On today's episode, former NFL scout and author Daniel Kelly joins Jason for an extension conversation heading into next week's NFL Draft. In the interview, Kelly explains why he thinks Clemson quarterback Trevor Lawrence has high bust potential and why Lawrence's comments to Sports Illustrated last week were a big red flag, why Alabama quarterback Mac Jones reminds him a bit of Joe Namath and why he could see the New England Patriots making a move for Jones if he slides past #3, why BYU signal caller Zach Wilson seems too 'soft' to succeed as the New York Jets' franchise quarterback if he winds up there as expected, why he wouldn't draft North Dakota State's Trey Lance at all if he was running an NFL franchise, why he has Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields as the top guy at the position entering the Draft, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up,
ladies and gentlemen, It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for Thursday,
April twenty second. What a night in the NBA. So
many crazy games, madness occurring all over the place. The
(00:25):
Knicks continue to win. They beat the Hawks in overtime.
Trey Young got hurt too and doesn't look good for
the Hawks. But again, we're not here to break down
every single NBA regular season game. As much as rob
G wants me to talk about the Warriors taking an
l on their road trip in Washington and m v
(00:47):
P leader Steph Curry going seven for twenty five two
for fourteen from deep only scored eighteen points. As much
as you guys want to beat up Curry for that,
go for it, that's fine, that's fine, you know, go
fire away, let it all out, get it off your chest.
We've got a great podcast for you, and it has
(01:07):
nothing to do with the NBA. I gotta give credit
where credit is due. Rob G found an awesome guest
for the NFL Draft. A lot of you like Warren Sharp,
and I'm curious what the reaction is going to be
to today's guest. His name is Daniel Kelly. He is
a former UH scout with the New York Jets, dating
(01:28):
back to the Bill Parcels area. He was in the
league for a minute and now he is writing for
si dot com, a blog covering the NFL for them,
And um, I just gotta say you guys know, if
you follow me on social media, you know I don't
like the haters. I'm like, come on, guys, life is
(01:49):
too short to hate. Okay, It's just too It is
like life is good. For instance, yesterday I played about
two hours of basketball and it felt amazing. I was
exhausted at the end of it. A good run. I
lost our first game, not just me, but our team
lost the first game, and then we didn't lose the
(02:09):
rest of the day. It was a great run. I'm
I'm totally spent today. It's gonna be a long one
for me. But like, life is good, okay. Jake Paul
may fight Floyd Mayweather, Like, come on, like this is
this is comical? Yes, that's a real thing. I don't
know if it's confirmed. Let's see what the news comes
out later today. But Jake Pulvers Floyd Mayweather maybe a
(02:31):
thing okay, and the NBA's popping. The NFL Draft is
a week from today. Um, listen, I'm not going to
dive into too much stuff because we've got a great interview.
But just sit back by the way, another headliner guests coming.
If you thought Warren Sharp was good, we had Jake
Billis recently, We've got a lot of big time guests.
(02:54):
Friday's guest is a big one. Okay, So I want
you to today enjoy Daniel Kelly and we talked about
the NFL Draft. He is a big hater. He does
not like Trevor Lawrence. He likes Mac Jones. You can
imagine how this goes. Listen. I like challenging people. Um,
there are a lot of challenges in this podcast. I
(03:16):
hope you guys enjoy it. Remember subscribe, rate and review.
Here's our guest, Daniel Kelly. Jason likes to think he
knows everything when it comes to sports. I know what
sports dance want, but for everything he doesn't. He knows
a guy who does. Let's just say I know a
(03:38):
guy who knows a guy who knows another guy. All right,
let's welcome into straight fire. It's draft season, people, and
we're bringing in a unique voice. Here. We had Warren
Sharp yesterday and today we're bringing in Daniel Kelly. He's
on SI dot com. He used to be a scout
for Drumroll Please my New York Jets in the Bill
(04:01):
Parcels era. Daniel, how are you? Manyn't do Jason, thank
you so much for having me on your show. Yeah,
you know, we're always trying to bring in unique voices guys.
Maybe we can do some mainstream, some off the mainstream.
And then when producer Rob told me about your story,
I was like, Okay, we gotta get this guy in here.
And Daniel, I'm gonna I'm gonna come out right out
(04:22):
of the gate and say, you know, I was looking
at a lot of the guys that we're gonna talk
about here for the draft, and Daniel, you don't like
a lot of these guys, man. Yeah, hate Zack Wilson,
you're drashing Trevor Lawrence. Daniel, goodness, gracious, where would you
like to begin? Well, I tell you we can we
begin with those guys, I guess, but absolutely I'm on
(04:43):
the island, like literally and figurably, I live in Key West,
Florida's so I'm definitely yeah, one of those voices that's
standing alone some of these guys. But like I always
like to say Jason to our listeners, that film does
not lie. And these guys they put themselves in film
and scouting's act. You're pretty easy. You just write what
you see, and that's what I've done. That's what I'm
(05:03):
seeing at least of these guys. Now. The interesting thing
about film and I saw, I forget who it was.
I feel like it's a former quarterback put this tweet
out that, Um, only like a few thousand people really
know what to watch for on tape. Because now with YouTube, Daniel,
I'm gonna be honest, I could go on YouTube and
you can call up any player you want and you
(05:24):
can watch every single Jalen Waddle snap from his career
at Alabama, and you could do this for so many
players it's crazy. So now you have a lot of
guys on social media saying, well, I watched the tape
of this guy, I know him. Um, obviously not everybody's
watching the right things when it comes to tape. So
why don't we look at a guy like Laurence and
tell me what you see that you don't really like? Well,
(05:45):
I do. I look at his full body of work.
You know. One of the things when I worked at
the jetson er Bill Parcels and I was in the
pro department with Scott Pioli, his son in law, was that,
you know, Scott always told me, you know, make sure
that you're not, you know, like watching a lot of
highlight films and you're certainly not producing highlight films. And
what Scott meant by that is he said, well, you know,
(06:07):
anybody can look really great on a film, or you
can make him look great, or they can look really bad,
or you can make him look bad. So he really
taught me that, you know, the value which I already
kind of knew, but he really further instilled in me
the value of watching the player's full body of work.
And so when I go back and look at these guys,
I look at everything, uh, you know, all the throws
(06:28):
as you mentioned, and with with Trevor Lawrence, there's a
lot of like, I'm not sitting here saying, hey, the
guy is a dog. I you know, there's nothing to
like about it. He knows nothing I like about it,
because I have a list of things that I like
about him. I mean, he's got nice size at six six, Um,
you know, he's got a cannon for an arm. He
looks like he's been very well schooled and well coached.
(06:49):
And the technical aspects of playing quarterback in the pocket.
You know, he's got that play action fake and that
pump fake he uses in almost every play, which is
kind of becoming more and more of a trend. And
college football teams. Um, you know, he does a lot
of things. Um, you know, he he's got some nice
touch and accuracy at times. You know, he can really
launch it. Like I said, you know, there's a lot
(07:09):
of things to like about him. His pocket poise, his presence.
I mean, in the pocket he looks really good. But
but watching the full body of work is where some
of the things start to break down. And scouting is
really like being a private investigator. You know, you kind
of keep notes. I keep notebooks, and page of the
page of the notes, I start seeing trends and identifying
(07:30):
baselines and things that they do well and things they
don't do well. And one of the things that really
concerned me about Trevor Lawrence is it almost seemed Jason
like he was what I call manipulating college defenses. I mean,
he's a guy that's always had this incredible raw ability
we've all seen come up um and it seems kind
of like he's taken advantage of situations through the use
(07:53):
of the mechanics, like through the play action and through
the pump fakes. He's able to momentarily freeze defense is
in the freeze corners, maybe in safety is that aren't
as good, so his receivers can achieve better route leverage.
And it seems almost like that's what he's been doing
a lot of the time. Because what became more and
more exposed the more I watched was what I feel
(08:14):
Jason to our listeners was an absolute inability of his
to throw what timing routes, especially at the intermediate level.
I think this is gonna be a huge problem in
the NFL because offenses are predicated on throwing timing routes
a lot of the time. If you watch Trevor carefully
and watch all his throws, he waits until the receiver
(08:36):
is either coming open or as wide open before he
releases the ball. You can't do that in the National
Football League. You have to throw before the receiver makes
his break. On the intermediate routes. I think that's gonna
be a big problem. Sometimes he has a tendency also
to lock in with his receivers. That's another big no note.
Another thing I look at is this big wind up
(08:57):
he has in the pocket. He's got the big arm,
the big frame, And you know, we really haven't seen
a quarterback at this size, maybe since a Dan McGuire
came out years and years ago at six foot eights,
um Mark's brother. And we see this, you know, the
Oakland A's. We see this big along gated you know
this throwing motion. Well that's okay, But what happens is
corners are trained. You know, Corners are kind of like
(09:19):
sharks of the water when you throw a blood in
the ocean. Corners watch for these things, especial for the veterans.
And so what a in a long gate at throwing
motion does is give a veteran savvy corner an extra
second or two the jump, and all of a sudden,
we see him on ESPN, you know, as elite in
the evening time, um as a pick six. So some
of those things really concern me. At the intermediate level.
(09:42):
I think Trevor is a guy that can throw I mean,
he can put some real mustard on the ball. He's
got it. Really the strongest arm of anybody in this
draft class, there's no question. But but you know, the
short game, he's pretty good on. UM. In the long
game he's pretty good on but but the intermediate route
is the bread and butter for lock quarterbacks in the NFL,
and I think he's really gonna struggle. I did say
(10:03):
my report, Jason, if you guys check it out on
Draft Diamonds dot com. Um, you know, it's something where
I think that if you had an offense like the
old school L. Davis, Uh, you know, everybody just run.
You got a bunch of receivers around a four to
four E. Everybody just clears out and go routes. I
think that's his best chance to succeed if you're gonna
put him in a traditional offense. I really kind of
(10:26):
questioned some things. And he also plays in the shotgun primarily,
which is another concern, especially to me at that height,
bringing him under center is going to be an adjustment.
It's wet, new cast of characters. And I also feel
that he was really dependent on having a great running
back at Clemson and E T N and especially with
his play action that he likes to use to try
to cover up with inability to throw timing routes. So
(10:48):
he goes into let's say, at Jacksonville, which you know,
the Free World has him going to. I think that,
you know, if they don't have that franchise back there,
that also exposes him a little bit more. There's a
lot of cut terms that I have. I've outlined them
in my report online. And also there's a picture. Because
this is something a lot of fans don't look at.
Something more and more teams that start to look at,
(11:09):
especially in light of some of the off field stuff
we've seen, some of the you know, some of the
different problems and and things that we've seen, the criminal
activity and so forth. There's a picture of Trevor Lawrence
floating around online with him holding a handgun, um and
in a Florida get or sweater. I don't know if
you have you seen that, Jason, I have not. I'm
googling and now as you as you talk about it, Yeah,
(11:31):
it's pretty interesting. These are the type of things. There's actually,
um what I've been told from guys that are scouting
directors in the NFL more and more teams are are
starting to even hire guys that can just dig in
the social media. This is something that there's any aspiring
scouts out there, This may be an in and the avenue.
Instead of just writting scout reports and everybody, you might
(11:52):
want to start digging and looking at some of the background,
looking at social media. Now most of these guys have agents, obviously,
and the agents have really cleared up and cleaned up
a lot of the top prospects of twitters and things
at this at this point. But it's interesting once in
a while you come up with the gem. Do you
see the picture at all? Jason? I mean nothing on
Google Images. Maybe it's like you're right, Maybe the agents
(12:14):
they can get on there and get stuff spread and
get it off the web. But I don't know. I
guess I got I'm stunned, Daniel. I mean, listen a
ton of Trevor Lawrence stuff out there we're talking about.
I don't want to call him like a Bible thumper,
but he's extremely religious, clean background. Although you know, you
could say DeShawn Watson had a clean background, um and
(12:34):
like a lot of the critique you had, um, you know,
I would say, like Hey, I mean, Chuck's Justin Fields
had many worse games than the worst game Lawrence had.
Matt Jones probably doesn't have a lot of terrible games
because well he only started sixteen. Like I wonder, Dan,
let me ask when you when you look at a
quarterback who's got three years as a starter as Lawrence does. Obvious,
(12:57):
so you can nip pick a ton. Matt Jones only
has one year as a starter, and then you know
he started what two games after two got hurt one
of them he had two pick six is um? I
mean you look at Lawrence what he did against Alabama
as a freshman. I lost track of how many defensive
starters made the NFL from that Alabama team, but he
torched them. And then last year he wasn't phenomenal against
(13:18):
Ohio State, which had I think two starting quarterbacks taken
in the first round in Okuda and our Nett our
Nette was overdrafted. But nevertheless, Lawrence obviously had that spectacular
run for the touchdown, like he was very good in
that game. I mean, I don't know, Dan, I don't
want to call you a hater, but you're you're killing
Lawrence here. I mean, there's a guy who many people say, Um,
(13:39):
he's probably the best prospect to come out since Andrew Luck. Um,
it sounds like maybe you're just not as in on him.
Let's go here after you take on that. Who do
you like from the quarterback class here? Absolutely? I mean
it's just a general phiel, you know, Jason. I mean,
when I have forty years of watching quarterbacks, I've I've
(13:59):
seen all the greats, I've seen all the people come
through the league. Um, you know, and one of the
advantages at that point of having that kind of like
you know, storage and quarterbacks compared to when I stack
up Trevor Lawrence against what I've seen come through this
league from Dan Marino on all the way down, I'm
just not feeling and I'm just not seeing it. And
then the Sports Illustrated thing really took me back. I mean,
(14:20):
if there was ever a red flag which I wrote about,
that's it. I mean, a guy who comes out, he says,
his father says, and wife says, those are closes his
high school coach and hey, listen, this guy doesn't you know,
his son doesn't rise and said on a Super Bowl trophy,
this guy doesn't and he can take it or leave it. Um,
you know, that's a huge concern for me. I'm an
aspiring general manager myself, and and if I have a
guy that says, hey, you know, I can take it
(14:41):
or leave it, that that's that's cool with me. I
mean that that's not the guy point blank that I
want underneath my center when a game is on the seat,
you know, on the line, when the season is on
the line. But you know, getting past that to your
to your other question, who do I like? I really like? Um?
I like Justin Fields a lot. I think he is
more pro ready. I think he's more polished. Um. I
(15:02):
like the athleticism. I think when you're going to a
team that's struggling, like the top five team is, it's
coming off a losing record last year. I think he's
a guy with that athleticism match with being pro ready
in the Polish I see in his throws. He's an
intelligent guy that can make all the throws. Um, something
about Field just I mean, he's my number one quarterback
in the draft. Number two is Matt Jones. Um, wow,
(15:26):
it's it's yeah. Listen that. Just to be clear, I
couldn't find the Lawrence picture with the gun. I mean
mac Jones got a d U. I two of them.
Of them actually, I think two d u s okay um. Also,
there was a photo of him floating around with some
Halloween costume that may or may not have been culturally insensitive.
I'm not digging into that. But like I mean Matt
(15:47):
Jones question, I mean, he had more all Americans on
the on the Alabama offense than the entire Big ten
and Big twelve combined and what was clearly the worst
in the SEC. Ever, I mean, I'm stunned that you
like Matt Jones. I I got here at Matt Jones
and this is really good set and set maybe set
(16:08):
you back a little bit more, I I don't know.
And I love how you come back with the stuff.
I love your your thought process, you know, and I
love to be challenged. Um you know it's it's nice.
And listen, I'm not going to bring on some cheerleader here.
I agree with everything I gotta say. I I definitely
like it. And just to get you ready, I've got
the Jets drafts that you guys had with Bill Parcels.
They were terrible. No, uh, well, we'll dig into them later.
(16:32):
I know it's the whole room picking. But anyway, so
I was I was in the pro deprimance. It doesn't count.
But anyways, all right, but anyways, uh, you know, Matt Jones,
I mean this is really I mean, this is how
I feel. I mean there's certain images and obviously, I
mean I was born in seventy three, I'm dating myself
and forty seven. But I mean this is a little bit,
you know, predates my time. But I keep thinking about
(16:54):
Joe Namath when I watch, and it keeps going through
my mind what I've seen a Joe Namath. This guy
is so polished to me in the pocket and so
pro ready. He has such a I mean, the game
has wonder lost they say about from the neck up,
and there's so many things that I feel like, Wow,
this guy's really got to me. If I was a
GM right now of the Jets, pick number two is
(17:16):
gonna be Matt Jones because I feel like, because it takes,
it takes a certain toughness. I mean, when you think
the New York quarterbacks, you know, the names come to mind,
like like like you know, Boomer Science and kennel'brien and
Phil Simms and Jeff Hosteller and Eli Manning and and
these guys that have thicker skin, guys that have, you know,
a little bit rougher edge to him, and guys that
(17:38):
can stand there. Joe Namath, why tittle going way back
to the polo grounds, I mean a bart star when
he came in there for a while. I mean, these
guys with with the Giants, with Lombardi. You know, these
guys are are tough guys. Matt Jones has got that toughness.
He's got that swag if you will. He's got the
ability and the thing. And to your point, Jason, yes,
I mean he had all the great players and all
(17:58):
the great receivers. But the thing that I loved about
him almost the most, as he threw a lot what
I call the receiver friendly football's and and what I
mean by that is is he threw the ball. And
that's why we saw a guy like Jalen Wattle with
with great yak ability yards after the catch, because he
put the ball where it needed to be, where the
receiver can run through it or continue running or running
(18:21):
and score a touchdown. That the ball placement is very
important in the NFL. I loved his ball placement. I
liked the accuracy, I like to swag, the toughness and mechanics,
the arms. He is a polished I'm gonna come out
and say it on this show. He is a polished,
pro ready version of Trevor Lawrence. He has the oh yes, wait,
(18:43):
are we still talking about the same Mac Jones guy
who couldn't beat out Jalen Hurts, the guy who couldn't
beat out to U. And then you watch to after
we get to the league, he had Henry Ruggs, Jerry
Judy Wattle Smith, one of the best receiving rooms in
the history of college football arguably. Then you will get
to the league and it's like, oh, I don't know
what we have here, to the point that Miami was
(19:04):
willing to trade him allegedly in some package for Deshaun
Watson before Watson's life fell apart. But I mean, we're
talking about this guy who started sixteen games in Mac.
I think it's sixteen, right, Yeah. I mean, it's just
a it's a feeling that I have. I can't describe
it of them the way I am. It's just I
feel like he played for Nick Saban, arguably the greatest
(19:25):
coach in the history of college football, I think that,
you know, I I just see a guy like that.
I mean, I mean, obviously he's probably not going to
go to the whole Free World. Thinks it's gonna be
Zack Wilson. I'm sure probably Zack Wilson. Mac will probably
logically fall a little bit. I think I think my
old boss, uh you know, with parcels with Coach Billichick
up there up in New England. I think Coach Billichick,
(19:47):
I'll say it here on the show. I think he's
gonna make a very strong play for Mac Jones. And
I think at fifteen and I think that's that's I
think that's his guy. When he's looking at this, you know,
people say, hey, look at Matt Jones. Look at his body.
You know, they have a picture of him without a
shirt on floating around. Hey, go pull up the I'm
not you, but I'm the saying our audience, go pull
(20:08):
pull up the picture of Tom Brady. I mean, you
talked to talk about a fronty body coming out. I
just think there's a lot of similarities. And I do
know one thing for an absolute fact is that Nick
Saban is going to give intel to his friend Bill Bilichick,
who used to work on staff with that he's not
gonna give anybody else in the league. Um, you know,
I think the big concern is that the US, who
(20:29):
knows how big of a problem that really is, that
can factor and play into it. But when I look
at prol ready quarterbacks, I say, this is a guy
that can step into the lights, is done at the
highest level in college, and a guy who can can
take a team, uh like the Jets and lead him.
That that's the guy I mean. And now we go
back for the media New York. Um, and you send
a kid in a soft kid, a kid who grew
(20:51):
up in privilege like by Zach Wilson, a kid who
I think is very soft. If you send him into
New York, I think it's gonna be a paper shredder
on and off the field. But if you semon a
guy like like Mac Jones, um you know, I think
I think he would do well. So I like him.
I like Justin Fields, and I also have an affinity
for Kyle Trask. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
(21:11):
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
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I think I got where why you like some of
these quarterbacks, Danny Daniel Um, let me ask you this.
Did you like Josh Allen coming out of Wyoming? I
did not evaluate him coming out of Wyoming. In all fairness,
(21:34):
I'm going on a small sample size. Yeah, Josh Allen
was extremely good. He's proven me wrong. I was not
a believer coming out of Wyoming. Um, but it almost
sounds like you're gravitating towards like big names, big schools,
big coaches, and you know, you know I In one
of your right ups, you said, like Jack Wilson didn't
play anybody. I would agree, but Ben Roethlisberger Miami of
(21:55):
Ohio coming out not really mobile. I mean, okay, Scrambler
played a bad UH schedule. Kurt Water it was like
bagging groceries. Brett for Southern. It's like there's been a
lot of guys who have come through and become superstars.
I mean, Tony Romo was never a superstar, but he
was a very good quarterback out of Easter Little Illinois.
How much value do you put in small school guys
(22:17):
versus the big school guys. It doesn't marry me where
a guy really it's good comes from I mean, I know,
it's the first time we've ever spoken. It's just a
it's a feeling. It's it's just when I watched the tape.
But I turned the tape, it's like, yeah, this guy
has got it. This guy doesn't. So I don't play
a lot of that into it. I I look at
the at the mechanics. I look at the technical aspects
of the quarterback position, and I look at the ball
(22:39):
placement accuracy, and I look at at the intangibles. I
mean that those are you know, like like when I
was with the Jets, Um, you know, I had one
major interaction with coach Parcelves when we sat out with
me one day. It was only him and I in
the lunch room, and um, he said, hey, listen, I mean,
and when he spoke you listen, you know, and he said,
if there's one thing I want you to do here, Daniel,
it's to learn the critic cool factors of scouting. And
(23:01):
I didn't even know what he was talking about. I
was like, well, thank you, coach, and and but I
later came to find out these are the intangibles, these
are the things that are not seen. And so when
I'm watching the film to your to your question, Jason,
I'm looking at guys that if it resonates with me
or or it does and it doesn't matter so much,
but school they come from. Now one of the big
(23:22):
things for Bill Parcels this is going back, I don't know,
thirty years or more quarterback drafting rules. Everybody's applied this
to a lot of the quarterbacks the last couple of years.
Bill Parcels wanted a three year starter, right. He wanted
someone who graduate from school starting a minimum of thirty games.
He wanted at least sixty completions Like Josh Allen didn't
(23:45):
take any of those boxes, at least in memory serves.
He still is on track to you know. I mean
he was an MVP candidate this past year. Um, Trevor
Lawrence fits check several of these boxes. You don't like him.
Matt Jones checks none of uh and you love him.
That's you know. I almost wonder if mac Jones had
(24:07):
been good enough to beat out hurt Or two ah,
and we had two years, like, would we be picking
apart Mac Jones? Well, he wasn't that good. I mean,
have you looked at the Auburn game? Uh? Not this
past year. But the year but prior, I mean I
think he had a sixty yard pick six and then
a one yard pick six and you watch that and
you're like, wow, this guy he ain't got it. Now
(24:28):
he did bounce back strong this year. Um, but I
guess any final thoughts on on you know, the quarterback
situation in this draft? You where are you on trade
lance Trey Lance? I haven't the UFA on drafted free agent.
I'm not. I'm not big on Tray Lance at all.
Trey Lance is a guy that when I first I
(24:48):
did a fall evaluation on him, Jason and I did
a spring evaluation on because I was on a podcast
last fall and someone brought him up to me. So
I looked at him and I said to myself, you
know what this this is a poor man's version a
Doman McNab. He's a guy that's got average playing speed
on his feet, he's got average arm strength. Uh, he's
pretty you know, sometimes a erradic. The accuracy is not there.
(25:09):
It just seemed like he ran kind of a version
of the option offense. I said to myself, you know,
this is probably a fifth or sixth round draft pick.
Somebody can maybe make the practice squad. Somebody maybe has
a little bit of upside you can work with, can
run the scout team. Um. Then all of a sudden,
this explosion happened like like like just I mean, he came,
he went, went to the first round discussion like on
(25:30):
an America like wide basis, and I was stunned. I've
never seen I've never seen. Um, you know, someone tried
to manufacture a first round draft pick more than trade Lance.
I mean they have a couple pro days. He throws
the ball in jim shorts, he throws it to his buddies,
he rolls out, he does this that the other and
(25:51):
everybody all of a sudden thinks that he's you know,
it's to me, it's amazing because it is. If anything,
he reminds me of like a Jason camp Uh in
this shown you know Kaiser who who? But without the
arm strength, Um, you know, Lances that would have been
way better. Uh what do you go to Green Bay? Yeah?
Well first and Jason Campbell was a starter I think
(26:16):
on an undefeated Auburn team. Um well wait, let me
let me quickly ask you on Lance, like you keep
using the word feeling to describe some of this. Uh,
you know, Matt Jones feeling on Trevor Lawrence, where are
you on the analytics because you know the analytics crowd
which looks at some of the traits that these guys
have with hand size and measurement and uh t D
(26:37):
interception ratio and all that fun stuff. Um, the analytics
look pretty good on trade Lands. Yeah. I know he's
super young, and he's probably a guy who needs to
sit for a year maybe two. Um, but I don't
know where are you on the analytics versus feeling. I
know football, and we talked about this with Warren Sharp.
Football is heading towards analytics. Baseball has been there for
two decades. Basketball super popular and aalytics over the last
(27:01):
you know, seven eight years, and it's starting to come
to football. How do you marry analytics and feeling? Well,
you look at it and you see if the tow
actually emerge on film and and so, I mean I
look at some of that stuff. I'm not somebody into
your point Chas, And you're right, the game is headed
more towards analytics, um, and uh in the study analytics,
(27:21):
I think the Cleveland Browns are kind of the front
runners with that with what with what they're doing there
and the whole moneyball thing and everything else. Um, you know,
I think that you know to to do you just
look at I mean there there's some some you know,
just look at the numbers and the measurements. I've never
been that guy that just you know, I look at
the heart of the player. I look at the intangibles.
I look at the feeling. That's just the kind of
(27:42):
who I am. I'm kind of an instinctial scout. Uh,
It's it's you know, when when I look at the
analytics part. But I remember, you know, having a conversation
and my Jets interview when I walked in there. I'm
surprised to this day I got the job because in
my draft book I sell publishing sounds, my resume three
age book and all the prospects, all the teams that
(28:02):
that's what the Jets called me in on and for
my interview and my first part of my interview, all
of a sudden, I walked into the into the building,
and my first part of my interview was with Dick Hayley,
who's a scouting legend, a guy who's been in the
league for like forty years at this point was the
architect in the nineteen seventies Pittsburgh Steelers dynasty. And walk
in his office. He's got one of the Super Bowl
rings on salt pepper hair, nice sue tailored walks up. Hey,
(28:24):
welcome to the Jets. You know, all of a sudden,
there's this little round table sing in the back of
the room, and there's since my book open and uh,
you know, all of a sudden it's open to the
page that the guy they drafted it they had a
high second round pick that they didn't have a first
rounder because they said to New England for ourselves. But
with their first you know, their first pick they had
was a high second. They drafted a defensive end. If
(28:44):
you recall the name of all Dorian Booze on a
Washington state. Yeah, and and so so all of a
sudden and you know, they draft him as their top pick.
And in my draft book I set up, you know,
my resume be that they called me in the half
by interview with UH and was laying in front of me.
I rated Dorian Booze was an uncraftable reject. You know.
So so here I'm here, I'm saying here, I'm saying
(29:06):
as with scouting a legend. And and he's you know,
a very gracious, very comfortable his own skin. You know,
he's telling me stories about how you know, Dorian had
a you know, the biggest hand size me and Joe Green,
and this is a guy that drafted Terry Bradshaw and
Frankel Harris and all that, and Lynd Swan and all
the grads and you know, Stalworth and and and I'm
listening to the hand. He told me all about the
(29:27):
analytics to measurements, all the stuff Dorian had. And he
looked at me and he said, just on curiosity, why
do you feel the way that you feel? And you know,
and he had this conversation with me. I said, listen,
the guy just didn't play with hard. I thought he
was too soft at the point I didn't think he
had any fight in him. And and you know, it
was amazing. And he just kind of sat there with
a little grin on his face and shook his hand
and said, well, we'll see. I appreciate your respect, your opinion.
(29:49):
You did the work on him. And he turned out
to be Parcel's biggest frustration during my time there. He
was always a guy they were doing the Texas thing
when they call him in you know the whistle, they
call him at the center and you know that there
and the pounded on each other, and it was I
think they called that the Oklahoma drill. I just looked
this up. Dorry and Booze forty four games as a
defensive end in the NFL second round pick zero sacks. UM,
(30:13):
So that one didn't quite pan out. Now that year
prior the Jets. Now you you got there before the
ninety seven draft or after after I got there, and
it was the summer of the season, right before the
an f C championship run that year with ourselves, I'm
guessing they didn't um. They didn't have a first round
pick in ninety eight for whatever reason, but Scott Frost
(30:34):
that the college football coach went in the third round. Uh.
That draft was not very kind to them, although they
did get Jason Fabini, a tackle I had a nice career.
And then in nine they were just they went over basically.
I mean, Randy Thomas is starting guard, but that's it.
Nobody else did anything. And then two thousand, were you
there in two thousand or no? Yes, Okay, that was
(30:56):
a good draft. They got Shaun Ellis in the first
round and John A. Braham back to back at twelve
and thirteen defensive ends. Um Abraham, is he in the
Hall of Fame? If not, he should be probably close, right, Yeah, yeah,
obviously Chad Hinnington, did you like him coming out of Marshall?
I didn't get chest to see chat. I was so
submersed in pro scouting. I mean literally we worked, you know,
(31:17):
about twelve and seventeen hours a day in pro. We
supported the college departments. But there was I mean there
was so much to do and so much to watch.
I mean it was around the clock, around the calendar,
eleven months of the year. There was so much. I mean,
there's so much different things to study. A salary cap
free agency, um, you know, uh all I was in
charge of all the boards, like making all the boards.
I worked with Mike Tannebaum, you know, playing a salary
(31:39):
cap board together. Um, you know, in Scott Pioli's you know,
hit his board, keeping all the roster straight, all the
all the making all the player profile tapes. I mean
they're you know, getting checking wings whatever they wanted me
to do it. For game playing, it was always something
to do. Go get a player at the airport, do this,
do that. So there wasn't really any per se downtime.
And then my third season I became the special team
scout with the Jet and that was all just I
(32:01):
wrote that three page both of value every every kickoff,
kickoff return, punt punt returner player in the NFL, and
so I mean this is all consuming. So I mean
there's more prospects than there is time unfortunately. Yeah, that's incredible.
I mean it kind of sounds like fun. Let me
what one final thing on the analytics versus the feeling?
So UM one of the big analytical measures UM is spark,
(32:23):
sp A r a Q and you know they're able
to take hand size, the three cone whatever all the
numbers are and they put them in a UM formula
and it spits out numbers. So a guy like Jason
on Way, oh wait sorry, the defensive end edge rusher
from Penn State at zero sacks last year, no sacks,
which is crazy, how do you draft the guy? But
(32:44):
the analytics in terms of his forty time and the
shuttle and all that stuff, he's off the charts. How
do you handle an analysis for a guy like Jason Oway. Well,
that's the thing is is I I lean heavily on
the film, you know, so that that's really what this
comes down to, you know, I mean Jerry Glanville, I mean,
I'm not gonna go as far as as he did
with some of the stuff by the old coach of
(33:05):
the Falcons. You know, he called the NFL scouting combine
the underwear Olympics. You know, it's it's and and and
Jerry Glanville got run on the NFL in a rail.
So I don't want to go too far with this stuff.
But but you know, the thing of it is is
that you know, it's a game of football, and that's
what I'm most interesting. I want to see a guy
where the pads, put on the helmet, debuncle the cham
strap and go. Um. I mean, you know, watching a
(33:28):
guy run through run around cones and jump and do
all these kinds of things. I mean, there's a time
and a place for it. Um. You know. I think
the real thing I like to see off the field
is the interviews. I like, you know, the idea of
a chance to look a guy in the eyes, that
asking questions and kind of get a feel for where
his heart, where he's going. When it's convictions are and
what is what is what's his motives are? But I
mean as far as the analytics and all the drills
(33:49):
and all stuff, I think more teams have made mistakes,
you know, relying on the analytics solely, like you're talking
about with him that the kid from Penn State. I
think they've relied on the nlics too. Touch. I think
that you know players, you know, teams have fallen in
love with guys at the scouting combine, especially at the
pro days. Um. You know, I mean trade Lance out
there running around me. There's no defensive pressure anything. I
(34:10):
want to see what the guy looks like. I mean
anybody could. I mean, I venture to say, any able
bodied college quarterback in America to go out there and
make the throws, the trade lances making with Jim shirts
on with his friends and the dome inside. You know,
it's something where I want to see what a guy
looks like on your tape about yeah, mostly with you,
but I would, I would. I would argue if you
(34:31):
put Mac Jones at North Dakota State and you put
Tray Lance at Alabama, are we looking at a totally
different situation? Maybe given the structure, because and listen. I'm
with you on the tape. Obviously, you gotta watch and
see if the trades match up with the production and
the schemes. But certain guys, under certain incredible coaches um
(34:51):
can look great. And we know Saban to an extent
has worned down his players to the point that when
they get to the NFL, there's nothing left. You know,
he grind of the dusk that that's a speculative on
a lot of deffensive push. I'll get you out of
here on this because we've gone too long. I'm sure,
I know you've got a lot of stuff to do.
But Daniel, give me a guy who I don't know,
not first round, not getting any noise, but you know,
(35:13):
maybe a midround prospect who people have heard of that
you absolutely love. That he is not getting enough love
right now. Well, you could talk about a couple of guys.
I mean, Kyle Trask is a guy that that's you know,
we've heard him go anywhere from the first and the
fourth round. Trask is a lot of We've got a
lot of intangibles. There's a lot you know that It's
kind of funny because he does he's very inconsistent. He'll
(35:34):
do the same thing very well, and he'll do the
act same thing not so well. But he's got this
intangible to him of being a winner. So I mean,
that's one name off throughout this guy. I don't know
where he's gonna land. But you know, I don't know
about a mid round guy first saying, but when you
first mentioned the question, the guy that really jumps out
that I'm shocked it's not in the first round discussion
is a running back from North Carolina who I love
(35:57):
Javonte Williams. Javonte Williams is my pick for Rookie of
the Year. I'll come on your show and first guy
first rounder. Right, Well, I've heard anywhere from second maybe
possibly you know, high third, maybe in the first round
discussion that you know, everyone's so afraid to take a
running back these days in the first round. You can
give me any time type of thing. Um, you know,
(36:17):
I think a guy like Javonte Williams. I mean, this
is somebody who's a very tough runner. He's got some
Walter Payton in him. I mean what I mean by
that he'll kind of you kind of look okay, oh yeah,
it's gonna get good. He can kind of look at
the defender he wants to run him over. I mean,
he's a very tough, aggressive, dominant runner who's got very
good at hands and when we can catch the ball
(36:38):
in the backfield and so what I mean good at hands.
I mean he's not just a checkdown safety bell. But
this is a guy who can go deep along the
sidelines as well. Um. I think he's Aaron Jones only better. Um.
And I think if a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers
were to take him, I think he'll run him straight
into the playoffs. This is a guy who I think
is gonna be a really good running back and somebody
I really look at as is being is being that
(37:01):
guy that maybe he's not getting a lot of love
right now or talked about a lot. But this is
gonna be a guy that's gonna make a loud noise
and I venture to say, become a household name in America.
So you would take him over Naj Harris from Mount Yes,
and over E T. N from Clemson. Yes, bullish all right,
Javonte Wives, that's the guy to watch. Rookie of the Year. Hey,
Daniel Kelly, thanks so much for the time. I love this.
(37:23):
I do love chopping it up divergent opinions. I respect it. Um,
you have to do the homework right you know, Yeah,
me too, Jets guy. All right, Daniel, keep up the
good work and enjoy the draft. Sounds good. Thank you
so much, Jason for down and privilege of being on
your show today
This is straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up,
ladies and gentlemen, It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for Thursday,
April twenty second. What a night in the NBA. So
many crazy games, madness occurring all over the place. The
(00:25):
Knicks continue to win. They beat the Hawks in overtime.
Trey Young got hurt too and doesn't look good for
the Hawks. But again, we're not here to break down
every single NBA regular season game. As much as rob
G wants me to talk about the Warriors taking an
l on their road trip in Washington and m v
(00:47):
P leader Steph Curry going seven for twenty five two
for fourteen from deep only scored eighteen points. As much
as you guys want to beat up Curry for that,
go for it, that's fine, that's fine, you know, go
fire away, let it all out, get it off your chest.
We've got a great podcast for you, and it has
(01:07):
nothing to do with the NBA. I gotta give credit
where credit is due. Rob G found an awesome guest
for the NFL Draft. A lot of you like Warren Sharp,
and I'm curious what the reaction is going to be
to today's guest. His name is Daniel Kelly. He is
a former UH scout with the New York Jets, dating
(01:28):
back to the Bill Parcels area. He was in the
league for a minute and now he is writing for
si dot com, a blog covering the NFL for them,
And um, I just gotta say you guys know, if
you follow me on social media, you know I don't
like the haters. I'm like, come on, guys, life is
(01:49):
too short to hate. Okay, It's just too It is
like life is good. For instance, yesterday I played about
two hours of basketball and it felt amazing. I was
exhausted at the end of it. A good run. I
lost our first game, not just me, but our team
lost the first game, and then we didn't lose the
(02:09):
rest of the day. It was a great run. I'm
I'm totally spent today. It's gonna be a long one
for me. But like, life is good, okay. Jake Paul
may fight Floyd Mayweather, Like, come on, like this is
this is comical? Yes, that's a real thing. I don't
know if it's confirmed. Let's see what the news comes
out later today. But Jake Pulvers Floyd Mayweather maybe a
(02:31):
thing okay, and the NBA's popping. The NFL Draft is
a week from today. Um, listen, I'm not going to
dive into too much stuff because we've got a great interview.
But just sit back by the way, another headliner guests coming.
If you thought Warren Sharp was good, we had Jake
Billis recently, We've got a lot of big time guests.
(02:54):
Friday's guest is a big one. Okay, So I want
you to today enjoy Daniel Kelly and we talked about
the NFL Draft. He is a big hater. He does
not like Trevor Lawrence. He likes Mac Jones. You can
imagine how this goes. Listen. I like challenging people. Um,
there are a lot of challenges in this podcast. I
(03:16):
hope you guys enjoy it. Remember subscribe, rate and review.
Here's our guest, Daniel Kelly. Jason likes to think he
knows everything when it comes to sports. I know what
sports dance want, but for everything he doesn't. He knows
a guy who does. Let's just say I know a
(03:38):
guy who knows a guy who knows another guy. All right,
let's welcome into straight fire. It's draft season, people, and
we're bringing in a unique voice. Here. We had Warren
Sharp yesterday and today we're bringing in Daniel Kelly. He's
on SI dot com. He used to be a scout
for Drumroll Please my New York Jets in the Bill
(04:01):
Parcels era. Daniel, how are you? Manyn't do Jason, thank
you so much for having me on your show. Yeah,
you know, we're always trying to bring in unique voices guys.
Maybe we can do some mainstream, some off the mainstream.
And then when producer Rob told me about your story,
I was like, Okay, we gotta get this guy in here.
And Daniel, I'm gonna I'm gonna come out right out
(04:22):
of the gate and say, you know, I was looking
at a lot of the guys that we're gonna talk
about here for the draft, and Daniel, you don't like
a lot of these guys, man. Yeah, hate Zack Wilson,
you're drashing Trevor Lawrence. Daniel, goodness, gracious, where would you
like to begin? Well, I tell you we can we
begin with those guys, I guess, but absolutely I'm on
(04:43):
the island, like literally and figurably, I live in Key West,
Florida's so I'm definitely yeah, one of those voices that's
standing alone some of these guys. But like I always
like to say Jason to our listeners, that film does
not lie. And these guys they put themselves in film
and scouting's act. You're pretty easy. You just write what
you see, and that's what I've done. That's what I'm
(05:03):
seeing at least of these guys. Now. The interesting thing
about film and I saw, I forget who it was.
I feel like it's a former quarterback put this tweet
out that, Um, only like a few thousand people really
know what to watch for on tape. Because now with YouTube, Daniel,
I'm gonna be honest, I could go on YouTube and
you can call up any player you want and you
(05:24):
can watch every single Jalen Waddle snap from his career
at Alabama, and you could do this for so many
players it's crazy. So now you have a lot of
guys on social media saying, well, I watched the tape
of this guy, I know him. Um, obviously not everybody's
watching the right things when it comes to tape. So
why don't we look at a guy like Laurence and
tell me what you see that you don't really like? Well,
(05:45):
I do. I look at his full body of work.
You know. One of the things when I worked at
the jetson er Bill Parcels and I was in the
pro department with Scott Pioli, his son in law, was that,
you know, Scott always told me, you know, make sure
that you're not, you know, like watching a lot of
highlight films and you're certainly not producing highlight films. And
what Scott meant by that is he said, well, you know,
(06:07):
anybody can look really great on a film, or you
can make him look great, or they can look really bad,
or you can make him look bad. So he really
taught me that, you know, the value which I already
kind of knew, but he really further instilled in me
the value of watching the player's full body of work.
And so when I go back and look at these guys,
I look at everything, uh, you know, all the throws
(06:28):
as you mentioned, and with with Trevor Lawrence, there's a
lot of like, I'm not sitting here saying, hey, the
guy is a dog. I you know, there's nothing to
like about it. He knows nothing I like about it,
because I have a list of things that I like
about him. I mean, he's got nice size at six six, Um,
you know, he's got a cannon for an arm. He
looks like he's been very well schooled and well coached.
(06:49):
And the technical aspects of playing quarterback in the pocket.
You know, he's got that play action fake and that
pump fake he uses in almost every play, which is
kind of becoming more and more of a trend. And
college football teams. Um, you know, he does a lot
of things. Um, you know, he he's got some nice
touch and accuracy at times. You know, he can really
launch it. Like I said, you know, there's a lot
(07:09):
of things to like about him. His pocket poise, his presence.
I mean, in the pocket he looks really good. But
but watching the full body of work is where some
of the things start to break down. And scouting is
really like being a private investigator. You know, you kind
of keep notes. I keep notebooks, and page of the
page of the notes, I start seeing trends and identifying
(07:30):
baselines and things that they do well and things they
don't do well. And one of the things that really
concerned me about Trevor Lawrence is it almost seemed Jason
like he was what I call manipulating college defenses. I mean,
he's a guy that's always had this incredible raw ability
we've all seen come up um and it seems kind
of like he's taken advantage of situations through the use
(07:53):
of the mechanics, like through the play action and through
the pump fakes. He's able to momentarily freeze defense is
in the freeze corners, maybe in safety is that aren't
as good, so his receivers can achieve better route leverage.
And it seems almost like that's what he's been doing
a lot of the time. Because what became more and
more exposed the more I watched was what I feel
(08:14):
Jason to our listeners was an absolute inability of his
to throw what timing routes, especially at the intermediate level.
I think this is gonna be a huge problem in
the NFL because offenses are predicated on throwing timing routes
a lot of the time. If you watch Trevor carefully
and watch all his throws, he waits until the receiver
(08:36):
is either coming open or as wide open before he
releases the ball. You can't do that in the National
Football League. You have to throw before the receiver makes
his break. On the intermediate routes. I think that's gonna
be a big problem. Sometimes he has a tendency also
to lock in with his receivers. That's another big no note.
Another thing I look at is this big wind up
(08:57):
he has in the pocket. He's got the big arm,
the big frame, And you know, we really haven't seen
a quarterback at this size, maybe since a Dan McGuire
came out years and years ago at six foot eights,
um Mark's brother. And we see this, you know, the
Oakland A's. We see this big along gated you know
this throwing motion. Well that's okay, But what happens is
corners are trained. You know, Corners are kind of like
(09:19):
sharks of the water when you throw a blood in
the ocean. Corners watch for these things, especial for the veterans.
And so what a in a long gate at throwing
motion does is give a veteran savvy corner an extra
second or two the jump, and all of a sudden,
we see him on ESPN, you know, as elite in
the evening time, um as a pick six. So some
of those things really concern me. At the intermediate level.
(09:42):
I think Trevor is a guy that can throw I mean,
he can put some real mustard on the ball. He's
got it. Really the strongest arm of anybody in this
draft class, there's no question. But but you know, the
short game, he's pretty good on. UM. In the long
game he's pretty good on but but the intermediate route
is the bread and butter for lock quarterbacks in the NFL,
and I think he's really gonna struggle. I did say
(10:03):
my report, Jason, if you guys check it out on
Draft Diamonds dot com. Um, you know, it's something where
I think that if you had an offense like the
old school L. Davis, Uh, you know, everybody just run.
You got a bunch of receivers around a four to
four E. Everybody just clears out and go routes. I
think that's his best chance to succeed if you're gonna
put him in a traditional offense. I really kind of
(10:26):
questioned some things. And he also plays in the shotgun primarily,
which is another concern, especially to me at that height,
bringing him under center is going to be an adjustment.
It's wet, new cast of characters. And I also feel
that he was really dependent on having a great running
back at Clemson and E T N and especially with
his play action that he likes to use to try
to cover up with inability to throw timing routes. So
(10:48):
he goes into let's say, at Jacksonville, which you know,
the Free World has him going to. I think that,
you know, if they don't have that franchise back there,
that also exposes him a little bit more. There's a
lot of cut terms that I have. I've outlined them
in my report online. And also there's a picture. Because
this is something a lot of fans don't look at.
Something more and more teams that start to look at,
(11:09):
especially in light of some of the off field stuff
we've seen, some of the you know, some of the
different problems and and things that we've seen, the criminal
activity and so forth. There's a picture of Trevor Lawrence
floating around online with him holding a handgun, um and
in a Florida get or sweater. I don't know if
you have you seen that, Jason, I have not. I'm
googling and now as you as you talk about it, Yeah,
(11:31):
it's pretty interesting. These are the type of things. There's actually,
um what I've been told from guys that are scouting
directors in the NFL more and more teams are are
starting to even hire guys that can just dig in
the social media. This is something that there's any aspiring
scouts out there, This may be an in and the avenue.
Instead of just writting scout reports and everybody, you might
(11:52):
want to start digging and looking at some of the background,
looking at social media. Now most of these guys have agents, obviously,
and the agents have really cleared up and cleaned up
a lot of the top prospects of twitters and things
at this at this point. But it's interesting once in
a while you come up with the gem. Do you
see the picture at all? Jason? I mean nothing on
Google Images. Maybe it's like you're right, Maybe the agents
(12:14):
they can get on there and get stuff spread and
get it off the web. But I don't know. I
guess I got I'm stunned, Daniel. I mean, listen a
ton of Trevor Lawrence stuff out there we're talking about.
I don't want to call him like a Bible thumper,
but he's extremely religious, clean background. Although you know, you
could say DeShawn Watson had a clean background, um and
(12:34):
like a lot of the critique you had, um, you know,
I would say, like Hey, I mean, Chuck's Justin Fields
had many worse games than the worst game Lawrence had.
Matt Jones probably doesn't have a lot of terrible games
because well he only started sixteen. Like I wonder, Dan,
let me ask when you when you look at a
quarterback who's got three years as a starter as Lawrence does. Obvious,
(12:57):
so you can nip pick a ton. Matt Jones only
has one year as a starter, and then you know
he started what two games after two got hurt one
of them he had two pick six is um? I
mean you look at Lawrence what he did against Alabama
as a freshman. I lost track of how many defensive
starters made the NFL from that Alabama team, but he
torched them. And then last year he wasn't phenomenal against
(13:18):
Ohio State, which had I think two starting quarterbacks taken
in the first round in Okuda and our Nett our
Nette was overdrafted. But nevertheless, Lawrence obviously had that spectacular
run for the touchdown, like he was very good in
that game. I mean, I don't know, Dan, I don't
want to call you a hater, but you're you're killing
Lawrence here. I mean, there's a guy who many people say, Um,
(13:39):
he's probably the best prospect to come out since Andrew Luck. Um,
it sounds like maybe you're just not as in on him.
Let's go here after you take on that. Who do
you like from the quarterback class here? Absolutely? I mean
it's just a general phiel, you know, Jason. I mean,
when I have forty years of watching quarterbacks, I've I've
(13:59):
seen all the greats, I've seen all the people come
through the league. Um, you know, and one of the
advantages at that point of having that kind of like
you know, storage and quarterbacks compared to when I stack
up Trevor Lawrence against what I've seen come through this
league from Dan Marino on all the way down, I'm
just not feeling and I'm just not seeing it. And
then the Sports Illustrated thing really took me back. I mean,
(14:20):
if there was ever a red flag which I wrote about,
that's it. I mean, a guy who comes out, he says,
his father says, and wife says, those are closes his
high school coach and hey, listen, this guy doesn't you know,
his son doesn't rise and said on a Super Bowl trophy,
this guy doesn't and he can take it or leave it. Um,
you know, that's a huge concern for me. I'm an
aspiring general manager myself, and and if I have a
guy that says, hey, you know, I can take it
(14:41):
or leave it, that that's that's cool with me. I
mean that that's not the guy point blank that I
want underneath my center when a game is on the seat,
you know, on the line, when the season is on
the line. But you know, getting past that to your
to your other question, who do I like? I really like? Um?
I like Justin Fields a lot. I think he is
more pro ready. I think he's more polished. Um. I
(15:02):
like the athleticism. I think when you're going to a
team that's struggling, like the top five team is, it's
coming off a losing record last year. I think he's
a guy with that athleticism match with being pro ready
in the Polish I see in his throws. He's an
intelligent guy that can make all the throws. Um, something
about Field just I mean, he's my number one quarterback
in the draft. Number two is Matt Jones. Um, wow,
(15:26):
it's it's yeah. Listen that. Just to be clear, I
couldn't find the Lawrence picture with the gun. I mean
mac Jones got a d U. I two of them.
Of them actually, I think two d u s okay um. Also,
there was a photo of him floating around with some
Halloween costume that may or may not have been culturally insensitive.
I'm not digging into that. But like I mean Matt
(15:47):
Jones question, I mean, he had more all Americans on
the on the Alabama offense than the entire Big ten
and Big twelve combined and what was clearly the worst
in the SEC. Ever, I mean, I'm stunned that you
like Matt Jones. I I got here at Matt Jones
and this is really good set and set maybe set
(16:08):
you back a little bit more, I I don't know.
And I love how you come back with the stuff.
I love your your thought process, you know, and I
love to be challenged. Um you know it's it's nice.
And listen, I'm not going to bring on some cheerleader here.
I agree with everything I gotta say. I I definitely
like it. And just to get you ready, I've got
the Jets drafts that you guys had with Bill Parcels.
They were terrible. No, uh, well, we'll dig into them later.
(16:32):
I know it's the whole room picking. But anyway, so
I was I was in the pro deprimance. It doesn't count.
But anyways, all right, but anyways, uh, you know, Matt Jones,
I mean this is really I mean, this is how
I feel. I mean there's certain images and obviously, I
mean I was born in seventy three, I'm dating myself
and forty seven. But I mean this is a little bit,
you know, predates my time. But I keep thinking about
(16:54):
Joe Namath when I watch, and it keeps going through
my mind what I've seen a Joe Namath. This guy
is so polished to me in the pocket and so
pro ready. He has such a I mean, the game
has wonder lost they say about from the neck up,
and there's so many things that I feel like, Wow,
this guy's really got to me. If I was a
GM right now of the Jets, pick number two is
(17:16):
gonna be Matt Jones because I feel like, because it takes,
it takes a certain toughness. I mean, when you think
the New York quarterbacks, you know, the names come to mind,
like like like you know, Boomer Science and kennel'brien and
Phil Simms and Jeff Hosteller and Eli Manning and and
these guys that have thicker skin, guys that have, you know,
a little bit rougher edge to him, and guys that
(17:38):
can stand there. Joe Namath, why tittle going way back
to the polo grounds, I mean a bart star when
he came in there for a while. I mean, these
guys with with the Giants, with Lombardi. You know, these
guys are are tough guys. Matt Jones has got that toughness.
He's got that swag if you will. He's got the
ability and the thing. And to your point, Jason, yes,
I mean he had all the great players and all
(17:58):
the great receivers. But the thing that I loved about
him almost the most, as he threw a lot what
I call the receiver friendly football's and and what I
mean by that is is he threw the ball. And
that's why we saw a guy like Jalen Wattle with
with great yak ability yards after the catch, because he
put the ball where it needed to be, where the
receiver can run through it or continue running or running
(18:21):
and score a touchdown. That the ball placement is very
important in the NFL. I loved his ball placement. I
liked the accuracy, I like to swag, the toughness and mechanics,
the arms. He is a polished I'm gonna come out
and say it on this show. He is a polished,
pro ready version of Trevor Lawrence. He has the oh yes, wait,
(18:43):
are we still talking about the same Mac Jones guy
who couldn't beat out Jalen Hurts, the guy who couldn't
beat out to U. And then you watch to after
we get to the league, he had Henry Ruggs, Jerry
Judy Wattle Smith, one of the best receiving rooms in
the history of college football arguably. Then you will get
to the league and it's like, oh, I don't know
what we have here, to the point that Miami was
(19:04):
willing to trade him allegedly in some package for Deshaun
Watson before Watson's life fell apart. But I mean, we're
talking about this guy who started sixteen games in Mac.
I think it's sixteen, right, Yeah. I mean, it's just
a it's a feeling that I have. I can't describe
it of them the way I am. It's just I
feel like he played for Nick Saban, arguably the greatest
(19:25):
coach in the history of college football, I think that,
you know, I I just see a guy like that.
I mean, I mean, obviously he's probably not going to
go to the whole Free World. Thinks it's gonna be
Zack Wilson. I'm sure probably Zack Wilson. Mac will probably
logically fall a little bit. I think I think my
old boss, uh you know, with parcels with Coach Billichick
up there up in New England. I think Coach Billichick,
(19:47):
I'll say it here on the show. I think he's
gonna make a very strong play for Mac Jones. And
I think at fifteen and I think that's that's I
think that's his guy. When he's looking at this, you know,
people say, hey, look at Matt Jones. Look at his body.
You know, they have a picture of him without a
shirt on floating around. Hey, go pull up the I'm
not you, but I'm the saying our audience, go pull
(20:08):
pull up the picture of Tom Brady. I mean, you
talked to talk about a fronty body coming out. I
just think there's a lot of similarities. And I do
know one thing for an absolute fact is that Nick
Saban is going to give intel to his friend Bill Bilichick,
who used to work on staff with that he's not
gonna give anybody else in the league. Um, you know,
I think the big concern is that the US, who
(20:29):
knows how big of a problem that really is, that
can factor and play into it. But when I look
at prol ready quarterbacks, I say, this is a guy
that can step into the lights, is done at the
highest level in college, and a guy who can can
take a team, uh like the Jets and lead him.
That that's the guy I mean. And now we go
back for the media New York. Um, and you send
a kid in a soft kid, a kid who grew
(20:51):
up in privilege like by Zach Wilson, a kid who
I think is very soft. If you send him into
New York, I think it's gonna be a paper shredder
on and off the field. But if you semon a
guy like like Mac Jones, um you know, I think
I think he would do well. So I like him.
I like Justin Fields, and I also have an affinity
for Kyle Trask. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
(21:11):
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I
Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live.
I think I got where why you like some of
these quarterbacks, Danny Daniel Um, let me ask you this.
Did you like Josh Allen coming out of Wyoming? I
did not evaluate him coming out of Wyoming. In all fairness,
(21:34):
I'm going on a small sample size. Yeah, Josh Allen
was extremely good. He's proven me wrong. I was not
a believer coming out of Wyoming. Um, but it almost
sounds like you're gravitating towards like big names, big schools,
big coaches, and you know, you know I In one
of your right ups, you said, like Jack Wilson didn't
play anybody. I would agree, but Ben Roethlisberger Miami of
(21:55):
Ohio coming out not really mobile. I mean, okay, Scrambler
played a bad UH schedule. Kurt Water it was like
bagging groceries. Brett for Southern. It's like there's been a
lot of guys who have come through and become superstars.
I mean, Tony Romo was never a superstar, but he
was a very good quarterback out of Easter Little Illinois.
How much value do you put in small school guys
(22:17):
versus the big school guys. It doesn't marry me where
a guy really it's good comes from I mean, I know,
it's the first time we've ever spoken. It's just a
it's a feeling. It's it's just when I watched the tape.
But I turned the tape, it's like, yeah, this guy
has got it. This guy doesn't. So I don't play
a lot of that into it. I I look at
the at the mechanics. I look at the technical aspects
of the quarterback position, and I look at the ball
(22:39):
placement accuracy, and I look at at the intangibles. I
mean that those are you know, like like when I
was with the Jets, Um, you know, I had one
major interaction with coach Parcelves when we sat out with
me one day. It was only him and I in
the lunch room, and um, he said, hey, listen, I mean,
and when he spoke you listen, you know, and he said,
if there's one thing I want you to do here, Daniel,
it's to learn the critic cool factors of scouting. And
(23:01):
I didn't even know what he was talking about. I
was like, well, thank you, coach, and and but I
later came to find out these are the intangibles, these
are the things that are not seen. And so when
I'm watching the film to your to your question, Jason,
I'm looking at guys that if it resonates with me
or or it does and it doesn't matter so much,
but school they come from. Now one of the big
(23:22):
things for Bill Parcels this is going back, I don't know,
thirty years or more quarterback drafting rules. Everybody's applied this
to a lot of the quarterbacks the last couple of years.
Bill Parcels wanted a three year starter, right. He wanted
someone who graduate from school starting a minimum of thirty games.
He wanted at least sixty completions Like Josh Allen didn't
(23:45):
take any of those boxes, at least in memory serves.
He still is on track to you know. I mean
he was an MVP candidate this past year. Um, Trevor
Lawrence fits check several of these boxes. You don't like him.
Matt Jones checks none of uh and you love him.
That's you know. I almost wonder if mac Jones had
(24:07):
been good enough to beat out hurt Or two ah,
and we had two years, like, would we be picking
apart Mac Jones? Well, he wasn't that good. I mean,
have you looked at the Auburn game? Uh? Not this
past year. But the year but prior, I mean I
think he had a sixty yard pick six and then
a one yard pick six and you watch that and
you're like, wow, this guy he ain't got it. Now
(24:28):
he did bounce back strong this year. Um, but I
guess any final thoughts on on you know, the quarterback
situation in this draft? You where are you on trade
lance Trey Lance? I haven't the UFA on drafted free agent.
I'm not. I'm not big on Tray Lance at all.
Trey Lance is a guy that when I first I
(24:48):
did a fall evaluation on him, Jason and I did
a spring evaluation on because I was on a podcast
last fall and someone brought him up to me. So
I looked at him and I said to myself, you
know what this this is a poor man's version a
Doman McNab. He's a guy that's got average playing speed
on his feet, he's got average arm strength. Uh, he's
pretty you know, sometimes a erradic. The accuracy is not there.
(25:09):
It just seemed like he ran kind of a version
of the option offense. I said to myself, you know,
this is probably a fifth or sixth round draft pick.
Somebody can maybe make the practice squad. Somebody maybe has
a little bit of upside you can work with, can
run the scout team. Um. Then all of a sudden,
this explosion happened like like like just I mean, he came,
he went, went to the first round discussion like on
(25:30):
an America like wide basis, and I was stunned. I've
never seen I've never seen. Um, you know, someone tried
to manufacture a first round draft pick more than trade Lance.
I mean they have a couple pro days. He throws
the ball in jim shorts, he throws it to his buddies,
he rolls out, he does this that the other and
(25:51):
everybody all of a sudden thinks that he's you know,
it's to me, it's amazing because it is. If anything,
he reminds me of like a Jason camp Uh in
this shown you know Kaiser who who? But without the
arm strength, Um, you know, Lances that would have been
way better. Uh what do you go to Green Bay? Yeah?
Well first and Jason Campbell was a starter I think
(26:16):
on an undefeated Auburn team. Um well wait, let me
let me quickly ask you on Lance, like you keep
using the word feeling to describe some of this. Uh,
you know, Matt Jones feeling on Trevor Lawrence, where are
you on the analytics because you know the analytics crowd
which looks at some of the traits that these guys
have with hand size and measurement and uh t D
(26:37):
interception ratio and all that fun stuff. Um, the analytics
look pretty good on trade Lands. Yeah. I know he's
super young, and he's probably a guy who needs to
sit for a year maybe two. Um, but I don't
know where are you on the analytics versus feeling. I
know football, and we talked about this with Warren Sharp.
Football is heading towards analytics. Baseball has been there for
two decades. Basketball super popular and aalytics over the last
(27:01):
you know, seven eight years, and it's starting to come
to football. How do you marry analytics and feeling? Well,
you look at it and you see if the tow
actually emerge on film and and so, I mean I
look at some of that stuff. I'm not somebody into
your point Chas, And you're right, the game is headed
more towards analytics, um, and uh in the study analytics,
(27:21):
I think the Cleveland Browns are kind of the front
runners with that with what with what they're doing there
and the whole moneyball thing and everything else. Um, you know,
I think that you know to to do you just
look at I mean there there's some some you know,
just look at the numbers and the measurements. I've never
been that guy that just you know, I look at
the heart of the player. I look at the intangibles.
I look at the feeling. That's just the kind of
(27:42):
who I am. I'm kind of an instinctial scout. Uh,
It's it's you know, when when I look at the
analytics part. But I remember, you know, having a conversation
and my Jets interview when I walked in there. I'm
surprised to this day I got the job because in
my draft book I sell publishing sounds, my resume three
age book and all the prospects, all the teams that
(28:02):
that's what the Jets called me in on and for
my interview and my first part of my interview, all
of a sudden, I walked into the into the building,
and my first part of my interview was with Dick Hayley,
who's a scouting legend, a guy who's been in the
league for like forty years at this point was the
architect in the nineteen seventies Pittsburgh Steelers dynasty. And walk
in his office. He's got one of the Super Bowl
rings on salt pepper hair, nice sue tailored walks up. Hey,
(28:24):
welcome to the Jets. You know, all of a sudden,
there's this little round table sing in the back of
the room, and there's since my book open and uh,
you know, all of a sudden it's open to the
page that the guy they drafted it they had a
high second round pick that they didn't have a first
rounder because they said to New England for ourselves. But
with their first you know, their first pick they had
was a high second. They drafted a defensive end. If
(28:44):
you recall the name of all Dorian Booze on a
Washington state. Yeah, and and so so all of a
sudden and you know, they draft him as their top pick.
And in my draft book I set up, you know,
my resume be that they called me in the half
by interview with UH and was laying in front of me.
I rated Dorian Booze was an uncraftable reject. You know.
So so here I'm here, I'm saying here, I'm saying
(29:06):
as with scouting a legend. And and he's you know,
a very gracious, very comfortable his own skin. You know,
he's telling me stories about how you know, Dorian had
a you know, the biggest hand size me and Joe Green,
and this is a guy that drafted Terry Bradshaw and
Frankel Harris and all that, and Lynd Swan and all
the grads and you know, Stalworth and and and I'm
listening to the hand. He told me all about the
(29:27):
analytics to measurements, all the stuff Dorian had. And he
looked at me and he said, just on curiosity, why
do you feel the way that you feel? And you know,
and he had this conversation with me. I said, listen,
the guy just didn't play with hard. I thought he
was too soft at the point I didn't think he
had any fight in him. And and you know, it
was amazing. And he just kind of sat there with
a little grin on his face and shook his hand
and said, well, we'll see. I appreciate your respect, your opinion.
(29:49):
You did the work on him. And he turned out
to be Parcel's biggest frustration during my time there. He
was always a guy they were doing the Texas thing
when they call him in you know the whistle, they
call him at the center and you know that there
and the pounded on each other, and it was I
think they called that the Oklahoma drill. I just looked
this up. Dorry and Booze forty four games as a
defensive end in the NFL second round pick zero sacks. UM,
(30:13):
So that one didn't quite pan out. Now that year
prior the Jets. Now you you got there before the
ninety seven draft or after after I got there, and
it was the summer of the season, right before the
an f C championship run that year with ourselves, I'm
guessing they didn't um. They didn't have a first round
pick in ninety eight for whatever reason, but Scott Frost
(30:34):
that the college football coach went in the third round. Uh.
That draft was not very kind to them, although they
did get Jason Fabini, a tackle I had a nice career.
And then in nine they were just they went over basically.
I mean, Randy Thomas is starting guard, but that's it.
Nobody else did anything. And then two thousand, were you
there in two thousand or no? Yes, Okay, that was
(30:56):
a good draft. They got Shaun Ellis in the first
round and John A. Braham back to back at twelve
and thirteen defensive ends. Um Abraham, is he in the
Hall of Fame? If not, he should be probably close, right, Yeah, yeah,
obviously Chad Hinnington, did you like him coming out of Marshall?
I didn't get chest to see chat. I was so
submersed in pro scouting. I mean literally we worked, you know,
(31:17):
about twelve and seventeen hours a day in pro. We
supported the college departments. But there was I mean there
was so much to do and so much to watch.
I mean it was around the clock, around the calendar,
eleven months of the year. There was so much. I mean,
there's so much different things to study. A salary cap
free agency, um, you know, uh all I was in
charge of all the boards, like making all the boards.
I worked with Mike Tannebaum, you know, playing a salary
(31:39):
cap board together. Um, you know, in Scott Pioli's you know,
hit his board, keeping all the roster straight, all the
all the making all the player profile tapes. I mean
they're you know, getting checking wings whatever they wanted me
to do it. For game playing, it was always something
to do. Go get a player at the airport, do this,
do that. So there wasn't really any per se downtime.
And then my third season I became the special team
scout with the Jet and that was all just I
(32:01):
wrote that three page both of value every every kickoff,
kickoff return, punt punt returner player in the NFL, and
so I mean this is all consuming. So I mean
there's more prospects than there is time unfortunately. Yeah, that's incredible.
I mean it kind of sounds like fun. Let me
what one final thing on the analytics versus the feeling?
So UM one of the big analytical measures UM is spark,
(32:23):
sp A r a Q and you know they're able
to take hand size, the three cone whatever all the
numbers are and they put them in a UM formula
and it spits out numbers. So a guy like Jason
on Way, oh wait sorry, the defensive end edge rusher
from Penn State at zero sacks last year, no sacks,
which is crazy, how do you draft the guy? But
(32:44):
the analytics in terms of his forty time and the
shuttle and all that stuff, he's off the charts. How
do you handle an analysis for a guy like Jason Oway. Well,
that's the thing is is I I lean heavily on
the film, you know, so that that's really what this
comes down to, you know, I mean Jerry Glanville, I mean,
I'm not gonna go as far as as he did
with some of the stuff by the old coach of
(33:05):
the Falcons. You know, he called the NFL scouting combine
the underwear Olympics. You know, it's it's and and and
Jerry Glanville got run on the NFL in a rail.
So I don't want to go too far with this stuff.
But but you know, the thing of it is is
that you know, it's a game of football, and that's
what I'm most interesting. I want to see a guy
where the pads, put on the helmet, debuncle the cham
strap and go. Um. I mean, you know, watching a
(33:28):
guy run through run around cones and jump and do
all these kinds of things. I mean, there's a time
and a place for it. Um. You know. I think
the real thing I like to see off the field
is the interviews. I like, you know, the idea of
a chance to look a guy in the eyes, that
asking questions and kind of get a feel for where
his heart, where he's going. When it's convictions are and
what is what is what's his motives are? But I
mean as far as the analytics and all the drills
(33:49):
and all stuff, I think more teams have made mistakes,
you know, relying on the analytics solely, like you're talking
about with him that the kid from Penn State. I
think they've relied on the nlics too. Touch. I think
that you know players, you know, teams have fallen in
love with guys at the scouting combine, especially at the
pro days. Um. You know, I mean trade Lance out
there running around me. There's no defensive pressure anything. I
(34:10):
want to see what the guy looks like. I mean
anybody could. I mean, I venture to say, any able
bodied college quarterback in America to go out there and
make the throws, the trade lances making with Jim shirts
on with his friends and the dome inside. You know,
it's something where I want to see what a guy
looks like on your tape about yeah, mostly with you,
but I would, I would. I would argue if you
(34:31):
put Mac Jones at North Dakota State and you put
Tray Lance at Alabama, are we looking at a totally
different situation? Maybe given the structure, because and listen. I'm
with you on the tape. Obviously, you gotta watch and
see if the trades match up with the production and
the schemes. But certain guys, under certain incredible coaches um
(34:51):
can look great. And we know Saban to an extent
has worned down his players to the point that when
they get to the NFL, there's nothing left. You know,
he grind of the dusk that that's a speculative on
a lot of deffensive push. I'll get you out of
here on this because we've gone too long. I'm sure,
I know you've got a lot of stuff to do.
But Daniel, give me a guy who I don't know,
not first round, not getting any noise, but you know,
(35:13):
maybe a midround prospect who people have heard of that
you absolutely love. That he is not getting enough love
right now. Well, you could talk about a couple of guys.
I mean, Kyle Trask is a guy that that's you know,
we've heard him go anywhere from the first and the
fourth round. Trask is a lot of We've got a
lot of intangibles. There's a lot you know that It's
kind of funny because he does he's very inconsistent. He'll
(35:34):
do the same thing very well, and he'll do the
act same thing not so well. But he's got this
intangible to him of being a winner. So I mean,
that's one name off throughout this guy. I don't know
where he's gonna land. But you know, I don't know
about a mid round guy first saying, but when you
first mentioned the question, the guy that really jumps out
that I'm shocked it's not in the first round discussion
is a running back from North Carolina who I love
(35:57):
Javonte Williams. Javonte Williams is my pick for Rookie of
the Year. I'll come on your show and first guy
first rounder. Right, Well, I've heard anywhere from second maybe
possibly you know, high third, maybe in the first round
discussion that you know, everyone's so afraid to take a
running back these days in the first round. You can
give me any time type of thing. Um, you know,
(36:17):
I think a guy like Javonte Williams. I mean, this
is somebody who's a very tough runner. He's got some
Walter Payton in him. I mean what I mean by
that he'll kind of you kind of look okay, oh yeah,
it's gonna get good. He can kind of look at
the defender he wants to run him over. I mean,
he's a very tough, aggressive, dominant runner who's got very
good at hands and when we can catch the ball
(36:38):
in the backfield and so what I mean good at hands.
I mean he's not just a checkdown safety bell. But
this is a guy who can go deep along the
sidelines as well. Um. I think he's Aaron Jones only better. Um.
And I think if a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers
were to take him, I think he'll run him straight
into the playoffs. This is a guy who I think
is gonna be a really good running back and somebody
I really look at as is being is being that
(37:01):
guy that maybe he's not getting a lot of love
right now or talked about a lot. But this is
gonna be a guy that's gonna make a loud noise
and I venture to say, become a household name in America.
So you would take him over Naj Harris from Mount Yes,
and over E T. N from Clemson. Yes, bullish all right,
Javonte Wives, that's the guy to watch. Rookie of the Year. Hey,
Daniel Kelly, thanks so much for the time. I love this.
(37:23):
I do love chopping it up divergent opinions. I respect it. Um,
you have to do the homework right you know, Yeah,
me too, Jets guy. All right, Daniel, keep up the
good work and enjoy the draft. Sounds good. Thank you
so much, Jason for down and privilege of being on
your show today
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