Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M no brother, risk of pulling man, I tend to
go to prison. I've got it's fit to st Jackson
(00:45):
and I'm Charlie Webster and this is surviving o chocol
that's once you brought down the drug walk. The feeder
ages to say to move us from the office into
these bulletproof trucks. I get a call. Let's music one
(01:07):
of the top lieutenants. He's like, you know, I need
to talk to you. It can be important. They got
eight or hundred men ready to come get join your brother.
But we're gonna need a decision for doing your brother
because there's a chance that you might not make it
out of life. I'm going to ask you a question
(01:31):
and I just want you to tell me yes or no.
Our lives are filled with thousands of choices that we
have to make split second decisions that change the directions
of our lives. But sometimes you don't want to choose.
Peter and Jay were looking at their lives being taken
away no matter what, like in prison or a gunshot. Today.
(01:55):
In that moment, through the crackle of the phone line,
speaking to the cartel's top lieutenant, Busico j decided that
being taken to prison by the U. S. Marshal's is
a face scarier to death. Instead, they risked the potential
blood bath of a cartel battle. So I'm gonna ask
you a question. Do you a green light for us
(02:17):
to go get you? Yes? What's it? Go? Said? I
think you're making the right decision. I want you to
(02:37):
know something. You see those federal agents they're no different
than you and me. They're ready to die. They're not
gonna go out alone when we come. I just know
they're gonna try to kill you first. So if you
(03:02):
could get one of their guns or something high, run,
do whatever you can do it. That was really hard
for him to take. I'm sitting right next to them.
They have gone with him. He just reminded me, like,
(03:23):
this is America. They will tell you. And I said,
I understand, you know. I'm being really like, just easy
with my words, not saying too much. And then he said,
I want you to know something. You're my friend, he
says a man like I respect you and your brother,
(03:46):
I admire you. I love you, man, I came to
love you. If anything happens, I just want you to
know that you have everyone's your respect and don't worry
about your family. They're gonna be okay. Dad made me
get rid of emotion. He just listened to me be emotional.
(04:07):
I literally sat him crave and my brother Peter just
kind of just tap me. He didn't know what was
going on, so I said, it's a musical. Listen. You know,
I have a couple of debts that I want to pay.
He said, look at you. You're in a life and
destitutional worried about someone else, worried about yourself right now.
(04:32):
I just don't want not to happen to my family.
Don't worry. I'll give you my word that nothing that
happened to your family. We'll do whatever we have to do.
His words meant a lot to me at that time.
I was taking that the bosses were saying that they
admire and respected me. That was a big deal to me.
(05:00):
M and we said our goodbyes. I hung up the phone.
That was gonna be the last card get and I
just whispered to my brothers, they're gonna come get us.
There's a chance that these doing thing's gonna be happy.
He understood. I remember him just like, look at me.
(05:23):
It was just like, damn, I know what he remember
like this is what our life has become, this is
how our life hands. I'm just thinking of your life
as a whole. And I started kind of like, what
is my life? This is gonna be my life? That
(05:44):
I saw a bunch of drugs and I died in
a shootout. Oh wow, he was a great drug dealer.
He was a man of his word. And my kids
for our father, you know, my wife or her husband. Yeah,
and still that at that time, I was like, I'm
(06:05):
as possible, this is what we chose. And everyone well
at that time, I think people in that life, we
may decide, oh, it's for the money, and you just
started digging yourself into this ditch deeper and deeper, and
it's for the money, for the money, for the money.
By that time, I don't think me my beerly even
(06:25):
talked about profits. Yes, it was different for us. It
was yeah, I could buy anything I wanted, but everything
I wanted I couldn't buy with money will fulfilled me.
I think was I you hadn't make a family. And
(06:47):
I think maturing seeing what was like all those other
moments where you were like Facebook, life and death, I
think you started realizing, Wow, that money wasn't doing nothing
for me, them house to them cars. At that time,
we're what, we're twenty five years old, believe it or not.
(07:12):
I used to think I was old. You know, I
had friends passed away whenever, seventeen eighteen. No one ever
lasted that long. Either you go to Jarler than to die.
(07:35):
We drove wrong for a little while. They made a
stop at a parking lot. Some of the agents got
off and they met up with other agents other people,
and I could see them kind of like arguing, maybe,
you know, hands throwing up in the air and stuff.
(07:56):
There's probably sixteen total. There's like four or five i'll
be goes suburbans. And they jumping back in the car.
And when they jumped back in the car, I knew
something wasn't right because they jumped in the car. They
kind of said something. I don't know what they said,
and I just heard all the clicks with their grounds
(08:17):
in my heart probably kept the beat. And I'm sitting
down and one of the agent has he has his
air fatigues putting up around the chamber, but he has
his handgun under his leg and it's cocked. He has
it under his leg right here on my left side,
and I'm like, wow, we end up driving. We leave there.
(08:43):
We followed the other veh because there of the agents
or whoever the men were that they met with, but
they were like kind of well dressed, and we followed
up and we started driving two roads. I knew to
me we're heading back to the airport. I see that
there's vehicles part like, there's vehicles stopped. I see that
(09:08):
there's two young guys in uh like utility vests and
they have a case and they're standing in the middle
street and he sees he sees them. They're holding their
gun and he calls them and I come here. They're
(09:29):
waving their hands and he tells them, like turn and
they easily turned in and I could feel their attention.
I could just be there. And they said, we said
to night. I'm able to see. To my right there's
(09:50):
like eight are men everyone holding a case Rocky lnswer
and they ease the trucks something to the street and
one of the agent says, don't make a move. They
surround all the vehicles and I'm like, like frightened, fear.
(10:16):
I can't even explain, you just stopped. He just said,
don't move, and we stop and they're just like sitting still.
All the vehicles and all their are men like come.
They start trying to poke in, and they're like telling
them like just you know, calm, just calm, all young kids.
(10:41):
They have to be most of the one in on.
They're probably some of them could barely carry the gun.
And I just started looking around. I looked and on
they're just like restaurant canopy. I see that there's two
guys standing there and there's a three for like cicargo
standing in front of him. I'm on the driver's side.
(11:05):
He looks like a kid. Karen a k turns back.
He puts in his back and he tells the guy something.
I could see him moving him. He has a paper
in his hand. He went up to the truck and
he says like this, he's not like poincided like here.
I guess they was asking him we were in that truck.
(11:28):
He opens the door. The faradies don't want He said,
don't move. We're gonna do this the right way. And
he tells him you guys in Spanish and he's cursing,
like one false move, We're all going to hell. Guys,
(11:48):
just sit there. The guy comes and he looks it
looks at mean, he's holding the paper I can't see
and when he turns it is our wanted picture. M h.
And he goes like this, so he thumbs up. He
called like, let's go to you and Pete. So I
(12:14):
I have the phone in hand. Peter jumps off and
I'm gonna start walking away, and I said hold on
one second. And I come back to the door. He's
like hold on, like what are you doing? And I'm like,
hold on. The mandate was in charge, He's in no
(12:35):
frent seat. I said, I'm not gonna need your phone
and and I said I'm gonna keep my word. I'm
gonna make sure I pay you something. Yeah, And he
was like yes, sir, And I reached over and I
shook his hand. I shook their head and shook all
(12:58):
five guys that were there, shook their hands. Why did
you do that to me? I was taking responsibility for
putting myself in this situation. I put their life. Ever
they were at home and they get the call like
we have these tutures from the US and they coming
next to you know, now their life at risk because
(13:20):
of doing new job. And it was my way of
representing who I was don't worry. I'm gonna take care
of your guys. I shook their hands out of respect
to them. It wasn't me trying to be something that wasn't.
It was me just being myself, the business man. I
(13:43):
was the man that I was like the person I
was right, still being nice in the situation that I
don't having respect for them in a way, and I
tapped on them. I have seen they closed the door.
The guy stood there. My brother was in front of me.
(14:03):
We walked up to the stoop right. The two men
were staying and they have man bags, are man presses
for car one of lam heather a hanging on his shoulder,
you know, like they're the ones in charge when they
reaches out. He was a lieutenant for that organisation. And
(14:30):
then the other guy was Mentor never Ceeo Sguardo Saventes,
known as Almno or just Mencho, was a high ranking
member of the Millennial Cartel. Millennial was a part of
the Sinelo Federation and they fought side by side against
the federation's main rivals, los Zetas in the Cartel War.
(14:54):
Mencho's boss a Millennial was a Lobo Valencia. When a
Lobo was captured by the Mexican authorities. He was extradited
to the US to serve twenty five years in a
federal prison. Millennial fractured and Mencho started the Helisco New
Generation cartel known as c J and G. Many thought
(15:16):
Menho had handed Our Lobo to the federalies so he
could lead his own cartel. Whatever the reason, it worked.
C J and G is now considered the most dangerous
criminal organization in Mexico, and Mencho himself is one of
the most wanted men in the world, with a ten
(15:36):
million dollar bounty on his head. And if you've ever
visited or are in Los Angeles, you might have even
seen Mencho's face on a few d A billboards around
the place. There's even one near Dodgers Stadium. Hey, mental
pleasures to find Mitra. Okay, they're good. Yeah that Hey
(15:58):
you don't you have a couple people when need to
talk to you the handles like Twerey forms. One of
them was done the boss at the time. Her name
was Lowell Valencia. He was the head of the Millennial
Crata was part of the Federation. Just a smiler group
got on the phone kind of quick, thank you, I
(16:22):
talked to the Center Sambada and the other form the Center.
Zambarda is Maya Zambarda's eldest son. He was one of
the most senior members of the cartel and answered directly
to the bosses Chapo Mayo and Oltro Beltran. Vicente handled
shipments across South America. He co ordinated corruption with a
(16:42):
budget of one million dollars per month, which he used
to pay bribes, and he also manipulated people for his father.
Vicente was eventually arrested in two thousand and nine and
he pled guilty to using private planes, submarines, and speedboats
to traffic over billion dollars worth of cocaine and heroin.
(17:03):
They didn't have nice things to say. Put it that way.
What did I say? First of course was are you okay?
And it's like, what the fuck are you doing that?
And it's so weird because to be sent that, he's uh,
he was like younger than his father, so he has
like that cool I can't slang so every other world
(17:25):
like you've done mofuck like and I said, come on, man,
I had a lot of day. Let's work this out later. Yeah,
And he's like, listen, you have a bunch of people
roughed up right here, like you you need to come
and and take care of this soon. I'm like, let
me get home and we'll get to that. It's weird
(17:48):
because my relationship with him wasn't what people expect. It
was a friendly relationship no matter what. It was a
friendly relationship, and they treated be kind of like family.
Was like it was their family, kind of like they're
going to talk to it in a nice way, like
it's still in their way, but they're still like family,
(18:10):
can ye? Mentors like I have orders our dab is
that make sure we get your back on safe. So
at this point you're still not safe. So he said,
so the use my should that coming? You see these
two guys they bring up, they have a case, they're
too dark, one of them chubby in the twenties guys,
(18:33):
and said these guys are the guys were going to
give for them. They're going to go with them. The
US Marshals were only minutes away, and the federalies had
to give them something, so they quickly got two random
guys to pretend to be j and Pete and put
them in a car to be delivered to the U. S. Government.
The federalies were embarrassed, but giving up the wrong people
(18:54):
was better than admitting they had to let the real
fugitives go. And so they were in the cause that
you've just been in the bullet proof cars with the
federalies to drive to the U. S. Marshals to kind
of like say, oh, we had the wrong guys. It's
the sage, right, Yeah, that's coming. It's common practice. Mentor
(19:18):
he was like, do they look like you guys? Said, hell, no,
these are ugly motherfucker's Like, you know, I had to
make a joke out of it, and then, like I know,
I felt bad. I was like, hold on, are you
guys okay? He's like, man, I guess what they gave
us all a bunch of laqueors so we could get drunk,
so they could look like they were party. They give
(19:40):
us some coke. It's a good day, mind roots, ten
eleven in the morning. But they're about to be sent
into the Lions Down. No. I guess they knew. They're
really get to like these are twins? Are gonna be
like your your fucking mind, like these are too dark Mexican. Yeah,
they're not twins. Nice set. We're gonna take care of
(20:05):
the dory. There was one happening. They're drunk and high.
They went and dumped in the cars. H I didn't
(20:31):
even think twins did put me in another bullet for
car with them, it felt a little bit better. And
and I guess there's like one of the lieutenants I
went with. One of the mentioned lieutenant was a driver
and him an older man. They asked me, where are
you staying at It's a thirty five minute forty minute drive.
(20:57):
It's a six seven card caravan. Both Cicarios and me,
I know there's a military checkpoint going into that park.
I'm like worried. I said, is there another way? He said, well,
what do you mean we're Dan said, you know, just
(21:18):
a military checkpoint. I don't worry about that. Don't worry
about that. And sure enough we're coming. They waved them.
They have their guns in their hands, I mean rifles,
like literally they waved. We rode by past them. I
was shocked because like that, like the military, that doesn't
(21:42):
really happen. I don't think. It's a beautiful day here.
I am like having the shiftiest day, and it looks
so beautiful. They all doubt into the house and they
all started getting off with their guns. Valin Viev were
(22:08):
anxiously waiting back at the house after the federalities would
let them go free. In the negotiations back at the
police station, they had no idea if they'd ever see
j and Pete again. The back and forth that Valerie
and I were going through on our own, no one's
giving us any kind of any news of what's going
(22:31):
on with them. I've seen all the trucks and the
guys and then they were armed, and it was like,
this is you know, it's weird because in one way
it was like paradise and the other way it was like, hell,
we're in the most beautiful probably peaches of Mexico. There
(22:52):
we are like living through the worst one of the
worst moments in our lives. I think that that's like, really,
I would say them depending on me of what our
lives were before that, that every happy moment, every beautiful
moment in our lives, every memorable moment our lives, was
overshadowed by a bad moment. You get used to it
(23:17):
and then you just wait and then you're like, Okay,
well we'll get over this, and you know it'll pass tomorrow.
You know. That's that time that I was telling you
Charlie that you know we live on these high moments
because that's how I could live, was the high moments
that we were going through and the low low moments,
and these the turmoil that we would always go through too.
(23:39):
It's like, we'll pass through it, We'll get through it,
and then you become like you get um M, I
could get rid of the Kurt Tel and our story
via fairy tale. I come in and Bob was like,
(24:02):
she was upstairs kiss getting her stuff. I was surprised,
why if she was still even there. We walked in
and she was. They were a shot because you see
all these dudes coming in with guns, and I just
saw me started crying and we all cried. Then I
introduced value to mental. He was sitting there, Yeah, just
(24:24):
radio in his hand. He's kind of sitting like really
cocky though, on the table, like with his legs opening.
He has to raido here and he's playing with the
switch with his gun in his hand. He's like, yeah,
I don't want We're gonna leave. You know, we have
a federal police coming to West Quarters, back to Galahara.
Did that change you after that? Oh? For sure. It
(24:49):
made me see what I could be facing, kind of
like it was my reality for that time, and now
I'm getting a glimpse of what could happen. And that
wasn't a good feeling. That was not something that I liked.
What happened to the US Martials and the two guys
that were put in your replacement or later, and I
(25:11):
did find that they didn't make it. Did you ever
give that guy his money? I did? It kind of
looked like I did, and we end up giving him
like two point five million dollars. Everyone he had anything
to do with it, got it, chunk. It was two
(25:32):
point five million a lot of money to you at
that point. There's money that we considered to be the
cost of doing business. So that's his overhead. The company
can't function without the CEOs are micro managing like everything.
(25:52):
So you take it as lost. It was what it was.
I mean, you prepare for those things. We were at
the top, right and I like to see the upper
ns of the drug card toss and I was sitting
at the table with him. That wasn't just another person.
(26:15):
And I would say that at that time, I was
proud that's what I did, and when we just had
to change our life. It was all those moms. Things
are getting taken for me, things that I'm not willing
to give. I'm willing to lose money, I'm not willing
to give up what I sacrificed so much for. It
was that in all these years, all these things were
(26:37):
changing me. Not just that I was going through hardships,
that was maturing. I was under turning to understand like
the destruction and everything that was doing to me to
a family, and and understanding like my position and how
I got there, and trying to understand that what we
(26:58):
were doing wasn't the right thing to do. Like and
we could sit there all the time and say, oh, yeah,
we're I don't do something like I'm proud of I
don't hurt anyone, I don't kill anyone. I'm but that
didn't matter. It did make me feel a little bit guilty,
you know, Like I did feel at times like I
was no different because I was. Actually I felt like
(27:21):
I was participating, like now I'm there with them. And
I used to think, well before I wasn't it. I
remember one day think I was because I was still
doing this in Chicago, and I think that goes back
to how America perceives the drug trade. I was who
I was because of the United States, not because of Mexico.
(27:42):
Some ways, somehow, I guess we all have a part
in what's feeling these the violence and how the business works.
And I guess that's what I'm here, explaining how the
business works, how it trickles down a lot of its politics.
It's not just the is this anymore? And I had
(28:02):
to see that. I had to live that fraid to
affect me that way, you know, every time I had
to go see them, or being those situations where I
see people tied up, or I even be you know,
around a bunch of armed men making sure that oh
you're safe to get from puny to go and b
I used to this sing for me, I know, just
(28:24):
saying in a movie, this is not making me feel
any better at all. I remember having a conversation with
a friend of ours when I Throttle made the truth
with the set that he said, my brother just got
killed last week. They tortured him and killed them. How
(28:46):
do you feel, how do you feel about that? He
just like, well, I hurt that I don't have my brother,
just I don't have to say, I just have to
fall in line. The ongoing war between Cineloa and Losetas
has killed more than double the amount of civilians than
died in the entire Middle Eastern conflict since two thousand
(29:09):
and seven. The war has been infamously brutal. Beheadings, hangings
and indiscriminate murder were a hallmark. Everyone was a target,
including children. There were no limits to the evil. People
were boiled, killed with acid, cooked in ovens, and even
(29:29):
fed alive to crocodiles. But it was the fracture within
the Sineloa cartel that started to cause problems for j
and Pete. There adopted cartel family was starting to fall apart.
Rumors were swirling that Beltran was teaming up with the
enemy Los SETAs, betraying his long term friend and founding partner.
(29:51):
At the same time, Chapeau gave Beltran's brother, Alfredo, up
to the Mexican authorities. Chapo saw Alfredo as a ability
and as a bonus, he was able to negotiate a
deal for the release of his son from prison. The
Chapo Beltram breakup mc connage was about to follow. For
everyone involved, We're being put in a tough situation. Well,
(30:17):
we're gonna have to like really choose a side of
the cartel that we're going to be loyal to, and
by doing that, you're gonna create a home enemy. All
those moments lead up to those that big decisions to say,
I gotta stop this, and I'm tired of that, you know,
(30:38):
hurting the people you love, like having them live in fear.
And I lived in fear unselfishly. That's when Peter asked me, like, really,
I mean, we've been married a while already, and he
asked me if I want to leave, Like, if this
is there's the life that I want to live with him.
I didn't let her answer, he didn't let me answer.
(30:59):
I obviously I know what I wanted. I mean because
if I didn't know what I wanted, I would have
left a long time ago. I've had millions of reasons
to leave, and not because he wasn't a good husband
to me, not because he was a perfect husband to me,
but all the signs were there, they were like flashing
in my face. I knew what I wanted, but I
(31:21):
just listened to him very patiently and gave him my answer.
And you know, I stopped taking my birth control pills,
and then I was like pregnant. So everything that I
did want that day, everything that when we're sitting there
and and um handcuffed together, and everything that I regret,
(31:43):
I feel like I was I was giving that chance.
I felt like my decision was it wasn't well worth it.
And I feel like Peter's every decision that he made
since he was seventeen years old that I suffered the
consequences still today. A good husband Maybe would be different
(32:05):
in somebody else's eyes, but to me, that's all that matters.
That he's a great husband to me, a good husband.
It was a guilt that I carried, carried with me
and yours hazardous to me, to her, to our future,
to our marriage, to everything, and I had to do
(32:27):
something about it. There was a time where I mean brother,
(32:49):
did think that I could easily became one of them.
Is it kind of surreal because as a kid, as
a kid, you probably knew who Chopital was right when
you were younger maybe, and then you were like, hang on,
I am these are my idols, no question their my idols.
That once I was there, I did think like, wow,
(33:10):
I'm idolizing men. They're no different. We need no different.
There are men they're like me, they read they they're
nothing special. Did you see yourself as like a drug
lord kinkpin, because that's how they always get described. I
didn't see myself as I never seen myself. I never
(33:33):
seen myself as the way I'm talking about myself now.
It was just everything building up since I guess our
younger days, since we were kids. And there are so many,
all these traumatical experiences that happened. And I know firsthand
(33:55):
what they say about that life, about the life m
Selling drugs leads to prison for death sometimes both. And
I kind of knew that something was on the horizon,
like the tensions, the talking about this and talking about that.
(34:18):
And around that time, they had said certain rules. They
wanted to keep the price of a kilo. They wanted
to keep the price of drugs at a certain price.
They wanted to keep it a certain number. For instance,
in the beginning of kilo or cocaine, you could buy
a killo cocaine in Mexico City for eight thous and
(34:40):
could have gone it will cost you nine dollars. So
as you're moving north to kilo becomes more expensive. Even
in Mexico, and same for the States and the war
that was happening against the set that was costing a
lot of money. And you know, we sat down just
said it doesn't make any sense. Wars are expensive, and
(35:05):
I mean really expensive. Just so people don't realize this,
my resation month, my overhead was five hundred thousand dollars
a month. What you're ready of the head was half
a million, half a million dollars a month. So even
to break even you had to make five. Was that
(35:27):
a lot of money? I see that a lot of money?
Did you see that as a lot of five? No?
To me, it wasn't a lot of money. When it
came to invest in back and making sure that product
was safe and that we're the best case scenario. If
I walked away with you know, ten percent of profit,
(35:48):
then to me, it was worth it five hundred anywhere
from five of our profits. To me, it's like I
always looked at what I was making, even if it
took thirty of what I was making whatever. When it
came to our organization and our infrastructure, that we did
(36:11):
never ever took a shortcut, you know, like if I
was gonna buy semi trucks, I'll be like, get me
five brand new topic trucks and we're paying cash. Whatever
the case it was, it was not going to be
you know, I was not going to take it to
a short cut. I was gonna make sure that we
(36:32):
had the best equipment and the best workers and everyone
got paid well so that no one had to actually
ever kind of betray us or think differently. So the
wall was brewing almost hadn't happened at that time. Yes,
(36:53):
what we your choice is at that time, my choice
was to keep going and pick a side. And because
you knew that you would inevitably have to pick a side. Yes,
for sure, I knew that was coming. And you couldn't
go back to Chicago. I'm fusure if I wanted to
in America. You know, we thought about going to another country. Yes,
(37:15):
for sure, we kind of pleted that, you know a
few times, like did you think about on the extraside
of a country working at Costa Rica, we were pushing
Spain at that time. Getting there wasn't the problem. It's
just in Mexico. I was comfortable and we have a background.
I could say this is what we do, and you
(37:37):
have that ability to like maneuver and kind of blend
in a little bit. I know the language and all
the culture. Then by that time I was protected, right,
I already had escaped from being captured at one time.
I didn't want to go to another country have to
(37:59):
deal with it. But I always said, like I'm simple,
I could. I'd rather be lacked in a house by
a nice house right then left in prison. But that
came with a price. It meant that I was gonna
have to break away from my family. My wife don't
have to break away from her media family, because I
(38:23):
wasn't gonna take a chance for the FATS to find
out that I'm a country where they could just go
out and be like, hey, surprise, I'm here. Yes, they
could easily get you in Spain because you were you
weren't protected, and I'm one of those countries Canada or
whatever the cases. That wasn't gonna solve what I wanted
to do. That wasn't solve what was in my heart
(38:45):
for my family, you know, like a normal life. And
it was really getting to me. I you know, my
son was born. My son would always want to be
with me, and he loved playing with cars, and he
just say, I got caught up on the phone or something,
he will start playing with. My workers were my security,
(39:07):
and there they are holding a rifle back in that
was in the back and forth with a massive rifle.
That wasn't what I wanted for my kids. Like I
did that me running was wasn't gonna take away from
the hurt and the wrong I was actually doing to
(39:29):
my family. I saw myself like, here has no idea.
You know, a year old I saw like that that
I thought about my life. How you got accustom to
certain things I used to think about me. That's what
my family or you're not gonna do this. You could learn,
you could be good at it, but you're not gonna
do this. It's the perstanges. So there's options. And I
(39:56):
did believe that at that time. I started going with
this nose and always say like, yeah, all good things
are difficult. All those good things are going to take
some sacrifice. The easy to oh it's easy, don't go
to work. It's easy to stay home, but that's not
right thing to do. Right. The impending cartel war meant
(40:18):
that everyone was on high alert, and it wasn't just
Pete and j who were at risk of being caught
up in choosing a side. Val and Viev might have
joined the twins willingly, but just like the twins themselves,
their children will be born into our life. They didn't
choose JM. Val already had a one year old and
they had another on the way. Pete and Viev were
(40:40):
pregnant for the first time. And do we call options?
Always thinking of options, and me and my brother did
this a lot. He'll be like, this is what we
need and just you know, in the business, we're always
I think we made a successful that we were always
looking for the next thing. We didn't set up. We
didn't say, okay, listen to it. I know I needed
(41:02):
like some type of solution for what was coming. I
remember my brother and me thinking like wow, by talking
one time, it's gonna get really rough. Both our words
are pregnant. Now I remember, like, it's gonna get rough,
Like it's not. I don't think it's even safe for
them to be here anymore, like us being scared, like nervous,
(41:23):
like tell them that while they're pregnant, they need our support.
We're scared of telling them that we didn't think there
was a good idea for them to be with US
at the time. I got people in Colombia at the time,
just in case we're doing business that I gotta keep
(41:44):
up with them. I got people in Mexico City, I
got people that are working Wallahara, I got people in
I got people in Harsh. I have people in Mexicaligue,
l A, Chicago, Ohio, Detroit, New York that I you know,
how to be responsible for on a daily basis. It
(42:07):
takes a lot, It will take a lot of work.
So that have people with me. There's the people for
that work, real organization. There's there's like then we have
associate set that we're doing business, like somebody might be
doing this for me in you meet them, you're talking
to So I have twenty people every day on a
daily basis, depending on in some way somehow for even
(42:31):
the smallest things, like right around that time, I would
promise a wow that would like rub her feet everything
before she went to bed, And sometimes I could be
right there with her, but like we're not really talking.
She's in my presence, but two different lives. I remember
burn my feet and you know I'm getting phone cause
(42:53):
I had just lost a million dollars in New York
that day. But a seizure. And I think it was
my brother calling me and I have our speaker because
i'm massage. I'm haven't a speaker, Like, so, how much
did we lose? How much wasn't I think it was
like ten or close to ten. And he's like, damn
(43:16):
that sucks, Like, well, okay, well let's see what happens.
Just to keep in posting, like okay, you know she's
getting massage, like her belly big and sick. Baby, did
I just say, as you said that you lost ten
what like ten thousand? And I'm like, no, ten million
(43:36):
and chicken, you're fucking massage in my feet. It's okay
for you, it's okay. I don't even worry about it. No, no,
and then it's okay. That was life for us. To us,
it was just the business, and you know her as
more was the people who were losing, those people that
were associated that hurt us. But it was just I
(44:02):
guess the business, right h At that time, I was
living in the city. Well, how we're kind of more
(44:25):
by ourselves, me and we are by ourselves. And val
had actually will travel back to Chicago once a month
for like a week or ten days it'll give me
in Tommy, my best friend, chance to kind of like
just we just hang out. I was watching TV and
this documentary came out about John Gotti in the MOFILM,
and I was translating it for Tommy basically talking about
(44:46):
the case, so I was translated for him. It basically
talked about Sammy the Boost case and John got it
their history, and it just said that, you know, Sammy
the book had received five years for nineteen murders first
corporation against Jang Gaddi, and you know at that time,
I mean I already knew of the story, but this
(45:07):
was kind of going in debt about details and how
they kind of got to the point of the investigation.
So us it was like not a big deal, I
guess right, but I'm sure that for the eight years
or from New York, but whatever. At the time, it
was a big deal to them. And I remember thinking
to myself, Wow, yeah, five years for covering against Siang Gaddi.
In my head, I was like, who the fuck is
(45:28):
Joan Gaddi. John Gotti was the boss of the Gambino
crime family in New York. He was known as one
of the most dangerous and powerful crime bosses in the US.
Gotti was the original tef London. No one could get
a conviction to stick until his whitehamed man Sammy the Ball,
cooperated with the FBI to help put Gotti behind bars.
(45:51):
Sammy the Ball confessed to nineteen murders but received a
five year prison sentence because of his cooperation. The people
we were dealing with, I felt like I was living
John got his whole life. Each day kind of left
this like imprinting me like wow, it was an idea.
(46:11):
I'm saying this today because I do recall that moment.
I want to tell you that I kind of thought
about it, maybe not cooperating, but the difference between John Gotti,
who was John gott It to the mob and who
was Chapel to the world, I guess, or who was
Miles and about that to the world, you're kind of
(46:34):
away those things go. It was, Oh, he was such
an important criminal figure in New York City, whereas Chapin
was Willed Whige, Drew King Finn. I mean, I think
there's seventies six countries that the organization was in. Kind
of left that I thought in my head I would
(46:58):
get to badly that time time I was sleepy one day,
I guess my mind would always be racing. I woke
up in the middle of night and I too call
it in epiphany. It was this moment of just clarity,
I could cooperate and came past. I could co operation,
(47:22):
I could do some time, and I could just have
a different life. I could get out. I could just
leave this. I remember looking over about like then it
just hit me, like brought me back to out. It
like calling the funk down. Hold on, hold on, you
just said something really stupid. And I remember I always
(47:44):
talked to God. I always said, like this came to
me for a reason, and I was trying to think
about all the stupid decisions I made that I had
thought about and the reason why I was scared to
talk about because she had this, you know that said
she could have had hate at times, and she did
not like snuches at all. Today she's a different woman.
(48:09):
I think she's at peace. At that time, I guess
just from her being in the business and her everything
been through. She didn't like stitches and I knew how
she felt, so I felt I different, like, uh, a
little bit less of a man. Just don't even think
about that. But I'm like sitting here, like thinking, would
(48:30):
I tell her, Like, how do I even know if
this is a good idea? I can't even say it.
She was gonna be my filter. She was gonna be like,
let me tell her first, because he's like, could trust
her that she would be honest. We probably go to
my brother, who I knew it was gonna be a problem.
I woke up, I felt good, just like energy, not
(48:57):
until like I came back to that like a little bit.
I thought about what I was gonna say, what Peter
was gonna say her. Then you almost like talk to
yourself that it was, Oh no, it stepidst idea. Yeah,
but I saw her and I just I remember just
seeing her and seeing my son. He's in his crew
(49:17):
at the time. I know this is the thing to do,
but I'm always open to me the wrong. Maybe someone
could tell me something better. I just couldn't sleep after that,
and I still remember throughout the day like I felt
like I was keeping something from her. The next night,
(49:41):
she's sleeping, I have to tell her. But I had
planned to get her right in the middle by she sleeping,
so she was calm, and I'm like, I could be
ruining her stay. She could be so mad and then
I forget it. But right when she was calm, where
she was gonna hopefully just take it in you know,
the right way. I know, just you know, like baby
(50:04):
b because she didn't. She was heavy sleeper, so like
she finally together like hey, why what what's wrong? I
was like, I need to talk to you. What let's say.
It's important, it's really important. She's turned like, yeah, what's wrong?
You know? I started off like I do this a lot.
(50:27):
I want to tell you something. It's just an idea,
but please don't be mad. Just don't be mad, just
think about it, or just just don't be mad, just
tell me, respond to me in a nice way, just
tell me no, or just don't be upset. Could you
just promise me you won't be all set? And she
(50:49):
looks a little bit like nervous. She's thinking, what the
hell did you do? Right? She's like, NA, like, I
won't be mad, but tell me, I like, you prom
is you're not gonna be upset, You're not gonna look
at me a certain way. And she's like, no, that
you could trust me to tell me? And they said,
(51:10):
you know how I promised you that would change my
Life's like, yes, what if I told you I have
the answer? And she's like, what do you mean? I said,
what if I told you I had the answer? How
I could change my life? But we could have a
(51:32):
different life. It's just like, yeah, I'm lost. And I repeated, like,
what if I told you I had the answer but
it was gonna take some type of sacrifice, but we
could have a different life for our kids. What would
you say? I would say, let's do it right, just
(51:55):
hold that thought. It will take a big sacrifice. I mean, okay,
I tell me your said, I hope this doesn't change
of relationship. Just no, I won't. Just let me know.
And I said, what if we were to cooperate? Did
she give us? She said what? My heart? I mean,
(52:18):
I'm nervous, Like and I'm thinking, was that what? Like
I didn't understand you because I could have just been shired.
I said, what if we cooperate? Like what do you mean?
I said, like, what if? And he reached out to
the said and we cooperate? It was like, you're crazy, like,
(52:42):
just what if? What if we co operate? If Sam
in the book Five Years Who seven book got five years.
What if we were to turn in the top all
on my one of them. I think we would have
(53:03):
to do some prison time, but we'll have a chance
to change your life. And she just stood there staring
at me, and I'm coming up with this just at
that moment. I didn't think about it that far. I'm
just the first basic was I didn't expect her to
be like, how already got that? And she's quiet and
(53:28):
she's just tearing me, and then she just started crying.
She said, do it. That's what Chan did, though. She said,
but what are you gonna do about your brother? I said,
(53:51):
I'm gonna have to do prison time. She's like, how
long do you think? I said, I'm not sure, and
she said how much does the same we get. I
said five years. She's like, oh, well, you would get
less than that. And I'm like, wow, I don't know.
(54:12):
But I said, let's just be realistic. Say we get
ten years, and you know, i'd have to do it
and have for a good time if I could get
a couple programs out. I'm being really positive too, Okay,
I'd have to do like seven years. Seven years I'll
(54:32):
take and we'll be out. And she's like seven years.
I said, listen, your average parents goes to work, and
I started to calculate, wrap my phone up, have a
calculate in it. They were four hours a week. Starts
doing this calculation, and I'm thinking that they're averaging maybe
(54:55):
spending four hours a day with their kid on the
week days and then you know on the weekends they
have four days, you know, but any time for themselves, Like,
we're not that far off all the time we could
spend with our kids in the process. And she's just
like ten years. I'm just saying worst case, and she's like,
(55:20):
do it. I was blind about what I wanted to do.
That it kept me like from seeing anything that I
think would make me think twice or make me reconsider.
I didn't think about the money. I didn't think about
anything else, put about changing my life. I do remember
(55:45):
like me about talking about a little bit more. You know,
when I think of something that I have an idea
of people who do know me, I get excited. I
get like anti like I wanted to get to it.
So I would like talked about about different things, you know,
all the days, just no matter what I was doing,
I was like going back to that God, and I
(56:06):
did feel a lot like I felt really loved. I
think that's what I was always looking for in the
way that I was receiving that love from violence. I
remember just like I would see her, I would look
at her like I was happy, but then I'd be
nervous thinking about my brother. I don't remember thinking about
(56:30):
anything else, you know, I was just thinking about that.
I was looking for a good time to tell my
brother too. Days later I wanted to. It was within
that week or so, We're gonna go to a business meeting,
(56:51):
you know. We're talking and said, hey, Peter, like I
need to talk to about something. But you can't be bad.
What do you mean you can, I said, I want
to say something to you. I want to just give
me an idea. But if you don't like it, just
just don't be mad, you know, just hear me out.
He already tell me, I said, you're not gonna be mad,
(57:13):
and he will always like get mad at that just sucking.
Tell me, what the fun did you do? I said, no,
listen to an idea, all right. Tell me. I was nervous.
I was really nervous. My heart is like I feel
like it's shrinking, like I'm like, we know what's coming.
(57:33):
I think we have a chance, like we could get
out this life. And he's like, oh, how how is that?
Don't be mad? He said, fucking tell me a ready,
And what if we would cooperate? He said what I said,
(57:55):
what if we were to cooperate? I couldn't even finish
saying the last one when he was like, you was stupid.
Motherfucker just started screaming, yelling, and and I'm like, y'll
calm down, like you don't want the fucker like we
just end up just we're too closer, so that we
(58:17):
started to get physical, started kind of throwing each other
like you're stupid, but you know, like literally throwing each
other against the wall, like you dumb motherfucker. What'd you
fucking ever say that? Again? Is stupid buck? Everything you
could think of, and I just took it. I felt defeated.
(58:38):
I went from still be nervous, but think about it.
I felt like I had just invented something new, right
like my ventions someone just as it sucks, right Like
I felt defeated. I wasn't even mad, like I felt
like I was letting him let his anger come on. Remember,
I just kind of like stepped away, like you'll just
(58:59):
calmed down, all right, just chill, and he was just
like look at me, mad, like stupid ass, like everything
you could think of it. And I didn't really to
see him. I don't remember feel like why does he
(59:20):
get that decision? Because at that time I was like
always coming up with different ideas. And but then I said, oh,
I argue went so well, he's right. We didn't make
this decision together to come into the hurt. It couldn't
hurt me a couple of days past life, I remember
(59:45):
thought him looking at it, We're making millions of balls
of month. Everything's going good. Don't suck this up, all right?
I could tell that he already down. I was already
making him up. Mike and bulls boy, remember my brother
is that well there was his mindset that where he
(01:00:06):
was making that decision doing they could affect everything else.
Like that was the main issue that was bothering me
when I wanted to choke him up with like broth,
do listen to what you're willing to understand. And I
still not only that, I said the satisfy that we
looked alike. I would, but it looks like mine he
(01:00:28):
has a rally of reason. He has a valid reason,
valid valid he has read it. We look alike. They
don't know who the right, They don't nothing. But basically,
no matter what, they didn't see us. That's two they
saw his once. And what was I thinking? It's kind
(01:00:51):
of like in having my brother as you know, as
my overprotective brother of course, and then having him as
a business partner, and we're so intertwining through our life
with each other and in so many ways obviously we're twins,
but I just feel a little bit like, wow, I
can't even make the decision for my family. We're a
(01:01:14):
package deal regardless if we don't agree on many things,
I mean, a big decision like that, we have to agree.
It has to work for both of us. How was it?
We didn't talk about it. We actually it didn't happen.
I could tell he still had like a little anger,
(01:01:39):
and I want to maybe a week, ten days later,
twelve days later. It was a while. My form rang
wenday with the weekday day and night like twue morning
and like hell, and it was hello. He's just like,
(01:02:08):
how would we do it? Surviving l Chapo The twins
who brought down a drug Lord is hosted by Curtis
fifty cent Jackson and me Charlie Webster. Our producers are
myself alongside Jackson mcclennan. Research and editorial support is from
(01:02:31):
Casey Hurtz. Edit and sound designed by Nico Palella. Original
score by Ryan Sorenson. Executive produced by Curtis fifty cent
Jackson and myself Charlie Webster. If you'd like to know
more about this story, head over to lions Gate Sound
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(01:02:52):
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