January 6, 2023 • 60 mins
Prolific Peace Activist Aqeela Sherrills shares his journey and what's on the horizon for the movement.
About Oya:
Oya L Sherrills is a survivor, a lived experience leader in her field, an advocate, and an organizer. Author of "Musings of a Rascal", she works to create a culture where healing practices are centered and valued. Oya likes to pave paths that connect past and future ancestors in efforts to prioritize peace and community-driven solutions that break cycles of violence and address trauma. She's creative, she's a mama, and she's for the trees.
Links:
https://www.instagram.com/aqeelasherrills/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Content warning. This episode will discuss a lot of heavy
topics such as sexual assault and homicide. Please be kind
to yourself, prepare yourself with before and or after care,
and remember if you are a loved one, it's going
through it. You can call the National Sexual Salt Hotline
(00:23):
at one hundred six five six hope, that's one hundred
six five six four six seven three. Or if you're grieving,
you can reach out to Compassionate Friends at one eight
seven seven zero zero one zero. Thank you. Join us
(00:51):
to explore the stories, policies, practices and ideas. This is
Survivors Oh yeah, welcome, good people. This is episode seven
of the Survivor's Hill podcast in which I sit down
(01:14):
with the Kila Sharells. And if you're thinking the name
sounds familiar, yes, this is my father. But also he
has put in over three decades of work to in
urban street violence. He is a celebrated peace activist, one
of the architects of the Los Angeles Peace Treaty that
(01:36):
was forged between the Crips and the Bloods, particularly in
the community of Watts, but that served as a model
for communities all across the nation and even internationally. Achaila
Sharrells is a renaissance man. Truly. He has been described
as a social enterprise entrepreneur and art curator, an advocate
against the death penalty, a criminal justice reformer, a strategist,
(02:00):
and a leader in the New Survivor's movement. He's the
only reason I'm here. But seriously, his work has catalyzed
double digit reductions and violence and communities like Newark, New Jersey,
where he has built out a community based public safety
strategy that is now being replicated in cities across the
(02:23):
nation with the investment of the Biden in Harris administration.
We have this conversation in the spring of and it's
truly one that you must tap into. Check it out. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
I have the great pleasure to sit here with my
(02:46):
personal superhero, someone who has been the light of my life. Um,
and this is my father, Achila Sharell's I mean and
he has touched lives all across the community, all across
(03:07):
the state, all across the nation, and all across the world.
And so if you don't know about him, then sit down,
pull up your chair or wherever you are listening in
get into it, because this is some really good stuff.
And you should know this name, Akila cherrellse how are
(03:29):
you doing. I'm good, I'm good. Thanks so much all
you for having me on the show. Thanks for coming.
Oh my god, your schedule it's so crazy insane right now.
I know. I'm like I'd be sending friends of mine
to Dorene to schedule meetings and I'd be like, hey,
I'm sorry to put you on the schedule. I'm like,
(03:49):
my schedule is so crazy right now that I have
to have people to check in with doren or they'll
just get moved off. Like if it's not on my calendar,
it's not going to happen. Absolutely that. I mean, it's
so necessary because we're living in like the metavers and
the multiverse, and you know, you're literally like time traveling,
you know, all across the country, you know, different time
(04:13):
zones right every like every couple of days. I mean,
it's amazing. So the reason why you're here today to
talk with me is because I would like for you
to talk about, like, really the beginnings of this new
Survivor's movement, the movement that has catapulted all across the
(04:35):
nation and transformed the way that people identify when it
comes to being survivors of crime. It's transformed the way
that folks have um understood, you know, the intersection between
being a survivor of crime but also criminal justice reform.
You know, it's also transformed the way that we've talked
(04:58):
about healing and what it east to hill. We've seen
the organizations that you have helped to seed grow to
eleven thousand members in California alone, yes, ninety thousand members nationally.
Man Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice is now the
largest survivor network in the country. I mean it is,
(05:21):
you know, just unbelievable, like all praisons due to God, right, Yeah,
so it's a real blessing. Yeah. So I would like
for you just to kind of talk with us about
the beginnings of the movement. Well, I guess a lot
of the work started around CSSJ with Lenor Anderson, Robert Rooks,
A Dela Barajas Sat the body Guy. Um. I think myself,
(05:46):
Sudata and rob and Lenoir were the first kind of
cohort of Californias for Safety and Justice to start working
on expanding this whole idea of Crime Survivors for Safety
and Justice. Right, and one of the reasons why it
was important for us to do is because in California
there's always been a very strong and powerful victims rights movement. However,
(06:10):
when you said victim, it spoke to a specific you know,
group and population, Like most black folks identified victims as
you know, upper middle class white women who live in
suburbia who have been you know, the victims of of
of Hainia's violent acts. You know, um, sexual assault, you know,
primarily you know, domestic violence. But when you look at
(06:31):
you know, victimization across the state in California, Like, even
though black folks are only eight percent of the population,
we lead in every single category of victims of crime
in the state. Yet we don't identify as victims as
a as a community and as a culture because victims
has a it has a negative connotation in the community.
So we had to like create a new point of
(06:51):
entry for people to be able to access resources and
healing and recovery services as victims survivors you know, of
of trauma. And so we came up with this term
survivor because we were like survivor says that a person
has had an experience and conceivably they don't want it
to happen to anybody else, and that they're engaged in
(07:11):
their respective healing journey. You know, I love you know,
my sister Mattie Scott out of San Francisco. You know,
she says that we are turning our pain in the power,
you know. And so the Survivor's movement was essentially about advocacy.
It was about bringing black and brown people into this
conversation around victimization in a system that doesn't necessarily even
(07:32):
see black folks as human. Okay, what they say the
leading cause of of African American males between the ages
of fourteen and two gun violence. However, if you look
at critical service provision in community, they're very little focused
groups to help black men deal with trauma, to deal with, um,
you know, being harmed. It's you know, it's just been
(07:54):
like kind of few and falling between in terms of
service provision to support people in their in their respective
healing journey. And so we we launched Crime Survivors for
Safety and Justice as an advocacy group to create like
a real agenda around making sure that our voices are heard. Um.
We produced one of the first reports in the state
asking victims what they wanted because you know, people are
(08:15):
always running around talking about victims want this, victims want that,
but nobody never asked them. So we we contracted with
Vendor and Associates, which is one of the most respected,
you know, research groups in the state, bipartisans, So both
Republicans and Democrats utilize this group, and we discovered a lot,
you know, in that report. I mean, the first thing
is that we discovered that less than of crimes are
(08:37):
reported period, you know, in terms of people who are victimized,
less than the population even knew that Victims Camp and
Victims Services actually even existing, right, most black folks understand
Victims Camp, you know, our Victims Services as the funeral fund.
We think that, you know, the only thing that victims
compon the state paid for our funerals. And the reality
is is that it's not true. They paid for wage replacement.
(08:59):
They paid for you know, if you equipment is stolen
out of a car, when you know, somebody breaking your
house and still your equipment, they replace it. You know,
if you are you know, shot and you become incapacitated,
I mean, you know, they buy wheelchairs, they will retrofit
your house. I mean, all of these things are available
through victims camp. But because the way that the system
is organized and there's things called like contributing behavior that
(09:23):
was in the in the in the regulatory um language
in the States, it makes it difficult for a lot
of black and brown folks to be able to access dollars.
And the other huge thing barrier was that in most
states you got to go through the police department to
be deemed a victim. So the police report is actually
what qualifies you as a victim. That goes to the
prosecutor's office on the district attorney's office and then they
(09:46):
utilize that to determine whether or not you've been a victim.
Proudest day of my life was the passing of SP
five eight, you know, the Trauma Recovery Center bill UM
that was you know, uh t rcs were launched by
Dr Basilari Um out of San Francisco. TRC is a
down in some like forty two cities across the country.
Started in California with with eleven and twelve of them.
(10:07):
Top forty seven funded them in perpetuity, you know. Yeah,
So the TRC allows a person to self identify as
a victim, you know, and and start receiving services through
the TRC sixteen sessions immediately, it's profound. You know, I
operated t RC in Newark, New Jersey. This is our
second year of it, and you know, it's hard to
(10:28):
get black folks into mental health services and wellness services.
But when it's the all of the therapists or from
the neighborhoods you're serving, UM as well as your project director,
it's like those warm handoffs become easier to make happen.
And so to date, we've had over three hundred survivors
go through you know, our Trauma Recovery Center, and I
think that we have something like a like a like
(10:50):
graduation rate of people who have actually gone and completed
the sixteen sessions and some many have really signed up
for new ones. So we're getting we're getting help our
trauma now, UM, something that we just never did before.
So I'm excited about that, right And so can you
speak to what is possible when folks address the trauma
(11:12):
that has you know, gone so long unaddressed. Well, you know, UM,
yesterday and today we celebrated the thirty and anniversary of
the Peace Treaty, and when we talk about the peace treaty.
You know, it speaks to that there must there's a
war beforehand, right, And a lot of people when we
talk about the war that was happening in l A
(11:34):
and a lot of urban cities across the country, people
are like war like, it's not more. I'm like, no,
when I say wear, I mean war. Right, because in
l A County alone, three talking about twenty so called
gang related depths, not including those permanently maimed or incrocerated
for the rest of the life behind their participation. So
you have whole communities that are suffering from traumatic stress
(11:56):
dis sort of hyper vigilance and vicarious trauma with no
comprehensive wellness centers that that addressed, you know, the deep
harm that people have experienced in terms of you know,
healing and support and healing and recovery services, and so
most of the violence that we see happening in community
is a result of trauma unaddressed trauma. We we've allowed
(12:16):
trauma to ripple and fester um in the community. I mean,
you know, because the systemic racism and implicit bias, you know,
it goes all the way back to eugenics, you know,
basically right in which they would say that like like
black people's heads were tougher and and you know we
could be beat and stuff like just such weird stuff
(12:37):
like you know that that white folks that came up with,
you know, in order to justify harming us and uh,
perpetuating this system of enslavement, right because it was although
they took off the change, you know, there was a
psychological like kind of change that was put on on folks,
right and so um. But also there were laws so
(13:00):
many industries. But also it just kept us away from
the ability to really thrive, you know when we're talking
about laws against us, you know, getting fair housing. You know, um,
even if it was like backdoor, it was you know,
because there was Jim Crow and then and then it
was redlining, you know what I mean. There were always
(13:22):
these subtle ways that you know, we were imprisoned and
then there's mass incarceration in eighties and nineties, you know
that returned us back to like you know chains right. Well,
the war on drugs was essentially a war on on
black folks, in the war on the community, because in
open crisis, you know, was being addressed differently in white
(13:45):
a fluent neighborhoods our white neighborhoods period, and it addressed
differently in the fluent neighborhoods, right, but in most black communities,
in poor urban black communities, it was criminalized. And so
instead of seeking a mental health and a in a
public health solution to this opioid crisis that was raging
out of control in our neighborhood, they were seeking a
(14:05):
criminal legal solution, you know, and just basically locking people
for actually either possessing or using drugs. And and again
people use drugs in order to self medicate because they
couldn't access services. And so it's been really horrific. Like
you know, there's a systemic response to black harm, right,
it's created false narratives like you know, black on black crime,
(14:29):
right as if I mean, you know, black folks live
in community to man, we pay taxes just like everybody else.
I mean, hundreds of billions of dollars into the you know,
public safety system. Why are we responsible for our own safety?
You know? In these communities, it's like, you know, violence,
it's about proximity, right, and so people, you know, black
(14:49):
people hurt each other because they all live in the
same community together. Latino people hurt each other, White people
hurt each other, Asian people hurt each other. But yet
there's some I call it white supremacy idiation, you know
what I'm saying, there's some piece that permeates this whole
idea of black on black violence, you know, as if
we are the source of it. I'm like, no, this
was calculated, in um in orchestrated, you know, like food deserts.
(15:11):
I mean, like these things are organized. They're not by
happenstance and by chance, you know, much like the Peace
movement in ninety two, in which, you know, those who
were the victims of the violence in the community decided
to do something about it and and change the reality
of our community, very much like you know, the Survivor's movement.
You know, we we decided that no longer, you know what,
(15:34):
we allow them to control the narrative around our lives,
because you know, he is she who controls the narrative,
controls the game. And so you know, it's not uncommon
for right a black mother to have one child buried
in prison in one of the graveyard, you know, and
and in many cases, the number one preemptive calls for
murder in our community and self defense because you know,
(15:56):
people cannot depend upon the criminal legal system. Law enforcement
does not fond to black needs as they should, and
so unfortunately we've had to take justice you know, quote
unquote into our own hands. And when you do that,
you lose your victims status right and your ability to
be able to access services. So then from that arose
this whole false narrative around this idea of a pure victim.
(16:18):
You know that folks who have had any type of
contact with the criminal you know, justice system are somehow
not victims, you know, and and it's just ridiculous. You know.
We we did a lot of work with VOCA, with
the Victims of Crime Act, you know, in the federal
government to change some of the statues so that whether
you're incarcerated, like even when when you're in prison and
(16:39):
you get harmed, it's like you need to be seen
as a victim so that you can access services and resources.
It's just ridiculous that we're allowed to be harmed and
you know we can't access you know, healing and recovery services,
right because I mean when we think about like you know,
the leading document that that rules the land, it says
(17:01):
that we all have access to the pursuit of life,
liberty and happiness right and if our lives are in
constant danger right um, whether or not, whether or not
you have you know, made some mistake, committed some you know,
agregious act. You know you still have that right, you
(17:22):
still have that right to life. And for you not
to be able to access services, you know, to make
sure that you know you can continue to pursue happiness
and liberty, then I mean, then what are we doing?
You know, it becomes in it becomes a question of
whether or not, you know, is it constitutional? Is it
constitutional to deny people the right to heal from Harvor?
(17:48):
You know? And hold that thought. We'll be right back
after a word from our sponsors. I wanna I wanna
(18:15):
take us back a little bit because I know you've
touched on the peace treaty right and basically the war
that proceeded that. But can you tell us a little
bit about your role in your experience in these things,
like what brought you to these movements? Well, the thing
(18:40):
that brought me to this work has lived experience. I
mean I grew up in the joint down housing projects
and witnessed things that no child should be subject to.
You know, I've seen people shot to death, stabbed to death,
beat to death, and you know, it had a profound
effect on me just in terms of fitnessing that type
(19:00):
of UM, you know, violence and and you know it
desensitized me. And so, you know, growing up in the
projects and stuff, you you know, lose friends and family
members UM, you know, to violence and UM and violent crime,
and you know, you become like more and more desensitized
to witnessing these things happen. And so UM, as a
(19:21):
way of protecting myself, you know, you join the you know,
you joined the culture, you know. And so I participated
in UM in what many social justice activists called the
longest running war in history this country, which is urban
street gang wars. Right. But in nineteen eighty seven, I
was UM. I graduated from high school, inspired by my
sister Lan, the first in our family to go to
(19:43):
a four year university and graduate. And I went to
Calcate north Ridge. But when I got there, I had
a transformative experience. This was at the height of the
war in l A. You know, in the late eighties,
uh eight, you know, we was experiencing about eleven murders
in the city and other fifteen hundred in the county.
I mean, it was it was really horrific, and everybody,
like I said, was getting shot around me. And I
(20:05):
just didn't understand it, you know, and I just wanted
to be away from it. Um So going to cow
State Northridge, literally hiding on campus. Even when breaks came up,
like for Easter or you know, like kind of school
breaks and stuff, I would opt to stay on campus
and not go home because I was like, it's just
too much happening. And again I couldn't you know, articulate
(20:27):
what was happening. But you know, I met a woman
in school. You know, women always changes their lives, brothers,
So you know, um, I met this woman in in
in school who was a year ahead of me, gorgeous,
and you know I was, you know, we was the
trampion kids and the projects growing up and stuff. So
my self esteem was still shot. Even though I could
you know, dress it up. Um, I was still a clown,
(20:50):
you know. And in terms of my uh my feelings
and the most and you know, Lisa afforded me an
opportunity to expose was a deep secret in my personal
life that gave me the ability to access. My joy, I,
you know, was in trouble getting ready to get kicked
out of school, and I cheated on her and and
(21:13):
I burnt her right, and I had to tell her
the truth, you know. And the thing is, it wasn't
even that I like, I didn't have to tell her
the truth, because you know, I lied about it, of
course when she first confeted me about it. And it's
not funny, it's not it's you know, but I absolutely
lied about it because that's right, this was my own
you know, immaturity, right. But you know, as I lied
(21:35):
about it, I felt guilty about what I did to
this woman because she was so good to me and
supported me and looked out for me. And so at
the same time I had just discovered that I had
I was having my uh well, I got a phone
call from my um, from Judy, from your grandmother that
Alicia was pregnant with you. And I was like, oh
(21:55):
my god, you know, because I was eighteen years old
and essentially you were like my fourth child that was
being born, and I was on academic probation getting minted
to get kicked out of school. You know, this girl
that I was crazy about that, and you know, got busted.
Therefore I did what I did, you know, when I
was extremely stressed out and traumatized, I went and got
(22:18):
me a fat joint and some gin in the old seagrooms,
you know, bottle, and I got drunken high. And as
I was laying up in my bed like contemplating that
I was in trouble, I started reflecting on my childhood.
You know. So as kids, we didn't have a lot materially,
and so what we didn't have materially we made up
with our imagination. And so we used to talk about
this thing we called the story. And the story was
(22:40):
about how we would be walking down the street, we're
falling this hole, and we meet this ancient Chinese master.
You know, we we believed that anything that had anything
to do with wisdom, you know, had to be you know, Chinese,
because we love karate movies and stuff. Right, So the
Chinese master basically said that he was waiting for us.
He blessed us with special powers and gifts, and he
charged us to change the world. And we told the
(23:01):
story so much that it literally became my mantra. I
believe that I would grow up and do something great
one day because we told the story so much, and
so anytime I got in troubled, I would always reflect
on the story. And so this was one of those
moments in which it was a transformative moment actually, in
which I was like, you know, God, I'm supposed to
grow up and do something great. I'm like the story.
(23:22):
You know, you charged us with changing the world, and
now I need to know what my role is in this.
And I fell asleep, woke up feeling a little refreshed,
and decided to do the first noble thing in my life,
which was to tell this woman the truth. And so
I invited out to lunch and I'm sitting across the
table from her. Heart is beating out of my chest
and I didn't know what I was gonna even say.
(23:45):
You know, I was like, I'm sorry that it was
me as if she didn't know right, And she was
like why And I said, I don't know why. Maybe
it has something to do with what happened to me
as a kid, And she was like, well what happened?
And I shared with her that I was sexually abused
as a kid. Now this admission for me was transformative,
because I promised myself I would never tell anybody about
(24:05):
what happened to me, And I had so thoroughly suppressed
in my imagination that I convinced myself it didn't happen.
But clearly you could see it in all of my behaviors,
you know, the over promiscuity, the womanizing and objectifying. You
could see it play out in my behavior. And so
as I'm sitting there, I was transported back to that
place in the third grade when it first happened. And
(24:28):
you know, I realized that I really never questioned the
violence that I witnessed actually happened in the neighborhood because
it meant the question of violence that I experienced in
my own house. And I didn't have language for it,
you know, and I didn't have courage to confront the
perpetrator about it because I knew that, you know, he
would deny it. Right. But I had a professor, you know,
who was a mentor who grew up in Jordan Downs
who it came out of Wats that had me reading
(24:52):
James Baldwin the effort this the Things Not Seen, and
that book actually, along with the admission, became my transformative moment.
James Baldwin, The Evidences of Things Not seen this about
the Atlanta child murders, and it was about how Wayne
Williams was convicted of murders with no evidence, you know,
I mean, he was convicted of two other murders and
the others to this day are still unsolved. But James
(25:14):
baldwan theory was that the government thought they discovered a cancer,
I guess in the seamen of young black boys, and
they were utilizing them as guinea pigs. And he made
a case for it, you know, and it was really
really profound, Like you know, this book, I never saw
a black man like so articulate, that challenged like white
authority and challenged black leadership in a way that was
just so masterful. And it it gave me, It gave
(25:37):
me m language, you know, his his articulation, you know,
because I devoured everything James Baldwin after I read that book, Um,
and then I've read to Autobiography of Malcolm X, which
was my my story, you know, because I was born
and raised in the Nation of Islam, you know, my
pop's new Malcolm X, you know. And so this this
um was like the thing that kind of me on fire,
(26:01):
and I went back, you know, to the neighborhood, you know,
that summer armed with all of this new found like
um insight around the black experience because I had to
find somebody to blame for the harm and the trauma
that I was suffering, and I didn't have the uh,
the knowledge just yet on how to be accountable and
(26:22):
and perform alchemy on it for myself, right, I had
to project it out, and so you know, I became
a you know, a devout fundamentalist Muslim in addition to
a Black nationalist, you know, in which I was like, yo,
you know, white people are responsible for all of the
suffering that we're going through until I met you know,
Brother why Tining Them and Uh and Brother Kamal Hassan
(26:43):
and the brothers from the New African People's Movement who
really helped me to understand like, you know, the whole
concept of red, black and green, you know, inspiration by
what was it emotion, sustenance by reason and I thinking
of the black one the for but uh, it was
it was a profound like science that I learned from
(27:04):
these brothers that helped me to balance my own trauma
and actually start engaging my healing journey. So you know,
coming to terms with being a survivor of c s
A was kind of one of the first ways in
which I recognize that there's a gift in the wound.
You know that we're not our experiences. You know, the
things that have happened to us, the things that we
have perpetrated, they don't define who we are. They're they're
(27:26):
only informing who we become. Right And so I I
metamorphous to give an idea about this experience. You know
that I had as as being a survivor of c
s A, of childhood sexual abuse, and and I recognized
that I had a profound gift as a result of
the experience, because I don't know what life is like
without it. But I have this capacity. It's like clairvoyance, honestly,
(27:48):
like that I could see deeply and feel deeply into
things like folks who have had a similar experience. I
connect with like kind of easily. And I tell my
story as a way of creating access, because when we
expose the deep secrets and shames in our personal life,
we give others permission to do the same. And so
learning how to behold to hold space for the highest
(28:08):
possibilities and probabilities to emerge from a person's experience, like
not saying that somebody is good or bad, because both
of those a judgments, you know, But to hold someone
in the balance, you know, to be in a consistent
like kind of place of observation are you know, as
the Buddhists call it, to be present and detached right,
has been a practice now, you know for me, and
(28:31):
I felt like it carried me for a long like
kind of journey through the Peace Treaty, you know, through
the tenth anniversary, and then tragedy struck. You know, um,
my oldest son, Terrell, you know, home one winter break,
went to a party with some of his friends and
uh in Lodera Heights you know, fluent black neighborhood on
(28:51):
the west side of l a and was shot to
death at the party. I'm I'm no novice to violence,
whom witnessed it all my life, but nothing ever pairs
you for the loss of your child. And man, it's like, um,
that was um transformative, you know, to say the least, right,
(29:12):
this not being able to like, you know, feeling powerless
to be able to protect your own children. And this
was you know, sixteen years into the process of the
peace treaty, but it shifted something in me. I mean
I I was like, I don't want to do programmings.
(29:34):
I was like, I want to I want to drop
beneath the veil and get behind the conditionings to try
to understand, like what would cause a person to take
another human beings life? What happened in the personal life
of this young man that would cause him to take
another life because you don't, you don't kill somebody and
then the next day you're up skipping and singing and dancing.
(29:56):
I mean, you see your victim's face and dreams and
imaginings and flashbacks like so this kid who murdered Terrell,
his life is intrinsically connected to Terrell's for the rest
of it, and and him living somewhat of a balanced
life in this world. Will will hinge upon his ability
to reconcile what he did. You know, again, I don't
believe that people are the worst experiences, you know, And
(30:17):
there was a lot that I could have done right,
because the streets talked, you know, like even though seventeen
years later, Terrell's case is still a cold case, you know,
in the criminal legal system, but as you know, you know,
a couple of weeks after he was murdered, you know,
folks from from the neighborhood reached out and gave us
his name, address and telephone number of the perpetrator. And
(30:40):
you know, I had to talk not only Terrell's friends
but also my friends and family members down from harming
this kid, because I was like, killing this kid is
not going to bring Terreil bank. It's going to perpetuate
this whole eye for an eye tooth for a tooth
game that we've been playing that has left us all
blind and toothless. I'm like, we gotta, we gotta harness
the etheric energy of Terrell, and we gotta do something
(31:02):
different with it. And and I was like, so I
want to be an advocate, not to condone in any
way what this kid did, I mean, you know, and
to ask why, like and what happened in the personal
life of this kid doesn't condone what he did. It
actually kind of validate his humanity, you know, to say
(31:22):
that out of struggle, out of you know, trauma that comes,
you know, trauma begets trauma right are are as they say,
hurt people, hurt people, right, And so I hold space,
you know that that I'll meet this kid one day.
You know, my life is pretty serendipitous. So I'm sure
that he's out there watching. He's probably listening to this
show right now, you know. And uh and um, I
(31:45):
want to ask him, you know, when we connect, like
what happened in your personal life that calls you to
commit such a heineous violet act. If I get an
opportunity to meet his parents, I want to know like
kind of where did they lose connection or if they
ever had a connection, right then I want to work
with him, you know, to make sure that he gets
to proper counseling, therapy or whatever healing moved out of
it is necessary, um, so that he can live some
(32:08):
of a balanced life in this world, whether he's in
an institution or whether he's out on the street, because
he has something to give back. You know, death is
an initiation. Initiation is the deep analysis and inquiry into
circumstances that brought you to a particular place. And so
I mean I could say that, hey, you know, like
most folks would would probably you know, says that you
(32:29):
know that this kid accountability looks like the death penalty.
You take a life, you you give your life up. However,
I think that all human beings are redeemable. I got
dudes that I grew up in the neighborhood with who
have taken people's lives. And I tell you, man, like
some of those individuals were core members and players in
the transformation you know, of the community from a war
(32:52):
zone to you know, um, I mean, violence still happens
in these neighborhoods, but it transformed the neighborhood, you know,
like some of these so called killers, like you know,
set in the room and made commitments to you know,
to cease fire. You know. So I know that that
there's good that can come from anyone and everyone, you know,
giving the opportunity, and so, you know, Terrell's death is
(33:17):
one of the reasons why I would say that I
doubled my effort and I labor heart to this day
because it's about ensuring that his death is not in
vain and that also that we can blaze a trail
instead of an example, you know, for his seats, you know,
and all of his nieces and nephews and stuff, you know,
who are coming behind him, right. Um. Yeah, So it's
(33:39):
been a really kind of interesting journey. Next month Terrell's
oldest daughter is graduating from high school. And I mean
it is you know. Uh. I always used to tell
Terrell that he was going to grow up and do
something great, and he was like, Daddy, what I'm gonna do.
I was like, I don't know it, but you go
do something great, you know. And and it's so profound
(34:03):
that in his death right, he produced two seeds, you know,
Devin and Heavenly you know. And so it's like divine
right in in Heavenly right, and you know, Devin just
turned eighteen in March, um graduated from high school the
same and Heavenly you know it, it's turning eighteen in September.
But um, it's like he incarnated, you know what I'm saying,
(34:25):
as a boy and a girl, you know, exactly right,
the Gemini twins, right, and they are so like kind
of like his spirit and energy. Like Devin looks exactly
like Terrell, you know, and Heavenly she is him, Like
she has all of his mannerisms and like everything she's
(34:46):
like she has it. She she has his spirit like
you know, and um, it's it's and has always had it.
I mean it's like every since she was a kid,
like I remember when he was seven years old and stuff.
He was always like girl crazy and stuff, and heavily
ever since she was a baby, she's always been boying crazy.
And it's it's just funny, like you know, to see
(35:08):
them like kind of become young adults and and to me,
you know, it's one of those gifts that keep giving.
And so I'm like, Sun, your death isn't in vain
because we're we're making just major impacts in terms of
addressing violence as well. So the you know, the survivor's
movement is very much a core part of this new
(35:29):
ecosystem of public safety that we're developing, right because if
we don't address victimization and harm through a public health
kind of approach and the public health lens, it gets
lost in translation in terms of the strategy that we
have to do around public safety. I mean, you know,
I know that we still live in a country where
(35:50):
you say public safety and people say police. But the
reality is that the police is only one aspect of
the public safety system. You know, you can't have public
safety without the public and I think that, you know,
the public execution of George Floyd became a real inflection
point and allowed people like to expand their imagination to
really reimagine a society where law enforcement is not this
(36:14):
uh you know, single ubiquitous um like kind of entity
that is the center point for public safety in our community.
I'm like, no law enforcement is to enforce laws. You know,
public safety is not just the you know, the absence
of violence and crime. You know what I'm saying in
terms of lawmaking. You know, public safety is also you
know the presence of well being in the infrastructure to
(36:37):
support victims and survivors in their respective healing journey. We
have to put those who are most vulnerable through violence
and crime at the center of our public safety strategy.
This has been the whole messaging and work you know,
for crime survivor for Safety and Justice. And so I
am I'm I'm so humbled man to be a founding
member you know of c S s J, but to
(36:58):
see how the organizations has has grown and evolved. I mean,
first under the leadership of our dear sister Shacure Diaz,
and then you know under Oswald Thomas, who is now
you know, our executive VP at the Aliance for Safety
and Injustice. You know, big ups to Oswald, you know,
who's the epitome of the Survivor's movement. You know what
I'm saying, Like that brother right there, man is one
(37:19):
of my personal heroes. Like straight up, what he's done
with his life is so profound, you know, being shot
but also recognizing that like even the person who shot him,
you know, was a victim as well. I mean, it
takes some real like kind of introspection to be able
to hold the complexity of those types of things. And
so I'm like, you know, always champion and my brother,
(37:43):
you know, because you know he's the future of the work. Yeah,
for sure. And we do want to shout out Oswald Thomas,
and we want to shout out Leonor as well, who
just at the Survivor Speaks California, she received a lifetime achieved. Yes, yes,
that was presented by the brother Oswald. And so definitely
(38:07):
we will be linking ways for you guys. Take gets
to know these you know, top players in the in
the movement. That's right. We gotta give people the flowers
while they alive. Like you know, Lenora Anderson is the
mother of CJ Reform straight up, you know, I know
a lot of folks have been working on criminal justice
reform for a long time. I mean many many years
before Lenora, you know, before she even came out right,
(38:29):
I mean, but she's been working in criminal justice reform
for a long time as well, like in the building.
But you know, folks like Dorsey none with with all
of us are none. You know, they championed some real
work around Band in the Box. But Lenora man Um,
it's so fit you know that she received this Lifetime
Achievement award because she is such a deeply committed, like
(38:50):
you know, as sister to this work. And so it's
been you know, the best team that I've ever worked with,
like straight up like Leonora Anderson, Robert Brooks, you know,
best folks on the planet. Yeah, we're going to take
a short break to hear from our sponsors. So one
(39:26):
of the things that constantly comes up in the work
is this thing about forgiveness. And I feel like, you
know your perspective here, you know, it's always very moving
and so can you can you speak to forgiveness? Yes?
The F word? You know UM recently one of the
(39:50):
organizers of the Forgiveness Project. I used to host UM
some of their conversations and dialogues on on forgiveness, and
forgiveness is also one of those initiatory like kind of
steps that one taking their life because you can't take
it lightly right to forgive is not for in many
cases the perpetrator. Forgiveness is a gift that you give
(40:13):
to yourself so that you can actually reclaim kind of
like your own psychic and etheric energy, you know, to
be present, right Like, So when Terrell was murdered, I
could have been totally consumed by the anger you know,
of him being murdered. And I was. I was angry
as ship you know, excuse my language. Uh, this is
(40:34):
a grown folks podcast, Okay, it's a healing podcast, and
so you know, we have to be able to release
all of the realness you know, from our spirits, so
please yes, So I was, I was really angry. And
at the same time, you know, I had you know,
you all at home still and relationships that you know,
(40:56):
you all were close, you know, um, you know, siblings
and everything, and it was a lot to have to
like negotiate and navigate and I needed to be present,
you know, for you all, as opposed to just you know,
being totally consumed with what had happened to Terrell, So
it was a balancing act, right, And so forgiveness is
a gift that you give to yourself so that you
(41:18):
can maintain like kind of um, your own psychic like
kind of ability to be present. Forgiveness is not for everybody.
I mean again, it's a it's an initiatory like kind
of step you have to go through a process in
order to discover for yourself, like you know, what are
you actually like kind of letting go of right, because
(41:39):
that's how I saw it. It's you know, forgiveness was
a releasing of something and an acceptance of something, you know,
So it was a gift exchange. And I felt like
the thing that I took on is that I was like,
I want to I mean, I want to continue to
love unconditionally and not feel like if I give my
(42:01):
love and somebody's harm that you know, it means now
and I have to kind of you know, um contract
you know, and and kind of real all of this
stuff in because of the fear of being hurt. Wow,
that's really profound because you're talking about, you know, the
ability to you know, remain open to life, you know,
(42:23):
to the ups and downs of life, And you know,
isn't that balance what well being is? And so when
you're talking about forgiveness, and you know, the folks that
are able to accept forgiveness on their healing journey, you're
talking about a reopening to life that happens. You know,
(42:45):
Thank you so much for sharing that. I also am
curious if you want to name some of the ways
that you heal mm hmmm, yeah. Like, first off, just
giving it up to spirit, right, because I considered myself
to be a spirit centered activist that you know, God
(43:06):
lives in my intuition and I trust my intuition emphatically,
Like it's the way that spirit speaks to me. And
so right now is it's it's Ramadan, you know, tomorrow
it is you know, so we're celebrating the end of Ramadan.
For thirty consecutive years, I've celebrated Ramadan most productive time
(43:26):
of year for me. It's a physical it's a physiological
like kind of cleanse and a core part of my practice,
you know, um in terms of my own healing, because
it slows everything down when you don't put those toxins
in your body. It's a real question of will, right,
because you know, when your stomach start telling you, like, yo,
(43:48):
put something in me. You know, you've been eating and
drinking all this time and down It's like it's a
real question to will power to not put anything in
your mouth during the day, you know. And so it's
so profound. I I love it. So Fasting is one
of my core practices. Um. I have a sitting practice,
(44:08):
you know as well, and that kind of ebbs and flows,
you know, sometimes I'm sitting more than than other times.
But I learned like meditation through my sister and one
of my very best friends, uh, you know, Angel Kiota Williams.
And at first I used to think that it was about,
you know, sitting with your legs folded and stuff, and
(44:29):
you're trying to ascend into the heaven and stuff, you know,
and be as long as possible. She was like, yo,
you know, meditation is about watching one's thoughts, you know,
and not reacting, you know. And uh, and so she
was like, it's about witnessing one's thoughts and processes and
(44:49):
and being able to then take that that witnessing, you know,
into the awake world. Right. And so when I sit,
you know, Uh, there's a ritual that I do in
order to get into the you know, into the trans
right like deep inhalations and exhalations, you know, like ten
or fifteen, and then you just slow down your breath
(45:10):
and then you know, like with each inhalation and exhalation,
you know, oxygen, bringing oxygen into the blood actually creates
images in the imagination, right, And so then I'm sitting
and I'm watching like my thoughts and sometimes you know,
the thoughts are so vivid that you want to just
jump up because you know they're like, you know, take
the you know, the ground beef out of refrigerator for
(45:33):
the spaghetti to night. You know what I'm saying, Like
you'd be ready to get up and go do it
right now, so we don't don't forget. But it's like
you you're like, okay, I remember that, you know. So
this is the thoughts that are just traveling. So, uh,
meditation has become um a core practice that I use
in order to maintain my balance. And then also you know,
(45:55):
I'm a spot junkie too. You know, no matter what
city I go, I'm finding out where the rein spots are.
You know, the Koreans have a profound theology around health.
So the Jim jimbang. You know, UM comes in a
bunch of different forms. And so every city I go to,
I'm going to to the spot where I practice hydrotherapy.
So I get in the hot pool, in the in
(46:16):
the cold pool, and I go back and forth, balances
the pH, moves heavy metals out of the body, you know, UM,
and just allows the body to relax more. Right. So
between you know, the the hydrotherapy, aroma therapy, you know,
I love sitting in the steam room. I make my
own like kind of little tinctures absolutely, you know. So
(46:38):
I'm doing lemon grass, you know, uh, I've been utilizing
lately UM now, and I do a soup because a
lot of the steam rooms are closed during the pandemic.
So I'll be doing this bath soup you know, with
like three full cups of epstin salt. And I do
this like every week, you know, at least once a week,
I take a bath, three full cups of epstin salt,
(46:59):
you know, rosemary, central oil, peppermint, lemon grass, and eucalyptus.
And I'll just sit in there for like, you know,
forty five minutes. And and that also kind of like
helps me to breathe and open up the pores. When
when you're breathing better, you're thinking better. Remember that, people,
that's right. And then the final pieces that you know,
(47:21):
just trying to eat you know, healthy food, you know,
and and keep some type of like kind of exercise routine. Um.
It's been hard lately, honestly, and I've been so busy
on the road traveling from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. But you know,
things are good. So yeah, I mean, thank you so
much for that. I mean, um, anybody listening to make
(47:44):
sure you write it down, you know, because it works,
that's right. And what I wanted to do before we
get out of here is UM for you to just
kind of tell the folks about the community UM Public
Safe d as the community based public safety collective. Yes, yes, yes,
(48:05):
please yes please, the community based public Safety Collective. Please yes.
So for a long time, you know, family, UM, we
we talk about like kind of community of onus intervention
right as we've called this word gang intervention, crisis intervention.
We called folks interrupters, credible messengers. Last year in March,
(48:28):
we convened about twenty key thought leaders from across the
country that do community of Honus intervention work, and we
defined ourselves as a movement, and so we defined the
work as well. And so we now call the work
community based public safety because we're like gang intervention, crisis
intervention workers, outreach workers, credible messengers. These are all components
(48:50):
of community based public safety. And community based public safety
essentially is a complementary strategy of the policing in which
you train residents as public safety professionals and conflict resolution, mediation,
de escalation strategies. They work through a trauma informed limbs
through a public health frame. Right, we hire non traditional
(49:10):
leaders ex. Gay members, ex convicts, X drug dealers. Reason
being is because of the public health frame. The public
health frame says that those who are in closest proximity
to the disease or to the violence should be equipped
with the skills, to tools and the resources to do
the intervention to prevention in the treatment. Right. And so
this is how they eradicated smallpox, you know, malaria um
(49:32):
And so essentially, if we understand violence as a disease,
you know, then this is the way that we can
actually have the greatest impact is by making sure that
those who are closest in proximity to the violence, have
the skills of tools and the resources to do the
intervention and prevention in the treatment right. And so the
Community Based Public Safety Collective is an outgrowth of our
(49:53):
organization UM, the newer Community Street Team so n CST.
We launched with Mayor Barack New Work as the city's
community based public safety strategy to complement law enforcement in
the Mayor's new public safety approach as a result of
our collective work in Newark over the past seven years UM,
and this is celebrated all across the media today that
(50:14):
we took new Work from a hundred and three murders
to fifty one, so we literally moved them from the
top ten most violent city list where they almost had
a covenant position for almost fifty consecutive years. This work
is totally driven by community of the staff. You know,
seventy two staff of n CST are residents of the
neighborhoods in which they served. It's under the leadership of
(50:34):
our dear brother, you know, Mayor rash J. Baraca, who's
a visionary leader. You know, if you're going to be
a politician, you're gonna be in politics, man, then be
rass Baraca, you know, be a Tom Haydon Um. Yeah,
because these individuals are um, they're they're really committed to
the work and they and they understand the public private
partnership that has to be forged in order to have impact,
(50:57):
you know, um in cities and on the ground. And
so because of the success that we've had on multiple
levels in in New Wark with with our community based
public Safety strategy, we launched a national organization to essentially
educate to advocate in the build capacity of community based
public safety organizations that are emerging in multiple cities across
the country. And so we do training and technical assistance,
(51:21):
capacity building, fund development, we do all of those things
for community intervention organizations are recent like huge success is
that the Collective as it's UM known, the Community Based
Public Safety Collective, we call it. The Collective is one
of the five national training and technical assistance partners that
the Biden administration has engaged to build capacity for the
(51:44):
White House Community Violence Intervention Collaborative. This is a sixteen
jurisdiction initiative UM eight million dollar investment from fourteen national
philanthropic organizations that's laying the foundation for the Biden Administration's
Community Vinus Intervention Initiative right, which is five point two
billion dollars over eight years to really lift up community
(52:04):
based solutions as a compliment to law enforcement. I mean,
back in June of last year, myself and the mayor,
amongst you know, many other activists and organizers who have
been doing community Vinus intervention work for decades, we all
set in the in the Rolls Guarden at the White
House and literally heard the President, the Vice President, the
Attorney General say that law enforcement is not the only
(52:26):
solution the public safety. I mean, this was, you know,
just a profound momentum. And I remember after you said that,
me and bar Rocket looked at each other from across
the way. I was like, we just had to ship
our head. And after what the Rocket was like, brother,
I didn't think I would ever hear those words come
out of a sitting president's mouth in our lifetime. Now,
(52:48):
I know a lot of folks is running around, you know,
my man Van Jones, who was who was my brother?
You know, um was on CNN yesterday, you know, for
the thirtieth anniversary of the civil unrest in Los Ange
lists and talking about how the Biden administration hasn't delivered
for black folks. And I'm like, no sitting president in
the history of this country has proposed a five point
(53:10):
two billion dollar investment in community VINUS intervention work. The
number one issue that is killing young black men and
black boys across this country CBR, community VIRNUS individual or
community based public safety is primarily headed up by black men,
you know. And so to me, this is a strategic
investment in black communities, you know what I'm saying. And
I'm like, you know, like I said, advantage of my brother.
(53:32):
I just was talking to him and chopping in the
whole hour just a couple of weeks ago, and I'm like, brother,
I disagree with your family, you know. I'm like, the
Biden administration has only been in office for two years,
you know, and the impact that they've made, you know,
during a pandemic has been profound. And I'm like, and
we don't give them enough credit. We don't give the
(53:54):
president enough credit. We don't give his cabinet enough credit.
You know, Julie Chats rod Veguez, you know who heads
up then the Governmental Affairs Ambassador, Susan Rice over at DPC,
you know, Tharren who heads up d o J. I'm like,
you know, gooped up, like y. Let me tell you, man,
it's like all of those who are listening out here
to this show for folks that are telling you that
(54:17):
the Biden administration is not on track and on point
in terms of their approach to supporting like kind of
the black community, specifically in communities of colors. I'm like,
don't listen to that stuff. There's a tremendous amount of opportunities.
Not only did he propose five point to billion that's
gonna come down because this is still in play even
though Bill beck Better is going through. It's it's change right.
(54:38):
He also asked the twenty six Federal Formula Programs to
address some of the regulatory issues internally to make sure
that community bonus intervention organizations are able to access federal dollars. Listen,
I get an opportunity to sit with federal agencies on
a monthly okay. And I'm like the people who head
up these agencies, I'm talking b J. A. Carlton More.
(54:59):
You know what I'm saying, Like, these folks get it,
you know, my man, Scott Patriots over at O J
J D P. Listen, they get it. And they bought in,
you know, and you can look right now, the federal
formula programs are all dropping you know. Um. We know
that we just passed the you know, the Omnibus bill.
The President put fifty million dollars into it for community
(55:20):
virus intervention work. The RFP is out now. Okay, So
for all of those folks that are talking about, like
you know that the administration is not moving, man, the
administration is moving as fast as it possibly could in
the in the bureaucratic system, because these things move slow. Right.
I'll close on this and say that I learned from
this native brother from Rapid City, South Dakota, my Man Lands,
(55:43):
who's on the city council there. He said that change
moves at the speed of trust. That's what he said.
That change moves at the speed of trust. And so
if we want to see more significant changes happen, you know,
by the administration, that happens amongst our community groups and
community based organization, amongst the common people, amongst the commons
(56:04):
on the ground, we gotta learn to trust more and
take a risk, a leap of faith, you know, honestly, um.
And it's scary, you know, but it speaks to something
that you know, I learned from my brother orlan Bishop
called necessary betrayal, right, is that sometimes you know, it's
necessary to be betrayed because the betrayal is not the end,
(56:26):
it's the beginning, you know, because it affords you an
opportunity to do a deep analysis and inquiry to the
circumstances that brought you to that place. It's an opportunity
to metamorphos, to give an idea about that experience so
that it actually serves you as opposed to working against you.
And so that there's something there's a gift in the wound,
you know what I'm saying. Or you know, uh, it's
(56:46):
always darkest before dawn. You know, in every tragedy there's
a gift, but we have to look for it, right,
And so that's what I would close and say, is
that there's something profound that's happening out here, and we
have a responsibility to work through our own traumas and
(57:07):
blockages that keeps us from access and our joy, you know. Yeah,
And so I'm grateful to be here on the show
with you or yeah, you know, because you're the future,
you know of everything that I'm laying the foundation for
you know, and so I'm so grateful, you know that
I get to have this dialogue and conversation like with you,
(57:29):
and we should do this more often, you know, we
should do this more often because I'm reminded of reverently
speaking when when moms when when my mom's came and
shared at the reverently speaking session at night, Oh my god,
I was like cleared up so many things for me,
you know, just in terms of process, right, because we
sometimes you know, we don't recognize the trauma you know
(57:53):
that our parents have worked through and how it's shaped
and informed their lives because they don't always get an
opportunity to tell their full story. But this is, this
is really beautiful and I appreciate it. I really appreciate
you coming and um blessing the mic and you know,
just laying out all the knowledge that you did, Like um,
I think folks might need to slow it down and
(58:15):
speed it up because there was so much in there.
And if you are someone who is leading the work
on the ground, make sure that you do follow up
and check out the funds and the resources that are
coming down because the responsibility is for us to pick
(58:35):
up the mantle. And you know, get those resources to
our people, you know. Don't get caught up in the politics,
you know, um, and don't get caught up in the
money either, because the money is a tool. The relationship
is the capital that's right, that's right, and the relationship
with each other, you know, that comes from being able
(58:56):
to share in resource. So thank you so much, all right.
If you would like to learn more about the work
of the Community Based Public Safety Collective, please visit CBPS
Collective dot org. And if you would like to learn
(59:18):
more about the Biden Harris Administration's unprecedented investment in community
violence interventions, you can find a fact sheet with the
rundown at white House dot gov. Thanks for tuning in.
(59:38):
Disclaimer My views, beliefs, and opinions on my own and
do not necessarily reflect the views of my guest, resource
organizations or sources. Shared last thing, every day we survived.
(01:00:00):
It is a new chance to see killing. Peace to
your journey, good people, A share h
Content warning. This episode will discuss a lot of heavy
topics such as sexual assault and homicide. Please be kind
to yourself, prepare yourself with before and or after care,
and remember if you are a loved one, it's going
through it. You can call the National Sexual Salt Hotline
(00:23):
at one hundred six five six hope, that's one hundred
six five six four six seven three. Or if you're grieving,
you can reach out to Compassionate Friends at one eight
seven seven zero zero one zero. Thank you. Join us
(00:51):
to explore the stories, policies, practices and ideas. This is
Survivors Oh yeah, welcome, good people. This is episode seven
of the Survivor's Hill podcast in which I sit down
(01:14):
with the Kila Sharells. And if you're thinking the name
sounds familiar, yes, this is my father. But also he
has put in over three decades of work to in
urban street violence. He is a celebrated peace activist, one
of the architects of the Los Angeles Peace Treaty that
(01:36):
was forged between the Crips and the Bloods, particularly in
the community of Watts, but that served as a model
for communities all across the nation and even internationally. Achaila
Sharrells is a renaissance man. Truly. He has been described
as a social enterprise entrepreneur and art curator, an advocate
against the death penalty, a criminal justice reformer, a strategist,
(02:00):
and a leader in the New Survivor's movement. He's the
only reason I'm here. But seriously, his work has catalyzed
double digit reductions and violence and communities like Newark, New Jersey,
where he has built out a community based public safety
strategy that is now being replicated in cities across the
(02:23):
nation with the investment of the Biden in Harris administration.
We have this conversation in the spring of and it's
truly one that you must tap into. Check it out. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.
I have the great pleasure to sit here with my
(02:46):
personal superhero, someone who has been the light of my life. Um,
and this is my father, Achila Sharell's I mean and
he has touched lives all across the community, all across
(03:07):
the state, all across the nation, and all across the world.
And so if you don't know about him, then sit down,
pull up your chair or wherever you are listening in
get into it, because this is some really good stuff.
And you should know this name, Akila cherrellse how are
(03:29):
you doing. I'm good, I'm good. Thanks so much all
you for having me on the show. Thanks for coming.
Oh my god, your schedule it's so crazy insane right now.
I know. I'm like I'd be sending friends of mine
to Dorene to schedule meetings and I'd be like, hey,
I'm sorry to put you on the schedule. I'm like,
(03:49):
my schedule is so crazy right now that I have
to have people to check in with doren or they'll
just get moved off. Like if it's not on my calendar,
it's not going to happen. Absolutely that. I mean, it's
so necessary because we're living in like the metavers and
the multiverse, and you know, you're literally like time traveling,
you know, all across the country, you know, different time
(04:13):
zones right every like every couple of days. I mean,
it's amazing. So the reason why you're here today to
talk with me is because I would like for you
to talk about, like, really the beginnings of this new
Survivor's movement, the movement that has catapulted all across the
(04:35):
nation and transformed the way that people identify when it
comes to being survivors of crime. It's transformed the way
that folks have um understood, you know, the intersection between
being a survivor of crime but also criminal justice reform.
You know, it's also transformed the way that we've talked
(04:58):
about healing and what it east to hill. We've seen
the organizations that you have helped to seed grow to
eleven thousand members in California alone, yes, ninety thousand members nationally.
Man Crime Survivors for Safety and Justice is now the
largest survivor network in the country. I mean it is,
(05:21):
you know, just unbelievable, like all praisons due to God, right, Yeah,
so it's a real blessing. Yeah. So I would like
for you just to kind of talk with us about
the beginnings of the movement. Well, I guess a lot
of the work started around CSSJ with Lenor Anderson, Robert Rooks,
A Dela Barajas Sat the body Guy. Um. I think myself,
(05:46):
Sudata and rob and Lenoir were the first kind of
cohort of Californias for Safety and Justice to start working
on expanding this whole idea of Crime Survivors for Safety
and Justice. Right, and one of the reasons why it
was important for us to do is because in California
there's always been a very strong and powerful victims rights movement. However,
(06:10):
when you said victim, it spoke to a specific you know,
group and population, Like most black folks identified victims as
you know, upper middle class white women who live in
suburbia who have been you know, the victims of of
of Hainia's violent acts. You know, um, sexual assault, you know,
primarily you know, domestic violence. But when you look at
(06:31):
you know, victimization across the state in California, Like, even
though black folks are only eight percent of the population,
we lead in every single category of victims of crime
in the state. Yet we don't identify as victims as
a as a community and as a culture because victims
has a it has a negative connotation in the community.
So we had to like create a new point of
(06:51):
entry for people to be able to access resources and
healing and recovery services as victims survivors you know, of
of trauma. And so we came up with this term
survivor because we were like survivor says that a person
has had an experience and conceivably they don't want it
to happen to anybody else, and that they're engaged in
(07:11):
their respective healing journey. You know, I love you know,
my sister Mattie Scott out of San Francisco. You know,
she says that we are turning our pain in the power,
you know. And so the Survivor's movement was essentially about advocacy.
It was about bringing black and brown people into this
conversation around victimization in a system that doesn't necessarily even
(07:32):
see black folks as human. Okay, what they say the
leading cause of of African American males between the ages
of fourteen and two gun violence. However, if you look
at critical service provision in community, they're very little focused
groups to help black men deal with trauma, to deal with, um,
you know, being harmed. It's you know, it's just been
(07:54):
like kind of few and falling between in terms of
service provision to support people in their in their respective
healing journey. And so we we launched Crime Survivors for
Safety and Justice as an advocacy group to create like
a real agenda around making sure that our voices are heard. Um.
We produced one of the first reports in the state
asking victims what they wanted because you know, people are
(08:15):
always running around talking about victims want this, victims want that,
but nobody never asked them. So we we contracted with
Vendor and Associates, which is one of the most respected,
you know, research groups in the state, bipartisans, So both
Republicans and Democrats utilize this group, and we discovered a lot,
you know, in that report. I mean, the first thing
is that we discovered that less than of crimes are
(08:37):
reported period, you know, in terms of people who are victimized,
less than the population even knew that Victims Camp and
Victims Services actually even existing, right, most black folks understand
Victims Camp, you know, our Victims Services as the funeral fund.
We think that, you know, the only thing that victims
compon the state paid for our funerals. And the reality
is is that it's not true. They paid for wage replacement.
(08:59):
They paid for you know, if you equipment is stolen
out of a car, when you know, somebody breaking your
house and still your equipment, they replace it. You know,
if you are you know, shot and you become incapacitated,
I mean, you know, they buy wheelchairs, they will retrofit
your house. I mean, all of these things are available
through victims camp. But because the way that the system
is organized and there's things called like contributing behavior that
(09:23):
was in the in the in the regulatory um language
in the States, it makes it difficult for a lot
of black and brown folks to be able to access dollars.
And the other huge thing barrier was that in most
states you got to go through the police department to
be deemed a victim. So the police report is actually
what qualifies you as a victim. That goes to the
prosecutor's office on the district attorney's office and then they
(09:46):
utilize that to determine whether or not you've been a victim.
Proudest day of my life was the passing of SP
five eight, you know, the Trauma Recovery Center bill UM
that was you know, uh t rcs were launched by
Dr Basilari Um out of San Francisco. TRC is a
down in some like forty two cities across the country.
Started in California with with eleven and twelve of them.
(10:07):
Top forty seven funded them in perpetuity, you know. Yeah,
So the TRC allows a person to self identify as
a victim, you know, and and start receiving services through
the TRC sixteen sessions immediately, it's profound. You know, I
operated t RC in Newark, New Jersey. This is our
second year of it, and you know, it's hard to
(10:28):
get black folks into mental health services and wellness services.
But when it's the all of the therapists or from
the neighborhoods you're serving, UM as well as your project director,
it's like those warm handoffs become easier to make happen.
And so to date, we've had over three hundred survivors
go through you know, our Trauma Recovery Center, and I
think that we have something like a like a like
(10:50):
graduation rate of people who have actually gone and completed
the sixteen sessions and some many have really signed up
for new ones. So we're getting we're getting help our
trauma now, UM, something that we just never did before.
So I'm excited about that, right And so can you
speak to what is possible when folks address the trauma
(11:12):
that has you know, gone so long unaddressed. Well, you know, UM,
yesterday and today we celebrated the thirty and anniversary of
the Peace Treaty, and when we talk about the peace treaty.
You know, it speaks to that there must there's a
war beforehand, right, And a lot of people when we
talk about the war that was happening in l A
(11:34):
and a lot of urban cities across the country, people
are like war like, it's not more. I'm like, no,
when I say wear, I mean war. Right, because in
l A County alone, three talking about twenty so called
gang related depths, not including those permanently maimed or incrocerated
for the rest of the life behind their participation. So
you have whole communities that are suffering from traumatic stress
(11:56):
dis sort of hyper vigilance and vicarious trauma with no
comprehensive wellness centers that that addressed, you know, the deep
harm that people have experienced in terms of you know,
healing and support and healing and recovery services, and so
most of the violence that we see happening in community
is a result of trauma unaddressed trauma. We we've allowed
(12:16):
trauma to ripple and fester um in the community. I mean,
you know, because the systemic racism and implicit bias, you know,
it goes all the way back to eugenics, you know,
basically right in which they would say that like like
black people's heads were tougher and and you know we
could be beat and stuff like just such weird stuff
(12:37):
like you know that that white folks that came up with,
you know, in order to justify harming us and uh,
perpetuating this system of enslavement, right because it was although
they took off the change, you know, there was a
psychological like kind of change that was put on on folks,
right and so um. But also there were laws so
(13:00):
many industries. But also it just kept us away from
the ability to really thrive, you know when we're talking
about laws against us, you know, getting fair housing. You know, um,
even if it was like backdoor, it was you know,
because there was Jim Crow and then and then it
was redlining, you know what I mean. There were always
(13:22):
these subtle ways that you know, we were imprisoned and
then there's mass incarceration in eighties and nineties, you know
that returned us back to like you know chains right. Well,
the war on drugs was essentially a war on on
black folks, in the war on the community, because in
open crisis, you know, was being addressed differently in white
(13:45):
a fluent neighborhoods our white neighborhoods period, and it addressed
differently in the fluent neighborhoods, right, but in most black communities,
in poor urban black communities, it was criminalized. And so
instead of seeking a mental health and a in a
public health solution to this opioid crisis that was raging
out of control in our neighborhood, they were seeking a
(14:05):
criminal legal solution, you know, and just basically locking people
for actually either possessing or using drugs. And and again
people use drugs in order to self medicate because they
couldn't access services. And so it's been really horrific. Like
you know, there's a systemic response to black harm, right,
it's created false narratives like you know, black on black crime,
(14:29):
right as if I mean, you know, black folks live
in community to man, we pay taxes just like everybody else.
I mean, hundreds of billions of dollars into the you know,
public safety system. Why are we responsible for our own safety?
You know? In these communities, it's like, you know, violence,
it's about proximity, right, and so people, you know, black
(14:49):
people hurt each other because they all live in the
same community together. Latino people hurt each other, White people
hurt each other, Asian people hurt each other. But yet
there's some I call it white supremacy idiation, you know
what I'm saying, there's some piece that permeates this whole
idea of black on black violence, you know, as if
we are the source of it. I'm like, no, this
was calculated, in um in orchestrated, you know, like food deserts.
(15:11):
I mean, like these things are organized. They're not by
happenstance and by chance, you know, much like the Peace
movement in ninety two, in which, you know, those who
were the victims of the violence in the community decided
to do something about it and and change the reality
of our community, very much like you know, the Survivor's movement.
You know, we we decided that no longer, you know what,
(15:34):
we allow them to control the narrative around our lives,
because you know, he is she who controls the narrative,
controls the game. And so you know, it's not uncommon
for right a black mother to have one child buried
in prison in one of the graveyard, you know, and
and in many cases, the number one preemptive calls for
murder in our community and self defense because you know,
(15:56):
people cannot depend upon the criminal legal system. Law enforcement
does not fond to black needs as they should, and
so unfortunately we've had to take justice you know, quote
unquote into our own hands. And when you do that,
you lose your victims status right and your ability to
be able to access services. So then from that arose
this whole false narrative around this idea of a pure victim.
(16:18):
You know that folks who have had any type of
contact with the criminal you know, justice system are somehow
not victims, you know, and and it's just ridiculous. You know.
We we did a lot of work with VOCA, with
the Victims of Crime Act, you know, in the federal
government to change some of the statues so that whether
you're incarcerated, like even when when you're in prison and
(16:39):
you get harmed, it's like you need to be seen
as a victim so that you can access services and resources.
It's just ridiculous that we're allowed to be harmed and
you know we can't access you know, healing and recovery services,
right because I mean when we think about like you know,
the leading document that that rules the land, it says
(17:01):
that we all have access to the pursuit of life,
liberty and happiness right and if our lives are in
constant danger right um, whether or not, whether or not
you have you know, made some mistake, committed some you know,
agregious act. You know you still have that right, you
(17:22):
still have that right to life. And for you not
to be able to access services, you know, to make
sure that you know you can continue to pursue happiness
and liberty, then I mean, then what are we doing?
You know, it becomes in it becomes a question of
whether or not, you know, is it constitutional? Is it
constitutional to deny people the right to heal from Harvor?
(17:48):
You know? And hold that thought. We'll be right back
after a word from our sponsors. I wanna I wanna
(18:15):
take us back a little bit because I know you've
touched on the peace treaty right and basically the war
that proceeded that. But can you tell us a little
bit about your role in your experience in these things,
like what brought you to these movements? Well, the thing
(18:40):
that brought me to this work has lived experience. I
mean I grew up in the joint down housing projects
and witnessed things that no child should be subject to.
You know, I've seen people shot to death, stabbed to death,
beat to death, and you know, it had a profound
effect on me just in terms of fitnessing that type
(19:00):
of UM, you know, violence and and you know it
desensitized me. And so, you know, growing up in the
projects and stuff, you you know, lose friends and family
members UM, you know, to violence and UM and violent crime,
and you know, you become like more and more desensitized
to witnessing these things happen. And so UM, as a
(19:21):
way of protecting myself, you know, you join the you know,
you joined the culture, you know. And so I participated
in UM in what many social justice activists called the
longest running war in history this country, which is urban
street gang wars. Right. But in nineteen eighty seven, I
was UM. I graduated from high school, inspired by my
sister Lan, the first in our family to go to
(19:43):
a four year university and graduate. And I went to
Calcate north Ridge. But when I got there, I had
a transformative experience. This was at the height of the
war in l A. You know, in the late eighties,
uh eight, you know, we was experiencing about eleven murders
in the city and other fifteen hundred in the county.
I mean, it was it was really horrific, and everybody,
like I said, was getting shot around me. And I
(20:05):
just didn't understand it, you know, and I just wanted
to be away from it. Um So going to cow
State Northridge, literally hiding on campus. Even when breaks came up,
like for Easter or you know, like kind of school
breaks and stuff, I would opt to stay on campus
and not go home because I was like, it's just
too much happening. And again I couldn't you know, articulate
(20:27):
what was happening. But you know, I met a woman
in school. You know, women always changes their lives, brothers,
So you know, um, I met this woman in in
in school who was a year ahead of me, gorgeous,
and you know I was, you know, we was the
trampion kids and the projects growing up and stuff. So
my self esteem was still shot. Even though I could
you know, dress it up. Um, I was still a clown,
(20:50):
you know. And in terms of my uh my feelings
and the most and you know, Lisa afforded me an
opportunity to expose was a deep secret in my personal
life that gave me the ability to access. My joy, I,
you know, was in trouble getting ready to get kicked
out of school, and I cheated on her and and
(21:13):
I burnt her right, and I had to tell her
the truth, you know. And the thing is, it wasn't
even that I like, I didn't have to tell her
the truth, because you know, I lied about it, of
course when she first confeted me about it. And it's
not funny, it's not it's you know, but I absolutely
lied about it because that's right, this was my own
you know, immaturity, right. But you know, as I lied
(21:35):
about it, I felt guilty about what I did to
this woman because she was so good to me and
supported me and looked out for me. And so at
the same time I had just discovered that I had
I was having my uh well, I got a phone
call from my um, from Judy, from your grandmother that
Alicia was pregnant with you. And I was like, oh
(21:55):
my god, you know, because I was eighteen years old
and essentially you were like my fourth child that was
being born, and I was on academic probation getting minted
to get kicked out of school. You know, this girl
that I was crazy about that, and you know, got busted.
Therefore I did what I did, you know, when I
was extremely stressed out and traumatized, I went and got
(22:18):
me a fat joint and some gin in the old seagrooms,
you know, bottle, and I got drunken high. And as
I was laying up in my bed like contemplating that
I was in trouble, I started reflecting on my childhood.
You know. So as kids, we didn't have a lot materially,
and so what we didn't have materially we made up
with our imagination. And so we used to talk about
this thing we called the story. And the story was
(22:40):
about how we would be walking down the street, we're
falling this hole, and we meet this ancient Chinese master.
You know, we we believed that anything that had anything
to do with wisdom, you know, had to be you know, Chinese,
because we love karate movies and stuff. Right, So the
Chinese master basically said that he was waiting for us.
He blessed us with special powers and gifts, and he
charged us to change the world. And we told the
(23:01):
story so much that it literally became my mantra. I
believe that I would grow up and do something great
one day because we told the story so much, and
so anytime I got in troubled, I would always reflect
on the story. And so this was one of those
moments in which it was a transformative moment actually, in
which I was like, you know, God, I'm supposed to
grow up and do something great. I'm like the story.
(23:22):
You know, you charged us with changing the world, and
now I need to know what my role is in this.
And I fell asleep, woke up feeling a little refreshed,
and decided to do the first noble thing in my life,
which was to tell this woman the truth. And so
I invited out to lunch and I'm sitting across the
table from her. Heart is beating out of my chest
and I didn't know what I was gonna even say.
(23:45):
You know, I was like, I'm sorry that it was
me as if she didn't know right, And she was
like why And I said, I don't know why. Maybe
it has something to do with what happened to me
as a kid, And she was like, well what happened?
And I shared with her that I was sexually abused
as a kid. Now this admission for me was transformative,
because I promised myself I would never tell anybody about
(24:05):
what happened to me, And I had so thoroughly suppressed
in my imagination that I convinced myself it didn't happen.
But clearly you could see it in all of my behaviors,
you know, the over promiscuity, the womanizing and objectifying. You
could see it play out in my behavior. And so
as I'm sitting there, I was transported back to that
place in the third grade when it first happened. And
(24:28):
you know, I realized that I really never questioned the
violence that I witnessed actually happened in the neighborhood because
it meant the question of violence that I experienced in
my own house. And I didn't have language for it,
you know, and I didn't have courage to confront the
perpetrator about it because I knew that, you know, he
would deny it. Right. But I had a professor, you know,
who was a mentor who grew up in Jordan Downs
who it came out of Wats that had me reading
(24:52):
James Baldwin the effort this the Things Not Seen, and
that book actually, along with the admission, became my transformative moment.
James Baldwin, The Evidences of Things Not seen this about
the Atlanta child murders, and it was about how Wayne
Williams was convicted of murders with no evidence, you know,
I mean, he was convicted of two other murders and
the others to this day are still unsolved. But James
(25:14):
baldwan theory was that the government thought they discovered a cancer,
I guess in the seamen of young black boys, and
they were utilizing them as guinea pigs. And he made
a case for it, you know, and it was really
really profound, Like you know, this book, I never saw
a black man like so articulate, that challenged like white
authority and challenged black leadership in a way that was
just so masterful. And it it gave me, It gave
(25:37):
me m language, you know, his his articulation, you know,
because I devoured everything James Baldwin after I read that book, Um,
and then I've read to Autobiography of Malcolm X, which
was my my story, you know, because I was born
and raised in the Nation of Islam, you know, my
pop's new Malcolm X, you know. And so this this
um was like the thing that kind of me on fire,
(26:01):
and I went back, you know, to the neighborhood, you know,
that summer armed with all of this new found like
um insight around the black experience because I had to
find somebody to blame for the harm and the trauma
that I was suffering, and I didn't have the uh,
the knowledge just yet on how to be accountable and
(26:22):
and perform alchemy on it for myself, right, I had
to project it out, and so you know, I became
a you know, a devout fundamentalist Muslim in addition to
a Black nationalist, you know, in which I was like, yo,
you know, white people are responsible for all of the
suffering that we're going through until I met you know,
Brother why Tining Them and Uh and Brother Kamal Hassan
(26:43):
and the brothers from the New African People's Movement who
really helped me to understand like, you know, the whole
concept of red, black and green, you know, inspiration by
what was it emotion, sustenance by reason and I thinking
of the black one the for but uh, it was
it was a profound like science that I learned from
(27:04):
these brothers that helped me to balance my own trauma
and actually start engaging my healing journey. So you know,
coming to terms with being a survivor of c s
A was kind of one of the first ways in
which I recognize that there's a gift in the wound.
You know that we're not our experiences. You know, the
things that have happened to us, the things that we
have perpetrated, they don't define who we are. They're they're
(27:26):
only informing who we become. Right And so I I
metamorphous to give an idea about this experience. You know
that I had as as being a survivor of c
s A, of childhood sexual abuse, and and I recognized
that I had a profound gift as a result of
the experience, because I don't know what life is like
without it. But I have this capacity. It's like clairvoyance, honestly,
(27:48):
like that I could see deeply and feel deeply into
things like folks who have had a similar experience. I
connect with like kind of easily. And I tell my
story as a way of creating access, because when we
expose the deep secrets and shames in our personal life,
we give others permission to do the same. And so
learning how to behold to hold space for the highest
(28:08):
possibilities and probabilities to emerge from a person's experience, like
not saying that somebody is good or bad, because both
of those a judgments, you know, But to hold someone
in the balance, you know, to be in a consistent
like kind of place of observation are you know, as
the Buddhists call it, to be present and detached right,
has been a practice now, you know for me, and
(28:31):
I felt like it carried me for a long like
kind of journey through the Peace Treaty, you know, through
the tenth anniversary, and then tragedy struck. You know, um,
my oldest son, Terrell, you know, home one winter break,
went to a party with some of his friends and
uh in Lodera Heights you know, fluent black neighborhood on
(28:51):
the west side of l a and was shot to
death at the party. I'm I'm no novice to violence,
whom witnessed it all my life, but nothing ever pairs
you for the loss of your child. And man, it's like, um,
that was um transformative, you know, to say the least, right,
(29:12):
this not being able to like, you know, feeling powerless
to be able to protect your own children. And this
was you know, sixteen years into the process of the
peace treaty, but it shifted something in me. I mean
I I was like, I don't want to do programmings.
(29:34):
I was like, I want to I want to drop
beneath the veil and get behind the conditionings to try
to understand, like what would cause a person to take
another human beings life? What happened in the personal life
of this young man that would cause him to take
another life because you don't, you don't kill somebody and
then the next day you're up skipping and singing and dancing.
(29:56):
I mean, you see your victim's face and dreams and
imaginings and flashbacks like so this kid who murdered Terrell,
his life is intrinsically connected to Terrell's for the rest
of it, and and him living somewhat of a balanced
life in this world. Will will hinge upon his ability
to reconcile what he did. You know, again, I don't
believe that people are the worst experiences, you know, And
(30:17):
there was a lot that I could have done right,
because the streets talked, you know, like even though seventeen
years later, Terrell's case is still a cold case, you know,
in the criminal legal system, but as you know, you know,
a couple of weeks after he was murdered, you know,
folks from from the neighborhood reached out and gave us
his name, address and telephone number of the perpetrator. And
(30:40):
you know, I had to talk not only Terrell's friends
but also my friends and family members down from harming
this kid, because I was like, killing this kid is
not going to bring Terreil bank. It's going to perpetuate
this whole eye for an eye tooth for a tooth
game that we've been playing that has left us all
blind and toothless. I'm like, we gotta, we gotta harness
the etheric energy of Terrell, and we gotta do something
(31:02):
different with it. And and I was like, so I
want to be an advocate, not to condone in any
way what this kid did, I mean, you know, and
to ask why, like and what happened in the personal
life of this kid doesn't condone what he did. It
actually kind of validate his humanity, you know, to say
(31:22):
that out of struggle, out of you know, trauma that comes,
you know, trauma begets trauma right are are as they say,
hurt people, hurt people, right, And so I hold space,
you know that that I'll meet this kid one day.
You know, my life is pretty serendipitous. So I'm sure
that he's out there watching. He's probably listening to this
show right now, you know. And uh and um, I
(31:45):
want to ask him, you know, when we connect, like
what happened in your personal life that calls you to
commit such a heineous violet act. If I get an
opportunity to meet his parents, I want to know like
kind of where did they lose connection or if they
ever had a connection, right then I want to work
with him, you know, to make sure that he gets
to proper counseling, therapy or whatever healing moved out of
it is necessary, um, so that he can live some
(32:08):
of a balanced life in this world, whether he's in
an institution or whether he's out on the street, because
he has something to give back. You know, death is
an initiation. Initiation is the deep analysis and inquiry into
circumstances that brought you to a particular place. And so
I mean I could say that, hey, you know, like
most folks would would probably you know, says that you
(32:29):
know that this kid accountability looks like the death penalty.
You take a life, you you give your life up. However,
I think that all human beings are redeemable. I got
dudes that I grew up in the neighborhood with who
have taken people's lives. And I tell you, man, like
some of those individuals were core members and players in
the transformation you know, of the community from a war
(32:52):
zone to you know, um, I mean, violence still happens
in these neighborhoods, but it transformed the neighborhood, you know,
like some of these so called killers, like you know,
set in the room and made commitments to you know,
to cease fire. You know. So I know that that
there's good that can come from anyone and everyone, you know,
giving the opportunity, and so, you know, Terrell's death is
(33:17):
one of the reasons why I would say that I
doubled my effort and I labor heart to this day
because it's about ensuring that his death is not in
vain and that also that we can blaze a trail
instead of an example, you know, for his seats, you know,
and all of his nieces and nephews and stuff, you know,
who are coming behind him, right. Um. Yeah, So it's
(33:39):
been a really kind of interesting journey. Next month Terrell's
oldest daughter is graduating from high school. And I mean
it is you know. Uh. I always used to tell
Terrell that he was going to grow up and do
something great, and he was like, Daddy, what I'm gonna do.
I was like, I don't know it, but you go
do something great, you know. And and it's so profound
(34:03):
that in his death right, he produced two seeds, you know,
Devin and Heavenly you know. And so it's like divine
right in in Heavenly right, and you know, Devin just
turned eighteen in March, um graduated from high school the
same and Heavenly you know it, it's turning eighteen in September.
But um, it's like he incarnated, you know what I'm saying,
(34:25):
as a boy and a girl, you know, exactly right,
the Gemini twins, right, and they are so like kind
of like his spirit and energy. Like Devin looks exactly
like Terrell, you know, and Heavenly she is him, Like
she has all of his mannerisms and like everything she's
(34:46):
like she has it. She she has his spirit like
you know, and um, it's it's and has always had it.
I mean it's like every since she was a kid,
like I remember when he was seven years old and stuff.
He was always like girl crazy and stuff, and heavily
ever since she was a baby, she's always been boying crazy.
And it's it's just funny, like you know, to see
(35:08):
them like kind of become young adults and and to me,
you know, it's one of those gifts that keep giving.
And so I'm like, Sun, your death isn't in vain
because we're we're making just major impacts in terms of
addressing violence as well. So the you know, the survivor's
movement is very much a core part of this new
(35:29):
ecosystem of public safety that we're developing, right because if
we don't address victimization and harm through a public health
kind of approach and the public health lens, it gets
lost in translation in terms of the strategy that we
have to do around public safety. I mean, you know,
I know that we still live in a country where
(35:50):
you say public safety and people say police. But the
reality is that the police is only one aspect of
the public safety system. You know, you can't have public
safety without the public and I think that, you know,
the public execution of George Floyd became a real inflection
point and allowed people like to expand their imagination to
really reimagine a society where law enforcement is not this
(36:14):
uh you know, single ubiquitous um like kind of entity
that is the center point for public safety in our community.
I'm like, no law enforcement is to enforce laws. You know,
public safety is not just the you know, the absence
of violence and crime. You know what I'm saying in
terms of lawmaking. You know, public safety is also you
know the presence of well being in the infrastructure to
(36:37):
support victims and survivors in their respective healing journey. We
have to put those who are most vulnerable through violence
and crime at the center of our public safety strategy.
This has been the whole messaging and work you know,
for crime survivor for Safety and Justice. And so I
am I'm I'm so humbled man to be a founding
member you know of c S s J, but to
(36:58):
see how the organizations has has grown and evolved. I mean,
first under the leadership of our dear sister Shacure Diaz,
and then you know under Oswald Thomas, who is now
you know, our executive VP at the Aliance for Safety
and Injustice. You know, big ups to Oswald, you know,
who's the epitome of the Survivor's movement. You know what
I'm saying, Like that brother right there, man is one
(37:19):
of my personal heroes. Like straight up, what he's done
with his life is so profound, you know, being shot
but also recognizing that like even the person who shot him,
you know, was a victim as well. I mean, it
takes some real like kind of introspection to be able
to hold the complexity of those types of things. And
so I'm like, you know, always champion and my brother,
(37:43):
you know, because you know he's the future of the work. Yeah,
for sure. And we do want to shout out Oswald Thomas,
and we want to shout out Leonor as well, who
just at the Survivor Speaks California, she received a lifetime achieved. Yes, yes,
that was presented by the brother Oswald. And so definitely
(38:07):
we will be linking ways for you guys. Take gets
to know these you know, top players in the in
the movement. That's right. We gotta give people the flowers
while they alive. Like you know, Lenora Anderson is the
mother of CJ Reform straight up, you know, I know
a lot of folks have been working on criminal justice
reform for a long time. I mean many many years
before Lenora, you know, before she even came out right,
(38:29):
I mean, but she's been working in criminal justice reform
for a long time as well, like in the building.
But you know, folks like Dorsey none with with all
of us are none. You know, they championed some real
work around Band in the Box. But Lenora man Um,
it's so fit you know that she received this Lifetime
Achievement award because she is such a deeply committed, like
(38:50):
you know, as sister to this work. And so it's
been you know, the best team that I've ever worked with,
like straight up like Leonora Anderson, Robert Brooks, you know,
best folks on the planet. Yeah, we're going to take
a short break to hear from our sponsors. So one
(39:26):
of the things that constantly comes up in the work
is this thing about forgiveness. And I feel like, you
know your perspective here, you know, it's always very moving
and so can you can you speak to forgiveness? Yes?
The F word? You know UM recently one of the
(39:50):
organizers of the Forgiveness Project. I used to host UM
some of their conversations and dialogues on on forgiveness, and
forgiveness is also one of those initiatory like kind of
steps that one taking their life because you can't take
it lightly right to forgive is not for in many
cases the perpetrator. Forgiveness is a gift that you give
(40:13):
to yourself so that you can actually reclaim kind of
like your own psychic and etheric energy, you know, to
be present, right Like, So when Terrell was murdered, I
could have been totally consumed by the anger you know,
of him being murdered. And I was. I was angry
as ship you know, excuse my language. Uh, this is
(40:34):
a grown folks podcast, Okay, it's a healing podcast, and
so you know, we have to be able to release
all of the realness you know, from our spirits, so
please yes, So I was, I was really angry. And
at the same time, you know, I had you know,
you all at home still and relationships that you know,
(40:56):
you all were close, you know, um, you know, siblings
and everything, and it was a lot to have to
like negotiate and navigate and I needed to be present,
you know, for you all, as opposed to just you know,
being totally consumed with what had happened to Terrell, So
it was a balancing act, right, And so forgiveness is
a gift that you give to yourself so that you
(41:18):
can maintain like kind of um, your own psychic like
kind of ability to be present. Forgiveness is not for everybody.
I mean again, it's a it's an initiatory like kind
of step you have to go through a process in
order to discover for yourself, like you know, what are
you actually like kind of letting go of right, because
(41:39):
that's how I saw it. It's you know, forgiveness was
a releasing of something and an acceptance of something, you know,
So it was a gift exchange. And I felt like
the thing that I took on is that I was like,
I want to I mean, I want to continue to
love unconditionally and not feel like if I give my
(42:01):
love and somebody's harm that you know, it means now
and I have to kind of you know, um contract
you know, and and kind of real all of this
stuff in because of the fear of being hurt. Wow,
that's really profound because you're talking about, you know, the
ability to you know, remain open to life, you know,
(42:23):
to the ups and downs of life, And you know,
isn't that balance what well being is? And so when
you're talking about forgiveness, and you know, the folks that
are able to accept forgiveness on their healing journey, you're
talking about a reopening to life that happens. You know,
(42:45):
Thank you so much for sharing that. I also am
curious if you want to name some of the ways
that you heal mm hmmm, yeah. Like, first off, just
giving it up to spirit, right, because I considered myself
to be a spirit centered activist that you know, God
(43:06):
lives in my intuition and I trust my intuition emphatically,
Like it's the way that spirit speaks to me. And
so right now is it's it's Ramadan, you know, tomorrow
it is you know, so we're celebrating the end of Ramadan.
For thirty consecutive years, I've celebrated Ramadan most productive time
(43:26):
of year for me. It's a physical it's a physiological
like kind of cleanse and a core part of my practice,
you know, um in terms of my own healing, because
it slows everything down when you don't put those toxins
in your body. It's a real question of will, right,
because you know, when your stomach start telling you, like, yo,
(43:48):
put something in me. You know, you've been eating and
drinking all this time and down It's like it's a
real question to will power to not put anything in
your mouth during the day, you know. And so it's
so profound. I I love it. So Fasting is one
of my core practices. Um. I have a sitting practice,
(44:08):
you know as well, and that kind of ebbs and flows,
you know, sometimes I'm sitting more than than other times.
But I learned like meditation through my sister and one
of my very best friends, uh, you know, Angel Kiota Williams.
And at first I used to think that it was about,
you know, sitting with your legs folded and stuff, and
(44:29):
you're trying to ascend into the heaven and stuff, you know,
and be as long as possible. She was like, yo,
you know, meditation is about watching one's thoughts, you know,
and not reacting, you know. And uh, and so she
was like, it's about witnessing one's thoughts and processes and
(44:49):
and being able to then take that that witnessing, you know,
into the awake world. Right. And so when I sit,
you know, Uh, there's a ritual that I do in
order to get into the you know, into the trans
right like deep inhalations and exhalations, you know, like ten
or fifteen, and then you just slow down your breath
(45:10):
and then you know, like with each inhalation and exhalation,
you know, oxygen, bringing oxygen into the blood actually creates
images in the imagination, right, And so then I'm sitting
and I'm watching like my thoughts and sometimes you know,
the thoughts are so vivid that you want to just
jump up because you know they're like, you know, take
the you know, the ground beef out of refrigerator for
(45:33):
the spaghetti to night. You know what I'm saying, Like
you'd be ready to get up and go do it
right now, so we don't don't forget. But it's like
you you're like, okay, I remember that, you know. So
this is the thoughts that are just traveling. So, uh,
meditation has become um a core practice that I use
in order to maintain my balance. And then also you know,
(45:55):
I'm a spot junkie too. You know, no matter what
city I go, I'm finding out where the rein spots are.
You know, the Koreans have a profound theology around health.
So the Jim jimbang. You know, UM comes in a
bunch of different forms. And so every city I go to,
I'm going to to the spot where I practice hydrotherapy.
So I get in the hot pool, in the in
(46:16):
the cold pool, and I go back and forth, balances
the pH, moves heavy metals out of the body, you know, UM,
and just allows the body to relax more. Right. So
between you know, the the hydrotherapy, aroma therapy, you know,
I love sitting in the steam room. I make my
own like kind of little tinctures absolutely, you know. So
(46:38):
I'm doing lemon grass, you know, uh, I've been utilizing
lately UM now, and I do a soup because a
lot of the steam rooms are closed during the pandemic.
So I'll be doing this bath soup you know, with
like three full cups of epstin salt. And I do
this like every week, you know, at least once a week,
I take a bath, three full cups of epstin salt,
(46:59):
you know, rosemary, central oil, peppermint, lemon grass, and eucalyptus.
And I'll just sit in there for like, you know,
forty five minutes. And and that also kind of like
helps me to breathe and open up the pores. When
when you're breathing better, you're thinking better. Remember that, people,
that's right. And then the final pieces that you know,
(47:21):
just trying to eat you know, healthy food, you know,
and and keep some type of like kind of exercise routine. Um.
It's been hard lately, honestly, and I've been so busy
on the road traveling from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. But you know,
things are good. So yeah, I mean, thank you so
much for that. I mean, um, anybody listening to make
(47:44):
sure you write it down, you know, because it works,
that's right. And what I wanted to do before we
get out of here is UM for you to just
kind of tell the folks about the community UM Public
Safe d as the community based public safety collective. Yes, yes, yes,
(48:05):
please yes please, the community based public Safety Collective. Please yes.
So for a long time, you know, family, UM, we
we talk about like kind of community of onus intervention
right as we've called this word gang intervention, crisis intervention.
We called folks interrupters, credible messengers. Last year in March,
(48:28):
we convened about twenty key thought leaders from across the
country that do community of Honus intervention work, and we
defined ourselves as a movement, and so we defined the
work as well. And so we now call the work
community based public safety because we're like gang intervention, crisis
intervention workers, outreach workers, credible messengers. These are all components
(48:50):
of community based public safety. And community based public safety
essentially is a complementary strategy of the policing in which
you train residents as public safety professionals and conflict resolution, mediation,
de escalation strategies. They work through a trauma informed limbs
through a public health frame. Right, we hire non traditional
(49:10):
leaders ex. Gay members, ex convicts, X drug dealers. Reason
being is because of the public health frame. The public
health frame says that those who are in closest proximity
to the disease or to the violence should be equipped
with the skills, to tools and the resources to do
the intervention to prevention in the treatment. Right. And so
this is how they eradicated smallpox, you know, malaria um
(49:32):
And so essentially, if we understand violence as a disease,
you know, then this is the way that we can
actually have the greatest impact is by making sure that
those who are closest in proximity to the violence, have
the skills of tools and the resources to do the
intervention and prevention in the treatment right. And so the
Community Based Public Safety Collective is an outgrowth of our
(49:53):
organization UM, the newer Community Street Team so n CST.
We launched with Mayor Barack New Work as the city's
community based public safety strategy to complement law enforcement in
the Mayor's new public safety approach as a result of
our collective work in Newark over the past seven years UM,
and this is celebrated all across the media today that
(50:14):
we took new Work from a hundred and three murders
to fifty one, so we literally moved them from the
top ten most violent city list where they almost had
a covenant position for almost fifty consecutive years. This work
is totally driven by community of the staff. You know,
seventy two staff of n CST are residents of the
neighborhoods in which they served. It's under the leadership of
(50:34):
our dear brother, you know, Mayor rash J. Baraca, who's
a visionary leader. You know, if you're going to be
a politician, you're gonna be in politics, man, then be
rass Baraca, you know, be a Tom Haydon Um. Yeah,
because these individuals are um, they're they're really committed to
the work and they and they understand the public private
partnership that has to be forged in order to have impact,
(50:57):
you know, um in cities and on the ground. And
so because of the success that we've had on multiple
levels in in New Wark with with our community based
public Safety strategy, we launched a national organization to essentially
educate to advocate in the build capacity of community based
public safety organizations that are emerging in multiple cities across
the country. And so we do training and technical assistance,
(51:21):
capacity building, fund development, we do all of those things
for community intervention organizations are recent like huge success is
that the Collective as it's UM known, the Community Based
Public Safety Collective, we call it. The Collective is one
of the five national training and technical assistance partners that
the Biden administration has engaged to build capacity for the
(51:44):
White House Community Violence Intervention Collaborative. This is a sixteen
jurisdiction initiative UM eight million dollar investment from fourteen national
philanthropic organizations that's laying the foundation for the Biden Administration's
Community Vinus Intervention Initiative right, which is five point two
billion dollars over eight years to really lift up community
(52:04):
based solutions as a compliment to law enforcement. I mean,
back in June of last year, myself and the mayor,
amongst you know, many other activists and organizers who have
been doing community Vinus intervention work for decades, we all
set in the in the Rolls Guarden at the White
House and literally heard the President, the Vice President, the
Attorney General say that law enforcement is not the only
(52:26):
solution the public safety. I mean, this was, you know,
just a profound momentum. And I remember after you said that,
me and bar Rocket looked at each other from across
the way. I was like, we just had to ship
our head. And after what the Rocket was like, brother,
I didn't think I would ever hear those words come
out of a sitting president's mouth in our lifetime. Now,
(52:48):
I know a lot of folks is running around, you know,
my man Van Jones, who was who was my brother?
You know, um was on CNN yesterday, you know, for
the thirtieth anniversary of the civil unrest in Los Ange
lists and talking about how the Biden administration hasn't delivered
for black folks. And I'm like, no sitting president in
the history of this country has proposed a five point
(53:10):
two billion dollar investment in community VINUS intervention work. The
number one issue that is killing young black men and
black boys across this country CBR, community VIRNUS individual or
community based public safety is primarily headed up by black men,
you know. And so to me, this is a strategic
investment in black communities, you know what I'm saying. And
I'm like, you know, like I said, advantage of my brother.
(53:32):
I just was talking to him and chopping in the
whole hour just a couple of weeks ago, and I'm like, brother,
I disagree with your family, you know. I'm like, the
Biden administration has only been in office for two years,
you know, and the impact that they've made, you know,
during a pandemic has been profound. And I'm like, and
we don't give them enough credit. We don't give the
(53:54):
president enough credit. We don't give his cabinet enough credit.
You know, Julie Chats rod Veguez, you know who heads
up then the Governmental Affairs Ambassador, Susan Rice over at DPC,
you know, Tharren who heads up d o J. I'm like,
you know, gooped up, like y. Let me tell you, man,
it's like all of those who are listening out here
to this show for folks that are telling you that
(54:17):
the Biden administration is not on track and on point
in terms of their approach to supporting like kind of
the black community, specifically in communities of colors. I'm like,
don't listen to that stuff. There's a tremendous amount of opportunities.
Not only did he propose five point to billion that's
gonna come down because this is still in play even
though Bill beck Better is going through. It's it's change right.
(54:38):
He also asked the twenty six Federal Formula Programs to
address some of the regulatory issues internally to make sure
that community bonus intervention organizations are able to access federal dollars. Listen,
I get an opportunity to sit with federal agencies on
a monthly okay. And I'm like the people who head
up these agencies, I'm talking b J. A. Carlton More.
(54:59):
You know what I'm saying, Like, these folks get it,
you know, my man, Scott Patriots over at O J
J D P. Listen, they get it. And they bought in,
you know, and you can look right now, the federal
formula programs are all dropping you know. Um. We know
that we just passed the you know, the Omnibus bill.
The President put fifty million dollars into it for community
(55:20):
virus intervention work. The RFP is out now. Okay, So
for all of those folks that are talking about, like
you know that the administration is not moving, man, the
administration is moving as fast as it possibly could in
the in the bureaucratic system, because these things move slow. Right.
I'll close on this and say that I learned from
this native brother from Rapid City, South Dakota, my Man Lands,
(55:43):
who's on the city council there. He said that change
moves at the speed of trust. That's what he said.
That change moves at the speed of trust. And so
if we want to see more significant changes happen, you know,
by the administration, that happens amongst our community groups and
community based organization, amongst the common people, amongst the commons
(56:04):
on the ground, we gotta learn to trust more and
take a risk, a leap of faith, you know, honestly, um.
And it's scary, you know, but it speaks to something
that you know, I learned from my brother orlan Bishop
called necessary betrayal, right, is that sometimes you know, it's
necessary to be betrayed because the betrayal is not the end,
(56:26):
it's the beginning, you know, because it affords you an
opportunity to do a deep analysis and inquiry to the
circumstances that brought you to that place. It's an opportunity
to metamorphos, to give an idea about that experience so
that it actually serves you as opposed to working against you.
And so that there's something there's a gift in the wound,
you know what I'm saying. Or you know, uh, it's
(56:46):
always darkest before dawn. You know, in every tragedy there's
a gift, but we have to look for it, right,
And so that's what I would close and say, is
that there's something profound that's happening out here, and we
have a responsibility to work through our own traumas and
(57:07):
blockages that keeps us from access and our joy, you know. Yeah,
And so I'm grateful to be here on the show
with you or yeah, you know, because you're the future,
you know of everything that I'm laying the foundation for
you know, and so I'm so grateful, you know that
I get to have this dialogue and conversation like with you,
(57:29):
and we should do this more often, you know, we
should do this more often because I'm reminded of reverently
speaking when when moms when when my mom's came and
shared at the reverently speaking session at night, Oh my god,
I was like cleared up so many things for me,
you know, just in terms of process, right, because we
sometimes you know, we don't recognize the trauma you know
(57:53):
that our parents have worked through and how it's shaped
and informed their lives because they don't always get an
opportunity to tell their full story. But this is, this
is really beautiful and I appreciate it. I really appreciate
you coming and um blessing the mic and you know,
just laying out all the knowledge that you did, Like um,
I think folks might need to slow it down and
(58:15):
speed it up because there was so much in there.
And if you are someone who is leading the work
on the ground, make sure that you do follow up
and check out the funds and the resources that are
coming down because the responsibility is for us to pick
(58:35):
up the mantle. And you know, get those resources to
our people, you know. Don't get caught up in the politics,
you know, um, and don't get caught up in the
money either, because the money is a tool. The relationship
is the capital that's right, that's right, and the relationship
with each other, you know, that comes from being able
(58:56):
to share in resource. So thank you so much, all right.
If you would like to learn more about the work
of the Community Based Public Safety Collective, please visit CBPS
Collective dot org. And if you would like to learn
(59:18):
more about the Biden Harris Administration's unprecedented investment in community
violence interventions, you can find a fact sheet with the
rundown at white House dot gov. Thanks for tuning in.
(59:38):
Disclaimer My views, beliefs, and opinions on my own and
do not necessarily reflect the views of my guest, resource
organizations or sources. Shared last thing, every day we survived.
(01:00:00):
It is a new chance to see killing. Peace to
your journey, good people, A share h
Host
Oya L. Sherrills
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