April 24, 2024 • 42 mins
On this week’s episode of STWLJ, we have music mogul Devyne Stephens. He delves in role in developing multiple superstars from Mary J Blige, to TLC to Usher as well as his partnership with Akon and their tumultuous falling out. This is an episode you don’t want to miss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah, story time with legendary Jerry. I am Jerry Clark
a k A d. Legendary Jerry, and I am truly,
truly man, truly excited to be sitting here with my brother,
my friend, colleague, one of Atlanta's one of Atlanta's really
unsung heroes. Man, I want everybody to give it up
(00:40):
for the incredible, amazing mister divine Stevens.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Tight Man.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
With an introduction like that, Bro, I don't even know
not to say no, no, listen to Vine. Atlanta has
been the true driving force of the culture. And what
people don't know, but they're going to know after this
interview that we do today, is that you have been firmly,
firmly entrenched in everything from the beginning. Like people don't
(01:09):
know that when I say this all the time, outside
of the political regime of Maynard Jackson and everything that
happened post Civil rights, that the Face Records, Antonio La
Read and Babyface bringing a label here, that's that's what
really put Atlanta on a different trajectory of really running
this whole culture. And will the Face Records being here,
(01:32):
you the first fucking artist to be signed out.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, yeah, man, people don't know that you was the
first artist.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, all the other things people know about TLC, Tony
Braxton OUTCA, you was the first artist to be signed.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Man. Yeah, man, that's uh, how did all that come about? Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Man? So I don't know how much time we got
to day, but we can get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Let's let's right into a lot of shit. Yeah man.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So I think I want to take you a little
further back before the face because I'm going to show
you how we led up into that. I mean, so
growing up in Atlanta, there was a lot of before
the rapping, before the singing. You know, when breakdancing hit
and we was able to watch you know, Bach Street
(02:19):
break in and we was able to look at Crush
Groove at that moment that motivated that the culture because
Atlanta at some point was you know, chasing like New
York or chasing La just kind of things you may
have seen on television. But meanwhile that was going on.
That was a thing of underbelly thing that was growing.
(02:40):
And that was a group of guys by the name
of FDC that I was a part of, you know,
and this was like yeah man, and you know, some
people say, you know, what does that stand for? Well
it was Fresh Dance Crew. You know. Then for some
of the younger folks that at that time, it was
a female draws collective because we.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Went around just collected a collection player.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Because you know, everywhere we went it was like a frenzy,
like people would go crazy. We win every talent show
in Atlanta, south Fordton, Cob, you name it. We would
win every talent show and then we would take the
trophy and showcase and highlight at the skating rink at
jelly Beans on Sunday. So that's where you see jelly Beans. Yeah,
(03:28):
Landmark skating rink here in Atlanta. So that became the
melting pot for like all the kids from all over
got a chance to go to the skating rink. So
no matter what school you went to, if you went there,
you went to Maids, you went to doug even the
people from College Park end up going to jelly Beans.
So but when we came to jelly Beans, we the
superstars of the jelly Bean. So right around this time,
(03:51):
new addition is popping. You know, this is like early eighties,
So then that popped, then you start seeing FDC. So
it was kind of growing together, growing together. So this
group became so famous that we end up quitting doing
talent shows. We started doing lip syncs and then we
also start performing for Bruno Brothers. So I have to
(04:11):
give a big shout out to Brnner Brothers because Bronner
Brothers is who gave us our first break and also
let us model hair because back then we had the perms.
People didn't know why I was. They didn't know I
had to think aways, you know, they didn't know why
I was at the beauty supply store and the beauty
salon all but it was it was all a play
(04:33):
that was being set up because you start talking about
the culture of Atlanta, you start talking about fashion, you
start talking about the imagery, you start talking about staging,
you start all these things that played a role in
my life that creates this whole development thing. And it
started with these pieces. Started with Branner Brothers, started with
the nightlife. It started with us going to Charles Disco
(04:56):
and you know and watching you know, the contest of
the Mister Knockout Contest of the Nasty Girl. When those
listening this, this this nigga right here is this is real,
real Atlanta ship. I ain't even gonna say Old Atlanta.
This is real Atlanta ship and so I just want
(05:18):
to paint this picture because all these things is who
made it made me who I am today? Before the
Face got a chance to witness it, before La and
Babyface saw us, it was more like they was getting
this ball of fire that was already popular and blazing
(05:41):
in the city. It's kind of like how how you'll
see an artist that become uh like, right now we
in in in today's terms. They have all these streaming
numbers and that's the reason why you want to be
in business with them. Well, we already had the popularity.
We want the popularity contest way before La and Babyface came.
So end up, I'm gonna cut it short. End up
(06:03):
performing at Frozen Paradise on Old National, I went and
got a I went and got beats from Dallas Austin.
At the time, nobody knew who Dallas was. In this
dance group we used to make the show tapes. It
was Jermaine Dupree because he had all the records from
(06:23):
he used to be in New York.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So he's to dance with Houdini.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So we kind of like trade off a little bit,
you know, give him some moves or whatever. You know,
my man Anthony Francis, who was the leader of FDC,
spent a lot of time just you know, working with
Jamaine over there getting the records, making the show tapes.
And I would take Dallas songs instrumentals because you know,
we all went to high school together. And I went
(06:46):
to Raheem the Dream, and Raheem the Dream wrote me
a rap. So that's how I went from dancing to
rapping to your first record, ram Dream wrote. So Rahem
wrote the record, so I took down and put it together.
But even then, you know, I'm taking step back in
my high school days. Me and T Boss went to
high school together, and but T Boss was an apprentice
(07:09):
at Escape.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So the salon at the hair salons.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So big shout out to Carol because Carol was the
one that's doing that started doing all of the celebs
hair and t Bos used to shampoo my hair at
the at the spot, you know what I mean, at Carol's.
So that's how all of it kind of started. The
melting pot and that school.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Y'all hear this man.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Not to cut you off, but do y'all hear this man.
This is this is I'm gonna say it again. You're
talking about T Box shampoo in your hair. You're talking
about Raheem, the Dream Roach Traverse. You're talking again, beats
from Dallas Sauce and the JD Man.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
This is this is.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That true ship of High Atlanta has been placed at
the forefront of this culture. It all started with all
this right here, correct from humble humble, humble beginners man.
Absolutely absolutely so. When you when you look at the story,
even in that time, it's like he was already popping.
I mean I used to go to school and I
(08:04):
show up to a talent show. When performed, I just
have ROTC with me. So I have like ROTC on
the left and the right, just so because the kids
were going crazy. That's how high school was for me.
And then I had a little brother in high school
that looked up to me.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
He was like yo man.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
And then when I first met this kid, I said,
that kid got something. This kid right here is talented.
But he became my little brother. And it was Rico
Wade of Hized Noise. And this is before Outcast. Actually,
when I signed to the face, I went back to
talk to Rico. And Rico worked at the beauty Supplos,
(08:41):
Dawn Heling and Delo, and he showcased outcasts for me
then and at the time, they you know, didn't really
have the identity. And I think they first song was
I even want a Benz or a Beamer, And I said, yo,
they sound like New York or something, you know. So
so Rico presented outcast to you in order to try
to take the face right. So I actually even took
(09:01):
I took Escape to the face before j D and
La passed on he passed on it. Yeah, yeah, so
I was always great, as great as an executive as
La is. I mean, you know, we ain't nobody. Nobody's
ears just perfect at the time. Plus we don't know
how that presentation was. So La passed on Ala at first, yeah,
even though they made history together later and he passed
on Escape.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I mean sometimes when you when you you know, now
I'm an exec So I kind of I kind of
can see why you could pass on certain things. You know,
certain things have an acquired taste at the beginning, you
know what I mean, And the development of some things
is not what it is today that what it would
be tomorrow. You know, a lot of people passed on
a lot of great things, but for for you know,
(09:42):
for l A, I just think just being the the
pillow and the vessel, you know, to connect the dots.
I mean, what they was able to do was incredible.
But I have to go back and say performing at
Frozen Paradise, there was a young lady that was related
to Pebbles. Her name was Kimberly Smith. So Kimberly Smith
(10:05):
actually discovered me at Frozen Paradise and her mother and
father are named Zetra and Merle Smith. They was related
to George Smith, which was Pebble's first husband. So then
they actually she took me to a parents, her parents
took me to Pebbles, so Pebbles seen me first. Then
(10:29):
after that and we did the showcase. We flew to
LA and did a showcase for LA and Babyface and
ripped the studio down. LA said nothing to us. He
just got up and walked out, and I was like, okay,
what just happened?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I was like, man, this divine?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Now, this is divine in ninety miles per hour. So
I had them flipped it from yeah yeah, y'all go
back in YouTube flip jumping off remember that video. So
I flipped it from you know, after the dancing part,
the group kind of broke up. We was start getting
older kids start going to college because you know in
FTC that was real athletes and FDC. You know, so
(11:17):
when that dispersed, I end up getting with another group
of guys and created Divine Feature ninety miles per hour.
And the biggest break at that moment when I when
I really first really realized I was onto something big
and I was famous, is when I bust Bobby Brown
ass a sensation again. But when I bussed Bobby Brown
(11:42):
as a sensation, well when you say what dancing, Yeah, dancing.
He was like a battle, like a battle yeah, man.
Because so when Bobby come on the show, he gonna
say something different.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Was he gonna agree.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Divine Bobby gonna say something different? But everybody around Bobby
gonna bring him back to reality. You got that look
like yeah, yeah, years go, Yeah, that looked like yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I got receipts.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So I don't know, I don't know how from early
nineties I got receipt from I got receipts from the eighties. Yeah,
this is real, this real true lobby story. It's not
it's so so barbricated as great as the dances Bible.
When he came to you, was like, not came to you,
but he was like, yeah, I hurd, no, no, no,
he ain't giving me no love at that moment, Like
he actually played me at that moment. So I get
(12:26):
him a paying a scene for you with club going up, sensation,
everybody there like you know, over on covering to highway,
coveting highway. This is my prerogative. Bobby Brown, he was
at this is in nineteen ninety Krim Krim.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Bobby Brown.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh, he was at the top of at the top
of his game, him and hard and soul, the whole club.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Go Bobby, go, Bobby.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Go, and Bobby just I mean he's getting it and yeah,
I mean god. The only thing I'm saying is, man,
if I can just show Bobby one time what I
can watch, then maybe Bobby would let me go on tour.
Maybe I and be a part of his crew and
rock out with him. So after Bobby finished, I looked
at the DJ because I'm a hometown favorite. So the DJ,
(13:10):
he I looked at him. I said, yo, yo, Bobby
just finished drop it. He said, okay, got you. He
played that planet rock. The only thing you've seen was
the club going from side to side. I was about
to hit him with that yeek. So so when I
hit him with it, when I hit him with him
broke down, went to the floor, came back up, slid
over to right then and slid back to him, and
(13:31):
the whole club.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Went showed me up.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
No, no, no, you know what he thought? What because
he understand the yeek, he says, yo, what was that? Oh,
that's some Atlanta ship n He said, hey man, these niggas,
sweet man.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
What's all that? That's gay? That's what he said.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, yeah, he thought he thought we was gay because
we had the finger waves and the whole nine. And
then because of the dancing went like kind of you
know like that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
He was like, what kind of game? What kind of
gate shipped they on? Right? So then.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
My man had to say, no, no, that's Atlanta. That's
the way they that's the way they rocked down. He's like, okay.
So I went to my man who owned the club.
I said, can I meet Bobby? You know? He was like, yeah,
let me take you out back. So I walk around
the back, all the people outside, Bobby getting in the
white Jaguar and I walked up to him, reached my
hand out and say, man, I just want to say
pleased to meet you. Bobby ain't shake my hand. He
(14:28):
just looked at me and said.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
That was cute. Oh I said that was cute. He
was like, yeah, that was cute and then kept taking pictures.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
That was my person. Yeah, So no Bobby Brown. So
I get a call the next day, I think, and
Marvin McIntyre and Jeff I think Jeff, Jeff his security guard.
I got invited down to Chester Studio in chester Bridge
(14:57):
and they said he man, this is the kid that
that showed Bobby Brown out And they was like what.
So then I got a chance at that moment to
kind of open up. But you got to think. Even
in nineteen ninety I started my artistry and then I
started developing talent. So then I started talking to Brooke Payne,
(15:21):
I was and Michael Business. So I was working on
Boys the Men. I did Boys the Men. I developed
Boys the Men in my garage along with another bad creation.
So Kevin Wells was the manager. But when it came
down to all of the dancing and all of that stuff,
that was me. Me even helping Kevin with ABC back then,
(15:44):
so they will all come. If Dallas produced the music,
they send me the artists to develop and with that,
you know, it kind of helped with whether the artists
fit in the marketplace. So that was the kind of
set up that we had. Dallas would do the music
and I would do the development. So that's why you see,
(16:05):
if Dallas did TLC, I did today say yeah, if
Dallas did Monica, I did Monica.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
If Dallas a partnership with.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So it wasn't a partnership, it was just it was
a brotherhood. It was a brotherhood of talent. Because at
the time, I think, you know, before Dallas, I introduced
Dallas to La and Babyface did. He did the deal
over there with Highland placed mobsters, and he had his
artists over the Face at the beginning, right after you,
right right after.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right after that.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
But at the beginning, he was still signed to George Irvin.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
HM. You know.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So then they worked them out of that situation into
the La Face situation. But this I'm I'm before all
of all.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Now, you know, jumping into the artist development. I knew
how big you were, and I knew a lot of
the artists that you had placed your hands on and
developed them into superstar superstars. But I don't know if
you remember this. I'm sure you do. Mary J was
at chas Stain and she brought you up. And when
I tell you, man, she gave you your fucking flowers
(17:19):
divine And that's when I mean, I knew. But it
really hit me on the importance of you and having
your hands on these artists, man, and taking them from
that embryo stage to superstar status. Man, she brought you
when Mary J brought you on that stage Chastain and
was like, this, dude, right here is the reason I'm
Mary J.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Blick.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah. Mary always had a beautiful soul and she never
mind sharing the light. So yeah, I was really grateful
for that moment in time.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, But I I'll tell you how the story went.
When I once I got all of Atlanta, I said,
I had the chance to work We'll probably like probably
eighty percent of urban pop culture that came out of Atlanta,
and then I kind of graduated from there and then
that gave me I think Puffy I did a deal
(18:08):
with La Reid?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
What did deal deal with La Reid?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
The he was ep over the first Usher Pro Project
Usher and did some videos or whatever. So he was
kind of like, you know, moving around in Atlanta at
the time. So once I connected with Puff, that got
me Mary. I end up doing heavy d you know,
rest in peace have I end up doing whole I
(18:33):
did the Hard Knock Life Tour, I got all of
New York, I got everything that was more came through Puff.
It came through Puff. So yeah, so Puff opened the
doors for New York. And then I graduated from there,
and then I got to Clive. Then I got a
chance to do Whitney, Houston, Carlos, Santana in terms of
just maybe it made have been music videos or a
(18:54):
television show or a war performance or any any kind
of way that they seemed fifty use my talent in
whatever capacity I was able to get all the way
to Clive. Now, once I realized I had probably did
over a billion dollars in billing. In terms of developing talent,
I might have had about two million at the time,
and I kept saying, these numbers ain't right, you know what.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mean, said adding up.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But what was cool about all of that was putting
in that work and building that catalog The one person
that reached back and set up a meeting for me
was Monica. Monica arranged the meeting for me. Yeah, Monica,
(19:41):
I love Monica set up a meeting, uh with me
and Clive Davis. And this was, as you know, for
me to present myself as an exec as a businessman,
not as not just as an artist to development.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So you know, I took that meeting with Clive and
I learned a lot in the meeting. And it was
funny because one of the executives that was there who
was arranging it setting up was a guy by the
name of Ron Gilliard. And Ron Gilliard was the history
of Ron Gilly. He used to manage Damien Hall. So
(20:16):
uh yeah, so I forgot about that. I got to
go back to that because I end up I ended
up moving to Virginia working with Teddy Riley as well.
When I mean Teddy Hot, when Teddy was on Focker Hot. Yeah,
so I end up doing Black Street Guy. I ended
up working on everything Teddy was working on. You didn't
(20:38):
developed a lot of the fucking you turned a lot
of folks into Superstar. Yeah, it's been, It's been an
incredible run. And then but Ron Gilliard when he brought
me Damien Hall, It's like, Damon's going to be an
artist now. I was like, okay. He wrote me a
check for two hundred dollars. I thought that was the
biggest thing at the time, you know, and I said
(20:59):
not it was two hundred dollars and I say, okay, man.
He said, you know, Damon don't really have no budget,
but we don't start. I said, listen, Ron, it's cool.
So then flip it fast forward. Ron become an executive
at Arista, and then Ron was like, yo, I gotcham
set this up with Clive. So I said, not a problem, boom,
So get there, Clive. I play my music. This is
(21:21):
when I become a record exec. I play my music
that I have created in my basement.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So in that batch of music was an artist by
the name of mister Rogers on the Grady Babies, and
Akon is in that batch of music, right, So I play,
I play what I have and it's done in my basement.
And he really don't say anything. He just let me
play my music. Then he stops and he asked me
(21:52):
that I want to listen to something. So then he
started playing me all his music, the artists that he
signed at the time, and I'm listening to new Angie
Stone and but his music it is done at the
at the Hit Factory. The quality of the music mine
sounded like it was on a Fisher Price.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Mix, no mix, no nothing.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Not understanding the quality of sound, and not understanding frequencies,
not understanding anything. And he said, unfortunately, Divine, it doesn't
have you know anything better than you know what I'm
already creating. But uh uh, would you consider working with
(22:42):
me on some of my other talent? And I looked
at him and I said, you know, I'm really trying
to digest what he's saying, but I'm disappointed.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
But I like, but I get it.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I stepped up to the plate not really prepared, not
even knowing what to expect. It's almost kind of like,
you know, let me just take the learning experience. But
at the same time, I'm gonna walk away with something.
So I walked away with yeah, yeah, I'll help you
with whatever you need me to do, sir, but whatever
that is, I'll help you with. So that's how I
end up doing Whitney Houston and a Colos Santana and
(23:16):
those things. But After doing all of that, I learned
something from that moment was let me go back and
fix the quality of my music.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Let me fix the sound.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
And a lot of the artists didn't really know a
lot of times when I was shopping the music and
was getting no buzz and it wasn't biting because at
the same time, I was learning how it really works.
Because if you go in a meeting with Jimmy Iveen
and you got to play music, you're not understanding that
before that meeting, before you got there, Jimmy already don't
listen to Doctor Dre.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
You can't compete with you coming there with lesser quality. Shit.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Well yeah, but you you don't know that when you're
young and you in the game. But I was able
to get in those doors, so I was able to
now really respect Let me go back and listen to
Teddy's music differently, let me go back and listen to
La and baby Face music differently. So once I got
a chance to do all of that, I had the
(24:13):
cheat code, so I start fixing everything. I was, you know,
moving around, but I was already in everybody's house. Yeah,
So it was maybe a six to seven year process
of developing my own talent, trying to get them up
to the standard where I can walk it in and
(24:33):
it can be received. Who over the years of you
developing artists, who was the most difficult artist to work with?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I don't have that problem because I think everybody develops
in a certain kind of pace and it all depends.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
On what they maybe maybe difficult.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Who was the most challenging from the beginning that wind
up being challenging at the beginning that you saw at
the end, like look at this, I would have to
say one twelve really, And the reason why I say
that is because you know the prereference man, they don't
really they don't do this, man, But you know, if
you can get anything out of them, you know, you know,
(25:14):
just le's see if we can find a groove. And
I said, I tell you what. And the reason why
I said, I don't have that problem because every suit
is designed different. I'm gonna make it fit them versus
the versus what you think it should look like. So
what I do is go in and pull the best
out of the artists. I don't have to go in
there and say, let me give you me. That's like
(25:34):
when I put on a puffy presentation, and Puffy got
a bop. Puffy ain't the Michael Jackson dance of the world.
Puffy got a groove. So I have to find a
groove that's in Puffy. I don't go in there and say,
let me put Michael Jackson's type steps on Puffy right.
He ain't gonna get it right, so and he'll be
(25:55):
in there struggling all day trying to learn that. So
I find the nugget that's in you and polish that up.
I don't have to create something from the ground up.
So with one twelve, it was more like trying to
find a lane and an identity. So I was able
to do that. And they said Dorn can't dance at all.
He has two left feet. And I said, I said, no, no, no,
(26:16):
I asked Arn when I first seen him. I said,
I'm gonna play this song and I just want you
to walk from this side of the room to that
side of the room on beat. What do you mean,
I said, I'm playing, Just walk across.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I walked.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
He walked right on the beat, He walked right on rhythm.
I said, I gotta go.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Not a problem.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Here we go. This is how we're tapping in. We
tapping in this way. And then he worked the hardest,
he put in more hours. So that's how I was
able to get when I got out of one twelve
and even to this day, right now, they're still performing
the same, the same I went to a bad boy.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I just saw Q Park performed the other day.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
He's doing the same thing that I gave him and
his show.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
This show is great, Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
But when you first got them boys, when they when
they walked in man puffs say here, no, but let's
go back. Michael Bimins call and said he wanted boys
to men. They was like commission. They wasn't standing around
just do wopping. He was cool with that, and I said,
and I'll give you a minute. I'm gonna fix this
and I'll come back to you. So me and my
guys went to work individually on each one of them,
(27:25):
and then that's when you see Motown Philly now now
their household. They became the biggest boy band, the biggest
boy band in the history and againness book of war Rickords.
So I have the number one boy band and number
one and two girl group from Destiny Child and TLC
and the biggest groups in the world. And then you
(27:47):
hear this right here, man, And if you want to
talk about this is this is divine Stevens.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Say that again. Man, I need I need you to
pat that the.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Number one develop artists that I developed, number one boy
band which is Boys to Men, number one two and
number one and two girl groups Destiny Child TLC right,
all came through the vine, steven And not only that,
(28:19):
So then we can fast forward that too. So the
number one rap album in the world, that's what we
let's let's get into it. Let's get into the number
one so then you can say, Rico, my little brother
the conversation, what about the biggest international and then I
(28:40):
created the biggest international pop star that started the African
movement that when they told me so being African. So
let's jump into that perfect segway. So you mentioned a
minute ago that a coon was in the group. Uh,
what's what's the group that he was in? A coon
was part of the refugee camp with why class. No,
(29:03):
you just mentioned when you took the project to Clive
Davis day. When I took that project, he was in,
he was a part of He wasn't in the group.
He was just a part of my production company at
the time when I had just three year I had
multiple artists and me and you must have met it
because when I first met Cohn, it was out of
Ali Cat's house when he was in school going to
hoop Okay, so that's when I met him. Okay, So
(29:26):
me and you had you were around then back at
the beginning beginning of Akon, at the very beginning, I've
been around the whole time I've been around before he
even signed to lecture as a solo artist. See the
whole time I've been around, But he wasn't actually really
signed to me, so I didn't find a Kon. Little
Zaane brought Akon to me, and then Akon start coming
(29:46):
around me. Men ACoM became friends before I actually said
I would sign him more investment in his career. He
would ask me questions about the business. He came to
my spot because when he came there, he saw us
you're going out. He saw a pink leaving out, he
saw a TLC leaving He was like, who is this guy?
He got all these people, so he wanted to know
(30:09):
me because he wanted to be a part of that
m So that's how I met Acon.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
It wasn't. I wasn't. Y'all made a lot of great
history together. Yeah. Yeah, we made a lot of hit records.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
We made a lot of hit pim tight and you know,
I've seen and talked to akon a million times and
of course you know, it just it hurts me, man,
to see in the media man with y'all, you know,
having this rift, especially over some bread man. Oh man,
I mean, I think it's a kid man. I think
it's a kit for all culture. I think, you know,
(30:40):
I think a lot of us feeling that success. I
don't think it's because y'all chemistry man as a team man,
like I like over the years of me working with
with Steve Rifkin at SRC and me working the well,
I won't say the first record, but belly Dancing, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That was the first one. Oh okay, yeah, I worked
that record. So I always, you know, admire y'all chemistry man,
personally and professionally. So to see it come to the
point where you know, it's shit being said in the
media and y'all got to go to court, Man, that
shit hurt me. Dog, Yeah, I mean hurt. It's a
painful thing. But I think for the most part, it's
(31:15):
just been an incredible learning experience because this is Acon
and my first time around the track, you know, and experience.
In that magnitude of success and money, a lot of
things came to play, and a lot of people came
to play, and a lot of dividing came to play.
But the cancer, like you know, it starts from the inside.
(31:38):
So a lot of jealousy, envy jumped off from the inside.
And it's not just in my house. It's in other
people houses too. You know, it happens in a lot
of artists. You know, when we go back and we
look at the story, I just thought me and Acona
treated differently because I already had the answer, already seen
(31:59):
this are ready. I've been around Teddy Riley, Jean Griffin.
I've been around La and.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Babyface and Pebbles and go down that same road.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I saw success. I had success already. I can show
you how this is divided. I've been with Usher and
Janetta Patton. Janetta Patten says, I've been with Matthew Knows
and Beyonce. I've seen this. I even seen Michael Jackson
and Joe Jackson.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We know the game.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
We've seen this happen. So at the end of the day,
when you allow money.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
To dictate.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
How this really works, then that's when you know you've
been captured. And my whole thing is I have to
pray for my brother at this point because he's captured
and he doesn't understand the game. He thinking that, you know,
we're gonna run off with the money and go to Africa.
And what I'm saying to you is, we ain't from Africa.
(33:06):
Now we can go back into history and you can
say whatever, I'm from College Park, Georgia, and Nigga'm from
now ancestors and all that, we can talk about that,
but nigga, I'm from Atlanta and you from Saint Louis
by Way, New Jersey to Atlanta. Pem tight, At what
(33:29):
point what dollar am I did to get with? Y'all
had to go to court? He was like, all right, man,
it's like, come on, my nigga, Like was it millions?
I'm sure, but like they had to take this ship
to court and where did where how did this all
build up?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Where was it?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I mean, because y'all were your business partners. Yeah, well
you became artists. You know, you grew in the situation
he was signing me as an artist, and then you know,
you graduate, so you know, you become an artist, then
you become you know, a business, business partner, you know
what I'm saying, and then you become a leader. And
all of that was still the tuolage and the knowledge
(34:07):
that I would give him along the way. So at
the end of the day, you can't stop. It's sometimes
just the outside influences that come in that separates it,
because everybody got away. You can get somewhere faster, and
if you're the kind of person that assessive and you
want to get there fast and you don't want to
(34:28):
take your time to get there, then you're subject to
listen to whatever somebody tell you before you do the
due diligence on the business.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So when it comes to.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
The whole universal and the whole aspect of it, it
was a lot of divide and conquer because of the money.
Everybody's trying to find a position. Whoever think that the
artist is the business, they get closer to the artists.
So the whole time they was trying to push me out. Anyway,
(35:00):
you're trying to take something that I think Akon is
trying to push you out of it, like it outside it.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
And his ears.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
And my point is he just fell for the trick.
It's a trick because it ain't about the money right now.
What we're planning for right now is if we build
a catalog together, we build history together. Let's say that's
a whole African movement going on that he's not running,
but he's the first. He had his finger on the
(35:30):
post of that. But when people see, when they see
the business, they see the model, they able to divide it.
So the best thing to do, let's divide how it starts.
So it's going to start with me and him, So
let's push divine over to the side. Now we got Akon,
we got it. We just con Yeah, but they don't
know what make Acon tick. They don't understand how to
pull the best out of Acon. It's not about pulling
(35:52):
the best out of Akon. Akon don't even I mean
as an art itinerary and trying to follow on our itenerary.
They don't even understand how that works for him. So
let alone the security God becomes the manager at the
end of the day, because he's the one that's there
the most. It happens in every situation. Let's take your
(36:13):
night for instance, security guard. Just because he was there,
he becomes the manager. It happens in everybody house and
not just in minds. The divide and Conker has always
been the number one thing when people become successful, because
people are insecure.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Did you get the money though?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
That that I made a lot of money and a
lot of money was stolen and then a lot of
money how much money you think was stolen? We talking
millions of millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
So but at the end of the day, did you
get that back from court? Divine?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I haven't gotten my money yet. I'm still in court
and certain things I can't. I thought y'all settled out
and everything.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
We're still we're still in court.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Damn, pimp tight. But but you know, at the end
of the day, we're gonna pray for my brother because
so you know coming it ain't no divine to Akon
coming back together because y'all was a dream team. Man.
I mean, it's not even it's not even a coming
together because it's like I would always love Akon, but
I think Acon has grew up I don't know. I
(37:26):
don't know Acon. I don't know this Akon. I never
met that Acon. We all gonna grow up, we all
gonna turn into something. You know, as you get older
and you mature, how you handle success, it's gonna be
probably totally different than the way I handle success. So
I don't know this Acon. I have to reintroduce myself,
re meet this guy, re meet the people around them
to even know that that isn't something that my spirit
(37:48):
will allow me to even be a part of. I'm
in a different space in my life, you know what
I'm saying. So I don't know if that works for me.
But at the end of the day, it's always been
my brother. You want that bread, Well, now I want
business to be resolved, and we're gonna always make money.
I just think, I just think the debt of what
happened has to be cleared up because there's a lot
(38:10):
of people that play the role and there's a lot
of people that it's still all money, So that has
to be taken care of.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Him had a talk like a man. The man have
y'all got on the phone. It cost the talk.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It costs the talk. I could tell you the last
conversation we had. We're close to twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
It costs the talk. We can't just it's not a
phone call. It's not that.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
It's people and you know you got to call this person.
To call this person, then we have to have mediation.
It's not it's not a pick up the phone. I'm blocked.
I'm blocked.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If I call this right now, you can call.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Him, but I call him, it's gonna go straight to voicemail.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
It's blocked. I'm blocked on. I'm blocked on the IG None.
I'm blocked on IG.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
I'm blocked on. I can't call this phone. I can't
even call his sister phone. I'm blocked on there to.
I can't call Boo. I'm blocked on there too. And
these are people that I bred life into. These are
the people had zero dollars. These are people that I
bought vehicles and provide a shelter. But at the end
of the day, I won't even say it's all them.
(39:13):
I'll just say that sometimes the business can turn you
into this, and it ain't just happened in my house. Yeah,
it's a part of the business that you hate. But
for me, I just learned from it. It's it's a lesson.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm not bitter. I'm not I'm not I'm still moving.
God is still doing.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And for my brothers and them, you know, we we
we pray for that, you know, we pray that, you know,
somewhere along the line, that God deliver him. You know
what I'm saying, you know where it's not so obsessive,
you know, and you know, and and hopefully he can
really find this way back to the music, because you know,
(40:02):
he's a great talent. He's a great writer and producer.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
First, Oh, he's one of the best best ever do it. Yeah,
that's that's.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Originally what he started doing first before he came an artist.
And and then he you know, I was able to
package it the music. Even when you talk about you
work belly dancers. While you was working belly dance, I
knew that was the wrong record. Yeah, that wasn't the one.
(40:31):
But you you probably don't remember this. I remember us talking.
I was like, and you told me to be straight up.
You said, do you think this is a hit? I said, no,
it's not a hit. I thought it was a cool record,
but I didn't think it was a smash. But while
they was working that record, they thought that was the
money record. They thought that that would Who picked that
(40:51):
record Universal, I'm not even gonna says collect a collective.
It's a collective, you know, Steve ain't just picking records.
It's people that comes in there, like opinion and it's
an r. So at the end of the day, while
they was working that record, I was working Locked Up.
I took my dancing money, was pressing up records. I
took my dancing money with the record. That's the record
(41:14):
that took off, that took it there. Yeah, So at
the end of the day. But before that record, the
development of teaching him how to write songs, teaching him
how to produce, giving him the right subject matters, developing
him as an artist. All that came from me being
with Clive Davis, me being with La and Babyface, me
(41:37):
being with Teddy Riley, oh number one person, being with
Eric Sermon mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
So being with the Green.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So he played a.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Very very him and BERNARDA. Alexander played a very very
instrumental role in Akon success at the very beginning. So
I had some of the best producers and executives in
the game that I learned from and gave the information
(42:05):
and other artists too, but it come was the one
that comes to.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Make a beneficiary. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Story Time with the Legendary Jerry's hosted by me, the
one and only, Jerry Clark. Music has been provided by
July the producer. If you haven't already, please please make
sure you subscribe to Storytime with the Legendary Jerry on
YouTube and wherever you listen to podcasts, and make sure
(42:36):
you follow us on all social media platforms at the
Legendary Jerry podcast. For more podcasts from my Heart Media,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows,
Yeah, story time with legendary Jerry. I am Jerry Clark
a k A d. Legendary Jerry, and I am truly,
truly man, truly excited to be sitting here with my brother,
my friend, colleague, one of Atlanta's one of Atlanta's really
unsung heroes. Man, I want everybody to give it up
(00:40):
for the incredible, amazing mister divine Stevens.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Tight Man.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
With an introduction like that, Bro, I don't even know
not to say no, no, listen to Vine. Atlanta has
been the true driving force of the culture. And what
people don't know, but they're going to know after this
interview that we do today, is that you have been firmly,
firmly entrenched in everything from the beginning. Like people don't
(01:09):
know that when I say this all the time, outside
of the political regime of Maynard Jackson and everything that
happened post Civil rights, that the Face Records, Antonio La
Read and Babyface bringing a label here, that's that's what
really put Atlanta on a different trajectory of really running
this whole culture. And will the Face Records being here,
(01:32):
you the first fucking artist to be signed out.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, yeah, man, people don't know that you was the
first artist.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, all the other things people know about TLC, Tony
Braxton OUTCA, you was the first artist to be signed.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Man. Yeah, man, that's uh, how did all that come about? Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Man? So I don't know how much time we got
to day, but we can get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Let's let's right into a lot of shit. Yeah man.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So I think I want to take you a little
further back before the face because I'm going to show
you how we led up into that. I mean, so
growing up in Atlanta, there was a lot of before
the rapping, before the singing. You know, when breakdancing hit
and we was able to watch you know, Bach Street
(02:19):
break in and we was able to look at Crush
Groove at that moment that motivated that the culture because
Atlanta at some point was you know, chasing like New
York or chasing La just kind of things you may
have seen on television. But meanwhile that was going on.
That was a thing of underbelly thing that was growing.
(02:40):
And that was a group of guys by the name
of FDC that I was a part of, you know,
and this was like yeah man, and you know, some
people say, you know, what does that stand for? Well
it was Fresh Dance Crew. You know. Then for some
of the younger folks that at that time, it was
a female draws collective because we.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Went around just collected a collection player.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Because you know, everywhere we went it was like a frenzy,
like people would go crazy. We win every talent show
in Atlanta, south Fordton, Cob, you name it. We would
win every talent show and then we would take the
trophy and showcase and highlight at the skating rink at
jelly Beans on Sunday. So that's where you see jelly Beans. Yeah,
(03:28):
Landmark skating rink here in Atlanta. So that became the
melting pot for like all the kids from all over
got a chance to go to the skating rink. So
no matter what school you went to, if you went there,
you went to Maids, you went to doug even the
people from College Park end up going to jelly Beans.
So but when we came to jelly Beans, we the
superstars of the jelly Bean. So right around this time,
(03:51):
new addition is popping. You know, this is like early eighties,
So then that popped, then you start seeing FDC. So
it was kind of growing together, growing together. So this
group became so famous that we end up quitting doing
talent shows. We started doing lip syncs and then we
also start performing for Bruno Brothers. So I have to
(04:11):
give a big shout out to Brnner Brothers because Bronner
Brothers is who gave us our first break and also
let us model hair because back then we had the perms.
People didn't know why I was. They didn't know I
had to think aways, you know, they didn't know why
I was at the beauty supply store and the beauty
salon all but it was it was all a play
(04:33):
that was being set up because you start talking about
the culture of Atlanta, you start talking about fashion, you
start talking about the imagery, you start talking about staging,
you start all these things that played a role in
my life that creates this whole development thing. And it
started with these pieces. Started with Branner Brothers, started with
the nightlife. It started with us going to Charles Disco
(04:56):
and you know and watching you know, the contest of
the Mister Knockout Contest of the Nasty Girl. When those
listening this, this this nigga right here is this is real,
real Atlanta ship. I ain't even gonna say Old Atlanta.
This is real Atlanta ship and so I just want
(05:18):
to paint this picture because all these things is who
made it made me who I am today? Before the
Face got a chance to witness it, before La and
Babyface saw us, it was more like they was getting
this ball of fire that was already popular and blazing
(05:41):
in the city. It's kind of like how how you'll
see an artist that become uh like, right now we
in in in today's terms. They have all these streaming
numbers and that's the reason why you want to be
in business with them. Well, we already had the popularity.
We want the popularity contest way before La and Babyface came.
So end up, I'm gonna cut it short. End up
(06:03):
performing at Frozen Paradise on Old National, I went and
got a I went and got beats from Dallas Austin.
At the time, nobody knew who Dallas was. In this
dance group we used to make the show tapes. It
was Jermaine Dupree because he had all the records from
(06:23):
he used to be in New York.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
So he's to dance with Houdini.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
So we kind of like trade off a little bit,
you know, give him some moves or whatever. You know,
my man Anthony Francis, who was the leader of FDC,
spent a lot of time just you know, working with
Jamaine over there getting the records, making the show tapes.
And I would take Dallas songs instrumentals because you know,
we all went to high school together. And I went
(06:46):
to Raheem the Dream, and Raheem the Dream wrote me
a rap. So that's how I went from dancing to
rapping to your first record, ram Dream wrote. So Rahem
wrote the record, so I took down and put it together.
But even then, you know, I'm taking step back in
my high school days. Me and T Boss went to
high school together, and but T Boss was an apprentice
(07:09):
at Escape.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So the salon at the hair salons.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So big shout out to Carol because Carol was the
one that's doing that started doing all of the celebs
hair and t Bos used to shampoo my hair at
the at the spot, you know what I mean, at Carol's.
So that's how all of it kind of started. The
melting pot and that school.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Y'all hear this man.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Not to cut you off, but do y'all hear this man.
This is this is I'm gonna say it again. You're
talking about T Box shampoo in your hair. You're talking
about Raheem, the Dream Roach Traverse. You're talking again, beats
from Dallas Sauce and the JD Man.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
This is this is.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That true ship of High Atlanta has been placed at
the forefront of this culture. It all started with all
this right here, correct from humble humble, humble beginners man.
Absolutely absolutely so. When you when you look at the story,
even in that time, it's like he was already popping.
I mean I used to go to school and I
(08:04):
show up to a talent show. When performed, I just
have ROTC with me. So I have like ROTC on
the left and the right, just so because the kids
were going crazy. That's how high school was for me.
And then I had a little brother in high school
that looked up to me.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
He was like yo man.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
And then when I first met this kid, I said,
that kid got something. This kid right here is talented.
But he became my little brother. And it was Rico
Wade of Hized Noise. And this is before Outcast. Actually,
when I signed to the face, I went back to
talk to Rico. And Rico worked at the beauty Supplos,
(08:41):
Dawn Heling and Delo, and he showcased outcasts for me
then and at the time, they you know, didn't really
have the identity. And I think they first song was
I even want a Benz or a Beamer, And I said, yo,
they sound like New York or something, you know. So
so Rico presented outcast to you in order to try
to take the face right. So I actually even took
(09:01):
I took Escape to the face before j D and
La passed on he passed on it. Yeah, yeah, so
I was always great, as great as an executive as
La is. I mean, you know, we ain't nobody. Nobody's
ears just perfect at the time. Plus we don't know
how that presentation was. So La passed on Ala at first, yeah,
even though they made history together later and he passed
on Escape.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I mean sometimes when you when you you know, now
I'm an exec So I kind of I kind of
can see why you could pass on certain things. You know,
certain things have an acquired taste at the beginning, you
know what I mean, And the development of some things
is not what it is today that what it would
be tomorrow. You know, a lot of people passed on
a lot of great things, but for for you know,
(09:42):
for l A, I just think just being the the
pillow and the vessel, you know, to connect the dots.
I mean, what they was able to do was incredible.
But I have to go back and say performing at
Frozen Paradise, there was a young lady that was related
to Pebbles. Her name was Kimberly Smith. So Kimberly Smith
(10:05):
actually discovered me at Frozen Paradise and her mother and
father are named Zetra and Merle Smith. They was related
to George Smith, which was Pebble's first husband. So then
they actually she took me to a parents, her parents
took me to Pebbles, so Pebbles seen me first. Then
(10:29):
after that and we did the showcase. We flew to
LA and did a showcase for LA and Babyface and
ripped the studio down. LA said nothing to us. He
just got up and walked out, and I was like, okay,
what just happened?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I was like, man, this divine?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Now, this is divine in ninety miles per hour. So
I had them flipped it from yeah yeah, y'all go
back in YouTube flip jumping off remember that video. So
I flipped it from you know, after the dancing part,
the group kind of broke up. We was start getting
older kids start going to college because you know in
FTC that was real athletes and FDC. You know, so
(11:17):
when that dispersed, I end up getting with another group
of guys and created Divine Feature ninety miles per hour.
And the biggest break at that moment when I when
I really first really realized I was onto something big
and I was famous, is when I bust Bobby Brown
ass a sensation again. But when I bussed Bobby Brown
(11:42):
as a sensation, well when you say what dancing, Yeah, dancing.
He was like a battle, like a battle yeah, man.
Because so when Bobby come on the show, he gonna
say something different.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Was he gonna agree.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Divine Bobby gonna say something different? But everybody around Bobby
gonna bring him back to reality. You got that look
like yeah, yeah, years go, Yeah, that looked like yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I got receipts.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
So I don't know, I don't know how from early
nineties I got receipt from I got receipts from the eighties. Yeah,
this is real, this real true lobby story. It's not
it's so so barbricated as great as the dances Bible.
When he came to you, was like, not came to you,
but he was like, yeah, I hurd, no, no, no,
he ain't giving me no love at that moment, Like
he actually played me at that moment. So I get
(12:26):
him a paying a scene for you with club going up, sensation,
everybody there like you know, over on covering to highway,
coveting highway. This is my prerogative. Bobby Brown, he was
at this is in nineteen ninety Krim Krim.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Bobby Brown.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh, he was at the top of at the top
of his game, him and hard and soul, the whole club.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Go Bobby, go, Bobby.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Go, and Bobby just I mean he's getting it and yeah,
I mean god. The only thing I'm saying is, man,
if I can just show Bobby one time what I
can watch, then maybe Bobby would let me go on tour.
Maybe I and be a part of his crew and
rock out with him. So after Bobby finished, I looked
at the DJ because I'm a hometown favorite. So the DJ,
(13:10):
he I looked at him. I said, yo, yo, Bobby
just finished drop it. He said, okay, got you. He
played that planet rock. The only thing you've seen was
the club going from side to side. I was about
to hit him with that yeek. So so when I
hit him with it, when I hit him with him
broke down, went to the floor, came back up, slid
over to right then and slid back to him, and
(13:31):
the whole club.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Went showed me up.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
No, no, no, you know what he thought? What because
he understand the yeek, he says, yo, what was that? Oh,
that's some Atlanta ship n He said, hey man, these niggas,
sweet man.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
What's all that? That's gay? That's what he said.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, yeah, he thought he thought we was gay because
we had the finger waves and the whole nine. And
then because of the dancing went like kind of you
know like that.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
He was like, what kind of game? What kind of
gate shipped they on? Right? So then.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
My man had to say, no, no, that's Atlanta. That's
the way they that's the way they rocked down. He's like, okay.
So I went to my man who owned the club.
I said, can I meet Bobby? You know? He was like, yeah,
let me take you out back. So I walk around
the back, all the people outside, Bobby getting in the
white Jaguar and I walked up to him, reached my
hand out and say, man, I just want to say
pleased to meet you. Bobby ain't shake my hand. He
(14:28):
just looked at me and said.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
That was cute. Oh I said that was cute. He
was like, yeah, that was cute and then kept taking pictures.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
That was my person. Yeah, So no Bobby Brown. So
I get a call the next day, I think, and
Marvin McIntyre and Jeff I think Jeff, Jeff his security guard.
I got invited down to Chester Studio in chester Bridge
(14:57):
and they said he man, this is the kid that
that showed Bobby Brown out And they was like what.
So then I got a chance at that moment to
kind of open up. But you got to think. Even
in nineteen ninety I started my artistry and then I
started developing talent. So then I started talking to Brooke Payne,
(15:21):
I was and Michael Business. So I was working on
Boys the Men. I did Boys the Men. I developed
Boys the Men in my garage along with another bad creation.
So Kevin Wells was the manager. But when it came
down to all of the dancing and all of that stuff,
that was me. Me even helping Kevin with ABC back then,
(15:44):
so they will all come. If Dallas produced the music,
they send me the artists to develop and with that,
you know, it kind of helped with whether the artists
fit in the marketplace. So that was the kind of
set up that we had. Dallas would do the music
and I would do the development. So that's why you see,
(16:05):
if Dallas did TLC, I did today say yeah, if
Dallas did Monica, I did Monica.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
If Dallas a partnership with.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So it wasn't a partnership, it was just it was
a brotherhood. It was a brotherhood of talent. Because at
the time, I think, you know, before Dallas, I introduced
Dallas to La and Babyface did. He did the deal
over there with Highland placed mobsters, and he had his
artists over the Face at the beginning, right after you,
right right after.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right after that.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
But at the beginning, he was still signed to George Irvin.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
HM. You know.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So then they worked them out of that situation into
the La Face situation. But this I'm I'm before all
of all.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Now, you know, jumping into the artist development. I knew
how big you were, and I knew a lot of
the artists that you had placed your hands on and
developed them into superstar superstars. But I don't know if
you remember this. I'm sure you do. Mary J was
at chas Stain and she brought you up. And when
I tell you, man, she gave you your fucking flowers
(17:19):
divine And that's when I mean, I knew. But it
really hit me on the importance of you and having
your hands on these artists, man, and taking them from
that embryo stage to superstar status. Man, she brought you
when Mary J brought you on that stage Chastain and
was like, this, dude, right here is the reason I'm
Mary J.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Blick.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah. Mary always had a beautiful soul and she never
mind sharing the light. So yeah, I was really grateful
for that moment in time.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, But I I'll tell you how the story went.
When I once I got all of Atlanta, I said,
I had the chance to work We'll probably like probably
eighty percent of urban pop culture that came out of Atlanta,
and then I kind of graduated from there and then
that gave me I think Puffy I did a deal
(18:08):
with La Reid?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
What did deal deal with La Reid?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
The he was ep over the first Usher Pro Project
Usher and did some videos or whatever. So he was
kind of like, you know, moving around in Atlanta at
the time. So once I connected with Puff, that got
me Mary. I end up doing heavy d you know,
rest in peace have I end up doing whole I
(18:33):
did the Hard Knock Life Tour, I got all of
New York, I got everything that was more came through Puff.
It came through Puff. So yeah, so Puff opened the
doors for New York. And then I graduated from there,
and then I got to Clive. Then I got a
chance to do Whitney, Houston, Carlos, Santana in terms of
just maybe it made have been music videos or a
(18:54):
television show or a war performance or any any kind
of way that they seemed fifty use my talent in
whatever capacity I was able to get all the way
to Clive. Now, once I realized I had probably did
over a billion dollars in billing. In terms of developing talent,
I might have had about two million at the time,
and I kept saying, these numbers ain't right, you know what.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mean, said adding up.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But what was cool about all of that was putting
in that work and building that catalog The one person
that reached back and set up a meeting for me
was Monica. Monica arranged the meeting for me. Yeah, Monica,
(19:41):
I love Monica set up a meeting, uh with me
and Clive Davis. And this was, as you know, for
me to present myself as an exec as a businessman,
not as not just as an artist to development.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So you know, I took that meeting with Clive and
I learned a lot in the meeting. And it was
funny because one of the executives that was there who
was arranging it setting up was a guy by the
name of Ron Gilliard. And Ron Gilliard was the history
of Ron Gilly. He used to manage Damien Hall. So
(20:16):
uh yeah, so I forgot about that. I got to
go back to that because I end up I ended
up moving to Virginia working with Teddy Riley as well.
When I mean Teddy Hot, when Teddy was on Focker Hot. Yeah,
so I end up doing Black Street Guy. I ended
up working on everything Teddy was working on. You didn't
(20:38):
developed a lot of the fucking you turned a lot
of folks into Superstar. Yeah, it's been, It's been an
incredible run. And then but Ron Gilliard when he brought
me Damien Hall, It's like, Damon's going to be an
artist now. I was like, okay. He wrote me a
check for two hundred dollars. I thought that was the
biggest thing at the time, you know, and I said
(20:59):
not it was two hundred dollars and I say, okay, man.
He said, you know, Damon don't really have no budget,
but we don't start. I said, listen, Ron, it's cool.
So then flip it fast forward. Ron become an executive
at Arista, and then Ron was like, yo, I gotcham
set this up with Clive. So I said, not a problem, boom,
So get there, Clive. I play my music. This is
(21:21):
when I become a record exec. I play my music
that I have created in my basement.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So in that batch of music was an artist by
the name of mister Rogers on the Grady Babies, and
Akon is in that batch of music, right, So I play,
I play what I have and it's done in my basement.
And he really don't say anything. He just let me
play my music. Then he stops and he asked me
(21:52):
that I want to listen to something. So then he
started playing me all his music, the artists that he
signed at the time, and I'm listening to new Angie
Stone and but his music it is done at the
at the Hit Factory. The quality of the music mine
sounded like it was on a Fisher Price.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Mix, no mix, no nothing.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Not understanding the quality of sound, and not understanding frequencies,
not understanding anything. And he said, unfortunately, Divine, it doesn't
have you know anything better than you know what I'm
already creating. But uh uh, would you consider working with
(22:42):
me on some of my other talent? And I looked
at him and I said, you know, I'm really trying
to digest what he's saying, but I'm disappointed.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
But I like, but I get it.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I stepped up to the plate not really prepared, not
even knowing what to expect. It's almost kind of like,
you know, let me just take the learning experience. But
at the same time, I'm gonna walk away with something.
So I walked away with yeah, yeah, I'll help you
with whatever you need me to do, sir, but whatever
that is, I'll help you with. So that's how I
end up doing Whitney Houston and a Colos Santana and
(23:16):
those things. But After doing all of that, I learned
something from that moment was let me go back and
fix the quality of my music.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Let me fix the sound.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
And a lot of the artists didn't really know a
lot of times when I was shopping the music and
was getting no buzz and it wasn't biting because at
the same time, I was learning how it really works.
Because if you go in a meeting with Jimmy Iveen
and you got to play music, you're not understanding that
before that meeting, before you got there, Jimmy already don't
listen to Doctor Dre.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
You can't compete with you coming there with lesser quality. Shit.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Well yeah, but you you don't know that when you're
young and you in the game. But I was able
to get in those doors, so I was able to
now really respect Let me go back and listen to
Teddy's music differently, let me go back and listen to
La and baby Face music differently. So once I got
a chance to do all of that, I had the
(24:13):
cheat code, so I start fixing everything. I was, you know,
moving around, but I was already in everybody's house. Yeah,
So it was maybe a six to seven year process
of developing my own talent, trying to get them up
to the standard where I can walk it in and
(24:33):
it can be received. Who over the years of you
developing artists, who was the most difficult artist to work with?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Well, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I don't have that problem because I think everybody develops
in a certain kind of pace and it all depends.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
On what they maybe maybe difficult.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Who was the most challenging from the beginning that wind
up being challenging at the beginning that you saw at
the end, like look at this, I would have to
say one twelve really, And the reason why I say
that is because you know the prereference man, they don't
really they don't do this, man, But you know, if
you can get anything out of them, you know, you know,
(25:14):
just le's see if we can find a groove. And
I said, I tell you what. And the reason why
I said, I don't have that problem because every suit
is designed different. I'm gonna make it fit them versus
the versus what you think it should look like. So
what I do is go in and pull the best
out of the artists. I don't have to go in
there and say, let me give you me. That's like
(25:34):
when I put on a puffy presentation, and Puffy got
a bop. Puffy ain't the Michael Jackson dance of the world.
Puffy got a groove. So I have to find a
groove that's in Puffy. I don't go in there and say,
let me put Michael Jackson's type steps on Puffy right.
He ain't gonna get it right, so and he'll be
(25:55):
in there struggling all day trying to learn that. So
I find the nugget that's in you and polish that up.
I don't have to create something from the ground up.
So with one twelve, it was more like trying to
find a lane and an identity. So I was able
to do that. And they said Dorn can't dance at all.
He has two left feet. And I said, I said, no, no, no,
(26:16):
I asked Arn when I first seen him. I said,
I'm gonna play this song and I just want you
to walk from this side of the room to that
side of the room on beat. What do you mean,
I said, I'm playing, Just walk across.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I walked.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
He walked right on the beat, He walked right on rhythm.
I said, I gotta go.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Not a problem.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Here we go. This is how we're tapping in. We
tapping in this way. And then he worked the hardest,
he put in more hours. So that's how I was
able to get when I got out of one twelve
and even to this day, right now, they're still performing
the same, the same I went to a bad boy.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I just saw Q Park performed the other day.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
He's doing the same thing that I gave him and
his show.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
This show is great, Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
But when you first got them boys, when they when
they walked in man puffs say here, no, but let's
go back. Michael Bimins call and said he wanted boys
to men. They was like commission. They wasn't standing around
just do wopping. He was cool with that, and I said,
and I'll give you a minute. I'm gonna fix this
and I'll come back to you. So me and my
guys went to work individually on each one of them,
(27:25):
and then that's when you see Motown Philly now now
their household. They became the biggest boy band, the biggest
boy band in the history and againness book of war Rickords.
So I have the number one boy band and number
one and two girl group from Destiny Child and TLC
and the biggest groups in the world. And then you
(27:47):
hear this right here, man, And if you want to
talk about this is this is divine Stevens.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Say that again. Man, I need I need you to
pat that the.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Number one develop artists that I developed, number one boy
band which is Boys to Men, number one two and
number one and two girl groups Destiny Child TLC right,
all came through the vine, steven And not only that,
(28:19):
So then we can fast forward that too. So the
number one rap album in the world, that's what we
let's let's get into it. Let's get into the number
one so then you can say, Rico, my little brother
the conversation, what about the biggest international and then I
(28:40):
created the biggest international pop star that started the African
movement that when they told me so being African. So
let's jump into that perfect segway. So you mentioned a
minute ago that a coon was in the group. Uh,
what's what's the group that he was in? A coon
was part of the refugee camp with why class. No,
(29:03):
you just mentioned when you took the project to Clive
Davis day. When I took that project, he was in,
he was a part of He wasn't in the group.
He was just a part of my production company at
the time when I had just three year I had
multiple artists and me and you must have met it
because when I first met Cohn, it was out of
Ali Cat's house when he was in school going to
hoop Okay, so that's when I met him. Okay, So
(29:26):
me and you had you were around then back at
the beginning beginning of Akon, at the very beginning, I've
been around the whole time I've been around before he
even signed to lecture as a solo artist. See the
whole time I've been around, But he wasn't actually really
signed to me, so I didn't find a Kon. Little
Zaane brought Akon to me, and then Akon start coming
(29:46):
around me. Men ACoM became friends before I actually said
I would sign him more investment in his career. He
would ask me questions about the business. He came to
my spot because when he came there, he saw us
you're going out. He saw a pink leaving out, he
saw a TLC leaving He was like, who is this guy?
He got all these people, so he wanted to know
(30:09):
me because he wanted to be a part of that
m So that's how I met Acon.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
It wasn't. I wasn't. Y'all made a lot of great
history together. Yeah. Yeah, we made a lot of hit records.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
We made a lot of hit pim tight and you know,
I've seen and talked to akon a million times and
of course you know, it just it hurts me, man,
to see in the media man with y'all, you know,
having this rift, especially over some bread man. Oh man,
I mean, I think it's a kid man. I think
it's a kit for all culture. I think, you know,
(30:40):
I think a lot of us feeling that success. I
don't think it's because y'all chemistry man as a team man,
like I like over the years of me working with
with Steve Rifkin at SRC and me working the well,
I won't say the first record, but belly Dancing, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That was the first one. Oh okay, yeah, I worked
that record. So I always, you know, admire y'all chemistry man,
personally and professionally. So to see it come to the
point where you know, it's shit being said in the
media and y'all got to go to court, Man, that
shit hurt me. Dog, Yeah, I mean hurt. It's a
painful thing. But I think for the most part, it's
(31:15):
just been an incredible learning experience because this is Acon
and my first time around the track, you know, and experience.
In that magnitude of success and money, a lot of
things came to play, and a lot of people came
to play, and a lot of dividing came to play.
But the cancer, like you know, it starts from the inside.
(31:38):
So a lot of jealousy, envy jumped off from the inside.
And it's not just in my house. It's in other
people houses too. You know, it happens in a lot
of artists. You know, when we go back and we
look at the story, I just thought me and Acona
treated differently because I already had the answer, already seen
(31:59):
this are ready. I've been around Teddy Riley, Jean Griffin.
I've been around La and.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Babyface and Pebbles and go down that same road.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I saw success. I had success already. I can show
you how this is divided. I've been with Usher and
Janetta Patton. Janetta Patten says, I've been with Matthew Knows
and Beyonce. I've seen this. I even seen Michael Jackson
and Joe Jackson.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We know the game.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
We've seen this happen. So at the end of the day,
when you allow money.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
To dictate.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
How this really works, then that's when you know you've
been captured. And my whole thing is I have to
pray for my brother at this point because he's captured
and he doesn't understand the game. He thinking that, you know,
we're gonna run off with the money and go to Africa.
And what I'm saying to you is, we ain't from Africa.
(33:06):
Now we can go back into history and you can
say whatever, I'm from College Park, Georgia, and Nigga'm from
now ancestors and all that, we can talk about that,
but nigga, I'm from Atlanta and you from Saint Louis
by Way, New Jersey to Atlanta. Pem tight, At what
(33:29):
point what dollar am I did to get with? Y'all
had to go to court? He was like, all right, man,
it's like, come on, my nigga, Like was it millions?
I'm sure, but like they had to take this ship
to court and where did where how did this all
build up?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Where was it?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
I mean, because y'all were your business partners. Yeah, well
you became artists. You know, you grew in the situation
he was signing me as an artist, and then you know,
you graduate, so you know, you become an artist, then
you become you know, a business, business partner, you know
what I'm saying, and then you become a leader. And
all of that was still the tuolage and the knowledge
(34:07):
that I would give him along the way. So at
the end of the day, you can't stop. It's sometimes
just the outside influences that come in that separates it,
because everybody got away. You can get somewhere faster, and
if you're the kind of person that assessive and you
want to get there fast and you don't want to
(34:28):
take your time to get there, then you're subject to
listen to whatever somebody tell you before you do the
due diligence on the business.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So when it comes to.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
The whole universal and the whole aspect of it, it
was a lot of divide and conquer because of the money.
Everybody's trying to find a position. Whoever think that the
artist is the business, they get closer to the artists.
So the whole time they was trying to push me out. Anyway,
(35:00):
you're trying to take something that I think Akon is
trying to push you out of it, like it outside it.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
And his ears.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
And my point is he just fell for the trick.
It's a trick because it ain't about the money right now.
What we're planning for right now is if we build
a catalog together, we build history together. Let's say that's
a whole African movement going on that he's not running,
but he's the first. He had his finger on the
(35:30):
post of that. But when people see, when they see
the business, they see the model, they able to divide it.
So the best thing to do, let's divide how it starts.
So it's going to start with me and him, So
let's push divine over to the side. Now we got Akon,
we got it. We just con Yeah, but they don't
know what make Acon tick. They don't understand how to
pull the best out of Acon. It's not about pulling
(35:52):
the best out of Akon. Akon don't even I mean
as an art itinerary and trying to follow on our itenerary.
They don't even understand how that works for him. So
let alone the security God becomes the manager at the
end of the day, because he's the one that's there
the most. It happens in every situation. Let's take your
(36:13):
night for instance, security guard. Just because he was there,
he becomes the manager. It happens in everybody house and
not just in minds. The divide and Conker has always
been the number one thing when people become successful, because
people are insecure.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Did you get the money though?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
That that I made a lot of money and a
lot of money was stolen and then a lot of
money how much money you think was stolen? We talking
millions of millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
So but at the end of the day, did you
get that back from court? Divine?
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I haven't gotten my money yet. I'm still in court
and certain things I can't. I thought y'all settled out
and everything.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
We're still we're still in court.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Damn, pimp tight. But but you know, at the end
of the day, we're gonna pray for my brother because
so you know coming it ain't no divine to Akon
coming back together because y'all was a dream team. Man.
I mean, it's not even it's not even a coming
together because it's like I would always love Akon, but
I think Acon has grew up I don't know. I
(37:26):
don't know Acon. I don't know this Akon. I never
met that Acon. We all gonna grow up, we all
gonna turn into something. You know, as you get older
and you mature, how you handle success, it's gonna be
probably totally different than the way I handle success. So
I don't know this Acon. I have to reintroduce myself,
re meet this guy, re meet the people around them
to even know that that isn't something that my spirit
(37:48):
will allow me to even be a part of. I'm
in a different space in my life, you know what
I'm saying. So I don't know if that works for me.
But at the end of the day, it's always been
my brother. You want that bread, Well, now I want
business to be resolved, and we're gonna always make money.
I just think, I just think the debt of what
happened has to be cleared up because there's a lot
(38:10):
of people that play the role and there's a lot
of people that it's still all money, So that has
to be taken care of.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Him had a talk like a man. The man have
y'all got on the phone. It cost the talk.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It costs the talk. I could tell you the last
conversation we had. We're close to twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
It costs the talk. We can't just it's not a
phone call. It's not that.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
It's people and you know you got to call this person.
To call this person, then we have to have mediation.
It's not it's not a pick up the phone. I'm blocked.
I'm blocked.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If I call this right now, you can call.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Him, but I call him, it's gonna go straight to voicemail.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
It's blocked. I'm blocked on. I'm blocked on the IG None.
I'm blocked on IG.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
I'm blocked on. I can't call this phone. I can't
even call his sister phone. I'm blocked on there to.
I can't call Boo. I'm blocked on there too. And
these are people that I bred life into. These are
the people had zero dollars. These are people that I
bought vehicles and provide a shelter. But at the end
of the day, I won't even say it's all them.
(39:13):
I'll just say that sometimes the business can turn you
into this, and it ain't just happened in my house. Yeah,
it's a part of the business that you hate. But
for me, I just learned from it. It's it's a lesson.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm not bitter. I'm not I'm not I'm still moving.
God is still doing.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And for my brothers and them, you know, we we
we pray for that, you know, we pray that, you know,
somewhere along the line, that God deliver him. You know
what I'm saying, you know where it's not so obsessive,
you know, and you know, and and hopefully he can
really find this way back to the music, because you know,
(40:02):
he's a great talent. He's a great writer and producer.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
First, Oh, he's one of the best best ever do it. Yeah,
that's that's.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Originally what he started doing first before he came an artist.
And and then he you know, I was able to
package it the music. Even when you talk about you
work belly dancers. While you was working belly dance, I
knew that was the wrong record. Yeah, that wasn't the one.
(40:31):
But you you probably don't remember this. I remember us talking.
I was like, and you told me to be straight up.
You said, do you think this is a hit? I said, no,
it's not a hit. I thought it was a cool record,
but I didn't think it was a smash. But while
they was working that record, they thought that was the
money record. They thought that that would Who picked that
(40:51):
record Universal, I'm not even gonna says collect a collective.
It's a collective, you know, Steve ain't just picking records.
It's people that comes in there, like opinion and it's
an r. So at the end of the day, while
they was working that record, I was working Locked Up.
I took my dancing money, was pressing up records. I
took my dancing money with the record. That's the record
(41:14):
that took off, that took it there. Yeah, So at
the end of the day. But before that record, the
development of teaching him how to write songs, teaching him
how to produce, giving him the right subject matters, developing
him as an artist. All that came from me being
with Clive Davis, me being with La and Babyface, me
(41:37):
being with Teddy Riley, oh number one person, being with
Eric Sermon mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
So being with the Green.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
So he played a.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Very very him and BERNARDA. Alexander played a very very
instrumental role in Akon success at the very beginning. So
I had some of the best producers and executives in
the game that I learned from and gave the information
(42:05):
and other artists too, but it come was the one
that comes to.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Make a beneficiary. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Story Time with the Legendary Jerry's hosted by me, the
one and only, Jerry Clark. Music has been provided by
July the producer. If you haven't already, please please make
sure you subscribe to Storytime with the Legendary Jerry on
YouTube and wherever you listen to podcasts, and make sure
(42:36):
you follow us on all social media platforms at the
Legendary Jerry podcast. For more podcasts from my Heart Media,
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