"P!nk" w/ Daniel D'Addario

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who do who? Everybody? This is George with some show announcements.
If you are in New York, Philly, or Boston, you
have a few more chances to see the hour of
stand up that I have been touring on and off
for the last year and a half. This will be
the last time I do this material before I tape
it in April, so I would love to see some
of you there. I'll be workshopping some of it and

(00:21):
reworking some other parts and standing out the rough edges.
It'll be really fun. So if you are in New York,
I'll be at Union Hall on March fifth and sixth,
and then I'll be at Joe's Pub on Monday, March
twenty fourth. And if you're in Philly, I'll be at
Philamocha March twelfth. And if you're in Boston in the
Boston area, I'll be in Summerville at the Rockwell on
March twentieth. There is an early show at seven and

(00:42):
a late show at nine. I have had such a
great time touring this hour over the last few months.
Thank you to everyone that has already come. Like I said,
will be the last time I do it, and then
I can't wait to write new stuff and I can't
wait to tour again. And that's pretty much it. You
can find tickets at link dot com, slash George Savers

(01:02):
and it's in my Instagram, bio and everywhere else where
you might think it will be. And that is it
for me. Enjoy the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Love You podcast starts now. Abracadabra and unan nah Hello and.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Wait, what is what is the aora?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
George? You can't ask what the real lyrics are? Sorry
you are? That is like the whole point is that
you can make it up and it's your own.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah. Well, okay, so I will say I agree with that. However,
then when I was tasked with doing that, when we
were at that party, I actually struggled to mouth anything.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, I think okay. First of all, George and I
went to a party in Los Angeles, California's.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
We went to a party in Los Angeles, California. That
was it was announced ahead of time that at midnight
they would play Abercadabra, So we all knew that at
midnight they would be pressing play on Abercadabra. And you know,
you have to you had to sort of plan where
you wanted to be so that you could be in
an ideal place to be open to that.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, I really loved the New Year's energy of that,
and there was like this sort of this anxiety in
a positive way, sort of an excitement in the air
of like, what are we going to be? Like, well,
I can't go to the bathroom because it's ten minutes
till midnight.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well you are. What you're not saying is that we
were quite literally in line to get drinks and decided
to leave the line that we were already in because
we were like, this line is too long. We can't
be sort of third in line yelling tequila soda while
they are personal plan on abercadabra. But it did make
me realize I'm now thinking, why not instill that kind

(02:56):
of New Year's energy into just whatever you want, even
if it's not at midnight, Like I know, you know,
there are people have all different kinds of schedules, even
if you just have a dinner party and you're like,
by the way, at nine pm, we will you know,
play a Tory Amos music video on YouTube that we
will project. I actually think it is such a great
idea and.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
It gives people sort of a clear like it's like
an outline of the night, Like it gives you a
framework to work within because it's so amorphous. If it's
just like avercaever will play at some point, it's like, well, yeah,
I would hope so yeah. But if it's at midnight,
I'm like, okay, now my night. It has a structure
to it.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, And I what I'm about to say, I think
will almost sound against the spirit of this podcast, but uh, okay,
here's the thing. You would think, like the Gregorian calendar
and like time, clock based time would be something you
or I would consider straight. I think that would be
I could easily imagine, you know, an AI generated episode

(03:55):
where our straight topic is clocks and clock based time,
and we're like, oh well yeah, straight people love to
organize time, whereas queer people love to live out why yeah, okay, yeah,
so I get it.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
First of all, I want that give me the AI
version of our podcast. To be clear, I'm ready to retire,
and I give away my rights. I give away my voice.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Literally, I'm ready and consider this. I'm posting, Mark Zuckerberg.
I give you my right, the rights to my voice
and likeness.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Take in the in the in the tone of take
my wife, take my data.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Take my data. So so, but I'm about to make
the opposite point, which is I think because of the
absolutely declining, if not non existent, trust in institutions, it's
like it's almost like time is all we have. Yeah,
the government doesn't work. Any official buildings you're seeing on
the streets you go in, it's literally someone doing ketamine.

(04:47):
Nothing is working right now, and no one has trusted
in any institutions, be it you know, the government, the media,
what have you. So I'm almost like a re embrace
of time, of linear time is in its own way countercultural.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Right now you're saying the time is the ultimate truth
and that like kind of yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
And so I'm like, let's like, rather than have it
be this like the ethos of like, oh well the
invite is at nine, but of course you want to
be fashionably late, maybe we try out what if we
went in a more militaristic direction, What if we really
like adhere to the clock.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
See, I actually love that, and I think socially we
need that. I want to push there's something in our
lives where it's like we're basically like building in a
buffer for trailers for every event in our lives. Like
it's like, well, there's gonna be forty five minutes of trailers,
so we can be thirty minutes late.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Let's have first of all, a standing ovation for that.
That is one of the most genius things I've ever heard.
Keep going.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I'm like, I'm sort of like enough, like I actually
want someone to be like the parties at eight, get
there at eight. I went to actually a party thrown
by the same bad that through this abacadabra party. It
was his his boyfriend's fortieth and he was like, arrive
promptly at eight, and I was like, now that is
a fun invite. And it worked because everyone was there
with it. By eight fifteen. Everyone was there, and I

(06:11):
was like, yeah, you're paying for the space, like let's
get there on time fully enjoy it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
It's tough. It's tough because even as we're as we're
making this argument, I'm like stressed because I'm like, well,
I don't want to I don't want to be advocating
for a world in which I can be a little late.
And the trailer thing is actually a perfect a perfect
metaphor because here's the thing. On the one side, you
have regal, regal cinemas. The trailers are quite literally twenty

(06:38):
five to thirty sence, you can actually show up an
hour after the start time of the film and you'll
get there at the credits, but then you'll have like
an actually our guest will be able to really fact
check me on this. But there are other theaters like
that that are I want to it's not the Angelica,
but there are other theaters that quite literally start on
time with no trailers, and they play the trailers before

(06:59):
the start yeah, which I also don't think is accepting.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
I think the perfect middle is sort of like like
I think if you go to film for them, it's
like they'll have like a few trailers, it'll be like
seven minutes, and then the movie starts ten to fifteen minutes.
How do you mandate that? Because that is basically what
it is to be fashionably late. Yes, I agree, I'm
all in, but of course sorry, oh I'm almost done.
But of course, to have a common conception of fashionably late,

(07:24):
you need to have a common language, and in a
world where no one trusts institutions, there you could never
actually have a commonly agreed upon definition of fashionably late,
which is why in order to avoid everything, just like
going to dust, you have to insist upon a specific
start time. Oh you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Of course this is I mean, you made a really
amazing point. And I also want to say I would
love when you are about to make a point and
you go sorry, I'm almost done. There's something about that
that's really charming, where it's like yeah, thank you you
Like it's like a you can't not make the point,
Like if someone were to stop you right then, you
would like potentially have a stroke or something.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
It's sort of the blue balls.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
The blue balls of ideas. Yeah, like I sort of
have to Yeah, you're like, fuck, I have to have
an idea. Can we address an elephant in the room
before bringing our guests in?

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Okay, what is it?

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I kind of have a cold? What I have, like
the slightest cold.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Like have you noticed how I'm raspy?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yes? And I was actually, you're actually stealing my thunder
a bit. I was like, God, I'm gonna be so
like the sick one and like you're gonna be like
it's everyone's gonna be like wow. He sounds so different
than normal. Normally, his voice is so deeply smooth.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
While I almost suggested booking a studio last minute because
I was sort of like in the mood to not
have to deal with tech, And then I was like,
what if I'm the one to suggests booking a studio,
I show up with our guest, I'm literally coffee. It's
it's like I'm a directly giving him, you know, coming
directly from the open air market. I do have a
guess as to what happened, which is that we both

(08:57):
got sick at the Abracadabra party. Just time wise, I
think that maybe makes sense that we were in a
very enclosed, non non ventilated space.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
That's actually such a great point. That's fully what happened.
We need to bring in our guest. I think that's
an amazing because.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
I now have blue balls for bringing in our guest.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yes, I think we should bring in our guest, who
you know, we're famously bad at plugging things. But did
it in fact write a book that by the time
this episode comes out will be available for.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Will be out and it is called The Talent and
it is by Dan Dodario, who is our guest.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Welcome Dan, Hi, guys, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
I want to say and listen, I'll say it. This
is a controversial thing to open up about.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
This is very controversial. I can already tell you this
is the first time. Oh, I can't believe you're saying it.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
I'm actually as guilty of this as you are.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
So we're very guilty.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
We're both guilty. This is the first time we have
had a guest on promoting a book where we have
both at the time of recording, finished the book. And
by the way, I don't want to at every other
point we had like red part or mostly dry, or
we always or read like multiple reviews, like I'm not
going in unprepared. But but this is the first time

(10:12):
each of us has read cover to cover and we
can like, we're not going to spoil anything, but we.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Could if we want, absolutely if we wanted to.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
I'm like, the fate of my book is in your
guys's hands. You cannot tell them who wins at the end.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
I know, and I know I was about to I
was about to spoil. Well, well, I'll say this about
the book.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
How do I put this?

Speaker 1 (10:32):
It's the perfect like you actually do give closure, is
what I'm saying, Because the entire time I was afraid
as I was reading it, which, by the way, I
enjoyed it immensely. As I was reading it, I was like,
if he fucks this up, I'm gonna be so fucking pissed.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I have to agree. There was like one moment, like
you know, three fourths through and I was like, oh no,
what if it's not satisfying, Like I was like, I'm i'm,
I'm I care now, and what if I don't get
what if I don't get to blow my load?

Speaker 1 (11:01):
And by the way, it's sorry, Dan, I know we
keep it by interrupting you. But it's like, if you
had ended it in a way more open ended way,
I would have had to pretend that was actually like
so cool, because I would have had to like want
I would have wanted to seem sophisticated, and I would
have been like, you know, thank God, like you you didn't, like,
you know, go so cliche and have a real ending.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
And I was planning it, yes and never apologize for
interrupting me with such wonderful praise.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
Wow, Damn.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
When I was writing it, I have this like devil
on my shoulder being like, go Emma, climb the guest mode,
Go Emma climb the guest mode because spoiling a three
year old book that I love. But at the end
of that book, do you think there's going to be
a resolution? And it's just kind of like, well, and
then something happened. I don't want to say what at
the end.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
And yeah, I thought part of me did think maybe
it would be so about the journey, not the.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
Destination, to paraphrase and reverse the brutalist, to have it
be like.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
It doesn't even matter who wins, who cares.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
We're kind of putting the car before the horse because
it's about a fake awards race. And I think what
you're saying is you feel very satisfied by finding out
who wins at the end, which I'm happy about.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes, and someone does win, so it is And do
you want to sorry to be so conventional and so
Barbara Walters, but would you like to just explain what
the book is about.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
Sure, it's about five women who are nominated for an
award during award season and the rivalries and friendships that
develop between them as they kind of.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Battle it out.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Good, Thanks, So I read it. I studied it really hard.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Dan read it to actually to cover room what I
want to say, actually is I think because the kind
of cliche of the Oscars are an award season is
like quote unquote, it's an honor just to be nominated.
I actually do think you're subverting that by having a
clear winner. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's actually
like more subversive to have. I think it would have

(13:01):
been a cop out to be like it doesn't matter
who wins, because it's like, well, that's what they want
you to think, but it actually does.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Right, It actually does a lot, and those who win
are really happy and those who lose are really sad.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah. I also want to say, since you mentioned the
guest when people don't give you an ending, I'm like, like,
you know, my ass got on to Google the moment
I finished that book and said the guest ending explained like,
I'm like, what the hell was that?

Speaker 4 (13:23):
And you probably found like the worst articles in the
world because everyone thinks that she died and became a ghost.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, it's not
the ghost. Yeah, it's the guest.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yes, exactly, you're misreading the title. You've got three of
the right letters, but two are wrong talking about.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
The street shooters.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
I actually I want to say I love the ending
of The Guests well, and then I found out. I
found out that I'm in the minority and all these
people don't like it.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
I love it for the guest it would have been
wrong for my book. But I actually adore it, and
I think people who don't like it, sorry Sam.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Are wrong.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Wow, unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
You know, sometimes I can be a little stupid when
it comes to plot plot I'll say a plot based
film even And I didn't understand part of the ending
of Inside Man, which I rewatched for the second time
and still didn't understand it recently, and I was trying
to find an article that explained it, and literally no
one could fully give me what I wanted.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
I find that so surprising.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
I agree. I mean, I get that he was inside
I'm not an idiot, but.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Like there was called Inside Man.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
There was one scene with Jodie Foster that I was like,
unclear what deal was being made with her and with
the politician she was working with, who I think was
a mayor, and I was like, can someone just explain
this to me? And no one could. Sorry, Collider dot Com,
I think.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Got an infinite timeline. You will get that article because
like every movie that's on streaming now. I was on
the People magazine website the other day just my my
daily spin, and one of the most recent articles was
what happens at the end of Shutter Island Explained, and
I was like.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
All right, well, okay, I got that.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
I I think it must just on Netflix or something.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
But yeah, no, it's like, okay, it's like someone in
the Seo farm will write that article for you.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Eventually.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, enough AI takes over, You'll get that article.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
A I take so bad.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, it's funny to have read the book because part
of me is like, I'm like, okay, quiz me, quiz.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
You about what happens.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
We want to test me, we want credit test reading
the book.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, I read.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Instead of using it to actually have a productive conversation
with you. We're just like proud of ourselves reading.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
I'm proud of you.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Both too, especially because I know you guys are major readers.
So it's not like, oh, you went out of your
way to read it. It's more like you took time
away from like the Joan Didions of the world exactly.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
We're just exactly and talk about women that are telling
themselves stories in order to live. By the way, oh
story stopped, they would decease.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
I did find it fun to know you personally and
read your book as like as a peek in. I
love when you're like sort of you be like a bitch,
Like I love to see you be a bitch through
like through this world, like thank you. Like there was
one character that, like the SNL sort of scenes, I

(16:10):
found really funny as a peek into your perspective funny.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
I was curious what you guys would make of that
scene in particular, basically not to do the whole synopsis,
but one of the women goes on an SNL style
show and gets led astray and it goes really.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Wrong, and yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
It was all about kind of taking a situation that
could happen and heightening it. I don't really think that
would happen in that way, but it was kind of
funny to toy with.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
I mean, I could definitely see someone you know who
wants to like be in on the joke and who's
just like is saying yes to everything and is excited
about like being on SNL suddenly doing something that is
perceived as super offensive to someone else.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
It kind of came to mind because when Jennifer Lawrence
was nominated for an Oscar, which is like ancient history,
her monologue was like, I'm going to roast my other nominees,
and she was like, Jessica Chastain, you suck, just kidding,
I think you're really nice, And I was like, okay,
but what if she didn't have the publicist there saying
like no, now be nice.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, yeah, which used to happen, or like, I don't know,
I feel like people Julia Robbers would just sort of
like give a comment that was bitchy in the nineties.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Oh yeah, or her T shirt that she made scare off. Wait,
were there any other bitchy moments that you liked or
was that the main one?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, that one in particular. I also loved the toxic
gay cast member, but like was the one that led
her astray? Yeah, I mean she's iconic and stuff.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
I think like a lot of the book is about
how gay men relate to women, which I hope you're
not just there, but throughout, like I tried to have
each of the women have a moment with a toxic
gay man. Not to get too into it, but like
early on when one of them meets the flight attendant. Like,
there's just a lot of moments where I was like, Okay,
how can we make about a gig guy even though

(18:01):
it's about five women.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
No, I love that. I did love seeing the peaks
of gig guy come through, like and I love like, yeah,
that's the Jenny character. Like everyone stands her because she's
kind of a flop. Like I was like, that's so yeah.
I was like, damn so true.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
I mean that is the thing is is I think
that people in our cohort like the more someone flops,
the more we're like I love her. Like thinking of Abercadabra,
would it hit as hard if she hadn't just flopped
in the most major way in her whole career, Like
if there hadn't without a joker too? Can there be
an Abercadabra?

Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's an amazing question.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
It's true and even I mean, I know that Bruno
Mars song is like the number one song in the universe,
but it's like, as far as the work concerned, it's
a flop now, so that also counts as something that
just flop.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
And it's like I like the song, but it's like
I would never put it on, Like when would I
listen to it? No? Whereas like disease is a flop too,
but it's a flop.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
I love disease going.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I'm gonna go ahead and love that one.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Disease is secretly incredible disease.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
I honestly think disease is like maybe better than africadistvocative.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's so provocative.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Video is really good too.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Oh I love the video.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Yeah, the video is really good. Hey, it's all one
cohesive whole. It's like Mayhem is like Okay. I was
about to say it's giving art pop, which I meant
as a compliment in that it's a cohesive body of work.
But I think that to the wider world that's not
a compliment.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
It's hard to tell. It's really hard to tell these days.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's certainly not a compliment if you are Lady Gagda,
because she hates it.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
I saw a woman walking down the street like around
our age, a woman walking down the street the other
day in the neighborhood where I live, wearing an art
pop logo cap. But she was otherwise just kind of
in like outdoor voices with New York or toat and
I was like, yeah, you are one interesting chica. Like
I want to follow you, like, like how did this
enter your wardrobe?

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I wonder if it was just like she worked in
digital media during that time and was sent art pop merch.
That's kind of while. And also in New Yorker Toad
and she's just she has no idea. She was just like, oh,
isn't it fun? I love Alejandro.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
I want to circle back on something you said in
the intro when I was banned from speaking, which is
the perfect amount of trailers. Oh yes, the IFC Center
where it's like seven minutes in and out. And the
other perfect thing about that theater is they are not
assigned seats and you can just kind of have the
serendipity of I have seven minutes to find somewhere good
to sit. It's not so regimented, it's not so militaristic.

(20:35):
But yeah, I like that, like the trailers.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
I agree with you. I think if C Center is
a great first of all, perfect location. You literally just
like to leave the subway and you enter the building.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
Correct, love it.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
However, you do get the sense that it could be
a mouse at any point under a seat, and I
and I really don't I say that with love for
all independent cinema and for all independent movie theaters. And
I go there often. In fact, I just a Milia
Perez there for the second time. Wow, I don't Yeah,
it's the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Got to support her politics.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes exactly, but don't you But and and there is
something charmingly what's the word, I don't know, like old
New York, like like the smallest the smaller rooms at
IFC are basically just like a TV, like a sort
of living flatly larger wide screen TV.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Is that where you saw Amelia Perez or was it
a sellout crowd? Yeah, you know, hanging out.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, you would think, you know, you would think it
was actually post controversy, post controversy. I was like, so,
who now is going to Amelia Perez at IFC center.
Turns out it was me and maybe four other people
and seeing it.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
A second time, not to hold your feet to the fire,
But was it just about picking up the nuances?

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Did you like fall asleep the first time?

Speaker 1 (21:49):
No, that's a great question, so I the honest answer
is that it was the only thing playing at the time,
and we like had just had a big meal and
wanted to just like lay down and watch something, and
that was what was playing. But there was a part
of me that thought it would be just like a
funny bit that I'm someone who has seen Amelia Press

(22:09):
twice and I paid to see it in theaters.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
I've also seen it twice. I didn't pay for it. Well,
you're a professional work though, it was like obligation. I
don't hate it. I think it's like fine, I think
Selena is fun in it.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I must disagree on that.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
You don't think she's fun in it.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think she's notable. I see that now that is notable.
I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
I think there's just like an a reactionary part. Not
reactionary politically, but like there was a part of me
that wants to be contrarian in some way, and maybe
that filtered into my view of it the second time.
But the second time I big takeaway it was like,
Carlosa Fiagescon is a great actress regardless of her political views.
I was like, actually more impressed with her than with
Zoe the second time around.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
Interesting, it's like this is it's really rare to get
a new example of separating the art from the artist.
Now that most of the directors we say that about
have like stopped working, and so it's like, wow, how
refreshing to have this debate once again.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
It's really refreshing.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, I have okay, wait about the book. I feel
like I have like two more things I want to
ask please. So, like it's so based in reality, Like
how did you balance like pulling from real people versus
like invention.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Okay, Jenna bush Hager over here, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I'm just like there was like some stuff. I was like, wait, not,
I'm getting my damn credit.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Mom.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
It's a great question. I was not prepared for that question. No,
I was so all the situations are real. Every circumstance
like has like a real world analog, like the comedy
show you mentioned, like the film festivals. All that stuff happened,
and I think eagle eyed readers can say, this person
looks a little bit like this real world person. That

(23:56):
person looks a little bit like that real world person.
But I would try to pretty rigorous with myself and
be like, I don't know what actually goes on in
the minds or personal lives of these celebrities, and so
all the like personal life stuff that's happening with them
is like totally made up. Like there's a character in
the novel who is an alcoholic where elements of her
career are drawn from a couple of people I've encountered

(24:20):
in my professional life. But then all the personal life stuff,
I was just like, okay, like she's being Tennessee Williams Heroin.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Like it doesn't need to have any real world backing.
It's just made up. So it was kind of fun
to like take it and run with it.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, in that way.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
I have a question. One of the women is star
in the book is starring in n a Maria Callis biopic.
Did you think of that before Maria was announced?

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yeah, No, the book was done when Maria, but the
book was the first draft was done when Maria was announced,
and I finished the second draft before Maria came out.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Got it.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
I almost changed it because I saw this documentary about
Maria Callis at the New Ork Film Festival like eight years.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Ago and was like file this away.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
That was like one woman who lived a very interesting life,
Like you could do something with that. And then crazily
I was like, this movie has stolen my thunder, I
must change it. I was going to make her a
different opera singer, and then I was like, no, it
could be funny if this movie goes somewhere. I was
rooting for Angelina throughout this season because I like, I
like the movie Maria.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
Actually I thought it was good. But also I was
like viral promo, viral promo, like come on, come on,
let's make it happen.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
And it didn't get across the finish line. But my
thoughts were with her the whole way.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
I mean, there is something meta textual, like there is
something not to spoil anything, but like the film Maria,
the way it sort of didn't reach the heights that
it was meant to reach, echoes certain parts of the book.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yes, well, I think it's.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Just funny because just thinking about the Oscars. I don't
know if this is coming out before after the Oscars,
but like before before okay, fab but like something like
Angelina Jolie plays Maria Callis, it's like done, pre sold,
like give her the Oscar now, and then people, not me,
I liked it, but people watch it and are like, oh, okay,
so it's actually less than the sum of its parts,

(26:14):
and it's funny the way that can happen, and yeah,
I think that. In the book, I tried to show
how even though all the pieces might be there, you
can't control the way you're perceived.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, I know, which is almost like actually a kind
of in a weird way, an optimistic stance, because actually
what it shows you is that like the art still matters,
Like it's not just about fitting pieces together and making
a movie that on paper could win an Oscar, right right,
if it doesn't transcend in this way.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, in our world, Maria on paper should win an Oscar.
And like a sex comedy about like a sex worker
in ouder Borough, New York, like should not.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
And or a body horror yeah, like where you see
some one like stitch their own back together.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah, but enough about it. I'm still here, damn.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, George, as a you know, as a performer, I
did feel I don't know if you felt this way,
but sometimes I was like, damn called out a bit
where it's like the like narcissism of being like like
when you're giving and when you're not, like like to
a stranger, like being like well they were like I'll
give them my the razzle dazzle right now, or like yeah,

(27:28):
us at the Bellhouse literally like I am like, you know,
there's times where I'm like I can I am like
very consciously thinking about like if I'm turning it on
or off, and I was like, that is I've never
read it before, but I was like, well it is.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
It is interesting, Like without sending to Navel Gayzy, like,
at this stage in the media ecosystem, basically everyone is
like one percent of celebrity, Like, yeah, if you're online,
you like at some point we'll have the experience of
like someone coming up to you and saying they know
if you are or something. So it's like you get
a very very slight taste of what an actual famous

(28:05):
person would feel like, and it already makes you feel insane. Yeah,
And it has actually given me so much empathy for
real celebrities because I'm like, yeah, I would be like
fully in an in an American horror story asylum if
I had to promote my Maria Callis biopic.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
It seems so kind of unlivable. Like there's this one time.
There are a multiple times. Actually, most recently, I was
interviewing Sebastian's Stan not to drop a name in New
York and a coffee shop or something, and like people
kept like walking by and like literally pointing at him
like he was like a zoo animal. And it wasn't

(28:45):
you know, it wasn't on the level of like the
paparazzi pursued Brittany to rapaciously in two thousand and seven.
But it was like, Okay, if I'm him, this is
really distracting. I'm not even the person they're pointing at,
and it's super fucking distracting. And it's like the ability
to just kind of keep your focus and then like
an other moments, you're like turn on the chart and

(29:06):
be like, hey, how are you as not an ability
that I really possess.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
So I wanted to kind of write my way into it.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, I was. It was also the yeah, the whole
like wanting it to be like being like once I
have this, I'll feel better, very relatable as well.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, I know it did make me think are they
ever I'm like, is the Marile one no offense?

Speaker 3 (29:32):
You said it? Not me?

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Like, is she happy? It's like no, I'm just sort
of like can any of them ever win? And also
what is the equivalent? Sometimes I'm like, not that I
would ever want you to write the equivalent for the
male acting category. But I am a little bit like
it would be so boring, but it would. There's almost
like a satire version of it that could be written

(29:56):
that's just like, yeah, while the women are literally like
undergoing ego death every day, the men are just like.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
Right, that's like there is one actor in the book
and he literally is just kind of.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Like like to it all.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
And so I feel like the version about best actor
would be a pamphlet because also like whenever I interview
an actress, I feel like, and this is just me,
my own filter is a gig guy, but it is
like I feel like I go on this like intense
emotional journey and whenever I interview an actor, they're like, yeah,
I worked really hard on it.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
I hope people like it. It's out in a couple
of weeks, I think, and it's like okay, but give me,
give me something like come on.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
And so yeah, the version about men I fear would
be a pamphlet.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Since you, you know, for your job famously interviews the
libs left and right, has anyone like extra extra extra
charmed you or you were like holy shit, Like dealing
with this person in person is like Jarring.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, other than Sidney Sweeney.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
I can't say Sidney Sweeney.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
It's actually not who I was gonna say, but it's
gonna be perhaps predictable all the same because it's like
a similar category of performer, which is and I think
I've said this before, but which is on a Dharmas
where I was just like.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Really, you're the star, yeah, like you.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Are a major, major star. I'm trying to think about
more recent though, like this year. Funny enough, this is
this is not someone I interviewed directly, but I was
working on Actors on Actors this year and I came
away from it. I need to couch this carefully. I
came away from it thinking, wow, that Ryan Reynolds is.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
A real pro.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
Uh, and I I was pleasantly surprised. I don't know
that I was starstruck exactly. I think, like, if I
can't say Sydney Sweeney, my answers on Adharmas for like
who I was like, holy shit. But in both the
cases of Sweeney and Dharmas, they were people I like
hadn't spent a ton of time thinking about really, and

(31:55):
it was an assignment, and so that's kind of the
nice thing it's like if it's like someone like Nicole
Kidman was at Actors on Actors this year and I
was like, I predict I'm going to be completely blown
away and I was like, no surprise there.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, that is interesting about Ryan Reynolds.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Have we said sorry? Dan is a writer at Variety
when he's not writing novels, and that is why he
has interviewed a lot of celebrities and also works on
Actors on Actors, which is smartastically the Variety of video
feature where actors talk to other actors.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, so some backstory. Dan is actually a stalker, So
that's sort of.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
How sort of like seeks out celebrities extra curric So he's.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Pretty much one of the weirdest guys we know.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Was so charming when I knocked on her window that night,
she lit up the room as I threw rocks through it.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Can I get your take on something, because it's something
I've been thinking about. I've been seeing it more and
more with the Oscar season heating up, and you just
did it in fact, which is I've noticed gay guys
will refer to actresses with their last name and it'll
be you know the thing with Kidman the thing with
more you know, And I want to sort of like
theorize why that is, because I'm almost like, is it

(33:05):
a way to make something like the Oscar Race seem
somehow more serious? Or is it a way to like
almost like adopt the attitude people would have towards professional
sports where they would say like the last name of
a player to make it sound more like it has
more gravity.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Mike, guess is it's familiarity without doing first names, like
you want to be like, oh, of course we all
know what we're talking about, like we're super familiar.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yeah. I feel like it's that.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
I feel like, like, you know, how on Survivor when
people say like, oh, Jeff Probes will have his favorite
contestants and when they win the challenge to be like
good job Smith.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
I'm sure as opposed to like, good job John.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
But I also think part of it too is like
thinking about like Maria Callis with like gay guys of
a past generation and be like lack calls like it's
like it's a little bit me being like luck hitman,
LUs me me like that, like she needs no introduction,
she's less Sweeney totally.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, do you stand Sydney Sweeney.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't know this. I feel like
this was.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Like a known element of our shared friendship is that
I've interviewed her a couple of times, and part of
why I stand her is that she is truly self
aware in this way where the first time I interviewed her,
I was one of true journalists interviewing her together as
a team, and at the end, she was like, all right, guys,
this has been really fun. Now, remember I'm aware of
the parts that were said that are going to be

(34:29):
used for headlines, and so try to minimize those and
talk more about the work if you can, but if
you can't, I get it. And I was just like,
holy shit, Like I think of myself as like very
in on the game, and I feel like I just
got gamed in this way, in this way that I
really admire and thought was so smart. And I've interviewed
her again and it was it was a really great experience.

(34:49):
I also think she's I think she's a great actress.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
No, I stand I stand quite hard. Actually I agree,
So that's good to know.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Wait, let's start for a secondent because I want to
get into the topic. Oh yeah, I agree, Okay, Okay,
you you ahead, Oh, okay, Dan.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Our first one is called straight Shooters, and in this segment,
we're going to ask you a series of rapid fire
questions to gauge your familiarity with and complicity in straight culture.
It's basically this thing or this other thing, and the
only rule is you can't ask a single follow up
question or will scream scream scream George, you want to
kick us off?

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yes, turning a look at can or reading a book
by Dan, reading a book by Dan.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Losing your religion, or cooing like a pigeon.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Cooing like a pigeon, Miramax or musen Xinx.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Lock and load, or frog and Toad, Frog and toad.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
The French New Wave or Judy Dench should have been
in conclave the.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
French New Wave getting mixed signals or eating six pringles.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Getting mixed signals.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Amy Adams, Jamie Dornan, maymy Gummer or fame is a
prison Mami Gummer.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Really good work, Okay, blurg irma gird or awkward blur.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Not believe me?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
That was we actually kind of brought it that one. Yeah,
that was kind of crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
I tried to make mine all quasi Oscar's theme. No,
that was across.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
That did come across beautifully.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
I'm so glad it is iconic that you chose Mami
Gummer over both Amy Adams and you know, sort of
by extension Lady Gaga, who of course said fameus a prison.
I would say, obviously you knew exactly what was going on. Yeah,
there was no hesitation. It's clear that you're familiar with
the game.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
I am.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
I'm almost like, is choosing Mami Gummer so pick me.
It's like so unexpected that it's almost a slap in
the face. Sam, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I think? You know, there was something about that whole
performance where I was really like like he's stepping up
to the plate, Like there was something so like like
he's being.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Very Adrea Benedictine this moment.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yes, it was very like you think, I'm like gonna
play this game like I'm I've been I know this
game better than you know this game, like enough enough games.
So that felt like it was almost like that an
understudy has to go out and then like does way
better than the.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Star Totally okay, so what do we think, like I'm
going to go nine twenty two?

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Yes, Wow, yeah, thanks guys, pretty.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Big, pretty good.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
One of the best scores we've had in a while.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
That's what. Wow.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Okay, So I without further ado, I do want to
get into the topic because I'm actually very excited to
talk about this ones and so Dan, please tell us
what your straight topic is and maybe a little bit
about what's straight about it.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
Absolutely so my topic is Pink, not the color, but
the recording artist. This came to mind because I was
recently listening.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
To the Mula Roofe soundtrack, just refreshing my memory, of course,
and I was thinking of Marmalade. Yeah exactly, Oh yeah,
lady Marmelote and how.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
On it Like the entire song is structured as a
build toward Wait till you see what Christina does in
the final act. Like it's basically black Swan, Like it's
like everything is in anticipation of this massive final act
and indeed she like sings completely incoherently and amazingly, and
she doesn't even know where she is as she's singing.

(38:23):
In the process of getting there. There are a few others,
and Pink is the one out of the entire song
where it's like, okay, the assignment is sing a sexy
song about the mooamerge I got it, and I was
thinking about how everything in her career feels just like, Okay,
if this is what you people want, I'll do it.
There's like never been a wink to her. No, there's
never been a wink to pink. There's never been irreverent

(38:48):
feeling or a feeling of kind of testing things out,
which is especially pronounced given that her whole deal for
the past like twenty years has been like, I'm the
pop star who's an acrobat, and that.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Should be circus. It should be it should be so late,
it should be kind of sexy and intriguing but also
funny and absurd, literally flipping things on its head. And
yet the feeling I get when.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
I see one of those videos of her doing like
the zip line across the stadium is just like, Okay,
what I'm going to do is it feels like like
if you were taking a trapeze course and the instructor.
It's like when Carrie takes a trappeze course in Sect
and City, and the instructor is.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Just like, all right, you do need these harnesses to
be safe.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
And it's like there's never any kind of she's like
the anti Gaga in this way where like totally she's
never had a super high high because she's never really
had a super low low. It's just kind of always
like I have a playbook and I'm executing it, and
it's like, but I want to see blood and guts
and I want to see you follow off the trapeeze
one time?

Speaker 3 (39:47):
What would happen? Right?

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Where's the vulnerability?

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Where's the vulnerability?

Speaker 1 (39:52):
She does, Sam, What is your what are your I have?
I have so much to say? What are your associations
of think?

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Well?

Speaker 2 (39:57):
The biggest one, of course, is that my mom is
pink biggest fan exactly. My mom is like so addiutioned
to Pink in a way that is like where I
actually feel almost that I have to tread lightly so
it's not to hurt her feelings. I don't know. She
usually she doesn't listen, maybe this listening, but but this
one she might listen. So I honestly want to say, Mom,

(40:17):
I think you might have stopped listening if you're listening
right now, because this conversation is we have to be honest,
and we can't be honest if we're worried about your
feelings about Pink, and I respect how much you love Pink,
but I have to be honest with my podcast right now. Okay, George,
tell us your thoughts. Okay.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
So my grand theory of Pink is that there's pre
Ellen Pink and post Ellen Pink. So I think that
Pink in early in her career, I'm not I don't
know if I would go so far as say there
was that vulnerability that you're looking for Dan, but she
was certainly there was an authenticity, Like I think first
she was like truly trying to do hip hop in

(40:56):
this like crazy way that whatever you think about it
in retrospect, was authentic to her, Like you could tell
it came from a love of hip hop and she
like was trying something, whether she was succeeding or not,
like it was truly she was trying to be like
a white hip hop artist. Then she went into this
kind of like almost like rock and roll direction, and
she like saying trouble stripped down with a guitar at

(41:19):
the Grammys or like the Amas or Amas or something.
She was sort of like like sexy and provocative and
she would like wear a bra and she was sort
of like uncategorizable because she wasn't Britney, but she also
wasn't you know Indie. Obviously, then of course you got
the stupid girl's ear where she's like out being outspoken

(41:41):
about how like women are stupid.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Now, well, she was the anti Brittany.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
She was literally the anti Brittany, which was this is
just a Prentice like especially sort of like damning considering
pink was literally like in a duet with Christina Aguilera,
who's also Brittany. Like it the idea that Pink is
less or more, but then Brittany is very sort of
missing the point anyway. The point is I would say
she had less of a cohesive style, but she was

(42:09):
throwing spaghetti at the wall in this way where you
were like, maybe something will come out of this, and
sure enough, many big hits did, like at the party started,
and I think Miss Undoes Dude is an incredible record.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
The body of work, the body of body of work.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Okay, so then post Ellen is when she becomes fully.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Like target brand clown, target clown.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Clown but also inspiration porn. It's it's like, well, yeah,
this one goes out to all the misfits, but you're
performing at a sorority party. Like it's like, yes, you're
you're performing in front of all kind of like middle
class moms and you're saying, raise your glass to all
the misfits, and they're all like.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
WHOA, Well, that's the song where she tries to it's
like she tried to start a little monster style thing
by referring to her fans as the dirty little freaks,
which has never really sat right with me because A,
it's just not very like it's like it needed one
more pass from the gig guy in the room that's
not there and be It's like, your fans are just
not dirt dirty little freaks.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
They are like candle buyers.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yes, there, it is there. Exc that's exactly what they are.
They are candle buyers had Bath and body Works. It's
not it's not Yankee candle, but it's Bath and body Works.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
I wanted to say Magnolia, but it's pre Magnolia, so
it's like it's bath and body Works.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yes, but that song in particular is so funny, Like
when I hear that song, I'm sort of like, I'm
glad you've been on this insane journey because when you
remove it from the context of the Midwestern moms. I'm like,
it's like one of the funniest pieces of music we have.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
It is incredible. I mean the fact that the guts
it takes to literally release a song where it's nana
no no, no, nana, Like it's literally sampling a back
what's it called, like school yards? It's on easing song taunts.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
The last thing I wore songs in one sorry keep going. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Last thing I will say is something that we have
to mention is that the post Ellen bet On, Bath
and body Works paid off hugely. Yes, because something some
people that are like in our circles don't know is
that Pink is, like I think has the second most
like best selling world tour after Taylor Swift or something.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
She like.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Her sales are insane and she's insanely popular internationally because
there's an ESL Eurovision vibe to all her music. So
it's actually very relatable if you live in like Estonia.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
She kind of reminds me now that you mentioned it,
and this does undercut my argument, but I'm confident in
the argument regardless. She kind of reminds me of like Cascata,
like aesthetically and a little bit in the music as well.
But you know, to your point, prising up our elements
of your argument in the pre period when she was
more messy and dare we say it more gay just

(44:58):
in the sense that she was just trying things spontaneously.
Don't you wish like a song like Stupid Girls should
be either intentionally funny in that it's curing people accurately
or unintentionally funny because it's such an insane concept, And
it's kind of neither. It's like, it's like, I'm not
going to bring this back to my.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Book and the concept of like women picking on each other, but.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
It is like, okay, if nothing else, this should just
be like such a wild overstep. And it came out
and I feel like people were just like, Okay, that's
pink heard from anyway?

Speaker 3 (45:31):
What else is going on.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
With the insane video where she's like directly making fun
of like Paris Hilton and whatever, and and then and
the lyrics are so basic, what happened to the dream
of a girl president she's dancing in the video next
to fifty cent That is her take.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Yes, I do feel like if she ever apologized for it,
I'm sure she probably did, But I also feel like
everyone has just forgotten that in part because like she's
so self help now that it's like, oh, Pink would
ever do something like that. She basically is Brene Brown,
Like she basically just is such a kind of quasi
inspirational figure.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, And I actually think what you're talking about in
terms of like her not being able to commit to
either you know, full camp or full let's say, cringe
or whatever, like stupid Girls is right in the middle
of that. I actually think that could also be applied
to like appear like her fashion choices, her hair, like
everything is in this weird dare I say, uncancanny Valley,

(46:31):
Like it's like between good and bad.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
You're kind of there's something about her that it's kind
of similar to this where I'm like, she doesn't exist
in a place like I feel like a lot of
pop stars you can be like, oh, they're like that's
New York Lower East Side, like that they're going for
like a like Los Angeles, they're going for Houston. Like
there's like a there's something where it's like it does
exist in a space and it's just like you're translating

(46:57):
where you're from to a larger audience. And Pink, it's like, like,
what is your Like it's half like I'm redneck, half
I'm hip hop, half I'm target and it's like it's
so confusing.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
I think that connect that relates to the Eurovision thing.
There's something that is like it's almost like someone who
grew up in a small European country consuming American pop
culture and then tried to emulate it.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah. Yeah, and she.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
Always it always goes through that pink filter, if of
like a sort of light lack of taste and just
kind of blending it all together. Where like basically since
the Ellen Alliance, she's been the same way. I think,
like the degree of the idea of eras as it
work can be like very overstated, but she's been the

(47:49):
exact same for like fifteen years and the music sounds
the same, the aesthetic presentation is the same, the act
as the same, and people love it. But you're a
little bit like, okay, like I want dynamism because you
know it could. You are missing out on the chance
to do something really transcendent, but you're also missing out
of the chance to like, Pink will never have an

(48:11):
art pop Pink will never have a bionic because she
will never release music that's not like completely the same.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Yeah, yeah, she everything is like a bit crowd tested,
Like it's like she's trying to succeed. And I even
feel like stupid girls. I think that is her like
artistic view is to be like what is popular, Like
in two thousand and four, it was like hating Paris
Hilton and thinking like girls were dumb, and so it

(48:40):
was like, I will do so.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
It wasn't like it wasn't like she was bravely speaking
up like the mainstream view was American society is going
to ship because of Paris Hilton and Nicole Ridge.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
Literally right, and that song now yeah, and even now,
like the inspiration stuff, it's like, well Trump as president,
and like all I can do is be like and
Ellen is the biggest person on earth, I will be
inspiring like that.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
A great example I think of the Pink ethos is
a few years ago she had an album called Beautiful Trauma,
which I think is the perfect title for a Pink
album because it's like it's a few years after like
trauma became a buzzword. Yes it's no longer fresh, but
to the candle buyers and to the people in small
European countries. It is the first time they've heard, right,

(49:29):
It's sort of like, okay for everyone who hasn't heard
about Trauma yet. This is an album called Beautiful Trauma.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
You know when her songs, though, really do hit, like
when I hear them and I'm like, damn, trauma really
can be beautiful. Yes, He's like Pink came back into
my life. I said, I always knew who she was
because like she's often the last song at a soul
psycho class. And it's like, I don't have any associations
with this other than I know who's singing it because

(49:55):
I recognize your voice.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
This song has never been a part of my life.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Beloved by candlebuyers in the world over who've got packed stadiums,
but to me, I'm here for the first time of
the lyrics kind of mean everything and nothing, and I
am soaring on that bike, I am like about to
fly out.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Of the room. You know, Dan, it's funny that you
say that because my mom is a fitness instructor.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Wait, really, so.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
That's this is the missing link. Of course, she loves Pink,
so she loves or.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
What she does spin she owns like a boutique fitness
place in Michigan, and so it's like small classes.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
I visited it. It's honestly great. It really made me
want to like take her classes, and I'm kind of
sad that I didn't have time. Yeah, I would have
loved if she played Beautiful Trauma from start to finish.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
You know, she pink is a staple of the Spin
Room playlist, I bet, and so yeah, it's that's that
is the link. That is a big link. And that's
also there is a fitness it's a Midwestern fitness link.
Because there's also like it's impressive physically, the acrobatics. It's
not like this looks cool, it's like her age. She

(50:56):
can do this, Like that's inspiring.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
Yes, No, and it's not. It's by its very nature.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
It's not like, you know, I Lady Goga, for instance,
dances her house off in the Abercadet video, but it's
like cut together between shots. It's like, no, you're in
the stadium and you are watching that woman fly over
your head for two hours, like and she can do it.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
And what she does is impressive.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
It is impressive.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
And I've always sort of okay, so because I actually
was a Pink fan as a child, I like didn't
realize that it was uncool until much later in the game.
There was a family trip where the two CDs that
I had were The eminem Show and miss Undasdod and
I love going back and forth between the two of them,
and like when you're when you're like, okay, when you're

(51:42):
a kid, and you sort of are like discovering like
Sun Dance movies and like discovering you hear family portrait
by Pink and you're like, this is deep in our
family portrait. We look pretty happy, we look pretty normal.
Let's go back to.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
That aging Todd salons like hello, literally it's literally yes,
that is wiener dog.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
So there is a part of me that is almost upset,
almost similar to how I feel about Gwen Stefani, because
when Stefani also very much has a pre Ellen and
post Ellen phase. Yes, obviously her pre Ellen phase is
much more iconic, and I'm not comparing them, but like
there is a nostalgia where I'm like, damn, if one
other thing had gone differently, what if Pink, one of

(52:22):
Pink's crazy early experiments had like gained traction and then
she did like a concept album.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Yeah, I think that could have been really interesting.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
I think I think I feel like we've reached the
portion of the roast and as much as this is
a roast, but we're like, yeah, not seriously, Pink.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
You're a legend.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
You are absolutely right. No, I know because I started
feeling back because I was like, even the circus, the
circus stuff, I'm like, she actually does tear it. Like
when you watch that initial performance of Glitter in the
Air where she first does a circus thing, it is impressive.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Well, and that was crazy.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
My recollection is that was at the Grammys and it
was kind of like, oh, Pink at the Grammy's random
and that was when she kind.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Of uncorked it.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Yes, and it was like legitimately impressive and then she
kind of just kept doing it.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yeah, it's a lot. Can I another a funny thing
that my mom did once that I have to say,
And Mom, I hope you have stopped listening. But I
think I was home like for the Pandemic and we
were like listening to music and like she was like,
so what a gig guys think about Pink? And I
was like, that is such an iconic question, and it
actually was like kind of sad where I had to

(53:30):
be like, you know, honestly, like they don't quite stand
and it's like, you know, and I tried to like
really soften it and be like, you know, some really
like her, like of course.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
You think the candle buying gaze do.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
I do think there's a sort of Midwestern like gay homeowner, right.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I want to know what the percentage because I actually
do think lesbian. Sorry to speak about lesbians again, I
don't want to get in trouble on Instagram, but I
do think lesbians love pink, Like I do think there's
a there's a kind of lesbian couple, you know, two
dogs pit bull mixes maybe, and they are living in
like not Indianapolis, what's the one Bloomington, and they are

(54:14):
going to the Pink show.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yeah. I think there's a direct correlation, regardless of gender
of whether if you own a home, you're like ninety
percent more likely to enjoy the music of pink.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
That's true. They go hand in hand because you're like,
I own a home and that makes me an outcast.
Like that's sort of the thought process that goes and
then you're like, raise your glass if you are wrong
in all the right ways.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
I feel like it's just like you're settled. It's like
I don't have time to focus on what Lady Gaga
and Katie Honor and Chapel Roon are doing.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
Like let me just listen to a three and a
half minute pop song where right at the bridge she
stops and randomly talks for fifteen seconds.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
The one thing that I think is proof that gay
guys have never seen it for her is I feel
like we would see posts that refer to her by
her given name, like it would be like Alica Moore,
Alicia just does it again in the same way. It's like, oh, Stephanie,
you shouldn't have Like it's just she says she told
us who she was Pink, and we believed her because

(55:13):
it was just like, okay, whatever, like you if you
say it, I'm good with it. Like there's never been
a kind of wondering of who she is behind the mystique.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
That's so true, and especially because when you think about it,
the name pink with an exclamation point is actually so
art pop on paper. To name yourself p exclamation point
NK is is so like swan Like that's literally that.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
I feel like it's kind of like a pop star
from a movie too.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
It's like, yeah, I feel like it's very like if
the Wakowski has made like a movie about the future,
the pop star would be named p exclamation point NK.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yes, it sort of sounds like a cryptocurrency.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Oh yeah, do you guys think, well, first of all,
she needs her own coin. We need pink coin.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Now if you don't think she, I'm not even looking
up she has one and I'm investing.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
I'm putting everything in a pink poin.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Are you kidding me? It could be it would be
the most stable coin to invest in. She's the most
successful artist.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
I have a question. Do you think it's like mentally
healthier for your fan base to be not gay guys?

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Like yes, yes, unambiguously.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
It's like the best fan base is like fish yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah, but having gay guys as your fans does give
you more like cultural cred in the long run, but
at what cost?

Speaker 4 (56:32):
Yeah? I think the best fan base is to have
are a like stable homeowning adults and failing that, like
young children, because there's a lot of growth potential and
they imprint on you.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
Wow, Yeah, Like my four year old now stands Chapel, which, like,
I kind of wish she had a CD wallet that
just had like pink in it, because I think like
having an Sorry George like uncool moment is like very
powerful and important. I agree, But she's just like play
hot to Go and I'm like, okay, so like Chapa
will get thirty years of your money, like.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Yes, So that is interesting having a four year old.
Does she respond differently to other pop stars, like is
there anyone? She's like, yuck, I hate this. Let me
think what happens when you put on Charlie xx.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
We have put on Charlie and she doesn't like it.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
She she more goes by song like she doesn't necessarily
understand the concept that like recording artists can record multiple songs,
and so she just kind of like certain Chapel songs.
And she recently told us that the song what Was
I Made For? Makes me feel sad inside, yeah, which
I think is very understandable. But other than that, it's

(57:50):
just kind of like Chapel roar. She's a big roar head.
She responds to Katie. She does not respond to Gaga. Incidentally,
that's scary, I guess I mean.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Hot to Go actually similar to Raise your Glass. Literally,
I mean it's like appropriating a cheerleader chant in the
same way that Raise your Glass is appropriating like a
school yard. So it is childlike in this way. I
would say it's slightly hair quality than Raise your Glass,
but it does have that childlike ellen, as does Roar.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
I think about this with all these songs. Do you
know how at the end of Visit from the Goon Squad,
have you guys read that You're too busy reading the
Talent by Danda Darreon.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
I'm trying to.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Think I have finished a visit from the spoil It.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
It's it's like in the future, and it's like a
recording artist is trying to break out, and the way
you break out is like toddlers, like if they like you,
they press a button and that's how they determine if
recording urts been famous in the future. And I'm like, oh, yeah,
we're basically there, like totally, And I think Pink would
pass that test with flying.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Colors absolutely, yeah, damn huh. The part in the Pink
song when she's like, why so SI is so funny.
She's the joker.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
I literally I love that and I love like there's
that song about like self image that goes like pretty
pretty please, and each verse she sings why do I
do that? And then in the final verse she stops,
and she stops the song the beat drops out.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Just why do I do that?

Speaker 4 (59:19):
And it's like when she stops the song, which she
does on multiple songs, and like talks to herself and
like phsykes herself up, it is kind of despite myself.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
I'm like, Okay, that's kind of.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Fab Yeah, totally, because guess what. At the end of
the day, I'm being so pro pink. I'm sorry. At
the end of the day, she actually does have beautiful trauma,
Like she isn't. Literally, she grew up in like a
difficult family situation, and you should listen to family, set
your ass down and takes any notes. You need to

(59:52):
watch the video for Family Portrait and then get back
to me. Because she has been through so much.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I think she's quite understowed.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Deeply she's understood, but I think previously she wasn't. And
maybe that is I mean, that is the pre Ellen
post Ellen thing. It's like post Ellen, she is understood.
My only point is it's like that's what makes it
almost like funnier in a way that like she actually

(01:00:20):
did have the beautiful trauma that could have caused her
to become a like a gog. I mean, I guess
Gaga didn't have beautiful trauma because she went to n Yu.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
But like, but that Facebook group about how she would never.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Be that's right, that's it's just ironic that like Gaga
went to n y u and makes art pop, Pink,
you know, has beautiful trauma and makes raise your glund.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I think Pink's trauma to me is like her son
like motocrossed too much like her is there. She's so BMX.
I see Pink, and I see.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Her the father of her children is a professional being.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
So that's why I see that. That makes sense, got it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
And he's really I don't know what he looks like now,
but I remember when they got together. I thought it
was so cute in like a sort of blink gwent
Eity two wake again. I think it's also like for
some people my exact age, maybe it was like the
first time they even because music was like Spice Girls,
Backstreet Boys. It was the first time anyone even had
something approaching the aesthetics of alt that I saw that

(01:01:19):
you would see on like mainstream MTV, you know what
I mean. It was like an el Lavine type thing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
It's funny because if she were like five years later,
she would have been in a class of like I
don't even know, like the all American rejects and like
Jimmy Eats Eat World or whatever, where it's like, okay,
these are also like alt a jacent or like even
Blinkwin Eity two being big, And because she just came
up with Brittany, it was like I am the anti
Brittany one thing. There were other items on the menu

(01:01:46):
like five years later, and not that she would have
been like them, but it would have been like, Okay,
it's a more diverse soundscape. It's like she just had
to be like fuck Brittany because that was the only
other option, right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
She was the like self styled punk one in the
pop world rather than the pop one in the punk
She wasn't paramore, like she didn't do like pop punk
that was like in the realm of simple plan or
something like that. She very was firmly a pop star
that was like a woman with backup dancers, but she
was like I'm not like those other girls.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Yeah, short hair.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Had she been even like a few more years later,
she could have been so Katie Perry performing at the
Warp Tour, which is how Katie got her start, And
it's like, yeah, I'm like a pop star, but like
I don't even need to define myself against Brittany. I'm
defining myself because like I'm a conventional pop star And
isn't it so random that I'm here at the Warp Tour?

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Mm hmm yeah damn. So, Dan, is your sequel going
to be about pop girls instead of actresses?

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Yeah, it's actually gonna be It's gonna be said at
the Grammys. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
Yeah, No, I think I've like written enough about celebrities
for one lifetime.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Well, I think maybe you'll revisit it in like twenty
years and it'll be like a big sort of like return,
return to the big. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
Well, the problem is I felt like I was really
good at making up fake You can be the judge,
but I felt like I could make up fake movies.
I feel like, whenever I read a book with a
fake pop star in it, the songs feel really fake.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
So I need to, like that's true, get better at writing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I think the tropes are maybe I'm just more of
a film person than a music person, but the tropes
are much more relatable to me in the movie world. Well,
I think there's like I could never have predicted that
an Olivia Rodrigo would become a big thing, that like
like pop punk would suddenly be big in twenty twenty one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Yeah, that was surprising, and I loved it, but it
was surprising.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Dan any final thoughts on Pink.

Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
I feel like through this conversation, I'm like a Pink fan.
I actually, as soon as we close out of this zoom,
I'm going to like put on Spotify and I'm like
not kidding, Like I feel like everything said I do.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
I do maintain she's the straightest pop star alive.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
But I'm like, oh my god, yes, but that has
a valuable role to play on our ecosystem now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Yeah. Yeah, well it's like she's almost in the same
class as like Megan Trainer, but she's like of in
that binary she's the cool one.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Yeah, yes, and show me Megan Trainer flying through the
air like.

Speaker 6 (01:04:19):
Like literally yeah, she is also like she is so
Pink has always been such an ally to the LGBTQ plus,
but it's also like she's performed, like she's an ally
and she's performing to all allies and all of them
are like waving rainbow flags, are so excited, but they
have never met a real gay person.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
But nephew, Yes, in theory the superport of they have
a gay nephew, but they're also sorry, like maybe anti vax.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Well like that because of the fitness connection.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Yeah, like it's like anti vax but has a gay
nephew and and loves candles.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
And loves candles. Well, we all love candles. Okay, I
think we should do First of all, I agree, I'm
I'm gonna go ahead and put on Pink at the
moment I can. And I actually think, Adam, for when
you end this episode, please do raise your glass instead
of our normal song.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Do as much as we can get away with without
you know, having to pay Sony, actually do enough that
we get sued so that we can be in conversation
with Pink.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Okay, So I think we should our final segment Dan,
which is of course shout outs, where we pay homage
to the grand straight tradition of the radio shout out,
where we shout out anything that we enjoy and George,
I actually do have one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
I do too, but you can go first.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Okay, what's up freaks, losers, and not to mention the perverts,
I want to give a huge shout out to Siggy's Yogurt.
If you know me, you know I've been a Chabani
diva since day one. I you know, I say chow
me the bonnie. But now I have had some Siggi's
and when I had in the past, I was like,
this is dry. It's powdery almost, and I can't handle it.

(01:06:06):
Now I think I have a more mature palette and
I'm saying, finally, a yogurt that's dry. I love that.
It's like it's more good than a Chobani. Chobani feels
like a yogurt for a child. And now I am
on my way to being a pink loving homeowner and
I need to have my dry, dry yogurt. So shout
out to Siggi's. You're drying up and it makes me

(01:06:26):
feel like it's better for me and I love you. Xoxo, Sam.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Wait, Sam, have you tried the fruity ones? No, you
gotta do blueberry, and you gotta do and berries a
berry really good. And also I'm about to bliw your mind.
I've done Siggi's as a shout out before.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Whoa fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Okay, you know I'm going to keep with the theme
of music and music videos and misunders, misundos, dude, women
in music. What's a music lovers out there? I want
to give a shout out to the music video for
the Tory Amos song A sort of fairy Tale. This
video stars Tori Amos and Adrian Brody Oscar nominee and

(01:07:08):
past winner Adrian Brody. Toy Amos plays a leg and
Adrian Brady plays an arm. You're thinking, what are you
talking about? Imagine a leg with a head on it
and an arm with a head on it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
I'm seeing it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Okay, Now that you have that image in your head,
imagine them falling in love and that and imagine me
absolutely bawling my eyes out because it is the most
beautiful love story between a leg and an arm I've
ever seen. Shout out to Adrian Brody for randomly doing
that video after winning an Oscar for the Pianist or
maybe before. I'm not gonna fact check it, and shout
out to Tory Amos, who has zero Grammys, whereas Taylor

(01:07:40):
Shift has fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Thank you, and you know, the Grammys are a damn sham.
It's not real.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
It's not real, Dan.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Whenever you're ready, all.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
Right, I'm gonna give a shout out to oyster crackers.
Yesterday I had a bit of an upset tummy and
I went ransacking my closet looking for something that could
soothe me, and oyster crackers it was. They are great,
crumbled up into soup or chowder if you have if
you are in some sort of lobster shack on the shore,
but if you are just in a Brooklyn apartment far

(01:08:13):
from water and you just want something that is tasteless
but in the best possible way. They are crunchy, they're weirdly,
a little thick. They are sold at Trader Joe's, which
is what mine were, but other establishments as well. Oyster crackers.
I don't know why they're called that. They would be
really bad on an oyster, but they're great. Just from

(01:08:34):
the palm of your hand. Thank you, oyster crackers, I
love you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Yeah, well I thought about this in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Don't write in But also whyever they call that? Yeah,
don't write I love I love the idea that you
were looking in your closet for oyster crackers, because it's
like how we find out that you keep oyster crackers
in your clothing closet.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
I meant pantry, but no, no, it is so weirdly shaped. Yeah,
I brought them out of the closet. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Yeah, Well, Dan, thanks so much for doing the pod.
I loved the book. I think everyone should do it.
And I want to apologize to all former authors for
not having finished the book before you came on.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
I want to say that for multiple of the former authors.
I then did end up finishing the book.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
But you had such informed questions today because you read mine.
So maybe you're turning over.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
I think we're turning over a new leave. I actually
am kind of turning over a new leaf where it's
like enough being a child.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
No, we're in our post Ellen era for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
Siggy's yogurt reading books. It's all happening. Home ownership next.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, home ownership.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Let's go Dan one more time. What is your novel?
Call your debut novel called in whorking people? I mean, yeah,
where can people find it?

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
It is called the Talent My name is Daniel Dedario.
It is available anywhere you buy books, your local independent bookstore,
the library, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Well Run Don't Walk, Run Don't Walk. Okay, Bye bye
podcast and now want more?

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month,
discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com.
Slash Stradio Lab.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
And for all our visual earners, free full length video
episodes are available on.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
Our YouTube now Get back to Work.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money
Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Created and hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Hans Sony and Olivia Aguilar.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Co produced by by Wang, Edited.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
And engineered by Adam Avalos.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Grubb.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Theme music by Ben kling Y. So serious, Thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:11:00):
Jolly clash, Slam Slam, oh hot, damn what but but
it don't you understand?

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Was shoot? Just freak out?

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
I

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