October 18, 2023 • 31 mins
Inside prison, the twins are separated for the first time in their lives. On the outside, their wives are forced to adjust to a life living under the radar. Jay is taken to MCC New York, known as the ‘Guantanamo Bay’ of New York.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I do remember, like, imagine where we're gonna end up,
were like, well, life was gonna be I had no clue.
Sacrifice We're gonna have to make every day. It was
gonna take work, and every day it was gonna take
a thought process to make sure that I was going
to be a different person. Hey, it's fifty.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Cent and I'm Charlie Webster. This is a five and
old chapter The Twins who brought down a reward season two.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The Baby and the Bentley were crazy and caused some
real problems for the brothers, but it was the third
beat the Billboards they completely turned up what their lives
were about to look like in prison. The twins had
been together since they won people who even called them
just twin for twenty eight years. Every decision they made,
(01:12):
they made it together, and now they were both a
long for the first time in their lives, they didn't
have each other.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
To rely on.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
The billboards meant their special privilege of being housed together
in prison was taken away. Jay was blamed and pulled
from his cell in the middle of the night. He
was put on a plane to the notoriously inhumane mcc
New York. The conditions there are so bad that in
twenty twenty one it had to be shut down. Over
two years later it remains that way whilst the government
(01:43):
figures out what to do with it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So MCC New York was to us was the worst
place because it was a woodsick unit in the MCC
Metropolitan and Correctional Center, which is where they house Chapel
Epstein and and they house 'em in the s in
the segregated to shoot you know unit and on the
(02:11):
third floor is where they kept you know with it.
It's a special unit for cooperators, and it's the worst thing.
It was like a like really intense watch on you okay,
on your mail, on anything. Cause it's fourteen sixteen cells.
(02:34):
There's probably fourteen in me all the trouble makers, right,
the worst of the worst. That's your last spot, either
your it's your last spot before you get kicked out
the program or or if you're going there to go
to court to testify, you know, that's where you go.
And it's the worst place. They let you out to
(02:58):
to the rooftop me once a week for now. This
is the worst part. That the food is cooked by
the inmates in the building. They know that that units
for cooperators. So every time they send the food trays out,
they come with a little specialist price. I'm talking about
every time if it's gonna be a dead rat, little
(03:21):
chest who knows what they do to the photo. And
I actually never ate their food. That one time I
survived to have a peanut butter and noodles, and my
worst luck, I didn't have a phone. They had took
my privileges away. I didn't have my brother for me.
(03:45):
It was one of the most part of the hardest
ever I had gone through, since I had been in
prison and no communication, no visits, being in this place,
being without my brother, being like like just lost and
not knowing why.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Jay was struggling, not just because he was without Pete,
but in mcc New York, communication was limited so he
wasn't able to see his family. Val could tell how
badly Jay was struggling and did everything she could to
get Jay moved.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I ended up saying her eight months and I will
say thank you to my wife.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Is like when she found out I was there, she
knew about the place and we would write each other's
like she fought, you know, she went hiring attorney because
they were on budget until finally the head of the
people who are handling us happened.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
To do a routine visit to the unit. And they
come and they see you. They're ahead of people who
actually handle or witness protection. You could talk to him,
express your concern, just you know. And I said, hey,
like you, why am I here? Like you put me
here with the worst of the worst? Like you know
what you did? I'm like, what did I do?
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Like you?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
No, I don't know what you do. Like listen, it
doesn't even matter. One of the other guys try to
kick me off at the meeting. I'm like, listen. And
I waited for a long time for this. Tell me
what I did? You know if I did it? You know,
I'll be honest. But how am I supposed to know
what I did? And while I'm here? So he liked,
you want to tell me about your billboards? I was like, billboards, Hey,
(05:32):
can't you want tell me about the billboard you put
up on the side of your inside room for your wife?
I said, yeah, sure, you just got the wrong one.
He said, what you got the wrong one? And he
looks at him and he's like, what And you got
the wrong one? I know that it was a billboard
(05:54):
stud that was my brother. So I had a fight
for eight months. I mean, val in life fought every
day to get out that place. I was miserable, you know.
Valve would come see me sometimes for forty minutes at times,
(06:15):
and we had.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Problems in the country and the kids, and the kids
were small.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I did have a low advantage that you could only
see out the window out the in front of the courthouse.
It's right across from the courthouse. And one time the
val brought the kids and my son he loved baseball.
Then I actually brought the basis in the tea ball
and she got all the kids and they had a
baseball game. But I looked at the window. You know,
(06:44):
he's funny. He would see catchers, you know how they
picked their mask off to see where the ball when
they have a high fly ball. But in his head
that every time he hit the ball or something, he
had knock his cap off and run. He's a baby.
He's two years old, you know, two and a half
years old. And I got to see that. I would
(07:05):
look at the window and every sometimes where I used
to sit on that window just see you or just
look outside I'm like, I don't do anything to just
be able to see val. And one of those times
I was looking at the window. It was like kind
of you know, sun was setting and I'm looking down
the street and I see like, okay, I see hips
(07:29):
and I'll never forget her. She's walking, she's putting her suitcase.
She just happened to stop by just to see it.
I'm looking at the window that kind of weekday and
she comes to the window and she's like ruin me kisses,
and it hurt me so much, like not to be
able to talk to her, not to be able to
(07:51):
see anything, and I felt closing, and like I felt
closing even though I was like there there are just
no commit unication that I decided to make science for
the next time she ever came. I could just show
her with science, you know. I made science like I
love you, be careful, and different signs. I had them
(08:11):
like we're paint a bunch of different science like where
are the kids? Tell the kids I love them, and
I would put them on the window. And it was hard.
It was a hard time that suffering and led me
to be in a place where I was able to
do the rest of my time comfortable.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
The upside of the mix up was that Jay was
able to pick any prison he wanted to go to.
After the horrors of mcc New York.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
They said where do you want to go? People will
come in from different places and I asked him, Hey,
how is this place? And they're like, they'll say did,
They'll say that, And then a couple of guys came
out They're gonna go test the fire. And I said,
where are you coming from? And they're like, this spot here.
I'm like, how is it? It's great. There's three day visits.
(09:11):
The fool's good, you know. I'm like, there's three day visits.
He's like, yeah, you should try to make it out
there or whatever. I'm like, I know where about to go.
We're so happy with a three day visits. And and
after that just kind of settled in and I do
the rest of my time there, and it helped. We
had treated visits also. We would have Saturday Sunday for
(09:31):
the kids. We have to We'll switch it for Mondays.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
It was night.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It was day night for us sure, and it was
it was a lot of relaxed to where I got
to play with the kids when they were smaller, like
they had a car proaction that I could wrestle with
them on the floor and just play with them. Sit
down and you know, I'm right next to the garden.
They appreciate it. They like to see you with your kids.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Where was that that?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I can't say? Okay, it was like, you know, it
was like one of those like you when you look
at we look at the positives of bad moments, and
for sure that became a positive. But still, you know,
it was the beginning of me not having my brother.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
As Jay mentioned, the twins aren't always allowed to say
where they were in prison. Some of the locations are
highly confidential. When Jay first was taken from his brother,
(10:33):
Pete was left with an empty bed next to him.
What was it like when you both got separated?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
How hard did you find that? It was super difficult
for us? You know, they felt like it was hard
for us to be together sometimes because we were like
clash a line, and then it was really hard, like
just in the rawness of our relationship where he's still
my brother, you know. And I don't want people to
get it like misunderstand. I think my brother and I
(10:59):
are always like being each other is protected and it
was super difficult to not be with them.
Speaker 7 (11:07):
You know, what was it like that first morning when
you realized that he'd been taken and that that was it.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You weren't going to be together that day they take him.
It was like three four in the morning and they
locked myself back door and I look and I'm like,
they're probably taking him to the shoe and go back
to sleep, and I, you know, woke up around seven
thirty and the other constantly comes in throws me guardage
back and says, draw your brother's shit in there, like
(11:35):
and where my brother? So when I get up to
go calm, like they took my brother, the phones were
off the security and they shut the phones off. But
I'm like, damn, never seen him. Shut the poond up
and he was gone. And it's hard to think that
everything they had to go through. It was difficult me
just thinking they were there. Now, you know, I had
to get used to like not having like my poin brother.
(11:59):
We do everything together. We made it that far together.
There's so much lesson doing our case. And it was
hard because we were about to go to one of
the hardest situations we've gone through them in prison, and
we needed each other. It was very hard.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
Because up in Silva, you'd always have the opportunity to
be together and you'd always, you know what, for me,
made decisions together since you were born.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Like it wasn't just I don't know, it was like
since you were born. Yeah, that was hard because my
brother and I have always had that mentality. Then we'd
figure out a way to find a way. And I
think at first it was sad. Of course, it was
hurtful to think that my brother wasn't there when I
first realized that he wasn't there with me no more.
(12:52):
But in a weird way, I feel like we're gonna
find a way to get back together. It's not mentally
at the time, we're still a couple months into prison.
I was like, yeah, we're gonna take care of us,
you know. I remember the person in charge of the
(13:15):
of our units. I remember he had a visit and
he came to me and tells me, I just want
you to know something. You don't run this shit. I don't.
I was like, all right, okay, you're right, But you know,
(13:38):
to have them kind of like people over you in
that situation, they wanted to keep reminding you that they
had control over your life, and they would be inappropriate
about at times, you know, things they would say about
my personal issues and the things they heard over the
phone and stuff like that, and that kind of bothered me,
like that was like something I can't get used to,
you know, then you'll never get used to. But I
(14:03):
thinking that I was gonna be able to find a
way to be with my brother was always like freshen
my mind. And I could only hear from them through Viviana,
and there was like another burden for her thing to
put that on her to like, hey, in tapletaing care
of kids and everything you do, make sure you know
everything about my brother.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
When it was discovered that it was actually Pete who
puts up the billboards and not Jay, Pete was disciplined.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So I got a couple of disciplined writers for like
endangering the safety of the step and other inmates, you know,
for reaching out to the public or but you know,
all kinds of stuff. It took my phone, my visits.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And then it was Pete's turn to be transferred. Putting
the billboards out there meant there was a risk that
his location had been compromised.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
It was just a stressful time, because like I ain't
to be in trust to the worst place that you
can be at. I mean it was just just a
miserable place. Everyone there was miserable. It's always cold. There
(15:18):
are all steel walls, and you have the thing they
steal toilet and you're allowed to wreck three times a
week if that or shower wreck one or the other
recreation recreation, so you get to go out in a
patio or something for thirty minutes or whatever three times
(15:40):
a week, three times a week, and you're allowed one
phone call after every after a month, you're all one
phone call and cold, slowely. Some men blocks, you know,
some men that it's a mattress on a cement. What
does it smell like? You'd be surprised that prisons are clean.
(16:03):
The first thing you do when you go in to show,
you and you get soap and you clean everything down.
You actually cleans up and you just try to disinfect
the whole style, you know, you clean yourself. Yeah, you're
on your knees and discrubbing and you ladder off soap
and you clean the the toilet and everything you're gonna use.
(16:25):
And it s gets cold sometimes, so you try to
find ways to hold down to clothes, you know, to
hold on to extra socks or like a laundry that
you just try to keep 'em even if you wash
'em on t you know, in the sink, cause you're
gonna need 'em. And I would write letters, and then
(16:49):
you get this. They give you a stupid little pencil
and you have to figure out a way to sharpening yourself,
cause they're not gonna be sharpening your pencil every time
it needs to be sharpened. Like, and I would write
letters and I would be asking everyone, can let me
get your pencil on exac can Yeah, I have it,
(17:12):
something to write with it. And I would read and
read and read or exercise, and that time goes by
so slow, I mean extremely so, especially like in the beginning,
you know, and then you start to kind of like
get used to that little routine. My loneliness will get
(17:33):
the best of me. I'm quick to talk to someone like, hey,
what are you doing with it? Just whatever? Play chess,
go through the wall. Yeah, you yell out your movie
and make a chess board and you set up you
literally will make a chessboarder out of pieces of paper
and you draw your little or write night on it
or rug or you know, and and you'll yell like
(17:58):
be one to be three, you know, and wait for
their move. And then when they make their move, you
make the move on the board for them, you know,
and your own board. They have their own board, and
you hear keys and the first thing you do is
go to the door to see what's going on, wait
(18:23):
for child, for that styropham plate that comes, you know,
and you're like to let me see what they done
this time. And we had the routine where Mondays was
like a chili mac for lunch, Tuesdays was chicken patty
(18:44):
day or something, Wednesday was burgers, Thursday was chicken, like
the best meal of the week was like Thursdays and
Friday was like fish. That's the routine. So did you
know what each day was? Is that how you kept
track of the day. Yeah, you kind of keep the
trails they you know, you make these homemade calendars and
(19:08):
if you're lucky and people in the kitchen, they'll give
you extra heavy plate, and what you have to do
you have to put the food to the side, and
so you're gonna eat a little bit of it and
save something later, cause you're gonna be hungry, and because
the portions are usually small, so when they give you
(19:30):
extra food, you gotta save it, you know, cause sometimes
like the dinner would be like a couple slices of bread,
some cheese or peanut butter and jelly. I never drank
milk like that, and in prison, I started drinking milk
because it was just like I needed food. You know,
you try to save as much food as you can.
I bet you lost a lot of weight. Yeah I do,
(19:54):
and it was like a hundred and forty pounds one
thirty five all muscle. Yeah, but yeah you do. I mean,
you work out, You try to keep your mind. You know,
your routine. You work out. If you have someone like
a good neighbor, like you work out together and then
(20:15):
we do Burby. But it's hard inside. Sometimes I just
couldn't hold the tears back as a measure thinking about
my kids, about seeing my wife leave the vista, and
just just wish I could be.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
There with her.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
You know, it's horrible to go through that. But for me,
with helped me was that I was comfortable with who
I was. And a lot of people see you and
(20:58):
they you know, they tend to like measure you up
a live, you know, and it was like I don't
care whatever that don't affect me. You know, I have
a wife and children who who depend on me, who
are there for me, who seem make me feel like
I'm worth more, Like they they see something to me
(21:20):
that makes them love me unconditioning. And I felt like
I had to live up to it, like I let
myself allow myself to be worthy of it, you know,
to receive it, you know, to receive their love and
appreciate it, take it in and just it was hard though,
(21:44):
you know, because and there you deal with so many
people who are broken, and they want to value you
as how many people you killed, how much money you have.
It's like stupid, like still of it. I thought about
(22:04):
my family and my children that every single second, all
my time away from them. So it could be a
heavy burden too, you know that we're stuck in the
inside and living on the outside. It's hard. And everybody
will tell you don't do that, but not everyone had
a Vivian on their life. Everybody it was hard.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
It was hard.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I mean I had really really tough things, you know,
and I think every man in prison does. And doors
closed at now and you sit there and you think
about all the stupid things you've done, how you got there,
if you're lucky. If you're lucky, you have those thoughts.
(22:53):
So I had this steam where when I was in
the unit where I was free, where I would on
check about my wife and that she would answer and
say hi, but not accept the call. I could just
hear or say like for one second, not even a
second maybe, and that brought me peace to hear said
(23:15):
we're good man, because you couldn't speak to that because
the minutes were limited. So in order to say some minutes,
I would do it something. I would do it ten
times a day and they would like get on my
ass about it, and I was like whatever it like,
I just needed to know that they were okay, and
just even that one one high, like if she just
(23:37):
said I love your bad I'm missing that would just
like to just feel some connection. I got my minutes
on the fourth of every month, and that day with
Twils was like happy minute day, like we could talk
(23:57):
and I wish they could tell you there was nothing
going on during the month, but there was always something
going on that made me like go to those minutes
faster and we were literally like write each other eighteen
page ladders during the weekend and see each other on
the weekend. And I don't think even then we were
we able to share with each other everything that was
(24:18):
really going.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
On inside the prison walls. Pete and Jay were isolated
(24:42):
and lonely. Outside the prison walls, their wives, valen Viev,
were facing the same thing. Every time the twins transferred
prisons the families had to move to. Valenviev were not
only separated from their husbands, but now also from each
other on opposite ends of the country. And even though
(25:03):
they were in the US, the cartel has people everywhere.
Al Chapo is not known for his forgiveness, so anyone
connected to the brothers had a huge target on their backs.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
When we first came back from Mexico, we came to
the United States, I knew what kind of life I
was going to have to live. I would never even
put my name on an email on account my real name.
I mean, there's just I was always hyper aware of
if I was going to do something. I always thought
in the back of my mind, like, Okay, can somebody
(25:38):
find me? Can somebody find myself and my children? So
any little step I made, like my bills or an email,
like little simple things. I always had that in the
back of my mind that you know, eventually somebody would
find me if I were to slip up. But it
(25:58):
wasn't hard for me. I moved around so many places,
and I lived in small towns and I kept to myself.
I mean through the years, I didn't, you know, acquire
not one friend. And if a mom at the school
was asking me too many questions or I seeing them
being a little too nosy, like, I would just back
(26:20):
off and I wouldn't allow my kids to have play
dates with them any longer because I felt uncomfortable. I
felt like if somebody was going to know anything about
myself or my kids, that would be in more danger
than we already were. Me, out of everyone, I was
the one, very very always careful, always careful, and he
(26:44):
never let anyone get close to me. When I moved
into like smaller towns, I made sure that my neighbors
wouldn't ask me questions, and if they did, I would
be like, oh, I'm just a single mom.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It was lonely.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
It was definitely lonely because I've always been around people.
I have a big family. I've always you know, I
had friends growing up and I live, you know, a
normal life. I felt like it was either me have
you know, lived a normal life that I wanted, or
(27:21):
protect my kids. That wasn't even an option. I was
going to do whatever I had to do to protect them.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
I do live a life that's very different from anybody
in this world. We have to make sure that we're
safe and we have to keep our children out of
harm's way, so there's a lot of things that were
accustomed to today. I use a prepaid phone because I'm
trying to elude private investigators from finding me and tracking
(27:54):
me down for the cartel. I feel like I've always
said that me and Jay are really strong and that
we can get through anything that we've probably been through
so much, and I feel like, you know, we're unbreakable.
I feel like we're we can withstand more than your
average probably couple good. But when it comes to like
(28:16):
your children, it's like you have this special place in
your heart for them. You never want to see them
go through anything. You just want to be protective and
you just want to shelter them from that, so it's
really hard for them. I just felt like our kids
are not built for this. Over the years, I've sheltered
(28:42):
them so much and put them in this bubble that
I just wanted to keep them insulated from this world.
They don't know, or they didn't know any of this before.
They didn't even know their father's real name because just
because I didn't want them to google him, or if
(29:04):
I knew there was this special coming out on television
about their dad, I would like take the cable out,
and like I had like something was going on with
the cable box because I didn't want them to see
their dad on television, and so like there was all
these like precautions that I made, and like they literally
thought that their dad was in prison for tax evasion
(29:24):
because I didn't want them to know. It was really
hard for them to see Jay like that. And I
feel like it was maybe in the beginning, when they
were still babies, it was a lot easier for them
because they were so young and they didn't know any better,
and they honestly thought that like that was kind of
their normalcy to be visiting their father every weekend in prison,
(29:50):
And it wasn't until they got older that they started
realizing that he's in jail, he's in prison. You know
he's not coming home.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The brothers also had to be careful with who they
interacted with in prison. You never knew who you might
bump into.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Here.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I am transfer to a new prison and I get
putt in this out. I was supposed to be alone,
and then they came like, oh, you're going to have
a Sally make room. He should be here any minute.
(30:36):
When he gets there, I looked at my Oh my god,
I know you.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
Here.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I am with chapter's biggest rival.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Byming l Chapo, The Twins Who brought Down a Drug Lord.
Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and
me Charlie Webster, produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant
producer and research support by Kasey Hurtz, Edit and sound
design by Nico Polella. Theme music and original score by
Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson
(31:24):
and Me Charlie Webster. Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a
Lionsgate sound and G unit audio production exclusively for iHeart Podcasts.
I do remember, like, imagine where we're gonna end up,
were like, well, life was gonna be I had no clue.
Sacrifice We're gonna have to make every day. It was
gonna take work, and every day it was gonna take
a thought process to make sure that I was going
to be a different person. Hey, it's fifty.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Cent and I'm Charlie Webster. This is a five and
old chapter The Twins who brought down a reward season two.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The Baby and the Bentley were crazy and caused some
real problems for the brothers, but it was the third
beat the Billboards they completely turned up what their lives
were about to look like in prison. The twins had
been together since they won people who even called them
just twin for twenty eight years. Every decision they made,
(01:12):
they made it together, and now they were both a
long for the first time in their lives, they didn't
have each other.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
To rely on.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
The billboards meant their special privilege of being housed together
in prison was taken away. Jay was blamed and pulled
from his cell in the middle of the night. He
was put on a plane to the notoriously inhumane mcc
New York. The conditions there are so bad that in
twenty twenty one it had to be shut down. Over
two years later it remains that way whilst the government
(01:43):
figures out what to do with it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So MCC New York was to us was the worst
place because it was a woodsick unit in the MCC
Metropolitan and Correctional Center, which is where they house Chapel
Epstein and and they house 'em in the s in
the segregated to shoot you know unit and on the
(02:11):
third floor is where they kept you know with it.
It's a special unit for cooperators, and it's the worst thing.
It was like a like really intense watch on you okay,
on your mail, on anything. Cause it's fourteen sixteen cells.
(02:34):
There's probably fourteen in me all the trouble makers, right,
the worst of the worst. That's your last spot, either
your it's your last spot before you get kicked out
the program or or if you're going there to go
to court to testify, you know, that's where you go.
And it's the worst place. They let you out to
(02:58):
to the rooftop me once a week for now. This
is the worst part. That the food is cooked by
the inmates in the building. They know that that units
for cooperators. So every time they send the food trays out,
they come with a little specialist price. I'm talking about
every time if it's gonna be a dead rat, little
(03:21):
chest who knows what they do to the photo. And
I actually never ate their food. That one time I
survived to have a peanut butter and noodles, and my
worst luck, I didn't have a phone. They had took
my privileges away. I didn't have my brother for me.
(03:45):
It was one of the most part of the hardest
ever I had gone through, since I had been in
prison and no communication, no visits, being in this place,
being without my brother, being like like just lost and
not knowing why.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Jay was struggling, not just because he was without Pete,
but in mcc New York, communication was limited so he
wasn't able to see his family. Val could tell how
badly Jay was struggling and did everything she could to
get Jay moved.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I ended up saying her eight months and I will
say thank you to my wife.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Is like when she found out I was there, she
knew about the place and we would write each other's
like she fought, you know, she went hiring attorney because
they were on budget until finally the head of the
people who are handling us happened.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
To do a routine visit to the unit. And they
come and they see you. They're ahead of people who
actually handle or witness protection. You could talk to him,
express your concern, just you know. And I said, hey,
like you, why am I here? Like you put me
here with the worst of the worst? Like you know
what you did? I'm like, what did I do?
Speaker 5 (05:06):
Like you?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
No, I don't know what you do. Like listen, it
doesn't even matter. One of the other guys try to
kick me off at the meeting. I'm like, listen. And
I waited for a long time for this. Tell me
what I did? You know if I did it? You know,
I'll be honest. But how am I supposed to know
what I did? And while I'm here? So he liked,
you want to tell me about your billboards? I was like, billboards, Hey,
(05:32):
can't you want tell me about the billboard you put
up on the side of your inside room for your wife?
I said, yeah, sure, you just got the wrong one.
He said, what you got the wrong one? And he
looks at him and he's like, what And you got
the wrong one? I know that it was a billboard
(05:54):
stud that was my brother. So I had a fight
for eight months. I mean, val in life fought every
day to get out that place. I was miserable, you know.
Valve would come see me sometimes for forty minutes at times,
(06:15):
and we had.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
Problems in the country and the kids, and the kids
were small.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I did have a low advantage that you could only
see out the window out the in front of the courthouse.
It's right across from the courthouse. And one time the
val brought the kids and my son he loved baseball.
Then I actually brought the basis in the tea ball
and she got all the kids and they had a
baseball game. But I looked at the window. You know,
(06:44):
he's funny. He would see catchers, you know how they
picked their mask off to see where the ball when
they have a high fly ball. But in his head
that every time he hit the ball or something, he
had knock his cap off and run. He's a baby.
He's two years old, you know, two and a half
years old. And I got to see that. I would
(07:05):
look at the window and every sometimes where I used
to sit on that window just see you or just
look outside I'm like, I don't do anything to just
be able to see val. And one of those times
I was looking at the window. It was like kind
of you know, sun was setting and I'm looking down
the street and I see like, okay, I see hips
(07:29):
and I'll never forget her. She's walking, she's putting her suitcase.
She just happened to stop by just to see it.
I'm looking at the window that kind of weekday and
she comes to the window and she's like ruin me kisses,
and it hurt me so much, like not to be
able to talk to her, not to be able to
(07:51):
see anything, and I felt closing, and like I felt
closing even though I was like there there are just
no commit unication that I decided to make science for
the next time she ever came. I could just show
her with science, you know. I made science like I
love you, be careful, and different signs. I had them
(08:11):
like we're paint a bunch of different science like where
are the kids? Tell the kids I love them, and
I would put them on the window. And it was hard.
It was a hard time that suffering and led me
to be in a place where I was able to
do the rest of my time comfortable.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
The upside of the mix up was that Jay was
able to pick any prison he wanted to go to.
After the horrors of mcc New York.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
They said where do you want to go? People will
come in from different places and I asked him, Hey,
how is this place? And they're like, they'll say did,
They'll say that, And then a couple of guys came
out They're gonna go test the fire. And I said,
where are you coming from? And they're like, this spot here.
I'm like, how is it? It's great. There's three day visits.
(09:11):
The fool's good, you know. I'm like, there's three day visits.
He's like, yeah, you should try to make it out
there or whatever. I'm like, I know where about to go.
We're so happy with a three day visits. And and
after that just kind of settled in and I do
the rest of my time there, and it helped. We
had treated visits also. We would have Saturday Sunday for
(09:31):
the kids. We have to We'll switch it for Mondays.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
It was night.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It was day night for us sure, and it was
it was a lot of relaxed to where I got
to play with the kids when they were smaller, like
they had a car proaction that I could wrestle with
them on the floor and just play with them. Sit
down and you know, I'm right next to the garden.
They appreciate it. They like to see you with your kids.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Where was that that?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I can't say? Okay, it was like, you know, it
was like one of those like you when you look
at we look at the positives of bad moments, and
for sure that became a positive. But still, you know,
it was the beginning of me not having my brother.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
As Jay mentioned, the twins aren't always allowed to say
where they were in prison. Some of the locations are
highly confidential. When Jay first was taken from his brother,
(10:33):
Pete was left with an empty bed next to him.
What was it like when you both got separated?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
How hard did you find that? It was super difficult
for us? You know, they felt like it was hard
for us to be together sometimes because we were like
clash a line, and then it was really hard, like
just in the rawness of our relationship where he's still
my brother, you know. And I don't want people to
get it like misunderstand. I think my brother and I
(10:59):
are always like being each other is protected and it
was super difficult to not be with them.
Speaker 7 (11:07):
You know, what was it like that first morning when
you realized that he'd been taken and that that was it.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
You weren't going to be together that day they take him.
It was like three four in the morning and they
locked myself back door and I look and I'm like,
they're probably taking him to the shoe and go back
to sleep, and I, you know, woke up around seven
thirty and the other constantly comes in throws me guardage
back and says, draw your brother's shit in there, like
(11:35):
and where my brother? So when I get up to
go calm, like they took my brother, the phones were
off the security and they shut the phones off. But
I'm like, damn, never seen him. Shut the poond up
and he was gone. And it's hard to think that
everything they had to go through. It was difficult me
just thinking they were there. Now, you know, I had
to get used to like not having like my poin brother.
(11:59):
We do everything together. We made it that far together.
There's so much lesson doing our case. And it was
hard because we were about to go to one of
the hardest situations we've gone through them in prison, and
we needed each other. It was very hard.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
Because up in Silva, you'd always have the opportunity to
be together and you'd always, you know what, for me,
made decisions together since you were born.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Like it wasn't just I don't know, it was like
since you were born. Yeah, that was hard because my
brother and I have always had that mentality. Then we'd
figure out a way to find a way. And I
think at first it was sad. Of course, it was
hurtful to think that my brother wasn't there when I
first realized that he wasn't there with me no more.
(12:52):
But in a weird way, I feel like we're gonna
find a way to get back together. It's not mentally
at the time, we're still a couple months into prison.
I was like, yeah, we're gonna take care of us,
you know. I remember the person in charge of the
(13:15):
of our units. I remember he had a visit and
he came to me and tells me, I just want
you to know something. You don't run this shit. I don't.
I was like, all right, okay, you're right, But you know,
(13:38):
to have them kind of like people over you in
that situation, they wanted to keep reminding you that they
had control over your life, and they would be inappropriate
about at times, you know, things they would say about
my personal issues and the things they heard over the
phone and stuff like that, and that kind of bothered me,
like that was like something I can't get used to,
you know, then you'll never get used to. But I
(14:03):
thinking that I was gonna be able to find a
way to be with my brother was always like freshen
my mind. And I could only hear from them through Viviana,
and there was like another burden for her thing to
put that on her to like, hey, in tapletaing care
of kids and everything you do, make sure you know
everything about my brother.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
When it was discovered that it was actually Pete who
puts up the billboards and not Jay, Pete was disciplined.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So I got a couple of disciplined writers for like
endangering the safety of the step and other inmates, you know,
for reaching out to the public or but you know,
all kinds of stuff. It took my phone, my visits.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
And then it was Pete's turn to be transferred. Putting
the billboards out there meant there was a risk that
his location had been compromised.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
It was just a stressful time, because like I ain't
to be in trust to the worst place that you
can be at. I mean it was just just a
miserable place. Everyone there was miserable. It's always cold. There
(15:18):
are all steel walls, and you have the thing they
steal toilet and you're allowed to wreck three times a
week if that or shower wreck one or the other
recreation recreation, so you get to go out in a
patio or something for thirty minutes or whatever three times
(15:40):
a week, three times a week, and you're allowed one
phone call after every after a month, you're all one
phone call and cold, slowely. Some men blocks, you know,
some men that it's a mattress on a cement. What
does it smell like? You'd be surprised that prisons are clean.
(16:03):
The first thing you do when you go in to show,
you and you get soap and you clean everything down.
You actually cleans up and you just try to disinfect
the whole style, you know, you clean yourself. Yeah, you're
on your knees and discrubbing and you ladder off soap
and you clean the the toilet and everything you're gonna use.
(16:25):
And it s gets cold sometimes, so you try to
find ways to hold down to clothes, you know, to
hold on to extra socks or like a laundry that
you just try to keep 'em even if you wash
'em on t you know, in the sink, cause you're
gonna need 'em. And I would write letters, and then
(16:49):
you get this. They give you a stupid little pencil
and you have to figure out a way to sharpening yourself,
cause they're not gonna be sharpening your pencil every time
it needs to be sharpened. Like, and I would write
letters and I would be asking everyone, can let me
get your pencil on exac can Yeah, I have it,
(17:12):
something to write with it. And I would read and
read and read or exercise, and that time goes by
so slow, I mean extremely so, especially like in the beginning,
you know, and then you start to kind of like
get used to that little routine. My loneliness will get
(17:33):
the best of me. I'm quick to talk to someone like, hey,
what are you doing with it? Just whatever? Play chess,
go through the wall. Yeah, you yell out your movie
and make a chess board and you set up you
literally will make a chessboarder out of pieces of paper
and you draw your little or write night on it
or rug or you know, and and you'll yell like
(17:58):
be one to be three, you know, and wait for
their move. And then when they make their move, you
make the move on the board for them, you know,
and your own board. They have their own board, and
you hear keys and the first thing you do is
go to the door to see what's going on, wait
(18:23):
for child, for that styropham plate that comes, you know,
and you're like to let me see what they done
this time. And we had the routine where Mondays was
like a chili mac for lunch, Tuesdays was chicken patty
(18:44):
day or something, Wednesday was burgers, Thursday was chicken, like
the best meal of the week was like Thursdays and
Friday was like fish. That's the routine. So did you
know what each day was? Is that how you kept
track of the day. Yeah, you kind of keep the
trails they you know, you make these homemade calendars and
(19:08):
if you're lucky and people in the kitchen, they'll give
you extra heavy plate, and what you have to do
you have to put the food to the side, and
so you're gonna eat a little bit of it and
save something later, cause you're gonna be hungry, and because
the portions are usually small, so when they give you
(19:30):
extra food, you gotta save it, you know, cause sometimes
like the dinner would be like a couple slices of bread,
some cheese or peanut butter and jelly. I never drank
milk like that, and in prison, I started drinking milk
because it was just like I needed food. You know,
you try to save as much food as you can.
I bet you lost a lot of weight. Yeah I do,
(19:54):
and it was like a hundred and forty pounds one
thirty five all muscle. Yeah, but yeah you do. I mean,
you work out, You try to keep your mind. You know,
your routine. You work out. If you have someone like
a good neighbor, like you work out together and then
(20:15):
we do Burby. But it's hard inside. Sometimes I just
couldn't hold the tears back as a measure thinking about
my kids, about seeing my wife leave the vista, and
just just wish I could be.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
There with her.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
You know, it's horrible to go through that. But for me,
with helped me was that I was comfortable with who
I was. And a lot of people see you and
(20:58):
they you know, they tend to like measure you up
a live, you know, and it was like I don't
care whatever that don't affect me. You know, I have
a wife and children who who depend on me, who
are there for me, who seem make me feel like
I'm worth more, Like they they see something to me
(21:20):
that makes them love me unconditioning. And I felt like
I had to live up to it, like I let
myself allow myself to be worthy of it, you know,
to receive it, you know, to receive their love and
appreciate it, take it in and just it was hard though,
(21:44):
you know, because and there you deal with so many
people who are broken, and they want to value you
as how many people you killed, how much money you have.
It's like stupid, like still of it. I thought about
(22:04):
my family and my children that every single second, all
my time away from them. So it could be a
heavy burden too, you know that we're stuck in the
inside and living on the outside. It's hard. And everybody
will tell you don't do that, but not everyone had
a Vivian on their life. Everybody it was hard.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
It was hard.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I mean I had really really tough things, you know,
and I think every man in prison does. And doors
closed at now and you sit there and you think
about all the stupid things you've done, how you got there,
if you're lucky. If you're lucky, you have those thoughts.
(22:53):
So I had this steam where when I was in
the unit where I was free, where I would on
check about my wife and that she would answer and
say hi, but not accept the call. I could just
hear or say like for one second, not even a
second maybe, and that brought me peace to hear said
(23:15):
we're good man, because you couldn't speak to that because
the minutes were limited. So in order to say some minutes,
I would do it something. I would do it ten
times a day and they would like get on my
ass about it, and I was like whatever it like,
I just needed to know that they were okay, and
just even that one one high, like if she just
(23:37):
said I love your bad I'm missing that would just
like to just feel some connection. I got my minutes
on the fourth of every month, and that day with
Twils was like happy minute day, like we could talk
(23:57):
and I wish they could tell you there was nothing
going on during the month, but there was always something
going on that made me like go to those minutes
faster and we were literally like write each other eighteen
page ladders during the weekend and see each other on
the weekend. And I don't think even then we were
we able to share with each other everything that was
(24:18):
really going.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
On inside the prison walls. Pete and Jay were isolated
(24:42):
and lonely. Outside the prison walls, their wives, valen Viev,
were facing the same thing. Every time the twins transferred
prisons the families had to move to. Valenviev were not
only separated from their husbands, but now also from each
other on opposite ends of the country. And even though
(25:03):
they were in the US, the cartel has people everywhere.
Al Chapo is not known for his forgiveness, so anyone
connected to the brothers had a huge target on their backs.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
When we first came back from Mexico, we came to
the United States, I knew what kind of life I
was going to have to live. I would never even
put my name on an email on account my real name.
I mean, there's just I was always hyper aware of
if I was going to do something. I always thought
in the back of my mind, like, Okay, can somebody
(25:38):
find me? Can somebody find myself and my children? So
any little step I made, like my bills or an email,
like little simple things. I always had that in the
back of my mind that you know, eventually somebody would
find me if I were to slip up. But it
(25:58):
wasn't hard for me. I moved around so many places,
and I lived in small towns and I kept to myself.
I mean through the years, I didn't, you know, acquire
not one friend. And if a mom at the school
was asking me too many questions or I seeing them
being a little too nosy, like, I would just back
(26:20):
off and I wouldn't allow my kids to have play
dates with them any longer because I felt uncomfortable. I
felt like if somebody was going to know anything about
myself or my kids, that would be in more danger
than we already were. Me, out of everyone, I was
the one, very very always careful, always careful, and he
(26:44):
never let anyone get close to me. When I moved
into like smaller towns, I made sure that my neighbors
wouldn't ask me questions, and if they did, I would
be like, oh, I'm just a single mom.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It was lonely.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
It was definitely lonely because I've always been around people.
I have a big family. I've always you know, I
had friends growing up and I live, you know, a
normal life. I felt like it was either me have
you know, lived a normal life that I wanted, or
(27:21):
protect my kids. That wasn't even an option. I was
going to do whatever I had to do to protect them.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
I do live a life that's very different from anybody
in this world. We have to make sure that we're
safe and we have to keep our children out of
harm's way, so there's a lot of things that were
accustomed to today. I use a prepaid phone because I'm
trying to elude private investigators from finding me and tracking
(27:54):
me down for the cartel. I feel like I've always
said that me and Jay are really strong and that
we can get through anything that we've probably been through
so much, and I feel like, you know, we're unbreakable.
I feel like we're we can withstand more than your
average probably couple good. But when it comes to like
(28:16):
your children, it's like you have this special place in
your heart for them. You never want to see them
go through anything. You just want to be protective and
you just want to shelter them from that, so it's
really hard for them. I just felt like our kids
are not built for this. Over the years, I've sheltered
(28:42):
them so much and put them in this bubble that
I just wanted to keep them insulated from this world.
They don't know, or they didn't know any of this before.
They didn't even know their father's real name because just
because I didn't want them to google him, or if
(29:04):
I knew there was this special coming out on television
about their dad, I would like take the cable out,
and like I had like something was going on with
the cable box because I didn't want them to see
their dad on television, and so like there was all
these like precautions that I made, and like they literally
thought that their dad was in prison for tax evasion
(29:24):
because I didn't want them to know. It was really
hard for them to see Jay like that. And I
feel like it was maybe in the beginning, when they
were still babies, it was a lot easier for them
because they were so young and they didn't know any better,
and they honestly thought that like that was kind of
their normalcy to be visiting their father every weekend in prison,
(29:50):
And it wasn't until they got older that they started
realizing that he's in jail, he's in prison. You know
he's not coming home.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
The brothers also had to be careful with who they
interacted with in prison. You never knew who you might
bump into.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Here.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I am transfer to a new prison and I get
putt in this out. I was supposed to be alone,
and then they came like, oh, you're going to have
a Sally make room. He should be here any minute.
(30:36):
When he gets there, I looked at my Oh my god,
I know you.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
Here.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I am with chapter's biggest rival.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Byming l Chapo, The Twins Who brought Down a Drug Lord.
Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and
me Charlie Webster, produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant
producer and research support by Kasey Hurtz, Edit and sound
design by Nico Polella. Theme music and original score by
Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson
(31:24):
and Me Charlie Webster. Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a
Lionsgate sound and G unit audio production exclusively for iHeart Podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Curtis ‘50 Cent’ Jackson
Charlie Webster
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com