June 19, 2025 • 40 mins
On today’s episode, Jason discusses the shocking news that the Buss Family has finally decided to sell their majority stake in the Los Angeles Lakers to a group headlined by Los Angeles Dodgers ownership group frontman Mark Walter. Later, FOX Sports Radio NBA insider Mark Medina swings by to discuss the general lack of buzz for these NBA Finals, the short and long-term impact of Tyrese Haliburton’s calf injury, a few NBA comps for presumptive #1 overall pick Cooper Flagg, all the negative headlines currently surrounding projected top-5 pick Ace Bailey, the likelihood that that Giannis Antetokounmpo actually gets traded, why he expects Kevin Durant will ultimately wind up with the Miami Heat, and much more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up straight Fire, Fam, It's me Jason McIntyre,
Straight Fire for Thursday, June the nineteenth, Big Big Podcast Today.
And oh, by the way, great night in sports tonight.
You got Game six of the NBA Finals. Let's mercifully
put it to a close, give it the thunder. Hopefully
(00:31):
Halliburton doesn't play it sounds like he's a game time decision. Also,
that Caitlin Clark playing on Amazon Prime n a WNBA game,
you know that's going to be well watched after Tuesday
night's you know, incident with the Connecticut Sun. And you've
got USA Soccer against Saudi Arabia, and folks, I know
(00:56):
I was bullish on the USA and in the Gold
Cup and they rolled in the openers expect. But if
you look at the gambling line for the Saudi Arabia game,
they are in. USA is not a big favorite and
this would be a bad loss for Pochattino here on
US Oil. So yeah, we need to get the dub
USA Soccer Saudi. Let me check the time. I'm pretty
(01:17):
sure that's eight eastern, five Pacific and it should be
on Fox right But anyway, so three really good games
tonight in sports, And obviously we have a big story
to talk about before we get to our guest, Mark Medina,
(01:37):
longtime NBA writer who's just excellent, and we talk about everything.
We talk about the Finals, we talked about free agency,
we talk about Cooper Flag. You're gonna enjoy the interview.
But obviously, there was the big, big Lakers sale on
Wednesday that went down for about ten billion dollars. That's
(01:59):
the alleged price. Tag probably won't come in at ten,
but they, like everybody, wants to throw a big round
number out there, get a huge Oh my gosh, it's
the most largest franchise sale in the sports history globally.
It's a big one and there are a lot of
angles and tentacles to it. I'm not going to dive
deep into it. Bottom line is the new owner, this
(02:21):
gentleman Walter is in the ownership group of the Dodgers.
And since they took over the since he got in
the group, I don't know, ten fifteen years ago for
the Dodgers, they have been spending money significantly. They have
made the Dodgers a robust business. They remember the Dodgers
were not in the early two thousands. They were not
(02:42):
like some juggernaut. They were not a machine. And savvy
ownership group has basically the Dodgers printing money. They spend
money at a great clip. And remember the Lakers were
run by the Bus family and they don't have their
own arena. I think you can already anticipate that this
new Lakers ownership group already has the land mapped out.
(03:04):
I was texting with a buddy. He's like, I bet
it's going to go here, and I was like, can
we get in our real estate before you know anything happens.
The way to print money in sports is have your
own arena, right, and then not only do you own
the arena, but the surrounding area. You make like a scene,
a vibe where you have gambling or what have you,
(03:27):
and hotels and not an amusement park, but you make
it a place where a destination. And I would guess,
just like the Clippers, you know, Balmer gets in and boom,
they've got a new arena. So I would guess by
twenty thirty, the Lakers have a new place. But the
real good news is that Luka Doncic, you know, Lebron's
(03:48):
probably got one more year. If you want to say
too fine, This would take the new ownership group with
Luca into his prime, and my guess is they will
be spending handsomely and Lakers will be very, very relevant
and not be afraid of the Second April for years
to come. Interesting tidbit, Now I didn't see this in
(04:09):
many of the stories, but according to Brian Windhorse, so
TWG is the group Walter has that bought the Lakers,
and back in April they announced they're starting a fund
and they're seeking fifteen million dollars and they got somebody
to chip in ten million dollars ten I'm sorry, ten
billion dollars. They got someone to chip in ten billion
dollars of the fifteen they were seeking, and it's a
(04:31):
Saudi Arabian group ten billion dollars. So within I don't know,
three months, TWG takes that ten billion and buys the Lakers.
So if you want to get oh, there's Saudi oil
money in the NBA, well, I mean yeah, the Saudis
(04:51):
are looking to diversify. And guess what if you're in
sports ownership, you know we had a team in New Zealand,
a soccer team or our group recently sold. They did
pretty well. There's a soccer team. We're ownership group in
These sports teams are very very lucrative. And if you
(05:12):
think about it, when you're looking at ten billion for
the Lakers, what you think there's a lot of people
in America who can get in on that. What do
you have like five hundred people maybe? And do are
they willing to drop ten billion in cash to get involved?
You know? Like, I don't think so. I think it's
shrunk to the point where you need to look for
overseas money. And whether or not you guys want to
(05:33):
hear about it, that's the reality. I mean, the Saudi
Saudis have all the oil money and that's not running
out anytime soon. So you know, I'm sure people are
going to talk about this, is it good for the league?
Bad for the league? I don't see it as a
big deal. Obviously, other people will disagree. What about what
is it? What was it called sports washing or something
(05:53):
like that. I don't know, guys, I can't. I'm sorry,
I just I cannot get that worked up about that.
Other times topics politically, yeah, I can't get worked up
about it, don't get me started. But the Lakers coming
under new ownership here is gonna be significant. And yes,
Genie Buss is still gonna be the quote unquote governor.
You guys don't how this works. Okay, if you spend
ten billion dollars on something, you're not letting someone else
(06:18):
run the business for years. Obviously you want the good
pr Everybody loves Genie Buss. She's major. She's an icon
out here in La. Her dad bought the Lakers. She's
been around the team forever, saw the showtime Lakers. You know,
like she's royalty out here. You don't want to make
it an ugly exit, but you can best be sure
(06:39):
her being the governor of the Lakers, and I'm sure
she's gonna be calling the shots on a bunch of
stuff this whole, like player day to day stuff. Let's
be real. She can have a voice, but ultimately, if
you're spending ten billion dollars, it's your show. Anyways, without
further ado, let's get to our guest, NBA writer Mark Medina.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Know a guy Jason likes to think he knows everything
when it comes to sports.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I know what sports fans want.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
But for everything he doesn't. He knows a guy who does.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Let's just say I know a guy who knows a
guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
All right, let's welcome back to straight Fire, a guy
we love to chop up the NBA with. Because listen,
this is a busy time right now. You've got NBA
Draft workouts, You've got the NBA Finals likely coming to
a close, the draft next week, and then of course
free agency. What's true? What's not? Mark Medina, who's covered
the league forever, He's been in many stops. Mark, how
(07:36):
you doing man?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Jay Mack, I'm always doing well. When I got to
reunite with you and talk some hoop, and there's always
so much going on, maybe not so much make sure
interest at the NBA Finals, but we can give it
wherever you want to go.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So okay. So yeah, So when I was hosting the Herd,
I kind of went and had his viral moment because
I said I'm not excited for the finals. Now, people
took that I think the wrong way. But by not excited,
I meant like there isn't a ton of juice for
the finals. That doesn't mean I'm not gonna watch. Of course,
I'm gonna watch that the games have been I mean
three of the games have been freaking excellent. I think
(08:12):
it's been a good finals. But listen, I hate to
say that, Mark the numbers back me up. The general
public is not tuning in making this mandatory watching. I
don't know, do you. Obviously it's been a great final,
we know that, but do you do you have your
friends texting, oh my gosh, the Finals? Oh dude, do you
want to go watch a game somewhere? Are you getting
vibes like that? No?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I mean, I think your analysis is pretty spot on
that inevitably the interest in the NBA Finals, So it
would be much higher if you know, a team like
the Lakers or the Warriors or the Celtics were in
the Knicks, and if there was a generational star player.
But I think, you know, obviously both things can be true.
Those teams, those stars move the needle more than small
market teams like the Hoplaholma City Thunder Indiana Passer, especially
(08:56):
since they're so young and they do have star players
like Shay Goods out Ander Tyris Haliburton, but they're much
earlier in their career than later, So you know, it
could really be a fourth in the road moment, or
we are seeing good basketball, We're seeing good moments. Maybe
this plants the seeds for there to be more interest
should either team or both get back to the NBA Finals.
But what you're saying, I don't. I don't know why
(09:17):
there's so much consternation with that. You know, I think
you just SATISPA.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's a small market thing irks people. And again, listen,
when Lebron got a super team in Cleveland, nobody Cleveland's
a small market, nobody, nobody had issues with that, right,
I don't. I don't think there was beef. Again, I'm
all for super teams. I don't care if it's small
market or big market. I want teams to get people
fired up. And Mark, I don't know, are you passionate
(09:42):
about the Pacers or the thunder? And I know people
are trying to make the thunder. We'll get to them
in a second, But like, are you passionate about the
players of the teams here yet?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah? With the cave out that, like, I got no
stakes in the game here or or skin in the game.
I've liked the basketball, I've liked performances. There is obviously
a different feel when you're seeing some of those familiar
faces I think the best way to answer this is
something I asked Rick Welts when he was the Warriors
presidence during the Warriors dynasty, and he has so much
(10:14):
perspective work in the league office during the eighties and nineties,
and I asked him the whole idea at that point
in time, it was, you know, the Warriors have another
championship with Kevin Durant, Is this dynasty bad for the NBA?
And he diverted that question on whether super teams dynasties
are bad versus it's good for the NBA to celebrate excellence.
(10:35):
So what does that mean. I don't think it matters
either way. Super team, big market, small market. The quality
just has to be there. And I think what you're
saying is both things can be true. There is an
intrinsic advantage that some of these big market teams, the
familiar superstars have in this present moment because there is
(10:57):
that build an audience where the Pacers under Shay Halburn,
they're just getting started, but they could plant the seeds
for further excellence. So I think whether you're big, small,
you love the super teams, you dislike him, the common
denominator that should matter is what does the products on
the floor look like? And is that enough to keep
(11:18):
me engaged?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, you say should and I would agree with you
and welts it should matter. But the reality is, like
when the Bucks and Sons went to the finals, they
should have mattered. They were planting seeds. They didn't. Either's
gotten back when they heaped and Nuggets got to the final,
they were planting seeds, like you know, neither's gotten back,
(11:39):
So like you could, I mean, it sounds like it's
a great SoundBite what Wels told you, but the reality is,
I think what moved the needle the last fifteen years was, Hey, man,
I cannot believe Kevin Durant went to the Warriors. Man,
screw that guy. What channels the game on? You know,
I can't believe Lebron's getting all these stars to Miami?
What time is the game?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
That's the entry. People get fed up when the superstars
move around. Now this summer and we'll get to it.
Seems like there's gonna be a lot of movement. But
just real quick, Game six is Thursday, and I'm just
like I thought Game four was the series. If Indye
wins that, then we had a series up three to one,
they blow the four point lead in the final three minutes.
(12:18):
It felt like series over to me. Pacers have lost
to Halliburton's got the calf. Do you even think he'll play?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
That's up in the air, I mean Rick Hartll and on
Tyris Salburn himself. So it's very uncertain. And as you
have alluded to in the podcast and others have right,
calf injuries are serious here, and so you know you
only have to lean on Kevin Durant twenty nineteen playoffs
for perspective. Miss seven games dating from the second round
of the playoffs or the entire Western Conference Finals against Portland.
(12:48):
Didn't come back until game five in the twenty nineteen
finals against Toronto, and then he comes back for almost
a quarter, plays really well, and then Terris's achilles, and
so this is a much shorter timeline where it's literally
game of the game. If I had a guess, and
this is only a guess because it's very fluid, I
think he does give it a ride because it's the
(13:09):
NBA Finals, but I think he's going to be on
a very very short lease. The first sign that he
looks uncomfortable, I think Rick Carlisle will pull him. And
I think here's why. On one hand, you think, okay, well,
it's an elimination game, it's the NBA Finals, you have
to go all out. True, But if you're risking not
necessarily an injury, but a potential long term injury that
(13:32):
then wipes them him out for possibly the entirety of
next season, that's where he draw the line. So again,
prediction will be he will play, but very short leash
and will be monitored very closely.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, we already lost now Dame Lillard for next year.
We already lost Jason Tatum for next year. Like we
we can't lose another American start if Haliburton goes down.
But all right, let's move off the finals just because,
like you know, the interest just isn't quite there. And
again I'm not being negative, but I do want to
pivot to the draft because you've been You did a
great piece with Cooper Flag's workout guy, his trainer, and
(14:08):
it's fascinating. I'm all in on Cooper Flag. I've comped
him to KG. I think he over under one and
a half. M VP's everybody left at me, give me
the over. I think Cooper Flag is going to be
a transcendent player in this league. Your thoughts working with
his trainer completely agree.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I mean, Matt McKenzie, his trainers worked with him since
he was in the seventh grade, and the common theme
from then till now is that he's seeing just how
much of a competitive mother, you know, what Cooper Flag
is like. During their workouts, He's always trying to find
ways to get him frustrated, whether it's you know, having
the officials miss a call or putting a lot of
(14:45):
physical defenders on him. And it was always players that
were older than him. And so as we saw in
Duke and as we're going to see in the NBA,
he is prepared for this moment. I think it was
it wasn't surprising, but it was telling that Matt McKenzie
confirmed that the Dallas Mavericks are the only team that
he's meeting with, only team people were working out with.
(15:07):
So there's no secrecy here on either side. The Dallas
Mavericks are going to draft Cooper Flag. And I think
what's interesting, whether you talk to Matt McKenzie or people
around the league, different executives, there's a common consensus that, yes,
he's going to be a transcended player, but for much
more different reasons that what you may have attached to
(15:29):
for other number one picks. Think of other number one
picks that came out of the draft, Lebron, James, Dwight Howard,
Victor Webbanama, all big guys. They had this definitive skill
set that are very strong big in Victor Wenbanama's case,
a little bit different. You know, he has point our
skills in a five man's body. Cooper Flag doesn't fit
(15:51):
that criteria. What Cooper Flag is is he is good
at a lot of things, but he's not a jack
of all trades master at none. He excels in a
lot of different areas as a wing defender, as a score,
as a playmaker, very competitive, very durable, and they feel
that because of all those different qualities, it can allow
(16:13):
him to be very adaptable for a number of reasons. One,
in today's NBA, you got to be a versatile, you
got to be adaptable. Number Two, when you're looking at
the Mavericks and the fit, there's a lot of moving
pieces where he doesn't have the same kind of pressure
that other number one picks have of being the franchise savior,
being on a rebuilding team. On paper, the Mavericks should
(16:36):
be a playoff team with who they have, and so
that maybe shields a little bit of short term pressure
on Cooper to be the guy, be the man. But
at the same time, Kyrie Irving's not expected to be
back right away because of his ACL injury. There's always
questions about Anthony Davis and his injury history, and so
with that there's a comfort level that Cooper Fly could
(16:58):
relatively see and seemlessly pivot from option one, option two,
option three, depending on how that roster fluidity plays out
next season.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
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Speaker 2 (17:21):
In a word, when I hear this, I don't know
Baron Davis, not forget who it was. Who several guys
have done it, who have looked for comps for Cooper
Flag and they say Andrea Kirilenko And to me in
a word, that's disrespectful as shit. I mean, Carolinko never
once was an All NBA player. He was a one
time All Star, an All Defensive Team a few times
(17:44):
if Cooper Flag was Andre Kirilinko that he would be
a bust. I mean, he wouldn't be Anthony Bennett level bust,
but I mean Carolinko average his best career game with
sixteen and a half points per game. I think Cooper
Flag could average out as a rookie coming off the
bench for the mass. What's your NBA comp? And I
know some people hate them and whatever, but I need
a name there.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Mark.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Say Max, I'm sorry for I disappoint I'm struggling to
come up with a comp only because Cooper Flag seems
just like a very unique player. And I've asked the
same thing as some other executives and they struggled coming
up with player comps. But one executive facifically told me,
maybe this has been surprising, but it affirms what you're
saying that any comp that comparison are Carolinko isn't the
(18:27):
right one because of the body of work they're one't
executives projecting the Cooper Flag is going to be a
multi year All Star player and an All NBA player
basically every single year, and Rookie of the Year favor
and so I think people might not have clarity. Okay,
how many championships is he gonna win? What's going to be?
(18:48):
But yeah, they exactly what your point and he's just
getting started. I think it's very telling, very comforted, and
that people around the league are already projecting, Yeah, we've
seen Cooper flag play. Hansulhiman to make the All Star
Game every single year, Hans Solhiman to make All NBA
every single year. Now does not clarity on does any
(19:09):
l NBA First team, second team, third team? But what
are on one of those three teams? That means you're
going to have a hell of a career and much
better than Andre Carolinko?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, what about Scotty Pitman? Is that too rich?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I could see the player cop simply through the lens
that Scottie Pimpott was very versatile, great defender, very adaptable.
As far as being the second option, we saw during
Michael Jordan's short retirement while playing baseball that he was
mostly good as a number one option.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
They won like fifty five games with I.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Think I think the difference is and we'll have to
see obviously how Cooper actually plays in the NBA, But
the early body of work at Duke and you know,
growing up, he seems to be very, very relentless, tough
as nails, plays through injuries, and you know, whether it's
(20:06):
fair or not, Scott he wasn't seen as that kind
of player.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, I remember the migrating on the on the bench
against the Pistons and young early in his career.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
No doubt, no doubt. But I think what we're getting
at is that maybe we're struggling finding player comps, but
we're not struggling to say that Cooper Flag is going
to be a generational talent. He's gonna have instant impact
and he's gonna have a hell of a resume. I
don't know where the ring count's gonna be, but Pennsilman
every single year that maybe exception a rookie year, he'll
(20:37):
make the All Star team and an All NBA team.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, it's tough with that. With the rings, I mean,
you know, he's going to start out with Kyrie and Ad.
Kyrie is going to miss much of the season, and like,
I don't know how what that roster is going to
look like in February of twenty six, probably dramatically different.
Maybe they make a splash move here in July, but Yeah,
I wouldn't be shocked if like Trey Johnson, kid from Texas,
(21:01):
goes to the Wizards, puts up nineteen the game and
wins Rookie of the Year. It's it's kind of hollow.
It'd be like Tyreek Evans beating Curry for Rookie of the Year.
What did it mean, Jack squat? You know, it just
didn't mean anything elsewhere in the draft. It's weird. There
was some stuff coming out about Ace Bailey, who is
like prodigiously talented. You look at him and you're like, oh,
that could I can. I can see a little Paul
(21:22):
George there, but he's like not wanting to work out
for teams because he feels like I'm a top three guy.
He's already talking about himself as a foundational piece on teams.
I I like Ash Bailey, bro could not get Rutgers
to the NCAA tournament, and he had another lottery pick
on his team in Harper the point guard. So I
(21:44):
don't what do you what are you hearing on Bailey?
Eighth Bailey who is really really talented?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, I think the one thing I'll enter Jeck Real
Cloick as far as like declining workouts. It's sparked for
me to read into that because the top prospects mostly
have done that and so that aside. Though, yeah, there
are question marks about Ace Bailey. I think that, you know,
there's a lot of optimism about his athleticism, his one
on one skills, but there's also a lack of clarity
(22:12):
how is that going to translate into the NBA how's
that going to translate within a team concept? So I
think very talented, He's going to be a hell of
a score. He's going to be a Cooper Flag. There's
not as much of a clarity on Okay, how does
he work within a team? How adaptable is he going
(22:34):
to be with his role? And you know, the clear
talent separation in this serious draft it's Cooper Flag and
everyone else. If I think the other distinguishable quality that
carries through not just with Dailey but everyone else is
there's not really clarity okay, how is he going to
be fitting on a specific team. There is the old
edge in the NBA draft. You still draft on talent
(22:57):
because that usually takes care of things and you can
refine player development depending on which team it is. But
it obviously is important how our young prospects fits in
the team and how they can impact winning basketball. And
there's just not a lot of clary for better or
for worse on that question about as Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I think back to let me just so it was
a twenty twenty draft and that was the one where
Ant went first, and then the.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Games wise when it went second.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That's so James Wiseman to the Warriors, in which you know,
really could have gotten Curry multiple more title. They'll say,
I know he's still one another. But what's interesting was
LaMelo Ball went three, and everybody's like, oh, can you
imagine Labello Ball with Curry and the Warriors? And I
was like, actually, I can't because of the way LaMelo
Ball plays, and I don't want to compare him to Bailey,
(23:47):
but like they're like empty calorie guys. I'm gonna get mine.
I don't know that a Lamello Ball or Ace Bailey
could pull a Kevin Love who had a bunch of
empty stats in Minnesota they never got anywhere, but he
was like twenty five and twelve and then he was
willing to take a back seat in Cleveland with Lebron
and Kyrie. Like I don't know that Ace Bailey or
(24:07):
LaMelo Ball, I don't know that they're built to take
a back seat. Is that Does that sound fair or not? Really?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I think it does sound fair. And I think
when we're going back to that twenty twenty draft with
the Warriors of picking Wiseman, obviously a lot of things
come out later on that you wish she knew, But
at the time their thinking was, well, they had no
shotgatting you or because he's going to Minnesota. They did
have concerns about LaMelo with his durability and just the
(24:36):
fact that, yeah, they already have Steph Curry. Maybe in
the short term it could relieve some pressure off of
Klay Thompson a little bit. But keep in mind that
at the draft they didn't know that Clay Thompson was
going to be hurt again. That's literally on Draft night,
that's when he then injured his achilles, So that softened
(25:00):
the equation. But I think the other thing, even though
clearly that James Wiseman picked in panned out, uh, they're
trying to find ways to relieve playing time and pressure
off of Draymond because he often played at center, but
they don't want him to have to do everything, and
they wanted to have that lob threat. And historically during
the Warriors dynasty they had good role players, but certainly
not great centers when you're thinking of JaVale McGee and
(25:24):
Zaza Pachulia, David West. So they're still trying to retain that.
And they also thought, you know what, this could put
less pressure for James to have to develop, and this
can be or you know, this could give some time
for him to develop organically. But what's wild Jason's I
remember when he was drafted at number two. To be clear,
the Warriors weren't putting this out, but there was talk about, oh,
(25:46):
he could be the next David Robinson.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
And that could have been further mar the COVID draft
total disaster. It was the same thing in the NFL.
But these are just some of the guys who went
top ten. Wiseman, Patrick William's total for the Bulls, Isaac Okoro,
I mean he's not that guy. A kung Wu, I
like Killy and Hayes at seven needs no introduction. Obi
Toppins been good, but Denny Avdia nine, Jalen Smith ten.
(26:12):
I don't even know if Jalen Smith's in the league.
Vassal eleven and then Halliburton went twelve. Kind of fell
into Sacramento's lap. But like it was just that was
a weird draft, the COVID draft, and I don't know,
it feels like the ramifications have been felt like the
Hornets have. I don't think they have a playoff appearance.
The Bulls certainly don't haven't done anything. It's just been tough.
Now that leads us into this offseason mark, and let's
(26:37):
start with Giannis. Win Horse keeps saying Giannis is not
gonna ask for trade. Does that mean Giannis is not
gonna get traded?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That's a good question. It's very tough because the box
and Giannis had been very adamant that nothing's gonna happen.
The East landscape is wide open. Says he's happy to
be there, you know, reasonably enough to want to stay.
But I just I don't see how this makes sense
(27:08):
here because the ray on the wall is clear. I've
lost in the first round for three consecutive years. There's
gonna be questions about Damian Lillard and his health next season,
and that's not going to work out. And so I
think that he is going to get traded. I just
don't know who blinks first. Now, in fairness, what they're
(27:29):
saying is true. Giannest is saying he doesn't want to leave,
the Bucks don't want to trade them, and I don't
think the Bucks will trade them unless it's very clear,
you know what, we feel that Jannis doesn't want to
be here. But I think it's a matter of when
and not if it's going to happen. And to be clear,
(27:49):
that's not what the signals are saying right now. The
Bucks are saying that complete opposite. So when I'm saying that,
I'm just sharing my observations as someone that follows the
NBA closely that it would make more sense that eventually
both parties come to the reality that they're better off
having an acrimonious departure saying thank you, but we're better
(28:12):
off Giannis trying to go on a better team and
the Bucks trying to get not equal value, because you
don't get equal value in these kind of trades, but
enough for them to reload both short and long term.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
The other problem with this Mark is this whole dumb
idea we're not going to trade him. Maybe it's the
deadline and things are going you're gonna get less, trade
him now and get as much a massive a haul
as you can. I know Bucks fans are gonna be ticked.
But like, again this is not apples to apples, but
we're minority owners in a soccer team in the top
league in Mexico, and everybody wants our top guy who
had an amazing season, and it's like, oh well, maybe
(28:49):
we'll hold on to them and all these guys, and
you just gotta I know the fans want certain things
and they want to keep you honest, but like, there's
no path to victory with him none. If you look
at that roster, one of the old just in the league,
Lillard with the achilles, I would guess he's out until
maybe April, right.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It maybe even the whole season.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Right, So if you remove him, who's your number two?
Kyle Kuzma. I don't even think they're Britagan Lopez back,
So you gotta find a center. They're gonna be paying
a massive tax bill, Like none of this, there's zero
path to success for them. My guess is that they're
working with Giannis closely behind the scenes to get a
deal done. Similarly to how Desmond Baine got a quiet deal.
(29:29):
Now I'm not saying he worked with Memphis, but quietly,
no reports, and then it happens. Now let's move to
Kevin Durant, which basically has like a BS storyline every day.
I don't know what's your relationship with Rich Clement. I've
been blasting him on this podcast trying to it's very
obvious what he's been doing. I'm curious just to your
thoughts on what the what's going on with Kevin Durant.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, well, I think you know the song to understand away,
so want to get a pretty hefty return because when healthy,
Kevin Durant still an All NBA player, but there's a
lot of complications. So we see what his injury history
has been. Understandably so where he's at a state of
his career. Things are never the same after your injury
or achilles even six years later. But also the amount
(30:15):
that's needed to get a player of Kevin Durant's stature.
But I think, again this is my own analysis here.
When you're looking at teams like San Antonio Houston, of
course they are interested in Kevin Durant, but when it
comes to the nitty gritty of okay, are you willing
to give up any portion of your young assets? As
(30:36):
well as uncertainty on how many games Kevin Durant will
be available for you. I think both teams will say thanks,
but no thanks. And that's why I think it's Kevin
Durant with Miami.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So who's money given up for?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well? So I love me walk you through this because historically,
when we were looking at the heat and the Damian
Loward trade is the most notable example, have also drawn
lines in the sand here, but they're also in a
different position. They're coming off first round exit to Cleveland,
So I think, you know, initially it'll be about okay,
you're not probably not getting a lot. You're getting a
(31:13):
lot of calls, but not a lot of actual serious offers.
This might be the best offer you can get of
Andrew Wiggins. I may Hawk as junior Duncan Robinson some
draft picks. The sons will probably say, you know what,
that's not good enough, and I think eventually that he
will say, you know what, we're going to include Tyler
Hero in this discussion. That's something that they've never wanted
(31:35):
to do before.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
You're talking about Hero, Wiggins and II May Hawk is.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
What I'm saying is, I think the initial offer will
include the player without Hero, and then and then the
calendar will be, Okay, we're gonna include Hero and then
figure out who they else they include to make the
numbers work, and also so they still have a semblance
of a roster. So I don't think it's going to
be all those players. But I think the first offer
(32:17):
will be Wiggins, Akaz Junior, Robinson a pick, and then
the Sons, this is Kevin Durant. They'll include Hero and
then they'll figure out who else they keep in that
Here's why I think Miami. Here's why I think Miami
will be willing to budget a little bit, just because
(32:37):
of where they're at. First round exit to Cleveland, the
sweep that Jimmy Butler saga didn't go well. You know,
historically under pat Riley, the Heat have never been about rebuilds.
It's about reloading. But I think that you can make
a case they're not going to be championship favorites, but
they could be a playoff team because you have Kevin Durant,
(32:58):
but ye have bam oudabay.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Hold On Mark. Okay, So basically, like you said, Bounce
in the first round, they got smashed badly by Cleveland.
If you remove two starters Wiggins and Hero, you now
basically have bam Adebayo and Kevin Durant and I don't
know davey On Mitchell and whoever else. You're not top
four in the East, right You're certainly not better than Nicks,
(33:24):
the Pacers, the Calves and who am I missing? Nick? Pacers?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Cats?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Is one other team that well we'll just leave it
at those three. You're not that great with kad Baham
and daviy On Mitchell. Are you getting out of the
first round? And that's my question, like because you.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Got a swan though.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Okay, but don't you have to sign Kate d to
a two year, one hundred million dollars deal. Yeah, Oh
my gosh, that's insane. Do you to get what Bounce
in the first round?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Well what happened this past season?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, but then they get Rogier's coming off the books.
He's inexpiring. Nan Robinson's like I would sooner, and that's
why I've been like, I don't even think there's really
a market for Kate. I know people love him, but
I'm not taking on bad salary for a guy who's
remember Kevin Durant two years at one hundred, you're going
to be paying him when he's thirty nine years old.
(34:16):
You're going to be paying him like fifty million dollars. Yeah,
is that not insane? He's not Lebron. I'm sorry, he's
just not holding out.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I think it's really the heat circumstances where they're at
that something is better than nothing. And Kevin, he's a
great practice player. When he's on the court, he's still
remarkably efficient. The problems that you outlined is that he
has injuries, and no one's deployed that against him. It's
just where he's at in his career and what's happened
since twenty nineteen, and also the cost to get him.
(34:47):
So I'm with you that there's going to be a
lot of calls about him, but there's also going to
be a lot of hang ups. And it's not because
no one wants Kevin Durant. It's just the cost to
get him just severely undermines teams roster depth, et cetera.
But I think in Miami's case, they're in a different position.
And also because of the market that you outline, I
(35:07):
think Phoenix is also going to be in a different position.
So I think it's going to be this partnership woroded
inconvenience and necessity for both sides.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Here we could wrap up, like I don't want to
be too reactionary to what could be an outlier finals,
but what we have seen in these playoffs, Mark is
it's very clearly becoming to succeed in the postseason right now,
you need youth and depth. Right these are two young teams.
I think Alex Caruso's like the oldest guy in the series,
(35:39):
or TJ McConnell something like that, but basically a rotational
player at least. And you look at that the way
these teams are picking up full court to wear guys down.
You saw the Knicks kind of wear down against full
court pressure from the Pacers' I'm of the belief that
Kevin Durant is like the opposite of what you want
right now to succeed, you want youth and depth. Why
would you add an old, expensive guy that hinders your
(36:02):
youth and depth. Not that Miami has any much of it,
that's great, but it just it feels like kad, like
the pendulum has swung far enough that boom second apron
all this stuff. I'm out on the older guys.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, no, I mean what you said is all true.
I think it's really relative to where Miami is at
their depth and the some of all parts weren't really
that enough to absorb Jimmy Butler's absence last year, and
so I think that they're of the mind let's just
still be competitive. Let's still be a playoff caliber team,
maybe not a championship caliber team, but a team that
(36:37):
still can get in the first round either, even if
it's a plan, still has a chance to be a
competitive out in the first round, maybe sneaks into the second.
But I think you outlined it perfectly here that to
compete for a championship you have to have all those things.
It's just very hard to have all those things because
it takes time. You need to not only draft right,
(36:59):
but have the time to collect all those picks and
use it on good players. And so with a thunder,
they've gotten to this point, and it took a while
basically ever since theot Paul George, which was what.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Nineteen So yeah, so within six years they went from hey,
let's bought them out stockpile picks, and boom, they're in
the finals and they're set up for success.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And here here is the irony of the landscape. Here.
It takes time for teams to draft develop players, but
teams other teams aren't patient to make moves. But also
the way the CBA is, you don't have a lot
of wiggle room to retain your young talent once they're
(37:44):
out eligible for extensions. And so in today's MBA, with
not having a repeat champion, you know the NBA will
be like, okay, well that's that's in short parody, but
it hasn't ensured sustained parody. And so the thunder they
don't have to make those decisions because Shanlee and Williams
shut Homer and they're not eligible for extensions I think
(38:06):
till two years from now. But that's really what's the
challenging part. And whether you like the Dynasty era or
you like the parody, the challenging part is there's not
that avenue for sustained parody because of the second apron concern.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, I will add the counter to, hey, Jason, not
everybody old, Like, if Steph Curry doesn't go down, You've
got Curry, Draymond and Jimmy Butler, three old guys who
were able to squeak by young Houston. And I don't
know that Minnesota beats them if they if Curry's healthy.
I mean, maybe there's a world where you know those three,
(38:45):
But I just don't see a team where KD can
play the Jimmy Butler role to a Curry, Like, where
is there another Curry or even a player of that caliber.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yeah, it's a fair question. I think. You know, again,
it goes back to relative perspective here that I think
Miami can make the case, Well, they had better coaching
than Phoenix. They didn't. They don't have the most roster
depth out of anyone in the league, but they have
better pieces that will put less pressure on Katie and
allow him to flourish much better than what we saw
(39:19):
during his time in Phoenix. So again, it's all relative.
These aren't This isn't going to be a seismic shift
as far as oh when Katie went to the Warriors.
Now they're the championship favorites, but it enables I think
Miami to still have that identity of they're a tough
playoff team that you don't want to face.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And listen, you know, Tyler hero and Devin Booker, they're
not They're probably struggling to stop me and you defensively.
If that happens for the Phoenix Suns, I mean that's
you know, Tyler hero k It doesn't guard anyone or
even pretend to, and he needs shots. Now, he would
be a good fit in Phoenix because he likes, you know,
the ig models, and we know Devin Booker is a
ladies man, so maybe that works out for hero Just kidding,
(40:00):
all right, Mark Medina great stuff has always enjoyed the
rest of the finals, the draft. Oh, it's a summer
of basketball ahead, man, Thanks again.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yes, sir, appreciate you. Looking forward to that and Vegas
in Summer League.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yes, I forgot Cooper flag in Summer League.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yes day, It's going to be monumental, historic,
This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is up straight Fire, Fam, It's me Jason McIntyre,
Straight Fire for Thursday, June the nineteenth, Big Big Podcast Today.
And oh, by the way, great night in sports tonight.
You got Game six of the NBA Finals. Let's mercifully
put it to a close, give it the thunder. Hopefully
(00:31):
Halliburton doesn't play it sounds like he's a game time decision. Also,
that Caitlin Clark playing on Amazon Prime n a WNBA game,
you know that's going to be well watched after Tuesday
night's you know, incident with the Connecticut Sun. And you've
got USA Soccer against Saudi Arabia, and folks, I know
(00:56):
I was bullish on the USA and in the Gold
Cup and they rolled in the openers expect. But if
you look at the gambling line for the Saudi Arabia game,
they are in. USA is not a big favorite and
this would be a bad loss for Pochattino here on
US Oil. So yeah, we need to get the dub
USA Soccer Saudi. Let me check the time. I'm pretty
(01:17):
sure that's eight eastern, five Pacific and it should be
on Fox right But anyway, so three really good games
tonight in sports, And obviously we have a big story
to talk about before we get to our guest, Mark Medina,
(01:37):
longtime NBA writer who's just excellent, and we talk about everything.
We talk about the Finals, we talked about free agency,
we talk about Cooper Flag. You're gonna enjoy the interview.
But obviously, there was the big, big Lakers sale on
Wednesday that went down for about ten billion dollars. That's
(01:59):
the alleged price. Tag probably won't come in at ten,
but they, like everybody, wants to throw a big round
number out there, get a huge Oh my gosh, it's
the most largest franchise sale in the sports history globally.
It's a big one and there are a lot of
angles and tentacles to it. I'm not going to dive
deep into it. Bottom line is the new owner, this
(02:21):
gentleman Walter is in the ownership group of the Dodgers.
And since they took over the since he got in
the group, I don't know, ten fifteen years ago for
the Dodgers, they have been spending money significantly. They have
made the Dodgers a robust business. They remember the Dodgers
were not in the early two thousands. They were not
(02:42):
like some juggernaut. They were not a machine. And savvy
ownership group has basically the Dodgers printing money. They spend
money at a great clip. And remember the Lakers were
run by the Bus family and they don't have their
own arena. I think you can already anticipate that this
new Lakers ownership group already has the land mapped out.
(03:04):
I was texting with a buddy. He's like, I bet
it's going to go here, and I was like, can
we get in our real estate before you know anything happens.
The way to print money in sports is have your
own arena, right, and then not only do you own
the arena, but the surrounding area. You make like a scene,
a vibe where you have gambling or what have you,
(03:27):
and hotels and not an amusement park, but you make
it a place where a destination. And I would guess,
just like the Clippers, you know, Balmer gets in and boom,
they've got a new arena. So I would guess by
twenty thirty, the Lakers have a new place. But the
real good news is that Luka Doncic, you know, Lebron's
(03:48):
probably got one more year. If you want to say
too fine, This would take the new ownership group with
Luca into his prime, and my guess is they will
be spending handsomely and Lakers will be very, very relevant
and not be afraid of the Second April for years
to come. Interesting tidbit, Now I didn't see this in
(04:09):
many of the stories, but according to Brian Windhorse, so
TWG is the group Walter has that bought the Lakers,
and back in April they announced they're starting a fund
and they're seeking fifteen million dollars and they got somebody
to chip in ten million dollars ten I'm sorry, ten
billion dollars. They got someone to chip in ten billion
dollars of the fifteen they were seeking, and it's a
(04:31):
Saudi Arabian group ten billion dollars. So within I don't know,
three months, TWG takes that ten billion and buys the Lakers.
So if you want to get oh, there's Saudi oil
money in the NBA, well, I mean yeah, the Saudis
(04:51):
are looking to diversify. And guess what if you're in
sports ownership, you know we had a team in New Zealand,
a soccer team or our group recently sold. They did
pretty well. There's a soccer team. We're ownership group in
These sports teams are very very lucrative. And if you
(05:12):
think about it, when you're looking at ten billion for
the Lakers, what you think there's a lot of people
in America who can get in on that. What do
you have like five hundred people maybe? And do are
they willing to drop ten billion in cash to get involved?
You know? Like, I don't think so. I think it's
shrunk to the point where you need to look for
overseas money. And whether or not you guys want to
(05:33):
hear about it, that's the reality. I mean, the Saudi
Saudis have all the oil money and that's not running
out anytime soon. So you know, I'm sure people are
going to talk about this, is it good for the league?
Bad for the league? I don't see it as a
big deal. Obviously, other people will disagree. What about what
is it? What was it called sports washing or something
(05:53):
like that. I don't know, guys, I can't. I'm sorry,
I just I cannot get that worked up about that.
Other times topics politically, yeah, I can't get worked up
about it, don't get me started. But the Lakers coming
under new ownership here is gonna be significant. And yes,
Genie Buss is still gonna be the quote unquote governor.
You guys don't how this works. Okay, if you spend
ten billion dollars on something, you're not letting someone else
(06:18):
run the business for years. Obviously you want the good
pr Everybody loves Genie Buss. She's major. She's an icon
out here in La. Her dad bought the Lakers. She's
been around the team forever, saw the showtime Lakers. You know,
like she's royalty out here. You don't want to make
it an ugly exit, but you can best be sure
(06:39):
her being the governor of the Lakers, and I'm sure
she's gonna be calling the shots on a bunch of
stuff this whole, like player day to day stuff. Let's
be real. She can have a voice, but ultimately, if
you're spending ten billion dollars, it's your show. Anyways, without
further ado, let's get to our guest, NBA writer Mark Medina.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Know a guy Jason likes to think he knows everything
when it comes to sports.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I know what sports fans want.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
But for everything he doesn't. He knows a guy who does.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Let's just say I know a guy who knows a
guy who knows another guy.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
All right, let's welcome back to straight Fire, a guy
we love to chop up the NBA with. Because listen,
this is a busy time right now. You've got NBA
Draft workouts, You've got the NBA Finals likely coming to
a close, the draft next week, and then of course
free agency. What's true? What's not? Mark Medina, who's covered
the league forever, He's been in many stops. Mark, how
(07:36):
you doing man?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Jay Mack, I'm always doing well. When I got to
reunite with you and talk some hoop, and there's always
so much going on, maybe not so much make sure
interest at the NBA Finals, but we can give it
wherever you want to go.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So okay. So yeah, So when I was hosting the Herd,
I kind of went and had his viral moment because
I said I'm not excited for the finals. Now, people
took that I think the wrong way. But by not excited,
I meant like there isn't a ton of juice for
the finals. That doesn't mean I'm not gonna watch. Of course,
I'm gonna watch that the games have been I mean
three of the games have been freaking excellent. I think
(08:12):
it's been a good finals. But listen, I hate to
say that, Mark the numbers back me up. The general
public is not tuning in making this mandatory watching. I
don't know, do you. Obviously it's been a great final,
we know that, but do you do you have your
friends texting, oh my gosh, the Finals? Oh dude, do you
want to go watch a game somewhere? Are you getting
vibes like that? No?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I mean, I think your analysis is pretty spot on
that inevitably the interest in the NBA Finals, So it
would be much higher if you know, a team like
the Lakers or the Warriors or the Celtics were in
the Knicks, and if there was a generational star player.
But I think, you know, obviously both things can be true.
Those teams, those stars move the needle more than small
market teams like the Hoplaholma City Thunder Indiana Passer, especially
(08:56):
since they're so young and they do have star players
like Shay Goods out Ander Tyris Haliburton, but they're much
earlier in their career than later, So you know, it
could really be a fourth in the road moment, or
we are seeing good basketball, We're seeing good moments. Maybe
this plants the seeds for there to be more interest
should either team or both get back to the NBA Finals.
But what you're saying, I don't. I don't know why
(09:17):
there's so much consternation with that. You know, I think
you just SATISPA.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's a small market thing irks people. And again, listen,
when Lebron got a super team in Cleveland, nobody Cleveland's
a small market, nobody, nobody had issues with that, right,
I don't. I don't think there was beef. Again, I'm
all for super teams. I don't care if it's small
market or big market. I want teams to get people
fired up. And Mark, I don't know, are you passionate
(09:42):
about the Pacers or the thunder? And I know people
are trying to make the thunder. We'll get to them
in a second, But like, are you passionate about the
players of the teams here yet?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah? With the cave out that, like, I got no
stakes in the game here or or skin in the game.
I've liked the basketball, I've liked performances. There is obviously
a different feel when you're seeing some of those familiar
faces I think the best way to answer this is
something I asked Rick Welts when he was the Warriors
presidence during the Warriors dynasty, and he has so much
(10:14):
perspective work in the league office during the eighties and nineties,
and I asked him the whole idea at that point
in time, it was, you know, the Warriors have another
championship with Kevin Durant, Is this dynasty bad for the NBA?
And he diverted that question on whether super teams dynasties
are bad versus it's good for the NBA to celebrate excellence.
(10:35):
So what does that mean. I don't think it matters
either way. Super team, big market, small market. The quality
just has to be there. And I think what you're
saying is both things can be true. There is an
intrinsic advantage that some of these big market teams, the
familiar superstars have in this present moment because there is
(10:57):
that build an audience where the Pacers under Shay Halburn,
they're just getting started, but they could plant the seeds
for further excellence. So I think whether you're big, small,
you love the super teams, you dislike him, the common
denominator that should matter is what does the products on
the floor look like? And is that enough to keep
(11:18):
me engaged?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, you say should and I would agree with you
and welts it should matter. But the reality is, like
when the Bucks and Sons went to the finals, they
should have mattered. They were planting seeds. They didn't. Either's
gotten back when they heaped and Nuggets got to the final,
they were planting seeds, like you know, neither's gotten back,
(11:39):
So like you could, I mean, it sounds like it's
a great SoundBite what Wels told you, but the reality is,
I think what moved the needle the last fifteen years was, Hey, man,
I cannot believe Kevin Durant went to the Warriors. Man,
screw that guy. What channels the game on? You know,
I can't believe Lebron's getting all these stars to Miami?
What time is the game?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
That's the entry. People get fed up when the superstars
move around. Now this summer and we'll get to it.
Seems like there's gonna be a lot of movement. But
just real quick, Game six is Thursday, and I'm just
like I thought Game four was the series. If Indye
wins that, then we had a series up three to one,
they blow the four point lead in the final three minutes.
(12:18):
It felt like series over to me. Pacers have lost
to Halliburton's got the calf. Do you even think he'll play?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
That's up in the air, I mean Rick Hartll and on
Tyris Salburn himself. So it's very uncertain. And as you
have alluded to in the podcast and others have right,
calf injuries are serious here, and so you know you
only have to lean on Kevin Durant twenty nineteen playoffs
for perspective. Miss seven games dating from the second round
of the playoffs or the entire Western Conference Finals against Portland.
(12:48):
Didn't come back until game five in the twenty nineteen
finals against Toronto, and then he comes back for almost
a quarter, plays really well, and then Terris's achilles, and
so this is a much shorter timeline where it's literally
game of the game. If I had a guess, and
this is only a guess because it's very fluid, I
think he does give it a ride because it's the
(13:09):
NBA Finals, but I think he's going to be on
a very very short lease. The first sign that he
looks uncomfortable, I think Rick Carlisle will pull him. And
I think here's why. On one hand, you think, okay, well,
it's an elimination game, it's the NBA Finals, you have
to go all out. True, But if you're risking not
necessarily an injury, but a potential long term injury that
(13:32):
then wipes them him out for possibly the entirety of
next season, that's where he draw the line. So again,
prediction will be he will play, but very short leash
and will be monitored very closely.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, we already lost now Dame Lillard for next year.
We already lost Jason Tatum for next year. Like we
we can't lose another American start if Haliburton goes down.
But all right, let's move off the finals just because,
like you know, the interest just isn't quite there. And
again I'm not being negative, but I do want to
pivot to the draft because you've been You did a
great piece with Cooper Flag's workout guy, his trainer, and
(14:08):
it's fascinating. I'm all in on Cooper Flag. I've comped
him to KG. I think he over under one and
a half. M VP's everybody left at me, give me
the over. I think Cooper Flag is going to be
a transcendent player in this league. Your thoughts working with
his trainer completely agree.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I mean, Matt McKenzie, his trainers worked with him since
he was in the seventh grade, and the common theme
from then till now is that he's seeing just how
much of a competitive mother, you know, what Cooper Flag
is like. During their workouts, He's always trying to find
ways to get him frustrated, whether it's you know, having
the officials miss a call or putting a lot of
(14:45):
physical defenders on him. And it was always players that
were older than him. And so as we saw in
Duke and as we're going to see in the NBA,
he is prepared for this moment. I think it was
it wasn't surprising, but it was telling that Matt McKenzie
confirmed that the Dallas Mavericks are the only team that
he's meeting with, only team people were working out with.
(15:07):
So there's no secrecy here on either side. The Dallas
Mavericks are going to draft Cooper Flag. And I think
what's interesting, whether you talk to Matt McKenzie or people
around the league, different executives, there's a common consensus that, yes,
he's going to be a transcended player, but for much
more different reasons that what you may have attached to
(15:29):
for other number one picks. Think of other number one
picks that came out of the draft, Lebron, James, Dwight Howard,
Victor Webbanama, all big guys. They had this definitive skill
set that are very strong big in Victor Wenbanama's case,
a little bit different. You know, he has point our
skills in a five man's body. Cooper Flag doesn't fit
(15:51):
that criteria. What Cooper Flag is is he is good
at a lot of things, but he's not a jack
of all trades master at none. He excels in a
lot of different areas as a wing defender, as a score,
as a playmaker, very competitive, very durable, and they feel
that because of all those different qualities, it can allow
(16:13):
him to be very adaptable for a number of reasons. One,
in today's NBA, you got to be a versatile, you
got to be adaptable. Number Two, when you're looking at
the Mavericks and the fit, there's a lot of moving
pieces where he doesn't have the same kind of pressure
that other number one picks have of being the franchise savior,
being on a rebuilding team. On paper, the Mavericks should
(16:36):
be a playoff team with who they have, and so
that maybe shields a little bit of short term pressure
on Cooper to be the guy, be the man. But
at the same time, Kyrie Irving's not expected to be
back right away because of his ACL injury. There's always
questions about Anthony Davis and his injury history, and so
with that there's a comfort level that Cooper Fly could
(16:58):
relatively see and seemlessly pivot from option one, option two,
option three, depending on how that roster fluidity plays out
next season.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
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listen live.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
In a word, when I hear this, I don't know
Baron Davis, not forget who it was. Who several guys
have done it, who have looked for comps for Cooper
Flag and they say Andrea Kirilenko And to me in
a word, that's disrespectful as shit. I mean, Carolinko never
once was an All NBA player. He was a one
time All Star, an All Defensive Team a few times
(17:44):
if Cooper Flag was Andre Kirilinko that he would be
a bust. I mean, he wouldn't be Anthony Bennett level bust,
but I mean Carolinko average his best career game with
sixteen and a half points per game. I think Cooper
Flag could average out as a rookie coming off the
bench for the mass. What's your NBA comp? And I
know some people hate them and whatever, but I need
a name there.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Mark.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Say Max, I'm sorry for I disappoint I'm struggling to
come up with a comp only because Cooper Flag seems
just like a very unique player. And I've asked the
same thing as some other executives and they struggled coming
up with player comps. But one executive facifically told me,
maybe this has been surprising, but it affirms what you're
saying that any comp that comparison are Carolinko isn't the
(18:27):
right one because of the body of work they're one't
executives projecting the Cooper Flag is going to be a
multi year All Star player and an All NBA player
basically every single year, and Rookie of the Year favor
and so I think people might not have clarity. Okay,
how many championships is he gonna win? What's going to be?
(18:48):
But yeah, they exactly what your point and he's just
getting started. I think it's very telling, very comforted, and
that people around the league are already projecting, Yeah, we've
seen Cooper flag play. Hansulhiman to make the All Star
Game every single year, Hans Solhiman to make All NBA
every single year. Now does not clarity on does any
(19:09):
l NBA First team, second team, third team? But what
are on one of those three teams? That means you're
going to have a hell of a career and much
better than Andre Carolinko?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, what about Scotty Pitman? Is that too rich?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I could see the player cop simply through the lens
that Scottie Pimpott was very versatile, great defender, very adaptable.
As far as being the second option, we saw during
Michael Jordan's short retirement while playing baseball that he was
mostly good as a number one option.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
They won like fifty five games with I.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Think I think the difference is and we'll have to
see obviously how Cooper actually plays in the NBA, But
the early body of work at Duke and you know,
growing up, he seems to be very, very relentless, tough
as nails, plays through injuries, and you know, whether it's
(20:06):
fair or not, Scott he wasn't seen as that kind
of player.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, I remember the migrating on the on the bench
against the Pistons and young early in his career.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
No doubt, no doubt. But I think what we're getting
at is that maybe we're struggling finding player comps, but
we're not struggling to say that Cooper Flag is going
to be a generational talent. He's gonna have instant impact
and he's gonna have a hell of a resume. I
don't know where the ring count's gonna be, but Pennsilman
every single year that maybe exception a rookie year, he'll
(20:37):
make the All Star team and an All NBA team.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, it's tough with that. With the rings, I mean,
you know, he's going to start out with Kyrie and Ad.
Kyrie is going to miss much of the season, and like,
I don't know how what that roster is going to
look like in February of twenty six, probably dramatically different.
Maybe they make a splash move here in July, but Yeah,
I wouldn't be shocked if like Trey Johnson, kid from Texas,
(21:01):
goes to the Wizards, puts up nineteen the game and
wins Rookie of the Year. It's it's kind of hollow.
It'd be like Tyreek Evans beating Curry for Rookie of the Year.
What did it mean, Jack squat? You know, it just
didn't mean anything elsewhere in the draft. It's weird. There
was some stuff coming out about Ace Bailey, who is
like prodigiously talented. You look at him and you're like, oh,
that could I can. I can see a little Paul
(21:22):
George there, but he's like not wanting to work out
for teams because he feels like I'm a top three guy.
He's already talking about himself as a foundational piece on teams.
I I like Ash Bailey, bro could not get Rutgers
to the NCAA tournament, and he had another lottery pick
on his team in Harper the point guard. So I
(21:44):
don't what do you what are you hearing on Bailey?
Eighth Bailey who is really really talented?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, I think the one thing I'll enter Jeck Real
Cloick as far as like declining workouts. It's sparked for
me to read into that because the top prospects mostly
have done that and so that aside. Though, yeah, there
are question marks about Ace Bailey. I think that, you know,
there's a lot of optimism about his athleticism, his one
on one skills, but there's also a lack of clarity
(22:12):
how is that going to translate into the NBA how's
that going to translate within a team concept? So I
think very talented, He's going to be a hell of
a score. He's going to be a Cooper Flag. There's
not as much of a clarity on Okay, how does
he work within a team? How adaptable is he going
(22:34):
to be with his role? And you know, the clear
talent separation in this serious draft it's Cooper Flag and
everyone else. If I think the other distinguishable quality that
carries through not just with Dailey but everyone else is
there's not really clarity okay, how is he going to
be fitting on a specific team. There is the old
edge in the NBA draft. You still draft on talent
(22:57):
because that usually takes care of things and you can
refine player development depending on which team it is. But
it obviously is important how our young prospects fits in
the team and how they can impact winning basketball. And
there's just not a lot of clary for better or
for worse on that question about as Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I think back to let me just so it was
a twenty twenty draft and that was the one where
Ant went first, and then the.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Games wise when it went second.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That's so James Wiseman to the Warriors, in which you know,
really could have gotten Curry multiple more title. They'll say,
I know he's still one another. But what's interesting was
LaMelo Ball went three, and everybody's like, oh, can you
imagine Labello Ball with Curry and the Warriors? And I
was like, actually, I can't because of the way LaMelo
Ball plays, and I don't want to compare him to Bailey,
(23:47):
but like they're like empty calorie guys. I'm gonna get mine.
I don't know that a Lamello Ball or Ace Bailey
could pull a Kevin Love who had a bunch of
empty stats in Minnesota they never got anywhere, but he
was like twenty five and twelve and then he was
willing to take a back seat in Cleveland with Lebron
and Kyrie. Like I don't know that Ace Bailey or
(24:07):
LaMelo Ball, I don't know that they're built to take
a back seat. Is that Does that sound fair or not? Really?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, I think it does sound fair. And I think
when we're going back to that twenty twenty draft with
the Warriors of picking Wiseman, obviously a lot of things
come out later on that you wish she knew, But
at the time their thinking was, well, they had no
shotgatting you or because he's going to Minnesota. They did
have concerns about LaMelo with his durability and just the
(24:36):
fact that, yeah, they already have Steph Curry. Maybe in
the short term it could relieve some pressure off of
Klay Thompson a little bit. But keep in mind that
at the draft they didn't know that Clay Thompson was
going to be hurt again. That's literally on Draft night,
that's when he then injured his achilles, So that softened
(25:00):
the equation. But I think the other thing, even though
clearly that James Wiseman picked in panned out, uh, they're
trying to find ways to relieve playing time and pressure
off of Draymond because he often played at center, but
they don't want him to have to do everything, and
they wanted to have that lob threat. And historically during
the Warriors dynasty they had good role players, but certainly
not great centers when you're thinking of JaVale McGee and
(25:24):
Zaza Pachulia, David West. So they're still trying to retain that.
And they also thought, you know what, this could put
less pressure for James to have to develop, and this
can be or you know, this could give some time
for him to develop organically. But what's wild Jason's I
remember when he was drafted at number two. To be clear,
the Warriors weren't putting this out, but there was talk about, oh,
(25:46):
he could be the next David Robinson.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
And that could have been further mar the COVID draft
total disaster. It was the same thing in the NFL.
But these are just some of the guys who went
top ten. Wiseman, Patrick William's total for the Bulls, Isaac Okoro,
I mean he's not that guy. A kung Wu, I
like Killy and Hayes at seven needs no introduction. Obi
Toppins been good, but Denny Avdia nine, Jalen Smith ten.
(26:12):
I don't even know if Jalen Smith's in the league.
Vassal eleven and then Halliburton went twelve. Kind of fell
into Sacramento's lap. But like it was just that was
a weird draft, the COVID draft, and I don't know,
it feels like the ramifications have been felt like the
Hornets have. I don't think they have a playoff appearance.
The Bulls certainly don't haven't done anything. It's just been tough.
Now that leads us into this offseason mark, and let's
(26:37):
start with Giannis. Win Horse keeps saying Giannis is not
gonna ask for trade. Does that mean Giannis is not
gonna get traded?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That's a good question. It's very tough because the box
and Giannis had been very adamant that nothing's gonna happen.
The East landscape is wide open. Says he's happy to
be there, you know, reasonably enough to want to stay.
But I just I don't see how this makes sense
(27:08):
here because the ray on the wall is clear. I've
lost in the first round for three consecutive years. There's
gonna be questions about Damian Lillard and his health next season,
and that's not going to work out. And so I
think that he is going to get traded. I just
don't know who blinks first. Now, in fairness, what they're
(27:29):
saying is true. Giannest is saying he doesn't want to leave,
the Bucks don't want to trade them, and I don't
think the Bucks will trade them unless it's very clear,
you know what, we feel that Jannis doesn't want to
be here. But I think it's a matter of when
and not if it's going to happen. And to be clear,
(27:49):
that's not what the signals are saying right now. The
Bucks are saying that complete opposite. So when I'm saying that,
I'm just sharing my observations as someone that follows the
NBA closely that it would make more sense that eventually
both parties come to the reality that they're better off
having an acrimonious departure saying thank you, but we're better
(28:12):
off Giannis trying to go on a better team and
the Bucks trying to get not equal value, because you
don't get equal value in these kind of trades, but
enough for them to reload both short and long term.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
The other problem with this Mark is this whole dumb
idea we're not going to trade him. Maybe it's the
deadline and things are going you're gonna get less, trade
him now and get as much a massive a haul
as you can. I know Bucks fans are gonna be ticked.
But like, again this is not apples to apples, but
we're minority owners in a soccer team in the top
league in Mexico, and everybody wants our top guy who
had an amazing season, and it's like, oh well, maybe
(28:49):
we'll hold on to them and all these guys, and
you just gotta I know the fans want certain things
and they want to keep you honest, but like, there's
no path to victory with him none. If you look
at that roster, one of the old just in the league,
Lillard with the achilles, I would guess he's out until
maybe April, right.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
It maybe even the whole season.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Right, So if you remove him, who's your number two?
Kyle Kuzma. I don't even think they're Britagan Lopez back,
So you gotta find a center. They're gonna be paying
a massive tax bill, Like none of this, there's zero
path to success for them. My guess is that they're
working with Giannis closely behind the scenes to get a
deal done. Similarly to how Desmond Baine got a quiet deal.
(29:29):
Now I'm not saying he worked with Memphis, but quietly,
no reports, and then it happens. Now let's move to
Kevin Durant, which basically has like a BS storyline every day.
I don't know what's your relationship with Rich Clement. I've
been blasting him on this podcast trying to it's very
obvious what he's been doing. I'm curious just to your
thoughts on what the what's going on with Kevin Durant.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, well, I think you know the song to understand away,
so want to get a pretty hefty return because when healthy,
Kevin Durant still an All NBA player, but there's a
lot of complications. So we see what his injury history
has been. Understandably so where he's at a state of
his career. Things are never the same after your injury
or achilles even six years later. But also the amount
(30:15):
that's needed to get a player of Kevin Durant's stature.
But I think, again this is my own analysis here.
When you're looking at teams like San Antonio Houston, of
course they are interested in Kevin Durant, but when it
comes to the nitty gritty of okay, are you willing
to give up any portion of your young assets? As
(30:36):
well as uncertainty on how many games Kevin Durant will
be available for you. I think both teams will say thanks,
but no thanks. And that's why I think it's Kevin
Durant with Miami.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So who's money given up for?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Well? So I love me walk you through this because historically,
when we were looking at the heat and the Damian
Loward trade is the most notable example, have also drawn
lines in the sand here, but they're also in a
different position. They're coming off first round exit to Cleveland,
So I think, you know, initially it'll be about okay,
you're not probably not getting a lot. You're getting a
(31:13):
lot of calls, but not a lot of actual serious offers.
This might be the best offer you can get of
Andrew Wiggins. I may Hawk as junior Duncan Robinson some
draft picks. The sons will probably say, you know what,
that's not good enough, and I think eventually that he
will say, you know what, we're going to include Tyler
Hero in this discussion. That's something that they've never wanted
(31:35):
to do before.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
You're talking about Hero, Wiggins and II May Hawk is.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
What I'm saying is, I think the initial offer will
include the player without Hero, and then and then the
calendar will be, Okay, we're gonna include Hero and then
figure out who they else they include to make the
numbers work, and also so they still have a semblance
of a roster. So I don't think it's going to
be all those players. But I think the first offer
(32:17):
will be Wiggins, Akaz Junior, Robinson a pick, and then
the Sons, this is Kevin Durant. They'll include Hero and
then they'll figure out who else they keep in that
Here's why I think Miami. Here's why I think Miami
will be willing to budget a little bit, just because
(32:37):
of where they're at. First round exit to Cleveland, the
sweep that Jimmy Butler saga didn't go well. You know,
historically under pat Riley, the Heat have never been about rebuilds.
It's about reloading. But I think that you can make
a case they're not going to be championship favorites, but
they could be a playoff team because you have Kevin Durant,
(32:58):
but ye have bam oudabay.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Hold On Mark. Okay, So basically, like you said, Bounce
in the first round, they got smashed badly by Cleveland.
If you remove two starters Wiggins and Hero, you now
basically have bam Adebayo and Kevin Durant and I don't
know davey On Mitchell and whoever else. You're not top
four in the East, right You're certainly not better than Nicks,
(33:24):
the Pacers, the Calves and who am I missing? Nick? Pacers?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Cats?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Is one other team that well we'll just leave it
at those three. You're not that great with kad Baham
and daviy On Mitchell. Are you getting out of the
first round? And that's my question, like because you.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Got a swan though.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Okay, but don't you have to sign Kate d to
a two year, one hundred million dollars deal. Yeah, Oh
my gosh, that's insane. Do you to get what Bounce
in the first round?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Well what happened this past season?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, but then they get Rogier's coming off the books.
He's inexpiring. Nan Robinson's like I would sooner, and that's
why I've been like, I don't even think there's really
a market for Kate. I know people love him, but
I'm not taking on bad salary for a guy who's
remember Kevin Durant two years at one hundred, you're going
to be paying him when he's thirty nine years old.
(34:16):
You're going to be paying him like fifty million dollars. Yeah,
is that not insane? He's not Lebron. I'm sorry, he's
just not holding out.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I think it's really the heat circumstances where they're at
that something is better than nothing. And Kevin, he's a
great practice player. When he's on the court, he's still
remarkably efficient. The problems that you outlined is that he
has injuries, and no one's deployed that against him. It's
just where he's at in his career and what's happened
since twenty nineteen, and also the cost to get him.
(34:47):
So I'm with you that there's going to be a
lot of calls about him, but there's also going to
be a lot of hang ups. And it's not because
no one wants Kevin Durant. It's just the cost to
get him just severely undermines teams roster depth, et cetera.
But I think in Miami's case, they're in a different position.
And also because of the market that you outline, I
(35:07):
think Phoenix is also going to be in a different position.
So I think it's going to be this partnership woroded
inconvenience and necessity for both sides.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Here we could wrap up, like I don't want to
be too reactionary to what could be an outlier finals,
but what we have seen in these playoffs, Mark is
it's very clearly becoming to succeed in the postseason right now,
you need youth and depth. Right these are two young teams.
I think Alex Caruso's like the oldest guy in the series,
(35:39):
or TJ McConnell something like that, but basically a rotational
player at least. And you look at that the way
these teams are picking up full court to wear guys down.
You saw the Knicks kind of wear down against full
court pressure from the Pacers' I'm of the belief that
Kevin Durant is like the opposite of what you want
right now to succeed, you want youth and depth. Why
would you add an old, expensive guy that hinders your
(36:02):
youth and depth. Not that Miami has any much of it,
that's great, but it just it feels like kad, like
the pendulum has swung far enough that boom second apron
all this stuff. I'm out on the older guys.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, no, I mean what you said is all true.
I think it's really relative to where Miami is at
their depth and the some of all parts weren't really
that enough to absorb Jimmy Butler's absence last year, and
so I think that they're of the mind let's just
still be competitive. Let's still be a playoff caliber team,
maybe not a championship caliber team, but a team that
(36:37):
still can get in the first round either, even if
it's a plan, still has a chance to be a
competitive out in the first round, maybe sneaks into the second.
But I think you outlined it perfectly here that to
compete for a championship you have to have all those things.
It's just very hard to have all those things because
it takes time. You need to not only draft right,
(36:59):
but have the time to collect all those picks and
use it on good players. And so with a thunder,
they've gotten to this point, and it took a while
basically ever since theot Paul George, which was what.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Nineteen So yeah, so within six years they went from hey,
let's bought them out stockpile picks, and boom, they're in
the finals and they're set up for success.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
And here here is the irony of the landscape. Here.
It takes time for teams to draft develop players, but
teams other teams aren't patient to make moves. But also
the way the CBA is, you don't have a lot
of wiggle room to retain your young talent once they're
(37:44):
out eligible for extensions. And so in today's MBA, with
not having a repeat champion, you know the NBA will
be like, okay, well that's that's in short parody, but
it hasn't ensured sustained parody. And so the thunder they
don't have to make those decisions because Shanlee and Williams
shut Homer and they're not eligible for extensions I think
(38:06):
till two years from now. But that's really what's the
challenging part. And whether you like the Dynasty era or
you like the parody, the challenging part is there's not
that avenue for sustained parody because of the second apron concern.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, I will add the counter to, hey, Jason, not
everybody old, Like, if Steph Curry doesn't go down, You've
got Curry, Draymond and Jimmy Butler, three old guys who
were able to squeak by young Houston. And I don't
know that Minnesota beats them if they if Curry's healthy.
I mean, maybe there's a world where you know those three,
(38:45):
But I just don't see a team where KD can
play the Jimmy Butler role to a Curry, Like, where
is there another Curry or even a player of that caliber.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yeah, it's a fair question. I think. You know, again,
it goes back to relative perspective here that I think
Miami can make the case, Well, they had better coaching
than Phoenix. They didn't. They don't have the most roster
depth out of anyone in the league, but they have
better pieces that will put less pressure on Katie and
allow him to flourish much better than what we saw
(39:19):
during his time in Phoenix. So again, it's all relative.
These aren't This isn't going to be a seismic shift
as far as oh when Katie went to the Warriors.
Now they're the championship favorites, but it enables I think
Miami to still have that identity of they're a tough
playoff team that you don't want to face.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And listen, you know, Tyler hero and Devin Booker, they're
not They're probably struggling to stop me and you defensively.
If that happens for the Phoenix Suns, I mean that's
you know, Tyler hero k It doesn't guard anyone or
even pretend to, and he needs shots. Now, he would
be a good fit in Phoenix because he likes, you know,
the ig models, and we know Devin Booker is a
ladies man, so maybe that works out for hero Just kidding,
(40:00):
all right, Mark Medina great stuff has always enjoyed the
rest of the finals, the draft. Oh, it's a summer
of basketball ahead, man, Thanks again.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yes, sir, appreciate you. Looking forward to that and Vegas
in Summer League.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yes, I forgot Cooper flag in Summer League.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yes day, It's going to be monumental, historic,
Host
Jason McIntyre
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com