April 4, 2023 • 46 mins
It's been 40 years since the release of The Outsiders, Francis Ford Coppola's film adaptation of the S.E. Hinton novel of the same name, and in the intervening decades, Rob Lowe—who made his film debut playing Sodapop Curtis—has seen it all. Over dinner with host Bruce Bozzi, he pulls back the curtain on his prodigious career, from growing up next door to the Sheen family (Emilio Estevez was his co-star in The Outsiders) and watching a young Tom Cruise backflip off a car to feeling pigeonholed by the term "brat pack" and working on a project with his son, John Owen Lowe. Hear a preview of the episode below, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
I am so excited. We are at the Sunset Tower Hotel. However,
it is not lunch, it is dinner time, and therefore
I am dressed in a black velvet armani blazer, trying
to be all like, you know, sultry sexy for Hollywood tonight,
because we're having a meal with an incredible guy, a
guy that you've seen in many movies and television shows
(00:27):
throughout the decades. Hi, allright, it looked very dashing tonight,
do I Yeah, he's eternally youthful. He's been rocking it
since the eighties, right through the nineteen nineties, two thousands.
He's an actor, a writer, a podcaster. What do you
eat to the town? Very hungry? Perfect? What is your
(00:48):
go to here? I tend to do a stake when
I'm I'm going to do the same. We are having
dinner tonight with mister Roblow. So pull up a chair,
grab a glass of rose, and we'll be back soon.
I'm Bruce Bozzi and this is my podcast Table for two.
(01:10):
I just want to hit upon because I happened to
watch the trailer for Unstable. Yes, Rob has a new
show which will be a number one Netflix show, just
like The last one was with your son, John Owen.
Lowe called on a stable and I gotta say, the
trailer is so fucking funny. Oh good, and it's funny.
It's great. Okay, it's great. Can you tell us about that?
(01:33):
And working with your son and the whole fame. So
the genesis of the whole thing was I have two sons,
Matthew who's twenty nine and works in finance now and
John Owen, who is a writer and actor. And he
would troll me on my Instagram, just bust my chops, relentless,
relentless busting of chops, just saying, Dad, don't do this, Dad,
(01:55):
don't do that. Go on my Instagram and go back
and look and you will see what he what he's
it's he's super witty. Yeah, and really really he's very
good the way he delivers lines. Yeah, he's got good timings. Yeah.
So he started doing that and just to bust my chops.
There was there was no agenda to it. There was
he just was doing it as something as a goof
(02:17):
on his old dad. And people started noticing it, and
people started commenting on it, and it got to the
point where when I would do an interview. Whether it
was for Ellen or Jimmy Kimmel or Good Morning America,
didn't matter who. They always wanted to ask about John
Owen and how he trolls me. Right, And finally got
(02:38):
to the point where John Owen and I sort of thinking,
people are wanting this and enjoying it. Is there what
could we possibly do with it as a as a
project or something? And I thought, well, we're not going
to do a reality show about our relationship, but is
there something about the relationship that we can transpose and
make a show out of? And that became unstable. You know.
(03:01):
I took some of the some of my qualities and
put them on steroids, right, And John Owen basically plays
himself right, and it just is a super funny, fun
father son comedy. Was it hard working with your son?
Is it difficult? Is its great? Oh? It's great. It's
heaven because both my boys. I feel like worth three
(03:25):
people with the same brain. Okay, wow, you know all
content is so subjective, you know, art, whatever it is.
And to have someone who's a partner with you, who
has the exact same taste, I can delegate things to him,
he can delegate things to me. As as producers, and
(03:46):
I like, I know, if new pages are written on
the script, if he likes them, I know I'll like them.
Or if he doesn't like them, I know I'm gonna
like it even less. You know, we grew up exactly
at the same time, and you and you talk about
it so much in your warre and I want to
talk about California in the seventies and the eighties and
just my favorite sub the parenting that didn't and did happen.
(04:08):
But I one of the things that I do this
with my kid too, is we're sort of silly. We
grew up in a time where we'd get on our
bikes and we'd go out until it got dark, and
our parents never asked where we were, didn't know where
we were, and it didn't care where we're here. And
so there's a freedom and a sort of zest for life.
(04:31):
And I think it informs the sort of joada vive
of certainly of my character my worldview, right. I think
the Jadevi is key you really want to treat the
audible is amazing of your book. Hearing you actually, you know,
talk about that time and the move from Dayton to
Malibu and then everything that went down, the buses you
(04:53):
had to take to the parents that didn't exist. And
there's so much humor in your point of view in
it even being like where you were allowed to sit
on the bus. Oh yeah, you weren't allowed to sit
on the bus. So I was never a cool kid,
so I couldn't sit with the I find that so
hard to believe. Like, no, no, man, listen, I wasn't.
I wasn't a surfer then. I only learned to surf
(05:13):
in my forties. I came to Malibu at thirteen, and
you they weren't going to let a thirteen year old
Ohio kid. They were meet the shit out of you. Wow,
Like if you were from the Valley and you tried
to surf there, they'd slash your tires. Really, it's a
real no fool and territorial surf gangs. And they weren't
going some kid, right go out and surf. So I
(05:36):
never learned. But Malibu then was was a very very
different thing than it was than than it is now.
It was really rugged, yeah, super rugged. Now you get
this that feel and sort of and very sort of
you know, working class. It was like Fireman and cops. Yeah,
what's so special about you, Rob Is you kind of like, yeah,
(05:57):
I want to be an actor and I'm going to
figure this out and I could beat up today. But
they didn't appreciate me being an actor. Even I came
from Ohio. They thought I was really crazy wanting to
be an actor. I get to California to I think
everybody it's the bastion of show business. And they didn't
like it either, right, they just did. It was like
(06:17):
when you go back to Ohio to be and you
were like, oh, maybe like Peanut Butter and Jelly is
gonna be like performing it. I was in a a
Kid's All Star review in Ohio when I was ten
eleven twelve called Peanut Butter and Jelly and we would
do covers I think somebody's saying You're so vain by
(06:38):
Carly Simon. But we also did original pieces and we
would like do play at the malls and the opening
of things, and like, we didn't play like bar Mitzva's,
but it was very close, right. We didn't playing in
barn Mitchens. They weren't a Jewish. We would have played right.
But I thought that was like the beginning of my
big break that I was in Peanut, Butter and Jelly.
(07:00):
What a great name. As lame as the name is
is as lame as my memory of it was. But boy,
I thought it was now. But I love it because
you tell a story of going back and you're like
miserable going back something to Ohio and then you call
up the guy. I was like, hey, we say as
peot Butter Jelly. Still, it was like it was like
Fleetwood Mac. So as Fleetwood Mac getting back together. Man,
we gonna we're gonna go on the road. We're gonna
(07:21):
play the Dayton Mall. And they just were like, no, kid,
that's it's over. There's a little life. You're done. You know,
I know a lot about Rob's career because just being
basically the same age I watch, and there was a
lot of influences of your movies and things that were
(07:41):
going on, your reference sort of growing up in Malibu
and the kids and the freedom. How did you figure
that out with Sheryl, with your boys, because the world
changed so much. The world did change. I mean, no
no parent today is gonna let their kid go on
an audition from Mali Boo into Hollywood taking three buses
(08:03):
by themselves, by themselves at twelve, right, it's not going
to happen. So when I had kids, I tried to
give them as from as much freedom as I could.
And the main thing I did was, there's always going
to be that cool house that everybody wants to hang
out at, and I decided it would be mine. Yeah, key,
because they can keep an eye on everybody. When I
was young, it was the Sheen's house, but Martin was
(08:24):
always on location, right, So Rob grew up literally next
to Martin Sheen and Janet she Martin and Emilio Esteva's
and Charlie Sheen. We were all friends and there's the
cool house because they're cool people. But they also had
a pool. They had an amazing pool. So I recreated
that with my house, so all the kids were there
(08:45):
all the time. I know all my my boys friends.
So you have the intel. Yeah, you have the behind
the scenes. Otherwise you're not getting it because they're not
going to give it up to you. But if you
kind of witness it, then you're It's it's very helpful
as a parent. You talk about and I find I
found it so devastating. So you talk about those group
of kids that you were growing up with they all
(09:06):
died horribly. Yeah, we had in my junior high, my
junior I was three grades, was the seventh grade, eighth grade,
ninth grade, junior high. Seven hundred kids probably right, and
there were at least seven deaths, And like, if that
happened today, it'd be like an international news story completely,
(09:28):
it'd be like what's going on? And nobody cared. It
was just like it was just a different time. But
you know, a lot of them were drug overdoses. A
lot of them were tragic freak accidents. Yeah, but all
of them were because of the lack of parent oversight,
access to drugs, and the behavior that unsupervised kids will
(09:53):
have that put you in a position to have a
freak accident. Yeah, you lay that out, I think kind
of perfectly with those like three things that come into
play as far as what's responsible for that, because clearly
there's still an issue going on with kids that are
doing and they're dying from fetanol overdoses, and kids don't
have the freedom that they used to. But what I
(10:13):
feel from your growing up was a kid that knew
who he wanted to be, how to get there, how
to figure out how to get there, to be a kid,
to be able to take three buses to go to
an audition that, like you said, at that age, at
that age, which is a thirty second audition for a commercial,
it's like, okay, you know, turnaround, but name great, go home.
(10:35):
And it's like I knew what I wanted to do.
I knew who I wanted to be, and it was
a blessing. It gave me a focus. I didn't have
to struggle. And I see so many almost everybody, you know,
at a certain point of going what am I going
to do with my life? And you know, I just
didn't have that experience. It's hard for me. I empathize
with it, huh, But I don't relate to it because
(10:58):
I didn't have that. I was just a completely driven,
single focused. You were amazing. You tell the story A
little heartbreaking. Was Telly Savalis in the department store story? Yeah?
When I was still living in Dayton in the mid seventies,
there was nobody bigger than Kojack, nobody nobody. I wanted
to be an actor. And I read in the paper
(11:19):
that Telly Savalis is going to be appearing at the
Reichs department store on the eighth floor next to the
women's lingerie, and I was like what, So I take
the bus again with the buses, and then there's another one.
I'm ten years old and hey, mom, I wanted to
some Hollywood actor down at the department. Yeah. Great, So
(11:40):
I go down there. I wait in like a four
hour line to get his autograph. I finally get to
the front of the line and they shut the line down.
It's time for him to go. And I'm super bumped
because I bought him a lollipop because Kojack his bit
was he always sucked a lollipop. And I think he
has taggin who loves you baby? Who loves your baby?
With his like blowpop or whatever it was. And and
(12:01):
I'm like all of ten and I and I I
grab one of the guys by the coat and excuse me,
circuit you, maybe you could just give this lollipop to
mistress of policy. Yeah, your kid, absolutely, And he turns
to walk away and he throws it in the trash
and I was so like heartbroken, and I just remember it.
I've never forgotten it. I think about it all the
(12:22):
time in terms of dealing with people who come up
to me. I was at once a fan of somebody's
and so I don't have to try too. It's in
my nature. I always enjoy meeting people because I remember
it vividly what it's like to be a fan of somebody's. Yeah, no,
I don't want to throw anybody's lollipop in the trash.
(13:01):
We're back today is a special one for me on
Table for two with the beautiful Rob below. Rob's four
decade career wasn't always easy, and in nineteen eighty two
he nearly walked away. But just a year later, Francis
Ford Copoli's adaptation of the Outsiders changed Rob's life forever.
Let's jump back into our dinner. You know, your memoir
(13:25):
really goes deep into the audition process and then the
actual shooting process with Francis Ford Coppolo, which is like
crazy what he made you guys do, and like because
that was like the first really big moment my first movie.
That was your first movie. I've done a sitcom on
ABC and I played like the Teenager the Teenage Son
(13:46):
when it ran for like six episodes and was canceled. Um.
And then I've done some after school specials. If you
remember those Wednesdays on yours it was a big deal.
It was a big one. Yeah, it was. It was.
It was an important moment for me. But I yeah,
I'd never done a movie. And you know, sitcoms and
(14:09):
natter school specials are not movies, right, and they're certainly
not Frances for Coppola. And you know Coppola at that
still one of our great filmmakers. Yeah, at that moment,
he was you know, he was only a few years
off of making Apocalypse Now, right, and you know, and
of course got The Godfathers. And so here's this very
very lauded, serious filmmaker doing a movie where all the
(14:33):
roles are fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year olds, right, and you know,
all the kid actors were like this, this is the
it's the goal. The Willie Wonka gold tickets. Yeah, that
everybody wanted. And and you talk about the auditions and
you reference in the auditions. So there's the West Coast
guys that are auditioning and the New York actors. Right.
(14:54):
I love this because he really makes you work for this.
The West Coast actors were you Amelia Amelio. Weirdly enough,
Tom because he was staying out here with Amelia. So
Cruz was out here even though he was East Coast
pony Boy Tommy Howe. And then we went to the
East Coast and that's where Matt Dillon was, Ralph Maccio played,
(15:18):
and we went through this whole process months, months of auditions,
months and months and months and months, and then he
picked his favorites. And then he took us to New
York and it was the same thing there, but it
was months. It was, you know, a week and then
but we did. I mean, there's more filmed footage of
us auditioning than there probably is of us making the
(15:39):
actual movie. Actually, if you go on YouTube you can
see it. You see some really great early stuff. So
the process of that film, when your sons look at
that movie, what was their reaction to that movie? Well,
I'm not sure how much of anything of mine my
sons have actually seen. Really. I know, John Owen is
(16:00):
never seen the West Wing. Really, this is what it's
it's become a bit now now now that's his professional
calling card. Of course he doesn't really know, right, right,
And I actually do think they've all seen The Outsiders because,
much to their mortification, they had to read the book
and see the movie in class. Right, it is that's
(16:22):
seventh grade. It's in the curriculum across the country the
most part. And there's nothing I love more than going
into a seventh grade class right after they've seen the
movie or and read the book and talking to them.
I love it. I love it because I love kids,
but also it's a new crop of fans. I mean
(16:42):
to be able to you know, the key to longevity
is you can't if your audience ages out. Yeah you're done.
You're done. So the key to a long career is
if you're lucky enough to figure it out. Having a
new crop of people discover you every year. And the
outsiders does that right by design? That's interesting. Did you
hear from those young people all the time? I see,
(17:05):
I still have fourteen fifteen year olds come up to
me and freak because it's soda pop Curt please, I freaked.
What was the toughest part when you were in production
with that? The night shoots? You know, I mean I
never made a movie, so the notion of shooting all
night right in the rain, and the fight the big
(17:25):
rumble scene was a whole week of shooting all at
night with freezing cold, no dressing rooms, no, no Francis
was very mercurial. He would treat the cast great and
then wouldn't provide any anywhere for us to get warm. Right.
I love that. I didn't know this if Frances when
you run into Darren Dalton, who plays a soy in
(17:47):
the elevator and you're with Tommy Howell and you guys
are on one floor and in the hotel, the socias,
if you watch this movie, they have like access to
a gym and room service. I love that whole And
the best part of it was it didn't work. Though,
the best part it was it's still the outsiders. Everybody
wants to be a greaser. Everyone, every one of those
(18:09):
socials would like like, I'll do without the room service,
I'll do without the suite. I'd rather have the better part.
So that's always my I mean, Francis had all of
these great social engineering experiments he wanted to try. He
had us playing tackle football in the street, and I'll
(18:29):
never forget Tommy Howell play pony boy. His dad was
one of the great stuntman, Chris Howell, the legendary stuntman,
so Tommy knew his way around even though he's only fifteen.
He huddled this up, and so listen, I'm calling this game.
We're done here. If I break my leg on this
next football play, I'll be on the next flight home
and somebody else will be playing Pony my favorite thing. Though,
(18:50):
Francis wanted us to learn about being greasers by talking
to people who were greasers in the fifties. So me
and Cruz were hooked up with this family and I
had to go spend the night at their house and
the basements, and I can just remember lying in this
cot in the basement of a house in Tulsa with
a with a family I never knew, and just looking
(19:11):
over at Tom and going, what the what the fuck
are we doing? It was I mean, I understand why
Francis did it, I get it, but it was It's
very odd and not the way most people make movies.
Is that sort of methody in a way, and also
odd because you guys were young. But I realized the
only letter when I read I think it's easy Rider
(19:32):
Raging Bulls so the great book about movie making. Yeah,
in the seventies and eighties, that Francis had lost the
money for the movie and or it had an all.
So he was like vamping smart, so he's like, yeah,
giving himself time. He also we would make us wake
up at six in the morning and do tai chi
on the location. And I could never figure out what
(19:55):
doing tai chi had to do with playing in nineteen
fifties grease sir, but whatever, you know, that's Francis said.
He he's a genius. I mean he beats to his
own drum. So if you had to like think back then,
if you had to sort of say, think of an
(20:18):
adjective for each person that you were with, Like if
you if I said, Swayzie, like what is he's a mind?
He was a true renaissance man. He was a professional
ballet dancer. He was a rodeo champion. He was a songwriter.
There's there's wasn't a job that he hadn't had. There
(20:41):
wasn't anything that he wasn't good at. He was a gymnast.
He was just one of those guys. It was like
anything you mentioned, yeah, did that, Yeah, and he had right.
There wasn't like, Hey, this guy that as Scott up
twenty seven times, he's just one of those guys. Yeah,
it seems like a really great guy. Good guy. He
(21:02):
was a great guy in super intense, Like, but if
you could harness Swayzy and cruise energy, we could light
the world for a thousand years. So okay, let's go
to cruise. Cruise seemed like ambitious, ambitious hands never met
anybody more ambitious, and I'm ambitious. He makes me look
like a Hackey Sack plan doper with a pork pie
(21:27):
hat on in Brooklyn. Now did he take that tooth
out purposely? Yes? That was intense. Yeah, I mean, like
I remember the tooth out. It was there's a lot
of one up in going on. It was like, right,
the only way that any of us got the parts
where it was killer be killed. So the people who
(21:47):
figured out a way to stand out got the parts.
That's what Frances wanted. Pitted everybody against everybody, and so
sure it was hopefully in theory the best actors one,
but I've always thought it was it was the people
who had who could stand the pressure and who could
find a way to score. And Tom's part of Steve
(22:08):
Randall is not a huge part, but you know, Tom
being Tom was like ambitious and you know, I remember all.
France has also thought that we should all be gymnasts
for some reason you talk. And so we had to
learn how to do backflips. And so, I don't know
if you've ever tried to learn how to do a backflip.
It's not fun and it's scary as shit. You feel
like you're gonna break your neck. Yes, and I was
(22:30):
not good. None of us are particularly swayzy. Of course,
already knew how to do it right, because he knows
how to do everything. But Tom took it. So and
if you see The Outsiders and then there's the movies playing,
and the movie just stops dead and Tom does a
backflip off of a card, and then the movie continues
right which and in that so it starts with Tom
doing a backflip and the Outsiders it and ends with
(22:52):
Tom shooting a movie in the space station, which he's
doing next. We started a very serious trend for him.
You really did. Yeah. So now Matt Dylan, who seemed
kind of brooding and intense, he's like the New York
He was Francis's favorite. He was Francis was in love
with them, really so much so that when the movie
came out, we were making the book an exact replica
(23:14):
of the book. And when the movie came out, it
was all centered on Matt's character, so they cut a
lot of what we shot and about I think about
fifteen years ago, they re cut The Outsiders to what
we actually know what. It's called The Outsiders the Complete Novel,
and that is now sort of what everybody watches. But
that original version is a extremely truncated and it was
(23:38):
really shocking for all of us when we saw it
because not what we did, but it was Francis's desire
to focus totally on the Matt Dylan character so beacting
when the movie came out that that would be the
way it was. Never I will never. I've never fully
gotten over seeing theatrical nineteen eighty three version of The
(24:02):
Outsiders for the first time because all my stuff was
basically cut no way. I mean, I still have a
presence in the movie. That's good and yeah, but one
of the reasons they cut it was and this is
just shows you how far we've all come. One of
my favorite scenes I've ever done cut from the original
film is pony Boy and I in bed together thinking
about our parents and holding each other right. And when
(24:24):
they showed it in the theaters, all of the thirteen
fourteen year old boys were so uncomfortable by it that
they kind of made a ruck us and they cut.
They cut that scene, and then I think, once you
cut that scene, you start cutting the fan. But it's
a really beautiful scene and it's in the Outsiders, the
novel super sweet? Is it in the longer? Noways? Okay?
(24:46):
I watch this great? Are you friends with the guys
from the outside? When I was roasted on Comedy Central,
which is one of my favorite things, by the way,
it's the meanest roast in the history, the best sense
of you. It's so fun. I can take it, and
I condition this is rough. Natchio was on My Dais
(25:07):
to rest me. So I see Ralph Amelia I haven't
seen a long time. He and I were best friends
for years and years and years, and Diane Blaine and
I are always I've seen her around. I did my
one man show in Atlanta and Tommy Howell came and
(25:27):
I brought him up on stage. But it's we don't
really see each other though. I mean, I haven't seen
a lot of them in years and years, and it's
not kind of like life. It is, well, it's kind of,
but there's always that bond. It's like, I'm sure. It's
like when you're together, it's like you're it's like you
never Yeah, And I don't know how if you if
you suffer from this, like when incredible things happen to
(25:47):
you and time goes by, you begin to question your
own memory because it's so outrageous and see that could
possibly have happened. And then you it's like you do
with your guy with a brother, and I go, remember
what mom did? Did she really needs it? Yeah? Because
you question your youth. Yeah, and so chab Rob's brother
(26:09):
who I know. I love job, super nice guy. It's
like you need a witness in life. Yes, having a witness,
Having a sibling that witnesses all of it so helpful.
You do get to a point where you're like, wait,
did that really happen. I'm gonna do that with the outsiders.
I'm gonna be like, did we really shoot from twenty
four consecutive hours? Yeah? Right? Did we? Did Francis really
(26:35):
have a rap party every Friday night, every Friday, every Friday,
sushi flown in China, eating on China. This is hop
This doesn't happen now. By the way, we also shout
the movie in complete continuity, which is unheard of. You
don't do like so when you make a movie, you
shoot each location all the way out. So but there
(26:55):
scenes an in a house that and you go in
and you watch the movie in the houses throughout the movie,
you shoot that house everything in it, and then you
go We shot the entire movie and continuity. So if
there was a scene in the house, we shot that,
and then if in the script we went to a lake,
we shot the lake, and then if there was a
scene and that, we went back to the house, and
then we had a better process. I thought it was great.
(27:18):
Frances did it? I think to help us as actors? Well,
how did it? Field would be kind of labeled the
Brat Pack, like what was that at the time? That time? Good?
I mean, I thought it was cool, but I don't know,
I wasn't. Well that's what I realized quicker than a
lot of the other people in the Brat Pack was
to to the world large. Yeah, they thought it was cool,
(27:38):
but if you read the article that it was based on,
it was absolutely meant as a pejorative right, and a
sort of dismissive catch all for you know, callo ambition soaked.
You know, Hollywood operators, you know, who are just spending
(28:01):
as much time partying as they did with their craft.
That's absolutely what it meant. And the industry certainly got
that message. And so within the confidence of Hollywood and
New York it meant one thing, right, But in the
world it meant something else. And you know, I very
quickly got to the point where I realized that I
was like, how great? But there were other other folks
(28:24):
who to this day won't talk about some of those
movies because they were so they felt so pigeonholed by
that name. Right. But you know, like, I've had a
ton of therapy over my years, and you realize that
that people's perception is none of your business. Thanks for
(29:00):
pulling up a chair tonight, everyone, movie star, TV star,
podcaster and author. But that doesn't mean you get everything.
It was a show he was obsessed with as a teenager.
He never got to be on Did you ever do
in the day? There was the thing that they used
to do on ABC, The Battle The Network Stars. Oh,
(29:21):
listen to me, I'm obsessed with Battle Network Stars. I
went to The Battle Network Stars multiple times. You did oh?
Did they do it up? In like on the beach
if you it's a very embarrassing shot of me that
exists on Google and my red dolphin shorts. Come on,
anybody can pull them off, no shirt. And I'm sitting
(29:45):
on the endfield of the Battle of the Network Stars.
I think I want I wanted to go and see
Fara Fawcett majors at that time, right, um. But by
the time I was well known that that era was over,
was done. Yeah, So the Battle of Network Stars was
literally the biggest thing out. It was like the Oscars.
Oh no, yeah, everyone tuned in and it was all
(30:06):
these actors from the different networks competing against each other. Today,
I was thinking, how you would do today? But today
it would it would be like it would have to
be like from Ozark Jason Bateman, he would be pulling
a tug of war with the cast of Succession, um
and you know the cast of Veep in the realist
(30:29):
like it would be. That's what it would have to be,
that level the Game of Thrones. People in the dump tank.
Do you think celebrity and stars have changed for sure? Right?
I mean, what would it have been like if you
could see anytime you wanted on TMZ, Marilyn Monroe with
(30:53):
her yoga mat rolled up under her arm, James Dean
coming out of Airwan, Steve McClean, Yeah, Steve me. Just
there's no mystery and now you know you have it
on TMZ, you have everybody has Instagram and there's just
no mystery anywhere. And I'm not sure if it's a
good thing or a bad thing, but I know that
(31:14):
it has. It's changed how people perceive stars, and it's
harder for young people who are just starting out to
achieve the kind of career where they transcend any individual
(31:35):
part they're playing. Are there people that are resonating with
you that you're like, wow, this is someone to watch.
I remember not all of them are young, but there
are people that you see for the first time and go,
oh my god. Yeah. I remember watching one of my
favorite moves is The Witch, and seeing Anya Taylor Joy
(31:55):
in that and she's going on to have this amazing career,
and I think she was probably all of seventeen in
The Witch, and you go, holy crap, who's that right?
So that's one a young one. But then you also
get people who are not young, and you watch inglorious
bastards and you're introduced to Christophe Waltz and I turned
(32:16):
to my wife, Ago, that guy's winning the Academy Award
this year, and he did. So it's super fun when
you when you see that. Yeah, who were your for?
People that really influence Paul Newman? Paul Newman, But you're
casting the Sundance Kid, the Staying Robert Redford. Um, you know,
Electric Horseman, Three Days The Condor, Dustin Hoffman, A marathon Man.
(32:40):
I mean, these were the movies Alpaccino, Appaccino, Godfather and
Dog Day Afternoon, Don Day Afternoon, de Niro in Raging
Bull and Deer Hunter, Debrah Winger, Officer and a Gentleman. Right,
is amazing, Like that movie. I saw it again the
other day. It's so good. Richard gear In that it's
(33:04):
sexy any thing. They had sex scenes in those days, right,
you know, it's like your sex scenes in your movies.
I remember you had sex scenes. Oh, I would are
you had too many sex scenes? Right? Well, only because
you're in the body you're in, I mean you. And
by the way, the sex scenes are always on page
seventy three. I don't know why because I think seventy
(33:27):
three is the middle of act two, And as any
writer will tell you, middle of act two is where
things get a little slow. Okay, so that's where I
would always go to page I'm just telling you. Look
at any script from like Vision Quest, like the sort
of teen. Yes, that's the one where page seventy three,
(33:48):
somebody has to get naked, and usually it was made.
Did you ever have a sex scene that it was
like just gone all wrong? There was like chemistry wasn't
there that people didn't which was like I had. I
had sex scenes with people who I thought, oh, this
is gonna be off the chain and it was like me.
And then it also had the scenes where I was like, yeah,
(34:13):
this is whatever the and I was like why going on?
So you just and you never it never You just
never know, and it just speaks to chemistry. It really
proves it's not about the physical necessarily. I mean, there's
a great pa seeing Paul Newman. You know, Paul Newman
used to say to actresses before sex scenes. He says,
if I get aroused, I hope you'll forgive me, and
(34:37):
also forgive me if I don't. There you go. You
never know who's going to show up at the Sunset Tower.
But fresh off the plane from New York City, my
bestie Andy Cohen walks up, grabs some French fries and
heckles us over my shoulder. Show pull pull up a
(35:06):
mic when I was talking about are you letting roth
of a word in? Yes, totally, of course. No, we
just we just talked about the Battle of the Network stars.
Oh my god, it's my favorite competed on Battle of
the Network. Even better. I went, I went and watched
it in red dolphin shorts and no shirts. Oh and
(35:27):
there the picture exists. Sadly, Wow, sadly, Who woman, I'm
fifteen and I look like Christie McNichol with their top off?
What woman do you remember seeing that caught your eye
at the Network? Oh? All of them? Because it was
what I now realized, it was just an excuse to
(35:48):
have nipples showing for bathing suits. It was literally only
you know, if you ever listened to clips of it now,
Howard Cosell's commentary is so sexist and offense defense. It
isn't just everything that he's like a dirty old man. Yeah,
but the year that I wi went multiple years because
(36:10):
they they shot at a pepperdine and I feel yeah,
so I went one year because Chevy Chase was going
to be in it. He was my hero. He did
not show. And then I went one yeares he Farah
fawce at Majors. Oh my god, that's worth the trup
And did you see her? I did? Wow? And did
you ever know her later in your life when you
(36:32):
became famous? I did? I remember at right at Spago
one time in the eighties when Ryan O'Neill and Farah
walked in this day with the most beautiful couple I'd
ever seen walk into her room. Wow, like there absolute
height of their beauty. It was insane. Okay, I'm gonna
go get a drink and let you guys be I'm
gonna be at the bar, all right. Good to see you,
(36:53):
all right, see you never know at the tower at
the town. This is you know, your wife is amazing.
You have a very long relationship, married thirty two years.
Y is one of the coolest women out. Thank you.
(37:16):
She was super excited that is coming to hang with you.
This is awesome and we connect. How do you keep
a marriage in Hollywood in that form? How do you
you know? Because it's hard. I think it's it's hard.
Any It's hard anywhere, right, I mean, it is not
just Hollywood, it's everywhere. Marriage is hard, and it's it
can be hard. It's not hard. If we're hard, nobody
(37:36):
would do it right. It can be hard and will
be hard. Um. I have a couple thoughts. One of
it one is that it's it's all about who you choose.
You know, I chose schl was, was and is my
best friend. So if you marry for anything other than
the fact that it's your best friend, you're you're at
a disadvantage from the jump, because that will sustain when
(38:00):
the other stuff ebbs and flows exactly. People say marriage
takes work. I'm not sure if it takes work, But
but what it does take us forgiveness and being really
cognizant of what hill you're willing to die on. That
is sage. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. It
takes staying in the room. Yes, because if you leave
(38:24):
the room, just stay in the room when it ebbs
and flows. Yes, when you you know you got to
stay in the room, you definitely have to stay in
the room. And and then I think that there's a sense,
maybe on the outside, when when one looks at a
long marriage and goes, oh it's been they're blast true
(38:47):
and it's a perfect marriage. And there's nothing that's perfect, right.
And I think the minute things go south for whatever reason,
it could be any any many, many, many, many reasons.
I think people can go, oh, I knew it, this
is this is bad, this is a mistake. The marriages
that work don't have it. Everybody has those dark periods
(39:11):
and and when they come and they do. Just like
a career. Yeah, everybody has periods where it's not happening
right like you would like it. You know, life is
like that, it's ebbs and flows. You just can't bail
on the ebbs, right because eventually it will turn around
if you're with the right person, right, if you stay
in it, it will last because it's unique. And you, guys,
(39:32):
you could feel your chemistry still. We you know, we
were together a couple of months ago, right, and you
feel it and you're I think you're right. If you're
lucky enough to fall in love with your best friend,
if a person who becomes you know, you have to
have the heat. I do believe you need. You need
the heat for sure. And yeah, if you don't have
the heat, that's a chemical thing. Yeah, that's like I
(39:54):
still have it with Cheryl. I mean, and you got
to keep the heat. You got to keep the heat.
That ebbs and flows two. It's not like but when
that comes into those two there there are times when
you're just like ah, and then all of a sudden
you're just like a wild for somebody. Russ. It's one
of the great human mysteries. What's coming up for you?
(40:16):
So we have Unstable, So Unstable is I can't wait
to I really can't wait to see you so um
it's it's out now because Unstables out now streaming on netflixix.
By the way, it's the breeziest, quickest, lightest, feel good romp.
You can watch the entire season of Unstable in less
(40:37):
time than it took you to watch The Irishman. That's
my that's my selling points. I could feel it and
you feel it. I could feel it. I mean that's
the reason I watched the trailer three times. Yeah, like wise,
um lone start coming back for season five. It's amazing.
It's so much fun. And you know, the Ryan world
(40:58):
is a great world. Rand Murphy world is a world
to be in. We are just I just finished season
three of the podcast. I think we're we're closing in
on two hundred episodes. Wow, And what do you love
about that? I love this, I love what we're doing. Yeah,
I love I love going down rabbit holes. You know,
(41:18):
the long form interview very few people do. Podcast is
where long form interviews live. So that's why I love it.
And I'm very curious. So I like having people on
to learn from them. But I also like having people
on that I know, But I also know that the
public does not know them in a way that I
(41:40):
know them, and I want to bring that part out.
Like a good example for it is Maria Shriver and
Oprah and I've had them both on the podcast, and
Maria is one of the smartest, eloquent, dignified former First
Ladies Kennedy. But she's really funny and can like giggle
(42:04):
and let her hair down and do that, but you
never You're not seeing that when she hosts the Today Show, right,
And the same with Oprah. To get Oprah laughing and
doing her thing is like, you have to know somebody
to bring that out. Same with Gwyneth. People have a
very specific opinion of Gwyneth Paltrow. Right, And then I
ever on my podcast and she's talking about how my
(42:24):
wife taught her to give a blowjob. By way true story,
the sun is setting in the Golden Hour descends upon us.
I see the magic in Rob's blue eyes, and my
seventeen year old self could never have dreamed that one
evening I would be having dinner with Soda Popcortis. As
(42:48):
we celebrate the fortieth anniversary of The Outsiders, I just
want to say, stay gold pony boy. What would you
consider your greatest professional achievement professional? Yeah, I like to
think that it is. It's my longevity. Yeah, and that
(43:11):
I like as we sit here, I'm shooting a drama
and action drama nine one lone Star, right, we're in
our fourth year, and then also on Netflix have this
hard comedy Romp and that I get to go between
those worlds and is that's for me and the thing
(43:34):
that makes me the happiest Because a lot of folks
only get to do either drama or comedy and don't
get to do both. I feel like you've done. I mean,
you've been in theater in the West End. You from
the eyes of a teenager when I first was introduced
to to sort of see this longevity, to see each
the decades of your war. I think you're right, it's
(43:54):
not that's not normal. I mean I think that if
you go back and you know, part of like hearing
your story, all the TV shows and the things that
we grew up with a lot of those people no
one knows. And you know what, Here's the other part
I love is I never know when someone approaches me
(44:14):
what they're going to ask about. Right, Like there's a
world in which an actor is known for one for
one thing, or two, right, or maybe three. But like
I was in what a room Jordan in the middle
of the desert, and they say, we have surprise visitors coming,
(44:36):
and I look up and then there's a caravan of
black SUVs coming out of the desert. We're one hundred
miles from anywhere. It's the Prince of Jordan. It's coming
to say hello to me. He's brought his wife and
two kids, because the two kids are huge fans of
The Low Files, which is an obscure adventure series I
(44:57):
did with my sons on any So you just don't
know right where it's gonna hit. You never know. That's crazy,
it's crazy, it's crazy. I think for me today tonight
because we're having dinner, which is great. Getting to know
you over the years and spending time with you, I've
(45:18):
been not only such a fan, but I admire you.
I think you know how you live your life with
such integrity and with intention. You're a cool cat, so
nice keep talking. It makes me feel below. So I
just want to say everyone, I hope you enjoyed this conversation.
I hope you enjoyed kidding me. This is great. I
couldn't wait to do it. Thank you everyone for pulling
(45:38):
up a chair on Table for two. Table for two
with Bruce Bozzy is produced by iHeart Radio seven three
seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce Bozzi,
Jonathan Hoss, Dressler and Nathan King. Table for two is
(45:59):
edited and written by Tina Mullen and researched and written
by Bridget arsenalt Our sound engineers are Emil B. Klein,
Paul Bowman and Alyssa Midcaff. Table for two's la production
team is Danielle Romo and Lorraine Virez. Our music supervisor
is Randall Poster. Our talent booking is by Jane Sarkin.
Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Cher, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer,
(46:23):
Alison Cantor, Graber and Barbour, and Jen and Jeff Klein,
and the staff at the Tower Bar in the world
famous Sunset Tower Hotel. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
I am so excited. We are at the Sunset Tower Hotel. However,
it is not lunch, it is dinner time, and therefore
I am dressed in a black velvet armani blazer, trying
to be all like, you know, sultry sexy for Hollywood tonight,
because we're having a meal with an incredible guy, a
guy that you've seen in many movies and television shows
(00:27):
throughout the decades. Hi, allright, it looked very dashing tonight,
do I Yeah, he's eternally youthful. He's been rocking it
since the eighties, right through the nineteen nineties, two thousands.
He's an actor, a writer, a podcaster. What do you
eat to the town? Very hungry? Perfect? What is your
(00:48):
go to here? I tend to do a stake when
I'm I'm going to do the same. We are having
dinner tonight with mister Roblow. So pull up a chair,
grab a glass of rose, and we'll be back soon.
I'm Bruce Bozzi and this is my podcast Table for two.
(01:10):
I just want to hit upon because I happened to
watch the trailer for Unstable. Yes, Rob has a new
show which will be a number one Netflix show, just
like The last one was with your son, John Owen.
Lowe called on a stable and I gotta say, the
trailer is so fucking funny. Oh good, and it's funny.
It's great. Okay, it's great. Can you tell us about that?
(01:33):
And working with your son and the whole fame. So
the genesis of the whole thing was I have two sons,
Matthew who's twenty nine and works in finance now and
John Owen, who is a writer and actor. And he
would troll me on my Instagram, just bust my chops, relentless,
relentless busting of chops, just saying, Dad, don't do this, Dad,
(01:55):
don't do that. Go on my Instagram and go back
and look and you will see what he what he's
it's he's super witty. Yeah, and really really he's very
good the way he delivers lines. Yeah, he's got good timings. Yeah.
So he started doing that and just to bust my chops.
There was there was no agenda to it. There was
he just was doing it as something as a goof
(02:17):
on his old dad. And people started noticing it, and
people started commenting on it, and it got to the
point where when I would do an interview. Whether it
was for Ellen or Jimmy Kimmel or Good Morning America,
didn't matter who. They always wanted to ask about John
Owen and how he trolls me. Right, And finally got
(02:38):
to the point where John Owen and I sort of thinking,
people are wanting this and enjoying it. Is there what
could we possibly do with it as a as a
project or something? And I thought, well, we're not going
to do a reality show about our relationship, but is
there something about the relationship that we can transpose and
make a show out of? And that became unstable. You know.
(03:01):
I took some of the some of my qualities and
put them on steroids, right, And John Owen basically plays
himself right, and it just is a super funny, fun
father son comedy. Was it hard working with your son?
Is it difficult? Is its great? Oh? It's great. It's
heaven because both my boys. I feel like worth three
(03:25):
people with the same brain. Okay, wow, you know all
content is so subjective, you know, art, whatever it is.
And to have someone who's a partner with you, who
has the exact same taste, I can delegate things to him,
he can delegate things to me. As as producers, and
(03:46):
I like, I know, if new pages are written on
the script, if he likes them, I know I'll like them.
Or if he doesn't like them, I know I'm gonna
like it even less. You know, we grew up exactly
at the same time, and you and you talk about
it so much in your warre and I want to
talk about California in the seventies and the eighties and
just my favorite sub the parenting that didn't and did happen.
(04:08):
But I one of the things that I do this
with my kid too, is we're sort of silly. We
grew up in a time where we'd get on our
bikes and we'd go out until it got dark, and
our parents never asked where we were, didn't know where
we were, and it didn't care where we're here. And
so there's a freedom and a sort of zest for life.
(04:31):
And I think it informs the sort of joada vive
of certainly of my character my worldview, right. I think
the Jadevi is key you really want to treat the
audible is amazing of your book. Hearing you actually, you know,
talk about that time and the move from Dayton to
Malibu and then everything that went down, the buses you
(04:53):
had to take to the parents that didn't exist. And
there's so much humor in your point of view in
it even being like where you were allowed to sit
on the bus. Oh yeah, you weren't allowed to sit
on the bus. So I was never a cool kid,
so I couldn't sit with the I find that so
hard to believe. Like, no, no, man, listen, I wasn't.
I wasn't a surfer then. I only learned to surf
(05:13):
in my forties. I came to Malibu at thirteen, and
you they weren't going to let a thirteen year old
Ohio kid. They were meet the shit out of you. Wow,
Like if you were from the Valley and you tried
to surf there, they'd slash your tires. Really, it's a
real no fool and territorial surf gangs. And they weren't
going some kid, right go out and surf. So I
(05:36):
never learned. But Malibu then was was a very very
different thing than it was than than it is now.
It was really rugged, yeah, super rugged. Now you get
this that feel and sort of and very sort of
you know, working class. It was like Fireman and cops. Yeah,
what's so special about you, Rob Is you kind of like, yeah,
(05:57):
I want to be an actor and I'm going to
figure this out and I could beat up today. But
they didn't appreciate me being an actor. Even I came
from Ohio. They thought I was really crazy wanting to
be an actor. I get to California to I think
everybody it's the bastion of show business. And they didn't
like it either, right, they just did. It was like
(06:17):
when you go back to Ohio to be and you
were like, oh, maybe like Peanut Butter and Jelly is
gonna be like performing it. I was in a a
Kid's All Star review in Ohio when I was ten
eleven twelve called Peanut Butter and Jelly and we would
do covers I think somebody's saying You're so vain by
(06:38):
Carly Simon. But we also did original pieces and we
would like do play at the malls and the opening
of things, and like, we didn't play like bar Mitzva's,
but it was very close, right. We didn't playing in
barn Mitchens. They weren't a Jewish. We would have played right.
But I thought that was like the beginning of my
big break that I was in Peanut, Butter and Jelly.
(07:00):
What a great name. As lame as the name is
is as lame as my memory of it was. But boy,
I thought it was now. But I love it because
you tell a story of going back and you're like
miserable going back something to Ohio and then you call
up the guy. I was like, hey, we say as
peot Butter Jelly. Still, it was like it was like
Fleetwood Mac. So as Fleetwood Mac getting back together. Man,
we gonna we're gonna go on the road. We're gonna
(07:21):
play the Dayton Mall. And they just were like, no, kid,
that's it's over. There's a little life. You're done. You know,
I know a lot about Rob's career because just being
basically the same age I watch, and there was a
lot of influences of your movies and things that were
(07:41):
going on, your reference sort of growing up in Malibu
and the kids and the freedom. How did you figure
that out with Sheryl, with your boys, because the world
changed so much. The world did change. I mean, no
no parent today is gonna let their kid go on
an audition from Mali Boo into Hollywood taking three buses
(08:03):
by themselves, by themselves at twelve, right, it's not going
to happen. So when I had kids, I tried to
give them as from as much freedom as I could.
And the main thing I did was, there's always going
to be that cool house that everybody wants to hang
out at, and I decided it would be mine. Yeah, key,
because they can keep an eye on everybody. When I
was young, it was the Sheen's house, but Martin was
(08:24):
always on location, right, So Rob grew up literally next
to Martin Sheen and Janet she Martin and Emilio Esteva's
and Charlie Sheen. We were all friends and there's the
cool house because they're cool people. But they also had
a pool. They had an amazing pool. So I recreated
that with my house, so all the kids were there
(08:45):
all the time. I know all my my boys friends.
So you have the intel. Yeah, you have the behind
the scenes. Otherwise you're not getting it because they're not
going to give it up to you. But if you
kind of witness it, then you're It's it's very helpful
as a parent. You talk about and I find I
found it so devastating. So you talk about those group
of kids that you were growing up with they all
(09:06):
died horribly. Yeah, we had in my junior high, my
junior I was three grades, was the seventh grade, eighth grade,
ninth grade, junior high. Seven hundred kids probably right, and
there were at least seven deaths, And like, if that
happened today, it'd be like an international news story completely,
(09:28):
it'd be like what's going on? And nobody cared. It
was just like it was just a different time. But
you know, a lot of them were drug overdoses. A
lot of them were tragic freak accidents. Yeah, but all
of them were because of the lack of parent oversight,
access to drugs, and the behavior that unsupervised kids will
(09:53):
have that put you in a position to have a
freak accident. Yeah, you lay that out, I think kind
of perfectly with those like three things that come into
play as far as what's responsible for that, because clearly
there's still an issue going on with kids that are
doing and they're dying from fetanol overdoses, and kids don't
have the freedom that they used to. But what I
(10:13):
feel from your growing up was a kid that knew
who he wanted to be, how to get there, how
to figure out how to get there, to be a kid,
to be able to take three buses to go to
an audition that, like you said, at that age, at
that age, which is a thirty second audition for a commercial,
it's like, okay, you know, turnaround, but name great, go home.
(10:35):
And it's like I knew what I wanted to do.
I knew who I wanted to be, and it was
a blessing. It gave me a focus. I didn't have
to struggle. And I see so many almost everybody, you know,
at a certain point of going what am I going
to do with my life? And you know, I just
didn't have that experience. It's hard for me. I empathize
with it, huh, But I don't relate to it because
(10:58):
I didn't have that. I was just a completely driven,
single focused. You were amazing. You tell the story A
little heartbreaking. Was Telly Savalis in the department store story? Yeah?
When I was still living in Dayton in the mid seventies,
there was nobody bigger than Kojack, nobody nobody. I wanted
to be an actor. And I read in the paper
(11:19):
that Telly Savalis is going to be appearing at the
Reichs department store on the eighth floor next to the
women's lingerie, and I was like what, So I take
the bus again with the buses, and then there's another one.
I'm ten years old and hey, mom, I wanted to
some Hollywood actor down at the department. Yeah. Great, So
(11:40):
I go down there. I wait in like a four
hour line to get his autograph. I finally get to
the front of the line and they shut the line down.
It's time for him to go. And I'm super bumped
because I bought him a lollipop because Kojack his bit
was he always sucked a lollipop. And I think he
has taggin who loves you baby? Who loves your baby?
With his like blowpop or whatever it was. And and
(12:01):
I'm like all of ten and I and I I
grab one of the guys by the coat and excuse me,
circuit you, maybe you could just give this lollipop to
mistress of policy. Yeah, your kid, absolutely, And he turns
to walk away and he throws it in the trash
and I was so like heartbroken, and I just remember it.
I've never forgotten it. I think about it all the
(12:22):
time in terms of dealing with people who come up
to me. I was at once a fan of somebody's
and so I don't have to try too. It's in
my nature. I always enjoy meeting people because I remember
it vividly what it's like to be a fan of somebody's. Yeah, no,
I don't want to throw anybody's lollipop in the trash.
(13:01):
We're back today is a special one for me on
Table for two with the beautiful Rob below. Rob's four
decade career wasn't always easy, and in nineteen eighty two
he nearly walked away. But just a year later, Francis
Ford Copoli's adaptation of the Outsiders changed Rob's life forever.
Let's jump back into our dinner. You know, your memoir
(13:25):
really goes deep into the audition process and then the
actual shooting process with Francis Ford Coppolo, which is like
crazy what he made you guys do, and like because
that was like the first really big moment my first movie.
That was your first movie. I've done a sitcom on
ABC and I played like the Teenager the Teenage Son
(13:46):
when it ran for like six episodes and was canceled. Um.
And then I've done some after school specials. If you
remember those Wednesdays on yours it was a big deal.
It was a big one. Yeah, it was. It was.
It was an important moment for me. But I yeah,
I'd never done a movie. And you know, sitcoms and
(14:09):
natter school specials are not movies, right, and they're certainly
not Frances for Coppola. And you know Coppola at that
still one of our great filmmakers. Yeah, at that moment,
he was you know, he was only a few years
off of making Apocalypse Now, right, and you know, and
of course got The Godfathers. And so here's this very
very lauded, serious filmmaker doing a movie where all the
(14:33):
roles are fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year olds, right, and you know,
all the kid actors were like this, this is the
it's the goal. The Willie Wonka gold tickets. Yeah, that
everybody wanted. And and you talk about the auditions and
you reference in the auditions. So there's the West Coast
guys that are auditioning and the New York actors. Right.
(14:54):
I love this because he really makes you work for this.
The West Coast actors were you Amelia Amelio. Weirdly enough,
Tom because he was staying out here with Amelia. So
Cruz was out here even though he was East Coast
pony Boy Tommy Howe. And then we went to the
East Coast and that's where Matt Dillon was, Ralph Maccio played,
(15:18):
and we went through this whole process months, months of auditions,
months and months and months and months, and then he
picked his favorites. And then he took us to New
York and it was the same thing there, but it
was months. It was, you know, a week and then
but we did. I mean, there's more filmed footage of
us auditioning than there probably is of us making the
(15:39):
actual movie. Actually, if you go on YouTube you can
see it. You see some really great early stuff. So
the process of that film, when your sons look at
that movie, what was their reaction to that movie? Well,
I'm not sure how much of anything of mine my
sons have actually seen. Really. I know, John Owen is
(16:00):
never seen the West Wing. Really, this is what it's
it's become a bit now now now that's his professional
calling card. Of course he doesn't really know, right, right,
And I actually do think they've all seen The Outsiders because,
much to their mortification, they had to read the book
and see the movie in class. Right, it is that's
(16:22):
seventh grade. It's in the curriculum across the country the
most part. And there's nothing I love more than going
into a seventh grade class right after they've seen the
movie or and read the book and talking to them.
I love it. I love it because I love kids,
but also it's a new crop of fans. I mean
(16:42):
to be able to you know, the key to longevity
is you can't if your audience ages out. Yeah you're done.
You're done. So the key to a long career is
if you're lucky enough to figure it out. Having a
new crop of people discover you every year. And the
outsiders does that right by design? That's interesting. Did you
hear from those young people all the time? I see,
(17:05):
I still have fourteen fifteen year olds come up to
me and freak because it's soda pop Curt please, I freaked.
What was the toughest part when you were in production
with that? The night shoots? You know, I mean I
never made a movie, so the notion of shooting all
night right in the rain, and the fight the big
(17:25):
rumble scene was a whole week of shooting all at
night with freezing cold, no dressing rooms, no, no Francis
was very mercurial. He would treat the cast great and
then wouldn't provide any anywhere for us to get warm. Right.
I love that. I didn't know this if Frances when
you run into Darren Dalton, who plays a soy in
(17:47):
the elevator and you're with Tommy Howell and you guys
are on one floor and in the hotel, the socias,
if you watch this movie, they have like access to
a gym and room service. I love that whole And
the best part of it was it didn't work. Though,
the best part it was it's still the outsiders. Everybody
wants to be a greaser. Everyone, every one of those
(18:09):
socials would like like, I'll do without the room service,
I'll do without the suite. I'd rather have the better part.
So that's always my I mean, Francis had all of
these great social engineering experiments he wanted to try. He
had us playing tackle football in the street, and I'll
(18:29):
never forget Tommy Howell play pony boy. His dad was
one of the great stuntman, Chris Howell, the legendary stuntman,
so Tommy knew his way around even though he's only fifteen.
He huddled this up, and so listen, I'm calling this game.
We're done here. If I break my leg on this
next football play, I'll be on the next flight home
and somebody else will be playing Pony my favorite thing. Though,
(18:50):
Francis wanted us to learn about being greasers by talking
to people who were greasers in the fifties. So me
and Cruz were hooked up with this family and I
had to go spend the night at their house and
the basements, and I can just remember lying in this
cot in the basement of a house in Tulsa with
a with a family I never knew, and just looking
(19:11):
over at Tom and going, what the what the fuck
are we doing? It was I mean, I understand why
Francis did it, I get it, but it was It's
very odd and not the way most people make movies.
Is that sort of methody in a way, and also
odd because you guys were young. But I realized the
only letter when I read I think it's easy Rider
(19:32):
Raging Bulls so the great book about movie making. Yeah,
in the seventies and eighties, that Francis had lost the
money for the movie and or it had an all.
So he was like vamping smart, so he's like, yeah,
giving himself time. He also we would make us wake
up at six in the morning and do tai chi
on the location. And I could never figure out what
(19:55):
doing tai chi had to do with playing in nineteen
fifties grease sir, but whatever, you know, that's Francis said.
He he's a genius. I mean he beats to his
own drum. So if you had to like think back then,
if you had to sort of say, think of an
(20:18):
adjective for each person that you were with, Like if
you if I said, Swayzie, like what is he's a mind?
He was a true renaissance man. He was a professional
ballet dancer. He was a rodeo champion. He was a songwriter.
There's there's wasn't a job that he hadn't had. There
(20:41):
wasn't anything that he wasn't good at. He was a gymnast.
He was just one of those guys. It was like
anything you mentioned, yeah, did that, Yeah, and he had right.
There wasn't like, Hey, this guy that as Scott up
twenty seven times, he's just one of those guys. Yeah,
it seems like a really great guy. Good guy. He
(21:02):
was a great guy in super intense, Like, but if
you could harness Swayzy and cruise energy, we could light
the world for a thousand years. So okay, let's go
to cruise. Cruise seemed like ambitious, ambitious hands never met
anybody more ambitious, and I'm ambitious. He makes me look
like a Hackey Sack plan doper with a pork pie
(21:27):
hat on in Brooklyn. Now did he take that tooth
out purposely? Yes? That was intense. Yeah, I mean, like
I remember the tooth out. It was there's a lot
of one up in going on. It was like, right,
the only way that any of us got the parts
where it was killer be killed. So the people who
(21:47):
figured out a way to stand out got the parts.
That's what Frances wanted. Pitted everybody against everybody, and so
sure it was hopefully in theory the best actors one,
but I've always thought it was it was the people
who had who could stand the pressure and who could
find a way to score. And Tom's part of Steve
(22:08):
Randall is not a huge part, but you know, Tom
being Tom was like ambitious and you know, I remember all.
France has also thought that we should all be gymnasts
for some reason you talk. And so we had to
learn how to do backflips. And so, I don't know
if you've ever tried to learn how to do a backflip.
It's not fun and it's scary as shit. You feel
like you're gonna break your neck. Yes, and I was
(22:30):
not good. None of us are particularly swayzy. Of course,
already knew how to do it right, because he knows
how to do everything. But Tom took it. So and
if you see The Outsiders and then there's the movies playing,
and the movie just stops dead and Tom does a
backflip off of a card, and then the movie continues
right which and in that so it starts with Tom
doing a backflip and the Outsiders it and ends with
(22:52):
Tom shooting a movie in the space station, which he's
doing next. We started a very serious trend for him.
You really did. Yeah. So now Matt Dylan, who seemed
kind of brooding and intense, he's like the New York
He was Francis's favorite. He was Francis was in love
with them, really so much so that when the movie
came out, we were making the book an exact replica
(23:14):
of the book. And when the movie came out, it
was all centered on Matt's character, so they cut a
lot of what we shot and about I think about
fifteen years ago, they re cut The Outsiders to what
we actually know what. It's called The Outsiders the Complete Novel,
and that is now sort of what everybody watches. But
that original version is a extremely truncated and it was
(23:38):
really shocking for all of us when we saw it
because not what we did, but it was Francis's desire
to focus totally on the Matt Dylan character so beacting
when the movie came out that that would be the
way it was. Never I will never. I've never fully
gotten over seeing theatrical nineteen eighty three version of The
(24:02):
Outsiders for the first time because all my stuff was
basically cut no way. I mean, I still have a
presence in the movie. That's good and yeah, but one
of the reasons they cut it was and this is
just shows you how far we've all come. One of
my favorite scenes I've ever done cut from the original
film is pony Boy and I in bed together thinking
about our parents and holding each other right. And when
(24:24):
they showed it in the theaters, all of the thirteen
fourteen year old boys were so uncomfortable by it that
they kind of made a ruck us and they cut.
They cut that scene, and then I think, once you
cut that scene, you start cutting the fan. But it's
a really beautiful scene and it's in the Outsiders, the
novel super sweet? Is it in the longer? Noways? Okay?
(24:46):
I watch this great? Are you friends with the guys
from the outside? When I was roasted on Comedy Central,
which is one of my favorite things, by the way,
it's the meanest roast in the history, the best sense
of you. It's so fun. I can take it, and
I condition this is rough. Natchio was on My Dais
(25:07):
to rest me. So I see Ralph Amelia I haven't
seen a long time. He and I were best friends
for years and years and years, and Diane Blaine and
I are always I've seen her around. I did my
one man show in Atlanta and Tommy Howell came and
(25:27):
I brought him up on stage. But it's we don't
really see each other though. I mean, I haven't seen
a lot of them in years and years, and it's
not kind of like life. It is, well, it's kind of,
but there's always that bond. It's like, I'm sure. It's
like when you're together, it's like you're it's like you
never Yeah, And I don't know how if you if
you suffer from this, like when incredible things happen to
(25:47):
you and time goes by, you begin to question your
own memory because it's so outrageous and see that could
possibly have happened. And then you it's like you do
with your guy with a brother, and I go, remember
what mom did? Did she really needs it? Yeah? Because
you question your youth. Yeah, and so chab Rob's brother
(26:09):
who I know. I love job, super nice guy. It's
like you need a witness in life. Yes, having a witness,
Having a sibling that witnesses all of it so helpful.
You do get to a point where you're like, wait,
did that really happen. I'm gonna do that with the outsiders.
I'm gonna be like, did we really shoot from twenty
four consecutive hours? Yeah? Right? Did we? Did Francis really
(26:35):
have a rap party every Friday night, every Friday, every Friday,
sushi flown in China, eating on China. This is hop
This doesn't happen now. By the way, we also shout
the movie in complete continuity, which is unheard of. You
don't do like so when you make a movie, you
shoot each location all the way out. So but there
(26:55):
scenes an in a house that and you go in
and you watch the movie in the houses throughout the movie,
you shoot that house everything in it, and then you
go We shot the entire movie and continuity. So if
there was a scene in the house, we shot that,
and then if in the script we went to a lake,
we shot the lake, and then if there was a
scene and that, we went back to the house, and
then we had a better process. I thought it was great.
(27:18):
Frances did it? I think to help us as actors? Well,
how did it? Field would be kind of labeled the
Brat Pack, like what was that at the time? That time? Good?
I mean, I thought it was cool, but I don't know,
I wasn't. Well that's what I realized quicker than a
lot of the other people in the Brat Pack was
to to the world large. Yeah, they thought it was cool,
(27:38):
but if you read the article that it was based on,
it was absolutely meant as a pejorative right, and a
sort of dismissive catch all for you know, callo ambition soaked.
You know, Hollywood operators, you know, who are just spending
(28:01):
as much time partying as they did with their craft.
That's absolutely what it meant. And the industry certainly got
that message. And so within the confidence of Hollywood and
New York it meant one thing, right, But in the
world it meant something else. And you know, I very
quickly got to the point where I realized that I
was like, how great? But there were other other folks
(28:24):
who to this day won't talk about some of those
movies because they were so they felt so pigeonholed by
that name. Right. But you know, like, I've had a
ton of therapy over my years, and you realize that
that people's perception is none of your business. Thanks for
(29:00):
pulling up a chair tonight, everyone, movie star, TV star,
podcaster and author. But that doesn't mean you get everything.
It was a show he was obsessed with as a teenager.
He never got to be on Did you ever do
in the day? There was the thing that they used
to do on ABC, The Battle The Network Stars. Oh,
(29:21):
listen to me, I'm obsessed with Battle Network Stars. I
went to The Battle Network Stars multiple times. You did oh?
Did they do it up? In like on the beach
if you it's a very embarrassing shot of me that
exists on Google and my red dolphin shorts. Come on,
anybody can pull them off, no shirt. And I'm sitting
(29:45):
on the endfield of the Battle of the Network Stars.
I think I want I wanted to go and see
Fara Fawcett majors at that time, right, um. But by
the time I was well known that that era was over,
was done. Yeah, So the Battle of Network Stars was
literally the biggest thing out. It was like the Oscars.
Oh no, yeah, everyone tuned in and it was all
(30:06):
these actors from the different networks competing against each other. Today,
I was thinking, how you would do today? But today
it would it would be like it would have to
be like from Ozark Jason Bateman, he would be pulling
a tug of war with the cast of Succession, um
and you know the cast of Veep in the realist
(30:29):
like it would be. That's what it would have to be,
that level the Game of Thrones. People in the dump tank.
Do you think celebrity and stars have changed for sure? Right?
I mean, what would it have been like if you
could see anytime you wanted on TMZ, Marilyn Monroe with
(30:53):
her yoga mat rolled up under her arm, James Dean
coming out of Airwan, Steve McClean, Yeah, Steve me. Just
there's no mystery and now you know you have it
on TMZ, you have everybody has Instagram and there's just
no mystery anywhere. And I'm not sure if it's a
good thing or a bad thing, but I know that
(31:14):
it has. It's changed how people perceive stars, and it's
harder for young people who are just starting out to
achieve the kind of career where they transcend any individual
(31:35):
part they're playing. Are there people that are resonating with
you that you're like, wow, this is someone to watch.
I remember not all of them are young, but there
are people that you see for the first time and go,
oh my god. Yeah. I remember watching one of my
favorite moves is The Witch, and seeing Anya Taylor Joy
(31:55):
in that and she's going on to have this amazing career,
and I think she was probably all of seventeen in
The Witch, and you go, holy crap, who's that right?
So that's one a young one. But then you also
get people who are not young, and you watch inglorious
bastards and you're introduced to Christophe Waltz and I turned
(32:16):
to my wife, Ago, that guy's winning the Academy Award
this year, and he did. So it's super fun when
you when you see that. Yeah, who were your for?
People that really influence Paul Newman? Paul Newman, But you're
casting the Sundance Kid, the Staying Robert Redford. Um, you know,
Electric Horseman, Three Days The Condor, Dustin Hoffman, A marathon Man.
(32:40):
I mean, these were the movies Alpaccino, Appaccino, Godfather and
Dog Day Afternoon, Don Day Afternoon, de Niro in Raging
Bull and Deer Hunter, Debrah Winger, Officer and a Gentleman. Right,
is amazing, Like that movie. I saw it again the
other day. It's so good. Richard gear In that it's
(33:04):
sexy any thing. They had sex scenes in those days, right,
you know, it's like your sex scenes in your movies.
I remember you had sex scenes. Oh, I would are
you had too many sex scenes? Right? Well, only because
you're in the body you're in, I mean you. And
by the way, the sex scenes are always on page
seventy three. I don't know why because I think seventy
(33:27):
three is the middle of act two, And as any
writer will tell you, middle of act two is where
things get a little slow. Okay, so that's where I
would always go to page I'm just telling you. Look
at any script from like Vision Quest, like the sort
of teen. Yes, that's the one where page seventy three,
(33:48):
somebody has to get naked, and usually it was made.
Did you ever have a sex scene that it was
like just gone all wrong? There was like chemistry wasn't
there that people didn't which was like I had. I
had sex scenes with people who I thought, oh, this
is gonna be off the chain and it was like me.
And then it also had the scenes where I was like, yeah,
(34:13):
this is whatever the and I was like why going on?
So you just and you never it never You just
never know, and it just speaks to chemistry. It really
proves it's not about the physical necessarily. I mean, there's
a great pa seeing Paul Newman. You know, Paul Newman
used to say to actresses before sex scenes. He says,
if I get aroused, I hope you'll forgive me, and
(34:37):
also forgive me if I don't. There you go. You
never know who's going to show up at the Sunset Tower.
But fresh off the plane from New York City, my
bestie Andy Cohen walks up, grabs some French fries and
heckles us over my shoulder. Show pull pull up a
(35:06):
mic when I was talking about are you letting roth
of a word in? Yes, totally, of course. No, we
just we just talked about the Battle of the Network stars.
Oh my god, it's my favorite competed on Battle of
the Network. Even better. I went, I went and watched
it in red dolphin shorts and no shirts. Oh and
(35:27):
there the picture exists. Sadly, Wow, sadly, Who woman, I'm
fifteen and I look like Christie McNichol with their top off?
What woman do you remember seeing that caught your eye
at the Network? Oh? All of them? Because it was
what I now realized, it was just an excuse to
(35:48):
have nipples showing for bathing suits. It was literally only
you know, if you ever listened to clips of it now,
Howard Cosell's commentary is so sexist and offense defense. It
isn't just everything that he's like a dirty old man. Yeah,
but the year that I wi went multiple years because
(36:10):
they they shot at a pepperdine and I feel yeah,
so I went one year because Chevy Chase was going
to be in it. He was my hero. He did
not show. And then I went one yeares he Farah
fawce at Majors. Oh my god, that's worth the trup
And did you see her? I did? Wow? And did
you ever know her later in your life when you
(36:32):
became famous? I did? I remember at right at Spago
one time in the eighties when Ryan O'Neill and Farah
walked in this day with the most beautiful couple I'd
ever seen walk into her room. Wow, like there absolute
height of their beauty. It was insane. Okay, I'm gonna
go get a drink and let you guys be I'm
gonna be at the bar, all right. Good to see you,
(36:53):
all right, see you never know at the tower at
the town. This is you know, your wife is amazing.
You have a very long relationship, married thirty two years.
Y is one of the coolest women out. Thank you.
(37:16):
She was super excited that is coming to hang with you.
This is awesome and we connect. How do you keep
a marriage in Hollywood in that form? How do you
you know? Because it's hard. I think it's it's hard.
Any It's hard anywhere, right, I mean, it is not
just Hollywood, it's everywhere. Marriage is hard, and it's it
can be hard. It's not hard. If we're hard, nobody
(37:36):
would do it right. It can be hard and will
be hard. Um. I have a couple thoughts. One of
it one is that it's it's all about who you choose.
You know, I chose schl was, was and is my
best friend. So if you marry for anything other than
the fact that it's your best friend, you're you're at
a disadvantage from the jump, because that will sustain when
(38:00):
the other stuff ebbs and flows exactly. People say marriage
takes work. I'm not sure if it takes work, But
but what it does take us forgiveness and being really
cognizant of what hill you're willing to die on. That
is sage. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. It
takes staying in the room. Yes, because if you leave
(38:24):
the room, just stay in the room when it ebbs
and flows. Yes, when you you know you got to
stay in the room, you definitely have to stay in
the room. And and then I think that there's a sense,
maybe on the outside, when when one looks at a
long marriage and goes, oh it's been they're blast true
(38:47):
and it's a perfect marriage. And there's nothing that's perfect, right.
And I think the minute things go south for whatever reason,
it could be any any many, many, many, many reasons.
I think people can go, oh, I knew it, this
is this is bad, this is a mistake. The marriages
that work don't have it. Everybody has those dark periods
(39:11):
and and when they come and they do. Just like
a career. Yeah, everybody has periods where it's not happening
right like you would like it. You know, life is
like that, it's ebbs and flows. You just can't bail
on the ebbs, right because eventually it will turn around
if you're with the right person, right, if you stay
in it, it will last because it's unique. And you, guys,
(39:32):
you could feel your chemistry still. We you know, we
were together a couple of months ago, right, and you
feel it and you're I think you're right. If you're
lucky enough to fall in love with your best friend,
if a person who becomes you know, you have to
have the heat. I do believe you need. You need
the heat for sure. And yeah, if you don't have
the heat, that's a chemical thing. Yeah, that's like I
(39:54):
still have it with Cheryl. I mean, and you got
to keep the heat. You got to keep the heat.
That ebbs and flows two. It's not like but when
that comes into those two there there are times when
you're just like ah, and then all of a sudden
you're just like a wild for somebody. Russ. It's one
of the great human mysteries. What's coming up for you?
(40:16):
So we have Unstable, So Unstable is I can't wait
to I really can't wait to see you so um
it's it's out now because Unstables out now streaming on netflixix.
By the way, it's the breeziest, quickest, lightest, feel good romp.
You can watch the entire season of Unstable in less
(40:37):
time than it took you to watch The Irishman. That's
my that's my selling points. I could feel it and
you feel it. I could feel it. I mean that's
the reason I watched the trailer three times. Yeah, like wise,
um lone start coming back for season five. It's amazing.
It's so much fun. And you know, the Ryan world
(40:58):
is a great world. Rand Murphy world is a world
to be in. We are just I just finished season
three of the podcast. I think we're we're closing in
on two hundred episodes. Wow, And what do you love
about that? I love this, I love what we're doing. Yeah,
I love I love going down rabbit holes. You know,
(41:18):
the long form interview very few people do. Podcast is
where long form interviews live. So that's why I love it.
And I'm very curious. So I like having people on
to learn from them. But I also like having people
on that I know, But I also know that the
public does not know them in a way that I
(41:40):
know them, and I want to bring that part out.
Like a good example for it is Maria Shriver and
Oprah and I've had them both on the podcast, and
Maria is one of the smartest, eloquent, dignified former First
Ladies Kennedy. But she's really funny and can like giggle
(42:04):
and let her hair down and do that, but you
never You're not seeing that when she hosts the Today Show, right,
And the same with Oprah. To get Oprah laughing and
doing her thing is like, you have to know somebody
to bring that out. Same with Gwyneth. People have a
very specific opinion of Gwyneth Paltrow. Right, And then I
ever on my podcast and she's talking about how my
(42:24):
wife taught her to give a blowjob. By way true story,
the sun is setting in the Golden Hour descends upon us.
I see the magic in Rob's blue eyes, and my
seventeen year old self could never have dreamed that one
evening I would be having dinner with Soda Popcortis. As
(42:48):
we celebrate the fortieth anniversary of The Outsiders, I just
want to say, stay gold pony boy. What would you
consider your greatest professional achievement professional? Yeah, I like to
think that it is. It's my longevity. Yeah, and that
(43:11):
I like as we sit here, I'm shooting a drama
and action drama nine one lone Star, right, we're in
our fourth year, and then also on Netflix have this
hard comedy Romp and that I get to go between
those worlds and is that's for me and the thing
(43:34):
that makes me the happiest Because a lot of folks
only get to do either drama or comedy and don't
get to do both. I feel like you've done. I mean,
you've been in theater in the West End. You from
the eyes of a teenager when I first was introduced
to to sort of see this longevity, to see each
the decades of your war. I think you're right, it's
(43:54):
not that's not normal. I mean I think that if
you go back and you know, part of like hearing
your story, all the TV shows and the things that
we grew up with a lot of those people no
one knows. And you know what, Here's the other part
I love is I never know when someone approaches me
(44:14):
what they're going to ask about. Right, Like there's a
world in which an actor is known for one for
one thing, or two, right, or maybe three. But like
I was in what a room Jordan in the middle
of the desert, and they say, we have surprise visitors coming,
(44:36):
and I look up and then there's a caravan of
black SUVs coming out of the desert. We're one hundred
miles from anywhere. It's the Prince of Jordan. It's coming
to say hello to me. He's brought his wife and
two kids, because the two kids are huge fans of
The Low Files, which is an obscure adventure series I
(44:57):
did with my sons on any So you just don't
know right where it's gonna hit. You never know. That's crazy,
it's crazy, it's crazy. I think for me today tonight
because we're having dinner, which is great. Getting to know
you over the years and spending time with you, I've
(45:18):
been not only such a fan, but I admire you.
I think you know how you live your life with
such integrity and with intention. You're a cool cat, so
nice keep talking. It makes me feel below. So I
just want to say everyone, I hope you enjoyed this conversation.
I hope you enjoyed kidding me. This is great. I
couldn't wait to do it. Thank you everyone for pulling
(45:38):
up a chair on Table for two. Table for two
with Bruce Bozzy is produced by iHeart Radio seven three
seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce Bozzi,
Jonathan Hoss, Dressler and Nathan King. Table for two is
(45:59):
edited and written by Tina Mullen and researched and written
by Bridget arsenalt Our sound engineers are Emil B. Klein,
Paul Bowman and Alyssa Midcaff. Table for two's la production
team is Danielle Romo and Lorraine Virez. Our music supervisor
is Randall Poster. Our talent booking is by Jane Sarkin.
Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Cher, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer,
(46:23):
Alison Cantor, Graber and Barbour, and Jen and Jeff Klein,
and the staff at the Tower Bar in the world
famous Sunset Tower Hotel. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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