May 6, 2021 • 46 mins
On today's episode, Jason kicks things off with a quick thought on the latest in the Aaron Rodgers soap opera going down in Green Bay. Rodgers comparing their general manager to infamous Chicago Bulls GM Jerry Krause isn't that big of a deal, but it does give some insight into how upset Rodgers is. Buckle up, Packers fans, we've just reached DEFCON-2. Later, Washington Post NBA writer Ben Golliver swings by to discuss new book 'Bubbleball' and what life was like inside the NBA's Orlando Bubble, why you absolutely cannot put an asterisk next to the Los Angeles Lakers' 2020 championship, why he wasn't surprised to see the Houston Rockets and the Los Angeles Clippers implode in Orlando, why he still doesn't trust the Clippers heading into these playoffs, why Nikola Jokic playing like the best player in the League makes the Denver Nuggets the one team in the West you'd least like to face, how the pandemic impacted the 2021 free agency class, why he expects the Portland Trail Blazers to try to re-shape their roster around Damian Lillard in the offseason, why the Milwaukee Bucks vs. Brooklyn Nets is the playoff series he most wants to see, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What's up, straight Fire, Fam,
it's your boy, Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire, Thursday, May six.
Hope everybody's having a splendid week. We have a bomb ass. Yes,
I'm gonna get in a cuss word early in this
podcast interview with the one and only Ben Goliver. He
(00:29):
covers the NBA for the Washington Post, and more importantly,
he wrote a book that I think you're gonna like.
It's about life in the bubble. He covered the bubble
for the Washington Post. A lot of good stories. Yes
he was there, ren Rayjon Rondo's brother went at Russell Westbrook.
Yes he was there, and boy does he have stories.
(00:49):
I mean listen that you are really gonna like this
interview Ben Goliver. Smart guy. We also delve into his background.
I bet you didn't know there are some smart reporters
out there covering the b A with the Johns Hopkins
was a high school valedictorian. Yeah, we'll get to the
interview shortly. I just want to off the top real quick. No,
I'm not addressing to all the forty Niners fans tuning
(01:11):
in waiting to hear when I'm gonna address the bombing.
I mean, this is how crazy the forty Niners fans
are bombing me right now for my Trey Lance Mac
Jones take and Kyle Shanahan versus John Lynche in the
front office. Okay, my daughter made a friend a couple
of years ago in preschool and her dad is a
big forty Niners fan, and they live out here near us,
(01:34):
but their families are from Italy. So when the pandemic hit,
they decided, you know, we're getting out of here. They
went to Italy. After it cooled out in Italy, they
haven't come back. Okay, he's in Italy. I wake up
this morning, Hey Jason, what's up? And he says, you know,
I see his name on the text. Blah blah blah.
(01:54):
Hope you're well. We're in Italy. Hey, so about the
forty Niners what? And I'm I haven't talked to this guy,
I don't know a year and a half. And he
hears about forty Niners fans versus me and text me
to find out what's going on. So forty Niners fans,
you just gotta have to chill. I will address it
more tomorrow. Okay, that's what I'll do. I'll talk about
forty Niners and the Kyle Shanahan, Trey Lance mac Jones stuff,
(02:16):
and yes, the Michael Lombardi comments, the Todd mcshaye comments,
the Adam Schefter, the Ian rappaports. There's a lot. We'll
get into that tomorrow. But before Ben gallieray, I wanted
to address Aaron Rodgers. Guys, I think we're probably def
con too. Is that safe to say. I don't know
if it's de Con one yet, but two stories popped yesterday.
(02:36):
We're moderately interesting. Number one Brett Farve, who loves to
wedge his name just crowbar his name there into anything.
It's like, Brett Farve is the dude who's friends with you,
and you know, you and your boys roll up to
meet some girls at a bar, and he always finds
a way to just get up in the middle of
it and really try to be the center of attention.
That's what Brett Farve does. And he's like, oh, my
(02:58):
gut tells me are and Rogers is done with the Packers.
He's like, why what are you doing speaking? Go away,
Brett farm Nobody cares about your opinion just because you
played with the Packers forever. You think like we care.
You have no inside information none, he texted. Apparently, Farve
texted Rogers, so you're gonna end up here there, everywhere,
(03:18):
and Rogers like, yeah, that's not gonna happen. Um. I
think the bigger story is Brett, not Brett. Far Aaron
Rodgers is on text chains with teammates, no surprise there.
But he is apparently slandering Brian Gootkonst the GM Goodakoonst Gosh.
I keep put your in that name. It's bad, it's
(03:39):
it's rough, um. And he's calling him. Jerry Krauss a
k A, the architect of the nineties Bulls dynasty, the
second greatest dynasty in modern NBA history, second to the
Curry Duran Warriors, of course, and Jerry Krauss, of course,
(03:59):
was the object of scorn from Michael Jordan's and Phil
Jackson endlessly. I mean they they would not stop the
bombing when the Bulls were winning titles. They just hated Krause.
A lot of it had to do with some of
the Krouse moves. He traded away Charles Oakley, who was
Jordan's boy, and Krauss went against Jordan. Jordan's wanted him
(04:23):
to uh in the draft, take Johnny Dawkins from Duke,
and Kross was like, no, no thanks, I'm going for
Brad Sellers. And of course brad Sellers gets to the bulls.
Michael Jordan's just goes at him hard, made life tough
on him, and then brad Sellers gets traded because he
was a bust um and crowd. It's weird. Krauss is
(04:44):
a smart basketball guy. He had a great eye for talent.
Brad Sellers John at Dunkins. Notwithstanding, remember there's a guy
did identify Scottie Pippen. Okay, um, you know got Horace Grant,
h B. J Armstrong. I mean he picked good guys,
Tony Kokach. The problem is he was not a people person.
And this is what Aaron Rodgers is really getting out.
(05:04):
Of course, all the sports media people freaked out because
they were like, oh, Rogers just taking shots at a
dead guy. Jerry Krauss, who won six titles, will wait
a sec Okay, Jerry Krauss had an eye for talent.
That being said, he had horrible people persons skills. Michael
Jordan's hated him. Phil Jackson hated him. Scottie Pippen hated
(05:27):
him like Krause did not know how to deal with people.
That was his problem. And I think Brian gudakunst the
GM is at that level. Folks were starting to see
people take sides within the Packers. Okay, first of all,
the coach La Fleur is almost like and again I'm
(05:48):
maybe I'm going drawing a conclusion here, but it feels
like he's distancing himself from the GM, especially regard to
the Jordan's love pick, because that apparently is what put
Rogers over the edge. And since then he's apparently been
telling Packers players who are going to be free agents, Hey, guys,
I don't know if I'm gonna be here. Just so
you know, I don't want you signing a big deal.
I may not be here. Now that being said, bok
(06:10):
tr Rogers is guy who is his left tackle protector,
went to the Kentucky Derby with him. Even if Rodgers
is doing that like telling guys, I may not be here,
Bore signed a big deal right uh, right before his injury,
so like, let's not go overboard with that. I think
the slandering the GM on text chains with teammates is interesting,
(06:34):
mostly because I'm assuming, uh, one of the players on
the text chain like told his agent and then the
agent leaked it to the media. But this does feel
like we're a deaf conto with Aaron Rodgers. And I
will just say Rob Gi loves to feed me the
numbers for how the podcast is doing. And Aaron Rodgers
has been very, very very good for business. So we're
(06:55):
gonna just drive this Aaron Rodgers train all summer long
until there is a RA solution. You guys can't get enough.
A lot of new listeners. Hello people. Alright, without further ado,
let's get to Ben Goliver of the Washington Post. Jason
likes to think he knows everything when it comes to sports.
(07:16):
I know what sports dance want, But for everything he doesn't.
He knows a guy who does. Let's just say I
know a guy who knows a guy he knows another guy.
Let's welcome into straight fire. A reporter covering the NBA.
He recently wrote a book because he was in the
bubble Holy Cow for months on end. I can't wait
(07:36):
to hear about that. He's currently at the Washington Post,
Ben Goliver, Ben, how you doing, man? I'm doing very well. Man.
It's great to be here, Like I was just telling
you a minute ago, but following your career every step
since the early Big Lead days, so it's awesome to
chat with you and catch up. Yeah, I want to
say I made a run to try to hire Ben
at the Big Lead when he was like at Sports
(07:56):
Illustrated or maybe even before, were you before s I
at CBS Sports and I was writing Blazer's Edge out
in Portland, where I'm from. Yes, yes, we'll get to
Portland and Damian Lillard's comments later, but I want to
start with the book. It's called Bubble Ball, inside the
NBA's fight to save a season. First of all, is
this your first book? It's my first book, And look,
this was a passion project, man, And I was in
(08:17):
the bubble for ninety three days and like that was tough.
Then I came home, took one week off and basically
just chained myself to a computer and wrote for the
next two months to get my draft done. Um, you know,
there was another two month editing processors. So so we
were trying to get this thing out quick while it
was still fresh. And I wanted to write it when
everything that was going on in the bubble, whether it
was on the court or the off off the court,
(08:38):
of the social justice protests or you know, the public
health stuff was still kind of looming large in our lives.
I wanted all that fresh on my mind when I
was writing it, because I was just thinking book. You know,
ten fifteen years from now, basketball fans are gonna want
to know, like, how did Lebron win a title in
Disney World? Just makes no sense? And so I wanted
to make sure that this book was kind of that
time capsule. You know, well, wait a second, what if
you Orlando Magic make of now on that one? It
(09:01):
could make a run next year. Um. So I'm curious, though,
you know, we we've talked to people who were in
the bubble, Tania from the l A Times, who has
left the paper. But I am curious, like was it.
I mean this was a time still when COVID was
pretty new, right, it was like three or four months old,
So people were still scared about you know, uh, you know,
going to hotels, Like how was it for you? Overall?
(09:23):
I was freaked out for sure when I was getting
down there. I mean I was wearing a face mask
on the flight rubber gloves on the fly, like I
was super paranoid. I talked to a whole bunch of
doctors before I even went, just to ask him like
should I even go, Like is this a smart thing
to do? They reassured me that, look, you're probably gonna
be safer there than anybody else or anywhere else. But
you're still having those thoughts of like, well, what if
one player goes to a strip club like Lou Williams,
(09:45):
or orders post baids like Rashaun Holmes, or brings a
woman into his room like uh Daniel House. The whole
time you're you're just thinking like all it takes is
one guy. These guys are playing constantly, there could be
a really quick outbreak. And I'll tell you this too,
Like I kept doing interviews when I was there the
first week, and we were locked in our hotel room
for the quarantine, which was like a real mental challenge,
(10:06):
and you can't go out for any reason except to
get your notes swabbed by the by the COVID testers. Right,
I'm getting all these interview questions from like Germany, Australia,
and they're basically just asking like do you think you're
gonna die, like is there going to be an outbreak? So,
like I just when I was starting to get comfortable
down there, you're getting all these questions of like people
(10:26):
treating us like lab rats, and and kind of just wondering,
well this experiment work. But I'll say within about two weeks,
once we started getting the negative test back from everybody,
nobody tested positive. It was like this huge relief. But
at the same time, there was Big Brother everywhere. Man.
I was wearing a tracking device at all times that
would beat if I got too close to somebody. We
had the electronic bracelet to get into of our hotel rooms.
(10:47):
They used that to track us around the campus. On
top of that, we had four levels of security, NBA, Disney,
local cops, Sheriff's department. One time I was walking around
at night, a SUV rolled up on me and said, hey,
we need to see your credential. Um, you know, are
you supposed to be here. I'm glad I had it.
I don't know what would happen if I did it.
But I don't forget the infamous snitch line too, right,
(11:09):
Like if you're not on a mask, people could text
in and report on each other. So I was pretty
relieved to get out of there, to be honest, Like
it was hard and challenging for sure, but you know,
the Big Brother stuff did keep everyone safe, so on
that fact, it was a win. But that's really where
the mental challenges for me we're kind of taking place.
I'm kinda going off sports here, but what the Big
Brother stuff you're talking about is interesting because apparently in China,
(11:31):
that's like people just live with it. That just is
a deal. Like there's cameras everywhere, they know what you're doing.
How did you feel when they were tracking you everywhere?
You win every move you make. I mean, it's like
you could do much right. Well, I consider myself a
law abiding citizen. I'm not like I'm not getting up
to that much crazy stuff, right, But there was one
time where I was like doing laundry and the shared
laundry rooms that night, nobody's around. But I just thought,
(11:53):
oh my god, I forgot to wear a mask. For
whatever reason, just that day, I forgotten. So I went
sprinting back up to my hotel room of four flights.
The stairs grabbed it went right back down. I mean,
they were in my head like that basis, I was
really paranoid and you couldn't go in like to other
people's rooms, right, So my friend was like, hey, can
you come over and edit this story for me? I
was like, well, we gotta do this on zoom or
(12:13):
like I I don't even want them to know that,
like somehow they could track me with my bracelet or
my my monitor or whatever else. So they were definitely
in my head, you know, and hold on, hold on,
why couldn't you go in other people's rooms if you
guys were getting tested every day? Well, they just wanted
to make sure that every base was covered, right, so
they were they were really strict with the players. They
didn't want anyone coming into contact with the players indoors
(12:34):
basically other than their teammates, so that even the player
to player contact was super limited. But we would, you know,
potentially come into contact with players too, because in the
postgame press conferences, were there you know, six or seven
feet apart. So their their whole thing was indoor contact
is the way this thing spreads. So we've just got
to eliminate it all. So for like, you know, when
we were eating, you know, the tables were all spread out,
(12:54):
you know, we'd be sitting six eight ten ft apart.
A lot of times I was just eating alone a
lot of my meals because there was no real socialization
vibe to it. Now there's a little bit different. Outside
people would hang out by the pool. They'd smoke cigars.
The refs love cigars and they have big, sticky cigars
and just kind of unwinding after their game days. And
you know, people would drink and hang out, and there
was a few mixers and stuff like that, but almost
(13:16):
always it was outdoors because they were just very very
careful about that. I am curious. I mean, you don't
need to answer this, but you know you're not married.
So what do you think there were people, well, you know,
journalists male and female getting together. Had you heard any
rumors about that. You don't need to name names. I'm
not asking you to call your people out. I would
just say it was completely taboo. Like even with the
(13:37):
interviews with the players, like the Daniel House thing kind
of came out of nowhere because it was sort of
like everybody had agreed to like the giant like don't ask,
don't tell policy on all that stuff. Right, it was
just like, look, we're all in this together. You know
who knows what the cable television bills are gonna look
like at the end of the stay for certain people.
You know, I'm sure the I'm sure the WiFi is
getting taxed, you know what I mean at certain hours
(13:59):
of the night. But look, everybody was in it together
and I think there was more of like a mutual
respect on that front. But you know, who knows how
good the systems really were. But you know, we were
barred from the players rooms, and that's really what they
try to do is make bubbles within bubbles, So like
I couldn't go walk into the player's hotel without an
official escort. That only happened a couple of times. Um,
(14:20):
you know, other media members again, they're not supposed to
go into other people's rooms. There were a couple of
the players hotels that were actually out of our site completely.
We couldn't get over there. I think that's one of
the reason why Daniel hau has probably got into trouble
because the Rockets were the last team remaining in that hotel,
so he's probably thinking, like we're the King of the
Grand Fluoridian. There's nobody else there, nobody's watching kind of
sneaking a side door, and of course it didn't quite
(14:44):
go that way. Yeah, I guess I'm curious. Were you
at the Rockets Lakers game when Rondo got into it
with or or was it Rondo's brother and Westbrook? Correct, Yeah,
Rondo's brother called him trash from the sideline. There was
there was these big signs that said, look, you know,
you have to basically treat this almost like a golf tournament.
(15:04):
You know, you can politely clap and cheer, you can
even stand up if you want. But there wasn't supposed
to be any heckling. There wasn't supposed to be any negativity,
and the Rockets were just falling apart completely. In Westbrook's
doing his typical thing where he's like getting into his
own head. They're daring him to shoot. He's really frustrated
he can't hit a thing. They know they're about to lose,
and they also realized that probably their their whole team
(15:24):
is about to upload, you know what I mean. Daryl
Murray and Mike D'Antoni were gone not too long after
the end of the bubble, right, and so it was
clearly the end of a chapter. They were frustrated in
Westbrook went to the referees and it's like, you know
the rules, you know, you you got to get this
guy out of here. He's not supposed to be young
at us like that, and the referees, you know, talk
to security and they dragged him out of there. But
Rondo's brother was there because he was the head of
(15:46):
the barbers, like kind of coordinating the barbers on campus,
and so that's why he was one of the few
people actually to be allowed at these games. For the
most part, the crowd was like really respectful. Um, most
of the trash talk must happened on the court. You know,
I'll never forget brawn in that same series going after
Robert Covington, and you know, Covington was complaining that he
was being you know, too physical basically, and Lebron's like,
(16:07):
all you guys do is touch and grab. All you
guys do was hold, and he's basically telling him to
shut up and just play basketball and get off of him.
And you know, we can hear this stuff much more
clearly than I can hear that like a Staples And
I know, you go to a lot of Lakers game
at Stable Center right when we can hear some stuff
in that environment because the seats down there are great,
but in the empty gym with the playoff intensity, guys
(16:28):
really yelling. I mean, I'm amazed, Like Robert Covington even
could keep playing, like I don't know. If you during
that spot, Lebron's coming after you and just basically punking
you in front of all these people, I'd be like,
oh man, check me out, coach, Let's try again next half.
You know, I am curious, like you spent you spent.
You covered the NBA before the pandemic, you covered it
in the bubble, and you've covered it post pandemic. You know,
(16:51):
people want to try to ding that Bubble title for Lebron. Um.
What was the end was the basketball? Anything like it
is pre pandemic in the bubble, but put it in
all caps, exclamation point, underline, no asterisk period. You've got
to give this. You've got to give this title to Lebron.
(17:11):
A couple of reasons why. First of all, he was
the best player in the bubble. Anthony Davis was the
second best player in the bubble. Second of all, they
went through the playoffs sixteen and five. They rolled everybody.
I mean, there was some competitive series, but they took
care of their business. And then the other thing that
you can use to validate that result is look how
the teams responded to what happened in the bubble. If
all these teams were just throwing away this postseason and
(17:32):
saying it doesn't really matter. Do we see Philadelphia fire
their coach immediately and get a new president and trade
Al Horford. Do we see the Clippers part ways with
Clippers legend Doc Rivers and change a bunch of their
roster pieces. Do we see Houston completely turned everything over,
trade both their stars and their coach and their GM.
Do we see Milwaukee mortgage is entire future to get
Drew Holiday? Right? Um? I think when you're seeing all
(17:56):
of those impacts within like three months after the bubble
was over, right, I mean that the off season was
really short, that tells you they all treated it realistically
and they treated it like normal, And so for me,
I think the quality of play actually in the bubble
was really high. To no travel was the one thing
that everybody agreed was awesome about the bubble, right. The
players loved it because they got into a group. The
referees loved it, even though they missed the frequent flower
(18:18):
miles they were happy about it and there and meeting
guys like me loved it because you know, sometimes I'm
flying across country twelve times during the postseason, right back
and forth for these different series in the bubble, it's
like you've got to take a twelve minute shuttle bus
and you're right there to watch all the games. I
mean from an efficiency standpoint, you know, like you know,
guys like you and we grew up on the internet,
like efficiency is what it's all about, right, and working
(18:39):
from home has some real benefits because you know, we
can do things more quickly, line it all up. That's
kind of how it felt in the bubble too. It
was like they brought all these games like dropped them
in my lap, and it's like, hey, you get to
be Rihanna, you get to be Jack Nicholson sit in courtside.
You know. Yeah you mentioned the Clippers. Um, were you
at any of the games in their meltdown against Denver?
And you know, having seen what you've seen from them
(19:01):
this year, are they dramatically different or basically the same thing?
Now they have a new coach and a couple of
new players. But well, let me say my answer to
every question, were you at the game is yes. My
pride and joy was that I went to every single
game from the second round of the playoffs on in
every in every series. So imagine Jimmy Goldstein with the
private jet and all the connections. Even he couldn't do
(19:23):
that in the normal year because all these games were
in one spot, right, So like, I'm a crazy basketball junkie.
I'm like, I'm going all in with this. I'm just
gonna see every game and never Actually, you know comes
through in the book too, because I could do a
whole chapter on the Clippers and have said, well, look,
I was at all their games along the way. For me,
it was obvious they were about to crack. About halfway
through that series, there were some early warning signs with
(19:44):
Kauai really just not rising to the moment. I think
it was in game game two of that series. It
was and everybody was kind of looking around, like, wait
a minute, where's our en court leader? What's going on here?
After Game six, Kauai gets asked point blank by reporter
in Los Angeles on the zoom call are you guys choking?
And he doesn't say no, He's just like, uh, you
kind of like called himself and was like, you know,
(20:05):
kind of mumbled out a bit. And I'm sitting there
thinking like, man, this guy just got you know, his
entire reputation checked right here in front of everybody. We're
all sitting there and thinking, okay, well, how is he
going to respond? If there's ever going to be that
Game seven moment where you're like, screw you reporter for
calling me a choker, Like, you know, screw everybody who's
doubting me. That's gonna be it, right, Like, imagine if
somebody called Lebron right now at this stage of his
(20:26):
career at choker, or a Damian Lillard, Like, look how
Damian Lillard responded to the Clippers trash talk. He comes
out and puts up like sixty points. It has this
crazy run through the bubble right so um and just
not really a big competitive response for the Clippers. I
was convinced they were ready to go home. They weren't
the only team, you know, the Sixers wanted to get
out of there. They kept talking about how they missed
the Philadelphia arena, and We're all sitting there saying, come on, guys,
(20:48):
nobody has home court here. You know, everybody's everybody's missing home, right. So,
you know, for the Clippers, in terms of how they've evolved, um,
the trading of Lou Williams and the letting go of
Montrez Harrold, I think was important. They were stuck in
between kind of an identity crisis where there was that
previous team that had been run by all those blue
guys and the bench guys and the Stars coming in.
(21:10):
They never quite meshed it properly in year one, and
now this year it's the Stars team and they've got
some more supporting cast members. I like the Rondo edition
for them. It should give them a little bit more. Um.
You know, I guess guts in these tough moments, but
I still don't trust them. They're very reliant upon the
three point shot. They don't have guys who get to
the basket a lot. They don't have guys who get
to the free throw line a lot. And if your
(21:31):
stars are just jump shooters, you're going to be really
inconsistent in the postseason. That's kind of how I see them.
But look, the door is open right now. You know,
the Lakers are kind of struggling. If you can't run
through it now, right if you can't take advantage of
this opportunity. When are you gonna do it? That's a
great point. I I do. I just wonder, like you said,
like reliant upon the three? Right? So I mean essentially, like,
(21:52):
are Reggie Jackson, Pat Beverley and Morris gonna come through
from deep if Paul George and kau I don't. And
we know Paul struggled in the post season um since
his early days with the Pacers. Absolutely, and then are
those guys are gonna trust them? Right? Like you get
halfway through a series and let's say Reggie has like
a one for seven night in game two, right, and
you're Paul George and you're Kauhi Leonard and the way
(22:12):
that the world is on your shoulders and you're thinking, Man,
we can't go out like this again. Do I really
want to kick to Reggie when I'm open? Or do
I want to put this out my own shoulders? Paul
George did that in Indiana a lot. You know, they
get into tough situations and he would always want the ball.
Remember that huge press conference fiasco he had where he's like,
I've got to have the ball for the final shot,
no matter what. In that series, against Lebron, So he
(22:32):
wants to be that guy. But the problem is, you know,
they just weren't those guys and keep moments last year.
And you know, to me, that's where the getting to
the free throw line stuff is so important. The Lakers
Stars do a great job of that, Chris Paul, Devin Booker.
Those guys can get to the free throw line. For Phoenix,
yokich Man, he's got every trick in the book, and
he can get to the free throw line when he
needs to unclunch moments. And so is Kauai gonna be
(22:54):
okay with eighteen footers every single time down or Paul
George hitting those deep you know, off the Gibil three's
that he likes to go to. Is that a sustainable formula?
I'm not sure. By the way, I question their defense too,
like do they have somebody to match up with really
skilled biggs. I'm sure you watched that game last week.
Yoki killed Zobach, I mean, just absolutely destroyed him, turned
him inside out in that game. I don't know if
(23:16):
they have a better matchup where Sergei Bakam and They've
got some real questions. Fox Sports Radio has the best
sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our
shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the
I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live.
Who do you think currently is the is the best
team most likely to come out of the West given
(23:36):
the injuries? You know, Jamal Murray, Lebron, a d all that.
So I'm really big on being deferential to the teams
that have earned it. So I usually give the benefit
of the dodge the Lakers. They've got me nervous here
this last week, though. I mean Lebron's ankle and his
comments about the ankle are very concerning to me because
he needed to be in a ramp up mode right now,
and if he's not right, like if the ankle is
(23:56):
not right, the Lakers title defense is not right. It's
as simple that right. And Anthony Davis has been pretty
inconsistent too. Um, I would still defer to them, but
I think the team, you know, honestly that people don't
want to face his denver. I could gush about Yoki
all day long. I think this guy deserves even more
credit than he's gone. He's gonna win m v P.
But I think that we need to start including him
(24:16):
and possibly being the best player in basketball conversation. Now
you look at Lebron, Katie Janice Steph. Those are the
guys who typically get into that conversation. Right now, you
look at Yokich is all around offensive impact, How he
can make his teammates better, how he can cover up
for injured guys like Jamal Murray. They've just been absolutely rolling.
He can score it himself. Um, I understand the defense
(24:37):
is going to be a question mark, but look, he's
average at least on defense, and uh, he makes up
for it on offense. To me, I just think that
he's a monster mismatch for a lot of these teams
in the playoffs, I wouldn't want to face them. I'd
be more afraid of Denver honestly than Phoenix or Utah
at this point. Whoof Okay, I don't think I'm there
with you yet. On Denver, I mean, they just what
(24:58):
what what I saw against the Lakers the other I
was they basically just have two guys. It's your kitchen porter,
Like I don't know who the third guy is, Aaron Gordon?
Is it me or just does he look like he's
not confident offensively? Well, he's actually been pretty good for
them since he's come over, but he's not the big
time volume score three. He's not Kuzma, you know what
I mean, where he's gonna come in and light you up.
I will say this about the Nuggets. The Lakers are
(25:20):
there kryptonite. Anthony Davis is yr Kichs kryptonite. Like he's
the one guy. We saw that in last year's Western
Conference Finals where Davis's versatility and defense can really bother
your kitchen. Their defensive schemes really bother him too, where
they trapped and like they forced him to kind of
beat them. But like, if I'm saying first round matchup,
if I'm the Nuggets, I'm feeling good about any team
they might face in the first round. And you know,
(25:42):
if the Lakers were to get knocked out early, I
feel like the door is kind of open for them.
But now I'm with you, like, look, they have no
defensive matchup. Really that's great for Lebron or Anthony Davis
on the other end. And so you saw Lebron get
into a lot of the physical old man stuff, turnaround jumpers,
put his head down and those guys just physically. Aaron
Gordon is a nice defensive player, um Paul Millsap, you know,
(26:02):
no chance. I mean maybe five or five years ago,
but even then, you know, so yeah, even then in Atlanta,
Lebron made him look back exactly. So those are just
really tough individual matchups for them. But in terms of
the non Lakers teams, like if it was Clippers versus Nuggets,
I'm taking Nuggets. I mean they've beat up multiple times
heads up this season, and Yokis just kills their centers
like every single time. So I'm looking forward to what
(26:25):
he could do. I also love Yoki and that there's
a playoff version of him where he kicks his game
up another notch. It's not playoff p right like playoff jokers.
A real deal. I mean, this guy is a We'll
look back at his numbers against Portland San Antonio a
couple of years ago, you know, throughout last year's postseason,
he puts up monster, monster numbers. Yeah, but I don't know, Ben,
how much of that has to do with playing alongside
(26:45):
Jamal Murray, who can go for forty or fifty at
the drop of a hat. I mean, we haven't seen
him without Murray, but you know the way Michael Porter Jr.
Shooting the three is crazy, I will say, Ben, if
you look at the gambling odds, denver of the top
five is the longest shot to come out of the West.
See what happened. You do nothing about gambling, but go
for it. Look, I mean, Utah is good too, um,
(27:08):
and they've been really consistent. But you know, I actually
think like Gobert is almost easier to exploit in the
playoffs than a guy like Yoki, And if they go
head to head, Yokich kills Gobert to um, you're right
on Murray though. Look, it's gonna really reorient their offense
because you're gonna be able to trap and double Yokich
at will whenever you want, because you don't have that
backcourt scoring partner. And Murray I called him the m
(27:29):
v P, the most bubble player, Like he was the
guy who symbolized the bubble better than anybody last year,
and so that that was just an absolutely brutal hit
for them. But I still think like they've been playing
well without him, Like I mean, it's almost not quite undefeated,
but pretty close and a big reason why his porter
stepped up. He can get a shot anywhere. And you know,
if you leave him. You know Yokis is gonna find him.
(27:49):
And then Gordon's a great cutter. You know he'll get
to the basket. Yokis will just get him a lot
of easy points. So um, I would just say be
quickly and be careful, don't ride off the Nuggets yet.
I guess that that's my real point here. You haven't
mentioned Phoenix, Ben, and I have to say, like for me,
they match up great with the Clippers with Bridges a
good defender, and Jake crowd are really experienced player on
the wing. I know they don't have playoff experience and
(28:11):
Monty Williams has never won a playoff series, but I
think they've got the best backcourt in the West with
CP three and Booker, and they have a big guy too.
I guess kind of sort of match up with with
Yoki in eighton worry On Phoenix, I think that kind
of as sleepers, right, Like I think that they match
up better with every team but the Lakers. So if
somebody else can handle the Lakers for them, then I
(28:34):
think their odds dramatically improved. Like I think you can
get by with Crowder and Bridges in that front line
against the Clippers, start forwards, but not the Lakers start forwards.
I mean, eight is just too long for anything they're
gonna throw at him. And then Lebron is too physical
for bridges. It's almost like they need the other bridges
out in Charlotte's body to go with Miles uh Phoenix
is bridges is game like, combine them into one bridges
(28:55):
and then you're gonna be able to stop Lebron. Maybe. Um.
The other thing too, is with Chris Paul. I mean, look,
he's gonna have to ramp his minutes up, keep the
efficiency up, and execute lighting games. That's been a problem
for him in previous postseasons, and we see he kind
of hits a wall usually around the second round. So
that's just, you know, another concern that I would have.
But they've been awesome. Money is right there in the
Coach of the Year. Makes you can make a strong
(29:16):
case for him or Quinn Snyder or TIBs out in
the Eastern Conference, and I think they kind of like
being sleepers by the way. I think they like, you know,
guys like be ignoring them because they could just keep
doing their things. That's fine, good for them, I'll add,
I'll add a ship to their shoulder. Yeah, Sun Snuggets
is weird. They haven't played it looks like since January,
like early January, and you know the Suns haven't seen
(29:38):
them without Murray, I don't. I know, you have to
kind of walk before you can run in the NBA playoffs,
So the Sun's theoretically first time in the playoffs in
eleven years. They got no chance, but West does feel
wide open, right, I'm with you though, bust up, go ahead. No,
I was gonna say no question. And actually the last
time those two teams played, I think Booker was injured,
so your ki went nuts. But it was one of
(29:59):
those things where you know, Phoenix's roster is probably gonna
be in a better spot now than it wasn't January.
So I think they're going into that series. If we
were to match up like that, probably second round. I
think Phoenix would go in there with profidence too, just
because you know, they all really buy into Chris Paul.
He's got to be all NBA second team this year.
I can't quite get him into like the top three
or four m v P conversation. I know Charles Barkley
wants to get there. I can't do that. But All
(30:20):
NBA second team for sure. Um, I want to wrap
up the West with a guy you covered. Um, you
were a Blazer's Edge of blog. Now did you start
the website? No? I I My first sight actually I started,
was called Draft Kevin Durant, and my whole goal was
to try to convince the Blazers to take k D
over Ode in two thousand seven. And you know, I
was young, and I was young and egotistical. This is
(30:41):
on blog spot, you know, and I'm thinking I'm gonna
be able to convince these guys to do it, and
they and of course it didn't go that way, and
I was crushed and I was like, well, what should
I do now? And luckily there was a site starting
up called Blazer's Edge have been around for a year
or two. This is back in two thousand seven. I
was able to kind of, um, you know, communicate with them,
get in touch with the Blazers, get game credential, and
(31:01):
so I covered the team for you know, probably five
six seven years, just going to home games, kind of
doing as like a moonlighting thing as I transitioned into
NBA writing, So I know that you're doing as you
as your other job. So I was just sales and
marketing for a small business in the Portland area. We
sold like bike racks, and it was really good experience
because it was mostly online, you know, so I got
you know, it was kind of uh, you know, there
(31:22):
are a lot of crossover Like I have a podcast now.
It's a lot of the marketing stuff we do with
the podcasts similar to what I was doing back in
my day job ten years ago. You know, that's pretty cool.
So you went from that to writing for a blog,
to Sports Illustrated, to the Washington Post to a book
on the bubble. I mean, it's been a run, man.
Then what a run? That's like the thirteen years. I mean,
(31:43):
you know, I'd say we're so bad at predicting the
future because if somebody had told me five years ago
that I would be in Los Angeles at FS one
and doing all this stuff, I would have been like,
come on, Gibriel, you know, oh yeah, you know, five
years now, here's what's happening. I have a podcast and
radio and all this stuff. I mean, if somebody told
you ten year ago you'll be at the Washington Post
writing a book on the NBA, be honest, Ben, You're
(32:04):
you would have laughed him out of the room. Right. Well,
I don't know if you feel like this. Sometimes I
feel like I'm Forrest Gump. You know. It's just like
I just keep falling into these historic situations where it's
like I'm just wandering around aimlessly. Like honestly, I never
really went out and saw jobs, like things just kind
of filling in my lap. But I know that sounds
like kind of goofy. And I talked to young journalists
and They're like, well, how did you do it? And
I was like, I still have no idea, Like I
feel like, I mean, it was hard work, obviously, I
(32:26):
was working around the clock and just throw my whole
heart into this stuff. And I remember you'd be posted
ten times on the Big Lead. So it was kind
of like back in the day, it was about, hey,
we got to make sure that people know who you are,
and you have to be really self motivated and kind
of entrepreneurial in a way. Um. But no, I never
saw the book coming. Even when the pandemic shot down,
you know, like like last March for example, I really
(32:47):
wanted to get something out of this time, you know,
because there was no games, and so I started committing
to fitness and trying to lose weight. I just trying
to like turn a negative into a positive. And within
about two weeks of being in the bubble, I was
approached by an agent in the book publisher saying, hey,
this could be a book. Are you interested? And I
was like, yes, absolutely, of course, and um, you know
it was it was daunting. You know, I had never
done it before. I was pretty naive in terms of
(33:09):
how the process would work. But I feel so grateful.
I mean, like I just I love always love basketball,
you know, Like I said, I started on blog spot
in two thousand and seven, and it's just you just
keep taking one step go a time. It doesn't really matter.
You know, whatever your long goal, long term goal is,
forget it. You're never gonna get it exactly where you
want it, right, So you just keep making that progress
day after day, and eventually you get a pretty good place.
(33:30):
That's kind of how I view it. It's where I
had read this. Uh, some really smart guy talked about
the different kinds of luck. You know, there's many different
kinds of luck. People think, oh, you got lucky, you
won the lottery. Yeah, that's one kind of luck, but
there are other kinds where if you just keep stirring
stuff up, you know, like you like, I'm going to
write about the NBA. I'm going to start a blog
about draft Kevin Durant, and that stirred up interest in Boom,
(33:53):
you're at Blazer's Edge and then you are writing about
the NBA for Blazer's Edge, and s I noticed is
like you can say it's key, but like everything lined
up and you have to still deliver, you know, like
that's pretty cool, man. I think that's awesome. Word book
in sixty days words a day. You know, I'm just
grinding from seven pm to midnight while trying to cover
from my day job, you know, NBA free Agency, NBA
(34:16):
Draft and all that stuff too. So it was a
crazy two months stretch for me. But I will also
saying I was pretty privileged. I had an awesome writing
education at Johns Hopkins University, which I feel like helped
me stand out from the crowd because it was creative writing,
non journalism. So that got me into a situation where
maybe my voice is a little bit different than the
typical sports writer. And then I was also lucky enough
to be able to have a day job, Like I mentioned,
(34:37):
so I could kind of moonlight. You know, if I
had to try to live off my writing the first
couple of years, you know, I would have been homeless, right,
and that's just when net works. So wow. So JOHNS
Hopkins huh yes, sir, Yeah, I know people know it
as a medical school, but they actually have an amazing
creative writing program and I owe so much to them.
Like it's it's been fun to hear from some of
like the old professors because you know, the Post is
in d C. So a lot of people read the
(34:57):
post back there, and you know it just for me,
it's like a full circle moment. If you had told
me in college that I'd be writing a book, I
would have said, no. All these other kids here in
this class, they're the ones who are gonna be writing books.
You know, you have that kind of imposter syndrome a
little bit, but um, you know, it feels really cool
to to get it done. So would you have like
a four oh coming out of high school and stuff?
Don't get me bragging here, Yeah no, uh, Vitorian, I
(35:20):
was a valutoria my high school. Yet. Oh that's amazing, dude. Wow, congratulations,
what was it a big class or or kind of
small or what. So I think beer in high school.
So Beaverton is well known as the home of Nike
International World Headquarters for night, so I grew up getting
all that swooge propagana just pumped straight into my my veins. Um.
But I think at the time Beaverton might have been
(35:41):
the largest public high school in the state. Um. You know,
Oregan is not the most populous state, but it's right
up there with one of the biggest high schools in
the state. Yeah. So, uh, you know, let me dive
a little deeper while I've got you here. So were
your parents writers at all in any capacity? Um? No,
So my mom was a lawyer and then she became
a school teacher. Um. Actually, I think I got the
books from my grandma. She was a live brand, so
(36:01):
she'd forced feed books to me when I was really young,
so I actually dedicated it to her. Unfortunately she passed
away a few years but like you know, I give
her the credit I think for for my interest in writing,
and my mom as well. She was always you know,
throwing books at me pretty much my whole childhood. And
then my dad's actually a computer programmer, and I think
I got some of the work ethics stuff from him,
some of the grinder aspect, because you know, the computer programmers,
(36:24):
it's like the old thing, like they got a two
leader bottle of mountain dew and they're just like flowing
away on a keyboard into like three am. I mean,
that was his life for twenty thirty years, you know,
I mean, just doing it for Intel. So I think
there's a little bit of both my parents in this project. Hopefully. Wow. Okay,
so now I'm understanding why Ben it's such a smart guy.
It all is starting to add up. I mean, wow,
(36:44):
what a what a life you've given lived? Been all right,
let's quickly go to the Eastern Conference. One more in
the West. Damian Lillard in Portland recently, Um, you know,
Chris Haynes had a piece, and I mean, you know
you you've covered a lot of NBA free agency and
every year for like the last decade, there's been a
huge name changing teams unhappy. That's what's driven the cycle.
(37:05):
And all of a sudden, Bradley Beal looks like he's
staying in Washington, Um, Karl Anthony Towns. Things have turned
around a little bit in Minnesota. I just wonder, given
what's going on in Portland, it looks like maybe a
tear down in some capacity is on the horizon. Any
chance Damian Lillard, who has been steadfast about not wanting
to join forces and stay in Portland, any chance that
(37:28):
he could be on the move from the Blazers. I'm
not sure I see it for Lily. Let me get
into that in a second. I want to make a
big picture point here though, with the free agency, because
you're right, there's a real drought here right now in
potential disgruntled stars who want to move, and it's pandemic related.
You saw a number of big names resigned contract extension
to talk about Lebron be honest, Anthony Davis. The list
(37:49):
goes on. Those guys wanted to lock up their money early,
no matter what happens here in terms of losses and
finances whatever. The stars wanted to lock in and say
I want my financial certainty no matter what. Right. So
that is naturally going to create a situation where you
just have fewer stars available. That's driven up the price
for guys like James Harden and Drew holiday Um in
some of these previous deals. But it's gonna carry over
(38:10):
into this summer too, where it's gonna be hard to
find big time talent. Right now, here's the thing with Lillard.
I mean, everybody knows he's been super duper loyal to
Portland the whole way. I think he's just come into
a crossroads where it's like we've been trying it with
Terry Stott's and the same group and CJ. Mccollumn for
a while. Um, there was one run to the Western
Conference finals, but how likely is that here of the
(38:31):
next couple of years to repeat that luck. We need
a little bit more investment. It might be time to
go for a little bit more. And it's really hard
for a small market team like Portland to keep up
with the Jones, is right, Like if they want to
go trade for a Bradley bal what's that cost them,
you know, four or five first round picks. You're kind
of mortgaging your future. So there's a conflict there between
what's best for the superstar and what's best for the organization,
(38:52):
and they're gonna have to sort that out. I think
it's more grumbling than anything. I mean, ultimately, he's living
a great life up there. He's got a contract that's
about to pay him fifty million. He's got a Toyota
dealership in Portland's you know, he's got the rap career.
You know, he's the cover of every media guy at
every Jersey. I mean, I think he really likes being
the big fish in a small pond, so I would
be surprised if he moved on. I think this is
more about, like, hey, I want to see more urgency
(39:14):
from the ownership group in the front office. And keep
in mind too, the owner is the sister of the
former owner who passed away, you know, pretty abruptly. Paul Allen,
like he was the Microsoft billionaire, So his sister's basketball
is not her passion, right, She just inherited this team
and with along with the rest of his estate. So
there is some question like will she eventually sell the team?
How long is she going to be committed to it?
(39:35):
You know, when you're Paul Allen, you know he did
not care what about the luxury tax. He'd be spending
millions and millions because he was one of the richest
gun in the world. Now your sister comes in and
it's like, well, if we're only making the first round
of the playoffs, Like are we still wanting to spend
this big money. I think that becomes a little bit
of a question too. So Poland has some stuff to
to sort out. But I'll tell you this, I think
Damian Lillard is gonna be the last guy's standing there.
(39:56):
You know, they'll trade everybody else before they trade him,
you know, So maybe they' out of package McCollum and
Nerk or whoever they can in exchange for some some
star in some capacity, I mean Karl Anthony. Towns will
be good fit. I think they're with Lillard, but chance
of getting him or slim right, Yeah, I would just
say it's time for a shake up, probably for them.
I think for Minnesota, their decision on Towns could come
(40:17):
down to where their pick lands. Right, Like, if you
get the number one or number two pick this year,
or even number three pick, you could have Mobile that's
a potential Towns replacement, you know, from USC, or you
could go grab Jalen Sells haven't be your new franchise
point guard, and now you go forward with Suggs and
Edwards as your backcourt and you just kind of move forward,
right if you don't keep your pick, and they could
(40:38):
have to send their pick to Golden State if it
lands outside the top three. Right, if you don't get
your pick, you better keep Carl Towns, because then what
are you selling your fan base? Right? Like, so, I
think that some of their decision making process is going
to rely upon um where their pick lands. But I
also think like they really wanted to work with Cat there.
It was personal last year just knowing some of their
front off executives pretty well. I mean, when they tried
(40:59):
so hard to help Cat's mom when she was going
through the COVID situation, the whole organization felt the weight
of her death, and so they want to stand by
him as long as possible, as closely as possible. It's
just a unique situation emotionally, right, And um, I think
for that reason it's probably best to just chill on
the Cat talk. But you know that draft pick is
going to be a wild card certainly. All right, we'll
(41:21):
wrap up with this one, ben Um in the East.
You know, the Bucks beat the Nets and the Books
again it's regular season. Who knows the Nets really tried
hard in that game, though Durant played I think forty
minutes Kyriet nine. I get the I get the vibe
here that the Bucks perhaps are better as underdogs. The
(41:42):
last two years they've been, you know, the number one seed,
the favorites, and they've kind of collapsed. This year, they're
the underdogs. Everybody's talking nets, everybody's talking six ers. Is
this the year the Bucks breakthrough? You're right on the money,
And there's a big theme in my book. Um, they
did not handle the pressure of being favorites well at
all in the bubble. I mean, it really got to them,
especially of Joanna's He was just wearing the burden of
that on his shoulders. He's so much better cast as
(42:05):
the underdog because that's who he was his entire life,
going back to his childhood. Increase right, So, um, I
think they're gonna have an issue matching up once Harden's back.
So I would favor Brooklyn in that series. But I'd
say this, Brooklyn Milwaukee is the number one series I
want to see of any series in the entire postseason,
because you've got kd this quote unquote ring Chaser, big
market guy versus Janice, the loyal guy. You've got Katie,
(42:27):
the smoothest shooting forward ever probably in the history of
the sport, versus the honest who's trying to work on
his shop and he's a much more physical player. Um,
you've got teams that are you know, you've got the
glitz of Brooklyn and and New York versus the kind
of the Schlitz up there in the Milwaukee. Right. Oh wow,
what a rough It's almost like you've planned this the
(42:48):
Schlitz from Milwaukee. And look, I'll be honest, I use
that one before, but it's glitz versus Schlitz. I mean,
that's what we're talking about. A very natural story, right,
big market, small market and so um, and they're they're
playing styles are just so different. And in what the coaches,
You've got Coach Bud hot Seat, he's got to get
it done. They've got to make a deep postseason run.
Steve Nash, rookie coach. First couple of months, he was
(43:09):
shaky in late game situations in terms of how he's
drawn stuff up, where does the ball go to and
those kinds of matchups, has never played the postseason matchups
games before. And they really don't have a great defensive
answer for Janice. I mean, they're gonna have to figure
something out there. So um, I just think it's a
fascinating matchup. Milwaukee is gonna have a real shot. I
think three teams and they used to have a shot
to win the whole conference. But I'm taking Brooklyn based
(43:31):
on the star power. But they need Harden back for sure.
I mean, he's been awesome this year and without him,
they just look different. I can't wait to see how
Kyrie handles a post if they're down two to one
and he's only attempting eighteen shots or something. I I
you just know and employ it feels like an implosion
is near for Kyrie Irving, especially when Harden gets back. Well, See,
the thing is their chemistry this year has been amazing,
(43:53):
which was the biggest surprise of all of it. Right,
Like when the guys have been on the court, they've
played so well together, but they don't have the camaraderie
in the cokee you because they haven't been able to
all be healthy. So those kinds of questions you're describing,
it's gonna be straight in the frying pan. Right. It's like, Hey,
game three in a series, Harden has been back for
a week. You know, Milwaukee is like, you know, they're
they're finding a way to slow Katie down. So how
(44:13):
are we going to respond? And the answers are Hardened
or irving, right, Well, you can't be both. So who's
gonna be able to step up? It's it's gonna be juicy.
And the other thing too about Brooklyn. Everyone is going
to be rooting for them to fail as soon as
these playoffs hit. They're going to be that team. How
do they handle that? You know, Katie always has the
chip on his shoulder, goes back at Michael Rappaport on
social media, always engaged that kind of stuff. Hardened, I mean,
(44:37):
adversity in the playoffs has always been kind of his
achilling seal as well. And Kyrie, you know we saw
in Boston he was trying to guard be honest. I
mean it was a disaster his decision making in that series, right,
And that's the last time he's really faced postseason pressures.
So they're the team that I'm going to watch more
closely than any team in the entire league going in
his playoffs. And Kyrie got there before Nash, right yep,
(44:59):
and for Durant before Hardened, so he can I wonder
if he feels like, hey, I started this thing, this
is my team again getting in Kyrie said, is very difficult.
But anyway, Ben, we'll call that point real quick. I
mean they used to call it seven eleven. That was
Kyrie's nickname for him and Katie, right because their jersey numbers.
It's like, well it's not seven eleven when you also
got harded. I mean, you gotta fit that number into
(45:20):
your little bix. And so I do think you know,
Kyrie viewed it as like this is me and Kevin show.
And you know, now you got Blake Griffin, now you
got you know, Claxton's gotta play man. It's how you
got all these other new pieces. Brown has been great
for them. Um, you know, so it the world turn
for Kyrie Irving, you know what I mean. It's switched
up a little bit. Definitely fun getting excited just talking
(45:41):
about this for the NBA playoffs, all right, he is.
Ben Golliver wrote a book. You should go check it out,
bubble Ball Inside the NBA's Fight to Save a Season.
Congrats Man. Book is out when to Yesterday Today, It's out.
It's everywhere in bookstores right now, Amazon, Barnes and Noble
Pals wherever you get your books. Nice alright, Ben, thanks
a lot, congratulations again and now we'll talk to you soon, alright,
(46:02):
Tickerman
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What's up, straight Fire, Fam,
it's your boy, Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire, Thursday, May six.
Hope everybody's having a splendid week. We have a bomb ass. Yes,
I'm gonna get in a cuss word early in this
podcast interview with the one and only Ben Goliver. He
(00:29):
covers the NBA for the Washington Post, and more importantly,
he wrote a book that I think you're gonna like.
It's about life in the bubble. He covered the bubble
for the Washington Post. A lot of good stories. Yes
he was there, ren Rayjon Rondo's brother went at Russell Westbrook.
Yes he was there, and boy does he have stories.
(00:49):
I mean listen that you are really gonna like this
interview Ben Goliver. Smart guy. We also delve into his background.
I bet you didn't know there are some smart reporters
out there covering the b A with the Johns Hopkins
was a high school valedictorian. Yeah, we'll get to the
interview shortly. I just want to off the top real quick. No,
I'm not addressing to all the forty Niners fans tuning
(01:11):
in waiting to hear when I'm gonna address the bombing.
I mean, this is how crazy the forty Niners fans
are bombing me right now for my Trey Lance Mac
Jones take and Kyle Shanahan versus John Lynche in the
front office. Okay, my daughter made a friend a couple
of years ago in preschool and her dad is a
big forty Niners fan, and they live out here near us,
(01:34):
but their families are from Italy. So when the pandemic hit,
they decided, you know, we're getting out of here. They
went to Italy. After it cooled out in Italy, they
haven't come back. Okay, he's in Italy. I wake up
this morning, Hey Jason, what's up? And he says, you know,
I see his name on the text. Blah blah blah.
(01:54):
Hope you're well. We're in Italy. Hey, so about the
forty Niners what? And I'm I haven't talked to this guy,
I don't know a year and a half. And he
hears about forty Niners fans versus me and text me
to find out what's going on. So forty Niners fans,
you just gotta have to chill. I will address it
more tomorrow. Okay, that's what I'll do. I'll talk about
forty Niners and the Kyle Shanahan, Trey Lance mac Jones stuff,
(02:16):
and yes, the Michael Lombardi comments, the Todd mcshaye comments,
the Adam Schefter, the Ian rappaports. There's a lot. We'll
get into that tomorrow. But before Ben gallieray, I wanted
to address Aaron Rodgers. Guys, I think we're probably def
con too. Is that safe to say. I don't know
if it's de Con one yet, but two stories popped yesterday.
(02:36):
We're moderately interesting. Number one Brett Farve, who loves to
wedge his name just crowbar his name there into anything.
It's like, Brett Farve is the dude who's friends with you,
and you know, you and your boys roll up to
meet some girls at a bar, and he always finds
a way to just get up in the middle of
it and really try to be the center of attention.
That's what Brett Farve does. And he's like, oh, my
(02:58):
gut tells me are and Rogers is done with the Packers.
He's like, why what are you doing speaking? Go away,
Brett farm Nobody cares about your opinion just because you
played with the Packers forever. You think like we care.
You have no inside information none, he texted. Apparently, Farve
texted Rogers, so you're gonna end up here there, everywhere,
(03:18):
and Rogers like, yeah, that's not gonna happen. Um. I
think the bigger story is Brett, not Brett. Far Aaron
Rodgers is on text chains with teammates, no surprise there.
But he is apparently slandering Brian Gootkonst the GM Goodakoonst Gosh.
I keep put your in that name. It's bad, it's
(03:39):
it's rough, um. And he's calling him. Jerry Krauss a
k A, the architect of the nineties Bulls dynasty, the
second greatest dynasty in modern NBA history, second to the
Curry Duran Warriors, of course, and Jerry Krauss, of course,
(03:59):
was the object of scorn from Michael Jordan's and Phil
Jackson endlessly. I mean they they would not stop the
bombing when the Bulls were winning titles. They just hated Krause.
A lot of it had to do with some of
the Krouse moves. He traded away Charles Oakley, who was
Jordan's boy, and Krauss went against Jordan. Jordan's wanted him
(04:23):
to uh in the draft, take Johnny Dawkins from Duke,
and Kross was like, no, no thanks, I'm going for
Brad Sellers. And of course brad Sellers gets to the bulls.
Michael Jordan's just goes at him hard, made life tough
on him, and then brad Sellers gets traded because he
was a bust um and crowd. It's weird. Krauss is
(04:44):
a smart basketball guy. He had a great eye for talent.
Brad Sellers John at Dunkins. Notwithstanding, remember there's a guy
did identify Scottie Pippen. Okay, um, you know got Horace Grant,
h B. J Armstrong. I mean he picked good guys,
Tony Kokach. The problem is he was not a people person.
And this is what Aaron Rodgers is really getting out.
(05:04):
Of course, all the sports media people freaked out because
they were like, oh, Rogers just taking shots at a
dead guy. Jerry Krauss, who won six titles, will wait
a sec Okay, Jerry Krauss had an eye for talent.
That being said, he had horrible people persons skills. Michael
Jordan's hated him. Phil Jackson hated him. Scottie Pippen hated
(05:27):
him like Krause did not know how to deal with people.
That was his problem. And I think Brian gudakunst the
GM is at that level. Folks were starting to see
people take sides within the Packers. Okay, first of all,
the coach La Fleur is almost like and again I'm
(05:48):
maybe I'm going drawing a conclusion here, but it feels
like he's distancing himself from the GM, especially regard to
the Jordan's love pick, because that apparently is what put
Rogers over the edge. And since then he's apparently been
telling Packers players who are going to be free agents, Hey, guys,
I don't know if I'm gonna be here. Just so
you know, I don't want you signing a big deal.
I may not be here. Now that being said, bok
(06:10):
tr Rogers is guy who is his left tackle protector,
went to the Kentucky Derby with him. Even if Rodgers
is doing that like telling guys, I may not be here,
Bore signed a big deal right uh, right before his injury,
so like, let's not go overboard with that. I think
the slandering the GM on text chains with teammates is interesting,
(06:34):
mostly because I'm assuming, uh, one of the players on
the text chain like told his agent and then the
agent leaked it to the media. But this does feel
like we're a deaf conto with Aaron Rodgers. And I
will just say Rob Gi loves to feed me the
numbers for how the podcast is doing. And Aaron Rodgers
has been very, very very good for business. So we're
(06:55):
gonna just drive this Aaron Rodgers train all summer long
until there is a RA solution. You guys can't get enough.
A lot of new listeners. Hello people. Alright, without further ado,
let's get to Ben Goliver of the Washington Post. Jason
likes to think he knows everything when it comes to sports.
(07:16):
I know what sports dance want, But for everything he doesn't.
He knows a guy who does. Let's just say I
know a guy who knows a guy he knows another guy.
Let's welcome into straight fire. A reporter covering the NBA.
He recently wrote a book because he was in the
bubble Holy Cow for months on end. I can't wait
(07:36):
to hear about that. He's currently at the Washington Post,
Ben Goliver, Ben, how you doing, man? I'm doing very well. Man.
It's great to be here, Like I was just telling
you a minute ago, but following your career every step
since the early Big Lead days, so it's awesome to
chat with you and catch up. Yeah, I want to
say I made a run to try to hire Ben
at the Big Lead when he was like at Sports
(07:56):
Illustrated or maybe even before, were you before s I
at CBS Sports and I was writing Blazer's Edge out
in Portland, where I'm from. Yes, yes, we'll get to
Portland and Damian Lillard's comments later, but I want to
start with the book. It's called Bubble Ball, inside the
NBA's fight to save a season. First of all, is
this your first book? It's my first book, And look,
this was a passion project, man, And I was in
(08:17):
the bubble for ninety three days and like that was tough.
Then I came home, took one week off and basically
just chained myself to a computer and wrote for the
next two months to get my draft done. Um, you know,
there was another two month editing processors. So so we
were trying to get this thing out quick while it
was still fresh. And I wanted to write it when
everything that was going on in the bubble, whether it
was on the court or the off off the court,
(08:38):
of the social justice protests or you know, the public
health stuff was still kind of looming large in our lives.
I wanted all that fresh on my mind when I
was writing it, because I was just thinking book. You know,
ten fifteen years from now, basketball fans are gonna want
to know, like, how did Lebron win a title in
Disney World? Just makes no sense? And so I wanted
to make sure that this book was kind of that
time capsule. You know, well, wait a second, what if
you Orlando Magic make of now on that one? It
(09:01):
could make a run next year. Um. So I'm curious, though,
you know, we we've talked to people who were in
the bubble, Tania from the l A Times, who has
left the paper. But I am curious, like was it.
I mean this was a time still when COVID was
pretty new, right, it was like three or four months old,
So people were still scared about you know, uh, you know,
going to hotels, Like how was it for you? Overall?
(09:23):
I was freaked out for sure when I was getting
down there. I mean I was wearing a face mask
on the flight rubber gloves on the fly, like I
was super paranoid. I talked to a whole bunch of
doctors before I even went, just to ask him like
should I even go, Like is this a smart thing
to do? They reassured me that, look, you're probably gonna
be safer there than anybody else or anywhere else. But
you're still having those thoughts of like, well, what if
one player goes to a strip club like Lou Williams,
(09:45):
or orders post baids like Rashaun Holmes, or brings a
woman into his room like uh Daniel House. The whole
time you're you're just thinking like all it takes is
one guy. These guys are playing constantly, there could be
a really quick outbreak. And I'll tell you this too,
Like I kept doing interviews when I was there the
first week, and we were locked in our hotel room
for the quarantine, which was like a real mental challenge,
(10:06):
and you can't go out for any reason except to
get your notes swabbed by the by the COVID testers. Right,
I'm getting all these interview questions from like Germany, Australia,
and they're basically just asking like do you think you're
gonna die, like is there going to be an outbreak? So,
like I just when I was starting to get comfortable
down there, you're getting all these questions of like people
(10:26):
treating us like lab rats, and and kind of just wondering,
well this experiment work. But I'll say within about two weeks,
once we started getting the negative test back from everybody,
nobody tested positive. It was like this huge relief. But
at the same time, there was Big Brother everywhere. Man.
I was wearing a tracking device at all times that
would beat if I got too close to somebody. We
had the electronic bracelet to get into of our hotel rooms.
(10:47):
They used that to track us around the campus. On
top of that, we had four levels of security, NBA, Disney,
local cops, Sheriff's department. One time I was walking around
at night, a SUV rolled up on me and said, hey,
we need to see your credential. Um, you know, are
you supposed to be here. I'm glad I had it.
I don't know what would happen if I did it.
But I don't forget the infamous snitch line too, right,
(11:09):
Like if you're not on a mask, people could text
in and report on each other. So I was pretty
relieved to get out of there, to be honest, Like
it was hard and challenging for sure, but you know,
the Big Brother stuff did keep everyone safe, so on
that fact, it was a win. But that's really where
the mental challenges for me we're kind of taking place.
I'm kinda going off sports here, but what the Big
Brother stuff you're talking about is interesting because apparently in China,
(11:31):
that's like people just live with it. That just is
a deal. Like there's cameras everywhere, they know what you're doing.
How did you feel when they were tracking you everywhere?
You win every move you make. I mean, it's like
you could do much right. Well, I consider myself a
law abiding citizen. I'm not like I'm not getting up
to that much crazy stuff, right, But there was one
time where I was like doing laundry and the shared
laundry rooms that night, nobody's around. But I just thought,
(11:53):
oh my god, I forgot to wear a mask. For
whatever reason, just that day, I forgotten. So I went
sprinting back up to my hotel room of four flights.
The stairs grabbed it went right back down. I mean,
they were in my head like that basis, I was
really paranoid and you couldn't go in like to other
people's rooms, right, So my friend was like, hey, can
you come over and edit this story for me? I
was like, well, we gotta do this on zoom or
(12:13):
like I I don't even want them to know that,
like somehow they could track me with my bracelet or
my my monitor or whatever else. So they were definitely
in my head, you know, and hold on, hold on,
why couldn't you go in other people's rooms if you
guys were getting tested every day? Well, they just wanted
to make sure that every base was covered, right, so
they were they were really strict with the players. They
didn't want anyone coming into contact with the players indoors
(12:34):
basically other than their teammates, so that even the player
to player contact was super limited. But we would, you know,
potentially come into contact with players too, because in the
postgame press conferences, were there you know, six or seven
feet apart. So their their whole thing was indoor contact
is the way this thing spreads. So we've just got
to eliminate it all. So for like, you know, when
we were eating, you know, the tables were all spread out,
(12:54):
you know, we'd be sitting six eight ten ft apart.
A lot of times I was just eating alone a
lot of my meals because there was no real socialization
vibe to it. Now there's a little bit different. Outside
people would hang out by the pool. They'd smoke cigars.
The refs love cigars and they have big, sticky cigars
and just kind of unwinding after their game days. And
you know, people would drink and hang out, and there
was a few mixers and stuff like that, but almost
(13:16):
always it was outdoors because they were just very very
careful about that. I am curious. I mean, you don't
need to answer this, but you know you're not married.
So what do you think there were people, well, you know,
journalists male and female getting together. Had you heard any
rumors about that. You don't need to name names. I'm
not asking you to call your people out. I would
just say it was completely taboo. Like even with the
(13:37):
interviews with the players, like the Daniel House thing kind
of came out of nowhere because it was sort of
like everybody had agreed to like the giant like don't ask,
don't tell policy on all that stuff. Right, it was
just like, look, we're all in this together. You know
who knows what the cable television bills are gonna look
like at the end of the stay for certain people.
You know, I'm sure the I'm sure the WiFi is
getting taxed, you know what I mean at certain hours
(13:59):
of the night. But look, everybody was in it together
and I think there was more of like a mutual
respect on that front. But you know, who knows how
good the systems really were. But you know, we were
barred from the players rooms, and that's really what they
try to do is make bubbles within bubbles, So like
I couldn't go walk into the player's hotel without an
official escort. That only happened a couple of times. Um,
(14:20):
you know, other media members again, they're not supposed to
go into other people's rooms. There were a couple of
the players hotels that were actually out of our site completely.
We couldn't get over there. I think that's one of
the reason why Daniel hau has probably got into trouble
because the Rockets were the last team remaining in that hotel,
so he's probably thinking, like we're the King of the
Grand Fluoridian. There's nobody else there, nobody's watching kind of
sneaking a side door, and of course it didn't quite
(14:44):
go that way. Yeah, I guess I'm curious. Were you
at the Rockets Lakers game when Rondo got into it
with or or was it Rondo's brother and Westbrook? Correct, Yeah,
Rondo's brother called him trash from the sideline. There was
there was these big signs that said, look, you know,
you have to basically treat this almost like a golf tournament.
(15:04):
You know, you can politely clap and cheer, you can
even stand up if you want. But there wasn't supposed
to be any heckling. There wasn't supposed to be any negativity,
and the Rockets were just falling apart completely. In Westbrook's
doing his typical thing where he's like getting into his
own head. They're daring him to shoot. He's really frustrated
he can't hit a thing. They know they're about to lose,
and they also realized that probably their their whole team
(15:24):
is about to upload, you know what I mean. Daryl
Murray and Mike D'Antoni were gone not too long after
the end of the bubble, right, and so it was
clearly the end of a chapter. They were frustrated in
Westbrook went to the referees and it's like, you know
the rules, you know, you you got to get this
guy out of here. He's not supposed to be young
at us like that, and the referees, you know, talk
to security and they dragged him out of there. But
Rondo's brother was there because he was the head of
(15:46):
the barbers, like kind of coordinating the barbers on campus,
and so that's why he was one of the few
people actually to be allowed at these games. For the
most part, the crowd was like really respectful. Um, most
of the trash talk must happened on the court. You know,
I'll never forget brawn in that same series going after
Robert Covington, and you know, Covington was complaining that he
was being you know, too physical basically, and Lebron's like,
(16:07):
all you guys do is touch and grab. All you
guys do was hold, and he's basically telling him to
shut up and just play basketball and get off of him.
And you know, we can hear this stuff much more
clearly than I can hear that like a Staples And
I know, you go to a lot of Lakers game
at Stable Center right when we can hear some stuff
in that environment because the seats down there are great,
but in the empty gym with the playoff intensity, guys
(16:28):
really yelling. I mean, I'm amazed, Like Robert Covington even
could keep playing, like I don't know. If you during
that spot, Lebron's coming after you and just basically punking
you in front of all these people, I'd be like,
oh man, check me out, coach, Let's try again next half.
You know, I am curious, like you spent you spent.
You covered the NBA before the pandemic, you covered it
in the bubble, and you've covered it post pandemic. You know,
(16:51):
people want to try to ding that Bubble title for Lebron. Um.
What was the end was the basketball? Anything like it
is pre pandemic in the bubble, but put it in
all caps, exclamation point, underline, no asterisk period. You've got
to give this. You've got to give this title to Lebron.
(17:11):
A couple of reasons why. First of all, he was
the best player in the bubble. Anthony Davis was the
second best player in the bubble. Second of all, they
went through the playoffs sixteen and five. They rolled everybody.
I mean, there was some competitive series, but they took
care of their business. And then the other thing that
you can use to validate that result is look how
the teams responded to what happened in the bubble. If
all these teams were just throwing away this postseason and
(17:32):
saying it doesn't really matter. Do we see Philadelphia fire
their coach immediately and get a new president and trade
Al Horford. Do we see the Clippers part ways with
Clippers legend Doc Rivers and change a bunch of their
roster pieces. Do we see Houston completely turned everything over,
trade both their stars and their coach and their GM.
Do we see Milwaukee mortgage is entire future to get
Drew Holiday? Right? Um? I think when you're seeing all
(17:56):
of those impacts within like three months after the bubble
was over, right, I mean that the off season was
really short, that tells you they all treated it realistically
and they treated it like normal, And so for me,
I think the quality of play actually in the bubble
was really high. To no travel was the one thing
that everybody agreed was awesome about the bubble, right. The
players loved it because they got into a group. The
referees loved it, even though they missed the frequent flower
(18:18):
miles they were happy about it and there and meeting
guys like me loved it because you know, sometimes I'm
flying across country twelve times during the postseason, right back
and forth for these different series in the bubble, it's
like you've got to take a twelve minute shuttle bus
and you're right there to watch all the games. I
mean from an efficiency standpoint, you know, like you know,
guys like you and we grew up on the internet,
like efficiency is what it's all about, right, and working
(18:39):
from home has some real benefits because you know, we
can do things more quickly, line it all up. That's
kind of how it felt in the bubble too. It
was like they brought all these games like dropped them
in my lap, and it's like, hey, you get to
be Rihanna, you get to be Jack Nicholson sit in courtside.
You know. Yeah you mentioned the Clippers. Um, were you
at any of the games in their meltdown against Denver?
And you know, having seen what you've seen from them
(19:01):
this year, are they dramatically different or basically the same thing?
Now they have a new coach and a couple of
new players. But well, let me say my answer to
every question, were you at the game is yes. My
pride and joy was that I went to every single
game from the second round of the playoffs on in
every in every series. So imagine Jimmy Goldstein with the
private jet and all the connections. Even he couldn't do
(19:23):
that in the normal year because all these games were
in one spot, right, So like, I'm a crazy basketball junkie.
I'm like, I'm going all in with this. I'm just
gonna see every game and never Actually, you know comes
through in the book too, because I could do a
whole chapter on the Clippers and have said, well, look,
I was at all their games along the way. For me,
it was obvious they were about to crack. About halfway
through that series, there were some early warning signs with
(19:44):
Kauai really just not rising to the moment. I think
it was in game game two of that series. It
was and everybody was kind of looking around, like, wait
a minute, where's our en court leader? What's going on here?
After Game six, Kauai gets asked point blank by reporter
in Los Angeles on the zoom call are you guys choking?
And he doesn't say no, He's just like, uh, you
kind of like called himself and was like, you know,
(20:05):
kind of mumbled out a bit. And I'm sitting there
thinking like, man, this guy just got you know, his
entire reputation checked right here in front of everybody. We're
all sitting there and thinking, okay, well, how is he
going to respond? If there's ever going to be that
Game seven moment where you're like, screw you reporter for
calling me a choker, Like, you know, screw everybody who's
doubting me. That's gonna be it, right, Like, imagine if
somebody called Lebron right now at this stage of his
(20:26):
career at choker, or a Damian Lillard, Like, look how
Damian Lillard responded to the Clippers trash talk. He comes
out and puts up like sixty points. It has this
crazy run through the bubble right so um and just
not really a big competitive response for the Clippers. I
was convinced they were ready to go home. They weren't
the only team, you know, the Sixers wanted to get
out of there. They kept talking about how they missed
the Philadelphia arena, and We're all sitting there saying, come on, guys,
(20:48):
nobody has home court here. You know, everybody's everybody's missing home, right. So,
you know, for the Clippers, in terms of how they've evolved, um,
the trading of Lou Williams and the letting go of
Montrez Harrold, I think was important. They were stuck in
between kind of an identity crisis where there was that
previous team that had been run by all those blue
guys and the bench guys and the Stars coming in.
(21:10):
They never quite meshed it properly in year one, and
now this year it's the Stars team and they've got
some more supporting cast members. I like the Rondo edition
for them. It should give them a little bit more. Um.
You know, I guess guts in these tough moments, but
I still don't trust them. They're very reliant upon the
three point shot. They don't have guys who get to
the basket a lot. They don't have guys who get
to the free throw line a lot. And if your
(21:31):
stars are just jump shooters, you're going to be really
inconsistent in the postseason. That's kind of how I see them.
But look, the door is open right now. You know,
the Lakers are kind of struggling. If you can't run
through it now, right if you can't take advantage of
this opportunity. When are you gonna do it? That's a
great point. I I do. I just wonder, like you said,
like reliant upon the three? Right? So I mean essentially, like,
(21:52):
are Reggie Jackson, Pat Beverley and Morris gonna come through
from deep if Paul George and kau I don't. And
we know Paul struggled in the post season um since
his early days with the Pacers. Absolutely, and then are
those guys are gonna trust them? Right? Like you get
halfway through a series and let's say Reggie has like
a one for seven night in game two, right, and
you're Paul George and you're Kauhi Leonard and the way
(22:12):
that the world is on your shoulders and you're thinking, Man,
we can't go out like this again. Do I really
want to kick to Reggie when I'm open? Or do
I want to put this out my own shoulders? Paul
George did that in Indiana a lot. You know, they
get into tough situations and he would always want the ball.
Remember that huge press conference fiasco he had where he's like,
I've got to have the ball for the final shot,
no matter what. In that series, against Lebron, So he
(22:32):
wants to be that guy. But the problem is, you know,
they just weren't those guys and keep moments last year.
And you know, to me, that's where the getting to
the free throw line stuff is so important. The Lakers
Stars do a great job of that, Chris Paul, Devin Booker.
Those guys can get to the free throw line. For Phoenix,
yokich Man, he's got every trick in the book, and
he can get to the free throw line when he
needs to unclunch moments. And so is Kauai gonna be
(22:54):
okay with eighteen footers every single time down or Paul
George hitting those deep you know, off the Gibil three's
that he likes to go to. Is that a sustainable formula?
I'm not sure. By the way, I question their defense too,
like do they have somebody to match up with really
skilled biggs. I'm sure you watched that game last week.
Yoki killed Zobach, I mean, just absolutely destroyed him, turned
him inside out in that game. I don't know if
(23:16):
they have a better matchup where Sergei Bakam and They've
got some real questions. Fox Sports Radio has the best
sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our
shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the
I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live.
Who do you think currently is the is the best
team most likely to come out of the West given
(23:36):
the injuries? You know, Jamal Murray, Lebron, a d all that.
So I'm really big on being deferential to the teams
that have earned it. So I usually give the benefit
of the dodge the Lakers. They've got me nervous here
this last week, though. I mean Lebron's ankle and his
comments about the ankle are very concerning to me because
he needed to be in a ramp up mode right now,
and if he's not right, like if the ankle is
(23:56):
not right, the Lakers title defense is not right. It's
as simple that right. And Anthony Davis has been pretty
inconsistent too. Um, I would still defer to them, but
I think the team, you know, honestly that people don't
want to face his denver. I could gush about Yoki
all day long. I think this guy deserves even more
credit than he's gone. He's gonna win m v P.
But I think that we need to start including him
(24:16):
and possibly being the best player in basketball conversation. Now
you look at Lebron, Katie Janice Steph. Those are the
guys who typically get into that conversation. Right now, you
look at Yokich is all around offensive impact, How he
can make his teammates better, how he can cover up
for injured guys like Jamal Murray. They've just been absolutely rolling.
He can score it himself. Um, I understand the defense
(24:37):
is going to be a question mark, but look, he's
average at least on defense, and uh, he makes up
for it on offense. To me, I just think that
he's a monster mismatch for a lot of these teams
in the playoffs, I wouldn't want to face them. I'd
be more afraid of Denver honestly than Phoenix or Utah
at this point. Whoof Okay, I don't think I'm there
with you yet. On Denver, I mean, they just what
(24:58):
what what I saw against the Lakers the other I
was they basically just have two guys. It's your kitchen porter,
Like I don't know who the third guy is, Aaron Gordon?
Is it me or just does he look like he's
not confident offensively? Well, he's actually been pretty good for
them since he's come over, but he's not the big
time volume score three. He's not Kuzma, you know what
I mean, where he's gonna come in and light you up.
I will say this about the Nuggets. The Lakers are
(25:20):
there kryptonite. Anthony Davis is yr Kichs kryptonite. Like he's
the one guy. We saw that in last year's Western
Conference Finals where Davis's versatility and defense can really bother
your kitchen. Their defensive schemes really bother him too, where
they trapped and like they forced him to kind of
beat them. But like, if I'm saying first round matchup,
if I'm the Nuggets, I'm feeling good about any team
they might face in the first round. And you know,
(25:42):
if the Lakers were to get knocked out early, I
feel like the door is kind of open for them.
But now I'm with you, like, look, they have no
defensive matchup. Really that's great for Lebron or Anthony Davis
on the other end. And so you saw Lebron get
into a lot of the physical old man stuff, turnaround jumpers,
put his head down and those guys just physically. Aaron
Gordon is a nice defensive player, um Paul Millsap, you know,
(26:02):
no chance. I mean maybe five or five years ago,
but even then, you know, so yeah, even then in Atlanta,
Lebron made him look back exactly. So those are just
really tough individual matchups for them. But in terms of
the non Lakers teams, like if it was Clippers versus Nuggets,
I'm taking Nuggets. I mean they've beat up multiple times
heads up this season, and Yokis just kills their centers
like every single time. So I'm looking forward to what
(26:25):
he could do. I also love Yoki and that there's
a playoff version of him where he kicks his game
up another notch. It's not playoff p right like playoff jokers.
A real deal. I mean, this guy is a We'll
look back at his numbers against Portland San Antonio a
couple of years ago, you know, throughout last year's postseason,
he puts up monster, monster numbers. Yeah, but I don't know, Ben,
how much of that has to do with playing alongside
(26:45):
Jamal Murray, who can go for forty or fifty at
the drop of a hat. I mean, we haven't seen
him without Murray, but you know the way Michael Porter Jr.
Shooting the three is crazy, I will say, Ben, if
you look at the gambling odds, denver of the top
five is the longest shot to come out of the West.
See what happened. You do nothing about gambling, but go
for it. Look, I mean, Utah is good too, um,
(27:08):
and they've been really consistent. But you know, I actually
think like Gobert is almost easier to exploit in the
playoffs than a guy like Yoki, And if they go
head to head, Yokich kills Gobert to um, you're right
on Murray though. Look, it's gonna really reorient their offense
because you're gonna be able to trap and double Yokich
at will whenever you want, because you don't have that
backcourt scoring partner. And Murray I called him the m
(27:29):
v P, the most bubble player, Like he was the
guy who symbolized the bubble better than anybody last year,
and so that that was just an absolutely brutal hit
for them. But I still think like they've been playing
well without him, Like I mean, it's almost not quite undefeated,
but pretty close and a big reason why his porter
stepped up. He can get a shot anywhere. And you know,
if you leave him. You know Yokis is gonna find him.
(27:49):
And then Gordon's a great cutter. You know he'll get
to the basket. Yokis will just get him a lot
of easy points. So um, I would just say be
quickly and be careful, don't ride off the Nuggets yet.
I guess that that's my real point here. You haven't
mentioned Phoenix, Ben, and I have to say, like for me,
they match up great with the Clippers with Bridges a
good defender, and Jake crowd are really experienced player on
the wing. I know they don't have playoff experience and
(28:11):
Monty Williams has never won a playoff series, but I
think they've got the best backcourt in the West with
CP three and Booker, and they have a big guy too.
I guess kind of sort of match up with with
Yoki in eighton worry On Phoenix, I think that kind
of as sleepers, right, Like I think that they match
up better with every team but the Lakers. So if
somebody else can handle the Lakers for them, then I
(28:34):
think their odds dramatically improved. Like I think you can
get by with Crowder and Bridges in that front line
against the Clippers, start forwards, but not the Lakers start forwards.
I mean, eight is just too long for anything they're
gonna throw at him. And then Lebron is too physical
for bridges. It's almost like they need the other bridges
out in Charlotte's body to go with Miles uh Phoenix
is bridges is game like, combine them into one bridges
(28:55):
and then you're gonna be able to stop Lebron. Maybe. Um.
The other thing too, is with Chris Paul. I mean, look,
he's gonna have to ramp his minutes up, keep the
efficiency up, and execute lighting games. That's been a problem
for him in previous postseasons, and we see he kind
of hits a wall usually around the second round. So
that's just, you know, another concern that I would have.
But they've been awesome. Money is right there in the
Coach of the Year. Makes you can make a strong
(29:16):
case for him or Quinn Snyder or TIBs out in
the Eastern Conference, and I think they kind of like
being sleepers by the way. I think they like, you know,
guys like be ignoring them because they could just keep
doing their things. That's fine, good for them, I'll add,
I'll add a ship to their shoulder. Yeah, Sun Snuggets
is weird. They haven't played it looks like since January,
like early January, and you know the Suns haven't seen
(29:38):
them without Murray, I don't. I know, you have to
kind of walk before you can run in the NBA playoffs,
So the Sun's theoretically first time in the playoffs in
eleven years. They got no chance, but West does feel
wide open, right, I'm with you though, bust up, go ahead. No,
I was gonna say no question. And actually the last
time those two teams played, I think Booker was injured,
so your ki went nuts. But it was one of
(29:59):
those things where you know, Phoenix's roster is probably gonna
be in a better spot now than it wasn't January.
So I think they're going into that series. If we
were to match up like that, probably second round. I
think Phoenix would go in there with profidence too, just
because you know, they all really buy into Chris Paul.
He's got to be all NBA second team this year.
I can't quite get him into like the top three
or four m v P conversation. I know Charles Barkley
wants to get there. I can't do that. But All
(30:20):
NBA second team for sure. Um, I want to wrap
up the West with a guy you covered. Um, you
were a Blazer's Edge of blog. Now did you start
the website? No? I I My first sight actually I started,
was called Draft Kevin Durant, and my whole goal was
to try to convince the Blazers to take k D
over Ode in two thousand seven. And you know, I
was young, and I was young and egotistical. This is
(30:41):
on blog spot, you know, and I'm thinking I'm gonna
be able to convince these guys to do it, and
they and of course it didn't go that way, and
I was crushed and I was like, well, what should
I do now? And luckily there was a site starting
up called Blazer's Edge have been around for a year
or two. This is back in two thousand seven. I
was able to kind of, um, you know, communicate with them,
get in touch with the Blazers, get game credential, and
(31:01):
so I covered the team for you know, probably five
six seven years, just going to home games, kind of
doing as like a moonlighting thing as I transitioned into
NBA writing, So I know that you're doing as you
as your other job. So I was just sales and
marketing for a small business in the Portland area. We
sold like bike racks, and it was really good experience
because it was mostly online, you know, so I got
you know, it was kind of uh, you know, there
(31:22):
are a lot of crossover Like I have a podcast now.
It's a lot of the marketing stuff we do with
the podcasts similar to what I was doing back in
my day job ten years ago. You know, that's pretty cool.
So you went from that to writing for a blog,
to Sports Illustrated, to the Washington Post to a book
on the bubble. I mean, it's been a run, man.
Then what a run? That's like the thirteen years. I mean,
(31:43):
you know, I'd say we're so bad at predicting the
future because if somebody had told me five years ago
that I would be in Los Angeles at FS one
and doing all this stuff, I would have been like,
come on, Gibriel, you know, oh yeah, you know, five
years now, here's what's happening. I have a podcast and
radio and all this stuff. I mean, if somebody told
you ten year ago you'll be at the Washington Post
writing a book on the NBA, be honest, Ben, You're
(32:04):
you would have laughed him out of the room. Right. Well,
I don't know if you feel like this. Sometimes I
feel like I'm Forrest Gump. You know. It's just like
I just keep falling into these historic situations where it's
like I'm just wandering around aimlessly. Like honestly, I never
really went out and saw jobs, like things just kind
of filling in my lap. But I know that sounds
like kind of goofy. And I talked to young journalists
and They're like, well, how did you do it? And
I was like, I still have no idea, Like I
feel like, I mean, it was hard work, obviously, I
(32:26):
was working around the clock and just throw my whole
heart into this stuff. And I remember you'd be posted
ten times on the Big Lead. So it was kind
of like back in the day, it was about, hey,
we got to make sure that people know who you are,
and you have to be really self motivated and kind
of entrepreneurial in a way. Um. But no, I never
saw the book coming. Even when the pandemic shot down,
you know, like like last March for example, I really
(32:47):
wanted to get something out of this time, you know,
because there was no games, and so I started committing
to fitness and trying to lose weight. I just trying
to like turn a negative into a positive. And within
about two weeks of being in the bubble, I was
approached by an agent in the book publisher saying, hey,
this could be a book. Are you interested? And I
was like, yes, absolutely, of course, and um, you know
it was it was daunting. You know, I had never
done it before. I was pretty naive in terms of
(33:09):
how the process would work. But I feel so grateful.
I mean, like I just I love always love basketball,
you know, Like I said, I started on blog spot
in two thousand and seven, and it's just you just
keep taking one step go a time. It doesn't really matter.
You know, whatever your long goal, long term goal is,
forget it. You're never gonna get it exactly where you
want it, right, So you just keep making that progress
day after day, and eventually you get a pretty good place.
(33:30):
That's kind of how I view it. It's where I
had read this. Uh, some really smart guy talked about
the different kinds of luck. You know, there's many different
kinds of luck. People think, oh, you got lucky, you
won the lottery. Yeah, that's one kind of luck, but
there are other kinds where if you just keep stirring
stuff up, you know, like you like, I'm going to
write about the NBA. I'm going to start a blog
about draft Kevin Durant, and that stirred up interest in Boom,
(33:53):
you're at Blazer's Edge and then you are writing about
the NBA for Blazer's Edge, and s I noticed is
like you can say it's key, but like everything lined
up and you have to still deliver, you know, like
that's pretty cool, man. I think that's awesome. Word book
in sixty days words a day. You know, I'm just
grinding from seven pm to midnight while trying to cover
from my day job, you know, NBA free Agency, NBA
(34:16):
Draft and all that stuff too. So it was a
crazy two months stretch for me. But I will also
saying I was pretty privileged. I had an awesome writing
education at Johns Hopkins University, which I feel like helped
me stand out from the crowd because it was creative writing,
non journalism. So that got me into a situation where
maybe my voice is a little bit different than the
typical sports writer. And then I was also lucky enough
to be able to have a day job, Like I mentioned,
(34:37):
so I could kind of moonlight. You know, if I
had to try to live off my writing the first
couple of years, you know, I would have been homeless, right,
and that's just when net works. So wow. So JOHNS
Hopkins huh yes, sir, Yeah, I know people know it
as a medical school, but they actually have an amazing
creative writing program and I owe so much to them.
Like it's it's been fun to hear from some of
like the old professors because you know, the Post is
in d C. So a lot of people read the
(34:57):
post back there, and you know it just for me,
it's like a full circle moment. If you had told
me in college that I'd be writing a book, I
would have said, no. All these other kids here in
this class, they're the ones who are gonna be writing books.
You know, you have that kind of imposter syndrome a
little bit, but um, you know, it feels really cool
to to get it done. So would you have like
a four oh coming out of high school and stuff?
Don't get me bragging here, Yeah no, uh, Vitorian, I
(35:20):
was a valutoria my high school. Yet. Oh that's amazing, dude. Wow, congratulations,
what was it a big class or or kind of
small or what. So I think beer in high school.
So Beaverton is well known as the home of Nike
International World Headquarters for night, so I grew up getting
all that swooge propagana just pumped straight into my my veins. Um.
But I think at the time Beaverton might have been
(35:41):
the largest public high school in the state. Um. You know,
Oregan is not the most populous state, but it's right
up there with one of the biggest high schools in
the state. Yeah. So, uh, you know, let me dive
a little deeper while I've got you here. So were
your parents writers at all in any capacity? Um? No,
So my mom was a lawyer and then she became
a school teacher. Um. Actually, I think I got the
books from my grandma. She was a live brand, so
(36:01):
she'd forced feed books to me when I was really young,
so I actually dedicated it to her. Unfortunately she passed
away a few years but like you know, I give
her the credit I think for for my interest in writing,
and my mom as well. She was always you know,
throwing books at me pretty much my whole childhood. And
then my dad's actually a computer programmer, and I think
I got some of the work ethics stuff from him,
some of the grinder aspect, because you know, the computer programmers,
(36:24):
it's like the old thing, like they got a two
leader bottle of mountain dew and they're just like flowing
away on a keyboard into like three am. I mean,
that was his life for twenty thirty years, you know,
I mean, just doing it for Intel. So I think
there's a little bit of both my parents in this project. Hopefully. Wow. Okay,
so now I'm understanding why Ben it's such a smart guy.
It all is starting to add up. I mean, wow,
(36:44):
what a what a life you've given lived? Been all right,
let's quickly go to the Eastern Conference. One more in
the West. Damian Lillard in Portland recently, Um, you know,
Chris Haynes had a piece, and I mean, you know
you you've covered a lot of NBA free agency and
every year for like the last decade, there's been a
huge name changing teams unhappy. That's what's driven the cycle.
(37:05):
And all of a sudden, Bradley Beal looks like he's
staying in Washington, Um, Karl Anthony Towns. Things have turned
around a little bit in Minnesota. I just wonder, given
what's going on in Portland, it looks like maybe a
tear down in some capacity is on the horizon. Any
chance Damian Lillard, who has been steadfast about not wanting
to join forces and stay in Portland, any chance that
(37:28):
he could be on the move from the Blazers. I'm
not sure I see it for Lily. Let me get
into that in a second. I want to make a
big picture point here though, with the free agency, because
you're right, there's a real drought here right now in
potential disgruntled stars who want to move, and it's pandemic related.
You saw a number of big names resigned contract extension
to talk about Lebron be honest, Anthony Davis. The list
(37:49):
goes on. Those guys wanted to lock up their money early,
no matter what happens here in terms of losses and
finances whatever. The stars wanted to lock in and say
I want my financial certainty no matter what. Right. So
that is naturally going to create a situation where you
just have fewer stars available. That's driven up the price
for guys like James Harden and Drew holiday Um in
some of these previous deals. But it's gonna carry over
(38:10):
into this summer too, where it's gonna be hard to
find big time talent. Right now, here's the thing with Lillard.
I mean, everybody knows he's been super duper loyal to
Portland the whole way. I think he's just come into
a crossroads where it's like we've been trying it with
Terry Stott's and the same group and CJ. Mccollumn for
a while. Um, there was one run to the Western
Conference finals, but how likely is that here of the
(38:31):
next couple of years to repeat that luck. We need
a little bit more investment. It might be time to
go for a little bit more. And it's really hard
for a small market team like Portland to keep up
with the Jones, is right, Like if they want to
go trade for a Bradley bal what's that cost them,
you know, four or five first round picks. You're kind
of mortgaging your future. So there's a conflict there between
what's best for the superstar and what's best for the organization,
(38:52):
and they're gonna have to sort that out. I think
it's more grumbling than anything. I mean, ultimately, he's living
a great life up there. He's got a contract that's
about to pay him fifty million. He's got a Toyota
dealership in Portland's you know, he's got the rap career.
You know, he's the cover of every media guy at
every Jersey. I mean, I think he really likes being
the big fish in a small pond, so I would
be surprised if he moved on. I think this is
more about, like, hey, I want to see more urgency
(39:14):
from the ownership group in the front office. And keep
in mind too, the owner is the sister of the
former owner who passed away, you know, pretty abruptly. Paul Allen,
like he was the Microsoft billionaire, So his sister's basketball
is not her passion, right, She just inherited this team
and with along with the rest of his estate. So
there is some question like will she eventually sell the team?
How long is she going to be committed to it?
(39:35):
You know, when you're Paul Allen, you know he did
not care what about the luxury tax. He'd be spending
millions and millions because he was one of the richest
gun in the world. Now your sister comes in and
it's like, well, if we're only making the first round
of the playoffs, Like are we still wanting to spend
this big money. I think that becomes a little bit
of a question too. So Poland has some stuff to
to sort out. But I'll tell you this, I think
Damian Lillard is gonna be the last guy's standing there.
(39:56):
You know, they'll trade everybody else before they trade him,
you know, So maybe they' out of package McCollum and
Nerk or whoever they can in exchange for some some
star in some capacity, I mean Karl Anthony. Towns will
be good fit. I think they're with Lillard, but chance
of getting him or slim right, Yeah, I would just
say it's time for a shake up, probably for them.
I think for Minnesota, their decision on Towns could come
(40:17):
down to where their pick lands. Right, Like, if you
get the number one or number two pick this year,
or even number three pick, you could have Mobile that's
a potential Towns replacement, you know, from USC, or you
could go grab Jalen Sells haven't be your new franchise
point guard, and now you go forward with Suggs and
Edwards as your backcourt and you just kind of move forward,
right if you don't keep your pick, and they could
(40:38):
have to send their pick to Golden State if it
lands outside the top three. Right, if you don't get
your pick, you better keep Carl Towns, because then what
are you selling your fan base? Right? Like, so, I
think that some of their decision making process is going
to rely upon um where their pick lands. But I
also think like they really wanted to work with Cat there.
It was personal last year just knowing some of their
front off executives pretty well. I mean, when they tried
(40:59):
so hard to help Cat's mom when she was going
through the COVID situation, the whole organization felt the weight
of her death, and so they want to stand by
him as long as possible, as closely as possible. It's
just a unique situation emotionally, right, And um, I think
for that reason it's probably best to just chill on
the Cat talk. But you know that draft pick is
going to be a wild card certainly. All right, we'll
(41:21):
wrap up with this one, ben Um in the East.
You know, the Bucks beat the Nets and the Books
again it's regular season. Who knows the Nets really tried
hard in that game, though Durant played I think forty
minutes Kyriet nine. I get the I get the vibe
here that the Bucks perhaps are better as underdogs. The
(41:42):
last two years they've been, you know, the number one seed,
the favorites, and they've kind of collapsed. This year, they're
the underdogs. Everybody's talking nets, everybody's talking six ers. Is
this the year the Bucks breakthrough? You're right on the money,
And there's a big theme in my book. Um, they
did not handle the pressure of being favorites well at
all in the bubble. I mean, it really got to them,
especially of Joanna's He was just wearing the burden of
that on his shoulders. He's so much better cast as
(42:05):
the underdog because that's who he was his entire life,
going back to his childhood. Increase right, So, um, I
think they're gonna have an issue matching up once Harden's back.
So I would favor Brooklyn in that series. But I'd
say this, Brooklyn Milwaukee is the number one series I
want to see of any series in the entire postseason,
because you've got kd this quote unquote ring Chaser, big
market guy versus Janice, the loyal guy. You've got Katie,
(42:27):
the smoothest shooting forward ever probably in the history of
the sport, versus the honest who's trying to work on
his shop and he's a much more physical player. Um,
you've got teams that are you know, you've got the
glitz of Brooklyn and and New York versus the kind
of the Schlitz up there in the Milwaukee. Right. Oh wow,
what a rough It's almost like you've planned this the
(42:48):
Schlitz from Milwaukee. And look, I'll be honest, I use
that one before, but it's glitz versus Schlitz. I mean,
that's what we're talking about. A very natural story, right,
big market, small market and so um, and they're they're
playing styles are just so different. And in what the coaches,
You've got Coach Bud hot Seat, he's got to get
it done. They've got to make a deep postseason run.
Steve Nash, rookie coach. First couple of months, he was
(43:09):
shaky in late game situations in terms of how he's
drawn stuff up, where does the ball go to and
those kinds of matchups, has never played the postseason matchups
games before. And they really don't have a great defensive
answer for Janice. I mean, they're gonna have to figure
something out there. So um, I just think it's a
fascinating matchup. Milwaukee is gonna have a real shot. I
think three teams and they used to have a shot
to win the whole conference. But I'm taking Brooklyn based
(43:31):
on the star power. But they need Harden back for sure.
I mean, he's been awesome this year and without him,
they just look different. I can't wait to see how
Kyrie handles a post if they're down two to one
and he's only attempting eighteen shots or something. I I
you just know and employ it feels like an implosion
is near for Kyrie Irving, especially when Harden gets back. Well, See,
the thing is their chemistry this year has been amazing,
(43:53):
which was the biggest surprise of all of it. Right,
Like when the guys have been on the court, they've
played so well together, but they don't have the camaraderie
in the cokee you because they haven't been able to
all be healthy. So those kinds of questions you're describing,
it's gonna be straight in the frying pan. Right. It's like, Hey,
game three in a series, Harden has been back for
a week. You know, Milwaukee is like, you know, they're
they're finding a way to slow Katie down. So how
(44:13):
are we going to respond? And the answers are Hardened
or irving, right, Well, you can't be both. So who's
gonna be able to step up? It's it's gonna be juicy.
And the other thing too about Brooklyn. Everyone is going
to be rooting for them to fail as soon as
these playoffs hit. They're going to be that team. How
do they handle that? You know, Katie always has the
chip on his shoulder, goes back at Michael Rappaport on
social media, always engaged that kind of stuff. Hardened, I mean,
(44:37):
adversity in the playoffs has always been kind of his
achilling seal as well. And Kyrie, you know we saw
in Boston he was trying to guard be honest. I
mean it was a disaster his decision making in that series, right,
And that's the last time he's really faced postseason pressures.
So they're the team that I'm going to watch more
closely than any team in the entire league going in
his playoffs. And Kyrie got there before Nash, right yep,
(44:59):
and for Durant before Hardened, so he can I wonder
if he feels like, hey, I started this thing, this
is my team again getting in Kyrie said, is very difficult.
But anyway, Ben, we'll call that point real quick. I
mean they used to call it seven eleven. That was
Kyrie's nickname for him and Katie, right because their jersey numbers.
It's like, well it's not seven eleven when you also
got harded. I mean, you gotta fit that number into
(45:20):
your little bix. And so I do think you know,
Kyrie viewed it as like this is me and Kevin show.
And you know, now you got Blake Griffin, now you
got you know, Claxton's gotta play man. It's how you
got all these other new pieces. Brown has been great
for them. Um, you know, so it the world turn
for Kyrie Irving, you know what I mean. It's switched
up a little bit. Definitely fun getting excited just talking
(45:41):
about this for the NBA playoffs, all right, he is.
Ben Golliver wrote a book. You should go check it out,
bubble Ball Inside the NBA's Fight to Save a Season.
Congrats Man. Book is out when to Yesterday Today, It's out.
It's everywhere in bookstores right now, Amazon, Barnes and Noble
Pals wherever you get your books. Nice alright, Ben, thanks
a lot, congratulations again and now we'll talk to you soon, alright,
(46:02):
Tickerman
Host
Jason McIntyre
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