April 3, 2017 • 41 mins
Tagline decamps to SXSW in Austin, Texas to capture a free-wheeling, music-filled episode with artist, activist and founding member of the Fugees, Wyclef Jean, outspoken Lava Records CEO and podcaster Jason Flom and Gap CMO Craig Brommers – all hosted by Adam Shlachter, President, Global Innovation, Publicis Media. The guests share frank tales of taking risks, winning (and losing) partnerships and the importance of leading with knowledge and intention, but allowing enough room for luck and serendipity too. Come for the insight, stay for the epic dialogue, delicious Bulleit cocktails and ‘Clef’s spontaneous performances.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed on the following program are
those of the persons appearing on the program and do
not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any of
the program's producers or partners. The only reason the Internet
even exists is for music and foreign right, and then
(00:20):
a little bit web md. Maybe to live for yourself
is to live selfishly, but to live for others is
to live in eternity. Welcome to Tagline or a cocktail
and join us for inspired conversations with the best storytellers,
culture makers, and creators from our friends at Bullet Frontier Whiskey.
(00:41):
Please drink responsibly. Given the world we live in right now,
people do want to have a little bit of joy
in their life again. Tagline is produced by I Heart
Radio and partnership with Advertising Age. Welcome to Taglet. I'm
Adams Factor, President of Global Innovation at POBS Media. I'm
(01:01):
also on day five in Austin at south By Southwest
and at this point I'm officially fifty percent Taco Bourbon. Yeah,
I've had a lot of practice. Sleep is at a premium,
but I would say it's also overrated. Otherwise you don't
really experience the city for all that it is so
with us today. Rapper, singer, musician, producer and composer Why
(01:25):
Cleff sean founding member tackle of the legendary Fujis. You
just heard it first time Number one White. Cleff Is
sold over a hundred million albums, twenty million singles and
won three Grammy Awards, and Cleff, we're really happy to
(01:47):
have you with us. I'm micstatic, man, I'm glad I
made it. I was coming from Milwaukee. Actually, you know,
I'm a peak preach a kid. There's a movement going
on in Milwaukee right now musically with a lot of
these kids from the church and they rent these clubs
out and they just bang the hell out of these instruments.
Artists shows up. You know. It's sort of like reminded
(02:09):
me of like when New York used to be hungry,
like we had nails and different things like that. So
there's that whole energy. So going from there and then
get caught in that small snowstorm and then we made it.
I'm just glad to be here. So we're gonna have
a couple of days here. It's gonna be fun. And
we got Craig Bromis, Chief marketing officer at the Gap,
and Craig, I understand that you're gonna be stuck here
(02:31):
for a little bit longer, because that's all this gotten
stuck in Austin for a few more days, right, But
it's nice here, so not a bad place to get stuck.
Not a bad place. We'll keep it weird in Austin
as we do being a weird. Jason Farm CEO of
Lava Records and the man behind everyone from torre Amos
(02:53):
and Kid Rock to Lord. He's also hosted his own podcast,
Wrongful Conviction, which features interviews with men and women who
spent decades in prison for crimes they did not commit,
some even sentenced to death. And I can't think of
a better place, in a better set of people dig
into all these heavy topics of music and marketing and
collaboration and social good and what works and doesn't, where
(03:15):
it all fits together, where it's all going. So I
figured let's spend some time there talking about that. Well,
you can't think of a better group. But then again,
we know you're bourbon and zero percent sleep, so probably
somebody else might be able to think. So let's just
be honest with the audience, right, up front, right, Okay, listen,
if you need some inspiration, nobody wants to be disappointed.
All right, let's just get it straight, all right, let's
(03:38):
get right into it. Why is it soundly cool for
artists to work with brands? For me, as someone who
started off like as a jazz major, like in high
school with a hardcore street background, it's sort of like
the whole idea of hip hop culture does the word
fresh and the idea of fresh plays part of your
(03:59):
whole existence, you know, It's like swag constantly, the same way,
um that you would sit and you would be like, okay,
I'm gonna study all these different cars coming out as
a young age. It's the same way where brands are
just naturally part of what you do to the point
where you can be wrapping and you singing. And usually
the way that our audience actually picks up on the
(04:23):
different brands is through I call it a coded message.
So it's basically like you could hear Ja say a
word for the first time, or the Fuji say a word,
or somebody and you go, well, what is this and
then you actually look into it. So for me, it's
always been a natural thing and an unforced thing like
brands and music. It's like music and sports. You know
(04:43):
what I'm saying to you, But the brand's gotta be
cool though you're feeling. You know, Left is exactly right.
You know, it's all about the right marriage. Otherwise it
looks cheesy and people see through that and then everybody loses.
But when it's right, I've always said that when a
brand can endorse a band, and Apple has done this
to perfection right. When they can take a band and
(05:05):
expose their audience to it for the first time and
then that band becomes that artists becomes successful, then you're
making your customers cool, because we know what's cool. When
you were a kid and you've got the record first
and you played it for your friends and they didn't
know about it, and that became an important artist, then
you were cool because music is everything. Right and Craig,
the Gap has been somewhat extricably linked with music as
(05:28):
part of culture, as part of the retail environment. You
featured artists in your ads. How are you guys continuing
to embrace that and take it to a different level.
I've joined Gap and them they're only about a hundred
days so far, but When you think about when GAP
was at its best, GAP was about entertainment, and so
it wasn't advertising, was actually entertainment, the Khaki swing, I
think the Madonna Missielic collaboration. As we look to two
(05:50):
thousand seventeen and beyond, we want to be back in
the entertainment game, and clearly music is very linked to
what we'll do in the future. How do you determine
the wish list? Like you talked about on those collaborations,
they're phenomenal, but how do you spot what's next? To
Jason's point finding those rising stars to feature? Do you
guys have a program dedicated to it? Are you down
here in Austin looking for it? It happens pre organically.
(06:12):
I mean Gap is probably the most democratic retailer on
the planet, so are Big Tent. It's from birth to death,
people from all sorts of diverse backgrounds. One of the
guardrails we use it can't be the obvious. So it
may be someone that has been out of the spotlight
for a while. It may be that rising star, It
may be someone that would be really surprising to be
connected with the brand. But I think Black Clubs said
(06:34):
it very well earlier. If it's authentic and fits the
brand values, that's when the magic happens. Jason and your
so like, how do you find artists from the other
end to fit with brands? Well, you don't find artists
to fit with brands, you know, you just find artists.
And then at the end of the day, you know,
music is power, right, And it's interesting because years ago,
I remember meeting with the president of Coca Cola and
(06:55):
he told me that in every perceptual study they've ever done,
there's only two things that people really truly care about,
which is music and sex. And when you think about it,
the only reason the Internet even exists is for music
and porn, right, and then a little bit web md maybe,
but whatever I mean, Other than that our directions, but
you don't need it for anything else. And so it's
interesting because music, when you go back to like after
(07:16):
Dais and stuff like that, was what drove everything, right
and so, and by the way, I've always wondered why
there isn't better music and porn, although I don't watch porn,
but I'm just saying I've heard that it's really bad,
and maybe there might be a new opportunity there. But anyway,
So you never like try to sign an artist for
a brand. That would be ridiculous. A brand might try
to sign an artists sometime in the future. But you know,
when you find a great artist and you find some
(07:37):
music that's magical, then if you can connect with somebody
like Craig and a great brand the gap and you know,
you can come up with a great sink, a great
usage of the song, you can actually break an artist.
And what an incredible thing that is. Breaking artis like
doing brain surgery with pons, right, I mean, it's really
you know, in a world where people see thousands of
messages every day, to get a new artist over, it's
(07:58):
harder than ever and so but it still happens, and
brands are a part of it now and that's exciting.
And I think they want the same thing we want.
They want something that works organically and that if that's
good for everybody. Field technology has helped with that process.
Um yeah, I would say when we first started, like
in ninete seven, to get to the actual consumer itself,
(08:23):
you needed what was called a middle agent. So what
technology has done is it has eliminated that and it
has educated the new generation to be a little more savvyer, right,
So for example, like I remember the Fuji's being at McDonald's,
like on a promo. This was the grind, you know
(08:43):
what I mean, This was the chipland circuit. Like it's like, yo,
what you know? You know, let's do our new single here,
you know, like sing with a brick on your mouth
on this spot. So we're doing it. But the bigger
picture of it is we're being leveraged to McDonald's. Right
at the time where you don't really have access directly
to the CEO of McDonald's, for example, all that has
(09:05):
changed now. So we're basically in a generation where kids
are wittier and they're much more smarter. So technology has
basically eliminated the middleman. That's per se, I got no
chance to rapper like different kids. And now I would
say strategic brands are more important now than ever. Just say,
like I started an indy, a female owned indie that
(09:27):
we started together, and it's called Heads Music, for example.
So you start with a small fund, right, and so
how are you gonna be competitive? Right? So the way
that you get competitive is, you know, brands are now
more important because they actually part of helping fund an
entire project more now than ever. So what's going on
(09:49):
right now is you will see a lot of these
independent labels, like all these kids with young little indies
that they're actually partnering up with more brands, but understanding
that the brand can actually push their product forward. So
I think like the trade for trade now is a
little more fairer than it was like back in the days,
(10:11):
and I think technology has a lot to do with that.
It's a partnership you have to have, right Like you
can't collaborate if it's just forced here. Now it's a partnership.
Say like I have a deal right now with Guinness,
for example, and Guinness is clear there like Cleft. There
ain't no endorsement, like let's be clear dog like because
I ain't looking for an endorsement. I'm like the Cleft.
(10:34):
It's a partnership. The word partnership now with a capital
P is a very strong word because now you're moving
to a world where things have to be more fair
for the artists, for the people of the world. Kids
are more thinking social entrepreneurship. Corporate companies now have more
of social responsibilities than it was before. Now you're obligated
(10:57):
within your contract, like you know, you have to do something,
you know what I mean. So, by the way, you
know what I learned yesterday, speaking of Guinness, I learned
that the Guinness Book of World Rugers actually started in
bars and I think Ireland or Scotland, because people would
make these crazy claim they were drunk and be like
the tallest guy ever was this guy? Right? And they're like, no,
it was this guy and they'd write it down to
(11:17):
keep track for the bets they were betting pints, right,
And that's actually how Guinness started. And then they were like, hey,
let's turn this into the marketing thing, and then they
created Guinness Book. I never even knew it was Guinness
was the same Guinness, but it is right. I didn't
know that the Guinness. Yeah, I learned that and told
me that I learned every time I hang out with
Sad Going, I learned a lot too. Funny, and you're
(11:40):
building on what White Left said. I think coming up
with something unique is also interesting for the brand of
the artist. Now gap our vision statement as we are creators.
In the coming months, we're gonna be premiering stuff that
we've gone to artists from all sorts of different backgrounds
and allowed them to create a special piece of content.
It could be a singer directing something, it could be
(12:02):
someone from TV doing art, but just trying to let
that artist explore a little bit out of their comfort zone.
So it's not just inserting a track into a TV commercial,
you know, like it was maybe years ago. It has
to be special, a unique and authentic, right, it's not
the starting point. You know, come with a track in mind,
like this is gonna be the shot we're gonna use,
It is gonna be the soundtrack you let it happen.
(12:23):
Do you come with a demo demographic in mind, like
what's your bulls eye? And you know, again, because at
GAP we're so broad, usually not, and so usually it's
more around a specific idea. So for example, we just
did a nineties archive reissue. We went back and reissued
some of the best selling styles from the nineties. We
brought Naomi Campbell back as kind of the true icon.
(12:43):
But then we cast the kids of nineties GAP celebrities.
So think Mick Jagger's daughter, Think Bruce and Demi's daughter,
Think Diana Ross's son, and the list goes on and on.
And we could have went for a really obvious track
for this particular piece of content, but we actually did
something that hope we would put a smile on people
(13:04):
and kind of get go back to entertainment, and we
picked some ridiculous colored Me Bad song. It just totally popped.
And I think given the world we live in right now,
people do want to have a little bit of joy
in their life again, a brand like gap, and there
are others that can do that as well, can explore
that through music. Yeah, that nostalgic twist as well. It's
like anyone at different points in the nineties can identify
(13:26):
with that. I mean, whether there's kids coming up, or
you remember that song because it triggers something that a curiosity.
Are there any color Me Bad songs that aren't ridiculous?
Because you've qualified and I was just wondering if you
had this, this one was pretty ridiculous. I think I
think you're right. I think you're figured out by the
end of the podcast for sure. Jason, for your mind, like,
what are some of the great tie ups you guys
(13:46):
have experienced in your career, Like merging either artists with
artists on collaborations, whether it's in the writing process or
the the actual music itself, we're working with brands or
just thinking differently, working differently, producing things differently. So that's
a great question. You're gonna make me go back, like
I feel like in the movies when it gets all
hazy and you go back in time. It was hard. Yeah,
(14:09):
we're in Austin, Yeah, exactly, And I just got off
a plane. But no, I mean, the collaborations are really interesting,
you know, because collaborations take more forms than just artists
and brands, right, Collaborations could take any point, could be
an artist and an incredible director, right if I'm so old,
like all the way back to Twisted Sister, right, and
I remember when you know my boss at the time,
Doug Morris, he had this idea to take Twisted Sister
(14:29):
and put them with this director, Marty Colner, Right, and
then they made those iconic videos that even people as
young as you guys remember right when niederm the whole
think there's that kind of collaboration. Then there's great collaborations,
Like there was a great stroke of luck when I
first signed Katie Perry, Right, I happened to have just
made a deal with her and I invited her to
our Grammy party. I mean, the inc was just drying
the contract the time. I was running Virgin and she
(14:50):
walked in with Dr Luke, who I knew because I
had actually given him his first record deal when he
was a guitar player side of Night Live. I was like,
you guys know each other, and they were like, yeah,
we're friends. I was like, then you're working together. This
is incredible. It hadn't even occurred to me until I
saw them together. It's like, that makes sense. I basically
personally negotiated the deal because it wasn't an easy deal
to make. Luke was a hot, hot guy, Katie was
(15:11):
an unknown artist at the time, and of course they
wrote I Kissed a Girl in Hot and Cold in
those first sessions and it was like here we go,
you know, and they ended up writing so many amazing hits. Look,
I've always said, in my line of work and in life,
looks a big part of everything, you know, serendipity, synchronicity.
There are some geniuses, but you know they were in
a different generation. When you get an opportunity like that
(15:31):
and you're able to take advantage of and then when
you see the magic that can happen, I mean like
when you look at the foodji's like, how the hell
did you guys ever come together? I always look at like,
how the cough did Elton John and Bernie Topping ever? Me?
How did the universe organize itself so that those two
guys could connect? Because every Ellen John soon starts as
a Bernie Tapping poem? How is that possible? It's unbelievable, right,
(15:53):
because if they never met each other, we never know
who Elton John is, and life ain't good. You know,
life would definitely not be out on John. But you're right,
there's that magic that happens. And is it Seren Deputy?
Was it Seren deputys for you guys with the fuji's
back in the day. You know, my grandfather was a
voodoo priest. Then my father was a minister. He didn't
(16:13):
ounce what my grandfather was dan. My uncle was a mason,
you know. So I was raised in a families where
cosmos and the astros and the idea of like things landing.
I got to see firsthand. I mean as cliche as
it sounds, right because I'm a living testimony of it.
Because if I told you I really took a donkey
(16:34):
to school, you know, what I'm saying to you. Like
when I got to America, I was like, man, you rappers?
Is y'all got it? Made like you're on the project?
Y'all complaining? I'm like, yo, I said, you I ever
heard of a hut? You know what I mean? Like, Yo,
y'all got electricity? Here? I said, you ever heard of
oil with a lamp on it? They say they are
(16:54):
Disneyland here? I said, yo, Disneyland. We used to play
in the back of a cemetery. This is like, hey,
which ghost is coming out today? I'm like, yo, dude.
So I got to America I was ten years old.
By the time I was seventeen, I was traveling and
I was part of a jazz ensemble. I learned how
to play ten different instruments at a very young age.
(17:17):
So by the time the jazz teachers saw me doing
all of this, she was like, where did you learn this?
You know? One, five, seven? What is? I didn't know
what the hell she was talking about. She was like,
you ever heard a Thelonious Monk? I'm like, who's that
is that? A karate person? Does this person do karate?
Is like someone from Shoalton Monk? Like, um, so they
gets you into all of this, so I have to
believe that there is an alternative energy. So the score
(17:43):
was done and my uncle's basement. My father, literally because
he was a minister, kicked me out the house. He
was like, you know, you can't serve two masters. Either
you're gonna serve the Lord, You're gonna serve the devil,
and you're gonna serve the devil. You gotta get the
hell out of this house, so you know, so he
kicks me out and my uncle takes me and he's like, yo,
it ain't like he's selling drugs or nothing. The kids
(18:04):
just doing his music. Puts me in this basement and
we get into this basement, and you have to think
of it. The score which y'all all have, was done
inside of a basement with a four or five six
Ampex Rerail machine track right Impex Rerail, and I wanted
it to be sixty four tracks in my brain, so
(18:26):
that means that the empty which is the track, all
my nerves is listening right now. Then we got twenty
three tracks to work with, so I started bouncing. You know,
I was a big fan of Freddie Mercury, so that's
how I was doing the Fuji's vocals. So I literally
was recording like twenty thirty tracks, bouncing down to twenty three,
bouncing down to twenty two. Then this is the funniest
(18:48):
thing with the score. We're in the basement, were in
the hood. Now I got a ground problem. Everything I'm recording,
I could hear the ground. Google Google. Then I remember
the old Franken style movie and I said, Okay, how
do I get rid of this ground? So I said, okay,
I know what I'm gonna do. So I got seven
hangars and I put them in seven pillars of the ceiling.
(19:09):
So what happened is so the ground you could literally
catch it on the hangar and you could move it
like you can and you can move it once again,
I was on a donkey. So where the hell that
all of this came from? So it actually just came
from paying close attention, being intuitive accent questions in science class,
(19:30):
because in science you're building this cell. You know, they're
like if you connect this to this, like years later,
you don't know you're about to use seven hangers on
the score. It's just like, oh this should I remember
what I did in science class. It's mystical. I have
to believe in the astros, right because I'm still trying
to figure how I got here and how we still
do what we do. And when I spent small time
(19:51):
with Carlos Santana, you know, when he was like, yo,
there's like really no more geniuses, I'm like, Yo, Santana
is the only person um Santana and Tom Jones. I
even did a record called Tim Jones International because I
wanted to spend time with these dudes because I want
to understand what I have to do next. And I
feel like what I have to do next it's not
(20:11):
based off of popularity, but based off a legacy. So
you get to spend time with these dudes, you know,
And I'm accent Santana about like Hendricks, like Jimmy Hendricks,
like and this guy can actually give me information, like
there's really people around and I'm with Tom Jones and
Tom Jones is like, yo, let me tell you how
gully it was back when we was coming up. He
(20:32):
was like cleft. Literally when we was in Vegas, we
were sharing showers, like so the next person would have
to literally stand and wait for the next person in
the shower, and he's like, yo, so I'm freaking standing,
you know, and I'm waiting and Elvis is in the
goddamn showing, you know. And like those kind of stories,
(20:53):
when you see who those people become, I have to
at the end of the day believe like certain people
are just cause medically something going on with the astros
that connects us, you know, you know. And on that note,
by the way, that's one of the greatest diet tribes
I've ever heard. When you go from donkeys trying donkeys
a school to hangars and the and the score in
the basement. I mean, that was you guys. Just edit
(21:17):
that piece out and give it to me so I
can listen to it like fifty time. Because speaking of serendipity,
Larry Mullen told me that the reason you Too is
you Too is because he just put it add in
the newspaper. And they were the first three guys that
showed up. You know, drummers would have showed up, they
would have been four drummers. You know. He's like, I'm
just gonna get the first four guys, and that was it.
There's a little dinner and and there's a little twilight
(21:38):
happening there too, right I mean, and then here they
are still like all these years later. Yeah, you can't
force collaboration. You can't. It's got to be organic, Like
you could inspire it. Maybe there's a catalyst for it,
maybe there's something that you know, you heard, you saw
that you you gravitate towards. But if you force it,
you're not gonna have these amazing stories. And I have
this incredible result or product at the end of it.
(22:01):
And I think sometimes brands have to take a little
bit of risk. So before Gap, I led a global
marketing for Calvin Klein, which is also brand that has
a rich history of working with artists. And I think
of two campaigns where there was a calculator risk that
paid off in a very very big way. First with
Marky Mark this was a guy who was not well known,
was a little bit raw. He almost defined the Calvin
(22:23):
Klein underwear business in the nineties. And then the Babes. Right,
Calvin Klein cast Bieber at maybe one of his lowest points, right,
and there was certainly some stuff in the press about,
you know, where Biber was going. But they took a
risk and it popped in a very very big way
to a young generation so again a little bit of risk,
I think is a good thing for brand as well.
(22:44):
You have to be willing to take that ra you have,
you willing to roll the dice and see what happens.
Speaking of yeah, speaking rolling the dice. Right now, our
friend Floyd just brought us in some cocktails so we
could keep collaborating on this podcast. Time to take a
break with our friends from Bullet Frontier Whiskey. Please drink responsibly.
He's a great Floyd Pink Floyd. So you're drinking a
(23:11):
drink I call the old Nighter. It is an old
fashioned variation with Bullet. I use a little bit of
a local Austin coffee Liqueur he roasted here, he makes it.
Here is a little bit of caffeine. It's fantastic, and
a little bit of crimtic A cow is a little
bit of chocolate. You taste Again's aguinness really plays well
with the bourbon. When I walked in, White Cleft said, oh,
(23:31):
marshmallows the theme we're talking about his marketing and the
simplest little thing A marshmallow comes on your drink. A
toasted marshmallow is the garnish and I bring that to
you at a bar. Everybody at the bar is gonna say,
why isn't there a marshmallow in my drink? What is that?
Why did he get a marshmallow? You walk that through
a bar on a tray and everybody turns and looks like,
what is that? I want to know about that? It's
(23:52):
a two cent marshmallow. The next thing I want to drink.
What I can make that happen for you? We're gonna
have post. We call it the all nighter. Yeah, That's
what I used to do in the hood, Just make
songs up. You know, there are brands, there are brands
(24:16):
that will pay good money for that. I think Craig
Craig just found his new inspiration for the spring campaign.
Great trap. Did not know I was going to get
that in my life, So I was good, I know,
I even though I needed it until I happened. All Right,
we absolutely need Floyd. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure.
(24:36):
This has been fantastic. Thank you. Grab some the spirits
here wrote the story. I have no all the there
we go bullet frontier whiskey. Please drink responsibly. Talk to
(25:10):
us a little bit about this podcast you have and
what was the inspiration for that. I'm the founding board
member of the Innocence Project. Actually, so, I've been working
on what I call getting people out of prisoner don't
belong there for almost twenty five years. You know. The
Inscence Project is an organization that uses DNA to exonerate
people who are serving time for crimes they didn't commit.
(25:30):
We've been able to free hundreds of people and change
laws and change the protocols to prevent future wrongful convictions
as well. There's even been twenty people on death row
we've been exonerated. Now. Um so I call it selfish altruism,
you know, because it makes me feel good, But um
I get so much out of it. Just being around
the exonorees has always been an amazing experience for me.
(25:51):
They're so courageous, they're so strong, they're so graceful, and
they have this almost bizarre sense of optimism and hope.
And I had a guy on my podcast few weeks
who served thirty four years in prisoners something didn't do.
And it's incredible to because it's a guy named Keith
Allen Harward. And I said to him, Keith, I go,
how the hell did you keep your sanity? He's from Virginia,
you know, so he's got that accent and everything. I
(26:12):
can do his accent pretty well if you don't mind it.
The Keith like, how the hell did you survive? And
there is a guy who had no record before he
went in. You know, he was in the Navy, convicted
of a brutal crime, framed, and he says, yeah, man,
he said Jason, listen, man, he says, you know, and
when I was stuck in there in a six by
nine foot cell with another guy for a long time,
you know, I'm like, well, damned, Keith, I mean, like,
(26:33):
how do you do it? And he says, well, j
C says listen, man. He goes, I was innocent, so
that helped. And I was like, well, wouldn't have help me.
It would have made me crazier. You know, no one
I was innocent in there. And he says, well, man, listen,
he says, you know, when I went to prison, I
just I just said to myself, you know what, Keith.
You know, I said to myself that they took my
freedom and they took my body. But I'm not gonna
(26:55):
let him take my mind, because if I do that,
I'm letting him win. And I was like, oh, like,
I felt like I was in the presence of like
a deity. So the podcast Wrongful Conviction, you know, I
interview a different Xenoree each week and walk them through
their insane stories of having been you know, arrested and
wrongfully convicted and serving decades in prison for crimes they
(27:17):
didn't commit, and along the way try to educate the
public on how commonness is and what the causes are
and how to prevent it from happening in the future.
And you know, music is my job and I love it,
but this is like my calling. It's such a noble
cause to be able to do that and help so
many people and maybe inspire others to take action, especially
in the climate that we're in today. And that's a
(27:39):
whole other podcast, right, But what role obligation do you
think artists save or brands have to actually take action?
And maybe not just organically or because it's a passion
of there is just something they're connected to, but to
make some demonstrable change in this world, especially with everything
that's been going on. Well, I mean, you know, I
think that everybody's not just brand as our artists, like,
(28:00):
everybody just has a responsibility to try to right wrongs
and try to help their fellow man and to help
the earth and you know, all living things. I'm starting
a movement and my philosophy is be kind to yourself,
to other people, to animals in the earth, try to
help people as much as you can. And personal freedom
is an important thing to me, you know. But but yeah,
everybody has a responsibility. It's very strange because the people
(28:23):
in Washington right now feel the opposite way, right, I mean,
it's all about narcissism and greed, and let's face the evil.
What they're doing is evil now more than ever. We
all have a responsibility to stand up, to resist, to
do everything in our power to you know, try to
counterbalance that insanity want and to unify people, not divide people.
(28:47):
It's united, we stand divided, we fall like we hear that,
but yeah, then we see what's going on in the world.
It's not unity other than the people who are just
so appalled by it in front of that too, right,
gap is he's been that sort of color blind. We're
all that's one kind of there's no doubt, and I
mean that's I think part of the reason why I'm
so excited to join this brand at this time. Right,
(29:08):
So we were the first fortune company to establish equal
pay for women. Obviously, we've had a longer history with
Red and the great work they do defied AIDS in
Africa around the world. Certainly we have an amazing track
record and trying to do a better job with environmental impact.
I mean, those are the values that get everyone excited
to go to work again. I think given the time
(29:29):
that we live in, we have an opportunity to engage
in some of those issues even more than we have
in the last couple of years. Does an artist pro
social activity come into play? What are you thinking about? That?
For me is crazy because one of my mottos is
fellow COULTI and I actually ran to become president and
(29:53):
hats trying to get assassinated. My name was wrong for
used it. I mean, and I commend you, my brother,
like you're the real deal man on what you're doing.
Like I commend you because I understand. You know. There's
a movie I send a text, they're gonna send it
to me. It won the Sundance Festival. It's about a
(30:15):
Caribbean brother that was locked up for twenty years and
eventually they ended up getting him out. I'm gonna get
you the name of the movie before I left. So
for me, it's a tricky thing, you know. And Bono
who's one of my mentors, Like Bono is like one
of my heroes. So at times, you know, you felt confused,
so you gotta talk to somebody like, yo, are you
doing the right thing? Because it's not popular now. It's
(30:40):
sort of like a little more popular because socially people
want to get more engaged right now, you know, artists
want to get more engaged now. But when I was
doing it, it's not a popular thing to say. Okay,
you write like hips don't lie, you know, and after
you write this song, you say, okay, this one of
this like perhaps the biggest air played song of all times.
(31:01):
Then you go, well, this is how I want to
lead the earth, Like I come from this place. I
used to ride a donkey, and so this is what
I want the world to understand about me. So now
you're fighting because your agents and everyone's like, yo, dude,
don't go there. You're basically gonna lose it all. Stay
away from politics. Don't go you know my foundation, yell haiti,
(31:23):
I mean the scandals around it and saying I stole
money from my charity, which I denounced everything. When you
was watching the elections, I think you gotta grasp on
how politics work and how you know when it's time
for them to come for you, they're gonna come in
a certain way. So I'm happy though now because I
see artists are a little more like engaged, like in
(31:44):
the sense of you okay, in the award shows, they're
using their platforms a little more. I commend them on that.
This is very important and it's bravery right. So for me,
Gap was always like you know what, it's like a
rebel brand. That's why I like Got because it's not
easy to make a lot of money, to be a
(32:05):
billion dollar company and be like, oh, at the same time,
I'm gonna talk about all of this fib that's going on.
So it's not an easy thing. You know Bono which
is a mentor, you know, learning from him, watching him,
having a chance to talk to him multiple times, it
makes me even want to engage more, you know what
I mean. I don't say it because artists would be
(32:26):
I don't talk it. So when I tell you, like
if I was president, I get elected on Friday. It
ain't no song, bro, like you could look online. I
got my boots on. You know, I'm heavy on the
ground because I believe at the end of the day,
all we do have is us. And what that means
is like the earth was so created already, like with
the animals to get along with the humans and the
(32:47):
flowers to provide oxygen. It's so perfect at times, and
the only thing that divides us is like when men
come around and decide, you know what, forget all of this.
The world has to worship me. So whenever this happens,
we have as a people have to make sure that
we get together, you know what I mean? Definitely that
(33:08):
is absolutely a hundred in the world that we're in today. Yeah, man,
it's got a change, right facts, it's crazy, and it's
driven by a number of things, right, and greed is
probably the most corrosive element of it, right because when
you look at these guys who are denying climate science
and all this other stuff, for trying to cancel everybody's
(33:30):
health care because because they want more money, Like, what
are you gonna do with it? It's a selfishness, not
a self many yachts can you water skip behind. It
doesn't make any sense, like only one at a time, dude,
it doesn't make any practical sense saying you know, I
become involved recently with trying to save the rhinos, right,
because it's so odd when you look at nature the
(33:53):
way you were just talking about it. And to me,
I don't know why, but rhinos, to me are the
most beautiful, iconic species. They haven't evolved in ends of
millions of years because I haven't needed to. Nobody looks
called the rhino, right, They're perfect, and so now they're
going to be extinct in five to seven years if
we don't stop this poaching business that's going on, and
(34:13):
it's all driven by money. And I was in Africa
a couple of months ago, and when you get around
a rhino, I haven't experienced anything better than that. They
are the most benign, incredible, gentle, giant, powerful creatures. They
don't want to hurt anything like hippos are dangerous, like
hippos will right, you're an anywhere near a hippo shomp
you in half, and that's fine, and I have a
(34:35):
right to be on the planet too, But it's just
ironic that rhinos, who are so powerful you can just
go up and pat them. Don't recommend it, but I
did it. They're like giant docks. It makes me crazy.
But I'm working with this organization called vet PAW now,
which US military veterans who go over there and work
for next to nothing on the ground, like training African
rangers to be able to defend themselves and take care
of the rhinos and resting and trying to break up
(34:57):
these rhino poaching rings and stuff, you know, before it's
too late. That's phenomenal. Yeah, it's it's good stuff. I'm
not jealous of many people, but if you haven't been
Africa yet, I'm jealous because you get to go there
for the first time. It's like the first time you
watch Breaking Bad. That ship is incredible. I kissed the
rhino and I liked it. Let me tell you, there
we go. That's gonna be your tag later. So on
(35:23):
a slight twist on that, what are the cautionary tales
when trying to collaborate with brands and artists or causes?
Like what are some of your stories about like when
it hasn't worked and that you've recognized maybe this was
the wrong decision, right, should have thought about it differently.
We gotta cut bait and run. I don't know if
we should name names. I think the things that don't
work is it just forced. Both sides see dollar signs
(35:46):
in their eyes, and it just comes across as very,
very in authentic. Right when you're able to sit down
with an artist, ask him or her kind of what
they're trying to do, and then the brand has that
interaction with the artists on that level, that's where the
good stuff happened, not just this smash up of unnatural
shared like a shared belief clouded by the dollar science. Yeah,
(36:07):
that's critical, but you know, having said that focus in
marking for Calvin, for Abercrom, for Gap, I mean, when
you engage with anyone from the outside, you are taking
a bit of a risk, right, exposing yourself to something
that could happen, especially in this crazy social media age
where everything is hyper criticized. So we do have to
think through what way could this go in order to
(36:30):
protect the brand of sum extent as well. I think
you're right that authenticity. You can't fake it because people
see you right through it. Especially in this day and
age with social media and technology. It's just there's too
much at risk for that sort of misstep. You don't
want to be known for that, right. It's been a
lot of fun, but we're coming up to our end
of our show, and I got one question for each
of you because you've told some phenomenal stories and I
(36:53):
just want to keep doing this, but maybe we'll do
it after. What's your tagline? I guess you're looking at me,
so I'll start here. So again, new gig four months in.
It's mine the gap man. I have a simple one man.
To live for yourself is to live selfishly, but to
live for others is to live an eternity. Man. Yeah, man, Jason,
(37:16):
you know, do the right thing even when nobody's watching,
you know, maybe especially when nobody's watching. My dad gave
me and my brother the best advice when we were kids,
and I gave my kids the same advice, which is
he said, do whatever you want to do, try to
be the best at it, but just make the world
a better place. He said, if you do that, you'll
(37:38):
be a success in my eyes. And I revered, and
I looked up to my dad and getting him put
the right words for everything that he was, And so
I wanted to be a success in his eyes. And
obviously that stuck with me because he told me that
when I was a child. You know, try to follow that.
And I think if you can follow that and pass
that on, then you know, we can hopefully build a
(37:59):
collect the consciousness that will bring us to a better place.
Because where we're at now and so good. I think
for all you guys have each done on your own
and maybe collectively coming out of this, there's gonna be
a lot of good done in the world and a
lot more to come. And uh, I think that adds
up to success. So, by the way, I just want
to say, I've been around and seeing some things. Here
(38:22):
just landing in Austin and sit next to this guy
that some words you talked about, like that whole thing
when you were talking about that whole synergy thing, Like
certain things like how did this happen? How did this happen?
Like how like we we could have tried to plan
it this like for years, it would have never happened.
(38:45):
It just know had to happen. The land late is
just universe. Take us out. Your man w about to
take you without no doubt. Now pay your attention, Austin.
I used to this free style offten. Excuse me if
I started the little it's the it's tricking me now listen. Yeah,
(39:09):
I came to Austin, I'd beat the pro. I got
here a little late. I had the problem with the snow.
But it's cool, man, I got the reason, and I
respect my man for taking people out of prison that
ain't guilty. Man, Yo, I'm not mc man. Some herd
Fuji's thought I was Japanese. I chi needs someng chi
(39:29):
no cochichi ha chi. She looked at me. I said,
I'm not Japanese. I'm y cleve young. I flipped the
language I could call Donald Trump and flipping in Spanish
like me, I me got windows. Dr Senior dea sue
find me to y'all Esto and dortben and me grow
for no and sped says stung being como Joe. Y'all listening,
(39:54):
y'all still ain't convinced. Y'all might get convinced when I'm
flipping in French case your ma the lover luda lamore junk. Well,
come on, yes, comes you on my pew with Meyo,
silly st my v does you are liple wool yep?
Why cleft staying at Brooklyn Zone. My people and flat
(40:15):
Bush told me to tell you, Shalon, we want peace
in the world. This is how we do. My name
is why Cliff I wrapped that Fuji crew. They say,
I'm all about peace. Why I carry a piece because
I'd be damn if y'all shooting me with the same bullet. Y'all.
Shot Kennedy, same bullet, shot Martin in the balcony, same bullet.
Travel to India and shot Gandhi, same bullet, shot Jumpling
(40:37):
and in New York City, Tupacott in Vegas, Big Giant,
and Cali, same bullet. Travel to them out on the Olivia. Yeah,
and then the pop check at a good night y'all. Yeah, awesome,
(40:57):
It's been real. You've been listening to tagline presented by
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Please drink responsibly. We want to hear what you thought.
Joined the discussion on Twitter now by using the hashtag tagline.
(41:21):
Check out our next episode as Adam Schlatterer of Pooblicist
Media invite superstar artist Melissa Etheridge visas Innovation lead Chris
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or wherever you get your podcasts. Yea audiation.
The views and opinions expressed on the following program are
those of the persons appearing on the program and do
not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any of
the program's producers or partners. The only reason the Internet
even exists is for music and foreign right, and then
(00:20):
a little bit web md. Maybe to live for yourself
is to live selfishly, but to live for others is
to live in eternity. Welcome to Tagline or a cocktail
and join us for inspired conversations with the best storytellers,
culture makers, and creators from our friends at Bullet Frontier Whiskey.
(00:41):
Please drink responsibly. Given the world we live in right now,
people do want to have a little bit of joy
in their life again. Tagline is produced by I Heart
Radio and partnership with Advertising Age. Welcome to Taglet. I'm
Adams Factor, President of Global Innovation at POBS Media. I'm
(01:01):
also on day five in Austin at south By Southwest
and at this point I'm officially fifty percent Taco Bourbon. Yeah,
I've had a lot of practice. Sleep is at a premium,
but I would say it's also overrated. Otherwise you don't
really experience the city for all that it is so
with us today. Rapper, singer, musician, producer and composer Why
(01:25):
Cleff sean founding member tackle of the legendary Fujis. You
just heard it first time Number one White. Cleff Is
sold over a hundred million albums, twenty million singles and
won three Grammy Awards, and Cleff, we're really happy to
(01:47):
have you with us. I'm micstatic, man, I'm glad I
made it. I was coming from Milwaukee. Actually, you know,
I'm a peak preach a kid. There's a movement going
on in Milwaukee right now musically with a lot of
these kids from the church and they rent these clubs
out and they just bang the hell out of these instruments.
Artists shows up. You know. It's sort of like reminded
(02:09):
me of like when New York used to be hungry,
like we had nails and different things like that. So
there's that whole energy. So going from there and then
get caught in that small snowstorm and then we made it.
I'm just glad to be here. So we're gonna have
a couple of days here. It's gonna be fun. And
we got Craig Bromis, Chief marketing officer at the Gap,
and Craig, I understand that you're gonna be stuck here
(02:31):
for a little bit longer, because that's all this gotten
stuck in Austin for a few more days, right, But
it's nice here, so not a bad place to get stuck.
Not a bad place. We'll keep it weird in Austin
as we do being a weird. Jason Farm CEO of
Lava Records and the man behind everyone from torre Amos
(02:53):
and Kid Rock to Lord. He's also hosted his own podcast,
Wrongful Conviction, which features interviews with men and women who
spent decades in prison for crimes they did not commit,
some even sentenced to death. And I can't think of
a better place, in a better set of people dig
into all these heavy topics of music and marketing and
collaboration and social good and what works and doesn't, where
(03:15):
it all fits together, where it's all going. So I
figured let's spend some time there talking about that. Well,
you can't think of a better group. But then again,
we know you're bourbon and zero percent sleep, so probably
somebody else might be able to think. So let's just
be honest with the audience, right, up front, right, Okay, listen,
if you need some inspiration, nobody wants to be disappointed.
All right, let's just get it straight, all right, let's
(03:38):
get right into it. Why is it soundly cool for
artists to work with brands? For me, as someone who
started off like as a jazz major, like in high
school with a hardcore street background, it's sort of like
the whole idea of hip hop culture does the word
fresh and the idea of fresh plays part of your
(03:59):
whole existence, you know, It's like swag constantly, the same way,
um that you would sit and you would be like, okay,
I'm gonna study all these different cars coming out as
a young age. It's the same way where brands are
just naturally part of what you do to the point
where you can be wrapping and you singing. And usually
the way that our audience actually picks up on the
(04:23):
different brands is through I call it a coded message.
So it's basically like you could hear Ja say a
word for the first time, or the Fuji say a word,
or somebody and you go, well, what is this and
then you actually look into it. So for me, it's
always been a natural thing and an unforced thing like
brands and music. It's like music and sports. You know
(04:43):
what I'm saying to you, But the brand's gotta be
cool though you're feeling. You know, Left is exactly right.
You know, it's all about the right marriage. Otherwise it
looks cheesy and people see through that and then everybody loses.
But when it's right, I've always said that when a
brand can endorse a band, and Apple has done this
to perfection right. When they can take a band and
(05:05):
expose their audience to it for the first time and
then that band becomes that artists becomes successful, then you're
making your customers cool, because we know what's cool. When
you were a kid and you've got the record first
and you played it for your friends and they didn't
know about it, and that became an important artist, then
you were cool because music is everything. Right and Craig,
the Gap has been somewhat extricably linked with music as
(05:28):
part of culture, as part of the retail environment. You
featured artists in your ads. How are you guys continuing
to embrace that and take it to a different level.
I've joined Gap and them they're only about a hundred
days so far, but When you think about when GAP
was at its best, GAP was about entertainment, and so
it wasn't advertising, was actually entertainment, the Khaki swing, I
think the Madonna Missielic collaboration. As we look to two
(05:50):
thousand seventeen and beyond, we want to be back in
the entertainment game, and clearly music is very linked to
what we'll do in the future. How do you determine
the wish list? Like you talked about on those collaborations,
they're phenomenal, but how do you spot what's next? To
Jason's point finding those rising stars to feature? Do you
guys have a program dedicated to it? Are you down
here in Austin looking for it? It happens pre organically.
(06:12):
I mean Gap is probably the most democratic retailer on
the planet, so are Big Tent. It's from birth to death,
people from all sorts of diverse backgrounds. One of the
guardrails we use it can't be the obvious. So it
may be someone that has been out of the spotlight
for a while. It may be that rising star, It
may be someone that would be really surprising to be
connected with the brand. But I think Black Clubs said
(06:34):
it very well earlier. If it's authentic and fits the
brand values, that's when the magic happens. Jason and your
so like, how do you find artists from the other
end to fit with brands? Well, you don't find artists
to fit with brands, you know, you just find artists.
And then at the end of the day, you know,
music is power, right, And it's interesting because years ago,
I remember meeting with the president of Coca Cola and
(06:55):
he told me that in every perceptual study they've ever done,
there's only two things that people really truly care about,
which is music and sex. And when you think about it,
the only reason the Internet even exists is for music
and porn, right, and then a little bit web md maybe,
but whatever I mean, Other than that our directions, but
you don't need it for anything else. And so it's
interesting because music, when you go back to like after
(07:16):
Dais and stuff like that, was what drove everything, right
and so, and by the way, I've always wondered why
there isn't better music and porn, although I don't watch porn,
but I'm just saying I've heard that it's really bad,
and maybe there might be a new opportunity there. But anyway,
So you never like try to sign an artist for
a brand. That would be ridiculous. A brand might try
to sign an artists sometime in the future. But you know,
when you find a great artist and you find some
(07:37):
music that's magical, then if you can connect with somebody
like Craig and a great brand the gap and you know,
you can come up with a great sink, a great
usage of the song, you can actually break an artist.
And what an incredible thing that is. Breaking artis like
doing brain surgery with pons, right, I mean, it's really
you know, in a world where people see thousands of
messages every day, to get a new artist over, it's
(07:58):
harder than ever and so but it still happens, and
brands are a part of it now and that's exciting.
And I think they want the same thing we want.
They want something that works organically and that if that's
good for everybody. Field technology has helped with that process.
Um yeah, I would say when we first started, like
in ninete seven, to get to the actual consumer itself,
(08:23):
you needed what was called a middle agent. So what
technology has done is it has eliminated that and it
has educated the new generation to be a little more savvyer, right,
So for example, like I remember the Fuji's being at McDonald's,
like on a promo. This was the grind, you know
(08:43):
what I mean, This was the chipland circuit. Like it's like, yo,
what you know? You know, let's do our new single here,
you know, like sing with a brick on your mouth
on this spot. So we're doing it. But the bigger
picture of it is we're being leveraged to McDonald's. Right
at the time where you don't really have access directly
to the CEO of McDonald's, for example, all that has
(09:05):
changed now. So we're basically in a generation where kids
are wittier and they're much more smarter. So technology has
basically eliminated the middleman. That's per se, I got no
chance to rapper like different kids. And now I would
say strategic brands are more important now than ever. Just say,
like I started an indy, a female owned indie that
(09:27):
we started together, and it's called Heads Music, for example.
So you start with a small fund, right, and so
how are you gonna be competitive? Right? So the way
that you get competitive is, you know, brands are now
more important because they actually part of helping fund an
entire project more now than ever. So what's going on
(09:49):
right now is you will see a lot of these
independent labels, like all these kids with young little indies
that they're actually partnering up with more brands, but understanding
that the brand can actually push their product forward. So
I think like the trade for trade now is a
little more fairer than it was like back in the days,
(10:11):
and I think technology has a lot to do with that.
It's a partnership you have to have, right Like you
can't collaborate if it's just forced here. Now it's a partnership.
Say like I have a deal right now with Guinness,
for example, and Guinness is clear there like Cleft. There
ain't no endorsement, like let's be clear dog like because
I ain't looking for an endorsement. I'm like the Cleft.
(10:34):
It's a partnership. The word partnership now with a capital
P is a very strong word because now you're moving
to a world where things have to be more fair
for the artists, for the people of the world. Kids
are more thinking social entrepreneurship. Corporate companies now have more
of social responsibilities than it was before. Now you're obligated
(10:57):
within your contract, like you know, you have to do something,
you know what I mean. So, by the way, you
know what I learned yesterday, speaking of Guinness, I learned
that the Guinness Book of World Rugers actually started in
bars and I think Ireland or Scotland, because people would
make these crazy claim they were drunk and be like
the tallest guy ever was this guy? Right? And they're like, no,
it was this guy and they'd write it down to
(11:17):
keep track for the bets they were betting pints, right,
And that's actually how Guinness started. And then they were like, hey,
let's turn this into the marketing thing, and then they
created Guinness Book. I never even knew it was Guinness
was the same Guinness, but it is right. I didn't
know that the Guinness. Yeah, I learned that and told
me that I learned every time I hang out with
Sad Going, I learned a lot too. Funny, and you're
(11:40):
building on what White Left said. I think coming up
with something unique is also interesting for the brand of
the artist. Now gap our vision statement as we are creators.
In the coming months, we're gonna be premiering stuff that
we've gone to artists from all sorts of different backgrounds
and allowed them to create a special piece of content.
It could be a singer directing something, it could be
(12:02):
someone from TV doing art, but just trying to let
that artist explore a little bit out of their comfort zone.
So it's not just inserting a track into a TV commercial,
you know, like it was maybe years ago. It has
to be special, a unique and authentic, right, it's not
the starting point. You know, come with a track in mind,
like this is gonna be the shot we're gonna use,
It is gonna be the soundtrack you let it happen.
(12:23):
Do you come with a demo demographic in mind, like
what's your bulls eye? And you know, again, because at
GAP we're so broad, usually not, and so usually it's
more around a specific idea. So for example, we just
did a nineties archive reissue. We went back and reissued
some of the best selling styles from the nineties. We
brought Naomi Campbell back as kind of the true icon.
(12:43):
But then we cast the kids of nineties GAP celebrities.
So think Mick Jagger's daughter, Think Bruce and Demi's daughter,
Think Diana Ross's son, and the list goes on and on.
And we could have went for a really obvious track
for this particular piece of content, but we actually did
something that hope we would put a smile on people
(13:04):
and kind of get go back to entertainment, and we
picked some ridiculous colored Me Bad song. It just totally popped.
And I think given the world we live in right now,
people do want to have a little bit of joy
in their life again, a brand like gap, and there
are others that can do that as well, can explore
that through music. Yeah, that nostalgic twist as well. It's
like anyone at different points in the nineties can identify
(13:26):
with that. I mean, whether there's kids coming up, or
you remember that song because it triggers something that a curiosity.
Are there any color Me Bad songs that aren't ridiculous?
Because you've qualified and I was just wondering if you
had this, this one was pretty ridiculous. I think I
think you're right. I think you're figured out by the
end of the podcast for sure. Jason, for your mind, like,
what are some of the great tie ups you guys
(13:46):
have experienced in your career, Like merging either artists with
artists on collaborations, whether it's in the writing process or
the the actual music itself, we're working with brands or
just thinking differently, working differently, producing things differently. So that's
a great question. You're gonna make me go back, like
I feel like in the movies when it gets all
hazy and you go back in time. It was hard. Yeah,
(14:09):
we're in Austin, Yeah, exactly, And I just got off
a plane. But no, I mean, the collaborations are really interesting,
you know, because collaborations take more forms than just artists
and brands, right, Collaborations could take any point, could be
an artist and an incredible director, right if I'm so old,
like all the way back to Twisted Sister, right, and
I remember when you know my boss at the time,
Doug Morris, he had this idea to take Twisted Sister
(14:29):
and put them with this director, Marty Colner, Right, and
then they made those iconic videos that even people as
young as you guys remember right when niederm the whole
think there's that kind of collaboration. Then there's great collaborations,
Like there was a great stroke of luck when I
first signed Katie Perry, Right, I happened to have just
made a deal with her and I invited her to
our Grammy party. I mean, the inc was just drying
the contract the time. I was running Virgin and she
(14:50):
walked in with Dr Luke, who I knew because I
had actually given him his first record deal when he
was a guitar player side of Night Live. I was like,
you guys know each other, and they were like, yeah,
we're friends. I was like, then you're working together. This
is incredible. It hadn't even occurred to me until I
saw them together. It's like, that makes sense. I basically
personally negotiated the deal because it wasn't an easy deal
to make. Luke was a hot, hot guy, Katie was
(15:11):
an unknown artist at the time, and of course they
wrote I Kissed a Girl in Hot and Cold in
those first sessions and it was like here we go,
you know, and they ended up writing so many amazing hits. Look,
I've always said, in my line of work and in life,
looks a big part of everything, you know, serendipity, synchronicity.
There are some geniuses, but you know they were in
a different generation. When you get an opportunity like that
(15:31):
and you're able to take advantage of and then when
you see the magic that can happen, I mean like
when you look at the foodji's like, how the hell
did you guys ever come together? I always look at like,
how the cough did Elton John and Bernie Topping ever? Me?
How did the universe organize itself so that those two
guys could connect? Because every Ellen John soon starts as
a Bernie Tapping poem? How is that possible? It's unbelievable, right,
(15:53):
because if they never met each other, we never know
who Elton John is, and life ain't good. You know,
life would definitely not be out on John. But you're right,
there's that magic that happens. And is it Seren Deputy?
Was it Seren deputys for you guys with the fuji's
back in the day. You know, my grandfather was a
voodoo priest. Then my father was a minister. He didn't
(16:13):
ounce what my grandfather was dan. My uncle was a mason,
you know. So I was raised in a families where
cosmos and the astros and the idea of like things landing.
I got to see firsthand. I mean as cliche as
it sounds, right because I'm a living testimony of it.
Because if I told you I really took a donkey
(16:34):
to school, you know, what I'm saying to you. Like
when I got to America, I was like, man, you rappers?
Is y'all got it? Made like you're on the project?
Y'all complaining? I'm like, yo, I said, you I ever
heard of a hut? You know what I mean? Like, Yo,
y'all got electricity? Here? I said, you ever heard of
oil with a lamp on it? They say they are
(16:54):
Disneyland here? I said, yo, Disneyland. We used to play
in the back of a cemetery. This is like, hey,
which ghost is coming out today? I'm like, yo, dude.
So I got to America I was ten years old.
By the time I was seventeen, I was traveling and
I was part of a jazz ensemble. I learned how
to play ten different instruments at a very young age.
(17:17):
So by the time the jazz teachers saw me doing
all of this, she was like, where did you learn this?
You know? One, five, seven? What is? I didn't know
what the hell she was talking about. She was like,
you ever heard a Thelonious Monk? I'm like, who's that
is that? A karate person? Does this person do karate?
Is like someone from Shoalton Monk? Like, um, so they
gets you into all of this, so I have to
believe that there is an alternative energy. So the score
(17:43):
was done and my uncle's basement. My father, literally because
he was a minister, kicked me out the house. He
was like, you know, you can't serve two masters. Either
you're gonna serve the Lord, You're gonna serve the devil,
and you're gonna serve the devil. You gotta get the
hell out of this house, so you know, so he
kicks me out and my uncle takes me and he's like, yo,
it ain't like he's selling drugs or nothing. The kids
(18:04):
just doing his music. Puts me in this basement and
we get into this basement, and you have to think
of it. The score which y'all all have, was done
inside of a basement with a four or five six
Ampex Rerail machine track right Impex Rerail, and I wanted
it to be sixty four tracks in my brain, so
(18:26):
that means that the empty which is the track, all
my nerves is listening right now. Then we got twenty
three tracks to work with, so I started bouncing. You know,
I was a big fan of Freddie Mercury, so that's
how I was doing the Fuji's vocals. So I literally
was recording like twenty thirty tracks, bouncing down to twenty three,
bouncing down to twenty two. Then this is the funniest
(18:48):
thing with the score. We're in the basement, were in
the hood. Now I got a ground problem. Everything I'm recording,
I could hear the ground. Google Google. Then I remember
the old Franken style movie and I said, Okay, how
do I get rid of this ground? So I said, okay,
I know what I'm gonna do. So I got seven
hangars and I put them in seven pillars of the ceiling.
(19:09):
So what happened is so the ground you could literally
catch it on the hangar and you could move it
like you can and you can move it once again,
I was on a donkey. So where the hell that
all of this came from? So it actually just came
from paying close attention, being intuitive accent questions in science class,
(19:30):
because in science you're building this cell. You know, they're
like if you connect this to this, like years later,
you don't know you're about to use seven hangers on
the score. It's just like, oh this should I remember
what I did in science class. It's mystical. I have
to believe in the astros, right because I'm still trying
to figure how I got here and how we still
do what we do. And when I spent small time
(19:51):
with Carlos Santana, you know, when he was like, yo,
there's like really no more geniuses, I'm like, Yo, Santana
is the only person um Santana and Tom Jones. I
even did a record called Tim Jones International because I
wanted to spend time with these dudes because I want
to understand what I have to do next. And I
feel like what I have to do next it's not
(20:11):
based off of popularity, but based off a legacy. So
you get to spend time with these dudes, you know,
And I'm accent Santana about like Hendricks, like Jimmy Hendricks,
like and this guy can actually give me information, like
there's really people around and I'm with Tom Jones and
Tom Jones is like, yo, let me tell you how
gully it was back when we was coming up. He
(20:32):
was like cleft. Literally when we was in Vegas, we
were sharing showers, like so the next person would have
to literally stand and wait for the next person in
the shower, and he's like, yo, so I'm freaking standing,
you know, and I'm waiting and Elvis is in the
goddamn showing, you know. And like those kind of stories,
(20:53):
when you see who those people become, I have to
at the end of the day believe like certain people
are just cause medically something going on with the astros
that connects us, you know, you know. And on that note,
by the way, that's one of the greatest diet tribes
I've ever heard. When you go from donkeys trying donkeys
a school to hangars and the and the score in
the basement. I mean, that was you guys. Just edit
(21:17):
that piece out and give it to me so I
can listen to it like fifty time. Because speaking of serendipity,
Larry Mullen told me that the reason you Too is
you Too is because he just put it add in
the newspaper. And they were the first three guys that
showed up. You know, drummers would have showed up, they
would have been four drummers. You know. He's like, I'm
just gonna get the first four guys, and that was it.
There's a little dinner and and there's a little twilight
(21:38):
happening there too, right I mean, and then here they
are still like all these years later. Yeah, you can't
force collaboration. You can't. It's got to be organic, Like
you could inspire it. Maybe there's a catalyst for it,
maybe there's something that you know, you heard, you saw
that you you gravitate towards. But if you force it,
you're not gonna have these amazing stories. And I have
this incredible result or product at the end of it.
(22:01):
And I think sometimes brands have to take a little
bit of risk. So before Gap, I led a global
marketing for Calvin Klein, which is also brand that has
a rich history of working with artists. And I think
of two campaigns where there was a calculator risk that
paid off in a very very big way. First with
Marky Mark this was a guy who was not well known,
was a little bit raw. He almost defined the Calvin
(22:23):
Klein underwear business in the nineties. And then the Babes. Right,
Calvin Klein cast Bieber at maybe one of his lowest points, right,
and there was certainly some stuff in the press about,
you know, where Biber was going. But they took a
risk and it popped in a very very big way
to a young generation so again a little bit of risk,
I think is a good thing for brand as well.
(22:44):
You have to be willing to take that ra you have,
you willing to roll the dice and see what happens.
Speaking of yeah, speaking rolling the dice. Right now, our
friend Floyd just brought us in some cocktails so we
could keep collaborating on this podcast. Time to take a
break with our friends from Bullet Frontier Whiskey. Please drink responsibly.
He's a great Floyd Pink Floyd. So you're drinking a
(23:11):
drink I call the old Nighter. It is an old
fashioned variation with Bullet. I use a little bit of
a local Austin coffee Liqueur he roasted here, he makes it.
Here is a little bit of caffeine. It's fantastic, and
a little bit of crimtic A cow is a little
bit of chocolate. You taste Again's aguinness really plays well
with the bourbon. When I walked in, White Cleft said, oh,
(23:31):
marshmallows the theme we're talking about his marketing and the
simplest little thing A marshmallow comes on your drink. A
toasted marshmallow is the garnish and I bring that to
you at a bar. Everybody at the bar is gonna say,
why isn't there a marshmallow in my drink? What is that?
Why did he get a marshmallow? You walk that through
a bar on a tray and everybody turns and looks like,
what is that? I want to know about that? It's
(23:52):
a two cent marshmallow. The next thing I want to drink.
What I can make that happen for you? We're gonna
have post. We call it the all nighter. Yeah, That's
what I used to do in the hood, Just make
songs up. You know, there are brands, there are brands
(24:16):
that will pay good money for that. I think Craig
Craig just found his new inspiration for the spring campaign.
Great trap. Did not know I was going to get
that in my life, So I was good, I know,
I even though I needed it until I happened. All Right,
we absolutely need Floyd. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure.
(24:36):
This has been fantastic. Thank you. Grab some the spirits
here wrote the story. I have no all the there
we go bullet frontier whiskey. Please drink responsibly. Talk to
(25:10):
us a little bit about this podcast you have and
what was the inspiration for that. I'm the founding board
member of the Innocence Project. Actually, so, I've been working
on what I call getting people out of prisoner don't
belong there for almost twenty five years. You know. The
Inscence Project is an organization that uses DNA to exonerate
people who are serving time for crimes they didn't commit.
(25:30):
We've been able to free hundreds of people and change
laws and change the protocols to prevent future wrongful convictions
as well. There's even been twenty people on death row
we've been exonerated. Now. Um so I call it selfish altruism,
you know, because it makes me feel good, But um
I get so much out of it. Just being around
the exonorees has always been an amazing experience for me.
(25:51):
They're so courageous, they're so strong, they're so graceful, and
they have this almost bizarre sense of optimism and hope.
And I had a guy on my podcast few weeks
who served thirty four years in prisoners something didn't do.
And it's incredible to because it's a guy named Keith
Allen Harward. And I said to him, Keith, I go,
how the hell did you keep your sanity? He's from Virginia,
you know, so he's got that accent and everything. I
(26:12):
can do his accent pretty well if you don't mind it.
The Keith like, how the hell did you survive? And
there is a guy who had no record before he
went in. You know, he was in the Navy, convicted
of a brutal crime, framed, and he says, yeah, man,
he said Jason, listen, man, he says, you know, and
when I was stuck in there in a six by
nine foot cell with another guy for a long time,
you know, I'm like, well, damned, Keith, I mean, like,
(26:33):
how do you do it? And he says, well, j
C says listen, man. He goes, I was innocent, so
that helped. And I was like, well, wouldn't have help me.
It would have made me crazier. You know, no one
I was innocent in there. And he says, well, man, listen,
he says, you know, when I went to prison, I
just I just said to myself, you know what, Keith.
You know, I said to myself that they took my
freedom and they took my body. But I'm not gonna
(26:55):
let him take my mind, because if I do that,
I'm letting him win. And I was like, oh, like,
I felt like I was in the presence of like
a deity. So the podcast Wrongful Conviction, you know, I
interview a different Xenoree each week and walk them through
their insane stories of having been you know, arrested and
wrongfully convicted and serving decades in prison for crimes they
(27:17):
didn't commit, and along the way try to educate the
public on how commonness is and what the causes are
and how to prevent it from happening in the future.
And you know, music is my job and I love it,
but this is like my calling. It's such a noble
cause to be able to do that and help so
many people and maybe inspire others to take action, especially
in the climate that we're in today. And that's a
(27:39):
whole other podcast, right, But what role obligation do you
think artists save or brands have to actually take action?
And maybe not just organically or because it's a passion
of there is just something they're connected to, but to
make some demonstrable change in this world, especially with everything
that's been going on. Well, I mean, you know, I
think that everybody's not just brand as our artists, like,
(28:00):
everybody just has a responsibility to try to right wrongs
and try to help their fellow man and to help
the earth and you know, all living things. I'm starting
a movement and my philosophy is be kind to yourself,
to other people, to animals in the earth, try to
help people as much as you can. And personal freedom
is an important thing to me, you know. But but yeah,
everybody has a responsibility. It's very strange because the people
(28:23):
in Washington right now feel the opposite way, right, I mean,
it's all about narcissism and greed, and let's face the evil.
What they're doing is evil now more than ever. We
all have a responsibility to stand up, to resist, to
do everything in our power to you know, try to
counterbalance that insanity want and to unify people, not divide people.
(28:47):
It's united, we stand divided, we fall like we hear that,
but yeah, then we see what's going on in the world.
It's not unity other than the people who are just
so appalled by it in front of that too, right,
gap is he's been that sort of color blind. We're
all that's one kind of there's no doubt, and I
mean that's I think part of the reason why I'm
so excited to join this brand at this time. Right,
(29:08):
So we were the first fortune company to establish equal
pay for women. Obviously, we've had a longer history with
Red and the great work they do defied AIDS in
Africa around the world. Certainly we have an amazing track
record and trying to do a better job with environmental impact.
I mean, those are the values that get everyone excited
to go to work again. I think given the time
(29:29):
that we live in, we have an opportunity to engage
in some of those issues even more than we have
in the last couple of years. Does an artist pro
social activity come into play? What are you thinking about? That?
For me is crazy because one of my mottos is
fellow COULTI and I actually ran to become president and
(29:53):
hats trying to get assassinated. My name was wrong for
used it. I mean, and I commend you, my brother,
like you're the real deal man on what you're doing.
Like I commend you because I understand. You know. There's
a movie I send a text, they're gonna send it
to me. It won the Sundance Festival. It's about a
(30:15):
Caribbean brother that was locked up for twenty years and
eventually they ended up getting him out. I'm gonna get
you the name of the movie before I left. So
for me, it's a tricky thing, you know. And Bono
who's one of my mentors, Like Bono is like one
of my heroes. So at times, you know, you felt confused,
so you gotta talk to somebody like, yo, are you
doing the right thing? Because it's not popular now. It's
(30:40):
sort of like a little more popular because socially people
want to get more engaged right now, you know, artists
want to get more engaged now. But when I was
doing it, it's not a popular thing to say. Okay,
you write like hips don't lie, you know, and after
you write this song, you say, okay, this one of
this like perhaps the biggest air played song of all times.
(31:01):
Then you go, well, this is how I want to
lead the earth, Like I come from this place. I
used to ride a donkey, and so this is what
I want the world to understand about me. So now
you're fighting because your agents and everyone's like, yo, dude,
don't go there. You're basically gonna lose it all. Stay
away from politics. Don't go you know my foundation, yell haiti,
(31:23):
I mean the scandals around it and saying I stole
money from my charity, which I denounced everything. When you
was watching the elections, I think you gotta grasp on
how politics work and how you know when it's time
for them to come for you, they're gonna come in
a certain way. So I'm happy though now because I
see artists are a little more like engaged, like in
(31:44):
the sense of you okay, in the award shows, they're
using their platforms a little more. I commend them on that.
This is very important and it's bravery right. So for me,
Gap was always like you know what, it's like a
rebel brand. That's why I like Got because it's not
easy to make a lot of money, to be a
(32:05):
billion dollar company and be like, oh, at the same time,
I'm gonna talk about all of this fib that's going on.
So it's not an easy thing. You know Bono which
is a mentor, you know, learning from him, watching him,
having a chance to talk to him multiple times, it
makes me even want to engage more, you know what
I mean. I don't say it because artists would be
(32:26):
I don't talk it. So when I tell you, like
if I was president, I get elected on Friday. It
ain't no song, bro, like you could look online. I
got my boots on. You know, I'm heavy on the
ground because I believe at the end of the day,
all we do have is us. And what that means
is like the earth was so created already, like with
the animals to get along with the humans and the
(32:47):
flowers to provide oxygen. It's so perfect at times, and
the only thing that divides us is like when men
come around and decide, you know what, forget all of this.
The world has to worship me. So whenever this happens,
we have as a people have to make sure that
we get together, you know what I mean? Definitely that
(33:08):
is absolutely a hundred in the world that we're in today. Yeah, man,
it's got a change, right facts, it's crazy, and it's
driven by a number of things, right, and greed is
probably the most corrosive element of it, right because when
you look at these guys who are denying climate science
and all this other stuff, for trying to cancel everybody's
(33:30):
health care because because they want more money, Like, what
are you gonna do with it? It's a selfishness, not
a self many yachts can you water skip behind. It
doesn't make any sense, like only one at a time, dude,
it doesn't make any practical sense saying you know, I
become involved recently with trying to save the rhinos, right,
because it's so odd when you look at nature the
(33:53):
way you were just talking about it. And to me,
I don't know why, but rhinos, to me are the
most beautiful, iconic species. They haven't evolved in ends of
millions of years because I haven't needed to. Nobody looks
called the rhino, right, They're perfect, and so now they're
going to be extinct in five to seven years if
we don't stop this poaching business that's going on, and
(34:13):
it's all driven by money. And I was in Africa
a couple of months ago, and when you get around
a rhino, I haven't experienced anything better than that. They
are the most benign, incredible, gentle, giant, powerful creatures. They
don't want to hurt anything like hippos are dangerous, like
hippos will right, you're an anywhere near a hippo shomp
you in half, and that's fine, and I have a
(34:35):
right to be on the planet too, But it's just
ironic that rhinos, who are so powerful you can just
go up and pat them. Don't recommend it, but I
did it. They're like giant docks. It makes me crazy.
But I'm working with this organization called vet PAW now,
which US military veterans who go over there and work
for next to nothing on the ground, like training African
rangers to be able to defend themselves and take care
of the rhinos and resting and trying to break up
(34:57):
these rhino poaching rings and stuff, you know, before it's
too late. That's phenomenal. Yeah, it's it's good stuff. I'm
not jealous of many people, but if you haven't been
Africa yet, I'm jealous because you get to go there
for the first time. It's like the first time you
watch Breaking Bad. That ship is incredible. I kissed the
rhino and I liked it. Let me tell you, there
we go. That's gonna be your tag later. So on
(35:23):
a slight twist on that, what are the cautionary tales
when trying to collaborate with brands and artists or causes?
Like what are some of your stories about like when
it hasn't worked and that you've recognized maybe this was
the wrong decision, right, should have thought about it differently.
We gotta cut bait and run. I don't know if
we should name names. I think the things that don't
work is it just forced. Both sides see dollar signs
(35:46):
in their eyes, and it just comes across as very,
very in authentic. Right when you're able to sit down
with an artist, ask him or her kind of what
they're trying to do, and then the brand has that
interaction with the artists on that level, that's where the
good stuff happened, not just this smash up of unnatural
shared like a shared belief clouded by the dollar science. Yeah,
(36:07):
that's critical, but you know, having said that focus in
marking for Calvin, for Abercrom, for Gap, I mean, when
you engage with anyone from the outside, you are taking
a bit of a risk, right, exposing yourself to something
that could happen, especially in this crazy social media age
where everything is hyper criticized. So we do have to
think through what way could this go in order to
(36:30):
protect the brand of sum extent as well. I think
you're right that authenticity. You can't fake it because people
see you right through it. Especially in this day and
age with social media and technology. It's just there's too
much at risk for that sort of misstep. You don't
want to be known for that, right. It's been a
lot of fun, but we're coming up to our end
of our show, and I got one question for each
of you because you've told some phenomenal stories and I
(36:53):
just want to keep doing this, but maybe we'll do
it after. What's your tagline? I guess you're looking at me,
so I'll start here. So again, new gig four months in.
It's mine the gap man. I have a simple one man.
To live for yourself is to live selfishly, but to
live for others is to live an eternity. Man. Yeah, man, Jason,
(37:16):
you know, do the right thing even when nobody's watching,
you know, maybe especially when nobody's watching. My dad gave
me and my brother the best advice when we were kids,
and I gave my kids the same advice, which is
he said, do whatever you want to do, try to
be the best at it, but just make the world
a better place. He said, if you do that, you'll
(37:38):
be a success in my eyes. And I revered, and
I looked up to my dad and getting him put
the right words for everything that he was, And so
I wanted to be a success in his eyes. And
obviously that stuck with me because he told me that
when I was a child. You know, try to follow that.
And I think if you can follow that and pass
that on, then you know, we can hopefully build a
(37:59):
collect the consciousness that will bring us to a better place.
Because where we're at now and so good. I think
for all you guys have each done on your own
and maybe collectively coming out of this, there's gonna be
a lot of good done in the world and a
lot more to come. And uh, I think that adds
up to success. So, by the way, I just want
to say, I've been around and seeing some things. Here
(38:22):
just landing in Austin and sit next to this guy
that some words you talked about, like that whole thing
when you were talking about that whole synergy thing, Like
certain things like how did this happen? How did this happen?
Like how like we we could have tried to plan
it this like for years, it would have never happened.
(38:45):
It just know had to happen. The land late is
just universe. Take us out. Your man w about to
take you without no doubt. Now pay your attention, Austin.
I used to this free style offten. Excuse me if
I started the little it's the it's tricking me now listen. Yeah,
(39:09):
I came to Austin, I'd beat the pro. I got
here a little late. I had the problem with the snow.
But it's cool, man, I got the reason, and I
respect my man for taking people out of prison that
ain't guilty. Man, Yo, I'm not mc man. Some herd
Fuji's thought I was Japanese. I chi needs someng chi
(39:29):
no cochichi ha chi. She looked at me. I said,
I'm not Japanese. I'm y cleve young. I flipped the
language I could call Donald Trump and flipping in Spanish
like me, I me got windows. Dr Senior dea sue
find me to y'all Esto and dortben and me grow
for no and sped says stung being como Joe. Y'all listening,
(39:54):
y'all still ain't convinced. Y'all might get convinced when I'm
flipping in French case your ma the lover luda lamore junk. Well,
come on, yes, comes you on my pew with Meyo,
silly st my v does you are liple wool yep?
Why cleft staying at Brooklyn Zone. My people and flat
(40:15):
Bush told me to tell you, Shalon, we want peace
in the world. This is how we do. My name
is why Cliff I wrapped that Fuji crew. They say,
I'm all about peace. Why I carry a piece because
I'd be damn if y'all shooting me with the same bullet. Y'all.
Shot Kennedy, same bullet, shot Martin in the balcony, same bullet.
Travel to India and shot Gandhi, same bullet, shot Jumpling
(40:37):
and in New York City, Tupacott in Vegas, Big Giant,
and Cali, same bullet. Travel to them out on the Olivia. Yeah,
and then the pop check at a good night y'all. Yeah, awesome,
(40:57):
It's been real. You've been listening to tagline presented by
our friends at Bullet Frontier Whiskey at the Bullet Distilling Company, Louisville, Kentucky.
Please drink responsibly. We want to hear what you thought.
Joined the discussion on Twitter now by using the hashtag tagline.
(41:21):
Check out our next episode as Adam Schlatterer of Pooblicist
Media invite superstar artist Melissa Etheridge visas Innovation lead Chris
Curtain in jingle Punk Jared Goose Dodd to discuss creativity
and collaboration. Catch all of our episodes at i heart
radio dot com, slash tagline in the I heart Radio app,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Yea audiation.
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