March 20, 2024 • 31 mins
As Congress debates the future of TikTok in the U.S., here's an encore episode of Variety's "Strictly Business" podcast from August 2023 that examines how the social media platform has become essential for promoting movies and TV shows.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
which we speak with some of the brightest minds working
in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.
There's no single reason anyone can attribute to the incredible
run Barbie enjoyed at the box office this summer, but
one factor at play driving interest in the movie seems
(00:29):
to consistently explain the success of a lot of pop
cultural phenomena these days. Going viral on TikTok so to
shed light on how the social platform packs a promotional
punch for movies, TV shows, music and more. We've got
Raya Davidson, TikTok's US head of Media and Entertainment, and
(00:50):
Catherine Halliby, head of Entertainment for North America on this
week's episode. Stick Around will be with them right after
the break, and we are back with Raya Davidson and
Katherine Halliby from TikTok. Before we dive into the bar
(01:12):
v at all with you, guys, let's find out a
little more about what you both do at TikTok. You
have similar but not identical titles, so I'm guessing there's
some differences we should take note of.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Hi, Andrew, Nice to meet you. My name is Raya Davidson,
and I am the Vertical director leading the US Media
and Entertainment Enterprise sales team at TikTok. Think of my
team as partnering with studios to ensure their paid media
has the biggest impact both on and off the platform.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I'm Katherine Halloby and I am the North America Head
of Entertainment, which just sounds very similar. But what that
means here at TikTok is my team work with media partners, creators,
and public figures to help them grow audiences on our
platform with organic content.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And so my guess is the two of you need
to do a fair amount of coordinating considering I think
there's some overlap there.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yeah, it's like two halves of the coin.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
There's your paid plan, there's your organic presence, and they
should be working together to drive your success.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Okay? Well that said, let's dig back into Barbie and
put the success of this movie in context. I mean,
was this, first of all, some kind of record in
terms of the stats that one movie has enjoyed on
the TikTok platform.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Barbie, This is Catherine, and Barbie has really been a
phenomenon on TikTok's It's kind of the perfect marriage. I
think of a movie campaign that spawned a million trends
and a platform where trends tend to begin and really
perpetuate outward from there. We know TikTok plays a big
role in driving culture. Generally, lots of trends across categories start.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Here, and that was so true of Barbie.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I think what was especially significant about Barbie on our
platform was just how incredibly varied how it showed up
was essentially which is all driven by our community. But
I saw Barbie content about you know, what you would
expect right the movie, anticipating the film, reviews of the film,
(03:22):
but also everything inspired by the universe of the film, fashion, food,
you know, weekend activities, home decor. There's just kind of
no corner of TikTok that you can't find some element
of Barbie showing up. But I think that that speaks
to the tremendous success the film overall.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And from a data perspective, though, was there like new
record set in terms of how a Hollywood property has
trended or performed on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
It's hard to say because you're just always comparing apples
and oranges, especially with a property like Barbie that has
lots of underlying and pre existing IP, whether it's from
the animated series, The.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Doll, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I can tell you that Barbie as a hashtag has
over nearly eighty billion views and one point for a
million followers on the handle Barbie the movie, and those
are some really big numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Got it?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So raa with you and Warner Brothers. My guess is
Warner Brothers, of course, being the one who produced Barbie,
the conversations about what they could do on TikTok probably
started long before the movie hit theaters.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
That is very very true.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So I mean, like every other partner, we are recommending
that studios like Warner Bros. Brings TikTok into the process
as early as possible to enable TikTok to just be
the most effective and strategic partner that we can be.
You know, certainly, we understand that a specific film's positioning
can sometimes be fluid and may.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Not always be clear at the outside, but for sure
a best practice is bringing TikTok in. The earlier is
the better, and for Warner Bros. And Barbie the movie specifically,
they did bring us into the conversation very very early,
and we certainly saw that early enthusiasm for those very
(05:22):
first Barbie images and activations on platform, and that just
garnered such excitement which was a definite momentum builder many
months before the film hit theaters in July.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Because I think back, Catherine to how you described it,
and correct me if I'm wrong. In terms of the
campaign spawning the trends? Was that I mean, because I
would imagine times as it not necessarily the case the
trends for anything in pop culture could emanate from nowhere,
not necessarily be from a campaign. Was that exactly kind
(05:57):
of what happened here.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, It's so hard to.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Really tease that all the way out, because again, Barbie
is an idea that predates, you know, all of our
lifetime and certainly even the TikTok platform. And I think,
you know, for me, as a consumer and a user
of TikTok, I first saw it pop when the character
(06:24):
posters came out, which you know, of course, was part
of Warner's campaign releasing these sort of first looks at
doctor Barbie, President Barbie, et cetera. And we really saw
the community embrace that and create their own versions of
you know, this is me as Barbie. This is me
essentially recreating the look of that character portrait to make
(06:44):
my own self expression in their content. And so I
think that is a very clear thing to attribute to
Warner Brothers. At the same time, we saw certain trending
sounds that had been trends on the platform from years before,
like to this from, which I think is a clip
from Barbie the animated series from a decade ago, and
(07:05):
that was a trending sound on TikTok years ago and
then came back as a result of a sort of
chatter and the anticipation of Barbie the movie.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Sure and Raa. When you were talking to Warner Brothers
about this and what you wanted to do, there was
there a sense of just how big this could be.
Was there something about this movie that you were able
to sell them on by saying, like, look, this is
made for TikTok.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, I mean, first and foremost, I'd say it's super
important that we pay homage to the Warner Brothers marketing team.
I mean, they are the masterminds behind the success of
the film both on and off platform, and the marketing
they did to promote the Barbie movie was just simply brilliant.
I mean, Barbie was and still is everywhere. Certainly, my
for you page is still filled with Barbie content and
(08:00):
I'm here for it. And I think, without speaking to specifics,
what I can say about our conversations with Warner Brothers
is that we know that TikTok played a massive role
in drumming up excitement for the film and driving.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
People to theaters.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So I think part of that definitely had to do
with the very early partnership. I'm thinking back to April,
four months before the film hit theaters, when Warner Bros.
First launched their teaser video on TikTok. It received over
twenty seven million views and over two point seven million likes.
And that's some pretty big numbers for a film that
(08:38):
doesn't launch until four months later.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And so does it change the kind of conversations you're
having with studios now for other kinds of movies that
we're going to see in the coming months, or you know,
do other studios say, I love what Warner Brothers did
on your platform with Barbie, how do we do this?
And that I'm just curious if it's been a changer.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
This is Catherine, I'll jump in. I mean, I think
people are going to be saying that about Barbie for years.
I think they've really that, you know, set a new
standard for what a kind of impact you can really
drive around a film to really become a cultural moment.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Got it. But also it's sort of like, is you
know you used that word earlier, you know, attributable And
it's like, well, is TikTok really the driver here or
is it really more of a reflection of what else
is just going on in the culture, And with or
without TikTok, Barbie was going to be big? How do
you know it's the platform at play I've stopped you.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
I mean, I would not want to take credit, right
I would.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
No one platform can take credit for this kind of phenomenon.
But I think to what Rao was saying earlier, starting
early is so important, and that was certainly something that
Warner did with this title on our platform, and I
think one of the key elements of its success, and
again something that made it especially a fit for a
platform like ours, was how long until that campaign really
(10:14):
gave any details about the plot about what kind of.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Film we were all in store for and essentially allowed
the audience to use their own imaginations and spend months
anticipating a film through their own imaginations, which of course
is deeply tied to the underlining experience of playing.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
With the doll and kind of spoke to that nostalgia,
but also is really a fit for TikTok because co
creation and being inspired by one person's idea and taking
a little bit further and essentially using your imagination with
our tools is kind of the fundamentals of this platform,
whether it's responding to a trend, using a feature like
(10:57):
duet or stitch to build on another person's content, and
of course the trending sounds and the music on our
platform all kind of feed that behavior, and I think
it was a really powerful part of what made this
movie really break out.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
And so Raya, when you're talking to other studios, I mean,
obviously TikTok is not the only game in town when
it comes to digital platforms, and some of those other
games we shall remain nameless on this podcast, of course,
but they've been around a lot longer, and so Mike,
I'm curious, what is it that you use in terms
(11:34):
of like, Hey, all of these other platforms are fine,
but this is why you've got to be on TikTok.
Is it about a particular demo that's there, particular sensibility?
What are you selling them on?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, I'm happy to answer that. So when we're talking
with movie studios in advance of launching a new film
on TikTok, I think one of there's just three big
differentiators or advantages we encourage studios to take advantage of.
The first being that TikTok truly is entertainment. We don't
see ourselves as a social platform. You know, we are
(12:10):
a content graph. We are true entertainment platform. And whereas
you check other platforms, you watch TikTok, and in fact,
TikTok's global community is consuming over a movie length of
time on the platform each and every day, so we
just have such an engaged, immersed audience. The second thing
(12:31):
that's the best practice to take advantage of for entertainment
marketers is the fact that TikTok is a full screen
audio on platform. So the benefit there is that when
you're on TikTok, you are fully immersed in the experience.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
There is no way that you could be multitasking.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And that lends itself to being very complementary to showing
Hollywood content in an engaging and a fun way. And
this just really creates a naturally symbiotic relationship between TikTok
and entertainment marketers in terms of our ability to partner
to build active, engaged and inspired fans bases. And our
(13:09):
recommendation is that brands can really capitalize on this by
simply being on the platform and being involved in our community.
And then, lastly, the third best practice I'd say we
recommend and talk about a lot is part of the
magic of TikTok is that it creates a uniquely engaged
ecosystem between creators, communities, and marketers in a way that
(13:29):
really can't be found anywhere else. So people come to
the platform and discover new movies or shows that they
want to watch, We see them then leaving the platform
to consume that content, and then they come back to
TikTok to actually co create about that shower movie and
share it with a much broader, wider audience. And like
(13:50):
we saw with Barbie, that really helps to fuel fandom
and often creates those cultural moments on TikTok and So Ray.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
I'm also curious as a category. I know you're not
going to reveal the numbers. I'm not asking you to,
but is entertainment just a big growth area for marketing
in terms of TikTok. Obviously there's lots of different campaigns,
lots of different industries, but I'm just curious how big
a piece of all that the Hollywood world is.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, I can't speak to specifics, but I can say
that our entertainment marketing partners continue to be increasingly excited
about partnering with TikTok to launch whatever their newest content is,
from shows to films, even music and live events.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We're going to take a break, but be right back
with some of the leaders of marketing and promotion at TikTok,
And we are back with Ray Davidson and Catherine Halliby
of TikTok talking about what resonates on the platform, how
(15:05):
marketers taken advantage of it in terms of entertainment, and
so I'm curious looking ahead now you know we're coming
out of the summer, we're heading towards the fall. Are
there other titles and it could we could talk beyond film,
we could talk television, or music or anything where it's like,
this is an interesting marketing campaign to keep an eye on,
(15:28):
or this is an interesting trend. I feel like I
always hear about these things after they hit, and so
can you give me a sense of like, I keep
an eye on this one because it's going to get interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, this is Catherine. I will take a stab at that.
I mean with, of course the caveat that these things
are nearly impossible to predict because it is based on
so many contributing factors. But this is the time of year, yes,
mid August, when I start to get excited for Halloween,
because Halloween starts happening on TikTok usually in early September,
(16:06):
which is great for horror titles. I think, you know,
the Exorcist is coming back, and I anticipate that that
will find an audience because Spooky season is such a
it's probably the biggest holiday on TikTok, and we've seen
that success work out particularly well years past. For the
(16:27):
screen franchise. We partnered with Paramount to bring the voice
of ghost Face to the app, which gave users the
ability to translate their text boxes and videos to be
read aloud by the voice of ghost Face.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's our text to speech feature, and.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
That inspired a lot of both film related content, Halloween content,
and just you know, general user creativity. So always keep
an eye on Halloween and just whether it's sort of
horror or more in the comedy category. That's certain bruced
on our platform.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You know, I probably could have guessed that Halloween and
horror would be big after seeing the recent Grimace milkshake
trend play out on TikTok and the horrifying purple drinks
that well, I'll leave it to those two have not
familiar with what I'm talking about to check it out
on the platform. I'm also wondering, Raya, is it possible
(17:25):
even something like Oscar season has any sort of place
on TikTok, because I would think, oh, no, this is
you know, TikTok's more for kids and for comedy and
horror Or am I wrong?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Well?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I think you are exactly right that I mean, TikTok
is a platform for everyone. We've grown to over a
billion users globally, and Oscars is certainly a place that
has an important fandom on TikTok and certainly partnering with
all of our entertainment marketing partners. There's a lot of
(18:00):
citement to build for your consideration campaigns a lot of times,
and so we're really excited about the Oscar season each
and every year on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And when you mentioned globally, it also reminds me like,
of course TikTok a very global platform. Are you seeing
the ways that TikTok is able to take US based
properties and drive interest in countries where perhaps it's not
so easy to reach certain demographics and certain nationalities or whatnot.
(18:35):
Is does TikTok become part of being able to drive
interest truly on a global basis, which is so important
at the box office these days.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, this is Catherine absolutely. I do think that the
global nature of our platform and the way content is
distributed are really key factors for that to actually return
to Barbie. One of the ways that we've partnered with
Corner Brothers on that.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Release was on a point of interest feature.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
So point of interest is essentially a location tag you
can add to your videos, and we created our first
ever fictional point of interest, which was Barbie Land aka Malibu,
And if you go to the page in app for
that location, you will see videos from all over the world,
just sort of the fun irony of that being a
(19:25):
fictional location. Warner was a fabulous partner and sort of
driving the awareness of that by putting it on their content.
But yeah, if you go to that page today, you'll
see videos from Brazil, You'll see videos from Indonesia. It
has really been a way to kind of see that
global snapshot of the fandom around this film and ray.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I'm also curious when it comes to TikTok's marketing power.
Is it about you know, little ad breaks that run,
you know, quick spots, or is it more about you know,
branded content creators doing things that are in the content
that that's interesting. What when you're selling a studio on
(20:09):
what they should do, you know, is it a little
of everything?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
That's definitely correct. The answer to that question is it
is both. So creators first and foremost are an amazing
way for you know, brands just to connect with the
TikTok community. And so a lot of our entertainment marketers
will leverage branded content via creators, and we just know
(20:35):
that creators know better than anyone else but will resonate
with their audiences. And for example, we ran a study
with our partner Susie, and it showed that fifty four
percent of TikTok users are more likely to trust recommendations
from creators who come from similar communities, and even without creators,
(20:56):
the TikTok community genuinely wants to engage with brands, and
the receptiveness to branded content on TikTok is really unmatched.
We've seen unmatched ROI on our platform. For example, fifty
eight percent of our users have indicated that they are
interested in viewing more content from studios, streamers, and from networks.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Well does And so I'm I'm curious if you know,
even independent of those marketing efforts, how closely does TikTok
monitor what entertainment properties are trending on its platform?
Speaker 5 (21:33):
You know?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Is that a regular conversation you guys are having. I
feel like I don't see those numbers that often we are.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
You know, looking at those kinds of trends that we're
often seeing the same trends as a user of our
platform would by scrolling with for up, And you know,
we try to sort of guide those insights when we can,
but I think, you know, you will truly find just
about everything on TikTok every platform. Every fandom has has
(22:05):
an expression here, so there's there's no limits.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So but Catherine, the more you do this, the more
and I guess what I'm trying to ask is, does
TikTok ever become more predictable in terms of these kinds
of behaviors? Like you you start to get that there's
a track record with certain genres, with certain stars or whatnot,
or is it you know what, there's a there's a
(22:28):
surprise every time. There's only so much you can do
to anticipate.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I think there are things to keep in mind to
help make that sort of sudden, serendipitous success more likely.
You know, this is like Rayo was saying, we're a
content graph. So that means every video is sort of
looking for its audience as opposed to thinking about accounts
with specific following, and all of your content just goes
(22:55):
to your followers. And so that means discovery is happening
all the time. Need people are discovering new shows, celebrities,
you know, films that they that have been out for
a while and they've just heard about, or that they
are that are coming soon.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And excuse me.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
The I think the through line or what drives success
is does it feel authentic to the platform, and authentic
to the platform really means authentic, you know, is there
a behind the scenes snippet of an upcoming film like
I saw this from from Lionsgate and a new Hunger
(23:37):
Games prequel that's coming this fall. They shared some content
from the set about a year ago. And it's that
kind of access, that kind of perspective that you're not
going to find, you know, broadly, but maybe you'll find
it here because someone made a video when they had
access to a really cool space, like a movie set.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Those that kind of.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
The joy of discovery and the joy of finding something
unexpected I think tends to really resonate and drive that
kind of snowball effect over time or entertainment in particular.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And so, you know, let's say the snowball is rolling.
I think back to there was that memorable campaign where
or I shouldn't see campaign. I don't know if it
was initially planned, but the Minions came out and all
of a sudden, these kids are, you know, going to
the theaters wearing suits, and I'm like, what on earth
is going on here? And so what I'm curious is
something happens that maybe is unexpected a trend emanates from
(24:41):
TikTok that no one foresees. Ray are you able to
go back to the studio and say, like, look, look
what's going on here? And can the studio then sort
of like change their marketing or adjust their marketing plans
on the fly so that they're able to get to
take advantage of something that they didn't really anticipate.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So I think that's part of the beauty of TikTok
is really that culture starts here on platform, and there
are these cultural moments that happen both on and off
platform that we can really leverage to capitalize upon with
our entertainment marketing partners. So I remember when gentlemenions started,
(25:22):
and that was a trend that I think none of
us predicted. However, being very nimble across our team and
our partnership with Universal, we were definitely able to put
together some very quick moments on platform to capitalize upon
that trend.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Okay, well, I'm sure studios appreciate that also. Is there
you know, obviously when I think of TikTok, I think of,
you know, watching funny videos. But are there other, say,
more interactive features that allow fans to maybe drill a
little deeper into a property, uh, you know, through options
(26:01):
of any kind and just curious what TikTok might have there.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah, this is Raya. I'm happy to answer that question.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I think one of the most exciting things for entertainment
marketers on TikTok is the fact that we have built
advertising solutions that really feel natural to the platform and
focus on inspiring co creation within the community. For example,
we have a product called Branded Admission. It's an industry
first ad solution that enables advertisers to crowdsource authentic content
(26:33):
from creators on TikTok, turn those top performing videos into ads,
and improve brand affinity and media with media impressions. So,
you know, Brand Admission makes it easier for brands to
tap into that creative power of TikTok communities and co
create authentic branded content that really resonates across our community.
(26:54):
Another example would be our other product called branded Effects.
These are sponsored custos some effects that invite the TikTok
community to co create alongside of a brand. They can
be highly customized with branded elements and.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Include features like calls to action.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
And custom audience targeting to fit a brand specific campaign needs.
So one of my recent favorites came from Disney. They
launched a branded effect for The Little Mermaid. This is
actually the first branded effect on platform that used actual
footage from the film, and it invited our community to
actually become Ariel in the famous scene where she sang
(27:31):
part of your world behind the rock, and it was
definitely a fan favorite and community favorite on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I will have to go looking for this stuff. I'm curious. Also,
you know, I have a sort of an in house
TikTok lab at home with a fifteen year old boy
who discovers all sorts of even older catalog entertainment property,
TV shows on Netflix and that kind of thing. Are
you seeing what I'm seeing in my lab? In terms
(28:02):
of like are you turning studios onto Like, Hey, you've
got things you're not even marketing here that are trending.
You really should throw some marketing dollars behind it to
accelerate it. Or because it just seems like to some degree,
content has a life of its own when it comes
to entertainment properties on TikTok.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Yes, Katherine and I think that's a great way to
describe it.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
The content does have a life of its own, and
again that's sort of because of the content graph and
distribution in the core you feed. And I'm seeing the
same thing I hear constantly from people under thirty, let's say,
younger than me. You know that they've discovered a show
or you know, have I heard of this show? And
it's not even a show that's in production anymore, but
(28:50):
they saw something that recommended it, or they saw a
video that recommended it on TikTok. A few years ago,
we saw a phenomenon around Criminal Minds where there was
just a ton of Criminal Minds fan content well after
it's sort of original CBS broadcast window. And there's actually
a trend I just noticed today where even the idea
(29:13):
of hey, do you remember this movie or do you
remember this TV show has spawned a mini trend where
there's an invented horror movie from the eighties called Zapatha
that never existed, but people are sort of pretending it existed.
So there is, yes, very much a universe of library
and archival discovery on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Sounds like something else studios may want to be marketing towards,
or at least paying attention to in terms of in
this reboot culture world, TikTok provides I think a sense
of the vitality that might be lurking behind this brand
or that, and so interesting to note as well. So
in one last question, you know, is there any particular
(29:59):
Movi the TV show that you think is just generating
some interesting whether it's an organic, you know, fan fed
trend or just an interesting campaign that my listeners should
take note of, just to get a sense of the
kind of vitality you see on the platform.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I'm seeing, Sorry, this is Catherine.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
We are seeing a lot of anticipation of the live
action adaptation of One Piece, one of the more popular
anime slash manga titles that's sort of ever been put
out there. If you just look at hashtag views on
one Piece, and that's coming in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I think on Netflix. I think that's.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Going to be I'm interested to see how that fandom
evolves on a platform like ours.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
A sort of anime translates into live action.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That's gonna be cool, interesting, well, something I'll take note
of as well. Thanks to you both for talking me
through this. I'm going to keep an eye on the
platform going forward. It's just really kind of you really
get a sense of sort of the white hot center
of pop culture when when you're seeing what plays out
on TikTok. So thanks for your time.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
This has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in
next week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media
movers and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to
the podcast to hear future episodes. Also, leave a review
in Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing.
Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
which we speak with some of the brightest minds working
in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.
There's no single reason anyone can attribute to the incredible
run Barbie enjoyed at the box office this summer, but
one factor at play driving interest in the movie seems
(00:29):
to consistently explain the success of a lot of pop
cultural phenomena these days. Going viral on TikTok so to
shed light on how the social platform packs a promotional
punch for movies, TV shows, music and more. We've got
Raya Davidson, TikTok's US head of Media and Entertainment, and
(00:50):
Catherine Halliby, head of Entertainment for North America on this
week's episode. Stick Around will be with them right after
the break, and we are back with Raya Davidson and
Katherine Halliby from TikTok. Before we dive into the bar
(01:12):
v at all with you, guys, let's find out a
little more about what you both do at TikTok. You
have similar but not identical titles, so I'm guessing there's
some differences we should take note of.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Hi, Andrew, Nice to meet you. My name is Raya Davidson,
and I am the Vertical director leading the US Media
and Entertainment Enterprise sales team at TikTok. Think of my
team as partnering with studios to ensure their paid media
has the biggest impact both on and off the platform.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I'm Katherine Halloby and I am the North America Head
of Entertainment, which just sounds very similar. But what that
means here at TikTok is my team work with media partners, creators,
and public figures to help them grow audiences on our
platform with organic content.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And so my guess is the two of you need
to do a fair amount of coordinating considering I think
there's some overlap there.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yeah, it's like two halves of the coin.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
There's your paid plan, there's your organic presence, and they
should be working together to drive your success.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Okay? Well that said, let's dig back into Barbie and
put the success of this movie in context. I mean,
was this, first of all, some kind of record in
terms of the stats that one movie has enjoyed on
the TikTok platform.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Barbie, This is Catherine, and Barbie has really been a
phenomenon on TikTok's It's kind of the perfect marriage. I
think of a movie campaign that spawned a million trends
and a platform where trends tend to begin and really
perpetuate outward from there. We know TikTok plays a big
role in driving culture. Generally, lots of trends across categories start.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Here, and that was so true of Barbie.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I think what was especially significant about Barbie on our
platform was just how incredibly varied how it showed up
was essentially which is all driven by our community. But
I saw Barbie content about you know, what you would
expect right the movie, anticipating the film, reviews of the film,
(03:22):
but also everything inspired by the universe of the film, fashion, food,
you know, weekend activities, home decor. There's just kind of
no corner of TikTok that you can't find some element
of Barbie showing up. But I think that that speaks
to the tremendous success the film overall.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
And from a data perspective, though, was there like new
record set in terms of how a Hollywood property has
trended or performed on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
It's hard to say because you're just always comparing apples
and oranges, especially with a property like Barbie that has
lots of underlying and pre existing IP, whether it's from
the animated series, The.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Doll, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I can tell you that Barbie as a hashtag has
over nearly eighty billion views and one point for a
million followers on the handle Barbie the movie, and those
are some really big numbers.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Got it?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
So raa with you and Warner Brothers. My guess is
Warner Brothers, of course, being the one who produced Barbie,
the conversations about what they could do on TikTok probably
started long before the movie hit theaters.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
That is very very true.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
So I mean, like every other partner, we are recommending
that studios like Warner Bros. Brings TikTok into the process
as early as possible to enable TikTok to just be
the most effective and strategic partner that we can be.
You know, certainly, we understand that a specific film's positioning
can sometimes be fluid and may.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Not always be clear at the outside, but for sure
a best practice is bringing TikTok in. The earlier is
the better, and for Warner Bros. And Barbie the movie specifically,
they did bring us into the conversation very very early,
and we certainly saw that early enthusiasm for those very
(05:22):
first Barbie images and activations on platform, and that just
garnered such excitement which was a definite momentum builder many
months before the film hit theaters in July.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Because I think back, Catherine to how you described it,
and correct me if I'm wrong. In terms of the
campaign spawning the trends? Was that I mean, because I
would imagine times as it not necessarily the case the
trends for anything in pop culture could emanate from nowhere,
not necessarily be from a campaign. Was that exactly kind
(05:57):
of what happened here.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Yeah, It's so hard to.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Really tease that all the way out, because again, Barbie
is an idea that predates, you know, all of our
lifetime and certainly even the TikTok platform. And I think,
you know, for me, as a consumer and a user
of TikTok, I first saw it pop when the character
(06:24):
posters came out, which you know, of course, was part
of Warner's campaign releasing these sort of first looks at
doctor Barbie, President Barbie, et cetera. And we really saw
the community embrace that and create their own versions of
you know, this is me as Barbie. This is me
essentially recreating the look of that character portrait to make
(06:44):
my own self expression in their content. And so I
think that is a very clear thing to attribute to
Warner Brothers. At the same time, we saw certain trending
sounds that had been trends on the platform from years before,
like to this from, which I think is a clip
from Barbie the animated series from a decade ago, and
(07:05):
that was a trending sound on TikTok years ago and
then came back as a result of a sort of
chatter and the anticipation of Barbie the movie.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Sure and Raa. When you were talking to Warner Brothers
about this and what you wanted to do, there was
there a sense of just how big this could be.
Was there something about this movie that you were able
to sell them on by saying, like, look, this is
made for TikTok.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, I mean, first and foremost, I'd say it's super
important that we pay homage to the Warner Brothers marketing team.
I mean, they are the masterminds behind the success of
the film both on and off platform, and the marketing
they did to promote the Barbie movie was just simply brilliant.
I mean, Barbie was and still is everywhere. Certainly, my
for you page is still filled with Barbie content and
(08:00):
I'm here for it. And I think, without speaking to specifics,
what I can say about our conversations with Warner Brothers
is that we know that TikTok played a massive role
in drumming up excitement for the film and driving.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
People to theaters.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So I think part of that definitely had to do
with the very early partnership. I'm thinking back to April,
four months before the film hit theaters, when Warner Bros.
First launched their teaser video on TikTok. It received over
twenty seven million views and over two point seven million likes.
And that's some pretty big numbers for a film that
(08:38):
doesn't launch until four months later.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And so does it change the kind of conversations you're
having with studios now for other kinds of movies that
we're going to see in the coming months, or you know,
do other studios say, I love what Warner Brothers did
on your platform with Barbie, how do we do this?
And that I'm just curious if it's been a changer.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
This is Catherine, I'll jump in. I mean, I think
people are going to be saying that about Barbie for years.
I think they've really that, you know, set a new
standard for what a kind of impact you can really
drive around a film to really become a cultural moment.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Got it. But also it's sort of like, is you
know you used that word earlier, you know, attributable And
it's like, well, is TikTok really the driver here or
is it really more of a reflection of what else
is just going on in the culture, And with or
without TikTok, Barbie was going to be big? How do
you know it's the platform at play I've stopped you.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
I mean, I would not want to take credit, right
I would.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
No one platform can take credit for this kind of phenomenon.
But I think to what Rao was saying earlier, starting
early is so important, and that was certainly something that
Warner did with this title on our platform, and I
think one of the key elements of its success, and
again something that made it especially a fit for a
platform like ours, was how long until that campaign really
(10:14):
gave any details about the plot about what kind of.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Film we were all in store for and essentially allowed
the audience to use their own imaginations and spend months
anticipating a film through their own imaginations, which of course
is deeply tied to the underlining experience of playing.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
With the doll and kind of spoke to that nostalgia,
but also is really a fit for TikTok because co
creation and being inspired by one person's idea and taking
a little bit further and essentially using your imagination with
our tools is kind of the fundamentals of this platform,
whether it's responding to a trend, using a feature like
(10:57):
duet or stitch to build on another person's content, and
of course the trending sounds and the music on our
platform all kind of feed that behavior, and I think
it was a really powerful part of what made this
movie really break out.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
And so Raya, when you're talking to other studios, I mean,
obviously TikTok is not the only game in town when
it comes to digital platforms, and some of those other
games we shall remain nameless on this podcast, of course,
but they've been around a lot longer, and so Mike,
I'm curious, what is it that you use in terms
(11:34):
of like, Hey, all of these other platforms are fine,
but this is why you've got to be on TikTok.
Is it about a particular demo that's there, particular sensibility?
What are you selling them on?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, I'm happy to answer that. So when we're talking
with movie studios in advance of launching a new film
on TikTok, I think one of there's just three big
differentiators or advantages we encourage studios to take advantage of.
The first being that TikTok truly is entertainment. We don't
see ourselves as a social platform. You know, we are
(12:10):
a content graph. We are true entertainment platform. And whereas
you check other platforms, you watch TikTok, and in fact,
TikTok's global community is consuming over a movie length of
time on the platform each and every day, so we
just have such an engaged, immersed audience. The second thing
(12:31):
that's the best practice to take advantage of for entertainment
marketers is the fact that TikTok is a full screen
audio on platform. So the benefit there is that when
you're on TikTok, you are fully immersed in the experience.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
There is no way that you could be multitasking.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And that lends itself to being very complementary to showing
Hollywood content in an engaging and a fun way. And
this just really creates a naturally symbiotic relationship between TikTok
and entertainment marketers in terms of our ability to partner
to build active, engaged and inspired fans bases. And our
(13:09):
recommendation is that brands can really capitalize on this by
simply being on the platform and being involved in our community.
And then, lastly, the third best practice I'd say we
recommend and talk about a lot is part of the
magic of TikTok is that it creates a uniquely engaged
ecosystem between creators, communities, and marketers in a way that
(13:29):
really can't be found anywhere else. So people come to
the platform and discover new movies or shows that they
want to watch, We see them then leaving the platform
to consume that content, and then they come back to
TikTok to actually co create about that shower movie and
share it with a much broader, wider audience. And like
(13:50):
we saw with Barbie, that really helps to fuel fandom
and often creates those cultural moments on TikTok and So Ray.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
I'm also curious as a category. I know you're not
going to reveal the numbers. I'm not asking you to,
but is entertainment just a big growth area for marketing
in terms of TikTok. Obviously there's lots of different campaigns,
lots of different industries, but I'm just curious how big
a piece of all that the Hollywood world is.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, I can't speak to specifics, but I can say
that our entertainment marketing partners continue to be increasingly excited
about partnering with TikTok to launch whatever their newest content is,
from shows to films, even music and live events.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We're going to take a break, but be right back
with some of the leaders of marketing and promotion at TikTok,
And we are back with Ray Davidson and Catherine Halliby
of TikTok talking about what resonates on the platform, how
(15:05):
marketers taken advantage of it in terms of entertainment, and
so I'm curious looking ahead now you know we're coming
out of the summer, we're heading towards the fall. Are
there other titles and it could we could talk beyond film,
we could talk television, or music or anything where it's like,
this is an interesting marketing campaign to keep an eye on,
(15:28):
or this is an interesting trend. I feel like I
always hear about these things after they hit, and so
can you give me a sense of like, I keep
an eye on this one because it's going to get interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah, this is Catherine. I will take a stab at that.
I mean with, of course the caveat that these things
are nearly impossible to predict because it is based on
so many contributing factors. But this is the time of year, yes,
mid August, when I start to get excited for Halloween,
because Halloween starts happening on TikTok usually in early September,
(16:06):
which is great for horror titles. I think, you know,
the Exorcist is coming back, and I anticipate that that
will find an audience because Spooky season is such a
it's probably the biggest holiday on TikTok, and we've seen
that success work out particularly well years past. For the
(16:27):
screen franchise. We partnered with Paramount to bring the voice
of ghost Face to the app, which gave users the
ability to translate their text boxes and videos to be
read aloud by the voice of ghost Face.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's our text to speech feature, and.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
That inspired a lot of both film related content, Halloween content,
and just you know, general user creativity. So always keep
an eye on Halloween and just whether it's sort of
horror or more in the comedy category. That's certain bruced
on our platform.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You know, I probably could have guessed that Halloween and
horror would be big after seeing the recent Grimace milkshake
trend play out on TikTok and the horrifying purple drinks
that well, I'll leave it to those two have not
familiar with what I'm talking about to check it out
on the platform. I'm also wondering, Raya, is it possible
(17:25):
even something like Oscar season has any sort of place
on TikTok, because I would think, oh, no, this is
you know, TikTok's more for kids and for comedy and
horror Or am I wrong?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Well?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I think you are exactly right that I mean, TikTok
is a platform for everyone. We've grown to over a
billion users globally, and Oscars is certainly a place that
has an important fandom on TikTok and certainly partnering with
all of our entertainment marketing partners. There's a lot of
(18:00):
citement to build for your consideration campaigns a lot of times,
and so we're really excited about the Oscar season each
and every year on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And when you mentioned globally, it also reminds me like,
of course TikTok a very global platform. Are you seeing
the ways that TikTok is able to take US based
properties and drive interest in countries where perhaps it's not
so easy to reach certain demographics and certain nationalities or whatnot.
(18:35):
Is does TikTok become part of being able to drive
interest truly on a global basis, which is so important
at the box office these days.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, this is Catherine absolutely. I do think that the
global nature of our platform and the way content is
distributed are really key factors for that to actually return
to Barbie. One of the ways that we've partnered with
Corner Brothers on that.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Release was on a point of interest feature.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
So point of interest is essentially a location tag you
can add to your videos, and we created our first
ever fictional point of interest, which was Barbie Land aka Malibu,
And if you go to the page in app for
that location, you will see videos from all over the world,
just sort of the fun irony of that being a
(19:25):
fictional location. Warner was a fabulous partner and sort of
driving the awareness of that by putting it on their content.
But yeah, if you go to that page today, you'll
see videos from Brazil, You'll see videos from Indonesia. It
has really been a way to kind of see that
global snapshot of the fandom around this film and ray.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I'm also curious when it comes to TikTok's marketing power.
Is it about you know, little ad breaks that run,
you know, quick spots, or is it more about you know,
branded content creators doing things that are in the content
that that's interesting. What when you're selling a studio on
(20:09):
what they should do, you know, is it a little
of everything?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
That's definitely correct. The answer to that question is it
is both. So creators first and foremost are an amazing
way for you know, brands just to connect with the
TikTok community. And so a lot of our entertainment marketers
will leverage branded content via creators, and we just know
(20:35):
that creators know better than anyone else but will resonate
with their audiences. And for example, we ran a study
with our partner Susie, and it showed that fifty four
percent of TikTok users are more likely to trust recommendations
from creators who come from similar communities, and even without creators,
(20:56):
the TikTok community genuinely wants to engage with brands, and
the receptiveness to branded content on TikTok is really unmatched.
We've seen unmatched ROI on our platform. For example, fifty
eight percent of our users have indicated that they are
interested in viewing more content from studios, streamers, and from networks.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Well does And so I'm I'm curious if you know,
even independent of those marketing efforts, how closely does TikTok
monitor what entertainment properties are trending on its platform?
Speaker 5 (21:33):
You know?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Is that a regular conversation you guys are having. I
feel like I don't see those numbers that often we are.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
You know, looking at those kinds of trends that we're
often seeing the same trends as a user of our
platform would by scrolling with for up, And you know,
we try to sort of guide those insights when we can,
but I think, you know, you will truly find just
about everything on TikTok every platform. Every fandom has has
(22:05):
an expression here, so there's there's no limits.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So but Catherine, the more you do this, the more
and I guess what I'm trying to ask is, does
TikTok ever become more predictable in terms of these kinds
of behaviors? Like you you start to get that there's
a track record with certain genres, with certain stars or whatnot,
or is it you know what, there's a there's a
(22:28):
surprise every time. There's only so much you can do
to anticipate.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I think there are things to keep in mind to
help make that sort of sudden, serendipitous success more likely.
You know, this is like Rayo was saying, we're a
content graph. So that means every video is sort of
looking for its audience as opposed to thinking about accounts
with specific following, and all of your content just goes
(22:55):
to your followers. And so that means discovery is happening
all the time. Need people are discovering new shows, celebrities,
you know, films that they that have been out for
a while and they've just heard about, or that they
are that are coming soon.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And excuse me.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
The I think the through line or what drives success
is does it feel authentic to the platform, and authentic
to the platform really means authentic, you know, is there
a behind the scenes snippet of an upcoming film like
I saw this from from Lionsgate and a new Hunger
(23:37):
Games prequel that's coming this fall. They shared some content
from the set about a year ago. And it's that
kind of access, that kind of perspective that you're not
going to find, you know, broadly, but maybe you'll find
it here because someone made a video when they had
access to a really cool space, like a movie set.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Those that kind of.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
The joy of discovery and the joy of finding something
unexpected I think tends to really resonate and drive that
kind of snowball effect over time or entertainment in particular.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And so, you know, let's say the snowball is rolling.
I think back to there was that memorable campaign where
or I shouldn't see campaign. I don't know if it
was initially planned, but the Minions came out and all
of a sudden, these kids are, you know, going to
the theaters wearing suits, and I'm like, what on earth
is going on here? And so what I'm curious is
something happens that maybe is unexpected a trend emanates from
(24:41):
TikTok that no one foresees. Ray are you able to
go back to the studio and say, like, look, look
what's going on here? And can the studio then sort
of like change their marketing or adjust their marketing plans
on the fly so that they're able to get to
take advantage of something that they didn't really anticipate.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
So I think that's part of the beauty of TikTok
is really that culture starts here on platform, and there
are these cultural moments that happen both on and off
platform that we can really leverage to capitalize upon with
our entertainment marketing partners. So I remember when gentlemenions started,
(25:22):
and that was a trend that I think none of
us predicted. However, being very nimble across our team and
our partnership with Universal, we were definitely able to put
together some very quick moments on platform to capitalize upon
that trend.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Okay, well, I'm sure studios appreciate that also. Is there
you know, obviously when I think of TikTok, I think of,
you know, watching funny videos. But are there other, say,
more interactive features that allow fans to maybe drill a
little deeper into a property, uh, you know, through options
(26:01):
of any kind and just curious what TikTok might have there.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah, this is Raya. I'm happy to answer that question.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I think one of the most exciting things for entertainment
marketers on TikTok is the fact that we have built
advertising solutions that really feel natural to the platform and
focus on inspiring co creation within the community. For example,
we have a product called Branded Admission. It's an industry
first ad solution that enables advertisers to crowdsource authentic content
(26:33):
from creators on TikTok, turn those top performing videos into ads,
and improve brand affinity and media with media impressions. So,
you know, Brand Admission makes it easier for brands to
tap into that creative power of TikTok communities and co
create authentic branded content that really resonates across our community.
(26:54):
Another example would be our other product called branded Effects.
These are sponsored custos some effects that invite the TikTok
community to co create alongside of a brand. They can
be highly customized with branded elements and.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Include features like calls to action.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
And custom audience targeting to fit a brand specific campaign needs.
So one of my recent favorites came from Disney. They
launched a branded effect for The Little Mermaid. This is
actually the first branded effect on platform that used actual
footage from the film, and it invited our community to
actually become Ariel in the famous scene where she sang
(27:31):
part of your world behind the rock, and it was
definitely a fan favorite and community favorite on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I will have to go looking for this stuff. I'm curious. Also,
you know, I have a sort of an in house
TikTok lab at home with a fifteen year old boy
who discovers all sorts of even older catalog entertainment property,
TV shows on Netflix and that kind of thing. Are
you seeing what I'm seeing in my lab? In terms
(28:02):
of like are you turning studios onto Like, Hey, you've
got things you're not even marketing here that are trending.
You really should throw some marketing dollars behind it to
accelerate it. Or because it just seems like to some degree,
content has a life of its own when it comes
to entertainment properties on TikTok.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Yes, Katherine and I think that's a great way to
describe it.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
The content does have a life of its own, and
again that's sort of because of the content graph and
distribution in the core you feed. And I'm seeing the
same thing I hear constantly from people under thirty, let's say,
younger than me. You know that they've discovered a show
or you know, have I heard of this show? And
it's not even a show that's in production anymore, but
(28:50):
they saw something that recommended it, or they saw a
video that recommended it on TikTok. A few years ago,
we saw a phenomenon around Criminal Minds where there was
just a ton of Criminal Minds fan content well after
it's sort of original CBS broadcast window. And there's actually
a trend I just noticed today where even the idea
(29:13):
of hey, do you remember this movie or do you
remember this TV show has spawned a mini trend where
there's an invented horror movie from the eighties called Zapatha
that never existed, but people are sort of pretending it existed.
So there is, yes, very much a universe of library
and archival discovery on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Sounds like something else studios may want to be marketing towards,
or at least paying attention to in terms of in
this reboot culture world, TikTok provides I think a sense
of the vitality that might be lurking behind this brand
or that, and so interesting to note as well. So
in one last question, you know, is there any particular
(29:59):
Movi the TV show that you think is just generating
some interesting whether it's an organic, you know, fan fed
trend or just an interesting campaign that my listeners should
take note of, just to get a sense of the
kind of vitality you see on the platform.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I'm seeing, Sorry, this is Catherine.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
We are seeing a lot of anticipation of the live
action adaptation of One Piece, one of the more popular
anime slash manga titles that's sort of ever been put
out there. If you just look at hashtag views on
one Piece, and that's coming in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I think on Netflix. I think that's.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Going to be I'm interested to see how that fandom
evolves on a platform like ours.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
A sort of anime translates into live action.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
That's gonna be cool, interesting, well, something I'll take note
of as well. Thanks to you both for talking me
through this. I'm going to keep an eye on the
platform going forward. It's just really kind of you really
get a sense of sort of the white hot center
of pop culture when when you're seeing what plays out
on TikTok. So thanks for your time.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
This has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in
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