed. The idea behind
the instagram is.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
It's you know, it started with Brooks a couple of
years ago that career define a moment we need, delivered
that discipline speech for us.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
It's something I'd never knew he could come up with,
but it was awesome. I made a speech about it
a TPI summit and we've created Golf Chaos Managed. And
it's essentially, you're not practicing under duress enough. And a
lot of it comes from military principles and high performing
principles and football principles and how their sports.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Teams compete and train and practice.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It's all under duress. And we can't have any growth
without the duress. So if you're out there just casually
hidden wedges with nothing on the line, what are we
even doing When we're playing the par three game and
it's a race from the first hole to the ninth hole,
you must hit each screen consecutively.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
That is duress.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You can recreate it on your own practice tee if
you wanted to, and add a jog if you miss
agree something like that. But essentially it's practicing and growing
under duress.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I think it's really good Golf Chaos Manage. Go check
it out or see great stuff. Yes, sir, so, I
really liked that. That was a really good one. Ryan's
always got great ideas. He's a deep thinker. He thinks
a lot about Brian to help players get better. He
is a kind of unique approach at golf. Chaos Manage
(43:36):
is kind of his pet project Instagram. He uses a
lot of AI with that, and he's a good one.
It's a good game and it can definitely help you
lower your scores. Rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
It's the Son of a Butch podcast
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