Disney's head of gaming Sean Shoptaw gives a deeper look at the Mouse House's top 2023 titles and reveals big plans for capitalizing on IP next year.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast feature and conversations
about the business of media and entertainment. I'm TV business
writer Jennifer Moss. Twenty twenty three was a big year
for Disney gaming. From the huge debut for Marvel's much
anticipated Spider Man two in October, to the move of
Disney Dream Light Valley out of its year long data
(00:29):
phase into its hard launch in December, and the recent
release of Avatar Frontiers of Pandora. The Disney team and
its outside developers and publishing partners have been hard at work,
and with the announcement of a new Blade game tied
to the upcoming Marvel movie during the twenty twenty three
Game Awards, things don't appear to be.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Slowing down for the Moss Houses Gaming division.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Here to talk about focusing on licensing versus developing in house,
the future of generative AI and gaming, the pros and
cons of user general to content, the power of Disney IP,
and what big titles are coming in twenty twenty four
and twenty twenty five. Is Disney Senior Vice President of
Games and Interactive Experiences, Sean shop Talk and We're back
(01:21):
with Sean Shopta head of Disney's Gaming.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Sean.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm so excited to have you here. We're starting to have.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
More people in gaming on the Strictly Business podcast, and
I'm really excited to have you so closely to two
big things in gaming this week, one the Game.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Awards, and then two even.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
More important to me, the launch of a rift and
time expansion for dream Light Valley, Big Big dream Light Valley.
Finn already seen several hours into that expansion this week.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Sean, so so excited to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'd like to start out just if you could start
with your own back and how you came into the
position you're currently in.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Sure, well, first off, thanks for having me, Jenny, really
happy to be here. Appreciate the time I've been at
Disney a little over twelve years now. I started out
in business development and strategy over the games and media
businesses for the company, and then about five years ago
in twenty eighteen, I took over and started running the
(02:24):
games business, which is the role I obviously am currently
in as well. So been about twelve years at the
company and the last five or so overseeing the games business.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So that people you know, I don't know how much
our listeners know about the different ways that the gaming
divisions are broken down at this point, but can you
give kind of a high level overview of the gaming
division structure at Disney right now?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
So, we obviously have a robust team across all franchises.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
So we've got a Marvel Games team, a Lucasfilm Games team.
We've got folks that.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Oversee Disney, Pixar games, and Twentieth Century games as well.
So we kind of break it down franchise and then
within that we've got a central business development team, a
central marketing team, a central creative team, and then production
roles that support those franchises.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
As I laid out, So again, we've got a.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Pretty a pretty robust team of folks in LA We've
got our Lucasfilm team up in San Francisco. We've got
some some teams in Tokyo and Shanghai and Soeoul, and a.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Small footprint in London.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
So again, across business, development, marketing, production, creative. Uh, you know,
we really kind of have a full org that helps
support this business internally.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
For its games. How much is done internally for Disney
and how much is external and working with outside developers,
outside partners and publishers.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah, so we are an exclusively licensed.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Business for the most part, so we have you know,
we are partner dependent. We work with all the partners
that you're probably aware of, companies like EA and Sony
and others to bring our games to life.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
But we support those partners, as I said, with.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
A team of folks that make sure that these things
are being brought to life authentically for our characters, stories
and worlds. But you know, we are dependent on partners
making games, and we license our IP to those companies
and then we support them in the development of the product.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Do you find that there's ways that that benefits you
in this market at this time or are there conversations
about bringing more things in house as time goes on,
as our conversation about moving more away from licensing or
more toward it.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
No, I think we're really happy with where we are.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
We made a conscious decision to do this, like I said,
or roughly five years ago. We had historically done different
things in games. As you're aware, we were a vertical
business for a long time. We were a co development
business for a while where we would outsource development and
we would publish, and we've always of course licensed.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We felt like where we are and where.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
We were then it made most sense to pivot the business,
you know, exclusively the licensing. It allows us really to
work with the best publishers and developers anywhere they are,
and for us, with the breadth of IP we have
with you know, so much ambition to tell really great
original stories in this space. This model really suited us
(05:17):
well and has really allowed us to go work with
folks that have a ton of passion for our characters,
stories and worlds, and matching that with best in class
developers has really been a formula for us that we
think is really valuable for the company and really drives
ultimately the best product for fans.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I touched on the Game Awards briefly at the top
of this, but I want to go back to that
now because that was last night, and one thing in
particular that was very exciting was the Blade announcement made
during the awards, and that a partnership but does and Marvel,
so I want to ask you about that, what the
current state is there and the decision to make that
announcement out of the Game Awards, which is obviously a
(05:58):
very bignite for gamers.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah, well, we were super excited about that announcement last night,
really happy now that the world is aware we're going
to make this game.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I think this is a great example.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Of that formula I just reference right, where you find
a partner that has a ton of passion for a
certain ip, a certain character, a certain story, which we
found is really the best way to bring a product
to market that really does our IP justice or does
these characters justice. And Blade's a great example, right, there's
(06:29):
a ton of passion at Bethesda for this game, which
again for us is really one of the big foundational
points to our model. We want to find developers and
publishers that have a ton of passion for rip and stories,
and so we focus a lot on finding that type
of match and Blade just a really good example of that.
(06:49):
Whether there was a ton of passion on the bethesta
side to tell this story, and we think, again that's
going to show up when this game launches down the road.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Know that Disney was involved in some nominations last night.
Didn't have all the wins that I wanted, but guys
were up for a lot, and I think it speaks
to the fact that it was a very competitive year
in general for gaming, So I wanted to know ask
you about that and what you kind of saw in
terms of the trends this year just across the industry
and what you thought some of the biggest wins for
you all personally were.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, Look, I think, to your point, super competitive year.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So we were happy to get nominated as we were
in such a competitive market, so many great games. I
think what what was clear to me and clear to
us is just the quality bar has.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Never been higher, right, and the demand for.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Quality storytelling really well made games, whether that's indie studios
or big Triple A games or you know, Triple A studios.
We think that that's you know, really clear, which we love, right.
It's about story, it's about quality, and I think this
year just illustrated that that the market's only getting more competitive.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
The quality of product again, we.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Think, has never been better, which for us to even
be nominated in the class of some of these other games.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Made us feel really good, right that.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
We've been partnering with the right partners telling really great stories,
and thankfully people are recognizing that work and it's something
again that we're super proud.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Of particular titles from this past years. You know, if
there's any specific examples you could give of things that
you're particularly proud of, things that maybe took a little
while to get out of the gate, but they finally
came out this year, or different things that you did
innovatively this year, something new things for you that you're
excited about.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, I mean, you hit on one with Dreamlight Valley.
That's a game that we're incredibly proud of that. I
think again, when you look at life sim games, when
you look at the behaviors and things that exist inside
that experience, that game has drawing more attention from my
network of folks that even aren't necessarily core gamers that
(08:53):
I get a lot of inbound interest on Dreamlight Value, which,
again we are super excited about the potential of this market. Certainly,
we think our ip with you know, from a Disney
Picks our perspective fits it perfectly, and we're.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Super happy with that execution.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I can't, you know, answer this question without mentioning Spider
Man two. You know, it was an incredibly high bar
coming out of the first game, coming off of Miles Morales.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
To now have that.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Game and market which is something that you know, the
Marvel team had been incredibly focused on for a long
time with Insomniac.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
We are super super proud of that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And then yesterday, I also, you know, I'd be remiss
if I didn't mention Avatar, which released just yesterday, which
is another big, big, many year effort, a great partnership
with us and the light Storm team internally, and obviously
the massive team at Ubisoft, which again I don't know
if you've seen the game or played the game yet,
but an incredible, an incredibly immersive world and one that
(09:51):
we think Avatar fans and hopefully gamers of all all
ages are going to get into and enjoy. So that's
one that that we were very proud of and excited
that the market's finally going to get to play that
game and experience Pandora in a way that again has
really never existed inside of games.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
So that's a that's a that's another one that we're
really proud of.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
As you've already mentioned a few times, you know, IP
is really what core here, what Disney has in the
market that differentiates it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
There's so many.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Titles, but with that also comes a level of criticism
that gamers can have, and people who love IP the
specific IP can have when they see it and how
it's done, and that can go really well and it
can also go poorly. So I want to know what
it's like dealing with these very beloved ips that people
have very strong dealings about and how they want to
see that go on screen, and the level of trust
(10:41):
you have to have with your outside partners about staying
true to the IP, staying true to whatever brand it
is that they're working on for you.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
It's a great question and one that really speaks to
that point I made a bit ago where you've really
got to have passion for this, for this IP, whatever
it is, because to your point, there's a there's a
huge fan base and a huge ball that's been set
through our films and TV shows and books and other
things where these stories have come from that you have
to meet as a partner. As our team internally, we
(11:11):
know the bar and certainly it's something that we spend
a lot of time focusing on making sure to your point,
that we are authentic to these characters, to these stories,
to these worlds, that whatever shows up on screen is
worthy of the story or worthy of the character and
something that again we take a lot of pride in,
and again we think those partnerships where we have and
(11:34):
we find that match with passion and interest in going
and telling these stories inside of this medium in a
way that hasn't been done before, is really the best
formula and something that again we know there's a lot
of audience interest in and a lot of folks that
are always watching to make sure that we hit that bar.
So it's something we certainly take a lot of pride
(11:56):
in internally, and then with our partners who we feel like,
you know, we spend so much time up front before
we decide to make a game with a partner that
you know, we try to make sure as best we
can that there's that match right where you have that passion,
you have that capability to go and do something that
is really going to match consumer expectations for whatever story
(12:18):
it is.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
But we we.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Think that is critical to this whole thing and certainly
something that we focus a lot on in our partnerships.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
We'll be back with more from Sean after this break,
and we're back with Sean Shopta, head of Disney's Gaming.
How much internally with the rest of Disney do you
all work together on things that could be put into
(12:49):
a game to feedback to other divisions.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
One example, I have Dreamlike Valley.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
There was an addition to the game at one point,
one of the Star Pass It had Disney Parks tie
in and there were all the different things you could
get that were items that were specific that you might
know from Disney Parks, like the trash.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Cans that have a cult following surrounding them.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So how much you all work And that's obviously is
a very specific case and it was tied to it,
but one hundred year anniversary there were also items that
came into the game tied to that.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So that's one game. That's one specific situation.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
But how much you will work with other divisions, like
if we can get this in here organically and it
ties to parks somehow or this, what can we do
and how much do you all talk about that?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, that's another great question, and look, it's something we do.
We do focus on. We are constantly talking to partners
internally about our games, about things that are coming not
just in game, but to your point, things that are
happening elsewhere in the company, whether it's in theme parks
or the film division, and yes, we are certainly conscious
of where there's opportunity to bring things into our experiences
(13:51):
from other parts of the company. Obviously we've done that
historically incredibly well as a company from a film perspective,
where we launch a great movie and then there's downstream
consumer products, there's games, there's books, there's other things. Games
is really hopefully for us starting to be another place
that we can see a lot of great things from
other parts of the company, to your point, and something
(14:12):
that yes, we are consciously doing and something that we
get excited about when there's opportunity to bring other parts
of the company into our game experiences.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It's certainly exciting.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
With the launch of a Rift in Time, which is
the expansion update for Dreamlin Valley this week, I want
to know if you already have reactions, any numbers, anything
you can use about the number of people have joined,
because this week was also when it left Free to
Play came out of data, so what you guys are
seeing on the back end right now, There.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah no specific numbers yet other than all of the
emails and techs I've been getting in the last week
are very positive, both internally from our marketing team from
game Loft. The stuff we've heard so far is incredibly positive,
and to your point, that was something that we've been
really focused on as we made this transition, and so
far the feedback from what we've we've heard has been
(15:03):
incredibly positive. But it's something that we're certainly we're certainly
paying close attention to given where we've been, you know,
with soft launch and the audience that we had built
on one platform.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Obviously you're always.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Conscious of what it's going to mean when you bring
it to a different space and so but so far,
to answer your question, it's been incredibly positive and a
lot of good feedback from not only our internal group,
but just folks in the community that we have community
that we've we've heard.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
From with it leaving free to play, I know when
that news was announced that it was not going to
be free to play as it had originally been intended
in that there were remarks about why that decision was made.
Can you break down a little bit where that decision
making process starts when Disney is not the one in
charge of making all of these decisions, and how that
partnership with game left and how you will come to
(15:51):
a decision like that and how much Disney has control
over that decision.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah, so we're obviously, you know, involved from every phase,
right so pre developed men as we talk about what
we want to make, you know, platforms, business model, those
things are something that we're certainly involved in all the
way through. And this is a good example of one
that given the nature of this experience, you know, as
you reference from free to play, you know, we were
(16:17):
involved all the way through and something that we've been
working with game Loft on timing, messaging, making sure that
we don't alienate users and those things. So yeah, it's
something that we're intimately involved in, even though ultimately this
is game lost game, but we certainly are involved in
these decisions, and you know, we were aligned in how
we went about this and how we brought these different
(16:37):
experiences to market.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So we are at the end of the year here,
so it's a good time to always ask about what
your biggest goals are for twenty twenty four, mostly anticipated.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Titles and roles in tease anything coming up.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Look, we were coming off of an incredibly great year
to the point on products we've just talked about, we're
super excited about Outlaws with with another massive title on
the Star Wars front. That's such a cool story, something
that we've spent a ton of time with them developing.
I'd say as we think about what's big and what
we're excited about just coming into the beginning or first
(17:14):
part of next year, I'd say Outlaws is really high
on our list. To your point on Dreamlight Valley, it's
something that hopefully we continue to build and that that
audience base continues to stay as invested as they've been
as we continue to bring new content to that experience.
You know, I think we're just our slate in general.
I would say Jenny has never been healthier, and it's
(17:36):
something that our team spend a ton of time on.
You know, as you know, this is a many year
process to bring these products to life and to even
source opportunities like Blade and others where you know, to
my earlier point, you know, finding that right formula is
something that takes time, and so we're we're really excited
(17:56):
about the work we've done these last number of years
to build the slate that you're starting to see come
to market these last couple of years. And then to
your point, what's coming in the future is in our
mind never been, never.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Been more exciting.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
We have a lot more to come, and we think
in this way we're kind of just getting started in
the space. So very excited about Outlaws, and you know,
a lot more that's going to come out over time
that we're excited to tell the world about.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I know one division of the company dealt with a
lot of conversations about generative AI over the past year
because of the two different Hollywood strikes, and now there's
conversation amount of potential strike next year among video game
voice actors. So I want to get your current thoughts
on generative AI. It has a place everywhere in the world.
Right now, they're conversations about how it should be used,
(18:44):
how it shouldn't be used. But I know this is
a point that's already being raised as people prepare for
potential conversations about this next year.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Yeah. Look, we're not immune to that conversation, right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I think it's just it's just people that are in
the space, whether it's games or any other parts of entertainment.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
To your point, you know, generative generative.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
AI as a hot topic. You know, I won't pretend
to be you know, the most knowledgeable. I don't work
in the space. I know there's so much there that
is yet to come, but certainly we're eyes wide open
on the potential on what it's going to mean for
game development in the future. Certainly things are already being
leveraged today in development and something that I think again
(19:23):
is going to.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Evolve over time. And I read what you read.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
There's a lot of you know, a lot of things
happening in this space, and there's clearly a lot of
potential for what this is going to mean for all industries,
games included. But you know, for for us, for where
we are today, you know, it's not something that's hugely
impactful to our day to day. We again think that
will continue to evolve over time as development gets more efficient,
(19:47):
as the technology continues to evolve, and we'll stay close
to our partners and learn how they are leveraging and
what it's going to mean for things in the future.
But right now we're we're kind of taking the same
view most people are and just in seeing how this
is going to evolve.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
As you look at just the past couple of years
of where gaming has come from, where it's started, what
do you see coming in the next few years, and
how do you see the relationship between gaming and a
wider audience changing. Do you see that you still as
you know, younger generations grow up become the older generations,
the perception around gaming, what gaming is, how it fits
(20:28):
into a larger entertainment culture, what you're seeing right now,
and what you think you might see in the next
couple of years, just based on changes in the past
few years.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, well, look, I think if you just look at
where the world has gone even currently right to your point,
what younger consumers are engaged most with and where they're
spending their time, you know, you see a dramatic shift
right from linear entertainment into games. I think even within games,
we're seeing a clear evolution into user generated content into
(20:58):
live service experiences. We obviously do a lot with Epic
and Fortnite where we license ip into that experience, so
we've we've seen a lot of really exciting things happen there.
Things happening in the uef N space inside of Fortnite
is really interesting to us as we think about creative
islands and those things, those are those are interesting shifts
to us where you know, we we get super excited
(21:21):
rightfully about Big Box, Triple A console games like Spider
Man and Avatar.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
But we also think.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
The market is really shifting to a place of live service,
user generated content, those things that again drive that social behavior,
drive that continued engagement, and we see a lot of
benefit in that and to the point, you know, we
really enjoy the things we're doing inside Fortnite, which I
think is a tell to that younger generation and that
(21:49):
sort of expectation of content, our ability to create, our
ability to participate in a way that's much more engaging
than maybe things have been historically. And so that's certainly
something that we have paid close attention to and will
continue to as we think about bringing our content to
different platforms, making sure that we're continuing to evolve our
(22:12):
storytelling and experiences as that market shifts.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
To your point, so.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I'd say those are those are things that we are
paying close attention to and getting a lot of good
feedback from the things that we're doing inside of those
experiences today.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And then, in your opinion moment, what do you think
the biggest obstacle is to getting to certain untapped markets
for gaming?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, I mean, for a long time, we've obviously heard
and talked a lot, you know, Southeast Asia and emerging
markets where there's a ton of demand for games. There's
a lot of folks that play games. You know, you
still have some device restrictions and things that make bringing
certain content to markets challenging. You know, I think that
that world is going to continue to evolve of being
(22:58):
able to bring really high fidelity experiences to mobile devices,
having them be accessible in different parts of the world
at scale. You know, I think there's still work to
do there. Again, there's a lot of demand for this content,
and there's gamers all over the world as we know,
but I think making sure that you know, the technology
and the ability to bring these really robust experiences to
(23:21):
different devices in different markets is still something that is
is you know, in need of some work to be
able to scale and really you know, build velocity in
some of those parts of the world.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
But you know, I think we've made to this to
the same point. I think we've made a lot of
progress in that regard.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
You know, we certainly focus on it as a company
with our partners as we think about where we can
bring our stories, where we can bring these different experiences.
So I'd say that you know that there's still work
to do from a device perspective. There's still questions on
you know, how you can bring a lot of those
experiences and scale them in certain markets. But you know,
(24:00):
I think that's where we'll continue to focus and look
to bring our stories and worlds to over time.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Do you have a favorite trend in gaming at this
moment and a not so different least favorite trend in gaming?
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably the same answer.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I think user generated content right where I think it's
incredibly exciting and scary at the same time as you
think about a premium IP holder like us, we think
it's a really interesting space and an important one, but
obviously one that.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
That needs to be done right and has its downsides
as we know.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You know, given you know, given the amount of engagement
there is and the tools now that are in place
across these platforms to go and create individual content, is now,
you know, never been better and only getting better over time.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
So I'd say it's the same answer.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I think I'm equally excited and equally concerned as we
think about what it means for Disney down the road,
but certainly something we're we're paying close attention.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
To Is there anything else you want people to know
about Disney Gaming right now?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, I just I think the big thing for us
again is really being authentic to this medium, and you know,
the things that we do are incredibly thoughtful to bring
these authentic experiences. Original storytelling is paramount, you know, again,
finding the right partners. It's not just about us trying
(25:28):
to make as many games as we can make. It
really is about making the right games with the right
partner and making sure that everything we do do is
done at a level of quality that really is on
the level of the IP and really brings these things
to market in the most meaningful way.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
To your earlier point.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
There's a lot of demand and there's a very high
bar for the stories we tell, and so we want
to make sure that we do them well. So I
just say, look, you know, our focus is really about quality.
It's really about building really great partsnerships with all of
the great partners we currently work with, and hopefully more
that we don't that we're going to work with in
the future. And we're we you know, to my earlier point,
(26:08):
I think we're really just getting started in this space.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
We think there's a meaningful opportunity to do more.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Uh and some of the points I made earlier about
what's happening from a younger consumer perspective user generated content,
as we think about live service experiences, those are really
interesting things to us and spaces that we're going to
continue to invest in and think about how to bring
our I P into in the most authentic ways, authentic
(26:35):
ways possible.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
But we're excited.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We think there's a lot more to come from from
us in games, and you know, we're we're just happy
with with what we're up to.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, thank you so much for your time today, Sean.
You don't need to get me a new update for
Dreamly Valley soon. I'm going to be stick on this
one for a while.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
We love that you're a fan.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Hopefully it's meeting your expectations, and you know, thank you
and for the time.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Really really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of
Variety Strictly Business. You can find new episodes weekly on
Apple Podcasts.
Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast feature and conversations
about the business of media and entertainment. I'm TV business
writer Jennifer Moss. Twenty twenty three was a big year
for Disney gaming. From the huge debut for Marvel's much
anticipated Spider Man two in October, to the move of
Disney Dream Light Valley out of its year long data
(00:29):
phase into its hard launch in December, and the recent
release of Avatar Frontiers of Pandora. The Disney team and
its outside developers and publishing partners have been hard at work,
and with the announcement of a new Blade game tied
to the upcoming Marvel movie during the twenty twenty three
Game Awards, things don't appear to be.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Slowing down for the Moss Houses Gaming division.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Here to talk about focusing on licensing versus developing in house,
the future of generative AI and gaming, the pros and
cons of user general to content, the power of Disney IP,
and what big titles are coming in twenty twenty four
and twenty twenty five. Is Disney Senior Vice President of
Games and Interactive Experiences, Sean shop Talk and We're back
(01:21):
with Sean Shopta head of Disney's Gaming.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Sean.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm so excited to have you here. We're starting to have.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
More people in gaming on the Strictly Business podcast, and
I'm really excited to have you so closely to two
big things in gaming this week, one the Game.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Awards, and then two even.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
More important to me, the launch of a rift and
time expansion for dream Light Valley, Big Big dream Light Valley.
Finn already seen several hours into that expansion this week.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Sean, so so excited to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'd like to start out just if you could start
with your own back and how you came into the
position you're currently in.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Sure, well, first off, thanks for having me, Jenny, really
happy to be here. Appreciate the time I've been at
Disney a little over twelve years now. I started out
in business development and strategy over the games and media
businesses for the company, and then about five years ago
in twenty eighteen, I took over and started running the
(02:24):
games business, which is the role I obviously am currently
in as well. So been about twelve years at the
company and the last five or so overseeing the games business.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So that people you know, I don't know how much
our listeners know about the different ways that the gaming
divisions are broken down at this point, but can you
give kind of a high level overview of the gaming
division structure at Disney right now?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
So, we obviously have a robust team across all franchises.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
So we've got a Marvel Games team, a Lucasfilm Games team.
We've got folks that.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Oversee Disney, Pixar games, and Twentieth Century games as well.
So we kind of break it down franchise and then
within that we've got a central business development team, a
central marketing team, a central creative team, and then production
roles that support those franchises.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
As I laid out, So again, we've got a.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Pretty a pretty robust team of folks in LA We've
got our Lucasfilm team up in San Francisco. We've got
some some teams in Tokyo and Shanghai and Soeoul, and a.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Small footprint in London.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
So again, across business, development, marketing, production, creative. Uh, you know,
we really kind of have a full org that helps
support this business internally.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
For its games. How much is done internally for Disney
and how much is external and working with outside developers,
outside partners and publishers.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah, so we are an exclusively licensed.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Business for the most part, so we have you know,
we are partner dependent. We work with all the partners
that you're probably aware of, companies like EA and Sony
and others to bring our games to life.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
But we support those partners, as I said, with.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
A team of folks that make sure that these things
are being brought to life authentically for our characters, stories
and worlds. But you know, we are dependent on partners
making games, and we license our IP to those companies
and then we support them in the development of the product.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Do you find that there's ways that that benefits you
in this market at this time or are there conversations
about bringing more things in house as time goes on,
as our conversation about moving more away from licensing or
more toward it.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
No, I think we're really happy with where we are.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
We made a conscious decision to do this, like I said,
or roughly five years ago. We had historically done different
things in games. As you're aware, we were a vertical
business for a long time. We were a co development
business for a while where we would outsource development and
we would publish, and we've always of course licensed.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We felt like where we are and where.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
We were then it made most sense to pivot the business,
you know, exclusively the licensing. It allows us really to
work with the best publishers and developers anywhere they are,
and for us, with the breadth of IP we have
with you know, so much ambition to tell really great
original stories in this space. This model really suited us
(05:17):
well and has really allowed us to go work with
folks that have a ton of passion for our characters,
stories and worlds, and matching that with best in class
developers has really been a formula for us that we
think is really valuable for the company and really drives
ultimately the best product for fans.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I touched on the Game Awards briefly at the top
of this, but I want to go back to that
now because that was last night, and one thing in
particular that was very exciting was the Blade announcement made
during the awards, and that a partnership but does and Marvel,
so I want to ask you about that, what the
current state is there and the decision to make that
announcement out of the Game Awards, which is obviously a
(05:58):
very bignite for gamers.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah, well, we were super excited about that announcement last night,
really happy now that the world is aware we're going
to make this game.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I think this is a great example.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Of that formula I just reference right, where you find
a partner that has a ton of passion for a
certain ip, a certain character, a certain story, which we
found is really the best way to bring a product
to market that really does our IP justice or does
these characters justice. And Blade's a great example, right, there's
(06:29):
a ton of passion at Bethesda for this game, which
again for us is really one of the big foundational
points to our model. We want to find developers and
publishers that have a ton of passion for rip and stories,
and so we focus a lot on finding that type
of match and Blade just a really good example of that.
(06:49):
Whether there was a ton of passion on the bethesta
side to tell this story, and we think, again that's
going to show up when this game launches down the road.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Know that Disney was involved in some nominations last night.
Didn't have all the wins that I wanted, but guys
were up for a lot, and I think it speaks
to the fact that it was a very competitive year
in general for gaming, So I wanted to know ask
you about that and what you kind of saw in
terms of the trends this year just across the industry
and what you thought some of the biggest wins for
you all personally were.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, Look, I think, to your point, super competitive year.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So we were happy to get nominated as we were
in such a competitive market, so many great games. I
think what what was clear to me and clear to
us is just the quality bar has.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Never been higher, right, and the demand for.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Quality storytelling really well made games, whether that's indie studios
or big Triple A games or you know, Triple A studios.
We think that that's you know, really clear, which we love, right.
It's about story, it's about quality, and I think this
year just illustrated that that the market's only getting more competitive.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
The quality of product again, we.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Think, has never been better, which for us to even
be nominated in the class of some of these other games.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Made us feel really good, right that.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
We've been partnering with the right partners telling really great stories,
and thankfully people are recognizing that work and it's something
again that we're super proud.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Of particular titles from this past years. You know, if
there's any specific examples you could give of things that
you're particularly proud of, things that maybe took a little
while to get out of the gate, but they finally
came out this year, or different things that you did
innovatively this year, something new things for you that you're
excited about.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, I mean, you hit on one with Dreamlight Valley.
That's a game that we're incredibly proud of that. I
think again, when you look at life sim games, when
you look at the behaviors and things that exist inside
that experience, that game has drawing more attention from my
network of folks that even aren't necessarily core gamers that
(08:53):
I get a lot of inbound interest on Dreamlight Value, which,
again we are super excited about the potential of this market. Certainly,
we think our ip with you know, from a Disney
Picks our perspective fits it perfectly, and we're.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Super happy with that execution.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I can't, you know, answer this question without mentioning Spider
Man two. You know, it was an incredibly high bar
coming out of the first game, coming off of Miles Morales.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
To now have that.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Game and market which is something that you know, the
Marvel team had been incredibly focused on for a long
time with Insomniac.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
We are super super proud of that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And then yesterday, I also, you know, I'd be remiss
if I didn't mention Avatar, which released just yesterday, which
is another big, big, many year effort, a great partnership
with us and the light Storm team internally, and obviously
the massive team at Ubisoft, which again I don't know
if you've seen the game or played the game yet,
but an incredible, an incredibly immersive world and one that
(09:51):
we think Avatar fans and hopefully gamers of all all
ages are going to get into and enjoy. So that's
one that that we were very proud of and excited
that the market's finally going to get to play that
game and experience Pandora in a way that again has
really never existed inside of games.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
So that's a that's a that's another one that we're
really proud of.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
As you've already mentioned a few times, you know, IP
is really what core here, what Disney has in the
market that differentiates it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
There's so many.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Titles, but with that also comes a level of criticism
that gamers can have, and people who love IP the
specific IP can have when they see it and how
it's done, and that can go really well and it
can also go poorly. So I want to know what
it's like dealing with these very beloved ips that people
have very strong dealings about and how they want to
see that go on screen, and the level of trust
(10:41):
you have to have with your outside partners about staying
true to the IP, staying true to whatever brand it
is that they're working on for you.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
It's a great question and one that really speaks to
that point I made a bit ago where you've really
got to have passion for this, for this IP, whatever
it is, because to your point, there's a there's a
huge fan base and a huge ball that's been set
through our films and TV shows and books and other
things where these stories have come from that you have
to meet as a partner. As our team internally, we
(11:11):
know the bar and certainly it's something that we spend
a lot of time focusing on making sure to your point,
that we are authentic to these characters, to these stories,
to these worlds, that whatever shows up on screen is
worthy of the story or worthy of the character and
something that again we take a lot of pride in,
and again we think those partnerships where we have and
(11:34):
we find that match with passion and interest in going
and telling these stories inside of this medium in a
way that hasn't been done before, is really the best
formula and something that again we know there's a lot
of audience interest in and a lot of folks that
are always watching to make sure that we hit that bar.
So it's something we certainly take a lot of pride
(11:56):
in internally, and then with our partners who we feel like,
you know, we spend so much time up front before
we decide to make a game with a partner that
you know, we try to make sure as best we
can that there's that match right where you have that passion,
you have that capability to go and do something that
is really going to match consumer expectations for whatever story
(12:18):
it is.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
But we we.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Think that is critical to this whole thing and certainly
something that we focus a lot on in our partnerships.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
We'll be back with more from Sean after this break,
and we're back with Sean Shopta, head of Disney's Gaming.
How much internally with the rest of Disney do you
all work together on things that could be put into
(12:49):
a game to feedback to other divisions.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
One example, I have Dreamlike Valley.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
There was an addition to the game at one point,
one of the Star Pass It had Disney Parks tie
in and there were all the different things you could
get that were items that were specific that you might
know from Disney Parks, like the trash.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Cans that have a cult following surrounding them.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So how much you all work And that's obviously is
a very specific case and it was tied to it,
but one hundred year anniversary there were also items that
came into the game tied to that.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So that's one game. That's one specific situation.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
But how much you will work with other divisions, like
if we can get this in here organically and it
ties to parks somehow or this, what can we do
and how much do you all talk about that?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, that's another great question, and look, it's something we do.
We do focus on. We are constantly talking to partners
internally about our games, about things that are coming not
just in game, but to your point, things that are
happening elsewhere in the company, whether it's in theme parks
or the film division, and yes, we are certainly conscious
of where there's opportunity to bring things into our experiences
(13:51):
from other parts of the company. Obviously we've done that
historically incredibly well as a company from a film perspective,
where we launch a great movie and then there's downstream
consumer products, there's games, there's books, there's other things. Games
is really hopefully for us starting to be another place
that we can see a lot of great things from
other parts of the company, to your point, and something
(14:12):
that yes, we are consciously doing and something that we
get excited about when there's opportunity to bring other parts
of the company into our game experiences.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
It's certainly exciting.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
With the launch of a Rift in Time, which is
the expansion update for Dreamlin Valley this week, I want
to know if you already have reactions, any numbers, anything
you can use about the number of people have joined,
because this week was also when it left Free to
Play came out of data, so what you guys are
seeing on the back end right now, There.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah no specific numbers yet other than all of the
emails and techs I've been getting in the last week
are very positive, both internally from our marketing team from
game Loft. The stuff we've heard so far is incredibly positive,
and to your point, that was something that we've been
really focused on as we made this transition, and so
far the feedback from what we've we've heard has been
(15:03):
incredibly positive. But it's something that we're certainly we're certainly
paying close attention to given where we've been, you know,
with soft launch and the audience that we had built
on one platform.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Obviously you're always.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Conscious of what it's going to mean when you bring
it to a different space and so but so far,
to answer your question, it's been incredibly positive and a
lot of good feedback from not only our internal group,
but just folks in the community that we have community
that we've we've heard.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
From with it leaving free to play, I know when
that news was announced that it was not going to
be free to play as it had originally been intended
in that there were remarks about why that decision was made.
Can you break down a little bit where that decision
making process starts when Disney is not the one in
charge of making all of these decisions, and how that
partnership with game left and how you will come to
(15:51):
a decision like that and how much Disney has control
over that decision.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah, so we're obviously, you know, involved from every phase,
right so pre developed men as we talk about what
we want to make, you know, platforms, business model, those
things are something that we're certainly involved in all the
way through. And this is a good example of one
that given the nature of this experience, you know, as
you reference from free to play, you know, we were
(16:17):
involved all the way through and something that we've been
working with game Loft on timing, messaging, making sure that
we don't alienate users and those things. So yeah, it's
something that we're intimately involved in, even though ultimately this
is game lost game, but we certainly are involved in
these decisions, and you know, we were aligned in how
we went about this and how we brought these different
(16:37):
experiences to market.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So we are at the end of the year here,
so it's a good time to always ask about what
your biggest goals are for twenty twenty four, mostly anticipated.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Titles and roles in tease anything coming up.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Look, we were coming off of an incredibly great year
to the point on products we've just talked about, we're
super excited about Outlaws with with another massive title on
the Star Wars front. That's such a cool story, something
that we've spent a ton of time with them developing.
I'd say as we think about what's big and what
we're excited about just coming into the beginning or first
(17:14):
part of next year, I'd say Outlaws is really high
on our list. To your point on Dreamlight Valley, it's
something that hopefully we continue to build and that that
audience base continues to stay as invested as they've been
as we continue to bring new content to that experience.
You know, I think we're just our slate in general.
I would say Jenny has never been healthier, and it's
(17:36):
something that our team spend a ton of time on.
You know, as you know, this is a many year
process to bring these products to life and to even
source opportunities like Blade and others where you know, to
my earlier point, you know, finding that right formula is
something that takes time, and so we're we're really excited
(17:56):
about the work we've done these last number of years
to build the slate that you're starting to see come
to market these last couple of years. And then to
your point, what's coming in the future is in our
mind never been, never.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Been more exciting.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
We have a lot more to come, and we think
in this way we're kind of just getting started in
the space. So very excited about Outlaws, and you know,
a lot more that's going to come out over time
that we're excited to tell the world about.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I know one division of the company dealt with a
lot of conversations about generative AI over the past year
because of the two different Hollywood strikes, and now there's
conversation amount of potential strike next year among video game
voice actors. So I want to get your current thoughts
on generative AI. It has a place everywhere in the world.
Right now, they're conversations about how it should be used,
(18:44):
how it shouldn't be used. But I know this is
a point that's already being raised as people prepare for
potential conversations about this next year.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Yeah. Look, we're not immune to that conversation, right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I think it's just it's just people that are in
the space, whether it's games or any other parts of entertainment.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
To your point, you know, generative generative.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
AI as a hot topic. You know, I won't pretend
to be you know, the most knowledgeable. I don't work
in the space. I know there's so much there that
is yet to come, but certainly we're eyes wide open
on the potential on what it's going to mean for
game development in the future. Certainly things are already being
leveraged today in development and something that I think again
(19:23):
is going to.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Evolve over time. And I read what you read.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
There's a lot of you know, a lot of things
happening in this space, and there's clearly a lot of
potential for what this is going to mean for all industries,
games included. But you know, for for us, for where
we are today, you know, it's not something that's hugely
impactful to our day to day. We again think that
will continue to evolve over time as development gets more efficient,
(19:47):
as the technology continues to evolve, and we'll stay close
to our partners and learn how they are leveraging and
what it's going to mean for things in the future.
But right now we're we're kind of taking the same
view most people are and just in seeing how this
is going to evolve.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
As you look at just the past couple of years
of where gaming has come from, where it's started, what
do you see coming in the next few years, and
how do you see the relationship between gaming and a
wider audience changing. Do you see that you still as
you know, younger generations grow up become the older generations,
the perception around gaming, what gaming is, how it fits
(20:28):
into a larger entertainment culture, what you're seeing right now,
and what you think you might see in the next
couple of years, just based on changes in the past
few years.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, well, look, I think if you just look at
where the world has gone even currently right to your point,
what younger consumers are engaged most with and where they're
spending their time, you know, you see a dramatic shift
right from linear entertainment into games. I think even within games,
we're seeing a clear evolution into user generated content into
(20:58):
live service experiences. We obviously do a lot with Epic
and Fortnite where we license ip into that experience, so
we've we've seen a lot of really exciting things happen there.
Things happening in the uef N space inside of Fortnite
is really interesting to us as we think about creative
islands and those things, those are those are interesting shifts
to us where you know, we we get super excited
(21:21):
rightfully about Big Box, Triple A console games like Spider
Man and Avatar.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
But we also think.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
The market is really shifting to a place of live service,
user generated content, those things that again drive that social behavior,
drive that continued engagement, and we see a lot of
benefit in that and to the point, you know, we
really enjoy the things we're doing inside Fortnite, which I
think is a tell to that younger generation and that
(21:49):
sort of expectation of content, our ability to create, our
ability to participate in a way that's much more engaging
than maybe things have been historically. And so that's certainly
something that we have paid close attention to and will
continue to as we think about bringing our content to
different platforms, making sure that we're continuing to evolve our
(22:12):
storytelling and experiences as that market shifts.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
To your point, so.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I'd say those are those are things that we are
paying close attention to and getting a lot of good
feedback from the things that we're doing inside of those
experiences today.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And then, in your opinion moment, what do you think
the biggest obstacle is to getting to certain untapped markets
for gaming?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, I mean, for a long time, we've obviously heard
and talked a lot, you know, Southeast Asia and emerging
markets where there's a ton of demand for games. There's
a lot of folks that play games. You know, you
still have some device restrictions and things that make bringing
certain content to markets challenging. You know, I think that
that world is going to continue to evolve of being
(22:58):
able to bring really high fidelity experiences to mobile devices,
having them be accessible in different parts of the world
at scale. You know, I think there's still work to
do there. Again, there's a lot of demand for this content,
and there's gamers all over the world as we know,
but I think making sure that you know, the technology
and the ability to bring these really robust experiences to
(23:21):
different devices in different markets is still something that is
is you know, in need of some work to be
able to scale and really you know, build velocity in
some of those parts of the world.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
But you know, I think we've made to this to
the same point. I think we've made a lot of
progress in that regard.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
You know, we certainly focus on it as a company
with our partners as we think about where we can
bring our stories, where we can bring these different experiences.
So I'd say that you know that there's still work
to do from a device perspective. There's still questions on
you know, how you can bring a lot of those
experiences and scale them in certain markets. But you know,
(24:00):
I think that's where we'll continue to focus and look
to bring our stories and worlds to over time.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Do you have a favorite trend in gaming at this
moment and a not so different least favorite trend in gaming?
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably the same answer.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I think user generated content right where I think it's
incredibly exciting and scary at the same time as you
think about a premium IP holder like us, we think
it's a really interesting space and an important one, but
obviously one that.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
That needs to be done right and has its downsides
as we know.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
You know, given you know, given the amount of engagement
there is and the tools now that are in place
across these platforms to go and create individual content, is now,
you know, never been better and only getting better over time.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
So I'd say it's the same answer.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I think I'm equally excited and equally concerned as we
think about what it means for Disney down the road,
but certainly something we're we're paying close attention.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
To Is there anything else you want people to know
about Disney Gaming right now?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, I just I think the big thing for us
again is really being authentic to this medium, and you know,
the things that we do are incredibly thoughtful to bring
these authentic experiences. Original storytelling is paramount, you know, again,
finding the right partners. It's not just about us trying
(25:28):
to make as many games as we can make. It
really is about making the right games with the right
partner and making sure that everything we do do is
done at a level of quality that really is on
the level of the IP and really brings these things
to market in the most meaningful way.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
To your earlier point.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
There's a lot of demand and there's a very high
bar for the stories we tell, and so we want
to make sure that we do them well. So I
just say, look, you know, our focus is really about quality.
It's really about building really great partsnerships with all of
the great partners we currently work with, and hopefully more
that we don't that we're going to work with in
the future. And we're we you know, to my earlier point,
(26:08):
I think we're really just getting started in this space.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
We think there's a meaningful opportunity to do more.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Uh and some of the points I made earlier about
what's happening from a younger consumer perspective user generated content,
as we think about live service experiences, those are really
interesting things to us and spaces that we're going to
continue to invest in and think about how to bring
our I P into in the most authentic ways, authentic
(26:35):
ways possible.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
But we're excited.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
We think there's a lot more to come from from
us in games, and you know, we're we're just happy
with with what we're up to.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, thank you so much for your time today, Sean.
You don't need to get me a new update for
Dreamly Valley soon. I'm going to be stick on this
one for a while.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
We love that you're a fan.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Hopefully it's meeting your expectations, and you know, thank you
and for the time.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Really really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of
Variety Strictly Business. You can find new episodes weekly on
Apple Podcasts.
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