"Hot Dogs" w/ Jamie Loftus

Sorry, what was that? We couldn't hear you because we were reading the New York Times bestselling book RAW DOG by our illustrious guest Jamie Loftus. That's right, welcome to our first episode fully sponsored by a book — it's called elevating women's stories, sweetie! Jamie dishes on her cross-country hot dog road trip and we all swap hot dog anecdotes that range from the uplifting to the downright NASTY! Also discussed: the aesthetics of office buildings, the continued rise of post-meaning language, and the shadowy elitism of Los Angeles farmer's markets. So fire up the grill, throw some wieners on there, and smash that play button, because it's time to RELISH (!) another episode of the most lucrative podcast in North America.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
HOODI who Glamour Girls. This is just your weekly reminder
that our first show in seven months. That's right, our
first show in seven months is on June fifteenth at
the Bell House and we cannot wait to see you there.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
I can't believe it's been so long since we've done
a show. That's actually crazy.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
I know we are leaving money on the table. I've
said it once and I'll say it again.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
We are bad at our job as podcasters. But that's
what makes us relatable. And guess what, this show is
going to blow your mind out of your skull because
we have an incredible lineup that includes Josh Sharp and
Aaron Jackson, the Pervert Brothers themselves, Sabrina Wu and the
Pulitzer Prize winning Andrea long Tooo. Yeah, we're bringing a

(00:44):
Pulitzer to the Bell House.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
You know, I have heard a rumor that she might
bring the physical prize and potentially, you know, I think
it would be fun if we actually if she gave
us the price then came on stage and we presented
it to her a new So it's sort of it
can be like Radio Lab presents the Pulitzer Prizes.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Wait, that's actually unfortunately that's a whole new show that
we have to do. All right, We're doing it, but
check around, stick around. But anyway, see you at the
Bellhouse on.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Tickets are on our in our Instagram bio. But also
guess what, google it. Yeah, it's pretty easy. You're smart,
all right, enjoy the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Bye okay. Podcast starts now. Wow. Wow, we are coming

(01:44):
in so deeply red hot, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I uh, you know, I'm gonna I think We're gonna
tell the story while maintaining a sense of empathy for
everyone involved. Empathy is so important to remember, while maintaining
a sense of social justice. Of course, we are coming
at everything we're about to say from a sense of
how do we redistribute wealth?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Of course, that is the key to everything that we
will be saying. But I also want to just counter
that slightly and say we will also be coming from
a place of self love self respect.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I have never had more self love or self respect
in my life, to the point where I would say
I'm romantically attracted to myself. Yeah, in a way that
feels a little perverse. It's sick even, it's nasty, it's disgusting,
and it's giving sort of it's very like you know,
when Janet Jackson on tour would do those especially sexy

(02:45):
parts where she like humped someone on stage, except I
have none of her grace or talent, so it seems
it's coming for me. It feels a little like whoa
it is okay, yeah, and it's you humping you, so
it's like really messy to look at it. Yeah, it's weird.
I'm humping my own leg like a dog, like a dog,
like a very flexible dog. And by the way, yeah,
other people are in the room. I'm like doing this

(03:06):
sort of in the middle of a business meeting, in
the middle of a board meeting, even.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
But the whole thing is you don't care because you
are so filled with self love and self respect exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
And by the way, you know, dead sober ten am.
This is not some sort of I don't have a
drug problem or a drinking problem. Not even about to
whether after the story maybe that's that's a solution to
our issues. I mean, when it comes down you know
what you should say.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
No, you should say it. I like, I'm actually too biased,
and I don't know if I could be leading with
love and leading with them.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
The thing, the thing with leading with love is like,
there is not a single person I can point to
and be like you are on time out at the
public school ps. Sixty nine that we are part of. Sure, sure,
there's not a single person I can point to and
say this is your fault. But sometimes there are too
many people involved in a decision making process and communication

(03:57):
breaks down. And that leads me to my story, which
is that pretty much, we went into the building where
we record, Yes, gave our.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Names to the front desk.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's a it's ten am the time when we were
supposed to record, of course, gave her names to the
front desk person, and then commenced a sort of who's
on first comedic sketch that you might find on let's
say SNL or the Catherine Tate Show if you're British.
That lasted approximately twenty five minutes. I would say, yeah,

(04:30):
of sort of someone readding us to a list, then
that list being in the hands of the wrong person,
so that when the downstairs person called the upstairs person,
she was like, no, I don't know about that list.
But then the list, But then we would show the list,
and then we would show a name of a person
be like, well, can you call this person? Who's like,
of course I can call them. Can they come downstairs?
We're like, well no, if they could come downstairs, then
we wouldn't be giving a phone number, we'd be giving

(04:50):
you a person as human, a warm human body.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
And so then we are stuck downstairs.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well, I want ever want to imagine this visual.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
You know it's visually it's a fancy, fancy business ye building.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Fancy businessy building. People going in and out. We are
talking women with blazers that cost upwards of ten million dollars.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
We are both dressed in collared shirts, and yet we
still look like absolute trash.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, I mean, I'm not even gonna look down at
our pants, but I can guess both of them are stayed.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Every single person that passed us, you could feel them
being like you, like, who let them in?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, we were holding coffee cups, people kept putting coins
in them, and.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Then to get denied at the door. It just like
fed into their narrative of like these people they don't
belong here, they don't belong here, they're not welcome, and
in fact we should get them out of the city.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, it's sort of crazy to be on so many lists,
seventeen lists total, probably at this point, and yet to
be denied entry again and again and again.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
The way that as soon as you were denied entry
in a place where you one are supposed to literally
supposed to be the way it makes you indignant instantly,
like it's really hard for me not to be like,
you know, I run a fucking pot cast, right, you
know I have a fucking podcast that. Yeah, Vulture really
seems to like does that mean nothing in this town anymore?
Suddenly New York media is dead?

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Can I say something though, to bring it back with
social justice? Sure, because we have to acknowledge our own
psychoses here, m here's the thing. What we're mad about
is that the door to the elite was opened to
us and then closed.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Like we are, in fact.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
We are coming from a place of elitism and and
you found privilege. Sure we are. Like, if it's a
gun to your head, do you think everyone should be
allow in the iHeart studio? Suddenly suddenly you're being exclusionary.
You're like, well, no, we are because we're on the list.
We are not coming at it from like a liberatory
point of view. We're actually it actually like we're being

(06:52):
sort of toxic.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
No, I have to disagree with you. I actually do
kind of think everyone should be on the list. I
think there should still be a door guy. Okay, but
you should be able to be like, no, I have
a meeting or whatever, and it can be a lie.
I don't care if you're lying, but you do have
to lie, and then he has to be like, okay,
you're good. Then okay.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
So you want to want the aesthetics of you know,
downstairs upstairs, down down town abbey. Yeah, but anyone, any
any of the downtown abbey, you know, cooks can just
sort of put on a hat and be like, well,
I'm going upstairs.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, what a fun story for them to tell. Be like,
I put on a hat, I went upstairs. No one
said anything, and I went back downstairs. I went back
towards Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
And guess what, maybe the rich people can go downstairs
for sort of like unethical tourism. Yeah, and they can
be picked and they can take a picture of them
like cooking a stew and be like.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Like, I mean, I'm being so lower class right now. Okay.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
So you want, basically like corporate America as a whole,
to become more of a cabaret of course.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Well I want the door guy to be theater of course.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well the door guy should be a very tall drag queen. Yeah,
the whole towering over you.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
I'm I want bar culture. I want to show my
ID and they're like, okay, yeah you're you're a and
then it's like, go head upstairs. That would be fun,
Like you're you're over twenty one, go for it. Wow,
that's literally like that's kind of what I thought a
door person was, even in a corporate building, Like I
was like, you're not actually checking for names, Like there's
so many names and so many people.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, it's so funny because I feel like you were
so taken aback by everything that was happening, you know,
to some extent, as was I. But there's part of
me that almost expects that whenever I enter a fancy building,
I will be turned away the first three times I ask,
you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, even as
I was saying my name to the to the front
desk person, I was like, well, he's gonna say no,
and then I'll and then it's like my drop to

(08:34):
convince him. But I'm worthy.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah. Yeah, it never occurred to me.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
He would immediately like look down and be like, oh,
we've been expecting you.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Do you want a free macha? You know? I well,
I think the reason I want it to be so
so I want a corporate America to be a cabaret
is because whenever I walk into a building, I am
pretending I'm instantly like I work here, I'm an employee.
Like when he was like, are you visiting or do
you I'm like, mmm, I don't know, like visiting. I
guess I could be, but I also.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Could be working here. You know what this reminds me
of recently. We need to bring in our guests to
stat but this reminds me of recently when you were
talking about someone and you were describing how uh there
was sort of maybe a lack of communication between the
two of you, or you had some isssures with him,
and you were like, well, you know, I'm silly and
he's serious. Do you remember this?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
No, who was I talking about? Oh? Yeah, you know what?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
And that's what I'm getting. That's what I'm getting again.
It's like, actually, what's going on is that you come
from the culture of silliness. Yeah, and you are rubbing
up against a culture of dead seriousness, like there is
no there's no sense of camp to whether someone is
or is not on the list.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Have some fun with it, you know. Yeah, it's also
like you everything's fake. Your job is fake. Everything like
being the door guy at the corporate building.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Come on, okay, if you're listening, your job is not
fake and you are valid and you are just as
bad as the CEO of iHeart.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Well, I think that's job. I think it's all fake.
Like just let me up, let me up, and let
me speak into the microphone.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, well, you know it's not fake. A physical book
that you can get at a book score when you do.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Our guest bravely created We're so bad at promoting.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
No, we're not.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
We're really good at it. Okay, our guest.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
First of all, you know, I have to say this
is sort of a first episode where I was like,
I was like, let's fucking promote a book. This is
the The product that our guest is promoting is not
an afterthought. This is a sponsored episode. Yeah, Because I
texted her, I was like, do you want to come
on and have your straight topic be hot dogs?

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Like that?

Speaker 1 (10:37):
I'm I should be a marketing This is.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
A sponsored post.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
This is a sponsored post. This is an hour by choice.
It's not like her team reached out and we were like, sure.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
We'll do it. Well, she's a small business. Well she's
a small business and a person. Yeah what a small business.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
First, that's any moron, because all small businesses are people,
and big businesses even more. So okay, well we have
to bring her up.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
You know.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Now we're being sort of the camp drag queens that
are bringing someone.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
I know, we are being way Yeah. Well and we
should say the title of the book. That's key to
promote it. Yes, Yes, the book is called Raw Dog
and it's out out. It's been out for like a week.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Well at this point, it'll be out for like two
weeks anyway, Jamie High, Jamie Loftus High. Hello, this was
so thrilled.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Okay, so I was, as you know, almost a half
hour late, so I missed the entire canou play that
you performed. I sailed, I mean.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
You really did.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
I really sailed right, and you really got I didn't
even need to show my ID. They asked me my
last name. I didn't even give the first three letters,
even though people usually mess it up, and I just
came right up.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well you missed.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
The other chapter of this is that they did end
up after many attempts, they did put us on the list,
and then we went back and we were like, we
were like, wait, you do have Jamie loftus.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Too, right, And he's like who and we're like he
was like, I only heard the two of you, and
it was like, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
It's wild too, because when you get up here, it's empty,
there's no it is so much work to be in
and I work for this company, so I feel comfortable
saying one of the most haunting buildings I've ever been
inside of the hallways? Were you like yelling at us
when we walked down right?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
So when you enter there's a hallway that is motion
activated and you every step you take you get a
new audio cue.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
It was very like Kendall Roy's fortieth birthday.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, in the hallway. What the fuck is going on?
Surely we could use this money to give people raises.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
You know, but hire fifteen more front desk people if
they let us. One of them has to have a
sense of camp and.

Speaker 4 (12:36):
I do wish the person at the front desk was taller.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
That would Yeah, that would give us more confidence. I
do think you're speaking to something kind of powerful. If
there were maybe fifteen front desk people, we could break
one of them. And I think that would be sort
of fun to go down the line.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yes, it's a jury.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Oh my god, I would love it if it was
a literal jury and they all had to discuss. They're like,
what your name is? Sam and George, Okay, we'll get
back to you. And they go into the room and
one of them is like, this is about just that.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
I want twelve angry men to decide whether I should
go in the building. I was, I mean it was.
It felt thank you for your labor, for efforts. Thank
you prior to my arrival. Because I'm regularly, I think
also expect to be turned away from the building. I
did an I went to the Bloomberg Building a couple
of weeks ago, okay, and that was running And that
was one of the most chilling check in experiences of

(13:28):
my entire life, because I was like wearing two jackets, sure,
and sweating a little bit, looking a little out of place,
and it like, yeah, it took twenty minutes for me
to get up Because I think that I just looked
implausible in the space, in my little puffer jacket, in
my large sweater.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Books can be written. I mean, maybe your next book
about the politics and aesthetics of big office buildings.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
It's a bit scary.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Each of them is a mini fascist state.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
I mean, this room, not to put too fine a
point on it, is also pretty scary.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Well, we actually love recording.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
In the red room. Really, people have died to record
in this room. Yeah, they're red, that's blood.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's it's very shining me. I mean, it's I don't.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Know, it's true. It's a I hate when people say
this because it means nothing. But it's like when people
are like, it's a limental space.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
It kind of is a liminal space.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Right. Sometimes I say that and I'm like that wasn't right,
But no one has ever disagreed with me.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
I've said it.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah. Well, I think the key with liminal space is
no one knows what it means and it has lost
all meaning. Actually, I also think liminal space has died
as a phrase. Yeah, people don't say it anymore. It
got too big, too fast. Yeah, who killed it? Who
killed it? Honestly? That twitter account that was like liminal spaces.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
And it would just post like creepy hallways and you're like, yeah,
that's a hallway, sweetheart.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
It's just like how there's no longer truly a shirt
that goes hard. There's no point in culture, there's no
point in saying a shirt goes hard.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Okay, can I say something shirts that go hard? I
was recently I've actually been meaning to tell the story
for months.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
I was recently at a at a dinner after an
art opening. Okay, so we're talking, you.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Know, artsy, fancy wealth.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I look around the table. I swear to god it
is a group of all forty year old men. Every
single one of them is wearing fake comedic merch of
some sort.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Oh no, what style?

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Like well, I don't want to say specific. Imagine if
it's like imagine if it's.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Like say their names drop it.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Like one of them was like a fake Mets merch,
like Mets the baseball team, but instead of Mets, it
said like, you know, something else in that font, you
know what it's like? Things like that or like yeah,
where it'll be like a hat and rather than having
a logo we're all familiar with it'll say like butt
or whatever. I mean, they were a little more sophisticated.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Than that little different, but I was sort of like, okay, we.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Are reaching I feel like, you know, it's like the
culture of like online ceramics and a twenty four merch
and all that stuff. It has reached a fever pitch
where suddenly everyone's closets are just filled with fake merch
and you're like.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Wear a suit.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, that's going to be counterculture suit.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
I genuinely think wearing a suit will make out our
culture so bizarre.

Speaker 4 (16:23):
I mean, I'm participating in it right now with my
little shirt.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, you you are wearing a T shirt? Would you
like describe your T shirt?

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah? I mean, and I did. I paid forty dollars.
I mean yeah, it's it's a bunch of kathees and
it says act flag.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
It's in the shape of black.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
The black flag T shirt. I mean, I do think
it is an incredible.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
I have to say it's a very charming shirt.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
But it's a part of the problem and I cannot
recuse myself from it. I can't participate in this conversation
with the benefit. You know, the listeners don't know there's
no video, so.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Of course, well how was that they considering, Oh, you're
hitting my pressure books.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
That's the third rail, the fact that this episode has
no video.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Oh we are falling apart. The alarm is ringing, beepeep,
get out there. I'm about to be silenced.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Well we've already been visually.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Wait.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
I had something to say about that, and I completely forgot,
which is so iconic. Oh. The how we are feeling
towards a twenty four merch is so deeply confusing to
me because it almost I feel like it was cool
for a sub split second and now it's like people

(17:38):
are making fun of it. But also everyone owns it, right,
and I'm like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Well, because they give it out like hotcakes at every event,
to give it.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
Out like liquid death.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah yeah, literally.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well it makes me fearful. I feel like bad for
the people that bought it, because I'm like, you thought
you were like doing something cool and new, and then
so quickly it became a hack.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
But here's my thing with a twenty four merch, and
with a lot of that stuff, I sort of think
the point of it isn't for it to be worn.
It's like for it to be out there like for someone.
You see an instagram of it, you see someone making
fun of it, you see some celebrity wearing it at
a promotional event, and you're just like, Okay, good, it's there.
I feel safe. I can see this movie if there's
merch of it.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
I haven't ever purchased any A twenty four merch, but
I do like the idea of the beach towel. I
think about the beach towel every so often. I don't know,
I've never seen. I don't go to the beach, so
I would never see it. But I think if I
had it, I would I would use it as a
bathte I'd use it at my house.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Well, I'll let you in a little secret. Oh the
way you get those bath towels by going to one
of their summer outdoor screetings and then stealing it.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
No, I mean, I guess I'll go see another you
know thriller that makes me.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Think, Yeah, I see bow is afraid. I have an
insane thought. I want to pitch to the table. Yeah,
I think me thinks is back. Oh my god, okay,
me thinks me thinks is bad. It is ten forty

(19:15):
six am. And me thinks, Me thinks is back.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Where did that come from?

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I was thinking about shirts that go hard and like
dumb internet language.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Do you think interwebs is gonna come back?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah? I think wow. I think like the cheesy stuff
is like gonna be coming back in a big way.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, it's sort of the flip side of indie sleeves.
It's like Indie sleeves is like the too cool for
school people during that era, and the people that were
not too cool were like the interwebs.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Methinks yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
Guess what if any think production company?

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, the interwebs?

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Me thinks, yeah, it's actually a twenty four is in
house production company.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
It's back to two thousand and six. Babe. We can
do this, We can go back.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
I mean maybe we should add a Me thinks we should. Well, Okay,
the other day it came out of me, completely against
my will, and I was like, why did I say that?
And then I was getting drinks with dear friends and
it came out of their mouths and they're cool.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
What did they say? What context did they use?

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Me? We were just having a drink and they said
something about like something about summer, and methinks this is
going to be a good summer or something. And I
was like, wait a minute, two people do it.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
It's a drench No one flinched at the table.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
No, I mean we laughed and we were like and
then I proposed that Me Thinks is back.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Wow, New York is amazed.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
It's a center of culture.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
I mean, there is a point sort of as as
things become as the concept of irony like eats its
own tail. It's like things go from earnest to ironic
so fast that they basically just are born as ironic
to begin with.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, And you're like, I guess we will reach a
point where it's just like a sea of reference and
like it doesn't sort of matter which when you choose,
as long as you say a word.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, a word will be a reference to something I don't.
I mean, I I'm trying to think of how I
would use me Thinks. I know, I'm going to like
try to drop it into the episode at the perfect moment.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
It's not going to hit the.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Way, No, it's gonna it's gonna You have such a
great sense of that stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
I do think you, of all people, could be the
the thought leader to bring me thinks back into the mainstream.
Just say it in all your book From now on,
every time you do an interview, you have to say
every sentence with.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Me thinks I'm going to the Mark Twain House tomorrow.
I feel like you will be who Yeah, me thinks it.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Will Oh my god, it's already happening.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I can feel it kind of feels good. Yeah, yeah,
it does feel I mean because I feel like, well,
I thought about me thinks as like a like a
kind of a Fendora coded Sure, thinks the lady.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Of course you're like.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Another drink yeah type of thing.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
But that reminds me of I don't know, those aren't
the worst dates that I've been on with me.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
You've been on dates with me, thinks because this is
a uniquely like sort of straight coded woman experience that
we like don't know about it. It's like meeting these
kinds because these kinds of straight men don't have like
gay friends obviously, so it's like it's this secret world,
you know what I mean. Like sometimes you hear dating
stories from women, you meaning, like a gay guy hear

(22:34):
stories from women are like whoa like like in the movies,
like like there are guys like that and realize, yeah, yeah,
there are.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
They're out there and they don't have any friends that
will tell them that. It's like a confusing and disorienting
thing to do.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Do you ever, is it like a do you like
stop the date? If they're like that, are you like, well,
let's see where it goes.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
I've never stopped a date in my life because I'm
afraid and so, but no, I this one I'm thinking
of was like a guy I had a crush in
high school. Like it was like a date that was
like seven years in the making. I'd gotten out of college,
I'd gotten out of this horrible relationship, and I like
ran into him when I was visiting home and he

(23:15):
thinks that we should go on a little date one day,
and I was like so thrilled. That takes all my
friends from high school. And it turns out he was
a methinks type the whole time. He really wanted some
like foamy IPAs with me and to catch up. I
haven't seen him since, but he wore a fun little
hat man and he thinks I needed a second drink,

(23:36):
and he was right about that, and then I left.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Damn me.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Thinks the lady would like another glass of ale, some grog.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Can we bring that grog? Could? Is there a place
where we could get D and D language into everyday life?

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah? I mean then it's always tough.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's always tough when you circle around the gene field
of nerd culture. Yeah, you know what I mean, because
it's so loaded. It is because it is simultaneously the
underdog and what is dominating the entire entertainment industry at
any given.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Point, when you say something about it, you don't realize,
or when you say something negative about it, you're hurting
someone you love. You don't know.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Chris Hardware.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
I love Chris hard No, No, I don't care how
big his house is. I don't care how far they
put him into into Hurst mansion.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
I think the gay equivalent. I was recently at like
a gay campground where like I'd say, you know, there
were some lovely people there, but I do think the
humor level was lacking in sort of a similar way
where it was like I heard people like playing volleyball,
and I overheard them be like, oh, what should our
team name be? And then one of them goes, oh,

(24:58):
the sexy bitches, and then everyone that is amazing, and
it was like, that's we need to hold ourselves to
a higher standard.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
People can't tell about impressing the button that launches me
into outer space and it's not work.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
That also feels very two thousand and six.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
It's very sick. It's very like if you can put
it on a mug, you shouldn't say it out loud,
Like you need to to think bigger. And I understand
that we all come to this place to relax and
let our hair down, but and maybe it's a slow process.
You don't need to be there immediately, but like, next
time you're here, I need you to have a higher
level of you.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
We can do better than sexy bitches.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
I mean, how many master's degrees do you think we're
on that volleyball team?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Oh my god, at least too just.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
Absurd, just ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
People when they I understand people are trying to be
polite by like laughing at everything, but it really really
teaches the wrong lesson sometimes. Yeah, sometimes it's so powerful
to hold back that laugh.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Sam tag, you're railing against participation trophies in our culture.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
I can't help it. I'm so cranky. I'm gonna be
an absolute.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
You are, in fact the going off alarm has been wrong?
Do you think we should do our first segment and
then absolutely rush into talking about the topic aka the
book that is sponsoring this episode?

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, I think we should absolutely do the first segment.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Jamie Loftis two time guests, Jamie Loftis. Our first segment
is called straight Shooters, and in this segment we ask
you a series of rapid fire questions. We have to
choose one thing or another thing to test your familiarity
with and complicity in straight culture. And the one rule
is you can't ask any follow up questions about how
the game works, and if you do, we.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Will quite literally do verbal abuse to you.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
I really like that, Okay, I have no questions.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Sam okay, Jamie yes, sipping a cold brew or sucking
a hot dude.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Sucking a hot dude?

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Okay, Jamie eating a sloppy Joe or voting for sleepy
Joe eating.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
A sloppy Joe.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Okay. Paul McCartney's temporary Secretary or mgmt's oracular spectacular.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Good ooh, I think oracular spectacular. That's so embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Okay, Jamie strutting your stuff on the red carpet, or
saying that's enough at the farmer's.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Market, stretting my stuff with the red carpet. I don't Yeah,
I don't have the confidence to go to the farmer's market.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Okay, marrying your high school sweetheart, or burying your college
bachelor of arts and your parents'.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
Basement, burying my my bachelor.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Of arts for sure, Stacy's mom has got it going on.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Or our father who art in.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Heaven, our father who are in heaven. That's making a
comeback as well.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yes, very much. Religion so big right now, Pip Pip
Cheerio or criss cross Apple sauce.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm laughing already, Tgan, Tegan and Sarah or Reagan in Power.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
I'm gonna kill myself.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Oh my god, No, not again, not a yes, keep
doing that.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
We're too high up. We need to stop recording in.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
The Red Room. In the Red Room scan taken in.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Wow, that was really good.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
That was a really good performance in Power.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Damn, I think nine hundred and ninety nine doves.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, we rank you from one to one thousand doves.
I gotta agree that it's a nine to ninety nine situation.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
I'll take it. I'll take it.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
I actually find that that was a cleansing little segment.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
I mean, that's sort of a I have found the
point of that segment is like, no matter what directions
we are going in, you're completely unstructured. We can get
back on track. I do want to address one thing
you said, which is that the choices were between a
red carpet and a farmer's market. You chose red carpet
and said, I don't have the confidence to go to
a farmer's market.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
I would feel I would is there nothing there? I
feel like I have never been to a farmer's market.
I walked through them.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Sure, but once again, you're comparing it to a red carpet,
the most elite of spaces.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
You're like a red carpet, I feel at home.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
I would feel better because no one is like asking me.
No one would ask me a question. I don't know
the answer to that.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
I think they would. The red carpet is a stage,
and a farmer's market is like an interpersonal event. Like
I think the farmer's market you have to like you
are going, You're waiting in line at someone's stand, and
then you have to be like, what cheese do you have?
And if they're like I have these four cheeses and
I've never heard of them, I'm gonna be like, yeah,
I guess I don't like any of those.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Bye. Yeah. I hate small businesses.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Oh yeah, let's start there.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
And I hate people, you know, doing their best and
making it on their own, connecting with their community. It
stresses me out, No, but I like there. And then
if you're on a red carpet, I'm assuming you could also.
It's like not inappropriate to be like where should I go?

Speaker 4 (30:11):
Is it a lot?

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Like I feel like you can ask actual questions and
it's just like a good brain dead environment. Yeah, where
you just have to look okay and people will ask
you the easiest questions of your life and you don't
need to know about ingredients.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
A red carpet it's like costplaying sort of like feudalism,
Like it's like the worst of income inequality, capitalism, you
know whatever. Whereas the farmer's market is costplaying communism, and
it is telling that I would know what to do
more in the red carpet situation than in the farmer's market.

(30:48):
Like in the red car I'm like, I have seen
enough footage of red carpets I have. I can so easily,
like you, so easily look at it, and you're like, Okay,
those are the reporters, those are the stars.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
That's the carpet.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
That's where everyone's going. You know what's going on at
the farmer's market. It is true that you feel like
you might make a mistake, and also then the meta
part of that is like, and then you feel bad
that you are not that you don't know your place
within a communist state.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Yes, yes, and.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
It's I don't know. This is like I'm bringing my
own anxieties to the table, to the red room. But
I do feel like I fear judgment within the farmer's
market space. I don't like I think if I ask
the wrong question, someone will be deeply annoyed me.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Farmer's markets are like the record stores of food.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yes, totally, yes.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
I yeah, And I don't have the clothes, and it's
it's so hot outside and I don't know. I just
can't do it.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
I can't do it. All right, We'll see you on
the right carpet, on.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
The right carpet with your non locally sourced meats.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, it's just like munching on pursuoto on the red carpet,
corporate corporate.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Prosuo, pepperoni, wrapped cheese, or perhaps a hot dog. Oh
look at that.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh small business.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
So Jamie, you know it's funny. I was at your
I performed even you did. Yeah, well one could say that,
I could say if one was being literal, because I did.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
I I was.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
I performed at your big launch book launch, New York
book launch, because you've alread launched it in LA.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
It needs to be launching everything.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
It does, it does am I Hertford.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, yes, exactly clear Carver, But I want to I
was really raving about it to my living partner last
night because I was like, you know, he's a writer,
and you know, you tend to sort of go to
a lot of book events that are like you go
to like the ninety second Street y you go to
like a bookstore, and it's like the author in conversation
with I'll say it's someone with no screen presence, and

(33:00):
then you just like are seeing them talk like go
back and forth and back and forth. The author is
making some sort of like MFA references. Everyone in the
crowd literally has an MFA, so they're all like so true,
so true, and it's just sort of like, why hasn't
anyone hacked a way to make this form more enjoyable?

(33:20):
Then I go, I go to your event last night,
we're talking there is stand up comedy you are. You
had three costume changes, you brought up three different special
guests that were not comedians, that were each contributing something
different that had to do with hot dogs. There was
literally a point when you were interviewing one of the
guests where I teared up.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Wait, which the hot dog?

Speaker 4 (33:43):
He was amazing.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Jamie was interviewing this guy, what's his name. His name's
Dan Rossi, Dan Rossi, who is who has a hot
dog cart outside the met and was talking about how
he has been sued by basically every New York mayor,
starting with like Juliani and also by Donald Trump, and
he's like an every time I win, and he's like
probably like you know, seventy eight years old or.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Something, yeah, oh yeah, And then he did he had
I mean, he had a bar where he was like
and you have to like just keep fighting and like
follow your dreams and if you keep standing, you'll win.
And then everyone's like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
It was just cool.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
But it was just like I was like, Wow, just
put on a variety show if you want to save books.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
It's not that hard.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's not that hard.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
It's more fun and it's less like, I don't know,
it's like less work for me on stage totally.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
I can get breaks.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, yeah, so maybe think about that next time, Hanya Yannagahara.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Jamie, is it stressful for you to single handedly have
the book industry on your back?

Speaker 4 (34:45):
Yes, but I feel ready.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
No, I've been. I've I really like, I don't know,
it's like I've never worked within publishing before, and it's
really interesting to like putting these events together has been
so bizarre and fun because I'm just like, oh, oh,
I'm going to have this, like I'm gonna have some
stand ups on the show, and it's like.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
You've reinvented the wheel.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Hold on, you're doing what It's like, this happens every
day in your neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
In these same venues again, in.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
These same cavernous room there are stand ups doing a
little set, but like, in this way it is revolutionary
and I'm like, I would love to take credit for
the idea of shows we've been doing for a decade
and be like, and I'm kind of like changing the narrative.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
I'm changing the narrative around book. So I want to
know a little bit about Like I mean, I do
think we should get into how hot dogs are straight,
because of course that is I think such a complimentary
because I feel like, and I have not read the
book yet, that's okay, but based on what I know
about it and what you talked and the readings you

(35:51):
did last night, I feel like a big part of
it is like hot dogs are American, hot dogs are capitalism,
hot dogs are class war, hot dogs are inequality, and
I think potentially the missing link with all of it,
it's like the complimentary thing to every idea rais in
the book is where do they fall on the Kinsey scale.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
I feel like it's changing. I feel optimism. Now this
is where I need to talk about social justice as well.
Please is I think that things actually are changing, and
in the last fifteen twenty years, the hot dog has
grown increasingly queer. But that doesn't mean.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
That we're there exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
It just doesn't.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
No, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
There after I got that I got last night on stage,
like right before the show, I got an email from
my algebra.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Two teacher that was like, you guys talk often.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Haven't heard from him since tenth grade since he gave
me a C plus in his class. Oh my god,
yeah I did not. I was like, and he reached
out through my little website page and he said like, hey,
I saw that you released a book. I was your
teacher in tenth grade. I really think you should write

(37:06):
about math in your next book. I think it's really
important to get the message out, the message being math.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Lord, I've seen what you've done for hot dogs? Could
you do that al two?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Which is wild because he has to remember how bad
I was at it.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
That also makes you think like someone's so single minded.
It's like, Okay, if he had the energy to email
you that, that means that his entire day is basically
reaching out to various people and asking them to promote math.
You can't be the first on it, you know, it's
you know what I mean. I don't think this is
like the first time he's done this.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
I'm not an ideal candidate, Like, it doesn't really make
sense for him to have done it. But yeah, so
I was like, Wow, there's all these missing I thought
I hit every angle on the hot dog. Clearly I
missed the math totally. That's already been brought to my attention.
And now I didn't discuss the Kinsey scale.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Well you have to, you did, We should say. The
book is called Raw Dog, and it's sort of part
cultural history of the hot dog and part travelogue of
this road trip that you took in the summer of
twenty twenty one going around the country eating approximately seven
hot dogs a day. From what I just did, that's correct. Yeah,
you did have one thing.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Oh no, oh no, I didn't realize.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Yeah, yeah, quite a few, quite a few. Yeah your town.
Did that hurt or yeah it did. It didn't feel good,
and I feel like it did send me into sort
of like a I don't know, because it's like twenty
twenty one, so you're already sort of in a psychosis state.
But eating that much hot dogs certainly did not improve
the situation. And then people like will give you hot

(38:45):
dogs once they.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Find oh yeah, so it.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Those numbers can even go up. It was pretty gnarly.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, there was there reached a point where I just like,
I don't know, my brain would I was like sleeping
really hard, yeah, really hard, in a lot and the
rest of the day I was eating hot dogs and
taking notes about them and stuff.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, it's so crazy that the sort of the journey
of doing creating something that is about a topic is like, Okay,
you're like, you pick a topic you love or are
interested in, and you're like, great, So now I'm gonna
like sort of drive this to the ground. And the
goal is like by the end of it, inevitably you
will be so sick of it.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, but it didn't really happen.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
But it didn't happens.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
I mean, I was so excited last night. I mean,
I'm not necessarily thrilled to eat hot dogs at this
late stage, but I'm still excited about the hot dog
community and i've been so that is actually something I
was thinking about with professional eating in the hot dog
sphere specifically, because it's really like it's gotten worse over time.

(39:55):
And I was trying to confront noted hot dog eater
Crazy Legs.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
About this last night.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Who was one of the guests last night was a
professional eater.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Okay, yes, and that's his legal name, so I can't
tell you what his real name.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
That is his real name, But so I was.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Trying to sort of Grill Crazy Legs towards the end
of the show about sort of the gender politics of
the hot dog Eating Contest because it used to be
all genders and then they split it into a men's
contest and women's contest, and I was like, has anyone
ever challenged like that? Or have there are there like
non binary hot talg eaters? Are their queer hot dog eaters?
Like and they we don't know, we don't know, we

(40:31):
don't know, and like I've I've looked, there's like the
most I can find in terms of like, uh, pushing
back against these decisions. Uh, is the women's contest wants
to be back on ESPN and not ESPN three.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
Where they are now.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Whoa damn is ridiculous. It genuinely makes me upset. But
outside of that, I'm like, there's I don't I'm like, maybe,
I mean, there has to be queer hot dog or
maybe not, Like I don't know, I'm trying to trying
to learn more.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I mean I would like for there to be.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, but also listen.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
I'm opening the floor.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
You know what there is.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I can guarantee you some sort of Fourth of July
drag queen that is sort of faking doing a blue
job to.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
A hot dog.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
I have seen a hot dog eating contest with drag queens.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
Yeah now that now that Yeah, yeah, I have seen it.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
But I'm like, we gotta get we gotta get them
in the league.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
No, totally. The queering the hot dog, you know, it's
a dangerous. Uh, it's a dangerous process. Because here's my
here's my guess, not knowing much about this world, is
the more you queer the hot dog, the more you
sort of gentrify it. Like I when I imagine like, oh,
we're a queer owned hot dog vendor and they're called

(41:56):
justice dogs. Yeah, it's kind of it's look under that hood,
there's no justice to be found.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
It's kind of PORTLANDI a sketch at that point. Yes,
I see, it's almost Yeah, it's again to queer, it
would be to politicize it and to call it straight,
whereas right now it's almost like assumed straight but ignored,
like it's like.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Well it's so straight that it is not. It does
become almost camp like that. The visual of the hot
dog is inherently ridiculous and funny. Yeah, you know, it's
like because it's so American it's so ridiculous. It's so phallic,
like it would be so sort of like besides the

(42:37):
point for us to be like, Okay, why are hot
dogs straight? Well, first of all, they're fallic like, second
of all, they're unhealthy. Third of all, they're not vegan.
It's like, yeah, we know.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
I actually think one reason though that is a sort
of among that list. Yeah, so they're so easy to cook.
I think that is part of what makes us straight.
Oh totally.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
And it's like it's like that's why grilling is so straight,
because it's like, what if cooking was easy and men
could do it and look tough.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yeah, there's so many there, so much like straight dad
ness to like almost everyone I would talk to, they'd
be like, Oh, that's the food my dad would make me.
That's the food my dad would make me because you
couldn't make shit. Yeah, and you're like, oh, this is
the food that makes you love your dad's pad. You'd
be like, Wow, you really put in an effort that day.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I mean talk about Freudi and that the food dad's
make is like a giant.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, your dad's boiling up a bunch of cops with
the family and You're like, he's really doing his best.
He really is. Meanwhile, my mom is making sloppy Joe's
from scratch, slaughtering the cow outside yoursell. Yeah, and I'm
hating it second of it. Where's the fucking food?

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (43:40):
When I think back to, like how much of a
bitch I was about my mom's cooking when I was
a kid, and no part of it did not cross
my mind that it was I was being hurtful. I
mean this, you know obviously when I was young, No,
when I was like seventeen, but you know, it's like
you're I remember she would make this one like meat loaf,
and I would always very performatively like be like, well, it's.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Hard because you are at their mercy, so it's really
hard to be like have notes. Yeah, Like I even
remember like getting groceries and like when I would be
like I don't like this type of cookie, Like I
need you to stop getting me this. I'd rather have
nothing than have to eat this.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
Wow, howd it go over?

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Not great? It would always I would like be hurtful,
and I wouldn't be that bitchy. I was, you know,
not a thirty something gay man.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
But you haven't learned. Now you go back and you're
so bit and your mom cries.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
She cries, but she's also like, but honestly, work, Oh
my god.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, I don't know. I do. I wish that there
was more. There is more gay hot dog culture, totally.
I don't know. There's time, We've got time. I feel
like if and also, it just takes a champion. I
think I was trying to think if there was a
place I went to on the trip was owned by
not some.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Guy totally straight guy, or even if there are any
people you interacted with, whether they were customers or fans
or whatever, that were visibly queer.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
So the crowns at my show are very queer.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
And so I'm trying.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
I'm like, okay, this is this is the opportunity to
really And then last night, Crazy Legs Kanti gave the
whole crowd of like fucking two hundred people the the
location for the after party for the fourth of July
Hot Dot contest, as well as the password you give
it the door swordfish whoa. And so Crazy Legs Kanti

(45:41):
has invited the floodgates. That's and and to invite you know,
a heavily queer audience to see Joey Chestnut, and I
think we could really get some results. The place that
I'm thinking of that I am pretty sure was owned
by a queer couple. But it was in like deep Georgia,
so they were like it was ambiguous, but it was.

(46:04):
And they were so mean to me.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
They're hiding and they don't want you to expose them. Yeah,
here you're on a podcast outing them.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
I won't say where I was, but I'm pretty sure,
but I so. I went is early in the morning
and their specialty was this hot dog that was like
a breakfast hot dog, wet covered in beans. They they'd
been working together for many years. Uh, they lived together,
they run the business together, and that's all they have

(46:37):
to say about it. One they were in some sort
of argument when I got there about how one was
afraid of chickens growing up.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
This is two men now women.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, they were in some sort of performative argument, and
everyone was loving it. Apparently this happens a lot, and
everyone's loving it. One of them was wearing a big
dog T shirt like they're awesome, and they made me
like a pretty gnarly hot dog. It was like slap
the bun down on the and then you know, making no,
I appreciate this, making no, Like what am I trying

(47:12):
to say? Not trying to hide the fact that the
one was from a grocery store and was just out
of the bag, slaps it down right, pulls out, you know,
takes the tongs, takes the hot dog, can of beans,
can of hot beans, so the bread is essentially just
like liquid gluten at this point, and then you know,
puts it in front of me and I'm trying to

(47:34):
make conversation. I want to make contact. I want to
know more about them, and it's like, oh, am I
the first person to order a hot dog today? And
they couldn't have been meaner about it. They were like, no,
there's been people coming here since five in the morning
for this, and then turned around and walked away and
then like continue their argument about one woman's sphere of chickens.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Wow, I really liked it.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Sure, Yeah, the.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Most queer moment from your research was two closeted lesbians
pouring a can of beans. Yes, what would you say
were the straightest moments?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Oh, the straightest moments. There was a lot of I mean,
it's kind of hard to choose, I mean being it
depends on if you consider the Nathan's Contest camp, because
I feel like it does sort of so I wouldn't
even say that that's the straightest thing involved. I feel
like the straightest thing that was Like in New Mexico,

(48:32):
I was at this car park and it was a
guy who would run the place with his wife for
like forty years, and I ordered a hot dog and
instead of writing the order down, he instead complained that
no one wants to work anymore for like ten minutes
and then took my orders.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Classic.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
I'm addicted to that. I think it's so fun. Sorry,
I have a different story, but keep going.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
But also the concept of a car park that's such
a sort of straight. It's like take a park, you know, nature, beautiful,
butterflies car.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
And it is like it was whatever originally designed for
straight teenagers to finger each other football games.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
So it is, yeah, the car park setting.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Now it's been gentrified by straight hot dog ventures.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah, pretty straight setting. The car park.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Wow, when I was in Chicago, I used to live
in Chicago, and they're a real hot dog place. They're
obsessed with the stuff, And in that space, I felt
like it was almost able to become queer because it
was like part of it had like a specific ritual
and a specific little dance to it, and like like

(49:46):
if you know, you know, like it's got to be
like this, and everyone has like their favorite place, and
it was like this thing where even though they live
in Chicago and have live in Chicago forever, it's still
like fun to get the hot dog and that surprised me.
It felt very to their chosen family. Is that the
future of do you think that will spread? Do you
think there's a way like the hot dog could become

(50:09):
more integral, more beloved, more seen as like something valued
than something like accepted.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
I think so. But it's also it's like, yeah, it's
the fine line between because it's like cities like New
York and Chicago and La also underrated. La eats the
most hot dogs per capita of anyone in the country,
but we're not, you know, talking about it.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
That's crazy, it's.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
A shocking fact, but it is true. There's a lot
of hot dog places and a lot of hot dogs
in LA. I think that the because of the culture
of LA, it's downplayed. There's a lot of great hot dogs,
but like cities have hot dog infrastructure. But it's like,
if you're building hot dog infrastructure in a city, now,
it's going to be super gentrified, and it's like, well,

(50:59):
how do you how do you split the difference? I
don't know. I feel like you got to get like
places from like small businesses from like Chicago and New
York and even even Michigan. Let's go nuts and then
Ohio while we're at it, and get them to do
like small franchises. Yeah, and hopefully not like get out

(51:19):
of control, because there's a bunch of places. The thing
with la hot dog culture is that I'm talking too
much about hot No, No, it's the whole point is that,
like they there's a lot of gentrified ones downtown that
essentially like rip off Mexican hot dog recipes and then
sell them for fourteen.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Dollars, got it.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
So it's like, well, how do we get someone to
not do that. There's a place in Chicago I would
love to franchise called Fatso's Last Stand.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Oh my god, I love that so good. Well, it
definitely implied some drama.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yeah, yeah, he's holding on for your life.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
That's me against the music.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
I mean, Fatso is I regret to inform you dad.
Oh no, that's the way a few years ago.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
But he was like so funny and he people I
think they tried to cancel him. They tried to cancel
him for body shaming himself.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Wow, the woke mob, Oh my god, the woke.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Mob came for Fatso Fatso's last stand.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
He didn't even live through. It killed him.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
Cancel culture, but it's so good. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
And they have like yell those freaky Chicago rituals with
the hot dog where they're like, don't touch the counter
or like I like it and yelled at a little bit.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Hot Dog Culture is getting yelled at.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Yeah, well is it that place, the Wiener Wi Circle?

Speaker 2 (52:33):
It's like their whole deal.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
No one I went like last month and no one
yelled at me. They couldn't have been nicer.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Oh maybe under new management.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
I actually don't know about this.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Weird Circle is a place in Chicago that's like you
go there and people they yell at you and they
call you a bitch and you like order the dog
and they're like, here you go, you hungry bitch or whatever.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
That's a pretty campy hot Oh that's fun, that's queer.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
I mean, that's fully LGBT h is kink positive.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
It is.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
It's okay if you come, yeah exactly when.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
They yell at you. Yeah, but they're like the they
famously there's like this American there's.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
This life about it because there are there's also like
a complicated racial element because like it's in like a
white neighborhood, but it's like a lot of black employees,
and it's like, this is weird and potentially problematic. I see, I.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
See, I see they did I when I first learned
about because I didn't know anything about anything when I
started doing this, and when I learned about the WAIM circle,
they were only doing drive up and so it was
like drive up verbal abuse and it looks even more bizarre,
like in the space of the restaurant, you're like, this

(53:46):
is what happens here, Like everyone is like welcome to
have their criticism of it because it is like pretty bizarre.
But but taking it to the sidewalk was very strange.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Well, also, I mean, obviously it's always sort of heart
when employees are forced to do a gimmick as part
of their job, whether it's something as simple as like
wearing pieces of flair or like class resort like in
cold Stone, where they have to like sing every time
you tip them, things like that. But there is another
layer of weirdness when the thing they have to do

(54:17):
is berate the customers.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Yeah yeah, and then if and then the customers who
show up, if they're not berated, they're.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
Like me disappointed?

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Right, And what is that?

Speaker 4 (54:26):
I kind of I was, I was kind of reliefs.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Well did you go? I think it also gets more
mean because it's like a late night place too.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Yeah. I went at like three pm, and I think
that they were They're like, this.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
Is the nice shift. Yeah, this is where we just
want to get through.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
The shift after me. Yeah, yeah, I think it's late
at night. There was another There was another place. There's
this guy in Berkeley. The theme of the restaurant is
like seventies era libertarianism. It's that was a pretty straight space.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
Oh my god, it's such a stressful.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Intersect with hot dogs. So I read a book.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
He he doesn't know, but the way he added, and
it's so this is camp to me. Okay. On the menu,
the hot dogs are listed with tax included, but then
next to the tax they say how much of it
is tax, and then there's a little cartoon of a
hot dog slashing the tax with an axe and people,

(55:22):
and this guy is known for like punching customers in
the phone. Oh yeah, very libertarian, very libertarian of him. Yeah,
that was a pretty straight hot dogs damn.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Yeah, you barely made it out alive.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
I didn't realize the hot dog scene was so tense,
so so intense, and I didn't realize that it was
such a thriving subculture.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
It rocks and everyone is very much hanging by a thread.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Well, you know what I think, And let me know
if you if this rings true. It's like the hot
dog is, at the end of the day, is such
a simple thing. There are only so many things you
can do with it, so people, and yet it's so popular.
So if you are a small business owner selling hot dogs,
you have to find a way to differentiate yourself and
you can only do so much with the actual quality

(56:14):
and content of what you're selling. Yeah, and maybe that's
why there's so many gimmicks, rivalries like whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Do you think that is part of it?

Speaker 4 (56:21):
Yeah, I think it definitely is.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
And there's yeah, because it's sometimes like it's you can
have a really good hot dog.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
There are really good hot dogs, but.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
If you're running like a place that's like you want
low overhead, the hot dog can only be kind of
so good, and so you just have to find like
maybe you do it. There are places that do like
something weird to a hot dog. There's and there's places
where it flops hugely. There's this place in New Mexico
where they put spaghettios on the hot dog and you're
just like, what are we doing here? But yeah, it's

(56:49):
like you got to have you gotta have your little thing.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's so quintessentially American to just have
this like giant industry of people desperately doing things to
try to charge like seventy five cents more. And you
look into it, you look into it, and what's at
the core of it. It is a piece of the
most disgusting like plastic meat you have ever seen. And
it's like it's just like the rot at the core

(57:14):
of it all.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
It's all pain to get to.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Like, I mean, yeah, there's there's places where like the
gimmick is kids work here exact that's not a good gimmick,
that's an unethical gimmick.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
But that's people don't talk. People, don't you know, They're like,
I love the hot dogs.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yeah, wow, anything to make a splash, I guess. Yeah,
it's all about headlines these days in the hot dog business.
Used to be about quality dog. Now it's headlines. Damn wow.

Speaker 4 (57:43):
Do you ever eat hot dogs to either of the others?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I love hot I had two hot dogs last night.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Oh my gosh. Oh, because it's it was just Memorial Day. Yeah,
you have a preference. Wait, what are your what are
your makes?

Speaker 5 (57:53):
Well?

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I was thinking about this last night because you were
talking about how a lot of people are anti ketchup
and you sort of roll your eyes out like anyone
with such strong opinions about what not to put.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
And I'm not.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
I'm never gonna be like holding a sign that's like
I hate ketchup. But I am one of the people
that would prefer mustard relish maybe, which is I think
the classic New York style, as I learned from the
New York King last night, is mustard relish and a
little bit of onion. I would say that, and actually
I don't even need the onion because I go back
and forth with the onion, but definitely mustard and relish
is my preference.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
I'm I'm Chicago dog pilled. I love this stuff.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
It was it was the salad on the dog.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I do the salad on the dogs. There's just a
ton of stuff. There's like tomatoes, celery, spear, sport, peppers, salt,
and you know what else.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
I need a giant, sort of disgustingly phallic pickle on
the side as well. Oh, I like the taste of
a pickle when you're eating like a hamburger, a hot dog.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
I mean there's nothing like well this chocolate. Do they
put the pickle right on there?

Speaker 1 (58:55):
All right?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Well, anything just knock it off a little.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Well. I the Chicagotak was a real breakthrough for me
because I was a real plain hot dog guy. Like
I was like, I don't like condiments.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
I was Betty White type.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, I was a child and it really symbolizes for
me the growth from childhood to adult.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Ye kind of.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
I was like, Oh, when no one's like when my
parents are around, I like this stuff. Well, I have started.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
This is something I learned from my boyfriend as like
a you know, you have sort of things in your
repertoire that are quick dinners. When you don't want to cook,
whether it's truly like a frozen Trader Joe's dinner or
whatever else. And one of the things we now just
have in the freezer is sausages from I want to say.
They're called like Brooklyn Dogs or some weird some like

(59:46):
brand like that. And it's like it's filling you duel,
maybe a little side salad.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Put some mustard in there.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Nic, I mean, you got yourself a beautiful dinner.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
Oh that's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
You know what I hate?

Speaker 1 (59:57):
All right?

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Here she goes, Okay, okay when people are like, oh,
you know what we should do for dinner, like let's grill,
let's do burgers and dogs. But then someone's like, oh,
actually you don't be good burgers and brots. Like I'm like,
just do it normal, get the burgers and dogs. I
hate the like Brot as like like spitting on the

(01:00:20):
lower class. Like it's like, no, we're better than hot.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Dogs a little bigger.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Yeah. I couldn't get it. There was someone in line
last night who was like to put their hand meaningfully
on the book and was like, do you get into Brots?

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Valid question?

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
I was like I do not. That's a separate book. Brots,
that's out of my purview. That's like, that's it's like
a Wisconsin thing. That's Wisconsin vibes and I and I
and I honor it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
But I don't want to throw Brots on the grill.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Be serious. The serving size is all off.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I really think a hot I sort of think.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
I gotta say your book is coming out like at
the right time politically and social.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
That's an essential part of Biden era art. Yeah, quite frankly.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
Defining the Biden era period. How embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
You're a very Biden era artist. Yeah, your book is
giving me thinks.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
About the summer where the me Thanks returned.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
The me thinks movement, that me thinks.

Speaker 5 (01:01:26):
Oh I'm really gonna just like, oh the me thinks
movement thanks movement.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
You can't say, you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
You can't say that out here. Should we do our
final segment? Yes? I think we should. You know, it's crazy,
I had one million things I wanted to I have.
I can start describing it and you can you can
think about it, so Jamie, Yes, our final segment.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Our final segment is of course called shout Outs, and
in this segment we pay homage to the classic straight
tradition of radio shoutouts.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
You are at.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
TRL, you are at Z one hundred. You are calling
in to shout out to your boys and girls back home.
It is a radio shout out, and it can be
anything that's on your mind lately that you want to
promote out into the world.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
And I can, I can go.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I have Truly, it's like the most anti hot dog
thing I could possibly recommend. Are you ready?

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
I'm so ready? What's up, leasers?

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
I want to give a shout out to the Metropolitan
Operas Fridays under forty, which is when if you are
under forty you can get discount tickets to the opera.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
And that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
I saw a labbo app for fifty dollars. I have
to say, there is some you know, you think these
things are not for you, You think they're only for
the one percent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
But guess what, because the one percent is dying.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
They are making these tiny little doors that are for
people that are willing to sort of like go on
the Internet at a specific time and then press the
button and then and then pay fifty dollars for it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
And you got to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Take advantage of that stuff before they take it away
from us, Go to the MET website. Get a ticket
to Friday's Under forty. I had a real dream that
I would be sure moved by the opera that I
will cry. I was honestly pretty unmoved. However, I will
say that the sets were beautiful. At one point there
were there was a two floor a two story Parisian

(01:03:23):
market on stage, and a donkey came out and guess
a real donkey. Wow, it came out. It came out
just for literally the gag of a donkey being there.
It had no place in the plot, and everyone was like, gag, haha, yes, mama.
Then a horse came out, whoa, And that also was
there for only plit second what I'm telling you, And

(01:03:44):
I paid fifty dollars, So get out there, go to
the Met website and if you want to see it,
I have donkey on stage. Look up Friday's under forty
and see La Bom and you two can be like
Sharon moonstruck.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Really okay, I have one? What's up everyone around the globe.
I want to give a huge shout out to Shelter.
I recently went camping and I was in a tent
for two nights and let me tell you, this is
what no one tells you about a tent. It still

(01:04:17):
gets very cold in there. The outdoors is quite violent.
Even though it is beautiful, you are not comfortable at night.
This is a fact. During the days, I'd be like, wow,
camping so beautiful. At night, I'd be like, I don't
know if I will live through the night because it
is forty eight degrees. That was one of the hardest
things I've ever been through in my whole life. And

(01:04:37):
now I am back in buildings and I am loving it.
I am living my true, authentic self inside of an
apartment that is inside of a building, and I am
controlling the temperature, and I am laying in bed, and
I am plugging my phone in at whenever I feel
like it, and I have never been more myself and

(01:04:58):
I love society XXO. Wow wow. Yeah, it actually was tough.
I don't know if it ever gets warm at night.
I hate camping, but I hope it does because I
love the concept. But in practice, I was like, it
just is hostile out there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Yeah, what I ultimately want is glamping. But then you're like, Okay,
I'm gonna pay that bunch money. It genuinely feels stupid.
Just stay at a hotel.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
What are you doing? Yeah, you're like the mean family
and a goofy movie. Yeah you can't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Well, Jamie, whenever you're ready.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
All right, what's up, losers? I'd like to shout out
my pet rock coming back again. I was so thrilled
the other day. I've had a pet rock since two
double six. I love her. She's in my pocket right now.
I love my pet rock. I got it at a
baseball game due to my hometown baseball team being called
the Brockton Rocks. Are like, what should we do? Sell

(01:05:55):
rocks to the kids? They did?

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
I bought one.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
I loved it. I carried it around with me every day.
It kind of became my thing until I got a
back brace, and then I put it away because I
was like, that's too many weird things. We gotta put
her away for a couple of years. I took her
to Paris during my semester abroad. Wow, I thought I
lost her in Paris. She's gone for ten years, right,
and I thought she's never coming back. Eight years A

(01:06:20):
long time, A long time. I go home last summer.
My dad is like, my dad is like clearing out
our house has left a bunch of items on my
childhood dead low and fucking behold, there she is. I
lose my mind. We immediately begin traveling the country together again.
We're having a great time. I bring her to the
Magic Castle about a month and a half ago. Then

(01:06:42):
next morning can't find her. I was like, holy shit,
it's happened again. She's gone. There's no time I've been doing.
I'm back on the road without her. It crosses my mind,
but I'm like, I can't. I only found her when
I forgot, when all hope was lost, So I cannot devote,
I cannot look. I just need to let her come back. Right.

(01:07:05):
My book comes out last week. I'm asleep on the
couch because I'm leaving. The next morning, I hungover. I
wake up the next morning on the floor. There she
fucking is.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
So I just wanted to shout out her coming back again.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
It was a much shorter absence than eight years. It
was about two weeks. This time. She could leave at
any moment, and so I cherish every moment. And that's
why I'm so thrilled to be with the two of
you and my pet rock in New York.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Wow. Wow. Well that was amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
That was incredible, very much giving word you go. Burnadette.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Also, I hate when like a pet rock is better
traveled than I am. I know it's not fair, it's great.
Well should she should guess on the pod?

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
She should?

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
She's actually pretty chic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Oh is soil.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Really the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Wow? Well this has been an absolute delight. Thank you
for doing the podcast, and honestly, thank you for being
here in our most trying time. Yeah, we came in.
I've actually never been lower in my entire life than
at the beginning of this podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
I feel like you've really bounced back the content professional.
I know you to be well.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
I feel much better and I couldn't have done it
without you. I'm so relaxed.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
And thank you for saving the publishing industry.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Yeah, stand up.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
With Thank you for saving books. The written word has
never meant more than it does today. Thank you for
writing Raw Dog by Jamie Loftis.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Thank you for subjecting yourself to thousands of hot dogs,
not that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Man, I mean a good life fifty Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
That's a lot of hot dog.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
For the sake of your public and everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Listening, and go out and buy Raw Dog by.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Jamie Loftus, or even by the audio book which you
read yourself. I sure do, crazy all right, Okay, bye,
bye bye