"Happy Hour" w/ Lauren Michele Jackson

"Happy" hour? Says who, the government!? This week, we're joined by public intellectual Lauren Michele Jackson to explore the manufactured consent around one of America's most notorious hours. Is it a worker's rights win or a baby bottle to keep us complacent? Hard to tell, tbh, but we'd love another Aperol Spritz STAT! Plus, is podcasting a race to the bottom? Are the humanities valid? Is tea grad-school coded? Listen to find out!

Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/straightiolab for bonus episodes twice a month and don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts! 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Okay, podcast starts now. Wow, it is a beautiful day
in the world and we are spending it podcasting.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Sure, cif as always, you guys.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
As always, and TG I T if you're listening to
this on Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
And TG I T. Thank god it's tits.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
You know. I brought up some things before we started
recording that I want to dress up top. Oh what,
First of all, I'm wearing a hat today, right.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Is it a main hat? Yeah, Maine the state, and
it has a sort of puffin on it.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Correct. Oh, yeah, it's a main hat with a puffin
on it. You know, I think I have a new
theory about you know, of course, this is a podcast
about podcasting, and I actually want to run this by you, okay,
And I think I've talked about this a little bit.
I think podcasting as a medium is in a race

(01:16):
to the bottom, like the bottom, but the bottom being like,
how can you be more and more casual? Totally, I
actually feel I'm seeing so many podcast clips where people
are splayed out on a chair wearing sweatpants, like sort
of pretending to be so so so chill, and I'm
sort of like, you know, then you look at our

(01:36):
clips where we're you know, sitting upright. Our posture has
never been better. We're speaking black tie, black tie affair,
and I think people see that and almost are like, oh, well,
they're not the podcasting I like, because podcasting I like
is laid back and chill. So I think with this hat,
I'm trying to say I'm laid back and chill.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh interesting, But so you're trying to be like everyone
else hmm, I'm trying to respond to my demands. Well,
but you sort of have to stand out.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Well, I guess I want to know what you think
about the original theory. Do you think podcasts are trying
to be casual?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, yeah, but I I mean, yes, they are, but
in a way that to me always reads phony. And
I actually have realized this even when watching us, where
I'm like, wait, but we are authentic. I know, because
I'm in my own body and I'm being the most
real a person can be. But then when I see
a clip of myself, I'm like, why is he pretending
to be George?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Interesting?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
There's a certain artifice that's inherent to the form and
like and I actually think there's almost an uncanny valley
quality where you are not having an actual, real life conversation,
but also not in a feature film directed by let's say,
jud Appatow. So you are in you are sort of
like in this in between spot where you are like,

(02:56):
I mean, it almost feels like reality TV or something
you know, or or not even reality TV, but almost
like a Real Housewives reunion.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah. No, I think this is actually kind of genius
in the media landscape. Podcasting is purgatory, yes.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
And you know what else secual. I'm going to take
it a step further and say social media performance also is purgatory.
Like we are all every day waking up and being
you know, you know, as Naomi Klein would say in
her book Doppelganger, we are being doppelgangers of ourselves that
we ourselves created to respond to and cater to market forces.

(03:35):
And so basically, you know, where is you know, when
Jennifer Lopez said I'm real, that was the last time
anyone ever said that with meaning and meant it.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
What I'm saying, huh, you know, I actually think you're right,
and you're speaking to how deeply, deeply authentic and ourselves
that we cannot help but be absolutely And that is
why I think potentially social media is not We're not
good at it. I think of of the people that we,
you know, interact with, we are some of the worst

(04:04):
social media users we know.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
I would say to the point where I think, I think,
how bad I am at Instagram is like it's like,
against all odds, I can do a live show and
people will buy tickets, Like, behold the least charismatic online
presence anyone can ever have, and yet he's going to

(04:26):
Los Angeles and people are purchasing tickets to his show
at the Allegian Theater.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, it really does feel like like a protest to
be the honest, right, And sometimes I'm like, wow, like
it's i mean, talk about being real.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
I'm like, if you were to look me up, you'd
be like, get this, get that fag off the TV.
I'm not watching that, in the words of Tyra Banks.
But then nevertheless, people have to come and see and
when they see me on that stage and I'm doing
one of three moves that I do with my hands,
and I'm occasionally smiling in a sort of, you know,

(05:05):
not extremely charming way, but it's I'm sure of going
through the motions of that smarmy Yeah, smarmy. You know,
it's just it really is. It's a testament to buy
raw talent as a performer, is all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, No, I think that's really amazing. Sometimes when I
open up Instagram, I'm like like I have this feeling
of like, okay, it's time to break my silence, like
and it's like.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Totally not about anything in particular. And he has ever
gotten into a flow because that's the thing. Someone told
me this once. It's like, it's not about I mean,
this is the most obvious point ever, but it's basically
not about quality. It is quite literally just like keep
doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it, and that's
how you develop the following. And I have never gotten
over that first hump.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
No, No, I can't keep doing it because it's like
at some point, you know, you're literally seeing yourself and
you're like why am I doing this? And you're like
I hate when other people this, Why am I doing this?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
But how do you bang your head against the wall
enough time so that that part of your brain sort of,
uh temporarily at least atrophies and then you can really
lean into making content.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah you know.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Also it's sort of like I actually think you seem
more fake if you have that level of insecurity about it.
And when you get over the hump. It's like there's
a line in Breakfast a Tiffany's where he's like, she's
a phony, but she's a real phony. Like you have
to get to the point where we're just phony when
we are post I posted a photo of myself being like, oh,

(06:38):
come to my chorw Okay, who do I think I am?
But if I but let's say, but let's say I
post a photo of me I'm wearing a bikini on
a beach or something, and I'm like, if you like
my fat ass, then come to my show, then you
know that I'm a real phony.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah. No, I know what you're saying. I think there's
something to that, a real phony versus a fake phony. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
And then also, I mean there's a famous quote in
Daria Too where she's like, you're so shallow that it's
that you approach depth. Yeah something, I'm sort of butchering
the line, but I'm like, how do I get there?
Because let me tell you something, We're far from the
shallow now. In the words of Lady.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Kagatt, Yeah, I genuinely don't know how to get there,
and I don't necessarily want to find out again, have
you heard my new theory? Oh no, okay, where I'm
sort of just like waiting it out, Like I'm sort
of like.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Like, totally are you waiting out Instagram not being relevant anymore?

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, you know that is totally fair. And by the way,
that was my approach for fully seven years. And now
I'm at the point where I'm like, Okay, well, I
guess it's here to stay, and like I better, I
guess do something about it.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah. I do find myself wanting an outlet. I do
find myself wanting to express myself. I just don't feel
like Instagram is the place to do it.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
And I don't I was talking into a microphone for
an hour and a half a week is not enough.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
That's true. Actually, I do want to say this is
the place to do it. And in fact, I do
enjoy this medium as far as a way to express
myself without overthinking it.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
I one percent enjoy it. I think it is an
art form. And you know, I'm so grateful to be
in the same industry as Dak Shepherd.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, nothing but respect to the whole Dax
and Kristen Bell family. Yeah, I guess do we want
to bring our guest? Oh?

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Totally, yeah, we absolutely should. You know what I love
about our podcast is I would say this is actually
like this is a special episode because I feel like
once every six months we have someone on, like a
professionally smart person on. Don't you think that we have
this cadence where it's like comedian comeding comedian. Occasionally it'll
be like someone that's even worse than a comedian even

(08:55):
and then once every six months it'll be like, Okay,
let's reset by having someone on that can sort of
like be intellectual and then we can go back to
being dumb.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah. No, I think it's a beautiful cadence.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
And I do feel like it's been a while. I
think it's been a while. I mean, so without further
AWO you know this guest, I mean we're talking. She
is a literal professor. She writes for The New Yorker,
she's a culture critic, she's written books. I mean, I
don't even I'm gonna I'm gonna turn off my mic
as soon as I introduce her and not speak again,

(09:28):
because we are not worthy for our guest today Laura
Michelle Jackson.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Hello, Lauren, Hello, thank you for that introduction. What's so
funny is that as a podcast recipient, as a listener,
if you will, I love the dumb I like, am
the person that like will scroll through like the episodes
and when I see, like, you know, any podcast and

(09:52):
I see like smart person, smart person, smart person comedian
m hmm, I'm like, then we might be onto something.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yet the grass is always greener, you know, grass is
always greener. I mean to me, I'm like, my favorite
is a smart person being dumb, Like it's like having
when we had like Andrew long chew on and her
topic was the Marvel Cinematic universe. That's my sweet spot
right there. Yes, And you know what the worst thing
is dumb person trying to be smart.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Well, and that's most of podcasting exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
I would say that is where we came in and
really messed really sort of experimented with the form. As
we said, most podcasting is dumb people trying to be smart.
We're gonna have smart people on and ask them about
why freeways are straighter than highways.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Lauren, I, I did you know when I saw that
you were a professor. I got scared when I saw
that you were a literal professor. I said, oh, office hours.
I was traumatized a bit. I said, uh, oh, you know,
I haven't you know, a professor to me is such
a heightened position in the world, and it scared me.

(11:01):
To be honest, how does that make you feel?

Speaker 3 (11:03):
I mean, I think it's hard, because, like I think
I maybe have what is possibly the most humorless job
there there.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
Could ever possibly be sure, not only you know, not
only being.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
A professor, but to be a professor of English literature,
like I think, I don't know, I feel like the
sciences get to be a little wacky and do the
kind of like fun thing at the front of the
classroom where they're you know, both like out of touch
but also just sort of have a lovable I don't know.
I had a calculus professor back in the day who

(11:37):
reminded me of he looks exactly like Santa Claus.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Basically.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
I mean, this guy probably has like, I don't know,
a nobell or something like that.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
But I was like, oh, he's so fun.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
I don't know what he's saying, but you know, he
looks like Santa Whereas like I don't know. Literature is
just so you know, literally like let's turn to page fifty.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
But to me, literature is so like you stand backwards
on a chair and being like Shakespeare is actually like,
you know, rock and roll.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
That is what I've always wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, I think, okay, wait, I think you're saying something
really smart. I think the fact that like science, the
sciences and the maths they get to sort of like
rest on their laurels because people inherently respect science and math,
they don't have to prove that they are serious people,
and in fact gets to like it's there's almost like okay,

(12:29):
I'm trying to make it this podcast, there's a misogyny
towards the arts, and like the sciences are like men
and they can like fuck around because it's like, well,
we trust them, but women have to be like proving
that they're smart all the time. And that's the English
professor also show they have value.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
But you and you also can't win because okay, the
humanities are undervalued. So what is the solution to that
is to make them seem even more serious than they are,
But then that makes them seem even more boring and
even less sort of interesting than they are. So then
you're like, okay, fine, then I'll try to make them fun.
And then people publish like academic papers on Taylor Swift.
But then people, but then people that already are primed

(13:10):
to not care about the communities, are like, oh, look
what those idiots are doing. They're publishing papers about Taylor Swift.
And you're like, well, yeah, that's because actually zero people
are declaring English this year because we keep writing about
you know, John Updike or whatever, and so that's why
we had to do Taylor Swift. So it's a you
can't win.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Literally, you literally can't win.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
And I think like I am in the insisting upon
seriousness like stage of things. I think in part because
I'm younger comparatively. I would say, so, you know, everyone's
already coming to my class with whimsy, which is like great,
and you know, of course I want to foster that,

(13:49):
but my job is it feels like it's to be like,
you know, everyone's opinion matters. But there are also I
like to say that there are actually write answers in
the English yeah classroom, where like I think we've gotten
a little too like, oh, it's up to your interpretation
and however you feel, and so I have to like

(14:10):
bring down the hammer of like no, there actually are
kind of like established, you know, empirical things that are
going on that we maybe should talk about.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
I actually love that. I was an English major in
college and I was like really making some big swings
because I was sort of just like whatever, like just
like read it and vibe and like what does it
make you feel? And truly like I was hand in
essays that made no sense, and my professors start to
be like, this doesn't this is incorrect, and I was like,

(14:45):
you know what, I did need to hear that, like,
and it just really felt like I was being like
I was almost like performing the idea of reading something intellectually,
and I needed to be told that like, no, it's
not fake, Like you can't just read into whatever you feel.
You have to find something true.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
But then to like to like George's point, you know,
if you actually do read a lot of English literature scholarship,
I mean there's like a whole body of thought called
like aphic theory and like no disrespect because I also
identify with that like intellectual tradition.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
A lot of it is very like touchy feeling.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
I mean such literally has like touching feeling is like
a book, so like you know, it's it's kind of
funny when you do get to the to the like
the scholarly point of it, it's like, yeah, actually sometimes
it is.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
I mean, people do research on vibes.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's like, yeah, well, okay, So afic theory was really
popular when I was in grad school, and I remember
being like, oh, so like anything goes and so then
I would try to be like to just say something
completely out of my ass. But then when I did it,
it was wrong because you actually have to build on
the existing the existing theory is that people literally did
make up and if they didn't make them up, then sorry,

(16:00):
they're just based on Freud. So it's like the two
options are make something up or based it on Freud.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Yeah, it's like you do actually have to well, it's
like you do actually actually have to read.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Right, yeah right, and that's a good stuff, that is
really good stuff anyway, And then I can't even get
into it.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
No, but yeah, I think the last thing I'll say
is just like I do want to be like the
fun I would like to be the fun professor, but
like the like the turn the chair around and just like, yeah,
I like try to bring that like we're just talking
about books, you know, take a chance, anything can happen.
And then I also have to, you know, do the well,

(16:51):
that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
What makes you? What makes you think that? Is there
a place in the book you can go that can maybe.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Help us understand this idea?

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:04):
You know what I miss most about college is being
in a discussion group and like having the ta be like, okay,
so what did we think about this part? And everyone's
just sitting there silently, and then being like okay, so
did anyone think anything? And everyone's completely silent and they

(17:24):
just knowing, like that that tenseness where you're like, no
one has read this clearly, like we ought to say
you for the next forty five minutes, what is going
to happen? That that danger, that daringness is I don't
have that in my life anymore.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
And sometimes you want to be like okay, I'll step up,
I'll say something, and then you say like one sentence
and then people start to question you and you're like,
I'm sorry, I took one for the team, like I'm
not going to be interrogated when I am literally doing
charity by speaking up right now, so that we're not
all just like staring at our twitdling our thumbs.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
It's like, yeah, to push back on that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's like, shut up. You should have spoken
up first if you wanted to push back on it,
because I took I was the one brave enough to
speak up.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Oh my god. I mean the way that pushing back
is the easiest thing you can do in glass because
you don't even have to have an opinion. You just
have to push back on an opinion totally.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
And this is actually, I would say, this is something
I have personally tried to escape as a like, I've
tried to escape that impulse where it's so much easier
to be the critic than to be the one who
actually puts forth an original idea. And I'm almost even
nervous saying that, because that's almost like undermining the role

(18:37):
of the critic, which is not what I'm trying to do.
But you do sort of get to a point where
you're like, Okay, what is my end goal by actually
criticizing everything?

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah? I remember being real crank, like when I first
moved to New York, especially like I was in like
music circles and we were really like judgmental of every
other band and it was like so mean. And then
I was like wait, why, Like at some point you
have to you can't do this, like you have to
make friends with them and stop being critical.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Because and then also and then and then it makes
it even more enjoyable where you really find something you
hate and you're like, oh, now I can really let
loose after a full month of being mostly positive.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
Right, you can't.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
You can't like be a person that like in the
media space, you cannot write pans all the time because
then they don't like mean anything, right though. I do
think the funniest thing is that like people who become
either professors or like professional critics like do tend to
be the people that were like that guy or that

(19:43):
gal like in the classroom, like I was very much
like I tell my students this, I was like I
was not I was not a great student. I wouldn't
do the reading all the time, but you can bet
that I would have something to say.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
About the reading that I didn't do. I was the
pushing back. I was always pushing back.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Well yeah, yeah, well you want to make a splash.
No one's going to award you for being for doing
the reading, like you have to come in with a
really cool opinion.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Speaking of cool opinions, there's something we wanted to address.
Oh yeah, Lauren, which is that you are wearing a
Nickelback T shirt.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
I am wearing a knuckleback T shirt.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
And George did an interesting thing where he sort of
took almost credit for it, saying, you're doing this for us.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, I said, it's obviously to celebrate straight culture. I mean,
if anything, I would say it's almost two on the
nose and a celebration of straight culture. I mean the
criticism of Nicle talk about people being critics, the criticism
of Nickelback to me is very like twenty fifteen, and
so I was like, oh, interesting, But then you said that,
in fact, you're not wearing it as a tribute to

(20:49):
the topic of our podcast. You just happened to see
them live this summer.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I mean, I would be happy for it to rectroactively
have been a thing that I put on specifically for
the post, and not because it is in fact an
incredibly comfortable T shirt, surprisingly for for merch.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
But yes, I saw them this summer they were very.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Nickelback, which, if you like Knickelback is a good thing,
and it was oh man, what a time. Yeah, I
think we've like fully crossed over from the like hating
Nickelback mom, I mean speaking of like reflexive criticality.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Totally completely, so we're like back to something with it.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah. And also like, of course I understand, I'm not
going to be like Nickelback is actually like a radically
amazing band. I'm not, you know, they're fine, But the
idea that they were the worst thing ever always seemed
so random to me, like they are just simply much
worse bands.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
It also just didn't make sense to me because their
songs were so popular. I was like, yeah, I was like, well,
someone's listening to the music.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
This is something I think about a lot where I'm like,
somebody's lying, like these things can't be so popular and
then we all hate them. Also, I felt that way
about Dane Cook. I felt that way sometimes. I feel
that way about like foot fetishes, Like everyone's like making
fun of people with foot and I'm like, but there's
so many websites dedicated defeat somebody's lying.

Speaker 5 (22:16):
It's it's mean and.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Just like that is the for me, is like the
latest of that. I was like, how can this be
the worst show that everyone agrees as the worst show
that everyone I mean, I guess it's like a hate watch,
but even that is I.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Do think as someone who does watch, and just like that,
I mean it is sort of like it is not good.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, I mean that is more of a hate watch
for me, but it's also it's also just like I
still can't break the nostalgia of Sex and the City,
Like I just love it so much that it's like
to know that they are still alive in the TV
and I'm not up to date on what they're up to.
It hurts me.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
It's actually distress. It would be disrespectful for me to
not watch, and just like that, it would be disrespectful
to like where I came from, and it would be
disrespectful frankly to the United States of America.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, it's like, okay, so what am I also not
going to go home for Christmas? Like you have to
you have to see your parents.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
Like okay, I do, Okay, I feel that, but yeah,
I mean, I'm just I love Sex and City so.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Much, I like, but you don't watch them just like that.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
I fell off, like I got I think I actually
like got bored, and I was like, that's like the
real that's like the actual like disinterest is just like
I I'm like, I actually could not I could not
keep up. But but yeah, I mean love Sex and
City I taught. Speaking of trying to be fun, I
taught an episode of Sex and City this this quarter

(23:47):
and and and wow anyway, which episode the carrier dates
of Bye Guy? Oh classic, just like amazing, amazing brunch
table conversation of course, Samantha.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
You know, well I'm a trisexual. You know.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
It's just like he'll try anything. It's just like it's
so it was as picture perfect.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Do you feel like the sort of like twenty twenty
twenty tens move towards studying pop culture was ultimately detrimental
for society because then everyone felt like they were a professor.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
I mean, in my like grumpiest times, I'm like, yes,
if only because no, I'm not gonna go off, but like,
like you know, we they're like things like happen in
in like legal things will happen in the news, and
like the first thing like legal like lawyers will like

(24:46):
come on to Twitter and be like very grumpy and like,
actually everyone's talking about copyright law and nobody knows anything
about you know, will actually like blah blah blah blah.
And I kind of feel a little bit like, you know,
I'm not telling medical people how to do their medicine.
I'm not telling insert other profession that I can't think about.

(25:08):
But you know, every profession has some sort of expertise.
Right in my like grumpious moments, I'm like, well, you know,
being able to look at a film and talk about
it competently.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Is actually a skill. Yeah, that like some people possess.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
But then even that is just like also kind of
like a really boring complaint because it's like, you know,
I don't know that's that seems unequal in some way
or like at a prejudice.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, it's almost the definition of elitism.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Oh yeah, yeah, perhaps they have.

Speaker 5 (25:48):
A word for that.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
No, but okay, but you're also pointing to again the
double bind of the humanity is where you just can't
you literally can't win either way, Like you can't win
by being, you know, sort of taking on the elitist
position because then you're elitist and you also can't win
by being like, well everybody can do this, because then
it's like, right, then why do they pay you to
do it?

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, to be fair, I am as critical of you know,
English professors as I am of doctors.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
And that's true egalitarianism.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
You know, there's doctors they really think they can just
tell you anything.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Oh yeah, Sam hates doctors.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
This is my new thing.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
I love. This is a new thing.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, well Sam had. Sam was in the hospital recently
and he really got to know doctors up close and personal.
It's sort of like you know when I was in
grad school for two years and then came out being
like academics need help. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I've seen doctors up close in action, and I'm
sort of like, uh huh. So you guys are also
sort of riffing.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Yeah, so we agree that they like don't do anything right.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
No, they're horrible.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
There's maybe like one expert. It's like with doctors, it's
like there's one expert in Switzerland who like you want
to see because he's the one or she is the
one good doctor. But then everyone else is sort of
like it's giving adjunct.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
They also just like actively I think they have like
a disdain for their patients in a way where they're like,
if you're like I'm feeling this, they're instantly like, honey,
you don't know what you're feeling, and it's like, no,
I actually do. Like, unfortunately, this is a listening exercise
and you have to, you know, take an improv class, sweetie,
because it's time of Yes, I am my feelings.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
I think they're just a little bit too laid back
for me to be so.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Hair doctors as a whole, doctors.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Doctors as a whole, I'll say, I mean, yeah, I
think everyone has their like, uh confrontation with the medical
industrial complex, as it were. For me, it happened in
college when I had MONO and I came in and
I I was so sure, speaking of like doubting personal testimony,
I was so sure at mono.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Of course I had done the web MD thing. My
lymph nodes.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Were just like my neck was like twice the size
of it, and I was like, I feel weak.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
I'm pretty sure I have MONO.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
I'm also, you know, I'm in a PhD program, like
I you know, I'm not like going to be hysterical
about this. And the doctor was like, yeah, I mean maybe,
but you know. And I was like, I'm running a
marathon in two weeks, Like, I you know, I need
to know because I heard it's dangerous to try to exercise.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
He's like, I don't know. Maybe you have it, maybe
you don't. Worst case, maybe you do.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
It was just like, yeah, worst case you do, case
you don't.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
I was like, okay, cool, I feel like I could
have also made that sort of deduction.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, that was like, then test me, like, you know, the.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Hardest thing to come by in our culture answers. No
one has them. No one has no matter how many
degrees you have.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
I think that actually could be an incredible segue into
a first segment, which is all about providing answers.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
I provide answers and being rated for it.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Okay, Lauren, our first segment is called straight Shooters, and
in this segment, we will ask you a series of
rapidfire questions to gauge your familiarity with and complicity and
straight culture. It's basically this thing or this other thing,
and the only rule is you can ask any follow
up questions or we will get so pissed at you

(29:27):
that you're gonna be like.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
We're going to leave you bad reviews on rate my
professors dot com.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, no student will ever take your class again. You'll
be forced to do a Taylor Swift class.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Well, I've happened to know I from following on social media.
You are kind of a swifty I am.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
I am a bit of a swift, ye, though, I
do have to say I feel like I had like
a tweet the other day that I thought was pretty good. Sorry,
that's like obnoxious to say, but I think that like
the swifty Overton window has shifted so much that like
even my degree of fandom no longer qualifies as a.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Swifty totally, because I have a totally.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
You know, semi unhealthy sort of attachment to her music
and her stardom versus whatever it's become now.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, versus being institutionalized in the American horror story asylum. Okay, Sam,
take it away?

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Oh okay, Lauren, killers of the Flower Moon or winners
of Name that tune?

Speaker 4 (30:26):
Name That Tune?

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Okay Lauren failing a touring test or signing an email.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Best oh m best, Okay Lauren saying I have intergenerational trauma,
or saying I get it from my mama.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
I get it from my mama.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Okay, updating your iOS or queer baiting with your massive breasts.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
I'll pick cleer baiting.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
M Okay, a cultural shift or a Vulture dot com list.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Nice, Oh, I.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
Do love I do love Vulture. I do love a
Vulture dot com list.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, okay, the Fast and the Furious or congrats he's
by curious.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
That one spoke to me.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Congrats he's by curious.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah. Okay, May the force be with you, May the
odds be ever in your favor, or maybe she's born
with it. Maybe it's Maybeleine Nice.

Speaker 4 (31:37):
May the odds ever be in your or whatever.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
The Hunger Games thing is, okay, if you know, you know,
if you build it, they will come.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
Or that one.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Wow, I love a multimedia presentation that is amazing.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Wow wow Wow. I got so nervous that I had
it that I like rehearsed having it pause at the
right moment, and I'm literally shaking because I was like,
what if it didn't work? Then when I play, you
guys looked a little confused because I think the sound
was not immediately apparent, and I was like, I fucked
it up. I fucked it up.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
No, I think you completely nailed that, and I think
you're pushing the straight shooters game to hire and hire heights.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
So, Lauren, we read our guests on a scale of
one to one, zero to one thousand doves, and George,
how do you think she did?

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Okay? I mean the thing is, I do think we
have to be even stricter than normal because we are
dealing with like an actual sort of professional thinker, which
most of our guests are not. So I think if
this was like I think, if Lauren was open my comedian,
i'd say one thousand doves. But you know, in this

(33:04):
day and age, I think it's I think it's gonna
have to be like nine to twenty.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Okay, wow, so a curve that actually that hurts me.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah pretty much.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Well, I mean one hundred percent agree George is always
right and I would never question him.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, but that's still really good.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Okay. I do want to get to our topic because
I want to before we get into it. I really
want to get into the list of topics you sent
because I would say it is, in fact, I'm gonna
say this confidently the number one best list of topics
we have gotten. I mean the most comprehensive broad there's
range within it. I mean the PhD jumped.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
Out, Yes it was, it's a bit much.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
But the thing is, I think it could be a
bit much if you had like over intellectualized it. But
actually you met us exactly where we are, and all
of these topics would like make sense on the pot.
It's not like you came in and you were like,
my topic is aphic theory.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
Oh my gosh, yeah, that'd be well.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
I like, I just like had a little bit of
anxiety and like the second after I sent them, because
it reminded me of this time when my friends are
having a Halloween party and they were looking for like
playlist suggestions for songs and I literally sent them.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Basically like a fully executed party playlist and they're like, Okay, well,
maybe pick a couple.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Of selections from this, but appreciate the enthusiasm.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Wow, I mean, George, should we read the whole thing
or should we pick?

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Like, okay, you I maybe I can read the whole
thing from beginning to end, and then maybe we can
pick a couple to do like one sentence.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
About how about that? Okay?

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Okay, So I'm just gonna read the whole thing from beginning. Okay,
cruise control slash identity, nuance, the expression you guys, blackout Wednesday, backpacks,
touch tunes slash digital jukeboxes, happy Hour, creative nonfiction, voting,
Getting Fired Up, book covers, parentheses, the blob, especially philanthropy

(35:18):
slash donating money audiobooks. Remember when Seinfeld Housewives, it's the
thought that counts water parks and amusement parks in general,
going through the motions. That's a favorite of mine. Taylor
Swift parentheses, Galer's aside running Mimosa's chain hotels, a nude lip,
team sports, and the expression go big or go home.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Wow. Wow, so comprehensive.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
So at first we were like, my first instinct was
to do identity because I was like, we need to
have the final word on identity on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
And then I was like, well, that actually feels like
it might be too nuanced of a conversation to have.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
And Lauren in fact said the opposite, because Lauren, you
were like, no, it's it's so odd.

Speaker 4 (36:04):
It's like it's so.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Self evident that, like, you know, straight people have I
have identity.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Have identities and queer people don't, but like.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
The idea of like, oh, imagine like a straight person
like holding really steadfast to like how they choose to
think of themselves or how the world sees them.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Also, my theory for this was going to be like
identity is straight, but action is queer. It's like clinging
onto an identity is a very straight thing, whereas to me,
the queer thing is in fact, enacting that identity in
specific ways.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yes, so you're saying, you're saying, like, oh you're by well,
then go hook up with someone of the same stuff.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Literally, that is exactly what I'm saying, And like I.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Like almost have what I is maybe like a smart
it's just say a smart version of that, But.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
I would be interested to hear. No, George needed to
hear that.

Speaker 6 (37:08):
I did need to know, Like I think this like
actually like does have to do with you know how
like people use the word performative like incorrectly it's a performative,
and that like performativity is actually about like words that
do do things versus like the way he's performative now,
which is like means like fake or like posturing or

(37:29):
like saying you're an ally and like not actually doing
ally ship. So that's like the yeah, I guess like
citational to what you were saying.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Exactly, and it's sort of like performative. The real performative
is queer and the fake performative is straight.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Yeah, just like just like Butler said.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, yeah, Butler, he's always said that.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
What's one of them that spoke to me that we're
not going to do is water parks. I think I
think that really spoke to me because there is you know,
to me, a water park could easily be LGBTQ plus,
Like there's something so whimsical and you know, clothing clothing
optional about a water park that I'm like, right, this

(38:15):
is a queer space to sort of let your freak
flag fly. But that actually is never what they are,
and in fact, they're deeply, deeply conservative, and the promise
of the queerness of a water park is what makes
it even straighter.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I would almost say the promise is not even there.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
It's it's it's bathing culture, it's it's it's it's beautiful,
it's community.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
So sure, I mean you're thinking of like a why yes,
I mean it's also so children like if you're gonna
let your freak flag fly at the water park, you're
gonna get arrested for publican decency.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
And also like I mean water parks to me invoke Wisconsin.

Speaker 5 (38:53):
For some reason, and so well the Dells.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
The Dells of course, it also like a lot of
like water park in the Midwest, such as they even
still exist, I feel like they should probably not exist anymore.
Are very like interior, so that also like adds another
level of like sort of like indoor hotel pool kind
of vibes, which is also I think to me, very family,

(39:16):
very kids, very like chlorine, which is a smell that
I don't dislike to be honest.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
But yeah, it actually really speaks to me.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
They're also dirty in a non sexual way, like they're
just dirty. You can't be turned on by the kind
of dirty a water park is, whereas you actually can
be turned on by the kind of dirty like a
locker room shower, right, or a.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Bathroom yeah yeah, or bath yeah yeah, we're like a
toilet filled with ship.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Okay, So then should we get to the topic that way?
I guess we can. Yeah, yeah we can't, Yeah we should.
We should get to it. The Blob book covers Blob
is also fun, but we can't we can't get into it. Yeah, okay,
So the topic we decided on is happy hour, which
I actually think is a it is broad enough to

(40:11):
really encapsulate a lot of stuff we want to talk about.
So I guess, Lauren, like in a few sentences like
what inspired you about happy hour? And what do you
think makes it straight?

Speaker 3 (40:22):
There's a lot of points of entry here. So, first
of all, happy hour completely exists within the constellation of
like work wife, work husband, which to me is just
like the straightest configuration of a work relationship. Like literally
we cannot think of a colleague relationship outside of the

(40:43):
kind of marriage for and like that is is very
you know, all of that is like very present in
happy hour. It's like this idea of a of a
kind of faux community. It's not real. It's having drinks
with literally people you work with.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
It's very uh I was.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Gonna say, very alcoholic. I mean, but it also is
it's it's permission to kind of like fuck off the
end of the workday and just like hang out with
these people who you maybe like but like don't like,
and it's and you're in.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
Your work clothes and at like I don't know.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Like a sports bar hub and no one's dancing, but
people are getting like progressively drunker and more like rowdy.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
I will say totally.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, I think this really does speak to me. This
one really jumped out to me. I think, like because
I think when I was like when I first moved
to New York City, there was something I really romanticized
about the happy hour. Or I was like, damn, when
you were going to the happy hour, your life must
be so together. You go to work, you go to
happy hour, you go home, you go to sleep, you

(41:57):
do it all over again. And I was like that
really sounds like nice. But then I was like, that's
like it is almost fantasizing about the traditional family. Like
you're like, like media has told me I want this,
and I actually don't want this. Like what I actually
want is like to go out to dinner with a
friend and like have like a meaningful moment or like
like or like there's an assumption with a happy hour

(42:21):
that like you're not doing anything that night, and like
this is the final stop. This is your hour of
you know, socializing before you go back to your rules. Yeah,
and yeah, I don't think we we tie ourselves down
in such a way.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
The way that it is so regimented and built into
a day that is assumed to be a certain way,
like the way it assumes conformity is very straight. It
is also sort of like recess or nap time for adults.
Like there's something very infantalizing about it. Even the name
happy hour actually sounds like something out of orwell, like

(42:58):
it's like there's a fascistic government and they are allowed
one one hour of happiness every day and if you
go even one minute past that, you will get shot
on the street. And so there's like that there, there's
a sort of like it's very the lady doth protest
too much like happy hour? Are you sure is that happy?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Because it actually.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Sounds kind of sad the concept of a happy hour.
And also, okay, the deals are never that good. No,
actually sometimes they are, but often they are not.

Speaker 4 (43:31):
They are, but they're not.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Like they'll be like yeah, it's like two dollars off
of well drinks, right, or like.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
The good happy hour deals are not actually at the
places where happy hour takes place. Yeah, So like the
like in Chicago, like the downtown, in the Loop around
the Loop, like those kinds of places where people go
for happy hour at least used to pre pandemic, and
but like those places are already overpriced. So it's like

(44:01):
your happy hour is paying maybe what is like close
to a humane price for like a draft beer or whatever.
And I also am saying all this as someone who
like adorees happy hour.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Oh of course it needs to be said. It needs Yeah. Well,
also like this the how finite it is, like there's
this sort of scarcity mindset where the entire time, you're
like the clock is chicking, when are we gonna get
that final drink because it's about to be two dollars
more expensive.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah, the scarcity mindset does stress me out. I also
like when you get to a bar and you look
at the menu and you see the happy hour prices
and you see what you're about to pay, it does
hurt my feelings. Like there is an element of me
where it's like, you know what, I'm going to come
back here one day on happy hour and I'm they're
not going to get away with what they're about to

(44:56):
do to me, like I'm getting their deal and I
never ever do, but I do fantasy about it. And
it's cool that they show you what you could be having, right, And.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Have you ever had the situation where you know you're
meeting someone up for happy hour and it's like the
clock I mean speaking of a clock, like the clock
is ticking and they get there with maybe ten minutes
to spare, and you're just like you.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Got to order as though, like the as though, like.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
The drinks become just like astronomically more expensive, and or
you were going to get tossed out and you're like
should we double fist?

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Should you be triple fis?

Speaker 3 (45:29):
Like what?

Speaker 5 (45:30):
You know?

Speaker 3 (45:30):
That kind of that kind of urgency around happy hour
also makes it somewhat of a manic atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Absolutely when you're like two minutes after happy hour and
the bartender's like actually flexible and he's like you know what,
You're like, I'll give you the happy hour deal. Still,
I the way that I'm just like you have saved
my life, and like I was like, what's your address?
I'm sending you a Christmas present?

Speaker 7 (45:55):
Like what?

Speaker 1 (45:57):
It's weird how that like small gesture seems like the
biggest stretchure on earth.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, I'm like there's something about the specific ho it's
meant to be obviously the hour between work and dinner, presumably,
And there is something about that hour that actually, like
almost it is a scary time because you're in this
liminal space where you are not sure what to do.
And there's something about the concept of a happy hour

(46:23):
that it's like it's almost like the government being like,
here's your bottle, don't question it. Like in that hour,
if we actually liberated ourselves in that hour, we could
actually like come up, we could actually collectively organize that.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Actually like brings to mind a question, is that is
that like the idea behind happy hour, Like the presumption
is that you have you have dinner plans, and you
have dinner plans in a part of the city that
would make it not make sense for you to go
all the way home, change or whatever and like come back.

(46:56):
Because I actually don't know if I've ever been in
a happy hour situation where I had like an evening
to get to like that, this was like a like
a way station. It's like happy hour swallows the evening,
like it becomes the evening.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, I guess that is. I mean, I mean when
I was visiting Sam's parents, they do cocktail hour every
afternoon or like yeah, like sort of post work, which
I did not grow up with in my family. And
I was like, what, so this is the point of
a happy hour. Actually it's to have a cocktail before
it's time for dinner.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Oh I love, I love, I love cocktail hour.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I mean it's very chic. There can be something very
chic about it. I'm trying to think, like it's like
fun to rail against happy hour. Of course there's a
million things to rail against. But I'm also like, in
like a healthy like labor market, we do get to
have a hat, Like there is something where it's like, no,

(47:55):
we actually have to fight for happy hour. We have
to fight for five pm we are out of the
office and we are able to go to a bar.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Sure, yeah, because it.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Does allow because otherwise, I guess otherwise you might just
continue working, especially if it's like a happy hour on
like a Thursday.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
A Thursday happy hour is something I think that's a
little special.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Thursday happy hour is queer. Well, there's a happy hour.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
I mean there is the magical moment when you're like okay,
I'll go to happy hour and you have like two
drinks and then you're like all in and you're like, Okay,
actually we're going and we're going to have an amazing
night now and we're not going to stop until it's
nine pm. You're like, that is a magical feeling.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, I mean okay. So happy hour is embedded within
a sort of like downtown office culture inherently, like as
you were saying, Lauren, like the places that have happy
hours are the overpriced places that cater to a business
casual crowd. So in that sense it's so neoliberal, it's

(49:00):
so capitalist, blah blah. But in the other sense, a
happy hour is so worker friendly because it's not the
CEO is not going to happy hour. So a happy
hour is actually a place where the proletariat can congregate
and actually organize and potentially found a new political party
centered around equality and justice for all.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Yeah, like I'm imagining you know, you're planning the revolution
around like a like a in a big beer.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Hall, right exactly. Yeah, even in aparol sprits and it's
three dollars off, which does.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
I mean that's like, uh, it does occur to me.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Also that you know, the dream of happy hour was
also for me largely a dream for like a good
portion of my twenties. It became like the way that
I could like have us shared language with my friends
who like had real jobs while I was in grad school.
So like, for me, totally happy hour was Actually it

(49:59):
wasn't actual like russing up event because I would be
in I would be in my apartment all day, so
I'm just like, let me know when to meet you guys,
and I would like put on my little outfit and
like do my makeup and whatever, and everyone talks about
their jobs and I'm like nodding and not not really participating,
but there was I think something about I think also

(50:20):
the fantasy of happy hour is like the fantasy of
living in a city.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yes, yeah, well it's sex and the city.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yes, it's sex and the city. It's even friends. I
would argue, it's got it all.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, I okay. It's so evocative what you're saying, learn
about like being the one person who doesn't have a
traditional job or who is a freelancer or who is
between jobs, or who like has a job that is
not an office job or whatever you have to like
you almost feel like you're living a lie to be like, well,
I'm getting dressed up in my home at three pm,
Like I'm taking a shower at three pm in order

(50:55):
to make this happy hour at five pm. And I
guess I have this dirty secret that I wasn't in
an office all day, but everyone else was, right.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Because you also because you can't. I think the clothes
features so heavily in that, because the idea is you're
coming straight from work, so everyone's in their business casual.
But then it's like, what is what is business casual?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
But what are you going to do? Where a bit
like put on business casual so that you can fit
in with the people that don't even want to be
in business casual.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
No, that's absurd, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
It's also I also want to sorry. I'll also say.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
The sort of like additional portion of the fantasy is
like the going from day to night of it all.
I don't know if this was a familiar part of
your upbringing, but like in magazines like seventeen in Cosmo,
there's like always this like how to take a look.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
From day to night.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Here's what you do to your makeup that you put
on this morning so that it's fit to be seen
by like the night life folk or whatever. And much
like quicksand I just thought this would feature so much
heavily in my like day to day as an adult
than it actually has, because it turns out, you know,

(52:15):
when people go out for happy hour, like they don't care,
like they're not actually looking for you to turn into
a fashionista or something.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
You know. The only day to night I have to
deal with in my current life is like in the summer,
when it's like going from day to night, where like
day gay guy is like little shorts, little tank top,
and you're like, you know, dressed like a like a
bartender at a gay bar. And then like it's like

(52:44):
nighttime and you're like going to meet up with friends
somewhere normal, and you're like, wait, I actually I need
to dress down a little bit, like I'm dressed so
like yeah, like a farm boy who's like sexuality.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
I almost feel like it's funny, Like I feel like
what in seventeen or Cosmo or whatever. I would assume
what women are told is to find an office appropriate
look that can potentially translate well to the nighttime, whereas
I think gay guys, especially now, the solution is actually
just show up to work in a club outfit, like

(53:19):
it's the opposite where rather than being like, how can
I find a business casual outfit that I can wear
to the club, it's literally like, well, which of these
like jockstraps can I actually wear on its own to
you know my job at Deutsche Bank.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
Throw like just throw a blazer on it.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
I did work at J Crew when I first sim
to New York, and I love telling people like, oh
and it's perfect for day tonight. Like I just be
able to say that was so fun. It felt like
so informed when it really meant nothing.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah, but it does mean something, is the thing that's
true because you don't want to be wearing khakis at
like at the big party, the big party.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
At the big party that we're all going to. Well
in the same way that like, I know that I
can fantasize about fast casual food because I'm like, you know,
office people eat this every day, but I you know,
I haven't had like an office job, a traditional like
long term office job, so I don't eat it that often.
Like when I eat it's because I'm going to midtown
for something on purpose, and so it feels kind of

(54:23):
novel and happy. Aur feels that way to me too,
I wonder if you are like an office person and
your life will be in an office, do you get
sick of happy hour or does it become a chore?
Is it something you don't like?

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Unfortunately? I mean I am not qualified to because I
still don't have a normal job.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
I feel like it depends on, like, okay, a lot
of things depend on this. It depends on how inherently depressing,
how inherently depressing you find day to day life, you
know what I mean? Like, I actually think if you
just are a little are not super critical, and are
just like enjoying your job at the big online digital company,

(55:07):
and you are going to happy, You're like, how fun?
I worked so hard today. I absolutely slayed that presentation.
I got a really good mid year review. Yeah, I'm
gonna go like have a Campari sprits, which I read
on you know, eater is better than an apparel sprits
at my job? Whoopsies, don't tell anyone I'm reading Eater
at my job. I'm so crazy. My name's Natalie and

(55:29):
so and so. For her, I think it never gets suppressing.
But for someone who like already hates their coworkers and
is just like so sick of their job, They're like,
are you fucking kidding me? I have to go and
also drink with them, right, Because it's also like everything,
it's sort of it's it's.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
It's compulsory a bit, right.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
It's that like part of like the the intangibles of
like fit and culture and like soft skills, where like
if you don't go to the routine happy hours, it's like,
are you going to be a team player on this
like project to I don't know, do something probably destructive
to the planet, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Right, Yeah, I mean it's like the fridge full of
free snacks, Like, yeah, I like the free No one
can say, I know, I don't like the free snacks,
but I hate what they represent.

Speaker 7 (56:18):
Yeah, yeah, the the the other I'm not sure if
it's even sort of like more interesting aspects of happy
hour is I do wonder what what happy hour in
the suburbs is, Like, I mean, I don't I don't
really wonder, but it is it's kind of a black
box to me, I don't know what goes on there,

(56:40):
but I do know that like the Applebee's and the
Chili's have a lot of happy hour and like type deals,
which is always.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Like Dollar Market, right, which is.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
Always confounding because the parking lot is bigger than the restaurant.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
So I'm like, what do we do?

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, well everyone is having extramarital affs at a suburban Applebee's.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Well that's where it gets LGBTQ plus again.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
I kind of agree, like, yeah, there's actually something more
sexy about a midwestern Applebee's than about like a like
a sort of mediocre Manhattan bar.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Yeah. Yeah, Well it's such a rebellion in the suburbs.
I feel like you are, like you're you're pretty much
Iggy Pop, you know, exactly going to the to the bar,
to Applebee's for a happy hour. Damn damn. And not
to mention you're Iggy Popp, you're also rebellious. And since
that you are drunk driving home, doesn't get more rebellious

(57:40):
to the great.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
That's the great unsaid about suburban totally.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
I mean the way that this is always confused me,
Like whenever I think about, you know, so many people
live in places where they are driving everywhere, and I'm like, okay,
but what do you do? Bars still exists there, what
do you do? And they're like shy, no one's gonna
say it. No one's gonna say what you do.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah, never ask a woman her age, a man his salary,
or someone who lives in the Midwest. If they drive drunk,
it is.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Crazy to me. Somebody's got to wake it up.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Do we think happy hour is more or less straight
than brunch because I feel like they occupy a similar
space in the popular imagination as like things that are
so forcefully meant to be fun that if you're a
quote unquote actually cool, you rebel against them.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
I think it's more straight because there is the work element.
I think brunch, whether you have a job or not,
you can go to brunch.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Yeah, brunch, I think I will say this. I think
brunch is getting straighter.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
Is that like a one?

Speaker 3 (58:48):
It's almost like it it's like, uh, you know, circling
back where you know the idea of brunch, Not that
I know anything about the origins of this meal seem
like they originate in like a very straight like hetero
plays country clubs, country club yes, like Lenen and like

(59:10):
Chanel whatever, and then you know became I mean like
brunch on sex and the city is like that is queer, right, yes,
But then now like like the drag brunch of it all,
which like you would think would be clear, is actually
like one of the straightest things you can do.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Yeah, it's I mean, I'm sorry to use this archetype,
but it's very almost Karen like brunch now is like
Republican white women.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Yes, it's for it's for that, like distinctly for that demographic,
for the you know, the fans.

Speaker 4 (59:50):
Of of of well.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Fans of Beyonce who you know, listen to single ladies
and like nothing else.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
The happy hour and brunch binary is interesting because I
do think brunch is for you know, discussing in the
sex and the city sense. It's for discussing sex. It's
for discussing you know, how wild your night was, how
wild your weekend is going. And a happy hour is
a way is not about you are not discussing sex.

(01:00:20):
You are discussing work. But it does get there is
the trope of it getting sexy, like it blurs a lot,
like you like enter real personality again within happy hour
and sometimes too rapidly and try to hook up with
your coworker exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
It's like it's you're like slowly you know, watching like
the evolution of like work personality to real life personality
or like night life personality, and the you know, not
to rely.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
On cliches, but like the ties get loosened.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
I mean, no one even wears ties anymore, but the
like proverbial tie, and like the blazer, which again I
don't think people wear.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Like pagonia vest is getting unzipped. Yeah yeah, like yeah,
I mean I almost am like does that make it
more queer in that it's this like it's a spectru
It's it's this halfway point on the spectrum where one
end is professional and one end is you know, your

(01:01:20):
private life, your your personal life. Like it is, there's
a sort of like almost like uh, you know, eighties
nineties erotic thriller excitement to a happy hour?

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Happy hour? Is cruising a happy hour? Is it's the
seventies and you are cruising Central Park like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Because well maybe it's that that's the promise of it,
but then the reality of it is so not that
that that is what makes it straight Like it it's
supposed to have all this possibility, I mean it's literally
happy hour, and then you get there and you're just
sort of like okay, like maybe next time, I guess
I'm not hooking up with Brian again or you know

(01:01:59):
this this Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
Yeah, I mean I think, yeah, okay, the spectrum thing
I think has has has some legs. Like if we
think about like the most like uh like archetypical, Like
I was gonna say like don Draper, but that that's
not even like because that's not happy hour.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
That's like that's like what what lunch?

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Yeah, But if we think about like a man who
has a job and a family, which totally many of
them existing, right, It's like he he leaves work, so
he is no longer like he's no longer like employee, coworker, whatever.

(01:02:42):
He's not yet home, right, so he's not dad. He's
still not dad. He's still not father, he's still not husband.
It's like, what is he doing?

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
Happy hour?

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
Something else?

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
You know? Happy hour is where he can just be Brian.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
That is so powerful. Actually yeah, now I really say
happy hours. We need it now we'll Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Happy hours is sort of I mean it's a it's
a place for straight people to do identity play, like
they can just be anyone they want.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yeah, I mean we talk about like you know, like
queer people have to be like, you know, in the clubs,
I found myself and I was able to be like
to express myself in this way and like, yes, I
was fucked up, but it was like honest and it
was real. And it's like that's happy Hour for Brian.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Yeah, and I love that for him.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
He needs it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
He needs it just as much as anybody else. Wow.
Well that was powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
This is like a quintus. I feel like this is
such a quintessential straight topic. Yeah, Like I'm like, talk
about a great prompt for some theorizing somewhere out there.
You know, all the apic theorists are shaking in their
boots and their affected little boots and they're little booths.

Speaker 4 (01:04:03):
Yeah, we're the poptimists of happy Hour. I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Yeah, there we go. We always get there in the end.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
We do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Should we do our final segment? Yeah, I'm trying to think.
I was sort of. I had one moment where I
was like dissociating because I realized I didn't have anything
for a final segment.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
But yeah, I don't have anything either, But let me
think for one second.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
I'll explain what it is. So Laura and our final segment,
as you know, is called shout outs, and we pay
homage to the radio shout out, the classic straight oral
tradition that has been passed down from generations from Brian
to Brian all the way to us today. And you know,
traditionally we do think of it on the spot, and
sometimes that is easier than others. Sam, do you have one.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
I can do it. I can do what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Are you sure?

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's mid but we'll try it. Okay, okay,
go ahead, Okay, what's up everybody? Good morning, good afternoon,
and good night. I want to give a huge shout
out to tea. That's right, I SIPs tea. I'm drinking
tea these days. You know, since I have had my

(01:05:20):
medical issues, I think my blood is still not back
to normal, to be quite honest. So I have had
coffee and it makes me so anxious now and immediately
fucks my whole self up. So I'm drinking tea and
it's much easier on my body. No, I don't feel
the rush shout out choice devon, but I do feel,
you know, there's something about doing a little bit less.

Speaker 7 (01:05:42):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
I'm I'm in a scaling back era and sort of
being like, you know, maybe I don't need to go
buck wild on a cold brew. Maybe I can just
have seven teas throughout the day maintain sort of a
calm buzz and that is enough. I'm I'm I'm pulling
back in every way, shape and form. I'm sort of
living my post I don't know, post something lifestyle and

(01:06:09):
it's weird and it's a little bit disappointing, but I
do I am enjoying the tea element. So shout out
to tea and needless to say, I spilled xoxo Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Wow, that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah, no, well it's confusing, I do. Miss I'm I
am in a transitional era in this. Yeah, my medical
issue whatever whatever it is, has like you know, physically
changed me a little bit, and I'm like, I want
to get back to who I was, But right now
I'm a little bit like cautious in every way, in

(01:06:46):
a way that I don't enjoy actively, but it is
like an interesting thing to perceive myself through.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
There are worse things than becoming a tea person.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
People are greatly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Some, but some tea people are so annoying.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Tea I have to say, like tea is very grad
school coded to me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
Yeah, it's yeah, well because it's not well not to
admit my my coffee preferences, but it's like tea is
like not, it's not real. It's like it's not a
real caffeinated beverage. Right, Oh, don't drink you know, black
tea at night? You know black tea has I'm like,
come on, come on, yeah, let's get real.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Let's get real. I can absolutely drink black tea at
night and.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Go yeah, talk about snowflake vibes. People saying you can't
drink black tea at night. It's like, how about try
actually entering the real world for a second.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
There's something about tea. Also, like someone holding a tea
cup and like dipping their little tea bag. I'm like,
so you're judging me. There's an element. I'm like, so
you think you're better than me?

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Yeah, literally SIPs tea.

Speaker 4 (01:07:56):
But also like admit, like that, what does that do?
That doesn't do?

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
You're either has to steep. What does like bouncing up
up and down? Does that do anything?

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
People need to do?

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Bounce in it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
Yeah? Yeah please, yeah, no, you're totally right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Wow, I'm glad we brought this up. Actually, don't shout
out stea, fuck tea and if you drink tea, in
the words of our friends Pat and Kat, seek treatment. SI.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Okay, all right, I really do need to I really
do need to. Okay, I can, I can, I can
do a shout out. Okay, what's up, readers, that's right,
I'm getting back into books. People, you know, fans at
home might know that I have been reading the book
The Beast Thing by Paul Murray. It is like if
Jonathan Franzen was irish and also not annoying, and I

(01:08:47):
am enjoying the hell out of it. But let me
tell you something. There is a full on one hundred
and fifty page section that has no punctuation, and it
is meant to represent that the woman who is doing
the narrator narrating is so like stressed and anxious and
everything is going in my limited that you can't even
pause to put a comment in a period. And while
I do appreciate the formal experimentation as a reader, I

(01:09:11):
did not enjoy that. And so basically my shout out
is to me last night finishing that section, which again
was almost two hundred pages of no punctuation in a
feminist way, because it's narrated by a woman. So shout
out to punctuation. I've just changed my shoutout. Actually it's
not the book. Shout out to punctuation, the way we
know how to read something. You know, as Joni Mitchell

(01:09:33):
was once said, you don't know what you got till
it's gone. And in the sample from that Janet Jackson song,
and so basically shout out to punctuation. You actually can
do so much with it. I'm talking commas, Sammy Colan's,
Colon's even periods, question marks, exclamation points, and you know,
when you're trying to be cool by being all lowercase
and no punctuation over text, check your privilege, because punctuation

(01:09:56):
is important, and punctuation is is how we know how
to read something. And so we need to get past
this like post meaning world we're all living in. Get
back to real punctuation. And everyone needs to write texts
that are written as though they're going to be published
on the New Yorker dot com. Wow, So shout out
to punctuation, Shout out to the written word, which actually

(01:10:16):
needs to make a comeback. And honestly, shout out to Emmelda,
the character in my book that doesn't use punctuation, because
I get where you're coming from, girl, and I totally
understand it. It's just as a reader, I was not
able to relate.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Whoo. I love that. I actually punctuation is an interesting
thing because I obviously I do stand punctuation. I think
it does help, but I actually don't stand punctuation rules.
I'm sort of like, no, no, no, like as long
as you're like making it make sense, I actually do stand.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
I do stand punctuation.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Rules because I'm like, I've to me, you know, affect theory.
That's how I feel about punctuation. I'm like, does it
make me feel like I'm understanding the sentence?

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
So like a comma splice like do not recognize it?

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Or rather encouraging, like when there's like when you're like,
oh is it a semi colon or a colon that
goes here? It's like, babe, whatever you want, Like, I'll
get it. I think the sentence won't make sense whether
whether or not it's a colon or semi colon.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
I would say to me, A like a carefully placed
com I can almost be like passive aggressive, it can
be like it can it can be a wink.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Well that I don't disagree with. I more mean like
the if.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Oh you mean like someone being like that's wrong? Yeah,
oh totally No, of course it's it's a mode of
self expression like anything else. Exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:11:33):
I love a semi that's my favorite me too, I would.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
Say, yeah, colonist.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Talk about queer semi colon is probably the most queer punctuation.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
I mean quite literally.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Okay, you're ready, you have a shout out?

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
I guess I do.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Is there like a time thing?

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
No, just go for as long as you want. Okay,
we put a little soundtrack under it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Okay, this is probably going to be a little bit sure,
but I will go for it. Hey, everyone out there, Hey,
just wanted to shout out the young gentleman who was
sitting next to me on the plane ride that I
took yesterday evening.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
I was wanting to read my book, a book of poetry.
Actually I very rarely read.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Poetry, and I want to go click the little light
on top of the reef of the plane, and mine
was working and his was working, and despite it being dark,
in him sort of being curled up with his good
movie that I actually didn't pay attention to whatever it was.
He turned his lane on and shown it in my
direction and said that it did not bother him at all,

(01:12:46):
that it was the only light that was shining in
the completely dark plane, allowing me to continue to very
obnoxiously read my poetry on like a little puddle jumper
from North Carolina to Chicago. So shout out to that man,
who I'm sure it is a very chill person chill
personality wherever you are, if you're listening to this, which

(01:13:07):
I obviously know that you are because we had a
very long conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:13:10):
You know, we didn't talk at all, So shout out
to him.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
Shout out to reading reading on planes, but not to
change mid shout out. But also reading on planes does
make the time go faster, not slower, And it's very
good if you have any flight anxiety, like I do
a little bit, because you can just focus on the
word and the word will get you through.

Speaker 4 (01:13:31):
And so that's that's my shout out.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Wow woo wow, I mean that's incredible. You know, remember
when John Krasinski had that show in the Pandemic that
was like some good news I actually think, which was
obviously horrible, But I think we need that for like
travel viral videos, because all travel viral videos are people
like screaming and fighting in each other. I may see

(01:13:53):
viral video where a man turns on a light for
the woman next to him who is reading a book.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
I mean, we've literally gotten to the point where you
and I are basically desperate for upworthy, Like that is
what it is. Talk about, talk about true horseshoe theory.
Like everything is so annoying that actually, at this point,
I would literally go to the to the good news
section of the Huffington Post and just scroll the.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
Actually good news, not like teacher walked five miles to
make sure their student could have a marker or what
exactly right?

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Right, It's like this teacher like didn't get surgery so
she could afford to get school supplies. Right, it has
to be it has to be top down. It has
to be like yeah, it has to be like yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Has to be like these these employees like lied about
how long they were at work and the boss didn't
find out, Like yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
Was thinking, like Ceo walks into the ocean or something.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Totally yeah, CEO decides I'm going to give up into
the ocean.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Are like finally some good news. This guy that it sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
That would be amazing. Wow, Lauren, thank you so much
for doing the podcast. This is a real treat.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
Thank you, Thank you so much, Laurence.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
I think many people will think this is a happy hour.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
And there we have it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
There we have it. Damn Well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
If you're a student at Northwestern take Lauren's class, that's
me trying to promote your work.

Speaker 4 (01:15:27):
Every little bit counts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Every little bit counts.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
So true.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Okay, cool, bye.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Podcast and now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for
two extra episodes a month, discord access and more by
heading to patreon dot com. Slash Stradio lab.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
And for all our visual learners, free full length video
episodes are available on our YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Now get back to work and