March 6, 2025 • 54 mins
Brandon gushes over one of their idols as Therapist and influencer Shahem Mclaurin joins to deep dive into cheating. But first, a game of F*ck, Marry, Block and some messy stories about people who aren't really your "friends."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you think giving people a second chance after cheating
is okay? Not okay? What are your feelings? What's your
stance on it?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
They will have to go about a lot of changes
to re earn that trust, and you, the person who
is violated, will have to go about a lot of
changes to open yourself back up to trusting that person.
That is a therapist answer.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Wow, that was a very great therapist answer. Okay, and
now what's your answer?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hell? Fuck?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
You know what we do here destroy shame around sex
by talking about sex. Now let me tell you something messy. Okay,
So I you know this has nothing to do with sex,
but it's my show. So sometimes the things are not
about sex, are just things that annoy me. And you
know what annoys the fuck out of me? And I
know not only one. When motherfucker's thumbs up a text.
(00:57):
One of my best friends loves a thumbs up, And
every time somebody thumbs up a text, I'm like, are
you mad?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's like when.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
People use a period, like if you use good punctuation,
like sometimes punctuation is necessary in your text. But if
you're somebody who goes hello, period, you're a serial killer. Girl,
Like what that to me feels like are you mad
at me? Are you annoyed at me? It's just not
a good time. Just like I have a friend and
she she just loves her punctuation. But for the longest
(01:25):
time I used to think she was pissed at me
because she would put a period at the end of
every fucking text message. And now my best mother best
friend thumbs up a text. I'd be like, hey, how
are you thumbs up? Okay, oh, I'm planning on and
this thing happened to thumbs up girl. If you don't
give me a heart, I need a heart, I need
an exclamation point. I'll even take a question mark if
(01:48):
you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
But a thumbs up.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That straight up disrespect. And I know I'm not the
only one who thinks this, And so this is this
is for those of us who are offended by your
motherfucking thumbs up. Anyone who knows me, Next time you
text me, and next time I text you, hearts hearts
love joy, smiley faces, a smirk, devil emoji. There's so
(02:11):
many fucking options. Don't thumbs up. I'll fucking break your
thumb Ooh that's what my mother used to say. My
mother black moms. You know, like if you be like
thumbs little birds, I'll break that finger off. And that's
how I feel. That's i'ma Actually I'm gonna text my
best friend right now. I'm gonna break your thumb off
the next time you thumbs up me and see what
he says. It's with the love. But respectfully, you know
(02:33):
what I'm saying, speaking of thumbs. Have I set this on?
I know I've said it on the internet, and I
know I've said it in shows, But have I said
on the podcast the thumb theory? Do you don't know
the thumb theory? Okay, listen, If you don't know the
thumb theory, if you if you follow me for a minute,
you probably know the thumb theory. If you don't know
the thumb theory, and if I've said it on a
previous episode, I apologize that I'm repeating it. But anyways,
(02:55):
you could tell the size of a dick, the length
with the girth by looking at us somebody's thumb. This
is science. Shut up, shut up wherever you are, shut up. Okay,
I'm telling you this is this is whole science is hology,
all right, The whole ology of a thumb is that
you can tell. Now listen, Please don't come for me,
(03:16):
because I know that there are probably some medical professionals
that do be listening to this podcast. Listen. My friend
told me this, and honestly, honestly, I've found my research,
lots and lots of research, and I have discovered that
a lot of times the thumbs be matchined. Now, some
of y'all will say, no, it doesn't listen a lot
(03:37):
of times I didn't say all the time. Okay, this
theory works a solid I'm gonna say ninety percent of
the time. Okay, is what I is what I gather
from you know, my my private research that I self
funded research that the thumb you look at it, you
could tell you know the size of it, with the
girth right, that thumb is looking, you know, thickish, maybe
(04:01):
that dick will be thickish. Okay. If that thumb is
looking long, baby, that dick is probably gonna be nice
and long. And if that thumb is looking like short,
then that dick might also be short. Do me a favor.
Look at your partner's thumbs. Okay, look at your penis
owning partner's thumbs, and then look at that penis and
(04:22):
see and tell and see if I'm correct, and I
know that I am time. So the ten percent of
you go it's not true. Respect I heard, I understand,
But there will be ninety percent of you that I're
gonna be like, yeah, messy mom was correct. By the way,
Welcome to the show. This is tell me something, Messie.
(04:44):
I'm your host, Brandon Kyle good Man. Most people call
me MESSI mom, but you could call me a hoologist. Hello. Yes, okay,
let's get this show started. Maybe you know what that means.
It's time for I guess now while they get situated
and before we do our whole manifestel and get up
(05:05):
into this messy key key a little bit of hoe keeping.
Now y'all may know by now, but maybe you knew here.
We're trying to get to our one hundred and fifty
ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts and Spotify podcast before
this month is out, because it just helps us grow
this show. It helps get you know, the We gotta
(05:26):
play with this motherfucker algorithm. You understand, So if you
have it, and I know a lot of you haven't,
because there are thousands of you here and only like ratings.
So if you haven't it, just take a second give
us that five star rating and you can write us
a little review. It doesn't have to be anything in depth.
It could literally just be like this show is lit baby, Okay,
this is the one to check out. Very simple. It
(05:48):
really again does help the show. So thank you and
time for the whole manifestel Grant me the serenity to
unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to
know that second is not just about penetration, the audacity
to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the strength to
not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl, or
(06:08):
fuck bay, for it is better to masturbate by myself
in peace than to let someone play in my motherfucker face.
Let the community say wolujah. I am so excited to
have Shahim on the show. Shahim McLaurin is a black
gender queer, licensed social worker, therapist and influencer born and
(06:29):
raised in Baltimore, Maryland, who is currently stationed in Brooklyn,
New York. With upwards of eight hundred thousand followers, Shahim
uses their platform to address a wide range of social
and mental health issues impacting people of color, patriarchy, impact
of people and members of the LGBTQ plus community. Shahim
has built a loyal community around their provision of mental
(06:52):
health advice, support and self care tips. Y'all please help me.
Welcome Shahhim Hashi. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I am fangirling. I was so excited that you're here.
I love your videos. I'm obsessed. I repost them, as
you know, I send them to people. I always feel
like you. You deliver the truth with love, compassion, but
also it's the truth. It's just like it is what
(07:25):
it is.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I'll definitely try.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You and you succeed, You succeed. Okay, before we get
into our messy gi key, here's some messy mandates. One,
things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinion shared
have the right to evolve, shift or change today, tomorrow,
ten years from now. And if during the key key
something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we use the
safe word foosball, which gives us a chance to pivot
(07:48):
and address accordingly.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Sounds nice, that sounds perfect, sounds lovely.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Shall we start with a lube breaker? Yes, it's great,
So we're gonna play around to fuck Mary block. Yes,
so fuck Mary block. Tongue in your ear, tongue in
your mouth, tongue in your ass. Oh you know you
really felt away?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Okay, Well, I will say immediately block tongue in the ear. Okay,
it does nothing for me, does nothing for me, all right.
I definitely would fuck tongue in ass, yes, and I
would marry tongue in the mouth floor Jesus.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Lord Jesus, Yes, okay, I'm with you. I'm in a
block tongue in the air. It does do something for me,
and I also does something for my boyfriend loves a
tongue in the air, and I'm so turned on when
I'm turning somebody else on. But unfortunately it doesn't do
it enough.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I'm just always like, well is it okay?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So, by the way, like, are people putting their tongue
in your ear with a with a pointy tongue, a
kermit tongue, or a flat tongue.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It doesn't does nothing.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
For me because the pokey, the kerment that, yeah, that's
that I don't want like the sensation, but a nice
like flat Sorry, I am going to marry oh see
a tongue in the I love eating ass making out.
(09:19):
I'm gonna fun that. I'm gonna fuck the tongue in
the ass because I have nothing if we're not making out.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
This is the most interesting way I've ever started a podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Welcome to the show. I'm going to marry. I'm marry
tongue in the mouth because I always want to make
out like nothing if we're not making out.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, fuck Mary block fuck Mary block. Spit play, come play, food.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Play, block food play immediately. Okay, absolutely know.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You don't want that food for the table.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Damn. The rest are tied low key for me. Okay,
so you fucking come play, Marry and come play. I'm
by that. I'll do that first.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
You're gonna marry, come play.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, because you can't do that with everybody, that's something
you got to ask. But spin, I feel like I
can do that with everybody. So I'll marry, spit play,
come play. Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I love that. Okay, I'm I'm only blocking food plate
because I haven't tried it yet, but I really I'm curious. Well,
all I've had is like a lollipop on somebody's asshole,
which I talked about way too many times. But that's
the most I've done. But I am ready to like
eat a cast roll or for somebody's titties. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I am.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I am hungry for it, but intended, I like, really
want to eat a cast roll off some titties and
call it a day. And it's like, I don't know,
maybe I'll love it, maybe I hate it, but I'd
like to try it. But for now, you'll block. I'll
block the food blade. Look at you. You cross your legs.
You said that's very nice. I mean, judge, what maybe
if you like it, I love it, I'm going to
(11:07):
I'm going to marry, come play, and I'm gonna spit
play wise decision. I always want your cum, you know
what I'm saying. Yes, every Yeah, I don't always want
to spit, but I always want to come. Okay, Amen,
fuck Mary block metal cock ring, Prince Albert Penis Cage.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Can I block all of them?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Listen?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You can't. Oh god, it can be. It can be
a you know, okay, a temporary marriage, a short marriage,
a short session, immediate block to the Prince Albert.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, this a piercing on your pee hole.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I can't do that, but I'll marry the cock ring
and I will fuck the page.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
In the exact same way the Prince albert in theory sounds.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
But like I feels good though, huh, I it feels good.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
But I got my nipple pierced and that was enough
piercing for me. On like it hurts. By the way,
it took too long because my nipples were smaller, it
fell out. I had to have it repierced. I don't
want my Prince. If my Prince album falls out, I'm pissed.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I'm pissed.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I want to do that first round. Nah No, I
got a block, Prince Albert. I will marry a little
cock ring because you know, I'm always down to have
cock ring on. And I think a penis cach. I've
never been in the penis cage, but I find it.
I find it interesting and I'm I'm open to it,
but maybe, but I feel like it wouldn't be something
I would marry because I don't don't cage me. I
(12:42):
don't want to be a free bird.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You won the game, By the way, you don't want
any money, as I always say, you just want my
unconditional love.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So congratulations.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Don't talk to me like that. Okay, if y'all have
any uh lou breaker ideas or prompts, you can email
tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Speaking of which.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Shahim, do you want to tell me something messy? Yes,
I'm so anxious about Well, I'm not anxious. I recently
today found out that I was blocked by someone who's
a fellow content creator because of a boy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
What mean because of a boy?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well? I was fucking him first, right and they Yeah,
I'm not gonna reveal too many details because it's I
don't want I don't want to have because people could
put two and two together. I was talking first, that's it.
I was first, before they did anything got together any
of that. I was fucking a man first.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
But do you think that's a reason to be blocked.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, that's not the part. It's a more complicated story.
But I will say, you know, it was a lot
of gray area. There's a situation. I don't I don't
move that much over boys, Like why over a boy?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Over a boy? I really feel like we can have
a if we're friends, we can have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, we weren't really friends and you are according to me,
we weren't friends according to them.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
That's interesting. What do you classify as a friend.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Do we hang out like it could be even in
a group setting, like, or do we hang out? Do
we talk to each other like outside of running into
each other? Do you like call me? Do we like
intentionally spend time with time? Yes, if we don't do
those things and we just like are like high and
(14:43):
by when we see each other, like we're just like.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Cool, We're we're acquaintances and like I can.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Be friends with people like like more on the peripheral, Like,
but yes, if I'm not, if I don't have moments
where I'm connecting with you on an intimate level, and
every time I've seen you has been like running into
you in public, like I wouldn't necessarily classify us as friends.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I really love that you're saying this, and I think
that we need to bring bring back acquaintances because I
do think that like everybody's a friend, especially with social media, right,
like everybody is a friend. And you're like, no, you
don't even have my phone number, like you never text
to see how I'm doing. I never check up on you.
I don't know what's going on in your life if
it's not on the internet, So that wouldn't be a
(15:27):
friend to me. We're friendly, right, but we're not friends.
But but sometimes I do think people will try to
hold you to friends standards when you're only friendly, and
that gets confusing.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, well, I hope it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
You don't seem too pressed about it, but I hope
it's no you tried. I saw you look off to
try and be pressed, and you said, well, no, I'm
not gonna go there.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Do you want to do some messy mail?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Lovely? Okay, Patrons, As always, your submissions remain anonymous. So
this first one says ex's friend is hitting me up,
told myself, be the mess you wish to see in
the world.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It's on. Wow, your ex's friends are they still friends?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
The excess friend?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah? Friends still friends? That's messy me personally, like for
a fleeing maybe like And now I know people might
think that this is controversial, but like, I mean no,
because frankly, if you would do another bitch greasy, you
would do me greasy too.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, like if you had like a no attachment, you're like, ill,
fuck you, but like.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
There's no Yeah, I mean it's just a little different different,
But I would like it's more so the question around
that X in their connection to their friends. It's weird.
Why I'd be.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Curious, like why you wishing out to me? Yeah, like
that's your friend, why you reaching out?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
And then I don't want that karma.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I'm thinking of all of my uh ex's friends, like
any of them reach out to me. I'm just I
wouldn't have anything very much to say.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You know what, I'm now that you think. I did
have one of my friends his ex reached out to
my best friend and we were all like, mmmm, coral
you played but nothing happened. But it was one of
those where like, oh, you greet your dirty for that,
Like why would you?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I actually had an ex friend reach out to an
ex of mine, like on one of the apps from
an anonymous page. That's a messy story. Mess that's messy friend.
But even it's like boy, you could have had the boy.
All you have to do is ask.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
There are also so many boys, like.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Please, it's a boy, be serious, it's a boy.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
At the end, of the day. It's a boy. Okay,
this one says, I'm happily married. However I have the
biggest gym crush and it's getting more intense. What do
I do?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Girl? Going about your day? Gone about your day, especially
if you're happily married, don't about your day. Do not
throw away your life for some fantasy.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Serious, honestly, that's that's tee, that's key. It's a fantasy.
And Jim crush fantasies are the best. And I love
a gym crush. And you have the fantasy of they've
never had a gym crush, You've never had a hold
on what do you mean you never had a Jim crush? Like,
what do you mean like or like a like a
sport crush or team crush.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I mean I find people attractive, of course, but it's
not it's just like in passing it.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But that's a Jim crush. I know that Jim crush
is in passing.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It's like I don't like that person is cute. Yeah,
that's a crush out of mind, don't give it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It's just somebody that you see repeatedly that you're like,
oh they're cute, like a work crush, like.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I mean, the thought comes the first time and then
it's just like, okay, yeah, are you smooth?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It just rolls off.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Is it smooth?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean, I guess like I'm I'm be pressed about
my I'd be like, look at it, I'm lifting it
a little more.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I'd be pressed. But it takes a lot to get
me there. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
What gets you pressed, Like what does the person have
to do or how does it have to be?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I like a sensitive man?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Oh real bad, You're like a soft little tender m m.
How do you know they're sensitive? Like they they asked
you what your daying like? What what constitutes a sensitive.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Someone who is like, uh, one not afraid to express
themselves emotionally, but the full range of emotion and someone
who is like intentional about how they care for the
people around them. That turns me, oh jesus wow.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I love your standards. I love your standards. There are
never lower them. I on the other hand, I love
I do love, I do love a sensitive man. I
do have a lot of gym crushes, and I, you know,
(20:06):
a new one every time, and I kind of look
for them. I seek out a gym crush. It's just
fun to me for the hour that I'm there. I
love finding people to be attracted to. I love trying
to impress them with how run fast, how much? How
long I stay on the stairstupper because I'm not running
on nobody's trying to the stairstepper, getting of ask and
I want them to see it. But they also stressed
(20:29):
me out. I had one of my gym crushes, this
is months ago, finally walked up to me and like
said hi to me, but then he thought I was
somebody else. He thought. He was like get he like named,
He's like, You're I just I said, hey, I'm Brandon.
He was like, oh I thought you were and he
said another name.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I was like.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Devastating him and I never did and I never did
hardly because I never saw him again. But if I did,
I would never talk to him again, because don't you
fucking my name like that. This one says my BF
cheated and I gave him a second chance, And I'm
gonna couple that with another one that says girlfriend told
(21:10):
me she wanted to just be friends with a person
and ended up fucking them while I was away, And
so I'm using both of those. So we can talk
about cheating and where should we jump into cheating? Well,
let's start with this first question, which is I gave
him a second chance. Do you think giving people a
second chance after cheating is okay?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Not?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay? What are your feelings? What's your stance on it?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Life has taught me a lot about this question. Okay.
I can give you a therapeutic answer, or I can
give you my answer. She's a therat I've learned. Here's
what I want.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I want the therapist answer first, and then I want
your answer.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Okay. So the therapist's answer is that conflict can be overcame
in any connection. It will take a lot of dedication
and a lot of rebuilding of trust, which is possible.
It just takes two people who are dedicated to doing that.
The person who committed the violation of trust, they will
have to go about a lot of changes to re
(22:10):
earn that trust, and you, the person who is violated,
will have to go about a lot of changes to
open yourself back up to trusting that person. That is
a therapist answer.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Wow, that was a very great therapist answer. Okay, And
now what's your answer?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Hell? Fuck us? Oh I will say, why is it? Hell,
don't tell me from my experience. I will say, from
my personal experience, like sometimes sometimes because I'm not going
to make too broad of us sweeping statement, sometimes you
(22:43):
give people permission to mistreat you when they get away
with it the first time. And that is a lesson
I wish I could go back and tell younger me
that is something that cheating comes from a place often
not always, but often comes from a place where a
person's integrity is not like aligned with what I like
(23:07):
a person who I'm into residence integrity to be. Yeah,
And I learned that lesson the hard way. So I
personally don't believe that a person who cares about you
will put you in a predicament where they leave you
devastated from being violated like that. Personally, yes, but I
(23:30):
would also reflect within as to why you think that
that type of treatment is treatment that you should put
up with.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Oof, I need a moment. I really dropped a lot
of bars, truly, didn't I say at the top, like,
you really really tell it like it is? I am
you know this. I'm so fascinated by cheating because I'm
(23:56):
with you. And then I also have like a curiosity
of out the cheater, because I know so often when
we talk about cheating, it's very clear, like there's a
there's a transgression that happened, there's a right and a wrong.
And I am all like, if if my best friend
got cheated on, I would absolutely say leave them in hell,
(24:17):
and actually, in fact, you go check out. I will
handle this, you know what I'm saying, Like, I I
recognize that. But then I'm also I guess there's a
side of me that is curious about the cheater why
it happened, because some people just don't give a fuck.
But then there are those cases where trauma got the
(24:38):
best of somebody, where their baggage or the the self sabotage,
the inability to hold love or retain love, the fear
of the relationship getting deeper, the fe like all those
things act up. Now, that doesn't mean that the person
who's been cheated on should give them a second chance
(24:59):
or stay like that's totally up to you. But I'm like, oh,
where is the space to have conversations about people who've cheated,
Which now leads to me, I wasn't sure I was
going to share this piece, but I cheated once. And
I have so much shame around it. I finally told
(25:19):
my husband about it. It wasn't on my husband, it
was in a previous relationship, but I I never even
told him about it. And we've been together for nine years,
and I finally told him about it a year ago.
In my defense, the context of this cheating was that
I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and I did
not know how to get out. And I remember a
friend of mine cheated on her partner who I knew,
(25:42):
and we got lunch together. We were talking about it,
and she was like, I didn't know how to get
out of the relationship, and so I cheated because I
knew there was no way to come back. And then
a year after that conversation, I found myself unable to
get out of this relationship, and so I cheated. And
I never told that partner because I didn't want. I
knew that if we were to stay together, I'm a
(26:02):
terrible liar. I'm an awful liar, so I would have
to tell him. And so my choices were to tell
him and stay or to end the relationship and get out.
I ended the relationship and I got out, but I
just like I think about I don't know, so it
just like makes me always think about cheating and why
people are cheating and is there a space to have
empathy for cheaters, And of course there is, but I
(26:25):
don't know. Now I'm just rambling about the No.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I mean, I appreciate you for being vulnerable about that. Yeah,
I think it's okay to hold both of those troops
at the same time. Right, somebody can cheat and it
can come from a place of trauma, and it is
also trauma inducing for the person on the receiving end
of Yes, right, both of those things exist at the
same time. We have a tendency to try and break
(26:51):
something down to where it can only be one truth,
but it's multiple. Do I believe that those people deserve empathy? Yeah,
I know that's controversial because a lot of people are
like cheaters are all terrible people. Yeah, And it's like, well, no,
I don't believe that people are disposable, and I believe
people can learn from these things like I've been cheated
(27:11):
on yea, and I by no means like like my
ex who cheated on me? And no, by no means,
do I have any animosity towards them, Like we've done,
all the things, we've had, all the conversations. I've moved on.
Hopefully he's moved on. Yeah, And you can grow from it,
and hopefully he has grown. He's experienced some more life
(27:34):
after our relationship. It sounds like he's grown from it,
and you know, that's great. I wish him all the best.
The trauma that I endured as a result of being
cheated on, that was even deeper because it was in
a public way. But you know, I even have like
processed that, I've like sat with it, I've grieved it,
(27:55):
I've let it go, and I'm able to like open
myself up to probably right now but for separate reasons,
but like, I was able to open myself up to
romantic connections after like and I knew that his sheeting
was a result of him feeling the pressure of the relationship.
I don't know, I was like, I'll put pressure on him,
(28:15):
but the relationship itself was pressure. We were talking about
things like marriage. It was a very public facing relationship.
That was I think his first time like experiencing having
so many eyes on him at that time, and I
think it was just hard. You have all these people
constantly throwing themselves at you because of who you're dating,
(28:37):
or like how your relationship is set up. You are
young and like all that, like, and I understand also,
like he was struggling and we had these conversations, he
was struggling to keep up with me, Like I'm a
very like you know, yeah, I'm a go get it
maybe I know here on in these streets. And you know,
(28:59):
while I would, I went really hard for our connection, Like,
it was still like intimidating for him. Yeah, it was
fucked up. That part doesn't change. But I don't think
it was coming from a place of malice to it
hurt me. He knew it was going to hurt me.
He did it anyway, So it was fucked It was
a shitty thing to do. Yeah, and I knew that
(29:20):
he truly loved and cared about me. He just did
not know how to process that. And Yeah, for that
and many other reasons, it's important that people learn how
to process and deal with their emotions and how to
communicate effectively before they hop into relationships. We all should
work on ourselves a little bit, and none of us
(29:41):
get it right all the time. And we learned through relationships,
but it's important to keep in mind that it is
a constant process of reassessing yourself and growing. And if
he had done that while we were together, if he
knew how to effectively communicate at the time, I doubt
that he would have even done that.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, I mean, would you say that. I don't know
if this is true, but I'm wondering if a lot
of cheating is a result of the inability to communicate clearly,
also the inability to process. But it's like if you
don't have I'm curious if you lack, if your communication
(30:19):
skills are rough, are you more likely to cheat? Or
it's before the communication, it's the inability to process your
emotions and then communicate, and that leads to usually.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I think it's hard to narrow it down to one
exact expression of it because some people are actually just like,
very selfish and want to have their cake and eat
and eat it too. Yeah. Some people literally couldn't emote
their way out of a paper bag, and you know, seriously,
And some people are traumatized because of how they were
(30:56):
conditioned and raised to not be able to express themselves.
They are afraid of expressing themselves and do horrible things
to people as a result.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, I learned over and over again, if you are
not somebody engaging with your emotions and trying to heal,
then you are likely going to cause problems. Not that
like people who are doing that don't also cause problems.
But I think you're able.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
To cheat it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, I cheat it back, though I don't regret that
I cheat it back.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah I sure did.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, yeah, it happens.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Right, I wouldn't do that in this current iteration of myself.
But yeah, what thank.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
You for saying it in that way, because I think
that also there are acknowledging that we are different versions
of ourselves, and so a version of yourself that wasn't
able to communicate a process or whatever made different choices
than the version that you are now. And I think
giving people this space that if they have cheated, that
they can have a runway to change. You can leave
(32:05):
them where you found them, for sure, but like understanding
that they aren't a bad person.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Can I also introduce another aspect that I think is
really important here. Right, I had to develop a politic
around dating, and I still have this politic, and although
many people do not have dating politics, it is so
important to me that when I walk away from a connection,
like I don't want that person to feel lied, to,
(32:32):
manipulate it, or controlled, so long as they don't feel
any of those things from my part, Like I feel
like I upheld my end of the deal, which requires transparency,
which is different from being just honest, like being transparent
and forthcoming with information that is pertinent to that person.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
It's transparent more so like honest is like if you
ask me a question, I answered exactly, transparent as I'm
offering exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
You don't have to go digging for information. You know
what you need to know. Yeah, and that's all trust is. Unfortunately,
it is very difficult to come across people, at least
I feel in this state that I exist in, it
is very hard to come across people who maneuver through
life in a similar way. But I think that's why
(33:15):
it's important that we have conversations like this so people know,
like you should have a politic around this stuff, like
I practice with how you approach and engage people, and
not just like romantically, but even in your platonic connections
and your business connections and all your connections, like people
should feel at least that's my goal.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I agree. I agree. I think it's like people think
they should be nice and good, but I think it's
so helpful to hear like I have a politic around
how I show up with people and articulating that so
that you can also check yourself and make sure, like
am I living up to the standards that I'm setting
(33:56):
for myself with the expectations that I have for myself.
Both of these people who're written on have been cheated on.
So we've talked about the cheater and trying to make
space for you know, empathy around why somebody cheats. But
then if you've been cheated on, what is the I
(34:18):
guess what is the context in what you take somebody
back or what is what do you think that person
should be considering if they are thinking about a second chance.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Well, I will say, like cheating even looks different in
every connection, Like there are people who are even cool
like probably people who are cool with like seeing multiple people. Yes, right,
but if you don't communicate or express that like and
you do it like in a way that is behind
the person's fact, that's cheating in that connection. Right, Yes,
So first, like you should establish what cheating means and
(34:49):
your connection, and I think a lot of people to
the credit, I think a lot of people do it,
but I think there are enough people that don't wear it.
There's often like a lot of clashing when it comes
to like figuring out what that means. I like to
have conversations very early in relationships about what that looks
like in that So.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I've never done that, but I think that's so like
what do we do? What do we in this relationship
define cheating ass because some people say, oh, you're dming.
Somebody is cheating to me, and some people say, I
don't give a fuck about your DMS.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, but like.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Knowing that is so important, Okay, yes, great, So defining.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
That yeah, and like part of like and I'm really
big on this, like shared definitions, Like it's how we
keep each other accountable, Like if you know what is happening,
Like if we both agree that this is the thing,
if you violate that thing that we both define, then
you are like violating the contract clear and like when
(35:46):
it comes to repair after rupture. For me, one thing
that is really really important is remorse. And I like,
I trust me. I've had these conversations with Jesus. If
somebody violates my trust. One, are they remorseful? Yeah, And
expressing remorse is just the first step. What are they
(36:07):
willing to do to remedy? Like what what harm they've caused? Like,
how are they willing to change behavior? Or what are
they willing to like to do in order to like
basically address the rupture that they caused. Are they actually
putting in the effort to do that? Yeah? Yeah, and
you should not. My own personal experience has taught me this.
(36:29):
So this is my opinion. You don't have to live
by this. But I feel like I should never have
to instruct someone like or like prompt someone to try
and repair connection, because if that person is not eager
to try and do that on their own, that is
enough of a sign.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
You doin that that makes sense, that's fair. Like if
they violated something, they know they violated something, they need
to come kiss the ring if you will not, even
like they need to be showing remorse and proactive about
the repair that it's not on the person who's been
violated shoulders to be like, this is how we repair this?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, do the work. And what I will say is
and it's really hard, and trust me, I've been on
the receiving end of this, and it has been really difficult,
and I didn't walk away in instances where I should have.
You really do have to dig deep, deep, deep, deep
down and try and find like that like self worth
(37:31):
when it comes to navigating these situations. Yeah, because ultimately,
like why why are you accept if a person is
not doing the things to try and repair, why are
you accepting this behavior? Right? But also like when you
take someone back if they violate again, like the behavior
didn't change. Yeah, just saying.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
It's like I thought about like the Maya Angela quote
when somebody shows you who they are believed in the
first time, which kind of goes against the second chance
thing because there's a space in which you have empathy
and say, okay, like my partner was experiencing S Y
and Z, and I understand why they did it, and
so like I can give them a second chance, but
then if they do it again, then it's like, well,
(38:15):
the thing is a thing.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Love Cardi for example, Cardi B like she put up
with a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
I think about her often in this topic because I'm like,
oh wow, this like I think about her specifically because
you see her as this what she is. She's on
top of her game, incredibly powerful, beautiful, funny, talented, but
there is this cycle in which she is.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
It can happen to any other of us.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
We're all in our we can all be in our cycles,
and hopefully, I don't know, hopefully there's amends to be made.
But if we continue to go back into the cycle,
then it's a matter of like, well what is We
can appear to have our self worth together, but what
is actually going on beneath the surface.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And that is where I think, like this like the
soul search and commences, right, you have to like determine,
like and I'm specifically a trauma therapist, like I do EMDR,
so like sometimes happen that EMDR is an acronymic stands
for eye movement, Desensitization and reprocessing therapy. It is a
(39:22):
therapeutic model that is bottom up processing that uses bilateral
stimulation fancy word for activating both sides your brain, either
through tapping or eye movement is supposed to replicate, like
your brain when it's in rim sleep, like you know,
when your eyes are darting back and forth, because that
is theorized where memory is processed. So when you activate
(39:45):
both sides of your brain when you are going through
and processing traumatic memories. It helps you to process quicker.
So I have watched people in the span of minutes
like process like years trauma.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So when I do like what I do, like I
have seen people really go back to the route and
things come up, like memories that you don't even remember
that you remember. Like I see people go back to
the root where they were first heartbroken, where they were
first taught that they are not lovable, when they were
first rejected. You know, I've done it myself. Yeah, And
I think, like what I compel anyone who is in
(40:24):
a situation where they have been violated, their trust has
been violated, someone has like disrespected like their their trust,
go back like who taught you this first? Is this
how you want to live for the rest of your life?
I found that I do not.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, Well, when you put it like that, it in
some ways it becomes that much clearer. It's like such
a you know, like when I think, when you're navigating
the upset, it can be so grand mightey because it's
somebody you love and like we have all these years
together and it's time together, and I don't feel's. But
then when you break it down and it's like, but
(41:04):
is this how do you like, do you feel worthy
or not? Is this something that you want to put
up with for the rest of your life or not?
Is this a rupture that doesn't not even uh? Is
this a rupture that existed before you were even in
this relationship? Like is this something that needs to be
healed in you that would actually maybe move you away
(41:26):
from this person in general because it has something to
do with them? Are I think it also in many
ways gives you back the power that was taken from
you by the transgression. Absolutely, because I think that, like,
if you want to give somebody a second chance, fine,
but I feel like, do it with intention, and do
(41:48):
it with your eyes open, and do it with like
having done your work, Like, Okay, they've done what they did.
Let me take my time and figure out what the
fuck this is so that when I come back to
the table, I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
For amen, Theresa. You know I love the eyes open part.
Wi your eyes open? Yes, you hate that.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Thank you Listen, You've been eating this all the time,
so I just catch it.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Thank you for being here, thank you for having me,
Thank you bye bye.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we get out of here, let me speak
to yours ha Shahim is a true gem, a true angel,
and that conversation was just so nourishing. Some of my
favorite takeaways and reminders are, you know, no one is disposable,
(42:49):
and so as we talk about cheating or cheaters, there's
such there's you know, there's always such a black and
white binary look at it, such a moral high stance
or moral high ground about who the cheater is without
any kind of reflection or empathy. Which listen, the person
(43:12):
who's been cheated on, I'm not saying it's your time
to be empathetic, you know, like you've been violated, you've
managed that. But culturally, as we look at the conversation
around cheating and cheaters or people who have cheated, rather
instead of naming them a cheater, a person who has cheated,
(43:32):
you know, because as I'm saying that, I'm thinking about
like once a cheat, always a cheater, like that, some
of that language is really toxic because it removes the
humanity of the person. It completely ignores their history, their trauma,
their baggage. That can also be influencing the decisions that
they've made. Again, it's not to excuse it, but we
(43:54):
want to understand right, We want to have compassion and
it completely. It has a sense that, like everyone has
to be perfect right and perfection, perfectionism is a fallacy,
and so sometimes really wonderful people might cheat And I
think maybe our energy is best spent again, not if
(44:16):
you've been cheated on and you're dealing with that person,
but in general, our energy is best spent thinking about
the psychology of it, thinking about the trauma, the motives,
the reasonings, not to you know, judge and say right
or wrong, but just so that we can There's a
(44:37):
quote by the philosopher Terrence that I learned through my
Angelo that I actually put in the front of all
my scripts, and I think it's the front of my
book as well, which is I am a human being.
Thus nothing human can be alien to me. And so
I really like that is something that I live by,
which is that anything that anyone else is capable of
doing that is human. You are also capable of doing
(44:58):
that thing. You may not, you may not get to
that edge, but it doesn't mean that it's not within
your wheelhouse, and so we're best suited trying to understand
how people arrived the decisions that they arrived at. One
to have you know, love and compassion for them, but
two to prevent ourselves from doing that thing right, Like,
there's a lot that we can learn if you won't
(45:20):
be in a relationship. There's a lot you can learn
from somebody who's cheated, whether it's what not to do
or you know how to avoid the thing. But there's
a lot we can learn from each other. So no
one is disposable. Love that in general. I really also love,
you know, having a politic around dating. Yoshahim said, I
(45:41):
want to make sure I want to leave a connection
that no one has been lied to, manipulated or feels controlled.
And I love that because it really is about an intention.
What do you and and that again as Shahim, so
you know, beautifully expressed. That can be in your romantic relationship,
that can be in work family, Uh, you know, potonicallyationships.
How do you want people to feel after they've you know,
(46:04):
spent time with you? How do you want people to
feel in interactions with you? What is important to you?
I think when you know that you show up differently,
Like I know that in any interaction that I have,
I really want people to feel comfortable and safe. I
want them to feel held. And because I know that,
(46:26):
that's just how I show up. I'll show up that way,
you know, at the Walgreens with cashier, I'll show up
that way, you know, at dinner with my best friend,
I'll show up that way with the you know, the
stranger on the subway. I want everyone to when they
are interacting with me, to feel comfortable and to feel safe. Listen,
there are boundaries to this. There's context of this. Some
people you know are gon do some fuction and you
(46:48):
know whatever. But what what is always important is that
we keep our sides of the street clean, if you will,
if you'll allow me that expression transparency versus honesty. And
I talk about this a lot, you know, in terms
of polya memory. You know the importance of over communication.
But this is this works I think in anything, this
concept of in order to build trust or a great
(47:09):
way to build trust. It is not a wait for
your partner to ask you about the thing, but for
you to offer up the thing. I'm about to go
do this or I'm about to you know, go over
here or I'm seeing this right. It just helps build
trust because it allows the other person to know. I
don't ever have to go searching. I don't ever have
to go asking my partner, and our relationship is one
(47:30):
where we are transparent, where we offer these things up,
where we're not, you know, holding secrets. It doesn't mean
that you aren't allowed to have things that are private. Yeah,
there's a My therapist impressed upon me that there's a
difference between privacy and secrecy. So you are allowed to
have things that are private. I have a journal. I
have many journals. I've been writing a journal since I
(47:52):
was god a good since I was a tot, honestly,
so I have many private things that I don't have
to offer up to anyone. But there are things, and
you know, you know exactly what the things are where
you know, you know your partner would feel safer if
they knew that, then offer it. You know, there's nothing
to lose and everything to gain, which is trust. And
(48:14):
you do not have a relationship without trust, period point blank?
What else? What else? What else? Established? What cheating means
to you? I really, you know, we make a lot
of assumptions. It's honestly the same thing we do with sex,
like that thing. And you've heard us talk about this
on the show right that. I think Emilina Gosti brought
(48:35):
this up to right where she had a partner who
was doing something with her that he was doing with
another partner, and she was like, I get that you're
other partner like that, but I don't like that, right.
So I think the same thing is true here when
we're talking about cheating or any sort of expectations that
we're setting in a relationship. What might have been an
expectation in a previous relationship, what might be an expectation
(48:56):
that you've seen on television or in movies or you know,
read in a book, may not be the expectations in
your relationship. So it's really important that the two of
you or three four, however many of you are in
the relationship sit down and say, what are our expectations,
what do the like? What is our shared language? What
does cheating mean?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
To us? Is cheating?
Speaker 1 (49:17):
A DM is cheating? You know, a flirt at work
is cheating? Penetration? Like, what are we establishing as cheating?
I think is important for both of you to start
the relationship off knowing and in general like what are
the other what are the other things? You want to
make sure that you and your partner have agreed upon
(49:38):
what the shared definition of what your shared definitions are
also knowing, and I would encourage that those things get
to evolve and shift and change over time. Right, because
we're humans were and hopefully if we're doing our work,
we are growing, which means that we're going to shift
and something that might have meant might have had higher
stakes for us at the beginning of the relationship and
(50:00):
have the same intensity ten years in, right, or doesn't
have the same intensity you know, two months in, and
so being able to also check in about those expectations
and allow them to shift as need be, whether it's
to loosen or tighten. Yeah. And the final thing that
I do want to repeat is it is because you
know we've spent this episode talking about cheating. Second chances
(50:22):
are always a possibility. You can always give somebody a
second chance. People are allowed to grow, but you want
to make sure that one that person has done their
work and can and can articulate the work that they've
done and the changes that they're making and will be
making in order to earn your trust back. You want
(50:43):
to also make sure that you if you are the
person that the transgression was against. I believe I'm saying
that right, if you are the person that experienced that transgression,
you were you're impacted by that transgression. Rather, I should say,
you want to make sure that you have also done
your work, that you have taken the time that you
(51:04):
need to even understand if you want to give a
second chance, give a second chance, but make sure it
is with your eyes open, it's with intention that you
know what you're coming to the table and and you
know what your boundaries are, and you can articulate that. Right,
this is a line for me. You can't be in
(51:27):
the DMS. If you are in the DMS with other people,
then that is cause for this relationship to for me
to leave this connection, or for this relationship to come
to an end, whatever it is. Right, So, if you're
coming back income with your eyes open and also articulate
what the boundaries are, update the operating system of the relationship.
(51:48):
What are our shared definitions? What are we establishing in
this new path forward? Yeah? Yeah, ah, so I really,
really really I'm so grateful to shawhim for this conversation
and I hope that you took some stuff away from
it too, and I would love to hear from you,
so you can always you know, email me at tell
(52:10):
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
DM me on Instagram or at our tell Me Something
Messy account as well. Yeah, I would love to know
what resonates for you, what you're struggling with, what you
what are your big O moments? If you will you're
oh yeah, yeah, anyways, I love you so so much.
(52:38):
If you are enjoying this podcast and you are vibing
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(53:02):
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Speaker 2 (53:18):
And so much more.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
Also, I want to hear from you, so send your
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(53:41):
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make sure they eat the kitty before they beat the,
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(54:03):
i love, You, Hi thank you so much for listening
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(54:24):
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Speaker 2 (54:28):
Shows
Do you think giving people a second chance after cheating
is okay? Not okay? What are your feelings? What's your
stance on it?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
They will have to go about a lot of changes
to re earn that trust, and you, the person who
is violated, will have to go about a lot of
changes to open yourself back up to trusting that person.
That is a therapist answer.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Wow, that was a very great therapist answer. Okay, and
now what's your answer?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hell? Fuck?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
You know what we do here destroy shame around sex
by talking about sex. Now let me tell you something messy. Okay,
So I you know this has nothing to do with sex,
but it's my show. So sometimes the things are not
about sex, are just things that annoy me. And you
know what annoys the fuck out of me? And I
know not only one. When motherfucker's thumbs up a text.
(00:57):
One of my best friends loves a thumbs up, And
every time somebody thumbs up a text, I'm like, are
you mad?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's like when.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
People use a period, like if you use good punctuation,
like sometimes punctuation is necessary in your text. But if
you're somebody who goes hello, period, you're a serial killer. Girl,
Like what that to me feels like are you mad
at me? Are you annoyed at me? It's just not
a good time. Just like I have a friend and
she she just loves her punctuation. But for the longest
(01:25):
time I used to think she was pissed at me
because she would put a period at the end of
every fucking text message. And now my best mother best
friend thumbs up a text. I'd be like, hey, how
are you thumbs up? Okay, oh, I'm planning on and
this thing happened to thumbs up girl. If you don't
give me a heart, I need a heart, I need
an exclamation point. I'll even take a question mark if
(01:48):
you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
But a thumbs up.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That straight up disrespect. And I know I'm not the
only one who thinks this, And so this is this
is for those of us who are offended by your
motherfucking thumbs up. Anyone who knows me, Next time you
text me, and next time I text you, hearts hearts
love joy, smiley faces, a smirk, devil emoji. There's so
(02:11):
many fucking options. Don't thumbs up. I'll fucking break your
thumb Ooh that's what my mother used to say. My
mother black moms. You know, like if you be like
thumbs little birds, I'll break that finger off. And that's
how I feel. That's i'ma Actually I'm gonna text my
best friend right now. I'm gonna break your thumb off
the next time you thumbs up me and see what
he says. It's with the love. But respectfully, you know
(02:33):
what I'm saying, speaking of thumbs. Have I set this on?
I know I've said it on the internet, and I
know I've said it in shows, But have I said
on the podcast the thumb theory? Do you don't know
the thumb theory? Okay, listen, If you don't know the
thumb theory, if you if you follow me for a minute,
you probably know the thumb theory. If you don't know
the thumb theory, and if I've said it on a
previous episode, I apologize that I'm repeating it. But anyways,
(02:55):
you could tell the size of a dick, the length
with the girth by looking at us somebody's thumb. This
is science. Shut up, shut up wherever you are, shut up. Okay,
I'm telling you this is this is whole science is hology,
all right, The whole ology of a thumb is that
you can tell. Now listen, Please don't come for me,
(03:16):
because I know that there are probably some medical professionals
that do be listening to this podcast. Listen. My friend
told me this, and honestly, honestly, I've found my research,
lots and lots of research, and I have discovered that
a lot of times the thumbs be matchined. Now, some
of y'all will say, no, it doesn't listen a lot
(03:37):
of times I didn't say all the time. Okay, this
theory works a solid I'm gonna say ninety percent of
the time. Okay, is what I is what I gather
from you know, my my private research that I self
funded research that the thumb you look at it, you
could tell you know the size of it, with the
girth right, that thumb is looking, you know, thickish, maybe
(04:01):
that dick will be thickish. Okay. If that thumb is
looking long, baby, that dick is probably gonna be nice
and long. And if that thumb is looking like short,
then that dick might also be short. Do me a favor.
Look at your partner's thumbs. Okay, look at your penis
owning partner's thumbs, and then look at that penis and
(04:22):
see and tell and see if I'm correct, and I
know that I am time. So the ten percent of
you go it's not true. Respect I heard, I understand,
But there will be ninety percent of you that I're
gonna be like, yeah, messy mom was correct. By the way,
Welcome to the show. This is tell me something, Messie.
(04:44):
I'm your host, Brandon Kyle good Man. Most people call
me MESSI mom, but you could call me a hoologist. Hello. Yes, okay,
let's get this show started. Maybe you know what that means.
It's time for I guess now while they get situated
and before we do our whole manifestel and get up
(05:05):
into this messy key key a little bit of hoe keeping.
Now y'all may know by now, but maybe you knew here.
We're trying to get to our one hundred and fifty
ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts and Spotify podcast before
this month is out, because it just helps us grow
this show. It helps get you know, the We gotta
(05:26):
play with this motherfucker algorithm. You understand, So if you
have it, and I know a lot of you haven't,
because there are thousands of you here and only like ratings.
So if you haven't it, just take a second give
us that five star rating and you can write us
a little review. It doesn't have to be anything in depth.
It could literally just be like this show is lit baby, Okay,
this is the one to check out. Very simple. It
(05:48):
really again does help the show. So thank you and
time for the whole manifestel Grant me the serenity to
unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to
know that second is not just about penetration, the audacity
to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the strength to
not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl, or
(06:08):
fuck bay, for it is better to masturbate by myself
in peace than to let someone play in my motherfucker face.
Let the community say wolujah. I am so excited to
have Shahim on the show. Shahim McLaurin is a black
gender queer, licensed social worker, therapist and influencer born and
(06:29):
raised in Baltimore, Maryland, who is currently stationed in Brooklyn,
New York. With upwards of eight hundred thousand followers, Shahim
uses their platform to address a wide range of social
and mental health issues impacting people of color, patriarchy, impact
of people and members of the LGBTQ plus community. Shahim
has built a loyal community around their provision of mental
(06:52):
health advice, support and self care tips. Y'all please help me.
Welcome Shahhim Hashi. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I am fangirling. I was so excited that you're here.
I love your videos. I'm obsessed. I repost them, as
you know, I send them to people. I always feel
like you. You deliver the truth with love, compassion, but
also it's the truth. It's just like it is what
(07:25):
it is.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I'll definitely try.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You and you succeed, You succeed. Okay, before we get
into our messy gi key, here's some messy mandates. One,
things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinion shared
have the right to evolve, shift or change today, tomorrow,
ten years from now. And if during the key key
something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we use the
safe word foosball, which gives us a chance to pivot
(07:48):
and address accordingly.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Sounds nice, that sounds perfect, sounds lovely.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Shall we start with a lube breaker? Yes, it's great,
So we're gonna play around to fuck Mary block. Yes,
so fuck Mary block. Tongue in your ear, tongue in
your mouth, tongue in your ass. Oh you know you
really felt away?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Okay, Well, I will say immediately block tongue in the ear. Okay,
it does nothing for me, does nothing for me, all right.
I definitely would fuck tongue in ass, yes, and I
would marry tongue in the mouth floor Jesus.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Lord Jesus, Yes, okay, I'm with you. I'm in a
block tongue in the air. It does do something for me,
and I also does something for my boyfriend loves a
tongue in the air, and I'm so turned on when
I'm turning somebody else on. But unfortunately it doesn't do
it enough.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I'm just always like, well is it okay?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So, by the way, like, are people putting their tongue
in your ear with a with a pointy tongue, a
kermit tongue, or a flat tongue.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
It doesn't does nothing.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
For me because the pokey, the kerment that, yeah, that's
that I don't want like the sensation, but a nice
like flat Sorry, I am going to marry oh see
a tongue in the I love eating ass making out.
(09:19):
I'm gonna fun that. I'm gonna fuck the tongue in
the ass because I have nothing if we're not making out.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
This is the most interesting way I've ever started a podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Welcome to the show. I'm going to marry. I'm marry
tongue in the mouth because I always want to make
out like nothing if we're not making out.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Okay, fuck Mary block fuck Mary block. Spit play, come play, food.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Play, block food play immediately. Okay, absolutely know.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You don't want that food for the table.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Damn. The rest are tied low key for me. Okay,
so you fucking come play, Marry and come play. I'm
by that. I'll do that first.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
You're gonna marry, come play.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, because you can't do that with everybody, that's something
you got to ask. But spin, I feel like I
can do that with everybody. So I'll marry, spit play,
come play. Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I love that. Okay, I'm I'm only blocking food plate
because I haven't tried it yet, but I really I'm curious. Well,
all I've had is like a lollipop on somebody's asshole,
which I talked about way too many times. But that's
the most I've done. But I am ready to like
eat a cast roll or for somebody's titties. You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I am.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I am hungry for it, but intended, I like, really
want to eat a cast roll off some titties and
call it a day. And it's like, I don't know,
maybe I'll love it, maybe I hate it, but I'd
like to try it. But for now, you'll block. I'll
block the food blade. Look at you. You cross your legs.
You said that's very nice. I mean, judge, what maybe
if you like it, I love it, I'm going to
(11:07):
I'm going to marry, come play, and I'm gonna spit
play wise decision. I always want your cum, you know
what I'm saying. Yes, every Yeah, I don't always want
to spit, but I always want to come. Okay, Amen,
fuck Mary block metal cock ring, Prince Albert Penis Cage.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Can I block all of them?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Listen?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You can't. Oh god, it can be. It can be
a you know, okay, a temporary marriage, a short marriage,
a short session, immediate block to the Prince Albert.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, this a piercing on your pee hole.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I can't do that, but I'll marry the cock ring
and I will fuck the page.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
In the exact same way the Prince albert in theory sounds.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
But like I feels good though, huh, I it feels good.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
But I got my nipple pierced and that was enough
piercing for me. On like it hurts. By the way,
it took too long because my nipples were smaller, it
fell out. I had to have it repierced. I don't
want my Prince. If my Prince album falls out, I'm pissed.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I'm pissed.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I want to do that first round. Nah No, I
got a block, Prince Albert. I will marry a little
cock ring because you know, I'm always down to have
cock ring on. And I think a penis cach. I've
never been in the penis cage, but I find it.
I find it interesting and I'm I'm open to it,
but maybe, but I feel like it wouldn't be something
I would marry because I don't don't cage me. I
(12:42):
don't want to be a free bird.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You won the game, By the way, you don't want
any money, as I always say, you just want my
unconditional love.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So congratulations.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Don't talk to me like that. Okay, if y'all have
any uh lou breaker ideas or prompts, you can email
tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Speaking of which.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Shahim, do you want to tell me something messy? Yes,
I'm so anxious about Well, I'm not anxious. I recently
today found out that I was blocked by someone who's
a fellow content creator because of a boy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
What mean because of a boy?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well? I was fucking him first, right and they Yeah,
I'm not gonna reveal too many details because it's I
don't want I don't want to have because people could
put two and two together. I was talking first, that's it.
I was first, before they did anything got together any
of that. I was fucking a man first.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
But do you think that's a reason to be blocked.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, that's not the part. It's a more complicated story.
But I will say, you know, it was a lot
of gray area. There's a situation. I don't I don't
move that much over boys, Like why over a boy?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Over a boy? I really feel like we can have
a if we're friends, we can have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Well, we weren't really friends and you are according to me,
we weren't friends according to them.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
That's interesting. What do you classify as a friend.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Do we hang out like it could be even in
a group setting, like, or do we hang out? Do
we talk to each other like outside of running into
each other? Do you like call me? Do we like
intentionally spend time with time? Yes, if we don't do
those things and we just like are like high and
(14:43):
by when we see each other, like we're just like.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Cool, We're we're acquaintances and like I can.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Be friends with people like like more on the peripheral, Like,
but yes, if I'm not, if I don't have moments
where I'm connecting with you on an intimate level, and
every time I've seen you has been like running into
you in public, like I wouldn't necessarily classify us as friends.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I really love that you're saying this, and I think
that we need to bring bring back acquaintances because I
do think that like everybody's a friend, especially with social media, right,
like everybody is a friend. And you're like, no, you
don't even have my phone number, like you never text
to see how I'm doing. I never check up on you.
I don't know what's going on in your life if
it's not on the internet, So that wouldn't be a
(15:27):
friend to me. We're friendly, right, but we're not friends.
But but sometimes I do think people will try to
hold you to friends standards when you're only friendly, and
that gets confusing.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, well, I hope it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
You don't seem too pressed about it, but I hope
it's no you tried. I saw you look off to
try and be pressed, and you said, well, no, I'm
not gonna go there.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Do you want to do some messy mail?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Lovely? Okay, Patrons, As always, your submissions remain anonymous. So
this first one says ex's friend is hitting me up,
told myself, be the mess you wish to see in
the world.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It's on. Wow, your ex's friends are they still friends?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
The excess friend?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah? Friends still friends? That's messy me personally, like for
a fleeing maybe like And now I know people might
think that this is controversial, but like, I mean no,
because frankly, if you would do another bitch greasy, you
would do me greasy too.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, like if you had like a no attachment, you're like, ill,
fuck you, but like.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
There's no Yeah, I mean it's just a little different different,
But I would like it's more so the question around
that X in their connection to their friends. It's weird.
Why I'd be.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Curious, like why you wishing out to me? Yeah, like
that's your friend, why you reaching out?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
And then I don't want that karma.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I'm thinking of all of my uh ex's friends, like
any of them reach out to me. I'm just I
wouldn't have anything very much to say.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
You know what, I'm now that you think. I did
have one of my friends his ex reached out to
my best friend and we were all like, mmmm, coral
you played but nothing happened. But it was one of
those where like, oh, you greet your dirty for that,
Like why would you?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I actually had an ex friend reach out to an
ex of mine, like on one of the apps from
an anonymous page. That's a messy story. Mess that's messy friend.
But even it's like boy, you could have had the boy.
All you have to do is ask.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
There are also so many boys, like.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Please, it's a boy, be serious, it's a boy.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
At the end, of the day. It's a boy. Okay,
this one says, I'm happily married. However I have the
biggest gym crush and it's getting more intense. What do
I do?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Girl? Going about your day? Gone about your day, especially
if you're happily married, don't about your day. Do not
throw away your life for some fantasy.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Serious, honestly, that's that's tee, that's key. It's a fantasy.
And Jim crush fantasies are the best. And I love
a gym crush. And you have the fantasy of they've
never had a gym crush, You've never had a hold
on what do you mean you never had a Jim crush? Like,
what do you mean like or like a like a
sport crush or team crush.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
I mean I find people attractive, of course, but it's
not it's just like in passing it.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
But that's a Jim crush. I know that Jim crush
is in passing.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It's like I don't like that person is cute. Yeah,
that's a crush out of mind, don't give it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It's just somebody that you see repeatedly that you're like,
oh they're cute, like a work crush, like.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I mean, the thought comes the first time and then
it's just like, okay, yeah, are you smooth?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It just rolls off.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Is it smooth?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean, I guess like I'm I'm be pressed about
my I'd be like, look at it, I'm lifting it
a little more.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I'd be pressed. But it takes a lot to get
me there. I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
What gets you pressed, Like what does the person have
to do or how does it have to be?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I like a sensitive man?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Oh real bad, You're like a soft little tender m m.
How do you know they're sensitive? Like they they asked
you what your daying like? What what constitutes a sensitive.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Someone who is like, uh, one not afraid to express
themselves emotionally, but the full range of emotion and someone
who is like intentional about how they care for the
people around them. That turns me, oh jesus wow.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I love your standards. I love your standards. There are
never lower them. I on the other hand, I love
I do love, I do love a sensitive man. I
do have a lot of gym crushes, and I, you know,
(20:06):
a new one every time, and I kind of look
for them. I seek out a gym crush. It's just
fun to me for the hour that I'm there. I
love finding people to be attracted to. I love trying
to impress them with how run fast, how much? How
long I stay on the stairstupper because I'm not running
on nobody's trying to the stairstepper, getting of ask and
I want them to see it. But they also stressed
(20:29):
me out. I had one of my gym crushes, this
is months ago, finally walked up to me and like
said hi to me, but then he thought I was
somebody else. He thought. He was like get he like named,
He's like, You're I just I said, hey, I'm Brandon.
He was like, oh I thought you were and he
said another name.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
I was like.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Devastating him and I never did and I never did
hardly because I never saw him again. But if I did,
I would never talk to him again, because don't you
fucking my name like that. This one says my BF
cheated and I gave him a second chance, And I'm
gonna couple that with another one that says girlfriend told
(21:10):
me she wanted to just be friends with a person
and ended up fucking them while I was away, And
so I'm using both of those. So we can talk
about cheating and where should we jump into cheating? Well,
let's start with this first question, which is I gave
him a second chance. Do you think giving people a
second chance after cheating is okay?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Not?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay? What are your feelings? What's your stance on it?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Life has taught me a lot about this question. Okay.
I can give you a therapeutic answer, or I can
give you my answer. She's a therat I've learned. Here's
what I want.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I want the therapist answer first, and then I want
your answer.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Okay. So the therapist's answer is that conflict can be overcame
in any connection. It will take a lot of dedication
and a lot of rebuilding of trust, which is possible.
It just takes two people who are dedicated to doing that.
The person who committed the violation of trust, they will
have to go about a lot of changes to re
(22:10):
earn that trust, and you, the person who is violated,
will have to go about a lot of changes to
open yourself back up to trusting that person. That is
a therapist answer.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Wow, that was a very great therapist answer. Okay, And
now what's your answer?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Hell? Fuck us? Oh I will say, why is it? Hell,
don't tell me from my experience. I will say, from
my personal experience, like sometimes sometimes because I'm not going
to make too broad of us sweeping statement, sometimes you
(22:43):
give people permission to mistreat you when they get away
with it the first time. And that is a lesson
I wish I could go back and tell younger me
that is something that cheating comes from a place often
not always, but often comes from a place where a
person's integrity is not like aligned with what I like
(23:07):
a person who I'm into residence integrity to be. Yeah,
And I learned that lesson the hard way. So I
personally don't believe that a person who cares about you
will put you in a predicament where they leave you
devastated from being violated like that. Personally, yes, but I
(23:30):
would also reflect within as to why you think that
that type of treatment is treatment that you should put
up with.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Oof, I need a moment. I really dropped a lot
of bars, truly, didn't I say at the top, like,
you really really tell it like it is? I am
you know this. I'm so fascinated by cheating because I'm
(23:56):
with you. And then I also have like a curiosity
of out the cheater, because I know so often when
we talk about cheating, it's very clear, like there's a
there's a transgression that happened, there's a right and a wrong.
And I am all like, if if my best friend
got cheated on, I would absolutely say leave them in hell,
(24:17):
and actually, in fact, you go check out. I will
handle this, you know what I'm saying, Like, I I
recognize that. But then I'm also I guess there's a
side of me that is curious about the cheater why
it happened, because some people just don't give a fuck.
But then there are those cases where trauma got the
(24:38):
best of somebody, where their baggage or the the self sabotage,
the inability to hold love or retain love, the fear
of the relationship getting deeper, the fe like all those
things act up. Now, that doesn't mean that the person
who's been cheated on should give them a second chance
(24:59):
or stay like that's totally up to you. But I'm like, oh,
where is the space to have conversations about people who've cheated,
Which now leads to me, I wasn't sure I was
going to share this piece, but I cheated once. And
I have so much shame around it. I finally told
(25:19):
my husband about it. It wasn't on my husband, it
was in a previous relationship, but I I never even
told him about it. And we've been together for nine years,
and I finally told him about it a year ago.
In my defense, the context of this cheating was that
I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and I did
not know how to get out. And I remember a
friend of mine cheated on her partner who I knew,
(25:42):
and we got lunch together. We were talking about it,
and she was like, I didn't know how to get
out of the relationship, and so I cheated because I
knew there was no way to come back. And then
a year after that conversation, I found myself unable to
get out of this relationship, and so I cheated. And
I never told that partner because I didn't want. I
knew that if we were to stay together, I'm a
(26:02):
terrible liar. I'm an awful liar, so I would have
to tell him. And so my choices were to tell
him and stay or to end the relationship and get out.
I ended the relationship and I got out, but I
just like I think about I don't know, so it
just like makes me always think about cheating and why
people are cheating and is there a space to have
empathy for cheaters, And of course there is, but I
(26:25):
don't know. Now I'm just rambling about the No.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I mean, I appreciate you for being vulnerable about that. Yeah,
I think it's okay to hold both of those troops
at the same time. Right, somebody can cheat and it
can come from a place of trauma, and it is
also trauma inducing for the person on the receiving end
of Yes, right, both of those things exist at the
same time. We have a tendency to try and break
(26:51):
something down to where it can only be one truth,
but it's multiple. Do I believe that those people deserve empathy? Yeah,
I know that's controversial because a lot of people are
like cheaters are all terrible people. Yeah, And it's like, well, no,
I don't believe that people are disposable, and I believe
people can learn from these things like I've been cheated
(27:11):
on yea, and I by no means like like my
ex who cheated on me? And no, by no means,
do I have any animosity towards them, Like we've done,
all the things, we've had, all the conversations. I've moved on.
Hopefully he's moved on. Yeah, And you can grow from it,
and hopefully he has grown. He's experienced some more life
(27:34):
after our relationship. It sounds like he's grown from it,
and you know, that's great. I wish him all the best.
The trauma that I endured as a result of being
cheated on, that was even deeper because it was in
a public way. But you know, I even have like
processed that, I've like sat with it, I've grieved it,
(27:55):
I've let it go, and I'm able to like open
myself up to probably right now but for separate reasons,
but like, I was able to open myself up to
romantic connections after like and I knew that his sheeting
was a result of him feeling the pressure of the relationship.
I don't know, I was like, I'll put pressure on him,
(28:15):
but the relationship itself was pressure. We were talking about
things like marriage. It was a very public facing relationship.
That was I think his first time like experiencing having
so many eyes on him at that time, and I
think it was just hard. You have all these people
constantly throwing themselves at you because of who you're dating,
(28:37):
or like how your relationship is set up. You are
young and like all that, like, and I understand also,
like he was struggling and we had these conversations, he
was struggling to keep up with me, Like I'm a
very like you know, yeah, I'm a go get it
maybe I know here on in these streets. And you know,
(28:59):
while I would, I went really hard for our connection, Like,
it was still like intimidating for him. Yeah, it was
fucked up. That part doesn't change. But I don't think
it was coming from a place of malice to it
hurt me. He knew it was going to hurt me.
He did it anyway, So it was fucked It was
a shitty thing to do. Yeah, and I knew that
(29:20):
he truly loved and cared about me. He just did
not know how to process that. And Yeah, for that
and many other reasons, it's important that people learn how
to process and deal with their emotions and how to
communicate effectively before they hop into relationships. We all should
work on ourselves a little bit, and none of us
(29:41):
get it right all the time. And we learned through relationships,
but it's important to keep in mind that it is
a constant process of reassessing yourself and growing. And if
he had done that while we were together, if he
knew how to effectively communicate at the time, I doubt
that he would have even done that.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, I mean, would you say that. I don't know
if this is true, but I'm wondering if a lot
of cheating is a result of the inability to communicate clearly,
also the inability to process. But it's like if you
don't have I'm curious if you lack, if your communication
(30:19):
skills are rough, are you more likely to cheat? Or
it's before the communication, it's the inability to process your
emotions and then communicate, and that leads to usually.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I think it's hard to narrow it down to one
exact expression of it because some people are actually just like,
very selfish and want to have their cake and eat
and eat it too. Yeah. Some people literally couldn't emote
their way out of a paper bag, and you know, seriously,
And some people are traumatized because of how they were
(30:56):
conditioned and raised to not be able to express themselves.
They are afraid of expressing themselves and do horrible things
to people as a result.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, I learned over and over again, if you are
not somebody engaging with your emotions and trying to heal,
then you are likely going to cause problems. Not that
like people who are doing that don't also cause problems.
But I think you're able.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
To cheat it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, I cheat it back, though I don't regret that
I cheat it back.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah I sure did.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, yeah, it happens.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Right, I wouldn't do that in this current iteration of myself.
But yeah, what thank.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
You for saying it in that way, because I think
that also there are acknowledging that we are different versions
of ourselves, and so a version of yourself that wasn't
able to communicate a process or whatever made different choices
than the version that you are now. And I think
giving people this space that if they have cheated, that
they can have a runway to change. You can leave
(32:05):
them where you found them, for sure, but like understanding
that they aren't a bad person.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Can I also introduce another aspect that I think is
really important here. Right, I had to develop a politic
around dating, and I still have this politic, and although
many people do not have dating politics, it is so
important to me that when I walk away from a connection,
like I don't want that person to feel lied, to,
(32:32):
manipulate it, or controlled, so long as they don't feel
any of those things from my part, Like I feel
like I upheld my end of the deal, which requires transparency,
which is different from being just honest, like being transparent
and forthcoming with information that is pertinent to that person.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
It's transparent more so like honest is like if you
ask me a question, I answered exactly, transparent as I'm
offering exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
You don't have to go digging for information. You know
what you need to know. Yeah, and that's all trust is. Unfortunately,
it is very difficult to come across people, at least
I feel in this state that I exist in, it
is very hard to come across people who maneuver through
life in a similar way. But I think that's why
(33:15):
it's important that we have conversations like this so people know,
like you should have a politic around this stuff, like
I practice with how you approach and engage people, and
not just like romantically, but even in your platonic connections
and your business connections and all your connections, like people
should feel at least that's my goal.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I agree. I agree. I think it's like people think
they should be nice and good, but I think it's
so helpful to hear like I have a politic around
how I show up with people and articulating that so
that you can also check yourself and make sure, like
am I living up to the standards that I'm setting
(33:56):
for myself with the expectations that I have for myself.
Both of these people who're written on have been cheated on.
So we've talked about the cheater and trying to make
space for you know, empathy around why somebody cheats. But
then if you've been cheated on, what is the I
(34:18):
guess what is the context in what you take somebody
back or what is what do you think that person
should be considering if they are thinking about a second chance.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Well, I will say, like cheating even looks different in
every connection, Like there are people who are even cool
like probably people who are cool with like seeing multiple people. Yes, right,
but if you don't communicate or express that like and
you do it like in a way that is behind
the person's fact, that's cheating in that connection. Right, Yes,
So first, like you should establish what cheating means and
(34:49):
your connection, and I think a lot of people to
the credit, I think a lot of people do it,
but I think there are enough people that don't wear it.
There's often like a lot of clashing when it comes
to like figuring out what that means. I like to
have conversations very early in relationships about what that looks
like in that So.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
I've never done that, but I think that's so like
what do we do? What do we in this relationship
define cheating ass because some people say, oh, you're dming.
Somebody is cheating to me, and some people say, I
don't give a fuck about your DMS.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, but like.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Knowing that is so important, Okay, yes, great, So defining.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
That yeah, and like part of like and I'm really
big on this, like shared definitions, Like it's how we
keep each other accountable, Like if you know what is happening,
Like if we both agree that this is the thing,
if you violate that thing that we both define, then
you are like violating the contract clear and like when
(35:46):
it comes to repair after rupture. For me, one thing
that is really really important is remorse. And I like,
I trust me. I've had these conversations with Jesus. If
somebody violates my trust. One, are they remorseful? Yeah, And
expressing remorse is just the first step. What are they
(36:07):
willing to do to remedy? Like what what harm they've caused? Like,
how are they willing to change behavior? Or what are
they willing to like to do in order to like
basically address the rupture that they caused. Are they actually
putting in the effort to do that? Yeah? Yeah, and
you should not. My own personal experience has taught me this.
(36:29):
So this is my opinion. You don't have to live
by this. But I feel like I should never have
to instruct someone like or like prompt someone to try
and repair connection, because if that person is not eager
to try and do that on their own, that is
enough of a sign.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
You doin that that makes sense, that's fair. Like if
they violated something, they know they violated something, they need
to come kiss the ring if you will not, even
like they need to be showing remorse and proactive about
the repair that it's not on the person who's been
violated shoulders to be like, this is how we repair this?
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, do the work. And what I will say is
and it's really hard, and trust me, I've been on
the receiving end of this, and it has been really difficult,
and I didn't walk away in instances where I should have.
You really do have to dig deep, deep, deep, deep
down and try and find like that like self worth
(37:31):
when it comes to navigating these situations. Yeah, because ultimately,
like why why are you accept if a person is
not doing the things to try and repair, why are
you accepting this behavior? Right? But also like when you
take someone back if they violate again, like the behavior
didn't change. Yeah, just saying.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
It's like I thought about like the Maya Angela quote
when somebody shows you who they are believed in the
first time, which kind of goes against the second chance
thing because there's a space in which you have empathy
and say, okay, like my partner was experiencing S Y
and Z, and I understand why they did it, and
so like I can give them a second chance, but
then if they do it again, then it's like, well,
(38:15):
the thing is a thing.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Love Cardi for example, Cardi B like she put up
with a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
I think about her often in this topic because I'm like,
oh wow, this like I think about her specifically because
you see her as this what she is. She's on
top of her game, incredibly powerful, beautiful, funny, talented, but
there is this cycle in which she is.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
It can happen to any other of us.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
We're all in our we can all be in our cycles,
and hopefully, I don't know, hopefully there's amends to be made.
But if we continue to go back into the cycle,
then it's a matter of like, well what is We
can appear to have our self worth together, but what
is actually going on beneath the surface.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And that is where I think, like this like the
soul search and commences, right, you have to like determine,
like and I'm specifically a trauma therapist, like I do EMDR,
so like sometimes happen that EMDR is an acronymic stands
for eye movement, Desensitization and reprocessing therapy. It is a
(39:22):
therapeutic model that is bottom up processing that uses bilateral
stimulation fancy word for activating both sides your brain, either
through tapping or eye movement is supposed to replicate, like
your brain when it's in rim sleep, like you know,
when your eyes are darting back and forth, because that
is theorized where memory is processed. So when you activate
(39:45):
both sides of your brain when you are going through
and processing traumatic memories. It helps you to process quicker.
So I have watched people in the span of minutes
like process like years trauma.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So when I do like what I do, like I
have seen people really go back to the route and
things come up, like memories that you don't even remember
that you remember. Like I see people go back to
the root where they were first heartbroken, where they were
first taught that they are not lovable, when they were
first rejected. You know, I've done it myself. Yeah, And
I think, like what I compel anyone who is in
(40:24):
a situation where they have been violated, their trust has
been violated, someone has like disrespected like their their trust,
go back like who taught you this first? Is this
how you want to live for the rest of your life?
I found that I do not.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, Well, when you put it like that, it in
some ways it becomes that much clearer. It's like such
a you know, like when I think, when you're navigating
the upset, it can be so grand mightey because it's
somebody you love and like we have all these years
together and it's time together, and I don't feel's. But
then when you break it down and it's like, but
(41:04):
is this how do you like, do you feel worthy
or not? Is this something that you want to put
up with for the rest of your life or not?
Is this a rupture that doesn't not even uh? Is
this a rupture that existed before you were even in
this relationship? Like is this something that needs to be
healed in you that would actually maybe move you away
(41:26):
from this person in general because it has something to
do with them? Are I think it also in many
ways gives you back the power that was taken from
you by the transgression. Absolutely, because I think that, like,
if you want to give somebody a second chance, fine,
but I feel like, do it with intention, and do
(41:48):
it with your eyes open, and do it with like
having done your work, Like, Okay, they've done what they did.
Let me take my time and figure out what the
fuck this is so that when I come back to
the table, I'm doing it.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
For amen, Theresa. You know I love the eyes open part.
Wi your eyes open? Yes, you hate that.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Thank you Listen, You've been eating this all the time,
so I just catch it.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Thank you for being here, thank you for having me,
Thank you bye bye.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we get out of here, let me speak
to yours ha Shahim is a true gem, a true angel,
and that conversation was just so nourishing. Some of my
favorite takeaways and reminders are, you know, no one is disposable,
(42:49):
and so as we talk about cheating or cheaters, there's
such there's you know, there's always such a black and
white binary look at it, such a moral high stance
or moral high ground about who the cheater is without
any kind of reflection or empathy. Which listen, the person
(43:12):
who's been cheated on, I'm not saying it's your time
to be empathetic, you know, like you've been violated, you've
managed that. But culturally, as we look at the conversation
around cheating and cheaters or people who have cheated, rather
instead of naming them a cheater, a person who has cheated,
(43:32):
you know, because as I'm saying that, I'm thinking about
like once a cheat, always a cheater, like that, some
of that language is really toxic because it removes the
humanity of the person. It completely ignores their history, their trauma,
their baggage. That can also be influencing the decisions that
they've made. Again, it's not to excuse it, but we
(43:54):
want to understand right, We want to have compassion and
it completely. It has a sense that, like everyone has
to be perfect right and perfection, perfectionism is a fallacy,
and so sometimes really wonderful people might cheat And I
think maybe our energy is best spent again, not if
(44:16):
you've been cheated on and you're dealing with that person,
but in general, our energy is best spent thinking about
the psychology of it, thinking about the trauma, the motives,
the reasonings, not to you know, judge and say right
or wrong, but just so that we can There's a
(44:37):
quote by the philosopher Terrence that I learned through my
Angelo that I actually put in the front of all
my scripts, and I think it's the front of my
book as well, which is I am a human being.
Thus nothing human can be alien to me. And so
I really like that is something that I live by,
which is that anything that anyone else is capable of
doing that is human. You are also capable of doing
(44:58):
that thing. You may not, you may not get to
that edge, but it doesn't mean that it's not within
your wheelhouse, and so we're best suited trying to understand
how people arrived the decisions that they arrived at. One
to have you know, love and compassion for them, but
two to prevent ourselves from doing that thing right, Like,
there's a lot that we can learn if you won't
(45:20):
be in a relationship. There's a lot you can learn
from somebody who's cheated, whether it's what not to do
or you know how to avoid the thing. But there's
a lot we can learn from each other. So no
one is disposable. Love that in general. I really also love,
you know, having a politic around dating. Yoshahim said, I
(45:41):
want to make sure I want to leave a connection
that no one has been lied to, manipulated or feels controlled.
And I love that because it really is about an intention.
What do you and and that again as Shahim, so
you know, beautifully expressed. That can be in your romantic relationship,
that can be in work family, Uh, you know, potonicallyationships.
How do you want people to feel after they've you know,
(46:04):
spent time with you? How do you want people to
feel in interactions with you? What is important to you?
I think when you know that you show up differently,
Like I know that in any interaction that I have,
I really want people to feel comfortable and safe. I
want them to feel held. And because I know that,
(46:26):
that's just how I show up. I'll show up that way,
you know, at the Walgreens with cashier, I'll show up
that way, you know, at dinner with my best friend,
I'll show up that way with the you know, the
stranger on the subway. I want everyone to when they
are interacting with me, to feel comfortable and to feel safe. Listen,
there are boundaries to this. There's context of this. Some
people you know are gon do some fuction and you
(46:48):
know whatever. But what what is always important is that
we keep our sides of the street clean, if you will,
if you'll allow me that expression transparency versus honesty. And
I talk about this a lot, you know, in terms
of polya memory. You know the importance of over communication.
But this is this works I think in anything, this
concept of in order to build trust or a great
(47:09):
way to build trust. It is not a wait for
your partner to ask you about the thing, but for
you to offer up the thing. I'm about to go
do this or I'm about to you know, go over
here or I'm seeing this right. It just helps build
trust because it allows the other person to know. I
don't ever have to go searching. I don't ever have
to go asking my partner, and our relationship is one
(47:30):
where we are transparent, where we offer these things up,
where we're not, you know, holding secrets. It doesn't mean
that you aren't allowed to have things that are private. Yeah,
there's a My therapist impressed upon me that there's a
difference between privacy and secrecy. So you are allowed to
have things that are private. I have a journal. I
have many journals. I've been writing a journal since I
(47:52):
was god a good since I was a tot, honestly,
so I have many private things that I don't have
to offer up to anyone. But there are things, and
you know, you know exactly what the things are where
you know, you know your partner would feel safer if
they knew that, then offer it. You know, there's nothing
to lose and everything to gain, which is trust. And
(48:14):
you do not have a relationship without trust, period point blank?
What else? What else? What else? Established? What cheating means
to you? I really, you know, we make a lot
of assumptions. It's honestly the same thing we do with sex,
like that thing. And you've heard us talk about this
on the show right that. I think Emilina Gosti brought
(48:35):
this up to right where she had a partner who
was doing something with her that he was doing with
another partner, and she was like, I get that you're
other partner like that, but I don't like that, right.
So I think the same thing is true here when
we're talking about cheating or any sort of expectations that
we're setting in a relationship. What might have been an
expectation in a previous relationship, what might be an expectation
(48:56):
that you've seen on television or in movies or you know,
read in a book, may not be the expectations in
your relationship. So it's really important that the two of
you or three four, however many of you are in
the relationship sit down and say, what are our expectations,
what do the like? What is our shared language? What
does cheating mean?
Speaker 2 (49:15):
To us? Is cheating?
Speaker 1 (49:17):
A DM is cheating? You know, a flirt at work
is cheating? Penetration? Like, what are we establishing as cheating?
I think is important for both of you to start
the relationship off knowing and in general like what are
the other what are the other things? You want to
make sure that you and your partner have agreed upon
(49:38):
what the shared definition of what your shared definitions are
also knowing, and I would encourage that those things get
to evolve and shift and change over time. Right, because
we're humans were and hopefully if we're doing our work,
we are growing, which means that we're going to shift
and something that might have meant might have had higher
stakes for us at the beginning of the relationship and
(50:00):
have the same intensity ten years in, right, or doesn't
have the same intensity you know, two months in, and
so being able to also check in about those expectations
and allow them to shift as need be, whether it's
to loosen or tighten. Yeah. And the final thing that
I do want to repeat is it is because you
know we've spent this episode talking about cheating. Second chances
(50:22):
are always a possibility. You can always give somebody a
second chance. People are allowed to grow, but you want
to make sure that one that person has done their
work and can and can articulate the work that they've
done and the changes that they're making and will be
making in order to earn your trust back. You want
(50:43):
to also make sure that you if you are the
person that the transgression was against. I believe I'm saying
that right, if you are the person that experienced that transgression,
you were you're impacted by that transgression. Rather, I should say,
you want to make sure that you have also done
your work, that you have taken the time that you
(51:04):
need to even understand if you want to give a
second chance, give a second chance, but make sure it
is with your eyes open, it's with intention that you
know what you're coming to the table and and you
know what your boundaries are, and you can articulate that. Right,
this is a line for me. You can't be in
(51:27):
the DMS. If you are in the DMS with other people,
then that is cause for this relationship to for me
to leave this connection, or for this relationship to come
to an end, whatever it is. Right, So, if you're
coming back income with your eyes open and also articulate
what the boundaries are, update the operating system of the relationship.
(51:48):
What are our shared definitions? What are we establishing in
this new path forward? Yeah? Yeah, ah, so I really,
really really I'm so grateful to shawhim for this conversation
and I hope that you took some stuff away from
it too, and I would love to hear from you,
so you can always you know, email me at tell
(52:10):
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
DM me on Instagram or at our tell Me Something
Messy account as well. Yeah, I would love to know
what resonates for you, what you're struggling with, what you
what are your big O moments? If you will you're
oh yeah, yeah, anyways, I love you so so much.
(52:38):
If you are enjoying this podcast and you are vibing
with me and our guests, please please please do not
forget to rate and review and subscribe to the podcast.
Give us this five stars, write us a little. That
show is so good. Y'all should check it out. Also
send it to your group chat, send it to people
who you think would also vibe. Spread the mess really
(53:02):
helps the show. You can find me on Instagram as
well at Brandon Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast
at tell Me Something Messy, and you can join our
community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll
get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
And so much more.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
Also, I want to hear from you, so send your
topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas
to tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You
can also call us at six six nine sixty nine
Messy That is six six' nine six ninety six three
seven seven, Nine rate, review and share this podcast with
(53:41):
all YOUR hoe and ASPIRING hoe. Friends really really helps
the show, out all, Right until next, time ask about
the politics of that dick before you make it, spit
make sure they eat the kitty before they beat the,
kitty before fuckation or succation. Communication and in case you
haven't heard it, yet today you are so deeply. LOVED
(54:03):
i love, You, Hi thank you so much for listening
to Tell Me Something. Messy if you all enjoyed the,
show send the episode to someone else who might like.
It Tell Me Something messy was executive produced By Ali,
Perry Gabrielle, collins And Yours. Truly our producer and editor
Is Vince. Dejohnny for more podcasts From iHeartRadio And The Outspoken,
(54:24):
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