Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
As a young kid. My father actually took me to
search for the person that co operate against him so
he could kill him. And I knocked on the door
and he gave me a name to ask for this door,
and he said, you're gonna go ask for this person,
and when he comes out, if he's home, I'm gonna
(00:28):
kill him. You know, I'm ten years old. He wasn't home.
Things always work out for us, I guess. And over
the years, like I could see him carry this hate.
He said it because of him, my family suffer. I'm
(00:50):
gonna make him t I'm gonna make his family summer.
You could blame people for how you ended up a
certain way, Mary, but you to only blame your separate
staying that way. And I'm like, okay, I could blame
my family, my upbringing on certain decisions. I mean, but
I don't have to stay that way. It was kind
of preset because it was happening before you can make
(01:11):
a decision, like if it's already around you growing up.
The only people that I've seen have nice things was
from my mom's life exactly. It was all hustling. It
prevated a decision for me to go down that road.
(01:42):
I'm Curtis fitz Saint Jackson, and I'm Charlie Webster, and
then this is surviving Old Chappo. It's once you brought
down the drug wall. For me, making a decision about
who I wanted to be was the hardest thing I
(02:03):
ever did. Had a microphone on one hare and then
the gun another. Is there such thing as a life
outside of the cartel for Peter and Jay once they're
in it? Well? J thought so. The challenge was to
convince his twin brother Pete that there was a different
path they could take. I say, Peter and me to
talk to him us something. I said, what if we incoperate?
(02:28):
And I couldn't even finish saying the last one with Peter,
your stupid mother bucker just started screaming, yelling. Ten days later,
my phone rang Wenday like twin more and it was Hello,
and He's just like, how would we do it? So
(02:54):
we can't talk about this in the phone. I said,
you need to come by. I wind Jake throw it
out story like that something that it seems like it's
feel like put out and he thought into it, kind
of bringing storming or something. I think that I really
took it in and just I thought about it. Of
(03:20):
course I don't want to go to prison. Who does?
And it was tremendously dangerous situation. I'm just about keeping
my family safe, and I think it was more fearful.
And then you know, sitting at home and thinking about
(03:43):
it and thinking about real ages, winding a way out,
man just one the way out, winding a way to
just be there for my family, killing one different way
of life. My baby that was coming, like just wanted
something different, how wanted to put a life from them.
It made me think about the future, like what decision
(04:05):
am I doing to give my family what they deserve?
And one day it was too late, like it might
just too far gone to even try to turn back.
At the time, Cha I mentioned that I was really
upset because it was not in my mindset. He had
this way to make everything sound really good and like
(04:28):
fictitious almost, and I felt like he wasn't being he
wasn't understanding what he was saying all the way. So
did you dis because it with Viviana before you went
to speak to Jay. Yes, of question, Then what did
you say to I mean, I remember Tony hair about
what my brother had said and she listened, and you
(04:52):
never really know she's thinking, you know, and she listened,
and she was like shot at my bringing it up, like, well,
what if it is something that you could do. I
explained to that I would call it prison though, and
I remember putting her in close to me. I'm like,
(05:14):
let's just seeing the worst case scenario, like they give
me ten years to do eight years if I cooperate
against these people. She was like years, And somehow it
didn't sound bad to me. She was just like looking
at me, like, no, no, that's not what I want,
(05:37):
Like wearing a baby, anybody said that. You know, I
thought this was the best decision for us. It's trusted that,
even though she didn't want to hear that, you know.
So when I made those decisions, I always thought, I'm
really taking away any kind of the selfishness because I
knew that she trusted me. And I would tell they, like,
(06:02):
imagine by the time when we could put this behind
us and just living on and we could be close
our family, just put all this light behind those, all
of these mistakes I made it. And she would tell
me she's just telling nothing to happen to me, and
she didn't want us to be apart. I remember it
was like eating right. We're in Jay's house when we
(06:24):
go upstairs and we go to the bad to him
and he's like, you know, hold on, Peter, who shows
up him? And get your show up? Okay, kids are sleeping,
and I'm like, guys, come up, you know. So I
was actually come on, come up. They followed me, you know,
(06:45):
I'm walking to our bedroom. When they come ahead, I
locked the door and then I'm like come in, like like,
you're going to leave your phones here. So we start
taking our phones off, me and Pe and we put
them in the petalm bed just probably to yeah, probably
we just threw on the bed and you know, we're
just like looking at It's like okay. And then I said,
(07:07):
come in the Washington come in. So in the bathroom,
we have a closet. Before I close the closet door,
then we walked across the closet and we can go.
I go close the other door, and and at that time,
we have a really huge shower. It was like a
twelve people showers and we have all these to a
(07:30):
person shower yet and we have all these jets. It's
like the newest thing, and it just came out from
more and then and it's like, I don't know, sixteen
shower heads. It's electrical, and in order for me to
get the water pressure, I had to put like these
big old compressors. You could hear the noise when they
were going throughout the house, but when the shower heads
(07:53):
were going, you couldn't hear anything, you know, because the
shower heads were so like so much water coming out. Yes,
so you could hear the like, And the compression was
somewhere downstairs and the facilities room. Man, I turned on
the showers and Peter, You're like looking at it, like
(08:18):
what the fund is all? We have a big tub,
we have somewhere to sit down, and Okay, are you
sure you want to do this? Like no, but how
would we do if we did it? I didn't know
(08:41):
what the funk I would say, to be honest, I
was just saying, like everything I had thought about that point,
I say, listen, if we know, we could give them
anyone they want, and if you know, Samuel book five
years for nineteen murder to recorporat whooping a good situation.
(09:03):
So I'm just thinking at worst case that we could
get ten years. And my brothers just like go to
jail for ten years. And I'm like, yeah, that's that
worst case, I said, But I wouldn't know. We have
to first try and see and see how this works.
(09:24):
It's weird because that conversation started to talk about family,
like we're talking about life. I said that if we
have to give our kids a better chance, it's the
only way that we could get out this life. I said,
and beware our families where our wives and I don't
think none of us want the life that's coming for us.
And I think that this will be our chance for
(09:45):
us to change our life and do something different. But
we're gonna have to sacrifice. Listen, Okay, so how would
we do it? He like, I don't know. It's that
we're gonna have to really think of a plan because
us the minute we opened our mouths, we're in trouble.
(10:07):
That was hard too, you know, because you have to
trust someone else. And and I didn't sit well. We
even and about probably like asking a bunch of questions.
I think said, well, how would we do that? As said,
but we need to talk to her a journey. I
think we have to trust him. We're gonna have to
(10:27):
talk to him and find it, like maybe we have
him come down to see us and stuff, we could
talk to my in person. He's like, it's gonna take
a while to come. I would love to find out,
like what we could do now, you know what I mean?
Just so we're like, how would we talkt to him?
(10:48):
Like where we had to send him phone? Like we're
not gonna just talk to him on any phone and
we're not gonna trust anyone. How are we gonna do that?
And I was like, me and my brother both flock about,
and she's like what. I'm like, maybe you have to
go talk to him, chick. Why me? I'm like, because
(11:10):
there's someone else? Why? I mean, like I can't go
you you were reading for this foul, you know, Like
we're like joking. And I said, we'll talk to beforehand.
We'll sell them a phone and we'll tell them we
have something to tell you. But if you're your accepted,
you're in it with us. And then she said, all right,
(11:33):
alcohol this week, Well hold on, I said, hold on,
hold on that we can't tell anyone. I can't tell
anyone because they depend on you too much. And everyone
loves their life and they're gonna convince you guys not
to do it. You guys just have to not say
(11:55):
anything to anyone and keep it between us only. And
we're like, okay, and whenever we need to talk, this
is what we're gonna come talk. And we're like, all right.
It wasn't a simple conversation. It wasn't We were there
like talking about family, talking about past. We're getting caught
up in those moments. It was crazy what I had
(12:19):
just proposed, like to cooperate against the biggest strugglers in
the world. I do remember even saying, like my chapel
and they have a five minute I reworked for each
of them. That's fifteen million dollars. I said, yeah, I
give them all the money they want. Let me get
(12:40):
those fis to me. That's all I need. How would
you reckon the conversation that phone. We were in that
l from for like at least an hour and a half,
two hours, because we were gett caught up talking about
like just our kids and our family in our future,
like what would be Like I told them about the visits,
you know, and the hours like and they kind of
thought about it. How are you talking about visits and hours?
(13:03):
I guess it's just was my my life, right man.
I guess it's sad to say that, but my father
been in prison, my brother's being prisoned, and the life
I know how it works. I had no clue the
sacrifice that we're gonna have to make, you know, how
long we're gonna have to wait, and the danger we're
(13:26):
gonna put ourselves in. I was so focused on doing
something good. I remember even saying that, like, like, this
is gonna be bigger than being lauded. What we could
do to the drug trade. M we just gos difference incenarios.
(13:46):
Mostly it was like Jay and I speaking about being safe.
I want to tell you that I really appreciate that
we had an attorney that we felt we could trust
with our lives, because imagine you had the wrong attorney.
My brother and I felt like throwing out these names.
It was like a no brainer. And I felt like
when we said I could serve him up, I mean
(14:08):
I could serve him up to you, like I don't
think they understood that. We felt like that was three aces.
And the fourth phase was that we would come in
voluntary about had to go speak to the attorney. I
had no attorneys I was ten years old. I know
(14:29):
what he does, representing my brothers, my father. I respect
to him, right, I mean, you could only imagine I'm
in Mexico and here we are, boy, little persons, right
thinking of this big old plan. We have no idea
what's coming, how it's gonna work. We went and make
(14:52):
sure we had a new phone number. Bow he actually
took the phone like we would have American phones with
us as out and I think we had a new phone,
and we added a number. We've got him, just a phone,
and we gave it the charge room and give me
the phone and said, first you're gonna talk to him,
and then you're gonna explain to him that if he
(15:15):
doesn't want to be a part of something that's really dangerous,
he just could tell us and that's it. He don't
have to answer this phone. But if he decides to that,
he's in it. Feel longer. He's in it. He's responsible,
just like we are. You know this is gonna sound bad,
but it was our life right in the way. It
(15:37):
was like we're almost like threatening him like a scared
test because it was that serious. Right about you hear
him going. We made sure we called him and said, hey,
Bob was going You're gonna talk to you. It's important.
So he was curious. He wanted to know. I still
(15:59):
remember about saying Okay, I'm getting here. It was like
the longest fifteen minutes where we had the new phone,
just sitting there, Me and Pete in the bathroom. Wait. Yeah,
so you're back in the bathroom, back in the bathroom, waiting,
just waiting for her phone. Tween Ja Peter and the
(16:31):
wanting me to go to Chicago was like kind of expected.
I'm like, for sure, I'm gonna do whatever I need
to do. I know, it was a little nerve wracking
because I didn't know how he was going to take it.
The attorney. When I flew into Chicago, I went to
his office to go see him, and I had a
(16:51):
phone with me. And the reason I had a phone
with me is because it was a clean phone so
J and Peter can have direct access to him. I
sat down to his office and I'm like, listen, this
is really important. You can't say anything to anyone. The
suspense was killing him, like what's going on? Like what's happening?
(17:12):
I said, J and Peter they're thinking about cooperating with
the US government and we're going to need your help.
And right away he gets up hold on and he's
like putting his finger over his mouth and he's kind
of telling me to be quiet. He's like, I have
(17:34):
in my ear. I have to check you to make
sure you don't have a wire. And I was like,
this is awkward, but okay, I'm going to show him
because I knew it was a concern of him. But
I'm like, okay, does he want to just like look
at me or does he really want to make sure
I don't have a wire? Yeah, I showed him because
(17:55):
it was we were kind of putting him in a
bad situation because I know that he's a trial attorney
and cooperating with the U. S government. It was not
what he was known for. We thought that he would
be totally against it. But I think that because he
saw how desperate, the desperate look in my eyes and
(18:16):
what I was telling him that they wanted to do,
as far as who they were willing to give up,
he knew it was that serious. Right away. UM like,
let me call them. This is a clean phone. They
want to talk to you directly and they could kind
of explain everything to you. So that's what I did.
I just passed the phone to him and he was
(18:37):
just pacing back and forth talking to Peter and J
We're so nervous. So did she tell you? He's like,
are you guys after fucking mine? You know? At first
it was like one of those and he's like, are
you serious? He sounded scared, nervous, like are you for real?
(19:04):
And well, I think it's time. We want to change
your life. We want to do something different. What do
you think. He's like, I don't know, man, I'd have
to think about it. Let me think if this is
the right thing. And I said, listen, we work with
the three bigger strugglers in the world. We could cooperate
(19:26):
against them. We have to be able to get a
good deal. And he's like, ask questions and stuff like that.
I think that he even joked around about a few
things and he said I'd have to find out two
put you guys just sure you guys want to do this?
Are you guys gonna be safe for like I don't
even bring that word up, of course not. And he's like,
(19:49):
can I find out. We'll not tell anyone. I'm telling
you right now, your life will be in danger as well.
Woman's have to make that reminder on him. Yeah, at first,
of like, don't if you tell someone this, they're gonna
like want information. There's too many close ties right as
simplus our families here, the kids are here, Like, you
(20:10):
have to understand when you tell them when you're putting
this in danger, I said, whoever you talk to has
to be like top secret. Just like that, I was like, okay,
I'll get back to h afterwards. I was like, listen,
(20:39):
you know, I'm really sorry that we're putting you in
this position to begin with, but our family really needs
your help. They've come up with this plan and they
really need you to facilitate that for them. They really
want to come back to the US, and I think
that they're willing to do whatever is needed possible so
(21:02):
they can actually change your life and turn themselves in.
They want to just do the right thing, and we
really need you for that. And he was like I
get that. He's like, can I respect that? And I'm
definitely gonna make my calls right now. And I was like,
thank you so much. And I gave him a big
hug and left the office and got back on the
(21:24):
plane and the way back, I was focusing on, Oh
my god, what are we doing, What is going to happen,
What is going to come out of this? What is
the government going to say? What are they going to
(21:46):
put themselves in the middle of We're telling attorney that
represents car tell member, did you in corporate against Yeah?
And you have to hope that he's not gonna see
(22:09):
something to round person that could cause our whole family
being wiped out. And just having that in the back
of your mind while you're still in Mexico, still where
data business is still going. You know. I was able
to speak with it, turning myself like are you sure
(22:30):
you want to do this? And again I just remember
telling him, look, man, I got three names. I told him,
I have chopped for my honor was done, and he's like, who.
What's weird is that I thought I was gonna get
a response, like a fast and it wasn't like that.
(22:52):
It was slow and weird and scary to think that
there wasn't like a quick response quick followed. I remember
when the Turnam first told me that he actually was
able to reach out to an agent, and this was
the first time I talked to him, and he says,
(23:13):
I'm gonna put you on the phone. Are you comfortable
with that? And I'm like, yeah, he's gonna be in
my office at six o'clock. I'm gonna call you that moment.
It was like a humongous turning perfect me. I didn't
want to do it. I did not want to do it.
(23:36):
I felt different. Just waiting for the car, he was
still like in my mind, like maybe not, Maybe this
is not what I should do. Maybe I don't want
to do that. His name was Sam Janelli, and that's
(23:58):
gonna be the first agent we ever tactor. He was
explaining to us exactly what happened when he met my attorney.
The Twins attorney already had a trusted relationship with the
D A agent named Sam Janelli. For some someone from
Chicago having information on the biggest drug boards in the
(24:19):
world sounded made up and he was suspicious, so he
had to make a call to find out if the
attorney was telling the truth. He's I have an agent,
the d agents down there and Wallahara, that's my friend.
I worked closely with him. Sam. He's like, Hey, do
you know anyone that could have ties to Chicago that
(24:40):
would have any information and these people and the cartel
and cappelem to the d agent down there, I thought
about it for a second. He was like, yeah to
Florest Win he said. I was like that, Florest and
I know, what do you know that? I know album?
(25:06):
But now they're they're nobody, he said, nobody's no, they're
moving a lot of weight. Everyone's talking about them here.
He said, are you for real? He was like, holy ship,
holy ship, this is for real. Were you not scared
(25:31):
that as soon as an agent in America spooks for
an agent in Mexico, given the fact that half of
the agents and half of the federalities are controlled by
the cartel, when you're not scared about that, Yes, I
was very scared. That was the rist of we were burned,
and that's what we didn't want, and that's what exactly
what was happening. I guess the agent needed to make
(25:55):
sure that it was true, and I guess this is
information that might and he couldn't really give him. So
we set up a car. We went back to our
bathroom where we felt safe. It's just me and Peter,
(26:17):
when we had the phone on speaker, and he talked
to us on that phone on the phone that my
journey had and he just said hello, like this Sam Genelli,
I'm a agent with the Joy Enforcement Agency. We kept
ourselves like I'm sure you heard of us, and he's like, well, listen,
(26:39):
like how much information could you give us? Like I
could give you all the differms you want. You know,
I meet with chappol my Arthur whenever I want it.
As a matter of fact, I'm gonna go meet with
him next week. He said, well, well, how does that work?
I said, well, first we need to talk about like
(27:00):
how this is gonna work. I mean, like, and you
could talk to you know, you talk to him, you
do business with him. But I guess He said, my
number one goal is that you guys remained safe. And
we said, well the longest, no one knows, right, if
we could just keep it quiet, you know for sure,
(27:21):
that's the number one goal. And I'm gonna talk to him.
Use your Turns office. I gotta talk to people higher
ups and see how we could do this. You guys
are doing the right thing. You're coming on to the
good side. Right before we hung up, he said, welcome
to Timmy, and say welcome to Timms. Fact, Timmy sat
(27:51):
there how did that mean you feel bad? Mine? M M.
Not that the USA part, but the part where he's
a team guy. I realized when we took that phone call,
when we talked to our turney the first time that
(28:11):
we became it's not just that we're turning our back
and and everything we ever know. It didn't make us
feel good. I remember talking to the agent and I remember,
(28:35):
you can tell me fee what I like to tell
people about coming over to team USA. I was like
team Musa, and it kind of made me think, like
what team I are? And I felt like that was
the biggest moment where I felt like a trader. Like
right there, just talking to him, my dad came into
(28:56):
my mind. It's weird how I'm monophone and I'm hearing
them speak by My mind is racing with all these
different emotions, you know. And I said, look, man, I'm
looking to make a deal, but I'm looking to make
the best deal you ever made. He tells me like
I could care less about some some guys on the
(29:18):
South Side telling drugs, you know. I said, I got
three people fail and I told him again, I got
chapel my not and like me laugh really sarcastic Lad,
and I felt like I wasn't getting through either. They
(29:39):
don't know who I'm talking about. They just don't believe it.
And then that's why I want them. If you could
give me information they would lead to that that's what
I want. And we had some like conversations that were
like they're vague to me because of what I was
feeling was soberpowering, like of nervous, so, you know, guilt fear.
(30:05):
I told me, know, I need to keep this between
us because my life would be as my family's life
at And towards the end of the conversation it wasn't long.
He tells me, the one thing I can tell you
is that but it would be the most valuable thing
you can do is start if you can documented some
of these conversations. I'm like, they're like, how like recordings. Well,
(30:33):
I can't necessarily tell you do that right now, but yes,
if you can't. So I went to radio shop and
buy a bunch of recording device. Radio shack was getting
another Florist Twin as a customer. Pete went to the
same radio shack and brought the same recorder that his
brother j had originally used to record Loope at Chapo's request,
(30:58):
but this time the recorded would be used to get
chop out himself on tape. What were the recording devices
like like a silver one with I remember, had like
an orange a screen and they had a USB connection
to her, and then it was like a big blue one,
(31:19):
Like the silver was small, but the bloom was a
little bit thank you bigger. In the first conversation I
recorded was a shipment for like four kilos, and the
fens were supposed to be like helping me a coordinate
to seizure and how we were like still like Rocky.
(31:41):
It was Rocky, Like they're telling me come in. They
want you to come in, like turn yourself into the cussory. Yeah,
the the US government, and then they don't let you go,
Like no way, I'm not doing that. I'm like I'm not.
That's definitely something I'm not done. Oh well, the office
don't have the authority too, you know, to negotiate with
(32:02):
a future tip. I'm like, okay, thank you. Then let's
move on, you know. Getting clearance, I guess from the
Department of Justice, business and things like that took some time.
And when I was first trying to show them that
I was serious. Now give him like a load just
to show them. Okay, this is like men beginning to
(32:25):
give them one of your own lays. Yeah, I mean
I was trying to hook them in, hook them in,
make them want to understand like what we're capable of
doing for them. They were like not able to promise
me that my family would be kept safe or that
my name would be off any kind of all documentation.
(32:45):
And I was like, I can't do that. Then, like
if you get to go rest people put my name
on it, then you blew my over there and kill me.
Tittle mom, I've been getting these many you know, I
get two three loads, were two loads a week, eight
ten times a month, doing many kilos. I told him, look,
(33:07):
I got a load of for the killos coming, so
they couldn't like get their stuff together. The next conversation
we had was like maybe ten days later, and they're like,
what did you do with the load? So why I
went with the load like a km and what you're
doing when I shold it? And they're just quiet? What
(33:28):
did they expect me to do? What would have happened
if you hadn't done that would play in your COVERA
of course, I think people understand when you're at a
bringing that level, like there's no weekends off. The cartel
sells drugs. That's what they do every day. Some people
(33:49):
aren't charged. They're killing people. Some people are charge of,
you know, corruption, some people are charge of moving the drugs.
We sold drugs and we're picking up shipments and dropping
off money every day, where you know, there's something being
transported money and drugs day in and day out. And
they would have been so rare for me to be like,
(34:09):
I'm not going to accept the load for me, or
I'm not gonna this just didn't happen. I just never happened,
especially not during the time where there's a war and
they're telling you to pick sides. That was ridiculously stressful
that you couldn't stop. I wish I could have just
(34:30):
stopped and told everybody, you know what, let me get
some time to figure this out. But there was no
pause button, and to tell them that hold on, don't
send me no work or something, don't send me a
cocaine would have been like made them be like, why
are they choosing sides? So, by the way, whether it
(34:53):
was made them suspicious if choosing sides or the fans.
They would have just killed you as soon as I
was some suspicion. Yeah, and it's sad to think that
you could be so brave and be such a big
shot in your own eyes or something and just be
a sitting duck. M It took a lot of this
(35:33):
talking back and forth, trying to find out how is
this going to work? We are fugitives. The United States
does not negotiate with fugitives. We couldn't actually talk about
how would all agreement work. At one time they wanted
us to fly to the closest district and plead guilty
(35:55):
and then they would let us back up or something
like that, you know, to corporate And that was not
a chance that I mean, my brother were gonna take
it like you want me to go over and Figures
did come back with no deal. Like we said, absolutely
Now we had to make sure that when we were
in Mexico and it was our lives and our family
that we were going to be charted, we didn't need guidance.
(36:20):
And I guess it turned out that since we were fusitive,
they couldn't negotiate. So it was a good faith cooperation.
We're gonna be cooperati with a good faith and then
see how it happens. And they really couldn't tell us
what to do because and then they hold the responsibility
of our lives being in danger in our family's life.
(36:41):
Technically they couldn't do that, and they didn't want to
do that. So basically it was like, Okay, you're gonna
corperate for like, I can't tell you how to do it.
So I used to be Hey, we'll listen, how do
you want to do this. One of the ages wants
to come with me to go see Chapel. And then
I'm thinking they feels jump about the air, like what
(37:02):
was going to happen? It doesn't work that way. They
need him build a Keith. And their main focus was
gonna be Chapel. Ah, yeah, yeah, I mean focus would
be Chapel. We're just trying to do the right deal.
(37:22):
It was like kind of right, not not real guidance.
They were worried about us. I never worried about the
case for sure. In order to hash out the details
of the good faith cooperation, the Feds and the Twins
would have to meet in person in exchange for turning
over Chapo. They wanted a visa for their brother and
(37:44):
fugitive father to be able to live freely in the US.
As far as Pete and j were concerned, that was
a non negotiable. If there was to be a deal made,
the FED sent a team of undercover agents down to Mexico.
They want to come down and meet us. It's gonna
be a neutral spot. And it was nerve working. What's
(38:07):
a neutral spot. It was a neutral spot where they
thought that we could go and be safe and they
could be safe. Did they pick Yeah, the first part
they picked was cobbles and lucas. I guess they'll fit
in right as stories and we would fit in there.
I think that was a little bit hard. They had
that conversation, who's going to go? I think that was
(38:28):
feeling rougher than't even thinking about who's gonna go see Chapbol,
Like if we had to decide we never met him, Like,
who's going to go and sit down with the government?
Did you impede sit and have the conversation? Oh? Did
you sit down in the bathroom again? Were in the
bathroom and they carried on in the bathroom. Every chance
(38:48):
we got was gonna be a bathroom. Thank god. We
had a nice bathroom and there is no Washington business
going on either. It was just conversation and I don't
we call my brothers same mh, I'm gonna go Jane.
He took that responsibility. He said one of us had
to call, and we can't risk both of us. He said,
(39:12):
I'm going to make that trip because we're thinking that
he could be arrested and you know who else going
to meet the fats. It was so like horrible my
first meeting. I got sick, like I was so like
messed up. I got sick on the plane. I got
(39:34):
on the plane, get threw up a lot to plane.
It threw up because as yeah, so it's just I'm
meeting the facts and there's like super pregnant. It's an
ugly time man, just telling my brother like just some kids.
They don't let me go scary. We're in the hotel
(39:58):
where my attorney is saying that I'm gonna leave there
at the hotel alone, and I'm like, I'm sorry, but
just cause I don't come back whatever it is, just
go home and go back to Chicago. You know, I
leave there with this sense of heaviness again. You know,
(40:19):
these situations that put myself and then put her in
and we're getting a taxi. You know, I'm trying to
get information from my attorney and he's like I can't.
We don't know. And I remember walking into the hotel
(40:43):
lobby like and looking around, I see like people looking
reading the newspapers. Like you think they don't do that,
but they do. Walking up they can elevate it to
the hotel, like that long hallway to the hotel room.
And then just knocking on the door. Who knows what's
(41:09):
behind the door? Yea, praying to God that that's one
of the good doors, you know. Having the guy opened
the door and just looking at him, I go through him.
(41:33):
I remember I could see like a room full of people,
you know, behind them. Remember him telling me right away
like grand the wall and I'm like ohh And they
frisked me just for any weapons. They like, all right,
go ahead. I was like okay, I was waiting for handcuffs.
(41:54):
And then he introduced himself and I see everyone and
it's weird, you know, and they are kind of like
looking at me, like looking at each other, like really,
it's just the guy. And I noticed that you did
in those circumstances that they have comes and I'm like,
(42:16):
you didn't tell nobody I was here, right, and the
guys like I know you. He's looking like, yeah, I
know you. When he said that to me, I'm like,
he knows me? Wait, I said, are use the guy
from the gym? And he was like, yeah, how do
(42:38):
you know? I was like, you don't know me? I said,
you know my brother and like you don't want to
drive that, you know, black expedition. He's like, yeah, how
do you know that? And like everyone knows that my
brother was going to the stupid gym And he tells me.
And there's a guy in there, just like a fat
(42:59):
he'll be working on stuff, but you're looking around, but
he has a he's been wearing a barriede sweater. He
has like comparison what he's for it, you know. I'm like,
all right, just stop going to the gym. Just too bad.
And I stopped going with the people too, Like you're
not gonna imagine him with the phones and everything. The
next time, Jade calls me like, bro, it's the facts
(43:22):
that guy told you about. I followed him out like
he was in a black expedition with diplomatic plates. I'm like,
stop going to the gym, man, you know, stop playing
around with that. Just stop going to the gym. And
this agent turns out to be the guy from the gym,
then he's nerves like how do you know what cards? Right?
(43:42):
And then I have to go through this. I'm like, wait,
they know what kind of courage you, right, they know
what subdivision you're living because of your diplomatic plates. I said,
there's some one of you guys drive a lane cruiser,
you know, like looking at each other like I'm like
one of you guys has pit bulls or something, right,
They're like shocked. We kind of get into the conversations.
(44:07):
I remember the first thing I talked to him about
was like, look, I have I have a lot of
information for you guys, but I need to be reassured
and easier to know that I want. I want to
promise that and no harm is gonna be come to
my family, that you're gonna promise to keep them safe
and that then nobody in my family will be prosecuted
for any of the crimes related to my drug trafficking.
(44:31):
And it was like, do you think we can give
a funk about your family? I'm just saying though this
is the number one thing I don't want just to
I didn't come here for that. Kind of went through
the story of you know, to what degree involved in
the cartel, and they would just look at each other.
(44:53):
And when I would say that, and they're like, what
do you think you move a month? How much cocaine
do you think? Curiousity? And I'm momsly, basically, I'm like,
I don't know, fifty units, two keys or something. I
can imagine like now the way that sounds. But at
the time, I was like, no big deal. I'm not
(45:15):
seeing it like no big deal. But it was just
like your life, you know, God look at each other
and they can't explain to me their position. I remember
the first time the prosecutor did threaten me a little bit,
like he got a little like back up. I looked
at my turn, like this fucking guy doesn't know. You
don't have to thriven me. I'm here to talk to you.
(45:37):
There's nothing you can say. There's gonna you're not gonna
put bear in mind, like I'm here to talk to you.
I know what I'm looking at. What did you say?
I think about life in prison? And I'm like, I'm
here talking to you, like, wait, what's wrong. I guess
he had that in his mind, like to get a
little bit like show you who's boss and the way. Yeah,
And I'm like, I'm here talking to you. I came
(45:59):
in here brilliant to speak to you. And of course
we discussed what I was interested in, getting the best
deal possible, you know, the talk of being truthful. I
have a lot of information that comes to realize that
they're saying that yeah, yeah, all that submarine talk and
(46:20):
all that tons of cocaine and pens and fifties and
millions of dollars and it's good, but it's not good
that we can't put a case around it. But we
needed a solid case and chops and we could get
him with the recording that leads back to a drug
seizure in Chicago. I promise you the best deal you
(46:45):
can ever imagine. You get, the besier the government has
ever given up. And I was like, that's it, just again.
Step It was one like that's how you want like,
and they are looking like I was crazy. I left
them feeling like kind of weird because no plan, Like
(47:09):
I'm thinking They're gonna come and be like here, look
at this is like a special pen with a GPS
and on specially like recording device. This is how you're
gonna do it. And we're gonna do this, and we're
gonna and it wasn't like that. It doesn't feel good
to me. They didn't really tell me nothing like we're
kind of on our own a little bit. I went
(47:31):
in there. I turned myself in with the hope that
everything wouldn't be turned out for the best. And the
one thing I had was that I provided extraordinary cooperation.
I do remember like my brother calling him, I want
to know details, and I remember him saying, Bro, they
(47:57):
don't know what the fun they're doing. They're lost. They're
just lost. I don't know if this is a good idea.
That didn't make us feel good. He was upset. He
came back. He was just frustrating, he said. I asked
(48:18):
on what they wanted. They said that they wanted to
phone conversation with Choppo, and I was like, all right,
and they looked at me. He said, how long did
you think he will take you? And he's like, non,
give me a couple of weeks, and they laughed. He said, bro,
they laughed at me. He was so upset with that.
(48:39):
He said that they made me write a diagram of
where we were were in the cartel, and he has
a piece of paper ricks he said, this is what
I drew and he writes the name Chop point Mayo
and a b l at was trying it and he
does three looks, fix a P which point don't you understand?
(49:16):
Surviving l Chapo, The Twins Who brought Down a Drug
Lord is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and me
Charlie Webster. Our producers are myself alongside Jackson mcclennan. Research
and editorial support is from Casey Hurtz. Edit and sound
design by Nico Palella. Original score by Ryan Sorenson. Executive
(49:38):
produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and myself Charlie Webster.
If you'd like to know more about this story, head
over to lions Gate Sound dot com. Curtis fifty tent
Jackson presents a lions Gate Sound and G Unit audio
production exclusively for a Heart podcast