Class w/ Trieste Kelly Dunn

In this episode, Kara and Liza recap “Class” (Season 7, Episode 17), dissect the disturbing murder of Jennifer Cave, and have a great chat with the wonderful Trieste Kelly Dunn (Banshee, Blindspot). 

SOURCES:

Los Angeles Times

New York Post

Austin American-Statesman

KXAN

The Austin Chronicle

CBS News

Texas District & County Attorneys Association

WHAT WOULD SISTER PEG DO:

National Problem Gambling Helpline

Next week’s episode will be “Spousal Privilege” (Season 16, Episode 8).

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
These episodes are based on. These are our stories done done.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello, this is Thats Messed Up an SVU podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
And my name is Lisa. I'm the host. Duh. My
name is Kara.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm the other host obviously. And you know what we do.
We talk SVU, we talk true crime. We talked to
a fabulous guest, and you know this today's episode is
no different.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
But we also tour. That's another thing we do. We
go on tour. We do. We do this podcast live.
It's very different.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's got PowerPoint, games, audience interaction.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
It's so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
It's truly not just like two podcasts hosts sitting at
a card table. Not that I'm shading people that do that,
but that's just not.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
What we do it so much for. I think if
you're act ticket price.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
It's if you're paying a ticket price, we like to
give the people a little something extra and there and
we are there with our PowerPoint and our extra I know.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
It's just funny because you are talking about a specific podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
You went to see Live. Yeah, I am, I am.
I don't you are listening.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
I was annoyed I had to pay a ticket price
to a podcast I don't listen to for someone's birthday.
But anyway, we are coming out this fall to twenty
one cities. I am so excited. We just announced Chicago
last week. That was a hold out that we had
to wait to announce because it's part of a festival.
So your hometown girl, Liza's coming home and we love

(01:48):
coming to Chicago. We'll be in DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, and
Raleigh in September. So the DC tickets are flying, so
get those and then come see us Atlanta Charlotte rally.
We need you, guys. We can't come back if you
guys don't come. So yeah, and then check our check
that's messed up live dot com for all the other
dates that we're doing. We're going all over the place

(02:09):
including Toronto, International.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Baby and I have stand up dates no big deal, Wilmington, Sacramento, Portland,
San Francisco, DC and on but those are through you know. Yeah,
more reckout Lara's stands up that's all on her Instagram
and listen. We are in a what called a sack
of life. We are in a strike, double Serrus strike.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know, you guys always you guys know, we're in
the time machine as always, like this will be coming
out probably two weeks into the strike, but we just
as of this recording, we're kind of new into the strike.
Liza and I are both members of sag UH, so
we both voted for the strike. We support the strike
one thousand percent, one thousand percent.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Did you watch the TikTok where it was like the
law that was changed by the Justice Department in August
twenty twenty. No, so back in the day, the studios
would own like the movie theaters, the ticketing places. They
it was like they double dipped on stuff, and so
there was like a law or whatever, a thing, a
restriction I don't know the legal times put on.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
So it all has to be separate.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
So the movie theaters have to be separate from the studios,
have to be separate from the marketing, so there's no
double dipping. But in technology companies that doesn't exist. It's
all unilateral. It is the word that they used. I
guess this is it's really embarrassing trying to summarize something
that is above my brain. But basically, like Google then

(03:36):
owns all the Google marketing, and like for tech companies,
you're allowed to own everything and double dip.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
And so that's what happened.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Like all of these streamers are tech companies. They are
not film, you know, they're not studios and so but
then they became the studios and the distributors and the
market they own all of it. And in August twenty
two money, while we were dealing with I don't know,
an election, COVID, a racial uprising, like basically, they quickly

(04:10):
asked the Justice Department to switch it and they did.
And so that is how they're now able to buy
law like double dip in all of these ways and
own everything and not have to pay residuals or fair
prices or basically anything because they own the production and
the distribution.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
But also the big reason why they don't have to
pay residuals really too, is that they don't No one
knows how popular a show is on a streamer.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Like for television, we have the Nielsen ratings.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Everybody agreed a long time ago, there's the Nielsen ratings.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
There.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Certain people have Nielsen boxes and that determines based on
a lot of analytics and stuff that they put into it.
How many people are watching something I'm sure now also
social media and other factors are involved.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
That tells they do know, they just don't tell that
information just won't tell.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yes, they exactly. Netflix, they have nothing but data. Netflix
knows when you turn it off. Hulu knows, Oh, there's
something about the credit sequence that these people don't like.
They're turning it off after the opening credits, like or whatever.
There's so much data they know exactly, but they don't
share it because it's all about competition. So and what

(05:20):
the actors are suggesting is, let's use this place. I
believe it's called like parent Media or something like that
that does that basically tries to use social media and
a lot of different analytics to figure out what the
popular shows are, like, what makes Wednesday a hit? What
makes you know a show like Survival of the Thickest
to hit? You know, I'll just mention that show out

(05:40):
of nowhere. That is not a project I worked on.
But you know that they can't. They don't share any
of that. And so then but the people that are
working on Wednesday are like, I know, this is a
global hit, like why am I not getting any money?
Or like now the Orange is the New Black Girls?
Several of whom we've interviewed.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Are on the news.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
They're in the new There was a big article talking
about how freaking' Oranges and New Black broke open the
whole streaming thing, like they were the first big streaming hit.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
And those girls get checks for ten dollars, like it's
not crazy.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, the Gilmore Girls guy he was talking about, like, yeah,
it's just the person who sells the licensing, so Universal
or whatever big company, and these actors worked in the show,
and that they just they're playing it over and over
making so much money. And it just sucks that these
stockholders and CEOs. I mean, I saw one thing that
this could be the like strike that truly creates like

(06:38):
a huge labor change everywhere, a big revolution because of
the fame, because it's basically its most industry is the
bosses are making hundreds of millions of dollars.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
It's all about stockholders.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Like I don't understand the people that think the stockholders
deserve more money than the actors or the writers, Like
that's great. I don't understand poor people fighting for the
rich people on social media. That's what's confusing or like
anti acts, it's so wild.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Well, I mean, we like to think about acting and
writing as art, but when you involve tech companies, it's
about Wall Street. That's all they care about is what
you're making next quarter. It's all about money. So it's
like there's not the same you know, Oh, let's just
make this movie because this is a movie, a story
that needs to be told, even if it's not going
to make a ton of money, you know what I mean.
And it's like that kind of mentality is fading away.

(07:24):
But but it's fine. The goal should be to make money.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Okay, I believe in that make money, but like to
not pay the people making it. But this person online
just said this might be the thing that breaks it up.
Like open for everyone is because of the fame. Yeah,
we love famous people, and so when it's recognizable, people
are striking versus like not famous people in other industries.
So yeah, hopefully this trickles into everywhere.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
I don't you know.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
It's just like it is like the wildest timing to
be in a project that comes out the day the.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Strength rules are enacted.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Lucky, we got to do one premier party and have
a great fucking night. But the timing is pretty funny
for me personally, but everyone believes in it and the
lead of the everyone is for this strike.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Now, this is a huge This is a huge moment
for labor unions all across like the world basically. And
so if you think, oh my god, this is just
about snobby actors or people that have a ton of money,
eighty seven percent of the people in SAG cannot even
afford the health insurance. That's that don't even make enough
to qualify for the health insurance, which is twenty six
thousand dollars a year. So we're not talking about Jessica Chastain,

(08:34):
you know, We're talking about like a lot of working
actors and working writers and people that are just literally
trying to pay their rents and make the entertainment that
everyone enjoys. And if we all just want to be
watching fucking Love Island until we die, we better figure
this out.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, And it's like it's not just that the actors,
it's hair makeup, lighting, the grips, the catering. Someone in government,
local government in California was like, I mean the restaurant,
like all these places that we're providing lunch and catering
are losing money. Like every like there's a Teamsters. I mean,
there's so many people that make projects. It's not even

(09:13):
just the actors and writers.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's like truly every you know, the the.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Person that's writing the schedules, like yeah, the PA's it's
every it's.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Iatse and Teamsters are up for their negotiations next year.
So it's like this is really setting the stage for
like a lot of different things. And I really hope
that I don't know these evil companies like they I
feel like they have no recourse. They just give interviews
where they go this is unrealistic.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Why.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I can't say why, Like they have there's they literally
don't have a leg to stand on. It feels like no,
but they do have all the power. That's that's they.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Just say, we don't have any money.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
We don't have any money because like Paramount Plus might
not be making money, but like the parent company is
like parent, I think Paramount is making money, you know,
Like it's just.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
They asked survivor, of course they are. But no, it's
like these dudes have fucking yachts. They were all at
a billionaire summit while he was one of them, was
making all those quotes like yeah, and one of my friends, Juliet,
she brought up, she's like one of them, Like he
only makes twenty five million a year, so he probably
thinks he's not that rich because their brains are broken
and all his friends have hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah,

(10:21):
so he's there, like I'm just I'm not even that rich,
you know.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, Ted Sirrando's Ted Sarandos of Netflix makes twenty million
base but like fifty million when you get his bonuses
and his stock options and all.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
The shit of the thing is, why would he get
bonuses but not the people that made it?

Speaker 3 (10:38):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
I just want to get into their brains, like I
don't understand it, But what is their what is their reasoning.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
To think that?

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I mean it's like they don't respect labor obviously, but
like I just don't under the math. Ain't math in?
Like how is? How are stockholders have nothing to do
with it? Like how do they? How do they do
the mental gymnastics in their head? Like fuck, this show's
a giant hit. Let's give bonuses to someone who had
nothing to do, Like I don't understand.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
I mean, I think in his mind he's probably like, well,
I'm part of a huge team and we green lit
the project and developed it and marketed it and we
were a huge part of why it's successful.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
And also we have no money. We are actually really broken.
We're in the red.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
You know, it's all it is mental gymnastics, Like it's
bullshit because I just think about some of these shows
that I'm like obsessed with and mam and I watch
over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I mean, I've there's a cartoon I love on that
I watch to go to bed almost every single night.
Like those people that created that show and are doing
the voice like drawing, they how are they not making money?

Speaker 3 (11:42):
I saw what are the creators? What are the creators
of that show?

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Was at my house the other night, and they told
me what, Yeah, well you know who I'm talking about?

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yes, but I don't. You didn't tell me that they
were at your house.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, actually Labor Union Power Couple, if you
know who we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
I don't know. I heart that show up. I know
Lisa does.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
And she was telling me that she's an animation and
she only does union stuff, and that must be really
difficult because animation is so non union, but they need
to change too, Like it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
And also what I don't get how did the directors
settle so fast? It's like that hurts a fuck you too.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
A friend of mine who's in the WGA and pretty
active in the picketing and stuff, told me that she
heard that they regret it now, Like I think that
they don't realize that they could. I don't think they
thought the actors were going to go and now they
don't realize they're not part of this like massive like movement,
which they could have been a really helpful part of.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
But well they they could have just joined the writers.
It's pretty embarrassing that the directors like truly just got
what they wanted and said fuck you to everyone, because
guess what, you're not working now either.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Right right. I just hope it ends quickly.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
We wanted to just give like a quick disclaimer about
the podcast, like our podcast is not affected by the strike,
but we do have guests that we have a few
more guests lefts because you know that we pre tape
our guests and so we have a few more guests
left who taped before we ever there was ever a strike.
We're going to release those episodes, and then after that
we're going to release a few episodes with some surprises maybe,

(13:12):
you know, so just stay tuned. Yeah, but just so
you know, we're not going anywhere. Our pod is good,
everything's everything's good. But we are going to be striking.
We're gonna be on the pickets. Stay tuned, and you know,
where do I find it? It's like, do I really
have to look at email?

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Now?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
I'm even doubly pissed about this strike. Now I have
to check my email fucking find locations.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah, I know I can't set you right, I'll text
it to you. I have it.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
I have it because you know, I got to hit
the fucking pickets.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, you gotta see who We got to see who's
out there?

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Please you and I are the biggest, like like have
binoculars for the celebs, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
I want I want recon jobs though, I want them
to send me off to do like wild shit, like sneaking,
like I just want to choke out a CEO. Don't
cut that Caasy's fight threat.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
I think the exciting stuff at the beginning was that
people were stopping productions, like they were shutting down productions,
like they couldn't the teamsters couldn't get in the iatz,
like the crew couldn't get in, So they were stopping productions.
And it was like, yeah, we shut down the season
finale of Evil or whatever. But now everything's pretty much
shut down. So I think we just to send Lisa
to choke out CEOs.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Why don't you just.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Hang out at like Catch, like a restaurant, like a
fancy restaurant.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh, you know, it wouldn't with like a blow dart.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
You didn't watch The Real Housewives of New York New
season didn't, not yet, not yet, but I know that
there's a reference. Oh Catch is like they're basically like
I wouldn't be caught dead at Catch. It's not two
thousand and six. I'm not a Dalist Mott like they
hate Catch. And it's like, clearly we're going to catch, Like.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yeah, well there's one in La.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
There's one in La and it's and everybody says it's
very beautiful. And my husband used to work for a
late night talk show and the host loved that place
and used to do things there all the time. My
aunt I believe is a small investor in catch. So
I've been dying to go, never been, but we'll go.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
And then one of the housewives, one of the housewives
was like, I mean i'd bring tourists visiting from Florida
and legit our friend and her boyfriend from Florida were
they're two weeks ago. Yeah, so she was like, that.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Tracks so funny.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Well, we've already got the light and the lights were.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
A serious intro.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Join us next week, you know, hopefully you will all
our all our peace for more fun updates. I saw
Broadway shows, I was in New York. You know, there's
things to share. So yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna get
it now. Now it's just strike.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Union.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Okay, guys, check out our tour dates. That's mess up
live dot com. And and I'll enjoy our gorgeous episode.
That is a full on classic. Oh key dope, we
are doing Class today, Season seven, episode seventeen. How am

(16:06):
I the only one who keeps thinking got no class?
No from Chicago? Oh I don't whatever happened to class? Oh?

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, what ever happened to class? Yes, that's a good one.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Actually, what I was singing in my head as I
was pressing snooze on my alarm, and I think it
was my subconscious brain going, we gotta do class. Get up,
Get up, ty, get up. Class that works too, say
by the bell, the new class. I mean, there's a

(16:44):
lot of things. I this is a good one. This
is a I remember this one from Days of Yours
from two thousand and six.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
We open on a car pulling up slowly.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Next to a sex worker, like so many beautiful episodes
of SPU begin, and I immediately recognized this sex worker
as Tika Sumpter. I know her originally from Gossip Girl,
but she's in all the ride along movies, the Sonic,
the Hedgehog movies with your best friend Ben Schwartz. And
but a big thing she's in is the Have and

(17:16):
the have nots.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Well guess smiler Paris.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
So Casey seems shocked by this Ben Schwartz thing.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
I ran into him on another flight.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
And he is still the nicest celebrity in the world.
He waited for me at the gate and we walked
the whole JFK terminal chatting, and when I was saying bye,
he gave me a hot and I go, you're so nice.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
This is crazy. He goes, oh, what you know, what's up?

Speaker 2 (17:43):
And I go, I go, you're so nice, Like I
thought when you saw me you would.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Be like, oh, not this bitch again. She's gonna want
to talk and he was like no, not at all,
and I'm like, who are you? And then everyone I've
told this story about how nice he is, they're like,
he's so fucking hot and I'm like, yeah, I guess
he's hot, nice and talented. Anyways, that was an aside
casey how wild running him on two planes that we're
plain friends.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Now those are plane buddies. We're back to the sex
worker obviously, yes.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
And this was Tika Sumter's first acting gig according to
her IMDb, so kind of exciting. Her name is Vegas,
and she's talking to this dude who's like very nervous.
He obviously hasn't picked someone up before. And she goes, listen,
whatever happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and in context,
I love that.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
I love that. It's a good line.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
They hear a noise and Vegas is like, oh fuck no,
that better not be somebody, As she says, some bitch
work in my stroll. So she starts heading towards this alley,
like she's truly in like a bikini and a fur coat.
She's like strutting towards the alley, tits a jiggling. This
guy runs out, gets into a jeep and speeds off,

(18:54):
and she's like, that's right, you better run, Like it's
like just no fear. She looks down to the sidewalk
gray and sees a blonde girl wrapped in a blanket,
dead as hell. So now we cut to a uniform
officer giving Benson and Stabler the rundown. This is a
rape homicide. Skippy clothes all torn up, dumped under the
gray on a lover's lane. He says, probably a pross.

(19:15):
He says, not not my words. His Vegas called it in.
He calls her your fa your friendly neighborhood hooker. So
there's a lot of little jabs at sex workers here,
because it is two thousand and six. They're not quite
where they are now yet. On SVU, you're gonna love this.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
So there's a comic next to me, and then you know,
our friend Anthony DeVito's sitting with us, and so this
other friend I go, wow, you look good, you look good,
and he goes thanks, and he goes, ugh, I just
got dumped by this stripper. And I go, why is
that worse than being dumped by anybody else? I can't
believe you're so anti sex worker? And then Anthony DeVito
starts laughing. He's like, I've never seen someone get into

(19:53):
a fight so fast.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
He's like, He's like, it turned in one moment from
you look good to how dare you?

Speaker 3 (20:04):
One wrong move, one wrong move, Lisa's gonna get you.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
And then this guy's like I dated her. But I
was like, yeah, but you didn't say I got dumped
by my girlfriend. You may have point you I got
dumped by the right shipper.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
No one ever sits down and goes, oh, I got
dumped by a financial analyst. You know, you just say
I got dumped by my boyfriend. So Vegas doesn't recognize. Unfortunately,
that's all we get from Vegas. She doesn't recognize the girl,
but there have been a lot of newcomers working that
area lately. There was no purse or id found on
the victim. When we get to the body, Melinda's already there,

(20:37):
hard at work talking fluids. She says, no visible fluids,
but this girl's got something on her fingers that live
thinks it's like her fingers are torn up and bloody,
but really it's red paint. She's got red paint on
her fingers. And Melinda's like, nothing around here looks like
this color. It must be from where she was killed,
you know, file that away for later. Strangle marks indicate
she was killed around midnight or twelve thirty am. And

(21:00):
then they hear a voice called detectives, and I can
know immediately from the voice that it is CSU Captain
Judith Cziper and friend of the pod.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
I know her voice before I even see her.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
And she's like, found the purse, and in the purse
we've got lipstick, perfume, breath, mint, condoms, no license, but
a college id from where the fuck else?

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Hudson University.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Now, the character's name is Caroline Pereira, but her id
is missing in r and just says Caroline perea So
just a fuck up from the prop department.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Come on, guys, let's get it together.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
I know it's two thousand and six and a lot's
going on, but you know, the twenty four hour news
cycle and Britney Spears and Paris Hulton and all that
but like, let's get the names right. So they also
find her phone. There's a blurry picture on it from
right around the time of her death. You can't like
see if it's a person, but there's like a like
an orb of light in it, and so they're like,

(21:53):
oh my god, did she get a picture of her attacker?
Boom credits. So now we're with an other Pod buddy,
Joel de Lafuente. This episode, I wouldn't say is star studded,
but it's a lot of familiar people to me, like
Tika sumpter As just like the opening body Finder, she
has like two million followers on Instagram, like she's a
star now. So there's a lot of people in here

(22:14):
that I will go into later that I know.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, it is wild, Like in five years, will we
just be like they've been on the pod and a
friend of the pod and another friend of the pod.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, I hope.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
So that's all we'll have. We'll have had everybody. Anyone
will be a friend of ours. So now we're with
pod buddy Joel de Lafuente aka Ruben morale Is aka
Taru and Stablers like can you enhance it? And we
all know enhancing is like not real, like they did
it on Adam ruins everything, Like the shit they the
trope of police procedurals that you can just like click

(22:45):
a button and all the pixels go away and it's
a clearer picture is bullshit. And Taru agrees. He's like, listen,
cell phones take shitty pictures, like I can't do anything
about it. And the parents are coming to New York
City to id the body from Lagrange. I google Lagrange
and there's a Lagrange in Illinois. In Texas, there's like
a bunch of us, so I wasn't sure where that was.

(23:06):
But Stabler's like, wow, what a cliche small town girl
makes money hooking in the big city. And Finn's like,
wouldn't be the first time a college girl's flat backed
her way to a diploma. Damn, these guys are on
it with the terms. And at Hudson they find out
that Caroline was on work study. She washed dishes at
the cafeteria but quit at the start of the semester.

(23:28):
That's got to be brutal at a school like Hudson,
to like be washing dishes for your classmates, Like, I mean,
I knew people that were on work study and they
did tons of stuff. And it wasn't washing dishes for
like the your because it just seems like it's like
a richie rich school. So it just feels like it's
a very big have and have not situation. Speaking of
Tika Sumpter's former credit so, and I remember I was saying, definitely,

(23:52):
students worked in the like everyone was working everywhere.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Oh okay, it just didn't like, yeah, like jobs.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
And my school people had work study jobs all over
the place. It just wasn't that like it wasn't washing dishes,
but it was like doing like a lot of other things.
But so you had so students weren't working in the cafeterias. No, No,
that was like fully staff like there was like employees
of a company because they were a separate company, like

(24:19):
you didn't work for the school, like they worked for
a company called like Marriott. And I because I remember
I had a jacket that said Marmott and one of
the ladies. We loved this one lady and she was like,
oh my god, I love your jacket. It says Marriott.
I was like, it says Marmott, But I do love
you guys. I don't have a Marriott jacket. But I
love you guys, and we like gave her a big
present when we graduated. We were like obsessed with this

(24:39):
one woman that worked at the cave. Now I'm an
asshole that's forgetting her name, but they don't.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
I you're such an asshole you don't remember her name
from twenty years ago.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
I know.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
But like we loved her, like we always said hi
to her. She was so nice and like we gave
her like this big like I think we just, like
our whole class like put together money for her at
the end of the year because we were like, she rules.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
I wonder if the other employees are like damn, I know,
they're probably like fuck that.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
There was also a guy behind the grill that everybody
really loved, who made the chopped chicken and cheese for everybody.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Anyway, my favorite was weekends. We had an omelet bar.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
I don't want to brag, but we had an omelet
bar all the time. I just love an omelet bar.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Or where when we play in San Diego that hotel
has an omelet bar.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember we go outside and.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Have an omelet Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
I like that because I don't think I would order
an omelet, but if I see a station, I'm running.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, because like because there's never like I mean, so
I guess sometimes there is on the menu, it's never
the exact omelet you want. And then at the omelet bar,
it's your world. But back to this story. They the
woman that they're talking to is the burser at this college,
and she's like, they don't have to work at the
school as long as the bill gets paid and Caroline

(25:54):
payter bills. And she did it in cash, baby, And
they're like, you don't care how a twenty year old
came in yere fifteen thousand dollars in cash. She's like,
none of my business as long as it's American green, baby,
and they I keep interrupting.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
So our friend Julia, when I met her, she was
working at like the student affairs office at the college
I went to, Yeah, so that's how we kind of met.
But because I was just paying my tuition with checks,
she thought I was like, you know, and it's the
north Shore.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
She just thought I was like a rich, spoiled north
Shore girl.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
And then cut to us becoming friends and her meeting
my senior citizens Soviet parents and she was like, this
is not what I expected with you just paying tuition.
I was like, no, I ruined my parents' life, like
I am a spoiled brat and they needed me to graduate.
But they did pay for college, which is incredible, and
I apologize to them all the time. I'm like, I'm

(26:50):
so sorry. I could have gone to any old school.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
You're going to get them back. Didn't you bought your
dad a Faberge egg. I think you guys are even.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
I think an apology is worth a lot to them.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
But it was funny, she said before we got to
be friends that she just thought I was like the
richest girl in school paying tuition.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
That's so funny because did you have your like little
blonde highlights and you were like o'ous fresh from a
White Sox game.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Okay, I have well, But the thing is I didn't
have a north Face fleece. I had a Columbia fleece.
And that means you're poor where I come. Well, yeah,
I hear what you're saying. Yes, I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
You know what, I always think of as rich people
because I have a few rich friends, people that like
read and this actually is you too, Lisa, So maybe
like I'm maybe I'm this is my friends that are rich,
like would always just reach into their bags and there
would be cash, just like cash floating around, and I'm like,
my cash is in my wallet like lined up, I
know exactly how much is there?

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Lisa just.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
She just flashed to the camera a lot of f
random money. But that's different for you because you get
paid in cash a lot from from stand up, Like
my rich friends would just like reach into a bag
like a toad and it would be like an expensive
skin cream and then just like twenties and fives just
like everywhere, and I'd be like, wow, you just have
money in there, like it's a wadded up tissue.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
And you know what's even sexier is paying in cash.
Nothing like putting a few hundreds down at dinner.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
I mean that's that's like one of the best parts
of New York is getting spot pay and it's cash
and you just are like, is this even real?

Speaker 3 (28:24):
It feels like monopoly And I.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Don't know, Yeah, it's nice because you kind of have
your balance in your head and like when you spend
money like on cards or like Venmo you like your
balance goes down when it's cash, it's like, oh, I'm
just floating. I'm just still where I want, you know,
Like it's like cash is just carrying you through. I
never have cash on me, and it's like I'm getting
it for something I would probably do for free.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
I know I would. I did it for years.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, so just to get this cash always feels feels nice.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
But yeah, Well the Bling Ring documentary about those girls,
like that group, they said when they went into Paris
Hilton's house and were like going through her purses, it
was just hundreds and hundreds of extra cash in all
these purses, just in pans that you like the way
that you find a fiver and you're like, yay, cool,
this is gonna be a good day.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
She said, oh my god. Yeah, yeah, that's we're okay.
All right.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Well, speaking of speaking of a richie rich people, this
Burster tells the cops that Caroline Perrera has a roommate
named Gloria Colhane. So now we go visit Gloria and
she is classic college bitch, Like she's wearing kind of
like a matching like it looks like it would be
a juicy cature sweatsuit and like baby pink, but it's

(29:39):
like it doesn't have like a like a juicy on
the late, like it's probably even more like a super
expensive label. And she's like Caroline, she has just has
like she's beautiful. This actress is Trieste Kelly Dunn, and
she just has like a classic like good bitch, like
villainy face, like I can almost like tell she's involved immediately.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
And fashion is so of this era.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
It is her face, her makeup, her hair, everything about
her is perfect rich these this is a rich girl.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
You're right, yeah, yeah, this girl's got twenties and fifties
fucking floating around her bag. And she's like Caroline and
I never hung out. We run in different circles. And
it's like what a way to say she's trash and
I'm you're up. She's basically like I'm up here, Bethany,
and you're down here. Vinn compliments a big ass ring
on Gloria's finger and then she's like thanks, and it's

(30:31):
kind of weird. It's like on her pointer and it's
this big ass like diamond. Gloria explains that she spent
last semester in France and she forgot to fill out
the housing form, which is why she's in this shitty
dorm with a stranger. And I just like, kind of,
I'm like, you seem very rich, Like you would not
be with a stranger at Hudson University. You'd be in
an apartment, like your parents would get you an apartment.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
But I guess we'd.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
All but I think some parents want their kids to
have a real experience, because I remember Madonna's daughter went
to like you, University of Michigan or something, and I
think she was just in the dorms, like trying to
be normal or I'm ring folly. Yeah, no, that could
be true, but like Michigan would be a good place
to be in the dorms. It's like there's like a city,
Like you're in New York City and you're rich. Like
people at NYU only stay in the dorms for like

(31:13):
one year. In my college, we were in the dorms
all four years. We wanted to stay on doors. I
get like we wanted it, Like it's like I'm in Hartford,
I want to get an apartment, not really, you know,
like in New York, I feel like everybody wants to
kind of like get out. But whatever we're going with
the story that she's in, like, you know, a fucking
dorm with a stranger. And she says, all I know
is about her is that she went out a lot,

(31:34):
and I have no clue where she stayed out late,
and she would look like shit going to class. Then Finn,
speaking of finding cash, I didn't even like, we didn't
even set this up. Finn finds a fat stack of
cash in this girl's like little dorm room closet, and.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
She's like, I like the girl.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Gloria goes, I doubt it came from your parents, like
they're poor, Ill. And they find a picture of Caroline
and some dude and are like, oh, is this her boyfriend?
And Gloria's like, no, that's her best friend. They just
went to high school together and he also goes to Hudson.
So now we're walking and talking to Adam, the guy
from the picture, and he's really broken up about Caroline dying.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
They've been friends since childhood.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
This actor is named will Estes, like the name is familiar.
He has like such a forgettable face, like I cannot
memorize it, Like from scene to scene, I'm like, who
is that? Like I have like prosopagnosia with this man,
which is face blindness, what Brad Pitt has. I think
you can take a drink because that's a wild word.
He just said, Oh gus. I tried to do a
joke about it for a long time, like Brad Pitt

(32:34):
has prosopagnosia, which is face blindness. Like he says he
can't remember people, and I'm like, I think you're just
rich and don't care about memorizing people that aren't important.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
But I think it's meeting a lot of people. I think,
if you because I'm I used to be so good
at remembering everybody, right, And I think with our line
of work and like traveling and show you, we do
meet so many people that I've gotten worse at it.
I have, Yeah, And it's also so famous famous.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
No at our meet and green, I'm always like, you
came to the show last time, right, And like half
the time I'm right, and half the time they're like
no first time, Like I think I know people, but
you know, also some people just have those faces anyway.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
I just never understood.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
But that's why it's more impressive when you hear about
the Bill Clinton's the Tom Hanks when they remember everybody everybody, Yeah,
for decades, Like yeah, that truly is impressive because the
amount of people Brad Pitt meets and what an effect
he has on them. I can't imagine. I would say
a million people a year. Yeah, maybe that's well.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
This guy will stays.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
I don't know if he meets as many people, but
he is a regular on Blue Bloods. He's been on
like two hundred plus episodes of Blue blood So if
your mom's listening to the podcast, she probably knows who
this guy is. I just hear blue Bloods is a
parent show. Anyway, they ask him about the money, and
he says, well, Caroline said she had a new job.
And they tell him, well, we found her in an
area known for sex work and he's like, no way,
she would never And he says he has no idea

(33:53):
how she got the cash. And they tell him they're
going to bring him downtown and he caves immediately and
he's like, all right, all right, Caroline's been selling term papers.
The school lot started an investigation, and a professor named
doctor Feruke is leading the charge.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Boom, Okay, that never happened.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
When I went to college, Like people either just like
cheated offline or whatever, you just like didn't buy a
paper from someone else. But now talking to doctor Feruke,
who is I mean now with chat GPT, like I
feel like professors are fucked, Like kids are just going
to totally have everything written by a robot. But now
we're talking to doctor Feruke, who's explaining that plagiarism is
an epidemic at Hudson. I'm like, you know what else

(34:31):
is an epidemic at Hudson sexual assault, and you guys
are doing there is no investigation being launched.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
It's like so funny to me.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
She goes, the internet has only made it easier to
buy and sell academic work.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
I mean, doctor Feruke.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Is not psyched about chat GPT if she's still working today.
She shows them this program that she has that like
you know, probably borrows from AI, where she scans the
papers and can find unoriginal material and patterns to find
out who's plagiarizing. So she shows them like, see, these
three students are an example, and they've all cheated, but

(35:05):
none of them wrote the original paper, and I just
have to find out who did, and I'll expel all
of them. And so they ask her about Caroline, and
she said, oh no, she took my class last semester.
She's an excellent student, her work is wholly original. She
would never need to cheat. But like, I don't think
she suspects that Caroline is the source of the cheating,
like she's the one giving the papers. Stabler's like, I

(35:26):
need the three people's names who cheated. And I'm like,
that's like really random, this one, Like she's been selling
them all over school. You need these three people's names.
But anyway, it's kind of a reach for me police
work wise. But he shows up to a deli where
some stoner is like singing the praises of Pepper and Chini.
His name is Mark Duffy, and he's like, I need
to talk to you. And Mark looks nervous as hell.

(35:47):
He's like in the middle of manny'sing down a six
inch and he looks really nervous. And so he's like,
all right, I had bought one term paper from Caroline?

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Is that a crime?

Speaker 1 (35:57):
And they're going through a bunch of different interviews here,
you know, they're doing that thing or they cut to
different people. So now we cut to this douchebag taking
a break from playing squash, and I don't want to brag,
but my alma mater, Trinity College, was the number one
squash school for.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
A really long time. That was like our claim to fame.
It was like Trinity versus Stanford for best in squash.
So crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
I don't even really fully understand how you play squash,
but you hit a ball against a wall. So he
explains that you just emailed Caroline your assignment what you needed.
She'd send you back two options. You pay for the
one you like. And he's like, you just paid to
a pay me pronto dot com account, which that sounds
really lame. Payipronto dot com, But in two thousand and six,
like we didn't really have like venmo or I mean,

(36:40):
PayPal was probably a new thing, so kind of high
tech that she's getting paid on paymipronto dot com And
it was two hundred dollars of paper, which with inflation
you'd have to say now would be like four hundred
maybe five hundred. Now we're talking to some girl who's like, yeah,
I'm pre med I don't have time to read The
Fairy Queen and write about the imagery of virtue for
some redictable, ridiculous English requirement and I was like, Lol,

(37:03):
that was my entire major, so hilarious. That's what I
spent all the money on. Stabler tells this girl, well,
Caroline was murdered, and then she gets like really quiet
and goes, I gotta go, and Stabler's like, okay, you
can't like act so obvious in front of the cops,
like why are you so spooked? And she goes because
of Brian and explains that Brian Tausend is in Feruk's

(37:25):
class two and bought a bunch of papers off of Caroline.
He got really nervous when Feruk started investigating and said
he was going to take care of the problem. So
now we're at a bar with a pool table and
this guy with a spiky flat top, flat on top
hair is like, so I bought papers, it's not a crime,
and Finn's like, well, Caroline was murdered, and he's like,
I didn't kill her.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
I was going to bribe her.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
I offered her one thousand dollars to keep quiet, and
she laughed in his face and started waving that huge
diamond ring around and said it would take a lot
more than a g to keep her ass quiet, and
Finn's like, sounds like the ring Gloria was wearing, but
bah bah bah making connections, and the guy's like, oh,
Gloria's bought papers off Caroline. She's bought more papers than
anyone off Caroline, and she was freaking out about the investigation.

(38:09):
So now uh, back to go talk to bitchy micmitch face.
They bust into the lecture hall. It's like, so it's
fluorescent lighting. It's full professor Like. I know that they
shoot on location at an actual lecture hall because it's
so real, like just that lighting when you're so hungover
and you have to like listen to a professor talk
like oh, I was getting flashbacks.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
So there's some professors droning on.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Gloria looks bored as fucked, and then the cops just
walk up to her and are like we need to talk,
and she's like, I'm not going anywhere. She is just
like really fun to watch, like she has no fear
of cops or authority. She's like, what bye, I'm busy
like and stables. She's rich, Yeah, exactly, she's privilege. It's
full privilege. And that's like why the episode's called class.

(38:51):
I feel like it's a double entendre this class college
and there's class like the different classes of all these kids.
So Stabler's like, sweetie, to rest you here in front
of everyone and take you out of here in cuffs.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
You want that?

Speaker 1 (39:03):
And she's like, oh bye, big eye. Roll goes with them,
and Finn goes to the rest of the class, sorry
for interrupting. Stay in school. Amazing. I love a Finn
telling everyone to stay in school. And so that's the
end of act one, is taking this little bitch out
of her college class. So now at the top of
back two, Gloria is an interrogation like this is crazy.

(39:23):
I would never kill anyone. The ring was just sitting
on Caroline's dresser, so I borrowed it, Like what do
you care? And they're like, where were you last night?
And she goes a cappella rehearsal, which I fucking love.
Of course, this bitch does acapella, Like of course. When
I was in college, I actually tried out for the
a cappella group and I got a callback and went
to an all day audition and then didn't get it,

(39:44):
and I was devastated. I just want everyone to know
that acapella has a real It's a real trigger for
me because I was very close but I didn't get in.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
And they like it was like the one.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
All girl group that was like all gorgeous girls, like
Rachel Platten was in this acappella group. The pop star.
I mean, she's kind of a pop star. She was
in Taylor's gang for like five seconds, but she was
in this one at my college, so of course she
does a cappella. She says, I didn't like Caroline, but
I had no reason to kill her. And they're like, well,
you were about to get expelled with this cheating scandal,

(40:15):
and she's like, lol, Hudson doesn't expel anyone. It's like, yeah,
they've let so many rapists go back to lacrosse practice
like nothing ever happened. I don't know why anyone thinks
that anyone's getting expelled. Gloria explains, like, yeah, high grades
keep parents happy, happy, parents are big donors, Like the
school doesn't really give a shit about cheating. Then points out, oh, well,
your family has a building named after you, and a

(40:36):
couple of wings and a hospital and a museum.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
See what I mean.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
A girl with a wing named after her at the
college is not going to be in a dorm room
with a stranger. Like she's going to call the school
and go give me my own like double and I'll
live in it by myself that her parents will. I mean,
so if Caroline talked and you got kicked out of school,
that would really fuck up your future. And she's like,
do you guys honestly think I could kill Caroline? And
I'm like, I guess you just don't know what seen,

(41:00):
because yes, they think that you could definitely kill Caroline.
They go, why don't we just call the press, call
Han heiress in murder investigation? And it's like, oh, I wrote,
I wrote in my notes plot hole. She's an heiress.
Why would she be in campus housing? So obviously this
was a big thing for me as I was taking
my notes. And she goes, wait, wait, don't call anyone.
So obviously the press thing does scare her a little bit,
and Finn goes to check on her acappella alibi and

(41:23):
Stabler's like, okay, tell me what's up. Gloria starts to
spill to Stabler that Caroline bragged about ripping off a rich,
famous guy for the ring. All she said was that
he'd wake up the next morning and miss it real bad.
So now we're walking her out and she's like, I
told you my alibi was good, and Finn goes singing
the Indigo Girls in five part harmony.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
That's painful. Ah fa, that is meant for you.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
That sentence is meant for you, and this sentence is
meant for me, Like put it on a T shirt
for me.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Like, wait, have I seen the video where it's like
Sarah Paul Sin take Nataro, all these people in a
party bus going to the Indigo Girls concert or like
home from It all sing and they're all singing a song.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they're all singing like Galileo or something.
I love the Indigo Girls and I see if I
try like five times. I'm a big Indigo Girls fan.
I watched them live during the pandemic and was like
crying because I was like, what's happening to the world,
Like I love the Indigo Girls and I love that.
Finn's like, fuck the Indigo Girls. So Stabler goes, well, listen,

(42:23):
we might need to talk to you again, so don't
hop on any flights to France, and she goes, mmm.
Cop comedian is there anything you don't do? It's like, yes, parents, children,
but also this girl is so funny to me. I
like love that she's just like tossing it back in
Stabler's face. Finn tel's Stabler. He talked to some connects
about the ring and it's a double D. It stands

(42:44):
for Stabler, goes, I think there's a different sizing system
for rings, Finn, I don't think it's the same as
tits like, it's such a stupid comment, and Finn's like, yeah,
it's double D is diamond Dove. He's an Israeli jeweler
to the Star Stars, which sounds like they're referencing Jacob
the jeweler, who's like a famous jeweler who you know,
makes rings for athletes, rappers, famous people of all stripes.

(43:06):
So if Caroline was turning tricks, maybe she stole the
ring from a John, a rich and famous john. Maybe
she set up a meet to return the ring. She
shows up empty handed. He loses control and apparently this
ring is worth about one hundred thousand dollars. If it's custom,
double d diamond Dove can tell us who he made
it for. So now we're at Diamond Dove's shop. He
makes art, he says, and the celebrities around the world

(43:27):
are his collectors, and he's not about to give the
cops any personal information on any of his clients. And
Stabler goes, why don't I call the irs, And Dove's like,
hold on a minute, let me give you some personal
information on my clients. Like immediately is like, let's chill out,
and folds and he's like, I made this ring for
a football player named Roddy Franklin. We cool cool, So
Stableer and Finn both know exactly who Roddy is and

(43:49):
they know all his playing stats. He's a wide receiver
for New Jersey. New Jersey doesn't have an NFL team,
but I guess the Jets maybe playing New Jersey anyway.
He's got one thousand yards nine touchdowns last season. You know,
I don't care what any of this means. They go
to Roddy's house and the actor playing him is Matthew
Saint Patrick, who I recognize from Six Feet Under. He

(44:09):
is was Michael Seahall's boyfriend on that show in the
first season at least. And his two sons are like
playing football and spazing in the living room and They
show him the ring and he's like, oh, where'd you
find this? And he's like, I don't. I must have
lost it. I travel a lot. They say, where did
you go two nights ago? And he says, I took
the kids to their grandma's with my wife. He says
he's never seen Caroline before. When they show a picture

(44:31):
and now Finn is talking to the wife and she
corroborates the grandma story and she's like, oh, the ring.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, I wasn't surprised that thing got stolen.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I told him it was dumbed to buy a ring
that costs more than our first home. And so back
to Stabler and Roddy and he's like, oh, okay, so
she must have been the one who found my lost ring.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Give me your name. I'll send her a reward.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
So Stabler goes make it out to Caroline Pereira in
Care of the Afterlife. He never stops work, shopping jokes.
Stabler tells him that she was murdered and that the
ring is evidence in a homicide. You'll have to wait
till we find the killer. Outside, Stabler talks to Finn
and we can tell we're outside like a mansion. We
walk past a sports car. This guy's got money, money, money,

(45:10):
and they're like, this guy loses a rock worth one
hundred K and doesn't report it, Like they think maybe
Franklin is caroline sugar daddy, and he's like not telling
them obviously. Back at the sixteenth Precinct, Craigan's like, all right,
what do we know about this dude? And they're like, oh,
he keeps a low profile. After that thing that happened
with a stripper a few years back, his wife caught
him and bought He bought his wife a diamond necklace

(45:31):
that costs more than an aircraft carrier to make up
for it. Maybe this was a mistake he couldn't afford.
He had to make Caroline disappear. Stabler comes in with
a lead. Caroline was in Atlantic City at the same
time as Roddy a few weeks back, and that's a
great place to take a mistress. People are discreet there,
And I'm like, I don't think I think of the
word discreet when I think of Atlantic City, but I
guess in terms of you know, affairs. Now they're in

(45:53):
Atlantic City and the guy at the Hotel del Mar
tells them that Roddy is a frequent guest and recently
was in town for a celeb poker tournament two months ago.
The guy recognizes Caroline immediately and asks, oh, did he
finally catch up with her? And they tell him, uh, well,
she's dead, and he's like, I got something you got
to see. So cuts to them watching security footage of

(46:14):
Caroline and Roddy gambling in a private high stakes room
high rollers only, and he comes there. He came there
after this celebrity tournament that he was playing in, and
they're like, what about Caroline, how'd she get in the game,
and he goes, oh, she's down here every other weekend,
like we comp her, meals, her room, like.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
She's a player.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
On the tape, they see Roddy betting his ring because
he had a great hand, but then Caroline beats him
with an even better hand and then she puts the
ring on, and in the video she's in his face
being like Nana, Nana, Nana, I got your ring, like
she's super taunting him and he looks pissed. So they
show up in the locker room now to talk to Roddy.
He's got one of those leather jackets on that has

(46:53):
like big fur trim and he's like telling all his
buddies some kind of big story. Everyone's listening to him
in the locker room, and then they're like, we got
to talk to you. So they all head outside and
they're like, Roddy, start talking. We've got you on tape
with a girl you told us you didn't even know.
Why did you lie to us? He goes, because I
wasn't supposed to be there. The league has me on
probation for gambling. I obviously am best friends with Amanda

(47:14):
Rollins and I have a problem. They let him play
in these charity tournaments because all the money goes to
people in need, Like I can't keep any of the money.
But then this girl fleeced me at the table. If
the commissioner finds out about it, I'm gonna get fined.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
I could get suspended.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
So he is nervous and they're like, okay, well a
murder charge will also be bad. And he's like, no, no, no,
I did not kill this bitch. And he goes, but
I know who did, so he tells them it's got
to be this guy who runs the underground poker game.
Roddy was like, I tried to buy the ring back
from Caroline, but she said I had to win it back,
so I invited her to a private game in New
York City.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
But she was a ringer. She was beating everyone.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
She became a regular, and he eventually figured that he
would get his ring back at some point, so like whatever.
A couple nights ago, she had a streak of really
bad luck and owed the house one hundred and fifty k,
and the guy that runs the game said she had
twenty four hours to pay the money back or else.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
I don't really know.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
If bookies like kill people, like we did another episode
about this where they were like dead men don't pay
their debts. Like you could kill someone, but you don't
get your one hundred and fifty k back, so it's
better to just like terrorize them and like threaten their
family and stuff until they come up with the money,
you know. But that's just what I've learned from SVU.
I obviously am not a in a professional gambling ring,
though I could. I'm really addicted to gambling. This guy,

(48:28):
his name is Riley. He says he's got ice water
in his veins. It's like he can kill you and
order out for pizza right after he lives very close
by to where they found Caroline's body. Cut to them
raiding Riley's game, and it's hard to tell this, but
Riley is played by an actor named Nick Sandau, who
is Capudo from Orange Is the New Black.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
You can't really tell because he has no facial hairy.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
He just looks so different, like he's kind of a
man who without a mustache. It's like a different face.
And he's like, what the hell's going on here? This
is a friendly social gathering. Nothing's going on on and
they go, yeah, friends don't steal friends life savings, and
that's Finn says that as he's cuffing Riley out in
the alley, Stabler notices check this out. There's a wall
covered in red paint like what was on Caroline's hands

(49:12):
and under her nails when they found her body. So
done done, maybe she was killed there. Cut to the
holding cell and Riley is like, call my lawyer. You're
gonna pay for this, YadA, YadA, YadA. He tells Finn
to shove it up his ass, and Finn is about
to like maybe punch him through the bars when Daddy
Craigan intervenes and goes my office, which we all know
what that means. In Craigan's office, there's a guy from

(49:34):
the Secret Service and he goes Riley's with us, and
I'm like, the Secret Service, Like he's a federal agent
named Doug Kirsten, That's who Capudo is. And they're like,
he's been undercover targeting underground gambling clubs. Why would the
Secret Service have anything to do with that? Like, was
this just supposed to say FBI.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
I thought the Secret Service was just to protect politicians
and the president and his family and stuff.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
So I'm confused about that.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
But then I think Finn goes of all the gin
joints in this city. We had to walk into yours,
which is a twist on a quote from Casablanca. And
you've got to give it to Finn. Indigo girls, Casablanca.
He's got all the cultural references and.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
A big Finn episode.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah, stay in school, Indigo girls. You know, he assures them,
Doug Curson is not your killer, Like he'll brief you guys,
but we got to keep his cover because like this
is a you know, it's always like this is a
three year operation. You can't blow it. So they do
this whole charade where like they lead him out of
the precinct and they're talking shit to each other walking
him to the elevator, and then right before the doors closed,

(50:37):
he goes ATREUM fifty six and fifth, nine am tomorrow.
So now we're at this place in full public. I
don't know why they're not in somewhere private, but we're
walking and talking with the cops over coffee. He basically
admits that he did dump the body. He says, one
of my bouncers was there, and he wouldn't believe that
I would call the cops because like we're all criminals,
you know. So he didn't want to blow a fifteen

(50:58):
month investigation, so he left her under the grate to
try to preserve evidence. And he doesn't feel good about it,
but he was trying to like, you know, keep chain
of custody and have her be found quickly, but not
you know, give up that he's a cop. So Caroline
left the club. They heard yelling in the alley. He
went to go check it out. They found her dead,
the killer gone. So he tells them that Caroline also

(51:21):
gambled online and that she had just been booted from
a website called pokerfastlane dot com. Two good websites, Pay
Me Pronto pokerfastlane dot com. You know, s Fu always
coming up with these good URLs she got and Finn goes, yeah,
you get kicked off of those sites for cheating, And
Kirsten goes and he was like, how do you cheat online?

(51:41):
And Kirsten's like, you cheat online the same way you
do in real life. Two people sit at separate computers
and they're working together. So Caroline had a silent partner,
and with her dead and the partner a secret, the debt,
it disappears and it's the hell of a motive to
kill someone. So now Taru is taking us through the
stats on Caroline's pokerfastlane dot com account, and every time
Caroline logged on, so did a user with the id

(52:04):
Jack King. And Stabler goes, well, that's got to be
a code name. It's like, good job, Stabler, Jack King. Yes,
definitely a code name on a poker site. He's got
a log back on at some point to try to score,
So let's smoke him out invite him to a game.
But the invite has to come from someone who he knows.
Let's have Riley do it cut to a private gambling party.
Finn and Stabler are at the table undercover. They get

(52:26):
a buzz for someone to be let in and it's
Jack King. When he walks in, Stabler turns around and
goes hi, Jack, and immediately recognizes it's Adam Done Done,
Caroline's old high school bestie. This guy Adam. They arrest
him immediately for Caroline's murder, and he looked. He immediately
has his look on his face like, oh, how did
I fall for this? It's like, well, you kind of

(52:47):
have a face like you'd fall for it. So anyway,
at the precinct, suddenly Olivia is back in the picture.
She's been gone at a doctor's appointment. This might be
the season where she's pregnant. I think it actually is.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
You know, I've been falling asleep test for you again,
and you know what sucks when you follow asleep to
a Benson and then you wake up and it's Danny
Beck's voice and you're like, get the fuck out of
my life.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
We have to decide if we actually want to get
that woman on the podcast. We talked so much shit, but.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
I mean we can ask her like, do you know
people hate your character? And how do you feel about that?
I know she must have an inkling.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
At the precincts. Suddenly Olivia's back from a doctor's appointment.
I guess she's pregnant. This season, she's been going the
whole episode since the very beginning. Now she's back, and
she's got a little download on Adam's life. She's like,
he doesn't come from much. He's from the same like Lagrange, whatever,
we don't know what state that is, from working class parents,
no rap sheet. Olivia is like, why do you ask

(53:48):
me to dig up the SOB story on the sky?
Don't we usually leave that to the defense attorneys? And
Stabler's like, I know there's more to Adam than just
murdering his best friend to cover a debt. So then
you know this is one of the things where Stabler
takes interest in a particular like, you know, straight white
man who.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Needs his help.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
So he goes in to talk to Adam and he says,
I can tell when a good kid gets pulled into
a bad thing. And he says, Caroline and I were
bff's for life. They just wanted to get the hell
out of Lagrange. And he said when they got to Hudson.
It was more bullshit. They were just poor kids from
the boonies there washing dishes, serving meals. Caroline couldn't take it.
She started selling term papers and that's when they started

(54:23):
their poker partnership. He goes, we'd work different clubs, we'd
switch and trade in fu about the regulars, and the
money just rolled in.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Caroline paid her tuition.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Adam said he used the money for the good life clubs, restaurants, concerts,
hanging with the rich kids. He's like, I wasn't invisible anymore.
It was like I had a whole new life. And
then he says, and then it was like Caroline screwed
it up. And he's like, I told her to take
things slow, not to be greedy. She wouldn't listen to me.
He was going to lose everything. She dug them in
a hole so deep I knew we would never get out.
And he just did not want to go back to

(54:52):
being invisible. And he says it was an accident. I
didn't mean to do it, and Stabler goes, you need
a lawyer, so you know, usually stablers like give me
that confession, baby, but this time he's really trying to
help this kid. So now we're at Novak's office. She
does not have the time of day for Stabler. She
is also extremely blonde. I think she has to get
to a highlighting appointment because she is the blondest I've

(55:13):
ever seen her. He goes, just give me one second.
He goes, I just want you to go easy on
this kid. I think he's a good kid, and like,
will you please plead him out? And she's like, he
confessed to murder, Like why would I do that? I'm
Casey Novak And Stabler's like, I have a soft spot
for poor kids who have to run with the rich dogs.
And Stablers like, Casey, you and I were both poor.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
You get it. I don't think I knew that.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
I don't think I remember Casey coming from like hard,
hard beginnings or whatever. And Casey's like, yeah, I waited
tables in law school and I serve my classmates. It sucked,
but I didn't kill anyone. And at least make sure
he gets a good public defender, he says, and she goes,
I'll make a call. So now we're in court and
the guy who walks in to represent Adam is an
actor named Joey Slotnik. I don't know if you know him,

(55:54):
but he famously is in Niptuck as a guy named Boblet. Like,
whenever I see this character, I go Bobla like because
it's such a weird name, and that's like who this
guy is to me. I think it's only six episodes
of Niptock, but he's a wild like he's got like
one of these faces like.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
That you just remember.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
And he was also a regular series regular on The
Single Guy with our friend of the Pad Jonathan Silverman.
So I saw that he's like he's on the cover
of the show poster and he's playing a lawyer named
Walter Camp clearly pricey because Casey is shocked to see him,
and he's like, oh, I'm doing this case pro bono.
He actually knows Adam from the poker clubs. So now

(56:31):
in court it's Queen Lena Petrowski presiding and this guy
Walter enters a plea of not guilty for Adam by
reason of mental disease or defect, claiming it's gambling addiction.
Now Casey's talking to Walter and she's like, your defense
is bullshit, and Walter's like, two percent of this country
are gambling addicts. Casey's like, I'm not buying it. He goes,

(56:51):
if one juror has a gambler in their lives.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Two percent, not even that much, is it? Two percent?

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Well, I guess two percent of this country is like
two million people.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Spread across the whole country.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Yeah, the chances of someone on the jerky, I just
don't think it's that big of a number.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
But then, like a main character on this show is
a gambling addict. A few seasons later, like you know,
so I.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Guess his thing is like you got me, Yeah, I
mean his thing is like if one person even knows
a gambling addict, like you know, they'll hear my witnesses
and you'll lose.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
So let's just plead him down, and Casey's with you.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Casey's like, fuck that, there probably won't be Like don't
I've got this guy dead to right, so forget it.
First up on the stand now we're in court, is
a member of the Hudson University Card Club, and he's
this dork. He only places small bets and Adam wanted
bigger pots. He thought Adam was out of control and addicted,
and he was trying to take money from people that
they didn't have on redirect, Walter establishes that Hudson pays

(57:48):
for the card club, so they might be responsible for
hooking Adam on poker, Like, yeah, let's get Hudson.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
They have deep pockets, let's sue them.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
The kid on the stand tells them how one time
Adam lost a bunch of hands and went full Teresa
Judae I flipped the table.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
They had to call security.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Apparently that witness is makes a big impression on the jury,
because Walter goes to Casey, you should have taken the
plea and Casey's like, no, he wasn't high when he
killed her.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
He was fully in control.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
And Walter is like, you obviously don't get gambling addiction,
and then he opens up about his own story. He goes,
I lost thirty thousand dollars in one night playing poker.
I tried to recoup the next night and I lost
forty thousand more. My wife jammed my laptop down the
garbage chute and made me get counseling, but I kept playing.
What finally got him to stop was that Loan Sharks
broke his leg. And he's like and Casey's like, okay, sure,

(58:35):
but you didn't kill your wife to pay the loan
sharks with insurance money. You never lost your mind and
like a resorted to violence. And this is interesting because
you know what, this reminds me of an episode of
Iced Teas podcast that I iced. He got the best
guests on his podcast, and he has an episode where
he talks to a guy who lost like I think
a million dollars in a summer or something crazy, just

(58:58):
gambling and like spending it on crazy shit. So if
you want to check that out, that's part of the
final level Iced Tea's old podcast. So now Casey and
Stabler are in a walk and talk with Huang, and
Stabler thinks Walter is a snake oil salesman, and Huang argues, no, Casey,
this is serious. Gamblers lose it all. They bring their
families down to gambling. Addicts are just chasing that dopamine

(59:19):
rush the same way as a drinker or a drug user.
Stabler's not buying this shit, Huang as usual as asking
what we're all thinking, like what's going on with you
and this kid to Stabler like what's happening?

Speaker 3 (59:31):
What's your connection?

Speaker 1 (59:32):
And Stabler now takes us down memory lane where He's like,
I was nineteen working at my uncle's bar. These two
rich punks jumped me. They had spit in my face
earlier because I wouldn't serve them. They had no ID,
and he busted one of the kids over their head
with a glass bottle and he almost died. I'm like,
from a glass bottle? Okay, how agro did you get? Stabler?
He goes, I got arrested later because it turns out

(59:54):
the kid's dad was a lawyer in this white shoe
law firm and who knew people in the DA's office.
But my dad was a cop, called a favor in
from an old academy buddy and made the whole thing
go away. So it's like, so you're both privileged. You
had caught privilege and he had like DA privilege. Like
you both like it seems like I don't know, I
don't know get Stabler's thick. It's like you still got
out of it. It didn't like ruin your life. And Wang's like,

(01:00:17):
he goes, that was more than self defense, like you
were pissed at these kids, and he goes, they spit
in my face like I'm trash. No, And Stabler sees
himself in Adam, he gets how he felt, and Hoank
suggests that Casey point to Adam's anger about what this
whole thing, show them that when he strangled Caroline, it
was about rage and not about addiction.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
So now in trial, Casey's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Questioning Adam, and you know, I forgot who it was
because I can't remember this guy's face. But it's Adam,
he says. The night that she died, Caroline called him
and told him about one hundred and fifty K and
that she was gonna tell Riley. He owed, half like Caroline,
sounds like not to speak ill of the dead, but
like you got in one hundred and fifty K playing
you taunted a football player.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Why are you bringing this poor kid down? And he goes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
They started arguing. She pushed him, He pushed her back
against the wall.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
She fell.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
She tried to get back up, and he just kept
pushing her down. She screamed, and he's like, I had
to shut her up. So I put my hands around
her neck, and he said his head was spinning. He
was squeezing tighter and tighter. There was a bright flash.
I must have strangled her. It was all a haze.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
It was an accident.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
She's kind of playing the whole I saw red, I
blacked out defense that we've seen a ton of different
defendants do on this show. Before Stabler passes Casey a note,
and Casey asks Adam about the rings she was wearing
when he killed her, and he says, yeah, she was
wearing it, the diamond ring, and Casey goes, what's your
relationship to Caroline's roommate, Gloria Calhane and he hesitates, but

(01:01:41):
he admits, Gloria is my girlfriend. Now, Walter asked for
a recess, and Casey asked Stabler, how did you know?
So now we cut to Stabler taking a picture of
himself with Caroline's sidekick phone from Like You Know two
thousand and six, and Casey and Stabler are an interrogation
with Gloria. Casey points out that the glare of the
ring is what caused that ORB photo that ORB in

(01:02:04):
the photo that they found on her phone, the same
way that it does in this picture that Stabler just
took of himself, and the picture that is it's from
the picture Caroline took of Adam right before he killed her,
So the glare means Caroline was wearing the ring when
she died, and so how did the ring go from
Caroline's hand to Gloria's hand like she said it was
on the dresser. Now we're talking to Gloria and she goes,

(01:02:25):
I wouldn't call Adam my boyfriend, but he did give
me the ring, and she's so smirky to Stabler, it's wild,
and Casey wants to know how did a poor kid
like Adam get a girl like you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
And she goes, he earned it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
He took me out, treated me like a queen that
I am, and I live a certain lifestyle. If he
wanted to have me, he had to give me what
I needed. Casey goes by whatever means necessary, and Gloria
gives this like really great, amazing, bitchy like whatever. It's
like straight out of Clueless. But they they're like, Caroline
bankrupted this poor kid. Did you tell him that you'd
stay with him if he was poor? Or did you

(01:02:56):
tell him to go kill Caroline? She goes, I'm sure
I don't know what you're talking about. And it's like
this is a good episode because I don't really know.
I don't really know how much Gloria was involved, Like was.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
She right there when it happened.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Or did she just say be a doll and go
kill this girl so that you can still be afford
to be my boyfriend. Or was she just like, bitch,
if you don't have money, I'm out and that's what
prompted him, Like who knows? Casey gets a light bulb
and goes, he's not addicted to gambling, He's addicted to you.
She goes, is that so hard to imagine? And then
she goes, Adam made his own mistakes and he was enraged.

(01:03:28):
And then we cut to Gloria from her enraged statement,
fully on the stand, nirking on Adam, who is obsessed
with her. She goes, Adam texted me that night when
I was at a cappella rehearsal to meet him outside,
and she said I met him out there and he
was in a state. Adam is like, Gloria, please stop,
and Petrofsky's like, you better shut your fucking mouth, young man.
Casey goes, did Adam say he was going to hurt Caroline?

(01:03:49):
And then Gloria takes a second looks at Adam decides
she doesn't give a fuck and says he said he
might have to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
And Adam goes, I love you, don't do this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Petrofsky's had enough. She's like, one more outburst and I
will kick your ass out. And Gloria said that Adam
said if Caroline couldn't keep her mouth shut, he'd shut
it for her, and it sounded like his mind.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Was made up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Cut to the verdict, obviously guilty, Gloria's testimony was very damning.
As he's leaving, he turns to Gloria and he's like,
how good you do this to me? And she's like
putting on her pea coat. She goes, you did this
to yourself, like she is fucking I was thinking to myself,
Ice Queen. And then just then Casey goes, that was cold.
And then Stabler goes, They're like you had a hand

(01:04:28):
in this, and she's like, my hands are clean. And
then Stabler arrests her for stealing the ring, a classy
felony which would get her fifteen years in prison. Adam
stole it, Casey says, you knowingly possessed it. She goes,
this is insane, and Sabler goes, they don't allow diamond
rings in prison, babe, but you're going to have to
settle for silver bracelets and then off of Casey Novak's face,
it's dick wolf baby. But my thing is this bitch

(01:04:51):
is rich. She doesn't have a record. Her parents are
going to get her Cyndi Lauper's husband or Buchanan.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
She's going to get.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Off on probation at most, Like she's not is she
a day of jail time?

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
She can be like he gave me the ring, Like
what does that have to do with that?

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Like, I mean, I guess her testimony proves that she
knew that it came from a person that was killed.
But still like, like it's she's not going to see jail.
This girl like her parents own a hospital or like
have donated hospitals and wings of colleges.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
That just doesn't happen to those.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
You have to be an actual like murderer to see
I think even a tiny bit of justice and even
then not really anyway, that's that kind of a crazy
episode that I always remember from its original time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
And I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
I know nothing about these real cases that you research,
so I'm very excited to hear about them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Fantastic. Listen to our ads, babies. We'll see you in
a second. Okay, so there's a baby crime in a
big crime, so split into two, and this one's kind

(01:06:02):
of fun. I would say it's the Elizabeth Page LORI
cheating scandal, and like I said, it's fun. This is
a USC scandal before the rowing Aunt Becky Laughlin situation,
and it involves a Walmart heiress. So that's exciting though,
But why do all these rich girls need to go
to USC? Like, I don't understand why it's like the

(01:06:23):
place to be. I know it's really were at universities.
You're the stabler of college.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
So I will say my co yearbook editor went to USC,
but I think she like it is a good school,
but I think she just wanted to get the fuck
out of the East.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Coast, so she just like went out there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Californians, but I
feel like UCLA is better, But I don't know, don't
I don't know. In my mind, UCLA is a more
competitive school to get into the USC, but I could
be totally wrong. I never understood why Aunt Becky did
all that shit because like they're actually I don't know,
it just doesn't seem like it's that hard to get
into USC.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
But anyway, maybe I don't think I would be able
to get in, So no shade.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
If people got in and they're smart, like I would,
I don't think i'd gotten into USC.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
But I just like a Walmart Heiress, I got yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Like I would see you bribing to get into Yale
get into Harvard, like I don't know, I don't I
the bribes were like, it's but maybe USC, honestly, when
you look at the stats is just as hard to
get into.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
Who knows.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Because it's a California school, it could be a lot
of people. We're a more populous state. Maybe more people
are applying. Who fucking knows. Don't come for me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
USC grads Trojans go Trojans.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Now it's cool, and I like that it's near our
neighborhood and stuff like it's not far from us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
But I just I was just shocked. You know, all
my doctors are there. I go to all my doctors
at USC. Love USC.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
So yeah, this Walmart, you know, Heiress Elizabeth page Lory
she returned she had to return her degree.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Yeah, After it came out that she paid a fellow
college student twenty thousand dollars to do her homework so amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Elena Martinez was her freshman year roommate and told twenty
twenty that she had written term papers and done assignments
for the heiress for three and a half years. Martinez
said that she joined the ROTC to earn money for college,
but still had to drop out because she couldn't afford
tuition at USC. But then she was able to learn
a lot by doing this rich girl's homework. So even

(01:08:19):
though she wasn't enrolled in university anymore, she got to
learn by.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Doing like this rich kid's work.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
But in rich girl news, there was a stadium named
after her at the University of Missouri that her billionaire
parents named after her after donating twenty five million dollars
towards the construction of this stadium in Missouri. But also,
like Page sports arena sounds insane, like I don't know, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Don't know anybody Page. It's like named after a girl
from Summerhouse.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Yeah, And the New York Post called Elizabeth Page Lorie
a discount store dunce and a disgraced dumbbell. So that's
all that's quick, Like I told you a baby, little
a little bit, you know, that like.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
The Walmart family too, Like somebody one of them killed
someone in a car accident and they got out of it,
like the Walmart family.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Listen, I have a book that as Walmart Ruined America.
I did read it in my early twenties, and it
did you know, I was annoying, I think when after
I read it, I had a lot of opinions. But yeah,
like Walmart employees are the number one users of like
social services from the government and well there and food
stamps and all this stuff because they refused to pay people,

(01:09:36):
refused to give insurance like.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
A living wage.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
They're like a brick and mortar Amazon, like they make
companies sell at the cheapest ray and then put all
these other businesses out of business, you know, like, yeah,
Walmart's the original Amazon.

Speaker 3 (01:09:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
So, but I think, oh no, there's one good Disney
rich girl. I feel like one of the heiresses of
Disney is like money is evil and I hate all
my siblings.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
So yeah, okay. I also want to say one quick
thing is like, now, now you're on us. I knew
this was gonna turn you knew.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
I was doing this right, Okay, I knew you would
be tortured yes.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I'm tortured.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
I'm on US News and World Report, which I think
is a little bit bullshit because I think a lot
of these colleges pay for their rankings on this but actually,
like USC is number twenty five, and it's right under Michigan,
which I consider to be an amazing school. And also
but then it's also under NYU, which I think of
NYU as a great school, but not necessarily not the

(01:10:36):
smartest kids from my school did not go to n YU.
Like it was kids that wanted to do arts and
stuff like that's that's like what it's for. But like
I'm surprised that it goes Georgetown, NYU, Michigan, USC. That's
not what it was like when I was going to school.
But this shit changes all the time. Like USC's over UVA,
and my mind, UVA is like such a good school,
and on this list, University of Florida is over Chapel

(01:10:57):
Hill in North Carolina, which I think of is also
an amazing school. So and Toughs and Wake Forest and
all these schools. So I don't know, what do I know?

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
I'm judging ALA's friends, I think, who actually listens to
the pod?

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
What's up? Girls. She's going to Wake Forest. That's where
my brother David went. Oh my god, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
David really love Awake. He really loved it's beautiful down there.
I went to the graduation and I saw Biden speak.
Actually Biden spoke at two of my brother's graduations Georgetown
as an outsider, like seems very fancy, it is, you know.
I wanted to go to Georgetown and I got I
applied because my other friend Kara got in and was like,

(01:11:36):
just apply.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
It would be so fun to go together.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
And I was like, I'm never going to get in,
and then I didn't, but I applied and I went
there on the tour and they go, raise your hand
if you're from the Northeast, and like almost all of
us raised our hands and they were like, that's going
to be really bad for you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
That's what they said to us, Like before we went
out on the tour.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
They were just like most of you, like all apply
from the Northeast and like we're just not going to
take like as many kids from that area because we
want diversity, which makes sense, but it's it's hard to
get into Georgetown.

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
And I just said I would have to be diverse anymore. Oh,
but I was right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Though, Berkeley and UCLA are above USC on this list,
they're nineteen and twenty or no, they're tied for twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Okay, so this is pretty sad. The Jennifer Cave case.
So Jennifer was the twenty one year old who moved
from Corpus Christie to Austin, Texas, and she, you know,
struggled with drugs and really battled with her addiction.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
So that is true.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
And then Bill Bishop, the prosecutor in this case, said,
I've never heard anyone say anything but that she was
one of the nicest people they knew. So she was
nice and she loved to party. Colton Patoniac, he was
twenty two at the time and was her friend and
drug dealer. And then Laura Hall was Colton's girlfriend. Colton

(01:12:49):
Petoniac and Lauren Hall were dating and they met at
a party in spring of two thousand and five, and
Hall said that she loved Colton and was very attracted
to him from the start and thought he was sexy
and hot. But then according to CBS News, they she
said it was great. I felt like I was on
top of the world when I was with Colton. Until
you know Colton, you can't see on the surface that

(01:13:11):
there's something wrong underneath. But then other people say it
did appear from the outside that the relationship was very
one sided and that she was obsessed with him and
he did not return the vibe at all, But nobody
can be certain of this. But this is just like
from the findings from the trial prep. So those who
knew Jennifer were clear that her and Colton had never dated,

(01:13:33):
never been on a date, and nobody reported that they
ever tried passing as a couple. Drugs was like their
only connection.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
On the night of August sixteenth, two thousand and five,
she was super excited about her new job at an
Austin law firm. It was it started out as a
one day filing job, but then the firm liked her
so much that they offered her a full time position
starting the next day, so that's super exciting. She spoke
to her mother, roommate and ex boyfrid friend that she
like she was in her pajamas at eight thirty pm

(01:14:03):
and she was going to go to bed because she
really was like excited to start work the next day.
But then around nine thirty pm, she spoke to a friend,
Michael Rodriguez, and told him that she was going to
go out with her friend Colton, who she said was
having a hard time and some problems and she wanted
to be there for him, but she also wanted to
go out and celebrate a little bit, like getting this
new job. So she went out on Sixth Street in Austin,

(01:14:26):
Texas with Colton.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
We've been there together with Kara.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Yes, I've gotten a tattoo on Sixth Street at two
in the morning, and I would not recommend, not recommend.
Her friend Michael said that he got a call from
Jennifer at twelveh eight in the morning of August I
nothing is worse to me than like something am being
the morning of the other day and not the night
of that day. Like I know, people have missed flights

(01:14:51):
because of that ar.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
Miss Jared was supposed to do the gathering of the
Juggalos and we fucked up because this show was at midnight,
and we fucked up the day and the flights and
he missed it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
But honestly, kind of a blessing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
No, the Juggalos, I hear, are you know they supportive family? No,
they like they're the kids who get bullied. They're known
as like a real family. Like there's documentaries. There's a
movie called Family with Taylor Shilling actually in it that
I saw wildly at like a festival years ago. But

(01:15:23):
like Colts, the wrestler, Colt Commandad does juggalo shit and
they like.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
Take care of each other. I'm sure they love cold.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
I just wasn't sure that they were gonna like love
the comic stylings of Jared Logan, and I was nervous
they were gonna like throw Fago cans at him.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
We should do a Fago taste test and tape that
because I've never had Fago me neither or Jerrito's.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
Maybe that's the content. Let's make some content. Oh my god, Okay,
let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
We're getting a YouTube channel, guys, and we're gonna taste
sodas we've never tasted before. We're gonna take over the internet. Okay. So,
and we next to Gelko's soda shops. So, oh my god,
we should see some crazy shit. We could go clearly
Canadian take it back to the nineties. Yeah, okay, so
her friend Mike, like I said, okay, So at twelve

(01:16:12):
oh eight, midnight. Oh eight in the morning. No, it's nighttime, bitch,
it's still midnight.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
But August seventeenth, two thousand and five, and Michael said,
she did not seem afraid or anxious, and she's like,
I'll call you back. And then an hour later he
spoke to her again and she told him that Colton
was angry and drunk and she yelled at him while
he pissed on a car. So the next afternoon, Jennifer's mother,
Sharon Cave, got a call from her new employer around

(01:16:37):
three PM, who let her know that she never showed
up to work that morning. Sharon was frantic and started
making calls immediately and then contacted T Mobile was up
and getting and so she called T Mobile to get
the phone activity of her daughter and then started calling
the people that she last was like speaking to. And
then when they called Colton, he was cagy as hell.

(01:17:00):
And Sharon's fiance Jim Sedgwick, said that at one point
he said, Hey, dude, I'm eating pizza.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
Don't bother me anymore. Quit calling me.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
And that's according to CBS News, and it's like that's
her front, Like what that's yeah, so said up and cold.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
So at one point the mom had Michael on her
office phone and Colton on another phone, and Michael could
call out Colton's lies. So after he denied knowing anything
or seeing her, like not seeing her, and Michael was like,
that's not true.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
I talked to her like she saw Colton last night.
She just knew something was wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
So she drove from Corpus Christie to Austin and tried
getting into Colton's apartment. And then they also saw Jennifer's
car nearby, and you know, the mom had a pit
in the set, like she knew something was off, and
the drive.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):
Is you know, kno quick.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
So they tried knocking but there was no answer. So
then around eight pm they call the police. But the
police had to go get a search warrant before entering
the apartment, which is so annoying to me, but I
guess that's good, okay. So and so Jim was like
fuck that and entered through a window, and he kept
the mom outside because he was scared about what he

(01:18:10):
might find. So he entered and he did find the
body of Jennifer. This is gruesome.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
So Jennifer was found in Pataniac's bathtub. In his apartment
on August eighteenth, two thousand and five. They called nine
one one, and then you know, the police like started
like raced back and then began their search for Cole
Tin and they had to physically so Jim Sedgwick had
to physically restrain Sharon from entering the apartment and inside,

(01:18:36):
so she was shot dead. The bullet went into her
arm and then traveled into the chest through the heart
and it killed her instantly. She was also stabbed numerous times,
and the most horrific was her hands and head had
been cut off and wearing plastic bags on the bathroom floor.

(01:18:56):
So thank god the mom did not enter that apart
and did not see that. But this definitely put me
on a spiral of what a horrible way to find people, Like,
you know, dead is dead, of course, it's like so sad.

Speaker 3 (01:19:12):
Anyways, it's her child, but like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
No dismember kidding me is so gruesome and horrible. It's like,
oh yeah, oh my god. Actually I've been catching up
on Stabler Show Organized Crime, and like at the beginning
of this of this episode, this woman like is in
her house and her husband's not home, and she goes downstairs.

(01:19:34):
She's carrying a baseball bat and she sees something in
her dryer.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
Going boo boom boo boom boo boom in.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Her dryer, and when she opens the dryer it's her
husband's head that was just in the dryer with the laundry.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
That's the fuck. That reminds me of like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
Breaking Bad style ye appetition, h yeah yeah, breaking bad shit. Honestly,
when you said this is gruesome, when you said this
is gruesome, my mind immediately went to like acid bathtub
of breaking bad, like I when I think of like
getting rid of bodies and gross ways, I'm like breaking
bad immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Oh, the decapitation reminded me of what's his name, Trey
Hoe on the Toys Head.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Rewatch that show so bad. But anyways, this is real life.
It's fucked up. I'm so glad that, like the fiance
was adamant about the mom not coming in. Yeah yeah,
and I'm sure he's haunted forever. So later that emmy
said there was also a shot that had been fired
through her severed neck and into her brain.

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
Oh my god, like they were just fucking around.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
Well, so this motherfucker fled to Mexico with Hall, and
they spent five days there until they were picked up
by the US Marshals and returned their asses back to Texas.
So this is the evidence that started to come in.
So Petoniac cell phone records showed that he contacted his
girlfriend Hall right after three thirty am on August seventeenth,
and then there's another phone call at six am. So

(01:20:59):
something happened to between one thirty am and three thirty am.
That afternoon, he went to a hardware store and purchased
a hacksaw, garbage bags, cleaning products, and rubber gloves. While
he was doing that, Lauren drove her green Cadillac to
a gas station, where she filled up the tank and
washed the car. He also found time to stop at

(01:21:20):
Burger King, according to receipts found. So this is a
stone cold killer, Like you're just eating a whopper Like
that's so crazy, yeah, or one of their Long John sandwiches.
So they took Hall's car to Mexico sixteen hours after
the murder.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
So they just gave up on the trying to hacker up.
They were just like, uh, oh, they know they're calling us.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Yeah, I'm gonna get they like, that's what's weird, is
like they didn't do anything they started. You're like, it's
they didn't And you guys think you're gonna like avoid
capture in Mexico like adorable, like you're two.

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
He went to the store and about a hack saw
like ugh.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
But the question as to why this happened has never
been answered because Patanyak testified in court that he doesn't
remember killing her because of the drugs and alcohol, but
it must have been him, but it's so convenient. He
does not remember anything except the parts where he blames
Hall for everything, and that's when the memory is clear.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
So his whole thing is like, fuck, I was fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
I don't remember anything, but I do remember that she
was in charge of the dismemberment in this and that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
Was our idea.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
So very convenient. He remembers nothing but to blame someone
else for other stuff. Laura also says that Colton told
her that he had been drinking and didn't remember what happened,
so in one of those phone calls, he was like,
I have no idea like what happened, which that reminds
me of that episode with Scott whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
He's not his name Hammered. Yeah, so it reminds me
of Hammered where he's Scott fully clue, Scott Fholey, thank
you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
He was at the tail end of a day's long
bender when he met up with Jennifer Cave and he
remembers that night of the sixteenth passing out, but then
he remembers waking up early on the seventeenth and he
found her body in the bathtub.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
He called a Hall in a.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Panic, who came up with a great plan for dismembering
the body, which she of course denies and said it
was his idea and that she made the list of
items they needed, and he said that he paid for
the items, but he did not cut up the body,
and said that it was Hall's idea to go to Mexico.
So they're just turning on each other and I don't
think we'll actually ever know, like, yeah, what happened, but

(01:23:32):
they both suck. So while they're on the run, which
is an understatement. Yeah, So while they're on the run,
Hall's parents, Lauren and Carol, are trying to reach their
daughter and their thought is like, oh my god, this
guy has my daughter and he apparently like killed and
mutilated this other person and he has our daughter.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
So yeah, the parents of.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
Lauren Hall don't realize that their daughter is involved. They
just are like, oh, he's with there with a killler.
We have to find our daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
They did a hold of her finally and she left
that she let them know she was in Mexico with
Colton and they feared that he was going to kill her.
Haul maintained her innocence and said that she was at
the home but did not help and did not call
the cops because she was scared. She maintains the Olivia
Benson of like, I did whatever I needed to do
to stay alive, which included driving him.

Speaker 3 (01:24:21):
She said she was shocked.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
He just let her go and then she went home,
but like she like was still in denial. She said
she came over to the house without knowing anything was wrong.
She said she arrived before dawn on August seventeenth, two
thousand and five. He'd called her saying he needed to talk.
She continued to CBS News that in quotes, he answered

(01:24:43):
the door really kind of paranoid and fearful, and I'm
kind of like sitting up Colton, what's the deal, What's
going on? I'm kind of starting to freak out a
little bit, and he says, come here, come here, and
she says that then he led her into the bathroom
and there was a dead woman curled up in the bathtub.
She then says that she asked if that's a mannequin,

(01:25:04):
and it's like, are you a fucking idiot?

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
What mannequin? Curls up?

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Curls dumb, kant, I don't buy this, like, I just
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
This is sad.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
He's like, no a man, and said that she came
over in the morning and cut up the body. So
her attorney, Joe James Sawyer, of course, was like, she
did not dismember the body, and that her only crime
is that she loves Pataniak too much and that she
was just trying to protect herself from any harm from Colton.

(01:25:35):
She says she regrets not testifying though, so now you
guys can decipher how you feel about this. So Hall's
DNA was found on three items. One of Cave's sandals
found near the bathtub, a blue shop towel found on
the coffee table, and the pistol used.

Speaker 3 (01:25:52):
To shoot Cave.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
Oh Pataniac's DNA without Laura's was found on the buck knife,
a machete which was found in the apartment's dishwasher, which
is also very SVU to me, and the hack saw
that was left resting on top of Cave's body.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
But I think it's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
Damning that her DNA was found on the pistol. Yeah,
I don't know unless she picked up the gun to
go clean it and then fucking forgot because.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
These people don't finish.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
Anything they start, like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
He also like they this was some evidence they used.
He like had wanna be gangster vibes, like he had
scarface posters, gangster movies, and he had tons of movies
that involved dismemberment, one of which the a machete was
used for dismemberment, and on his coffee table. It was
a Sopranos DVD where Tony Soprano dismembers a murder victim

(01:26:47):
in a bathtub, then removes his head and sticks it
in a bowling back bowling ball back?

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
Damn?

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
So was he watching it while they were wasted? Got
the idea? Did he watch it in the day was like,
I'm gonna kill this girl? Did he watch it after
you pop it in figure out how to do it.
But it is it could be circumstantial, but that to
me is damning. That Like, yeah, the dismemberment Sopranos episode
is in the DVD player.

Speaker 3 (01:27:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
His screen names were also see Money and I Love
Money and Hoes. I'm just trying to give you a
full picture of this, yeah, of who this guy is.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
Yeah, I feel like all small time drug dealers are
all like into scarface and this gangster shit too, like
they think that they're like living some kind of life.

Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
So Colton's car was parked in its regular spot with
a gun inside. Prosecutors from Travis County where Bill Bishop
and Stephanie McFarlane, and they had a hard time with
not straightforward, Like it's not a straightforward case. They have
physical evidence, but they're just like all really confused by
the motive.

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
You're like, why did they do this? No one knows.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
No one could have just been like she said something
he didn't fucking like and he just shot her because
he was so fucked up, Like because she said she
was yelling at him when he was pissing on a car.
Maybe she was like, you need to get your life together,
and he was like shut up, mom, and like, you know,
who knows, maybe something triggered him and he just like
shot her.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
But they built intent by piecing together conversations that Hall
was having in the months after the murder. So like
Hall stood by his side from September two thousand and
five when she was arrested until the trial in January
two thousand and seven, and then at the trial she
stopped supporting him. And so they chatted with her cellmate

(01:28:32):
because she was being held during the in between of
the trials and it was like it did count for
her time served and stuff. But Henrietta Logenbach said that
this is the cellmate, this is also very spo So
the cellmate said that she talked about the mutilation plan
and that she came up with it but they had
to abandon it, and that she's also like said, what's

(01:28:55):
the big fuss? Cave is a nobody and a nothing
who cares yes ough, So that's telling again, that's my
word of the episode. And then I guess she also
told the cellmate one day, I'm going to tell my
grandkids about this and how I dismembered the body. Logenbach

(01:29:16):
was in jail for fraud, so her credibility was in question.
There was also information that came from Norah Sullivan, who's
Colton's neighbor. She testified that Hall had told her that
after a Pataniac shot Cave, he just chilled in the
living room drinking beer and watching TV instead of using
the tools he bought, and she was really annoyed by

(01:29:38):
his laziness and was trying to motivate him to finish
the job.

Speaker 3 (01:29:43):
Oh my god, So that's what's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
They did all this fucked up shit to the body
like you mentioned, Kara, but then made no effort to
hide the body or get.

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
Rid of the body. Ooh.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
Their jury deliberated for two days. Pataniac was convicted in
two thousand and seven of the murder and was sentenced
to fifty five years in pri He tried to appeal
in twenty fifteen and it was denied. Stay in jail forever,
you dumb bitch. So Laura was not arrested in the beginning,
but then the police when they just questioned her, she
was so not cooperative that that was what was like

(01:30:14):
fucked up. So the police say that she was like, oh,
I just thought we were going on vacation and going
to Mexico, like, I had no idea about anything.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
Colton's a great guy and he didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
She also admitted to lying about that eventually, but that's again, yeah,
why would you You thought you were going to Mexico.
But then later we're like, oh, no, he did call me,
and I knew when I saw the body, like what's
going on? And then the neighbor was like, you were
bitching about him? But then she's like, oh, I just
thought we were going to Mexico for fun. She also

(01:30:47):
said that he let her go and she had every
chance to tell the cops, a friend, a mom like
her ma, anybody, but instead she just ran errands before
they went to Mexico. Oh so I guess he was like, Okay,
get out of here for a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
I'll see you later.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
And so it's like, if you did feel bad about anything,
you could have told so many people. But baby, I
just don't believe that he but he is crazy. I
don't know, yeah, because I don't want to blame someone.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
It's the thing we learned from the Colleen standcase, like
we can't expect people to abnormal and abnormal circumstances, but shady.
She also posts Mexico, got a fucking tattoo of his
name on her leg because she just loved him so
much and thought he was innocent.

Speaker 3 (01:31:33):
But weren't you there? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
Laura Hall was convicted for her role in the killing
and dismemberment of Jennifer in two thousand and seven. The
charges were for hindering apprehension and tampering with evidence and
helping Pataniac in a cover up and then driving to Mexico.
Hall was released from prison on Thursday, March fifteenth, twenty eighteen,
at ten thirty am, at thirty four years old.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
And I bet she writes to that guy in fucking
prison every day. I mean, and I just wish, like
I'm so all about the why. I'm like, why, what
the fuck happened? Like he didn't say, like you know,
like he I don't know, he didn't say at all
why he fucking did that. I mean, I guess people
just do crazy things when they're fucked up. But let's

(01:32:16):
move to our guests, because we have an awesome guest today,
and thank you for telling us all of the infro
on those two crimes and that very gruesome one and
we'll be right back. Okay, guys, time for our guest interview.
And just want to reiterate what I set up top

(01:32:38):
in the intro, which is that this interview was recorded
prior to the SAG strike, so no one is breaking
any SAG rules by us putting this out. And I
just want to let you know there's been a lot
of tattling on the internet for people, but we are
all good. We are obviously checking with lawyers and doing
the right shit. So our guest today is a phenomenal

(01:32:59):
actress who you might know from shows like Banshee and
blind Spot. She was also a regular on Apple TV's
dystopian sci fi show See But you know her today
as the quintessential rich college bitch, Gloria Colhane. Please enjoy
our convo with the very cool Trieste Kelly Dunn.

Speaker 3 (01:33:18):
Yes, oh my god, we're so happy you could take
the time to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
Of course, you're in a classic episode of SVU. I'm
not trying to be That wasn't even an intentional pun.
The episode is called class, but it is also classic.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
Well, the most class, I mean what jumps out at
me immediately is like early two thousand's frosted eyeshadow, lipstick,
your hairdoo, a pink cardigan.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
I mean it is like the dream outfits of a cool,
mean girl of that time.

Speaker 4 (01:33:49):
Juicy, I remember Juicy Sweatsea. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, So like.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
This is I think this is just looking at your
IMDb one of the first roles you got for TV, right,
So how did it?

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
Were you so pumped to get cast? Was this like
your fiftieth Law and Order audition? Like? How did the
process go of getting this part? I had?

Speaker 4 (01:34:09):
I don't even think I'd been in New York for
an entire year, so it was definitely one of my
first jobs, maybe not my very first, but it was
like in the top three, and I went in for
the audition.

Speaker 3 (01:34:18):
My roommate was also auditioning. Ooh.

Speaker 4 (01:34:21):
So it was a little uncomfortable a little bit when
I got it, obviously, and I felt bad too because
I had I had just done a job, and I
was like, oh, she really needed this more than me.
But I think I was just bitch here, so that's
why I got it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:35):
Yeah, are you guys still friends? Oh yeah? Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:38):
I was a bride in her wedding, so it wasn't
she probably forgot all about it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
So I mean, if you're going to live with another actor,
that's just I think the reality is, right, you gotta
you're gonna go against you.

Speaker 4 (01:34:48):
Oh yeah, I definitely had my share of disappointments for sure,
I mean constantly.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
So yeah, that this business is, I always say, an
endless parade of disappointments pretty much.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
Soon. Yeah, kind of wild.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
It's your first ever real like TV acting job, because
like you're really holding your own with like Maloney and
Iced Tea and like you're handing it back to them
like the banter is.

Speaker 4 (01:35:14):
So oh thanks, Well that's nice back when I had confidence.

Speaker 3 (01:35:19):
Before the industry broke you. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:35:22):
No, I remember Iced Tea was super nice. He was
really friendly. Everybody was really friendly, but he especially, you know,
I think I was.

Speaker 3 (01:35:30):
I'm sure I was nervous.

Speaker 4 (01:35:32):
I just specifically remember him having a conversation where he's like,
you know, we kind of do the same thing every
day and the fun part for us is to get
you got to to see what you guys are going
to do, which and I didn't realize at the time,
like I just didn't know enough about TV. But yeah,
it's like they kind of do do the same thing.
The guest spots are really where all like the meat
of the show is totally Now that I've been on

(01:35:53):
those kind of procedurals, it does get a little bit
when you're the when you're like the cop roll, like
you're just interrogating people all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:36:01):
Right, do you remember any other fun stories?

Speaker 4 (01:36:05):
Oh my god, so Diane, Yes, Diane Neil. Can I
tell you a story about dian Neil?

Speaker 3 (01:36:09):
Yeah, we love Diane. She's been on the podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:36:12):
Okay, so this might have been like, I don't know,
one in the morning when we were shooting a scene
with her and Chris Maloney in like an interrogation room,
and vaguely this is like this is a long time ago,
like twenty years ago. So I'm this is it's like
pieces in my memory. But Chris Maloney there was a

(01:36:33):
line I need to go see the scene. There was
a line in the scene, and he kept like forgetting
it and he would say it really funny, but he
was like keeping it together because he wanted to leave.
He wanted to like he'd been shooting all day and
he's doing this, you know, ten months a year, and
he's exhausted, and but the way he was saying this
line like off camera.

Speaker 3 (01:36:53):
He wasn't even on camera.

Speaker 4 (01:36:54):
It was like off camera like me and dian Neil
would just start laughing to the point where we couldn't
stop laughing.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
And it's one of them like slap.

Speaker 4 (01:37:00):
Happy and so I would see her face seat like
he would do he would make the little mistake and
you'd see him like try to like get the word.

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
Right, and then Dianielle would go and you would just
see her crack.

Speaker 4 (01:37:13):
And then I was just like I could not keep
it together and it was so hard to get through
the scene because and Chris was, I'm sure, just like
so pissed off, which I would be too if I
was in his shoes at the time. I'm just young,
so I don't I don't get like what that team
schedule is like, but it is such a crazy schedule.
And then he's got like kids at home and she
just wants to leave, you know, it's like Friday night

(01:37:35):
or something, and me and Diane just can't stop laughing.
And I remember she looked at me and she goes
like somebody was like, Diane, you need to stop laughing.
You know, got like kind of scolded her and she goes, see,
I just I just think about getting fired. And then
and then I stopped laughing, and then things got kind
of serious. It was like, oh yeah, don't laugh, but
it was you know, when you're trying not to. It

(01:37:55):
wasn't like just a thing, It's like a psychological thing.
You we just couldn't control it at that point. We
were slapped at that.

Speaker 3 (01:38:02):
And we know that Diane is a snort laugher as well.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
That kind of I feel like elevates things when you're
like people are now snorting.

Speaker 3 (01:38:09):
And yeah, it was, Oh my god, it was so funny.

Speaker 4 (01:38:11):
It was just like there's a few things I remember
and that definitely stands out as being just like one
of the highlights.

Speaker 2 (01:38:19):
Well that scene too, Maloney is so in your face.
I mean he gets close to purps, but like he
is in your face.

Speaker 4 (01:38:27):
Yeah, yeah, I remember, And so that's why it's like
if he missed a line and said it funny, it
was just really hard to keep it together.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
Because he's like looks like he's about to kiss you basically.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
And it's one of my favorite tropes too because they
reveal the ring and like the I love there's a
few episodes where it's like one little mistake and jewelry
and you're done, And I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:49):
Yeah, a bing go board moment, Yeah, getting too greedy,
getting too greedy and taking a ring or something that
you stole from someone you killed. Yeah, right, and then
you got to take the stand. Another bingo moment when
you do Law and Order, you got to be on
the stand.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
The courtroom was that that was so fun, Like I
don't know, I was just having fun. It just seemed
like a great guest spot.

Speaker 4 (01:39:16):
I haven't done one since because sometimes some people do too,
don't they.

Speaker 1 (01:39:20):
Oh yeah, sometimes they bring people like at the beginning,
they would bring people back closer together, and now I
think they space them apart more.

Speaker 3 (01:39:25):
Yeah, but yeah, I know, I know, what would you
like to come back as? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
I mean the bad guys are the most fun because
I feel like when you audition for the victim guest
spot roles, you have to cry a lot and as
much just that's just harder to like cry and like
do a lot of exposition.

Speaker 3 (01:39:42):
That's just like hard to do. So the bad guy
roles are more fun.

Speaker 1 (01:39:46):
I think you got to be fun like you were,
just like I was just like, I can't who is
this girl? Because I mean, obviously they're painting you is
so rich, but I'm like, who is this girl that
is so fearless of the cops?

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
Like you have not known the world of the cops.
You're like, wow, a comedian cool? Like I oh, so
much attitude.

Speaker 2 (01:40:07):
I also wrote down one line that you had where
nove Ecco's he was addicted to you?

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
And you went, is that so hard to imagine? Are
you serious? That was a line?

Speaker 4 (01:40:17):
Yeah, Oh my god, I can't even that's so funny?

Speaker 3 (01:40:21):
Is that so hard to imagine? Do you remember watching
it when it came out? Like do you watch stuff?

Speaker 4 (01:40:26):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:40:26):
I'm sure I watched it. I'm sure I watched it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:28):
But the funny thing is I was living at that time.
I was still living in my first New York apartment
and I think we were like five people in a
two bedroom. It was like we didn't have cable, We
couldn't afford anything. So if I did watch it, and
that I think that was before streaming. Is that like
early two thousands, right, Yeah, so that would have been
well before streaming. So I'm like, when did I watch it?

Speaker 3 (01:40:50):
Actually? Because we didn't. I'm sure probably when I.

Speaker 4 (01:40:53):
Like went to my mom's house I watched it. I
don't even remember when, but I'm sure I know I did.
I know I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:40:58):
Remember watching it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:41:00):
I also had really bad acne back then. I remember
being so stressed about my like twenty year old I
had really bad acne problems and the makeup artist was
so sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:41:09):
She was like trying to.

Speaker 4 (01:41:10):
Help me, and I just remember being like, oh, everybody's
like looking at my acne.

Speaker 3 (01:41:16):
Oh God, well you definitely couldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
It definitely didn't read on camera that makeup people did great.

Speaker 4 (01:41:21):
Oh they did. They really did, and they were very sweet.
And they even put me in Marishka's dressing room. I
hope that was when she wasn't at work. I think
they would put people in her dress and she was
like okay with it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
But yeah, I remember being in her dressing room just
being like, oh am I supposed to be in here? Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
Do you ever steal things from sets? Her memories?

Speaker 3 (01:41:42):
Do I steal things? Gosh? Have I ever stole anything set?

Speaker 4 (01:41:48):
I'm sure there's been something. Socks, plenty of socks. They
always have really nice socks on set, like they give
you like, even if you come to set with socks
on the costume, people always leave socks you.

Speaker 3 (01:42:01):
Usually they even leave underwear.

Speaker 4 (01:42:02):
I mean there's just like they want you to have
everything in case, like you didn't wear your underwear that
day or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:42:08):
So I would always and I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:42:09):
Know about this set specifically, but like usually I just
leave the socks on because I'm like, oh, that's not
really stealing. I just like left the socks on. So
I've definitely left the socks on. I don't know about
like stealing like prop objects or anything. I don't know
if I've done that. Sometimes people give you stuff, you know,
like if you have a prop guy, you know, he'll
give you something.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
I would have taken that pink cart again, and oh
I should have, and then I would have been like,
I don't know, I left it in the trailer.

Speaker 3 (01:42:35):
I don't know I should have done that. I could
have just worn it out. They would have never known.
It was so cute. How was your How do you
remember the arrest?

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
Also at the very end, when they like are cuffing
you and you're like this is crazy, and they're like,
you're going to jail for stealing the ring.

Speaker 3 (01:42:51):
I loved it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:52):
Chris Moloni is like kind of rough a little bit,
and I liked it because it like gave me something
to do.

Speaker 3 (01:42:57):
And also people love that he arrested me.

Speaker 4 (01:43:01):
Like people always like, oh my gosh, Chris Maloney arrested
you in Law and Order. Like that's my claim to fame,
is that Chris Maloney arrested me. Because he has such
a crazy fan like his fan.

Speaker 3 (01:43:09):
Base is psycho. A lot of gay men love him.

Speaker 1 (01:43:12):
I think from his days in Oz right, Yeah, and
like and now his butt is having like a like
a resurrection and like he says, and now he's like
a zaddie and he's doing naked Peloton commercials. Yes, I
think I don't know whether back then he was into it,
but now I think he's playing it up. Like I
think he loves that kind of stuff now.

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
Yeah, because people seem very impressed by the fact that
he arrested me.

Speaker 3 (01:43:35):
Yeah, that would be my dating profile picture for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:43:38):
Well, and we always talk like he's so toxic now
when you watch back, and he is really rough and
breaks the rules often, but like there is a fantasy
of him like throwing you against a file cabinet, you know,
so you kind of a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:43:51):
That would have been a different ending, maybe a better ending.

Speaker 2 (01:43:57):
Well you, I you know, we obviously stalked you, so
I was on Instagram your costumes on this show.

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
See looks good? Yes, well tell us about this show too.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
You're also working with hatty Jason Momoa. I would love
some insight on that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:12):
That was fun.

Speaker 4 (01:44:13):
No, Natalie Bronsman did the costumes and gosh, yeah she was.
Oh my god, that was just so incredible. She gave
me something too. She gave me like, I had this
cool snake thing, Like it was like a bracelet that
went all the way over your hand and like it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Was like a hand piece.

Speaker 4 (01:44:29):
I don't even know what you call it. It was
like a hand piece with like a snake wrapped around.
So she did give me that. That was amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:44:37):
And I'm sure you have a lot of occasions to
wear that too. Well, I haven't actually worn it out
once Snake camped.

Speaker 4 (01:44:43):
I know I should wear it actually because it would
be cool. I should have borne it to the premiere,
but it just didn't go with my dress.

Speaker 3 (01:44:49):
But yeah, that was fun.

Speaker 4 (01:44:51):
That was fun, And Jason definitely walked around set with
his shirt off sometimes because it was very hot in Toronto,
so that was also fun.

Speaker 3 (01:44:59):
Just watching what is.

Speaker 1 (01:45:00):
What's the will you tell us about the show? Like,
what's the premise of se Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:45:03):
The premise of s is basically, it's like hundreds of
years into the future, there's been a virus that has
basic everybody has like lost their vision. They've got these
like cataracts and so pretty much the entire population has
said to adapt to not being able to see, except
for there's like three characters that can see, and so
all the powerful people are trying to exploit them to
like make weapons. Essentially, it's just it's it's like a

(01:45:26):
very like sci fi, kind of earthy, lot of good fighting,
a lot of violence, a lot of violence if you're
into that. The scenes I kind of have to look away,
like they're almost too violent. But Jason Wa has a
lot of amazing fight scenes and see no.

Speaker 3 (01:45:44):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:45:44):
So they treat my they treat everybody's eyes like in
post and so your eyes look really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:45:49):
And and they gave us canes.

Speaker 4 (01:45:51):
We had like these kind of canes walking sticks, and
the other thing about it was so interesting is that
you couldn't look at actors because in this world where
like nobody because like right now, people who you.

Speaker 3 (01:46:02):
Know are visually impaired.

Speaker 4 (01:46:03):
If they're if they're looking at you, it's because they're
adapting to kind of like the seeing world, like as
most of us can see. And so they're a minority,
so they've like kind of had to adapt to, oh,
try to make like try to.

Speaker 3 (01:46:14):
Look as closely to the person's eyes.

Speaker 4 (01:46:16):
But in a world where every nobody can see like that,
there's no need to like look at them.

Speaker 3 (01:46:21):
They're just going off there hearing.

Speaker 4 (01:46:22):
So a lot of times you'd be doing a scene
in profile, so I'm like listening to somebody here and
looking that way, so you're almost never making eye contact.
You're just really never making eye contact. You're looking around
the person the whole time. And so that was crazy
to do. That was just so new to me. I've
never done anything like that, like not being able to
look at an actor. Like somebody would come and say, oh,

(01:46:42):
it looks like you're looking at him, and I was like, well,
I think I'm just looking past his ear. Well, look
from the camera perspective, it looks like you're looking at him,
so look further away.

Speaker 3 (01:46:50):
You know. That was really weird because we're so used.

Speaker 4 (01:46:53):
To like like we're so used to listening really with
our eyes, you know, body language. It's like somebody can
say one thing, but what they're doing visually is like
you're getting something else from it. So I found that
to be like, really that was really challenging, but also
really fun and totally different and sensual.

Speaker 3 (01:47:11):
And the costumes. We just had so much stuff to
play with. So what's life in Utah? Like, there's a
lot of skiing. I ski a lot. Are you in
Salt Lake?

Speaker 4 (01:47:21):
No, I'm actually right now currently in Probo, Utah? And
then I'm met in you know, Sundance, Utah. It's kind
of it's not the word the fest festivals in Park City,
but Sundance is this little tiny like ski resource, small
ski resort like five chairs. I want to say Robert Redford.
Robert Redford owns it. They do the Sundance Institute and
the labs there, but it's not quite where like the

(01:47:42):
Giant Festival is the giant big festivals in Park City,
like thirty minutes forty minutes up the canyon. So it's
a really beautiful mountain. You guys should definitely come out
sometime and visit and I'll show you around.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
Yeah, okay, you're a girl.

Speaker 3 (01:47:56):
Nature I really am.

Speaker 4 (01:47:57):
It was like hard to be in New York for
so long, but I got so used to it and
I loved it. But when the option was like when
it became COVID times, it was just like not a
question for me. I was like, there's no way, I'm
just sitting in an apartment for a year and like
grinding now self tapes, Like I'm just not going to
do that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:14):
Yeah, you just said, like you filmed in Toronto. I'm
sure there's just always somewhere else.

Speaker 4 (01:48:19):
That's the thing is that when you get the job,
you're actually you know, usually that said, I shot tons
of stuff in New York, so I should spend more
time there just because that's kind of where my like,
you know, actor family is, and.

Speaker 3 (01:48:33):
So I should.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
I should get back my partner Houston, he is from Alabama,
but he's really like a New York person.

Speaker 3 (01:48:39):
He just really wants to live in New York.

Speaker 4 (01:48:40):
But we were kind of all over the place, and
I was like, I have a home in Utah, Like,
let's just go live there for a while and figure
it out and then it's just easy to stay. And
so we've been here for about a year now. But
he he was noticing. There's soda shops all over Provo
at Oorum, Utah, like soda shops.

Speaker 1 (01:48:56):
So there's like a bar, no soda like so I know,
but like the way they treat it the way like
another city would treat me.

Speaker 3 (01:49:03):
Yes, Like it's like come in here and get your
your no bars. There's like no bars.

Speaker 4 (01:49:07):
There's like two bars in the entire city, like there's
and they're like kind of weird, and it's really hard
to get a liquor license apparently in Provo because like
I think BYU kind of owns them, or they don't
want the more the kids, that's the students to start drinking,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:49:22):
So there's these soda shops.

Speaker 4 (01:49:23):
One's called Sip and Fizz, one is called So Delicious,
one is called Pop and Dot. There's like fifteen different
like like soda places that they're like franchises that I
see all over Utah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:35):
And they have lines.

Speaker 4 (01:49:36):
There's like car lines and they're not cheap, like I've
gone to one before and got like the red They
mix soda so they put like red Bull and then
other flavored soda, so it's like sugar on top of sugar.
Some of them they give you a free cookie. Wow,
Like that's that's the that's the vice here is just
like sugar and soda. Like they don't drink, they don't smoke,

(01:49:57):
they eat sugar.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
Wow. That's I know. It is really wild.

Speaker 1 (01:50:01):
Well, so you're okay, So you're in provo, you're partitioning.
Is there anything that you want our listeners to check out,
any like recent projects or anything coming up that you
want us to keep an eye out.

Speaker 3 (01:50:13):
Just pray for me, Just keep me in your prayers.

Speaker 4 (01:50:17):
No, I've had a sad like I don't want is
called a sad year, but just a lot of close calls,
a lot of those kind of jobs were you're just
like kind of heartbroken. You just get it's like the
feeling of like somebody just broke up with you and
broke your heart. Like that's like they were so close
that you're like the carrot is like really close and
gets closer and then all of a sudden just know

(01:50:38):
it's somebody else.

Speaker 3 (01:50:38):
They want with somebody else.

Speaker 4 (01:50:39):
And that's been happening so many so much this year,
and now we're in this writer strike.

Speaker 3 (01:50:43):
So it was just like, dang, this is I'm like,
is it just? Is it over for me? No?

Speaker 1 (01:50:49):
I think a lot of people are feeling that way
that it's like just bouncing back from the pandemic.

Speaker 3 (01:50:55):
Still totally everything. Yeah, it's really different.

Speaker 4 (01:50:58):
It's really different doing the self tapes because I think
they just they cast a much wider net.

Speaker 3 (01:51:02):
Wait, have you have you ever met another Tris?

Speaker 4 (01:51:05):
Okay, my mom's name is Trieste, my grandma's name is Tries,
and my great aunt's name is Tris, and then there's
some others in the family too.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
So okay, family name all right? Cool? So sure, yeah,
you've met a for you. This was very fun. I
know you so much. Nice to meet you guys too.

Speaker 1 (01:51:22):
Thank you so much for taking the time to tell
us about your SVU experience or your life.

Speaker 4 (01:51:28):
Thanks for reminding me of that episode because it was
really fun and it's good to be reminded.

Speaker 3 (01:51:35):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
Triste so cool living the life in Utah.

Speaker 2 (01:51:40):
Cool girl, really cool girl, best character, dream character, rich
bitch who thinks they got away with it all but
arrest sit at the end.

Speaker 3 (01:51:51):
Silver bracelets.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
Yeah, so why that's why we go to the movies.

Speaker 3 (01:51:56):
JK. We come to this place for magic. Yeah, for
people getting.

Speaker 1 (01:52:02):
Arrested and the Cliffhairer, the Biffer rich bitches falsting their
poy boyfriends to kill their poker partners. I feel bad
for the guy, but I hate when Maloney, like, I
don't know, I relate to him. I was also poor.
It's like, shut up, yeah, it's like he killed a woman. Yeah,
he strangled a woman in a rage over money. And

(01:52:24):
you're like, there's just something about this kid. I think
he's good on the inside. It's like what I just hate.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
I get it when it's like the parent stuff and
you just feel for these children.

Speaker 3 (01:52:34):
But this is too far.

Speaker 2 (01:52:36):
You know, this is way too far to like want
to give a pass to someone who who did murder
a woman. I don't care if it was because of
gambling debts, Like then get your own legs broken.

Speaker 3 (01:52:47):
And that's not my part.

Speaker 2 (01:52:48):
Like, I just I hate when Maloney has a soft
spot for just like looking like someone that looks like him.

Speaker 3 (01:52:55):
I don't know, it bothers me.

Speaker 1 (01:52:56):
We've also just seen so many episodes of the show
where a man is like either in the on the
at the defense table or like being exited from the
courtroom where he's like, why are you doing this? And
it's just a woman fucking him over. So I kind
of love that though. I do love when like he's like,
but babe, I did it all for you and.

Speaker 3 (01:53:15):
She's like audios. It was just a great, great scene.

Speaker 2 (01:53:19):
Yeah, the damaged, the damaged of it all. He was
gonna go to jail for life for Mari Grainer.

Speaker 1 (01:53:26):
Yeah, or even the guy who in Mother who like
thought that he was like in love with his therapist.

Speaker 3 (01:53:31):
Was like, why are you doing this? I love you?

Speaker 1 (01:53:33):
Like there's so much like protests of love in the courtroom.

Speaker 3 (01:53:37):
John, what is it?

Speaker 2 (01:53:38):
John Abraham? John Abrams? It's always tough with the last names.
Casey's type in, Casey's type in He's finding it.

Speaker 3 (01:53:46):
But I think it's Abra.

Speaker 2 (01:53:48):
What did you think of John Abram's resident John Abrams,
it's John Abrams. No, there's an h John Abraham, John
Abraham's yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:53:59):
Yeah, oh good. A great former guy.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
And you know he's in one of my favorite movies, Prime,
which I'm sure Kara hasn't seen.

Speaker 3 (01:54:07):
I have seen pieces of it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
I remember I remember it because in that movie, doesn't
Meryl streep tell him not to do Q tips in
your ears or something like that. I always remember that
part because I, well, you tipping my ears is one
of my greatest joys in life, and I don't care
if you're not supposed to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:54:21):
I love it so much.

Speaker 2 (01:54:22):
Well, yeah, because Uma Thurman's like in therapy with Meryl's streep,
and Merrill's caught on that UMA's dating her son, but
she's still testing the waters to know like when ethically
she should hop out right because she also doesn't want
to ditch her client if it's a fling. But then
UMA's like, what kind of mother would do that to
her son? And the Meryl's streep gets all like defensive

(01:54:43):
about ear canals. No, I love a Q tip. I
love a cue tip for a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:54:48):
It feels so clean after I Q tip those ears
out after a shower.

Speaker 3 (01:54:52):
Anyway, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
It's kind of Yes, this is why you come to
this podcast to hear about the joys of Q tipping.

Speaker 3 (01:54:58):
Yes. Post mortom of this episode, what did we learn?

Speaker 1 (01:55:03):
Don't ever think that a rich bitch that you need
to pay for with money is going to stay with you,
because the minute you lose even a few dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:55:10):
She's out of there, you know, like, don't.

Speaker 2 (01:55:14):
Yeah, you're young, you're young. This isn't real love, Like,
get out of there. Don't work with ultimatums or having
to like ruin your life to be with someone, not
the thing, not the gig, bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:55:26):
Don't And like I.

Speaker 1 (01:55:27):
Respect the hustle of the like selling of the term
papers and the playing poker and stuff, but you can't
take it, like just don't. Don't get wrapped up in
the illegal stuff because then you're just gonna get busted.
You don't have the high powered lawyer to help get
you out of this shit the way that Gloria cole
Hayne does. You know, it's like what you were just
talking about. Oh, Lisa just sent me this TikTok. That

(01:55:48):
was this girl woman. That's like, I'm a lawyer, and
here are the things I'm gonna tell my kids. Don't
call me from jail and confess to me that you
did something bad on the phone. They're recording that conversation.
If you have trauma, don't hide trauma, get it out.
Tell people, seek professional help immediately. That will not only
helps with your mental well being, but it helps with
your case for criminal or civil lawsuits down the road.

(01:56:12):
But then the third thing she was saying was don't
make the cover up worse than the crime, Like don't
you know, like that's kind of what happened to this
guy in this episode. It's like when something goes wrong
right away the one hundred and fifty k or whatever, like,
just go get help and figure that problem out. Don't
keep committing crimes to cover up your thing, because it
takes you that she goes that's how people spiral.

Speaker 2 (01:56:32):
No, yeah, I definitely sent that to you immediately in
the middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (01:56:35):
I knew that your future children's I need well know.
First of all, I have to I'm going to tattoo
that TikTok on Oscar's body because he is absolutely gonna
call me from jail one day, like there's no question,
and I need to be like, you keep it zipped up.

Speaker 3 (01:56:51):
You just tell me where you are and I'm coming
to get you. Thank God.

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
When I got arrested, I was so wasted that I
was denying everything. So I was on the phone being
like I didn't do anything these you call your parents.

Speaker 3 (01:57:02):
Now, my sister, my sister, Yeah, come on.

Speaker 1 (01:57:04):
I was also gonna say, I bet you could just
speak Russian. I doubt they've got like an interpreter on hand.
You could just be like in Russian, like I fucked up,
Come get me.

Speaker 3 (01:57:12):
Yeah, you definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
I would suggest don't call your parents who don't speak
English from jail.

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
That will not work. You gotta call the siblings. You
gotta call a sibling.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
But also gamble for fun. No, that's blaming the victim.

Speaker 1 (01:57:26):
Sorry, but yeah, I guess I would say, if you
are fleecing a humongous professional football player for his diamond
ring that costs one hundred thousand dollars, maybe don't like
laugh in his face and gloat because he's going to
get quite angry at you, although he didn't end up
doing anything. But still, don't lie to your wives. They
know the truth. Quit lying to your wives. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:57:49):
I started watching the Ashley Madison thing, but I didn't
finish it.

Speaker 3 (01:57:53):
Oh yeah, there's a doc a new doc out.

Speaker 1 (01:57:56):
Yeah. I was like, I know, I know, I heard
a sham Dock is really sweet. I would love to
watch the Wham Duck. It's like all about how much
the other guy from WAM just like loved George Michael
and was like, yeah, you could tell he was a star.
And after WAM was over, he was just like I'm out,
Like I'm just gonna like George can just take the fame,
like I'm good. I had a great ride, you know,

(01:58:18):
like did he did he was he able to live
on residuals from the music or did he have to
get her like a job?

Speaker 3 (01:58:24):
Probably I think he did, that's what. That's what my friend.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
My friend was actually Georgia telling me all about it,
but like she was saying too that it was like
they used to. He used to just like he knew
George was gay and he would just like help him
cover and be like oh yeah, we're just like Sleigh
and Pussy left and right. But like he was covering
for help him covering for him. My god, this guy
from WAM. What a little ally an Ali hero. I

(01:58:48):
guess I'll throw this out there. I don't know. I
loved the movie joy Ride. Oh yeah, the port Asian Women.
So you know, the movie is a comedy.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
So we're laughing and after you know, and our mutual
friend has a really nice big laugh.

Speaker 3 (01:59:04):
Okay, and it's nada.

Speaker 1 (01:59:06):
If you're a stand up you love to hear it
because it's like coming from her gut and she like
loves what you're saying, and she's it's not annoying to
me at all, And I have friends with annoying laughs. No,
because it's realizing she's not putting on anything.

Speaker 3 (01:59:20):
It's truly her enjoying life.

Speaker 2 (01:59:23):
And after the movie ends, you know, the light's go up,
we stand up and a woman turns to her and goes,
you really laughed out loud at the movie, And it's
like the comedy, like, are you shading the movie that
it's bad or that my friend is laughing? Like, of
course we're laughing at the movie. It's a funny movie.
It just sickens me. It sickens me.

Speaker 3 (01:59:41):
I mean we're at dinner time.

Speaker 1 (01:59:43):
People hate her laugh and it is I mean, it
helps me get my rage out because I get to
defend a friend.

Speaker 3 (01:59:49):
So for me sometimes I'm like, it's just so crazy.
What do you look. She's been at my stand up,
she's been at our live shows.

Speaker 1 (01:59:55):
I love hearing her laugh, Like I don't know, maybe
that's just because she's my friend, but it's all Also
it's like that means you're not having fun like, why
are you sitting in silence getting mad?

Speaker 3 (02:00:05):
Like you should be laughing.

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
We should all be laughing, and if you're not, don't
drag people down to the depths of misery with you
like that. So whatever, whatever, Well, we're moving on, give
them the chatty.

Speaker 3 (02:00:19):
Let's go. No, well, we're going to what would Sister
Peg do?

Speaker 1 (02:00:22):
Our WWSPD segment where we tell you point you guys
to a resource, a blog, a book, a podcast episode.

Speaker 3 (02:00:29):
We even did a made for television movie recently.

Speaker 1 (02:00:31):
You know, we're all over the place, but something to
give you more information about what we talked about in
today's episode and listen. SVU has made a full character
choice with Rawlins having a gambling problem. Clearly the kids
in this episode have gambling problems, so we thought we
would point out the National Problem Gambling Helpline, which is
one eight hundred gambler. As shown in the episode, gambling

(02:00:52):
can be really destructive addiction.

Speaker 3 (02:00:53):
It correct people's lives.

Speaker 1 (02:00:55):
This network is a single national access point to local
resources for those seeking help with a gambling problem. Even
if you know someone who's just like getting in a
little bit too deep with online poker or it feels
like that's where they're deriving all of their.

Speaker 3 (02:01:08):
Like dopamine from like it.

Speaker 1 (02:01:10):
It could end up being problematic, so maybe just seek
out some help. It's available twenty four to seven and
as one hundred percent confidential. It includes a text and
a chat feature if you don't want to talk on
the phone. So if you know anyone who's suffering with
a gambling addiction, give them a call at one eight
hundred Gambler And that will obviously, as always be posted
on our Instagram stories and in our WWSPD Instagram highlight

(02:01:30):
that where we save all of our past organizations and resources.

Speaker 2 (02:01:35):
Thank you so much for that, And next week we
will be doing the episode spouse so privilege. You heard
that correct, Season sixteen, episode eight, join us star studded.
We should say something else, Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 (02:01:50):
Thank you guys so much for listening. We love you.

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
We really mail are here at the end, but email
our CMUs.

Speaker 3 (02:01:57):
Let's talk to us forever.

Speaker 1 (02:01:58):
We love you, Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (02:02:12):
That's messed up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:02:14):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
at that's messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (02:02:22):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (02:02:31):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information. Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien,
and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song,
and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer,

(02:02:52):
and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 3 (02:02:55):
Dud be done