October 10, 2023 • 44 mins
On this episode of Takin' A Walk Buzz Knight talks to Duke Fakir, The last remaining member of The Four Tops.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
The first big engagement he got us was in Denver, Colorado,
which he'll exist the Wolhurst Country Club and we start
singing and this big talk just got the screaming. I mean,
you got a pitch and all that. The propriety came
up to us and say get out of here, get
off my stage.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
On this episode of Taking a Walk, Joined Buzz night
as he talks with a living legend, Duke Fakir is
the last surviving member of the Four Tops. He and
Kathleen McGee Anderson wrote the book I'll Be There, My
Life with the Four Tops. Joined Buzz next with Duke Fakir.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
So let's go to the Taking a Walk virtual hotline.
I want to ask, am I speaking with the living legend,
heavenly voice, amazing soul named Duke Fakir.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Well, this is Duke Faki now almost because you given
and all of that, you know that may be part
of me, I'm not sure I'll let you you be
the one that's besides.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
But yes, this is due procure and I'm very happy
to be talking to you, buddy.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I'm so grateful to be talking to you, Duke. The
book is tremendous you're the author of I'll Be There,
My Life with the Four Tops.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah you did read it. No, that's good.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh man. The book just radiates.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
It's just radiates of joy, sir, it really does well.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you. I can't wait to get it out as
a musical so people can really understand who the Four
Tops are were and and how it all came about
and how joyful it was for us. It was and
it still is for me, you know, because the best
(01:56):
best part of my day is still on stage.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So the books available at Amazon, and we're going to
talk about bringing it to the stage a little bit
later on.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
But do me a favorite, duke. Take me back.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
You're three years old, right, and you're waiting for your
pops to bring you one of those Coney Island hot
talks that are so notable from the Detroit, Michigan area.
Tell me, can you remember how good that puppy tasted
when he brought it home?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well? Absolutely yes, And I still eat them. That's how
well I remember. I still love those Coney Islands just
and I can. You know, I can remember more about
when I was younger than I can what I did yesterday.
It's just amazing. Sometimes the mine worked, But that's still
(02:49):
those hot dogs strung me out. I mean I still
eat them twoday. I look forward to eat and eat them,
and I'll go out and get him or have somebody
get him for me. But I don't need a lot
of them at a time. I might eat one and
then skip a day and then I need another one.
But I still love, absolutely loving.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
As I said, Duke, the book radiates of love and
of gratitude. Those are some lessons that really shaped you,
especially in your early days, from your your folks.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Correct, correct, I'm thankfully. I've always been surrounded by a
lot of love and it has really helped me. I
mean it was that that has always been me. Whenever
I'm in a situation or around people where there's not
love radiating them, I'm very uncomfortable. My family was a
(03:51):
very lovable family. Then we went to the Forks Tops family,
which was all about love, respect and honor, and and
I see it in the people's eyes day in and
day out, every every every show, because I look at
people very intensely, and I like to you know, reaction,
(04:13):
and I can see a lot of love and a
lot of respect, and it's always to me, everything seems
to me to be about a family of love. Even
my team that we're working on the musical, that the
young lady that helped me write the book, because it's
all it's all about love, and I am. I don't
(04:34):
mind saying it, you know, because you know, love comes.
Love comes in so many different poems, you know, and
I've experienced pretty much all the forms that there are.
If love is the common denominator, oh, then it's such
a joy. I just like that. I was like I
was born with it, you know. I think I'm born
(04:57):
on the sense, you know, between the Maslem and Christian
and both of those are really about peace and love.
And I think I've really got a good part of
both of those because I feel that I'm very uncomfortable
when I'm around things that does not radiate love. I'm
just like that, and I understand it, and I'll just
(05:20):
hurry up. I'll turn my back and walk away quickly.
You know. I don't have a run from anything, but
I know how to get out. You know how to
get out from growing up in Detroit. You have to
learn how to escape this different situations. So I know
how to. But most of the time in my especially
(05:42):
since I've been grown up, I've experienced a lot, a lot,
a lot of love. And my wife and I we
are on forty ninth year as soon as it hits
next year, which is twenty four. Just like we was
singing with the Top, for any one of us passed away,
we did like forty forty years together at least, you know,
(06:06):
and I still kept it going even as the guys
you know, went home. I just kept it going because
it was a gift to us to do. And I'm
just very pro proud that I was a member or
I am a member of the Four Tops, Which is
the thing about love. They gave a lot of love.
(06:27):
In fact, when we first got together, it changed, I
can tell right away it changed their perspective of people.
Then they said, you know, they started looking at loving
people and the joint. You know, it was just it
was so much love, so much understanding, and there was
so much talent there. You know, when you're young and
(06:50):
have talent, you know, you can really show it in
different ways. And we were very fortunate in having a
young man his head. He knew every note in every
chord and he just would pass it on to us.
You know, it's amazing how he could hear he could
(07:13):
we could have be rehearsing with a ten piece band
and if one of them hit a room and say, hey,
hey you that first also and that was a B
flat not a bee you know, and stuff like that. Uh,
that's amazing. That's a hell of a gift, you know,
especially in entertainment. Uh. And it has passed on to
(07:36):
his son who sings with us now. So it's it's amazing.
It's been amazing there because it's stilled with all kinds
of wonderful, wonderful stories and side sidebars and and things,
but it's all grafted from love. And I look at
the world today and I said, how where what happened
(07:59):
to the to the love? To me? There was so
much more love when I was a kid. I mean
in the world, not just in my family. But you know,
even though there was segregation, there was still it. Just
well we we knew it existed, and you're just try
not to do things to bring it and put the
(08:20):
balloon in your face. When music is in the air,
the people don't think about color, nationality and all that.
Music is his own world and it sucks people in,
especially if it's done really well, and it sounds good
and feels good. People didn't think about anything but what
(08:43):
that feeling is. And I've experienced watching I've watched people
who who I thought would be racially compelled to do
or be another way, but music would just st will
soothe the heart and you know, and just bring them
into the fold. I remember on our first Motown tour, well,
(09:06):
you know it was it was segregated. We were played
and segregated audiences. Uh, you know, the blacks would have
to sit up in the balcony and all the whites
would be on the first floor. So after about two
or three gigs, Barry Gordy's sister who ran Esther Gordy,
who who ran those tours and then created those tours
(09:29):
for all the tops and the temps and every and
everyone that was there, she said, look, we can't keep
doing this, she says. So she just broke up the
tour and she said, let's go home. Said this is
not good, you know, And we went home. And after
some conversation I guess with promoters and different people, they
(09:51):
made they created another tour and it was it was
just a loving tour. I mean, we for the first
time you really saw people don't be dancing together of
different colors. The music just they would get out their
seat and just go to dancing. And it was just amazing, wonderful,
wonderful sight to see, you know, it was standing. We
(10:13):
would stand backstage, all of us, every artist, and kind
of keep an eye on what's going on, you know,
just from being used to doing that, from watching out
because we didn't know, you know, what was going on
sometimes with the audiences. But after that, it was just
a joy to see how people just they loved, they
(10:34):
loved the music. They didn't think about it, you know,
they didn't care. You know, of course there's always want
ed to somewhere that have their own well thank you,
but we I'm talking about it. People were full of love, understanding, happiness,
joy and all that kind of stuff, and you could
feel it and it would just make you. It would
make you sing more from your heart than just singing
(10:58):
words and notes. You know, you would be singing a
feeling and you try to project it and give it,
give it out to them because they've given you a
great feeling with all their their collaps, they're dancing, singing
with you, and it's just it's just a joy, and
this deal is the best part of my day. You know.
(11:21):
Even even now, I'm totally enjoyed. I can't wait to
get to work because it's not work, it's joyful. It's
just being in a in an arena of joy.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Oh, Duke, I love that comment. An arena of joy.
That's a beautiful way to put it. Now, there's a
number of characters, Duke in the book who they kind
of shape the storyline. There's one I want to ask
you about that was really important. Maybe I'll ask you
about a couple. Uh Joe Anne Artist. First of all,
talk about what she meant to you early on in
(11:56):
your life.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Giant giant art. This was a schoolmate, but she belonged.
She was like to hit of this club of black girls.
She haras odd and she she and the girls, they
were crazy about it about us, you know. And when
(12:17):
she gave this party, we we that's how we got together.
But she she liked us individually anyway. She was just
that kind of girl. And we were, you know, we
act classy, we weren't, but when we act when at
that age because we liked being around them. They were beautiful,
they were understanding, they were smart, Uh, and so when
(12:40):
she gave this party, and that's how we really got together.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Me and Levi had been together for a while, uh
thinking about singing and and and how we could get
a group and what. And then we decided to get
mister Benson because she had a nice bartone own voice
and he could almost sing jinn know, he had a
very good range. Then he's a smiling guy. He's very
(13:07):
good with the girls. And Lawrence Peyton, now we knew
his family was totally about music. I would walk by
down the street where he lived. We all lived in
the same neighborhood, and they would be sitting on the porch,
all parts of their family singing, singing all kinds of singing, lullabout,
(13:27):
singing church songs, singing gospel singing, love songs. And to
find out that Lawrence Peyton is his family is a
descendant from the Ellington, from Duke Ellington. So their music
somehow another just runs through that family in their heads.
They can they know music without having to study anything,
(13:52):
and they just hear it and it's just amazing.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Okay, Duke, now tell me about this gentleman. I think
he was I'm not mistaken. He was known as the
ex con singer named Welton Barnett.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, Welton Barnette he was I think you mis understood
that Welton Barnett was not the singer. He was a
guy that kind of he was like a manager, you know.
But he would set and he would ask us to sing.
We would get gigs now he could get. He would
get gigs for us and we would go to Toledo
(14:31):
where he lives, and he would have us singing at
one of these clubs. And then he's the one that
got us an engagement in Denver and that was this
was before the Four Tops. This was basically just Levi
and I and we would get whatever he would put together. Uh,
(14:51):
and it was it was a chore really because Levi
was the great lead singer. But Wilson Evarnett, he liked
this tall couldn't to me, couldn't sing a fucking note,
but but he sang. But he sings so loud and
so high. And then Levi I was just you know,
(15:11):
and try to get with it. The first big engagement
he got us was in Denver, Colorado, which still exists,
the Wolhurst Country Club. And we start singing and this
big tall guy just got the screaming, I mean, out
of pitch and all that. The propriety came up to
(15:33):
us and say, get the funk out of here, get
off my stage. If you heard this guy singing, you know,
you know he had in fact, he was an ex con.
He had he had no business, you know, being in
show business at all. He looked like a convict too.
He was one in his head. He still was and
(15:53):
his voice was.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Still you know the look. I could actually visualize it
from the book. I could see the look between you
and Levi Stubbs actually kind of looking at each other,
almost rolling your eyes when that guy was singing.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yep, it was just yeah. If you could tell then
that there was something going on, people would watch up
and me, leave me and leave I would be eyeing
each other almost. We were almost crack it up because
you know, it's pretty hard, you know, just keep calm
and be smiling and be pleasant for the artist. One
(16:32):
of your lead singer is sounding like shit keeps you know,
that's just but anyway, uh, we lived through it. And
right after that, after that guy put through us out
of his place in Denver, Levi we and I we
took a bus and get home. And it was very
soon after that that we went to because of LEVI
(16:54):
and I were in school together. Also very soon after
that that when Joan and ih just this lovely young
girl gave that party. Now I saw her the rest
of my life up until about four or four years ago,
because he worked at Triple A and I always kept
(17:16):
Triple A and Shure because I always got a chance
to see her and talk to her a little bit
every now and then. So, you know, life is life
has been approval for me. You know, there's been ups
and downs, but it's the ups has been so far
up that you I can't even think about the downs.
(17:36):
If I do, it's in a joking music way. You
know how we got through it and all of that.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Now, Duke, there's some venues that you talk about in
the book. I'll mention a couple. Get your reaction. One
I'll mention is the Ebony Lounge in Cleveland, and the
other it's called Eddie's Lounge in Slint. Mission again, paint
a picture of what these places were like.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Okay, back in the fifties, there were quite a few
of these type of clubs. There are clubs that maybe
sit sit from six hundred down to two hundred, you know,
and they always had a little combo plan and they
would have artists that were just if they would book
(18:26):
for one night or two nights or for a weekend.
And they were in almost every city. Uh And there
were mostly you know, black oone clubs and black run clubs,
and it was pretty much, you know, it was pretty
much just a good hangout and for them just to
have a little extra entertainment on the weekend, which a
(18:51):
lot of a lot of groups and artists were coming
up at that time. And there was always in every
city there were both kind of clubs partially to paint
that picture if you got there, but it's just it's
just wonderful clubs. People just hanging out for the weekends
and on the you know, on the weekends usually or
(19:12):
sometimes for a whole week according to how the club was,
uh managed. Well, we like to hang out. What I
mean by we, I'm talking about all my all the
black people I know I've always enjoyed. They work hard
during the week and on the weekends they want to
get out and hang out with people and have fun
and listen to music, to sing and dance and I
(19:36):
believe everybody in Detroit the saying I always believe that.
Somebody said, how many groups come out of Detroit. I say,
I don't know, I said, but there could be as
many groups as they want. But to me, everybody destroyed
say they always have been around music, whether it's in
whether it's in church, or whether it's somewhere, They've always
been around music. And they just expect you to be
(19:58):
able to sing. And they can sing this up, and
they know singing. They know when you're not hitting them notes.
And they also know when you're hitting notes and making
great harmony, and when you sing it from your heart
or when you're singing this is my home. I love Detroit.
I love how it's come through its changes. I just
can't wait till her till the day because it's getting
(20:21):
it the end of my career, and I'm starting to
think what you're going to do when you retire. Now.
A month or two ago, I was thinking about it.
I looked at my age and I said, Duke, you've
been doing this for them. It's seventy years now. It
just seemed that you should not have to want to
do it anymore. I said, well, okay, I think I'll
(20:43):
start I'm talking to myself. So I talked to my
wife and I was talking about when I possible and retire,
and it was just that we're talking about a few
months ahead. And then that's just a couple of years ago.
That's when the pandemic hit. We stayed at home for
so long. I said, you know what, this is retirement
(21:03):
and this ain't shit. I just wait until I can't
do it no more. So here I am now not
thinking about retirement. I'm thinking about moving forward. I still
can dance a little. I've lost quite a few steps
because of my hips, operations and things like that. So
(21:28):
this is what I do. You know, and guess what
I was made for this.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
You know, one of your mentors in the book that
you talk about is the great Billy Eckstein, and he said,
and I'll quote, you've got to love the audience. And
I think at its core that's why you're going to
keep doing this, because you just love your audience.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That is absolutely true? It really is. I mean the
feeling I get, I'm anxious every show before it's time
to go on, I'm anxious to get out there and
perform and I'd like to scan the audience and and
try to read their expressions. And it's always great expressions,
you know. It's very seldom can I look out there
(22:17):
and find a person with a frown on their face.
It's just and it's just wonderful, you know. It's just
you know, to feel love and respect every night that
you perform. That is that is a way of life itself.
Living in that atmosphere work And you know, I hate
to call this work because it's not work. To me,
(22:39):
work is getting on the getting on my bus and
traveling to engage that that to me is work. But
once we h that's their venue, it's just all play.
For me, it's like a basketball player getting in the gym,
you know, get once I get the stage. That's that's
why I feel it home and the most. And I
(23:02):
just I love watching people get the feeling. You know,
it's just amazing, you know that you can you can
see how much they enjoy it, and it's just it
just gets me. And I think it still gets even
the news outs, you know, uh, I think we they've
learned that this is what it's about. It's about the
(23:26):
people having as much fun as you or more. Yeah,
And it's about transferring something to them so that they
get it. It ain't it ain't just about singing notes.
It ain't just about you know, dressing well. It's about
giving out a spirit of love in your music that
(23:47):
they can feel and and they respond when you do that.
You know. We know when somebody is aching and then
don't give their best, you know, and it and it
hurts the whole group to me, and we have long
talked about it, said, look, man, you cannot carry anything
that's happened to you in the day, on the night
(24:07):
of what happened at home. You can't carry that on stage.
The stage is for you to wipe it out and
to feel what the audience have for you. They're waiting
to give you that love and you can tell and
when you do it right, you get it right away.
And then it's just a wonderful love affairs and it's
(24:30):
and it's amazing. It's amazing for me when I think
about it. To go through life. My job is going
to places where there's love, always love, respect.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Sama Duke.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
There's been some moments of incredible faithful moments, I would say,
and faithful.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Moments that come up in the book.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
There's one in particular I want to ask you about,
and that is the locker Bee moment. It's kind of
a moment of faith, and say, can you talk about
that experience, just how you knew before then that there
was like a higher power that was kind of working
in your life, and you certainly knew there was a
higher power after that.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh. Absolutely. We were in London, England, and we had
two different shows to two different sets to do on
two different days. For this particularly show, which was their
big rock show, I'll think of the name in a minute,
(25:34):
the producer wanted us to do like it was scheduled.
You do two songs today and tomorrow you can do
two songs on our next set. So now this is
close to very close to Christmas, very close, you know.
We said, look, man, it'd be nice if we could
just check one day, even if you wanted to change clothes, Gale,
(25:59):
come on for minutes and come back and do a
couple of mores. You know. He said no, He said no,
it's set up that you have to do the second night.
I said no, And we tried every kind of conversation
to him and and he just would not change and
I am so we would after after we realized what
(26:20):
really happened. We were so bad. I'm telling you, we
all we all wanted to go kiss that guy, honestly,
hug him or something that produced it. I said, had
he had he listened to us, we wouldn't be here.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
So Duke, cause I'm hearing the story correctly. You and
the rest of the band members. You were supposed to
be on that plane that went down.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
We were listen. We were trying to get on that plane.
We tried everything possible. That you're really good. It shows
that we tried everything possible. You know. We we had
my road managers book us. We thought we could talk
to this guy into letting us do everything we had
to do in one day, even if we had to
(27:04):
change clothes, you know, with Jessic ching songs or whatever
he wanted done. But they wouldn't listen. He said, no,
it has to go just like it is. And he,
to me, was the one that kept us getting on
their flight. And when I got home, I mean, people
were waiting at the airport, but I was so I'm
(27:25):
still thinking of what could have happened. And I didn't
really speak to the people, but I was so glad
to see my wife. I did see me and told
on let's go home. I just want to get home.
I mean, because that frightened me for quite a while.
And the rest of us said, we we tried with
all our hearts to walk into a death plan. I mean,
(27:49):
that is amazing that we were saved by this producer,
because if it wasn't for him sticking to his plan,
we would have been gone. And great director upstairs, he
knows all that and he prepares it, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
And there was this other moment to Duke that was
one of these incredible higher power sort of moments. It
was that that incident with your sister. You were fooling
around with the gun. And talk about that time, Duke, Well.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
My brother, my older brother, he I loved him to
death and he served many years in the service. And
we had just moved into nice from really from the
deep ghettle to a nicer home. And he said, well,
you know, there's gangs all over around town. He said,
he you take this Peat thirty eight, said it'll blow
(28:42):
somebody's head off if they messed with And he said,
don't use it unless you really have to. I was
so excited about it. And you know, I said, whoa,
this is a bad gun. You know. My sisters and
I we would my mother worked, you know, step bad work.
And so we did the housework and were downstairs in
the basement Washington during the family wash, and I showed
(29:05):
my sister and I said, look look what Oza gave me.
She said, what that's a gun, dude? I said yeah,
he said, you know. He said, you you you're in
another gang related neighborhood. You might need it. And I
kept playing around with it. I said, see, let me
show you how it works. And I thought I was
(29:27):
tooken all the bullets out, but there was one in
the chamber that I didn't know about. So I said
here and I pointed at her and it didn't go off.
She says, don't point that gun at me. You know
better than that. I said, ain't nothing in it, and
I was. And as I was talking to her, I
pointed it to the roof and pulled the truck and bam,
(29:47):
that bullet came out that time. Now you know, I
stay there and I said there. I almost cried. I said,
shy and then was shouting. I said, you know what
I I was about to kill you and didn't know it.
And I've really thought about that for years and years,
and I think I thank the Lord that something happened.
(30:12):
That bullet because I did not know was there, did
not come out when I clicked it at her, you know,
And that was frightening. That was frightened. And I guess what,
I never I never carried a gun or used the
gun after that, never any kind of gun. We have
tours down South on the bus, you know, the guys
(30:33):
would bring their guns. You know. That's when the South
was crazy. We didn't know what would be what you
could be confronted with. But I never after that carried
a gun, never ever, and I won't.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
So let's talk about bringing all of this to the stage.
Where are you in that process? And uh, and just
tell me how excited you are about it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I'm so excited about it because as a producer, I
will be reliving some of those beautiful moments, a lot
of them. I'll be reliving them, and it'll be so
authentic because I'm gonna make it exactly how I felt
and how things went. So the singer's gonna have to
(31:18):
be great singers. They're gonna have to be great actors,
and they're gonna have to. They're gonna have to, you know,
in theater, and they have to be very good dancers
as well. I see, we were auditioning one guy saying
he had the greatest voice, but he was six ft
seven and we didn't we didn't need a guy, that's all,
(31:38):
to play a lead singer, that's all. And I had
to let him go. So he's gonna be so much
fun reliving those moments, building those building the blocks that
will lead to some of the great moments that you
felt that that really make you feel good. Here's one
moment I will talk to you about. Mary and I
(31:59):
was going together. In fact, I had moved in with
her my wife and I decided that she's definitely going
to get a divorce, she says, And so I said, okay,
boom boom. So I felt comfortable and moving in with Mary,
so farth and so on. But I think my wife
must have when she heard that I was going with
(32:20):
beautiful young lady, she might have sorted something. And that's
when we started really making money. And when I was
with my first wife, we weren't doing that well. So
she sent the daughter over to the house, or she
drove her daughter to a house. She was about seven eight,
and she left her on the porch. She said, just
(32:40):
your daddy's in there. Just go and talk with him.
He'll take care of you. It's going to be that way.
And when she comes to the door, I said, that's
my daughter. I said, come on in, Ky, I said,
what are you doing here? She said, well, mom, she
shot me. Just told me to see that you take
care of me. I said, yeah, come on in. I said,
(33:01):
oh my God, said what am I going to do?
So I brought it into the kitchen where Mary was.
Mary was preparing some stuff we had in the living
room and in the guest room. We had half a
motown still the Smokey was there, and the Vandellas were there,
and the two Holland brothers were there, and Dozia, so
(33:24):
you know, the big Donald. I can't remember if Marvin
was there a lot. First of all, they were all
excited about Mary and I because we had decided we
were going to get married. So whenever we did something,
they always come come around. So it was like a
big party that were starting. And so anyway, she was.
(33:44):
Ky was in there talking with Mary and Mary's talking
with her, and I'm trying to check out, what the
hell can how can I work this out? And then
it really hit me. Anyway, he used to work us out, buddy,
to take your lass back home. So after a while,
(34:05):
set how can I tell Mary? So anyway, I said,
I lit kai and then lel kind of hang out.
I said, she shore around the house and this and that.
He said, yeah, okay, I said, Mary and I need
to talk. He said, yes, y'a, I'll do. So Mary
and I started talking how can we work? Because she
(34:27):
was getting really upset, too nervous, and I was upset
because I didn't know what to do. I said, Mary,
I said, this is this is happening. This is really happening,
and I don't really know what to do. And I said, man, basically,
she really wants me to come home, she said, But
Duke Mary would say, well, but you promise, and we
(34:50):
made the plans and all of that. I said, this
is different now, Mary, And it took me a while.
But Mary being such a sweetheart, she had a big heart,
she had a great mind, and she was a beautiful,
sweet person, and she knew what I was up against.
She said, well, she said, we have some beautiful plans.
She said, Duke, I knew what you have to do.
(35:13):
I said, you're so you do what you have to do.
She said, I understand it. This was after about an
hour of talking and talking about the situation that she
conceded that, yeah, you need to go home. You got
her family back then, and evidently they want you now.
I said, well, at least my daughter, does I know her?
(35:34):
I said sure, I said, Mary, I'm gonna have to go.
I said, well, please don't hate me for this. I
always want to be your friend and no telling her
what can happen in the future. She says, Duke, one thing,
I love you, and oh you ever forget you, and
I will always have my arms open to you withever
(35:55):
you wreke your decision. Well that kind of released me
enough to say, well, I'm gonna take my daughter home.
I don't know how my ex wife she is gonna
tat treat us or treat me. I said, but I
got it. I also got a little song back there.
I said, just this is telling me I've got to
(36:15):
go home. I've got to be two to my family.
So I went home, and you know, of course I
knocked on the door while she had changed her ways
from being she didn't care what I did, and she
was happy to see me and all of that, and
happened to see me with Guy, and so I took
(36:37):
Kai into like the living room, and this song was
written for this particular scene. It's called I'll Never Ever
Leave You Again. And I put her on my knee
and started singing this song. And this song was really
it was an instrumental by Earl klu on the guitar.
(37:00):
Lawrence just picked that song and wrote some words that
were just perfectly for this particular scene. So I put
it on my knee and start singing this song, I'll
Never ever Leave You Again. It's gonna be a hot,
a very heart shalt moment on for stage, you know.
So I'm just giving you idea of how how real
(37:25):
it will be. That was a heart shelt moment. But
there's so many happy moments. There's so many moments of
all kind of feelings that will be in this music.
And I'm gonna try to make it as as authentic
as possible. You know, when you put you when you
put the right words with the scene and the right
music with the scene, you get the feeling that was
(37:47):
there that actually happened. So and that song was just
perfect for that, for that. I mean, you know I
was written. You know, it had nothing to do with
my daughter or me when he wrote the song. I
just when we started doing musical I started putting these
moments together with different songs.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
That's awesome, that's so tremendous. I want to close with this, Duke. So,
I remember reading in the book the moment that you know,
with Levi's passing, and you know how alone that you
felt and how sad. I think music plays this really
important role in lives. You talked about it. We have
(38:31):
this other podcast that we produce that's called Music Save Me.
It's about the healing power of music and how music
provides a saving grace, almost therapeutic. And obviously you know
the importance of what faith means with music, but talk about,
if you will, how important music is to you, whether
(38:54):
it be the uplifting moments or the moments like you
know when if I passed, when you felt so alone.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right, well, you know that it happened when every one
of them passed one by one. Lawrence was the first
one to pass and we was at this house, holding
his hand. He was pretty close to design. I said, Lawrence,
I said, look and I prayed. I said, Lord, me
(39:25):
changed his spot. You know, I just don't want we
don't want him to go. It's not time for him.
Be still to y'all. And we did that with each
other as each one passed, and after Lawrence passed, Well,
you know if every now and then when I sang
certain songs, when we sang certain songs, that will remind
(39:47):
me of him. And that's why it was just great
to have his son able to sing right away. We
didn't put him in there right away, Levi. There was
too something for Levi. I said, you know, do I
know we can sing? Well? I can't. So we didn't
(40:09):
put anybody in that spot. We did three or we did.
One of our musicians sang the fourth note, you know,
while he played the piano. But we couldn't for a year.
It was just three of us when Lawrence first passed.
That's the way, that's the way it went. We just
could not, you know, we just could not have anybody
(40:30):
in that spot. And we all felt that. Uh, That's
what I loved about him, because it was truly we
were truly truly loving each other with respect and all
kinds of things. So when the first one, Lawrence left,
it left us with a big hole. We didn't ever
(40:52):
we never expected that, you know, you seemed like that
our age that we would be around forever. And we
knew that we were challenged enough to do that. Not cocky,
but we were confident that we could be around as
long as the Mills brothers or and or something like that.
(41:13):
So but that was a that was a devastating moment
and time when the first one passed, and then when
uh oh, he got sick a few years later and
he passed, it was just now for real, I thought, well,
this might be it. I don't know, I don't know
(41:34):
if I can continue with this man. You know, two
of my buddies had gone, uh and and Leve. I
was trying to get really sick. But he stayed there
as long as he could. But he stopped. And when
he stopped, my heart just shattered. I mean, you know,
(41:55):
I see, he said, we'll get somebody to you. Got
it good here, get somebody that can. I said, leave.
I can't nobody replace you, or your voice or your heart,
I said, but I'm keep the group together, Duke, she said,
the name has a good future. Yeah he was. He
(42:16):
was on his deathbed. Then till talk to me like that,
and I'll just crying anyway.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Thank you, Duke, for taking the time to talk about
the book I'll Be There My Life with the four Tops.
You can get it on Amazon. It's a great read.
Thank you for sharing your insights, your experience, and your
journey as it continues to inspire us all and to
get us through and put a smile on our face.
(42:47):
The music lives on, that's for sure, but I could
tell you I had a smile through this entire interview
just talking to you.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Tickled. I'm honored.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
I'm so grateful for all the lessons that you teach
as well well.
Speaker 6 (43:01):
Thank you for having me, believe it or not, there's
always a joy to me to remember those moments, you know,
and we've had so many of them, so I can
get lost in conversations when we start talking about.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
You could say the greatest love I've ever had. Uh,
you know, it's easy to talk about them, you know now,
And I can remember some of those moments more than
I can remember what I did yesterday. You know. It's
just weird. How the moments of heart and love and
understanding they stay there, then they're never going away anyway.
(43:43):
Thanks for having me. It's a joy, and I hope
that people enjoyed talk to me, me talking to them.
I just want them to know how much they've given us.
They've given me a full life of love, happiness, joy
and everything else under this on and I love each
(44:04):
and everyone.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Thank you you're the best.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
And Tim Sabi and my good friend and yours told
me to say hi to you as well. But thank
you Duke so much for being on the podcast, and
take care of yourself.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. If you like this and other episodes, please
share it with a friend. You can find Taking a
Walk on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
The first big engagement he got us was in Denver, Colorado,
which he'll exist the Wolhurst Country Club and we start
singing and this big talk just got the screaming. I mean,
you got a pitch and all that. The propriety came
up to us and say get out of here, get
off my stage.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
On this episode of Taking a Walk, Joined Buzz night
as he talks with a living legend, Duke Fakir is
the last surviving member of the Four Tops. He and
Kathleen McGee Anderson wrote the book I'll Be There, My
Life with the Four Tops. Joined Buzz next with Duke Fakir.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
So let's go to the Taking a Walk virtual hotline.
I want to ask, am I speaking with the living legend,
heavenly voice, amazing soul named Duke Fakir.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Well, this is Duke Faki now almost because you given
and all of that, you know that may be part
of me, I'm not sure I'll let you you be
the one that's besides.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
But yes, this is due procure and I'm very happy
to be talking to you, buddy.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
I'm so grateful to be talking to you, Duke. The
book is tremendous you're the author of I'll Be There,
My Life with the Four Tops.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah you did read it. No, that's good.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh man. The book just radiates.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
It's just radiates of joy, sir, it really does well.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you. I can't wait to get it out as
a musical so people can really understand who the Four
Tops are were and and how it all came about
and how joyful it was for us. It was and
it still is for me, you know, because the best
(01:56):
best part of my day is still on stage.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So the books available at Amazon, and we're going to
talk about bringing it to the stage a little bit
later on.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
But do me a favorite, duke. Take me back.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
You're three years old, right, and you're waiting for your
pops to bring you one of those Coney Island hot
talks that are so notable from the Detroit, Michigan area.
Tell me, can you remember how good that puppy tasted
when he brought it home?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well? Absolutely yes, And I still eat them. That's how
well I remember. I still love those Coney Islands just
and I can. You know, I can remember more about
when I was younger than I can what I did yesterday.
It's just amazing. Sometimes the mine worked, But that's still
(02:49):
those hot dogs strung me out. I mean I still
eat them twoday. I look forward to eat and eat them,
and I'll go out and get him or have somebody
get him for me. But I don't need a lot
of them at a time. I might eat one and
then skip a day and then I need another one.
But I still love, absolutely loving.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
As I said, Duke, the book radiates of love and
of gratitude. Those are some lessons that really shaped you,
especially in your early days, from your your folks.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Correct, correct, I'm thankfully. I've always been surrounded by a
lot of love and it has really helped me. I
mean it was that that has always been me. Whenever
I'm in a situation or around people where there's not
love radiating them, I'm very uncomfortable. My family was a
(03:51):
very lovable family. Then we went to the Forks Tops family,
which was all about love, respect and honor, and and
I see it in the people's eyes day in and
day out, every every every show, because I look at
people very intensely, and I like to you know, reaction,
(04:13):
and I can see a lot of love and a
lot of respect, and it's always to me, everything seems
to me to be about a family of love. Even
my team that we're working on the musical, that the
young lady that helped me write the book, because it's
all it's all about love, and I am. I don't
(04:34):
mind saying it, you know, because you know, love comes.
Love comes in so many different poems, you know, and
I've experienced pretty much all the forms that there are.
If love is the common denominator, oh, then it's such
a joy. I just like that. I was like I
was born with it, you know. I think I'm born
(04:57):
on the sense, you know, between the Maslem and Christian
and both of those are really about peace and love.
And I think I've really got a good part of
both of those because I feel that I'm very uncomfortable
when I'm around things that does not radiate love. I'm
just like that, and I understand it, and I'll just
(05:20):
hurry up. I'll turn my back and walk away quickly.
You know. I don't have a run from anything, but
I know how to get out. You know how to
get out from growing up in Detroit. You have to
learn how to escape this different situations. So I know
how to. But most of the time in my especially
(05:42):
since I've been grown up, I've experienced a lot, a lot,
a lot of love. And my wife and I we
are on forty ninth year as soon as it hits
next year, which is twenty four. Just like we was
singing with the Top, for any one of us passed away,
we did like forty forty years together at least, you know,
(06:06):
and I still kept it going even as the guys
you know, went home. I just kept it going because
it was a gift to us to do. And I'm
just very pro proud that I was a member or
I am a member of the Four Tops, Which is
the thing about love. They gave a lot of love.
(06:27):
In fact, when we first got together, it changed, I
can tell right away it changed their perspective of people.
Then they said, you know, they started looking at loving
people and the joint. You know, it was just it
was so much love, so much understanding, and there was
so much talent there. You know, when you're young and
(06:50):
have talent, you know, you can really show it in
different ways. And we were very fortunate in having a
young man his head. He knew every note in every
chord and he just would pass it on to us.
You know, it's amazing how he could hear he could
(07:13):
we could have be rehearsing with a ten piece band
and if one of them hit a room and say, hey,
hey you that first also and that was a B
flat not a bee you know, and stuff like that. Uh,
that's amazing. That's a hell of a gift, you know,
especially in entertainment. Uh. And it has passed on to
(07:36):
his son who sings with us now. So it's it's amazing.
It's been amazing there because it's stilled with all kinds
of wonderful, wonderful stories and side sidebars and and things,
but it's all grafted from love. And I look at
the world today and I said, how where what happened
(07:59):
to the to the love? To me? There was so
much more love when I was a kid. I mean
in the world, not just in my family. But you know,
even though there was segregation, there was still it. Just
well we we knew it existed, and you're just try
not to do things to bring it and put the
(08:20):
balloon in your face. When music is in the air,
the people don't think about color, nationality and all that.
Music is his own world and it sucks people in,
especially if it's done really well, and it sounds good
and feels good. People didn't think about anything but what
(08:43):
that feeling is. And I've experienced watching I've watched people
who who I thought would be racially compelled to do
or be another way, but music would just st will
soothe the heart and you know, and just bring them
into the fold. I remember on our first Motown tour, well,
(09:06):
you know it was it was segregated. We were played
and segregated audiences. Uh, you know, the blacks would have
to sit up in the balcony and all the whites
would be on the first floor. So after about two
or three gigs, Barry Gordy's sister who ran Esther Gordy,
who who ran those tours and then created those tours
(09:29):
for all the tops and the temps and every and
everyone that was there, she said, look, we can't keep
doing this, she says. So she just broke up the
tour and she said, let's go home. Said this is
not good, you know, And we went home. And after
some conversation I guess with promoters and different people, they
(09:51):
made they created another tour and it was it was
just a loving tour. I mean, we for the first
time you really saw people don't be dancing together of
different colors. The music just they would get out their
seat and just go to dancing. And it was just amazing, wonderful,
wonderful sight to see, you know, it was standing. We
(10:13):
would stand backstage, all of us, every artist, and kind
of keep an eye on what's going on, you know,
just from being used to doing that, from watching out
because we didn't know, you know, what was going on
sometimes with the audiences. But after that, it was just
a joy to see how people just they loved, they
(10:34):
loved the music. They didn't think about it, you know,
they didn't care. You know, of course there's always want
ed to somewhere that have their own well thank you,
but we I'm talking about it. People were full of love, understanding, happiness,
joy and all that kind of stuff, and you could
feel it and it would just make you. It would
make you sing more from your heart than just singing
(10:58):
words and notes. You know, you would be singing a
feeling and you try to project it and give it,
give it out to them because they've given you a
great feeling with all their their collaps, they're dancing, singing
with you, and it's just it's just a joy, and
this deal is the best part of my day. You know.
(11:21):
Even even now, I'm totally enjoyed. I can't wait to
get to work because it's not work, it's joyful. It's
just being in a in an arena of joy.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Oh, Duke, I love that comment. An arena of joy.
That's a beautiful way to put it. Now, there's a
number of characters, Duke in the book who they kind
of shape the storyline. There's one I want to ask
you about that was really important. Maybe I'll ask you
about a couple. Uh Joe Anne Artist. First of all,
talk about what she meant to you early on in
(11:56):
your life.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Giant giant art. This was a schoolmate, but she belonged.
She was like to hit of this club of black girls.
She haras odd and she she and the girls, they
were crazy about it about us, you know. And when
(12:17):
she gave this party, we we that's how we got together.
But she she liked us individually anyway. She was just
that kind of girl. And we were, you know, we
act classy, we weren't, but when we act when at
that age because we liked being around them. They were beautiful,
they were understanding, they were smart, Uh, and so when
(12:40):
she gave this party, and that's how we really got together.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Me and Levi had been together for a while, uh
thinking about singing and and and how we could get
a group and what. And then we decided to get
mister Benson because she had a nice bartone own voice
and he could almost sing jinn know, he had a
very good range. Then he's a smiling guy. He's very
(13:07):
good with the girls. And Lawrence Peyton, now we knew
his family was totally about music. I would walk by
down the street where he lived. We all lived in
the same neighborhood, and they would be sitting on the porch,
all parts of their family singing, singing all kinds of singing, lullabout,
(13:27):
singing church songs, singing gospel singing, love songs. And to
find out that Lawrence Peyton is his family is a
descendant from the Ellington, from Duke Ellington. So their music
somehow another just runs through that family in their heads.
They can they know music without having to study anything,
(13:52):
and they just hear it and it's just amazing.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Okay, Duke, now tell me about this gentleman. I think
he was I'm not mistaken. He was known as the
ex con singer named Welton Barnett.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, Welton Barnette he was I think you mis understood
that Welton Barnett was not the singer. He was a
guy that kind of he was like a manager, you know.
But he would set and he would ask us to sing.
We would get gigs now he could get. He would
get gigs for us and we would go to Toledo
(14:31):
where he lives, and he would have us singing at
one of these clubs. And then he's the one that
got us an engagement in Denver and that was this
was before the Four Tops. This was basically just Levi
and I and we would get whatever he would put together. Uh,
(14:51):
and it was it was a chore really because Levi
was the great lead singer. But Wilson Evarnett, he liked
this tall couldn't to me, couldn't sing a fucking note,
but but he sang. But he sings so loud and
so high. And then Levi I was just you know,
(15:11):
and try to get with it. The first big engagement
he got us was in Denver, Colorado, which still exists,
the Wolhurst Country Club. And we start singing and this
big tall guy just got the screaming, I mean, out
of pitch and all that. The propriety came up to
(15:33):
us and say, get the funk out of here, get
off my stage. If you heard this guy singing, you know,
you know he had in fact, he was an ex con.
He had he had no business, you know, being in
show business at all. He looked like a convict too.
He was one in his head. He still was and
(15:53):
his voice was.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Still you know the look. I could actually visualize it
from the book. I could see the look between you
and Levi Stubbs actually kind of looking at each other,
almost rolling your eyes when that guy was singing.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yep, it was just yeah. If you could tell then
that there was something going on, people would watch up
and me, leave me and leave I would be eyeing
each other almost. We were almost crack it up because
you know, it's pretty hard, you know, just keep calm
and be smiling and be pleasant for the artist. One
(16:32):
of your lead singer is sounding like shit keeps you know,
that's just but anyway, uh, we lived through it. And
right after that, after that guy put through us out
of his place in Denver, Levi we and I we
took a bus and get home. And it was very
soon after that that we went to because of LEVI
(16:54):
and I were in school together. Also very soon after
that that when Joan and ih just this lovely young
girl gave that party. Now I saw her the rest
of my life up until about four or four years ago,
because he worked at Triple A and I always kept
(17:16):
Triple A and Shure because I always got a chance
to see her and talk to her a little bit
every now and then. So, you know, life is life
has been approval for me. You know, there's been ups
and downs, but it's the ups has been so far
up that you I can't even think about the downs.
(17:36):
If I do, it's in a joking music way. You
know how we got through it and all of that.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Now, Duke, there's some venues that you talk about in
the book. I'll mention a couple. Get your reaction. One
I'll mention is the Ebony Lounge in Cleveland, and the
other it's called Eddie's Lounge in Slint. Mission again, paint
a picture of what these places were like.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Okay, back in the fifties, there were quite a few
of these type of clubs. There are clubs that maybe
sit sit from six hundred down to two hundred, you know,
and they always had a little combo plan and they
would have artists that were just if they would book
(18:26):
for one night or two nights or for a weekend.
And they were in almost every city. Uh And there
were mostly you know, black oone clubs and black run clubs,
and it was pretty much, you know, it was pretty
much just a good hangout and for them just to
have a little extra entertainment on the weekend, which a
(18:51):
lot of a lot of groups and artists were coming
up at that time. And there was always in every
city there were both kind of clubs partially to paint
that picture if you got there, but it's just it's
just wonderful clubs. People just hanging out for the weekends
and on the you know, on the weekends usually or
(19:12):
sometimes for a whole week according to how the club was,
uh managed. Well, we like to hang out. What I
mean by we, I'm talking about all my all the
black people I know I've always enjoyed. They work hard
during the week and on the weekends they want to
get out and hang out with people and have fun
and listen to music, to sing and dance and I
(19:36):
believe everybody in Detroit the saying I always believe that.
Somebody said, how many groups come out of Detroit. I say,
I don't know, I said, but there could be as
many groups as they want. But to me, everybody destroyed
say they always have been around music, whether it's in
whether it's in church, or whether it's somewhere, They've always
been around music. And they just expect you to be
(19:58):
able to sing. And they can sing this up, and
they know singing. They know when you're not hitting them notes.
And they also know when you're hitting notes and making
great harmony, and when you sing it from your heart
or when you're singing this is my home. I love Detroit.
I love how it's come through its changes. I just
can't wait till her till the day because it's getting
(20:21):
it the end of my career, and I'm starting to
think what you're going to do when you retire. Now.
A month or two ago, I was thinking about it.
I looked at my age and I said, Duke, you've
been doing this for them. It's seventy years now. It
just seemed that you should not have to want to
do it anymore. I said, well, okay, I think I'll
(20:43):
start I'm talking to myself. So I talked to my
wife and I was talking about when I possible and retire,
and it was just that we're talking about a few
months ahead. And then that's just a couple of years ago.
That's when the pandemic hit. We stayed at home for
so long. I said, you know what, this is retirement
(21:03):
and this ain't shit. I just wait until I can't
do it no more. So here I am now not
thinking about retirement. I'm thinking about moving forward. I still
can dance a little. I've lost quite a few steps
because of my hips, operations and things like that. So
(21:28):
this is what I do. You know, and guess what
I was made for this.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
You know, one of your mentors in the book that
you talk about is the great Billy Eckstein, and he said,
and I'll quote, you've got to love the audience. And
I think at its core that's why you're going to
keep doing this, because you just love your audience.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
That is absolutely true? It really is. I mean the
feeling I get, I'm anxious every show before it's time
to go on, I'm anxious to get out there and
perform and I'd like to scan the audience and and
try to read their expressions. And it's always great expressions,
you know. It's very seldom can I look out there
(22:17):
and find a person with a frown on their face.
It's just and it's just wonderful, you know. It's just
you know, to feel love and respect every night that
you perform. That is that is a way of life itself.
Living in that atmosphere work And you know, I hate
to call this work because it's not work. To me,
(22:39):
work is getting on the getting on my bus and
traveling to engage that that to me is work. But
once we h that's their venue, it's just all play.
For me, it's like a basketball player getting in the gym,
you know, get once I get the stage. That's that's
why I feel it home and the most. And I
(23:02):
just I love watching people get the feeling. You know,
it's just amazing, you know that you can you can
see how much they enjoy it, and it's just it
just gets me. And I think it still gets even
the news outs, you know, uh, I think we they've
learned that this is what it's about. It's about the
(23:26):
people having as much fun as you or more. Yeah,
And it's about transferring something to them so that they
get it. It ain't it ain't just about singing notes.
It ain't just about you know, dressing well. It's about
giving out a spirit of love in your music that
(23:47):
they can feel and and they respond when you do that.
You know. We know when somebody is aching and then
don't give their best, you know, and it and it
hurts the whole group to me, and we have long
talked about it, said, look, man, you cannot carry anything
that's happened to you in the day, on the night
(24:07):
of what happened at home. You can't carry that on stage.
The stage is for you to wipe it out and
to feel what the audience have for you. They're waiting
to give you that love and you can tell and
when you do it right, you get it right away.
And then it's just a wonderful love affairs and it's
(24:30):
and it's amazing. It's amazing for me when I think
about it. To go through life. My job is going
to places where there's love, always love, respect.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Sama Duke.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
There's been some moments of incredible faithful moments, I would say,
and faithful.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Moments that come up in the book.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
There's one in particular I want to ask you about,
and that is the locker Bee moment. It's kind of
a moment of faith, and say, can you talk about
that experience, just how you knew before then that there
was like a higher power that was kind of working
in your life, and you certainly knew there was a
higher power after that.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh. Absolutely. We were in London, England, and we had
two different shows to two different sets to do on
two different days. For this particularly show, which was their
big rock show, I'll think of the name in a minute,
(25:34):
the producer wanted us to do like it was scheduled.
You do two songs today and tomorrow you can do
two songs on our next set. So now this is
close to very close to Christmas, very close, you know.
We said, look, man, it'd be nice if we could
just check one day, even if you wanted to change clothes, Gale,
(25:59):
come on for minutes and come back and do a
couple of mores. You know. He said no, He said no,
it's set up that you have to do the second night.
I said no, And we tried every kind of conversation
to him and and he just would not change and
I am so we would after after we realized what
(26:20):
really happened. We were so bad. I'm telling you, we
all we all wanted to go kiss that guy, honestly,
hug him or something that produced it. I said, had
he had he listened to us, we wouldn't be here.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
So Duke, cause I'm hearing the story correctly. You and
the rest of the band members. You were supposed to
be on that plane that went down.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
We were listen. We were trying to get on that plane.
We tried everything possible. That you're really good. It shows
that we tried everything possible. You know. We we had
my road managers book us. We thought we could talk
to this guy into letting us do everything we had
to do in one day, even if we had to
(27:04):
change clothes, you know, with Jessic ching songs or whatever
he wanted done. But they wouldn't listen. He said, no,
it has to go just like it is. And he,
to me, was the one that kept us getting on
their flight. And when I got home, I mean, people
were waiting at the airport, but I was so I'm
(27:25):
still thinking of what could have happened. And I didn't
really speak to the people, but I was so glad
to see my wife. I did see me and told
on let's go home. I just want to get home.
I mean, because that frightened me for quite a while.
And the rest of us said, we we tried with
all our hearts to walk into a death plan. I mean,
(27:49):
that is amazing that we were saved by this producer,
because if it wasn't for him sticking to his plan,
we would have been gone. And great director upstairs, he
knows all that and he prepares it, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
And there was this other moment to Duke that was
one of these incredible higher power sort of moments. It
was that that incident with your sister. You were fooling
around with the gun. And talk about that time, Duke, Well.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
My brother, my older brother, he I loved him to
death and he served many years in the service. And
we had just moved into nice from really from the
deep ghettle to a nicer home. And he said, well,
you know, there's gangs all over around town. He said,
he you take this Peat thirty eight, said it'll blow
(28:42):
somebody's head off if they messed with And he said,
don't use it unless you really have to. I was
so excited about it. And you know, I said, whoa,
this is a bad gun. You know. My sisters and
I we would my mother worked, you know, step bad work.
And so we did the housework and were downstairs in
the basement Washington during the family wash, and I showed
(29:05):
my sister and I said, look look what Oza gave me.
She said, what that's a gun, dude? I said yeah,
he said, you know. He said, you you you're in
another gang related neighborhood. You might need it. And I
kept playing around with it. I said, see, let me
show you how it works. And I thought I was
(29:27):
tooken all the bullets out, but there was one in
the chamber that I didn't know about. So I said
here and I pointed at her and it didn't go off.
She says, don't point that gun at me. You know
better than that. I said, ain't nothing in it, and
I was. And as I was talking to her, I
pointed it to the roof and pulled the truck and bam,
(29:47):
that bullet came out that time. Now you know, I
stay there and I said there. I almost cried. I said,
shy and then was shouting. I said, you know what
I I was about to kill you and didn't know it.
And I've really thought about that for years and years,
and I think I thank the Lord that something happened.
(30:12):
That bullet because I did not know was there, did
not come out when I clicked it at her, you know,
And that was frightening. That was frightened. And I guess what,
I never I never carried a gun or used the
gun after that, never any kind of gun. We have
tours down South on the bus, you know, the guys
(30:33):
would bring their guns. You know. That's when the South
was crazy. We didn't know what would be what you
could be confronted with. But I never after that carried
a gun, never ever, and I won't.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
So let's talk about bringing all of this to the stage.
Where are you in that process? And uh, and just
tell me how excited you are about it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I'm so excited about it because as a producer, I
will be reliving some of those beautiful moments, a lot
of them. I'll be reliving them, and it'll be so
authentic because I'm gonna make it exactly how I felt
and how things went. So the singer's gonna have to
(31:18):
be great singers. They're gonna have to be great actors,
and they're gonna have to. They're gonna have to, you know,
in theater, and they have to be very good dancers
as well. I see, we were auditioning one guy saying
he had the greatest voice, but he was six ft
seven and we didn't we didn't need a guy, that's all,
(31:38):
to play a lead singer, that's all. And I had
to let him go. So he's gonna be so much
fun reliving those moments, building those building the blocks that
will lead to some of the great moments that you
felt that that really make you feel good. Here's one
moment I will talk to you about. Mary and I
(31:59):
was going together. In fact, I had moved in with
her my wife and I decided that she's definitely going
to get a divorce, she says, And so I said, okay,
boom boom. So I felt comfortable and moving in with Mary,
so farth and so on. But I think my wife
must have when she heard that I was going with
(32:20):
beautiful young lady, she might have sorted something. And that's
when we started really making money. And when I was
with my first wife, we weren't doing that well. So
she sent the daughter over to the house, or she
drove her daughter to a house. She was about seven eight,
and she left her on the porch. She said, just
(32:40):
your daddy's in there. Just go and talk with him.
He'll take care of you. It's going to be that way.
And when she comes to the door, I said, that's
my daughter. I said, come on in, Ky, I said,
what are you doing here? She said, well, mom, she
shot me. Just told me to see that you take
care of me. I said, yeah, come on in. I said,
(33:01):
oh my God, said what am I going to do?
So I brought it into the kitchen where Mary was.
Mary was preparing some stuff we had in the living
room and in the guest room. We had half a
motown still the Smokey was there, and the Vandellas were there,
and the two Holland brothers were there, and Dozia, so
(33:24):
you know, the big Donald. I can't remember if Marvin
was there a lot. First of all, they were all
excited about Mary and I because we had decided we
were going to get married. So whenever we did something,
they always come come around. So it was like a
big party that were starting. And so anyway, she was.
(33:44):
Ky was in there talking with Mary and Mary's talking
with her, and I'm trying to check out, what the
hell can how can I work this out? And then
it really hit me. Anyway, he used to work us out, buddy,
to take your lass back home. So after a while,
(34:05):
set how can I tell Mary? So anyway, I said,
I lit kai and then lel kind of hang out.
I said, she shore around the house and this and that.
He said, yeah, okay, I said, Mary and I need
to talk. He said, yes, y'a, I'll do. So Mary
and I started talking how can we work? Because she
(34:27):
was getting really upset, too nervous, and I was upset
because I didn't know what to do. I said, Mary,
I said, this is this is happening. This is really happening,
and I don't really know what to do. And I said, man, basically,
she really wants me to come home, she said, But
Duke Mary would say, well, but you promise, and we
(34:50):
made the plans and all of that. I said, this
is different now, Mary, And it took me a while.
But Mary being such a sweetheart, she had a big heart,
she had a great mind, and she was a beautiful,
sweet person, and she knew what I was up against.
She said, well, she said, we have some beautiful plans.
She said, Duke, I knew what you have to do.
(35:13):
I said, you're so you do what you have to do.
She said, I understand it. This was after about an
hour of talking and talking about the situation that she
conceded that, yeah, you need to go home. You got
her family back then, and evidently they want you now.
I said, well, at least my daughter, does I know her?
(35:34):
I said sure, I said, Mary, I'm gonna have to go.
I said, well, please don't hate me for this. I
always want to be your friend and no telling her
what can happen in the future. She says, Duke, one thing,
I love you, and oh you ever forget you, and
I will always have my arms open to you withever
(35:55):
you wreke your decision. Well that kind of released me
enough to say, well, I'm gonna take my daughter home.
I don't know how my ex wife she is gonna
tat treat us or treat me. I said, but I
got it. I also got a little song back there.
I said, just this is telling me I've got to
(36:15):
go home. I've got to be two to my family.
So I went home, and you know, of course I
knocked on the door while she had changed her ways
from being she didn't care what I did, and she
was happy to see me and all of that, and
happened to see me with Guy, and so I took
(36:37):
Kai into like the living room, and this song was
written for this particular scene. It's called I'll Never Ever
Leave You Again. And I put her on my knee
and started singing this song. And this song was really
it was an instrumental by Earl klu on the guitar.
(37:00):
Lawrence just picked that song and wrote some words that
were just perfectly for this particular scene. So I put
it on my knee and start singing this song, I'll
Never ever Leave You Again. It's gonna be a hot,
a very heart shalt moment on for stage, you know.
So I'm just giving you idea of how how real
(37:25):
it will be. That was a heart shelt moment. But
there's so many happy moments. There's so many moments of
all kind of feelings that will be in this music.
And I'm gonna try to make it as as authentic
as possible. You know, when you put you when you
put the right words with the scene and the right
music with the scene, you get the feeling that was
(37:47):
there that actually happened. So and that song was just
perfect for that, for that. I mean, you know I
was written. You know, it had nothing to do with
my daughter or me when he wrote the song. I
just when we started doing musical I started putting these
moments together with different songs.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
That's awesome, that's so tremendous. I want to close with this, Duke. So,
I remember reading in the book the moment that you know,
with Levi's passing, and you know how alone that you
felt and how sad. I think music plays this really
important role in lives. You talked about it. We have
(38:31):
this other podcast that we produce that's called Music Save Me.
It's about the healing power of music and how music
provides a saving grace, almost therapeutic. And obviously you know
the importance of what faith means with music, but talk about,
if you will, how important music is to you, whether
(38:54):
it be the uplifting moments or the moments like you
know when if I passed, when you felt so alone.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Right, well, you know that it happened when every one
of them passed one by one. Lawrence was the first
one to pass and we was at this house, holding
his hand. He was pretty close to design. I said, Lawrence,
I said, look and I prayed. I said, Lord, me
(39:25):
changed his spot. You know, I just don't want we
don't want him to go. It's not time for him.
Be still to y'all. And we did that with each
other as each one passed, and after Lawrence passed, Well,
you know if every now and then when I sang
certain songs, when we sang certain songs, that will remind
(39:47):
me of him. And that's why it was just great
to have his son able to sing right away. We
didn't put him in there right away, Levi. There was
too something for Levi. I said, you know, do I
know we can sing? Well? I can't. So we didn't
(40:09):
put anybody in that spot. We did three or we did.
One of our musicians sang the fourth note, you know,
while he played the piano. But we couldn't for a year.
It was just three of us when Lawrence first passed.
That's the way, that's the way it went. We just
could not, you know, we just could not have anybody
(40:30):
in that spot. And we all felt that. Uh, That's
what I loved about him, because it was truly we
were truly truly loving each other with respect and all
kinds of things. So when the first one, Lawrence left,
it left us with a big hole. We didn't ever
(40:52):
we never expected that, you know, you seemed like that
our age that we would be around forever. And we
knew that we were challenged enough to do that. Not cocky,
but we were confident that we could be around as
long as the Mills brothers or and or something like that.
(41:13):
So but that was a that was a devastating moment
and time when the first one passed, and then when
uh oh, he got sick a few years later and
he passed, it was just now for real, I thought, well,
this might be it. I don't know, I don't know
(41:34):
if I can continue with this man. You know, two
of my buddies had gone, uh and and Leve. I
was trying to get really sick. But he stayed there
as long as he could. But he stopped. And when
he stopped, my heart just shattered. I mean, you know,
(41:55):
I see, he said, we'll get somebody to you. Got
it good here, get somebody that can. I said, leave.
I can't nobody replace you, or your voice or your heart,
I said, but I'm keep the group together, Duke, she said,
the name has a good future. Yeah he was. He
(42:16):
was on his deathbed. Then till talk to me like that,
and I'll just crying anyway.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
Thank you, Duke, for taking the time to talk about
the book I'll Be There My Life with the four Tops.
You can get it on Amazon. It's a great read.
Thank you for sharing your insights, your experience, and your
journey as it continues to inspire us all and to
get us through and put a smile on our face.
(42:47):
The music lives on, that's for sure, but I could
tell you I had a smile through this entire interview
just talking to you.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Tickled. I'm honored.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
I'm so grateful for all the lessons that you teach
as well well.
Speaker 6 (43:01):
Thank you for having me, believe it or not, there's
always a joy to me to remember those moments, you know,
and we've had so many of them, so I can
get lost in conversations when we start talking about.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
You could say the greatest love I've ever had. Uh,
you know, it's easy to talk about them, you know now,
And I can remember some of those moments more than
I can remember what I did yesterday. You know. It's
just weird. How the moments of heart and love and
understanding they stay there, then they're never going away anyway.
(43:43):
Thanks for having me. It's a joy, and I hope
that people enjoyed talk to me, me talking to them.
I just want them to know how much they've given us.
They've given me a full life of love, happiness, joy
and everything else under this on and I love each
(44:04):
and everyone.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Thank you you're the best.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
And Tim Sabi and my good friend and yours told
me to say hi to you as well. But thank
you Duke so much for being on the podcast, and
take care of yourself.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. If you like this and other episodes, please
share it with a friend. You can find Taking a
Walk on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
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