On today's episode, Jason and Producer Rob G discuss LaMarcus Aldridge's abrupt retirement from the NBA due to an irregular heartbeat. While most in the NBA media are focusing on how this could impact the Brooklyn Nets' title chances this season, the guys agree that this could be a case of addition by subtraction. Aldridge was a luxury item in Brooklyn. If anything, his absence should lead to more minutes for defensive bigs like DeAndre Jordan and Nic Claxton. The bigger story in all of this, at least according to Jason and Rob G, is whether or not Aldridge belongs in the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. Even without a championship ring on his resume, you could argue that Aldridge had a better pro career than guys like Chris Bosh and Kevin Love. Even with his career getting cut short, Aldridge should still be considered a Hall of Famer. Later, former UCLA Bruins head coach and FS1 college basketball producer Steve Lavin swings by to discuss how he ended up spending 4 months straight on the road as part of FS1's college hoops coverage, how the transfer portal could impact the sport moving forward, if coaches may lean more into recruiting high-end transfers as opposed to one-and-done freshmen, why it's going to be extremely important for coaches to be more flexible in their approach to the game if they're going to successfully navigate the shift towards transfers, what he learned from legendary coach John Wooden, how alternative paths to the NBA like the G-League, JBL and Overtime leagues could impact college basketball moving forward, how the Name Image Likeness bill could be what ultimately keeps top-level recruits in the college game, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up, everybody,
It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for for Friday, April sixteenth,
A great podcast ahead. I spoke with Steve Lavin, the
former u c l A and St. John's coach, A
real sharp, analytical mind. If you're interested in becoming a
(00:28):
future coach in basketball, this is mandatory listening. Also just
life stories and life in general. Lavin is a very
smart man, great announcer for Fox Sports, and uh, I
think you're gonna really like coach Lavin. Before we get
to that, I thought we'd spend a few minutes briefly
chopping up the LaMarcus Aldridge retirement as stunning retirement. On
(00:52):
Thursday morning. LaMarcus Aldridge played Saturday in that Nets Lakers game.
We talked about it a bit one Day's podcast, and
then he didn't play for a couple of games. And
it's because he they developed a irregular heartbeat, and Aldredge
abruptly retired at the age of thirty five. I know
it's a little bit young, He's probably still got a
(01:13):
year or two left in the tank, but you know, overwhelmingly,
the talk quickly becomes anytime a star retires, and yes,
LaMarcus Aldridge was a star, the question becomes like, oh, well,
how do you handicap his history and um stature and
is he a Hall of Famer? And I'm just gonna
(01:34):
get this out of the way quickly and early. Just
because he played in Portland and San Antonio, don't disregard him. Okay,
this is a problem we do in the NBA all
the time. We talked to Marj Rosen Reggie Miller earlier
this week. De Rosen played in Canada and San Antonio.
(01:55):
And when you play in an outpost, unless you're like
a finals m v P, like a Tim Uncan in
San Antonio or Tony Parker, or you're a historically great
six man like Man of Genoble, who also was like
a global star given what he did in the Olympics. Um,
you got forgotten and I'm just gonna put some numbers
out here for you that's probably gonna surprise you. LaMarcus
Aldred's first career average nineteen and eight. He has never
(02:20):
made the finals. Um, which obviously is going to be
a mark against him. Um, what you know, making the
finals is a team thing. In Portland was close a bunch,
but never could get over the hump. He got the
San Antonio and has produced well there for four years.
I mean, twenty three and eight, twenty one and nine
(02:41):
like those are not numbers to scoff at and LaMarcus
Aldred's folks, this is the one that jumped out of me.
All NBA five times All NBA is basically saying you
were the best, second best or third best at your
position in the league. And I don't want to pick
(03:01):
on Reggie Miller. He only got three All NBA recognitions
in his career, never first or second team. Okay, LaMarcus
Aldridge has a better resume than a lot of people.
You probably think he doesn't have a better one. Three
times All NBA Third Team, twice All NBA Second Team, Folks,
(03:24):
Kevin Love has only been All NBA twice and oh,
by the way, LaMarcus Aldridge fifteen NBA seasons, Kevin Love.
Aldridge has been in the playoffs far more than Love.
And I know Love had some injuries, but we think
of Kevin Love is just remember, oh he joined the
super team with Lebron. Really, you know, Kevin Love was
(03:45):
super on a bad team. And I'm not going after
Kevin Love. Really nice player, but LaMarcus Aldridge had a
better career than him, without a shadow of a doubt.
And I know Aldridge wasn't a three point shooter. And
this is another thing to bring up Reggie Miller de
Rosin like de Rosen is dinged because he wasn't a
three point guy in the three point era. Aldridge never
(04:06):
became the Stretch four or Stretch five that a lot
of other bigs did. Uh, Rob G. I think undeniably
LaMarcus Aldridge is a Hall of Famer. Do you agree?
I do, Um, And I'm surprised you brought up Kevin
Love because I had someone that I in mind while
you were speaking that I think maybe it's not an
(04:27):
apples to apples comparison, but I think it's an interesting comparison,
and that would be Chris Bosh. That was the next
guy I had see great minds think alike. Um, you know,
Chris Bosh has more All Star appearances, he has the
rings from going to Miami. But if you were to
stack their careers that statistically, I think Audrey's hasn't beat
he and Bosh only made All NBA Second Team once once,
(04:50):
so I mean, I know that we are in the
rings culture where if you know, if you count the rings,
if you don't have them, then you know it's it's
a big demerit on your record. But LaMarcus Aldridge was very, very,
very good for a long time and he just happened
to be at the wrong place at the wrong time,
and in that case it was Portland's during the height
(05:12):
of the Western Conference blood bath. You know, he he
got the tail end of Kobe and Pow, he got
the start of okay see with kay d Harden and Westbrook.
You know, he by the time he had a consistent
running mate because you know, he was with Brandon Roy
before Brandon Roy's knees gave out, he had a young
(05:33):
Dame Lillard and not you know, Dame was good or
very good right in the start, but he was not
the Dame Dollar that we know now. So you know,
it's just tough. And then he got he goes to
San Antonio and he's blocked by the Golden State Warriors
with Katie Stephen Clay. So he's he's a victim of
circumstance in that regardless as of worse to get in
(05:53):
the rings. But his career was very impressive, and um,
I would definitely vote him for the Hall of Fame. Yeah,
this I ea that you can just take guys and say, oh,
Chris Bosh, she's All of Famer. You got a bunch
of rings like um, Chris Bosh was phenomenal in Toronto
and could never get the Raptors over the hump. So
he goes to Miami and I don't know was what
(06:16):
was the third fourth best player on some of those teams.
He definitely was not better than Lebron, definitely was not
better than Wade. And you know, I'm sure some people
would argue that, you know, Ray Allen was more important
than Chris Bosh to an extent. Um, Chris Bosh was
a great player. And that's the problem. Rob. When we say, oh, yeah,
Lamark Salders had a better career than Bosh had a
(06:37):
better career than Kevin Love, people will say, no, no, no, no,
he doesn't have any rings like That's just that's not
how it works. And if you're gonna be reductive like that,
you know and make the conversation dumber. I don't want
to be on a conversation with you. I was gonna
try to compare LaMarcus Alders to a guy like Kevin
McHale who was always second best, maybe third best player
(06:58):
on those Bird Celtics teams. But the cross era is
very challenging. Is that too much of a reach on
my behalf? Rock? Uh? Well, the cross area is one.
But the other thing I think is tough to compare
is that you're the McHale was part of one of
the all time great teams in NBA history. So it's
it's a really tough comparison at least, you know, even
(07:19):
with Love and Bosh, even though they have rings, I
don't think anybody's ever going to argue that those Calves
teams or those Heat teams are all time great teams.
They just happen to win a championship. Yeah, now you're right. Um,
So is there a better comp for LaMarcus Soldiers Like
this one's gonna hurt um better career Chris Webber or
(07:41):
LaMarcus Aldridge? Oh my goodness? Um? And that that's a
really tough because listen, see Webb has a place, Oh
my goodness. They both played fifteen seasons. Webber ten playoffs,
Aldridge nine. Aldridge has a slight edge and all Star Games,
All NBA First Team see WEB one. All NBA Total
(08:05):
see WEB five. Aldridge five. Thank goodness, I can say
Chris Webber, he's got it, He's got the edge. I
would lean Chris Webber, and that's only because as a
Laker fan, I saw a lot of Chris Webber in
the playoffs, and those teams I will go to my
deathbed saying are the greatest teams to never win a championship. Yeah,
Webber average twenty and nine, which is better than Aldridge
is nineteen and eight. Webber, this is where he has him.
(08:27):
He was one of the best passing Big Ben. Four
assists per game, more steals, more blocks. Yeah, that's a
no comparison Webber and Webber. By the way, Webber is
not in the whole of Fame, so maybe Aldridge has
an uphill climb. Oh that's not good news for Aldridge. Well,
you know a lot of this stuff is politics, because
you know, if we were to just do it on merit,
(08:48):
I mean, they let everybody into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Yeah,
I think I think I got in as a contributor
like two years ago, but I'm looking to get in
again later as like a media member. That nice. By
the way, Tea Mac, you know one of my all
time favorite players. I just need to put that out there.
Not not above sea web, but he's certainly up there.
Um t Mac loved him. So anyways, we just wanted
(09:09):
to give some props briefly to LaMarcus Aldridge, who retired
at the age of thirty five. I'm curious, Rob, do
you think this hurts helps no impact to the Nets
um attempted run at the title. I'll tell you what.
This isn't in a popular opinion, but um I think
it may actually help them. And the reason being is
(09:31):
we talked about this ad nauseum on the pod a
few weeks back. What the Nets don't need his offense,
like they have plenty of offense. They need defense and
they're only what I think would be a good defender
in the postseason, like for you know, they do a
lot of switching. Is Nick Claxton. You know, I think
DJ is good with the bigger bodies, which you're gonna
(09:53):
see with em Beid. You know, if you get to
the finals with Anthony Davis, you gonna need a big body.
But they switch so much that you need a mobile
big man and they're only real mobile guys. Nick Clackson,
I think that Blake Griffin and Jeff Green can do
a lot of the pick and pop stuff that Aldridge
is doing, So I don't think they're gonna really miss
him on the offensive end. And so I think it
(10:14):
may be a little bit of addition by subtraction, just
because it thins out the rotation a little bit and
they had too many guys to play anyways for those spots. Yeah,
I'm largely with you on that. I would you want
to make the argument that Aldredge adds a veteran leadership
voice to what is otherwise a very young team. But
Kevin Durant is a veteran and he's won multiple rings,
(10:37):
m VP finals, MVP. I do wonder, though, is are
they gonna miss LaMarcus Aldridge taking the temperature down in
the locker room? Should there be a Kyrie hardened Kyrie Durant,
any kind of tiff in that locker room? And I
know a lot of people are saying you're a hater.
That's not happening. I can almost guarantee you there will
(10:58):
be some incident there, and then who are you going
to lean on? You've got a rookie coach, and Steve Nash,
you've got a guy in Blake Griffin who's really just
along for the ride. Um, I don't think you can
say that Joe Harris is gonna step up in the
locker rooms. They listen everybody, you know, Uh, tlc Ain't
pounding the table. Landry Shammitt not happening. So I don't
(11:19):
I do wonder like Aldred's didn't ever ring. But this
is a thirty five year old veteran who respected player
in the league like he could have been that guy. Hey, hey, guys,
we all have a goal here to win a title
and people would listen. Does that sell you at all
that they will miss Aldred a little bit? Oh yeah
in that regard absolutely. And and you know history tells
(11:42):
us that with all of those guys, including Kevin Durant,
that they're not exactly the best leaders you know in
the NBA. I mean, Mike D'Antoni is famous for refusing
to preach defense, even though, according to multiple players on
those Suns teams, hey you know, maybe we should do
this differently, and he's like, no, this is what we do.
You know, Steve Nash, from what we've been told he's
(12:03):
not really a coach, right, is now what Kyrie Irving said,
He's you know, he's a coach and name, he's just
kind of there, but he's not really a coach. So
as far as leadership, of course, but I think that
if they don't get to where they're gonna go, I
think it's going to have less to do with leadership
and more to do with their defensive shortcomings. I don't
I don't disagree. All right, without further ado, let's get
to our guest, former u c l A coach Steve Lavin.
(12:29):
Jason likes to think he knows everything when it comes
to sports. I know what sports stands want, but for
everything he doesn't. He knows a guy who does. Let's
just say I know a guy who knows a guy
who knows another guy. All right, let's welcome into straight fire.
One of the really good guys in sports media. He's
(12:49):
only all hair team among the announcers. The youngest fifty
six year old looking guy I've ever seen in my life.
He is Steve Lavin, former u c l A and
saying John's coach live, how you doing, man? Terrific? Appreciate
that very kind generous introduction, but I'll take it. Listen,
when I'm walking the halls of Fox and I see
(13:10):
coach Lavin, He's always smiling, always in a good mood.
People are always laughing around him. He's like kind of
has this gravitational pull. And um, I love hearing you
announced games you. I always feel like I'm learning something.
Listen to you, to your coach, I appreciate that you
try as a broadcast, like any craft, to get better
(13:30):
and you know, improve and elevate performance, and that's what
as a coach we expect from our players. But I
also think coaches need to lead by example, and that's still,
in my view, the most powerful form of teaching, whether
you're a parent, a coach, or you're in the classroom,
(13:50):
teaching is leading by example. So I do try and
you know, be prepared and deliver something that's entertaining, but
also in for a bitive. So I appreciate that element
of feeling as though you're learning something, because that's one
of the objectives of broadcasting, but also to have a
good time. Yeah, certainly, before we get to your background,
(14:13):
which I love your high school story and prominent youth
athlete in Marin County. I want to ask how was
being on the road for the n c A tournament
you you were gone for four months. Well, I left
the day before Thanksgiving from the Bay Area of San Francisco,
northern California, where I currently reside, and I spent a
(14:34):
month in Charlotte at our Fox studios, UH in that
part of the country, and we're calling games off the monitor,
which was a new experience but improved, you know, with
each week, got a greater comfort level. Everyone asked to
adjust and adapt because of COVID nineteen and the various protocols.
(14:54):
And then I came back to Los Angeles for a
couple of months and stayed right down the street from
our Fox studios, and then went to Indianapolis for the
n c Double A Tournament and spent a couple of
weeks there before returning a week or so ago now
to the Bay Area. So yeah, it was the longest
road trip in my life, four months away from home.
(15:15):
So it's nice to get back in my own bed
and in the neighborhood, back in the routines of the
off season. Yeah, how was that bubble? I've talked to
a couple of people who were in it. They said,
you know, it wasn't as bad as it sounds, but
I'm assuming for you going North Carolina l a bubble,
it was a little bit of a longer journey. Yeah,
it's just one of those scenarios. Again you kind of
(15:37):
go back to the idea of leading by example and
one of the you know, key elements in competitive sports
is being able to adapt or just and you know,
as a broadcaster and you know the people that we
work with, we all have to you know, use our
(15:59):
ingenuity and purcefulness and u and make the best of
situations and to be grateful that we get to work
in this industry and try and lift people's spirits through
the work that we do in broadcasting. So um, in
the grand scheme of things, you know, it's not a
heavy lift if you put it, you know, on scale
(16:21):
with people defending our freedoms overseas or real struggles uh
in our country and beyond. But there is that aspect
that you do have to adjust and so I think
one of the big keys is listening. You know, what
we're doing here having a conversation, and as you know,
that's so important in any aspect of life. So listening
(16:42):
to our producers are directors listening to the other talent
you're working with. If I'm in studio with Donnie Marshall
and Rob Stone or Kevin Burkhardt, Jimmy Jackson, Casey Jacobson,
it's you know, listening to one another. UM is really
the key. That's how you engage, It's where you take
your cues from. And UM. I was fortunate to have
(17:04):
parents really emphasized listening because my father was an educator
and my mother was a teacher in the home, and
then obviously in her professional life she had to be
a good listener. She was in human resources and corporate America.
So both my parents really at a young age instilled
the the value of listening and in the virtue that
(17:26):
listening is really the gateway information and knowledge and and
so for me during this COVID situation, UM, I've just
tried to amplify even more that aspect of listening. Yeah, well,
we've only got two young kids here in our house.
You grew up. I believe the number I read was
one of six. I'm assuming listening. Listen. It's a tough
(17:50):
challenge when you got an eight in a ten year
old here, they're vying for our time. What was it
like growing up in a lot of a lot of
siblings and you know parents who were very busy. I
would assume it sounds like your dad was quite the
coach and player growing up. Yeah. He was a lifelong
you know, educator and a lifelong learner. Even after he
(18:11):
retired from teaching. His subjects were English and literature, philosophy,
and poetry. He authored seventeen books on writing and composition.
Taught at CAL Berkeley. He started the Bury Writing Project,
which began at CAL and it was bringing teachers to
a college campus and kind of reteaching those teachers, sharpening
(18:31):
their acts, their writing and thinking, so the only so
when they returned to the class whom they elevate the
students experiences. And he launched that co founder, co director
in the late sixties, early seventies. There's now two fifty
writing centers throughout the country. But that was where it
all began, was at CAL. And he also taught Santraco
(18:53):
State College and we're in Dominic and all these northern
California schools, Drake High School as well. So I was
fortunate to have outstanding parents who are really interested and
engaged but it was challenging with six children. I was
the sixth, the baby of the family. So I did
a lot of observing. You know, you're watching and listening
(19:14):
because there's theater going on in a home when you've
got five older siblings. And uh so it did teach
me a lot about observation and and learning some of
the good traits, but also realizing maybe I got to
go down a different path in some cases than my
older brothers. But uh but that's what makes a family.
(19:36):
And of course, you know, when you're the youngest, you're
battling the older siblings. And you turned out to be
a pretty damn awesome basketball player in high school. I
read that you guys went over your junior and senior
years seventy seven and one and one a state championship.
I assume you were, you know, the the leader of
the team, right, captain, I'm assuming, And what position were
(19:58):
you and all that fun stuff. Yeah, for starters, I'll
take those extra twelve wins, but there, but just for
accuracy's sake, we were sixty five and one over those
two years, and I believe it was, you know, fifty
eight straight wins and we're thirty one in one my
junior year and then thirty four and oh my senior year.
(20:22):
I actually was a very you know, average, a small
college prospect. I ended up going to Samusco State. And
when my coach left Samasco State after my sophomore year,
he went down to Chapman now Chapman University. It was
Chapman College when I attended it back in the eighties.
Kevin Wilson was my college coach, and so I end
(20:44):
up finishing it Chapman. And but the high school team,
you know, we we didn't have one superstar. It wasn't
a Carmelo Anthony or a Jason Kidd, but we had
players that went to Santa Clara, to Portland's, to Utah, uh,
San Luis Obispo, Samsco State, so we did have seven
or eight sam Houston State as well, and so it
(21:07):
was really a team that had been together for a
long time, and you know, the nucleus had played together
and ce y oh basketball and uh, you know, through
junior high and into high school. We had an outstanding
coach named Pete Heyward, and I think that did play
a part in me wanting to coach, because we were
so successful in high school and when you're around that
degree of success and championships, uh instill some confidence that
(21:32):
you know, maybe you can do this for a career
after playing, And that's why I chose coaching. Yeah, it's
interesting you say that. You know, you're your group in
high school had been together for a while, and when
you contrast that with what's happening in college basketball now,
with the whole transfer market happening and exploding, Um, I
(21:53):
do wonder are we gonna see some clunky fits because
a guy like let's take Johnny Jusan who blew up
in the tournament. He initially had gone to Kentucky didn't
really work out. For any transfers to U c l A.
They had to believe another transfer starter. And you know,
we saw Baylor. I think three transfers in the starting
lineup for their top eight were transfers. And I just
(22:14):
I'm just curious as a coach, how difficult do you
think it is to go from hey, we have a
group playing together forever, you know, versus hey, let's get
in a bunch of transfer year olds and let's make
something happen. Well for starters, the key is whether a
player is in school for four years at one university,
or he goes to a junior college for a couple
(22:36):
of years, transfers in to a four year school, or
if he's a grad transfer that comes in, or a
transfer that comes in sits out a full year and
then is deemed eligible the gifts the talent is critical.
So I remember coach Wooden used to say, rather have
(22:58):
young players didn't have experience but had talent, then experienced
players they were upperclassmen but didn't have talent. And so
at the end of it, it starts with good personnel
and then it's on the coach to organize that personnel
to build team chemistry, to get them to play in
a cohesive manner both offensively and defensively. And I think coaches,
(23:22):
because of the frequency of transfers, they're improving in regard
to how to work with a group of players that
haven't been together and don't have that continuity piece um Ideally,
you know, years ago, uh, you know, twenty years ago,
we had a group that would come in as freshmen
(23:44):
and they would matriculate through their eligibility and as a
senior or that senior class or that group of juniors
and seniors would make their runs. When I look at
my career are greatest seasons, both as an assistant coach
and when we won the national championship in u c
l A. We had our standing seniors Tis Edny, George
Zedech and Ed O'Bannon. When we went to an E
(24:06):
leade eight in my first year as the head coach
at U c l A, we had outstanding seniors Cameron Dollar,
Charles O'Bannon, and then our junior class at JR. Henderson,
Toby Bailey, Chris Johnson. So upper classmen and experience is
when you win championships or you make deep runs in
the tournament, if you've recruited at a high level and
(24:29):
they have great personnel. The worst scenario is to have
older players that don't have talent, especially at the power
of six level, because you're not going to have a
job very long. And it's a fine line because you know,
if you're older and you have talent, well why aren't
you in the NBA. You know, that's like the perception
sticking around hurts you. Um, I am curious, though, where
(24:50):
do you think we're headed with the one and done
versus transfers, because you know, we had a couple of
guys on your Casey Jacobson, friend for Sheila j Billis.
They all seem to be on listen. Transfers right now
are hotter than give me a top ten freshman coming
in because those guys are thinking, I gotta get to
the NBA after one season. And we saw in the
tournament a lot of the awesome freshman the kid Moody
(25:13):
from Arkansas, Kate Cunningham. It's difficult for one young star
to carry your team against a bunch of year old guys.
It's true, you know, Jalen SuDS came pretty close perfection
with a thirty one and one record, not losing until
the championship game against Baylor. But Baylor did have some
(25:35):
grizzled veterans and their speed and quickness, length and talent
and cohesiveness intelligence sometimes you know, the backing and a
compliment is they're great athletes. It's almost damning them with
faint praise because you know, this Baylor team was more
(25:56):
then good athletes. Uh, they're tied together, you know, defensively
and offensively, their skill, you know, shooting over for the
season from the three point line, they knocked down ten
threes in that championship game against Gonzaga, and they played
some lockdown defense just completely disrupted, discombobulated, unnerved Gonzaga in
(26:17):
a manner that no other team had until that championship
game because Gonzaga had and faced the team that quick,
that tough, that had the defensive prowess. And I also
think Baylor that and I played with a chip on
their shoulders something to prove because everyone had assumed that
Gonzaga is gonna go ahead and have that undefeated, perfect
season for the first time since Indiana did it in
(26:39):
the under Bobby Night. But I do think this trend
is here to stay unless there's legislation that is created
by the n C Double A, and I don't think
that's going to happen. They may tweak or modify, but
not a dramatic overhaul of the graduate transfer rule and
the transfer you know portal. It is what it is.
(27:02):
So I really think it's about, you know, how coaches
adapt and adjust, like that theme we're talking about earlier.
That's one of the keys to success in any industry,
in any aspect of life. And so you know, building
team chemistry, creating that harmony. Uh, those are gonna be
key elements. But this generation is accustomed to it because
(27:25):
you know, there's such a degree of frequency of playing
for different Youth league teams and then different high school teams,
different AU summer program teams, and so really for this generation,
it's business as usual. You know, you go to a
school and if it's not a good fit, you transferred
to another school, and then you maybe transferred to a
(27:47):
third school. We're seeing that more frequently, and that is
counter to the generation that I grew up in, where
it was you see it through and unless there's some
dramatic cause for transferring that it's better two kind of
finish what you began. But I'm not passing judgments or
trying to be one of those curmudgeons that you know
(28:11):
doesn't understand young people today, because I completely understand that
I spent my entire life working with young people. But
I do think the psychology aspect of coaching is going
to be more important than ever before. Flexible and you're
thinking flexible in your approach and being able to adapt.
John Wooden, when he was at u C l A,
took a psychology class every spring he was at u
(28:32):
C like twenty seven years. He would audit the class
sit in on these lectures that the top psychology teachers
at U c l A Were teaching. And the reason
he did that was he was getting older, but he
knew he was continuing to coach the same age group.
And he had coached g I bill guys that came
back from World War Two. He was in the service himself,
I was in the Navy. He also coached, you know,
(28:56):
during Vietnam, during civil rights, during the Korean work and
so the sexual revolution, the drug experimentation, all the things
that were going on. But what allowed Coach Wouldn't to
continue to have success was he understood psychology people were
really the key to coaching, and that was pretty progressive.
(29:16):
Coach Wooden was a trailblazer, but he was interested in
all aspects of life and interested in the people he
worked with, interested in trends in the game, interested in
the spiritual path in terms of his life. And matter
of fact, the last time I visited Coach wood in
two thousand and ten, shortly before he passed, he was
(29:37):
ninety nine years old, and he was doing a deep
dive on all world religions and I thought, that's so
emblematic of this coach that has a sensatiable appetite to
learn and was always you know, in that growth mindset.
There's so many buzzwords we hear about today when it
comes to you know, those aspects. But he was living
(29:59):
that for for ninety nine years, just short of his
hunt with birthday when we lost him on June fourth
of two thousand and ten. But his legacy lives on
because he was a coach, a teacher, a parent that
was engaged and interested in young people, trying to put
them on a positive trajectory for life beyond sport, you know,
really teaching life skills, the attributes, the trades, the characteristics
(30:23):
that it takes to be successful not only sport, but
beyond sport. Yeah, well we're grappling with that problem. Now.
We have a fourth grader and a second grader and
you know, coach, you um, you know you you. I
guess you got to St. John's u c l A.
The Internet had popped. But now what the parents are
dealing with is these uh iPads and roadblocks and video
(30:45):
games to an extent where you know, coach, we got
my son's friends show up at the house with their
backpack with iPad in it and they're like, hey, can
we game, and like that's the new hangout, and you know,
trying to understand why on earth the kids are doing this.
My wife and I are like looking at each other
like this this is friends hanging out. Like you know,
we were constantly learning the new stuff. Like I'm stunned
(31:08):
in college basketball when I see a guy like mac mcclough,
highly towed of recruit goes to Georgetown transfers, goes to
Texas Tech transfers. I mean, it's tough for me to
understand some of the stuff that's happening at the rate
that it's happening. Yeah, And I think you hit the
nail on the head right there with that last part
(31:29):
of your thoughts, which is the speed, the rate, the pace.
And I think you know, there are still certain universals
A b c s are kind of fundamentals keys to life,
like listening and attention to detail, preparation, you know, being
a good teammate, being other directed in terms of you know,
(31:52):
selflessness and generosity. I mean, those things are still important,
but I do agree the challenge now for coaches, teachers,
and parents and leaders is working with the generation that
is a customed to the bombardment of message and electronics
(32:15):
and the twenty four you know, news cycle and all
of the different um tools, right that this generation comes
up with. And then you have people that are older,
of a different generation that move at a different pace
and didn't grow up, didn't come out of the womb
(32:36):
attached to a chord like h like an iPhone. But
as a metaphor, you know, it's just completely different. And
so I think again, how quickly people can adjust and
adapt but also hold on to and continue to teach
and instill the right values and virtues that will sustain
(32:58):
young people regardless of their generation, regardless of how quickly
they're moving, because we know, you know, those lessons um
are are valuable forever. And I think it's a fine line.
I'd like to say that as a coach, you know,
(33:18):
what I tried to do was kind of create a
fresh and original presentation of old school values and virtues. Uh,
but you had to meet you know, younger people where
they are, and they're still gonna see me as an
old timer. But if I'm thinking of fresh and original
ways to engage and to teach and to inform and
(33:42):
also to allow them to inform me, because I think
young people have a powerful, kind of profound way of
teaching us if we're open to it, you know. And
that gets back to a flexibility, humility, and a certain
kind of mindset, and I think that is gonna be
as important as XS and os and technical knowledge that
(34:04):
coaches have, They're gonna also need this other dimension more
than ever. And that goes back to coach Wooden. He
was old school and yet there he was taking a
psychology class because he was interested, because he was searching
for better, more elevated ways to teach young people. And
it's also what led to a run of ten out
(34:26):
of twelve seasons with the national championship, four un defeated seasons,
straight wins. And interestingly, you know, his first sixteen years
at u c l A, he wasn't successful. It was
his last twelve years and he were, you know, fifty
three years old he won his first championship, and then
he retired at sixty five years old, twelve years later
(34:49):
with ten championships. But he was a work in progress,
you know. He started in high school Dayton, Kentucky as
an English teacher and a coach. Then he was a
South Bend Central High School in Indiana as a teacher
and a coach. Then he was in Indiana State, which
was a teacher's college at that point. And then he
had the twenty seven year run at U c l
(35:10):
A before retiring. And he also was in the service
um which shaped him and his sensibilities and the prisoner lens,
and he looked at the world through in a powerful way.
But he was someone that continued to improve upon his
coaching style and his methods and adapting his philosophy so
(35:32):
that he could have the most dominant run in the
history of sport. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
at Fox Sports Radio dot Com and within the I
Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live.
I'm curious when you were recruiting players either U. C
l A. St. John's, how how difficult was it to
(35:54):
decipher who had those fundamental values and that understanding and
the flexibility Because listen, you're dealing with teenagers here, right,
so it must have been a little difficult to discern.
I think this guy can be molded into a good
fit on our team, versus he seems unyielding and unflexible.
How difficult was it to gauge that? Well? Number one,
(36:17):
depending where you coach. You know, I think that it
goes a long way to determine and dictating, you know,
the type of person that you recruit. In other words,
if I was working at a Division two school, you know,
I'm looking at a different talent pool. If I'm in
the IVY League, that's a different talent pool in terms
(36:39):
of finding a fit, like a good marriage with the
prospect and his particular talents, and a university and their
mission and aims and the culture of that university. UM
at Purdue in the Big Ten where I got my
coaching start, at U c l A out West, and
then at St. John's. You know, those three universities. You know,
(37:01):
the objective is clear, it's to win big. And so
you go out and you're looking for the best talent
in the world. You know, George Edech was from the
Czech Republic, uh Orlando Sanchez was from the Dominican you know,
Marco Borgo was from Paris, from France. So you know,
(37:23):
we went all over the world, UH at U c
l A and St. John's in particular, per Do we
recruited more players in the Midwest, and then occasionally we
get a junior college player like Chucky White from El
Camino in Los Angeles. But um, and then you know,
there's the physical aspect. You know, we were looking for,
(37:46):
you know, quickness, skill, basketball, acumen you know basketball I
q uh. You know, I wanted on the intangible side,
great listeners, quick learners, UM. And we were fortunate that
we're able to identify, you know, good personnel and then
(38:07):
engage and that's where you start to learn more, you know,
back to being interested through spending time through communicating. Early
it was through writing letters and phone calls, you know.
But when I came back to coaching and St. John's,
it was about d M men and all the social
media and more unofficial visits where they wanted to come
(38:28):
to campus, hang out in your office, and be around
you in an informal way, not where you're making recruiting
picture presentation. You know, in the old days would go
on the home with a three wing binder, we'd make
a power point presentation, we had a video to play.
And now today younger people just wanted to spend time
around you. So uh, when they came on a on
(38:51):
an official visit. You know, we spend time in Soho
and Tribeca and thrillk Glynn and uh, you know, go
to an art exhibit, listen to some jazz. UM. So
it's so different, go for a walk in Central Park. Um,
as opposed to when I was at Purdue us l A.
And we recruited in a more official presentation manner. I
(39:13):
guess I would wrap up with this, coach, where do
you think college hoops is headed? I know there's a
lot of talk about letting the high school guys jump
to the pros. Obviously we discussed the transfer market. But
you know, Colin, I don't want to say that the
heyday was when you coached. I mean, I love college
hoops more than anything. In like the late eighties and
the nineties, I felt like just sport was just it
(39:33):
was like yet more better players, better basketball. I don't
hate it now, of course, I still love the tournament,
But it seems like college basketball is that's something of
a crossroads. Right. We just saw Roy Williams retire. Indiana
can't seem to figure out what they're doing. Um, coach
K I believe is seventy four? Um, what what? What's
the immediate future of college hoops. I think, you know,
(39:55):
college basketball will remain you know, viable and a popular sport,
and I think March band will still be one of
the great sporting events in the world, right there with
Super Bowl and World Series, World Cup, Olympics, Little League,
World Series. I love the n C Double A tournament
because for three weeks we've got so many compelling stories
(40:16):
and even if you're not a basketball fan, you can
follow March badness and draw inspiration from it. UM. I
think the game's in good shape, but no doubt it's
gonna take leadership two use ingenuity and resourcefulness and creativity
UM to be able to build upon its great tradition
(40:39):
and also to remain viable and attractive to the best
talent in the world because there are other options now
viable options, these new leagues that are providing opportunities for
players while they're in high school to generate revenue, to
be under contract, and then you know prep schools, and
(41:01):
then right out of high school there are options. Uh.
You know we see with with the Ball family, you know,
they've been trailblazers in terms of exploring all the different
options and different routes to ultimately reach the dream, which
is to compete in the NBA at the highest level.
There didn't used to be as many alternative paths to
(41:26):
the NBA. Now there are, and so it can't just
be that old school cremudgeon mindset of if they don't
want to come to college, then they're not meant to
be here, or you know, if they don't want to
stay four years, they shouldn't come to college. I don't
think you can have that mindset because the key is
to have an inclusive approach. And there's still gonna be
(41:49):
players that choose to go overseas and then go to
the NBA or or decide while they're in high school
the option to begin training like an Olympic athlete, to
go straight to the NBA and bypass college. Uh, obviously
there's going to be certain age limitations and whatnot. But
I think the n c double A leadership, USA Basketball,
(42:11):
the National Association of Basketball Coaches, and Dan Gavitt, who's
an outstanding leader overseas n C double As Men's Basketball Championships,
they have to continue to enhance and protect what's great
you know about college basketball, but also build and continue
(42:33):
to make it the most viable, attractive options, and then
if people choose to go elsewhere or choose different paths,
we respect that. But that way you don't run into
the potential scenario of college not being the most attractive
option for the best basketball players in the world. You know,
just think if we had that mindset, you know, years ago,
(42:57):
and as a result, Magic and Bird didn't go to college,
you know, then we never would have had the rebirth
in terms of popularity of college basketball. Byrd initially signed
to Indiana The school felt too big for him. I
don't think Bobby Knight really got to see him play much,
probably wouldn't let him get away. He transfers to Indiana State,
(43:18):
and Magic goes to Michigan State. The two meet in
the National Championship Game is seventy eight, and then they
go to the NBA and they have another, you know,
dramatic effect on that league in terms of his popularity.
They basically resuscitated the NBA. And that was just two players.
So you know, who's the Larry Bird or the Magic
(43:40):
Johnson of you know, this generation that's right now in
sixth grade or eighth grade, and you want to make
sure that college basketball is still attractive enough to get
enough Isaiah Thomas's, Charles Barkley's, Larry Birr's, Magic Johnson's, Carnelo Anthony's,
Mike of Beast, and Jalen sucks because if we lose talent,
(44:05):
the gifted players, then ultimately the popular of the game
is going to be diminished. I mean, no one's gonna
put No one's gonna pay top dollar to go to
Broadway to go see a musical unless they're talented. You
might go see your son or daughter or anisa or nephew.
Well you're not gonna pay top dollar to go to
a movie theater, to go to the Broadway to go
(44:25):
watch you know, someone perform a vocalist. So the n
C double A has to be sure they continue to
make the game and the experience of being a student
athlete attractive enough and inclusive enough to bring in enough
of those new generation Larry Birds and Magic Johnson's. So
it sounds like you you think you have confidence the
leadership can handle this name and likeness uh in in
(44:49):
the correct manner, because it sounds like that is the
also the other big domino to fall in college hoops. Yeah,
it appears that train is leaving the station right, and
it's not moving down the tracks, but it is definitely
you know, it's not moving down the tracks at a
fast rate, but it is pulling away from the station.
(45:10):
And I see that's something that's gonna be here. And
so it's how quickly does the n C double A
adapt and adjust? And it's gonna be trial and there,
you know, there's there's it's not gonna be uh, you know,
a perfect ascent. It's it's gonna take problem solving and
people that enjoy riddles and crossword puzzles and are creative
(45:33):
and left right right thinkers. Well, yeah, I'm sure you
saw the G League offered a couple of guys green
and cominga big money and I'm a minority owner in
an Australian basketball team, the Breakers, and we got R. J. Hampton,
who was you know, ticketed to be a star in
Texas because we're able to offer him money, sneaker deal,
and you know, eventually college hoops is probably gonna have
(45:56):
to cave and say, listen, we're gonna have to let
you guys profit off your name. And so you don't
explore those other options, that's the million dollar question, you know,
how our athletes compensated. You know, for years I've been
saying that if we had the equivalent of a bank
(46:18):
but for the n C double A that would grant
dollars based on financial hardship and need, then we may
not have had to get to this point because now
we're in the midst of the revolution. I'm not again
saying revolution like civil rights, but you know, in our
(46:41):
own way, you know, on us to a smaller degree,
there is a revolution going on. And if you don't
have evolution, we've learned, you have revolution. And so we
didn't evolve quickly enough. The Olympics back of the eighties
made some adjustments to the amateur model allowed their athletes
two create compensation, you know, so they could put food
(47:05):
on the table for their children while they were training
to win gold medals when competing in the Olympics for
our country. Um, but they they were probably even slow
to change. But the n C double A unfortunately didn't
move along quick enough. Now we're beginning to because of
this revolution, and uh, what could happen in the courts.
(47:26):
So I think if we had had that n C
double A bank, you know, and based on financial need,
not the performance of a player, but instead where is
their need, Men's, women's, all sports. You know, when there's
a need, you know, and you've got to get documentation,
(47:46):
provide you know, as a single parent, no parents, you know,
tax returns, just like you do when you go into
any kind of bank. But this was would be an
n C double a bank. And because I think a
lot of the issues, you know, some people, it was
more about you know, getting paid to play the respective school.
(48:07):
Right That's where we have the FBI situation of the
past couple of years and the wire taps and all
of that. But I think the vast majority of scenarios
with student athletes is just the basic hardship. You know,
parents that are not employed, parents that don't have health insurance,
parents that can't you know, pay the rent or pay
(48:28):
for the heat through the winter, parents that can't afford
to come to games to watch their children play or
compete at a high level. So um. But but now
that the name image likeness, that thing is moving down
the tracks and again there'll be some trial and air
and some troubleshooting for sure. Um But I think just
(48:50):
like the Olympics, tweaking the amateur model is what's necessary. Yeah,
he is Steve Levin. You guys obviously know him from
the sidelines, the announcing booth. He probably should have opened,
I don't know, some kind of coaching school. I feel
like I learned a lot from you, as usual, Steve,
thanks a lot for the time, and enjoy the spring
(49:11):
in San Francisco. I will always a pleasure. Let's do
it again down the line.
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up, everybody,
It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for for Friday, April sixteenth,
A great podcast ahead. I spoke with Steve Lavin, the
former u c l A and St. John's coach, A
real sharp, analytical mind. If you're interested in becoming a
(00:28):
future coach in basketball, this is mandatory listening. Also just
life stories and life in general. Lavin is a very
smart man, great announcer for Fox Sports, and uh, I
think you're gonna really like coach Lavin. Before we get
to that, I thought we'd spend a few minutes briefly
chopping up the LaMarcus Aldridge retirement as stunning retirement. On
(00:52):
Thursday morning. LaMarcus Aldridge played Saturday in that Nets Lakers game.
We talked about it a bit one Day's podcast, and
then he didn't play for a couple of games. And
it's because he they developed a irregular heartbeat, and Aldredge
abruptly retired at the age of thirty five. I know
it's a little bit young, He's probably still got a
(01:13):
year or two left in the tank, but you know, overwhelmingly,
the talk quickly becomes anytime a star retires, and yes,
LaMarcus Aldridge was a star, the question becomes like, oh, well,
how do you handicap his history and um stature and
is he a Hall of Famer? And I'm just gonna
(01:34):
get this out of the way quickly and early. Just
because he played in Portland and San Antonio, don't disregard him. Okay,
this is a problem we do in the NBA all
the time. We talked to Marj Rosen Reggie Miller earlier
this week. De Rosen played in Canada and San Antonio.
(01:55):
And when you play in an outpost, unless you're like
a finals m v P, like a Tim Uncan in
San Antonio or Tony Parker, or you're a historically great
six man like Man of Genoble, who also was like
a global star given what he did in the Olympics. Um,
you got forgotten and I'm just gonna put some numbers
out here for you that's probably gonna surprise you. LaMarcus
Aldred's first career average nineteen and eight. He has never
(02:20):
made the finals. Um, which obviously is going to be
a mark against him. Um, what you know, making the
finals is a team thing. In Portland was close a bunch,
but never could get over the hump. He got the
San Antonio and has produced well there for four years.
I mean, twenty three and eight, twenty one and nine
(02:41):
like those are not numbers to scoff at and LaMarcus
Aldred's folks, this is the one that jumped out of me.
All NBA five times All NBA is basically saying you
were the best, second best or third best at your
position in the league. And I don't want to pick
(03:01):
on Reggie Miller. He only got three All NBA recognitions
in his career, never first or second team. Okay, LaMarcus
Aldridge has a better resume than a lot of people.
You probably think he doesn't have a better one. Three
times All NBA Third Team, twice All NBA Second Team, Folks,
(03:24):
Kevin Love has only been All NBA twice and oh,
by the way, LaMarcus Aldridge fifteen NBA seasons, Kevin Love.
Aldridge has been in the playoffs far more than Love.
And I know Love had some injuries, but we think
of Kevin Love is just remember, oh he joined the
super team with Lebron. Really, you know, Kevin Love was
(03:45):
super on a bad team. And I'm not going after
Kevin Love. Really nice player, but LaMarcus Aldridge had a
better career than him, without a shadow of a doubt.
And I know Aldridge wasn't a three point shooter. And
this is another thing to bring up Reggie Miller de
Rosin like de Rosen is dinged because he wasn't a
three point guy in the three point era. Aldridge never
(04:06):
became the Stretch four or Stretch five that a lot
of other bigs did. Uh, Rob G. I think undeniably
LaMarcus Aldridge is a Hall of Famer. Do you agree?
I do, Um, And I'm surprised you brought up Kevin
Love because I had someone that I in mind while
you were speaking that I think maybe it's not an
(04:27):
apples to apples comparison, but I think it's an interesting comparison,
and that would be Chris Bosh. That was the next
guy I had see great minds think alike. Um, you know,
Chris Bosh has more All Star appearances, he has the
rings from going to Miami. But if you were to
stack their careers that statistically, I think Audrey's hasn't beat
he and Bosh only made All NBA Second Team once once,
(04:50):
so I mean, I know that we are in the
rings culture where if you know, if you count the rings,
if you don't have them, then you know it's it's
a big demerit on your record. But LaMarcus Aldridge was very, very,
very good for a long time and he just happened
to be at the wrong place at the wrong time,
and in that case it was Portland's during the height
(05:12):
of the Western Conference blood bath. You know, he he
got the tail end of Kobe and Pow, he got
the start of okay see with kay d Harden and Westbrook.
You know, he by the time he had a consistent
running mate because you know, he was with Brandon Roy
before Brandon Roy's knees gave out, he had a young
(05:33):
Dame Lillard and not you know, Dame was good or
very good right in the start, but he was not
the Dame Dollar that we know now. So you know,
it's just tough. And then he got he goes to
San Antonio and he's blocked by the Golden State Warriors
with Katie Stephen Clay. So he's he's a victim of
circumstance in that regardless as of worse to get in
(05:53):
the rings. But his career was very impressive, and um,
I would definitely vote him for the Hall of Fame. Yeah,
this I ea that you can just take guys and say, oh,
Chris Bosh, she's All of Famer. You got a bunch
of rings like um, Chris Bosh was phenomenal in Toronto
and could never get the Raptors over the hump. So
he goes to Miami and I don't know was what
(06:16):
was the third fourth best player on some of those teams.
He definitely was not better than Lebron, definitely was not
better than Wade. And you know, I'm sure some people
would argue that, you know, Ray Allen was more important
than Chris Bosh to an extent. Um, Chris Bosh was
a great player. And that's the problem. Rob. When we say, oh, yeah,
Lamark Salders had a better career than Bosh had a
(06:37):
better career than Kevin Love, people will say, no, no, no, no,
he doesn't have any rings like That's just that's not
how it works. And if you're gonna be reductive like that,
you know and make the conversation dumber. I don't want
to be on a conversation with you. I was gonna
try to compare LaMarcus Alders to a guy like Kevin
McHale who was always second best, maybe third best player
(06:58):
on those Bird Celtics teams. But the cross era is
very challenging. Is that too much of a reach on
my behalf? Rock? Uh? Well, the cross area is one.
But the other thing I think is tough to compare
is that you're the McHale was part of one of
the all time great teams in NBA history. So it's
it's a really tough comparison at least, you know, even
(07:19):
with Love and Bosh, even though they have rings, I
don't think anybody's ever going to argue that those Calves
teams or those Heat teams are all time great teams.
They just happen to win a championship. Yeah, now you're right. Um,
So is there a better comp for LaMarcus Soldiers Like
this one's gonna hurt um better career Chris Webber or
(07:41):
LaMarcus Aldridge? Oh my goodness? Um? And that that's a
really tough because listen, see Webb has a place, Oh
my goodness. They both played fifteen seasons. Webber ten playoffs,
Aldridge nine. Aldridge has a slight edge and all Star Games,
All NBA First Team see WEB one. All NBA Total
(08:05):
see WEB five. Aldridge five. Thank goodness, I can say
Chris Webber, he's got it, He's got the edge. I
would lean Chris Webber, and that's only because as a
Laker fan, I saw a lot of Chris Webber in
the playoffs, and those teams I will go to my
deathbed saying are the greatest teams to never win a championship. Yeah,
Webber average twenty and nine, which is better than Aldridge
is nineteen and eight. Webber, this is where he has him.
(08:27):
He was one of the best passing Big Ben. Four
assists per game, more steals, more blocks. Yeah, that's a
no comparison Webber and Webber. By the way, Webber is
not in the whole of Fame, so maybe Aldridge has
an uphill climb. Oh that's not good news for Aldridge. Well,
you know a lot of this stuff is politics, because
you know, if we were to just do it on merit,
(08:48):
I mean, they let everybody into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Yeah,
I think I think I got in as a contributor
like two years ago, but I'm looking to get in
again later as like a media member. That nice. By
the way, Tea Mac, you know one of my all
time favorite players. I just need to put that out there.
Not not above sea web, but he's certainly up there.
Um t Mac loved him. So anyways, we just wanted
(09:09):
to give some props briefly to LaMarcus Aldridge, who retired
at the age of thirty five. I'm curious, Rob, do
you think this hurts helps no impact to the Nets
um attempted run at the title. I'll tell you what.
This isn't in a popular opinion, but um I think
it may actually help them. And the reason being is
(09:31):
we talked about this ad nauseum on the pod a
few weeks back. What the Nets don't need his offense,
like they have plenty of offense. They need defense and
they're only what I think would be a good defender
in the postseason, like for you know, they do a
lot of switching. Is Nick Claxton. You know, I think
DJ is good with the bigger bodies, which you're gonna
(09:53):
see with em Beid. You know, if you get to
the finals with Anthony Davis, you gonna need a big body.
But they switch so much that you need a mobile
big man and they're only real mobile guys. Nick Clackson,
I think that Blake Griffin and Jeff Green can do
a lot of the pick and pop stuff that Aldridge
is doing, So I don't think they're gonna really miss
him on the offensive end. And so I think it
(10:14):
may be a little bit of addition by subtraction, just
because it thins out the rotation a little bit and
they had too many guys to play anyways for those spots. Yeah,
I'm largely with you on that. I would you want
to make the argument that Aldredge adds a veteran leadership
voice to what is otherwise a very young team. But
Kevin Durant is a veteran and he's won multiple rings,
(10:37):
m VP finals, MVP. I do wonder, though, is are
they gonna miss LaMarcus Aldridge taking the temperature down in
the locker room? Should there be a Kyrie hardened Kyrie Durant,
any kind of tiff in that locker room? And I
know a lot of people are saying you're a hater.
That's not happening. I can almost guarantee you there will
(10:58):
be some incident there, and then who are you going
to lean on? You've got a rookie coach, and Steve Nash,
you've got a guy in Blake Griffin who's really just
along for the ride. Um, I don't think you can
say that Joe Harris is gonna step up in the
locker rooms. They listen everybody, you know, Uh, tlc Ain't
pounding the table. Landry Shammitt not happening. So I don't
(11:19):
I do wonder like Aldred's didn't ever ring. But this
is a thirty five year old veteran who respected player
in the league like he could have been that guy. Hey, hey, guys,
we all have a goal here to win a title
and people would listen. Does that sell you at all
that they will miss Aldred a little bit? Oh yeah
in that regard absolutely. And and you know history tells
(11:42):
us that with all of those guys, including Kevin Durant,
that they're not exactly the best leaders you know in
the NBA. I mean, Mike D'Antoni is famous for refusing
to preach defense, even though, according to multiple players on
those Suns teams, hey you know, maybe we should do
this differently, and he's like, no, this is what we do.
You know, Steve Nash, from what we've been told he's
(12:03):
not really a coach, right, is now what Kyrie Irving said,
He's you know, he's a coach and name, he's just
kind of there, but he's not really a coach. So
as far as leadership, of course, but I think that
if they don't get to where they're gonna go, I
think it's going to have less to do with leadership
and more to do with their defensive shortcomings. I don't
I don't disagree. All right, without further ado, let's get
to our guest, former u c l A coach Steve Lavin.
(12:29):
Jason likes to think he knows everything when it comes
to sports. I know what sports stands want, but for
everything he doesn't. He knows a guy who does. Let's
just say I know a guy who knows a guy
who knows another guy. All right, let's welcome into straight fire.
One of the really good guys in sports media. He's
(12:49):
only all hair team among the announcers. The youngest fifty
six year old looking guy I've ever seen in my life.
He is Steve Lavin, former u c l A and
saying John's coach live, how you doing, man? Terrific? Appreciate
that very kind generous introduction, but I'll take it. Listen,
when I'm walking the halls of Fox and I see
(13:10):
coach Lavin, He's always smiling, always in a good mood.
People are always laughing around him. He's like kind of
has this gravitational pull. And um, I love hearing you
announced games you. I always feel like I'm learning something.
Listen to you, to your coach, I appreciate that you
try as a broadcast, like any craft, to get better
(13:30):
and you know, improve and elevate performance, and that's what
as a coach we expect from our players. But I
also think coaches need to lead by example, and that's still,
in my view, the most powerful form of teaching, whether
you're a parent, a coach, or you're in the classroom,
(13:50):
teaching is leading by example. So I do try and
you know, be prepared and deliver something that's entertaining, but
also in for a bitive. So I appreciate that element
of feeling as though you're learning something, because that's one
of the objectives of broadcasting, but also to have a
good time. Yeah, certainly, before we get to your background,
(14:13):
which I love your high school story and prominent youth
athlete in Marin County. I want to ask how was
being on the road for the n c A tournament
you you were gone for four months. Well, I left
the day before Thanksgiving from the Bay Area of San Francisco,
northern California, where I currently reside, and I spent a
(14:34):
month in Charlotte at our Fox studios, UH in that
part of the country, and we're calling games off the monitor,
which was a new experience but improved, you know, with
each week, got a greater comfort level. Everyone asked to
adjust and adapt because of COVID nineteen and the various protocols.
(14:54):
And then I came back to Los Angeles for a
couple of months and stayed right down the street from
our Fox studios, and then went to Indianapolis for the
n c Double A Tournament and spent a couple of
weeks there before returning a week or so ago now
to the Bay Area. So yeah, it was the longest
road trip in my life, four months away from home.
(15:15):
So it's nice to get back in my own bed
and in the neighborhood, back in the routines of the
off season. Yeah, how was that bubble? I've talked to
a couple of people who were in it. They said,
you know, it wasn't as bad as it sounds, but
I'm assuming for you going North Carolina l a bubble,
it was a little bit of a longer journey. Yeah,
it's just one of those scenarios. Again you kind of
(15:37):
go back to the idea of leading by example and
one of the you know, key elements in competitive sports
is being able to adapt or just and you know,
as a broadcaster and you know the people that we
work with, we all have to you know, use our
(15:59):
ingenuity and purcefulness and u and make the best of
situations and to be grateful that we get to work
in this industry and try and lift people's spirits through
the work that we do in broadcasting. So um, in
the grand scheme of things, you know, it's not a
heavy lift if you put it, you know, on scale
(16:21):
with people defending our freedoms overseas or real struggles uh
in our country and beyond. But there is that aspect
that you do have to adjust and so I think
one of the big keys is listening. You know, what
we're doing here having a conversation, and as you know,
that's so important in any aspect of life. So listening
(16:42):
to our producers are directors listening to the other talent
you're working with. If I'm in studio with Donnie Marshall
and Rob Stone or Kevin Burkhardt, Jimmy Jackson, Casey Jacobson,
it's you know, listening to one another. UM is really
the key. That's how you engage, It's where you take
your cues from. And UM. I was fortunate to have
(17:04):
parents really emphasized listening because my father was an educator
and my mother was a teacher in the home, and
then obviously in her professional life she had to be
a good listener. She was in human resources and corporate America.
So both my parents really at a young age instilled
the the value of listening and in the virtue that
(17:26):
listening is really the gateway information and knowledge and and
so for me during this COVID situation, UM, I've just
tried to amplify even more that aspect of listening. Yeah, well,
we've only got two young kids here in our house.
You grew up. I believe the number I read was
one of six. I'm assuming listening. Listen. It's a tough
(17:50):
challenge when you got an eight in a ten year
old here, they're vying for our time. What was it
like growing up in a lot of a lot of
siblings and you know parents who were very busy. I
would assume it sounds like your dad was quite the
coach and player growing up. Yeah. He was a lifelong
you know, educator and a lifelong learner. Even after he
(18:11):
retired from teaching. His subjects were English and literature, philosophy,
and poetry. He authored seventeen books on writing and composition.
Taught at CAL Berkeley. He started the Bury Writing Project,
which began at CAL and it was bringing teachers to
a college campus and kind of reteaching those teachers, sharpening
(18:31):
their acts, their writing and thinking, so the only so
when they returned to the class whom they elevate the
students experiences. And he launched that co founder, co director
in the late sixties, early seventies. There's now two fifty
writing centers throughout the country. But that was where it
all began, was at CAL. And he also taught Santraco
(18:53):
State College and we're in Dominic and all these northern
California schools, Drake High School as well. So I was
fortunate to have outstanding parents who are really interested and
engaged but it was challenging with six children. I was
the sixth, the baby of the family. So I did
a lot of observing. You know, you're watching and listening
(19:14):
because there's theater going on in a home when you've
got five older siblings. And uh so it did teach
me a lot about observation and and learning some of
the good traits, but also realizing maybe I got to
go down a different path in some cases than my
older brothers. But uh but that's what makes a family.
(19:36):
And of course, you know, when you're the youngest, you're
battling the older siblings. And you turned out to be
a pretty damn awesome basketball player in high school. I
read that you guys went over your junior and senior
years seventy seven and one and one a state championship.
I assume you were, you know, the the leader of
the team, right, captain, I'm assuming, And what position were
(19:58):
you and all that fun stuff. Yeah, for starters, I'll
take those extra twelve wins, but there, but just for
accuracy's sake, we were sixty five and one over those
two years, and I believe it was, you know, fifty
eight straight wins and we're thirty one in one my
junior year and then thirty four and oh my senior year.
(20:22):
I actually was a very you know, average, a small
college prospect. I ended up going to Samusco State. And
when my coach left Samasco State after my sophomore year,
he went down to Chapman now Chapman University. It was
Chapman College when I attended it back in the eighties.
Kevin Wilson was my college coach, and so I end
(20:44):
up finishing it Chapman. And but the high school team,
you know, we we didn't have one superstar. It wasn't
a Carmelo Anthony or a Jason Kidd, but we had
players that went to Santa Clara, to Portland's, to Utah, uh,
San Luis Obispo, Samsco State, so we did have seven
or eight sam Houston State as well, and so it
(21:07):
was really a team that had been together for a
long time, and you know, the nucleus had played together
and ce y oh basketball and uh, you know, through
junior high and into high school. We had an outstanding
coach named Pete Heyward, and I think that did play
a part in me wanting to coach, because we were
so successful in high school and when you're around that
degree of success and championships, uh instill some confidence that
(21:32):
you know, maybe you can do this for a career
after playing, And that's why I chose coaching. Yeah, it's
interesting you say that. You know, you're your group in
high school had been together for a while, and when
you contrast that with what's happening in college basketball now,
with the whole transfer market happening and exploding, Um, I
(21:53):
do wonder are we gonna see some clunky fits because
a guy like let's take Johnny Jusan who blew up
in the tournament. He initially had gone to Kentucky didn't
really work out. For any transfers to U c l A.
They had to believe another transfer starter. And you know,
we saw Baylor. I think three transfers in the starting
lineup for their top eight were transfers. And I just
(22:14):
I'm just curious as a coach, how difficult do you
think it is to go from hey, we have a
group playing together forever, you know, versus hey, let's get
in a bunch of transfer year olds and let's make
something happen. Well for starters, the key is whether a
player is in school for four years at one university,
or he goes to a junior college for a couple
(22:36):
of years, transfers in to a four year school, or
if he's a grad transfer that comes in, or a
transfer that comes in sits out a full year and
then is deemed eligible the gifts the talent is critical.
So I remember coach Wooden used to say, rather have
(22:58):
young players didn't have experience but had talent, then experienced
players they were upperclassmen but didn't have talent. And so
at the end of it, it starts with good personnel
and then it's on the coach to organize that personnel
to build team chemistry, to get them to play in
a cohesive manner both offensively and defensively. And I think coaches,
(23:22):
because of the frequency of transfers, they're improving in regard
to how to work with a group of players that
haven't been together and don't have that continuity piece um Ideally,
you know, years ago, uh, you know, twenty years ago,
we had a group that would come in as freshmen
(23:44):
and they would matriculate through their eligibility and as a
senior or that senior class or that group of juniors
and seniors would make their runs. When I look at
my career are greatest seasons, both as an assistant coach
and when we won the national championship in u c
l A. We had our standing seniors Tis Edny, George
Zedech and Ed O'Bannon. When we went to an E
(24:06):
leade eight in my first year as the head coach
at U c l A, we had outstanding seniors Cameron Dollar,
Charles O'Bannon, and then our junior class at JR. Henderson,
Toby Bailey, Chris Johnson. So upper classmen and experience is
when you win championships or you make deep runs in
the tournament, if you've recruited at a high level and
(24:29):
they have great personnel. The worst scenario is to have
older players that don't have talent, especially at the power
of six level, because you're not going to have a
job very long. And it's a fine line because you know,
if you're older and you have talent, well why aren't
you in the NBA. You know, that's like the perception
sticking around hurts you. Um, I am curious, though, where
(24:50):
do you think we're headed with the one and done
versus transfers, because you know, we had a couple of
guys on your Casey Jacobson, friend for Sheila j Billis.
They all seem to be on listen. Transfers right now
are hotter than give me a top ten freshman coming
in because those guys are thinking, I gotta get to
the NBA after one season. And we saw in the
tournament a lot of the awesome freshman the kid Moody
(25:13):
from Arkansas, Kate Cunningham. It's difficult for one young star
to carry your team against a bunch of year old guys.
It's true, you know, Jalen SuDS came pretty close perfection
with a thirty one and one record, not losing until
the championship game against Baylor. But Baylor did have some
(25:35):
grizzled veterans and their speed and quickness, length and talent
and cohesiveness intelligence sometimes you know, the backing and a
compliment is they're great athletes. It's almost damning them with
faint praise because you know, this Baylor team was more
(25:56):
then good athletes. Uh, they're tied together, you know, defensively
and offensively, their skill, you know, shooting over for the
season from the three point line, they knocked down ten
threes in that championship game against Gonzaga, and they played
some lockdown defense just completely disrupted, discombobulated, unnerved Gonzaga in
(26:17):
a manner that no other team had until that championship
game because Gonzaga had and faced the team that quick,
that tough, that had the defensive prowess. And I also
think Baylor that and I played with a chip on
their shoulders something to prove because everyone had assumed that
Gonzaga is gonna go ahead and have that undefeated, perfect
season for the first time since Indiana did it in
(26:39):
the under Bobby Night. But I do think this trend
is here to stay unless there's legislation that is created
by the n C Double A, and I don't think
that's going to happen. They may tweak or modify, but
not a dramatic overhaul of the graduate transfer rule and
the transfer you know portal. It is what it is.
(27:02):
So I really think it's about, you know, how coaches
adapt and adjust, like that theme we're talking about earlier.
That's one of the keys to success in any industry,
in any aspect of life. And so you know, building
team chemistry, creating that harmony. Uh, those are gonna be
key elements. But this generation is accustomed to it because
(27:25):
you know, there's such a degree of frequency of playing
for different Youth league teams and then different high school teams,
different AU summer program teams, and so really for this generation,
it's business as usual. You know, you go to a
school and if it's not a good fit, you transferred
to another school, and then you maybe transferred to a
(27:47):
third school. We're seeing that more frequently, and that is
counter to the generation that I grew up in, where
it was you see it through and unless there's some
dramatic cause for transferring that it's better two kind of
finish what you began. But I'm not passing judgments or
trying to be one of those curmudgeons that you know
(28:11):
doesn't understand young people today, because I completely understand that
I spent my entire life working with young people. But
I do think the psychology aspect of coaching is going
to be more important than ever before. Flexible and you're
thinking flexible in your approach and being able to adapt.
John Wooden, when he was at u C l A,
took a psychology class every spring he was at u
(28:32):
C like twenty seven years. He would audit the class
sit in on these lectures that the top psychology teachers
at U c l A Were teaching. And the reason
he did that was he was getting older, but he
knew he was continuing to coach the same age group.
And he had coached g I bill guys that came
back from World War Two. He was in the service himself,
I was in the Navy. He also coached, you know,
(28:56):
during Vietnam, during civil rights, during the Korean work and
so the sexual revolution, the drug experimentation, all the things
that were going on. But what allowed Coach Wouldn't to
continue to have success was he understood psychology people were
really the key to coaching, and that was pretty progressive.
(29:16):
Coach Wooden was a trailblazer, but he was interested in
all aspects of life and interested in the people he
worked with, interested in trends in the game, interested in
the spiritual path in terms of his life. And matter
of fact, the last time I visited Coach wood in
two thousand and ten, shortly before he passed, he was
(29:37):
ninety nine years old, and he was doing a deep
dive on all world religions and I thought, that's so
emblematic of this coach that has a sensatiable appetite to
learn and was always you know, in that growth mindset.
There's so many buzzwords we hear about today when it
comes to you know, those aspects. But he was living
(29:59):
that for for ninety nine years, just short of his
hunt with birthday when we lost him on June fourth
of two thousand and ten. But his legacy lives on
because he was a coach, a teacher, a parent that
was engaged and interested in young people, trying to put
them on a positive trajectory for life beyond sport, you know,
really teaching life skills, the attributes, the trades, the characteristics
(30:23):
that it takes to be successful not only sport, but
beyond sport. Yeah, well we're grappling with that problem. Now.
We have a fourth grader and a second grader and
you know, coach, you um, you know you you. I
guess you got to St. John's u c l A.
The Internet had popped. But now what the parents are
dealing with is these uh iPads and roadblocks and video
(30:45):
games to an extent where you know, coach, we got
my son's friends show up at the house with their
backpack with iPad in it and they're like, hey, can
we game, and like that's the new hangout, and you know,
trying to understand why on earth the kids are doing this.
My wife and I are like looking at each other
like this this is friends hanging out. Like you know,
we were constantly learning the new stuff. Like I'm stunned
(31:08):
in college basketball when I see a guy like mac mcclough,
highly towed of recruit goes to Georgetown transfers, goes to
Texas Tech transfers. I mean, it's tough for me to
understand some of the stuff that's happening at the rate
that it's happening. Yeah, And I think you hit the
nail on the head right there with that last part
(31:29):
of your thoughts, which is the speed, the rate, the pace.
And I think you know, there are still certain universals
A b c s are kind of fundamentals keys to life,
like listening and attention to detail, preparation, you know, being
a good teammate, being other directed in terms of you know,
(31:52):
selflessness and generosity. I mean, those things are still important,
but I do agree the challenge now for coaches, teachers,
and parents and leaders is working with the generation that
is a customed to the bombardment of message and electronics
(32:15):
and the twenty four you know, news cycle and all
of the different um tools, right that this generation comes
up with. And then you have people that are older,
of a different generation that move at a different pace
and didn't grow up, didn't come out of the womb
(32:36):
attached to a chord like h like an iPhone. But
as a metaphor, you know, it's just completely different. And
so I think again, how quickly people can adjust and
adapt but also hold on to and continue to teach
and instill the right values and virtues that will sustain
(32:58):
young people regardless of their generation, regardless of how quickly
they're moving, because we know, you know, those lessons um
are are valuable forever. And I think it's a fine line.
I'd like to say that as a coach, you know,
(33:18):
what I tried to do was kind of create a
fresh and original presentation of old school values and virtues. Uh,
but you had to meet you know, younger people where
they are, and they're still gonna see me as an
old timer. But if I'm thinking of fresh and original
ways to engage and to teach and to inform and
(33:42):
also to allow them to inform me, because I think
young people have a powerful, kind of profound way of
teaching us if we're open to it, you know. And
that gets back to a flexibility, humility, and a certain
kind of mindset, and I think that is gonna be
as important as XS and os and technical knowledge that
(34:04):
coaches have, They're gonna also need this other dimension more
than ever. And that goes back to coach Wooden. He
was old school and yet there he was taking a
psychology class because he was interested, because he was searching
for better, more elevated ways to teach young people. And
it's also what led to a run of ten out
(34:26):
of twelve seasons with the national championship, four un defeated seasons,
straight wins. And interestingly, you know, his first sixteen years
at u c l A, he wasn't successful. It was
his last twelve years and he were, you know, fifty
three years old he won his first championship, and then
he retired at sixty five years old, twelve years later
(34:49):
with ten championships. But he was a work in progress,
you know. He started in high school Dayton, Kentucky as
an English teacher and a coach. Then he was a
South Bend Central High School in Indiana as a teacher
and a coach. Then he was in Indiana State, which
was a teacher's college at that point. And then he
had the twenty seven year run at U c l
(35:10):
A before retiring. And he also was in the service
um which shaped him and his sensibilities and the prisoner lens,
and he looked at the world through in a powerful way.
But he was someone that continued to improve upon his
coaching style and his methods and adapting his philosophy so
(35:32):
that he could have the most dominant run in the
history of sport. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows
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Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live.
I'm curious when you were recruiting players either U. C
l A. St. John's, how how difficult was it to
(35:54):
decipher who had those fundamental values and that understanding and
the flexibility Because listen, you're dealing with teenagers here, right,
so it must have been a little difficult to discern.
I think this guy can be molded into a good
fit on our team, versus he seems unyielding and unflexible.
How difficult was it to gauge that? Well? Number one,
(36:17):
depending where you coach. You know, I think that it
goes a long way to determine and dictating, you know,
the type of person that you recruit. In other words,
if I was working at a Division two school, you know,
I'm looking at a different talent pool. If I'm in
the IVY League, that's a different talent pool in terms
(36:39):
of finding a fit, like a good marriage with the
prospect and his particular talents, and a university and their
mission and aims and the culture of that university. UM
at Purdue in the Big Ten where I got my
coaching start, at U c l A out West, and
then at St. John's. You know, those three universities. You know,
(37:01):
the objective is clear, it's to win big. And so
you go out and you're looking for the best talent
in the world. You know, George Edech was from the
Czech Republic, uh Orlando Sanchez was from the Dominican you know,
Marco Borgo was from Paris, from France. So you know,
(37:23):
we went all over the world, UH at U c
l A and St. John's in particular, per Do we
recruited more players in the Midwest, and then occasionally we
get a junior college player like Chucky White from El
Camino in Los Angeles. But um, and then you know,
there's the physical aspect. You know, we were looking for,
(37:46):
you know, quickness, skill, basketball, acumen you know basketball I
q uh. You know, I wanted on the intangible side,
great listeners, quick learners, UM. And we were fortunate that
we're able to identify, you know, good personnel and then
(38:07):
engage and that's where you start to learn more, you know,
back to being interested through spending time through communicating. Early
it was through writing letters and phone calls, you know.
But when I came back to coaching and St. John's,
it was about d M men and all the social
media and more unofficial visits where they wanted to come
(38:28):
to campus, hang out in your office, and be around
you in an informal way, not where you're making recruiting
picture presentation. You know, in the old days would go
on the home with a three wing binder, we'd make
a power point presentation, we had a video to play.
And now today younger people just wanted to spend time
around you. So uh, when they came on a on
(38:51):
an official visit. You know, we spend time in Soho
and Tribeca and thrillk Glynn and uh, you know, go
to an art exhibit, listen to some jazz. UM. So
it's so different, go for a walk in Central Park. Um,
as opposed to when I was at Purdue us l A.
And we recruited in a more official presentation manner. I
(39:13):
guess I would wrap up with this, coach, where do
you think college hoops is headed? I know there's a
lot of talk about letting the high school guys jump
to the pros. Obviously we discussed the transfer market. But
you know, Colin, I don't want to say that the
heyday was when you coached. I mean, I love college
hoops more than anything. In like the late eighties and
the nineties, I felt like just sport was just it
(39:33):
was like yet more better players, better basketball. I don't
hate it now, of course, I still love the tournament,
But it seems like college basketball is that's something of
a crossroads. Right. We just saw Roy Williams retire. Indiana
can't seem to figure out what they're doing. Um, coach
K I believe is seventy four? Um, what what? What's
the immediate future of college hoops. I think, you know,
(39:55):
college basketball will remain you know, viable and a popular sport,
and I think March band will still be one of
the great sporting events in the world, right there with
Super Bowl and World Series, World Cup, Olympics, Little League,
World Series. I love the n C Double A tournament
because for three weeks we've got so many compelling stories
(40:16):
and even if you're not a basketball fan, you can
follow March badness and draw inspiration from it. UM. I
think the game's in good shape, but no doubt it's
gonna take leadership two use ingenuity and resourcefulness and creativity
UM to be able to build upon its great tradition
(40:39):
and also to remain viable and attractive to the best
talent in the world because there are other options now
viable options, these new leagues that are providing opportunities for
players while they're in high school to generate revenue, to
be under contract, and then you know prep schools, and
(41:01):
then right out of high school there are options. Uh.
You know we see with with the Ball family, you know,
they've been trailblazers in terms of exploring all the different
options and different routes to ultimately reach the dream, which
is to compete in the NBA at the highest level.
There didn't used to be as many alternative paths to
(41:26):
the NBA. Now there are, and so it can't just
be that old school cremudgeon mindset of if they don't
want to come to college, then they're not meant to
be here, or you know, if they don't want to
stay four years, they shouldn't come to college. I don't
think you can have that mindset because the key is
to have an inclusive approach. And there's still gonna be
(41:49):
players that choose to go overseas and then go to
the NBA or or decide while they're in high school
the option to begin training like an Olympic athlete, to
go straight to the NBA and bypass college. Uh, obviously
there's going to be certain age limitations and whatnot. But
I think the n c double A leadership, USA Basketball,
(42:11):
the National Association of Basketball Coaches, and Dan Gavitt, who's
an outstanding leader overseas n C double As Men's Basketball Championships,
they have to continue to enhance and protect what's great
you know about college basketball, but also build and continue
(42:33):
to make it the most viable, attractive options, and then
if people choose to go elsewhere or choose different paths,
we respect that. But that way you don't run into
the potential scenario of college not being the most attractive
option for the best basketball players in the world. You know,
just think if we had that mindset, you know, years ago,
(42:57):
and as a result, Magic and Bird didn't go to college,
you know, then we never would have had the rebirth
in terms of popularity of college basketball. Byrd initially signed
to Indiana The school felt too big for him. I
don't think Bobby Knight really got to see him play much,
probably wouldn't let him get away. He transfers to Indiana State,
(43:18):
and Magic goes to Michigan State. The two meet in
the National Championship Game is seventy eight, and then they
go to the NBA and they have another, you know,
dramatic effect on that league in terms of his popularity.
They basically resuscitated the NBA. And that was just two players.
So you know, who's the Larry Bird or the Magic
(43:40):
Johnson of you know, this generation that's right now in
sixth grade or eighth grade, and you want to make
sure that college basketball is still attractive enough to get
enough Isaiah Thomas's, Charles Barkley's, Larry Birr's, Magic Johnson's, Carnelo Anthony's,
Mike of Beast, and Jalen sucks because if we lose talent,
(44:05):
the gifted players, then ultimately the popular of the game
is going to be diminished. I mean, no one's gonna
put No one's gonna pay top dollar to go to
Broadway to go see a musical unless they're talented. You
might go see your son or daughter or anisa or nephew.
Well you're not gonna pay top dollar to go to
a movie theater, to go to the Broadway to go
(44:25):
watch you know, someone perform a vocalist. So the n
C double A has to be sure they continue to
make the game and the experience of being a student
athlete attractive enough and inclusive enough to bring in enough
of those new generation Larry Birds and Magic Johnson's. So
it sounds like you you think you have confidence the
leadership can handle this name and likeness uh in in
(44:49):
the correct manner, because it sounds like that is the
also the other big domino to fall in college hoops. Yeah,
it appears that train is leaving the station right, and
it's not moving down the tracks, but it is definitely
you know, it's not moving down the tracks at a
fast rate, but it is pulling away from the station.
(45:10):
And I see that's something that's gonna be here. And
so it's how quickly does the n C double A
adapt and adjust? And it's gonna be trial and there,
you know, there's there's it's not gonna be uh, you know,
a perfect ascent. It's it's gonna take problem solving and
people that enjoy riddles and crossword puzzles and are creative
(45:33):
and left right right thinkers. Well, yeah, I'm sure you
saw the G League offered a couple of guys green
and cominga big money and I'm a minority owner in
an Australian basketball team, the Breakers, and we got R. J. Hampton,
who was you know, ticketed to be a star in
Texas because we're able to offer him money, sneaker deal,
and you know, eventually college hoops is probably gonna have
(45:56):
to cave and say, listen, we're gonna have to let
you guys profit off your name. And so you don't
explore those other options, that's the million dollar question, you know,
how our athletes compensated. You know, for years I've been
saying that if we had the equivalent of a bank
(46:18):
but for the n C double A that would grant
dollars based on financial hardship and need, then we may
not have had to get to this point because now
we're in the midst of the revolution. I'm not again
saying revolution like civil rights, but you know, in our
(46:41):
own way, you know, on us to a smaller degree,
there is a revolution going on. And if you don't
have evolution, we've learned, you have revolution. And so we
didn't evolve quickly enough. The Olympics back of the eighties
made some adjustments to the amateur model allowed their athletes
two create compensation, you know, so they could put food
(47:05):
on the table for their children while they were training
to win gold medals when competing in the Olympics for
our country. Um, but they they were probably even slow
to change. But the n C double A unfortunately didn't
move along quick enough. Now we're beginning to because of
this revolution, and uh, what could happen in the courts.
(47:26):
So I think if we had had that n C
double A bank, you know, and based on financial need,
not the performance of a player, but instead where is
their need, Men's, women's, all sports. You know, when there's
a need, you know, and you've got to get documentation,
(47:46):
provide you know, as a single parent, no parents, you know,
tax returns, just like you do when you go into
any kind of bank. But this was would be an
n C double a bank. And because I think a
lot of the issues, you know, some people, it was
more about you know, getting paid to play the respective school.
(48:07):
Right That's where we have the FBI situation of the
past couple of years and the wire taps and all
of that. But I think the vast majority of scenarios
with student athletes is just the basic hardship. You know,
parents that are not employed, parents that don't have health insurance,
parents that can't you know, pay the rent or pay
(48:28):
for the heat through the winter, parents that can't afford
to come to games to watch their children play or
compete at a high level. So um. But but now
that the name image likeness, that thing is moving down
the tracks and again there'll be some trial and air
and some troubleshooting for sure. Um But I think just
(48:50):
like the Olympics, tweaking the amateur model is what's necessary. Yeah,
he is Steve Levin. You guys obviously know him from
the sidelines, the announcing booth. He probably should have opened,
I don't know, some kind of coaching school. I feel
like I learned a lot from you, as usual, Steve,
thanks a lot for the time, and enjoy the spring
(49:11):
in San Francisco. I will always a pleasure. Let's do
it again down the line.
Host
Jason McIntyre
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