"Yo-Yos" w/ Liam Benzvi

Have you been outside? There are men playing with Depression-era wooden toys—and it's all part of the masculinity crisis. Today we welcome our dear friend Liam Benzvi, whose amazing album ...AND HIS SPLASH BAND is out now, to chat all things yo-yos, cups and balls, and so much more. Plus: What is the most punk month? What does it mean to "have a thing"? And finally: Can gay guys get through Lizzo's Pass? Well it's not really that simple.

Find Liam's music at liambenzvi.com!

STRAIGHTIOLAB MERCH: cottonbureau.com/people/straightiolab

SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PATREON at patreon.com/straightiolab for bonus episodes twice a month and don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Podcast starts. Now, what's up everyone around the world. This
is Stradio Lab. It is a cloudy Is it cloudy? Oh?
It's cloudy as hell. I mean maybe it's my LA
sensibility where you know, I see a little cloud now
and I say, oh God, it's cloudy. But I would
argue it is cloudy outside.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
What do you think of Spring?

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Oh, I'm so glad you asked least favorite season by
far flop loser. I think I think spring is a
is a prison sentence. Yeah, yeah, I think it's it's
edging in the worst way. I think you never feel
joy until May. And I think, you know, I remember

(01:03):
just looking at the leaves and being like, go faster.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, okay, here's my opinion. You know, I, you and I.
One of the things we have in commedist that we're
both summer girls. To quote Danielle him and I think,
and we come alive in the summer. We are both beachy,
we both love a pool, we both love reading by
a body of water, and of course that part of

(01:28):
me is still there.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
You're getting choked up.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
I'm getting choked up just thinking about it. I more
and more the summer peak tourist season is like peaking
more than it ever has, to the point where I'm
afraid to do anything summary in the actual months of
July and August, and that has actually forced me to
start valuing late spring and early fall more. I know

(01:54):
exactly what you mean, and it is confusing to me
because when I now think of July and August, normally
my favorite, I'm feeling a sense of entrapment. I am
feeling a sense of uh, does you know, sort of
like hope deferred, Like it will never be what it
once was, and I have to start romanticizing late May,

(02:16):
early June, and in fact mid September.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I say yes to mid September. Yeah, late May, early June.
It's gonna be chilly, Like it's just like you can't
be at a beach and be comfortable. So I literally think, so, yes,
sometimes you'll get like the off day. But like I
have tried for years to be like summer starts June first,
and I have been burned by being cold so many

(02:45):
times because it doesn't start June first. It starts like
June thirtieth, which is my birthday.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
But don't you find that when you are planning something
for peak summer months. I don't know. Maybe I just
need to like be more bold and be like, you
know what, I am going to be one of the
bodies that is crowding Fire Island.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
George, you cannot be afraid to take up space. Really,
I think you really have to lean into I hear you.
You're just your desire to be alt is like, you know,
pushing over your desire to have fun and be in
a nice place. But you just have to you know,
my theory on Mondays? What is it that even if

(03:27):
you're on vacation on a Monday, it's still a Monday,
and you can't break free from the Monday feeling.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
And you're saying, even if I'm on vacation in May,
it's still May, and I can't break free of the
mail literally. Okay, so you're sort of following a more
literal approach, a more formalist It's like May is May,
July is Friday. Men are men, women are women.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
You know that's not what I'm saying, George. You know
that's not what I'm saying. July is Friday. Yeah, and
you have to be like, well, it's Friday, I'm going
to the beach. I guess you're not convinced.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
You know. What I'm bumping up against is like, there
are only so many months, and it really saddens me
that we'll never get new ones. You know what I mean.
I'm not getting what I want out of the existing months,
and and you and it should. You would think in
the world we're living in, with so much innovation in
the fields of science, technology, et cetera, you could invent
a new month that is perfect and that it's both

(04:25):
the perfect weather and not crowded.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
George, do you think it exists?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
It's international travel?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh you're saying, okay, go to Australia.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I'm literally saying, go to Australia, go to South America,
go to Mexic Like I think, I think. You know.
This was what I was starting to feel in New York,
where I was like, I the way that summer I
need every waking second to be the best second of
my life was starting to be problematic, right. I couldn't
sustain that. I was getting disappointed because some seconds were bad.

(04:58):
And then I was like, wait, wait, what if I
started taking trips more, which I didn't do, I didn't
get to live up to that. I unfortunately but it's
still I have the solution all played out.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay, so it's uh, you got to spending money? Well okay,
so classically you know you want something, what's the solution
being able to afford it?

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Quite literally? All right?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Should we bring out I guess.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, do the honors?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay. We are so excited to have him on. You know,
we haven't had a musician on in so long. What
was the last one we had on?

Speaker 1 (05:30):
You can't ask me.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
I can't even remember.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Have we ever had one on?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Oh my god, the first musician we've ever met, Liam Bensby.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Hello, how's it going. It's great. I'm so happy to
be here.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Oh my god, we are so happy to have you.
How is What do you think about the months?

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well?

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, while I was listening, I was thinking about, Uh,
there was like one year where I insisted on going
to the beach immediately on June first. But it was
very like I have an eating disorder, I need to
like bike here every single day, or like I it
was like very something's going on in my head, like
I was dealing with something. Yeah, so I haven't done

(06:09):
that since.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, but I almost think the disappointment of the first
beach day is like good to tamper down your expectation.
It's like it humbles you and then you can enjoy summer.
It's almost like an initiation richly, where like the first
beach day has to be a little bit like, oh wait,
this is what you've been waiting, this is what we've
been looking forward to, and then the second time you go,
you're like, all right, I'll bring a book, it'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
You know what I did last year that was a
huge mistake. Which is why I feel so passionate about
this now, is I did all my little trips in June.
From June first to June thirtyth I was doing little
trips and all of them were cloudy and bad, and
it was like, of course I shouldn't have tried to
do them all in June. What was I thinking start
in July.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Are you the type of person that has something planned
to do or do you kind of revel in the
nothing of vacation.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
I revel in the nothing of vacation.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, it's me too.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, it's actually really stressful to me because now all
the trips I've ever gone on have been like to
Fire Island, Oh my.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
God, we're being interrupted. I said, I did not want.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
This to happen. Thank you. Oh wow, this is the
best day of my life.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh my god to have blue bottle coffee.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
You. Oh my gosh, thank you.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh my god. Cheers you guys.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Cheers. Seriously, you guys.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Putting the iced coffee in the paper cup is is
a flex.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
I actually want to know what you think about, because
this is something I've noticed more and more and I
can't decide if I find it almost cheek, there is
something a little like business woman about it, or if
I find it to be absolutely morally abhorrent, because that
doesn't go there.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
It's kind of like a school uniform. Yeah, yeah, like
everybody the same.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
And then sometimes they'll put a straw inside the sippy cup.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Uh huh mmm. I'm kind of anty, you're antie. I
don't think these cups were made for this, and I
think it's a poor reflection on the cups. It makes
me feel like like the cup is doing a bad job,
when really it's just not made.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Okay, So I'm noticing a pattern I think today we'll
do is that you think things are made for what
they're made for, and you think there should be no experimentation.
There should be no innovation. If someone you know goes
on vacation in May, or if someone puts ice coffee
in a hot coffee cup, you are calling nine one
one and you are saying, thank god you are well funded,
because I need you here today.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
I need you hear asap. I think experimentation can happen,
you know. I think every coffee place should have a
sense of play, you know, I think this. Yeah, But
that being said, once you experiment and you find out like, oh,
that didn't really work as well as I thought it would,
then you go back and then you say, Okay, that
was a fun little journey. I'll never go on vacation
in June again.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
But isn't sort of punk rock DIY culture kind of
finding the beauty and the imperfect?

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Oh my god? Literally no, it's not.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
What's the most punk month?

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh? Whoa fuck? Wow?

Speaker 2 (09:04):
All right? What is the most punk month?

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Well?

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I think my brain jumps to a colder month, but
I do think like October has Halloween, of course, and
there's sort of the like people put out decorations, decorations,
destroyers like Avril Levine being punk, Well, I think she's valid.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Do you think.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Avrilvin is valid as a punk yeah? Or valid in general?

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I think yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
I mean I was. I was a big head back
in the day. My stepdad a long time ago worked
at Good Morning America when I was a kid, and
he would bring me to like the seven AM concerts,
so I got to like kind of make signs and
like meet a lot of my idols at the time,
and she was one of them, and I got to

(09:49):
make her a sign. That was really cool.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
But here's a question for you, because I also, of course,
as a young gay kid, loved Avril Levine, but it
was not allowed to like, like you were not allowed
to love Avri Levine, so too, it was not it
was not cool.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
It's like who's conservative now?

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Did you feel like you could openly love ever Levine?

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, you did.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Okay, because I felt like I was young enough it
was like Avril Lavine, Well, it was okay for me
to do that because I was also like a huge
psycho obsessed with the Strokes person when I was younger,
So I had that kind of like tipping the scale
like altness that I could like I could fall back

(10:42):
into Avril if I needed.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
To you have every old thing, every real thing you like.
You collect Avrilavine coins and you can spend on Aril
fans exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
You do need to have a pillar of genuine cool
and then you're allowed to be silly.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
That girl can sing.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh I love. I just remember at the time, I
was like, oh, this is because I have foreign parents
and I don't have older siblings, so like, I don't
know what, I don't know where to, I have no
context for anything. And I remember every art musical artist
I would like, I would then immediately find out they
were considered lame. I'd be like, I love Simple Plan
because I saw them on MTV and I like love
the video where they're like the ceiling is crumbling around them.

(11:21):
And then people would be like, that's the lamest band.
That's like the one band you shouldn't like.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Thoughts, what are they listening to?

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, I think okay, so here's what it was, and
this is gonna sound insane now. The quol kids were
listening to Dave Matthews band and it was cool that
they knew what that was.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
That's so like Big Sister.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
It's literally bragging about having context for America. It's like
it's being like you're an immigrant. I like Dave Matthews,
and there were you know, we didn't have Google. I
mean there was Google, but the idea that I would
understand what Dave Matthews like, I could not buy myself
without help understand the significance of Dave Matthew's man.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Well, one thing that is sort of not talked about
is that like frat culture did was cool for like
middle school and high schoolers because you were like, that's
what college kids like. So there was like a value
system of being like like it was cool to like
Dave Matthews and like oaar like like, oh, that would
be awesome if I like them, and but it didn't

(12:25):
ever speak to me in a real way.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
It really feels like I'm the camp counselor and you're
the camper and I like Dave Matthews and totally yeah,
and then my CD case.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah. But I do think there were there must have
been kids in your Jersey school that thought like simple
plan was cool.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Not the cool ones.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh yeah, but that's also because I think cool in
a place like that is is just rich.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Can I say something another? No, is the thing I actually,
like I I wish it was that simple, but it was.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
It was.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
There was literally a hierarchy of cool and I just
couldn't crack it. Here's another example. I first time I
heard my Immortal by a Vanescence, I said, this girl
has pipes. This is a great band. Come to find
out that was also illegal at my school.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I just can't.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
It's like, how care, Yeah you guess what is legal?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah? Were you at a preppy school?

Speaker 2 (13:24):
I was at a preppy school.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, okay, then that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
But but then the old kids were somehow knowledgeable, Like
even the kids that would have liked Vanessence were somehow
knowledgeable enough to like Black Sabbath, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
What I mean?

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, yeah yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
So it was I was like the sort of you know,
kind of like I was just fed whatever whatever MTV
was feeding me. I was immediately slopping up, and they
were like, god, how pedestrian.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
There was this really interesting subculture when I was in
high school of like kids that dressed like they were
heavy metal. Like it was it like kind of verged
into skater territory or punk territory. But it was very
like David Lee Roth, like like heavy metal like pop

(14:10):
metal band, but they like all rolled together and like
had a harem of girls that were just kind of like,
we're all losing opportunity tonight. And it was so like
and I don't see that anymore. I know, Like, now,
what is.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Are you plugged into youth culture?

Speaker 1 (14:30):
I don't know?

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Asked me a question I have, Like I'm on TikTok.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I like, yeah, TikTok, but I was I had a
pretty jarring what is the Dave Matthews band of Now?
What is the sort of older what is the sort
of like the thing that your older sibling would introduce
you to that would make you cool? You know what
I mean?

Speaker 1 (14:49):
I don't know. Because now the Internet is so prominent,
older siblings don't gatekeep anymore. We need to bring back
the gate keepers.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
I mean I've said this forever.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah, God, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
You went to a year from New York, right, so you
were around, Like were you going to shows?

Speaker 3 (15:10):
I was. I was dating a musician when I was
in high school who is much older than me. Oh,
I know it's scandalous.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Is a huge celebrity.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
No, but I would go. I like learned a lot
about how to be on stage from being like a
roadie basically for this band, and I would go out
all night and like do do fun things that I
wasn't supposed to do?

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Were you doing?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (15:38):
No?

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Do you know it's funny that that's just like true,
like when you grew up in New York. That's just
like what happens. Is it like embarrassing when like you
meet like a twenty three year old who just moved here,
who's like, I want to fucking go out because you're like,
what are you twelve? Exactly?

Speaker 3 (15:55):
But also like I went to college in Minneapolis, so
did this kind of like personality one eighty for four
years and kind of like unlearned everything that I had
like built up in New York for credibility. And then
I moved back to New York immediately afterwards and had
to unlearn my personality one eighty and like and become

(16:17):
who I was four years prior.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Did you specifically want to be in a non New
York environment?

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah, The tuition was super cheap, which was like the
main reason. But I also was like this is.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
So random of me, Like this is going hunting on
all of.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
My cool friends. I was doing rebelling against this.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Much like the idea that Dave Matthew's band is cool.
There's something about being a New York kid. I've noticed
that many people who grew up in New York where
they almost fetishize like middle class suburbia totally because it's
like something it's their version of someone not from New York.
Watching you know, Harmony Krin's kids or something. It's like
it's like, oh my god, they're doing what they're going

(16:57):
to malls.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
No, totally did feel like a culture shock. Uh yeah.
But also I was so like head to toe black,
like like look at my metro card, like kind of
like you were such a snob about it, Like the first.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Card was like like oh it just fell out, Like
I just have to get around back where I'm from.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
No.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, And I would like I had like a mini
fridge in my dorm that literally just had ginger ale
and rum in it, and I would just have my
friends over and I would like play like pull up
my iTunes library and like, oh, I bet you entertained.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
So many songs that what was what was on the roster,
what was on the iTunes library?

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Gosh, I was so obsessed with Animal Collective and Blonde
Redhead and that kind of stuff. Yeah, so like like
stoner music kind of yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
God, indie rock and call. I know, I didn't quite
like it.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Wait, I almost this is a hard pivot, but I'm
almost like, before we do our first segment, should we do?
You want to like promote stuff now so that we
can like get everyone listening, you know, and then we
do segments.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Whatever whatever you think I can do that.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah. I put out a record in September called and
His Splash Band that was so good, Thank you, and
that was really fun to make, and I toured it
around and now I'm mostly just writing well and new stuff.
And I released the Covers EP where I covered some

(18:39):
of my favorite songs.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
You know, have you listened to the Sabrina Carpenter cover?

Speaker 4 (18:45):
No.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I covered Sabrina, which I met Sabrina too, which was
really cool. I played this like Jack Antonov benefit thing.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, she's note you guys, please donate, and that's what
you're here to promote tonight. Please donate, Please donate. Is
not doing well that album is.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
I can hear the beeping of the hospital right now.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
No, but I remember she was He did a really
nice thing where he was like, Sabrina like Liam covered
you and I kind of just usually when I'm kind
of at a loss for words, I just say like
it's beautiful, like you know, like I say something like
really earnest like that I don't necessarily wouldn't have necessarily

(19:35):
come naturally to me. But she was like, taste is
beautiful and I was like, yeah, I think it's a
really beautiful song. She's like, I've never heard that before
from anyone.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
He's like, so you've never heard it. She's like, so
you're not listening.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
And then I was like guards and then I pulled
out no.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
I was like it sounds like the Doobie Brothers to me,
and that's what I said to her, I mean, and
she was like yeah, and we like talked about Michael McDonald.
It was very weird.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
She's really She's really cool.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I was wondering this actually, like what is your relationship
to like I feel like the lines between like indie
and like pop are more blurred these days, and like
when you like, what how do you view like the
pop girls?

Speaker 3 (20:20):
I I like the pop girls. I wanna I love
I love Pink Pantheress I love ethel Caine.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Oh my god, we love it.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
I love who I consider like. I think Charlie's great,
I think Sabrina's great. I think they're all cool. I
like I think that there's like a freak factor drought
in music right now, like where, which is why I
like so like the Gaga record, like I love, I

(20:51):
like it. I love her because of her like talent,
and I don't even like I wouldn't necessarily like love
all her music, but ippreciate that she has the gall
to like be so musical theater with like abrikadabra or something,
and like no one else really has the gall necessarily,

(21:12):
and like, I just want a freak so bad.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, it's tough because the Charlie did to an extent,
the like whole Brat era could have ushered in a
more freak forward pop landscape, but I actually sort of
don't think it did. And I think everyone who attempted
to emulate the Brat thing. I mean, I'm immediately thinking
of like Katie Perry trying to be Camilla and Camilla

(21:40):
like it never felt quite authentic.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
No, Yeah, have you heard the new Selena Gomez song that's.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Like Charlie song. Yeah she wrote it, but it's like
so good. Yeah, no, I'm I'm glad Charlie is getting
her flowers. Yeah, like yeah, lots of people have said that.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
I watched like the end of her Coachella thing on
the internet. Oh yeah, and it was so I was
still like, I because you think you're gonna get tired
of it and you're like, no, this is so fun.
Like it's just like you know, text being like what
am I doing? I'm should I still be doing? Brat?
Is this embarrassing?

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Really?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah? And it was like I was like, this is great,
that's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Catherine was saying she was like, it's good that the
coolest person is is a millennial. Like that's like, oh wait,
you know what I mean. It's like, oh and for
now at least we have we have that totally.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
That's a really good point.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
First segment.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Our first segment is called straight Shooters, and in this segment,
we ask you a series of rapid fire questions to
gauge your familiarity with incomplicity and straight culture. You have
to choose one thing or another thing you have to
go with your gut and the one rule is you
can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works,
and if you do, it will be so.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Angry with you. I'm gonna try my best, good George, you.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Go first, though, speaking out or chasing clout, chasing clout,
sloppy seconds or yester years yester years, subway delays or
birthday malays, subway delays.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Living your truth or living in Duluth.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Uh, living in Duluth.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
St him or my bestie Sium.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
My bestI Sium for sure mind similar coping mechanisms or
hoping for orgasisms, hoping for orgasisms definitely.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Breaking up Monopoly power or waking up aboard the Mayflower.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Wow, breaking up Monopoly.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yes, that's try at Coachella Wow. Okay. We rank everyone's
performance on the scale of zero to one thousand Doves
of Grass, but now we to zero to one thousand
Blades of Grass.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
But I don't know if it's catching on yet. I
guess we'll see no.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
But I like that we're growing and changing.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
It's very iconic to choose the single least discussed song
on the album Blades of Grass all love to make
the name of our our segment.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
That's that's really well, yes, what else would we do? Okay,
zombie boys? Yo.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I mean there is something about zero one thousand doves
that really rolled off the tug. But I'm getting used
to blades of grass. And I also like the idea
that we would give someone a gift of here you
seven hundred blades of grass.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, there's some thousand shadows of Yeah, let's.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Do for this one. Let's do zero to one thousand
shadows of a man.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and say seven.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Shadows of the can Congratulations, okay, And I can't ask why. Okay, Well,
we bask.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
I thought you did a great job. We rank it
based on performance.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
It's basically a performance.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Based I would say, you were so confident and you
were so like chill about it, and it was like
you had done it before. I guess I would say
it was almost like you were chill dambing us in
the sense that you were like not impressed with and
yeah you were like okay, yeah, it was sort of

(25:25):
like you were like, all right, it went too quick. Yeah.
I think you know, sometimes we appreciate a little a
little like.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
You know, I've been I'm in the practice or in
the in the occupation of tokenizing myself as gay guys
surrounded by straight band boys. So you know, I have
to I have to be the chill do I see?

Speaker 1 (25:55):
That must be.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Hard, you know, yeah, yeah, what is your what is.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
It is difficult? What is your strategy for being the
only gay guy in the room?

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Sometimes, well, you I feel like, uh, actually, most recently,
on this tour that I did in Europe, I was
touring with this band of straight guys and they were
all toring together, but I was toying by myself. So
I truly would not have uttered a word to a
single person on my travel day to arrive at the venue,

(26:30):
and then I would get into the green room and
I would be like, gab, gab, gab, gab, gap, like
not stop, like clown show. And that's I think where
I I end up. So you were kind of going,
like entertainer, I do become diva and I become kind
of crass and sassy, and and they love it. They

(26:52):
love to hear it. Yeah, I'm smacking them on the ass.
I'm saying show me your cock.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Oh yeah, fun stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
We do that at the iHeart Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
No, totally. That hallway that you walk to get the
tunnel of hits actually, if I was, if I was hungover, no,
it hurts, it hurts.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
It's enough to make your turn around and walk back.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
You have to be strong to get through.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Yeah, yeah, cool.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Should we get into straight topic?

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, I'm very curious what your straight topic?

Speaker 2 (27:26):
What's your straight topic? And what do you think is
straight about it?

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (27:29):
So I think okay, So hobbies like hobbies that you
uh do in public? I walking the streets of New
York lately have been seeing a lot of yo yo's
happening from amongst boys and men, and then and then

(27:51):
more men more recently stunting on me with ball and cup.
Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 (27:58):
You know exactly what you're talking about. Like balling cup
is the old school style game.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
The Depression era wooden toy.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
They try to get a ball on a string into a.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Cup, into a cup, and they're just kind.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Of casually like yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Talking to their friends with the ball and cup.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
And these are how are they? How are they dressed?

Speaker 3 (28:18):
They're dressed like, you know, like wife beater, Yeah, the
flannel like uh like skater legged pants, white legged pants
or it's kind of more on like the metro like
uh espresso, espresso cup, skateboard like uh earing thing.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Ye, sort of like scene could be located in any
major American or European city.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, it's like if men's wear. It's like an offshoot
of like bay Blades, but yeah, right they're listed like, well,
I don't want to give that yet.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
That's the big thing is that it is like fidgeting
for the last decade has been huge. Yeah, like bay Blades,
the fidget spinners. Ye, it's been very cool to have
a little toy with you. Yeah if you were like twelve,
ten years ago and now you're twenty two and you're
like cool, and you're like, well, I still got to
play with my toy.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
No exactly, I sti't need to play with my toy
and I can't give you my full attention. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
This is such a rich topic because it's the intersection
of so much stuff around the crisis and masculinity. So
on the one hand, we have the return to analog.
It's a sort of you know, Vinyl Resurgence adjacent type thing, like,
of course I'm going to play with wooden toys rather
than an iPhone app, So there's that. Then there is

(29:47):
a sort of I'm sorry to say this, but a
sort of performance of autism that I find is like
conscious among men who almost like want to show you
how little they care totally, so they're just like it's
almost an extension of like the businessman having a little
basketball hoop in his office and doing that while he's
in a meeting with a woman. Yeah, but it's the

(30:10):
contemporary skater version of that.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
M M.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Then there is the kind of semi ironic back to
baby movement, which is like grown men in their thirties
dressing and acting like babies almost as a way to
like reject It's almost like a response to frankly like wokeness.
It's like, rather than caring about the election, I'm in

(30:35):
a crib, Like i am literally like I'm wearing clothes
that do not fit me, and I'm like walking in
the middle of the street because I just like don't really,
I'm going to all the sidewalk and I'm playing with
you know, up toy for babies.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Do you think that it's about being seen though, like
about others or is that gay?

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Well that's the thing is like it is it is
about being seen, but you don't have the courage to
do something to be a diva. You don't have the
courage to like walk walk into a room and start belting.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
What would be really gay is if like they were
just like dragging the ball behind and it wasn't going
in the cup and their.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Dad was like play with it. Yeah, like no, Yeah.
I think there's also something where it is like you're
trying to show that you're part of the group. Like
that's part of it too, where you're like I remember
like hacky sack culture and really sort of wanting to
be like, well, maybe I could be into hacky sack culture,
Like I could immediately have four friends if I just

(31:39):
we're into this a little bit, and so it's like
a quick way into friendship. Yeah, that obviously is a
little bit sad, but at the same time, you know,
it's better than no way into friendship.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah yeah, baby, performance maybe performance.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
There's also it's like all of it comes down to
like can you believe I'm doing this?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
You know what I mean? Okay, I fully I wonder
how you'll feel about this as someone in uh sort
of music indie circles where I feel like that's such
a thing, though, is to like have a thing that
is like oh, that's like blah blah blah, he blows
bubbles all the time, like and it's like I remember
those guys, Like I meet guys that were like, oh

(32:24):
he like dresses like that, I know, and you like
have to have a thing.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
It used to be like heroin total it would have
been like actually cool.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, now it's macha No exactly, No, it does it
almost It's like the character in the Prince's Diaries, the
love interest who plays the piano when there's m and
ms on it, you know what I mean. Or it's
like Zachary Quipto and Girls where he just has a
tooth brush in his mouth.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
No, totally, huh. I love it. I love that it
is kind of deeply anti social. Yes, it's deeply anti.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Social, and it's just like another way. It's like another fuck.
It's actually like the same as a businessman being on
his phone doing emails, but you're just doing the old
version of that.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
No, totally. I talk about this with my therapist a lot,
where I want to be like more cavalier and kind
of and I kind of associate like walking around with
the toothbrush in your mouth to be cavalier. Yeah, and
kind of eccentric and yeah yeah, and I've always wanted
to be more of that. No, you like watch like
old Courtney Love interviews and stuff and be like, well,

(33:30):
she's like one of the smartest people in the world,
but like she just like stuff like that and pick
something that is my thing.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah, But I wonder where is the line between when
you see Corney Love doing that, it's so incredible and
seems so authentic, and when you see a guy in
Dimes Square that's like yo yo ing, You're like, I
want to punch him in the face. Yeah, And what
is it that, Like, what is the difference? I mean,

(33:58):
other than you know, whatever one is.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
I think a lot of them are rich kids, and
I feel like, if you're rich, it's your responsibility to
flaunt it and be like a dandy, like a fancy guy,
you know. And if you're not a fancy guy, then
like then you don't deserve you don't deserve to be
a fancy guy. Like it's like totally like why are

(34:21):
you playing with a wooden toy?

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Like right, right, right, right, you should be like in
a three piece suit and a pipe totally like I
would be so under tipping away that like weird.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Like haberdasherie like culture. Like uh, okay, so maybe kind
of cooler than.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Okay, thank you for bringing a class analysis in no,
because that is true, because you don't. It is like
a there is something about those guys where regardless of
how to shovel they look, they are ultimately weirdly wearing
like supreme like they are actually wearing expensive clothing.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Well, this is this is something I'm struggling with in general,
where the more I'm like around in the world, like
I kind of thought everybody was on the same page,
and now I'm like, oh, nobody's on the same.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Nobody's on the same page. The culture has never been
more fractured.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
And like literally the price of people's clothes. I was like, oh,
everybody's doing exactly the same as me. And it's like
not even clothes, like that random T shirt is three
hundred dollars and like I had no idea and they're like, well, yeah,
like of course, and they think that's normal. It's freaking
me out.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yes, But then there's also like the there's also the
other side of that, which is almost like bragging about
how you are wearing how you have a bunch of
expensive stuff that you didn't pay for because you are
plugged into communities where that stuff gets passed around. Yeah,
and actually the ability to know the difference is also
this in group dynamic of like the contemporary version of

(35:57):
like woman of like quiet luxury versus is you know,
loud wealth.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Do you still see people in your orbit ever like
fit like thank a brand for giving them anything, you know,
like they bought it that I've never considered.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
I think, I think, do you think people are doing that?
But even though they bought it, know that they can
get more.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
I have to say, no, one that we know.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Okay, I've always wanted to do I've always wanted to
do that as a bit and I'm literally terrified that
some people will take it seriously. Like I'm trying to think,
what I like buying something that you would like even
just like Starbucks or you know, something stupid and then
and then being like thank you Starbucks. But I'm just

(36:44):
like terrified at this point that one person would think
I was serious.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Well do you want to try it for blue bottle?
Thanks Blue bottle without you, I couldn't podcast.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
What brand would you like to send you free stuff? Yeah,
like a like a nice sunscreen okay, you got a.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
High yeah, uh, I'm seeing it head to toe. Gucci?

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, Gucci Gucci.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Okay, great Gucci. So either sunscreen or Gucci ideally both,
you know, or like coffee, actually coffee, I mean I do.
I've always fetishized the concept of a lifetime supply of something.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Of course, well I have to, but I have always
gotten caught up in sort of what that means legally.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Sure. Well, also then the way it's tax I don't
even want to lie. They said that you're actually like
more poor than you've ever read, and also being sued
by four people.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Did you ever watch a celebrity Big Brother UK with
Pete Burns and Dennis Rodman?

Speaker 1 (37:53):
No?

Speaker 3 (37:53):
No, then it's it's like high art. It's like incredible,
And there's this they like make you rat your food
on that show, like you have to like win challenges
in order to like get bed.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
In this way.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
It's really dark. But they all as a house decided
that they wanted to forfeit the food in exchange for
coffee and cigarettes, and that was like the coolest thing
I've ever seen on TV. And it's like them in
the interview room being like all we want is coffee
and cigarettes, like get rid of everything else. That's what

(38:27):
I want my lifetime to supply.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Sometimes I bump up against this idea that reality TV
is high art because it's like such a classic thing
where people like Real Housewives is Shakespeare and I'm like, no,
it's not. And then you hear things like that and
you're like it is.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
But those seasons they have, like there was like a
member of Parliament on it, and they're like, it's like
there's like an old person, a young person, d D
D like it. It feels very like surreal and weird.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
I want to go back to the idea of having
a thing.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, okay, have you ever had a thing?

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Oh? A thing?

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (39:04):
I used to imitate Mariah Carey for money in my
after school program.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
When I was a kid when you say for before
my voice had change, but in the affter.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
School, so what was like, like I would just I
would fully do the like head voice like and I
was good, I could do it. Whoa and uh I
would they would They would give me like fifty cents
it was like bust.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
It was during the depression.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah. Uh, but I don't know a thing.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Like a passive thing.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, I'm trying to think.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
I feel like in college, I kept trying to have
a thing.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Like what were the things you tried?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Well, I like I had these like insane bright red shoes,
and I was like, that's my thing, isn't the guy
with red shoes?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Well you went through a phase which I'm noticing is
less so now where you were really leading into cowboy
look and that was your thing.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Ran. Yeah, I mean I'm still I'm still I'm finding
a happy medium with the cowboy thing.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
This is the most like twenty tens American apparel thing.
But when I was in college, I want I was like,
my thing will be like bright colored cords like corduroys,
and like I will have like a bright blue one
of like sort of like burgundy one, a bright red one,
a bright yellow one, and I bought a bunch and
then like a month later, I was.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Like, what the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Like I can't I can't commit to this, Like I
was just like I don't have and I would. I
bumped into the fact that it would be then very
difficult to style them with anything totally. So I was
like I looked like completely insane in those worlds.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Well know, the great thing about like loud pants is
that everything else can be.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I know, but I like didn't plan for that. So
I just had like T shirts that were like from
you know, urban outfitters and they said like pugs not drugs.
Oh god, yeah, talk about Minneapolis.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
I know. I definitely wanted to be like, my thing
is that every day I have a funny T shirt.
Yeah that was like high school totally, but that's that's normal.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
I remember when I was in middle school and still
in New Jersey, I was obsessed with I didn't have
the courage to do this, but I was like I
wish I could pull up a bandana like boy band style.
Like I was just like, what if I just can
put on a white bandana or like a green bandana
and come to school?

Speaker 3 (41:20):
You could have just done it. Yeah, it's hard, but
it again difficult to style well everything else. That's the thing.
It's like you pick one, I know, and then everything
else can be drab.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
What you also forget when you're a kid is like
because you don't have control of like how you're getting
places and and you don't have your own money. It's
like what you're saying, like, oh yeah, just buy a
bunch of basics. It's like that's a month long problem.
That is like multiple trips to the mall, like asking
your parents be like really, wow with I really want
you're going to wear?

Speaker 1 (41:51):
And maybe like.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
I feel like I was very like cross body bag
before it was like before it was a thing. Yeah,
And I was also victim to like chunky heel like
you know, like chunky heel shoe like but like keep
it leisure thing. I was like very much like all

(42:14):
my shoes are gonna look like that like sketchers like thing.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, but have you ever tried to pull off like
a like overalls?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Of course you don't remember my overall? Oh you do?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
You you could pull them up. See that's exactly how
I think I could never pull.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Off or like see the thing is having a thing
is so much easier in New York. Yeah. I could
try so many things here and you would be like, yeah,
he's trying a thing in LA. If you try to think,
people are like what does this say about you? They're
like why why would you do that. And that's so.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Funny because in LA, my image of like walking around
Silver Leg is like you see a couple and the
man is like fifty years old and wearing Vans and
the woman is full rockabilly and like twenty five, and
you just like can't question it.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
It's crazy how the like Bomian like Safari desert thing
has still not died. No, No, it's so it's so Hardashery.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Well, that's the thing. New York versus LA is one
of our favorite topics. But essentially what this podcast the
same with LA is like, on the one hand, it
is you would think on the cutting edge of culture,
since they are producing all the culture that everyone else consuming.
On the other hand, you go there and it's so
two thousand and seven.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
No, fully, yeah, big hat, Yeah, the big books are everywhere.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
It's well, that's because New York is trying to impress
New York. LA is trying to impress the Midwest. Wow,
so they came to Edgy or they'll.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
These that's true. Heleen hit the base.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
No, that's so so true.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
I find it very upsetting even because yeah, here when
you see someone who's dressed like really normal, you're like, well,
they're doing that on purpose. There's like a knowledge there
and they're You're like they don't know, they just they
just don't know. God, it's nice to be here and
just be able to ship talk. Yeah, thank god.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Okay yo yo's okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Fidgeting, Yeah, figeting?

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Are you a fidget for sure?

Speaker 3 (44:14):
I'm like a nail bier. Oh yeah, until or like
I recently was like really really trying not to, but
I recently relapsed.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Oh no, how'd that go for you?

Speaker 3 (44:28):
I was watching a movie and I just suddenly they
were gone and it was a real nail blighter.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah. Yeah, great thing you can do about that be
on your phone as well. Yeah, and then you won't
be better.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Well, this is where I'm when it comes to back
to Gabee straight of course, is that straight guys are
playing Wooden Cup game whereas gay guys are looking for
sex on their phone.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
But I actually like think the Wooden Cup game is better.
Like I would love to reclaim Wooden Cup Game and
yoyo in a different context.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Well, you know, the progremis of this podcast isn't that
gay is better than straight? Of course, Sometimes it's that
straight is better than gay. I actually would love to
play Wooden cup Game rather than be on sniffy is
looking at random dicks. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, I think we need to invent a new fidgeting
thing that's sort of like specifically targeted towards gay guys
and maybe even the entire LGBTQ plus community. And I
wonder what that would be.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Imagine if so, whenever we go out of town for
a show, Imagine if instead of sitting in the hotel
room for three hours looking at the various apps, we
were playing cup game. We would be so good at
cup Game.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
What about like de stressor like the like the balls
with the bells in them where you like you know
what I mean, or the or like a.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Squeezer or one of those things that's like full of
blue liquid and little dolphins.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm actually the most It's like we're
not on Snippy's but we're just doing this.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
It was jerking off a dolphin.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
That's actually an amazing idea and talk about a thing. Yeah,
if that was my thing.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Oh, people would be yeah you that is definitely the
gay version of having a yo yoga is just having
those like the gayest glittery or like leaking, just like
glittery blue liquid and little like beach balls and dolphins
flying everywhere.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
That would be so great. Oh my god, I've actually recently.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
When it's vapes, Oh it's babes.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
It's definitely vabes. And also for a certain subset. I
know this is also on the phone, but for a
certain subset, it's like New York Times games, you know
what I mean. It's like it's word or it's crossword puzzle.
That's a big yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
In many ways, it's it's reading a book.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Sometimes I'm like, instead of three hours on an app,
I could just read a book and like get pretty far.
That realization has only hit me the last year.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
I know. It's sort of crazy that all you have
to do is put your phone in a different room
and you could read a book.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
You would read a whole book and you'll feel better.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Yeah, you know what I'm jealous of you for and
people that are like artists that are not writers or
I mean, I know you're also a writer, but like
ours that are not like primarily like writing in a
Google doc.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
You know. I love about No.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
No, it's like because I know friends who aren't like
to be a musician, to be a painter, to be
a sculptor, you literally have to use your hands for
what you are doing. Totally, and can you imagine if
we had that luxury, like to wake up every day
and be a painter and be like I literally cannot
pick up my phone.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
No, that would be nice.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Or I'm I'm in the studio, as I know there's
some downtime, but like I'm in the studio recording, and
so I have to have my guitar on mem you.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Essentially, it's like how I feel when I eat a burrito.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
I'm like, well all we have is eating a burrito.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Do you understand, like at least I can't be touching my.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Friend minute, Yeah exactly. Yeah, it's nice. But also like
most of my time is spent like like head in
the clouds, like walking around like writing in my head.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Do you ban yourself from like do you take walks
that are like no tech?

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Yeah? Sometimes I think that's a big thing. Totally.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
We should maybe try out at some point, I should
try it out, you know. James Cherry, Yeah, he recently
put he recently posted like he bought a laptop and
he was like it's crazy to like you guys are
not gonna believe this, but this is sort of the
first laptop I've ever bought, because he was just like, yeah,
I am an artist that works with my hands. I
when I went to college, I went to art school. Presumably,

(48:35):
I'm not. I'm not sure. It's like he's the default
of like you wake up, you're on a laptop has
never existed.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
For him, right because also like if he needs an email,
he can use his phone exactly. That's interesting, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, well, just let me think about did you ever
have like the little phone, like when people kind of
were regressing on purpose and getting like dumb little Nokia,
Like that's the thing. It's like I don't have the
much like the not having the courage to wear a bandon.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
That I'm like, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, Like I exist in the state of desire for
the better thing, but I'm but I would never actually
take the step to get there. Would you ever get
a dumb phone?

Speaker 1 (49:14):
No? No way. I also like the convenience of just
like a map is.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Yea, no, totally, that's like so much of it.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
But they have that's the thing. There's phones that have
texting and.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Map I'm not buying it. I've never seen one of
these phes in my damn wife. It's like it's too hard.
I mean, I actually think it's bad for you. This
is my Okay, here's a hot take. I think it's
bad when people are like, I'm checking out of everything
and I'm living this life like I'm like like when
the Lord was like, I don't use social media anymore.

(49:47):
I'm like, Okay, well, you're gonna lose touch with what
society is. I don't think she has. I think she
did lose touch, and I think she's back and she's
in touch again.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
You think she lost touch with solar power.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Well as a solar power stand, yes, I think she
lost touch, and I think it was an important part
of her journey. But I think she lost touch.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I see what you're saying. You're saying her commentary on
you know, sort of like Pilates and being California Sober
did not feel of its time.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
No.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Everybody's line about that record is it will age. Well,
that's what I hear every gig I say, But it
will I think it will understand on it. I think
I kind of agree.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
I agree too, because I think that the issue was
at the time, no one wanted that kind of social
commentary because that's not quote unquote where we were at.
But at some point that just becomes universal, Like it
just becomes like a general those themes, Like those themes
exist in and out of culture forever.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Ray of Light happened to come out at the exact
right time for that to resonate. But what if Ray
of Light had come out in twenty two thousand and
three post nine to eleven. I don't think that would
have worked well.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
For the record, I've always supported solar power. Yeah, I
just think I do think she would just disconnect. Yeah, Like,
and that maybe was great for her individually, but as
someone trying to comment on society, it's complicated. Yeah. I mean,
so have you met Lord or I have? Was it? Was?

(51:17):
She nicer?

Speaker 3 (51:18):
She's great? So nice?

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Did you was it pre your post solar power post?
What you and did you say? H? Well, you know what.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
I said that to her and she said, thank you
for saying that to me. You did that.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
That's nice. That's nice.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
I do love that. That's the wait, that's you start.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
You met her at the Jack at Jack Antonov's Hospital.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Hospital bed she's in tears. She's like, Jack, well, should
we do our final segment?

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Is it time?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
We don't have to?

Speaker 1 (51:56):
No, we can. Well. I feel like it's that thing
of like when you say you're having so much fun.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
I know I'm having a lot of fun. I also
want to like gossip in.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
A way that we can't. We can't.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
I keep wanting to ask you things that I know
I shouldn't.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Oh try, No, come on, he told us about Lord. Yeah,
she's down to spills.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Hold us Jack sick?

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Okay, keeping that tight?

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Okay, give us all the music industry gossip. Oh my,
when's the sky for our album coming?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
I have no idea. I don't, honestly, I don't know
that much gossip. Yeah about it. I wish that I
knew more.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
I don't know who is.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
The biggest bitch in music?

Speaker 1 (52:42):
And you can't say Katie Perry. No.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
I I love that she's saying, what a wonderful world
in space.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
And not what a woman's world?

Speaker 3 (52:51):
That's deeply anti social behavior.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
It is crazy. Do you find that the space thing
is like so so many players of evil that you like,
can't even wrap your minds. I can't say, I can't
even say a sentence that like could wrap up my feelings.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
No about it. It's so like gratuitous every way, so gratuitous.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
I like feel bad for the people involved. I feel
even though they like willingly, I'm just like, this is
all horrible.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, and even the gratuitousness seems almost like the point,
it's almost like they all know it is and they're
skipping the part where they pretend it isn't It.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Would have been better if they were up there for longer.
I know, it was like a.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Day, nine months or yeah, several months mission. All you'd
have to do is like add a little charity element,
just be like and exactly. And we're bringing a make
a Wish kid. We're bringing Jack Antono, who's dying. His
final wish was to go to space with Katie Pear women. Yeah, he'said,
oh my god, that is so Jack ansenov to be like,

(53:50):
I love women and women women artists like Katy Perry,
and I want to go to space with Gail King
and Katy Perry. This is my final wish. I am
dying of, you know, synthesizer disease, and it is time
for me to have my.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Final wish that would have been so amazing and we
could have saved him.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
And we could have saved him. Yeah, it could have
been an interstellar. He comes back and he's twelve years old.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Yeah, I can't it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Okay, we have to tell you about Lozzo's Pass. Lozzo's
Pass is a concept Sam came up with where when
an up and coming musical artist is at the pass
where she has to decide between going Pitchfork and going Target.
So it's named after Lizzo, who chose Target. She was
an up and coming art as people forget, she was
very cool, like super, like a boring during a SLA

(54:40):
she chose Target. Chaperone is currently at the pass and
she's delay making a decision, but we support what We're scared,
but she and I would support either one. Heim chose Pitchfork,
Twigs chose Pitchfork, Lord chose Lord chose Pitchfork. Who's someone

(55:00):
who chose target?

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Hmmm, Tate McCrae.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, but it's like wish she ever she was never
at the Yes, she's never at the past anyway. The
point is if I mean.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
She's never even been to the past.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Oh, Tate McCray, do you feel like do you feel
like you're at the past? Do you feel like you've
been at the past or do you think it's coming.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Are you scared of the past? I've been at the
past about No, I've not been at the past. I've
just like I feel I don't know this. This sounds
kind of like trite because there's lots of things going
on in the world horrible.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
I can't think of anything.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
I still think there's a lot of homophobia and music
in a way where like gay guys don't want to
see other gay guys succeed, and there's a lot of
gatekeeping in this funny kind of way where like I've
been doing this for a long time, and uh, I'm
gonna keep doing it because it's like lifeblood. But I
feel like I don't know, like it's yeah, I get

(56:06):
like I talk about this with like a lot of
my like gay guy musician friends where we're all kind
of in this like funny situation where we're like doing
like these like songwritery things or whatever. But then you
still just have like Alex g and like m J.
Linderman and they just like dominate the like genius boy thing. Yeah,

(56:26):
and like that's cool, like they're great, They're really good,
but uh yeah, we wanna we want to throw it
back for some gay guy one day.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
So it's like I never considered that gay guys have
to choose pitch Forks exactly.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
This is forced upon them.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, because I mean, who was the last gay guy
to choose Target? Elton John Adam Lambert, Adam Lamb.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Adam Lambert Adam chose Target, And even then Target kind
of was like you can go in the clear and style.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Yeah, for sure, they're not putting him right in the
front with the Oprah's book Club selection.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
No, the Taylor swop CD is on tail choice.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Evon is kind of Oh that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
He's getting close. But I think in our bubble still,
like I feel like in our bubble he's a big
pop star. But in like like does my mom know
who choy Sevon is?

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Sam Smith, Sam Smith, Sam shows Target chose Target?

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Yeah, Sam said.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Chose So that's just that perfume genius chose pitch Fork.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yeah, but in an.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Empowered way, yes, absolutely. But I I think it's interesting.
The gatekeeping of it always interesting. What you're saying. It's
like there you're you can be as a gig guy
at the pass and you can see pitchwork on one end,
you can see Target on the other end. But there
is this like music exec guy that is in front
of the Target, and it's like do you have your

(57:43):
do you have your idea? And then sort of like
you're in a dream where you can't find your idea anywhere.
It's like not in any of your pockets. Wow.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Wow, I would hate to be at Lizzo's Pass and
not have my idea.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Yeah, Lizzo's Pass is so funny.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
We yesterday we our guest yesterday and Durian and Saint
Felix was saying that potentially there's a world in which
you could visit Target but then be like, all right,
I have like like Kim, yes, that's a great example.
And then I go back and be like and now,
all right, that was fun. I visited Target time to
go pitch for her.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Yeah, I'm excited. I'm very excited for what she does next.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
I have friends that have been working with her.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
She always keeps us.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
On her chose and I think people really want to
discount her.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
They really do. People are actually so cruel to her. Yeah,
for no reason. Well, but I'm on her side is
what I'm saying. I will follow her.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Yeah, I will follow her as well.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Yeah what if York chose target, then it'd be really good.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Almost when she wrote the Madonna song, that was like
the most target she could possibly get, but it was
like yeah, that time stories, but that was still I know.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
I think the most target she went was doing you
know no, no, no, no, the you boy It's so
quiet yeah yeah yeah, but that was like it was
like that was pretty Yeah, that was so like Christmas time.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
But I think that was like a commentary on a
show tune.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
It was like, well it's her being like freaky dey yes,
like yes, but still it's like I remember when that
was like the ad for like Sex and the City. Yeah,
and like Sara Disca Parker's like with the big like
the red balloons and stuff.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Speaking of I think you know who really was at
Pitchwork and Chows target is Jesse Ware Oh yeah, because
that that one album that I'm pigting the name of
the Distance one. Yeah, that was so Pitchwork was like
this is so fun. And then the follow up.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
But then she was like I have a tortoise out yea.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Yeah, and a podcast was then like Pearls was like
this and just like that song and it was like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
That was that was sad.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
That was a bummer.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
And now she's just like she has like a mommy podcast.
Yes it's literally like what it's like, like what it's
like being a mommy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
But it's her and her mom and the premise is
that they're eating dinner and with a guest. Do you
get to hear all the like, yeah, there was.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
No, Well that's kind of funny.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Oh god.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
I saw her Coachella twenty twelve.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
How was it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
She was great. She's I was front row because no
one else knew about it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Now she is great. I went to one of the
twenty twenty two shows whatever and she.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Was great and she was being so British. It was
just like, I mean, it was obviously at two pm
because she was not like one of the headliners at
the time, and it was just like her. And there
was a stool that had a mug of tea on it,
like you could see the tea bag. That's cool, and
she was just like take a sip of tea and
then do you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Know we'll talk about having a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
That's another Yeah, she love to have like a ooh
musicians up to have it like in your rider, yeah, or.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Like even like the guy from the National always has
a glass of red wine on stage or like you know,
like there's like all.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
That thing that is some straight shit that I cannot
deal with.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
The like yeah, keep going, keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
I mean I'm just like I don't I don't know
why you saying the National.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
It was just like triggering, Like I mean there were
natal triggering uh in regards even if you are a
fan of the National, which I think they have some
great songs, they hear about the Nationalist triggering.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah, it implies a culture.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Yeah, it's it's just like I think it's because I
see like how men age in music, like where how
all of them kind of just go to like blazer town,
Like they all kind of just like suddenly it's just
like I have to own a blazer and I have
to wear it on stage, and I have to like

(01:01:52):
not shave as much. Although I mean like sometimes that's cool,
like in a surge Gainsborgie kind of way where you're
like uncamped and it's a part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
But like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
But he's kind of like an honor I mean well,
he's French, so it doesn't it's changes, it's completely different.
But I do want this is actually.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
A great idea for just like a long magazine feature
that's just like checking in on all the men of
the twenty twelve Pitchfork era, like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Like like yeah, and like yeah dirty projector.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Dirty Projectors, even like Bonie Vere, like just like where
are they? What did they look like then? And what
do they look like now? Because that is sort of
there's a Pitchfork versus Target of Fashion.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Well it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
It's Blazer Town or there's or hype Blazer or hype Beast.
I think are the two options. Don't you think.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Who's hype Beast? That's I do think.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Boni ver I was I recently video of him where
he's wearing like a bright orange hoodie.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
That's like in a Wisconsin way Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
And he's also really really rich and that's like that's
like rich Man drag where you're like, uh, hoodie, sweatpant
like leisure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
For some reason, I'm standing boniv right now.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
I know everyone is defending I haven't listened to the news.
Everyone says it's great, it's age really well age really really.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
Yeah, yeah, when what year is gonna what year will
need solar power? Really bad?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
That's a good that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Yeah, this summer is solar power. It's solar power summer.
I'm cold, it's not it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
But like it'll make a comeback like fruit fruit Yeah,
like murder on the dance Floor. Oh yeah, where it's
in a movie.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Yes, exactly, by the way, I think you know, it
should make a comeback. Allah, Murder on the dance floor
is feels so good by sunik?

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Is that not bad?

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
I feel like that it did it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Yeah, not on TikTok.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
No, it's not even TikTok. Just like it's like you
hear hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Okay, Yeah, as long as you're hearing it, my work
is done.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Yeah, okay, Okay, now I think we can do fine, Okay,
let's okay. So I find it's like it's called shout outs,
and in this segment we pay homage to the grand
straight tradition of the radio shout out, shouting out to
anything that we enjoy. People place these things ideas.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
When we think of them on the spot. Why we're
both contemplating, which is why we are.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Both contemplate, Oh God, what will it be? I And
what I'm struggling with is like I wish I had
a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
I know, Oh right, totally. Yeah, That's definitely what I'm
struggling with as well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Because you know, sometimes I'm okay with being like whatever.
I'm just thinking, no, no, no, I want, I want,
I want to, I want, I want the bank substance.
I know I want substance too, and and yet I
don't have it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
What's up, freaks of losers? I want to give a
shout out to substance. That's right, saying something and having
it have gravity, have it have meaning, and having it
have lasting power, much like Lord's solar power. Saying something
that will age well because it's not directly commenting on
the culture of the time. It's not a response to something,
and it's not reactive. It is something that is a
fully formed idea that is going that is ahead of

(01:05:15):
its time, and that is going to at some point
create a paradigm shift that will then lead to more substance.
And in that sense, it's also generative. So shout out
to if you open your mouth, try to say something
with substance rather than substance.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Who wow, Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, okay, I got one. Okay,
what's ups and perfects around the globe. I want to
give a huge shout out to my physical therapist. I
have been doing physcal therapy for my back and this
woman knows my body more than anyone on earth. I'm
learning stretches that you wouldn't even believe, and guess what,
they are effective, and I'm saying, why.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Aren't we taught this goals?

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
We need to learn how to stretch properly. Did you
know I've been when you bend down to reach your toes.
I've been doing it wrong my whole life and You're like,
how can you bend down wrong? It's possible. I was
bending from my back and not from my pelvis, and
guess what, I've never been able to touch my toes
and that's why. Isn't that crazy? Anyway? I think when
we are more in touch with our bodies, we will

(01:06:17):
finally be free and living in Lord's solar power universe.
So shout to my physical therapist. I love you, xoxo.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Say who high freaks. I want to shout out the
auto play feature on television streaming because I need. I
need to just leave the TV on for my dog
when I leave so that he doesn't have a panic attack.

(01:06:48):
And then wait, and then one other thing. This is
truly in a moment, as you can tell, or it's dull.
But speaking of physical therapy, I want to shout out
to the guy in my yoga class that left in
the middle and said this is too hard to the
class because bravery. Yeah, that's that's like freak behavior. That's

(01:07:12):
really cool. Shout out yeah, with the gear straight straight see,
I love.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
That being able to defeat.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Was it hot yoga?

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Hot yoga?

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Sometimes they turn it way. Sometimes there's a panic there,
there's panic. I don't know if it's actually healthy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Yeah, I questioned it as well, but I've definitely wanted
to run out before. What did the teacher came out?
I feel they always say like and whatever you do,
don't let don't leave the room if you're you know,
lie down. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
No, she didn't comment on it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Wow, I know, hello police.

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
Yeah, and she and she was pregnant.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
The teacher was pregnant.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
The teacher was pregnant. Baby gonna baby gonna be hot?

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Is that safe for not to police pregnant women's bodies,
but get out of there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
No yoga yoga worms is like a different thing entirely. Yeah,
shout out yoga worms.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Yeah, yoga worm.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
You guys did that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
You did that? You ate you ate well, thanks so
much for doing this, Thanks, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
For having me, and once again, please tell people, Yeah,
listen to my record and his splash band and I'm
I'm I'm cooking right now, so stay tuned. Ok just cooking.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Okay, So you're at Jackas Hospital, bub Bye bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Podcast and now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for
two extra episodes a month, discord access and more by
heading to patreon dot com. Slash Stradio Lab and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
For all our visual earners, free full length video episodes
are available on our YouTube now Get back to work.
Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money
Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Created and hosted by George Severs and Sam Taggart.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Hans Sonny and Olivia Aguilar.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Co produced by Bai Wang, Edited and engineered by adam Able.
Artwork by Michael Philes and Matt Gruff.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Theme music by Ben Kling