June 14, 2017 • 38 mins
In the series premiere of Sworn, host Philip Holloway explores the unsolved murders of Russell and Shirley Dermond.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Place your left hand on the vampible and raise your
right hand and repeat after me. I solemnly swear the
jury trying it attended not scilly this weekend in Ferguson
and around the country. It makes no sense. If it
doesn't fit, you must have quit. Judge, you are the
last line of reason in this case. Every one of
(00:32):
us took out all the hypothesis and we're sworn to
uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is sworn.
I'm your host, Philip Holloway. The George Supreme Court said
many years ago that the office of sheriff carries with
it the duty. I'm the shaff with the duty to
(00:54):
protect this community. M I've spent most of my life
inside the criminal justice system, in one capacity or another,
and along the way I've learned some truths. In this
podcast will take you inside the system to bring you
(01:17):
these truths, the good, the bad, and yes, even the
uncomfortable truths. Practically everybody in the system is sworn to
one oath or another. I've lost town of all the
oaths I've taken and the things I've been sworn to do.
But imagine you're a sheriff. An elected sheriff, you're sworn
(01:38):
to not only uphold the law, but to get justice,
justice and answers, answers for your community, justice for victims.
But despite your very best efforts, justice eludes you. Answers
elude you. In this episode, we explore this issue in
(02:00):
the context of the Lake o'coni Murphy. I live in Atlanta,
and I remember very well the day back in May
when some really bad news broke an elderly retired couple,
Russell and Shirley Derman, had been murdered. The details of
(02:26):
it were odd enough that this couple living in this
gated community, a wealthy couple um with no apparent enemies
or anything, that have been brutally murdered. And then once
you looked more into it and found out more details,
it just became more and more of a mystery. People
were just mystified. How did anyone, how did this happen?
How did anyone even get inside the community? You know,
(02:48):
who would want to kill them? I mean they were
a retired couple. I mean they were in their eighties.
I think there was just a lot of speculation going on.
Um a neighbors in the town. I mean this is
a small community. You know, it was such a bizarre
crime that people's minds kind of you know, wanted to
the extreme as far as trying to figure out what
(03:10):
may have been the cause. This is Christian Boon, a
reporter for the Atlanta Journal and Constitution. For the past
three years, Christian has covered this case heavily, keeping it
in the public side as much as he possibly could. Inevitably,
with no new leads to follow, the case has grown
cold and it's media coverage has become scarce. But to Christian,
(03:35):
this case has never really left his mind. So I
reached out to him because I wanted to know how
this case compared in terms of its unusual nous to
all the others that he's covered over the years. I
put it at the top because there's no you know,
there seems to be no explanation for it, and there's
just so many things about the actual murderer that don't
(03:55):
add up. You know, when you're trying to find an
explanation or or any kind of motive, you keep hitting
the dead end because was it robbery? Will know nothing
was stolen, you know, and then this the cleanliness of
the murder at least parts of it, is it professional, Well,
it seems that way, but then there's other parts of
it would seem, you know, kind of haphazard. It seems
like someone was trying to send a message, but to
(04:16):
whom and for what for what reason? Is is what
we still don't know. Rails Plantation is very exclusive community.
It's a lot of retirees, a lot of people. I mean,
you've gotta have money to live there. But it's sort
of nestled into a small town of Eatonton. There's kind
of surrounds it or is nearby. It's very quiet. I mean,
(04:36):
if you little very little crime, there barely any any
crime at all happens. I mean there's crime, but I
mean you don't have a lot of murders or certainly
and you know a lot of bole crime and I
mean a lot of times. You know, we'll cover these things.
We will have a good idea what happened or at
least some sense of who is at least suspected. In
this one, there was no there was really nowhere to start.
And part of this place to the fact that no
(04:58):
one knew what had happened. I mean, there were no
ransom note or anything like that. And that led a
lot of I mean, I don't know if panics the
right word, but a lot of people were, you know,
JUSTI probably scared. As you know, these people are obviously
gonna lose. What are they after? I mean, what is
their motive here? I mean, are these just random thrill
killers or are they you know, something else. This case
(05:19):
was different in that the sheriff. Sheriff Howard Sills is
about as media friendly as you can get. Like he
throws it all out there. He'll tell you if I
don't have anything, I don't have anything. He's unique in
that aspect. The problem is it's sort of hard to
advance the story because really the coverage that's been going
on after I guess about the first six months has
been anniversary stories. It's been three years. We still don't
(05:42):
know what happened. I mean, I've written a few in
the in the interim where there has been some you know,
some there was a crime in New York that was
similar and maybe this is there can be some connection made.
But reporting on substantial leads or or anything that may
you know, advanced the story, advanced the investigation itself. It's
really been hard. Somebody knows something. Somebody saw something, maybe
(06:05):
not I've known what they saw. But you also have
to keep in mind too, You know, there are a
lot of crimes that go and solved, and the more
time passes to the less likely this is to get solved,
keeping it in the public's attention as much as you can,
it's sort of the best bet to finally get an answer.
(06:28):
The Putnam County Sheriff's Office is trying to find a
missing woman whose husband was found murdered this morning. They're
trying to locate eight seven year old Shirley Dermott. They
believe that she might be the victim of a kidnapping.
Investigators were called to the Great Waters community on Lake
o'coney and Putnam County this morning. They were called after
friends went in to check on the Dermot's and found
eighty eight year old Russell Derman dead. Shirley Dermott is
(06:52):
five ft two inches tall and one dred and forty
eight pounds, with gray hair and blue eyes. They believe
that she was possibly abducted. They think that the crime
happened between Friday and Sunday. If you've got any information,
you can call the Putnam County Sheriff's office at seven
oh six eight five eight five well May, the six
(07:14):
eight year old Russell Derman was found beheaded in the
garage of his home on Lake o'coney. Russell Derman's head
was nowhere to be found, and his wife, eight seven
year old Shirley Derman, she also was nowhere to be found.
(07:34):
A massive search for Shirley Derman was underway, operating under
the pretense that she may have been abducted. Hope dwindled
for Shirley's safe return as the days went on, and
on May six, ten days after police discovered Russell Derman's
decapitated body in the garage of his own home, two
(07:54):
fishermen found the body of Shirley Derman floating in the
water of Lake o'coney, about six miles away from the
Dermans residents. A fisherman reportedly found the body in Lake
yo Coney, several miles from her home in the Great
Waters community. Law enforcement was now officially working a double
homicide case. This was not your ordinary double homicide case.
(08:20):
This was an act of savagery. The Dermans lived in
the upscale community of Great Waters on Lake o Coney
in central Georgia, about seventy miles east of Atlanta. The
surrounding area contains a unique blend of indigenous residents ranging
from lower to middle class, and an affluent population of
(08:43):
retirees and vacation homes for the wealthy. Lake o Coney
spans nearly thirty miles across three different counties, with three
hundred and seventy four miles of shoreline and a surface
area of over eighteen thousand acres. The was built originally
by Georgia Power in nineteen seventy nine, and the lake
(09:04):
now serves as a popular getaway destination for tourists. The
lake has nearly a dozen boat marinas and several high
end golf courses. The Dermans lived in Putnam County, a
quiet and reserved community of only about twenty thousand residents.
In such a remote place and what's regarded as a
safe and relatively affluent area, how does a wealthy retired
(09:27):
couple become the victims of a brutal and savage double murder.
That's a question that Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills would
really like to do. Howard Sills was and still is
in charge of this case. He's worked it tirelessly for
the past three years, since the day they received the
nine one one call. The Sheriff Sills has a track
(09:53):
record that's well more than impressive. He solved every homicide
case he's worked on in the past elarty years except
this one. You've got to wonder what does it feel
like to have such a successful career in law enforcement,
solving crimes through your community, and then to become part
(10:13):
of one of the biggest unsolved murder cases in the
history of the entire state of Georgia. I called up
Sheriff Still to ask him that very question. His answer
find out after a quick word from our sponsors, Howard
(10:35):
Seal Riff Still. This is Philip Holloway from the Sworn Podcast.
Thank you very much for talking with us today. Thanks
for John Sheriff. If we can just start talking a
little bit about you. How long have you been the
sheriff there in Putnam County? Uh see, twenty years and
almost five months. Yeah, this is still a small community. Well,
(11:00):
if I was fully staffs, I might have about seventy personnel.
But I've always hand all the homicides personally. And I
say that, I mean I directed the investigation. I don't
mean I worked the revenge of it myself. I'm not
saying that at all. But but yet I still do that,
and I hope we're still small enough that I can
do that, and I've had I'm not trying to brag
(11:23):
when I'm sure they told you I've been fairly successful
over the years too well. And I'm sure that if
there's a case that you're unsuccessful with that has to
I thank you personally. Yeah, it is the most troubling
case of my career, which has been a very long career,
and it's quite candle, is kind of embarrassing to some extent,
(11:48):
and it's you question your you know, I find myself
question myself all the time. What if I not done
or what did I do wrong? Or you know that
type of thing. When this is really the only homicide
case I've ever been responsible that I was not successful?
What can you tell us about the Dermans? The Germans?
(12:12):
I did not know the Germans. And I don't get
me wrong, I probably know more people in Puttingam Canny
and any other individual Puttingham Canty. But they had retired
here after having a successful chain of fast food restaurants
and Metro Atlanta, had retired here in two thousand and
(12:35):
four and built a home in the Great Waters section
the Rentalds Plantation. Rentalds Plantation is in both Green and
Puttingham Canties, but the part that in Puttingham is called
Great Waters and had retired and has lived here quite
decently for a decade. West German was eight and as
(13:00):
its German was seven. They had three adult children, one
who lived in Nashville who lived still in Nashville, North Carolina, daughter,
one son that lives over near Panama City in Florida,
and another son that lives in the Jacksonville, Florida area.
What exactly did your office respond to that morning in May?
(13:26):
We had a call the bodies whether it reginally came
out on the radio, the bodies have been multiple bodies
had been found in a house and in Great Waters.
And I actually was the second unit on the scene.
When I say second union, I mean the first unit
was at the yards in front of me Um and uh,
(13:50):
what had happened? The Kentucky Derby was on May the third,
which is the day we think the crimes occurred. And uh,
the Germans were supposed to go to a Kentucky Derby party.
During the derby there within uh the Reynolds community within
Great Waters itself and all their friends that you spent
(14:13):
them to be there, and they didn't show up. Uh,
but I mean nobody was alarmed at that juncture. Uh.
And then on Sunday and Monday, their friends that called them,
nobody answered the phone. So finally on Tuesday morning, uh,
some of their friends went over. This was not the
next door neighbor, but within the gated Great Waters area
(14:36):
finally went over to the house to see make sure
everything was okay. So if and uh finance entering the house, well,
not immediately, but after walking through the house a while,
they discovered Mr Dermo's body in the garage and us
the body had been decapitated, and uh obviously this alarmed them.
(15:03):
Just say the least, where was Mr Dermot's head. We
don't know whoever did this took it with. It was
a very clean cut down near the uh just right
about the collar area. I don't mean to say surgical,
but it was very clean, very clean cut with a
knife of some sort that uh, just right about the collar.
(15:27):
If you had a T shirt own and used the
T shirts collar as a line. I don't mean it's
that exact now, but you know it was fairly smooth
cut and completely removed, and the body was lying on
the floor in the back of the garage. The people
who found the body, they opened the door to the garage.
(15:48):
From that vantage point, you couldn't even see the body.
He actually had to go to some steps to see it.
And that's basically all we saw at that home. There
was no sign of for century. There was a house
with this section of the few odd stands in the kitchen.
The bed was unmade in the bedroom. Other than that,
the house was an immaculate condition, almost like stage, you know,
(16:12):
a real estate company or something. Almost absolutely no signs
were struggled, Absolutely no signs of forced entry at all.
They did have an alarm system that was functional, but
obviously it was not home at the time. We didn't
know where Mrs Derman was for almost fifteen days. Obviously,
with Miss Dermont not being there we had even though
(16:36):
their ages and background I learned as quickly as I
could at that time, would not have indicated that Miss
Derman would have been a perpetrator. While we didn't rule
out that she possibly was not involved in the murder.
We also because of all the factors of their age
and things like that, we initially weren't the case, seeming
(16:56):
that she had been abducted. But her body surfaced about
five and a half miles away down Lake o'cony near
the dam. Actually some fishermen saw it. We would have
found it that day. At that point in time, I
still I still had deputies and patrol boats patrolling the lake.
We were still looking for the possibility of evidence connected
(17:19):
with this, and the body floated up. Mrs Derman was
hit two or more times in the head with the
blunt objects of some sort that penetrated their skull two
times at least, maybe more than two. Uh. Could have
been a hammer, could have been a stick, could have
been you know, something like that. And Mr Derman, well,
Mr Burman died as a result of his head being removed,
(17:42):
There's no doubt about that. But he wasn't alive when
he was removed. If you've ever seen him our Tira womb,
you trust me, I severed artery. Unfortunately, if you ever
been in the situation, and I have on more than
one occasion, ah, it leaves a lot of blood and
a lot of different places and that did not exist.
(18:04):
But you could tell by the wound itself whether a
person was dead. When when you die, your heart is
not pumping anymore, so the blood blood doesn't flow like that.
The blood that was present in the garage was blood
that drained out of the corass cavity. I guess it's
proper term. You know where the head was onto the floor.
The pathologists, as the results of examining the body can
(18:26):
tell you absolutely for certain that he was dead when
the head was kind of Did he have any other
wounds besides the decapitation. There was a slight wound on
on one of the hands, probably a defensive wound of
some sort. We had a little bit of trouble here
and there in this case. And uh, I hate to
(18:46):
get you know, not much of a TV man, but
you know it's program forty eight hours. Having worked many, many,
many murders in my career many besides that, saying in
forty eight hours is very true, true thing. We are
relatively certain they were killed on Saturday, and we know
for a fact we didn't get the call to ten
(19:08):
o'clock on Tuesday morning. That's one factor. We have absolutely
no witnesses that saw anything, and immediate next to our
neighbor was in Asia. At the time, they lived at
the end of a cult de sac. There was no
house on the other side, and these and I want
you to understand that I don't know what the percentage is,
(19:31):
but I would say a third of the homes, even
though these are me and not homes and things like that,
a third of these homes are not full time resid
decapitation murders are hell, they're not five or six in
this country in a year, and in the last three
years there's only been one where the head was removed
and not at the scene besides this one. And at
(19:54):
least the best of our investigative abilities, that's what we've
learned of. And listen, we've thing on top of the
pretty pretty close. But that's that's a rarity in itself.
So I knew the minute I saw that that that
this was going to be a different case. That seems
almost like somebody took it as a trophy. It does,
(20:17):
but professionally and I can't articulate at this point in time,
I wanted to think so, but I don't think that's
what happened. I think that if whoever took it took
it to prevent us from finding evidence in it. You
know a lot of these things, decapitations and things like that,
they're sending out a message their position in the body.
(20:38):
You know, they you know that that wasn't the case.
The body is just kind of laying there, you know,
where it dropped. You know, they did not want anybody
to find this body for a while. Whoever did it,
They've taken some towels and stuff and kind of made
a little damn to keep the blood from running out
up under the garage door where it would have been
(20:59):
seen from the out side. So they didn't want anybody
to know. And obviously they who ever did this, I
certainly thought that we would never find miss German. That
takes away from the professional aspect of somebody a professional killer.
Because of professional killer, a lot of the things would
have been different, but they would have known that body
would have still been able to come up to Is
(21:21):
it possible that the head contained evidence in the nature
of maybe a bullet absolutely could have contained DNA. That
could have been some sort of scuffle, you know, I mean,
I'm sure you've been like me, You've been in a
fist fight before, and it didn't like on television, we
hit somebody's head with your hand, usually you will get
it cut. Your blood may end up on there too,
(21:43):
you know. And I thought, I think recently the Grinstead
case that took twelve years before somebody made a call
and identified to people that I'm sure that the g
b I and other law force nat season were involved
in that investigation of everything in the world that could
was my understanding. You know that these people that they
(22:04):
arrested weren't even on the radar initially. And uh, I
think that's what I'm gonna have to have here. I'm
confident more than one personal and involved in this, and
what I need is that I need that same kind
of phone Carl. Those of you who followed our sister
(22:34):
podcast up and vanished in the case of Terah Grinstead,
know that in every cold case, time is your worst enemy.
As the years go by and no new information surfaces,
the likelihood of ever solving the case becomes more and
more slim every day. But as Sheriff still says, all
it takes is that one phone call, that one piece
(22:57):
to this puzzle that can completely change the trajectory of
the investigation. Somebody out there knows something, They know what
happened to the Dermans, and one phone call, just one
could lead to the arrest and potentially conviction of the
person or persons responsible for this act of savagery. To
(23:19):
get that phone call, that one piece of valuable information,
oftentimes you've got to shake the trees, and you've got
to keep the case from going any colder and keep
it alive in the media. So what can he do
to get this case moving again? Well, I caught up
with an old friend of mine named John Dawes. John
(23:40):
investigates cold cases for a living, and he's been doing
it for a very long time, and is it just
so happens. He's very familiar with the Lake oh Cooney murders.
I've been involved in cold case work even in my
active career with the cop Coining Police Department. I had
been there for a long time and started pulling out
(24:00):
cold cases in two thousand nine and I actually brought
one to a town arrest pretty quick. And then when
I retired from the Copcunt Police Department in two thousand
and thirteen, I was contacted by the current District Attorney,
Vick Reynolds he had an idea to start a cold
case unit that would work out of the District Attorney's office.
A little bit different from your average cold case unit.
(24:20):
We're not embedded in one agency. We can actually assist
all seven agencies inside Cobb County. So uh, he asked
me if I would consider running that for him. I
told him I would be glad to do that. So
I started doing uh cold case solely in February two
thousand and fourteen. A case becomes cold when it's sat
for twelve months. Uh. That's the typical definition for a
(24:42):
cold cases is twelve months with no activity and no
forward movement towards the goal of identifying a suspect and
bringing it to prosecution. But the first thing that I
want to look at is the evidence, to make sure
that it's still held and it's been properly protect and
there's a good chain of custody on it, and I
(25:03):
want to see what's available because of you know, technology
grows daily and we found that we can do a
lot of things with evidence that's been sitting for years
and years that couldn't be tested. The other things that
you can do is is old school detective work. Maybe
not so much in a year, but over the course
of some years, witnesses parties to the incident itself sometimes
(25:26):
have a change of heart and a change of mind,
change their lifestyle a little bit, and they're more willing
to talk truth about the case than they were when
it occurred. Tell us a little bit about what an
investigator who finds themselves at a dead end might feel
when they feel like they just can't bring justice to
(25:48):
a victims family and they can't provide answers to the community.
It's literally sickening. First of all, if you're what I
call a real homicide detective, you live that case, you
eat it, breathe that, you sleep it. It's uh you
become a family member in your contacted by that family.
I have three cases from my active law enforcement preretirement
(26:11):
days that were unsolved, and one of them is is
now twenty two years old as of a few weeks ago,
and I still hear from that family and they're glad
that I'm that I'm running the cold case unit. I
still am looking at it. But it's a it's a
sick feeling that you've initially, I think when you get
to a year mark where you haven't solved it. You
(26:33):
you are confident that you have done everything that you
can do, but as the years go on, you begin
to question yourself. You begin to look at things and say, well,
maybe if I had done this, or if I had
done this differently. So it causes a lot of unrest.
It it loses sleep, headaches, high blood pressure, UH, family problems.
It's UH. It's very, very difficult for a homicide detective
(26:57):
to accept that that you haven't found the slip up
that the bag guy made. Let's assume you have a
case that there's not a lot of forensic evidence in
the sense of DNA. Maybe you've got some blood spatter
and things like that that might tell you physically how
something happened, but doesn't necessarily point to where would you
(27:19):
go next? Who would you start looking at first? On
a case like that, you automatically go to family, and
that's a part of the victimology. You hope that the victimology,
the background of the victims, tells you something uh to
give you a direction to head in um talking about
criminal history, backgrounds, financial backgrounds, investment backgrounds, business owner backgrounds, partnerships, associations,
(27:43):
there are a lot of things that you can glean
from interviewing family and doing your background searches. The technology
that's available today is overwhelmingly wonderful. On a small percentage
of cases, it's a great assistant. But it all goes
back to old school detective work, beating on the doors
(28:03):
and knocking through the bushes trying to find answers. Uh
So I would go first to victimology from the crime scene.
There's a percentage of people out there who, through their
own selfish motives, bring injustice, and they for their own
selfish reasons, they'll take the life of another. So what
is the motive for murdering these two old people? Is
(28:27):
it financial gain for someone? Is it repayment of a
debt to someone? Somebody has a motive that's close knit
in that group. My first guest not knowing in the
case anymore than I do. These people lived in a
nice house on a nice piece of property that they
obviously had either good financial means or a tremendous amount
of debt. In this case, Mr Derman's head was removed
(28:52):
after he died. Does that surprise you? That's a message
if his identity is easily known because his body is there.
I don't know whether or not his head remained on
the scene near his body or was removed, But some
people would think, well, that way, his dental records can't
(29:14):
be checked if the head has gone, but his identity
identity can be established by their means. So I think
that a post mortem decapitation separating the head is a
message to who would find the body. Any number of
things are are possibilities, whether it was to deter identification UM,
which doesn't seem likely with a post mortem decapitation, if
(29:37):
that's the facts of the case. Ballistics is a potential possibility,
the exchange of touch DNA is A is a potential possibility.
But I had to look more at probability, and I
think the likely probability is the shock factor for the
person who finds that body. In terms of this case
(29:58):
or in cold cases in general, When all the rocks
that you have to look under have been looked under
and you've left no stone that you're aware of unturned,
what can you do? That's when you you turn to
other people, other agencies to keep having a different set
of eyes look at it. And there are any number
(30:22):
of veteran detectives with agencies all over the place. One
of the ways that we've formed the unit that I
have working for me and my my people are all
volunteering their time. But we've got a person who's pretty
much an expert in crime scene documentation. We've got someone
who's an expert in interviews and interrogations. We have someone
(30:43):
who's uh kind of an expert in report writing. We
have we have a narcotics professional, investigation professionals. So we
have a lot of different people who bring a different
aspect to each and every case that we open up.
So my suggestion when you reach that point that you
have gone through it and gone through it and gone
(31:04):
through it, and you're satisfied that you've looked at everything,
that's when you need a complete fresh set of eyes
to truly understand this case and its complexity. You need
case files. You need access to those case files. And
(31:24):
in the state of Georgia, the open records law states
that usually you can't have it. Law enforcement tends to
keep it to themselves if there's an open investigation. As
a former police officer, I can tell you that oftentimes
pride will get in your way. It's your job to
assure that the cases get solved. So you withhold certain
(31:45):
information to give yourself an investigative edge. For example, sometimes
investigators know that there are certain things that only the
criminal could possibly know, so they'll never release that. But
sometimes releasing information can generate interest, and generating interest could
generate that one phone call that could be so desperately needed.
(32:07):
But what if you still just can't solve it, and
you can't solve it for years? Are you doing more
harm by keeping these case files from the public? What
if they the public has the answer? Every law enforcement
agency and every officer. Quite frankly, they're different. And Sheriff
Howard Sills himself, the elected sheriff, is still in charge
(32:29):
of this case. George's open records laws don't require Shriff
sALS to keep anything to himself. He could publish it
all for the first time in the three years that
this case has been pending. Sheriff sALS has agreed to
meet with the Sworn podcast and open up his case
file in the Lake o Conei murders. So we arranged
(32:51):
to meet at his office, and I decided to bring
along a good friend of mine and probably of yours,
Payne Lindsay from up and Vanished. Yeah, okay, Pain, they
don't cant see him. It's kind of weird, you know,
(33:20):
right now here, this close now to where this awful
murders who plays this makes me wonder what we're gonna
find when we get out here. You know, the sheriff
was real inviting on the phone, Pain, and he told us,
you know, he's basically gonna open up his file to us.
That's so different than your experience with up in Vanish
(33:41):
with the police file. Oh, it's definitely. I mean, I
would love to have the case file and character instance
because I don't know what we're gonna get into when
we get out here. I really don't know what to expect.
But when the lead investigator, who happens to be the
county Sheriff's has come out here and look at my file,
that's just something I can't I can't turn down that opportunity.
(34:12):
I'm Philip Halloway, I'm here to see Sheriff Sells. He's
expecting me, Yes, Philip Halloway, yesterday. Hey, how are you
going to follow? How you doing? George Lived? What I've
got is I've got a power point in Fellow. I
(34:34):
don't want to show you all pictures of everything. It
was frustrating more than anything else. Um, you've got two
horrific murders here of the elderly people that occurred in
my county and I haven't been able to uh figure
out who did it yet. And three years is a
long time. The George Supreme Court said many years ago
(34:58):
at the office of Share carries with it the duty
to preserve the peace, protect the lives, person's property, health,
and morals of the people. Now that kind of saysn't
that's your duty. I'm not some hired city police officer
that has the authority to do something. I'm not a
(35:19):
state patrolman that has the authority to do something on
public roadways. I'm the share with the duty to protect
this community. This is the Derman residence on Caroline Drive
and the Great Waters section of Reynolds Plantation here in
Putnam County out on Lake o'coney. We've used this with
(35:43):
other law enforcement agencies, only this has never been shown
to the public. The garage was a little bit of
a lower level, and so when the people who found them,
when they first opened that door, that's what they saw,
which is nothing. You see the two cars and you
see the garage doors closed. The cars look very clean.
(36:05):
It's a hell of a lot cleaner than my garage
is in my house. When the man he found Mr
Drmin's body, when he saw that, he walks on down
and as you will see, this is what you see.
Oh my, this is I just I'm speechless. When I
(36:25):
walked back there and I saw that body there, and
then I didn't see the head. I was scared that
I was gonna be sitting here three years later not
knowing who did this. Next time on Sworn, the professional
killer will come in your house with a twenty two
or twenty two man and shoots you, hit and lead.
(36:48):
They're not gonna cut your damn yet. Get to hear
exclusive details from the crime scene and a new lead
that share Sells is still working on that may provide
the key to solving the Lake o'coni murders. Sworn is
(37:14):
produced by Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. Story production and sound
design by Payne Lindsay. Executive producers Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay.
And if you have it yet, please check out our
sister podcast, Up and Vantaged that follows the investigation into
the disappearance of Georgia high school teacher and beauty queen
Tera Grinstead Up and Vantaged is available now on Apple Podcasts.
(37:37):
Sworn is mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. If you're
in the market for podcast production, go to Resonate Recordings
dot com to get your first episode produced for free.
I'd like to do a very special thank you to
Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills, and to John Dawes, and
to Christian Boone, and last but not least, I want
to thank you the listeners for making Sworn the number
(38:01):
one podcast on iTunes before it was officially released. If
you haven't already, please head over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate,
and review Sworn, and make sure you check us out
online at sworn podcast dot com and follow us on
social media at sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram. And
you can follow me your host, Philip Holloway at phil
(38:22):
holloway e s Q on Twitter. See shot
Place your left hand on the vampible and raise your
right hand and repeat after me. I solemnly swear the
jury trying it attended not scilly this weekend in Ferguson
and around the country. It makes no sense. If it
doesn't fit, you must have quit. Judge, you are the
last line of reason in this case. Every one of
(00:32):
us took out all the hypothesis and we're sworn to
uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is sworn.
I'm your host, Philip Holloway. The George Supreme Court said
many years ago that the office of sheriff carries with
it the duty. I'm the shaff with the duty to
(00:54):
protect this community. M I've spent most of my life
inside the criminal justice system, in one capacity or another,
and along the way I've learned some truths. In this
podcast will take you inside the system to bring you
(01:17):
these truths, the good, the bad, and yes, even the
uncomfortable truths. Practically everybody in the system is sworn to
one oath or another. I've lost town of all the
oaths I've taken and the things I've been sworn to do.
But imagine you're a sheriff. An elected sheriff, you're sworn
(01:38):
to not only uphold the law, but to get justice,
justice and answers, answers for your community, justice for victims.
But despite your very best efforts, justice eludes you. Answers
elude you. In this episode, we explore this issue in
(02:00):
the context of the Lake o'coni Murphy. I live in Atlanta,
and I remember very well the day back in May
when some really bad news broke an elderly retired couple,
Russell and Shirley Derman, had been murdered. The details of
(02:26):
it were odd enough that this couple living in this
gated community, a wealthy couple um with no apparent enemies
or anything, that have been brutally murdered. And then once
you looked more into it and found out more details,
it just became more and more of a mystery. People
were just mystified. How did anyone, how did this happen?
How did anyone even get inside the community? You know,
(02:48):
who would want to kill them? I mean they were
a retired couple. I mean they were in their eighties.
I think there was just a lot of speculation going on.
Um a neighbors in the town. I mean this is
a small community. You know, it was such a bizarre
crime that people's minds kind of you know, wanted to
the extreme as far as trying to figure out what
(03:10):
may have been the cause. This is Christian Boon, a
reporter for the Atlanta Journal and Constitution. For the past
three years, Christian has covered this case heavily, keeping it
in the public side as much as he possibly could. Inevitably,
with no new leads to follow, the case has grown
cold and it's media coverage has become scarce. But to Christian,
(03:35):
this case has never really left his mind. So I
reached out to him because I wanted to know how
this case compared in terms of its unusual nous to
all the others that he's covered over the years. I
put it at the top because there's no you know,
there seems to be no explanation for it, and there's
just so many things about the actual murderer that don't
(03:55):
add up. You know, when you're trying to find an
explanation or or any kind of motive, you keep hitting
the dead end because was it robbery? Will know nothing
was stolen, you know, and then this the cleanliness of
the murder at least parts of it, is it professional, Well,
it seems that way, but then there's other parts of
it would seem, you know, kind of haphazard. It seems
like someone was trying to send a message, but to
(04:16):
whom and for what for what reason? Is is what
we still don't know. Rails Plantation is very exclusive community.
It's a lot of retirees, a lot of people. I mean,
you've gotta have money to live there. But it's sort
of nestled into a small town of Eatonton. There's kind
of surrounds it or is nearby. It's very quiet. I mean,
(04:36):
if you little very little crime, there barely any any
crime at all happens. I mean there's crime, but I
mean you don't have a lot of murders or certainly
and you know a lot of bole crime and I
mean a lot of times. You know, we'll cover these things.
We will have a good idea what happened or at
least some sense of who is at least suspected. In
this one, there was no there was really nowhere to start.
And part of this place to the fact that no
(04:58):
one knew what had happened. I mean, there were no
ransom note or anything like that. And that led a
lot of I mean, I don't know if panics the
right word, but a lot of people were, you know,
JUSTI probably scared. As you know, these people are obviously
gonna lose. What are they after? I mean, what is
their motive here? I mean, are these just random thrill
killers or are they you know, something else. This case
(05:19):
was different in that the sheriff. Sheriff Howard Sills is
about as media friendly as you can get. Like he
throws it all out there. He'll tell you if I
don't have anything, I don't have anything. He's unique in
that aspect. The problem is it's sort of hard to
advance the story because really the coverage that's been going
on after I guess about the first six months has
been anniversary stories. It's been three years. We still don't
(05:42):
know what happened. I mean, I've written a few in
the in the interim where there has been some you know,
some there was a crime in New York that was
similar and maybe this is there can be some connection made.
But reporting on substantial leads or or anything that may
you know, advanced the story, advanced the investigation itself. It's
really been hard. Somebody knows something. Somebody saw something, maybe
(06:05):
not I've known what they saw. But you also have
to keep in mind too, You know, there are a
lot of crimes that go and solved, and the more
time passes to the less likely this is to get solved,
keeping it in the public's attention as much as you can,
it's sort of the best bet to finally get an answer.
(06:28):
The Putnam County Sheriff's Office is trying to find a
missing woman whose husband was found murdered this morning. They're
trying to locate eight seven year old Shirley Dermott. They
believe that she might be the victim of a kidnapping.
Investigators were called to the Great Waters community on Lake
o'coney and Putnam County this morning. They were called after
friends went in to check on the Dermot's and found
eighty eight year old Russell Derman dead. Shirley Dermott is
(06:52):
five ft two inches tall and one dred and forty
eight pounds, with gray hair and blue eyes. They believe
that she was possibly abducted. They think that the crime
happened between Friday and Sunday. If you've got any information,
you can call the Putnam County Sheriff's office at seven
oh six eight five eight five well May, the six
(07:14):
eight year old Russell Derman was found beheaded in the
garage of his home on Lake o'coney. Russell Derman's head
was nowhere to be found, and his wife, eight seven
year old Shirley Derman, she also was nowhere to be found.
(07:34):
A massive search for Shirley Derman was underway, operating under
the pretense that she may have been abducted. Hope dwindled
for Shirley's safe return as the days went on, and
on May six, ten days after police discovered Russell Derman's
decapitated body in the garage of his own home, two
(07:54):
fishermen found the body of Shirley Derman floating in the
water of Lake o'coney, about six miles away from the
Dermans residents. A fisherman reportedly found the body in Lake
yo Coney, several miles from her home in the Great
Waters community. Law enforcement was now officially working a double
homicide case. This was not your ordinary double homicide case.
(08:20):
This was an act of savagery. The Dermans lived in
the upscale community of Great Waters on Lake o Coney
in central Georgia, about seventy miles east of Atlanta. The
surrounding area contains a unique blend of indigenous residents ranging
from lower to middle class, and an affluent population of
(08:43):
retirees and vacation homes for the wealthy. Lake o Coney
spans nearly thirty miles across three different counties, with three
hundred and seventy four miles of shoreline and a surface
area of over eighteen thousand acres. The was built originally
by Georgia Power in nineteen seventy nine, and the lake
(09:04):
now serves as a popular getaway destination for tourists. The
lake has nearly a dozen boat marinas and several high
end golf courses. The Dermans lived in Putnam County, a
quiet and reserved community of only about twenty thousand residents.
In such a remote place and what's regarded as a
safe and relatively affluent area, how does a wealthy retired
(09:27):
couple become the victims of a brutal and savage double murder.
That's a question that Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills would
really like to do. Howard Sills was and still is
in charge of this case. He's worked it tirelessly for
the past three years, since the day they received the
nine one one call. The Sheriff Sills has a track
(09:53):
record that's well more than impressive. He solved every homicide
case he's worked on in the past elarty years except
this one. You've got to wonder what does it feel
like to have such a successful career in law enforcement,
solving crimes through your community, and then to become part
(10:13):
of one of the biggest unsolved murder cases in the
history of the entire state of Georgia. I called up
Sheriff Still to ask him that very question. His answer
find out after a quick word from our sponsors, Howard
(10:35):
Seal Riff Still. This is Philip Holloway from the Sworn Podcast.
Thank you very much for talking with us today. Thanks
for John Sheriff. If we can just start talking a
little bit about you. How long have you been the
sheriff there in Putnam County? Uh see, twenty years and
almost five months. Yeah, this is still a small community. Well,
(11:00):
if I was fully staffs, I might have about seventy personnel.
But I've always hand all the homicides personally. And I
say that, I mean I directed the investigation. I don't
mean I worked the revenge of it myself. I'm not
saying that at all. But but yet I still do that,
and I hope we're still small enough that I can
do that, and I've had I'm not trying to brag
(11:23):
when I'm sure they told you I've been fairly successful
over the years too well. And I'm sure that if
there's a case that you're unsuccessful with that has to
I thank you personally. Yeah, it is the most troubling
case of my career, which has been a very long career,
and it's quite candle, is kind of embarrassing to some extent,
(11:48):
and it's you question your you know, I find myself
question myself all the time. What if I not done
or what did I do wrong? Or you know that
type of thing. When this is really the only homicide
case I've ever been responsible that I was not successful?
What can you tell us about the Dermans? The Germans?
(12:12):
I did not know the Germans. And I don't get
me wrong, I probably know more people in Puttingam Canny
and any other individual Puttingham Canty. But they had retired
here after having a successful chain of fast food restaurants
and Metro Atlanta, had retired here in two thousand and
(12:35):
four and built a home in the Great Waters section
the Rentalds Plantation. Rentalds Plantation is in both Green and
Puttingham Canties, but the part that in Puttingham is called
Great Waters and had retired and has lived here quite
decently for a decade. West German was eight and as
(13:00):
its German was seven. They had three adult children, one
who lived in Nashville who lived still in Nashville, North Carolina, daughter,
one son that lives over near Panama City in Florida,
and another son that lives in the Jacksonville, Florida area.
What exactly did your office respond to that morning in May?
(13:26):
We had a call the bodies whether it reginally came
out on the radio, the bodies have been multiple bodies
had been found in a house and in Great Waters.
And I actually was the second unit on the scene.
When I say second union, I mean the first unit
was at the yards in front of me Um and uh,
(13:50):
what had happened? The Kentucky Derby was on May the third,
which is the day we think the crimes occurred. And uh,
the Germans were supposed to go to a Kentucky Derby party.
During the derby there within uh the Reynolds community within
Great Waters itself and all their friends that you spent
(14:13):
them to be there, and they didn't show up. Uh,
but I mean nobody was alarmed at that juncture. Uh.
And then on Sunday and Monday, their friends that called them,
nobody answered the phone. So finally on Tuesday morning, uh,
some of their friends went over. This was not the
next door neighbor, but within the gated Great Waters area
(14:36):
finally went over to the house to see make sure
everything was okay. So if and uh finance entering the house, well,
not immediately, but after walking through the house a while,
they discovered Mr Dermo's body in the garage and us
the body had been decapitated, and uh obviously this alarmed them.
(15:03):
Just say the least, where was Mr Dermot's head. We
don't know whoever did this took it with. It was
a very clean cut down near the uh just right
about the collar area. I don't mean to say surgical,
but it was very clean, very clean cut with a
knife of some sort that uh, just right about the collar.
(15:27):
If you had a T shirt own and used the
T shirts collar as a line. I don't mean it's
that exact now, but you know it was fairly smooth
cut and completely removed, and the body was lying on
the floor in the back of the garage. The people
who found the body, they opened the door to the garage.
(15:48):
From that vantage point, you couldn't even see the body.
He actually had to go to some steps to see it.
And that's basically all we saw at that home. There
was no sign of for century. There was a house
with this section of the few odd stands in the kitchen.
The bed was unmade in the bedroom. Other than that,
the house was an immaculate condition, almost like stage, you know,
(16:12):
a real estate company or something. Almost absolutely no signs
were struggled, Absolutely no signs of forced entry at all.
They did have an alarm system that was functional, but
obviously it was not home at the time. We didn't
know where Mrs Derman was for almost fifteen days. Obviously,
with Miss Dermont not being there we had even though
(16:36):
their ages and background I learned as quickly as I
could at that time, would not have indicated that Miss
Derman would have been a perpetrator. While we didn't rule
out that she possibly was not involved in the murder.
We also because of all the factors of their age
and things like that, we initially weren't the case, seeming
(16:56):
that she had been abducted. But her body surfaced about
five and a half miles away down Lake o'cony near
the dam. Actually some fishermen saw it. We would have
found it that day. At that point in time, I
still I still had deputies and patrol boats patrolling the lake.
We were still looking for the possibility of evidence connected
(17:19):
with this, and the body floated up. Mrs Derman was
hit two or more times in the head with the
blunt objects of some sort that penetrated their skull two
times at least, maybe more than two. Uh. Could have
been a hammer, could have been a stick, could have
been you know, something like that. And Mr Derman, well,
Mr Burman died as a result of his head being removed,
(17:42):
There's no doubt about that. But he wasn't alive when
he was removed. If you've ever seen him our Tira womb,
you trust me, I severed artery. Unfortunately, if you ever
been in the situation, and I have on more than
one occasion, ah, it leaves a lot of blood and
a lot of different places and that did not exist.
(18:04):
But you could tell by the wound itself whether a
person was dead. When when you die, your heart is
not pumping anymore, so the blood blood doesn't flow like that.
The blood that was present in the garage was blood
that drained out of the corass cavity. I guess it's
proper term. You know where the head was onto the floor.
The pathologists, as the results of examining the body can
(18:26):
tell you absolutely for certain that he was dead when
the head was kind of Did he have any other
wounds besides the decapitation. There was a slight wound on
on one of the hands, probably a defensive wound of
some sort. We had a little bit of trouble here
and there in this case. And uh, I hate to
(18:46):
get you know, not much of a TV man, but
you know it's program forty eight hours. Having worked many, many,
many murders in my career many besides that, saying in
forty eight hours is very true, true thing. We are
relatively certain they were killed on Saturday, and we know
for a fact we didn't get the call to ten
(19:08):
o'clock on Tuesday morning. That's one factor. We have absolutely
no witnesses that saw anything, and immediate next to our
neighbor was in Asia. At the time, they lived at
the end of a cult de sac. There was no
house on the other side, and these and I want
you to understand that I don't know what the percentage is,
(19:31):
but I would say a third of the homes, even
though these are me and not homes and things like that,
a third of these homes are not full time resid
decapitation murders are hell, they're not five or six in
this country in a year, and in the last three
years there's only been one where the head was removed
and not at the scene besides this one. And at
(19:54):
least the best of our investigative abilities, that's what we've
learned of. And listen, we've thing on top of the
pretty pretty close. But that's that's a rarity in itself.
So I knew the minute I saw that that that
this was going to be a different case. That seems
almost like somebody took it as a trophy. It does,
(20:17):
but professionally and I can't articulate at this point in time,
I wanted to think so, but I don't think that's
what happened. I think that if whoever took it took
it to prevent us from finding evidence in it. You
know a lot of these things, decapitations and things like that,
they're sending out a message their position in the body.
(20:38):
You know, they you know that that wasn't the case.
The body is just kind of laying there, you know,
where it dropped. You know, they did not want anybody
to find this body for a while. Whoever did it,
They've taken some towels and stuff and kind of made
a little damn to keep the blood from running out
up under the garage door where it would have been
(20:59):
seen from the out side. So they didn't want anybody
to know. And obviously they who ever did this, I
certainly thought that we would never find miss German. That
takes away from the professional aspect of somebody a professional killer.
Because of professional killer, a lot of the things would
have been different, but they would have known that body
would have still been able to come up to Is
(21:21):
it possible that the head contained evidence in the nature
of maybe a bullet absolutely could have contained DNA. That
could have been some sort of scuffle, you know, I mean,
I'm sure you've been like me, You've been in a
fist fight before, and it didn't like on television, we
hit somebody's head with your hand, usually you will get
it cut. Your blood may end up on there too,
(21:43):
you know. And I thought, I think recently the Grinstead
case that took twelve years before somebody made a call
and identified to people that I'm sure that the g
b I and other law force nat season were involved
in that investigation of everything in the world that could
was my understanding. You know that these people that they
(22:04):
arrested weren't even on the radar initially. And uh, I
think that's what I'm gonna have to have here. I'm
confident more than one personal and involved in this, and
what I need is that I need that same kind
of phone Carl. Those of you who followed our sister
(22:34):
podcast up and vanished in the case of Terah Grinstead,
know that in every cold case, time is your worst enemy.
As the years go by and no new information surfaces,
the likelihood of ever solving the case becomes more and
more slim every day. But as Sheriff still says, all
it takes is that one phone call, that one piece
(22:57):
to this puzzle that can completely change the trajectory of
the investigation. Somebody out there knows something, They know what
happened to the Dermans, and one phone call, just one
could lead to the arrest and potentially conviction of the
person or persons responsible for this act of savagery. To
(23:19):
get that phone call, that one piece of valuable information,
oftentimes you've got to shake the trees, and you've got
to keep the case from going any colder and keep
it alive in the media. So what can he do
to get this case moving again? Well, I caught up
with an old friend of mine named John Dawes. John
(23:40):
investigates cold cases for a living, and he's been doing
it for a very long time, and is it just
so happens. He's very familiar with the Lake oh Cooney murders.
I've been involved in cold case work even in my
active career with the cop Coining Police Department. I had
been there for a long time and started pulling out
(24:00):
cold cases in two thousand nine and I actually brought
one to a town arrest pretty quick. And then when
I retired from the Copcunt Police Department in two thousand
and thirteen, I was contacted by the current District Attorney,
Vick Reynolds he had an idea to start a cold
case unit that would work out of the District Attorney's office.
A little bit different from your average cold case unit.
(24:20):
We're not embedded in one agency. We can actually assist
all seven agencies inside Cobb County. So uh, he asked
me if I would consider running that for him. I
told him I would be glad to do that. So
I started doing uh cold case solely in February two
thousand and fourteen. A case becomes cold when it's sat
for twelve months. Uh. That's the typical definition for a
(24:42):
cold cases is twelve months with no activity and no
forward movement towards the goal of identifying a suspect and
bringing it to prosecution. But the first thing that I
want to look at is the evidence, to make sure
that it's still held and it's been properly protect and
there's a good chain of custody on it, and I
(25:03):
want to see what's available because of you know, technology
grows daily and we found that we can do a
lot of things with evidence that's been sitting for years
and years that couldn't be tested. The other things that
you can do is is old school detective work. Maybe
not so much in a year, but over the course
of some years, witnesses parties to the incident itself sometimes
(25:26):
have a change of heart and a change of mind,
change their lifestyle a little bit, and they're more willing
to talk truth about the case than they were when
it occurred. Tell us a little bit about what an
investigator who finds themselves at a dead end might feel
when they feel like they just can't bring justice to
(25:48):
a victims family and they can't provide answers to the community.
It's literally sickening. First of all, if you're what I
call a real homicide detective, you live that case, you
eat it, breathe that, you sleep it. It's uh you
become a family member in your contacted by that family.
I have three cases from my active law enforcement preretirement
(26:11):
days that were unsolved, and one of them is is
now twenty two years old as of a few weeks ago,
and I still hear from that family and they're glad
that I'm that I'm running the cold case unit. I
still am looking at it. But it's a it's a
sick feeling that you've initially, I think when you get
to a year mark where you haven't solved it. You
(26:33):
you are confident that you have done everything that you
can do, but as the years go on, you begin
to question yourself. You begin to look at things and say, well,
maybe if I had done this, or if I had
done this differently. So it causes a lot of unrest.
It it loses sleep, headaches, high blood pressure, UH, family problems.
It's UH. It's very, very difficult for a homicide detective
(26:57):
to accept that that you haven't found the slip up
that the bag guy made. Let's assume you have a
case that there's not a lot of forensic evidence in
the sense of DNA. Maybe you've got some blood spatter
and things like that that might tell you physically how
something happened, but doesn't necessarily point to where would you
(27:19):
go next? Who would you start looking at first? On
a case like that, you automatically go to family, and
that's a part of the victimology. You hope that the victimology,
the background of the victims, tells you something uh to
give you a direction to head in um talking about
criminal history, backgrounds, financial backgrounds, investment backgrounds, business owner backgrounds, partnerships, associations,
(27:43):
there are a lot of things that you can glean
from interviewing family and doing your background searches. The technology
that's available today is overwhelmingly wonderful. On a small percentage
of cases, it's a great assistant. But it all goes
back to old school detective work, beating on the doors
(28:03):
and knocking through the bushes trying to find answers. Uh
So I would go first to victimology from the crime scene.
There's a percentage of people out there who, through their
own selfish motives, bring injustice, and they for their own
selfish reasons, they'll take the life of another. So what
is the motive for murdering these two old people? Is
(28:27):
it financial gain for someone? Is it repayment of a
debt to someone? Somebody has a motive that's close knit
in that group. My first guest not knowing in the
case anymore than I do. These people lived in a
nice house on a nice piece of property that they
obviously had either good financial means or a tremendous amount
of debt. In this case, Mr Derman's head was removed
(28:52):
after he died. Does that surprise you? That's a message
if his identity is easily known because his body is there.
I don't know whether or not his head remained on
the scene near his body or was removed, But some
people would think, well, that way, his dental records can't
(29:14):
be checked if the head has gone, but his identity
identity can be established by their means. So I think
that a post mortem decapitation separating the head is a
message to who would find the body. Any number of
things are are possibilities, whether it was to deter identification UM,
which doesn't seem likely with a post mortem decapitation, if
(29:37):
that's the facts of the case. Ballistics is a potential possibility,
the exchange of touch DNA is A is a potential possibility.
But I had to look more at probability, and I
think the likely probability is the shock factor for the
person who finds that body. In terms of this case
(29:58):
or in cold cases in general, When all the rocks
that you have to look under have been looked under
and you've left no stone that you're aware of unturned,
what can you do? That's when you you turn to
other people, other agencies to keep having a different set
of eyes look at it. And there are any number
(30:22):
of veteran detectives with agencies all over the place. One
of the ways that we've formed the unit that I
have working for me and my my people are all
volunteering their time. But we've got a person who's pretty
much an expert in crime scene documentation. We've got someone
who's an expert in interviews and interrogations. We have someone
(30:43):
who's uh kind of an expert in report writing. We
have we have a narcotics professional, investigation professionals. So we
have a lot of different people who bring a different
aspect to each and every case that we open up.
So my suggestion when you reach that point that you
have gone through it and gone through it and gone
(31:04):
through it, and you're satisfied that you've looked at everything,
that's when you need a complete fresh set of eyes
to truly understand this case and its complexity. You need
case files. You need access to those case files. And
(31:24):
in the state of Georgia, the open records law states
that usually you can't have it. Law enforcement tends to
keep it to themselves if there's an open investigation. As
a former police officer, I can tell you that oftentimes
pride will get in your way. It's your job to
assure that the cases get solved. So you withhold certain
(31:45):
information to give yourself an investigative edge. For example, sometimes
investigators know that there are certain things that only the
criminal could possibly know, so they'll never release that. But
sometimes releasing information can generate interest, and generating interest could
generate that one phone call that could be so desperately needed.
(32:07):
But what if you still just can't solve it, and
you can't solve it for years? Are you doing more
harm by keeping these case files from the public? What
if they the public has the answer? Every law enforcement
agency and every officer. Quite frankly, they're different. And Sheriff
Howard Sills himself, the elected sheriff, is still in charge
(32:29):
of this case. George's open records laws don't require Shriff
sALS to keep anything to himself. He could publish it
all for the first time in the three years that
this case has been pending. Sheriff sALS has agreed to
meet with the Sworn podcast and open up his case
file in the Lake o Conei murders. So we arranged
(32:51):
to meet at his office, and I decided to bring
along a good friend of mine and probably of yours,
Payne Lindsay from up and Vanished. Yeah, okay, Pain, they
don't cant see him. It's kind of weird, you know,
(33:20):
right now here, this close now to where this awful
murders who plays this makes me wonder what we're gonna
find when we get out here. You know, the sheriff
was real inviting on the phone, Pain, and he told us,
you know, he's basically gonna open up his file to us.
That's so different than your experience with up in Vanish
(33:41):
with the police file. Oh, it's definitely. I mean, I
would love to have the case file and character instance
because I don't know what we're gonna get into when
we get out here. I really don't know what to expect.
But when the lead investigator, who happens to be the
county Sheriff's has come out here and look at my file,
that's just something I can't I can't turn down that opportunity.
(34:12):
I'm Philip Halloway, I'm here to see Sheriff Sells. He's
expecting me, Yes, Philip Halloway, yesterday. Hey, how are you
going to follow? How you doing? George Lived? What I've
got is I've got a power point in Fellow. I
(34:34):
don't want to show you all pictures of everything. It
was frustrating more than anything else. Um, you've got two
horrific murders here of the elderly people that occurred in
my county and I haven't been able to uh figure
out who did it yet. And three years is a
long time. The George Supreme Court said many years ago
(34:58):
at the office of Share carries with it the duty
to preserve the peace, protect the lives, person's property, health,
and morals of the people. Now that kind of saysn't
that's your duty. I'm not some hired city police officer
that has the authority to do something. I'm not a
(35:19):
state patrolman that has the authority to do something on
public roadways. I'm the share with the duty to protect
this community. This is the Derman residence on Caroline Drive
and the Great Waters section of Reynolds Plantation here in
Putnam County out on Lake o'coney. We've used this with
(35:43):
other law enforcement agencies, only this has never been shown
to the public. The garage was a little bit of
a lower level, and so when the people who found them,
when they first opened that door, that's what they saw,
which is nothing. You see the two cars and you
see the garage doors closed. The cars look very clean.
(36:05):
It's a hell of a lot cleaner than my garage
is in my house. When the man he found Mr
Drmin's body, when he saw that, he walks on down
and as you will see, this is what you see.
Oh my, this is I just I'm speechless. When I
(36:25):
walked back there and I saw that body there, and
then I didn't see the head. I was scared that
I was gonna be sitting here three years later not
knowing who did this. Next time on Sworn, the professional
killer will come in your house with a twenty two
or twenty two man and shoots you, hit and lead.
(36:48):
They're not gonna cut your damn yet. Get to hear
exclusive details from the crime scene and a new lead
that share Sells is still working on that may provide
the key to solving the Lake o'coni murders. Sworn is
(37:14):
produced by Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. Story production and sound
design by Payne Lindsay. Executive producers Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay.
And if you have it yet, please check out our
sister podcast, Up and Vantaged that follows the investigation into
the disappearance of Georgia high school teacher and beauty queen
Tera Grinstead Up and Vantaged is available now on Apple Podcasts.
(37:37):
Sworn is mixed and mastered by Resonate Recordings. If you're
in the market for podcast production, go to Resonate Recordings
dot com to get your first episode produced for free.
I'd like to do a very special thank you to
Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills, and to John Dawes, and
to Christian Boone, and last but not least, I want
to thank you the listeners for making Sworn the number
(38:01):
one podcast on iTunes before it was officially released. If
you haven't already, please head over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate,
and review Sworn, and make sure you check us out
online at sworn podcast dot com and follow us on
social media at sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram. And
you can follow me your host, Philip Holloway at phil
(38:22):
holloway e s Q on Twitter. See shot
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