November 6, 2025 • 28 mins
Takin’ a Walk Nashville with Jennie Smythe: Girlilla Marketing Secrets from Music City with host Sarah Harralson.
Join us with Jennie Smythe, founder of Girlilla Marketing, for an unforgettable conversation about creative marketing, entrepreneurship, and building a brand in Music City. Jennie shares insider strategies on guerrilla marketing tactics that help businesses stand out without breaking the bank.
In this episode, discover how Jennie built her marketing agency from the ground up, her unique approach to helping brands cut through the noise, and why Nashville’s creative energy makes it the perfect backdrop for innovative marketing strategies. Whether you’re a small business owner, marketing professional, or entrepreneur looking for fresh ideas, Jennie’s insights on grassroots campaigns, social media authenticity, and community-driven branding will inspire your next big move.
Tune in for real talk about the challenges of entrepreneurship, the power of creative thinking, and how to market like a Girlilla in today’s competitive landscape. Perfect for marketers, business owners, Nashville enthusiasts, and anyone ready to take their brand to the next level.
Takin A Walk Nashville is part of the IHeart Podcast Network and is produced by Buzz Knight Media Productions, celebrating the fine art of storytelling.
Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M taking a Walk Nashville at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Like that simplicity of making sure that you do a
good job, that you don't mess it up, and that
you turn around and help somebody behind you.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Pretty powerful stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hi, this is Sarah Harrelson, your host of Taking a
Walk in Nashville Today. I am taking you to the
eighth Avenue South neighborhood in Nashville. Joining me today at
her office is Jenny Smyth, the founder and CEO of
award winning Girl LM Marketing, which heads digital strategy for
(00:37):
a diverse roster of world famous entertainers and brands, including
Debt and Company, Willie Nelson, Darius Rucker, Blondie Brookshields, and
Vince Gill just to name a fuel. Her early career
includes time at Disney's, Hollywood Records, Yahoo Music, Warner Brothers,
(00:57):
and Clear Channel. And today we are sitting down to
talk about her new memoir that is out now called
Becoming Girl.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Gorilla Buzzsnight and this is Taking a Walk Nashville with
singer songwriter Sarah Harrelsick.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Hi, Jenny, thank you so much for being on the
Taken a Walk Nashville show today and.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You're having me. I'm happy to be here of course. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
So we are here at Gorilla Marketing today in Nashville,
and I just read your new memoir, Becoming Gorilla, that.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Was published earlier this year.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
So what inspired you to write about your life experiences
as far?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I want to tell you you're the first person in
a long time that has actually pronounced gorilla right, so
high five. We have many variations, but that was that's
fun and exciting for me. I wrote this book simply
because I felt like I had all this information and
(02:01):
all these stories that I thought people could really resonate
with and hopefully on the work side of life digital
marketing and social media really just take a look at
how they were behaving online and improve because there's so
many good things about it, and that really doesn't make
(02:21):
the news very often. So I wanted to kind of
tell the historical, you know, relevance to my life personally
through my career, but I also really wanted to leave
people with ideas and options of how to better relate
to human beings online.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
And you get very personal in your story in this
book and your life experiences, and I kind of got
chills reading the prologue myself because my father's name is
actually Pete and you have a peat. I have a peat,
and I was a strange for him for ten years
until my mother passed away and then I got reconnect
(03:00):
did with him.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So I just related whoheartedly to your.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Story, and I just think so many other people can
relate and connect to your story. So thank you for
sharing it. I definitely thank you for telling.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Me that because sometimes, like you know, that was the
intention of the book, is that and I said this,
I hope that people see themselves in my story. So
to hear that is actually really powerful for me because
I know that it worked and that was the intention.
And you just by saying that somebody's going to see
(03:36):
this podcast and they're going to say the same thing
to you, and that was the intention. It was just
to say, like, hold on a second, we're all connected.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
How do we move forward? And especially after the.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Last few weeks for us online have been really difficult
for a lot of us, And so even though the
book came out in April, you know, in October, the
fact that I'm still able to talk about the basics
of what I think we do together to move forward
(04:11):
in this type of communication is doing that.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
It's like really connecting with people. And so thank you
for telling me that.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Yeah, thank you. I think connection is so important. I
think young female professionals will relate to this book a lot.
And I want to talk about the start of your
career because you say the music industry is all about
who you know sometimes, and I think that's so true.
And speaking of who you know, as stripper, landed your
(04:40):
first professional opportunity at Elektra Entertainment, and as she told you,
they they're going to think you're a stripper when you arrive.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Was not the case.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I mean, it was like there, it was a wild
time in the nineties. Yeah, but no, I don't think
anyone thought I was a stripper. But I did heed
her advice, which was it boiled down simply.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
She was like, I'm going to help you. Once you
get settled, you help somebody else. And then I won't.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Say what she actually the words that she used on
this podcast, but she basically, in a very blunt way,
told me not to mess it up, that there were
people that needed to be helped behind me, and like
there's not a career counselor that could have given me
better advice, Like it was so out of left field
coming from this person who I.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Don't even really know her real name, Like it was NICKI.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
That's all I know, you know. But if I could
find this person again, I often thought, oh, man, I
hope at one point she sees something and reaches out
and says, I'm Nikki.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That would be so amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
But at the end of the day, like that simplicity
of making sure that you do a good job, that
you don't mess it up, and that you turn around
and help somebody behind you.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Pretty powerful stuff.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, I think that's very important. And during the course
of a career, you worked for a lot of different
corporate companies in the corporate world and music, such as
Warner and Yahoo and clear Channel. But what was the
actual turning point that led you to starting your own
business guerrilla marketing And how did you navigate past the
(06:25):
fear of being an entrepreneur for the first time.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So I was really lucky, Because I say lucky, I
worked really hard and took advantage of opportunities. So we
just called that lucky.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
To have amazing job opportunities at gigantic companies. The problem
with me with those particular companies, is that I never
really fit a particular role or I would fit now,
but then I naturally you want to keep changing and
(07:01):
doing different things. And when somebody offers you a job
for a role, it's pretty well defined, like here's your
job description, here's your salary cap. You know, you might
have a bonus structure or some kind of incentive, but
for the most part, like you know what your lane is.
And so even though I had amazing experience, it wasn't
(07:24):
like a I didn't have like a bad experience that
I was like, I can't do this anymore and I
need to start my own business. It wasn't like that
at all. It was it was basically more about I
don't fit in this world and I'm not utilizing the
skills that I have in the best way possible for me.
(07:47):
And so my only option was really to be an entrepreneur.
My only option was to start the company that I
envisioned that I wanted to work at. And in this
job seventeen eighteen years later, it changes every single day.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I don't have a lane.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I definitely have responsibilities as a CEO as making sure
the health and wealth in my company is you know,
doing well, but I don't know what I'm gonna do
every single day when I walk into this office. So
that is a spirit thing, you know, and you have
to be the right personality for that. But truly it
(08:30):
was a much more natural fit for me than anywhere else.
But you asked me how I got over the fear.
You don't ever get over the fear.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And again seventeen eighteen years later, the same worries that
you had on the first day that you start are
still there. But like, you do it.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Anyways and then it just becomes a muscle reaction. But
I even, you know, people used to say to me
all the time in the beginning, like why would you
do this? It's so risky, you know, how do you know?
Like what are you going to do when you're twenty
years in.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
You know?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And I'm like, man, those are all what ifs that
you could actually apply to any other job, you know,
because companies go under all the time. And I grew again,
I'm a kid in the nineties, so I saw all
these giant corporations fall. I saw all these people with houses,
their mortgages default.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I saw my dad.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Worked for the same company for twenty five years. My
mother worked for the government. That didn't seem like an
option for me.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It just didn't. It just it wasn't for me.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
There's nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't for me,
And so I figured I would bet on myself.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Have to take a leap of faith.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, but like pragmatically speaking, the biggest piece of advice
that I have for anybody is.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
To just not go into debt. You know, because as
soon as you have debt and there's expenses, but expenses
are different than debt. Debt is changes how you make decisions.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
So yeah, I think that's a good point, especially because
you know, it might have been a different story if
just right off the bat, you were going to be saying,
you know, hey, I'm going to start my own company,
instead of the career experience you built up before that,
before those skills right that you learned.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And the same thing when you're starting out, like kids
that are coming out of college and they have accrued
an exorbitant amount of debt, they're making decisions based on
paying that debt off instead of setting up their life.
That's a huge problem for me.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Yeah, I think that's such an important point, And you
bring up a few times in your memoir how you
felt like you needed to accomplish a great amount by
the time you were thirty. And I think, as women especially,
we all put a deadline on ourselves, like we need
to accomplish this and that by the time we're thirty,
(11:07):
when you know.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
This shouldn't be the case at all.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
So what advice do you give to women who feel
like maybe they're stuck in their career at their age
and they can't break the glass ceiling.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Oh so making all of those decisions got me in
jobs I didn't like and a divorce, right, So if
I would have made different decisions, then I wouldn't be
here talking to you about these same things. So like,
it's not I wouldn't say that any of those things
are mistakes per se.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I would just.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Say that, like it was experienced, that maybe didn't have
to be so painful.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But I truly believe that, like those weird.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Rules that we put on ourselves, I do feel like,
generationally speaking, some of those things have dissipated. And so
I see people that I work with that no longer
are feeling those kind of pressures. And you know, there's
biological pressures. Of course, there's biological pressures for women on
(12:13):
when they are gonna decide to potentially have a family
or not, and you know, that's that's something that has
to be addressed. But I think you see more options
and you have more examples now of people that have
worked through pregnancy or you know, adopted or you know,
got just so many different ways to do that. Where really,
(12:38):
when I was coming through it was based on two choices.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know, you were either going to have kids or
you weren't right.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
And how was your digital marketing agency shifted since you
opened it in two thousand and eight with the development
of technology.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Everything, I mean literally we if you just think about
what was happening hapening in two thousand and eight and
two thousand and nine online, it seems like simple times, man.
I mean it was like Facebook was a college thing.
Twitter was like having a moment YouTube. You know, you're
watching Obama inauguration videos, You're watching Susan Boyle like singing
(13:21):
her heart out, Like you're experiencing the Internet for the
first time with a lot of people. And not to
say the Internet wasn't there, because it was there before that,
but everybody having access and really what changed that was
the mobile phone, right, the smartphone, because up until then,
(13:42):
I mean I remember sending in marketing meetings and people saying, hey,
all those people between California and New York, they don't
have Wi Fi and they're like on dial up and
they're never going to adopt these things like music streaming
and downloads.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And I was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like that is crazy to just say we're only going
to care about this coast and this coast and everything
else in the middle the flyover states if you will
like these people, I mean, the implication was that, like
maybe they weren't a smart and I just was like
hardly offended by that, Like I wanted to I wanted
(14:25):
to speak to them, so like how do I do that?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know? And so that was that was that was
the assignment. The assignment was to.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Figure out how to reach people that you were told
maybe didn't want to be reached digitally.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And I just didn't believe that. And I still don't,
you know, when I hear things about you know, certain
research studies and you know, different ways that we measure
through survey, I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I I refuse to believe it because I don't need
a middleman to tell me like what people find interesting
because people can speak for themselves. So that was that
was a huge game changer to be like the person
one of the people at the table who had the perspective.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That didn't go through a gatekeeper.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Nashville podcast. Welcome back to Taking a Walk Nashville.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Would you say AI has helped you with it?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Was it still?
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Is it still just an area you guys were trying
to figure out how you can use it beneficially, look.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Double edged sword, huge issues on copyright, data protection, all
of those things.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
But just like when the Internet came, just when the search.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Engines came, it's an equalizer and it is another tool
in our in our arsenal and as people, you know,
you used to be able to choose like are you
going to watch DV? Are you going to go on
the internet? Are you going to go to the library,
are you going to read a book? All of that
AI is already here. It's already integrated into everything that
(16:22):
you do online. So the idea of you know, sort
of raging against it is futile. What you have to
do is figure out how do you use it to
your advantage. So to answer your question, my our biggest
hurdle are impostors. From a music marketing standpoint, our biggest are,
(16:45):
hands down is impostors and and scams of our fans online.
And the platforms don't really help us out.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So they give us tools to proactively report these things
in which is helpful, but it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It's like a never ending game of whack a mole
and it costs us time. It costs us money and time.
You know, certain things don't get.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Removed because the impostors and the fake accounts get nuanced
to the rules of like what.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Is considered an impostor and what isn't. And it's heartbreaking
to read some of these stories of people that are
catfished and think that they're talking to somebody and they're not.
Some networks are better than others, but for the most part,
that's our biggest hurdle right now.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Yeah, I think your job has been constantly shifting with
the course of technology, and it will continue to. But
do you think it's harder with technology now for everything
you have to sort through or does it make it
easier because you don't have to phone up as many
people stick flyers around them.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I actually think you still need to do that because
I feel like you're leaving real life, you know, a
side by just concentrating solely on digitally. So I would
say this, I would say, the volume is what makes
it sort of unattenable.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
It's the amount of networks.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Is the amount of different types of content that needs
to be created on each network, right like it used
to be this was for video, this was for photo,
This is for pictures of your kids and your dogs,
right like, that was kind of how we looked at things,
and now it's hey, these are the five different types
(18:41):
of media that you need to create for this. This
is the interaction, you know whatever. So I sort of
liken it too, having multiple networks within your reach, and
each network has its own set of channels, and so
how do you approach that? And sometimes it's the same
on you know, across the channel, but oftentimes it's not.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So it's a volume thing.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But I will say this, I love social media the
idea of being without it, even though it is not
without its faults, But I do remember a time without it,
and I am very happy to be connected with people,
(19:26):
to be able to keep in touch with my friends
who don't live here or that do, and that we're
just busy and on different paths, and that I get
to see those birthday photos and I get to see
you know, their accomplishments at their jobs, and just in general,
you know, able to learn about causes that are important
(19:46):
to me that I can donate to. Like these are
all blessings, but for the most part, the ethos in
this building is that you don't own these networks and
you can't depend on them. Like we're as we're sitting
here today, on the date that we're sitting down, there's
a strong possibility by the time this goes live that
(20:09):
will have some indication of what is going to be
happening to a particular network or not, you know, in the.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Next three four months.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So things like that are really good reminders that like
you can use that you can use these networks, but
you can't rely on them.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So as old school and eye rolly as.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
This sounds, it's super important that you have your own properties,
your email list, your website, you know, any any business
that you own that you have the data because at
any given time, one of these networks can go down,
go away, get bought, get sold.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And we've seen this before.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
You know, you asked me about two thousand and nine,
like man MySpace was was it? It's not here anymore,
and we still talk about it like it was a
part of our culture.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It was a part of our ethos.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And so these things can be impactful and they can
also be fleeting.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Yeah, you just never know, right, of course it's going
to take rice exactly. You've dealt with your own battle
of breast cancer, and you know, it seems everywhere you
look now people are dealing with cancer in some form
of another, and many entrepreneurs and full time creatives can't
afford health insurance or they just kind of put it off,
(21:31):
and then when they deal with their own health battle,
you know, they're out of work, they're not able to
go and do their job. And you are on the
board of Music Health Alliance. So how does this organization
break the barrier for people in the music industry struggling
to obtain healthcare.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
They're so far beyond even breaking the barrier. I mean,
there was nobody doing this work.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So Tatum, the founder of Music Health Lifecience, had a
wide breadth of professional experience before she founded this company,
but she started on the music business side, and I
think she saw a need that we weren't taken care of,
as a lot of us are independent contractors, a lot
(22:18):
of us are musicians that after a certain point in life,
it's impossible to be a touring musician or you know
a plethora of reasons why somebody can't live on the
road anymore. And we get so much from this community.
Not only do we get amazing art, but we get friendships,
we get support systems, we get you know, community like
(22:41):
and those aren't buzzwords like, that's literally what we have.
And so to know that somebody who's given their whole
life to the music community has we don't. I mean, yes,
we have unions for certain points of professional careers, but
for the most part, none of us qualify for any
anything like that. So Tatum became the conduit to the
(23:06):
music insurance and medical community and the music community when
nobody else was doing it. And I was lucky enough
to see her start that company. So for me, we
are pretty similar in our personalities. We are pretty similar
in our love of the community and also tenacity to
(23:30):
make something happen. And we started at our company's you
know right around the same time. She's a little younger
on that front. But she not only has helped me,
but I mean thousands of pounds, thousands of people, and
it is everything that you could potentially imagine. It is
(23:52):
organ transplants, it is preventative dental care, it is you know,
having a dedicated resource for medicare. It is the place
where a lot of us, when something acute happens, we call.
Like she has become the person that we all call
(24:14):
providing services to small businesses like mine, of finding insurance
that everyone here is covered.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
There isn't.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I don't have an asset in my business, like I
don't have master recordings, I don't have any of that.
My business assets are my people. And so for me
as an entrepreneur being able to make decisions of where
my resources are going to go. I hate how expensive
(24:42):
the insurance company is. The insurance company businesses because it's
a business. They're not out here being nonprofits for us.
In fact, they're profiting very well, some would say criminally profitable.
But my biggest expense minus our mortgage, is paying our
health insurance premiums. And at one point in my career
(25:06):
when I showed up on Tatum's doorstep. My business wasn't
going to make it because of health insurance costs. And
when I think about that and how many people entrepreneurs,
small businesses, and especially women owned business because there was
a time when our insurance was much more expensive than
mail insurance, which is a whole nother podcast. We had
(25:31):
to find a reason to keep going, and Tatum was
that reason to help me find something.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That I could.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Know that I was doing the right thing for my team,
but also know that I wasn't going to default on
any of my thoughts.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I love that and I just love to bring awareness
to that organization. So I hope if anyone that's in
the music full time listening to this episode at or
checkout Music Health Alliance.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That makes me help. That was very joyful.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Yes, So since we were on taking a walk Nashville,
I know when you were on taking a walk with Buzz,
he asked you who would you take a walk with,
But in this podcast, I like to ask where in
Nashville is.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Your favorite place to take a walk. So I think
every after I watched I had watched.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
A bunch of the Buzz podcast before, and then I
felt like the pressure like I really thought about, you know,
what I was saying and who I was going to
pick after listening to what everybody else pick. So I'm
I'm I in my in my mind, I thought you
might ask me who, So I was like, oh, who else?
But I'm relieved. I think that to this day. Radner
(26:46):
Lake is such an amazing place in the heart of Nashville.
So it's like in the middle of the city. It's
just a beautiful path around a lake and it's you know,
an hour, you know to get around the whole thing, really,
and I just.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Think it's just the biggest gen of the city. Yeah,
I love hiking.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
There so many good dirt paths and I think they're
under construction right now to fix the Iroin Road that
should be back up in November for yeah to check
it out.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, well, Jenny, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Again for being on taking a walk Nashville today. If
someone wants to purchase your memoir Becoming Gorilla, where's the
best place that they can find it?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Anywhere anywhere you buy books, but at my website. If
you purchased there, then I know that personally, and that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Means a lot to me too.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
Wonderful and that's Gorilla Marketing dot com. Yeah perfect, Thank
you again, thank you today.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Okay, thanks for listening to Taking a Walk Nashville with
singer songwriter Sarah Harrelson, and check out our other podcasts,
Music Save Me, Comedy Save Me, and Taking a Walk.
Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
M taking a Walk Nashville at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Like that simplicity of making sure that you do a
good job, that you don't mess it up, and that
you turn around and help somebody behind you.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Pretty powerful stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hi, this is Sarah Harrelson, your host of Taking a
Walk in Nashville Today. I am taking you to the
eighth Avenue South neighborhood in Nashville. Joining me today at
her office is Jenny Smyth, the founder and CEO of
award winning Girl LM Marketing, which heads digital strategy for
(00:37):
a diverse roster of world famous entertainers and brands, including
Debt and Company, Willie Nelson, Darius Rucker, Blondie Brookshields, and
Vince Gill just to name a fuel. Her early career
includes time at Disney's, Hollywood Records, Yahoo Music, Warner Brothers,
(00:57):
and Clear Channel. And today we are sitting down to
talk about her new memoir that is out now called
Becoming Girl.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Gorilla Buzzsnight and this is Taking a Walk Nashville with
singer songwriter Sarah Harrelsick.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
Hi, Jenny, thank you so much for being on the
Taken a Walk Nashville show today and.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You're having me. I'm happy to be here of course. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
So we are here at Gorilla Marketing today in Nashville,
and I just read your new memoir, Becoming Gorilla, that.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Was published earlier this year.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
So what inspired you to write about your life experiences
as far?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I want to tell you you're the first person in
a long time that has actually pronounced gorilla right, so
high five. We have many variations, but that was that's
fun and exciting for me. I wrote this book simply
because I felt like I had all this information and
(02:01):
all these stories that I thought people could really resonate
with and hopefully on the work side of life digital
marketing and social media really just take a look at
how they were behaving online and improve because there's so
many good things about it, and that really doesn't make
(02:21):
the news very often. So I wanted to kind of
tell the historical, you know, relevance to my life personally
through my career, but I also really wanted to leave
people with ideas and options of how to better relate
to human beings online.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
And you get very personal in your story in this
book and your life experiences, and I kind of got
chills reading the prologue myself because my father's name is
actually Pete and you have a peat. I have a peat,
and I was a strange for him for ten years
until my mother passed away and then I got reconnect
(03:00):
did with him.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So I just related whoheartedly to your.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Story, and I just think so many other people can
relate and connect to your story. So thank you for
sharing it. I definitely thank you for telling.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Me that because sometimes, like you know, that was the
intention of the book, is that and I said this,
I hope that people see themselves in my story. So
to hear that is actually really powerful for me because
I know that it worked and that was the intention.
And you just by saying that somebody's going to see
(03:36):
this podcast and they're going to say the same thing
to you, and that was the intention. It was just
to say, like, hold on a second, we're all connected.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
How do we move forward? And especially after the.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Last few weeks for us online have been really difficult
for a lot of us, And so even though the
book came out in April, you know, in October, the
fact that I'm still able to talk about the basics
of what I think we do together to move forward
(04:11):
in this type of communication is doing that.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
It's like really connecting with people. And so thank you
for telling me that.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
Yeah, thank you. I think connection is so important. I
think young female professionals will relate to this book a lot.
And I want to talk about the start of your
career because you say the music industry is all about
who you know sometimes, and I think that's so true.
And speaking of who you know, as stripper, landed your
(04:40):
first professional opportunity at Elektra Entertainment, and as she told you,
they they're going to think you're a stripper when you arrive.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Was not the case.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I mean, it was like there, it was a wild
time in the nineties. Yeah, but no, I don't think
anyone thought I was a stripper. But I did heed
her advice, which was it boiled down simply.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
She was like, I'm going to help you. Once you
get settled, you help somebody else. And then I won't.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Say what she actually the words that she used on
this podcast, but she basically, in a very blunt way,
told me not to mess it up, that there were
people that needed to be helped behind me, and like
there's not a career counselor that could have given me
better advice, Like it was so out of left field
coming from this person who I.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Don't even really know her real name, Like it was NICKI.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
That's all I know, you know. But if I could
find this person again, I often thought, oh, man, I
hope at one point she sees something and reaches out
and says, I'm Nikki.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That would be so amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
But at the end of the day, like that simplicity
of making sure that you do a good job, that
you don't mess it up, and that you turn around
and help somebody behind you.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Pretty powerful stuff.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, I think that's very important. And during the course
of a career, you worked for a lot of different
corporate companies in the corporate world and music, such as
Warner and Yahoo and clear Channel. But what was the
actual turning point that led you to starting your own
business guerrilla marketing And how did you navigate past the
(06:25):
fear of being an entrepreneur for the first time.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
So I was really lucky, Because I say lucky, I
worked really hard and took advantage of opportunities. So we
just called that lucky.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
To have amazing job opportunities at gigantic companies. The problem
with me with those particular companies, is that I never
really fit a particular role or I would fit now,
but then I naturally you want to keep changing and
(07:01):
doing different things. And when somebody offers you a job
for a role, it's pretty well defined, like here's your
job description, here's your salary cap. You know, you might
have a bonus structure or some kind of incentive, but
for the most part, like you know what your lane is.
And so even though I had amazing experience, it wasn't
(07:24):
like a I didn't have like a bad experience that
I was like, I can't do this anymore and I
need to start my own business. It wasn't like that
at all. It was it was basically more about I
don't fit in this world and I'm not utilizing the
skills that I have in the best way possible for me.
(07:47):
And so my only option was really to be an entrepreneur.
My only option was to start the company that I
envisioned that I wanted to work at. And in this
job seventeen eighteen years later, it changes every single day.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I don't have a lane.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I definitely have responsibilities as a CEO as making sure
the health and wealth in my company is you know,
doing well, but I don't know what I'm gonna do
every single day when I walk into this office. So
that is a spirit thing, you know, and you have
to be the right personality for that. But truly it
(08:30):
was a much more natural fit for me than anywhere else.
But you asked me how I got over the fear.
You don't ever get over the fear.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And again seventeen eighteen years later, the same worries that
you had on the first day that you start are
still there. But like, you do it.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Anyways and then it just becomes a muscle reaction. But
I even, you know, people used to say to me
all the time in the beginning, like why would you
do this? It's so risky, you know, how do you know?
Like what are you going to do when you're twenty
years in.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
You know?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And I'm like, man, those are all what ifs that
you could actually apply to any other job, you know,
because companies go under all the time. And I grew again,
I'm a kid in the nineties, so I saw all
these giant corporations fall. I saw all these people with houses,
their mortgages default.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I saw my dad.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Worked for the same company for twenty five years. My
mother worked for the government. That didn't seem like an
option for me.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
It just didn't. It just it wasn't for me.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
There's nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't for me,
And so I figured I would bet on myself.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Have to take a leap of faith.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, but like pragmatically speaking, the biggest piece of advice
that I have for anybody is.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
To just not go into debt. You know, because as
soon as you have debt and there's expenses, but expenses
are different than debt. Debt is changes how you make decisions.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
So yeah, I think that's a good point, especially because
you know, it might have been a different story if
just right off the bat, you were going to be saying,
you know, hey, I'm going to start my own company,
instead of the career experience you built up before that,
before those skills right that you learned.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And the same thing when you're starting out, like kids
that are coming out of college and they have accrued
an exorbitant amount of debt, they're making decisions based on
paying that debt off instead of setting up their life.
That's a huge problem for me.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Yeah, I think that's such an important point, And you
bring up a few times in your memoir how you
felt like you needed to accomplish a great amount by
the time you were thirty. And I think, as women especially,
we all put a deadline on ourselves, like we need
to accomplish this and that by the time we're thirty,
(11:07):
when you know.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
This shouldn't be the case at all.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
So what advice do you give to women who feel
like maybe they're stuck in their career at their age
and they can't break the glass ceiling.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Oh so making all of those decisions got me in
jobs I didn't like and a divorce, right, So if
I would have made different decisions, then I wouldn't be
here talking to you about these same things. So like,
it's not I wouldn't say that any of those things
are mistakes per se.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I would just.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Say that, like it was experienced, that maybe didn't have
to be so painful.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
But I truly believe that, like those weird.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Rules that we put on ourselves, I do feel like,
generationally speaking, some of those things have dissipated. And so
I see people that I work with that no longer
are feeling those kind of pressures. And you know, there's
biological pressures. Of course, there's biological pressures for women on
(12:13):
when they are gonna decide to potentially have a family
or not, and you know, that's that's something that has
to be addressed. But I think you see more options
and you have more examples now of people that have
worked through pregnancy or you know, adopted or you know,
got just so many different ways to do that. Where really,
(12:38):
when I was coming through it was based on two choices.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know, you were either going to have kids or
you weren't right.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
And how was your digital marketing agency shifted since you
opened it in two thousand and eight with the development
of technology.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Everything, I mean literally we if you just think about
what was happening hapening in two thousand and eight and
two thousand and nine online, it seems like simple times, man.
I mean it was like Facebook was a college thing.
Twitter was like having a moment YouTube. You know, you're
watching Obama inauguration videos, You're watching Susan Boyle like singing
(13:21):
her heart out, Like you're experiencing the Internet for the
first time with a lot of people. And not to
say the Internet wasn't there, because it was there before that,
but everybody having access and really what changed that was
the mobile phone, right, the smartphone, because up until then,
(13:42):
I mean I remember sending in marketing meetings and people saying, hey,
all those people between California and New York, they don't
have Wi Fi and they're like on dial up and
they're never going to adopt these things like music streaming
and downloads.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And I was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like that is crazy to just say we're only going
to care about this coast and this coast and everything
else in the middle the flyover states if you will
like these people, I mean, the implication was that, like
maybe they weren't a smart and I just was like
hardly offended by that, Like I wanted to I wanted
(14:25):
to speak to them, so like how do I do that?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
You know? And so that was that was that was
the assignment. The assignment was to.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Figure out how to reach people that you were told
maybe didn't want to be reached digitally.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And I just didn't believe that. And I still don't,
you know, when I hear things about you know, certain
research studies and you know, different ways that we measure
through survey, I'm just like.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I I refuse to believe it because I don't need
a middleman to tell me like what people find interesting
because people can speak for themselves. So that was that
was a huge game changer to be like the person
one of the people at the table who had the perspective.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
That didn't go through a gatekeeper.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Nashville podcast. Welcome back to Taking a Walk Nashville.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Would you say AI has helped you with it?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Was it still?
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Is it still just an area you guys were trying
to figure out how you can use it beneficially, look.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Double edged sword, huge issues on copyright, data protection, all
of those things.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
But just like when the Internet came, just when the search.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Engines came, it's an equalizer and it is another tool
in our in our arsenal and as people, you know,
you used to be able to choose like are you
going to watch DV? Are you going to go on
the internet? Are you going to go to the library,
are you going to read a book? All of that
AI is already here. It's already integrated into everything that
(16:22):
you do online. So the idea of you know, sort
of raging against it is futile. What you have to
do is figure out how do you use it to
your advantage. So to answer your question, my our biggest
hurdle are impostors. From a music marketing standpoint, our biggest are,
(16:45):
hands down is impostors and and scams of our fans online.
And the platforms don't really help us out.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
So they give us tools to proactively report these things
in which is helpful, but it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
It's like a never ending game of whack a mole
and it costs us time. It costs us money and time.
You know, certain things don't get.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Removed because the impostors and the fake accounts get nuanced
to the rules of like what.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Is considered an impostor and what isn't. And it's heartbreaking
to read some of these stories of people that are
catfished and think that they're talking to somebody and they're not.
Some networks are better than others, but for the most part,
that's our biggest hurdle right now.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Yeah, I think your job has been constantly shifting with
the course of technology, and it will continue to. But
do you think it's harder with technology now for everything
you have to sort through or does it make it
easier because you don't have to phone up as many
people stick flyers around them.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I actually think you still need to do that because
I feel like you're leaving real life, you know, a
side by just concentrating solely on digitally. So I would
say this, I would say, the volume is what makes
it sort of unattenable.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
It's the amount of networks.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Is the amount of different types of content that needs
to be created on each network, right like it used
to be this was for video, this was for photo,
This is for pictures of your kids and your dogs,
right like, that was kind of how we looked at things,
and now it's hey, these are the five different types
(18:41):
of media that you need to create for this. This
is the interaction, you know whatever. So I sort of
liken it too, having multiple networks within your reach, and
each network has its own set of channels, and so
how do you approach that? And sometimes it's the same
on you know, across the channel, but oftentimes it's not.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So it's a volume thing.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
But I will say this, I love social media the
idea of being without it, even though it is not
without its faults, But I do remember a time without it,
and I am very happy to be connected with people,
(19:26):
to be able to keep in touch with my friends
who don't live here or that do, and that we're
just busy and on different paths, and that I get
to see those birthday photos and I get to see
you know, their accomplishments at their jobs, and just in general,
you know, able to learn about causes that are important
(19:46):
to me that I can donate to. Like these are
all blessings, but for the most part, the ethos in
this building is that you don't own these networks and
you can't depend on them. Like we're as we're sitting
here today, on the date that we're sitting down, there's
a strong possibility by the time this goes live that
(20:09):
will have some indication of what is going to be
happening to a particular network or not, you know, in the.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Next three four months.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So things like that are really good reminders that like
you can use that you can use these networks, but
you can't rely on them.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So as old school and eye rolly as.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
This sounds, it's super important that you have your own properties,
your email list, your website, you know, any any business
that you own that you have the data because at
any given time, one of these networks can go down,
go away, get bought, get sold.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And we've seen this before.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
You know, you asked me about two thousand and nine,
like man MySpace was was it? It's not here anymore,
and we still talk about it like it was a
part of our culture.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
It was a part of our ethos.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And so these things can be impactful and they can
also be fleeting.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Yeah, you just never know, right, of course it's going
to take rice exactly. You've dealt with your own battle
of breast cancer, and you know, it seems everywhere you
look now people are dealing with cancer in some form
of another, and many entrepreneurs and full time creatives can't
afford health insurance or they just kind of put it off,
(21:31):
and then when they deal with their own health battle,
you know, they're out of work, they're not able to
go and do their job. And you are on the
board of Music Health Alliance. So how does this organization
break the barrier for people in the music industry struggling
to obtain healthcare.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
They're so far beyond even breaking the barrier. I mean,
there was nobody doing this work.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So Tatum, the founder of Music Health Lifecience, had a
wide breadth of professional experience before she founded this company,
but she started on the music business side, and I
think she saw a need that we weren't taken care of,
as a lot of us are independent contractors, a lot
(22:18):
of us are musicians that after a certain point in life,
it's impossible to be a touring musician or you know
a plethora of reasons why somebody can't live on the
road anymore. And we get so much from this community.
Not only do we get amazing art, but we get friendships,
we get support systems, we get you know, community like
(22:41):
and those aren't buzzwords like, that's literally what we have.
And so to know that somebody who's given their whole
life to the music community has we don't. I mean, yes,
we have unions for certain points of professional careers, but
for the most part, none of us qualify for any
anything like that. So Tatum became the conduit to the
(23:06):
music insurance and medical community and the music community when
nobody else was doing it. And I was lucky enough
to see her start that company. So for me, we
are pretty similar in our personalities. We are pretty similar
in our love of the community and also tenacity to
(23:30):
make something happen. And we started at our company's you
know right around the same time. She's a little younger
on that front. But she not only has helped me,
but I mean thousands of pounds, thousands of people, and
it is everything that you could potentially imagine. It is
(23:52):
organ transplants, it is preventative dental care, it is you know,
having a dedicated resource for medicare. It is the place
where a lot of us, when something acute happens, we call.
Like she has become the person that we all call
(24:14):
providing services to small businesses like mine, of finding insurance
that everyone here is covered.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
There isn't.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I don't have an asset in my business, like I
don't have master recordings, I don't have any of that.
My business assets are my people. And so for me
as an entrepreneur being able to make decisions of where
my resources are going to go. I hate how expensive
(24:42):
the insurance company is. The insurance company businesses because it's
a business. They're not out here being nonprofits for us.
In fact, they're profiting very well, some would say criminally profitable.
But my biggest expense minus our mortgage, is paying our
health insurance premiums. And at one point in my career
(25:06):
when I showed up on Tatum's doorstep. My business wasn't
going to make it because of health insurance costs. And
when I think about that and how many people entrepreneurs,
small businesses, and especially women owned business because there was
a time when our insurance was much more expensive than
mail insurance, which is a whole nother podcast. We had
(25:31):
to find a reason to keep going, and Tatum was
that reason to help me find something.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
That I could.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Know that I was doing the right thing for my team,
but also know that I wasn't going to default on
any of my thoughts.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I love that and I just love to bring awareness
to that organization. So I hope if anyone that's in
the music full time listening to this episode at or
checkout Music Health Alliance.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That makes me help. That was very joyful.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Yes, So since we were on taking a walk Nashville,
I know when you were on taking a walk with Buzz,
he asked you who would you take a walk with,
But in this podcast, I like to ask where in
Nashville is.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Your favorite place to take a walk. So I think
every after I watched I had watched.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
A bunch of the Buzz podcast before, and then I
felt like the pressure like I really thought about, you know,
what I was saying and who I was going to
pick after listening to what everybody else pick. So I'm
I'm I in my in my mind, I thought you
might ask me who, So I was like, oh, who else?
But I'm relieved. I think that to this day. Radner
(26:46):
Lake is such an amazing place in the heart of Nashville.
So it's like in the middle of the city. It's
just a beautiful path around a lake and it's you know,
an hour, you know to get around the whole thing, really,
and I just.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Think it's just the biggest gen of the city. Yeah,
I love hiking.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
There so many good dirt paths and I think they're
under construction right now to fix the Iroin Road that
should be back up in November for yeah to check
it out.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, well, Jenny, thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Again for being on taking a walk Nashville today. If
someone wants to purchase your memoir Becoming Gorilla, where's the
best place that they can find it?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Anywhere anywhere you buy books, but at my website. If
you purchased there, then I know that personally, and that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Means a lot to me too.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
Wonderful and that's Gorilla Marketing dot com. Yeah perfect, Thank
you again, thank you today.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Okay, thanks for listening to Taking a Walk Nashville with
singer songwriter Sarah Harrelson, and check out our other podcasts,
Music Save Me, Comedy Save Me, and Taking a Walk.
Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
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