December 28, 2022 • 37 mins
Did you know there was a different drag character BEFORE BenDeLaCreme came to exist?! The self-eliminating yet terminally delightful, BenDeLaCreme joins Alec and Loni to discuss her best moments from Season 6 and All Stars 3 and how drag helped her in through some pretty hard times and those years of self-discovery. And you know our terrific twosome had to ask about the dynamic duo that is Jinkx and DeLa. Plus, Loni and Alec give each other flowers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome back to another episode of
The Squirrel Friends, the Official RuPaul's Draguas Podcast. I'm Alec
Mapa and my only job is to introduce the Queen
of all Things, the Queen of show Business, America's sister,
Lottie LoVa. Hello, how done. I've been good. I've been
working and I've been stalking you on Instagram. When I
(00:26):
say that you're the Queen of show Business, you've literally
met everybody. You have a video on your Instagram of
you interviewing Dolly Parton. Yes, that blew my mind. How
long ago was that? This was maybe about five years
ago when I interviewed Dolly, and um I had the opportunity.
It was when we were still doing The Real and
my producer called me on a Friday and said, you
(00:49):
can interview Dolly Parton tomorrow, but it's a Saturday. And
I was like, what does that matter? It's Dolly Parton.
So she let me go and interview Dolly. And when
I say she was she was having a performance. It
was in Santa Barbara at a theater out there, and
I was the only interview and they had it set
(01:09):
up with her clothes, they had all of her guitars,
they had all of her wigs as like a backdrop.
It was awesome and I sat down and had the
best twenty minutes of my life with her. And I remember,
you know, because whenever I interviewed someone, I always tried
to put in an effort. Uh. I always try to
(01:34):
put in a question that is about my culture. And
one of the things that I loved about Dolly Partners.
A lot of people know that she wrote I Will
Always Love You, which was famously covered by Whitney Houston.
So the question that I asked her, I said, how
did you feel about a paraphrase? Because it's so long ago,
how did you feel about Whitney remaking your song? And
(01:56):
it actually, you know, it became this great hit and
she's it, honey. I don't care as long as I
get the money. There's a famous story about like Elvis
Presley wanted to sing that song after you heard it,
but he wanted to sing it and then get the
writing credit, because a lot of a lot of pop
(02:17):
stars do that. If like I'm going to do your song,
then part of the thing is I'm bringing it to
this bigger audience and I want the writing credit. For it.
I want the rights to it. And Dolly said, well
you can sing it, but no, exactly fine. Yeah, And
were you nervous? Were you excited? I would be nervous
just because she's like one of the most talented people
you know on the planet. You have nerves for the
(02:38):
first two minutes, and then once she starts talking to you,
it's like you love people. That's not judgment, you know.
I know this lady don't know me, but she she
sees me as an interviewer, and she saw me as
a woman, and it was just great. And so that
as an interviewer, it helps you to calm down and
get your focus correct and straight, you know I mean,
(03:00):
And she was just lovely. She talked about her husband.
Um I asked her about hip hop because I said,
you've been so kind of what you think about, you know,
maybe doing a duet with Snoop Dogg. And she said, well,
you know, I'm not into that, but my husband listens
to Snoop Dogg and and and started reciting. It was
just you can go on YouTube and check out that
Dolly Party interview. But I just love this and we
(03:22):
have a great interview today that I'm very excited about.
Speaking of talent, speaking of talented queens, we have Ben
de la Creme. Ben de la Creme, who killed it
on All Stars and killed it on season six, is
with us today. And she's a Seattle queen. She is
a theater queen. She's written so many shows post Drag Race,
(03:45):
She's done a lot of live performances post Drag Race,
and we can't wait to talk to her today. Cannot wait.
So you know what, Squirrel friends, just go, get you
some water, get you some tea, get your dope beverage
if you're over eighteen, over twenty one, and come. We'll
be right back. Well, be right back, Okay, squirrel Friends,
(04:13):
our guest today. You know from RuPaul's Drag Race season six,
where she was named Miss Congeniality and All Stars three
Hide the White Out famously said herself home. She is
terminally delightful and we are terminally delighted that she is here. Please,
welcome to the program. Bendela Graham, who I thank you
(04:37):
for having me? Well, First, how are you how you been?
I'm doing well. I'm on the road right now on tour,
and you know, it's great to be great to be
hitting the boards once again. How many stops have you
made so far? Oh god, I don't know. I just
wake up and put on makeup and walk on stage.
I don't know. We're about halfway through it, maybe a
(04:59):
little more than halfway through the tour, and I think
it's thirty three shows total, so I don't know. Half
of Third Degree is sixteen and a half. I was
told there wasn't gonna be any math on this test.
Lonnie Bendla is on the road with their holiday show
with Jinks. Wonderful it is, and and folks, if you've
(05:22):
never seen, um the Christmas Special, uh, it's currently on Hulu,
the Jinks and Della Holiday Special. It is so great.
I watched it like NonStop for the past couple of years.
Thank you. Yeah, no, I'm I'm so proud of that.
You know, it's really like it was a crazy thing
we had to figure out how to do in the
pandemic when we couldn't be on the road with this.
(05:44):
But um, but it's so good to be you know.
Last year was our first year back with the live
Holiday show and we got cut short about two thirds
of the way through with COVID, which was a bumber
I'm knocking on wood right now. That's not a sound error.
And I um, but you know, things are going so
well this year. And every year, you know, we write
(06:05):
a new show for the stage show, so it was
like a bummer not to get to get all that
material to the West Coast last year. So um, but
this year I think is the best show we've ever written.
So I'm really excited. Can't wait. Okay, um, you know
we love you from Drag Race, And let's talk about
(06:26):
your experience on season six. How was that? Um, you
know it was. I don't know. It was good. It
was so long ago now, you know, it's like asking
somebody about their childhood and they're like, oh, it was wonderful.
It was ideal, Like oh right, no, I repressed all
these other memories. Um, yeah, no, Season six was I
don't know it was. I was. I didn't know what
(06:47):
I was going into. You know, so many of my
you know, my more recent experience obviously was on All Stars,
when I knew exactly what to expect, I knew exactly
what I was going into. Kind of deal with season
six was when you go on that show for the
first time. And I think especially in those early single
digit seasons. Like now people kind of know more what
they're getting into, but we really didn't, like, you know,
(07:10):
fortunately I had Jins on season five. She sort of
gave me a little bit of a primer of what
it would be like. But it was just so weird.
It was unlike anything I'd ever done. And uh, you know,
suddenly going from doing local stuff in Seattle to being
in a TV studio for the first time and having
all these people, you know, dreg queens were like in
charge of everything, like we run every aspect of our
(07:33):
business and our lives, and then you go into this
scenario where you are not in charge of anything, and
it's just crazy. But there were all these other super
talented queens, and I was really like in awe of
everyone and very nervous. I mean, I was nervous the
whole time I was on season six. It was like,
you know, it's just it's a lot of unknowns. You're right,
(07:54):
it does seem like a long time ago, and there's
so many legendary queens that came out of that season
six season. We're talking Bianca Adore, Courtney Dairy, and you
Jocelyn Fox, Lagana Na everybody's seeing those people for the
first time. So to walk into an arena where it's
(08:15):
like all killer, no filler, Yeah, it sounds like you
had to surrender a lot of control. Oh absolutely, yeah,
and it's you know, and that's all you can do anyways,
you know, it's just about getting in there and rolling
with whatever happens. But it definitely, I mean, needing that
cast was very you know, I wasn't even necessarily familiar
with all of the queen's beforehand, but just walk into
(08:36):
this wall of talent and you can just kind of
feel it, you know, and it was, you know, looking
back at it, I know I'm especially biased, but I
think it is. It's just objectively one of just the
craziest pasts in terms of it's my favorite season. Don't
tell anybody. I mean, I have to say I love
season four. I love season four, and I love season five.
(08:58):
But there is something really specific about season six cast.
What made it specific? What made that cast just like
a crazy cast for you? Well, I think it's like
at that point, you know, I don't know this is theories,
but at that point, I think drag Race had enough
of its legs that people were really you know, right, like,
now we're into it where we've got all these queens
(09:19):
who are on drag Race because they gotten a drag
because of drag Race. Season six still that era before
that happened, right, Like, like Liganda and a Door are
probably two of the first queens to ever have been
on drag Race that were like young and coming up
while drag Race was airing. Everyone on season's prior with
somebody who started drag before drag Race, right, And so
(09:41):
it's like a thing where there's a certain different type
of passion. I think that comes from a queen pre
drag Race, where they there was no chance of fame
or fortune before drag Race became popular. You became a directly,
you became a drag queen in spite of the fact
that you would never be famous. You just had to
love it that much, you know. So there's a specific
quality you see, I think to the queens on season
(10:02):
five and earlier, and then most of us on season
six as well. And at that point it's like queens
like Bianca who are maybe like, I don't know about
this drag Race thing because maybe it's not going to catch.
On season six, is that perfect moment where it's like
clear that like, Okay, the drag Race train is rolling,
we got to get on it. But we've also still
got all these old school queens who like have the
(10:24):
passion and the fire. But then which is not to
discount the younger queens, because you know, Laganda and the
Door are also bringing something to the table that we've
never seen on drag Race before, which is this kind
of like youthful vitality, this new perspective, but they also
have that same hunger. I mean, I think it's just
it's just kind of the best of both of those worlds.
(10:45):
And then we move into you know, it's like, you know,
you get into the later seasons and it's a lot
more of girls knowing what they're getting into, maybe having
a plan of how they're going to be part of
the machine. Season six, I think was before that really
started happening. So it's a lot more kind of like
freshness in a certain way. Right, It's like every previous
season was like season one of American Idol, where it's
(11:07):
Wing Guarini and Kelly going, what is this It's going
to turn into anything? Now? You talk about this transition
between the seasons, and I was there at the Ace
Hotel for the finale taping, and previously the finale tapings
had been in Glendale in a smaller theater. That was
in this historic theater downtown, packed to the rafters, and
(11:30):
it felt different. It felt like, oh gosh, this has
become something else. Can you tell us a little bit
about that. Being on stage in front of the Ace
Theater and seeing the fans in front of you for
the first time after being in the studio. Oh my gosh,
well it was. I mean, that was I mean that
whole time. It's just so nuts because after the show starts,
(11:52):
I mean, you filmed the show. It's terrifying. You don't
know what you did. You're like, I blacked out for
two months? What happened? Was I any good? Did I
get full of myself? You worry about it for six
months and then it goes on TV, and you know
your fears are either like squelched or proven. And I
genuinely had no idea what to expect, and then seeing
(12:12):
it on television, I was so delighted and excited the a.
I was pleased with what I'd done and that the
other people we were responding well to it, and so
there's all this kind of like anxiety that you build up,
and then leading up to that taping at the Ace,
which is the first time that you're with the Drag
(12:34):
Race group on stage in front of a live audience,
and like the love and excitement coming from that crowd
and really sort of any anxiety I had in terms
of like how I was received or what people thought
of me, and especially you know, going home when I did,
which I was really rattled by. I was like, oh, no,
did I deserve it? Did I not see some shortcoming
(12:57):
that I had on stage that I didn't And when
people were like, oh, you were great, like why do
you go home? You know, And that's no shade to
any other queen, but it was it makes you feel
very seen validated. Yeah, And when ru is like you
know she said on stage, she was like, whoa, people
really reacted strongly when you went home and the whole
audience just went nuts, and it was just it's such
(13:19):
a good feeling and it kind of does really help
you be like, Okay, yeah, I was really in my head,
but I don't need to be. That's not an indicator
of you know, it's like a good lesson to try
to hang on too of like, Okay, receive all this
love that's coming to now, and remember that that's there
even when you can't be witnessed to it. You know, well,
you are the pioneer. I mean, you're one of the pioneers.
(13:39):
And that's why it was so important, because you have
to remember at that time, it was still kind of
like people didn't understand, Like I'm talking about outside people
who you know, did not understand the importance of dregs.
So really I look at from season seven on down
as the pioneering years for me, because it's what actually
(14:00):
eated what we see right now. And the question I
have for you is how did you get started in
this art form? How did you get started? Well, you know,
I mean people obviously asked me that question a lot,
and it's really I was one of those young people
who was I was probably like seven the first time
I used a bath towel as a dress, you know,
(14:20):
it was just like my relationship to drag and gender
is very specific in a way that it feels very
tied to who I am, Like I identify as a male.
I don't know, man has always been like a term
that sounds jarring to me, but like I identify as
male outside of drag, but drag is so much a
part of who I am. It's not just a job,
(14:41):
it's not just something I do. Is super tied into me.
And I've always kind of talked about drag is falling
for me, somewhere between an art form and an identity.
And so for me, I've always been a drag queen,
like I am a male person who is a drag
queen in their heart. So when I found drag, which
(15:02):
was really like in the nineties when the Weekstock documentary
came out and I saw the week Stock Documentary for
the first time, and it's you know, Lady Bunny and
Candice Cane and Hotel de Barge, all these incredible queens
performing legendary queens on the stage. And I didn't think, like, oh,
this is the job I want when I grow up.
(15:23):
I thought, oh, there is a container for who I
already am, Like there's a there's a world for people
like me, and now I just have to get to
it right. And I love what you said earlier about you,
the earlier drag queens before a pre drag race, if
you will, who just did it because they loved it.
They didn't do it because they were going to be
(15:44):
famous and everything. And we learned a little bit of
your story on your original season in season six that
your your mother passing away and when you were very
young and going through the depression, and your drag identity
of Ben de la Creme being this terminally delightful positive
person kind of bolstered that depressed kid, and I thought,
(16:07):
to me, is so fascinating. Can you talk a little
bit about that time and how Bendela has helped you? Yeah, well,
you know, it was a real journey in terms of
how my drag persona sort of progressed and developed and
and what that looks like. You know, the character of
Daylight really didn't she didn't really solidify until I lived
in Seattle. I moved there in two thousand and six,
(16:29):
and that's where that really started to crystallize. But the
journey along the way, you know, when I was younger,
you know, those very early days, I was you know,
just like sort of drawn to make up and the feminine,
but I wasn't sure quite what it meant, but I
knew that it made me feel powerful. And I think
you see this in a lot of young queens like
(16:50):
now and pre drag race sort of. But you know,
I think it's a very typical sort of beginning phase
of drag is that when I first started going out
into bars and real iizing that people thought I was
like gorgeous, and I suddenly went from feeling like a
really awkward, like not super well regarded kid, like not
just in the straight world, but also in the gay world,
(17:12):
because I wasn't like a muscle queen, like what like
this is very heavy mask for mask days, right, and
I was not well regarding the world. So when I
entered these spaces for the first time in drag and
I felt how powerful that was, I turned into an
absolute bitch like I was so and I think you
see that all the time, right. You get like sort
of drunk with power, and you're like, oh, people, we'll
(17:34):
get out of my way, people will respect me, people
will let me talk shipped to them who never would
do that otherwise, and you start to like sort of
get really into that. And so my initial character, this
is when I was living in Chicago. My first character,
her name was Tina Angst, and she was a punk,
riant girl and she I like only performed like Latigra
(17:54):
and like the you know, the raincoats and like, you know,
this kind of like angry character and so much of
it I think was me sort of getting out all
this stuff of like this power dynamic in the gay
world of like I don't feel like at home here,
I don't like you know, because I I felt like
(18:15):
I didn't like the way people treated me out of
drag and then I felt really inspired by this queen.
You know, there's a lot of queens inspired me. I've
talked a lot about bar the Jean Merman huge influence
on it. But but at this phase in my life,
there was a queen by the name of Miss Foozy
who was still there in Chicago, and she I never
really saw her perform. She would show up at these
(18:36):
bars and she'd sort of she wore this mumu and
this big sort of like funny like feathery wig up
to the hive thing and just sound like me on
a Saturday night. Yeah, just like some quick makeup. And
she would come into the spaces and she would like
pass out candy and this is like before you know,
you have to be worried that it was like, you know,
how to razor blade at it, and she was like,
(18:58):
we go around and hand out handy to all of
the like, you know, people in the bars, and she'd
say like, hello, Pineapple, how are you pineapple? She called
everybody pineapple, and you would see all these like sort
of bitchy men who are all being kind of mean
to each other suddenly melt and become so sweet. And
I saw that and I was like, all this thing
portraying the way that I'm trying to get out, Like
(19:20):
how I'm trying to change things by yelling through this
character that's not doing anything. This queen is changing everybody
as she moves through the space through this kindness and
this love. And that's when I was like, Oh, that's it.
That's how you change this community. That's how you add
to this community. That's how you bring something valuable. And
that's when I decided, Okay, the character has to lean
(19:43):
to the other direction. For me, it has to be
rather than using it as an outlet for all my
negative feelings, it has to be me challenging myself to
be better than my negative feelings in order to like
create that new environment. When you say negative feelings and
you talk about this character used to do in Chicago.
It reminds me of the character you came up with
the for the girl group challenges all Stars, that that
(20:06):
kind of angsty when you were doing the Spice Girls
and she was like the goth girl who was really
and you ended up winning that challenge and so we
can clearly see that. But what you said about the
positive thing, this is what I noticed is that gays
on our own, Lonnie. You know, we're into like picking
each other up and what do you have? How big
(20:27):
is your body? What are your muscles? Like when a
drag queen comes into the mix, you bring a very
feminine energy into the room that you're talking about, That
feminine positivity that kind of like smooth the rough edges
and helps balance all of us out. Is that what
you were talking about? Yeah, I think so, But I
think it can go either way, right, Like I don't
think like I don't think feminine energy is necessarily negative
(20:51):
or positive and you know, any sort of because we
do see that manifested all the time, right, Like we
see queens who like bring this sort of like BITCHI
canniness us through quote unquote feminine Right, So I just
think drag is so heightened drag. You have this control
because you're curated and because you are larger than life,
right Like, as a drag queen, as a character, I'm
(21:13):
not restricted by the rules of mere mortals because we
have to live our lives, right we have to have
a full range of emotions. As a drag queen, I
only exist for a few hours a day, and therefore
I can be my best self for those few hours, right, So,
and that I can make that be whatever I want
it to be. That could be bitchy and negative and
(21:33):
to not even like qualify it or put like a
rating on it. But like, the energy Bianca is putting
into the world very different from the energy I am
putting into the world. And I love bi and I
was just chatting with her over text just now, like, right,
we're great friends, but we've just made decisions about what
it is that we want to like harness this character for.
And and they have different You know, a lot of
(21:54):
people really draw a lot of power from all of
these different aspects of it. But the one that I've
chosen to peak two is this one very specific thing.
And I don't think it's necessarily linked to femininity or masculinity.
I think it's just linked to like the fact that
when you have a heightened character, you can decide what
you want to like distill everything down to did you
(22:14):
use like between All Stars and when you originally started,
was there a difference and what made you want to
do All Stars at that time? After doing season six?
You know, Season six was very hard, but obviously like
gave me so much and I was so I was
then able to like take this career I built in
(22:36):
Seattle and sort of expand it to a larger platform
and a larger audience. But I was really happy with
what I created after season six, you know, like things
were like working. I was getting to really do the
things I wanted to do, and I sort of felt
like I got what I needed out of it, and
I wasn't necessarily feeling like I needed to go back
(22:59):
and do it again. But I got the call, and
I'd sort of been preparing myself in case I had
gotten that call for like, Okay, how what do I
want to do about this? Because I knew it was
starting to go out there, you know, and I thought,
I think I'm good on that experience. I think I
don't want to go back in and like tempt fate,
I had such a good sort of take away the
(23:20):
last time, like who knows what would happened this time? Right?
And I talked to a lot of my drag mentors,
who are folks who have always looked up to in
in my career, and and one of the things I've
always admired, and it actually almost made me never audition
for drag Race to begin with, was these queens who
had built themselves without Reality TV, like the queens who
(23:40):
had built their careers like pre drag Race, who were
like touring the world doing these solo shows. I was like,
they went through all the steps, and that's why they're
as talented as they are is because they worked that hard, right,
And I was sort of like drag Race, you sort
of like fast forward and you don't suddenly are on
a huge worldwide platform, but you don't have the you
haven't done all the steps, so you don't have everything
back it up, right. So finally I decided I was
(24:02):
going to go ahead and do it, and I'm so
glad I did, because you know, while I had been
able to harness a lot of what I did post
season six and kind of spread the word. I was
still doing a lot more like nightclub appearances and stuff
after season six, whereas after All Stars I had gotten
back to like, Okay, that's not my interest. I love theater.
I love the solo shows, are right, I love the
(24:22):
full cast productions. I get to produce and direct. And
so after All Stars three, I really got to be like,
all right, great, So now this platform has happened, and
now I can put even more into making sure that
more people can have eyes on this specific thing I
love to create. And that's where the Holiday show and
the Holiday special and all that sort of stemmed from. So, well,
(24:44):
we're so glad that you did All Stars because you
gave it so many memorable moments. I'm talking Julie Andrews
in that Diva Challenge, unbelievable doing Julie Andrews going call
me Mother, Paul Lynn so funny and such a genius idea,
that goth girl, And it was just like it was
a shock for you to leave. It was like, and
(25:05):
we're still reverberating from that shot. Well and I had,
you know, I mean, it was like All Stars was
hard in different ways than Season six, but it was
also so fun. I mean to go in and to
just kind of know what to even expect, like emotionally
in a space like that, you know, I mean one
of the craziest things about going on drag race is
having to like navigate this new situation you're in and like,
(25:27):
but you know, you go back on and you're like, sorry,
you can throw some surprises at me, but I basically
know how this is going to feel, and so I
was actually surprised by how comfortable I was surprised by
my own performance, quite frankly, Like I didn't expect to
go and I was like, I might go home first.
I don't know. That's the other thing, right, Like we
go in All Stars, You're like, I did so well
(25:48):
the first time even though I didn't like win, I
also didn't go home first, and I was memorable, right,
Like I could go you know, so you never know.
But I think it was sort of specifically because I
went in like a knowing more be just having more
experience and being more confident as a performer, but also
with a little bit more of a I could go
home at any second, and my job here is not
(26:09):
to win, it's to make a great impression, right because
I realized that sounds like you weren't in your own way,
like that is the best. Like here in l A
during pilot season, if you go in like, oh I
gotta get this or this matter is more than anything,
You're gonna suck. I tell us to act all the time,
and he, you know, he doesn't listen. I don't think
(26:30):
I never learned anything. So now Lottie and I are
a team where this girlfriends team and you and Jinks
are the dynamic duo of the drag world. You guys
hitting the road if you see the special, you're like
an old vaudeville team, like you've been working together through
several different lifetimes. But as you know, we don't have
that much time left. But could you tell us a
(26:52):
little bit about your relationship with Jinks, how it started
and on the road with you guys performing and writing
together this wonderful show. Yeah, well, Jins and I met
when I was looking in Seattle, like over a decade
ago before either of us was on drag Race, and
so we have like a long history together. You know,
it's a very rare and special connection. In general, to
(27:13):
be a a drag queen, be a drag queen, who
has this kind of specific kind of comedic, live singing,
vaudevillian theatrical sensibility that we both have. So when we
found each other, we were very drawn immediately, right and
we also like spent our sort of some of our
formative years as performers and also as humans together. You know,
like we've been through a lot, and then we've also
(27:34):
been through I mean, the idea that you would know
somebody being a sort of a local performer than a
first time TV personality then a worldwide drag personality. Right, Like,
like we've gone through all those levels together and that's
a very specific and weird journey, and now it's work.
(27:55):
We talked about this a lot. You know, our friendship
is really successful because we put the work into our
friend ship and there's a lot that happens in that dynamic.
And it's like you can pretend that things like jealousy
and power dynamics and like who's getting what attention don't exist,
but that's you're not going to get very far as
friends if you pretend those things don't exist. They exist,
and we talk about them and we are very like
(28:16):
loving with each other and like okay, like right now,
I'm a little bit more in the spotlight right now.
You're a little bit more in the spotlight. But we're
a team and we respect each other and we pull
each other up and we're always like have each other's backs.
And that's been something that we've spent a long time
cultivating and I think that's just true in any relationship, friendship,
romantic business. So I'm very proud of what we've done
(28:36):
with that. And as a result, we have this very
specific artistic sensibility that is very weird and kind of
balls to the wall and we just go for it
and we make stuff that's as weird as we want
it to be, and it turns out people like it.
And I think a huge thing that people respond to
is the genuineness of our connection because we're very i
think vulnerable in some ways about it. And the writing
(28:59):
on that shiptel to Lonnie, you're both so talented, and
they can check it out on Hulu Holidays. Yeah, they're
like the You're like the sweet and Sour team. It's
kind of like jenk says, this kind of you know,
jin Soake sees everything with a gimlet eye, and you're
so positive and you also did watch a show because
there's an actor on the show, Lonnie, who plays Jesus.
(29:21):
Really he is stunning. And not only is he stunning,
he's actually really good not to lust and after on
the show, but because he's the moral center of the show,
he gives a lesson at the very end of the
show friendship and everything. It's we are enjoying this conversation
with you. But you know, Alec always says that drag
(29:44):
is like a superpower and a superhero identity, So we
always ask when we interview people, what is your drag superpower? Oh,
not like if I could milt people's bones with my
eyes or something, but like, what is my actual drag
superpower that I currently I could change the molecular structure
(30:05):
of a human being to the nuclear fission coming out
of my eyes. I think my drag superpower is. I
think it's making people feel seen. I really try hard
to everything I put on stage to have it have
something behind it that is like acknowledging a common difficult
(30:25):
thing that we all go through. Right Like with the
Holiday show, it's all about the fact that the holidays
are a difficult time, especially for people in the queer community.
Some of us can feel really alienated from the idea
of family, from the idea of this sort of like
warm and cozy, heteronormative imagery that maybe we don't feel
like we're invited into, right, And so the show is
about acknowledging that and reclaiming it. And it's like, I
want people to feel seen, And every show that I
(30:47):
make and everything I do on stage is something where
I'm like, I want you to know that an experience
you're having is an experience that everybody else in this
room is sharing with you. And when I talk to
people one on one in a meet and greet or
anything like that, I want them to know that whatever
they want to share with me, I can hear and
I can understand. And I think that's the biggest thing
when I talk about outside of DRAG, when I use
(31:08):
the platform to speak about mental differences in terms of
dealing with depression, bipolar, any of those things. You know,
these are common, We can talk about them, we can
share this experience. You're not alone, And to me, that's
the most powerful thing I can do with my DRAG.
That's wonderful. And you know, we get that I met
you in Provincetown years and years ago. I was there
(31:28):
and my son he couldn't have been more than six
seven years old, and you were. It was right before
your season, and you were so sweet, your whole vibe.
I mean, you kind of got down like the characters
do at Disneyland, so you can be the size of
the kids and you look them in the eye. They
felt seen, they were delighted. And what I love about
you is everything is so well thought out. You have
(31:51):
a real intention with everything. As we wrap up, where
can people find you on your socials and tell us
about your website? Where can we get that website? Yeah,
I'll make it real easy for you. Bend La Creme
across platforms B and D, E L A c R
E M E on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. I don't know
if you use Facebook anymore anybody, But and then my
(32:11):
website is just yeah, my Space friends, and then Bend
la Creme dot com is my website and you can
always find what I'm up to, my touring dates, where
you'll see me next on any of those platforms. And
my last question is have you ever considered selling white
Out as merchandise? Oh my god, I thought you know
what it turned out to be a marketing nightmare. We
(32:35):
really try to figure it out. It was like illegal,
it was too many hoops. You can't just resell lipsticks
with your white out say that I thought of too late.
Tricky and I were talking about it. Trixie and I
were talking about doing the lipsticks anyway. Whatever. There's what
I will tell you. There's a new plush coming out
(32:56):
that is a reference to the specific moment that you're
talking about. Limited edition, So keep your eyes want one.
I want one, all right, thank you so much, and
we we can't wait to see you live you well, Lonnie.
(33:18):
That was Benda Lacre. Oh my goodness, awesome, awesome. You know,
youth are a pretty good interviewer, Alec. You know what
I like about you when you when you ask your questions,
you are very colorful, like you'll give like a scene.
That's what I'm trying to get better at an interviewing.
This is being totally transparent, squirldfriends. It's like he's able
(33:39):
to like he'll go yes. You remember when we went
to Beverly Hills and at one time at Beverly Hills
they used to have green awning and this awning was
there and then he's able to know. Really, go back
and listen to some of our podcasts and you can
see the genius of how Alec can put in a
story and weave it into the question it whereas I
(34:01):
just go how you feeling? Oh, Lonnie just gave me
some flowers. That was really lovely Lonnie. But but see
the thing about you is your yourself right away, and
that puts everybody at ease. Like how you said about
Dolly Parton is like you could have nerves, but if
you're talking to somebody who's themselves and treating you just
like another person, that's when you bring to the conversing.
(34:23):
We all we all have our purpose. But how did
you like I've been? I just I just think they're
so talented and there's so much thought behind what they do.
When Dan said that I wanted to use the art
of drag to make people feel good, you know where
she went from being very bitchy and being kind of
very god character to want to be a queen. That
(34:46):
really kind of brought joy into the room. I absolutely
love that, And also I love that Ben so completely
themselves and talks about personal stuff like depression and dealing
with that and everything so the genuineness I always well
the reason why I think it's important for us to Yeah,
we want to talk to the queens, but it's very
(35:06):
important because you always get something a little bit extra,
and you also get the thought process and the meaning.
It's like everybody thinks people just get on drag Race
and that's what they do. We're understanding the process of
why a lot of people don't know. Sometimes people audition three,
four or five times just to get on, and it's like,
(35:26):
what would make you, you know, want to keep getting
on the show and you keep getting rejected things like that.
These are the behind the scene tidbits that you don't get.
So that's why, you know, we just make these interviews.
We do it and it's just wonderful that people come
on because I learned something. I get in everything, something
(35:48):
every single time. And don't forget when you talk about
your queens on social media, don't forget to tip them
show them love, Lonnie. Where can people show you love
on the on the on the instants and the instant nets,
on the on the my space nets, on the instantet.
My Space is gonna make a comeback. I don't care
what nobody said don't sleep on my space. You can
(36:11):
find me on Instagram at comic Lonnie Love on Twitter
at Lonnie Love. You know, and if you've listened to me,
squirrel Friends have decided to follow me through school friends.
Thank you. You can find me at Instagram at alec Mapa.
You gotta get a TikTok too, that's what you gotta
start now. I'm too old. But have you been on
(36:32):
high school? You all high school kids doing? No, it's
not it's all kind of ages. It's all kind of
Once you do one to three, you'll be like, oh,
all right, I don't want more time sun, but we'll
never say never. You can listen to Squirrel Friends, the
official RuPaul's Drag Race podcast on the I Heart Radio
app or wherever you get your podcasts, and if you
(36:56):
tolerated and like this episode, make sure to rate and
review us five stars. Please tell a frim yes. Then
you can catch up on past episodes of RuPaul's Drag
Race and All Stars on Paramount Plus. See you soon,
See you soon,
Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome back to another episode of
The Squirrel Friends, the Official RuPaul's Draguas Podcast. I'm Alec
Mapa and my only job is to introduce the Queen
of all Things, the Queen of show Business, America's sister,
Lottie LoVa. Hello, how done. I've been good. I've been
working and I've been stalking you on Instagram. When I
(00:26):
say that you're the Queen of show Business, you've literally
met everybody. You have a video on your Instagram of
you interviewing Dolly Parton. Yes, that blew my mind. How
long ago was that? This was maybe about five years
ago when I interviewed Dolly, and um I had the opportunity.
It was when we were still doing The Real and
my producer called me on a Friday and said, you
(00:49):
can interview Dolly Parton tomorrow, but it's a Saturday. And
I was like, what does that matter? It's Dolly Parton.
So she let me go and interview Dolly. And when
I say she was she was having a performance. It
was in Santa Barbara at a theater out there, and
I was the only interview and they had it set
(01:09):
up with her clothes, they had all of her guitars,
they had all of her wigs as like a backdrop.
It was awesome and I sat down and had the
best twenty minutes of my life with her. And I remember,
you know, because whenever I interviewed someone, I always tried
to put in an effort. Uh. I always try to
(01:34):
put in a question that is about my culture. And
one of the things that I loved about Dolly Partners.
A lot of people know that she wrote I Will
Always Love You, which was famously covered by Whitney Houston.
So the question that I asked her, I said, how
did you feel about a paraphrase? Because it's so long ago,
how did you feel about Whitney remaking your song? And
(01:56):
it actually, you know, it became this great hit and
she's it, honey. I don't care as long as I
get the money. There's a famous story about like Elvis
Presley wanted to sing that song after you heard it,
but he wanted to sing it and then get the
writing credit, because a lot of a lot of pop
(02:17):
stars do that. If like I'm going to do your song,
then part of the thing is I'm bringing it to
this bigger audience and I want the writing credit. For it.
I want the rights to it. And Dolly said, well
you can sing it, but no, exactly fine. Yeah, And
were you nervous? Were you excited? I would be nervous
just because she's like one of the most talented people
you know on the planet. You have nerves for the
(02:38):
first two minutes, and then once she starts talking to you,
it's like you love people. That's not judgment, you know.
I know this lady don't know me, but she she
sees me as an interviewer, and she saw me as
a woman, and it was just great. And so that
as an interviewer, it helps you to calm down and
get your focus correct and straight, you know I mean,
(03:00):
And she was just lovely. She talked about her husband.
Um I asked her about hip hop because I said,
you've been so kind of what you think about, you know,
maybe doing a duet with Snoop Dogg. And she said, well,
you know, I'm not into that, but my husband listens
to Snoop Dogg and and and started reciting. It was
just you can go on YouTube and check out that
Dolly Party interview. But I just love this and we
(03:22):
have a great interview today that I'm very excited about.
Speaking of talent, speaking of talented queens, we have Ben
de la Creme. Ben de la Creme, who killed it
on All Stars and killed it on season six, is
with us today. And she's a Seattle queen. She is
a theater queen. She's written so many shows post Drag Race,
(03:45):
She's done a lot of live performances post Drag Race,
and we can't wait to talk to her today. Cannot wait.
So you know what, Squirrel friends, just go, get you
some water, get you some tea, get your dope beverage
if you're over eighteen, over twenty one, and come. We'll
be right back. Well, be right back, Okay, squirrel Friends,
(04:13):
our guest today. You know from RuPaul's Drag Race season six,
where she was named Miss Congeniality and All Stars three
Hide the White Out famously said herself home. She is
terminally delightful and we are terminally delighted that she is here. Please,
welcome to the program. Bendela Graham, who I thank you
(04:37):
for having me? Well, First, how are you how you been?
I'm doing well. I'm on the road right now on tour,
and you know, it's great to be great to be
hitting the boards once again. How many stops have you
made so far? Oh god, I don't know. I just
wake up and put on makeup and walk on stage.
I don't know. We're about halfway through it, maybe a
(04:59):
little more than halfway through the tour, and I think
it's thirty three shows total, so I don't know. Half
of Third Degree is sixteen and a half. I was
told there wasn't gonna be any math on this test.
Lonnie Bendla is on the road with their holiday show
with Jinks. Wonderful it is, and and folks, if you've
(05:22):
never seen, um the Christmas Special, uh, it's currently on Hulu,
the Jinks and Della Holiday Special. It is so great.
I watched it like NonStop for the past couple of years.
Thank you. Yeah, no, I'm I'm so proud of that.
You know, it's really like it was a crazy thing
we had to figure out how to do in the
pandemic when we couldn't be on the road with this.
(05:44):
But um, but it's so good to be you know.
Last year was our first year back with the live
Holiday show and we got cut short about two thirds
of the way through with COVID, which was a bumber
I'm knocking on wood right now. That's not a sound error.
And I um, but you know, things are going so
well this year. And every year, you know, we write
(06:05):
a new show for the stage show, so it was
like a bummer not to get to get all that
material to the West Coast last year. So um, but
this year I think is the best show we've ever written.
So I'm really excited. Can't wait. Okay, um, you know
we love you from Drag Race, And let's talk about
(06:26):
your experience on season six. How was that? Um, you
know it was. I don't know. It was good. It
was so long ago now, you know, it's like asking
somebody about their childhood and they're like, oh, it was wonderful.
It was ideal, Like oh right, no, I repressed all
these other memories. Um, yeah, no, Season six was I
don't know it was. I was. I didn't know what
(06:47):
I was going into. You know, so many of my
you know, my more recent experience obviously was on All Stars,
when I knew exactly what to expect, I knew exactly
what I was going into. Kind of deal with season
six was when you go on that show for the
first time. And I think especially in those early single
digit seasons. Like now people kind of know more what
they're getting into, but we really didn't, like, you know,
(07:10):
fortunately I had Jins on season five. She sort of
gave me a little bit of a primer of what
it would be like. But it was just so weird.
It was unlike anything I'd ever done. And uh, you know,
suddenly going from doing local stuff in Seattle to being
in a TV studio for the first time and having
all these people, you know, dreg queens were like in
charge of everything, like we run every aspect of our
(07:33):
business and our lives, and then you go into this
scenario where you are not in charge of anything, and
it's just crazy. But there were all these other super
talented queens, and I was really like in awe of
everyone and very nervous. I mean, I was nervous the
whole time I was on season six. It was like,
you know, it's just it's a lot of unknowns. You're right,
(07:54):
it does seem like a long time ago, and there's
so many legendary queens that came out of that season
six season. We're talking Bianca Adore, Courtney Dairy, and you
Jocelyn Fox, Lagana Na everybody's seeing those people for the
first time. So to walk into an arena where it's
(08:15):
like all killer, no filler, Yeah, it sounds like you
had to surrender a lot of control. Oh absolutely, yeah,
and it's you know, and that's all you can do anyways,
you know, it's just about getting in there and rolling
with whatever happens. But it definitely, I mean, needing that
cast was very you know, I wasn't even necessarily familiar
with all of the queen's beforehand, but just walk into
(08:36):
this wall of talent and you can just kind of
feel it, you know, and it was, you know, looking
back at it, I know I'm especially biased, but I
think it is. It's just objectively one of just the
craziest pasts in terms of it's my favorite season. Don't
tell anybody. I mean, I have to say I love
season four. I love season four, and I love season five.
(08:58):
But there is something really specific about season six cast.
What made it specific? What made that cast just like
a crazy cast for you? Well, I think it's like
at that point, you know, I don't know this is theories,
but at that point, I think drag Race had enough
of its legs that people were really you know, right, like,
now we're into it where we've got all these queens
(09:19):
who are on drag Race because they gotten a drag
because of drag Race. Season six still that era before
that happened, right, Like, like Liganda and a Door are
probably two of the first queens to ever have been
on drag Race that were like young and coming up
while drag Race was airing. Everyone on season's prior with
somebody who started drag before drag Race, right, And so
(09:41):
it's like a thing where there's a certain different type
of passion. I think that comes from a queen pre
drag Race, where they there was no chance of fame
or fortune before drag Race became popular. You became a directly,
you became a drag queen in spite of the fact
that you would never be famous. You just had to
love it that much, you know. So there's a specific
quality you see, I think to the queens on season
(10:02):
five and earlier, and then most of us on season
six as well. And at that point it's like queens
like Bianca who are maybe like, I don't know about
this drag Race thing because maybe it's not going to catch.
On season six, is that perfect moment where it's like
clear that like, Okay, the drag Race train is rolling,
we got to get on it. But we've also still
got all these old school queens who like have the
(10:24):
passion and the fire. But then which is not to
discount the younger queens, because you know, Laganda and the
Door are also bringing something to the table that we've
never seen on drag Race before, which is this kind
of like youthful vitality, this new perspective, but they also
have that same hunger. I mean, I think it's just
it's just kind of the best of both of those worlds.
(10:45):
And then we move into you know, it's like, you know,
you get into the later seasons and it's a lot
more of girls knowing what they're getting into, maybe having
a plan of how they're going to be part of
the machine. Season six, I think was before that really
started happening. So it's a lot more kind of like
freshness in a certain way. Right, It's like every previous
season was like season one of American Idol, where it's
(11:07):
Wing Guarini and Kelly going, what is this It's going
to turn into anything? Now? You talk about this transition
between the seasons, and I was there at the Ace
Hotel for the finale taping, and previously the finale tapings
had been in Glendale in a smaller theater. That was
in this historic theater downtown, packed to the rafters, and
(11:30):
it felt different. It felt like, oh gosh, this has
become something else. Can you tell us a little bit
about that. Being on stage in front of the Ace
Theater and seeing the fans in front of you for
the first time after being in the studio. Oh my gosh,
well it was. I mean, that was I mean that
whole time. It's just so nuts because after the show starts,
(11:52):
I mean, you filmed the show. It's terrifying. You don't
know what you did. You're like, I blacked out for
two months? What happened? Was I any good? Did I
get full of myself? You worry about it for six
months and then it goes on TV, and you know
your fears are either like squelched or proven. And I
genuinely had no idea what to expect, and then seeing
(12:12):
it on television, I was so delighted and excited the a.
I was pleased with what I'd done and that the
other people we were responding well to it, and so
there's all this kind of like anxiety that you build up,
and then leading up to that taping at the Ace,
which is the first time that you're with the Drag
(12:34):
Race group on stage in front of a live audience,
and like the love and excitement coming from that crowd
and really sort of any anxiety I had in terms
of like how I was received or what people thought
of me, and especially you know, going home when I did,
which I was really rattled by. I was like, oh, no,
did I deserve it? Did I not see some shortcoming
(12:57):
that I had on stage that I didn't And when
people were like, oh, you were great, like why do
you go home? You know, And that's no shade to
any other queen, but it was it makes you feel
very seen validated. Yeah, And when ru is like you
know she said on stage, she was like, whoa, people
really reacted strongly when you went home and the whole
audience just went nuts, and it was just it's such
(13:19):
a good feeling and it kind of does really help
you be like, Okay, yeah, I was really in my head,
but I don't need to be. That's not an indicator
of you know, it's like a good lesson to try
to hang on too of like, Okay, receive all this
love that's coming to now, and remember that that's there
even when you can't be witnessed to it. You know, well,
you are the pioneer. I mean, you're one of the pioneers.
(13:39):
And that's why it was so important, because you have
to remember at that time, it was still kind of
like people didn't understand, Like I'm talking about outside people
who you know, did not understand the importance of dregs.
So really I look at from season seven on down
as the pioneering years for me, because it's what actually
(14:00):
eated what we see right now. And the question I
have for you is how did you get started in
this art form? How did you get started? Well, you know,
I mean people obviously asked me that question a lot,
and it's really I was one of those young people
who was I was probably like seven the first time
I used a bath towel as a dress, you know,
(14:20):
it was just like my relationship to drag and gender
is very specific in a way that it feels very
tied to who I am, Like I identify as a male.
I don't know, man has always been like a term
that sounds jarring to me, but like I identify as
male outside of drag, but drag is so much a
part of who I am. It's not just a job,
(14:41):
it's not just something I do. Is super tied into me.
And I've always kind of talked about drag is falling
for me, somewhere between an art form and an identity.
And so for me, I've always been a drag queen,
like I am a male person who is a drag
queen in their heart. So when I found drag, which
(15:02):
was really like in the nineties when the Weekstock documentary
came out and I saw the week Stock Documentary for
the first time, and it's you know, Lady Bunny and
Candice Cane and Hotel de Barge, all these incredible queens
performing legendary queens on the stage. And I didn't think, like, oh,
this is the job I want when I grow up.
(15:23):
I thought, oh, there is a container for who I
already am, Like there's a there's a world for people
like me, and now I just have to get to
it right. And I love what you said earlier about you,
the earlier drag queens before a pre drag race, if
you will, who just did it because they loved it.
They didn't do it because they were going to be
(15:44):
famous and everything. And we learned a little bit of
your story on your original season in season six that
your your mother passing away and when you were very
young and going through the depression, and your drag identity
of Ben de la Creme being this terminally delightful positive
person kind of bolstered that depressed kid, and I thought,
(16:07):
to me, is so fascinating. Can you talk a little
bit about that time and how Bendela has helped you? Yeah, well,
you know, it was a real journey in terms of
how my drag persona sort of progressed and developed and
and what that looks like. You know, the character of
Daylight really didn't she didn't really solidify until I lived
in Seattle. I moved there in two thousand and six,
(16:29):
and that's where that really started to crystallize. But the
journey along the way, you know, when I was younger,
you know, those very early days, I was you know,
just like sort of drawn to make up and the feminine,
but I wasn't sure quite what it meant, but I
knew that it made me feel powerful. And I think
you see this in a lot of young queens like
(16:50):
now and pre drag race sort of. But you know,
I think it's a very typical sort of beginning phase
of drag is that when I first started going out
into bars and real iizing that people thought I was
like gorgeous, and I suddenly went from feeling like a
really awkward, like not super well regarded kid, like not
just in the straight world, but also in the gay world,
(17:12):
because I wasn't like a muscle queen, like what like
this is very heavy mask for mask days, right, and
I was not well regarding the world. So when I
entered these spaces for the first time in drag and
I felt how powerful that was, I turned into an
absolute bitch like I was so and I think you
see that all the time, right. You get like sort
of drunk with power, and you're like, oh, people, we'll
(17:34):
get out of my way, people will respect me, people
will let me talk shipped to them who never would
do that otherwise, and you start to like sort of
get really into that. And so my initial character, this
is when I was living in Chicago. My first character,
her name was Tina Angst, and she was a punk,
riant girl and she I like only performed like Latigra
(17:54):
and like the you know, the raincoats and like, you know,
this kind of like angry character and so much of
it I think was me sort of getting out all
this stuff of like this power dynamic in the gay
world of like I don't feel like at home here,
I don't like you know, because I I felt like
(18:15):
I didn't like the way people treated me out of
drag and then I felt really inspired by this queen.
You know, there's a lot of queens inspired me. I've
talked a lot about bar the Jean Merman huge influence
on it. But but at this phase in my life,
there was a queen by the name of Miss Foozy
who was still there in Chicago, and she I never
really saw her perform. She would show up at these
(18:36):
bars and she'd sort of she wore this mumu and
this big sort of like funny like feathery wig up
to the hive thing and just sound like me on
a Saturday night. Yeah, just like some quick makeup. And
she would come into the spaces and she would like
pass out candy and this is like before you know,
you have to be worried that it was like, you know,
how to razor blade at it, and she was like,
(18:58):
we go around and hand out handy to all of
the like, you know, people in the bars, and she'd
say like, hello, Pineapple, how are you pineapple? She called
everybody pineapple, and you would see all these like sort
of bitchy men who are all being kind of mean
to each other suddenly melt and become so sweet. And
I saw that and I was like, all this thing
portraying the way that I'm trying to get out, Like
(19:20):
how I'm trying to change things by yelling through this
character that's not doing anything. This queen is changing everybody
as she moves through the space through this kindness and
this love. And that's when I was like, Oh, that's it.
That's how you change this community. That's how you add
to this community. That's how you bring something valuable. And
that's when I decided, Okay, the character has to lean
(19:43):
to the other direction. For me, it has to be
rather than using it as an outlet for all my
negative feelings, it has to be me challenging myself to
be better than my negative feelings in order to like
create that new environment. When you say negative feelings and
you talk about this character used to do in Chicago.
It reminds me of the character you came up with
the for the girl group challenges all Stars, that that
(20:06):
kind of angsty when you were doing the Spice Girls
and she was like the goth girl who was really
and you ended up winning that challenge and so we
can clearly see that. But what you said about the
positive thing, this is what I noticed is that gays
on our own, Lonnie. You know, we're into like picking
each other up and what do you have? How big
(20:27):
is your body? What are your muscles? Like when a
drag queen comes into the mix, you bring a very
feminine energy into the room that you're talking about, That
feminine positivity that kind of like smooth the rough edges
and helps balance all of us out. Is that what
you were talking about? Yeah, I think so, But I
think it can go either way, right, Like I don't
think like I don't think feminine energy is necessarily negative
(20:51):
or positive and you know, any sort of because we
do see that manifested all the time, right, Like we
see queens who like bring this sort of like BITCHI
canniness us through quote unquote feminine Right, So I just
think drag is so heightened drag. You have this control
because you're curated and because you are larger than life,
right Like, as a drag queen, as a character, I'm
(21:13):
not restricted by the rules of mere mortals because we
have to live our lives, right we have to have
a full range of emotions. As a drag queen, I
only exist for a few hours a day, and therefore
I can be my best self for those few hours, right, So,
and that I can make that be whatever I want
it to be. That could be bitchy and negative and
(21:33):
to not even like qualify it or put like a
rating on it. But like, the energy Bianca is putting
into the world very different from the energy I am
putting into the world. And I love bi and I
was just chatting with her over text just now, like, right,
we're great friends, but we've just made decisions about what
it is that we want to like harness this character for.
And and they have different You know, a lot of
(21:54):
people really draw a lot of power from all of
these different aspects of it. But the one that I've
chosen to peak two is this one very specific thing.
And I don't think it's necessarily linked to femininity or masculinity.
I think it's just linked to like the fact that
when you have a heightened character, you can decide what
you want to like distill everything down to did you
(22:14):
use like between All Stars and when you originally started,
was there a difference and what made you want to
do All Stars at that time? After doing season six?
You know, Season six was very hard, but obviously like
gave me so much and I was so I was
then able to like take this career I built in
(22:36):
Seattle and sort of expand it to a larger platform
and a larger audience. But I was really happy with
what I created after season six, you know, like things
were like working. I was getting to really do the
things I wanted to do, and I sort of felt
like I got what I needed out of it, and
I wasn't necessarily feeling like I needed to go back
(22:59):
and do it again. But I got the call, and
I'd sort of been preparing myself in case I had
gotten that call for like, Okay, how what do I
want to do about this? Because I knew it was
starting to go out there, you know, and I thought,
I think I'm good on that experience. I think I
don't want to go back in and like tempt fate,
I had such a good sort of take away the
(23:20):
last time, like who knows what would happened this time? Right?
And I talked to a lot of my drag mentors,
who are folks who have always looked up to in
in my career, and and one of the things I've
always admired, and it actually almost made me never audition
for drag Race to begin with, was these queens who
had built themselves without Reality TV, like the queens who
(23:40):
had built their careers like pre drag Race, who were
like touring the world doing these solo shows. I was like,
they went through all the steps, and that's why they're
as talented as they are is because they worked that hard, right,
And I was sort of like drag Race, you sort
of like fast forward and you don't suddenly are on
a huge worldwide platform, but you don't have the you
haven't done all the steps, so you don't have everything
back it up, right. So finally I decided I was
(24:02):
going to go ahead and do it, and I'm so
glad I did, because you know, while I had been
able to harness a lot of what I did post
season six and kind of spread the word. I was
still doing a lot more like nightclub appearances and stuff
after season six, whereas after All Stars I had gotten
back to like, Okay, that's not my interest. I love theater.
I love the solo shows, are right, I love the
(24:22):
full cast productions. I get to produce and direct. And
so after All Stars three, I really got to be like,
all right, great, So now this platform has happened, and
now I can put even more into making sure that
more people can have eyes on this specific thing I
love to create. And that's where the Holiday show and
the Holiday special and all that sort of stemmed from. So, well,
(24:44):
we're so glad that you did All Stars because you
gave it so many memorable moments. I'm talking Julie Andrews
in that Diva Challenge, unbelievable doing Julie Andrews going call
me Mother, Paul Lynn so funny and such a genius idea,
that goth girl, And it was just like it was
a shock for you to leave. It was like, and
(25:05):
we're still reverberating from that shot. Well and I had,
you know, I mean, it was like All Stars was
hard in different ways than Season six, but it was
also so fun. I mean to go in and to
just kind of know what to even expect, like emotionally
in a space like that, you know, I mean one
of the craziest things about going on drag race is
having to like navigate this new situation you're in and like,
(25:27):
but you know, you go back on and you're like, sorry,
you can throw some surprises at me, but I basically
know how this is going to feel, and so I
was actually surprised by how comfortable I was surprised by
my own performance, quite frankly, Like I didn't expect to
go and I was like, I might go home first.
I don't know. That's the other thing, right, Like we
go in All Stars, You're like, I did so well
(25:48):
the first time even though I didn't like win, I
also didn't go home first, and I was memorable, right,
Like I could go you know, so you never know.
But I think it was sort of specifically because I
went in like a knowing more be just having more
experience and being more confident as a performer, but also
with a little bit more of a I could go
home at any second, and my job here is not
(26:09):
to win, it's to make a great impression, right because
I realized that sounds like you weren't in your own way,
like that is the best. Like here in l A
during pilot season, if you go in like, oh I
gotta get this or this matter is more than anything,
You're gonna suck. I tell us to act all the time,
and he, you know, he doesn't listen. I don't think
(26:30):
I never learned anything. So now Lottie and I are
a team where this girlfriends team and you and Jinks
are the dynamic duo of the drag world. You guys
hitting the road if you see the special, you're like
an old vaudeville team, like you've been working together through
several different lifetimes. But as you know, we don't have
that much time left. But could you tell us a
(26:52):
little bit about your relationship with Jinks, how it started
and on the road with you guys performing and writing
together this wonderful show. Yeah, well, Jins and I met
when I was looking in Seattle, like over a decade
ago before either of us was on drag Race, and
so we have like a long history together. You know,
it's a very rare and special connection. In general, to
(27:13):
be a a drag queen, be a drag queen, who
has this kind of specific kind of comedic, live singing,
vaudevillian theatrical sensibility that we both have. So when we
found each other, we were very drawn immediately, right and
we also like spent our sort of some of our
formative years as performers and also as humans together. You know,
like we've been through a lot, and then we've also
(27:34):
been through I mean, the idea that you would know
somebody being a sort of a local performer than a
first time TV personality then a worldwide drag personality. Right, Like,
like we've gone through all those levels together and that's
a very specific and weird journey, and now it's work.
(27:55):
We talked about this a lot. You know, our friendship
is really successful because we put the work into our
friend ship and there's a lot that happens in that dynamic.
And it's like you can pretend that things like jealousy
and power dynamics and like who's getting what attention don't exist,
but that's you're not going to get very far as
friends if you pretend those things don't exist. They exist,
and we talk about them and we are very like
(28:16):
loving with each other and like okay, like right now,
I'm a little bit more in the spotlight right now.
You're a little bit more in the spotlight. But we're
a team and we respect each other and we pull
each other up and we're always like have each other's backs.
And that's been something that we've spent a long time
cultivating and I think that's just true in any relationship, friendship,
romantic business. So I'm very proud of what we've done
(28:36):
with that. And as a result, we have this very
specific artistic sensibility that is very weird and kind of
balls to the wall and we just go for it
and we make stuff that's as weird as we want
it to be, and it turns out people like it.
And I think a huge thing that people respond to
is the genuineness of our connection because we're very i
think vulnerable in some ways about it. And the writing
(28:59):
on that shiptel to Lonnie, you're both so talented, and
they can check it out on Hulu Holidays. Yeah, they're
like the You're like the sweet and Sour team. It's
kind of like jenk says, this kind of you know,
jin Soake sees everything with a gimlet eye, and you're
so positive and you also did watch a show because
there's an actor on the show, Lonnie, who plays Jesus.
(29:21):
Really he is stunning. And not only is he stunning,
he's actually really good not to lust and after on
the show, but because he's the moral center of the show,
he gives a lesson at the very end of the
show friendship and everything. It's we are enjoying this conversation
with you. But you know, Alec always says that drag
(29:44):
is like a superpower and a superhero identity, So we
always ask when we interview people, what is your drag superpower? Oh,
not like if I could milt people's bones with my
eyes or something, but like, what is my actual drag
superpower that I currently I could change the molecular structure
(30:05):
of a human being to the nuclear fission coming out
of my eyes. I think my drag superpower is. I
think it's making people feel seen. I really try hard
to everything I put on stage to have it have
something behind it that is like acknowledging a common difficult
(30:25):
thing that we all go through. Right Like with the
Holiday show, it's all about the fact that the holidays
are a difficult time, especially for people in the queer community.
Some of us can feel really alienated from the idea
of family, from the idea of this sort of like
warm and cozy, heteronormative imagery that maybe we don't feel
like we're invited into, right, And so the show is
about acknowledging that and reclaiming it. And it's like, I
want people to feel seen, And every show that I
(30:47):
make and everything I do on stage is something where
I'm like, I want you to know that an experience
you're having is an experience that everybody else in this
room is sharing with you. And when I talk to
people one on one in a meet and greet or
anything like that, I want them to know that whatever
they want to share with me, I can hear and
I can understand. And I think that's the biggest thing
when I talk about outside of DRAG, when I use
(31:08):
the platform to speak about mental differences in terms of
dealing with depression, bipolar, any of those things. You know,
these are common, We can talk about them, we can
share this experience. You're not alone, And to me, that's
the most powerful thing I can do with my DRAG.
That's wonderful. And you know, we get that I met
you in Provincetown years and years ago. I was there
(31:28):
and my son he couldn't have been more than six
seven years old, and you were. It was right before
your season, and you were so sweet, your whole vibe.
I mean, you kind of got down like the characters
do at Disneyland, so you can be the size of
the kids and you look them in the eye. They
felt seen, they were delighted. And what I love about
you is everything is so well thought out. You have
(31:51):
a real intention with everything. As we wrap up, where
can people find you on your socials and tell us
about your website? Where can we get that website? Yeah,
I'll make it real easy for you. Bend La Creme
across platforms B and D, E L A c R
E M E on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. I don't know
if you use Facebook anymore anybody, But and then my
(32:11):
website is just yeah, my Space friends, and then Bend
la Creme dot com is my website and you can
always find what I'm up to, my touring dates, where
you'll see me next on any of those platforms. And
my last question is have you ever considered selling white
Out as merchandise? Oh my god, I thought you know
what it turned out to be a marketing nightmare. We
(32:35):
really try to figure it out. It was like illegal,
it was too many hoops. You can't just resell lipsticks
with your white out say that I thought of too late.
Tricky and I were talking about it. Trixie and I
were talking about doing the lipsticks anyway. Whatever. There's what
I will tell you. There's a new plush coming out
(32:56):
that is a reference to the specific moment that you're
talking about. Limited edition, So keep your eyes want one.
I want one, all right, thank you so much, and
we we can't wait to see you live you well, Lonnie.
(33:18):
That was Benda Lacre. Oh my goodness, awesome, awesome. You know,
youth are a pretty good interviewer, Alec. You know what
I like about you when you when you ask your questions,
you are very colorful, like you'll give like a scene.
That's what I'm trying to get better at an interviewing.
This is being totally transparent, squirldfriends. It's like he's able
(33:39):
to like he'll go yes. You remember when we went
to Beverly Hills and at one time at Beverly Hills
they used to have green awning and this awning was
there and then he's able to know. Really, go back
and listen to some of our podcasts and you can
see the genius of how Alec can put in a
story and weave it into the question it whereas I
(34:01):
just go how you feeling? Oh, Lonnie just gave me
some flowers. That was really lovely Lonnie. But but see
the thing about you is your yourself right away, and
that puts everybody at ease. Like how you said about
Dolly Parton is like you could have nerves, but if
you're talking to somebody who's themselves and treating you just
like another person, that's when you bring to the conversing.
(34:23):
We all we all have our purpose. But how did
you like I've been? I just I just think they're
so talented and there's so much thought behind what they do.
When Dan said that I wanted to use the art
of drag to make people feel good, you know where
she went from being very bitchy and being kind of
very god character to want to be a queen. That
(34:46):
really kind of brought joy into the room. I absolutely
love that, And also I love that Ben so completely
themselves and talks about personal stuff like depression and dealing
with that and everything so the genuineness I always well
the reason why I think it's important for us to Yeah,
we want to talk to the queens, but it's very
(35:06):
important because you always get something a little bit extra,
and you also get the thought process and the meaning.
It's like everybody thinks people just get on drag Race
and that's what they do. We're understanding the process of
why a lot of people don't know. Sometimes people audition three,
four or five times just to get on, and it's like,
(35:26):
what would make you, you know, want to keep getting
on the show and you keep getting rejected things like that.
These are the behind the scene tidbits that you don't get.
So that's why, you know, we just make these interviews.
We do it and it's just wonderful that people come
on because I learned something. I get in everything, something
(35:48):
every single time. And don't forget when you talk about
your queens on social media, don't forget to tip them
show them love, Lonnie. Where can people show you love
on the on the on the instants and the instant nets,
on the on the my space nets, on the instantet.
My Space is gonna make a comeback. I don't care
what nobody said don't sleep on my space. You can
(36:11):
find me on Instagram at comic Lonnie Love on Twitter
at Lonnie Love. You know, and if you've listened to me,
squirrel Friends have decided to follow me through school friends.
Thank you. You can find me at Instagram at alec Mapa.
You gotta get a TikTok too, that's what you gotta
start now. I'm too old. But have you been on
(36:32):
high school? You all high school kids doing? No, it's
not it's all kind of ages. It's all kind of
Once you do one to three, you'll be like, oh,
all right, I don't want more time sun, but we'll
never say never. You can listen to Squirrel Friends, the
official RuPaul's Drag Race podcast on the I Heart Radio
app or wherever you get your podcasts, and if you
(36:56):
tolerated and like this episode, make sure to rate and
review us five stars. Please tell a frim yes. Then
you can catch up on past episodes of RuPaul's Drag
Race and All Stars on Paramount Plus. See you soon,
See you soon,
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