Perfectionism and F*ck Buddies w/ Ian Paget

Actor and social media personality, Ian Paget, joins Brandon for a full-on kiki including everything from sex parties to Sex And The City. Ian shares a story of a sexual experience that left him in a vulnerable position, then he and Brandon differentiate between f*ck buddies and hookups. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I haven't heard the term fuck, buddy said, I don't
really want. I mean, that's such a very millennial thing.
Yeah right, you know, but I mean it's true it
was used, and like it's why it was so helpful.
It's because, oh, you just have these people connection. Yes,
Like it wasn't it wasn't that deep.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
It wasn't that he was hopefully do you know what
we do here? Destroy shame around sex by talking about sex. Now,
let me tell you something messy. I went to a
sex party, which you know, if you've been here with me,

(00:35):
you know that I go to those, but this one
was with predominantly straight people. Well, I guess here's what
I'll say. I think a lot of the women were queer,
but a lot of the men were not. And it
was very exciting because a friend of mine had been
inviting me to this same sex party that my girlfriend
had been inviting me to, and he was saying that

(00:57):
he started as kind of collective of of queer men,
male bodies who are exploring their sexuality and kind of
join this straight sex party because the whole point of
the sex party is not to just fuck, but to
like intentionally connect. This is what I loved about it

(01:17):
is that it's a sober sex party, so there's no alcohol,
no drugs of any kind. The point being that everyone knows,
everyone can consent enthusiastically or knows what's happening with their body,
which I love. And then there's also like a whole
facilitation of how you meet people and like a little
bit of activities in the beginning before you know, the
sex happens. It was fantastic. So we show up I

(01:41):
thin gut somewhere on the East Side, this beautiful, beautiful, beautiful,
big ass house. You arrive at the gate, there were
these two women in their lingerie and their rooms, checking
me and my boyfriend who came with me in, and
they were, of course so friendly, and I immediately instinctually

(02:02):
became gayer because I just wanted to be like, hi, like,
you know, I'm here for the dick, but like they're
very nice. We hugged, you know, and they like they
handed you like a card, a different colored card which
would be used for facilitation. And so then you go
in and it was like, you know, think about your
favorite celebrities mansion. It's like that situation, but like covered

(02:25):
in people who are in various states of undress, lots
of beautiful women in their you know, lingerie men in
various states of undressed as well, just kind of roaming
around and talking. It was transformative, I mean, from having
a full on conversation about what concept looks like, what
the rules and boundaries are, to these kinky performances. One

(02:49):
performance is I don't even know what you would call him,
but basically he male and his partner female has her
like blindfolded and then she like it's naked and he's
like tying her up, and then at some point fire
is introduced, like and also like I want to say knives,

(03:09):
but like you know, like the I don't know what
they're actually called, but they look like a wolverine knife
that he's like dragging up and down her body and
she's in a state of ecstasy. And I was so
intrigued by the fire. My boyfriend was like, could never
that's crazy, But I'm the pleasure and sensation of the
heat h so sexy. At the end of it, you know,

(03:31):
everyone's applauding because what a fabulous performance. But what I
love is that the guy says, do you want to
ask her any questions? Do you want to make sure
that she's okay, which I loved, and you asked her
and she enthusiastically what yes, And it was just fabulous.
And then like the evening be commences and there are
different like rooms that have different like programs going on, uh,

(03:51):
and then there is like the kind of open floor
of whatever you want to do. So the evening commences
and people are doing, you know, going into their different programs,
and me and Bun are just kind of mosey and
because we're just unsure of how to find our footing
in this predominantly straight space. I also had an experience

(04:12):
during one of the like uh interactive uh when they're
you know, getting to know you situations where I was
paired with a gentleman and I didn't know that he
was queer or straight or whatever, but you're supposed to
like do this like contact improv and I noticed that
he was just like so stiff, wouldn't look me in

(04:33):
the eye. And I was like, I like like reiterate, Hey,
are you okay with the touching or ukay through whatever?
He's like yeah, And like there was just like kind
of like this wall.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
And then like the facilitator said okay, two. Now the
couple of two can become a couple of four, and
so we became four with these two ladies, and suddenly
there he was right, and I was like, Oh, you're straight,
and you're uncomfortable with this male to male interaction, which
then kind of bummed me out because then I was like, Oh,

(05:03):
are all the males in here uncomfortable with male to
male interaction. I'm interacted with females. I have no intention
of eating or touching Adye pussy tonight, but I'm still
able to show up. I feel comfortable showing up for
my female partners, but I wasn't sure if the male
partners would be comfortable showing up for other male partners,
and so it just kind of dampened the evening a
little bit, but it was still a fabulous time. There

(05:26):
was a moment where Bunn and I were like lying
on a couch in the middle of the living room,
which is also a dance floor, and then suddenly next
to us people are getting flogged, and then suddenly like
one person's being flogged, and then two people, and then
three people are being flogged, and then somebody's eating pussy. Right,
says were like should we get up. Anyways, it was

(05:49):
a fabulous time, a lot of great things. I wouldn't
go back to this particular party because I do think
that there is a way in which you have to
curate an event that has mixed sexual orientations so that
everyone feels safe and comfy. But what I couldn't stop
thinking was a party like this with all queer folks,

(06:12):
and I mean across any kind of gender expression, but
all queer folks at this kind of sober although that
might allow a little cannabis sexual exploration party, would be
transformative because what I really loved about this space was
that I really felt like the women were in charge.

(06:32):
I really felt like the women were in full charge
of how this space worked, and so it created a
very safe, loving, warm energy. Even though I wasn't able
to participate, I still felt this container was safe, and
so if that space can be safe for sis queer

(06:55):
straight women, then I would imagine being able to create
that space for just queer folks in general would also
be transformative. So all that to say, I'm gonna I'm
gonna plan my own little queer sex party and will
you be invited? Yeah, by the way, welcome to the show.
This is telling me something. You messy. I am your host,

(07:16):
Brandon Kyle Goodmante. Some people call me messy mother, and
you could call me the hostess with the mostess and
you know how that's spelled h G A u X hostess. Okay, period,
you know what that means. It's time for I guess
now while they get situated, I actually want to catch
up with y'all on the Messy Challenge. So if you

(07:38):
listened last week, I propose that we do this Messy
Challenge one week of not talking about bodies, others or
our own. So I'm just gonna give a little update
about how it went for me terribly and I mean
like it wasn't terrible, it was. It was, uh it
was as I expected, which it was hard not because

(07:59):
you know, it's not about critical about other people's bodies.
That is easy. I you know, I think everybody's body
is gorgeous. It was just not talking about bodies, period.
So because it was whether it's positive or negative, not mentioning.
And it's really I found it easy to not to
not like prompt a conversation about somebody's body. That was
really simple to me. But when I was when somebody

(08:22):
was talking to me about bodies and then figuring out
how to navigate that. It was hardest at the gym
because obviously that makes sense where people are there working out,
and it is a space that centers around your body,
and so the first thing just kind of by default
that people are saying is you look good. Oh my god,
your arms and wow, look at that button. You know,

(08:43):
we're just like talking a people's bodies, And so I
found it sometimes hard. One person, I think, said to me,
you look you look good or whatever, and I was
about to be like Youla and I said, you are gorgeous,
like did that thing where I just like reframed it.
But I did find it difficult. But also I guess

(09:04):
after a couple days it became a little easier because
I started to because I started to be able to
identify when body comes up, when those conversations come up.
Because I don't know if you noticed this for yourself,
but for me, it was like, oh, it comes up
either with the same people or in the same locations

(09:25):
and environments. And so if I know that, if I
had that information, then I can show up differently in
this space with kind of preparation for how I want
to engage in that conversation. And by the way, the
goal is to not never talk about bodies. Obviously, you know,
we have these things and we're going to talk about them.
But I think it's raising your awareness about how much

(09:46):
you're talking about it and in what ways you're talking
about it. I did have a couple moments in the
mirror with myself where I was like looking at myself
and then you know, becoming hypercritical and then interrupting it
with like, girl, you're fine, you are beautiful, you are wonderful,
you are sweet and kind you you know, you woke

(10:06):
up today, you're breathing, bitch, like be thankful for all
these other things. Uh, and also then being curious about like, well,
why are you hyper focusing on you know, that pimple
or that thing or whatever it is, and then once
being able to trace that back to you, Oh well,
I just you know, watched the show when I saw

(10:28):
this personal and I really want to kind of look
like them, or you know, I saw somebody else talking
about their pimples and it got me thinking about my
pimples again. It's just like, Okay, then you can check
that off. That's not that's not yours to own, that's
not yours to dive into. So I'm gonna keep I'm
gonna go for another week, uh, with this intentional not

(10:49):
talking about my body or other bodies. Uh. And I
would love for you to join me. If you want to,
and I still want to hear from you, you can email me,
tell me something messy at gmail dot com or dm
me and let me know how it's going, what you're learning,
or what you're you know, what you're coming up against
or what's frustrating. But I'm really, I'm really appreciative of

(11:10):
the opportunity to examine this part of my I was
gonna say personality, but is it my existence or my
y'all know? I love to figure out what words I
want to use this part of my operating system. Yes,
that feels better. I'm really excited to examine this part
of my operating system and what parts of this are

(11:30):
so defaulted and so indoctrinated and so just kind of
a knee jerk reaction as opposed to really my own thoughts,
really my own feelings, really my own wants or desires.
Being able to parse through that I find to be
quite empowering and liberating. So okay, I think our guests

(11:53):
is situated. Shall we do our whole manifest sell? Repeat
after me? Allowed or in your hand. Grant me the
serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the
wisdom to know that sex is not just about penetration,
the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries. The
strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl,

(12:14):
or fuck bay, for it is better to masturbate by
myself in peace than to let someone play in my
motherfucker face that the community say wolujah. I am so
excited to have Ian Paget on the show. Ian Paget
is an actor, content creator, and social media personality with

(12:34):
a knack for blending humor, vulnerability, and storytelling. As the
co host of the hit podcast Tres Lechez, who brings
his audience laughs, real talk, and the occasional spicy take.
Ian made his Broadway debut fresh out of college in
Mamma Mia and went on to start in three Broadway shows,
appearing in TV hits like Saturday Night Live and Lip

(12:55):
Sync Battle as a dancer, and even showed off his
moves in the film rock of ages. Ian's authenticity and
humor have earned him a loyal fan base and a
Glad Queer Advocate nomination for his work amplifying LGBTQ plus voices.
Y'all please help me. Welcome Yan Hi, Hi, welcome to

(13:17):
the show.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be I'm.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
So happy you're here. Okay, before we dive into the
key key, because you know you and I can key key,
let me give you some messy mandates. Okay, cool, So
things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinion shared
have the right to evolve, shift, or change today, tomorrow
or ten years from now. And if during the key key,
something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we used to

(13:40):
say word foosball, which gives us a chance to pause
and address for pivot accordingly. Okay, sound good?

Speaker 4 (13:45):
I love that, gorgeous?

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Shall we foosball? Yeah? Because why we ever say football
in this context?

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, yeah, you know, so if you say it, I'm like, okay, cool,
we gotta stop, we gotta deal. Okay, shall we start
with a lube breaker?

Speaker 4 (13:57):
I love that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Absolutely, Okay, We're gonna play a game of smash or pass.
All right, so smash or pass.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Car sex smash smash Yeah really not while it's moving.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
No, no, no, no, I mean I guess there's some people
have that, but that's if you're in the backseat and
somebody's friendly driving. I don't know, but RoadHead dangerous.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
I'm very I'm very h buttoned up about certain things,
and and the button up is just like I just
don't like people seeing something, got it? And then yeah,
that's why I'm like, it would have to be like
I'd have to be the only one in the car,
said person, and it would have to be stationary. Or

(14:38):
if we're talking a moving train car, that's different, very different,
very different.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Wow, like a Harry Potter train car. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
midnight exprass h yeah yeah all that I car. The
car is just too small. I'm like at the body, like.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
Where you need like an X five or something.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Do you need something to which could be hot?

Speaker 1 (14:59):
But I don't By that point, you're like, let's just
be in Yeah, but there is something nice to kind
of the setting.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
Is it like am I being dropped off at home?

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Hey? Like we're leaving a hang and like I don't
know something happens. Yes, just at the the uncomfortable like
effort you have to put in is actually what kind
of makes it like hot, kind of hot. Yeah, it's
not so comfy and like okay, parked the car and like,
but it's only hot because it's in this moment.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah. Yeah, Like I feel like it'd be hot depending
on the scenario. Like I I know that we can
just go to the apartment or the house, saying apartment,
fucking New Yorker at the apartment. But if you're like
we just met and we'll never see each other again
and we're in this car and that's kind of it,
then I.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Feel like, let's have the scene stay here.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, then that's that's hot to me. Okay, when it's
a smash pass, I call it a smass, So it's
a smass for me. Okay, I like that hip red
this next one. I know your answer because of what
you just said, but let me ask you anyways, smash
for pass orgies, Yes, yeah, yeah, you want to be
a watch.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, And like I'm just very selective about like how
I spend my energy with friends in my day to day,
like in a sexual place, Like I want to feel
explorational and free. Yeah, but I yeah, it would know
that's not it would have to be like people I know,

(16:23):
or like I don't know's there's.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
A scenario in which it might work.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Out right, and I probably can't fathom it yet, which
is if you're asking me the ones I'm fathoming I
don't want.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, yes, but your heart is open.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, okay, I'm not judging about them. I think yeah
so hot. Yes, I hope everyone else is smashing, but
I passed you pass.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I love that I am. I'm a smash on orgies.
But I'm with you in very particular about the setup,
the scenario. Who's there all that stuff? Because there's because
you're absorbing a lot of energy, Yeah, no matter what,
like where humans were exchanging energy and that's a lot
of energy, and like I don't want everybody's energy. Man. Yeah,
so I'm with you. Okay. Last one and special past

(17:05):
spanking in what sexual sense?

Speaker 4 (17:09):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Huh you know the couple times Oh sorry, let me
anthel pass just and I'm going off of like one
time it happened and.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
It like it hurt you.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
I was spank and I was just like that hurt
and it took me out of it. I was like, oh,
Like I was like, I don't care. That is not
and I have a good tolerance for pain, dancer and
just I don't know, I'm asa chist like but that
I'm a little bit more like tender.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, was it a hard spank?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
It was hard, which was the I guess like that's
what he was giving. So I was like, okay, so accurate.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
But it was it julted.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah, it was just like it just hurt and it lingered.
That's like you hear it and you're like, you're like,
but it's this there there, you know.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
And then I'm a little like then I'm all of
a sudden starting to like second guess you.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
As all of us.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
It's just oh yes, hell now And while I'm not judging,
I'm just kind of like, now my brain is somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Well, now you're worried about like, are you gonna have
another moment that's going to take you out? Yeah, and
so now you're like out of it. That makes sense. Yeah,
I am a I'm a smass because I think it depends,
like I love to spank and be spank. I don't
want a series of spank. Yeah, but like when it's correct,
it's beautiful.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
When it's wrong, it is wrong, like it's like bad. Yeah,
so that's why it's a smass.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah yeah, I think. I think if there was a
smack and then.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
Like you you you you.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Stayed there, if you did like a pat that I
mean to hurt my Yes, so imagine that's me in control.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
It's the it's the whole, that's it. That's actually I
gotta try that if you like spank and a hold.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Because if you spank and you let it grow, it's
like your it feels like I'm.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Which I get some people are like that. Yeah, sure,
I get it. I like that, but I I do
not like that spanking. Yeah you know what if like.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
So sorry, was it a hand or was it a paddle?

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Was that a hand?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Hand? Okay, I've had a paddle, but that also tends
to leave the the reverberation.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
You also know you knew, I'm assuming he was the
paddle was yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yes, it was like a paddle. It was like a
blind it was the whole situation. Yeah yeah, yeah, which, yeah,
I think like I was blindfolded and all fours and
it was a paddle, which there are moments that I
enjoyed it, in moments where I was like.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
That's yeah, yeah, so net good net good?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Right? Yeah yeah yeah. By the way, you won the game,
Oh great? Yes, there's no money. You just want unconditional love.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
What I like?

Speaker 4 (19:53):
What do you like winning?

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yes, well you won. I like to give you the wins. Okay.
If you have any prompts for you know, well, alu breaker,
you can email tell me something messy at gmail dot com.
Speaking of which, can you tell me something messy?

Speaker 4 (20:07):
Ooh yeah, I was thinking about this.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
It's just like a fun story of mine that, like
I always forget, is just shows a little bit of
my like yeah, because again I'm like, I think people
think I'm already put together, but here's a story of me.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Not being very put together.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Bring it.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
I was in Mama Me on Broadway and it was
my Broadway debut, one of the best experiences of my life.
I was lucky enough to be there for two years.
And we had a five show weekend, which means like
five show weekend, five show weekend, which means you have
a show on Friday night, you have two shows on Saturday,
and two shows on Sunday. Sometimes the schedule can be
different where you just have one on Friday to Saturday

(20:44):
one Sunday.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Is that an addition to the rest of the week.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
No, No, it's just the the schedule can be. You
might not be doing two on Wednesday. If you just
do that one on Wednesday, then you're doing two on Sunday.
They just move one over. And so the reason why
this is important is because I went out on a
Saturday night and I forget what the party was, but
I spent the night with someone and I woke up

(21:10):
the next day and I looked at my clock and
I was like, oh, like I thought I was still dreaming,
and it was like one, fourteen one, fourteen, one, twelve,
like I remember those numbers. And I was just like
I was cold, and I didn't like his apartment because
I was like it's it wasn't very comfy. But I
just remembered the feeling of like uncomfortable going back to

(21:31):
bed like that can't like I'm dreaming still.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
And then I was like, no, that was you waking
up Ian And then I.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Was like, oh, it's oh my god. I was like, wait,
I have two shows. I have have to be at
half hour in fifteen minutes, and I got fourteenth between
eighth and ninth.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Oh my god, freaking out has never happened to me.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I mean, it was just one of those moments where
you were like, I'm gonna get in trouble, I'm gonna
lose my job or like people, all these things, and
so I got up, but I still couldn't believe it.
I was still like there's no way, but it was
very way and very happening, and I was like, oh,
you have to do is just get in a cab, Like, oh,
you'll get there in ten twelve minutes. Yeah, I get
in a cab. But from on fourteenth growing up eighth Ave,

(22:10):
which was crazy, that's insane.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
It was. It was like, well to wall traffic.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I call my stage manager and I'm like, hey, Sherry,
Sherry Cohen, who was like my mom.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
I was like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Gonna be late, but i'll be there. I'll be there,
but just want to let you know. She's like, okay,
like cool, thank you for letting us know possible. But
then we're sitting in traffic even more and then I'm
like I call her back.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
I'm like Sherry, I'm in a cab. She goes, why
are you in a cab?

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Because she knows where I live because I used to
live in Midtown and that's what I just had apart
memory during the show.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, so she was like, why aren't you cab?

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Because I the initial lie was I'm on fifteenth, I'll
be right there. I just thought I was going to
move fast, so I said from where I live, which
was fifty first and tenth. I was like, I'm just walking,
but like, i'll be right there, like I'm in a cab.
She's like, wait, why did you get in a cab?
You're only two avenues away. I'm like, and I start crying.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
I'm like it's because I'm not two anues away. I'm
on fourteen, Like I don't know if i'm and she's like, okay,
we're putting Tony on. And I was.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Freaking out and I thought there's just no way, like
I just didn't know what would happen, didn't know what
would happen.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
And then I was like, what do I do?

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Like and she was like, just don't worry about Tony
will be on with you at the next show. And
then I was like, well that's that feels like punishment,
like don't even come to the building or something like
because but they don't need me.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
We'll see you the next show.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Correct, So go enjoy your time off. But in that
time off, you're like what is and you're just like,
oh my god, like what is?

Speaker 4 (23:38):
What is? What are my cast?

Speaker 1 (23:40):
And of course I'm texting some of them, and I'm
like telling a few like this is what's going on?

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Did you tell them you were spent the night with?

Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, And I was just like I just didn't think
about it, like I don't know my brain. And so
I get to work and I'm humiliated, like I'm just
so embarrassed because it's like just it's.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
Just one of those funny thing.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
And then I'm like, what is what is Andy Fencon,
my stage manager, going to say to me like I'm
going to have be talked to. And I get up
there and Sherry just kind of looks at me and
she's like hello, and I'm like him like in the
roly chair, and Andy just he's got he's got like
this pointy face, dry brit Yeah, he's like six three,

(24:21):
fatherly but also very very stern, you know what I mean,
and just so hard to read. Sits there and he
really takes his time and he just looks at me
and he goes, so what happened? And I was like
this and that and I'm really sorry. I just I
thought I could make it or whatever. And he's just like,

(24:42):
don't ever let that happen again, and he kind of
like smiles, like smirk laughs, and then I was like, okay.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
Like, oh my god, it was hard. I was scary, scary.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
It was a smile makes it scarier to me it
and it was just like okay. So I just kind
of walked away and that was it. And then my
entire dressing room was filled with the girls and the
boys and they all after me.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
When I walked in.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
It was like it was a funny moment. Yeah, crazy
in trouble.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Yeah, but I learned. I learned a valuable lesson.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Was it worth it? Like? Was the the was.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Because it was an accident. It wasn't like it wasn't
like the night before. I was like I have to
go home with this person. It's the only time.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
I mean maybe that was that play in some way,
sort of like me with boys in general at the time,
but no, it wasn't conscious. It was just like an accident.
I didn't expect to wake up that late. I guess
we went to bed super late.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
You know.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
It was just like a messy moment for me. I
feel like when you're like, how old were you twenty
two twenties?

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yes, it's like in your twenties. I feel like you're
still like learning your barometer. Yeah, for how you can
like party and I just have social life, you know, yes, yeah, yeah,
you're still like learning and your human things. I so
on one thing, missing a show is like fever dream,
like just like wake up in hives, being like, but
one of my best friends was doing a show I

(26:00):
think in Brooklyn and he was the lead and he
completely slept through it. They had to cancel the show
because the show revolves around him, and he like completely
missed it. And we were like, but I had such empathy,
but also like my worst nightmare. Yeah, my like literal
because what are you There's nothing to do, there's nothing

(26:20):
to do, there's nothing to say, there's like nothing. You're
just like I missed it.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, I missed it. I mean at least his is
just like wow, I just slept through the alarm.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Sure, but like he I'm that's what happened with me?

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah? Fuck, I know, thank you for sharing. Thanks, Oh
my god, that's the messiest. Fuck.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
It's funny.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Time for some messy mail. Okay you want it's the best? Okay.
This one says, what is the appropriate response to I
already have a load in me? Do you mind?

Speaker 4 (26:58):
I would like, do you mind? Me mean like not anymore?

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Or I guess like I guess it's like I already
have a load in me? Do you mind? What would
you say to them?

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Or so I just hear like a brit saying it
I already have.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
It's actually quite polite, it is, do you mind? Because
I would just say I already have a load of me?
Go off as opposed to be like, but I love
it checking in.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well it's do you mind? Like I
didn't give you permission to do that? So it did
it already happen?

Speaker 4 (27:28):
Is my thought?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Got it? Got it?

Speaker 4 (27:29):
Or yeah I need more? I need more coconuts.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
It's like I think, I think, Like I said, my
response would be I love when an oven is preheated,
and so I would proceed. But I know that some
people are not.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
Into they want to they want to be like.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
They want they want to have that be that they
wants to be there load. They don't want to another
person's load in there. But I don't know, Like I
go to sex parties and like you fuck somebody and
like they've got a load in them, And sometimes there's
the you know, people have a sharpie and you'll see
on their ass, like the tallies of how many loads
they've already taken, and like you add your load to it.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, I always going to be like educated, We're.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
An educational podcast. I love that base. I do know
that one of my best friends were talking and we're
having a debate about this, which is that like I
don't if you have a load in you and I'm
fucking you, I don't mind like putting my load and
adding it to them to make matter to the mix.
Think you. But my best friend was saying he also

(28:31):
doesn't mind unless the load belongs to a friend. So
like if I came in this bottom's hole, my best
friend would not want to fuck that person because he
doesn't want my load on his dick, but wouldn't mind
if it was somebody else.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
I get that.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
You get that, Tell me what you get? That to me.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
I mean, it's the.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
It's the I'm I do better when no one knows
me saying like yeah, like this is crazy, like as
an actor, like I do better in auditions if no
one knows me behind the table because I can take
more risk.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
People know me.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
You're like, oh, well you have an idea of me already.
So there's this like oh I'm scared to like really
go for it. Yeah, when you're like, oh, you've been there,
it's it's maybe that same idea of like it's too it's.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
Too close, it's too close, it's too close.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
And you're like, my friend, I don't know, I get that. Yeah,
so I don't know if you're both in that situation
like that's where you draw the line. That's where we're you.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Like that was my response, Well you know where you are.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
I was like, that's the line, Like we're we're already here,
like you know it's fine.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Also like in my mind, listen, it's intimacy, like we're bonding,
we both suck the same persons are in there, like
go for it. But I get it. I get people
have their their their things, there their lines. Everyone has
their line Okay, this one says, just got a flogger
from Blessa. Shout out to Blessa, and I'm in love.

(30:00):
It's my little pick me up throughout the day. Well,
we talked about this. We don't like spanking, but a
flogger is like a but you flog with like a paddle. Okay,
I google her flogger. Let's see what they look like.
Uh huh oh yes, oky cool. Yeah yeah yeah, like
they're like they look like little pom poms, yes, cheerleader

(30:20):
pom poms, but not actually like those.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
You do like those like well, just like they look
so they look like hair, I like, I like.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
They do look like little tassel big. Yeah. So I
was at a flapper. Yes, I was at a sex party.
It was a straight sex part, Okay, it was a
lot of straight people were more heterosexual presenting. But I
was there with my boyfriend and we were like laying
on the floor on the cushions or whatever, just like vibing,

(30:48):
and then suddenly like somebody next to us is like
getting flogged, and then like just flogging is happening all
around us, and it looked so interesting if.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
I clothing on no, Okay, like the clothing on I did, did,
I did?

Speaker 2 (31:00):
I was? I think I think it was shirtless and
like shorts. But yeah, I mean people were in various
states of undress. But then they were being tied up,
which I think is so sexy. I I've never been
tied up, but I would love to. And then getting
flogged and just looked the sound of it. It didn't
sound like the spanking we're talking about, right. It wasn't
like a stinging. It was just kind of like a
like a feeling, like like the car wash. Yes, it

(31:24):
was lovely. I was soothing and some like I close
my eyes. I feel like it'd be like a like
a sound machine with the mixed in of the my
favorite kind of sound machine. So shout out to that flogger.
Have you no, I'm going to get a flogger. I'll
get you a flogger, okay, And then you try it,
and you know flogging is better than spanking.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
I'd probably use it more as like an accessory.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Homosexuals out of it.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Like that just swings in like like around, you're.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Making it word, do you okay? This one says started
sexting with an online friend and they're obsessed with my
whole and I love the praise do you have do
you have you experienced praise kinks? Do you love a
praise kin?

Speaker 4 (32:10):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (32:11):
You know I've never heard it categorized as this as
praise king, but yes, yes, because as someone who like
I'm a show off, yes, and I like being really
good at something and so and who doesn't like getting
good feedback onlike themselves, like even even like I'm not
even talking like my career, like professionally, so I totally

(32:34):
feel like I.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Would even be a little I love.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
I like that a lot, Yes, like, especially when it's
because all of a sudden, like when you get in
relationships or sometimes you're you're seeking praise, So if you're
getting it, what's not nice about that?

Speaker 2 (32:49):
It's the best.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
If someone's just like I'm going to keep praising and
praising you like that, especially if you want praise from
this person, Yes, that's nice.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
I love a praise kink. I mean, I'm I love
being verbal. I also love when somebody is telling me
how much they're enjoying something. That just like turns me
on more and I love hearing it. And I also
think like you and I were dolls who really love
to take care of ourselves, and like, you know, I
always dressed and showered and all, so like, yes, tell

(33:17):
me that my whole is beautiful because I really do
take care of her. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, And it's also it's such a surprise you don't
You don't hear that all the time.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Don't hear that all the time?

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Oh my god, I love the way you put an
outfit together.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
It's this oriphice no one gets to see all the time,
and so it's like, oh, like, I'm you were brave
for saying yes, Yes.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I appreciate that. I know. Okay, we love a praise cake,
We love a praise What do you love having praised
or what would you like to have praised?

Speaker 1 (33:45):
I like when people tell me how much they like
my dick beautiful, Like I think like the little gay
boy who never thought he would be called sexy, yeah,
or praised for his Like it's a moment that feels
very It's just feels good. Yes, And every time I'm
always a little surprised because you're just like, huh, it's like, oh.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Well this doors you haven't you know?

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, You're like when people tell you how special you
are in whatever way. Yes, you're it's uh, it's hard
to sometimes let that in. Yeah, sexually, emotionally, all the
things you know.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
I would, I would actually agree that dick I've I've
recently and maybe the last six months, h allowed myself
to receive that praise and like not write it off
like when people say, oh I love your dick or whatever,
I'm like, oh, okay, great, and how do I use
that energy now? And maybe even I think now I'm

(34:43):
working on Okay, So this sex money I went to.
The theme was like light and shadow, and so they
were talking about like shadow, like.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
What like what we love a theme?

Speaker 2 (34:51):
We love a theme, honey, And so it was like,
what of your shadow side do you want to like
transform into a way that like serves your sexual miss
I love that, And so I was saying that, like
I would like to use my my anger, my rage,
my like that part of me that I'm very scared

(35:11):
of I think would actually serve me in my domb energy.
And I'm topping a lot, and so like I'm like,
I want to explore this domb side of myself and
how can like what would be used as like aggressive
energy be transformed or transmuted into dom energy, and part

(35:33):
of that has been my dick because I'm usually that
dom energy comes out when I'm topping, although you can
be a dom bottom for sure. And so like, now
that I know that I've got enough data that's like, oh,
you have a pretty dick or a beautiful dick or whatever,
and like, how do I use that as part of
my domb energy to like come in not being surprised

(35:54):
by that anymore, but instead like being like, that's what
I bring to the table. I bring this.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Beautiful dick later, it's it's it's role play, yeah, just
being like, Okay, I'm gonna make believe that I'm that
person now, yes, yes, and you just start doing it literally,
just start living in that the self image and imagination.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Absolutely absolutely and trying those things on.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
And I will say, you know, it's funny, Like as
an actor, it's my favorite thing to do is obviously
like play people and played like and a place where
we're all doing that in some way. There is some
way that you're doing it is sexually. Absolutely, there's a
way that you feel more comple That's why there are

(36:35):
those people you hear about, like have these kings that
are surprising to their otherwise like very basic conventional personality
or just that it's.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
So vanilla, but black fantasies are far more.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yes, and and and so I I love this idea
of like taking something that's like essentially could be dark
or keeps you in a place of shame, I don't know,
just a.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Shame and like whatever, but then like using that to
your power in a way that like still works in
the framework of the reason it works, right, Like anger
and rage is such a touchy thing and can be destructive,
but I think that a lot of who I am
traffics and kindness and love and whatever. So it's like,

(37:21):
how do you take, I guess the light and play
with that dark and transform that energy into something that's useful,
which I think is such an interesting thing to just
muse about and play with. And I think so astute
you're saying that, like in the bedroom, we're all in
some way playing make believe, whether we're actually acting out
fantasies or we have projected a fantasy on the partner

(37:45):
that we that were going after, Like there is some
level of make believe we're all doing. And absolutely, yeah,
I love that, this one says my fuck buddy wants
to take me to the movies, but like, I just
want to fuck. Uh should we talk about fuck buddies?

(38:09):
I really wanted to just talk about fuck buddies because
people constantly message me about either having crushes on their
friends or finally hooking up with a friend or dealing
with fuck boys, fuck girls, fu bays, and friends with benefits,
which is all to me under the categories of fuck buddies. Yeah,
which can be What do you think about fuck buddies?

Speaker 1 (38:29):
I mean, I I think they're I think they're great.
Like I think, like, if you have it, that's wonderful,
until maybe, like I mean, it's just not going to
be the same for every single person. Yes, it's just
not like we're in it and it again, the brief
doesn't stay the same like what we were talking about earlier,
like it will evolve. Yeah, but maybe And here's the thing.

(38:52):
Sometimes both are on the exact same page for a
really long time and it works out and then maybe
it like fizzles. But more often than not, I I'm
guessing that some imbalance does maybe start to happen. Whether
that's someone who doesn't want to do it anymore, yeah,
they have it's either they don't want to do it anymore.
There's also the one who's like, I have a crush
now I want.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
To do more with Yes, I want to go there.
Now we've exercised enough.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
I actually just want to be friends with you and
like we don't need to have sex anymore.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
Yeah, what I mean, like it that you just kind.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Of have to know that that's possibly a possibility.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
Yeah, but I'm all for them.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
I am for them too. I feel like one the
reason I like a fuck buddy or a friends of
benefits is I feel like you have the emotional safety
of a connection. There's an emotional connection which I think,
if you know, nurture allows you to probably explore sexually
in ways that you wouldn't be able to necessarily with
a stranger, or you might be able to I don't know. Yeah,

(39:51):
this is all on process. I can change my mind
in a few years, but go ahead.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
I was gonna say, I am thinking back to like
a couple of people who I've put in that box
my life, and I would absolutely agree that because there
was a level of I feel comfortable here and there's
this like built in trust. But we're not together, You're
not a romantic I'm not seeking romantic partnership with you.
Y allowed for more freedom, yes, sexually because it was

(40:19):
like it was, oh, I get to keep you sexually special. Yes,
you don't become someone that I turn into a caretaker
with you don't become someone I need to be their
best friends. Yeah, Like yeah, there's there's so many other
things that come in with like relationship and romance and
romantic love. That is a reason why sex starts to

(40:40):
like shift and possibly dwindle in relationship. Yeah, and so
the not naming of it, even not even calling yourself
like it's I haven't heard the term fuck, buddy said,
I don't really want.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
I mean that's such a very millennial thing.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, right, you know, but I mean it's true it
was used, and like it's why it was so helpful.
It's because, oh, you just have these people that you
could actually Yes, like it.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
Wasn't it wasn't that deep.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
It wasn't that we totally do but yeah, it's like
you're like, oh, there's we don't have to complicate this,
like we're we we have a friendship, whether that's it's
not a close one, but like there's there's mutual respect
for each other, and we're also really good in bed together,
and so we can make our sexual experience.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
I don't want to say it's special, because it can
be special, but uh, but exciting and and fun fun.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Fun, it's adult play, yes, and so I.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Think that that's why. But but I do think what
this person is saying, like now he wants to go
to the movies, That's where that's where it can get tricky.
It's like the imbalance comes in and then you have
to have the conversation about like I.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Also want to ask the person who send this, like,
why don't you want to go to the movies with
the Well can I say this?

Speaker 2 (41:46):
I think that like we could still go to the
movies and not be romantic.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah right, yeah, but I do I will say, like
I get the I only see you like this, Yeah,
there's just this way that like that's what I want
from you. And maybe a bit of the kink of
it is that I only use you this way this way, yes,
And it's this unspoken maybe there's no he hasn't worded it,
or they haven't worded it, or she hasn't worded it

(42:10):
or like described that. But it could be that that
like why it's as good as it is and why
it's worked is.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
Because it stays like this.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, now if we move into wanting to go to
the movies, then it then it takes it away.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
It could be that, yes, that's fair. I wonder if
there's probably a delineation or distinction between like a sexual
partner and a fuck buddy, right, like the like that
a sexual partner can be that personally like I just
see you for sex, and like I see you in
that way. But if I'm adding a buddy to it, Oh.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
What I thought I see. I think like that is
what I gather. A fuck buddy? Is what the that
you're just someone who just okay?

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Because I think with the word buddy, you're right, I
guess that is maybe.

Speaker 4 (42:55):
Maybe maybe it's like you want to get some food
after like maybe we.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Were like we ordered food, we have a conversation.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
But there's also just like I just imagine, like I
don't know a Sex and the City episode and it's
like I don't know which one probably had it, but
and probably Charlotte's being like a what buddy?

Speaker 4 (43:08):
You know what I mean? She's probably asking like that
you're like a guy, you just used for sex.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
You're right, You're right, fuck buddy is just.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
Like it was a really great impression.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Because my friend can do an incredible semana impression but
can only do it with one line and it's m
a penis and that's the only he does it spot on,
but can only say that perfectly. You're right. Fuck buddies
are the definition of fuck buddy, I think is just
the person that you fuck, as opposed to friends with benefits,

(43:38):
which I think I was uh conflating with each other. Oh,
friends with benefits and fuck buddy probably are not the same.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Thing, interesting, right are they not?

Speaker 2 (43:46):
I would say they're not. Wow, I would say they're not.
I would say, like a friends with benefits is like
we genuinely have a friendship, okay, and sometimes we fuck.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
I see, yes, And a fuck.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Buddy would be like, that's just the buddy that I fuck.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, y, yes, that's correct.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
So I think that, like, if the fuck buddy wants
to go to the movies, then I see why you'd
be like, yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
Have a question for you.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Tell me do you have either of those and which
one would you want more of? But I mean, I
guess you're in a relationship.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
So I two relationships, but I do I do. I
have fuck buddies and I have friends with benefits. I
will say the fuck buddy is easier because I have
two relationships that are like emotionally attached. Fuck buddies are
easier because they can just be that. Whereas a friends
of benefits, I feel like I have to do more
caretaking because you know you do. It's like the benefits

(44:37):
and the friends. There's a lot of you know, taking
care of each other's hearts in that, and that feels
like a little more work that I don't currently have
the capacity to do because of the two partners. But
in another version of my life could absolutely I would
absolutely prefer friends with benefits gott it. Okay, how about you?

Speaker 1 (44:55):
I don't have either, And I know, like as like
sexually is like I want someone to meet me at
and would like that. Probably Johnny Sie believes this and
be like, what you don't have like five people on
the roster?

Speaker 4 (45:07):
Yeah, but like I don't.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
What do you look for in a fuck buddy or
friends with benefits?

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Someone who uh when I see I'm just like I
find something new and attractive about them every time. Yeah,
And it's there's something special but that I don't need
to own them at the mind. Yes, And so as
long as that that is at play, it allows for
the not seeing to be like, oh, yeah, they're not
on my mind or whatever, right, and when we see

(45:40):
each other, it's just like, oh, I love when we
come together. Yeah, that's that's kind of like that's what
I like about moments when that have when that's happened,
and there's this level of like interest in the I
don't know, like there's something nice about when you meet
someone who is just is just like they meet you
at your horny, meet you at your at your want,

(46:02):
and you don't have to do the like an email form,
Hey hope you're well, how's it like it?

Speaker 4 (46:08):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Like when you get that text from me, you know
what I'm here for?

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, Like I'm that friend who and I think some
friends like like they they they correct me, like hello,
they start with that, I just if I haven't talked
to you in a while, but all of a sudden
I need information from you in a certain way.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
I just asked you the question. Sure, And it might
have been a month or two since like.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
But like the Hey, no, it's been for I think
we both know, just know that, like I'm thinking of
you now and like how nice that I'm texting you
and like you're the one I'm coming to for the information.
And so I like when friends just like give me
the answer and they don't need anything more for me,
and it's just like that was our moment. Yes, And
so when people meet me there sexually, that's kind of nice,

(46:45):
you know. So like finding someone who vibes with you
in the spontane and spontaneity of it all sometimes doesn't
have to be super planned. It can just be like, hey,
like I'm feeling this, can you meet me here? Like
it's kind of energetically right now?

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Or no, But I really want to like someone who
reassures me even if they.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Can't give it to me in that moment.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (47:06):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
I like feeling like taken care of whilst we're possibly
scheduling a hookup.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yes, that there's kindness and compassion that still comes through.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Yeah, I like whether it's a fuck buddy or friends
of benefits. I like the mutual respect. I like the like,
you know, because sometimes you can mess with somebody and
they don't respond, and I don't like that energy. I
like that no matter what, even if this is just sex,
that we take care of each other's heart. Yes, And
that to me is what makes a good fuck buddy
or friends of benefits. Well, obviously if you're friends with benefits,
there's that emotional connection. But a great fuck buddy is

(47:40):
to me, is somebody who communicates and who goes, oh,
I'm around right now, or I won't be around, or
I'm not into this anymore, or but they communicate.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, and I'll add even more, someone who's like very
communicative and shares their whole self with me, Yes the moment, Yes, like, yeah,
we're coming together because we're extremely tacked to each other
and it's like a hookup.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
But that they let me in.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah, Because I'm someone who like, I'm in my head
and I feel comfortable around people who I feel like
I can share with And so if they do that,
then I meet them there and then we just like,
then I feel comfy with them.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
That's happened to me. That's come with age, because there
were My bar for fuck buddies was much lower in
my twenties, but as i've gotten older and engaged with
like what sex means to me and the kind of
sex that I want to have, like that the bar
has raised and like people have to show up and
allow me to show up.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yes, yes, I agree with you. I like that has
happened for me. But do you also kind of still
go through something that I fight with a lot, which
is if I also an aphrodisiac from me, is someone
not giving it, not giving me the thing I get

(48:56):
obsessed obsessed with needing to like get them.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
I know exactly what you're talking about that still lives
in me that.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
I killed her.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
She like I can feel it, and I'm like, oh,
it turns you into this, Like it just is it's
so obvious when it's easy and nice and they meet
like agains. When they meet, you're just like oh, like
it's but then then the turbulent other side, which also
kind of turns into it's hot.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
It's yes, but it's the not knowing it. It's the
build up it.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
But then like they're not meeting you is itself this
like it's an affrodisiac in a way.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
I get that. It's like it's the channelt like it.
I know there's a piece of the chase of it
of like wanting what you can't have and like, oh,
I want it more now, and I understand that, and
I feel like I used to be like that and
do that, and but then I got to a point
where it was like I am more turned on my clarity,
and I'm more turned on by you saying exactly what

(49:56):
you want exactly what like phrase me yes, yes, yes,
make me wonder if you even know. I love Like
clear communication is truly my cake. And so it's like
the person who's willing to come up to me and
say I think you're attractive and I want to do X,
Y and Z, I would rather go home with them
than the person who's like wishy washy. I just had
an experience and I was very proud of myself. There's

(50:17):
this guy. It's part of a couple, and so i've
you know, fooled around with them sometimes. And I was
talking to one of the partners and we were like,
wanted to get together, and we're trying to make it
work because both of our partners are out of town.
And then we met up at a party and we
talked and the vibes were there, even kissed a little bit.

(50:38):
But then I just felt like, which is also very light,
like it was like you're also still scanning for other people,
and I was like, oh, an old version of me
would have like stayed and like tried to be the
one that you end up with. But this new version
was like, oh, okay, well you don't want it bad
enough and that's okay, I'm gonna go and find somebody else.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
See I do that.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
But then I I'm You're still I'm ruminating about why
they didn't pick me. Oh am, I have you ever
taken the Myers Briggs test? Now it's Myers Briggs or
it's another one. I I just I think I took
it to where it's like you're like e F n
J or something.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yes, yes, And that's like a long time. I feel
like somebody sent it to me and it was like
too long for me to.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah, it was actually very informative, very accurate for me.
And one of the one of the things that I
remembered is like, and it has helped, UH kind of
name it when I'm experiencing it, and it's like, oh,
I get turbulent around if someone's hard to read.

Speaker 4 (51:36):
This is even this isn't even sexually.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
In general, if I'm in a space and I feel
like someone isn't reassuring me with an energy in some way,
I work extra hard or I'm just in my in
my brain the whole time, like wondering why they're not
they don't like me? Yes, So imagine when you want
them and you're attracted to them and they don't kind

(51:59):
of give you that, or it's like it's it's not
so obvious walking away, that becomes a project in my mind.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
I think what I've learned to like because I fully
understand that and I feel like I've gone through that
and still go through it at times. But what helps
me is going, one, well, we're not all going to
be attracted to each other. Like there are people that
like I'm not attracted to or I'm I'm not connected to.
They're fabulous people. I'm just not there or or I

(52:28):
was going through my own shit and like completely just
like missed them, and so I'm like, let me give
them that grace. They might have been going through their
own shit or they're just not that into it, and
so then it's like okay, cool. Well it's because I
think what we end up doing. I think a lot
of people relate to this is that when you get
rejected or whatever, you end up thinking it's something that
you have to fix about you. Yes, And I am
now in a state where it's like, no, I'm actually

(52:49):
quite good. I'm not perfect, but like if they're not
into it, we're just not a match. Yep, yep, and
like there's nothing I got to go home and fix.
It's just like we're not a match and somebody else
because also at this point you're like, I've had enough
experiences to know that, like I'm good.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah, cool, and you know those people who are because
I'm still this happens with me all the time. And
to the people who are listening who like also do this,
like the reason we do that? And I think, as
Esther Parrell, who I love, worded this on one of
her conversations with a guest that the reason we when
we are rejected or it doesn't go our way, make

(53:27):
it more like we internalize it more is because it
gives us agency. It gives us something to do and yeah,
to do to but really it has nothing. It doesn't
always have something to do with you in the way
that you think, yes, in the way that it's you know,
creating turmoil in your brain and all of that stuff.
So that was very helpful to hear when I forget

(53:48):
when she spoke about it or whatever. Yeah, because that's
why you're doing it. There's nothing wrong with you. There's
nothing wrong. But it's like, oh, I'm I'm just trying
to control in some way, and the agency is like, oh,
I don't have to.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Which is like if you're a perfectionist, Like, of course
it really hits on it because perfectionists, we're all we're
trying to do is control and control the outcome and
to like, how can I make myself better? How can
I do?

Speaker 4 (54:10):
You know this?

Speaker 1 (54:10):
This is what I'm made of, by the way, tell me,
I'm not someone who like like kind of subscribe to
this like growing up.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
But the perfectionism thing is just such a thing.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
It's it is. I always say I'm a recovering perfectionists,
and I don't say that with any kind of joke.
It is like my addiction, like I I it's something
that I picked up and I have to put back down.
But one of the things that's helped me is to observe,
not absorb, Like that's a big. That's like a mantra
like I can observe your behavior, I don't have to
absorb it. I can observe your energy. I don't have

(54:40):
to absorb it. And also like not needing a reason
for everything, Like I can leave you where you are
and I do not need a reason for why you've
done X, Y and Z. I just know it doesn't
vibe with me, yeah, Or I just know that you
don't like me, or you're not you're not show you're
not showing up in a way that makes me feel loved.
I don't need to know why. I don't need your bag,
I don't need your I'm gonna leave you right there.

(55:01):
And like you know, like that that wish I could say,
it's listen. It is a practice. It is not something
that happens overnight. It's not something you wake up you
decide I'll go. It is like a practice to like
really engage with that and like figure out what are
the reasons why you want to hold and how do
you slowly over time begin to release squish. Yes, but

(55:23):
like that is to me and that also has come
with age, and like I'm thirty seven and I really
felt that shift because you start to go, well, babe,
we're halfway through this thing. You know, if you live
to eighty. But I'm almost halfway through this thing. Am
I really gonna be stressing over that boy?

Speaker 4 (55:39):
Right?

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I really? I can do more with my life than
stressed over that boy.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
And so then it's like, okay, well then.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
It's like, why are you stressing over that boy?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Why are you stressing over that boy?

Speaker 4 (55:49):
Are you? Is it? Is it keeping you from another thing?
Is it just?

Speaker 1 (55:53):
What are you getting from it that keeps you in
some way, like in the habit of it, that you're
getting something from it? And I know that I I uh,
that is a part of it.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
And it's like, what do you I think? It's like
what is what? What do you want to nurture? Like
you gotta you're gonna spend your energy somewhere. So do
you want to spend your energy trying to figure out
what this boy is doing in his head?

Speaker 4 (56:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Or do you want to spend your energy finding somebody
who would just tell you? It's like, I'd rather spend
my energy with somebody because it's like that feels good,
whether it's sexual, romantic, platonic, it's like Oh, it feels
good when I'm with people who can speak and clearly
communicate and whatever. So that feels better than this other thing. Yeah,
so I can I can let that rest.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
My friendships, I think tend to be the most nutritious
for me. Yes, more so than this than than my
like sexual experiences, which are also like beautiful in their
own way or what. Yeah, but like I said, like
they can be a little they can they can be
overall with some shame for me.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:53):
So where I.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Feel like I have a break from the the focus
on sex or something like that, and it we do
a turnaround and it becomes fun again is when I'm
accessing my friendships just with people who I get to
like just kind of be with be with friends who

(57:17):
you can watch a show and like your legs are intertwined. Yes,
there's this way that you're sharing in love, but that
isn't romantic. Allows me to appreciate when I do get
the sex, yes, and that it's not with that you know,
it's not even that it's not with them, but just
like it's those are those moments that feel that they

(57:38):
kind of balance me a little bit.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I have been leaning into I've been leaning into being
more intimate socially with my male friends, and by that
I mean like being able to like watch a movie
and you know, have our legs intertwined, and it's nothing romantic,
but there's been something so healing about physically being intimate
or showing intimacy with my male especially my male queer friends,

(58:03):
that's allowed me to beautiful. It's so beautiful and allows me,
I think, to take back my power in the bedroom
as well, because it's like, oh, I'm learning about intimacy
with other men, which makes it less because sometimes, especially
with gay sex, sometimes with the wrong partners, you can
get into like a buying who's the girl, who's the boy,
who's the top. It becomes very like masculine versus feminine,

(58:26):
as opposed to just letting people be and so allowing
like taking back the narrative of like boys shouldn't do
this boy and like just being like that's my best
homie and I'm gonna run my fingers through his hair
while we talk about housewives and nothing. We're not fucking,
but like that's my That is how I'm showing love.
Allows me to show up in the bedroom owning that

(58:46):
power owning that intimacy the best, the best. Thank you
for being here.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Thank you. This was so amazing.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
This was incredible.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
Like I just always loved talking to you.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I love talking to you, and I'm so glad we are.
We are with that museum trip. I still think about
that one of my favorites.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
So great. Yes, and your one man show, which yes.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
I'm coming back with it. I'll be back at the
next year.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
Yay.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Oh my thank you.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
Thanks.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we part ways, let me speak to yours.
I adore Ian. Ian. It's such a special friend to me.
You know, you know when you make friends that you're like,
we don't see each other regularly, you're not even like
always texting, but you meet somebody and you have like

(59:41):
what I will say, like your souls just kind of
like attach and you're like, I don't know, I like
this vibe. I like your vibe. We should let's hang out.
Let's you know, let's kicky. And that is the relationship
that I have with Ian, where like our souls just
kind of like attached, and we've had I just have
some some of my favorite conversations whenever I get to

(01:00:03):
see him, and this conversation was, you know, no different,
was exactly exactly what I anticipated it would be, which
is just a lot of deep, expansive, safe and vulnerable exploration.
So I'm just so grateful for Ian and his friendship.

(01:00:26):
What are the things that really stood out to me?
You know, there's a difference between a fuck buddy of
versus a friends with benefits, which I'm glad we solve that.
And you know, maybe you have a different take, which
you can always email me, tell me something messy at
gmail dot com. But yeah, it seems like a fuck
buddy is you know, just somebody that you kind of like,
you fuck, and that's kind of it. And a friends
with benefit is somebody that you retain a friendship with.

(01:00:47):
And sometimes you know, if the moon is full, okay,
if the stars glimmer in the right way, you might
suck a dep Okay, you might eat that. You might
be playing with that whole okay and you or you
might just be kissing a little bit. You know, the
benefits the benefits of the friendship. So I love that

(01:01:08):
we've established that. But you know, always what I will say, regardless,
fuck buddy, your friends, benefits, whoever it is. You know,
you make sure you communicate and you know, if the
the vibes are shifting, you know, as we talked about,
like you know, one person may decide they no longer
want to participate in that same way. I think that
that's totally fine. But to communicate it to to honor

(01:01:30):
each other by saying what you need or what you
want or what you desire, what your expectations are is
just the most loving thing you can do for yourself
and for the other person. Like we said, we're alls
with heart, and so that is that is part of
being a hoe with a heart. Also the chase, y'all,

(01:01:51):
the chase of like uh you know, which I get
a lot of people the quote unquote want what you
can't have, the chase of uh you know, especially for
I would say, kind of the how men are rared
or raised is to like, you know, I want to
chase this thing and if it comes to easily then

(01:02:12):
I don't want it. That vibe I get it, I
understand it, but also that stresses my nervous system out
I just learned, you know, Like I feel like my
twenties were for you know, the chase if you will.
And my thirties have been to chase myself okay, and
catch myself quite honestly and hold myself. And how I

(01:02:35):
hold myself softly and safely and lovingly is by making
sure that the people that I'm around, whether it is romantically, platonically, professionally, sexually,
that I don't have to chase them hello, that I'm

(01:02:57):
not bending over backwards, that there's reciprocity. If there's not,
you know, a reciprocal pouring into one another, if there's
not an an equitable eagerness to be in relationship or
in connection with one another, that I don't want it.
It stresses my nervous system out. And you know, I

(01:03:19):
just believe that it is okay to not be a match.
I think if we can, we're not taught that. You know,
every movie you watch is like the guy gets the girl,
the girl gets the guy, you know, like it's always,
you know, at the end of the movie and we
all cheer, you got her, she got him. Okay, she's

(01:03:41):
a whole person now, like that energy fuck it right,
Like it is okay to not be a match. The
most important relationship is alone with yourself, and so trying
to change who you are and fit into a box
to make yourself appealing for some person that you don't
even really know, just seems like a fruitless pursuit, not

(01:04:07):
a very compassionate pursuit to not not a pursuit that
honors the magical human that you are. And so I
think that it is okay to start going, hey, okay,
well that wasn't a match. You know, like, if you're
if you listen, if you're a terrible person, you're gonna
know that because you're gonna be around people who reflect that.

(01:04:29):
So if you're around some people that you're like, I
don't trust these people, which I know some people are,
which that's a different conversation. But if you're around people
that you're like, I don't really trust them, then, you know,
my mother would always say, like, your friends are a
reflection of you. So if you're in community or in
you know, in spaces with people that you do not trust,
I would look instead of looking at them, I would
look at you, right, do you trust yourself? Right? Are

(01:04:52):
you trustworthy? Right? And so you do that work. If
you find yourself around people that you trust and you
feel really good about you know, your personhood and whatnot,
or you can like trust that, hey, I got good
people around, so it probably means that I'm good as well.
Then if you're not a match with that person, with
that boy, that girl that they you don't need to
go into the lab to fix yourself. There's nothing for

(01:05:15):
you to fix. It's just not a match. It's just
a change. I gave all that explanation because not that
I think anyone listening to his vodcast will probably fall
into this category because you're aware enough to be you know,
listening to this podcast, but you know, yeah, some people
are assholes, okay, and those people do need to go
do some work. They need to go to fucking therapy,

(01:05:36):
they need to read a couple of books, they need
to meditate, for sure. Those people absolutely like that. We're
not a match for a reason. My love, Okay, you're
an asshole, but uh, most people are not assholes. I
know everyone here listening. You're not an asshole. You are
a compassionate, empathetic human being who I know moves with
intention and moves with love. I'm not saying you're perfect.

(01:05:58):
I'm not saying you know, we don't slip up, but
you know you move with intention and with love and
with grace and compassion. So if the boy the girl
that they isn't vibing with you, I don't think it
means you need to go fix your vibes. I think
that it means that it's just not a match, it's
not aligned. And can I also say this sometimes a

(01:06:18):
lot of times, maybe even all the time, hot take,
not being a match is such a gift. And I
will say that in this sense of jobs. There are
jobs where I was like, oh I want that job,
Oh my god, I want that whatever, and I didn't
get it, and you're bomb disappointed, so sad. And then
I hear about it because somebody I know may have
gotten that job and they had a miserable time, or

(01:06:40):
there was an asshole on set, or you know, the
boss was a dick, all these things, and you're like, oh, wow,
I actually got saved. The fact that it didn't work
out for me actually saved me my peace. And so
sometimes when it's not a match, assume that your peace
has been saved. Hmm. Okay, great clarity turns me on.

(01:07:04):
I can't say that enough. I love when people are
direct and clear. I am not a my reader. I
say this to my husband all the time. I am
not a my reader. I do not know what's going
on in that head. I'm not even gonna try because
if I try, and then I'm start assuming and you
got to tell me what you need. I'll ask, of course,
but if somebody doesn't tell me what it is, I'm
not going I am going to take you at your word.
If you are somebody that I love and I respect,

(01:07:26):
that I care for, I'm going to take you at
your word. You tell me you good, I believe you good. Now,
of course we know there's intuition and sometimes you're like,
I feel something's off, so I hear you, but like
that's different. But just in general, not a my reader.
You got it. You gotta you gotta say things to people.
And so clarity turns me on people saying what they want,
what they're looking for, what they desire, because what clarity

(01:07:48):
does is one, it allows you to get what you
want right because you're being clear about it, and so
the other person can show up. But it also allows
you to avoid the things you don't want because that
other person now has the opportunity to say, yes I
can fulfill that, or no I can't. And so now
you're not spending energy dancing in uncertainty. Who wants to

(01:08:11):
go to the uncertainty ball?

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
Not I?

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Not I, baby, I'm not here to be twirling around
at the uncertainty bowl, the uncertainty debutante. That's not That's
not my vibe. So clarity, clarity. Really. I was on
a podcast and I said something and the host was like,
that's what I call a pussy tingle. And I love
that term. Shout out to Lindsey Mumble. Uh, date Raisin, Yes,

(01:08:38):
a pussy tingle. Clarity makes my pussy tang goal. Uh
other things you know. I love when Ian said that
his friendships are nutritious. Wow, I love language nutrichious. Yes, yes, baby,

(01:08:58):
Going back to what I said about friends and do
you trust them, like you know, you're out a community
you trust or you don't trust. It should be nutritious.
You should feel fed when you hang out with a friend,
with family, with the people that you are spending energy
and time with, you should feel nourished and they should
feel nourished. Right if you're leaving situations and you're feeling

(01:09:22):
drained and exhausted and like you got to take a
break for a week before you ever see them motherfuckers Again,
something might be off, babe, something something might be off.
So having those friendships that are nutritious. And also I
said this on the episode with the Carramo, but like
working on your intimacy with your friends. I think that

(01:09:44):
women are really great at that, are really good at
being able to be soft with one another, which is socialization.
But men, malebodied aren't often great that not socialized. You know,
there's a there's it's that's gay, right, Like it's so

(01:10:05):
like that's good, and then the gays who are gay
also subscribe to it. It's like maybe you're gay, so
be gay.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
But yeah, I think that this idea, you know, I
think that we would as a society benefit from more
intimacy with our friends. Intimacy does not mean sex, right.
Intimacy is just the ability to be soft with one another,
to be vulnerable, to share space with one another, to
be gentle and tender with one another, to know what
that is and to offer that is a muscle is

(01:10:37):
a skill. Some of y'all hate a forehead kiss, right,
like you tense up your body tenses that will add
a handhold, right. That is a fear of intimacy. What
are you afraid of losing with that intimacy? And so
can you can you work on that muscle that allows
you to soften and to trust your safety. You know,
you don't have to be intimate with everybody, right, but

(01:10:59):
if this is somebody calling your best friend, somebody you're
calling family, chosen family, you have a right to be
able to, you know, fall into their arms and lean
on their chest and and and be loved in that
way and love them in that way. You deserve that,
So work on that intimacy muscle. And finally, which is random,

(01:11:19):
I know, we you know. I recorded this episode back
in I think September or October, so I was saying
that my show is end of next year, but this
this year, baby, so my show. I will be heading
to New York next week a week after this episode drops,
to work shop the show at Ours Nova in Manhattan,

(01:11:42):
and then we're gonna do the full production at the
end of the year, which I think is September, October November.
But I will keep you posted all that because if
you're in New York or near New York, I would love, love,
love to have you in the audience. As I tell
all of my sex stories because the show is called
ho Church and I will be being a big ass

(01:12:02):
hole on that stage. Okay, that is everything. I love
you so much. By the way, if you are enjoying
the podcast, please do me favor and rate, review and subscribe.
We are trying to get one hundred and fifty ratings
by the end of this month. So oh February so short,

(01:12:23):
so there's like two days, three days, whatever, Just do it.
Just do it. You don't have to write anything along.
You can just say I'm obsessed with the show, give
it five stars, and then subscribe so that you never
miss an episode. It really helps the show. I adore you,
I love you, Love you, love you, love you, love you.

(01:12:45):
You can find me on Instagram as well at Brandon
Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast at tell Me
Something Messy, and you can join our community on the
Messy Mondays substack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts,
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I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
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(01:13:09):
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
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is six six nine, six ninety six three seven seven nine, Rate,
review and share this podcast with all your hoe and
aspiring hoe friends. Really really helps the show out, all right.
Until next time, ask about the politics of that dick

(01:13:31):
before you make it spit, make sure they eat the kitty,
buffore they beat the kitty before fuckation or sucation communication.
And in case you haven't heard it yet, today you
are so deeply loved. I love you ye, thank you
so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy. If
you all enjoyed the show, send me episode to someone

(01:13:53):
else who might like it. Tell Me Something Messy was
executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly.
Our producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For more podcasts
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