October 25, 2023 • 38 mins
Jay and Pete adjust to their separate realities in prison. Jay ends up in a prison with better conditions, while the opposite happens for Pete. Jay puts on a spectacle for Val in the visiting room. Pete’s family visit gets canceled, and the prison is put on lockdown when El Chapo is arrested.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
We had problems that people just didn't understand us. We
didn't fit what they expected or what they assumed what
a real gangster or real whatever the cases in their
head should look like. And I always say I'm not
a gangster. I would say if a gangster could never
(00:23):
be a hustler, a cancer could never be a businessman,
because did they have that mentality and that would never work.
That's why there's just so many field hustlers or drug
dealers are businessmen in prison? You know, you try to
pick up two things that are never gonna work.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And I'm Charlie Webster. This is surviving Old Chapel. The
twins who brought down a troubled Season two now on
(01:13):
their own in prisons at opposite ends of the country.
After the Billboard incident, the Flora twins had to learn
to be independent of one another.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
What was it like being separated from Pete?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It was one of the difficult terms I think I
ever had to go through in prison. For a long time,
I just wasn't used to it. Like and I said
to be man, when am I gonna see my brother again?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Not I'm being involved in his life, letting go of the.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Fact that I wasn't going to have him anymore, and
just saying, okay, I have to just try to like
I'm gonna do this on my own. You know, that
was like a big step, I think, you know. And
it took me years for me to understand that I
didn't have that person next to me. And then you're
(02:10):
in prison, right, and I think everyone handles things differently,
has a different settuation.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
To me, this was a big deal. How I didn't
have much a brother, my person that I was you.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Know, with before I was born, before I understand anything,
and in.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Prison supposed to be hard, I get it, but.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It just it did change in a lot of ways
where I felt the depression.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Probably I felt.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Like I could feel myself just like where something was missing.
Their entire lives, Pet and Jay had one another to
rely and depend on, but now if they were going
to survive in prison, they had to learn how to
be more like each other. I had to learn to
like be on my own and average here for myself
(03:02):
in different ways for all the different things that we
were going through and in prison. You know, in prison,
now I'm by myself, and you get put in a
bunch of different situations where you know, I just started
becoming a little bit more confident, I guess, and then
over time it didn't make me a little bit stronger.
(03:23):
I started to realize how we had kind of handicapped
each other, and I started to like I had to
like kind of fill in the part that was missing
I guess on my own and the part that he
kind of like brought on. It took learning. It took,
(03:47):
you know, just learning and really thinking about what that was.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And for instance, like my.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Brother's negativity, I couldn't always be so positive. Now I
had to like kind of adjust and you know, be
more like cam, Like what would peep think about any situation?
But I started to realize different things as well.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Was that being with my brother for so long and
us having.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Going through the same hardships or life lessons or life
made us understand a lot of things in the same way.
Even though we had different views, we were able to
communicate in a way where we just look at each
other and be like we understood each other, Like that
was fine.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And I started to with that. People be lost sometimes
talking to me like what did you say?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So you've even got to like relearn how to communicate
in a way. As we've said before in this podcast,
and as I'm sure you've noticed, the brothers sometimes talk
as well. Even now after all this time apart, they
still finish each other sent I know exactly what the
other is thinking. Many twins feel like they have some
(05:05):
kind of telepathic ability or sixth sense between themselves and
their sibling, So you can imagine what it must have
been like for Pete and j Jay had to learn
how to communicate on his own pretty quickly, because if
he didn't, it was going to cause trouble.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Do you think that you go to prison, it's going
to be different, right, You're gonna get away from that
life and you're going to be around you know, it's
supposed to like make a difference. And here I am
transferred to a new prison and I get put in
this out. I was supposed to be alone, and then
(05:41):
they came like, oh, you're going to have a sally
make room. He should be here any minute, I guess.
I look, Oh my god, I know, isn't he doesn't
you know me? I'm like, yeah, I had a young brother.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
The Ariano Cartel, also known as the Tijuana Cartel, was
at the time one of the Cineloa Cartel's biggest rivals.
They attempted to assassinate El Chapo and Mayo multiple times.
The Ariano brothers founded and led the Ariano Cartel, and
Jay's new cell mate was the youngest of the brothers,
(06:24):
Francisco Ariano.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And he looked at me. He was like, then you
do know me, and you're not supposed to each other.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We're not supposed to each other, but we're you know,
and here we are being Sally's and I used to
you know, we started talking a little bit like wow,
look at us.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
We're hearing this like we're in the South together. And any.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
If you knew anything about me before when we were
in Mexico, you would have had no problem just.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Killing me.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And here we are, and we always woul laugh about
those t kind of things like and it was funny
to him because he never met someone like who spoke English,
who like and then knew a lot of the same
people he knew. And here I am with Chapel's biggest rival.
(07:22):
And the head was out already on ocur to being
my Sully and turning into this friend of mine.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And it was training for.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Him because he didn't understand the culture right, the politics
of prison. So there was a lot of times where
I had to like kind of just use my influence
to be like, okay, stop hold on, he doesn't know,
he doesn't know any better just because it's prison, and
and uh yeah it was you know, we will save
(07:57):
stories and was it we just got really c I
think that people would be taken back, like hold on,
did he just say that ran brother?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yes, brother who was swore they were like torn in
me for you know, carte or top of my.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
And I wasn't like to me, I wasn't invested in
those type of like politics, but me being part of
the cartev for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Didn't know who you were. Did end? I didn't bring
it up. I didn't bring it up at first.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
This was early on, so as I started to kind
of talk to him, he would kind of look at
me and like maybe two three years into me being
with him a lot, and I think I would share
stories like like stories about Mexico, but never really like
(08:55):
like you don't want to like seem like you're bragging.
And one time he told me, hey, Twin, you know
they say that you used to like do this and
do that for top of my own like, but he
I used to tell him that I knew them and
I knew certain people, and he was just like, you know,
(09:16):
for the longest time, I just never believed you, and
it bothered me that I thought you were full of shit.
You know, he's real, honest, he said. And I don't
know if I still believe it, but I'm starting to
kind of understand. He was more curious about the way
I was raised and where I come from to how
(09:36):
I made it there. Yeah, and I guess that's everyone's
my curiosity. The good thing is that, you know, he's
a family man. You know, I was feminized who were
kind of there for each other, and two hard times
I was there when his brother was murdered, and I
was there for him as well. So it was like
(09:56):
one of those things where he would always be like,
I never met someone like you like that you could
just be honest and just open. He would be like,
I don't think it's a good idea for you have
pictures of your family, especially not of your wife, because
then you have different people come in and they're like
(10:17):
looking at your family.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
I used to be like, they're gonna.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Look anyway, Like it's okay, just bringing him up to
like culture, and I always trying to show him things
that he picked up because of me. He picked up
starting to play basketball, so we used to love playing basketball.
He's a great athlete for sure. Soccer player. He actually
made me play soccer and I.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Never like played soccer.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I remember even when I started playing chess. When I
got there, he gave me his motivation because I just
had started playing just and I'll get aggravated because you know,
I wasn't good. And I remember he told me, he
said that I know if you put your mind to this,
he said, no one will be to you.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And he said that he kind of sparked something and
I was like, wow, he's.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Right, And I think for five years I dedicated myself
to like chess and like learning it and just taking
earl in and understanding my mistakes and I would just
you know, I dedicate a lot of time to it.
(11:33):
Sammy the Ball was one of the first ones. I
sat there and he was like, you know this piece
does this.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
You know, yep, you heard that right.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Sammy the Bull, the same Sammy the Bull whose cooperation
against mafia boss John Gotti was the very thing that
inspired Jay to convince his brother to turn their lives
around and cooperate in the first place.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So he'd sit youkw did show you reach? Yeah, like
Richie and he left the game with Chest too.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
It may seem far fetched, but both Jay and Pete
ended up spending time with Sammy the Ball in prison.
Pete would later spend years as sam of the balls
cell mate. Some of the Ball even tried to extort
Pete at one point.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So I'm with Cartel figures, a lot of big, major ones.
I'm with Italian bosses. Sami the Ball, you know, one
of the persons that kind of planted the seed in
my head of you know what was going to kind
of take the you know, my life right and my
decision in a way, and.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Then you ended up in prison with him. Yeah, really ironic.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yes, he was a good friend of mine. He was
able to teach me now to learn, you know, I
learned how to play board games in prison. I grew
up differently. I never played board games. I never knew
how to play a card game. I used to use
them chess analogies, and I didn't even know what it
(13:04):
meant to be honest, life is like a game of chess,
and so I started playing, said, oh shit, life is
like a game of chess.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Reveral cancer business.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Playing chess is very common in prison. It helps build
critical thinking skills as well as strategy and patience. It's
so popular that there are international chess tournaments for prisoners.
Both Pete and Jay became passionate chess players. They even
showed off their chess skills to me while we were
all in the safe house. Chess also helps to keep prisoners'
(13:52):
minds occupied, but there's more to do in prison than
just play chess. Being a part meant the twins were
able to find their own voices. Pete took every class
available and even led his own Bible study class after
he found God.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You know, I participated in every educational program at the
prison offic like every program you think about. Participated and
I had like I have a certificates, like you know,
a thousand certificates and classes I took and things I did.
And not only did I do that, I help, you know,
teach classes. I took courses to help tutor and you know,
(14:29):
and do you know e s l like English classes
and and all kinds of stuff I didn't. I run
the Bible study for years.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I did all that. Can you tell us submit the
courses that he took h.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Fat you know, CDL thing and real estate classes, psychology classes,
mental health preparation and self help perchane leather class, parenting,
I mean, carpentry, whatever they offered.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You know, I was participating.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, he didn't feel like a waste of time, you know,
you know, I like to learn new things.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Jay also started his own class, but it wasn't a
Bible study. He created a self help class with his
own curriculum.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I decided to start teaching them like a self help
class and strengthening your thoughts and your mind and the
way you stink, your mindset and how you perceived and
how you look at things. In a extra permission to
teach a class, you had to go through the through
the whole, like fill out paperwork.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I had to do a curriculum. I head to all that, and.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I was surprised when I actually would askally, like list,
I'm gonna do a class like next thing, you know,
I'm like having sixty people.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And there was another class he had a handle or
maybe I should say foot in getting starts it.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
So there's a guy in prison, older man.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
He was always moving and he's bothering me and always
like I see him step like.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Like he might be like hey and just come in
dancing and look really like like like nice. And I
was like, you think of the Joe said, hey, Joe,
would you teach me how to dance? So so? And
he's like, sure, I'll teach you. He thought about it first,
(16:36):
like I'm like, but I'm stiff, you want to? I said,
what do you want her? And he said, I'll teacher.
I'm a teacher. So he like and he thinks I'm
playing like he thinks like, yeah, let me know. I'm like, no, okay.
And I wouldn't tell anyone because I knew I was
(16:59):
gonna hear. So we go.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And we had MP three players and we were like
they would make these wires that you could hook up
to like arrange your TV and you know, to play
the sound then. So I had to kind of make
arrangements so that everybody else feel like if there was
a speaker going and it was a workout time, so
I could kind of be like, hey, can I let
(17:22):
me play this music?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
You know, like could you could you front on your headphones?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Like I had to extra favors in order to happen,
and sure enough he started teaching.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
We had that. So at first I was kind of like,
you know, it was a little bit. I was more
nervous about being able to do it. And of course
we're in prison.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
There's a bunch of dudes like so for was a
girl and you know, and at first it was like constant, constant,
and at first like you puttering on the guard. See
you guys feeling this.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
We have cameras, and then the guards would come in
and be like, are you guys serious? There he go,
guying by the hip and move your hip, whatever the case.
And I'm always said, I'm always de sured myself. And
next thing, you know, the jokes, the jokes, they start
to giving up, just like they always know.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
But next thing you know, they're putting up chairs lucky
and they're like, well, let me try.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
But it became a dance fan.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
The only thing that some guys even even you know,
some guys got it fast.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Let me tell it, took me sixty seven months to
learn song.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Next thing, you go so that I'll show off blade
and there's other guys and like I'll be hey, hey,
hold on, that's me and thank my teacher, the nicest
one of the nicest, oldest men from Philly, and he
really really nice, really nice guy, and he was patient
with me and be like and he begs flim and
(18:56):
whatever the case is. I always make fun of Him'll
be like, well, well, how do you you know in
the beginning, how do you touch her?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
How do you ever? And he's like, you got a
firm she had a big butt. So I'll be like
like this, how you like day? I'm not dry to
be like, you know, whatever the case. So we were.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
It was a fun time, but it was six months
and I had to do a lot of these actually
put that together because we're in the visiting room, we're
in prison.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I had to get the right guard that knew me.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And you know, when they know that you're there to
do your time and like not to cause trouble, and
you help like they respect that they're not going to
give you a hard time. So you know, me taking
my infantry to the visiting room was like, it's kind
of bad, Like you can't do that.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And he put the picture up.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And you had to walk into a visiting room and
there's a picture of a woman. It's not like it's
just her in a wedding dresses valeries type of wedding dress,
you know.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And you're lucky you didn't say breach of security. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
So he.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And we planned it out and I put on my three.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I already had a plane.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
I walked in on my kiss and it was our anniversary,
and he had somebody to do this big painting and
they put it up on the wall and made my
in my wedding picture, my wedding photo.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
There's a television in the visiting.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Room, so they allowed him to plug up his MP
three player. So he put on the Mark Anthony's song
and it was Sausa and Jay didn't know how to
dance alsa at all. When he put out my hand,
my kids were just giggling. They were laughing. My daughter
and my son they were laughing. They were cracking off.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And he took me to dance. And the way he
was leading me and the way he was dancing.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Like I felt like I couldn't even keep up with him,
like he was that good, like he was.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Like a year.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And then at first she was like, what are you doing?
And she was getting read and then she just we.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Just danced some dance. I just followed because I'm up.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Because he was like, we played the mark Anthony, can
you remember what songs caed?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It was.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
In bring my Confident.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I was like, okay, okay, can tell me don't ever
take your eyes off of her and.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
He and it was like you stare.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Laughing, my kid laughing, and they were they were so happy.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
They were like wow after I played song, and that's
when it's yours.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I didn't get in trouble one day for going overboard.
It was for Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I decided to make val They used to do cruseee
like Teddy Bears, and I put like a Teddy Bear
with a red heart with Jayanne. I made the biggest
picture of our and I actually had them like airbush
(22:25):
a background for Valentine Day, not just for me, but
for everyone.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And I closed up the busy room with.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Or got me flowers and basis on every table for everyone.
And I'm thinking Valdiste's Day, it's control and yeah, they
thought it was cute, they thought it was nice. They
let me enjoy it, they let me like cover and
then after that and then I got it for that.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Yeah, for sure, I'm not going to go the time,
who how I did it? You know, like at that time,
But the cons like, oh what then you think you want?
And how did you do that? How did you manage
to pull it off? I'm like, just happened? All They're
all right, you know what, Ha's just happened.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Your room'll be shirking down, and I hope you don't
have anything you have in there this contraband.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
You're gonna answer that. I went to my room.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
There was like two CEOs in my room just tearing
it up. And one of them was a nice seal
that I knew that I didn't have.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
To worry about. But one of them wasn't. And they
gave me like five different signs like different.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Contraband expecisively fact they want to put me to shoot,
And thank god I.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Had good prison attorneys and we beat this. We beat
the stargesh.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Jay wasn't the only romantic one. Pete sent flowers every
Wednesday for the entire time he was in prison, and
he learned yet another skill.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
He played the guitar.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
He taught himself how to play the guitar one song
and one song, and he played it, and he played
he played the guitar and sang me the song on
the phone. And then and Grains of Rice he wrote
down all the lyrics of the song.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And a grain of rice.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
He wrote every single lyric, every word is the song
and a grain of ice. How many grains of rice
is that?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It took months to do that, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
It was the Brian Brian Adams.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So the theme song to Brave Part Brave Heart and
thank You j.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
In the movies, you often get the perception that prison
is survival of the fittest, hardened criminals, all fighting to
be the top dog. In many ways, it mirrors the
power dynamic of the cartel. But there's another side that
we don't get to see or hear about as much,
one that's full of Salza classes, Bible study, and even
extravagant gestures like writing song lyrics on grains of rice.
(25:40):
For Pete, it was his love for viv that kept
him going, especially as the struggle of prison life really
started to take its toll.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, I was trying to should I got into
some more trouble and you know the apology where you're going.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
They put me in a place where they're like, okay
you and they.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Targeted me you know, the constant like personal and just
to show you who's in charge.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And it was like it was just overwhelming. At times.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
They're literally like shake down my cell every other day,
you know, and they'll count my pictures so you can't
one in twenty five, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
And the visits were horrible.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
It went from me being able to sit next to
my family to them saying we're gonna sit across from
each other like this, don't get up your chair, don't
look and wear don't do nothing, you know, And I
was like, I can't touch a kid, Like no, you're
gonna sit in from the churre.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
You're canna talk and that's it.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And they would cancel my visit quick like, oh, we
have a bunch of people are expected to visit this week,
so you cannot go out because you're the one that
gets the most visits. And then the people want to
show up and I'm like, can have my wife, No
one's coming. No.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
The twins were under intense protection because there was such
a valuable asset to the government, which meant the security
surrounding visits was tight. They had to vet all visitors
when they arrived, case of any association to them. Because
of this, family, visits were often ended abruptly or just
stopped all together.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Then you go and they'll be like, well, there's another
visitor coming there. You gotta get up.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I gotta get off my chair, go to the bag
and look out, you know, a two way window, like
a two way mirror, and look at the new visitors
coming in and okay, then clearing them. Okay, you know,
like I don't have no parts with them, like they
I try to kill me.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I'm not gonna have to check who they were in
the case they recognized you.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, so then I have to Now I'm good. But
they'll take their time, and sometimes it was like constant.
It was like, you know, I'm just trying to get
to my visit, and there was just so much for me.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
At this point, the Flora's twins have been in prison
for six years and still didn't know how much longer
they would have to stay there.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I wasn't sentenced it, so it was six years in
prisonage six years. Why did it take so long for
you actually to get sent so I guess, I mean
it's part of the you agreed to postpone your sentence.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So the cases kind of finished.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Their first six years were spent in limbo because they
couldn't be sentenced until El Chapo was arrested. On the
twenty second of February twenty fourteen, Mexican authorities conducted a
series of raids on El Chapo's safe houses, which were
protected by reinforced steel. Initially, he was able to escape
through a tunnel underneath the hydraulic bathtub. He was tracked
(28:33):
to a hotel in Mazatlan, a beachside town on the
Pacific coast of Mexico, where he was hiding with his family,
a bodyguard, his chef, and his babysitter. Three minutes after
the raid on the hotel began, El Chapo was in custody.
What did it feel like when he knew Chapo was
(28:54):
first arrested.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I couldn't relid myself. H it was so real. I
was shocked, just like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I remember being shocked and then kind of like like
first time, I was like, well, this wasn't for nothing,
you know, like this wasn't for anything, Like this is
like this is There's gonna be more to this. Instantly,
like there's gonna be more to this, Like it's not
(29:27):
just me just you know here in prison, which was
kind of scary. At the same time, I was in.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
The visiting room room. Man, I was on my.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I was on my visit and they came in and
like terminated my visit like kind of randomly, like.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
You know, really, and they they aksed me, what did
you say? They they are?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
They approached, like three seals approached and they opened the
door and they and it was me and a man
and I was like, we're probably the only ones in
the small visiting room at the time.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
They approached me.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
They say, you know, I'm sorry, but your you know,
visit has ended and we need you to come with us.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And I was like, what they do. We're sitting across
on the table like.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I as soon as I came to like the door
that she was like and they just caught chappels.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You said that to you? The correction officer, the seal
comes and he like, they just caught chapel. Man, did
they say do.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You like that?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Man?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah? Like they really kind of nonchalant, yeah, like and
you know, he was like wait. I was like, man,
they keep the fuck out there here, like for real.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
The whole prison was going on lockdown, like they didn't
understand why, but they locked us down like that was
escorted straight to my son.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Were locked down for the.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Next two or three days, and I guess they felt
like that the prisoners were like, you know, like getting rowdy,
you know, especially in the in the main units of
this maximum security prison, you know, so in order to
keep it, you know, calm, they just prevent the measures.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
They just locked everyone down.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
And I remember like being able to watch the news
on TV and just like being shocked, like and they
never thought they'd.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Catch 'em alive, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You know, it was one of those moments where it
was on every channel, especially like the Spanish news.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
They interrupted all the broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What key it Jazman.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
The maximusa.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Mexican no deficient beginian who say that you're tuning the
DS metros for Locas.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Plan, you know, and they, you know, they're showing different
parts of the story, and it's weird to see like
your face come up in those news, you know, Breeze,
and when they talk about the case and the magnitude
of his you know, drug dealings and.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
And everything he had you know done in the history,
in his whole history, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
It was just one of those moments you just feels surreal,
like I just didn't believe it, you know, and I questioned,
you know, what was next for us?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, they moved the sentence me and my brother.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
In that year after he was captured, they started to
talking about us getting a sentence, like towards the end
of the year.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I think it was in their point of view that
they didn't think that.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Chapel was the government was ever going to extra day,
So I guess they felt like, why, you know, keep
making his way. So my sentencing day was set for
January twenty seventh, twenty fifteen, that they would be, you know,
seeing the judge and he would be decided.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
My faith and me and my brother were separated. It
wasn't be the first time I seen him.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
El Chapo was captured in February twenty fourteen, but there
was no guarantee that the Mexican government would ever extradite him,
so the twin centencing was arranged for the twenty seventh
of January twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
So when did you next see each other after that moment?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
We've seen each other in suw thousand and fifteen January
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
We got sent the twins. It was kind of like
five years later, remember.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Thinking that we're gonna go get sentenced, and you know,
it's we're nervous for our situation. We're like, it's a
really stressful time for us. We've been to so much
and really we're like, this is really going to.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Determine our future.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And our wives been waiting so long, the kids, you know,
we're thinking that, you know, guy are willing, you know,
we want to go on.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I'm trying. We want a long wait, you know, and
playing and simple.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
The twins were in separate parts of the country and
they both had to get to Chicago to be sentenced.
The government sent a private jet to escort them. Jay
was the first one to be picked up, then Pete.
They were both shackled for the journey.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
The next day, the Marsh's coming and when they moved
you when they move someone with my brother and I
they come like with you know, fifteen of their special force,
you know, marshals or whoever their contractors are.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Like, and they come to get you, and I remember
it was very cold, it was snowing. They end driving
me like.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Literally ten minutes away to the little airport. I'm parking
a hangar and I'm sitting there.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
And I can hear them talking. You know, I'm shackled,
you know, been in the over the last three days
and not feeling good. You know, I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I remember sitting there. I can hear them saying, Warlock
one to Warlock two.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
We're approaching the sentencing will be their first public court
appearance since they were taken into custody. Pete and Jay
hadn't seen each other for five years.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
They're waiting for the plane to land, and he kept saying,
more like one to where I to. My brother's on
the plane. Almost plasitive share she's on the plane.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
I can't ask them, so almost the plane, you know,
I could see the plane getting rid of the land.
We're sitting like in the hangar. I could see the
plane approaching the private plane. I know, you know, it's
taking forever, like the land to spin around. But I remember,
(36:50):
like they pull up and I'm sitting in the in
the in the truck stuff, and I see the mill
pull the doors open, and when they tell me come on,
I rush out. Can I remember, I'm just looking down
trying to peek over at the corner, and I just
see it as a great squats and it shows you know.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
And brother was staying there.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Surviving l Chapo. The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord.
Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and
me Charlie Webster. Produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant
producer and research support by Kasey Hurtz, Edit and sound
designed by Nico Kalella. Theme music and original score by
Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson
(37:49):
and Me Charlie Webster. Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a
Lionsgate Sound and G Unit audio production exclusively for iHeart
Podcasts
Speaker 3 (38:03):
The Albums and d
We had problems that people just didn't understand us. We
didn't fit what they expected or what they assumed what
a real gangster or real whatever the cases in their
head should look like. And I always say I'm not
a gangster. I would say if a gangster could never
(00:23):
be a hustler, a cancer could never be a businessman,
because did they have that mentality and that would never work.
That's why there's just so many field hustlers or drug
dealers are businessmen in prison? You know, you try to
pick up two things that are never gonna work.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And I'm Charlie Webster. This is surviving Old Chapel. The
twins who brought down a troubled Season two now on
(01:13):
their own in prisons at opposite ends of the country.
After the Billboard incident, the Flora twins had to learn
to be independent of one another.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
What was it like being separated from Pete?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It was one of the difficult terms I think I
ever had to go through in prison. For a long time,
I just wasn't used to it. Like and I said
to be man, when am I gonna see my brother again?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Not I'm being involved in his life, letting go of the.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Fact that I wasn't going to have him anymore, and
just saying, okay, I have to just try to like
I'm gonna do this on my own. You know, that
was like a big step, I think, you know. And
it took me years for me to understand that I
didn't have that person next to me. And then you're
(02:10):
in prison, right, and I think everyone handles things differently,
has a different settuation.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
To me, this was a big deal. How I didn't
have much a brother, my person that I was you.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Know, with before I was born, before I understand anything,
and in.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Prison supposed to be hard, I get it, but.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It just it did change in a lot of ways
where I felt the depression.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Probably I felt.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Like I could feel myself just like where something was missing.
Their entire lives, Pet and Jay had one another to
rely and depend on, but now if they were going
to survive in prison, they had to learn how to
be more like each other. I had to learn to
like be on my own and average here for myself
(03:02):
in different ways for all the different things that we
were going through and in prison. You know, in prison,
now I'm by myself, and you get put in a
bunch of different situations where you know, I just started
becoming a little bit more confident, I guess, and then
over time it didn't make me a little bit stronger.
(03:23):
I started to realize how we had kind of handicapped
each other, and I started to like I had to
like kind of fill in the part that was missing
I guess on my own and the part that he
kind of like brought on. It took learning. It took,
(03:47):
you know, just learning and really thinking about what that was.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And for instance, like my.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Brother's negativity, I couldn't always be so positive. Now I
had to like kind of adjust and you know, be
more like cam, Like what would peep think about any situation?
But I started to realize different things as well.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Was that being with my brother for so long and
us having.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Going through the same hardships or life lessons or life
made us understand a lot of things in the same way.
Even though we had different views, we were able to
communicate in a way where we just look at each
other and be like we understood each other, Like that
was fine.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And I started to with that. People be lost sometimes
talking to me like what did you say?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So you've even got to like relearn how to communicate
in a way. As we've said before in this podcast,
and as I'm sure you've noticed, the brothers sometimes talk
as well. Even now after all this time apart, they
still finish each other sent I know exactly what the
other is thinking. Many twins feel like they have some
(05:05):
kind of telepathic ability or sixth sense between themselves and
their sibling, So you can imagine what it must have
been like for Pete and j Jay had to learn
how to communicate on his own pretty quickly, because if
he didn't, it was going to cause trouble.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Do you think that you go to prison, it's going
to be different, right, You're gonna get away from that
life and you're going to be around you know, it's
supposed to like make a difference. And here I am
transferred to a new prison and I get put in
this out. I was supposed to be alone, and then
(05:41):
they came like, oh, you're going to have a sally
make room. He should be here any minute, I guess.
I look, Oh my god, I know, isn't he doesn't
you know me? I'm like, yeah, I had a young brother.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
The Ariano Cartel, also known as the Tijuana Cartel, was
at the time one of the Cineloa Cartel's biggest rivals.
They attempted to assassinate El Chapo and Mayo multiple times.
The Ariano brothers founded and led the Ariano Cartel, and
Jay's new cell mate was the youngest of the brothers,
(06:24):
Francisco Ariano.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And he looked at me. He was like, then you
do know me, and you're not supposed to each other.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
We're not supposed to each other, but we're you know,
and here we are being Sally's and I used to
you know, we started talking a little bit like wow,
look at us.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
We're hearing this like we're in the South together. And any.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
If you knew anything about me before when we were
in Mexico, you would have had no problem just.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Killing me.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And here we are, and we always woul laugh about
those t kind of things like and it was funny
to him because he never met someone like who spoke English,
who like and then knew a lot of the same
people he knew. And here I am with Chapel's biggest rival.
(07:22):
And the head was out already on ocur to being
my Sully and turning into this friend of mine.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And it was training for.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Him because he didn't understand the culture right, the politics
of prison. So there was a lot of times where
I had to like kind of just use my influence
to be like, okay, stop hold on, he doesn't know,
he doesn't know any better just because it's prison, and
and uh yeah it was you know, we will save
(07:57):
stories and was it we just got really c I
think that people would be taken back, like hold on,
did he just say that ran brother?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yes, brother who was swore they were like torn in
me for you know, carte or top of my.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
And I wasn't like to me, I wasn't invested in
those type of like politics, but me being part of
the cartev for sure.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Didn't know who you were. Did end? I didn't bring
it up. I didn't bring it up at first.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
This was early on, so as I started to kind
of talk to him, he would kind of look at
me and like maybe two three years into me being
with him a lot, and I think I would share
stories like like stories about Mexico, but never really like
(08:55):
like you don't want to like seem like you're bragging.
And one time he told me, hey, Twin, you know
they say that you used to like do this and
do that for top of my own like, but he
I used to tell him that I knew them and
I knew certain people, and he was just like, you know,
(09:16):
for the longest time, I just never believed you, and
it bothered me that I thought you were full of shit.
You know, he's real, honest, he said. And I don't
know if I still believe it, but I'm starting to
kind of understand. He was more curious about the way
I was raised and where I come from to how
(09:36):
I made it there. Yeah, and I guess that's everyone's
my curiosity. The good thing is that, you know, he's
a family man. You know, I was feminized who were
kind of there for each other, and two hard times
I was there when his brother was murdered, and I
was there for him as well. So it was like
(09:56):
one of those things where he would always be like,
I never met someone like you like that you could
just be honest and just open. He would be like,
I don't think it's a good idea for you have
pictures of your family, especially not of your wife, because
then you have different people come in and they're like
(10:17):
looking at your family.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
I used to be like, they're gonna.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Look anyway, Like it's okay, just bringing him up to
like culture, and I always trying to show him things
that he picked up because of me. He picked up
starting to play basketball, so we used to love playing basketball.
He's a great athlete for sure. Soccer player. He actually
made me play soccer and I.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Never like played soccer.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I remember even when I started playing chess. When I
got there, he gave me his motivation because I just
had started playing just and I'll get aggravated because you know,
I wasn't good. And I remember he told me, he
said that I know if you put your mind to this,
he said, no one will be to you.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
And he said that he kind of sparked something and
I was like, wow, he's.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Right, And I think for five years I dedicated myself
to like chess and like learning it and just taking
earl in and understanding my mistakes and I would just
you know, I dedicate a lot of time to it.
(11:33):
Sammy the Ball was one of the first ones. I
sat there and he was like, you know this piece
does this.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
You know, yep, you heard that right.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Sammy the Bull, the same Sammy the Bull whose cooperation
against mafia boss John Gotti was the very thing that
inspired Jay to convince his brother to turn their lives
around and cooperate in the first place.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
So he'd sit youkw did show you reach? Yeah, like
Richie and he left the game with Chest too.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
It may seem far fetched, but both Jay and Pete
ended up spending time with Sammy the Ball in prison.
Pete would later spend years as sam of the balls
cell mate. Some of the Ball even tried to extort
Pete at one point.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So I'm with Cartel figures, a lot of big, major ones.
I'm with Italian bosses. Sami the Ball, you know, one
of the persons that kind of planted the seed in
my head of you know what was going to kind
of take the you know, my life right and my
decision in a way, and.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Then you ended up in prison with him. Yeah, really ironic.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yes, he was a good friend of mine. He was
able to teach me now to learn, you know, I
learned how to play board games in prison. I grew
up differently. I never played board games. I never knew
how to play a card game. I used to use
them chess analogies, and I didn't even know what it
(13:04):
meant to be honest, life is like a game of chess,
and so I started playing, said, oh shit, life is
like a game of chess.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Reveral cancer business.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Playing chess is very common in prison. It helps build
critical thinking skills as well as strategy and patience. It's
so popular that there are international chess tournaments for prisoners.
Both Pete and Jay became passionate chess players. They even
showed off their chess skills to me while we were
all in the safe house. Chess also helps to keep prisoners'
(13:52):
minds occupied, but there's more to do in prison than
just play chess. Being a part meant the twins were
able to find their own voices. Pete took every class
available and even led his own Bible study class after
he found God.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
You know, I participated in every educational program at the
prison offic like every program you think about. Participated and
I had like I have a certificates, like you know,
a thousand certificates and classes I took and things I did.
And not only did I do that, I help, you know,
teach classes. I took courses to help tutor and you know,
(14:29):
and do you know e s l like English classes
and and all kinds of stuff I didn't. I run
the Bible study for years.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I did all that. Can you tell us submit the
courses that he took h.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Fat you know, CDL thing and real estate classes, psychology classes,
mental health preparation and self help perchane leather class, parenting,
I mean, carpentry, whatever they offered.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
You know, I was participating.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah, he didn't feel like a waste of time, you know,
you know, I like to learn new things.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Jay also started his own class, but it wasn't a
Bible study. He created a self help class with his
own curriculum.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I decided to start teaching them like a self help
class and strengthening your thoughts and your mind and the
way you stink, your mindset and how you perceived and
how you look at things. In a extra permission to
teach a class, you had to go through the through
the whole, like fill out paperwork.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I had to do a curriculum. I head to all that, and.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I was surprised when I actually would askally, like list,
I'm gonna do a class like next thing, you know,
I'm like having sixty people.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And there was another class he had a handle or
maybe I should say foot in getting starts it.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
So there's a guy in prison, older man.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
He was always moving and he's bothering me and always
like I see him step like.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Like he might be like hey and just come in
dancing and look really like like like nice. And I
was like, you think of the Joe said, hey, Joe,
would you teach me how to dance? So so? And
he's like, sure, I'll teach you. He thought about it first,
(16:36):
like I'm like, but I'm stiff, you want to? I said,
what do you want her? And he said, I'll teacher.
I'm a teacher. So he like and he thinks I'm
playing like he thinks like, yeah, let me know. I'm like, no, okay.
And I wouldn't tell anyone because I knew I was
(16:59):
gonna hear. So we go.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And we had MP three players and we were like
they would make these wires that you could hook up
to like arrange your TV and you know, to play
the sound then. So I had to kind of make
arrangements so that everybody else feel like if there was
a speaker going and it was a workout time, so
I could kind of be like, hey, can I let
(17:22):
me play this music?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
You know, like could you could you front on your headphones?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Like I had to extra favors in order to happen,
and sure enough he started teaching.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
We had that. So at first I was kind of like,
you know, it was a little bit. I was more
nervous about being able to do it. And of course
we're in prison.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
There's a bunch of dudes like so for was a
girl and you know, and at first it was like constant, constant,
and at first like you puttering on the guard. See
you guys feeling this.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
We have cameras, and then the guards would come in
and be like, are you guys serious? There he go,
guying by the hip and move your hip, whatever the case.
And I'm always said, I'm always de sured myself. And
next thing, you know, the jokes, the jokes, they start
to giving up, just like they always know.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
But next thing you know, they're putting up chairs lucky
and they're like, well, let me try.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
But it became a dance fan.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
The only thing that some guys even even you know,
some guys got it fast.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Let me tell it, took me sixty seven months to
learn song.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Next thing, you go so that I'll show off blade
and there's other guys and like I'll be hey, hey,
hold on, that's me and thank my teacher, the nicest
one of the nicest, oldest men from Philly, and he
really really nice, really nice guy, and he was patient
with me and be like and he begs flim and
(18:56):
whatever the case is. I always make fun of Him'll
be like, well, well, how do you you know in
the beginning, how do you touch her?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
How do you ever? And he's like, you got a
firm she had a big butt. So I'll be like
like this, how you like day? I'm not dry to
be like, you know, whatever the case. So we were.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
It was a fun time, but it was six months
and I had to do a lot of these actually
put that together because we're in the visiting room, we're
in prison.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I had to get the right guard that knew me.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And you know, when they know that you're there to
do your time and like not to cause trouble, and
you help like they respect that they're not going to
give you a hard time. So you know, me taking
my infantry to the visiting room was like, it's kind
of bad, Like you can't do that.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And he put the picture up.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And you had to walk into a visiting room and
there's a picture of a woman. It's not like it's
just her in a wedding dresses valeries type of wedding dress,
you know.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And you're lucky you didn't say breach of security. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
So he.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And we planned it out and I put on my three.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I already had a plane.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
I walked in on my kiss and it was our anniversary,
and he had somebody to do this big painting and
they put it up on the wall and made my
in my wedding picture, my wedding photo.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
There's a television in the visiting.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Room, so they allowed him to plug up his MP
three player. So he put on the Mark Anthony's song
and it was Sausa and Jay didn't know how to
dance alsa at all. When he put out my hand,
my kids were just giggling. They were laughing. My daughter
and my son they were laughing. They were cracking off.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And he took me to dance. And the way he
was leading me and the way he was dancing.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Like I felt like I couldn't even keep up with him,
like he was that good, like he was.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Like a year.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And then at first she was like, what are you doing?
And she was getting read and then she just we.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Just danced some dance. I just followed because I'm up.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Because he was like, we played the mark Anthony, can
you remember what songs caed?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It was.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
In bring my Confident.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I was like, okay, okay, can tell me don't ever
take your eyes off of her and.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
He and it was like you stare.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Laughing, my kid laughing, and they were they were so happy.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
They were like wow after I played song, and that's
when it's yours.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I didn't get in trouble one day for going overboard.
It was for Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I decided to make val They used to do cruseee
like Teddy Bears, and I put like a Teddy Bear
with a red heart with Jayanne. I made the biggest
picture of our and I actually had them like airbush
(22:25):
a background for Valentine Day, not just for me, but
for everyone.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
And I closed up the busy room with.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Or got me flowers and basis on every table for everyone.
And I'm thinking Valdiste's Day, it's control and yeah, they
thought it was cute, they thought it was nice. They
let me enjoy it, they let me like cover and
then after that and then I got it for that.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Yeah, for sure, I'm not going to go the time,
who how I did it? You know, like at that time,
But the cons like, oh what then you think you want?
And how did you do that? How did you manage
to pull it off? I'm like, just happened? All They're
all right, you know what, Ha's just happened.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Your room'll be shirking down, and I hope you don't
have anything you have in there this contraband.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
You're gonna answer that. I went to my room.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
There was like two CEOs in my room just tearing
it up. And one of them was a nice seal
that I knew that I didn't have.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
To worry about. But one of them wasn't. And they
gave me like five different signs like different.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Contraband expecisively fact they want to put me to shoot,
And thank god I.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Had good prison attorneys and we beat this. We beat
the stargesh.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Jay wasn't the only romantic one. Pete sent flowers every
Wednesday for the entire time he was in prison, and
he learned yet another skill.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
He played the guitar.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
He taught himself how to play the guitar one song
and one song, and he played it, and he played
he played the guitar and sang me the song on
the phone. And then and Grains of Rice he wrote
down all the lyrics of the song.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And a grain of rice.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
He wrote every single lyric, every word is the song
and a grain of ice. How many grains of rice
is that?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It took months to do that, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
It was the Brian Brian Adams.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So the theme song to Brave Part Brave Heart and
thank You j.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
In the movies, you often get the perception that prison
is survival of the fittest, hardened criminals, all fighting to
be the top dog. In many ways, it mirrors the
power dynamic of the cartel. But there's another side that
we don't get to see or hear about as much,
one that's full of Salza classes, Bible study, and even
extravagant gestures like writing song lyrics on grains of rice.
(25:40):
For Pete, it was his love for viv that kept
him going, especially as the struggle of prison life really
started to take its toll.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, I was trying to should I got into
some more trouble and you know the apology where you're going.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
They put me in a place where they're like, okay
you and they.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Targeted me you know, the constant like personal and just
to show you who's in charge.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And it was like it was just overwhelming. At times.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
They're literally like shake down my cell every other day,
you know, and they'll count my pictures so you can't
one in twenty five, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
And the visits were horrible.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
It went from me being able to sit next to
my family to them saying we're gonna sit across from
each other like this, don't get up your chair, don't
look and wear don't do nothing, you know, And I
was like, I can't touch a kid, Like no, you're
gonna sit in from the churre.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
You're canna talk and that's it.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And they would cancel my visit quick like, oh, we
have a bunch of people are expected to visit this week,
so you cannot go out because you're the one that
gets the most visits. And then the people want to
show up and I'm like, can have my wife, No
one's coming. No.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
The twins were under intense protection because there was such
a valuable asset to the government, which meant the security
surrounding visits was tight. They had to vet all visitors
when they arrived, case of any association to them. Because
of this, family, visits were often ended abruptly or just
stopped all together.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Then you go and they'll be like, well, there's another
visitor coming there. You gotta get up.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I gotta get off my chair, go to the bag
and look out, you know, a two way window, like
a two way mirror, and look at the new visitors
coming in and okay, then clearing them. Okay, you know,
like I don't have no parts with them, like they
I try to kill me.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I'm not gonna have to check who they were in
the case they recognized you.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, so then I have to Now I'm good. But
they'll take their time, and sometimes it was like constant.
It was like, you know, I'm just trying to get
to my visit, and there was just so much for me.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
At this point, the Flora's twins have been in prison
for six years and still didn't know how much longer
they would have to stay there.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I wasn't sentenced it, so it was six years in
prisonage six years. Why did it take so long for
you actually to get sent so I guess, I mean
it's part of the you agreed to postpone your sentence.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So the cases kind of finished.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Their first six years were spent in limbo because they
couldn't be sentenced until El Chapo was arrested. On the
twenty second of February twenty fourteen, Mexican authorities conducted a
series of raids on El Chapo's safe houses, which were
protected by reinforced steel. Initially, he was able to escape
through a tunnel underneath the hydraulic bathtub. He was tracked
(28:33):
to a hotel in Mazatlan, a beachside town on the
Pacific coast of Mexico, where he was hiding with his family,
a bodyguard, his chef, and his babysitter. Three minutes after
the raid on the hotel began, El Chapo was in custody.
What did it feel like when he knew Chapo was
(28:54):
first arrested.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
I couldn't relid myself. H it was so real. I
was shocked, just like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I remember being shocked and then kind of like like
first time, I was like, well, this wasn't for nothing,
you know, like this wasn't for anything, Like this is
like this is There's gonna be more to this. Instantly,
like there's gonna be more to this, Like it's not
(29:27):
just me just you know here in prison, which was
kind of scary. At the same time, I was in.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
The visiting room room. Man, I was on my.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I was on my visit and they came in and
like terminated my visit like kind of randomly, like.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
You know, really, and they they aksed me, what did
you say? They they are?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
They approached, like three seals approached and they opened the
door and they and it was me and a man
and I was like, we're probably the only ones in
the small visiting room at the time.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
They approached me.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
They say, you know, I'm sorry, but your you know,
visit has ended and we need you to come with us.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
And I was like, what they do. We're sitting across
on the table like.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I as soon as I came to like the door
that she was like and they just caught chappels.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
You said that to you? The correction officer, the seal
comes and he like, they just caught chapel. Man, did
they say do.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You like that?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Man?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah? Like they really kind of nonchalant, yeah, like and
you know, he was like wait. I was like, man,
they keep the fuck out there here, like for real.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
The whole prison was going on lockdown, like they didn't
understand why, but they locked us down like that was
escorted straight to my son.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Were locked down for the.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Next two or three days, and I guess they felt
like that the prisoners were like, you know, like getting rowdy,
you know, especially in the in the main units of
this maximum security prison, you know, so in order to
keep it, you know, calm, they just prevent the measures.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
They just locked everyone down.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
And I remember like being able to watch the news
on TV and just like being shocked, like and they
never thought they'd.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Catch 'em alive, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You know, it was one of those moments where it
was on every channel, especially like the Spanish news.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
They interrupted all the broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What key it Jazman.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
The maximusa.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Mexican no deficient beginian who say that you're tuning the
DS metros for Locas.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Plan, you know, and they, you know, they're showing different
parts of the story, and it's weird to see like
your face come up in those news, you know, Breeze,
and when they talk about the case and the magnitude
of his you know, drug dealings and.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
And everything he had you know done in the history,
in his whole history, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
It was just one of those moments you just feels surreal,
like I just didn't believe it, you know, and I questioned,
you know, what was next for us?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, they moved the sentence me and my brother.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
In that year after he was captured, they started to
talking about us getting a sentence, like towards the end
of the year.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I think it was in their point of view that
they didn't think that.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Chapel was the government was ever going to extra day,
So I guess they felt like, why, you know, keep
making his way. So my sentencing day was set for
January twenty seventh, twenty fifteen, that they would be, you know,
seeing the judge and he would be decided.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
My faith and me and my brother were separated. It
wasn't be the first time I seen him.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
El Chapo was captured in February twenty fourteen, but there
was no guarantee that the Mexican government would ever extradite him,
so the twin centencing was arranged for the twenty seventh
of January twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
So when did you next see each other after that moment?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
We've seen each other in suw thousand and fifteen January
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
We got sent the twins. It was kind of like
five years later, remember.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Thinking that we're gonna go get sentenced, and you know,
it's we're nervous for our situation. We're like, it's a
really stressful time for us. We've been to so much
and really we're like, this is really going to.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Determine our future.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And our wives been waiting so long, the kids, you know,
we're thinking that, you know, guy are willing, you know,
we want to go on.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I'm trying. We want a long wait, you know, and
playing and simple.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
The twins were in separate parts of the country and
they both had to get to Chicago to be sentenced.
The government sent a private jet to escort them. Jay
was the first one to be picked up, then Pete.
They were both shackled for the journey.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
The next day, the Marsh's coming and when they moved
you when they move someone with my brother and I
they come like with you know, fifteen of their special force,
you know, marshals or whoever their contractors are.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Like, and they come to get you, and I remember
it was very cold, it was snowing. They end driving
me like.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Literally ten minutes away to the little airport. I'm parking
a hangar and I'm sitting there.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
And I can hear them talking. You know, I'm shackled,
you know, been in the over the last three days
and not feeling good. You know, I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I remember sitting there. I can hear them saying, Warlock
one to Warlock two.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
We're approaching the sentencing will be their first public court
appearance since they were taken into custody. Pete and Jay
hadn't seen each other for five years.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
They're waiting for the plane to land, and he kept saying,
more like one to where I to. My brother's on
the plane. Almost plasitive share she's on the plane.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
I can't ask them, so almost the plane, you know,
I could see the plane getting rid of the land.
We're sitting like in the hangar. I could see the
plane approaching the private plane. I know, you know, it's
taking forever, like the land to spin around. But I remember,
(36:50):
like they pull up and I'm sitting in the in
the in the truck stuff, and I see the mill
pull the doors open, and when they tell me come on,
I rush out. Can I remember, I'm just looking down
trying to peek over at the corner, and I just
see it as a great squats and it shows you know.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
And brother was staying there.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Surviving l Chapo. The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord.
Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and
me Charlie Webster. Produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant
producer and research support by Kasey Hurtz, Edit and sound
designed by Nico Kalella. Theme music and original score by
Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson
(37:49):
and Me Charlie Webster. Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a
Lionsgate Sound and G Unit audio production exclusively for iHeart
Podcasts
Speaker 3 (38:03):
The Albums and d
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