"Moms and Boys" w/ EJ Marcus

Paging Doctor Freud! And wait, WHO is that again? Today, along with the hilarious and wise EJ Marcus, we use wedding antics between mothers and sons as a jumping-off point to talk about a variety of sick and twisted gender-based family dynamics that will have psychoanalysts everywhere saying "CHECK PLEASE!" Plus: Are we boys or girls? And is political hopelessness uniting the left? Well, it kind of was when we were recording, so that's what you're getting!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, This is George with a very quick little note,
which is to say, the episode you're about to hear
was recorded last week before Joe Biden dropped out, and
so we just want to really encourage you to disregard
anything we say about electoral politics throughout the course of
the episode.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
And while we're at it, you know, one amazing way
you can support democracy is by going to George Severis
dot com and buying tickets for the next leg of
my tour, which is going to be in Portland, San Francisco, Seattle, DC, Philadelphia,
and Boston starting next Saturday. You can find tickets at
George Severies dot com or in all my bios of all.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
The various social networking sites we're.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
All happily on. And with that, let me just say
God bless America and enjoy this episode.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
Podcast starts. Now, what's up everyone around the world. You
were listening to Stradio Lab George, how's it going?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
How is it going? You know, that's a great question.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I wasn't expecting that question, and.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
So you're not going to answer. You're just kinda gonna
I don't understand the.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Question, and I refuse to respond to I'm only speaking
in quotes from film and TV and music from now on.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Oh that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Can I tell you something. I recently responded to someone's
Instagram story, a gay man, I said, and I said hot,
and he responded t y, And in that moment I said,
this is exactly where I need to be.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Do you ever go on a spree of of sort of,
I guess quite frankly sorry to all listeners being horny,
and then you like are like messaging all these people,
and then suddenly when the fog lifts, you're like, what's
wrong with me?

Speaker 2 (02:06):
And when we say messaging sometimes it goes far. Yeah,
and the fog lifts, then you say, oh, there's no
way to bring the fog back. I don't have some
sort of Ghostbuster's machine to take the fog and bring
it back and hide behind it.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
I just have to be exposed. Yeah, now I'm seeing everything.
That is one of the more shameful things, because it
even when it transcends like the direct horniness and is
like there's just a neediness where it's like I just
need people to be into me right now. I know.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's actually so deeply embarrassing in a way, that's actually
kind of refreshing because I find that as I get older,
I think I figured things out enough that I don't
have as many opportunities to be embarrassed as I used
ju let's say, when I was like twenty three, twenty four.
Of course they still happen, I'm you know, obviously, But
when I think about the fact that, like when I

(02:58):
was in my early twenties, I would like regularly like
vomit from alcohol, Like that is not good, you know
what I mean, right right? Like I don't do that anymore. Yeah,
you know, I don't have these moments of just waking
up the next day and being like, oh god, I can't.
And so I actually think horniness is the one thing
that can really grab you by the balls.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yeah, it's you don't grow out of it, and nor
do I want to.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
I actually am Can I tell you something. I'm terrified
that I will, and that I have fee lessense of
urgency where I'm like, oh no, what if, like these
are my horny years and you know, in seven, eight,
nine years, I don't feel that way and I regret
not doing more.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
No, I actually have the exact same thing. I'm like,
what if I die. I'm like, what if I get
in a horrible car crash? And so that means I
need to be having sex Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, I drove my car into a fridge.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
Hi down cat, I Okay, I had a sort of
classic sitcom scenario happened recently. Tell me where I went
to because one, I'm so shocked when I'm around people
and they're like freely letting you look at their phone
and like opening their pictures and being like yeah, just
scroll around. I'm like, what are you talking about? How

(04:11):
I could never do this to anyone. You can't look
if you touched the screen, you will see me in
ways you never wanted to see you before. I will say.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
One of our dear friends, and I won't say who
it was, but he's a frequent guest on this podcast
and his name is Max. Whitter does have a like
screen a screen cover on his screen where you can't
look at it from other angles, which is something that
I used to have one year when I worked in
tech because there was like sensitive information on my computer screen.

(04:40):
And I'm like, wow, you are really taking this to
a professional level.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
No, I really actually need to do that. But I was.
I got a new laptop and I was like transferring
stuff over to it, and like had to do the
Apple The Apple lady had to do it for me,
and of course hastantly, like hell, countless underwear pictures. I'm
on the screen and she's like, I promise I'm not looking.
I promise, I'm not looking. And I was like, but

(05:05):
you are seeing, like you are being as respectible as
you possibly can. But I really have to. It was
a very shameful experience, and there's got to be a
better way.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
There's something so vintage about being ashamed essentially of your sexuality.
And you know, as much as of course I'm sex
positive and I don't want to feel ashamed of my sexuality,
you need it. It's sort of what everything is based on.
That's the groundwork for everything else. Like if we don't
have shame around sex, then we can't have democracy, we
can't have you know, global trade.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
No, there's got to be a tasteful level of shame
or else it's not sexy anymore. Yeah, but yeah, I
after that, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna like archive
all these pictures and not do this anymore. And then
within one week it's chock full again. It's just I
don't I can't stop.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
No, I mean I get it. This is you know,
it really is the summer too, Like it's it's too much,
it's vulgar, like I should not be we should not
be feeling this horny all the time.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, it's it's I mean, it's actually insane. I've said
it once, I'll say it a million times. It's insane
that people have office jobs myself included.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, and now myself included.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Yeah. And it's like, but wait, like the way that
horny just really does stop existing there, I'm sort of like, huh,
this was no, it does. This is like unhealthy in
a different way.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's the real Severance is just like literally Apple TV
series Severance. You forget what you do at work in
real life. You get into the elevator, suddenly you're like
like a Barbie down there, no enitalia.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
I mean it is like every Saturday, I'm like, oh
my god, I am I'm a full person. I have
I have once, I have desires, and then by Wednesday
I'm again like oh nope, I'm not. I'm Michelle.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
I love that. Should we welcome our guests?

Speaker 4 (06:58):
I think that would be a great idea. You know,
I do want to.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Let's do a preamble about him.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
I want to apologize up top, because no, I do
think you know, it's complicated to sort of talk about
being horny in front of a guest that let's be honest,
we you know, are getting to know.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
I'm not embarrassed. I want him to know how horny
I am.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Okay, Well, then without shame, please welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 5 (07:24):
E J.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
Marcus.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
Whoo god the intro of my dream.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
So where are you in terms of summer horniness?

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (07:35):
So, I mean thank you for asking. I Well, can
I just say that, actually what you guys are saying
earlier about the sort of like idea of like they're
being kind of like a it's like a taking time bomb,
like you might not be this horny forever. Yeah, I've
never thought about that in my life, and now I'm
now I'm worried.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Well, you know, you are a little bit younger than us.
You know, let's come right and say it. And I
think you know it comes for all of us. Although
I have to say in some ways I'm hornier now
than I was a few years ago.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
Yeah, well, I do feel like, if I can be
so bold, I do kind of feel like horniness is
something that and I guess, actually this is kind of beautiful,
Like I feel like it does kind of increase as
you feel more comfortable with your one hundred?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Is that so crazy?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
And I think the stereotype of your hornier when you're
younger is because for many people that that is when
they are their most confident. Yeah, but of course, you know,
as everyone knows. I one time read the term queer
temporality and never looked it up, right. I think it
means is that queer people have a different relationship to time.

(08:42):
So you know, maybe for straight people it's that you're
at your hornets when you're twenty two and then it
goes down, but if you're a gay guy, it can
go up and down, depending on really anything. Yeah, what's
playing in the multiplexes, when albums are coming out, what
podcasts you're listening to.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
What the current styles are.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, you know that's really true.

Speaker 5 (09:02):
That's really real, because it's like, yeah, no, definitely, I
mean sure, I was, you know, whatever, doing my thing
when I was like in my early early twenties. But
I'm like, I do feel like as like I get older,
it's kind of like you're like, wait, I'm just kind
of figuring myself out more and that's actually hot, so totally.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
I also I feel yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah, when you're like twenty two, I feel like it's
maybe more like there's like a maybe more chemical thing
where you're like it's like maybe more like sensitive or
something where you're like you like you see something and
you're like, ah, I'm crazy.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Now yeah you're like oh yeah, yeahally, oh good.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
But it just sort of changes I feel, and I'm
actually scared because I mean I'm kind of excited for
the future of like I'm like, where is this going
to go? Like this train is like completely out of
my hands, and I just sort of see like the stuff,
the stuff I'm getting up to nowadays, I'm like, I
don't expect for that.

Speaker 6 (10:03):
Nonny subscribed to the Patron.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
For more and so now like, what am I going
to be up to at like forty five that's going
to be so juicy?

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Well.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
I also think that there's I really feel like because
of COVID and not hitting like for you know, it
hit everyone at different ages and stages. But I do
feel like I think there will be a crazy, like
midlife crisis kind of vibe thing that happens for people
that it hit when they were in their twenties or so.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Absolutely right.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
Yeah, so I'm kind of imagining an extremely horny like
mid forty forties for myself.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
I think exciting. This is actually a really important question.
I'm really glad you brought it up, which is are
there two types of people, one being the pandemic made
me hornier, one being the pandemic made me less horny.
I sort of I think that might be a binary.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Oh interesting, this is interesting.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like some people were so fearal, you know, they were like,
it's they've been deprived for it for so long that
when it became okay to go out again, they were
like all I want to do is fuck. And then
some people maybe realized like, oh I don't need it
as much as I thought I did. And so it's
like you know when a dog is in a cage
and you open the cage and then and it still

(11:16):
stays there.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Oh yeah, totally.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
I mean I feel like for me, it was like
I feel like it's kind of happening in waves of
like I did the thing of falling in love with
my wonderful partner during the pandemic, and so now we
live together in what I would label domestic bliss.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
But also.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
We are young, and so I think that it's like
it kind of like at first it was like, oh.

Speaker 7 (11:45):
Like wow, how amazing to stay inside a lot, And
then now I kind of feel like we're far enough
out that it's like we're like, okay.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
What are we either like with sort of opening.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
This is crazy.

Speaker 5 (11:58):
We're like sort of opening things up, you know, like
it's kind of like, oh, yeah, you know, but yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
It's kind of I kind of feel like it's happening
in that in that way.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
And I actually think what you're describing is also very common.

Speaker 6 (12:13):
In fact, yeah, it feels like I think that makes
sense because you're like, yeah.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
You're like, well, there you have like safety and security.
There's also always something in the back of my mind
that's like, if the pandemic happens again tomorrow, lockdown again.
I'm like, how nice to think that we would just
like there's like a safety net of like hunkering dow.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
We know what to do. You're like, you know, you
wind next the can of chickpeas.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Now, like we got this like been there, done that
kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
Yeah. I actually one of the it's funny to talk
about pandemic again, I do think one of the weirdest
things about it is that now, like pre pandemic, when
I would hear about a disease, I'd be like, well,
that's never going to affect me, like totally, yeah, whatever,
like make up whatever you want, NBC and women really
democratized disease. Now I'm literally like, Okay, that's probably gonna happen,

(13:06):
like or like okay, if that happens, I'm like, okay,
what happens next? Right, Like, now people are talking about
bird flu, and in the past, i'd be like whatever,
grow up, Like these people just talk about telling themselves
stories in order to live. They're just making this enough
to be excited about something. And now I'm literally like, nope,
it's real, it's going to happen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Here's the thing though with Okay, here's the thing with
something that affects everyone is, of course it affects you
as well. But as soon as you start talking about
how it affects you specifically, you sound like a complete narcissist.
Of course, Also, how I feel about not to make
things serious, but I am genuinely terrified about electoral politics
right now, as we all are. But then when I

(13:46):
talk about it, I just sound like a crazed MSNBC
viewing gen X mom. But that is how I feel.
I agree with the moms.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, No, the moms are making good points.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
They have a lot of good It's so hard to
not have a unique opinion. It's one of the hardest
things literally on earth. It is like even being like,
you know, this is like when you complain about like capitalism,
and it's like but everyone complains about it, and it's like,
so we talked about this with data and it was
sort of like okay, so then it has no meaning anymore.
You sound like embarrassing. Yeah, there's got to be a

(14:21):
better way. How do you complain about something that everyone
complains about.

Speaker 5 (14:24):
I know, when there's like actually no hot take to have. Well, also,
like my biggest fear in the world is being a narcissist.
I think, Like, so then it's like which in and
of itself.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Trying having a podcast, Oh I will I No, it's
actually it's interesting like originality as like the ultimate goal
is maybe not correct because then you are sort of
in this capitalistic marketplace of ideas and everyone is trying

(14:54):
to like one up one another with hot takes, and
actually what we need is solidarity and more in the
positive sense group think of being like, Okay, well, if
we all band together, we can stop Trump.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay, wow, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Let's let's do it. Seriously, get out but actually do
get out there.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
I mean, I guess get out there, but I'm like,
what the hell is going on?

Speaker 2 (15:20):
I know, it's it's actually amazing, how you know. Often
in the past I have felt the divide between the
more center liberal people I know and the more leftist
progressive people I know. And I think everyone is coming
together in a really beautiful way, and we all have
a shared identity, which is helpless. And I've never felt
more connected to the broader left, like anyone left of center.

(15:41):
I'm like, you guys are my people?

Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah? No, I'm really like we're Everyone is so helpless
in the same way that I'm like, what's going to rise?
Like something's got to come up? Like now is actually
the perfect time for like something evil to happen and
for everyone to sort of be obsessed with it. You
know what, I mean like maybe in the religion or
girl it's happy name.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah you let's start believing and evil yeah in one No.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
Like even if my dad as being like Joe Biden's
to sup down like that is crazy. I know wild.

Speaker 5 (16:14):
I know my dad's like laughing at Joe Biden memes.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I'm like, oh my.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
God, like we've got to figure this out.

Speaker 5 (16:21):
This is wild bad.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
I think, first of all, everyone's laughing at Joe Biden memes.
Second of all, I would say what I wouldn't other times,
consider gallows humor that only some people appreciate. Now is
like the default. So on my family chat again, it's
like multiple people I know literally I talk to people
today whose parents sent them the meme that is vango

(16:45):
as Trump with the ears, Like that's like a pretty
sort of intense meme for you know, like centrist parent
to send.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
No totally.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
Yeah. Maybe in the past would be like it's never
okay to have a public you know, and now they're like, aha.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, we're all becoming like Edgelord Twitter figures circa twenty sixteen.
It's so bad.

Speaker 5 (17:11):
It's like, but I know that it's like very like
very hopeless place to like you know you can't even
you just kind of have to laugh.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
I need to be like super dark.

Speaker 5 (17:20):
It's like for a while, I was like calling my
reps like every day, you know, talking about stuff, and
now I'm just like they're not less.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
They don't you know, Like it's just like they don't care.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
I do.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
I do struggle with and I was as well, just
to be first in case anyone's listening. But I do
struggle with sometimes when people are like, call your rep.
Sound like I know my Rep and I actually know
his political views right, and I know that nothing I
say about foreign policy is gonna affect them.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, oh right, the whole
system is.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
By the way, I'm anyway for our first segment.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
No, I'm kind of a I mean, it's kind of
funny how it just like really beats any hopefulness out
of you.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
No, I'm and I almost feel like at least there
was There have been multiple moments over the past few
years where I feel hopeless but at the same time
fired up where I'm like I'm gonna get out there.
I'm gonna go to a protest, you know, Like I
feel like there is really a mass movement to say
and do things. And I have to say I mean,

(18:33):
I hate to say this, and I don't support it
or endorse it. I don't feel that way right now,
like no, And I don't think anyone I know does.
I think it is just a general helplessness.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
So our first segment is called straight Shooters, and in
this segment, we test your familiarity with and complicity and
straight culture by giving you a series of rapid fire
nonsensical questions where you have to choose this thing or
this other thing. And the one rule is you can't
ask any follow up questions about how the game works,
even if you're confused, and if you do, we will

(19:05):
commit political violence towards you.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Kill me.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Okay, all right, Sam, take it away.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Okay, I'm nervous. Okay, okay. Friends with benefits or men
with shaven pits, Oh, friends with benefits?

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Baby on board or eighty for.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
Brady, eighty for Brady, Okay, the marvelous Miss Maisel or
the magical mister Mistopheles.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Oh magical.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Posting a gift on Slack or smoking a spliff while
riding it bear back.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
Smoking a spliffh already.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Hear plenty of Fish in the Sea or Darren Chris
from the cast of Glee.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Oh, oh my god, Darren Chris, the cast of Lease.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Sam, yours are really good today?

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Okay, not my next name.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Baby Reindeer, baby Driver, baby Gronk, or baby boy. You
stay on my man film, my fantasies, common girl, dum me,
how you feel?

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Wow, I'm so.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Glad you saying the whole thing. I'm gonna go to
the last one.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, smart, Okay, a coupdata or u la la u
la la.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I love that, Okay, all right, having a brat summer
rewatching dumb and dummer training to become a drummer, being
Meryl Streep's daughter Grace Gummer, or being Meryl Streep's other daughter, Mamie.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Gummer, having a rat summer.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Stick with your guns, Stick with your guns.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
Wow, Wow Wow.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
We rank our guests performance on a scale of one
to one thousand dubs, and I have to.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
Say, I thought that was a really nice perform I
thought that was a beautiful performance. I'm gonna go eight
hundred and twenty seven dubs agreed. No, I'm actually going
to give some extra credit. I'm going to bring it
up to eight sixty. Wow. Okay, yeah that makes you
feel me?

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, really good.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah. I think I think you won me over with
choosing Brat Summer, because in some ways, it's like the
most obvious choice. You know, it's such a tired meme
at this point, and I was trying so hard to
be funny with the other ones.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
I was like, what's just really tired meme?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, I I'm the one who said it.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
No, I just mean you're being like really richy to
everyone who's ever posted about Brad summer.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Excuse me, I posted better all the time, including today.

Speaker 5 (21:36):
Right, and it is tired, but that doesn't mean it's
not present.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
But my point, it's like you didn't. First of all,
I think you sort of dumbed me a little bit
by being like, Okay, that's cute with the whole MAIMI
gummer thing, but fucking relax, like I'm going to go
with Brat Summer, which I appreciate it. Yeah, but the
other ones that do that, yeah, I'm like trying to
be funny and it's so desperate. Brat Summer is like
the main one.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I know. I was like rolling my eyes.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
I was like, obviously, I think it's It's kind of
what we were talking about earlier, where it's like, yes,
it's like maybe the more obvious take, and it's maybe
you want to have a hotter choice, But then you're like, no,
there's no need to be summer.

Speaker 5 (22:17):
Yeah right, it's like, are we not trying to build
a queer community every Yeah?

Speaker 4 (22:23):
You know what I will say for brat Summer is
that I actually don't hear the songs like in Out
and About very much. Oh.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
I've been hearing them.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
Like I want to dance to them, and no one's
ever playing them in a space that is dancy.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Mmm.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
I can't, I really can't.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
I have.

Speaker 5 (22:38):
I've been sort of under a rock because I was
sort of working. I was working away, so I didn't
really have a pride. I wasn't really out for pride.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Sure, I will say I hate to disagree, but I
have been hearing them near constantly.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Well, this is just the difference between New York and LA.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
I wasn't gonna say it.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
I had a experience where I was in San Francisco
and I was talking to my friend, a friend, very
good friend of mine then I went to college with,
and she was like we were like, oh, we're gonna
call an uber and she's like, oh, we should take
a Waimo. I was like, I don't know what that is.
And earlier in the evening I was talking about the
film Challengers, and she had never heard of that. And

(23:21):
so apparently Waimo is self driving cars that are being
tested in San Francisco, like self driving cabs like ubers
being tested San Francisco, and Challengers is, of course a
film directed by Luca Guadagnino, Okay, And I was like, Wow,
it's San Francisco to know about Waimo, and it's New
York to know about Challengers. That's my story.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
I feel like everyone knows about Challenge. Is it really
not a universal thing?

Speaker 2 (23:46):
I'm telling you ask her, leave La in New York
and ask around. You would be shocked.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
This is scary to me. I hate finding out when
our media landscape is fractured.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
I know, especially when it's like I'm like, well, the
whole world, It's like, oh god, great, I mean, now
I'm the problem.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
New York is unique, of course, but I do feel
New York, yeah, classically, but LA does feel like it's
just the Midwest. So I'm like, well, of course people
here in touch with the rest of the country, but it's.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Not so funny because I god, we're doing EJ to
catch you up. This podcast has become primarily about the
differences between New York and LA, and I don't.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Apologize for that.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
I mean, I love it. I think it's an interesting conversation.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Sorry for me. What I was going to say is
New York, to me, has a reputation. I understand that
LA is also very diverse, and I'm not denying that,
but to me, New York has this reputation of being
like this giant melting pot, whereas LA, like the identity
of an Angelino.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
Is so specific to me for something. Yeah, yeah, you
know what I was thinking about. You know what people
like people complain about LA and people that everyone here
works in entertainment. But then it's like there's people that
like move here after college and like don't work in entertainment,
They just like want to live here, and I'm like,
what the fuck is up with them?

Speaker 3 (25:04):
It's a really interesting I know.

Speaker 5 (25:05):
I was actually just talking to my friend about this
because they just moved here and it's for a lot
of reasons, but like in parts because like their sister's
husband is a doctor and he got placed here and like, yeah,
you know, like they're just gonna have a baby's They're like,
I want to be close by, and I'm so.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Like everyone in LA is an all comedian and they're like,
that's really.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Not what my sperience has been. I mean I used
to for my longest term X, who I dated for
six years, was from LA and their parents were both therapists,
and then all their friends, like when I would visit,
their friends were like lawyers and you know, business people.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Sometimes it's really humbling.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
It is humbling.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
I shouldn't say this about them specifically. I don't remember
they're friends that you know in particular, but I just mean, like,
generally speaking, what's really just orienting about LA is that
you'll meet doctors, lawyers, therapists, and despite the fact they
don't work in entertainment, they all have it like insane
botox h So you're sort of like, okay, so you

(26:04):
do kind of work in entertainment in the sense that
you are camera all times.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, the culture permeates its.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Did I tell you? I was like somebody was telling
me about skincare and I was like, I don't understand it.
I wish there was like someone you could go to
and they would just like tell you what to do,
and then amatoyrmatologists And I guess I always on a
dermatologist is like real doctors, and it's like, no, actually,
they're just there to sort of like make you look good.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I mean they also are they can treat like skin cancer.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
They're just there to make you look good. I think
that's kind of it.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
I do think. I I've always suspected that there's a
parallel school of dermatology where you don't like really go
to magical.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
Yeah there should be. Yeah. Also, okay, here's what I
the entertainment in La here. I figured it out because
I went to it. I went to a college where
it was like that's like there's a like a small
town and then there's the college and so like, as
the college student, like I felt, I was like, of
course everyone here is here because of this college. But

(27:05):
then it's like there's plenty of people that are not
part of the college at all. But I still felt
like I had more ownership over the town than the
people that were born and raised there because I'm like
the college's town. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Not to be so self indulgent and you know, our
own little community. But this is also how you feel
when you're in a writer's room and you think everyone's
going to be a stand up comedian and they're like, no,
we're professional screenwriter. I studied screenwriting and now I work
in screenwriting. I'm like, wait, so you didn't go to
open mics in Boston. I'm like, yeah, cheater, Yeah, did

(27:38):
you ever know?

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Like, well, I went to Harvard, So it's fine, exactly Like,
but have you ever been on stage with a mic?

Speaker 5 (27:46):
Right?

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, it's funny how I was like, I thought that
was a thirty rock joke. Oh they're still doing that?

Speaker 4 (27:53):
Oh my god. Yeah, e J.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
I would love it if you would sort of tell
us what straight topic you've brought, and maybe a little
bit about what you think is straight about it.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
So the straight topic that I've brought is sort of
one that I guess could be summarized by saying moms
and boys. And I think just to expand on that,
I would sort of specify by saying, it's like the
specific kind of relationship that mothers and sons have and
occupy in our society. Yes, in many ways, I think

(28:29):
it speaks for itself. What is straight about this? But
I will say, even though it feels like maybe a
part of like a sort of larger the dominant culture,
is always shocking to me when I experience the dynamics
that come with it, Like I'm always surprised that this
is something that we do and normalize.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, which is also how I feel about actually like
just straight couples. Like sometimes you'll see a straight couple
be so straight in a restaurant or something, oh my gosh,
and the guy will do have all the flaws that
straight men have, and the women will have all the
quirks that straight women have when responding.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
To you know what I mean, Like she is honest,
she is perfect.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, No, it's it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's like haven't you guys seen like Broad City or
something like.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Like right right, haven't you?

Speaker 5 (29:18):
Well, I know, we're like even just like like the
kind of thing of like I see like a guy
honestly opening like a car door for his girlfriend and
I'm like, and she likes it, And I'm like, wait,
you're not pissed.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
You he thinks you can't open the door.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
He's being condescending, like.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, him away from me, away from her, yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
I think what's so something that's confusing to me about
the moms and sons. Moms and boys, the sexual tension
goes both ways in ways that is confusing total because
the moms are often clearly attracted to the boys, and
then the boys also are looking today their mom and
it's kind of chicken or the egg situation. Who started this.

Speaker 5 (30:06):
Well, because I think the thing is is that the
boys are definitely looking to date their moms. But I
think that it's like it's coming from this place of
like like, okay, I'm not going to name names, but
when a friend of mine was getting married to, you know,
a straight relationship. She was getting married to her now husband,
his mom pulled her aside and was like, hey, like

(30:30):
she's like tears in her eyes, is like hi, like
this is her mother in law now, just so you know,
like when he gets this is like a last ditch. Also,
of course he's walking out, just you know, when.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
He gets sick. He really likes his super prepared in
this way.

Speaker 5 (30:44):
And was like giving her like this advice about like
how to care for him when he was like sick.
This is obviously needless to say a thirty year old
man and it's like there's this like thing of like
he's getting married, so you are mommy now, yes, which
I think we just accept too, Like it's like the
mom is like starting that of like, oh, you should

(31:04):
be attracted.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
To genius a mother figure.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
No, it's literally like you're absolutely right that it goes
both ways. Mom is girlfriend but also girlfriend is mom.

Speaker 5 (31:13):
Yeah, and sometimes girlfriends, sorry not to victim blame play
into that too.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Oh they love it, freaks. I'm like a sorry.

Speaker 4 (31:26):
Victims, blame all you want over here. You know, it's
so funny.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
This is actually a great way to teach maybe homophobic
or conservative men about spectrums beyond the binary. It's like
you can sell tell them, you know. It's like how
girlfriend and mom can be interchangeable and can and are
not exactly a binary. Sometimes you want your mom to
be your girlfriend, Sometimes you want your girlfriend to be
your mom. Sometimes they're both. Sometimes the girlfriend is more

(31:48):
of a mom and the mom sort of steps into
the more sexualized role. I think that could be an
interesting way to get them on board with like a
more fluid identity.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
I love that that's really it can change day to day,
like it might depend.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
On that yeah, and they're sort of like, oh, I
get it.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
Yeah, they're like I don't get They then pronounce and
then you're like, well, your girlfriend is sometimes mom and
they're like yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
They're like, oh no, I guess I want my mom
and breastfeed for my girlfriend.

Speaker 5 (32:18):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh my god, I'm voting for Joe Biden.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
I don't care what his mental state is. Yeah. Wow,
really this is good.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I should we should mention EJ. You know, your initial topic,
and we pushed you to make it broader, but your
initial topic was specifically the dynamics weddings between mothers and sons,
and because we recently did a wedding episode, we wanted
to make it broader. But I do want to give
you an opportunity maybe to talk a little bit more
about that. I mean, of course, we have the mother
sun Dance.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
Right right, Yeah, of course you have the mother Sundance,
which is that is something that I actually didn't really
even know existed for a while. Well, I mean, but
obviously there's.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
The you know, father flip side.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
But here's the thing with the flip side.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
The thing with the flip side is actually father daughter.
I get the whole stereotype of like daddy issues blah
blah blah. But father daughter dance is always like more
awkward than sexual, whereas mother son dance is literally sexual.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
I know, that is so true.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
That's a really good point. Like father daughter is like condescending.
It's like my little girl, right, like dowry dowry vibes.
And also it's like a little gross, like you're just
sort of like please wrap this up.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
Yeah, well maybe and apologies if this is maybe too whatever,
But like I also wonder it's like, you know, we
live in a patriarchy that sort of constantly infantilizes women.
So I also wonder if the father daughter dance not
being as openly sexual is because it's like, oh, kind of,

(33:53):
it's like that's like the culture that we live in
is sort of constantly like sexualizing young women, and you know,
so it's kind of like everyone's like, well, that's not
what's happening here. That's father daughter and then the mother's son.
There's a little bit more of like a openness because.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
It's like, well, that's not sexual because he's also a girlfriend, right, right,
it's a polyamorous relationship.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Oh, me and my mom were open.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah, we see other people and it's actually really really
she sees dad.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
And I see my girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Right, the thing you're saying about like the passing of
the torch of now you will be like this boy's mom,
I think first three people. That really is like almost
the point of a wedding is like literally to like
formalize the power change where it's like, no, now you
are first in command. My like I'm queen regent and

(34:43):
you're the actual queen or whatever. And it's like it's
so weird that that needs to be established, so literally,
I know, and it is like.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
It's like so normalized that I think to people, like
most people, it's not even like noteworthy that it's like
you know, like you're like moving in theory or moving
out of your parents' house or whatever. So it's like
the boy is like moving from literally being taken care
of by his actual mom to then moving into some
other woman's house who's assumed to be then cooking and

(35:14):
cleaning for him.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, like in the most limiteds.

Speaker 5 (35:16):
So it's just like people like I think a lot
of people would be like, oh well, I mean yeah,
like that's just what we do.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
Like, but to us it's like, wow, okay.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
But again, this always gets kind of complicated, and I
feel somewhat hypocritical sometimes because in many ways, I do
feel that my boyfriend is mom. You know, like, in
many ways, I was like I have taken on the
role of like, yeah, the boy, and I'm like messy
and dirty and like, you know, lived in an apartment

(35:56):
where we never clean the bathroom until we moved in together.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
This is interesting. I feel like my boyfriend is dad. Yeah,
like my friend his dad. And I find myself growing
into my mother more than my father. So in that sense,
I am mom, but not his mom's.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
You know what is real't found your son yet?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
No, I haven't found my son yet. I'm sure I'm
in love with my boyfriend, and I, you know, not
training for the world.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
He's not my son.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
No, no, And in that sense, for me, son and
boyfriend are a binary and in that way, I'm weirdly
more straight than a straight guy who wants to fuck
his mom. Well, this is being so traditional.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
This is why queer relationships.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
You need a third needed, a third that can be
at least my son and and potentially even his mom.
We actually need someone to fill that role.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, okay, so you're looking for that.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, so please get a touch.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
Looking for your son slash mom.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Third, that's me responding to gay guys Instagram stories with hot.
I'm like, that's the ultimate goal, and.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
I think that's easily conveyed and just hot, Like people
know what you're.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
Asking for for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
But to your point, Sam, it is it is difficult
in gay relationship to be like, wait, fuck, who is
the mom and who's the dad?

Speaker 5 (37:14):
Yeah, I mean this is one of my I love
asking gay people who is the boy and who's the girl?
Like it's my favorite thing in the world. And I like,
you know, it's like, okay, so in my relationship, I'm
a guy and my partner's non binary. So it's like
we really like it really freaks people out when we
label ourselves out.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Are you all have to say that?

Speaker 4 (37:34):
You know?

Speaker 5 (37:34):
But I am definitely the girl. And I know this
because for many reasons. The main one is that there
was this one time where we had a sort of
like keeping tom situation.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
It was kind of scary.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
It's like I was just kind of like looking in.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
Her window and it was kind of like, ah, like
don't do that, you know, Wait, like regularly or just
like he was there one time.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
It was like multiple times in one day.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Oh my god, you know it was actually I guess.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, okay, sorry.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
Expand on sort of that really specific situation, which was
that we were living on like a first floor apartment
and we heard it it was in like a courtyard.
To get to our little like back house, basically you
had to like walk through a yard and like through
multiple gates. So no one ever knocked on our door
because our door was like you know, you would have
to get.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Through the gates.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
So we heard a knock on our door just one
random afternoon, and we're like, that's really weird. No one
knocks on the door. We open the front door, no
one's there. We're like, okay, that's really strange. We both
turn around in the kitchen like the window facing this
like back alley.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
There's just a man and I screamed so loudly, like
I've never screamed that way, like right, no lit, I
mean well basically.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
Held out and my partner literally was like, don't worry, baby,
I got this immediately, like just like walks outside and goes, dude,
you're gonna have to go and meanwhile, I'm inside holding
the cat in the kitchen literally going a baby in here,
like I'm like cowering, and Rue's out there like escorting
this man like out the you know, just like yeah,

(39:11):
happened instantly, and I was like, oh, boy and girl.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
I mean, you know, regardless of what your gender is,
you can be son, daughter, mom, or dad.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
That's the thing.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
It's so interesting and like definitely, but I mean obviously
it's of course, the beauty of queerness is.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
That it's fluid. So I do drive everywhere right exactly.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
It's like, just because you were the girl in that
situation doesn't mean suddenly you know you have to do
all the cooking right.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
No, and I do not right and cognos I don't.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
Yeah, because I'm the boy. I feel when I get
to be like dad, I really feel so proud of
myself and like almost like won't stop talking about it,
like if I like Parallel Park properly, I'm like, look
at me, like I guess little boys all grown up? Huh.
I Wentlandry in two months, Like, I.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Don't worry, I'm providing for you.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, Well, honestly, you're still being sun because you're like
impressing mommy.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. Never mind, I
guess I fucking suck.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Hey, no, it's a.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Loser whatever, huh. I'm like, Okay, So moms, I like,
do we go all.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
The way back to birth? It's like because from because
there's also that it's like from the time a little
boy as a baby, it's like he's going tobe a heartbreaker.
You're going to drive the girls mad. Meanwhile, the mom
is like, you better not your mind.

Speaker 5 (40:49):
Yeah. Well, and then there's also this different kind of
thing because I feel like, you know, like when you're
socialized as like a young girl growing up, there is
a lot of like ideas about when you're left to
start dating. I guess they do this with boys too,
but like, you know, it's it's in this tone that's
very like, best keep her locked up in the house
before someone lays eyes on her whatever.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
I literally don't know.

Speaker 5 (41:11):
But but then it's like I feel like the attitude
with boys is more of that of like we can't
let him out or else he's gonna break too anything,
yes exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, it's like he's dangerous.

Speaker 5 (41:23):
You mean you should be teaching him consent, right, it's like, no, no,
that's too dangerous.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
He can't he can't learn that yet. No, no, no,
because little boy. So to be clear, we're not letting
him out because if we did, he would commit crimes.
But he's also mama's little boy and so innocent, and
we can't tell him about sex yet.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
Well, it's not his fault.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Nothing, nothing is his fault. That is one of the
primary qualities of being a son is that nothing is
your fault. It's true, and Mommy will take care of everything.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, when you're is when you're a child. Is being
sensitive always a euphemism for gay. I do feel like
I was because I wasn't. I was never like given
the heartbreaker treatment. I was sort of given the like,
well Sam's very sensitive.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Oh, they bent over backwards to give me the heartbreaker
treatment by being like, all his friends are girls, he
must like, they must fall in love with him.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
So they were like worried about the harm you were
going to call it.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Literally, they're like, wait, he's playing with barbies because he
loves manipulating women.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
So yeah, they're like, his girlfriends feel too safe around him.
A huge problem, I actually do.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
We don't talk enough about how when guys are gay
in like middle school and twisting of being like, no,
they love Britney Spears because she's hot, and it's like,
really not, why would that ever be the case? No.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
You know what sort of a shocking thing to me
is sometimes there are boys in middle school that truly
seem gay and then they just go through puberty and
become straight. And they're not closeted or any thing. Like
it's not like they're it just they just sort of
had a gay voice because it hadn't dropped, right.

Speaker 7 (43:05):
I know that one is really interesting. I wonder how
they like think about that period of.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Time totally, like and they're just like cold slurs and
like have a hard time and whatever they and then
they just like grow up and are straight.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
No. I have radical, radical empathy for the straight guys
that seemed gay. They got as much made fun of
for seeming gay, but really it didn't actually get the
sort of glory narrative of coming on the closet and
loving themselves.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Well, not only that, but if they are sensitive, nice guys,
of course they don't want to respond with like I'm
no faggot, So they're trying to both be socially conscious
and also correct the record.

Speaker 7 (43:41):
Yeah, that's a lot to deal with when you're what twelve.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yeah, they are are God's hardest working soldiers, God's toughest soldiers.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, strong, strong soldiers.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
They're in the military.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
In the military, I mean definitely, they're fighting.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, I mean they're straight. Yeah, that's the only way
they can prove they're real men. Yeah, by joining the military.
That's so true.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
That's how they beat the gay rumors is by joining
the military.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah, yes, beating the gay not beating the gay allegations.
I hear it used to be Sam's least favorite, like cliche,
like not beating the X allegation, But then I like
gasoled myself into loving it. Like now I think it's
the funniest.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
No, I can't stop saying it. It's it's actually so
funny now.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
I also wonder if there's I kind of feel like
the term metrosexual is making a comeback. I don't know
if you guys have focus.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Well, everything from the early two thousands is coming back
in this like weird, semi ironic but not ironic way,
and everyone's just like genuinely being problematic but being like
but it's funny and I'm.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Like, I can't talk about this all the time. Gender
is fully back, like gender oh absolutely again, like girl,
dinner boy, whatever, all of that stuff, generous, fully back.
Everyone is truly debating the differences between men and women.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Like the R word is on the horizon, like like.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
People, oh it's you. Oh oh that's been Yeah, yeah,
that's bad here.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
You know, with a lot of these things, it's first
as tragedy, then as farst. The R word was first.
You know, it's like, oh my god, these like really
offensive podcasters are saying it and now sudden you're like,
wait a minute, we're working at Deloitte and you're saying
the R.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
Word yeah, or like you know, twenty two year olds
on the trainer saying it and like what you guys
are saying. I also like and just to kind of
this was just coming up today when I was sort
of out and about white people are fully sagging their
pants again.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
One feels to me that one is like the one
that I'm like, wait that too.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
That feels crazy that one, Like it used to be
like don't use like uh like aave like being like yeah,
and now it's like no, fully, like the most popular
model on white model on TikTok only talks like that,
and it's.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Like this is so weird, Like it's really crazy.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
We have never been more confused about the concept of
cultural appropriation.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
No one knows.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Anymore what it is, what counts as cultural appropriation, whether
it's good or bad. Literally, there is no consensus.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
I know.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
I'm like, am I dumb or did it feel like
for a second we were almost there?

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Right?

Speaker 3 (46:16):
No?

Speaker 2 (46:16):
I know, but that's literally it's like how you could
convince yourself that the Obama presidency fixed things and it
did it? Like it's you just you can't get too comfortable.

Speaker 5 (46:26):
No, that is really wild, So I mean, and then
I guess it's kind of like that does I'm sure
that's empowering a sort of boy mom dynamic as well,
because definitely that is like on the rise, as well
as the sort of unapologetic like gendering of children. I guess,
like we're not really doing a gender neutral thing in
that way, but and it just makes sense with sort

(46:46):
of the rise of the past.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
I do also want to you know, of course, we
are almost an hour in and we have not even
mentioned the name freud, which, of course you know she
is an icon in.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
The legend and the original diva.

Speaker 5 (47:02):
Right.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
There is something almost like cheating about being like, oh,
I'm a sophisticated professor and I'm theorizing about how I
want to fuck my mom.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, okay, so you're still coming out on top because
you're so perceptive about the fact.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
That you know that, right and you can talk about it.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
Yeah. I think this again is like what we were
talking about before, where it's like something so common is
to be like, well, it's Freudian, it's freudy, and that
you want to fuck your parents or whatever totally and
then you're like but it's like you almost don't feel
the need to point it out. It's almost like how
everyone has like childhood trauma and they have to like

(47:47):
it's like, well, I have this anxiety because my parents
treated me this way at this time, and it's like
we actually have to we really have to say that
out loud. And it's like you, actually, we kind of
do have to say that out loud, right in a
way that's like come on, it's yeah. We have all
these conversations literally over and over until we die. And

(48:09):
it's kind of insane. Yeah, and not just that.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Everyone at every time you have one of those conversations,
everyone is at a different place in their life. So
what you think is like an equal to equal conversation
where you're being like, this is how I feel about
the concept of trauma. Yeah, the person you might be
talking to might be five years ahead of you or
five years before you, and you have no idea.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
Oh yeah, god, that's genius.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
That is really genius.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
When I first got to LA, there were like people
that I hung out with in like my first month
that I actually am like, I wish I hadn't hung
out with anyone because I was in such a like
weird emotional state that I think I was like genuinely
not being myself and kind of being so weird and
like for them, They're just like, well, that was a
bizarre hang and I'm like, like, I guess Sam is

(48:54):
just weird.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
And I'm like, no, that wasn't right, right, You're like
that was somebody else in my clothes.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
I swear to you know, it's so true, You're and
I feel this way very much. I just started a
new job and I feel I can feel myself being
the shy first week of work version of myself totally,
and I can't escape it. I'm not going to go
in guns of blazing and be like, hey, Dava like
to my body, yeah, but I will work up to that.
But I'm just like, you only get to make a

(49:20):
first impression once.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
That's the thing, first impression, Okay.

Speaker 5 (49:23):
I just had a similar kind of thing with being
on this job, where like I feel like I also
and this is just normal and human nature, but I
feel like whenever I'm like thrust into a new work environment,
especially when that's like kind of concentrated and it's going
to be over soon, like I'm like, I just need
to take a beat and hang back for a sec
to see what everyone's vibe is, and then I will
kind of be myself in it.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
But I'm not going to like run in and like
fight for the mic and be like, you.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Know, like I'm just by the way, that is not
a type of person you want to be.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (49:54):
I don't, I know, I'm like I think of that
as a strength because I'm like I don't want to like,
you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
I like to just like suss out the vibe.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
But then it was like it is so crazy when
like towards the end of this job, a couple people
made comments where they were like, it's crazy how like
sha you are in the beginning, And I'm like, no
one's ever called me shy in my entire life, but
that's so wild that like, now, that's like a good
like twenty percent of your interactions with me where me
being like kind of quiet. Yeah, it like really like

(50:24):
messes with your brain because you're like whoa, Like, so,
who the fuck was that that I was being?

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Oh, so you think you have a good idea of
who you are, and sometimes you notice yourself acting a
certain way and it's almost like an outer body experience
where you're like, oh, that's not how I actually am.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
No, totally, I know. I'm like I know myself and
it's like, actually.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yeah, why are you being boring? Sometimes I will catch
myself fully being like not to say that that's such
an exception, you know whatever, we all have it sometimes interesting,
But I'm saying like, sometimes I will be like I
know that if I was having a conversation with this
person me, I would find them deep uninteresting.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Oh totally totally.

Speaker 5 (51:02):
I'd be like, oh my god, wait, I left my
drink over like disappear into the crowd.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
I keep having this thing at my job because I
have to like produce the comedians and the guests that
come on, and like, when it's a friend, it's very easy,
but when it's someone I don't know at all, I go,
I like go in little loops in my head because
I'm like, okay, I want to be like polite and
like warm, but then I'm also like, but I don't
want to seem like I'm obsessed with them, I don't

(51:29):
care like and I also want to be like really
needy and be like like me too. And so I
do this thing, and I find myself being just sort
of like like landing in a place that I'm also
not happy with where I'm sort of being like, so
basically what you're gonna do like being over.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
It, which is like no, not that right, the worst
place to.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Land, no, I I yeah, oh god. This is how
like when I was first starting stand up, I was
so petrified of sounding like I was copying someone else
style that I adopted and I honestly still still think
I'm working through this. I adopted a sort of unintentional
kind of like monotone, non animated tone of voice when

(52:12):
I'm on stage, because I was like, I don't want
anyone to accuse me of like copying, you know, generally
literally just like everyone else.

Speaker 5 (52:24):
No, totally, because I mean that is and I think
also that's like a good I think that's good to
be like really conscious of that, because I think far
too often people are like just fully copying someone else's
tone and inflection sort of willing nilly.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
But it is definitely like a sort of paralyzing thing
where you're like you just can't think now, You're just
like that, yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:44):
Now you're just thinking about it so consciously, and you like,
like I've even been on stage and said something and
the moment I say it, I'm.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Like, oh, like no, no, so often and there's nothing
else you can there's nothing you can say about it.
Like sometimes it's just you know, you'll say, honestly, there's
even I feel like sometimes, you know, especially when we
all live in New York, like we know Pat very well,
and Pat has little patisms that like work their way

(53:12):
into your speech and then you'll say them on stage
and you're.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
Like, no, yeah, that's not my thank It's tough it's
hard not to hear. And when something is playful and fun,
it's like I want to try. Well.

Speaker 5 (53:28):
It's also like a really natural like in conversation and
in friendships, it is normal to start talking like everyone
does that, but it is just like hard when you're
sort of like making a career based.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Off of talking.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Well.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
And by the way, talk about gay versus straight all
for so long, for decades, all straight comedians sounded all
like post Luisy K. For instance, Everyone's kind of like
Luisy K post John Mulaney. So many people sound exactly
like John Wray and no one I mean, obviously you
know they're not a successful John Laney, but no one
is actually saying you're copying John mulaney.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Right, Well, that's how guys talk about That's.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Just how guys.

Speaker 4 (54:02):
Yeah. Yeah, Whereas anyone who's gay on stage is accused
of being generally at some point in their life. Yes,
thank you for saying that.

Speaker 6 (54:09):
That's actually so true. And by the way, he is
he's mother, Well, of course, I mean absolutely. I think
that's also why it's such an intense thing of like
I'm not no, I know.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
I know, I know it's true.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Okay, wait, I want. I do want to bring it
back to mothers and sons just so we can like
end on a mother and son note. I'm like, okay,
so baby boys, freud weddings.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Also okay, so you said something about how the mother
is passing the torch for the girlfriend to be the mother.
But there's also another element of that, which is, of
course the competition between mother and girlfriends.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
Well such, well, that's you hope for the passing of
the torch because that's a peaceful transition of power exactly.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Sometimes there is war first, and sometimes the war never ends. Yeah,
like that, I mean it is literally, that's like such
a huge part of the Siray culture is like the
wife and the mother in law being at odds with
each other constantly, and by the way, the husband and
his mother in law also being at odds because that
mother in law is like where do I fit in?

(55:17):
And sometimes she'll try to be mom and he'll be like,
you're not my mom or my girlfriend, so are you? Yeah,
He's like he can't. Here's what it is. The mother
in law is trying to be mom without being girlfriend,
and he is like, does not compute. He's like, I
don't want to fuck you.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Yeah, he's like, why are you trying to be alone
with me?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Like, like why did you bring me cookies?

Speaker 4 (55:41):
Do you want to find all?

Speaker 3 (55:42):
I'm not interested?

Speaker 4 (55:46):
Literally?

Speaker 5 (55:48):
Yeah, well that is also the competition thing is also
a wild Like that's another thing where I thought that
was in the movies only, and then you're like, no,
it's real. It's very real dating someone and you're like.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Oh my, it's so real. I also think there's something
that another maybe this is queer privilege, is that like
we've already sort of like been a mess for our parents,
and so they're sort of like we don't feel this
need to like perform perfection.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
That is such a good point, Sam, because I feel.

Speaker 4 (56:23):
Like, yeah, like my straight siblings do kind of have
to like live up to something and I'm like free
to do whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
No, it's true when you have when you have that
initial it's like the original sin of being gay, then
you are not only is a bit more forgiving, but weirdly,
especially if you're in a you know, maybe progressive family,
you're actually given more leeway and you are almost the favorite.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Oh I mean obviously, I mean if you're the favorite,
it's homophobic.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Homophobia because then the parents are like, on the one hand,
you know, he's our beautiful gay son, Thank god I
don't have to have sexual at tension with him. And
then on the other hand, they're like, he's been through
so much and guess what, some of it was our
fault because we weren't sablity but first yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
Right, yeah, no, it is kind of your being set
up for success and in a really kind of interesting way.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Yeah, do you think the only way to escape the
mother's son dynamic is to be gay?

Speaker 4 (57:25):
Yeah? I think so. I think yes, because it doesn't
transfer to like I don't have there's no like father thing.
It doesn't transfer.

Speaker 5 (57:32):
I will say, my dad has managed to make things
weird for me in a really interesting way, which is
that he.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Does love.

Speaker 5 (57:42):
He thinks that he's very similar to my partner, and
so that's kind of like his It's not quite the
mother it's like, but it's like a version of it,
where like RU will be like at home, like we'll
be like visiting my parents and they'll like, RU will
say something my Dad's like.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Sounds familiar, and I'm like that needs to stop. Well, yeah,
that's ut.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
Now I'm like, yeah, my mom does that too, But
with Misha, she's always like, oh, he's just like your dad,
And I'm like, no, I mean I I see what
you mean in like a really broad scene.

Speaker 5 (58:18):
Sure, but in the way that people are all humans
with experiences say that. I'm like, it doesn't we don't
have to, I mean, you know whatever. But so I
think the parents do find a way to make it
about them kind of no matter.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
What I guess would be my I do think it's
maybe it's it's also part of a way to be like,
see you do love me. Look your your partner is
me right?

Speaker 2 (58:42):
You're so right, Sam, Like maybe there's this sort of
subconscious betrayal that a mother feels when the sun comes
out and she's like, okay, so we're not fucking I
guess what can we like, how can we put the po.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
And it's like, okay, you are do you want to
find dad?

Speaker 3 (59:05):
You can't grow up and not want to fuck one
of us a little bit.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Oh God, it's so complicated, you know, it's son son.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
I mean, I'm like talking about this, I'm like, God,
I don't want kids.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
Yeah you can't. If my kids were ever like, hey,
you caused me some harm. I'd be like, no, that's
what somebody else like. I would not be able to
hear that. I would not be able to hear it
accept that. No. I know.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Sometimes I'm like, oh, you know, I'll have disagreement with
my parents, are like I'll almost like blame them for things,
and they'll be like, well, it's more complicated that and
I'm like, if if it were me, I would be
way more defensive. Oh, I would not accept a single
error I made.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
I know.

Speaker 5 (59:48):
I feel like I kind of feel like I would
be the version of a parent who's like my kid
says something's like kind of true that I did wrong,
and I'm just like start crying.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
Like the moment they're like, hey, like you know you
you like held affection in this way and it like
kind of made me feel weird. I'd be like, so
you hate me?

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Yeah, I think, okay, great, I will cancel all the holiday.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Plans because you don't to me, you don't have to
see me. I'm just your fucking dad.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Oh so I'm the worst mom ever. I guess totally totally.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
That would so be my text oday.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
It's it's unfortunately, it is so fun to be bad sometimes,
Like the idea of being a parent is like it's
more fun for me to think about being a bad
parent than being a good parent.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Yeah, because being a good parent it's like okay.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
Literally, it's like okay, I guess I'm voting for Joe
Biden and I'm like paying my taxes and whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
Yeah, because I'm like supporting you. However you need support
or something.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
It's like I want to be I'm still me. I
want to be bad, crazy damn. Yeah. It's so parents
aren't even allowed to be bad, unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
And then when they are by the way, like you
know in La and Brooklyn, you'll see sorry not to
I mean, it's so posy to say, but like you know,
I'm just saying often in like more uh sort of
like urban environments, parents will grasp onto their coolness way
past when maybe people in like more suburban or rural
areas will And I'm not even saying that as a

(01:01:14):
good thing. I'm honestly saying it as a pretty pathetic thing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
But it's like pretty tough.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Like going out and you're seeing a dad with a
stroller and he has like sleeve tattoos and alternative haircut
and like, you know, wide pants and you're like, okay,
so what are we doing here?

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:01:28):
Right right, It's like, so you're trying to look sexy again?

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Yeah, always Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
I saw a mom in Erewhon recently that had like
the most chic asymmetrical bang I've ever seen in my life,
and I was like, this is hard to maintain, Like
you are putting in a fuck ton of work to
keep this bang popping.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Yeah, something's up, Something's up.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
It's a complicated because I feel bad both sides of
this spectrum. I get sad at when people have kids
and are instantly like throwing out their youth and like
now I have no shred of that past that was
the old me. Now I'm just yeah, Now I'm just
this Yeah. And then I feel sad for the opposite too,
where it's like, well, I'm barely a dad. I'm also
I'm still you know, a very alternative.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I'm like, yes, and as someone I think Sam, you
and I both have parents that were like we're sacrificing
everything for the kids.

Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
As much as I wouldn't necessarily want to do that,
I would feel such guilt for maintaining any semblance of
a personality.

Speaker 5 (01:02:28):
Well, that's what our society kind of demands as of
you as a parent, is like, oh, you want to
be a parent, there goes your personhood.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Yeah, and then it's kind of like okay, okay, and
here here tying it all together.

Speaker 5 (01:02:43):
It's kind of like maybe because when a dad doesn't
do that, like when a dad's like, I'm gonna still
be cool and have my like rock star era or whatever. Yes,
it's like classic and really annoying because it's like, of
course you get to do that. But then it's like
a mom is like, okay, my kids are my whole
personhood and us Okay, Dad's off doing whatever he wants

(01:03:03):
to do.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Maybe that's why we end up with mom kind of
being in love with kid.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
Is that crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Wow is actually doing the opposite of rolling in his grave.
He's standing up and giving you a round of claws.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Yeah, so we literally need like universal childcare. And then
mom's will stop wine to fuck their kids in the
same way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
And like they want to fuck them because they're stuck
raising them, right because they're like out there, go to
the club, go to club night, and she.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Can't because that's what dad is doing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Dad is literally sipping at Tito's and soda. Dad is
in fact sort of being gig Eye codd wile them
wile the mom is sucking the sun that dad is
having a brat summer.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Literally Jesus Christ, my.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
God, American dream.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Right, Well, I think we really got somewhere. I really
think we got somewhere.

Speaker 4 (01:04:03):
I think we really really got somewhere. I think we're
gonna we'll do our final segment. Okay, yes, I love
that our final segment is called shout Outs, and in
this segment we shout out to anything that we are
enjoying in the grand straight tradition. So imagine that you
know you're in TRL and Times Square shouting out to

(01:04:25):
your squad back home, Z one hundred whatever, just about
anything that you like. I actually do have one, and
I actually feel silly for not having thought of it before.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Actually, so EJ. You know we always think of them
on the spot. I actually don't have one, So Sam,
you can you can go.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Okay, what is up? Freaks, losers and perverts. I want
to give a huge shout out to Tubu aka tote Low.
Depending on how committed you are just saying her name correctly,
I feel mixed on it, but I've started saying Toobelu
and I want to say, I'm loving this girl. I

(01:05:00):
have been listening to the EP ship it out of
the Summer What's called Heat, and I think it's so fun.
It's so obviously gay guye coded, but in a way
that's like, you know what, there's so many people that
are like this music is inspired by, like the gay clubs,
and this one it's like, no, no, no, this has
lived in like she has been there, and there's such
a subtle difference where there's a tastelessness to it that

(01:05:23):
is really tasteful. And I'm really addicted to it, and
I think I'm starting to even love her personality. I
think a stan is growing and I'm ready to dive
back into her past and be addicted to her. And
it's always amazing to find a new girl. Touvelu, I
support you, I love you, and I celebrate you. Thank

(01:05:44):
you for getting me through this horrific summer.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Xoxol, Sam who Wow, Okay, all right, I'm gonna I'm
gonna go. What's the cinephile out there. I want to
give a shout out to the film The Cook, The wife. No,
the cook, the thief, his wife, and her lover. I repeat,
the cook, the thief, his wife, and her lover. This film,

(01:06:09):
you know, it's not streaming anywhere. And I had heard
about it from many letterboxed adjacent friends of mine for
many years. They said, oh, it's a horny movie with Heleniir,
and I said, add it to the list. That woman
is taking her tits out every chance she gets. They said, okay, sure,
a horny movie with Helemir, and sure, I'll get to
it at some point. Cut to it's playing at one
of our local repertory theaters here in New York City.

(01:06:31):
I go last week. I had the time of my
damn life. It is like a baccanal. It's sort of
like it's set in this giant restaurant and Helen Mirren
plays the thief's wife. She goes there and every day
cheats on him in the bathroom with her lover while
the husband is having dinner. And then she's there for

(01:06:53):
like forty five minutes they have full penetrative sex, and
then she comes back and she's like, sorry, I took
a while. And then that happens over and over again,
and then the action r crescendos into like a really
amazing finale, and I don't know, are they making movies
like that out there? Is Emma Stone in a film
like that? I don't think so. So go out there,
support Helen Muirn and her gorgeous breasts and her acting

(01:07:15):
abilities and watch the fief his wife and her lover
not streaming anywhere, so look up showtimes, Wow, increble, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Okay, awesome, well, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (01:07:35):
And tapping back into the cinophile cinophile heads, I just
want to give a huge shout out to a movie
that I watched on a plane that I had never
seen before, Cold Dirty Dancing, a little film called Dirty
Dancing that I'd never seen.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
And the thing about this movie is that I went
into it and.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
I'm going to be honest, I didn't really understand the
Patrick Swayze thing.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Sorry, I respect it, but he has never done it
for me.

Speaker 5 (01:07:59):
Per After watching this movie, first of all, my life
was changed because there's a wonderful feminist undertone to it.
Second of all, I kind of get the Patrick's wady thing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:11):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:08:11):
It's still not like he's still not my favorite in
the world, but but I the lift, you know, it
is everything that everyone said that it was. So Yeah,
I would just highly recommend watching this movie if you
haven't already. Wow, it's like a hot take that it
is gorgeous and super sexy and that honestly it's gonna

(01:08:34):
make you want to dance. Oh sorry, but you should
give it a try because the dance moves they do
are things that I've never seen in my life, like
when they're all in the dance hall going crazy on
each other.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Have you guys see me?

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
Actually I've never seen seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I should Oh, I got you guys have to watch it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Okay, we're gonna watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Can I tell you an early memory of mine of
like knowing someone was gay? Was I was in a plane?

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
And this was back when you know, some of the
older folks in the audience might remember it used to
be that each chair didn't have its own screen, and
they would like program Actually know, each shir would have
its own screen, but you wouldn't have like your own
remote like they would. It would just be a movie
playing that everyone had to watch. So it was always like,
oh my god, what movies is going to be? Oh

(01:09:19):
my god, what movie is going to be? And so
I saw this flight attendant putting in a movie and
I was like, Oh, what movie is it? And he
goes dirty Dancing have Anna Nights and I was like,
you're gay.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
You're like wait a minute, like no, no, no, I
don't know what that is.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
I don't even I don't know what dirty dancing is
a nights. I'm pretty gay.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
Oh well, EJ, thanks so much for doing the pod.
This was a real treat.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
So much for having me.

Speaker 9 (01:09:50):
It was the best time ever podcast And now want more.
Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month,
discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com.
Slash Stradio lab and.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
For all our visual learners, free full length video episodes
are available on our YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Now get back to work.