April 2, 2019 • 50 mins
Rape kits are simple forensic evidence collection kits used when someone is sexually assaulted. But the story is deeper than this. Learn all about rape kits, the sad backlog problem, and what you can do to help, in today's episode.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to stuff you should know from how Stuff Works
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles to w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there.
And now whatever chipperness you might hear, my voice can
decline from here on out. Yeah. Man, this this is
(00:23):
another one of those that's uh tough topic. It's not
gonna be loaded with jokes. No, I can't. I couldn't.
I can't think of a single one. And anytime, like
I started to be like, oh, maybe we should come
with jokes. Now, that's not like we do that anyway, right, Like,
this would be a good place for a joke. Let
me get joke here in brackets? Yes, obviously. Uh. I
(00:47):
mean if you saw the title about rape kits, uh,
hopefully that is the trigger warning you need. But we
might as well just say it out loud. Trigger warning
for this one. That's all we need to say anything,
right pretty much. I mean, we're talking about rape, um,
sexual assault in general, and specifically. I want to say, Chuck,
I've had on the list for a really long time.
(01:09):
Rape as a topic itself, I think it definitely deserves
it um, but it's I've just been kind of walking
past it every time I go down the list, you know. Uh,
I think it's due, especially after this one. Yeah, but
it's almost like we needed to do this one first,
or else it wouldn't be stuff. You should know if
we didn't do something tangential, bigger topic. Right, we'll do
(01:30):
that eventually. Yeah. And also this comes out this is
one of those happenstance things. As I was researching and
reading this stuff, I was like, oh, you know what
we should check and see when, uh, Sexual Assault Awareness
Month is. And it turned out it's April. And it
turned out that April two, the day that this drops, uh,
(01:51):
is day of Action. So they encourage people to wear
teal on April two, which is today. I'm almost I'm
wearing well it's mint green, but it's awfully close to
t Yeah. It's weird how this is all coming together
like this, so, um, you know action they should be
for sexualists all awareness month. It should be like a
purge like yeah, that's what you haven't seen the movie,
(02:15):
but I get yeah I haven't either, but I know
there uh and that um. Sexual Assault Awareness Month is
carried out by h N s v RC DOT org
the Natural National Sexual Violence Resource Center. Uh. And also
I know that we're doing a lot of uh precursoring here,
but there is one section here on what to do
(02:35):
if you've been sexually assaulted. Um, two dudes explaining this,
like just do this, like, we're not taking it that likely,
you know, like it. We know that it is extremely
difficult to do anything much less like follow all the
exact steps. Uh. So many sexual assaults and rapes get
(02:56):
unreported for a thousand reasons. So we're not taking this lightly.
But this is our job, this is what we do,
and this is an important topic. So please excuse two
dudes explaining a section on what to do when you're
sexually assaulted. But I think that also raises another point
that I want to touch on too, Chuck, sexual assault
doesn't just happen to women. It happens to men. The
(03:17):
trans community is also a big target for sexual assault unfortunately.
So while it is largely women from what I've seen
women between eighteen and thirty five, um, it hits all
demographics and targets across the across the spectrum of human beings,
including men. UM. So I wanted to say that as well.
(03:39):
All Right, now on with the show. Uh, so should
we do the history part first? I think I was thinking,
so I think we should say what a rape kit
actually is. Oh, that's something we always do wrong, but
we're doing it right though we've hit everything right so far.
I think, Um, I think, uh, a rape kit. And
I'm so sorry everybody to keep saying rape kit. They're
(04:03):
also called sexual assault evidence collection kits. You can understand
why people call them rape kits, but from here on,
maybe we'll just try to say kit. Um. They they
are really simply a box. I saw shoebox size ED
says microwave oven size just depends on the oven. It's
a big old box, um. And inside this box is
(04:25):
a all the stuff you need to collect the evidence
of a sexual assault. YEA that a professional uses. It's
not like a home thing. No, but it does include
such thorough, step by step directions that someone who's not
specifically trained to do this can can um can can
can carry out this kind of examination? Does this like?
(04:48):
Can you buy these and perform this at home? If
you're too A thousand reasons why you wouldn't go into
a hospital. I think that, um, you you can? You
can buy them from medical supply or law enforcement supply places.
Both of them sell kits, and they're actually relatively cheap.
I saw between five fifty bucks, UM, So yeah, you
(05:12):
totally could probably not. The defense would just shoot holes
in it all day long and the jury would be like,
I'm sorry. Which they're part of the part of the
process of collecting this evidence and combining it altogether to
create this This kit is it begins a chain of custody.
And if you do it at home and then bring
it in and they're going to be like, come on, right,
(05:35):
And there are a lot of problems with the chain
of custody that we're obviously going to cover as well
when you leave it to the professionals. It's just a
big mess. But it is a big mess. But but
it's still more often than not, it seems to be UM.
It seems to have been a good invention, and that
that is a thing. It is an invention, UM, And
(05:56):
it wasn't always around. It's actually a relatively new invention.
It wasn't until I think that the first ones actually
came into official use by the I believe the police
department in Chicago and then later on Illinois, which served
as a bit of a laboratory for it, and it
was so successful that within another year it started to
spread around the country. Yeah, and just I mean it
(06:17):
sounds like it's hard to believe, but just collecting uh
and having the tools in a box and collecting the
evidence and putting it in a box for storage, just
that alone coming around went a long way toward UM
helping victims be taken seriously legitimizing rape and sexual assault. Yeah.
(06:40):
I mean, it's sad, but that's that's the case. UM.
When they were first brought out, they were called the
two low kits in a lot of circles B I
t U, L l O UH and Louis or Louis.
I never know. I'm thinking since season Chicago Lewis Lewis.
I thought you were gonna say Louis because Chicago. I
think it'd be I E if it were in Chicago Louis.
(07:01):
All right, well we'll go with Louis. Let's just call
him Chicago lou Chicago Louadulo. Now he sounds like a
mobster Chicago Louvadulo. I think the vitulo is really not helping, No,
But he was not a mobster He was actually worked
in the Chicago PDS forensic crime lab. He was a
UM sergeant and lieutenant who, uh did not invent the
(07:23):
rape kit, but he was charged with sort of codifying
it and putting his stamp because he was one of
the first people in law enforcement that was trying to
create a standardized procedure. Yeah, he was already a very
well respected forensic investigator, and so for him to say, hey,
I'm a big city forensic investigator, widely respected, and this
(07:45):
thing is the bomb. This is a great invention. We
should all start using it. And here's how it really
helped spread uh and give it a boost early on.
But even though they were called vitulo kits um, there's there.
It's it's not to say like he was like, yeah,
I invented this. I think he was just um known
(08:06):
in the mind of other law enforcement agents that like
they associated him in in these kids. UM. So that's
what everybody else called it. But really, if you want
to nail down an inventor of the rape kid, it
was a woman named um Martha Marty Goddard. Yeah, Goddard
and but Tula read some interviews with his grandkids and
(08:27):
it's like a really proud legacy. They still get letters
from people from women. Um Goddards, she has unplugged. Like uh,
I saw one interview with her where they talked about
and we're going to cover this heavily later, but the
um the kit backlog, Um, she didn't even know about
it because she's like no TV, no internet, no newspapers.
She really just sort of checked out. And she was like,
(08:50):
that's really sad to hear about that. It is very sad.
So I saw a quote somewhere that um, I think
is Vitula's grandkids said that that he would be spinning
in his grave if you knew about this backlog, which
we'll get too later. Um. So Goddard was a survivor
of sexual assault and she got together with some other victims.
(09:10):
Basically the riding was on the wall like that, you know,
things weren't being taken seriously in many police departments. Yea.
She saw firsthand that like that, that they weren't collecting
evidence correctly, that they weren't they weren't taking it seriously,
which is still a huge problem. Um. And she she
decided to do something about it. Well, the first questions
and still in a lot of areas. Probably the first
(09:31):
question still are like, well, what was the situation? And
if it starts with while I met a guy at
a bar, then you're sort of discounted, like out of
the gate um. Very very sad and very unfair. But
she formed a group called Citizens for Victims Assistants in
the nineteen seventies and went to work, Like she said,
(09:53):
she was doing sixteen hour days um visiting hospitals, talking
to cops, going to police stations, lawyers, judges, basically learning
and working on everyone she could about how to get
a better system going. But she needed money and she
got that from, of all places, the Playboy Foundation. Yeah,
(10:13):
Hugh Heffner's foundation, his daughter Christie was friends with Marty Goddard,
and um, I think Playboy gave her ten grand, which
is equal to about forty two grain in today's money.
And that was enough to go start assembling these kits
because one of the um points from the outset of
these these kits was that they be inexpensive because hospital
(10:36):
they did, they wanted to remove as many barriers as
possible for hospitals to start implementing the widely. And one
one really easy way to do it was to say
here these are virtually free or in some cases these
are free because this community group raised a bunch of
money to purchase the implements of these kits, put them
all together, and now here you're you just use them,
(10:57):
that's all, which is a success story in and of itself.
When know how like big Farmer works in the medical
community in America, Like I could have seen this being like, well,
these swabs and envelopes and combs, Um, this will be
seven thousand dollars per kid. Yeah, it's because we put
it all in a box for you, Marty. God had
gotten the way of that from the outside and still
to this day. I mean, that's why they're not any
(11:19):
more than five to twenty five dollars even from like
a medical supplier. Amazing. So she's a hashtag hero? Are
you doing that now? Hashtag in it? Yeah, relate to
the game, my friend. As always. Have you heard about
this hashtag thing? You gotta go keep doing hashtag? Okay.
(11:41):
See I knew you'd get a funny in there. Um
so that they were developed before DNA evidence was even around.
Um So this was back when it was just like
hair and fiber fingernails, stuff like that. UM, still very valuable.
And uh, I think one of the kits that's sort
of common these days is what's known as the Southwestern
(12:02):
Sexual Assault Evidence Collection Kit. It's like this the gold standard,
I guess so, UM, and it's called the Southwestern Obviously
it was in Texas, the Attorney General's office there in
kind of created this one. And UM, that's sort of,
like you said, the one that people look to or
base their's on. Yeah, because I mean they took the
(12:22):
groundwork that Marty Goddard came up with, going from to
all of what you call in the corporate world and
buzzbeak all the stakeholders in the process of um, apprehending
and convicting people, UM, who are who sexually assault other people? UM,
you know, scumbags you can just say monsters, yeah, monsters. UM.
(12:44):
And she figured out exactly how to put this together
and laid the groundwork, and then from what I understand,
in the late nineties, the Texas UM, the the Texas
Attorney General's Office said let's let's let's purifies it. Let's
let's make it even better, like using what we know.
Then that's what's in use largely today. Although you're gonna
find different kids. There's no there's no actual standards, a
(13:06):
de facto standards, and and and at the same point, Um,
different hospitals you go to, even in the same state,
are going to follow slightly different procedures. They might use
slightly different kits. But some case, some states have said no,
this is important enough, Like here is how you do this.
Here is the law of how you conduct a rape
kid examination. Yeah, and so Goddard and Vetulo, um, you know,
(13:30):
his stamp of approval, her working hard to get these things,
you know, built from the ground up. The work that
they did together was like really set the standard in
the late seventies for this across the country, just becoming
just more a more normalized way to collect evidence and
take it more seriously. Right, It was a big, big deal,
(13:50):
big one. Yeah, not just literally having you know, all
of the implements you need to conduct this investigation, but
just the very presence of these sexual assault evidence collection fits.
The fact that they exist, says law enforcement, saying, Okay, yeah,
this is a bigger deal than we've been treating it.
You want to take a break, Yeah, let's do it.
(14:10):
We're gonna take a break. Everybody. I don't know if
you just heard but won't be right back. It's alright, Chuck.
(14:42):
So the very reason that these kids exist is because
sexual assault is a very unique kind of crime in
that the victim, the body of the victim, is a
crime scene, um, a walking talking crime scene. I mean
like if you're murdered or something thing and like your
body is dumped somewhere, your your body is still a
(15:04):
crime scene, but you're walking around moving. You can actually
contaminate the very crime scene from your assault just by
doing things that any normal human being would want to
do after being sexually assaulted. It's it's, in that sense,
a very unique kind of kind of crime scene. And
that's what sexual assault evidence collection kids are for is
(15:26):
to step by step, methodically systematically collect that evidence um
and and and preserve it so that it can later
be analyzed in using court. Yeah. So these are the
recommended steps if you've been a victim. And like I said,
there are a thousand reasons that you would not want
to do any and all of these things, and we
(15:48):
totally get that, but uh, and I think Ed puts
it in a really good way. Um, in this article,
he said, to receive the best possible care just medically
for yourself and to have the best chances is of
collecting good evidence. UM. It needs to be within a
twenty four hour window ideally critical is critical, and apparently
up to three days it's still viable. But after three
(16:10):
days most experts are like, it's not as far as DNA,
which is the real you know, really what you're looking for. UM.
You will be uh very upset, and you may be
in literal shock. UH, you may have had one or
more panic attacks. All of these things make it very
difficult to to carry out like logical steps. But UM
(16:32):
experts say that the first thing you want to do
obviously is get somewhere safe as soon as you can. UM,
get away if your attacker is around, and try and
find someone you know an advocate for you, whether it's
a friend or a family member who can kind of
be with you in the in the first you know,
hours after this this horrific event has happened, UM, go
(16:54):
to the emergency room, even if you're not injured. Quote
unquote physics like, you really should go to the emergency
room as soon as you can. This is a big one,
not just because the emergency room is where you're going
to um have this kid administered. But also because it
takes such tremendous um reserve to draw on such tremendous
(17:19):
reserves to take yourself out of the comfort and safety
of your home, which is probably where you went, to
not take a shower, which is another huge step too,
And to just say I'm going to go to the
emergency room and um and undergo this procedure and let
a bunch of strangers poke and probably and tell them
about what has happened. That's the ideal of what you're
(17:40):
supposed to do. But if you look at it in
that respect, that's just such a that's such a huge
thing on top of what just happened, that that that
this is required of you to to catch the person
who just did it. I mean from a from a
bystanders perspective, it just makes you want to catch them
even more. You know that that's on top of the
salt as well. Yeah, because it's not like the trauma
(18:03):
is over for you and anyway it may never be.
But UM, go to the e R as soon as
you can if it's not right. If you if you
go to sleep and wake up the next day, you
can go to the emergency room. Then, like it's just
important that you go whenever you feel like you can
do so. Um And like you said, it's um probably
(18:23):
the least intuitive thing you could imagine to not want
to shower and bathe yourself, but that that gets rid
of a lot of evidence. So it's it's a terrible
But they say, please do not shower, They say please please.
(18:45):
If you, um, you should keep the clothes you're wearing
on if you can, if understandably you can't or don't
want to, um, save them. Yeah, put him in a
bag and take them to the er with you. Yeah,
if you have the wear with all to change clothes,
and this is something that they will have you do
in the hospital, have you stand over like uh like
(19:06):
butcher paper or maybe even a towel, if you have
the wherewithal to do that wherever you are, um, whether
it's at home or in a hotel or someplace. Put
that in there too, because when you're changing your clothes,
that's when you know DNA evidence can can fall out,
whether it's a hair or whatever. And in right, just
collect everything you can and put it in a bag. Certainly,
(19:28):
do not wash those clothes and then take those with
you to the emergency room. And then the last thing, Um,
you should know just because you're going to an emergency room,
and even if you are tested with this forensic kit,
you're not required to file a police report. Ever. That's
a big one, but especially right away. It's not like
they're gonna have a cop in there grilling you. Um,
(19:50):
you can file this police report whenever you want to. Yeah,
if you are not comfortable filing a police report right
then you can do what's called a Jane Doe or
imagine a John Doe um examination where they just go
through all the steps and collect all the evidence, but
you never see a cop there. They don't call the
police until after you've left. Um. So that's a that's
(20:12):
a big one for a lot of people. The end
points out though in some states there is still a
statute of limitations of between ten and twenty one years,
although some states have removed the statute of limitations for
a felony sexual assault. Um, but there there there can
be a clock ticking. But we're talking ten years at
(20:33):
the least, right, Um, So yeah, you don't have to
This isn't something you have to knock out that day.
If you don't want to if you're not ready to UM.
When you go to the e R for a UH,
this kind of examination, you are signing up for a
few hours. It's going to take a few hours. Is
not a quick procedure. And there's something else that you
(20:55):
should know that I really hope won't discourage you, but
you should go into it knowing it is a UM,
it's an invasive procedure. UM. They have to collect evidence
from everywhere the um that the the guy who did
this to you or the person who did this to
you was And they're also going to ask you they're
going to take an oral history and they're going to
ask you to basically recount the worst thing that's ever
(21:18):
happened to you within twenty four hours after it happened.
And UM. Then they're gonna go over all of the
spots with things like swabs and tweezers and combs and
things like that to collect this evidence. And it's gonna
take a while. But you should expect to be treated
very gently and with a tremendous amount of respect UM
(21:38):
from the people who are going to administer this examination.
And I would guess to a hospital there will be
counselors available there to be there with you if you
don't have like a friend or a family member there
with you or anything. Yeah, in rural areas are where
they're they still need to do a lot of catch
up work UM in hospitals and things like that. But
if you're in any major city, UM, there will almost
(22:01):
chance that you'll have what's called a sexual assault nurse
examiner on staff. UM. This is a nurse who has
received extra training UM on how to administer this exam. Uh.
Like we said before, like any nurse can do this
and do a great job. But if you have a
U s A, any a sane trained person on staff,
(22:22):
then that's who you'll be seeing. UM. And you know,
like I said, in rural areas, they're just it's just
tough to staff up for for things like this. So
they're still doing all they can to get grant money
and stuff like that to get these people trained up. Yeah,
it's just a question of extra funding. Because if you
give a hospital funding that's set aside for sane nurses,
you just created a new position in a hospital that
(22:44):
wasn't there before. You've given the nursing staff there an
incentive to go further their education, invest in their education
so that they can have this better job in the
same hospital and help people as well. So it's really
just a question of of funding. Yeah, that's it, you know.
I mean a lot of this stuff sadly is question
of funding. Yeah. Luckily there is enough agitation at the
(23:06):
bottom up that that, like the pocketbooks have kind of
loosened up over recent years. Right, it is. It is
something that it hasn't been. It's been as a result
of agitation and bad press, right, right, And you know
this is the right thing to do, Yeah, for sure. Um,
consent is a big part of all the the entire procedure.
(23:28):
They're going to ask you basically before everything, like, hey,
I have a speculum here, we need to do a
vaginal exam. Um. Is that okay with you? And you
can say no to any and all of this stuff.
This is all up to you on how you want
to proceed with this. If they're gonna ask for your
consent for the whole procedure first, and then step by
(23:49):
step before each step they're going to ask for your
consent as well, and they're gonna explain what's coming up,
Like you said, yeah, and as far as the interview portion, Um,
this is really import and stuff as far as what
will eventually wind up with investigators. Um, and the questions
about like, uh, were you on drugs or had you
been drinking? Like this isn't to set you up for future,
(24:13):
you know, grilling by a prosecutor necessarily, but like if
you you may have been drugged or you may have
had a drink spiked or something like that. So all
of this is like just super super important. So they
need to know. They need to say, hey, future lab
tech test for roof and all or something like that. Whatever. Um,
(24:35):
if that if you were in a bar and you
suddenly woke up on the side of the road, right,
if that, that's the kind of history they're taking for
you for those reasons, not not you know, what were
you doing in a bar by yourself? That's not what
this is. Again, this is not a detective asking you
or performing this exam. They might not even be aware
of your case yet. This is a trained nurse, or
(24:58):
at the very least in a red stirred nurse who
is performing this with one would expect a tremendous amount
of like compassion and respectfulness. Absolutely, Uh, You're gonna be
giving blood and urine samples. This is super important to
provide a DNA baseline. Um. They will plug cares from
your scalp. They will swab your mouth. Um, they will
(25:21):
use a comb to collect pubic hare. Um. There will
be you know, we already mentioned a genital exam, whether
it's vaginal or anal. Um. They really like you said that,
They just they have to go over with a sort
of a fine tooth comb everywhere where the assault happened. Yeah,
(25:42):
since they're gonna ask you awful questions like where you
penetrated anally, was an object used to the perpetrator, lick
you or kiss you or anything like that, And depending
on these questions, are going to investigate further. But they're
going to they're going to follow certain steps that no
matter what. But then if you say, yes, the guy
(26:02):
licked my face on like my left cheek, there's gonna
be a swab on your left cheek that they otherwise
may not have included in the normal steps. Yeah. And
again this is like, I mean, I can't imagine having
to relive something like this. And they're right within like
twenty four hours, like twenty four hours after it happened,
like the worst thing that happened to you in your life.
(26:23):
Let's talk about it here. Point to where it happened,
you know, from a stranger. Well, and there are plenty
of interviews that that we both read where you know,
women said it was it was reliving it and I
felt like I was being even with a great care given,
like I was being assaulted all over again. Uh. It's
just so important to try and try and do if
you can. If you can get there, Um, if you can't,
(26:46):
there's no blame, there's no judgment, like it's that's a
that's a normal reaction. This is a lot to ask
from somebody, But this is what it takes to to
collect the evidence and preserve it in a way that
you can catch the person who did this. Yeah, they're
gonna test for uh, well it's not required actually to
test for STDs, but they will ask you, uh about STDs.
(27:09):
I would imagine ask if you want to be tested.
They will offer um emergency contraception as well. And you're
not going to be charged for that procedure or the kit.
Here's the thing go or you shouldn't be No, you
won't be not for the not for the the the
administration of the kits, which is that's great, that's substantially
(27:31):
I mean it's a sixteen dollar kit, but this is
also four or five hours of an ear nurses potentially
a highly trained ear nurses time. So that's great, they're
not charging you. But what's what's a shame what's shameful,
I should say, is that you will still be charged
for any treatment of injuries, saying like you, um, you
were were hit and you need to be treated with
(27:54):
like stitches or whatever. You'll get a bill for stitches.
If you say, yes, I do want anti viral drugs
because I'm afraid of having contracted an STD, or I
do want emergency contraception, They'll say here's your prescription, and
the pharmacist will charge you for that. That's not okay.
As a society, we should not ask rape and sexual
assault victims to pay for their own medical treatment directly
(28:18):
coming from a rape or a sexual assault. We should
bear that burden ourselves, and then it should give us
that even slighter additional incentive to go get the guy
who did it, you know what I mean, we should
nobody should pay a cent, and then even worse than that,
and I'm sorry, I realize I'm standing on a pretty
big soapbox right now. But worse than that, Chuck, Prior
(28:38):
to the Affordable Care Act, you could not you It
was possible that you would be denied future UM healthcare
coverage insurance if you were the victim of a sexual
assault or rape, UM who went to go get treatment
because they treated it as a pre existing condition. A
(28:59):
pre existing could issue was rape. Can you believe that, uh,
sadly I can have stepped down, UM, that they're gonna
take this kit, They're gonna seal everything up, they're gonna
store it. UM. Everything is like you know, all the
clothing and everything and all the swabs are dried out
and labeled and UM, then it's sealed back in that
(29:21):
original box as part of the UM. I guess the
genius of this kit was that every thing that comes
out of it goes right back in. And it is
also the storage device where it's you know, labeled, and
then it's all shipped to local law enforcement and then
it's stored um quite possibly till the end of time,
(29:43):
sadly uh or destroyed. We'll get to both of those things.
And ideally and UM under just about any procedure. Every
single person who takes custody of that is supposed to
sign the label on our side of the box, so
there's a clear chain of custody, and it goes from
the e er um nurse to the cops, to the prosecutors,
(30:06):
to the lab to the prosecutors and so on. But
there's supposed to be a clear chain of custody so
that there's no questions about whether it was tampered with
or anything. I always that's the one thing that weirds
me out about any kind of blood sample I'm ever
asked to give, or any kind of procedure I'm ever
tested for, is when I see them take my blood
or whatever specimen and they're writing on the little thing
(30:28):
and it leaves the room. I don't know why. My
first thought is always like, well, they're gonna mix that
up with somebody, which is not true. But I'm always
just like, all right, well it's out of my vision,
so I don't trust it. Right. I don't know what
that is. It probably stems from having been switched at
birth in the hospital. That's the only explanation. All Right,
(30:48):
we're gonna take a break, and we're gonna come back
and talk after this about the the horrific problem of
rape kit backlog and destruction right after this. It's all right,
(31:25):
so we told you the history of the kid, how
it works. Um, your ideal scenario for what you should
do if you're ever a victim. Um, And the great
ending to this story would be is uh and then
those kids go off and they all get tested and
they have great conviction rates and uh So sadly that
(31:50):
is not the case. Um, And this is all over
the news for years now, as it should be. But well,
first of all, this is what happens in the ideal scenario.
They do store this, it is tested in a DNA lab, uh,
and then it's checked against the CODIS the c O
d I S the Combined DNA Index system. That's the
(32:11):
database from the FBI of DNA profiles of bad people.
And uh if if their hit comes up, then you
have a pretty good chance then of of finding this person.
The other thing about COTIS is this, when you submit
a sample a DNA sample, the codis from a crime
like a sexual assault, and there's not a hit that sample,
(32:32):
you know, we just go okay, sorry, codis cannot my
sample back Like that sample stays there and so future
detective to say they have a suspect or somebody who
comes in and as a matter of routine, they run
the suspects DNA, which I think like just a matter
of course. Now, when you're charged with a crime, they
swab your cheek and then run it through codis that
DNA maybe hit and all of a sudden, this thing
(32:53):
like you got caught robbing somebody's house, but now you're
up for a rape charge from two years ago because
your DNA was entered through this rape kit. So even
if you don't get a hit, that doesn't mean that
there's not going to be a conviction. That's not like
the rape kit was all for naught. Yeah, you know
for sure. Um, Sadly that's not the way it always works. Um.
In the two thousands, there started to be some uh,
(33:15):
there were some reporters digging around, found a story and
found out that there are tens of thousands of rape
kits all over the country sitting in warehouses and sitting
on shelves for years and years and years untested. It
was so bad, chuck, that they became known as the backlog.
(33:36):
Like some dating back to the nineties where they just,
like you said, sitting in warehouses untested. And at first
when I think some reporters started digging this up and
found out like, whoa, this is not okay. How how
widespread is this and started looking around and found it's
like everywhere, and some some towns are worse than others.
Like acron Ohio had something like three thousand, I think
(34:00):
two thousand kits in acron Ohio alone, so um Detroit had. Sorry, Acrony,
didn't mean to put more on you than than you had.
I was confusing you with Phoenix. Phoenix had three thousand kits,
Dallas had four thousand, Memphis has twelve thousand, and in
Detroit a few years back, somebody wandered into a police
storage facility and was like, oh, there's eleven thousand untested
(34:23):
rape kits that have just been that we just forgot
we had. Here's the problem with that. There's a couple
of problems with it. But the first one, Chuck, is
that every single one of those kits represents a person
who found the wherewithal to drag himself for herself to
the e er and go through this hour's long procedure
(34:45):
and suffer a second violation basically is what it feels
like in order to give the cops the evidence that
they need, and the cops didn't even bother to send
it to the lab. That is a third violation. Yeah.
And the other problem is that this could be like
while they're sitting in there. Uh and this often, sadly
(35:10):
is the cases that these people commit more sexual assaults,
so they could be behind bars. Yeah, in Detroit. So
there's eleven thousand untested kits they found. Let's say that
each one was a different perpetrator. The recitative recitativism, that's
a bone headward. The recitativism rate they think for sexual
(35:30):
offenders um of sexual assault is between five and thirty
over a fifteen year period. So if those kits sat
there untested for fifteen years, that means that an additional
five hundred and fifty to thirty five hundred and twenty
rapes were carried out by the same people whose DNA
was in those kits untested. Yeah, So that's that's unacceptable, right,
(35:56):
And as a result, Congress is like, here's a hundred
and fifty million dollars to get rid of the backlog.
That should solve it. It did. It helped a lot, right,
It got the labs going and everything like that. Right.
The problem is is it funded labs. That's what everybody
said was, well, the labs are overworked. What are you
gonna do? So they got more technicians, they got more labs,
(36:17):
and the backlog got worked through in a lot of
cases in Detroit in particular, um the prosecutor, one of
the prosecutors there named Kim Worthy, who's another hashtag hero
of this story, has been like, this number is going down.
We're going through those kids. And it's systematically and methodically.
That's what it takes. It takes someone or a body
of people like specific not just like throwing money at something,
(36:39):
but like specifically following up on the ground. Right. Okay,
so the funding went towards the labs, but that left
another half of this this formula, which is a big one,
the cops. So this backlog got moved through the labs.
But that doesn't mean that the cops followed up on
the results and including cases where there were hits and codis.
Later later research by hoarders found that like a lot
(37:02):
of these cases in the backlog that got work through
hadn't been followed up on. Yeah, which is another problem. Yeah,
there have been some federal guidelines laid down since then, specifically, UH,
the Safer Act of two thousand thirteen sexual Assault Forensic
Evidence Reporting. Different states have new laws in place. UM,
Like in New York State, it is law now that
(37:23):
requires kits to be sent in within ten days of
collection and tested by the lab within three months. UM.
And they set up a timeline for processing backlog kits. UM.
But it's you know, it's still depends on what city
you live in and what state you live in, because
it's still happens. Um. It still happens a lot. It
(37:44):
says here in two thousand eleven report from the National
Institute of Justice, UM, eighteen percent of all unsolved rapes
between two thousand two and two thousand and seven involved
this kind of evidence that had never been processed eighteen
per sent YEP. And so in the cops defense here,
they're they're they're basically saying, most of them are saying, Okay,
(38:09):
so great, that was great. You guys funded the lab.
We are still overworked and understaffed and out of room,
out of literally to store these kids. So here is
another thing, right, so that all this stuff went. All
this focus went on the backlog. As a matter of fact,
the third hashtag hero from the story is morriska Hargete
from Law and Order SVU. Just from doing Law and
(38:30):
Order s VU. Her eyes were so open to this
whole backlog problem that she started a foundation called the
Joyful Heart Foundation that is basically dedicated to getting rid
of the rape kit backlog. Yeah. Well, actually that's a
larger foundation, but within that is in the backlog dot org. Um,
and here's what you can do everyone, since it is
uh national awareness month. First put on something to you,
(38:53):
something toal On April two, go to end the backlog
dot org and click on take action and there are
a number of things you can do. But at the
autom there's a donation button, and uh donate. I set
up a monthly today that as far as I'm concerned,
I'll donate monthly till the day I die, which hopefully
it's a long time, a long long time hashtag long time. Yeah,
(39:13):
But just go to in the backlog dot org. If
you don't have money to give, there are other things
you can do under the take action banner for sure.
So um the back in two thousand and sixteen, while
everybody was talking about the backlog, worrying about the backlog,
doing something about the backlog. Um, the fayette Lle, North
Carolina Chief of Police held a press conference and said, hey, um,
(39:39):
the city attorneys told me not to do this, but um,
I feel morally a moral responsibility to tell the public this.
But we destroyed about three hundred untested rape kits in
cases where the statute of limitations hadn't run out. Yeah,
this isn't sitting on a shelf, this isn't untested, this
is We threw them away. They were incinerated. That evidence
(40:01):
has gone forever and it was never sent off to
a lab and the statute of limitations was was not
up in in these cases. Um. And that was huge.
That was a big, big deal. And he committed his town,
his police department to going through all those cases, contacting
the victims and seeing if they could still build a
(40:23):
case for all and they made it a priority. But
it opened Pandora's box around the country, and CNN got
a speculum of their own and started crawling around law
enforcement agencies all over the country and saying, Hey, have
you guys ever done that? Have you ever destroyed rape
kits what's your policy for that? Um? Uh, when's the
last time you did it where any of them still
(40:45):
within the set of limitations and they found out that
it happened a lot actually, like a lot um police
to make to make room in evidence rooms, they will
destroy rape kits. Um. Some of them have official policies
in place. Some of them is just a detective deciding
that the case isn't going anywhere and we'll say, yeah,
(41:07):
you can destroy that rape kit. Um. Sometimes it's a
misunderstanding of what the statute of limitations is. Yes, but
these kids have never gone on, have never gone have
never been tested, and never will be tested. That evidence
is gone forever. And that is even worse than the backlog.
Everyone is concluded and I think rightfully. So yeah, this uh,
(41:29):
And like you mentioned earlier, just having the stuff entered
into codus is huge because let's say you do nab
someone and it turns out that they it comes up
with like six hits from sexual assaults over the years,
like I mean prison sentences aside the the value that
that has for a victim to know that that person
(41:49):
was caught and is finally going to pay for their crime.
Is I can't be measured, you know, right, And and
also like if you go through this procedure and you
you still don't get a hit in COTUS, but that
DNA evidence is in codis this if this perpetrator gets
caught down the line, you've contributed to a much stronger
(42:09):
conviction against them and probably a bigger sentence because you've
helped establish a pattern of criminal behavior. And in fact,
that's how they call the Golden State killer I believe
is from this backlog of rape kids being put through
and that guy popped up. I think they got him
for like twelve or thirteen rapes um during his serial
killer career through this backlog being moved through, and that
(42:32):
opportunity is lost if you just destroy this evidence untested. Secondly,
it also gives it ruins any opportunity for a wrongfully
convicted person who is convicted previously before DNA evidence was used.
If you destroy this evidence, it may it removes that
(42:53):
possibility as well. So that I think the Justice Department
UM issued some guidelines that say, uh, you should hold
rape kit evidence for a minimum of fifty years or
the statute of limitations, whichever comes first. UM and then
that's that, and everybody said, that's really great, but we
really only legally have to listen to our states guidelines
(43:15):
which are all over the place. Yeah, I wonder if
any kind of like penalty and accountability would help. Well,
I think CNN, like crawling up everybody's but is helping. Sure, Sure,
I think it's UM it's kind of opened some people's eyes.
And that was the same thing that that brought so
much attention to the backlog, So hopefully the same attention
will come to this too, and we can start funding
(43:36):
police departments around the country to like carry the carry
out the legwork on. Yes, UM, I just have one
more thing. If you just and I imagine you could
do this in any given week or day now, if
you just type in rape kit and hit news on
your search engine, Uh, many articles will come up like
that day of of cases like this. UM. Just today
(43:58):
there was one Austin Police department. UM could potentially reopen
dozens of rape investigations after getting a backlog results from
a backlog of twenty almost twenty seven untested kits UM.
I believe they got a grant from New York. I'm
not sure how that happened, but they got like a
(44:20):
million bucks from a grant from Manhattan to Austin, Texas. Like,
we got a lot of money. You want some of
it Austin maybe, But that allowed them to test like
almost twenty seven kits. Another story at Tucson, man was
convicted of raping seven women over a twelve year period
um after police received a grant to test rape kits
(44:40):
and it said and it changed a mindset over which
kits get tested. And then Orlando, Florida man is now
in jail today. He fled the state and uh I
found him in Puerto Rico. And once again, this was
a long unsolved rape case that they you know, they
finally cracked open that kit tested it in am. This
guy comes up and they got him in Puerto Rico,
(45:04):
still a territory, dufus. If you want to know more
about rape kits, just do what Chuck said and search
it on your favorite search engines news. Okay, yeah, go
to in the backlog dot org for sure. Even better,
just poke around there for a while and put on
something teal yes, And in the meantime it's time for listener. Man,
(45:25):
I don't think I have anything toal. You can borrow
the sweatshirt. Okay, it's meant but it's awfully close. Yeah,
I don't. I'm not good with my colors. Family thinks
I'm partially color blind. I think you might be too,
might be. Um, So I'm gonna call this a s
m R. We've we've been get a lot of follow
up on this from people that you get that tingly
feeling and people like me that throw up in their
(45:47):
mouth a little bit. Hey, guys, been listening for a
long time. I'm always intrigued by the topics. I'm a crafter,
and your show always keeps my mind moving, so my
creativity can flow in the background. Uhi, that's the ideal
situation crafting. Yeah. I seriously thought I was the only
person who experience a SMR. Friends I've talked to about
(46:08):
it in the past and come crazy. Nowhere around here
knows anything about it. I love the feeling I get
when I can activate the sensation. The best way I
describe it is like for me getting goose bumps inside
my skull. M it's pretty good. That's a great one.
I wish I knew what that felt like. Yeah, I
do too, you know, I am do that. I want
this sensation. I have it. The first time I found
(46:30):
something that triggered it. I was working in a small
office in the basement of a hospital. It was getting repainted,
and the sound of the paint roller and the people
near me and the office set it off. First I
thought it was strange, but I really enjoyed it as
our office started to grow again. Wearing headphones on a
regular basis and listen to the entire collection of Bob
Ross painting, which I famously or not famously, but I
(46:52):
got to sleep that sometimes on Netflix. So you're not
you don't have a problem with Bob Ross. I don't know.
I love it, very soothing to me, but I don't.
I mean, I don't think he's a SMR. Is he? Yeah, yeah,
he's We didn't say that in the episode. I didn't
think so. Yeah, he's like a legendary a s MR
trigger for some people. Uh, legendary, all right. I listened
(47:15):
to the entire collection and found the soft sound of
his voice and stiff bristles on the canvas caused the
same reaction. Helped me greatly with my anxiety in general,
stress in the office. Actually, I even created a playlist
of people painting would listen to it when I was
stuck in traffic. As I'm writing, I'm listening to your
episode and yes, swallowing sounds can give me the tingles
to Bob Ross swallows a lot when he's painting and
(47:38):
his mike is on his collar. Guys, what the swallowing? Yeah,
now you might have to have headphones on for that. Okay,
I'm so excited, guys, you have changed my life. Thanks
so much. Goose bump headed Candice uh tally or Kali
is in there. Yeah, that might be her her certain
(48:02):
name you got uh uh yeah, Bear and Mermaid art
dot Com. I'm gonna shout out your craft site. It's
like jewelry and things. It's not barn Mermaid art that
I could see. I got you. It's just a whimsical name.
Um yeah. There's like it's something about painting like slows
(48:22):
people down. Like when you're painting and you're talking, you're
just that much calmer. No one paints fast. There's this
dude like if like some some artists will paint, do
Instagram live and paint. Um And I don't know if
you remember him or not, but the um Gregory Jacobsen.
He was the artist who came backstage at our Chicago
show last time. Okay, he did this for years, but
(48:44):
for a year he had like some show coming and
he would just sit there and paint, and you started
watching him originally, and then she got me into it
and it was just him painting. He wasn't even in
the shot normally, it's just his hand painting, but he'd
be talking about what he's doing and maybe answering some questions.
And I never really thought about it before, but it
is like super laid back. Something about painting makes you slow,
(49:08):
just slows you down. Well you know what you swallow
loudly you never hear from a painter, and artists like
you gotta go knock this painting app right, let me
put some some players on there. Or maybe I don't know.
I guess you could be under a deadline, and he
was under a deadline farmer. He had some huge show
coming up, and I guess then he decided, well, I
think I'll add this extra complication to this, to this
(49:30):
crazy deadline. But yeah, it was interesting. Thanks a lot,
Candice uh nay Um. If you want to get in
touch with us, you can tweet to us at s
y S K Podcast. You can join us on Facebook
dot com slash Stuff you Should Know, although who's on
Facebook anymore? Am I right? You can join us on
Instagram at s y s K podcast. UH. You can
(49:50):
go to our website Stuff you Should Know dot com. UM,
you can go to my website, The Josh clark Way
dot com, and you can send us a good old
fashioned email to stuff Podcast the House of Works dot com.
For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit
how Stuff Works dot com. M
Welcome to stuff you should know from how Stuff Works
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles to w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there.
And now whatever chipperness you might hear, my voice can
decline from here on out. Yeah. Man, this this is
(00:23):
another one of those that's uh tough topic. It's not
gonna be loaded with jokes. No, I can't. I couldn't.
I can't think of a single one. And anytime, like
I started to be like, oh, maybe we should come
with jokes. Now, that's not like we do that anyway, right, Like,
this would be a good place for a joke. Let
me get joke here in brackets? Yes, obviously. Uh. I
(00:47):
mean if you saw the title about rape kits, uh,
hopefully that is the trigger warning you need. But we
might as well just say it out loud. Trigger warning
for this one. That's all we need to say anything,
right pretty much. I mean, we're talking about rape, um,
sexual assault in general, and specifically. I want to say, Chuck,
I've had on the list for a really long time.
(01:09):
Rape as a topic itself, I think it definitely deserves
it um, but it's I've just been kind of walking
past it every time I go down the list, you know. Uh,
I think it's due, especially after this one. Yeah, but
it's almost like we needed to do this one first,
or else it wouldn't be stuff. You should know if
we didn't do something tangential, bigger topic. Right, we'll do
(01:30):
that eventually. Yeah. And also this comes out this is
one of those happenstance things. As I was researching and
reading this stuff, I was like, oh, you know what
we should check and see when, uh, Sexual Assault Awareness
Month is. And it turned out it's April. And it
turned out that April two, the day that this drops, uh,
(01:51):
is day of Action. So they encourage people to wear
teal on April two, which is today. I'm almost I'm
wearing well it's mint green, but it's awfully close to
t Yeah. It's weird how this is all coming together
like this, so, um, you know action they should be
for sexualists all awareness month. It should be like a
purge like yeah, that's what you haven't seen the movie,
(02:15):
but I get yeah I haven't either, but I know
there uh and that um. Sexual Assault Awareness Month is
carried out by h N s v RC DOT org
the Natural National Sexual Violence Resource Center. Uh. And also
I know that we're doing a lot of uh precursoring here,
but there is one section here on what to do
(02:35):
if you've been sexually assaulted. Um, two dudes explaining this,
like just do this, like, we're not taking it that likely,
you know, like it. We know that it is extremely
difficult to do anything much less like follow all the
exact steps. Uh. So many sexual assaults and rapes get
(02:56):
unreported for a thousand reasons. So we're not taking this lightly.
But this is our job, this is what we do,
and this is an important topic. So please excuse two
dudes explaining a section on what to do when you're
sexually assaulted. But I think that also raises another point
that I want to touch on too, Chuck, sexual assault
doesn't just happen to women. It happens to men. The
(03:17):
trans community is also a big target for sexual assault unfortunately.
So while it is largely women from what I've seen
women between eighteen and thirty five, um, it hits all
demographics and targets across the across the spectrum of human beings,
including men. UM. So I wanted to say that as well.
(03:39):
All Right, now on with the show. Uh, so should
we do the history part first? I think I was thinking,
so I think we should say what a rape kit
actually is. Oh, that's something we always do wrong, but
we're doing it right though we've hit everything right so far.
I think, Um, I think, uh, a rape kit. And
I'm so sorry everybody to keep saying rape kit. They're
(04:03):
also called sexual assault evidence collection kits. You can understand
why people call them rape kits, but from here on,
maybe we'll just try to say kit. Um. They they
are really simply a box. I saw shoebox size ED
says microwave oven size just depends on the oven. It's
a big old box, um. And inside this box is
(04:25):
a all the stuff you need to collect the evidence
of a sexual assault. YEA that a professional uses. It's
not like a home thing. No, but it does include
such thorough, step by step directions that someone who's not
specifically trained to do this can can um can can
can carry out this kind of examination? Does this like?
(04:48):
Can you buy these and perform this at home? If
you're too A thousand reasons why you wouldn't go into
a hospital. I think that, um, you you can? You
can buy them from medical supply or law enforcement supply places.
Both of them sell kits, and they're actually relatively cheap.
I saw between five fifty bucks, UM, So yeah, you
(05:12):
totally could probably not. The defense would just shoot holes
in it all day long and the jury would be like,
I'm sorry. Which they're part of the part of the
process of collecting this evidence and combining it altogether to
create this This kit is it begins a chain of custody.
And if you do it at home and then bring
it in and they're going to be like, come on, right,
(05:35):
And there are a lot of problems with the chain
of custody that we're obviously going to cover as well
when you leave it to the professionals. It's just a
big mess. But it is a big mess. But but
it's still more often than not, it seems to be UM.
It seems to have been a good invention, and that
that is a thing. It is an invention, UM, And
(05:56):
it wasn't always around. It's actually a relatively new invention.
It wasn't until I think that the first ones actually
came into official use by the I believe the police
department in Chicago and then later on Illinois, which served
as a bit of a laboratory for it, and it
was so successful that within another year it started to
spread around the country. Yeah, and just I mean it
(06:17):
sounds like it's hard to believe, but just collecting uh
and having the tools in a box and collecting the
evidence and putting it in a box for storage, just
that alone coming around went a long way toward UM
helping victims be taken seriously legitimizing rape and sexual assault. Yeah.
(06:40):
I mean, it's sad, but that's that's the case. UM.
When they were first brought out, they were called the
two low kits in a lot of circles B I
t U, L l O UH and Louis or Louis.
I never know. I'm thinking since season Chicago Lewis Lewis.
I thought you were gonna say Louis because Chicago. I
think it'd be I E if it were in Chicago Louis.
(07:01):
All right, well we'll go with Louis. Let's just call
him Chicago lou Chicago Louadulo. Now he sounds like a
mobster Chicago Louvadulo. I think the vitulo is really not helping, No,
But he was not a mobster He was actually worked
in the Chicago PDS forensic crime lab. He was a
UM sergeant and lieutenant who, uh did not invent the
(07:23):
rape kit, but he was charged with sort of codifying
it and putting his stamp because he was one of
the first people in law enforcement that was trying to
create a standardized procedure. Yeah, he was already a very
well respected forensic investigator, and so for him to say, hey,
I'm a big city forensic investigator, widely respected, and this
(07:45):
thing is the bomb. This is a great invention. We
should all start using it. And here's how it really
helped spread uh and give it a boost early on.
But even though they were called vitulo kits um, there's there.
It's it's not to say like he was like, yeah,
I invented this. I think he was just um known
(08:06):
in the mind of other law enforcement agents that like
they associated him in in these kids. UM. So that's
what everybody else called it. But really, if you want
to nail down an inventor of the rape kid, it
was a woman named um Martha Marty Goddard. Yeah, Goddard
and but Tula read some interviews with his grandkids and
(08:27):
it's like a really proud legacy. They still get letters
from people from women. Um Goddards, she has unplugged. Like uh,
I saw one interview with her where they talked about
and we're going to cover this heavily later, but the
um the kit backlog, Um, she didn't even know about
it because she's like no TV, no internet, no newspapers.
She really just sort of checked out. And she was like,
(08:50):
that's really sad to hear about that. It is very sad.
So I saw a quote somewhere that um, I think
is Vitula's grandkids said that that he would be spinning
in his grave if you knew about this backlog, which
we'll get too later. Um. So Goddard was a survivor
of sexual assault and she got together with some other victims.
(09:10):
Basically the riding was on the wall like that, you know,
things weren't being taken seriously in many police departments. Yea.
She saw firsthand that like that, that they weren't collecting
evidence correctly, that they weren't they weren't taking it seriously,
which is still a huge problem. Um. And she she
decided to do something about it. Well, the first questions
and still in a lot of areas. Probably the first
(09:31):
question still are like, well, what was the situation? And
if it starts with while I met a guy at
a bar, then you're sort of discounted, like out of
the gate um. Very very sad and very unfair. But
she formed a group called Citizens for Victims Assistants in
the nineteen seventies and went to work, Like she said,
(09:53):
she was doing sixteen hour days um visiting hospitals, talking
to cops, going to police stations, lawyers, judges, basically learning
and working on everyone she could about how to get
a better system going. But she needed money and she
got that from, of all places, the Playboy Foundation. Yeah,
(10:13):
Hugh Heffner's foundation, his daughter Christie was friends with Marty Goddard,
and um, I think Playboy gave her ten grand, which
is equal to about forty two grain in today's money.
And that was enough to go start assembling these kits
because one of the um points from the outset of
these these kits was that they be inexpensive because hospital
(10:36):
they did, they wanted to remove as many barriers as
possible for hospitals to start implementing the widely. And one
one really easy way to do it was to say
here these are virtually free or in some cases these
are free because this community group raised a bunch of
money to purchase the implements of these kits, put them
all together, and now here you're you just use them,
(10:57):
that's all, which is a success story in and of itself.
When know how like big Farmer works in the medical
community in America, Like I could have seen this being like, well,
these swabs and envelopes and combs, Um, this will be
seven thousand dollars per kid. Yeah, it's because we put
it all in a box for you, Marty. God had
gotten the way of that from the outside and still
to this day. I mean, that's why they're not any
(11:19):
more than five to twenty five dollars even from like
a medical supplier. Amazing. So she's a hashtag hero? Are
you doing that now? Hashtag in it? Yeah, relate to
the game, my friend. As always. Have you heard about
this hashtag thing? You gotta go keep doing hashtag? Okay.
(11:41):
See I knew you'd get a funny in there. Um
so that they were developed before DNA evidence was even around.
Um So this was back when it was just like
hair and fiber fingernails, stuff like that. UM, still very valuable.
And uh, I think one of the kits that's sort
of common these days is what's known as the Southwestern
(12:02):
Sexual Assault Evidence Collection Kit. It's like this the gold standard,
I guess so, UM, and it's called the Southwestern Obviously
it was in Texas, the Attorney General's office there in
kind of created this one. And UM, that's sort of,
like you said, the one that people look to or
base their's on. Yeah, because I mean they took the
(12:22):
groundwork that Marty Goddard came up with, going from to
all of what you call in the corporate world and
buzzbeak all the stakeholders in the process of um, apprehending
and convicting people, UM, who are who sexually assault other people? UM,
you know, scumbags you can just say monsters, yeah, monsters. UM.
(12:44):
And she figured out exactly how to put this together
and laid the groundwork, and then from what I understand,
in the late nineties, the Texas UM, the the Texas
Attorney General's Office said let's let's let's purifies it. Let's
let's make it even better, like using what we know.
Then that's what's in use largely today. Although you're gonna
find different kids. There's no there's no actual standards, a
(13:06):
de facto standards, and and and at the same point, Um,
different hospitals you go to, even in the same state,
are going to follow slightly different procedures. They might use
slightly different kits. But some case, some states have said no,
this is important enough, Like here is how you do this.
Here is the law of how you conduct a rape
kid examination. Yeah, and so Goddard and Vetulo, um, you know,
(13:30):
his stamp of approval, her working hard to get these things,
you know, built from the ground up. The work that
they did together was like really set the standard in
the late seventies for this across the country, just becoming
just more a more normalized way to collect evidence and
take it more seriously. Right, It was a big, big deal,
(13:50):
big one. Yeah, not just literally having you know, all
of the implements you need to conduct this investigation, but
just the very presence of these sexual assault evidence collection fits.
The fact that they exist, says law enforcement, saying, Okay, yeah,
this is a bigger deal than we've been treating it.
You want to take a break, Yeah, let's do it.
(14:10):
We're gonna take a break. Everybody. I don't know if
you just heard but won't be right back. It's alright, Chuck.
(14:42):
So the very reason that these kids exist is because
sexual assault is a very unique kind of crime in
that the victim, the body of the victim, is a
crime scene, um, a walking talking crime scene. I mean
like if you're murdered or something thing and like your
body is dumped somewhere, your your body is still a
(15:04):
crime scene, but you're walking around moving. You can actually
contaminate the very crime scene from your assault just by
doing things that any normal human being would want to
do after being sexually assaulted. It's it's, in that sense,
a very unique kind of kind of crime scene. And
that's what sexual assault evidence collection kids are for is
(15:26):
to step by step, methodically systematically collect that evidence um
and and and preserve it so that it can later
be analyzed in using court. Yeah. So these are the
recommended steps if you've been a victim. And like I said,
there are a thousand reasons that you would not want
to do any and all of these things, and we
(15:48):
totally get that, but uh, and I think Ed puts
it in a really good way. Um, in this article,
he said, to receive the best possible care just medically
for yourself and to have the best chances is of
collecting good evidence. UM. It needs to be within a
twenty four hour window ideally critical is critical, and apparently
up to three days it's still viable. But after three
(16:10):
days most experts are like, it's not as far as DNA,
which is the real you know, really what you're looking for. UM.
You will be uh very upset, and you may be
in literal shock. UH, you may have had one or
more panic attacks. All of these things make it very
difficult to to carry out like logical steps. But UM
(16:32):
experts say that the first thing you want to do
obviously is get somewhere safe as soon as you can. UM,
get away if your attacker is around, and try and
find someone you know an advocate for you, whether it's
a friend or a family member who can kind of
be with you in the in the first you know,
hours after this this horrific event has happened, UM, go
(16:54):
to the emergency room, even if you're not injured. Quote
unquote physics like, you really should go to the emergency
room as soon as you can. This is a big one,
not just because the emergency room is where you're going
to um have this kid administered. But also because it
takes such tremendous um reserve to draw on such tremendous
(17:19):
reserves to take yourself out of the comfort and safety
of your home, which is probably where you went, to
not take a shower, which is another huge step too,
And to just say I'm going to go to the
emergency room and um and undergo this procedure and let
a bunch of strangers poke and probably and tell them
about what has happened. That's the ideal of what you're
(17:40):
supposed to do. But if you look at it in
that respect, that's just such a that's such a huge
thing on top of what just happened, that that that
this is required of you to to catch the person
who just did it. I mean from a from a
bystanders perspective, it just makes you want to catch them
even more. You know that that's on top of the
salt as well. Yeah, because it's not like the trauma
(18:03):
is over for you and anyway it may never be.
But UM, go to the e R as soon as
you can if it's not right. If you if you
go to sleep and wake up the next day, you
can go to the emergency room. Then, like it's just
important that you go whenever you feel like you can
do so. Um And like you said, it's um probably
(18:23):
the least intuitive thing you could imagine to not want
to shower and bathe yourself, but that that gets rid
of a lot of evidence. So it's it's a terrible
But they say, please do not shower, They say please please.
(18:45):
If you, um, you should keep the clothes you're wearing
on if you can, if understandably you can't or don't
want to, um, save them. Yeah, put him in a
bag and take them to the er with you. Yeah,
if you have the wear with all to change clothes,
and this is something that they will have you do
in the hospital, have you stand over like uh like
(19:06):
butcher paper or maybe even a towel, if you have
the wherewithal to do that wherever you are, um, whether
it's at home or in a hotel or someplace. Put
that in there too, because when you're changing your clothes,
that's when you know DNA evidence can can fall out,
whether it's a hair or whatever. And in right, just
collect everything you can and put it in a bag. Certainly,
(19:28):
do not wash those clothes and then take those with
you to the emergency room. And then the last thing, Um,
you should know just because you're going to an emergency room,
and even if you are tested with this forensic kit,
you're not required to file a police report. Ever. That's
a big one, but especially right away. It's not like
they're gonna have a cop in there grilling you. Um,
(19:50):
you can file this police report whenever you want to. Yeah,
if you are not comfortable filing a police report right
then you can do what's called a Jane Doe or
imagine a John Doe um examination where they just go
through all the steps and collect all the evidence, but
you never see a cop there. They don't call the
police until after you've left. Um. So that's a that's
(20:12):
a big one for a lot of people. The end
points out though in some states there is still a
statute of limitations of between ten and twenty one years,
although some states have removed the statute of limitations for
a felony sexual assault. Um, but there there there can
be a clock ticking. But we're talking ten years at
(20:33):
the least, right, Um, So yeah, you don't have to
This isn't something you have to knock out that day.
If you don't want to if you're not ready to UM.
When you go to the e R for a UH,
this kind of examination, you are signing up for a
few hours. It's going to take a few hours. Is
not a quick procedure. And there's something else that you
(20:55):
should know that I really hope won't discourage you, but
you should go into it knowing it is a UM,
it's an invasive procedure. UM. They have to collect evidence
from everywhere the um that the the guy who did
this to you or the person who did this to
you was And they're also going to ask you they're
going to take an oral history and they're going to
ask you to basically recount the worst thing that's ever
(21:18):
happened to you within twenty four hours after it happened.
And UM. Then they're gonna go over all of the
spots with things like swabs and tweezers and combs and
things like that to collect this evidence. And it's gonna
take a while. But you should expect to be treated
very gently and with a tremendous amount of respect UM
(21:38):
from the people who are going to administer this examination.
And I would guess to a hospital there will be
counselors available there to be there with you if you
don't have like a friend or a family member there
with you or anything. Yeah, in rural areas are where
they're they still need to do a lot of catch
up work UM in hospitals and things like that. But
if you're in any major city, UM, there will almost
(22:01):
chance that you'll have what's called a sexual assault nurse
examiner on staff. UM. This is a nurse who has
received extra training UM on how to administer this exam. Uh.
Like we said before, like any nurse can do this
and do a great job. But if you have a
U s A, any a sane trained person on staff,
(22:22):
then that's who you'll be seeing. UM. And you know,
like I said, in rural areas, they're just it's just
tough to staff up for for things like this. So
they're still doing all they can to get grant money
and stuff like that to get these people trained up. Yeah,
it's just a question of extra funding. Because if you
give a hospital funding that's set aside for sane nurses,
you just created a new position in a hospital that
(22:44):
wasn't there before. You've given the nursing staff there an
incentive to go further their education, invest in their education
so that they can have this better job in the
same hospital and help people as well. So it's really
just a question of of funding. Yeah, that's it, you know.
I mean a lot of this stuff sadly is question
of funding. Yeah. Luckily there is enough agitation at the
(23:06):
bottom up that that, like the pocketbooks have kind of
loosened up over recent years. Right, it is. It is
something that it hasn't been. It's been as a result
of agitation and bad press, right, right, And you know
this is the right thing to do, Yeah, for sure. Um,
consent is a big part of all the the entire procedure.
(23:28):
They're going to ask you basically before everything, like, hey,
I have a speculum here, we need to do a
vaginal exam. Um. Is that okay with you? And you
can say no to any and all of this stuff.
This is all up to you on how you want
to proceed with this. If they're gonna ask for your
consent for the whole procedure first, and then step by
(23:49):
step before each step they're going to ask for your
consent as well, and they're gonna explain what's coming up,
Like you said, yeah, and as far as the interview portion, Um,
this is really import and stuff as far as what
will eventually wind up with investigators. Um, and the questions
about like, uh, were you on drugs or had you
been drinking? Like this isn't to set you up for future,
(24:13):
you know, grilling by a prosecutor necessarily, but like if
you you may have been drugged or you may have
had a drink spiked or something like that. So all
of this is like just super super important. So they
need to know. They need to say, hey, future lab
tech test for roof and all or something like that. Whatever. Um,
(24:35):
if that if you were in a bar and you
suddenly woke up on the side of the road, right,
if that, that's the kind of history they're taking for
you for those reasons, not not you know, what were
you doing in a bar by yourself? That's not what
this is. Again, this is not a detective asking you
or performing this exam. They might not even be aware
of your case yet. This is a trained nurse, or
(24:58):
at the very least in a red stirred nurse who
is performing this with one would expect a tremendous amount
of like compassion and respectfulness. Absolutely, Uh, You're gonna be
giving blood and urine samples. This is super important to
provide a DNA baseline. Um. They will plug cares from
your scalp. They will swab your mouth. Um, they will
(25:21):
use a comb to collect pubic hare. Um. There will
be you know, we already mentioned a genital exam, whether
it's vaginal or anal. Um. They really like you said that,
They just they have to go over with a sort
of a fine tooth comb everywhere where the assault happened. Yeah,
(25:42):
since they're gonna ask you awful questions like where you
penetrated anally, was an object used to the perpetrator, lick
you or kiss you or anything like that, And depending
on these questions, are going to investigate further. But they're
going to they're going to follow certain steps that no
matter what. But then if you say, yes, the guy
(26:02):
licked my face on like my left cheek, there's gonna
be a swab on your left cheek that they otherwise
may not have included in the normal steps. Yeah. And
again this is like, I mean, I can't imagine having
to relive something like this. And they're right within like
twenty four hours, like twenty four hours after it happened,
like the worst thing that happened to you in your life.
(26:23):
Let's talk about it here. Point to where it happened,
you know, from a stranger. Well, and there are plenty
of interviews that that we both read where you know,
women said it was it was reliving it and I
felt like I was being even with a great care given,
like I was being assaulted all over again. Uh. It's
just so important to try and try and do if
you can. If you can get there, Um, if you can't,
(26:46):
there's no blame, there's no judgment, like it's that's a
that's a normal reaction. This is a lot to ask
from somebody, But this is what it takes to to
collect the evidence and preserve it in a way that
you can catch the person who did this. Yeah, they're
gonna test for uh, well it's not required actually to
test for STDs, but they will ask you, uh about STDs.
(27:09):
I would imagine ask if you want to be tested.
They will offer um emergency contraception as well. And you're
not going to be charged for that procedure or the kit.
Here's the thing go or you shouldn't be No, you
won't be not for the not for the the the
administration of the kits, which is that's great, that's substantially
(27:31):
I mean it's a sixteen dollar kit, but this is
also four or five hours of an ear nurses potentially
a highly trained ear nurses time. So that's great, they're
not charging you. But what's what's a shame what's shameful,
I should say, is that you will still be charged
for any treatment of injuries, saying like you, um, you
were were hit and you need to be treated with
(27:54):
like stitches or whatever. You'll get a bill for stitches.
If you say, yes, I do want anti viral drugs
because I'm afraid of having contracted an STD, or I
do want emergency contraception, They'll say here's your prescription, and
the pharmacist will charge you for that. That's not okay.
As a society, we should not ask rape and sexual
assault victims to pay for their own medical treatment directly
(28:18):
coming from a rape or a sexual assault. We should
bear that burden ourselves, and then it should give us
that even slighter additional incentive to go get the guy
who did it, you know what I mean, we should
nobody should pay a cent, and then even worse than that,
and I'm sorry, I realize I'm standing on a pretty
big soapbox right now. But worse than that, Chuck, Prior
(28:38):
to the Affordable Care Act, you could not you It
was possible that you would be denied future UM healthcare
coverage insurance if you were the victim of a sexual
assault or rape, UM who went to go get treatment
because they treated it as a pre existing condition. A
(28:59):
pre existing could issue was rape. Can you believe that, uh,
sadly I can have stepped down, UM, that they're gonna
take this kit, They're gonna seal everything up, they're gonna
store it. UM. Everything is like you know, all the
clothing and everything and all the swabs are dried out
and labeled and UM, then it's sealed back in that
(29:21):
original box as part of the UM. I guess the
genius of this kit was that every thing that comes
out of it goes right back in. And it is
also the storage device where it's you know, labeled, and
then it's all shipped to local law enforcement and then
it's stored um quite possibly till the end of time,
(29:43):
sadly uh or destroyed. We'll get to both of those things.
And ideally and UM under just about any procedure. Every
single person who takes custody of that is supposed to
sign the label on our side of the box, so
there's a clear chain of custody, and it goes from
the e er um nurse to the cops, to the prosecutors,
(30:06):
to the lab to the prosecutors and so on. But
there's supposed to be a clear chain of custody so
that there's no questions about whether it was tampered with
or anything. I always that's the one thing that weirds
me out about any kind of blood sample I'm ever
asked to give, or any kind of procedure I'm ever
tested for, is when I see them take my blood
or whatever specimen and they're writing on the little thing
(30:28):
and it leaves the room. I don't know why. My
first thought is always like, well, they're gonna mix that
up with somebody, which is not true. But I'm always
just like, all right, well it's out of my vision,
so I don't trust it. Right. I don't know what
that is. It probably stems from having been switched at
birth in the hospital. That's the only explanation. All Right,
(30:48):
we're gonna take a break, and we're gonna come back
and talk after this about the the horrific problem of
rape kit backlog and destruction right after this. It's all right,
(31:25):
so we told you the history of the kid, how
it works. Um, your ideal scenario for what you should
do if you're ever a victim. Um, And the great
ending to this story would be is uh and then
those kids go off and they all get tested and
they have great conviction rates and uh So sadly that
(31:50):
is not the case. Um, And this is all over
the news for years now, as it should be. But well,
first of all, this is what happens in the ideal scenario.
They do store this, it is tested in a DNA lab, uh,
and then it's checked against the CODIS the c O
d I S the Combined DNA Index system. That's the
(32:11):
database from the FBI of DNA profiles of bad people.
And uh if if their hit comes up, then you
have a pretty good chance then of of finding this person.
The other thing about COTIS is this, when you submit
a sample a DNA sample, the codis from a crime
like a sexual assault, and there's not a hit that sample,
(32:32):
you know, we just go okay, sorry, codis cannot my
sample back Like that sample stays there and so future
detective to say they have a suspect or somebody who
comes in and as a matter of routine, they run
the suspects DNA, which I think like just a matter
of course. Now, when you're charged with a crime, they
swab your cheek and then run it through codis that
DNA maybe hit and all of a sudden, this thing
(32:53):
like you got caught robbing somebody's house, but now you're
up for a rape charge from two years ago because
your DNA was entered through this rape kit. So even
if you don't get a hit, that doesn't mean that
there's not going to be a conviction. That's not like
the rape kit was all for naught. Yeah, you know
for sure. Um, Sadly that's not the way it always works. Um.
In the two thousands, there started to be some uh,
(33:15):
there were some reporters digging around, found a story and
found out that there are tens of thousands of rape
kits all over the country sitting in warehouses and sitting
on shelves for years and years and years untested. It
was so bad, chuck, that they became known as the backlog.
(33:36):
Like some dating back to the nineties where they just,
like you said, sitting in warehouses untested. And at first
when I think some reporters started digging this up and
found out like, whoa, this is not okay. How how
widespread is this and started looking around and found it's
like everywhere, and some some towns are worse than others.
Like acron Ohio had something like three thousand, I think
(34:00):
two thousand kits in acron Ohio alone, so um Detroit had. Sorry, Acrony,
didn't mean to put more on you than than you had.
I was confusing you with Phoenix. Phoenix had three thousand kits,
Dallas had four thousand, Memphis has twelve thousand, and in
Detroit a few years back, somebody wandered into a police
storage facility and was like, oh, there's eleven thousand untested
(34:23):
rape kits that have just been that we just forgot
we had. Here's the problem with that. There's a couple
of problems with it. But the first one, Chuck, is
that every single one of those kits represents a person
who found the wherewithal to drag himself for herself to
the e er and go through this hour's long procedure
(34:45):
and suffer a second violation basically is what it feels
like in order to give the cops the evidence that
they need, and the cops didn't even bother to send
it to the lab. That is a third violation. Yeah.
And the other problem is that this could be like
while they're sitting in there. Uh and this often, sadly
(35:10):
is the cases that these people commit more sexual assaults,
so they could be behind bars. Yeah, in Detroit. So
there's eleven thousand untested kits they found. Let's say that
each one was a different perpetrator. The recitative recitativism, that's
a bone headward. The recitativism rate they think for sexual
(35:30):
offenders um of sexual assault is between five and thirty
over a fifteen year period. So if those kits sat
there untested for fifteen years, that means that an additional
five hundred and fifty to thirty five hundred and twenty
rapes were carried out by the same people whose DNA
was in those kits untested. Yeah, So that's that's unacceptable, right,
(35:56):
And as a result, Congress is like, here's a hundred
and fifty million dollars to get rid of the backlog.
That should solve it. It did. It helped a lot, right,
It got the labs going and everything like that. Right.
The problem is is it funded labs. That's what everybody
said was, well, the labs are overworked. What are you
gonna do? So they got more technicians, they got more labs,
(36:17):
and the backlog got worked through in a lot of
cases in Detroit in particular, um the prosecutor, one of
the prosecutors there named Kim Worthy, who's another hashtag hero
of this story, has been like, this number is going down.
We're going through those kids. And it's systematically and methodically.
That's what it takes. It takes someone or a body
of people like specific not just like throwing money at something,
(36:39):
but like specifically following up on the ground. Right. Okay,
so the funding went towards the labs, but that left
another half of this this formula, which is a big one,
the cops. So this backlog got moved through the labs.
But that doesn't mean that the cops followed up on
the results and including cases where there were hits and codis.
Later later research by hoarders found that like a lot
(37:02):
of these cases in the backlog that got work through
hadn't been followed up on. Yeah, which is another problem. Yeah,
there have been some federal guidelines laid down since then, specifically, UH,
the Safer Act of two thousand thirteen sexual Assault Forensic
Evidence Reporting. Different states have new laws in place. UM,
Like in New York State, it is law now that
(37:23):
requires kits to be sent in within ten days of
collection and tested by the lab within three months. UM.
And they set up a timeline for processing backlog kits. UM.
But it's you know, it's still depends on what city
you live in and what state you live in, because
it's still happens. Um. It still happens a lot. It
(37:44):
says here in two thousand eleven report from the National
Institute of Justice, UM, eighteen percent of all unsolved rapes
between two thousand two and two thousand and seven involved
this kind of evidence that had never been processed eighteen
per sent YEP. And so in the cops defense here,
they're they're they're basically saying, most of them are saying, Okay,
(38:09):
so great, that was great. You guys funded the lab.
We are still overworked and understaffed and out of room,
out of literally to store these kids. So here is
another thing, right, so that all this stuff went. All
this focus went on the backlog. As a matter of fact,
the third hashtag hero from the story is morriska Hargete
from Law and Order SVU. Just from doing Law and
(38:30):
Order s VU. Her eyes were so open to this
whole backlog problem that she started a foundation called the
Joyful Heart Foundation that is basically dedicated to getting rid
of the rape kit backlog. Yeah. Well, actually that's a
larger foundation, but within that is in the backlog dot org. Um,
and here's what you can do everyone, since it is
uh national awareness month. First put on something to you,
(38:53):
something toal On April two, go to end the backlog
dot org and click on take action and there are
a number of things you can do. But at the
autom there's a donation button, and uh donate. I set
up a monthly today that as far as I'm concerned,
I'll donate monthly till the day I die, which hopefully
it's a long time, a long long time hashtag long time. Yeah,
(39:13):
But just go to in the backlog dot org. If
you don't have money to give, there are other things
you can do under the take action banner for sure.
So um the back in two thousand and sixteen, while
everybody was talking about the backlog, worrying about the backlog,
doing something about the backlog. Um, the fayette Lle, North
Carolina Chief of Police held a press conference and said, hey, um,
(39:39):
the city attorneys told me not to do this, but um,
I feel morally a moral responsibility to tell the public this.
But we destroyed about three hundred untested rape kits in
cases where the statute of limitations hadn't run out. Yeah,
this isn't sitting on a shelf, this isn't untested, this
is We threw them away. They were incinerated. That evidence
(40:01):
has gone forever and it was never sent off to
a lab and the statute of limitations was was not
up in in these cases. Um. And that was huge.
That was a big, big deal. And he committed his town,
his police department to going through all those cases, contacting
the victims and seeing if they could still build a
(40:23):
case for all and they made it a priority. But
it opened Pandora's box around the country, and CNN got
a speculum of their own and started crawling around law
enforcement agencies all over the country and saying, Hey, have
you guys ever done that? Have you ever destroyed rape
kits what's your policy for that? Um? Uh, when's the
last time you did it where any of them still
(40:45):
within the set of limitations and they found out that
it happened a lot actually, like a lot um police
to make to make room in evidence rooms, they will
destroy rape kits. Um. Some of them have official policies
in place. Some of them is just a detective deciding
that the case isn't going anywhere and we'll say, yeah,
(41:07):
you can destroy that rape kit. Um. Sometimes it's a
misunderstanding of what the statute of limitations is. Yes, but
these kids have never gone on, have never gone have
never been tested, and never will be tested. That evidence
is gone forever. And that is even worse than the backlog.
Everyone is concluded and I think rightfully. So yeah, this uh,
(41:29):
And like you mentioned earlier, just having the stuff entered
into codus is huge because let's say you do nab
someone and it turns out that they it comes up
with like six hits from sexual assaults over the years,
like I mean prison sentences aside the the value that
that has for a victim to know that that person
(41:49):
was caught and is finally going to pay for their crime.
Is I can't be measured, you know, right, And and
also like if you go through this procedure and you
you still don't get a hit in COTUS, but that
DNA evidence is in codis this if this perpetrator gets
caught down the line, you've contributed to a much stronger
(42:09):
conviction against them and probably a bigger sentence because you've
helped establish a pattern of criminal behavior. And in fact,
that's how they call the Golden State killer I believe
is from this backlog of rape kids being put through
and that guy popped up. I think they got him
for like twelve or thirteen rapes um during his serial
killer career through this backlog being moved through, and that
(42:32):
opportunity is lost if you just destroy this evidence untested. Secondly,
it also gives it ruins any opportunity for a wrongfully
convicted person who is convicted previously before DNA evidence was used.
If you destroy this evidence, it may it removes that
(42:53):
possibility as well. So that I think the Justice Department
UM issued some guidelines that say, uh, you should hold
rape kit evidence for a minimum of fifty years or
the statute of limitations, whichever comes first. UM and then
that's that, and everybody said, that's really great, but we
really only legally have to listen to our states guidelines
(43:15):
which are all over the place. Yeah, I wonder if
any kind of like penalty and accountability would help. Well,
I think CNN, like crawling up everybody's but is helping. Sure, Sure,
I think it's UM it's kind of opened some people's eyes.
And that was the same thing that that brought so
much attention to the backlog, So hopefully the same attention
will come to this too, and we can start funding
(43:36):
police departments around the country to like carry the carry
out the legwork on. Yes, UM, I just have one
more thing. If you just and I imagine you could
do this in any given week or day now, if
you just type in rape kit and hit news on
your search engine, Uh, many articles will come up like
that day of of cases like this. UM. Just today
(43:58):
there was one Austin Police department. UM could potentially reopen
dozens of rape investigations after getting a backlog results from
a backlog of twenty almost twenty seven untested kits UM.
I believe they got a grant from New York. I'm
not sure how that happened, but they got like a
(44:20):
million bucks from a grant from Manhattan to Austin, Texas. Like,
we got a lot of money. You want some of
it Austin maybe, But that allowed them to test like
almost twenty seven kits. Another story at Tucson, man was
convicted of raping seven women over a twelve year period
um after police received a grant to test rape kits
(44:40):
and it said and it changed a mindset over which
kits get tested. And then Orlando, Florida man is now
in jail today. He fled the state and uh I
found him in Puerto Rico. And once again, this was
a long unsolved rape case that they you know, they
finally cracked open that kit tested it in am. This
guy comes up and they got him in Puerto Rico,
(45:04):
still a territory, dufus. If you want to know more
about rape kits, just do what Chuck said and search
it on your favorite search engines news. Okay, yeah, go
to in the backlog dot org for sure. Even better,
just poke around there for a while and put on
something teal yes, And in the meantime it's time for listener. Man,
(45:25):
I don't think I have anything toal. You can borrow
the sweatshirt. Okay, it's meant but it's awfully close. Yeah,
I don't. I'm not good with my colors. Family thinks
I'm partially color blind. I think you might be too,
might be. Um, So I'm gonna call this a s
m R. We've we've been get a lot of follow
up on this from people that you get that tingly
feeling and people like me that throw up in their
(45:47):
mouth a little bit. Hey, guys, been listening for a
long time. I'm always intrigued by the topics. I'm a crafter,
and your show always keeps my mind moving, so my
creativity can flow in the background. Uhi, that's the ideal
situation crafting. Yeah. I seriously thought I was the only
person who experience a SMR. Friends I've talked to about
(46:08):
it in the past and come crazy. Nowhere around here
knows anything about it. I love the feeling I get
when I can activate the sensation. The best way I
describe it is like for me getting goose bumps inside
my skull. M it's pretty good. That's a great one.
I wish I knew what that felt like. Yeah, I
do too, you know, I am do that. I want
this sensation. I have it. The first time I found
(46:30):
something that triggered it. I was working in a small
office in the basement of a hospital. It was getting repainted,
and the sound of the paint roller and the people
near me and the office set it off. First I
thought it was strange, but I really enjoyed it as
our office started to grow again. Wearing headphones on a
regular basis and listen to the entire collection of Bob
Ross painting, which I famously or not famously, but I
(46:52):
got to sleep that sometimes on Netflix. So you're not
you don't have a problem with Bob Ross. I don't know.
I love it, very soothing to me, but I don't.
I mean, I don't think he's a SMR. Is he? Yeah, yeah,
he's We didn't say that in the episode. I didn't
think so. Yeah, he's like a legendary a s MR
trigger for some people. Uh, legendary, all right. I listened
(47:15):
to the entire collection and found the soft sound of
his voice and stiff bristles on the canvas caused the
same reaction. Helped me greatly with my anxiety in general,
stress in the office. Actually, I even created a playlist
of people painting would listen to it when I was
stuck in traffic. As I'm writing, I'm listening to your
episode and yes, swallowing sounds can give me the tingles
to Bob Ross swallows a lot when he's painting and
(47:38):
his mike is on his collar. Guys, what the swallowing? Yeah,
now you might have to have headphones on for that. Okay,
I'm so excited, guys, you have changed my life. Thanks
so much. Goose bump headed Candice uh tally or Kali
is in there. Yeah, that might be her her certain
(48:02):
name you got uh uh yeah, Bear and Mermaid art
dot Com. I'm gonna shout out your craft site. It's
like jewelry and things. It's not barn Mermaid art that
I could see. I got you. It's just a whimsical name.
Um yeah. There's like it's something about painting like slows
(48:22):
people down. Like when you're painting and you're talking, you're
just that much calmer. No one paints fast. There's this
dude like if like some some artists will paint, do
Instagram live and paint. Um And I don't know if
you remember him or not, but the um Gregory Jacobsen.
He was the artist who came backstage at our Chicago
show last time. Okay, he did this for years, but
(48:44):
for a year he had like some show coming and
he would just sit there and paint, and you started
watching him originally, and then she got me into it
and it was just him painting. He wasn't even in
the shot normally, it's just his hand painting, but he'd
be talking about what he's doing and maybe answering some questions.
And I never really thought about it before, but it
is like super laid back. Something about painting makes you slow,
(49:08):
just slows you down. Well you know what you swallow
loudly you never hear from a painter, and artists like
you gotta go knock this painting app right, let me
put some some players on there. Or maybe I don't know.
I guess you could be under a deadline, and he
was under a deadline farmer. He had some huge show
coming up, and I guess then he decided, well, I
think I'll add this extra complication to this, to this
(49:30):
crazy deadline. But yeah, it was interesting. Thanks a lot,
Candice uh nay Um. If you want to get in
touch with us, you can tweet to us at s
y S K Podcast. You can join us on Facebook
dot com slash Stuff you Should Know, although who's on
Facebook anymore? Am I right? You can join us on
Instagram at s y s K podcast. UH. You can
(49:50):
go to our website Stuff you Should Know dot com. UM,
you can go to my website, The Josh clark Way
dot com, and you can send us a good old
fashioned email to stuff Podcast the House of Works dot com.
For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit
how Stuff Works dot com. M
Stuff You Should Know News
Hosts And Creators
Chuck Bryant
Josh Clark
Show Links
AboutOrder Our BookStoreSYSK ArmyRSSPopular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!