Nationwide Manhunt w/ Sarah Storm

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories,
done done, Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
My name is Lisa and I'm Kara, And every week
we break down an episode of Law and Order SVU
the true crime it was based on, and talk to
a guest from the episode. But first we catch up.
And today is New Year's Eve. It's the last day
of twenty twenty four. Wow, yeah, let me it all up.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
You don't know when it's all gonna not happen anymore, so.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
We are, yeah, enjoy it could be our final New
Year's Eve. I don't know what's happening fucking next year.
I'm nervous. I feel like we're in this like weird.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Quai terriffs, like the terriffs, the terror problems. But I'm like, yeah,
I guess I'll just keep going out to eat till
I can't anymore. Yeah, when tomatoes are gonna be so
so much? Yeah. Well, I also I obviously need to
shout out you know, we're in the time Machine. But
thanks everyone for coming to Cincinnati. It was fun. Someone

(01:31):
gave me something. I'm just gonna show it to you
and then your reaction, Okay, gonna be like part of
I think, the excitement forever. Okay for me and everyone. Okay,
are you ready? What is it?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh my god? This is amazing. Okay, well I need
you to take a picture of it and send it
to me.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
To put up.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Like basically, it's the Era's Tour, the classic eras tor
shirt of Tailor, but it's John Munch and it's the
eras of John Munch and that is so fucking good.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, she's always pull out all the stuffs. You have
really great gifts. It's amazing. Yeah, you're gonna love this one.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
It's a bracelet and it says hogpat Men's top yarn.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Oh this is the riddle from from the Homeless Man.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah. Yes, oh my god. Yes. And I don't expect
any you know, it's always like just come to the show.
It was like in an abandoned church. It was like
super fun. I really loved being there and I ate
the best chicken schnitzer I've ever had in my fucking life.
At a place called Tuba's like if you were ever,

(02:43):
I'm the Kentucky Cincinnati border. Holy fucking chip. Oh my god.
But also someone made me ornaments that are each one
is a Taylor Swift album. So wow. And she like
threw it because it was nervous, like ornaments are delicate,
but it was it was great. Threw it up to
you like on the stage. No, they're like plastic, like

(03:05):
she made them unbreakable, Like she's just like you could
toss them around type of vibes. So it's really exciting.
Love it.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Love that, yes, because I every year break a ornament
that is very dear to me, and this year was
no exception. Just smashed one by accident. Yeah, when we
were decorating the tree. It just fell, just fell off
the tree and it hit a stool and it smashed
into a million pieces.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
You know, what are we gonna do? What are we
gonna do? Wait?

Speaker 1 (03:28):
I feel like I know we're in the time machine
and you guys are gonna think this is so out
of date, But you also are gonna be like, why
have it you talked about this and we have to
talk about Luigi. I mean, I don't buy it, like
you don't buy what that it's him. Yeah, I think
it's bigger.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
I like he was doesn't look health and good at everything,
and then had all the evidence on him in public,
just in Pennsylvania, Like it makes no sense. Wait, girl, Also, I.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Don't think the guy they brought in, while he is
very handsome, looks like the guy in the photos with
the half the face covered. I don't really see the resemblance.
And that's what I said yesterday. I go, this guy
fucking got out of Manhattan. He got out of like
such a busy city where everybody was looking for him.
He ditched the backpack full of the monopoly money, he

(04:16):
had the bullets, he had shit written on the bullets,
like he was meticulous. And then he's just gonna stroll
into a McDonald when there's a nationwide man hunt for him,
like kind of nuts.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Right, Well, well, see, I don't think it's him. I don't.
I hope it's not him. I want out more. I
think I hope it's a decoy. But I wonder it
is funny to like that you could see people's social
media and like his Spotify and then he likes Carly
Ray Jepsy. Yeah he I mean me and him have
a lot in common. We love a happy meal, so

(04:51):
it's like it's wild. I don't know. I like the jokes,
but I guess it's serious. I don't know what's the thing.
I don't know what I know. I'm all over the place.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I'm like, oh my god, like he just shot this
man in broad daylight. But then also like insurance companies
are evil, Like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
But I mean someone told me that their theory is
that a wife hired a hitman, his wife wants to
kill him and it's all fick. I was like, I'll
get it done in New York.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
It'll be wait and the wife is hooking up with Luigi.
I just I was sad that they caught him because like,
as we're recording this, they just caught him, And I
was like, I really could have had this go on
for a couple more weeks, Like I don't think anybody
thought they were in danger. He's only going after CEOs,
Like I you know, I would have loved to have

(05:41):
seen a few more sightings, a few more high.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
L Tuna Pennsylvania. Like for some reason, I just don't
buy that he would be so out in the open
and not like yeah, eleven for a McDonald's. Like, there's
no fucking way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
I was like, why don't you just put one of
those like gator things over your face, like and like
it's cold in Pennsylvania and go through the drive through?
Like no one would even think about that, you know,
Like I don't know if someone was like, pluck.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Your eyebrows, babe, I mean, I don't know. We'll see
what happens. But also I guess in New Jersey there's
like drones. There's like some sort of flying saucer things
flying in the trees, and there's sightings and the government
has confirmed it's something it might be hostile, like they're

(06:32):
trying to claim it's aliens. I'm like, no, they're trying
to see how much they could spy on us. I think,
I mean the government's sending things. Oh my god, have
you not seen any of this. There's like, oh, okay, Jersey,
unidentified drones light up New Jersey skies, baffling residents, bizarre
phenomenon flying objects, and the government is like, for sure,

(06:57):
but I think it's them trying to test out waste
to like us spy on us. Like I think there's
gonna be what is it called.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Oh well, they said that the fucking weather balloon that
they found was China. You think it's like that kind
of thing, or you think it's like it's coming from
inside the house. It's like our government's buying.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I mean, it might be aliens or it's I think
it's our government figuring out like how to do curfews eventually,
or spy on people or emit a loud noise. Yeah,
there was a loud noise. I mean, and Jersey's like
asking for help.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
New Jersey's like, can somebody help us figure this out? Wow? Wow,
this is an hour ago. New Jersey senator calls for
a limited state of emergency.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Jesus.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I mean, when this comes out, you guys will all
know that the aliens have landed or whatever. But like
I'm experiencing us in the time machine right now.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I don't want it. I mean, they're like, don't don't
fuck with it. The aliens can be hostile, but it's like,
I don't know, why would they just be chilling in
Jersey in the trees like this so low to the ground,
And how did no one shoot them down in Jersey?
No One's like I got it, Like I just yeah,
I don't get I don't get it. Yeah, did you

(08:16):
see them at Melissa Gorga has released a line of
sprinkle cookies. I did see that, lame get an identity
outside of your sister in law. I know I'm going
to be Tea Teresa like you want to be away
from her? You're away from her. It's her quote, She's
the one that got mad. Why are you doing this?
And they don't look good. Don't they look good? They
don't look good. I don't they look dry like I

(08:37):
don't want one. Oh my god, this reminds me I
have to order my Italian cookies for Christmas.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Do you always go to
the same place of course?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah? Okay, yeah, yeah, you got a spot. Yeah yeah,
I'll shot at Circo's pastry shop. And I love them
so amazing.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
I'm trying to think of like, yeah, Luigi has been
really taking up a lot of my thoughts.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, I'm thinking fan like erotic fan fiction, like I
would I bet there are people masturbating for sure, to
the idea of like seeing him being like I'll hold
you at the house and like, you know, giving it
all and then you fall in love. I think there's
a movie called Labor Day that's totally this. Yeah, I
think I think that's the movie. Is it Casey it's

(09:29):
Josh bah okay, and Kate Winslet knows he's a criminal
and she's housing him and it's hot. Okay, so not
on original, yeah, but yeah, this is like hot and horny.
This is awesome. Like everyone likes the way he cocks
that gun. Wow, Okay, you don't feel like, well, I
wonder if he's gay or not, Like I just yeah,
everyone loves his body like it is cool, like you

(09:52):
get like everyone's.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Like yes, and immediately everybody's like Ryan Murphy's salivating over this,
like because he's and like you know, he did like
the Versace murders.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
It's like, way, I mean, did you see the Kiki
Palmer thing. She didn't say who it was, but she's
promoting her book and she did an interview on the
set of Screen Queen. She's talking about how it's like
toxic and crazy and how there was like distress on set,
like people weren't getting along, and she did a thing
where she was just like, hey, guys, like let's you know,

(10:23):
like kumbayah kind of thing. You know, she's very inspirational,
so she was just trying to like get good energy.
And she does an impression that's someone she doesn't name them,
but it has to be Leah Michelle or Emma Roberts,
but I guess they went Kiki, don't who do you
think you are? Martin fucking Luther King? And Keky Palmer though,
is like the way she says it. I've watched it

(10:44):
dozens of times, like her, her cadence, like everything about
her is like perfection, and I keep watching it, and
so the way she mouths it, I'm like, it's Leah Michelle,
but like they both and then she goes, I was gagged.
She goes, I was gagged. I could not believe. I
just got like read racially and I had nothing to say.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I feel like it is her because I feel like,
when all the cancelation stuff about Liah Michelle came up,
people were saying that she said microaggressive and aggressive stuff
to Kiki on the set of Scream Queens, but we
didn't have anything specific at the time. Yeah, so I
think it's definitely Liah Michelle, but.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
It's like Kaky don't, like I don't know it's like incredible.
I'm loving all the press. I need to watch that.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I need to see that, like that video that hasn't
come across. I'll be honest. My entire Explore page is wicked.
It is still wicked. It's like wicked interviews. I'm obsessed
with both Cynthia and Ariana coming out after and being
like we didn't know what was going on either, with
the woman talking about holding space, like I love that
they're just like embracing how crazy that was them talking

(11:48):
to this like sassy little girl who's like interviewing them
and like taking pictures with that.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
I don't know, I just I'm getting all the press. Still.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's like it's like the movie's been out for two
weeks and it's still fully flooding my timeline and I
don't I'm not mad.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
I love the choreography. I also think I might get
into Arianna's album that came out this year. I really
skipped it, but it's on all the top lists, like
people really love it, so I think I gotta. And
I've seen her lot. I mean, I love Ariana. The
Golden Globe nominations came out. I hope she wins. I
hope Wicked gets or the substance. I mean, there's just

(12:22):
so much cool stuff here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I saw a clip of Demi Moore being really excited
she got her nomination for Golden Globe.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
I think that's so cute. Yeah, it's really a thrill.
And I'm excited to see Nicki Glazer host. I think
she's gonna kill it. Like yeah, I think it's like
decades of prep has hit this moment of hopefully killing it.
I mean people notoriously bomb, you know.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, but I think Nikki also is like you have
to have that like good line of like self deprecating
but also confidence, and I think she has that, whereas
Joe Cooy went in being like I'm one of you,
I'm awesome.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, and I don't think it works out for him.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
And so I think, like, yeah, I think she'll I
think she'll nail it probably. I mean this is her year, right,
best year of her life, the Roast, the Globes, it's
all happening.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Cool. I can't wait. Yeah, Yeah, I'm into this Award season.
I saw some I mean, yeah, the songs, we'll see,
we'll see what goes down. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Should we get started with the episode I can't believe
that we're doing this episode after a nationwide manhunt just
started in our area, in our country.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
I know.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Well. I was talking to someone and they're like, do
you think this is just like a big deal because
we're in New York. I go, nah, honey, this isn't
this is big news.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
No, we're all looking and you know what's crazy too,
It's like it's bringing people together. Like Ben Shapiro tried
to release like like an episode of his podcast where
he was like, the bloodthirsty liberal elite are are like
celebrating the murder of this man, and all these people
underneath are like, nope, I'm a conservative and I'm celebrating it.
Like all these people are like, nope, it's all of us.

(14:10):
It's all of us. Like so it's yeah, it's sadly,
it's sadly uniting the country in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
It it really is. But I was like going off
on a friend's pot and he was like, you're you're
having a special come out. Relax. He's like stop talking
like this. I'm like, I want blood in the streets.
You're like this has to be after your special.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Wait are you are you allowed to announce.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I'm sure it's gonna come out January twenty eighth, So
put it on your like reminders or notifications and watch it.
I definitely want people to watch it. But also you
can put it on as you leave the house, so.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, that's the thing. And then as soon as you're
done watching it, start it up and go out put
it on you keep it on an app running on
your phone. We'd love it to get the no we
wanted to be.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
We want it to.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Let's let's all rally, let's all watch it. It would be
awesome for it to, like, you know, be one of
the hot comedy specials coming out on Netflix. I'm so
excited to see it. What are you calling it? It's
called night Owl. Okay, I thought that's what I thought,
but I didn't want to say the wrong thing. Night Owl,
Lisa Tragger exciting. I can't wait. So yeah, this comes

(15:22):
out the thirty first, so it'll be coming out like
four weeks later. Okay, Well that's so great. All right,
should we get started? Well, I guess I should say,
you know, like, happy New Year.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I hope it's fun, chill, safe, positive and yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
And yeah, hopefully you're listening to this while you get
ready to go out to a fun party or you
get ready to sit your ass on the couch and
just do nothing.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
And uh yeah, thanks.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
For another year of listening to our pod and being
cool and you guys are the best. I don't know,
I don't have any resolutions stacked up yet. No, it's
only surviving. Yeah, yeah, survival, that's all we're trying to do.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Then getting it in. But happy new Year to all
of you.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yes, done done, Happy New Year to all.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
And then let's get started with today's epp.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Okay, we are doing today nationwide Manhunt, which is season seventeen,
episode fourteen, and does connect to two episodes we covered recently,
Devil's Dissections and criminal Pathology.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
So if you're glad you have those long fucking war enlightenings.
That's too many words for only three episodes, and they're
not in a row, right, they like bounced around? No,
they know, like those are at the beginning of the season,
I think.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
And then now we're like, you know, like fourteen episode,
thirteen episodes later or something, and we're following up and yes,
Lisa did right in our it's Hulu thirteen.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Ugh, because if you watch on Hulu.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
They make The Devil's dis Sections of Criminal Pathology one episode,
so these are all off but this is episode fourteen.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Just check if you're watching on Hulu anyway. We have
done the episode the next yes, yeah, we have Doank
Abraham one pip A Coox.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh, and the one after this is also yeah, so
if you start watching that, you'll be like, they already
did this one.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Seventeen has a lot. Wanna say, I've watched this one.
I feel like so much because I watched it to
get ready for What's Muggsy Caine? What's Kevin Kane? Yeah,
so that's like his handle, so like so like I've
watched it for him, and then we had Rudnick on.
I watched all of his episodes. So I feel like
for some reason, I have watched this so much that

(17:45):
I was second guessing when I put it on. I
was like, yeah, I already do this, or do we
make a huge mistake? But that's done. It not so weird.
We have a great guest too, It's kind of exciting. Yeah,
I feel like I've zmed with our guests. When the
like our podcast was episode one or two, Like, yeah,
one of the first people we talked to online and

(18:06):
I can't believe the time has come. But yes, the
time has come.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
But also I feel like there's a weird Mandela effect
or something with our podcast where people will be like,
I feel like you've covered this episode. Haven't you covered
this episode? And I'm like, we haven't. You know, it's
like when you think you can't believe it's Barren Stain
Bears instead of Berenstein Bear, you know, like, I don't
know Mandela effect, but that happens a lot. But this

(18:29):
is Yeah, this is a good one.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
So a lot of heavy hitters, a lot of crossover.
I mean, it's really like a busy episode so much.
In fact, it is a Chicago PD crossover. So I do.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
I will give you guys the full synopsis at the
end of the Charicago PED episode very quickly. Not a
full recap, but so this episode, we open on the
kitchen of someone who has been hard at work. Okay,
my kitchen does not look like this. The counter is
covered in an ingredients, sauce is spilled, spices are returned.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Someone is pulling all my I do have to say,
you know, how I mentioned the dish podcasts and how
I was like, love you. We've been getting a lot
of comments from listeners. I love it. I've been getting
all these messages. This broadcaster someone wrote to me. They're
like the way you talked about him. I looked him up.
He's a national treasure. He has over a million followers.
He's like Britain's little broadcasting angel with the BBC for decades.

(19:23):
And I was like, oh, who's this little podcaster? It
was this guy. I think it's because she has all
these Michelin stars and she's doing the cooking that and
and it's because the way he talked about it, but
it just shows that parents are crazy. But that he
was just saying on one of the episodes how his
parents are like when are you gonna get a real job?
You know you just talking to a mic and so
I assumed he was like early in his career. But yeah,

(19:45):
he's like very very well known, very well known. So
that's embarrassing for me.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, I got to listen to that because or watch
the shorts. I guess everybody is so into it that has.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Been writing us.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
But anyway, these people they should have next, they should
have this next character on their podcast, because she is
pulling a delicious lasagna out of the oven. And when
we get a look at her, it is none other
than Bronwyn Freed, who we you remember her as Bronwin Freed.
Now she's Bronwin Freed Wilkins. We'll get into it later

(20:17):
and you may remember her. We met her in season fifteen.
She was a juror on the William Lewis case. Who
that who clearly they've done this on us for you
a bunch of times, but like clearly is entering into
a flirtation with William Lewis in the courtroom, then corresponds
with him from in prison, then sneaks him propranolol frosted

(20:37):
cupcakes which help him escape, and then she later testifies
against Benson's use of force against William Lewis. Like she's
a real pick me girl, and she literally, I think,
is up there with Bing Bang Bong as like one
of the most hated SCU characters you know, and she
you will remember that at the end of Criminal Pathology,

(20:59):
she's just sitting in the courtroom when Rudnick is getting
his entering his plea or getting his guilty verdict. At
the very end of this of the episode, she's just
at the trial as a spectator, like nodding along. So
you're like, hm, why, like why they're planting a seed
baby for season episode fourteen. So now she's baking lasagna
and she's obviously up to no good because this is SBU.

(21:21):
It's not top chef, Like, we're not just watching a
woman bake a lasagna for fun. We see her place
a fat stack of cash in a ziploc bag and
then tuck it into the lasagna like on the bottom.
She does the same for a flip phone, some tiny
little saws, and then paint brushes.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
I mean, this is her whole night.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
This lady is having a time like uh and they
had an edible.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, yeah, she had an edible.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
She's probably got a podcast on, and she is making
a little lasagna filled with treats. So we cut to
Benson on the phone with the Chicago PD guy with
like the insanely gravelly voice named.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Voight who's always like Benson, you.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Know, and she's telling him, oh, well, Yates is saying
he can id some of the bones that we found
in Pelham Bay, and he's saying that they're Midwestern runaways
and he wants to talk to Rollins about it, but
Benson's like, I don't want her my bestie playing Chlorice
Starling anymore. And basically she's like, so could you send
your hot detective over here aka Aaron Lindsay who is

(22:19):
Sophia Bush of One Tree Hill Fame and now Chicago
p D Fame. I guess, And she still hasn't forgiven
herself for what Yates did to Nadia. If you'll remember
from the episode day Dream a lot of yeah, this
is really yeah. If you guys remember the episode where
we talked to Dallas Roberts, who plays Gregory Yates, is

(22:39):
called Daydream Believer, and that was another Chicago ped crossover
where he takes a Chicago PD gal, drives her to
New York, murders her, and then we find out that
he's like killed all these other people in New York
as well. But he's been this guy's been bopping back
and forth from Chicago, Chicago to New York, just killing
people everywhere. And so now he's you know, offering them
info and Ben's like, Okay, well, why don't you use

(23:01):
your detective's trauma to get her to talk to Yates
and see if she can, like you know, use her,
use her trauma to get more info out of him.
So now we cut to Lindsay in a cab and
he wasted no time sending her to New York. And
don't worry, she is not alone. She's with Detective Antonio
Dawson as well, and she's having flashbacks the whole time
about her friendship with Nadia. Just in case you are

(23:23):
watching and you don't know what's going on. She's like
remembering how they found Nadia. I think I think Nadia
has a similar backstory to Lindsay, where she came from
the street and was brought on to start.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Working at the police department.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
So anyway, we cut to green Haven Correctional Facility, which
is a real prison.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I feel like, yeah, they do use real prisons.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's a real prison where Yates is looking at photos
of bones and you know, obviously looking horny as hell,
Like as soon as he sees any dead body torture pictures,
he's like, oh my god, he's so hot for it.
He says, the girls were driven from Chicago.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's actually how he got found Gil right, didn't he
get too horny on the stand looking at the mountain?

Speaker 1 (24:03):
They basically yeah, they basically.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Lured him the slam dunk.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, they lured his hormone monster out of him with
like photos of tortured dead girls and he was like, yes,
so that is the big slim dunk. And he says
the girls from Chica were driven were you know, the
way he talks when he's talking to the cops is
all like hypothetical. He's like, well, yeah, these girls were
probably driven from Chicago to he says that bleak Bronx boneyard,

(24:29):
and I like the alliteration. I mean you can say
that a lot of times fast, like bleak Bronx Boneyard.
And he's like, isn't that where they found your friend Nadia?
Like he's immediately trolling Aaron Lindsay. Dawson's like okay, dude,
like we heard you had info. Cough it up, and
he's just like fucking with them. He's like, yeah, you
want to know about bodies, how they get there, what
happened to them. And then they show him a bunch

(24:50):
of pictures of young girls, which, of course, as we said,
the horny, the horniness.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Rises up again.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
He says, well, they probably didn't look like this when
their killer met them, when they were at a truck's stop,
pouring themselves out for cocaine, and I like, I don't
remember Yates having this like sir vibe. Yeah, exactly, like
a moral high ground. Like I thought he just kind
of killed because he was like a lust killer and
like they compare him to Ted Bundy a lot. I
didn't think he was, Like I disagree with their lifestyle,

(25:17):
so I'm gonna kill them. But he talks, he's trolling
eron again, going you must know the power of addiction,
and he says, Nadia told me all about you, how
Voight took you off the street and mentored you. And
Lindsay's like, okay, fuck this, we're out of here. This
guy's not giving us anything. And he's like, tell the warrant.
I'd be much more comfy with Detective Rollins. But they're like,
he's she's not coming up here, and he goes, she

(25:40):
must have had her baby by now. I mean the
way he lights up like it's his own child having
a baby and he's going to be a grandpa.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
He's like, oh, is it a boy or a girl?

Speaker 1 (25:49):
He's like so excited and it's so creepy how excited
he is, Like this Dallas Roberts is a great actor,
and he's like, well, if you want closure for these families,
get Rollins here by tomorrow. So he's got a deadline. Okay,
he wants to talk to this new mom bad. Now
we're at the credits and at the precinct. Rollins is like,

(26:12):
I told you I should have gone, like, I'm the
Yates whisperer, and it's the whole gang. It's Rowins, Benson, Careese,
Baby Dodds, plus our two Chicago PD gal and guy,
Lindsay and Dawson. They're like, we've got four women. So
stupid to have another Dawson in television. There's only one
Dawson and he lives on a creek, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's like crazy that they would do this, so true.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Stop and Aaron. Lindsay is two first names. It's very
she has a very hot girl. That's a very hot
girl name, I feel. But we have four women who
went missing around the time that Yates was living in Chicago,
and one of the girls was actually a patient at
his urgent care. And Lindsay's like, well he seemed to
recognize her. I'm like, I don't know. He was kind

(26:54):
of getting a mutual boner for all of the women
in the photos.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
I never really saw any recognition.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
But Dodds is like, but he's a pealing his cases,
like why would he confess to more crimes?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
And Rollins is like.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
You guys are fucking idiots, Like only I know how
to handle serial killers. He never confesses. You got to
keep the conversation hypothetical. And then he fills in the rest.
I mean, she's acting like it's she's like a full
like profiler. It's like, I don't really think that's that
crazy of a tactic. Benson could probably do it too.
So Benson caves and is like, fine, Rowins can go,

(27:25):
but Caries you're going with. And Rolinds was like, no,
let me go alone, and Benson's like no, like we've
all got like his number. It's fine, we can other
people can go too. So now we're at green Haven
and it's actually Rudnik. We see Rudnick and another inmate
sitting in a and if you'll remember, at the very
end of Criminal Pathology, Yates walks up to I'm sorry,

(27:46):
Rudnick walks up to Yates in the cafeteria. So we
see these two like reconnect. And now Rudnick is sitting
in with another inmate in a small group therapy session
and they're talking about navigating interpersonal conflict without anger or violence,
and uh, look who's leading the fucking group. It's Bronwyn baby.
She is like quietly therapizing that, like talking in a

(28:08):
very gentle like everybody turned to your partner, and Rudnick
and the other inmate, Jose, are talking about how they
worked through a problem with one another. It's like they're
kind of making a like at first, I was like forgetting.
I was forgetting like the plot of this episode, and
was like are they hooking up? Like why are they
having this conflict? And then she pairs them off so
that they can sense one another's emotions, and then Yates

(28:30):
walks in and he's like, sorry, I'm late. I was
in the law library. There's just so many inmates here
who need my help. Like he's this like benefactor at
the jail, at the prison. And Yates intimidates Jose, the
other inmate, into skdaddling so that he can be Rudnik's
empathy partner, and then Yates asks, so is missus Wilkins

(28:51):
still bringing you those deep lasagna pans and Rudnick's like,
that's not your concern, and Yeates is like, yes, it is,
because you just can't beat home cooking. So what's going
on between these two, let's find out. Now Outside of Greenhaven,
the cops are meeting with the warden, who is Anna
Devere Smith, who I love. I think I studied her
in college because she's like a performance artist. And she

(29:14):
also people know her from the West Wing. I know
her as Acolitis in Nurse Jackie. She's like the president
of the hospital in Nurse Jackie, who's always like a
thorn in Jackie's side. And she's a member of the Academy.
Excuse me, she's been voted into the Academy. I just
saw that when I was glancing at her Wikipedia. So
she's taking Rollin's and cares to get, like, you know,

(29:35):
on a little walk and talk and telling them, Yah,
Yates has been well behaved.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
He volunteers, he's a model inmate.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
And Cariese's like, that's kind of strange for a guy
who's never getting parole, right, she goes, I don't know.
Sometimes the lifers get zen and try to make the
best of it, or they want to get a transfer upstate.
So now CARESI tells Rolins like see he chomed the Warden,
classic sociopath classic, and dude, it's like, this is why
she won't sleep with you, Like she knows you don't
need to. Man's plain serial killers to this mindhunter bitch,

(30:04):
you know, like she you don't need to be Like
see Rollins, here's what you don't get. He's he's charming people.
It's like, yeah, that's like Ted Bundy one oh one.
So Yates sees Rollins and immediately says motherhood becomes you
and ask asks how did you lose the baby weight
so fast? Like it's gross, And then he's telling her
you're glowing? Are you breastfeeding? Like why, I don't know.

(30:25):
It's such an icky, like gross extra thing about him
that he's obsessed with pregnancy, you know. And because it's
not like he's yeah, he's not like a pedophile or anything.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
He's just like a perv. And then like he like
explaining games and so it's like a way to fuck
with people, and Rollins makes it feel unsafe and uneasy, yeah,
because they're so vulnerable, like man that he's in tune,
you know, he's he like felt that she was pregnant
before she even told anyone.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, he could like smell the pheromones or something like
a little freak.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, totally so gross.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
So Carisi interrupts to be her white Knight, but she
calls him off. She's like, it's okay, Creesy, and then
she winks at Yates. I had to rewind it like
three times. She does a full wink at Yates. She's shameless, Okay,
I know she's using every tool in that slutty little.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Toolbox of hers.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
And he he was like, I was hurt that you
tried to send the Chicago detectives in your place. And
then they give him more photos and again Boner City immediately,
and one woman he suggests, well, she might be out.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
She's not in New York.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
She might be out near a truck stop near where
she went missing, quote unquote, waiting in the weeds. So
this is how he gives his little hints where he
never confesses, but he gives you information. Others he says,
are possibly in Pelham Bay, but you know you have
to get to give It's very Hannibal Lecter Quinn pro
quot doctor. And he wants to be transferred to Honor Block,

(31:52):
which is what it sounds like. It's like where all
the goody goodies get to go in prison, and Dodds
is now they're talking to the whole gang. Dodds is like,
there's no way he's going to get honor block. He's
a serial killer. And Careesy, who they're face timing their
fast facetiming with Rollins and Creesy from Greenhaven, is like, well, actually,
once you get in here, like how you got here
doesn't really matter that much. Like they use honor Block

(32:13):
as a reward for good behavior, and he made a
show of good faith and told them about the girl
near the truck stop. This girl is named Shavon Kelly,
and he suggests that they check truck stops outside of Gary, Indiana.
So like, at least he's giving them closure on one victim,
but he's not going to give them more unless he's transferred.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
So let's see if the warden will approve it.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
And the warden goes, well, we can offer solitary and
they're like, well, Yanes is afraid he's going to go crazy,
And I'm like, why would solitary be a reward for anyone,
Like I think, isn't that where you go when you're
doing bad and they want you to keep you away
from everybody and make you go nuts and be friends
with a cockroach Like I don't know, I don't know
why they thought that. She thought that would be like
a counteroffer, but they thought of She's like, we actually

(32:56):
thought of.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Transferring him to Honor Block.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
But Rudnick is there, and you know, I've heard they
have history, and then they start chatting about the history,
which we all know, and she goes, well, this could
be a ploy for Yates to get revenge on Rudnick,
and Rollins is like, listen, babe, if that's what Yates wanted,
it would have happened already. And the Warden's like, well,
we'll ask Rudnick about it, and Carsey goes, well, if

(33:18):
I may. He is my road trip best friend, and
I would love to talk to him and see if
I cannot, like you know, chat with him and see
if he'll go for this. So now we cut to
Rudnick and Cares strolling inside the prison. Rudnick is unbothered.
He's like, I'm not worried about Yates. I can handle
that pedestrian sociopath, which I love the way he talks.
Friend of the Pad Jefferson mays and cares clocks the

(33:42):
huge panel lasagna in rudnick cell but you know, doesn't
really think of anything about it. Like the camera kind
of finds this poster of Switzerland that's on the wall
as well, and Rudnick wants to know, like what leverage
did Yeates use to get his transfer, and Caresee's like, well,
you know, I can't tell you that, and Reudnick's I
hope you're not still eating bacon. You saw the World

(34:03):
Health Organization's study on that, and Careese says he did,
but there's no way he did. I just don't know
how Caresy is getting access to World Health Organization studies.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
But he's like, yeah, yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I'm trying to cut back, and they shake hands, like
they shake hands like this man is not an absolute
cold blooded killer who I will remind everyone cut a
woman up while she was alive and thank you for
the reminder. Yeah, just so you know, it's like, we
do love the actor. He's very charming and the bacon
conbo is cute, but he is a cold blooded killer
and I guess the transfer went through, but it's too

(34:36):
late for them to talk to Yates again, and so
Rollins is like, I gotta go relieve my sitter, but
I'll be back first thing in the morning, and Benson's like,
no way, bitch, he got to talk to you from
now on. He talks to Benson and Careese's like, yeah,
she doesn't want you coming back up here, and Rollins's.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Like, why not. Why does everyone keep saying that I'm.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Just flirting and winking at a serial rapist and a brutal,
blood thirsty murderer, Like what's the problem. And Rollins tries
to compare like her Yates thing with Cariese's Rudnick thing,
and Rudnick's like, I just like talking to the guy,
Like it's a little bit different. I'm not like a
winking at him, you know, and spraying my pheromones all
around him for fun. So back inside the prison, Yeates

(35:16):
says hi to Rudnick on the way to his new cell,
and he references missus Wilkins again, calling her a miracle worker,
and Rudnick looks concerned and he's like, just so we're clear,
Yates says, I'm gonna be there when that miracle happens.
And I don't know how Yates even knows what's going
on with Bronwin, but we find that out later.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
What I want to know, I mean, Yates can smell
if someone's pregnant. I think he could tell if there's
a plan being something going on.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
That's true, that's true, but he reads Why did Rudnick
say yes? If Rudnick had just said no, Yates wouldn't
be bothering him, if he'd been like, oh, I can't no,
Like they went to Yate Rudnick and they were like,
is it okay with you?

Speaker 2 (35:55):
If Yates comes here?

Speaker 1 (35:56):
And he goes, yeah, I can handle that pedestrian psychopath
or whatever, And it's like, if you had just said no,
he wouldn't be in your grill and bothering you.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, that's why it's a little confusing. But because I
thought it was all they were all in on it together.
But you find out kind of later that it's not that, oh,
you're right, redneck is like, what you're here? But he
didn't Yeah, but you did say it was okay. So anyway,
top of that two, now it's Benson and baby Dodds
rolling up to green Also, Bronwyn could have just told
Yates too, well, yes, yes, that's right. We I think

(36:28):
we find that out later that that is what happened
because she threatened her or whatever. Yes, but I didn't
know when I was writing my notes yet how he knew.
But they so okay, Now it's Benson and baby Dolls
rolling up to green Haven and Benson's done with the games.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
If Yates wants to stay on a honor block, he
better spill.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Okay inside the uh Barba is there as well, and
Benson goes, I didn't know Uber came to green Haven,
which is like I feel like it's like a funny dig,
like he can't drive himself anywhere or whatever.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
But I think maybe Uber was fancy and twenty fifteen,
Like I yeah, I like, how is that a dig? Really?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Like I yeah, because I mean it's like he wouldn't
have taken the train and he wouldn't have driven in
a police car because he's like too bougie.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I don't really know.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I don't really know what's up, but like basically I
looked up green Haven and it is like an hour
and a half north of Manhattan, so you know that's
a that's a pricey uber ride, and Barbara just goes,
promise me, you won't stop for food until we get
back to the city.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Like he's so boogie.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
He's like, how dreadful eating in the Hudson Valley.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
No, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Green Haven is ninety minutes north of the city in
Duchess County, and Dodds, Barba, and Benson are now all
waiting to meet with Yates, and the warden says, oh,
we're just clearing the yard and like that, like and
you know, the first night on the block with Rudnick
and Yeates together was all good, no problems. So then
Dodds attempts to kiss ass by being like, oh, my
dad says hi like he pulls the daddy cart and

(37:54):
the warden barely gives a shit. She does not even
look up. She goes, oh, yeah, I see a resemblance.
Tell him I said hello. She does, she does not care.
They radio to escort Yates out, but he's not in
a cell. Jose the inmate from earlier who's Rudnik cellmate,
is sitting at a table and he's This whole prison
area reminds me of where they are and like the
final season of Orange is the New Black, where they

(38:16):
have like the tables in the middle and stuff of
all their cells are around and this guy's just like
cuddling a sheepskin jacket, like that's like his little his
little comfort object. And those jackets always remind me of
Misery the movie Misery, where that sheriff gets like shot
in the back and he's wearing a sheep skin jacket.
But the CEO questions him like, hey, where's your where's Yates?

(38:39):
Where's your cell mate? And he doesn't know where Yates
is and he thinks that Rudnik is probably volunteering in
the clinic. So back at the precinct, Rollins is pissed.
She's kicking a soda machine and Careesy's like, look, I
have the answer. My sister took melatonin for her postpartum,
Like what a fucking idiot, Like she's not she's not
postpar she's pished, she can't go on the trip like

(39:02):
she's it's and Rollins is like, bitch, I'm not depressed.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I want to talk to serial killers and no one
will let me.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
And uh and also like I don't know, I did
not I never had postpartum. I think it's a little
bit more serious than taking melowtnin. I don't think you
can just be like I just need to get some sleep.
It's like a little bit more like chemical than that.
And Rollins says Yates is gonna feel ganged up on
up there, and like he's gonna be mad at me
for pulling a bait and switch on him, Like she's

(39:28):
very concerned about Yates's feelings, you know. And then all
her soda machine kicking actually works and a soda does
drop out, and Creasy's like, it's great to see how
motherhood's mellowed you out, and Rollins is like yeah, and
I hate this shit. I hate being coddled. I have
a baby, and I can't talk to serial killers anymore,
Like what the fuck? And I kind of I feel
her on that. I don't like people shouldn't treat you

(39:48):
like you're like delicate just because you had a baby,
you know, if you want to be a badass. So
back at the prison, Barba's like, oh, so your dad
knows the warden and Baby Duds is like, yeah, yeah,
he knows everybody. It's like okay, and then Benson's like,
hold the fuck up, like what she's looking out the
window and she's like, are those drones? And then they
see a drone flying above the prison yard. A guard

(40:11):
radio starts radioing like code blue, code blue, as the
prisoners start to like, you know, sort of mob to
see what's going on with this drone. And then the
other CEO is still looking for Yates in the library.
He's not there. Now we're back to Dodds and the drones.
He's like, yeah, I've heard of people using drones to
drop guns and drugs. And then the drone drops something
and the prisoners starts swarming. They start punching each other out.

(40:33):
It's like a full like riot situation because they're all
trying to get to whatever packages these drones are dropping.
And then boom, two more drones are like right coming
behind them. So Barba is stressing and Dodds is like,
Barba is like, I am not going to die in
this prison, no, thank you. I am in an expensive suit,
and Dodds is like we're fine. And they're getting really

(40:53):
snappy with each other and Benson is like, boys enough,
like cut it. And now they're investigating the package and
the package is filled with drugs, a phone, a tiny
little gun, like a very little gun. And then this
one CEO, who I feel bad they gave the skuy
one line and it is one of the worst line
readings of all time, Like I'm so obsessed. He goes, now,

(41:14):
we're going to have to check the spokes in all
of these waterheads, like he just says it.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
It's such a funny way, like it's.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
You should go back and listen to it, Like he
just is dead like when he's saying this line. So
back in Manhattan, Lindsay is hanging up the phone with
Voight and he's like, She's like, want he wants us
back in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Our little New York City boondoggle is over.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
And Dawson's like, we should at least wait and find
out what Yates has to say. It feels like he
has Hamilton tickets and he does not want to leave.
So back at the prison, the CEOs are doing a
very chill check of the cells, like there no one
is running, no one is like where are they? And
guess what, Yates and Rudnick are still missing. No one
has been concerned about it, really, They ask jose the
guy with the jacket, uh, snuggling the jacket and he's like,

(41:54):
I don't know anything, and then they get it. They
grab his jacket and they go, you better tell us
what's going on, or we're gonna send you to Gen
Pop without your blankie.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
And then he's like, they'll kill.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Me if I talk, and he goes, I don't know anything,
but he clearly does, and then he kind of glances
towards that Switzerland poster that I mentioned earlier, and then
the CEO puts his hand through the Switzerland poster in
a move right out of Shawshank redemption, and there.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Is a huge hole in the wall.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
And I just think movie posters need to be outlawed
after a Shawshank redemption, Like you just can't have them
in jail, like you killed someone, you don't get to core,
Like that's that has to be the rule, because they
just keep building holes through the posters. So the warden
breaks the news to Benson, Barbara, and Baby about Rudnik
and Yates being missing, and it becomes really quickly clear

(42:41):
that they have escaped.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
And Dodds is like, well, they must have had help.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
So now Benson's talking to Jose and he's like and
Jose immediately goes, yo, I heard about what you went
through with William Lewis. That was fucked up, That wasn't right.
He was a bad man, and it's like, what did
Jose do. He's like a little sweetie buye. He's like,
I'm so sorry about your ordeal with the other serial killer,
like that was really wrong.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
And then they tell Jose so funny that like they
have gossip in the prison. I know.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
They're like, you've heard about that, that was fucked Like
you know you don't do that. So they tell Jose
like listen, we'll get and she is a gay icon, like.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
I could just see him wanting to butter up Benson. Yes,
so true.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
But Jose is scared of Yates and Rudnick, like he's
scared of them, and they're like, listen, we'll get you transferred,
just like tell us what's going on. And he's like, okay,
it's been a few months.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
He must have gotten the tools somehow. He worked at night.
He told me to shut my eyes and pretend to
sleep or else he wouldn't take me with him. So
poor Jose was supposed to be on the ride out
of the jail, but he got left behind with his blankye,
and he tells them Rudnick didn't plan on Yates going,
but Yates insisted that he was going, and Rudnick caved.
And now they're talking to the warden and Benson's like,

(43:53):
jose told them that these guys knew how to breach
the prison walls. And Barba's like, please tell me after
Dana Mora, you sealed everything up, she said, which I'm
sure we're going to get into. But the movie escaped
from Dana Mora starring Patricia Arquette a SVU MVP, I
would say, one of the best guest stars of all time.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
And uh, the.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Warden goes, yes, we sealed we we welded up all
the manholes, we checked all the access points. Like this
guest who directed that mini series? I think Ben Stiller. Yeah, yes,
I don't know how I knew that. It was like
nominated for all these awards.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
And I want to awards. I want a bunch nominated
for a bunch. I don't know where I've been, never
even heard of it, Like, oh, did not know it
was a thing at all? Well, I don't know why
I was so disconnected. I'm usually it was an.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
HBO movie, like it wasn't like a movie that came
out in theaters or anything. It was like an HBO
movie or TV. Is it a series, it's amazing series.
It's a mini series. Yeah, like like five or six
episodes or something. Yeah, it was HBO. But I only
heard about it when it won all the awards, Like
that was only That's.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Like the only reason I know about the Stiller parks.
I think I remember on stage. I just think about
Patrici shark Head in a the act. Yeah, I haven't
seen that yet. But she really goes she really takes
fucked up parts and smashes it.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah, she's awesome. Oh, Casey's pointing out it was Showtime. Sorry,
rip Showtime. It was on Showtime. One of the last
things they squeezed out before they completely collapsed.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Does a network.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
So yeah, she's telling them everything's sealed up. This is
a lock box. There's no way they got out of here. Like,
there's somewhere. She keeps saying there's somewhere in here. They're
in the interior of the prison somewhere. And then Dodds
clocks this like steam pipe and he's like, what's this.
She's like, it's a steam pipe and He's like, well,
it's not hot. And so it turns out the electric
company was doing repairs on it last night for a
few hours. Then Dodds goes around finds a cutout in

(45:48):
the side of the pipe which leads to the damn street.
And I will say that the cutout part looks like
it's in an orange call, Like the whole side of
the pipe is orange. And I think that's the paint
she was putting into the lasagna at the beginning, because
I was like, what she was putting in like a
little paint can with like little paint brushes, And I
think that's what it was, so that they could like

(46:09):
cut that out and then like make it so they
could get back to it and not have it be
discovered before the big escape. So they get out to
the street and the warden is like, I had this sealed,
Like I had this cover sealed, And Olivia's like, Rudneck
has family money.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
He probably bribed someone to unseal it.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
And I love the idea of him just being like,
dear cousin, please go into the bank account and then
I need you to go unsealed. This great outside my
prison in Upstate New York, and they find a note
that says I think I'll miss you most of all, Scarecrow,
which we didn't even we didn't even choose that in
the season of Wicked. Right now, but you know, you
can't escape Wicket at the moment, so a little Wizard

(46:49):
of Oz reference for you there. And Barba sees that
it's written in green nail polish, which, if you recall,
is a Yate signature, like he used to paint his
victim's nail.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
This green color.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
And just as the warden is like where's the Conell crew, baby,
Dodds pipes up and he's like, we got a body
over here, and sadly there is a poor electrical worker
lying there with a snapneck, and they're like, well, these
guys work in twos, where's his partner? Meanwhile, the warden
is suspicious of Rollins. She goes, so he escapes right
after your detective pushes to get him on honor block.

(47:23):
Like even the warden is like, something's going on with
those two, you know, And Benson defends her and is like, no,
she had nothing to do with this, and Barba's like, look,
he had outside help, the drones, the drugs, the hole
in the wall.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
This has been planned for months.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
This says that like Rollins was literally like on maternity leave,
pushing a baby out while this was being planned, Like,
she's not the one we're after here. And meanwhile, they've
been slowly lowering one of those bucket things that electrical
workers work in, and when they look inside, you guessed
it another guy with a snapneck who works for the
electrical company. And then I think, Barbara goes they killed

(47:56):
the guys who helped them escape, and I'm like, I don't.
I thought that they just killed two electrical workers, but
I guess these guys somehow helped them escape. But and
they will kill again, so they're very dangerous.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
And guess what.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
The last time they were seen was six am, and
they have a nine hour head start, so they could
be anywhere. The Warden's like, get Rollins up here. So
Rollins is gonna get her wish again. She's gonna get
another trip to green Haven, so, oh my god. Act
three opens up with New York City Legend. New York
one News anchor Pat Kiernan. I love this guy so much.

(48:27):
He's he I think still is but was forever an
NY one News anchor, which is like York New York
City's like local news channel.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
And this credit.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
He has so many credits because he plays himself in
so many TV shows and movies, but this credit's not
on his IMDb, which is crazy. He also hosted a
show I was obsessed with called The World Series of
Pop Culture because I thought I could be on it,
but I was no way good enough to be on it.
And he's reporting on the nationwide man hunt. Drink for
the name of the show of the episode, and it's
you know. They show pictures of run Nick and Yates

(48:58):
and he's cautioning the public not interact with them. They're
like dangerous, they could be armed. And now Benson's updating Voight.
He's gonna send Lindsay and Dawson back. They were apparently
about to board a plane back to Chicago, but they
need all the manpower they can get.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
They need these two Chicago people.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
So now the warden is leading a huge team of
people made up of like cops, FBI, state troopers. Like
it's huge. It's like a massive task force or whatever.
And guess who she turns it over to hit to
friend of the pod, Kevin Kane, who we talked about before.
He is the most he I think has the most
characters ever played on U s for you like, and

(49:34):
he's some kind of state police captain here and you know,
now he's a series regular. I wanted to bring this
up on the intro tomorrow, so I don't know if
we want to cut this, but he did make it
into the credits. He's a series regular on the season
right now, so I'm excited for him. SVU is downloading
all these law enforcement officers about these guys, like, here's
their deal, Here's what their m o's are. They're dangerous sociopaths.

(49:56):
They will not hesitate to kill. And Kevin Kane is like,
we've got we're searching house to house, we've got infrared
in the sky. This is like his Tommy Lee Jones
in the Fugitive Speech. He's like, I want you to
search every inch of this county, every in house, out house,
back house, you know, like famous Fugitive speech. Another Chicago movie, right,
that movie's in Chicago, I think.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Besides Feris Buehler like that's number two for me? Is
the Future VI in terms of Chicago? Yeah, yeah, movies,
those are my top two. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Sure, people like the Dark Night, but I just I
haven't seen it. So Kevin Kane asks Barbara, how bout
are these guys? And Barbara goes, think Ted Bundy and
Robert Durst on the run together, which good one. Now
Benson and Rollins are grilling jose On like who would
have helped them?

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Who? How did they get out?

Speaker 1 (50:45):
And he doesn't want to talk, and he goes cause
I like her, And then obviously we know where this
is going.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
He gives up bron Win Freed Wilkins.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
She teaches their conflictunt Transformation class, but I think he
just calls her missus Wilkins. Okay, so I'm about lasagna
and they're like, what about the CEO's And he's like,
the CEO's like the lasagna too, And then.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
A CEO is like they're talking to with CEO.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
And he goes, yeah, I just I didn't know there
was anything in there. I thought it was just lasagna.
And they're like, you didn't run it through the metal detector,
and he goes she asked if I could hand check it.
She didn't want those cancer rays to hit her lunch.
They give you cancer, like it's like so funny, like
you walk through a metal detector every day, but your
lunch can't. Like I don't know. The CEO wants his rep.
He's like, I'm not talking anymore. I know I fucked

(51:29):
up here. I want my rep. So now SVU is
in a walk and talk with the warden who is
describing Bronwyn. And when Benson.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Hearsay, do you want to try this LASAGNYA yeah, everybody's
going gog offer this lasagna. It's letting people completely lose
their jobs. But Benson, here's the name Bronwyn and is like,
alarm bells right. She goes, wait, her name is Bronwyn,
and then the warden goes, yeah, bron Win Wilkins. But
she got married last month and when she became Wilkins,

(51:57):
she was Bronwin freed before Benson is like what in
the fuck? Like she's like, she helps another guy get
out of jail, like Rollins is like, how did you
not run a background check? But it turns out Barbara
reveals to Benson for the first time and to her
big surprise, that the charges for Bronwyn for aiding William

(52:19):
Lewis's escape were dropped because of political pressure to cover
up corruption in the prison system. And Benson's like are.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
You fucking and like they can't Like Rollinson's like, we
can't even get into this right now. But like she's like,
isn't she flagged at rikers? And the Warden's like sure,
but that's city. We're state, so they won't even communicate
with each other.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
I know how bad the warden is, but doesn't care,
Like this is like the worst warden we've ever seen.
She is so on the floor. She's so flighty. Yeah,
she's like I I mean usually they're like sticklers or asked,
you know, I'm the warden, and this she's just like, oh,
come on.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
She doesn't seem upset at all that two fucking serial
killers have just escaped her prison. I mean, you could
lose your job, right, isn't that kind of like on
your watch that this happened?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Like he does not chill man.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
She took an edible before work, she or she had
them hand check her bag and she's got her edibles
in there, okay, because she's not she's not caring, okay,
And Rollins is like, I'm done playing games and she
tells the she like yells at the ward and she's like,
I'm done with this little like ditsy Warden routine cough
up an address. So now they're at Bronwin's residence, which

(53:36):
is in Stormville, New York, where green Haven actually is,
and the cops are swarming it. And like I was
looking at the timeline, like the Rudnick trial was in June, okay,
and it's February. So in eight months, this woman relocated
to Duchess County, got a job at the prison, got married,
and helped hatch a full jail break. Women really do

(53:57):
get everything done. I mean they do get shit done.
Do be getting it done. The cops bust in and
there's just a dude sitting on the couch watching NASCAR
and eating you guessed it, lasagna, and he is Kyle.
He is Bronwy's husband, and he's like, what, I'm her husband.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
She had an.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Emergency, she took my car. And that's that guy's that's
a wrap on Bronwin's husband. That's all we see from him.
We don't get him anymore. They track down the vehicle.
The dogs picked up the scent, but like they of
the two guys, but they've ditched the car. Caresy finds
a prison jumpsuit, a dress and a wig in a dumpster,
and then liv goes, now, the question is where's Rudnick's body?

(54:37):
And I'm like, I don't know why you assume Rudnick
is dead. That's a weird line for me. The dog
picks up a smell and everybody goes running. They find
a car nearby with whimpering sounds coming from the trunk,
and they bust it open and it's Bronwyn. She's tied
up and she's taped over the mouth. They rip up
off that duct tape. They don't give a fuck, and

(54:59):
Lindsay goes, here's Yeates and she was like, I haven't seen.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Them since before noon. Please help me.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Please help me, And no one has any fucking love
for her. Benson snarls. She's like, get her out of here,
like they don't care about this woman. And now we're
getting a summary from a different New York One reporter
Cheryl Wills on TV. She's explaining the two fugitives had
a female accomplice. At the state Police, Rollins and Barbara
are questioning Bronwyn and she's like, listen, I was working

(55:27):
with Rudnick on his impulse issues. He's a sensitive man
and we grew close, and she's telling them like she
brought gifts to Rudnick. She's like, you know, the usual
stuff you bring a prisoner, organic soaps, spices. Benson's like,
how about hack saws, and Bronwin goes, it might not
be good for Benson to be here.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
She has a lot of anger towards me. It's like, yes, lol,
you were.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Basically in love with the man that gave her like
the worst drama of her life, so yeah, she doesn't
love you. And then Benson is arguing with Bronwyn and
she's like, no, Rudnick is a man and lives like
he chopped a woman into pieces. And bron Win's like,
I don't know that Rutnick. I don't know that side
of him, and Rollin says like, listen, I'm sure he
was nice to you. But then Benson is like, girl,

(56:10):
they left you to die in the trunk of a car.
It's fucking February and upstate New York, by the way,
like she would have absolutely frozen to death in a
few more hours.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Barba tells her, you're looking at felony chargers.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Girl, just give us everything, okay, So that the squad
gets some traffic camstills of two little ladies on a
road trip, and you got it, it's Rudnick and Yates.
Somebody I think it's Greasi goes, yeah, two women in
a suber who's not going to raise any flags. And
I do feel like this is a lesbian joke, like
a quiet lesbian joke, because you know, it is a

(56:43):
classic lesbian car. Subaru's So they dumped Brounwin because Yates
said she's served her purpose, and then Rudnick said he
would kill her, but he just fired a shot in
the air and threw her in the trunk. And bron
Win's like, he's saved my life. Like she's still so like,
you know, enamored of Rudnick, like he's like guy. So
Bronwin apparently gave Rudnick a gun and a map of

(57:04):
Aderondeck Steak Park. Coresian Dodds are rolling out the map
of the park and Kevin King goes, uh, just so
you guys know, that's six million acres. And I don't
really know why we ever talk in acres. Why can't
we just do miles. I don't understand acreage, but six
million of anything seems like a lot Rudnick originally tried
to run for Buffalo in his first case, and Yates
when he got out one on his killing spree, so

(57:24):
we can't even be sure that these two are together anymore.
Bronwyn is now continuing her tale, telling Barbara that Yates
found out that she and Rudnick were intimate, and Barbara
goes physically and she goes no spiritually of course, like,
of course I wouldn't go so far as to fucking inmate.
I just got him all the tools to get out
of jail and we had an emotional affair. So it

(57:47):
turns out Yates found out about the lasagna. She told
him one more time.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
I know it's crazy, like Garfield's favorite episode, I really
so true said.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
You have to take a shot of Marnera every time
I say lasagna in this episode. Okay, So she told
Yates the Rudnick escape plan and she's like, I had
to or he said he was going to kill my
husband and boins him go boints, sorry, I'm like on
drugs today, Benson points out, is funny.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Because I was saying Benson points.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
At the same time Boinson points and points out he's
in prison and your husband is thirty miles away. How
exactly were you feeling a direct threat to your husband's safety?
And Bronman goes, you know that when Yates wants something
violent to happen, he finds a way, and she's not wrong,
like he does get shit done in terms of U yes,
but exactly. But I think she was like, I'm looking

(58:46):
after my husband. I had to get I had to
give him what he wanted or he was going to
find a way to kill my husband.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
So it's like, do you even love your husband? You
love Rudnick?

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Who cares about Kyle. He's at home meeting your lasagna,
watching fucking Nascar. You love Rudnick. So we cut to
a nasty crime scene. Okay, a female state trooper is
on the ground, like you know, underwear around her ankles,
which obviously is telegraphing the rape.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
And she was murdered.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
She's covered in blood and she'd been called because a
neighbor saw smoke coming out of the chimney. But the
owners are never there in the winter, so the neighbor
you know, called the cops and that this trooper showed
up and unfortunately Yates was there, or maybe both of them,
So the call to the police was an hour ago,
so they must be close.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
They also left a trail of blood.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Dawson is making sure Lindsey's okay, but she looks very shook,
and he's like, don't worry, we're gonna get him. So
they follow the blood trail and it leads to the
water like a lake, and we're all at this lake.
Now it's raining, it's dark, it looks cold as fuck,
like we're in bubble fuck New York. Like this is
not where anybody wants to be. Right now, they've got
someone in a parked boat that they've detected on the

(59:50):
infrared camera and they're like, it's Rudnick. We can see
him on the infrared, and Kevin Kaine's character is like,
I'm not risking my guys.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Everybody shoot at the boat. It's wild.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
CA's like stop, stop, like this man is my best friend.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I'm going to go talk to him, and he yells
we have history.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
So he approaches the boat and he tells Rudnick like
he's approaching the boat, going I want you to live,
I want you to walk out of here, and then
he pulls back the tarp and Rudnick is covered in blood. Shaking,
and then the camera kind of finds his leg and
it looks bent in a weird way. I couldn't really
see what was going on, but he's thanking creasy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
He's like, thank you, caresy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
So now we're back to New York one and Pat
Kiernan is telling us that Rudnick has been apprehended and
has suffered a lot of injuries and was rushed to
the hospital. Yates is still at large. They show a
map with this is hilarious. They show a map with
little red pins for all the sightings that people have
called in for Yates, and they're all over the country.
And then they just put a massive question mark over

(01:00:49):
the top of the United States and it's like, very
helpful graphic, very helpful. So they I've never seen anything
like that on a news report. They cut to them
at the hospital Yeates. It turns out out hobbled Rudnick,
which is another term I learned from misery, So two
misery references in this episode for me, Like, I didn't
know what hobbling was until Kathy Bates hobbled him in

(01:01:09):
that which is where you you know, put a piece
of wood in between the ankles and then you like
hammer you break their ankles, and apparently Yates broke his
knees as well and pierced his ear drum. I don't
know why that like detail was put in there. It
sounds terrible, but and then he just left him to
die in the boat. Benson doesn't give a fuck. She's like,
oh boohoo, like she could care about what happens to Rudnick.

(01:01:32):
He's apparently in and out of consciousness. But Kevin Kane
tells them that he indicated that the plan was to
cross the border on this like Saint Lawrence River or something.
Uh uh so now uh oh bad news. Dawson can't
find Lindsey. They split up and she went with Dodds. Meanwhile,
Rudnick is talking to Caresy now he's awake, and Rudnick saying,

(01:01:53):
it was never my intention to hurt anyone.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I just wanted to leave the country and live a life.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Of peace, and Careese is holding Rudnick's hand and he goes,
Yates only wanted one thing, revenge. And then he's like, well,
where were you headed on the river and he goes
Wellesley Island. Cariesy pulls his hand out of redneck's hand
so fastive make your head spin.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
He's like, get your hands off of me. We're not
friends anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
And then Benson finally gets Dodds on the line and
she's like, all right, we know where they're headed.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
We're headed to Wellesley Island or whatever. You guys come back.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Lindsay and Dodds are driving in the dark rain on
some you know, deserted country roads and he's like, all right,
let's head back and Lindsay's like, no way, dude, I'm
not doing that. And he's like, come on, like, we
gotta go back. That's what the boss said. I'm a
daddy's boy and I do what I'm told. And she goes, well,
I'll drop your ass at a rest stop because I'm
not going like her mission is to find yates, you know.

(01:02:44):
So then as they're arguing, they passed this little country
road that goes off of the main road and there's
a state trooper patrol car just stop there with the
lights on the door to the car open. But they're like,
there's not been any radio traffic that we've heard, so
this is sketchy. So they pull up to the car.
Dodds calls for backup. They approach the car, nobody's there.

(01:03:07):
Then there's a pickup truck in front of it, like
what the state trooper might have been pulling over. They
find the state trooper on the ground, shot through the head,
another body in you know, a trail of bodies behind Yates.
Lindsey notices, oh, his gun is gone, and just as
she's telling Dodds, shots ring out. Dodds gets hit. Lindsey
decides to pursue Yeates like a fucking idiot. Dodds's like

(01:03:28):
pistol or He's like stop, don't go, wait for backup.
And now she's just alone in the woods with a
serial killer, like I don't know why, Like you think
that you're just better than this guy and you're gonna
get him. He's quite good at what he does. She
falls in the snow, drops her fucking gun. It's very
terrifying because you're like, get the gun, and then she
finds it. She then she sees this house in the

(01:03:49):
woods with every single light on and she goes into
the house like gun drawn, and there she sees a
little girl hiding under a bed and she's like just
you stay here, and the little girl's like my dad,
and then she's like, just stay right here. When she
hears the gunshot, Lindsay goes outside, Yates almost runs her
over with the truck. She shoots at him in the truck,
but he gets away, and then she finds sadly the

(01:04:10):
little girl's dad dead on the ground outside, and there's
a note in his mouth and it says see you
back home, Aaron, and Lindsey looks devastated. Her name is
Aaron Lindsay just in case this is confusing, and that's
dick wolf baby off of her devastated face. But of
course we have to know. This is a fucking Chicago

(01:04:31):
ped crossover, which I actually remember watching back in the day,
because I remember being like on my TV like looking
up Spectrum like on demand, trying to find Chicago p
D because I don't really watch it and I just
really wanted to see what had happened to this motherfucker.
But I actually remember watching it, but I don't remember
much of the episode. So the episode, if you want
to go back and watch it, is called the Song

(01:04:52):
of Gregory Yates, and basically, Yates heads back to Chicago
to find his sister. Okay, he finds her apartment and
he kills all of her roommates to our nurses, which
is a clear reference to Ted Bundy, because Ted Bundy
did kill a bunch of nurses at one point. And
he eventually finds his sister a kidnaps her. At one point,
he pays a homeless woman to deliver a box to

(01:05:15):
the station which has a hand of one of the
victims in it, which has another note in hold in
like the hand of the victim, which is very like seven.
It's very you know, serial killers taunting the police stuff.
He breaks into Lindsay's apartment with his kidnapped sister in tow.
Then he goes and finds his bio. He goes and

(01:05:35):
finds his biological dad, attacks him, kidnaps him, lures Lindsay
to where he is by threatening to kill his own dad.
When she arrives, Yates has his father in a chair
perched over the edge of a building, I guess, with
a noose around his neck.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
And the guy like he honestly just.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
Keeps topping himself like the noose like this, listen like
the he's like he's like a jigsaw over here with
these different ideas. He ends up uh. He confesses all
his crimes to Aaron. He starts taunting her more about
Nadia than he just kills his dad by pushing him
over the edge and hanging him, and then he tries
to go after Lindsay with an ice pick, so he's
kind of doing like suicide by cop a little bit,

(01:06:13):
like he's he's attacking Lindsay because he wants her to
kill him, and he taunts her like you're gonna be
the one to tell my story. You're gonna kill me,
and eventually she does. She kills him and shoots him
in self defense. And that's the end of Gregory Yates
in our Lives. So sorry, Rollins, you lost a friend.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
But that is that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
And I know that you're gonna give us all the
juice on the true crime because and I'm excited because
I don't really know that much, all.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Right, So I mean it's like frame by frame, I
would say, it is, yeah, so exact, and like I
can't even believe it, but this, and like you said,
it was a famous mini series. People talk about this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
I was in New York when it was happening, so
it was on the news everywhere, Like I remembering, like, fuck,
there's these two guys on the loose, Like I didn't
think they were gonna come to New York City. I
wasn't like worried really, but I was like, fuck, well
because I forgot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
But I was talking to someone and I was like
talking about the the jail break one that I was
watching on Netflix or Hulu or whatever, about the woman
falling in love and driving off and stuff. And someone
was like, oh, escape from Danamoora. And I was like no,
and they're like, yeah, it is, and I'm like, no,
it's not. Stuff I hate. I hate when people argue
with me about things I know more than them. On

(01:07:38):
it it's like, actually, it's fine. Makes me feel good. Anyways,
the Clinton Correctional Facility escape, So i'll set the scene
June sixth, twenty fifteen. Yeah, and this episode aired like
not even a year later, and the New York State
Police or the lead agency, and this massive manhunt for
two escaped prisoners. Fifteen hundred law enforcement officers were used

(01:08:01):
from twelve different state, local, and federal agencies, and it
became the largest search in New York state history. And
so Clinton Correctional Facility is in Dana Mora, which is
a rural and very forested area and it's just south
of the Canadian border, which is a crazy place for
a prison, I would say on a border. But I

(01:08:24):
think Canada would bring back the criminals, like I don't
know why, like we got to get to Canada, like
Canada would and be like, yeah, we're not helping you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
I was thinking that same thing when I was like,
why are all these serial killers and people always trying
to get to Canada? They're going to give you back,
Like we're in a good spot with Canada, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Like yeah, my big thing is like get a boat
and go to an island, but I guess that's a
big journey, but like go to international waters. Well, you
know what's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
I just caught up on the whole new season of SVU,
and I don't know if you've heard about the season.
The fall finale is Careese gets kind of involved in
a hold up in a bodega and the guy are
like where can we go? And Kreese's telling them all
the places they can go that don't have extradition. So
like these guys were thinking, they were like where can
we go where we won't get step back? And he's

(01:09:11):
like he's telling them the name of like the Solomon Islands,
like places we've never even fucking heard of that are
places that won't extradite to the US.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
So so wild. It's like baby Australia's are being born everywhere. Yeah,
towns of criminals. So the guy's names are Richard Matt
and David Sweat.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
But oh my god, yes, what I just remember the
name David Sweat.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
I remember the name David Sweat. It sounds like a
pop star for in the Substance Universe. Yeah. Yeah. And
then Richard Matt is confusing because Matt is a first name,
so it's but whatever, Matt and Sweat they are both
serving time for murder. So Matt was serving twenty five
years to life because he kidnapped and beat a man
to death in nineteen ninety seven. This was his former employer,

(01:09:59):
a seventy six year old man, and Matt fucking tortured
him and chopped up his body with a hack saw.
So not good. And then Sweat was serving life after
being convicted of killing a broom. I wonder if it
was Boom, but Broome County Sheriff's deputy in two thousand
and two, when he was twenty three years old, and
it does confuse me, like life and no chancefer pearol

(01:10:21):
with chance of Pearl, Like I wonder why Matt got
twenty five to life and this guy just has life.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
I literally just look this up for the other episode
that we're about to record. Capital murder is like first
degree murder, but you capital murder includes killing multiple people, killing,
law enforcement killing, and with capital murder, there's no chancefer pearl.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Okay, great, yeah, we got that. We got that answered quick.
And obviously, you know, him murdering the deputy made me
think of the Bob Marley song that I don't understand
never will. Okay, you know you're still serving life, babe.
So but yeah, they also don't look like friends, like

(01:11:06):
if you see their photos, they look very different. And
so I'm I'm so curious about their relationship. And there
is a whole report. So it's very the Fox and
the Hound according to a twenty sixteen report. And I'm
gonna talk about this report a lot and then I'll
i'll let you know where to find it. But it
was like a giant report that had to be made

(01:11:28):
because they fuck up so much. I just I'll get
into it because I also just like there's something about
a prison escape that we love or I love yeah
as as a person. And they're bad people, but and
you know it's risky they you know, what they could
do to others out and about, but there's always like

(01:11:50):
something you cheer for where you're like, get out of there. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Have you ever seen escape from Alcatraz? Like there's like
so many like just the clever like ways that they
because they've got nothing but time to think about.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
How to get out, you know. Yeah, it's kind of
like when you're on Survivor that all they do is
talk about the foods they want to eat yea when
they leave. So they are very different. And this report
was used in all my sources. They used it as
a source, but this is for ABC News that Sweat
was very very self sufficient in always and then Matt

(01:12:24):
was sociable and gregarious and their friendship blossom between Matt
and Sweat in about twenty ten when they're housing overlapped
the prison area on the Honor Block and like in
the episode, it's a special section for well behaved inmates
that let prisoners remain out of their cells for most
of the day and have special jobs like assisting plumbers

(01:12:46):
and electricians. And this is from a former inmate as
a source for ABC News. But it's very odds, you
know what I mean. Like yeah, and the fact that
there's pods and they're hanging out in this little community.
It's like I remember watching Oz being like, well this
isn't real and it is okay. So and then they

(01:13:08):
had differences in age and personality, but they had one
shared interest art. Yeah, they were painters. They were painters.
Matt was like an incredible painter. Incredible Matt was the painter,
and Sweat was very inspired and also began painting. So so, yeah,

(01:13:29):
they loved art. And I saw one of the paintings
and it's two dogs, a Boston Terrier and a Pomeranian
and they're so fucking cute. I could see myself buying
these paintings. But I'm gonna be buying a murderer's art,
like I know it. And then yes, so Sweat was
very inspired and he took up painting and drawing and
developed his art skills. And Sweat had a beautiful painting.

(01:13:53):
It was a house with trees, the sky and clouds
are a great color. There's a little bridge, the water
like inter of art. They really were crushing it. And
these guys vibed and they were able to use the
paintings and drawings as prison currency with the prison staff
and they would give really really cheap prices. So obviously
they can like use people later for these paintings. And

(01:14:14):
then the Simpson this also, well, it reminds me because
it's like, yeah, some people only do nice things so
they can like use you later, and that's definitely true
in prison, and it just reminds me of fat Tony
in the Mob in the Simpsons and uh the Pretzel episode.
If anyone wants a fun time, a fun time of
don't don't take, don't take, uh, don't take things from

(01:14:36):
you know, the mob or prisoners, they're gonna they're gonna
want something. And so it's so but twenty eleven, Matt's
kicked out of the block and Sweat would send him
gifts of tobacco, rolling papers, food, and that really solidified
their friendship in a real way. And uh so now
it's twenty fifteen, Matt's back on Honor Block and him

(01:15:00):
and Sweat are housed in adjacent cells and they use
power tools to cut through concrete walls steel piping that
gave them access to underground tunnels. They then followed the
tunnels under the exterior walls of the prison and to
the street outside. And of course that had help. Like
I said, they have their own little Bronwyn. It's a
prison worker, Joyce Mitchell. And Joyce Mitchell was seduced by Sweat.

(01:15:27):
And she was also the and guess what her job was.
She was the prison tailor. What a twist. They have
a tailor. They had a whole tailor shop. And there's
so much about the tailor's shop. I can't wait to
like fully get into everything. But she loved Sweat. There's
all these letters she secretly sent to him that were recovered,
and there's proof that she had sex with him in

(01:15:47):
the tailor shop. This is a known thing of you know,
prisoners grooming prison staff. Like I said, they're not just
painting you paintings for fun, Like these are criminals. And
it's and there's a name. There's a hip name for
it called downing the Duck and it's to get special duck.
Yeah cool, right, Yeah, Like I wonder, I know, but

(01:16:10):
I wonder if we if we like walked into prison
trying to use it if we'd be like, you know,
mister Burns pretending to be young, like like, you can't
just use downing the duck. I think I think they
would know that were you know, it's not for us
because of you know, the attention she got, she liked it,
and the fucking she would give them food in the shop,
She would make calls to Matt's daughter for him, and

(01:16:32):
smuggled in personal items, not just escape materials. And she
was married to another person who worked at the prison
this whole time. He was an industrial training supervisor. So
her husband is there at the prison and she's bringing
Matt cookies, cakes, prepared meals, venison, biscuits. I mean, if

(01:16:52):
my spouse is bringing someone venison, like I have questions. Yeah,
And then another inmate said to ABC News at one time,
Mitchell gave Sweat a big Mac from McDonald's. I can't
even believe how good that tasted on the inside, Like,
I can't believe what having a loose big mac from
the outside it feels like when you're in your serving life,

(01:17:16):
Like I totally. Yeah. She also did have two children,
so she really put out a lot on the line,
and she was having sex with Matt providing Sweat with
nudes and then Matt led Joyce into believing they were
in love, but still like she's double timing both of
them anyways, Like they're both using her. But she's just
like a giant whore within the prison system too. And

(01:17:38):
she told NBC News, I enjoyed the attention, the feeling
both of them gave me, and the thought of a
different life like life in prison. It's just it's it's wild.
So ABC News reports that she agreed to flee with
Sweat and Matt and help them get guns, ammunition, camping
gear and a compass, hack, saw blades, chisels and other tools,
and she snuck them in and frozen hamburger meat, which

(01:18:01):
a guard later gave to the inmates, like like, how
do they hold frozen meat? Do they have to cook
it right away? Like on a window?

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Like why are we giving a frozen Yeah, but they
have a sense it's a pre k it's a pre
cooked item.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
What is frozen meat? Yeah? And they use the tools,
obviously to cut through the back of their cells, then
a brick wall into a steam pipe. They slithered through
and emerged outside the walls through a manhole, so like
very svo.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
But they must have had to do the same thing
of like knowing when the steam pipe was going to
be off or on, because it's like if you get
caught in a steam pipe, like you're gonna you'll burn
up like that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Yeah, now that like I had that incident with my
radiator where like the nozzle went off and the steam
was just pushing through it hurt. It was so hot
and like intense, Like I did keep thinking about burning, yeah,
and one of the steam pipes. That was going through
my mind a lot. And then they left behind clothing
in their beds, so it look like they were there

(01:19:01):
so very tgif very teen sneaking out situation. And I
saw the photos of the clothing, like the dummies they
made in the bed and it did you know, it's
passable enough and they are smart. So at eleven PM
there's night checks and then they put their dummies. But
then there's like the whole point of the searches is

(01:19:22):
you have to see skin, and none of the people
saw skin, but they're like, oh, they're in their beds.
So the casual searches of the episode are the casual
searches of this case and not today. I can't believe
we're bringing up Ferris Bueller again, but yes, very Ferris
Bueller leaving your dummies after the night Watch and to

(01:19:43):
plan for the.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Escape from Alcatraz as well. In escape from Alcatraz, he
makes a full plaster mold of his head and paints
it and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Yeah wow, and like okay, like you said, they have
to like study all this, So Sweat climbed out of
his cell over eighty five times to like dig the things,
do the things that go through it all, and that
in all of this time, that means there was four
hundred required checks and no one was ever able to
catch him. Wrote like Bill, sawing through the prison walls.

(01:20:15):
He eighty five times. And so then there's notes. So
they left little notes. So one of them it said
have a nice day, exclamation point, and then it had
a racist caricature of an Asian man. So whatever you're thinking,
that's what it looked like. And Sweat said that the
drawing was given to him by another inmate a few
days before, but he just wrote have a nice day.

(01:20:36):
And then Matt left some notes too. One he wrote,
you left me to no choice but to grow old
and die in here. I had to do something six
five fifteen, never changed, stay the same, have a good summer,
like so funny to date it hags And also a
note on his painting of Tony Soprano that he did

(01:20:57):
and on it he wrote time to Go Kid, six
five fifteen. The whole escape took an hour, but the
plan did get drailed. So you're like, okay, Like, so
you're just gonna run in the wood again the fugitive
I brought it up, like yeah, so it's like you're
just gonna run in the woods, Like it doesn't seem
worth it. Like in my head, I'm like, at least
you're here on Honor Block, Like is it worth trying

(01:21:18):
to escape in the woods? Like that doesn't make sense
to me, But it is because Joyce Mitchell was supposed
to meet them with a getaway car. If you don't
think that's Taylor Swift coated, I don't know what to
tell you. But she didn't show up. She had cold
feet and she decided not to. Obviously it's a sliding
door moment, like what could have happened. But the plan

(01:21:39):
was to drive to Mexico, which also seems so hard.
Get a boat, go to an island.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
See want tona Ho. That's the whole point of shosh
anng retemption. They want to go to Zeewat Naho in Mexico.
Oh yeah, and so, but Joyce was safe.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
So she actually checked herself into a hospital with a
case of the nerves and claiming that she had chest pain.
And this for sure saved her life. Like they would
have killed her eventually, you know what I mean. Yeah, Okay,
so they escape, they are gone for twenty two days.
That is humiliating. You have fifteen hundred officers and it

(01:22:15):
took you that long. I just think that's so embarrassing.
Like ABC News quoted someone that said it's a portrait
of a broken prison system, and officials said both men
took advantage of it to stage this escape. And it's like, no,
you're bad at your jobs, Like this isn't a systemic
it like there's issues within the prison system and it's
mostly how we treat prisoners and like that it's private visites,

(01:22:38):
Like I like, this isn't part of a broken prison.
You guys weren't doing your searches and you let someone
take let out of their cell eighty five times, like
it is wild to me that they think it's like
systemic when it's like, no, your your prison sucks. You
would think like once.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
A week there'd be like a full sweep of your
cell to make sure no holes or whatever are being.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Oh my god, it's gonna get better and better. I
can't wait. Okay. So, and I think that's why we
cheer on prison breaks. It's because it is embarrassing to
the like all to the system. Okay, but you know
it is a whole community is scared. They're in their homes.
They're like uh oh, and people are forced out of
their homes so searches can happen. Also told not to
leave their house. Also, like what if they're hiding in

(01:23:22):
your home? It is all very very cleick. Yeah. It
costs so the overtime for the cops alone New York State,
it costs twenty three million dollars. WHOA. And it's like
it's your own fucking failures. So all the failures. So
they failed to search bags of employees brought into the facility,

(01:23:43):
they skipped prisoner accounts, they skipped cell searches, and even
when they did search they were hasty. So Matt's cell
was searched March twenty first, twenty fifteen, and they failed
to detect an eighteen and a half inch hole in
the rear wall of the cell. That and the the
whole cell is only forty eight square feet. Oh my god.

(01:24:04):
So there was like a hole during the search and
no one ever saw it, And supervisors also knew about
Mitchell's weird relationship with them, and no action was ever taken.
Like colleagues and supervisors called out Mitchell for her chumminess
at the start of twenty twelve, like a lot of
people had to retire. So even after all of this,
seven other prison employees resigned or retired because they fucking

(01:24:25):
knew shit was going down and didn't stop it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
So she cocked her husband pretty bad, huh, Like at work,
Come on, man, that's humiliating for him.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
Crazier it gets easier. I'm like' so what I mean?
I mean, obviously these people are murderers, but it's hard
not to like, like, I mean, it is an easy
day in the office for us personally, like in terms
of cases like this is right nice, you know, yeah,
so you know, two and a half weeks go by
June twenty six, police get reports of shots fire near

(01:24:55):
Route thirty and a driver of an RVs had bullet
holes inside of his camper. So then there's a sighting
of Richard Matt, crazy name. So there's a sighting of
Richard Matt in the woods and US Customs tactical team
confront him and there's a shootout and Matt is killed sadly,
so there is there is death. He was surrounded by

(01:25:15):
police near Elephant's Head, about fifty miles from the prison,
and the day they found him was because okay, so
you know, they get they get people calling in, they
know he's around. But he had a gun, and he
was in a normal position and he could have caught
but he coughed. He coughed. Oh no, that's what gave
up his position. He coughed, and there are tons of

(01:25:37):
border people. Matt was armed with a twenty gage shotgun,
laying in the woods, aiming at the agent's post. Cough.
They're like, put down your weapons, put your hands up.
He did not comply, so he was shot and killed.
But from that was set up the perimeter to find
his friend's Sweat. So once Sweat's friend was dead, like
Sweat would only travel at night avoid locals, and he

(01:25:59):
shaved his face, but he did make a mistake. He
was becoming anxious, so he decided to move in the
daylight and then was spotted. So, I mean, who knows
if you just waited for nighttime what could have happened.
But the cop I mean fifteen hundred cops were in
the area and the border Canada US teams too, So
it's I can't imagine this. They're just like in wilderness
the whole time. Yeah, well there's towns. I think it's rural,

(01:26:22):
you know, but like, yeah, but that's why you can't
be in there in the day because I'm assuming small
town where people know of each other, like yeah, even
my god. Yeah. So two days after Matt finally, June
twenty eighth, a sergeant with the State Police observes a
dude walking in a field close to the Canadian border,
which ended up being David Sweat. He was shot in

(01:26:44):
the torso and brought into custody. He was only a
mile and a half from the Canadian border. Oh, he
was close. He was. He was not armed when found
and he did try to run though, and that's why
he got shot. Joyce aka Bronwin aka the prison Hoe.
She was convicted for providing material support to the prisoners.

(01:27:05):
She was fifty three years old and obviously like she
was manipulated by these people, Like you know, she's not.
I mean, I'm making fun of her, but I'm sure
she's a victim of something. But she fucked up. Sorry,
she pled guilty. She pled guilty for promoting prison contraband
in the first degree and then criminal facilitation in the
fourth degree. She was sentenced to two and a half

(01:27:28):
to eight years in September twenty fifteen, an order to
pay also eighty thousand dollars in restitution for damages incurred
during the escape. She did tell the judge if she
could take it all back, she would, so that's staby.
She news she does regret it. She said it was
the biggest mistake she's ever made. She was denied parole
in February twenty seventeen because the board said she was

(01:27:48):
emotionally unstable and easily manipulated. Yikes. Mitchell was released from
prison in February twenty twenty Wow write in time for
COVID crazy after serving five years at Bedford Hill's correctional
facility in Westchester County. New this is close to where
I grew up.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
That's only like twenty five minutes from where I grew
up twenty or thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
Yeah, we have a lot of prisons, I guess in
the tri state situation. She was also then supervised in
Franklin County until June twenty twenty two. She also had
to give up her teaching certificate. Maybe she was a
tailor teacher, but the plea deal, she needs to know,
not teach anyone anything. She went back to her house

(01:28:32):
that she shared with her husband, and Lyle Mitchell visited
his wife every other weekend. Throughout her sentence.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Oh maybe he like knew that she was just such
a suggestible person and like felt bad for her, like
because she got manipulated because she just doesn't have any.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
I don't know. Oh Man anyway, So now Sweat almost
right away after being captured, started bragging to the cops.
He's like, this was all my idea. But his friend
is dead, so we don't actually know anything, Like his
friend in cohort is dead, and so this gossip he
just started chatting. So a lot of what comes after

(01:29:13):
this is like what he's told us, which I don't
know if it's true or not. But because he was
already serving life in prison. Now he's serving life at
the Five Points Correctional Facility, and you know Max Security
in Romulus, New York, which is two hundred and eighty
miles south of Clinton. And it's like you fool. Now
he's in solitary confinement twenty three hours a day. Like

(01:29:36):
you were getting big Max, you were getting nudes. You
were walking around painting, Like what a fucking idiot? Like yeah,
even with the car. But I guess freedom, I mean
I can't. I can't speak for his killers. A spokesperson
for New York State Department of Correction set in a
report to the intelligence sir, which is like a New
York magazine part. The department has put in place a

(01:29:58):
number of reforms that Clinton, including installing new cameras, security gates,
retraining and disciplining staff to make sure this does not
happen again. The upgrades to the prison and like to
repair the damage cost five hundred and seventy three thousand dollars.
But like I said, this report, I mean, this place
was wild. I don't know what's going down in the
tailor shop, like I said, But another worker Denise Prow

(01:30:20):
was arrested in twenty seventeen for an unlawful romantic relationship
that included kissing and fondling on at least three occasions.
So I think, like the tailor shop is just like
cool women and there's freedom and they're just fucking in there.
She this woman was making deposits and inmates prison accounts.
She paid off his debts for him, and she was

(01:30:41):
found out. She pled guilty to twenty five misdemeanor counts,
including promoting prison contraband, sexual abuse, and official misconduct. So
that you can watch this movie or mini series if
you want. And so Patricia Kett won the Golden Globe
SAG and Critics Choice, Stiller won the Director's guilda too,

(01:31:01):
And it was nominated for seven Emmys. And it's Benisio
del Toro and Paul Dano played the other guy, which
makes sense. Once you see the photos go on her
instell we'll put it. They'll be photos of them and
like and sweat is Vanicio? Yeah, Okay, No, I always
actually fuck it up. They look opposite. It looks it's

(01:31:21):
truly the Fox and the Hound. It's like, how were
they friends? Obviously art brought them together. But and then
because each time I was like, wait, which one, which
one's which?

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
Oh yeah, it's the opposite. Okay, it's the opposite, And
is Matt okay?

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
Yeah, yes, It's really actually hard for me to keep
them straight because I was just like, oh, yeah, so
she was fucking that guy interesting, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
But also because you were like saying that, you were
saying that like Sweat was like the one that's like
more competent and it's gregarious, and that to me is
like a Benicio rather than a Paul.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
Dano, you know. Or is that what Matt was? Yeah, yeah,
that's what I mean. It's like it really like I
had to keep checking photos and making sure which ones
witch in my head and mixing them up throughout this
then direity of this whole thing, like I cannot keep
it straight. It's a Mandela effect in true action, Like
I am forgetting their faces and names as I've gone,

(01:32:14):
so you can watch more. Never even heard of this show,
I can't. I don't know where I've been. And so
oh okay, So the other inmate from the tailor's shop,
prel actually was hired as an assistant to actress Patricia Arquette,
who played Joyce in the show whow So she got fired?
You know, she got charged, but she got a job

(01:32:36):
in Hollywood. Also, also the report I keep mentioning is
from the State of New York Office of the Inspector General.
And it's one hundred and fifty four pages. It will
be linked in our sources if you want to get
in there. Also the New York magazine sorts The Intelligencer
had so many photos and I really liked it, like

(01:32:56):
of the tailor shop and just all the evidence and
the whole and everything. And obviously we've mentioned Shashank a bunch.
And if you're thinking that wasn't talked about and on
the inside, you are wrong. They talked about it. They
read the novella and they used it as a source,
like like he learned how not to fuck with certain
pipes that are filled with shit. Like Sweat is quoted

(01:33:18):
in New York Magazine also saying Shawshank ain't got shit
on me. But it's like, well you got caught or dead.
I forgot, but you know they actually made Yeah, Shaw
Shank is different. And because the fun doesn't end with
the story, just more facts. Is Sweat was like, oh
my god, I was in the best shape of my life.
I lost thirty pounds climbing through the tunnels and hacksong

(01:33:40):
through pipes. So it's like the coolest workout ever. I
think is trying to escape from prison like he was,
just like I was feeling myself. So during all this
hack song. This is actually interesting because of their friendship
and how quickly it all dissolved. But through the hack
song and the planning and the process he did I
end up opening the manhole and putting his head out

(01:34:03):
into freedom. But he did make a promise to Matt
and he wanted to stick to his words, so he
went back for his friend wow Or because he thought
he was gonna have the car with Joyce, but he
said he did. But again, he could be long like
we don't know, damn, damn, Amora. That is nuts. Yeah,

(01:34:24):
I remember when it was on the news.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
I remember I cannot believe how long they've been gone,
for like three weeks. Like I just don't get how
they were, like I guess, yeah, like sneaking into cabins
and shit, I just don't get how they were like surviving, like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
They're eating they took stuff with them, so like they
had I didn't put this in me. They took a
bunch of pepperoni sticks, they had a bunch of granola bars,
and there was like one other snack that they they
had with back piling. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
Yeah, so they had food with them, and yeah, that's
such a good question. I really wonder what they were
saying to each other when they came out and she
wasn't there, Like your.

Speaker 2 (01:35:07):
Little girlfriend didn't pick us up? Like fuck, I know,
such a different Yeah, I so many sliding door moments,
so interesting, but yeah, you fucked it up. Now you're
in solitary, Like I don't I mean, I hope I'd
never have to be in prison, so I don't know.
It must suck. But this prison seemed pretty good. Yeah, like,

(01:35:30):
well good for an inmate, because they that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah,
like you're getting big max, Like this woman is having
sex with you. The guards aren't even putting you through
metal detectors. I don't you. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
I saw some video that popped up on my Twitter
before I quit Twitter that was like literally a female
corrections officer fucking up uh inmate. Like it's like just
like a fully pornographic video of them having sex and
his sound mate is taking the video and she's not
telling him to stop. But they're in like a room
that has bunk beds. They have tons of stuff. I

(01:36:06):
think maybe they might be in the UK. I don't
know if jails are different, but like they have a
kettle they have like it looks like they're in a
dorm room like they're and they've got so much stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
I think. I think if you're serving that long, like
with commissary, and then you have jobs and yourn money,
you can get stuff you can have. Yeah, yeah, because
I've seen that before, and not just in Oz, like
because there's TikTok prison prison videos that's bustin' and they'll

(01:36:36):
make like recipes and then at the end they'll taste
sim be like that's bustin' or not bustin', and how bustin'
it is. But it's like ramen sandwiches and how they
make sauces and like, oh, and you know I was
telling you about in Sacramento when I was performing and
there was like someone that served prison time and he
made money making sweet and sour sauce that he would sell. Yes,
I remember so I think at a certain point, when

(01:36:58):
you're in there and you know you are living a life,
you get to have cup of noodles.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
But yeah, I mean like I feel like sweat or wait,
I'm sorry, which one got killed Mat exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
It's like crazy to kid. Yeah, and I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (01:37:15):
Matt was probably like, yeah, I'm not putting my hands up,
like I don't want to go back, just like kill me,
you know, right, like you knew he wasn't gonna get away.
But that's kind of I mean, that's kind of like
what Yates did, I guess in the end of that
Chicago Pet episode. Anyway, We've got a great guest, so
don't go anywhere. Our guest this week is an actor

(01:37:44):
and podcaster. She most recently starred in the mini series
Fleischmann Is in Trouble. She can be seen on The
Deuce the Marvelous Missus Masel. But let's be honest, you
know her best as one of the most infuriating characters
in SVU history, prison Groupie Bronwyn Wilkins Nay Freed. Please
enjoy our chat with Sarah Storm. Hello, I feel like

(01:38:08):
we've been corresponding.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
Yeah, we've been corresponding with did I write you when
you announced your show?

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
Well right away to you on the artist formerly known
as Twitter a lot about us, how we were going
to have you one day and we.

Speaker 2 (01:38:23):
Just had for the right moment. Yeah, the fork in
the road and is we don't want to watch those episodes.
They're horrifying, So like the William Bullis episodes are the
most scary. And so it was like, we'll take our time.
And then because this is kind of a two parter,
we had to get you know, yeah, like what did
we get Rednick or Yeah, we got ra first, we

(01:38:44):
got Dallas, then we had to get Jefferson Mays, and
then we got you for Niche. Man, it's what works out,
you know. It's like there's a lot of amazings.

Speaker 3 (01:38:51):
People don't know how the sausage is made. But you know,
I'm like, I'm honored. I'm honored to be considered in
their company.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
Are you kidding? Yeah, it's I mean, you must get
stopped on the streets of New York, Like there's no
way you just go through life with oh mention, I
just can't imagine. It depends.

Speaker 3 (01:39:10):
It depends on the glasses I'm wearing and I'm realizing
these glasses are a little bit like those glasses where
it depends on like sort of what I look like
and what it can usually tell when things are airing,
because then people are like, hey, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
This is this is so silly.

Speaker 3 (01:39:24):
But like I think when I started to have like
a reasonable understanding of what was possible for me as
an actor, I was like, I would kind of like
to be that person you can sort of you can't
quite place. It's like inscrutable. Did you go to high
school with them? Yeah, and that is kind of where
things have landed. So yeah, I remember asking Selene Robinson
at some point on set, like as I was basically
profusely thanking them and then as coolly a manner as

(01:39:46):
I possibly could as a deeply unchilled person, and they
were looking for somebody who was kind of like unhinged
enough to do this, and somebody blessed them brought my
name up and was like, you know, this is kind
of Bronwin style.

Speaker 1 (01:39:59):
Yeah, we've already had She's already let one major guy out.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
Let's let this. I mean there are types that you've
got hired again at the person, I mean, at a
person it's like yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
I'm like, man, she got crafty after that after that
first instance.

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
Well, we were on winding it out in the episode too.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
I was like, so when she's in court looking at Rudnick,
it's like June and then this is all going on
in February. So in seven months, she's relocated to Upstate,
got a job at this prison, married some guy, and
then and then is fully orchestrating a month's long escape
like it's very you know, Bronwyn she knows how to

(01:40:38):
get it done.

Speaker 3 (01:40:39):
She truly does. I you know, she she uses her
powers for evil? What can I say?

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
Do you well? So the real life case this escape
for from Dana Mora, she the character like who your
character is based on, did stay with her husband? And
I am wondering, do you think Bronwin's husband stayed with her?
Or was this the final? Was this like a gat
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
I think Kyle Kyle? I think Kyle I rewatched this morning?
Can you tell I think Kyle Ky? I feel like
she probably picked him very specifically, I think Kyle probably stayed.
How interested is Bronwyn from prison?

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
Who knows? But like I think he's probably still there
you know what else not to go too fast, but
because now I'm thinking about like Benson being like, you're
lucky he left you in that trunk, you fucking idiot.
But like you and Benson have a fun relationship, you know.
I love when you're like she has some energy towards me,
like I don't want this, Like how was working with

(01:41:37):
Marishka and like your guy's fun energy a dream.

Speaker 3 (01:41:42):
She she's just she's so kind and so thoughtful. And
this goes back to like my first episode. But I remember,
like my first episode of SVU was my first episode
of TV period wow, And so I had like read
the script like twenty times, applied everything I had ever
studied in school. And I remember her coming in to
check if she if I needed her for my eyeline

(01:42:05):
for they were going to get some like reaction or something.
And like I just every time I encounter hurt, it's
like a masterclass in how to lead that kind of environment.
She's fun, she's funny. At one point, I feel like
this was when like planking was really big when we
were shooting Nationwide Manhood. I'm like, she was planking. I tried,
I'm not athletic, it was she she's a phenomenal colleague

(01:42:28):
and she really I think leads like the spirit of
her leadership is seen and felt.

Speaker 1 (01:42:33):
Yeah, so well put Yeah we hear that from a
lot of people. She's not as as not as beautiful
as very good. Ye well, and then I have to
ask about the energy with you know, we we do
think Pablo Schreiber is a hot guy and talented, but

(01:42:53):
truly well what we'd so some for We went on
tour for Halloween and amazing a West Coast and we
asked people to dress up in the audience and we
had a bron win in San Diego, so bat wives listening,
but I took her, uh the pin oh amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
She was wearing pin. She had like a red wing.
Yeah we got a card again on like she was
fully like she was bringing the bron one. I'm I'm
like genuinely honored. Yeah, we'll get you the photo. It
was really it was a thrill. But how like is
he in charactered as you try to be weird or

(01:43:31):
is the extra nice on set to like counteract his creepiness,
Like yeah, what is his what's that like? Super super thoughtful?

Speaker 3 (01:43:38):
And I feel like the con I think if I
hadn't met him a couple times before. Like I was
thinking a lot about this going in and just reflecting
on all of this. I would have been super terrified
if I had like watched the episodes available to watch
and I had not ever encountered Pablo in like the
wilds of theater. He had done the twenty four hour
plays a few times, which I've been involved in since

(01:43:59):
like twenty twenty two thousand and one, sorry numbers since
two thousand and one, and so I have this distinct
memory of like the year that my eldest nephew was born,
I think was the same year that maybe his eldest
kid was born. So I have this memory of like
us trading baby pictures via phone, like early days of
all of this, and so like that's my core memory

(01:44:22):
of Pamlo Schreiber, which gave me a nice base. I
was like, he is so good at his job. He
is absolutely terrifying. I'm nervous to walk in. And then
like I walked into hair and makeup and he teased
me like something related to the twenty four hour place,
and I was like, okay, So like he is able
to occupy that space those courtroom scenes in Psychotherapists, Like

(01:44:43):
that day was like thirteen hours and he and Marishka
every take would just go to go as far and
farther than they needed to go to get the and
then took such great care of each other between takes,
and like they shot some reaction of me, and I realized,
this isn't about nationwide man hunt, but it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:45:00):
It's okay, wait, we're talking about your whole arc.

Speaker 3 (01:45:03):
Don't worry, Okay, thank you, and he like they needed
some reaction shots of me in the jury box and
like an eighty could have done it somebody. There are
several options, and this had at that point, I think,
been like a thirteen some on hour day. And Pablo
stayed and hung out behind the camera and like fed
me the stuff that I needed, and I was like,
dang again, like something about the way that ship is

(01:45:26):
run over at SVU, Like I think they bring in
people who have that sort of ethos and then I
feel like people lead into that ethos. Like that was
a real act of generosity. And again my first time
ever on TV, I was so excited. I was so nervous,
and like, here is my colleague treating me like a
colleague and like going the extra mile to make sure
that I can do my like first ever job.

Speaker 2 (01:45:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
Wow, he's he's a cool. He's a I haven't seen
him in a long time. He is a cool, good guy.
And at one point, and I'll try and find this
photo and send it to you, we were doing the
twenty four hour plays several years later, and I think
somebody had brought in cupcakes and I think it was
for Daniel's birthday and he and I like both like
peeped the cupcakes and were like troll the fans and like.

Speaker 2 (01:46:16):
And took a fun photo.

Speaker 1 (01:46:17):
Oh yes, we would love to see that picture. I
would be so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:46:22):
No, he really is the number one villain, I would say, legit,
And he's so good. He's terrifying. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
On a show that literally has a new rapist or
murderer every week, he is like the standout because he
goes after you know, our beloved main character of course,
but he's also burning off the fingertips.

Speaker 2 (01:46:40):
I mean, like that's your intro ya.

Speaker 3 (01:46:43):
Right, and and all that stuff in psychotherapist right, Like
I learned while we were shooting from another one of
the main characters, like the main cast that like this,
they get research packets or they were.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
At that time.

Speaker 3 (01:46:55):
And this is a thing that that rapists often due
to they're victims when there's a court room involved, Like
I will I'm a survivor of sexual assault, but I
have never I was never in a courtroom I was.
I could not imagine being put in that position. So
that is some odious, nefarious shit to be putting some
many through who has been brave enough to try to

(01:47:17):
get themselves some justice. And I think the fact that
they like brought that piece in like it's horrifying. But
also I never knew that was a thing. I think
a lot of people probably didn't know that that was
a thing, and now we do.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
Yeah, will you tell us about Dallas Roberts And why
am I forgetting rednecks real? Jefferson? Yeah, so I feel
like the other prisoner too if I go, oh, yeah,
he was great.

Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
Oh sorry, Robin that's his character name, that's Robin de
Hayes Seuss. That is Robin de hayes Sus, breakout star
of Tick Tick Boom.

Speaker 2 (01:47:55):
Did you watch Tick Tick?

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:47:56):
I haven't gotten to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
I have, I have a screener of it, and I
never got a chance to watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
I came out of I came out.

Speaker 3 (01:48:04):
Of Wicked, and I don't know why this is my
reaction to coming out of Wicked, Like I came out
of Wicked, and I'm like, you know, I think I
maybe want to rewatch Tik Tik boom. I think it's
something about like seeing theater people do great things on film.

Speaker 2 (01:48:16):
It's it's a terrific adaptation.

Speaker 3 (01:48:18):
I could I could turn this into a Robin de
Haesu's fan podcast. Like he was reading can I like
he was reading Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic. I think when
we were shooting that, and I just remember talking to
him a little bit because we've, like, you know, just
this New York you see people all the time, like
we had had. We were having a little conversation I

(01:48:39):
think about the creativity and the business and whatever, and
he's like, no, like go read this. He's just everybody's
super generous. Jefferson Mays is a theater god. I was
super intimidated to be in his presence and I was like,
to your job, Sarah, please don't suck today.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
It's like, oh, we were so excited to talk to him.
He was sipping a tiny little white wine on the
interview with us, like just so like amazing, I love him.

Speaker 2 (01:49:04):
Ye, I mean Dallas Robert's also a powerhouse.

Speaker 3 (01:49:07):
But I think it's like Jefferson Mays brings along the
legend of like I Am my own wife and all
like just has walked through so many big theater.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
Things in the many years. So like, yeah, Fleishman is
in trouble. I watched that. I liked it. How is that? Yeah?
Well yeah, and then of course it's like problem when
you know it's like the Leonardo DiCaprio meum, but thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:49:33):
It was the most culturally specific thing I've ever had
the pleasure of working on. No, but like that's okay,
And I feel like everything I mentioned, but I can
only speak about it through the like lens of something else.
I remember watching Always Be My Maybe Yeah, and watching
this scene at this house party where kids are coming
to this birthday party. They tear off their shoes, they
run through the house, they put on their shoes, they

(01:49:54):
put their shoes back on, and they go to the party,
and like following their POV like you learn a lot,
like if you are part of that culture, you're probably
getting a ton of specific references and if you're not,
you're like you're you're welcome, but they're not going to
explain it to you. And that's kind of how certain
aspects of Fleischmann felt like to me. Like since watching
always be my maybe I was like, God, I want that,
like I want like I feels like a lot of

(01:50:17):
times when we see Jewish people on screen, it's like
a Hollywood interpretation of Haradi life, which is rarely accurate,
and like it's there's more like Agatha all along, did
it really well? Liked did other aspects of Judaism really well?
But between that and this is Fleischmann, And there is
no way not to sound nerdy as I tell you

(01:50:38):
this story. There's we're sitting around this table. We blockshot
all three episodes. It was one of the greatest days
of my life. It was so and like I was
sitting I was sitting across from Clear Danes, who I
had grown up watching right on my so called life
and thinking, God, I want to do that with my life.
So then to like get a few minutes to actually
like stare with, like you know, trade eye contact was

(01:50:58):
kind of incredible. But it's a shop is dinner scene,
and so we're rehearsing with one hala and I raise
my I'm like, I asked to ask Tafia a question.
I'm like, is this a laham Mishna house? So Laham
Mishna is like when you make the blessing over Halla,
you need two loaves and it's sort of symbolic.

Speaker 2 (01:51:17):
There's a bunch of reasons.

Speaker 3 (01:51:19):
And she looks at me and she goes, well, of course,
but I'm not going to burn two loaves in rehearsal.
And I was like, I will never get to ask
a question this specific again. And we can also go
back if you would like a better anecdote for the podcast.
Like for me, that was a huge I never have
been in an environment where like we can speak that

(01:51:41):
shorthand and be under like she can understand my question
and give me an answer that gives me levels and
we can move right on.

Speaker 2 (01:51:49):
Yeah, like I may never have that again.

Speaker 3 (01:51:52):
So like the entire process, like it was fittings were
around porim, there were a humintash and like, yeah, it
was my Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
It's reminding me of like we talked to B. D.

Speaker 1 (01:52:02):
Wong and he was saying that like on Nora from
Queen's There was like a lot of that like a
shorthand that they could just use like from cultural upbringing.
You know, that's really interesting that you have the same
kind of experience.

Speaker 2 (01:52:14):
I loved it. It was I loved the novel.

Speaker 3 (01:52:17):
I loved Taffy, and so like to get to play
a small role and like telling that story and to
play somebody like I feel like I knew, we all
knew somebody who had like gone to Israel and like
become deeply, deeply religious. It was fun to like step
into those shoes and like antagonize everyone a little.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
When you're on your IMDb the scene that's playing right
up next year photo is Benson taking you out of
the truck and how it's you guys fighting. I mean,
it's just so much good stuff, really, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:52:43):
It was that was that whole episode was so much
fun to shoot. They I spent like four hours in
the trunk of that car, and they had props had
like taken they'd like duct tape over maybe like medical
tape that they had tried to take the stick off of,
but Sophia Bush kept having to like rip the tape off. Yes,

(01:53:03):
and she's like apologizing after every take, I'm like, I
signed up for this. I knew this was I but
like it was lovely there was chicken in my hair. Okay,
so I have to back I have to back up
and explain that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:15):
I think. So they have like that bloodhound that's in
the scene.

Speaker 3 (01:53:18):
I believe he was a retired blood He's like a
retired police dog. So they needed him to chase something
he was very, very interested in. And it wasn't me
chicken like many dogs. So like they had put they
had like scented the trunk with a little bit of
chicken so that the dog would find it, and then
you know, once the scene was cute, like a little
reward of chicken. But the end of like four hours,

(01:53:40):
I was definitely like, oh, there's like a piece of chicken.

Speaker 2 (01:53:43):
In my hair. Was the dog cue.

Speaker 3 (01:53:46):
He was like an enormous bloodhound. Every I'm a I'm
a dog person, Every dog is cue.

Speaker 2 (01:53:51):
I know, he was an enormous blood boy. Is well,
I mean you got to be a jury for person.
That's Svu Bingo. I mean that's really fun.

Speaker 3 (01:54:00):
I had thought a long time that it's like if
I could manage to be a corpse, I'd really be
hitting it big, like that could be my moment and like,
so to actually get to spend a week on that
set observing all of those people and getting to participate
in the creation of that episode was like beyond.

Speaker 2 (01:54:17):
It was incredible. It was so much fun.

Speaker 3 (01:54:19):
I don't think we recorded my speaking towards the end
of the week, so I spent a lot of time
like watching, reacting, learning how how the sausage got.

Speaker 2 (01:54:28):
Made in the tea and like the actual factual TV
world love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
And now it's like you're literally beyond Like if you
just were to like cut out all the main characters
on the show, top ten side characters.

Speaker 2 (01:54:45):
Well and I and I mean, it would be fun
to see you get out of jail in the future
and come do one more one more thing.

Speaker 3 (01:54:54):
I'm touched that I'm not dead. One of the makeup
artists like he would just see me in the hall
and you'd be like, hey, not yet. And I started
to feel like it was my nickname it but it's true,
Like I sometimes wonder, I'm like what I feel like
bron Win's moment maybe has like passed, like has definitely
passed by, but like I'm like is she did she
go to jail. I'm assuming Barbara made sure she went

(01:55:15):
to jail, right, Is she still there? What's her racket? Like? Also,
I think she really did experience trauma in that episode that,
like everyone around her, I think is too angry at
her right rightfully so to recognize her care. Yeah, And
I do sort of wonder what that sort of experience
with Yates has like done to her. And that's who

(01:55:36):
that's made her into, because I think she likes so
like many people I imagine in that sort of headspace,
like sees the person she can save, sees the person
who needs her, and like to be to be assaulted
and traumatized by the person you're trying to help, like
to Brek, Like, I wonder what that did to her.

Speaker 1 (01:55:56):
Yeah, And it's like the hatred from Benson is so
real because Benson, even when she finds a person, even
when a person's done something wrong and she finds out
they're a victim, you usually see her switch to treating
them like a victim.

Speaker 2 (01:56:09):
But she just will not do that with you because I.

Speaker 1 (01:56:11):
Think you, like brought her so much trauma from those
other the William Lewis situation that it's it's really kind
of I know it's serious, it's a serious episode, but
your character brings me a lot of like laughed, like
I think it's you bring humor to the it, you know,
where You're like, she has a lot of bad feelings
towards me. I don't think I should be talking to

(01:56:32):
her right now.

Speaker 3 (01:56:33):
It's really I I'm happy that she's able to bring
a moment of levity, yeah, or like extranists, so like
serial killers, you know, truly, it's like she's she's kind
of the worst.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
She's I loved.

Speaker 3 (01:56:47):
I loved playing her when I'm when I'm handed a script,
I go to to bat to defend that character and
chase after everything they want.

Speaker 2 (01:56:55):
But man, I'm like, yeah, Bronwyn.

Speaker 3 (01:56:57):
They despise me in the SPU subreddit and I'm like,
I did, I've not spent a lot of time. Somebody
mentioned it to me and I went looking once and
it's like I was like, oh, I think it was.
There was a meme going around of like who do
you hate most? Like like villains, like to your point,
like not main characters, just like people you really hate,
and people kept sending it to me because I was
showing up in some people's like collections of like twelve people.

(01:57:21):
And I think that's when somebody mentioned the SVU subreddit
to me, and so I went and I took a look,
and I'm like, oh, dang, they hate me, and like
one person crossed the line into like talking about my body,
and somebody else like course corrected them.

Speaker 2 (01:57:35):
It was like no, far no, And I was.

Speaker 3 (01:57:38):
Like, I'm so glad someone like that is in this subreddit,
and I think that is my signal to gracefully exit.
But when I need a pithy like blue sky bio,
I think it might say that right now, like most
hated person in the SVU sub Yeah, Like I think
I wear that as a badge of honor.

Speaker 2 (01:57:52):
Literally I just googled it really quickly.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
Bronwin as if you read it, and it's like Broadwin
is so bizarre, fucking Bronwin. I despise bra who is
the worst small character and why is it Bronwyn like.

Speaker 3 (01:58:05):
And I'm like, you know, if I'm inspiring that level
of hatred, then I did something right.

Speaker 1 (01:58:10):
Yeah, I mean they gave you you you played a
character who let multiple serial killers go so like the worst, yes, yes, yeah,
I would love to see a Bronwin out of jail
in the city. She's a witness to a crime in
her and Benson cross paths again.

Speaker 2 (01:58:26):
Yeah, like Benson and Noah are just in the streets,
and then like she just sees Bronwin standing.

Speaker 1 (01:58:32):
Because I think Bronwyn, we need Bronwyn to apologize to
Olivia at some point and be like, I'm sorry, I
was in a bad place. I was chasing after the
wrong men in my life. You know, do you think
do you think that she's reformed? Do you think she's
grown like that?

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
No? In prison? Probably not. Well, I'm also curious at
what you're what what you do at your job and
the shows you met here at the studio you say
you also love it. I am curious about Oh yeah, totally, totally.

Speaker 1 (01:59:02):
So.

Speaker 3 (01:59:02):
I am a senior producer on LinkedIn's editorial production team.
So I work. I work at a tech company. I
have an arts job at a tech company. Don't let
that get out too much. So we make several shows
in house. We partner with a bunch more as part
of the LinkedIn podcast network. I got to help launch
that network in twenty twenty two. The thing I realized
as I was getting ready to sort of pivot away

(01:59:24):
from like actor survival jobs. Was I wanted to be
doing things that I felt were like helpful and additive.
And I really think that the stuff that we're making
is helpful and additive to people at various points in
their careers, sometimes even their job searches. And so I
love what I do. I work with incredible, incredible people,

(01:59:44):
and I love hearing from members who like listen to
our shows. You do not have to be a LinkedIn
member to hear any of this. It's wherever you listen
to podcasts. Oh wow, but yeah cool.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
Yeah, thank you for taking the time to talk to us.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
I was doing shows in Cincinnati this weekend and someone
I try to give the people that come out to
see me like tidbits because they're just humans, right. So
I'm like, bron Win's coming this week, and everyone was
very excited. I'm like, we're getting Bronwin, baby.

Speaker 3 (02:00:12):
Thank you, thank you so much. This has been delightful.
Thank you so much for your nation.

Speaker 2 (02:00:17):
Yeah you too. Okay. I was like obsessed with Sarah,
like she remembered so much, so thoughtful, She's such a
lover of the craft and all the theater and knows
everything and is so specific in her storytelling and moments
and yeah, like yes, what she does means a lot

(02:00:39):
to her and.

Speaker 1 (02:00:40):
It's cool totally and so like eloquently putting how she
found like the vibe on the set and the opportunity
that she was having and yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
It's like what we want from all the guests. I know.
I'm like, can you remember every detail and like all
the people and give us the nuanced answers please?

Speaker 1 (02:00:58):
Yes, exactly, Like every single moment, every little comment from
a director.

Speaker 2 (02:01:03):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (02:01:04):
We love the specifics that said, if you made an
episode twenty years ago, we would still like you to
be on the show. If you don't know, yeah, we'll
have you.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
Yeah. Oh I wouldn't know about the double Hallas. I
would be like, can we eat this for real? Like
I would just be happy there's holla around. Yeah, I
really that failing my Jewish tests here, but that.

Speaker 1 (02:01:26):
Was awesome and uh, I guess yeah, we could just
go right into it.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
Do you know what? I think so much about the
Camp of Bronwyn and just the sort like there's just
so much that I do. I did forget that Yeats
is like an animal, you know what I mean, Like
he really did fuck her up, and Rednick is the
sweet soul murder of you know, he did, you know,
decapitate a woman but somehow let her go. Yeah. Yeah,

(02:01:53):
and for being so wealthy. It is weird that Rudnick
works as a medical examiner like it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:00):
Ask my question though, do we think Rudnick has killed
a bunch of times since the killing when he was young,
like years he gets.

Speaker 2 (02:02:07):
His jolly is off, like dissecting, just doing.

Speaker 1 (02:02:10):
This stuff in the morgue, Like do you think he's
kind of like that's what he figured out was his
like way to like stop his urges to kill, was
like working in the morgue.

Speaker 2 (02:02:19):
And then the next person he kills.

Speaker 1 (02:02:21):
Yes, of course he murders and like like chops up
the the Yates's wife or baby mama whatever, but like
before in between them, do you think he kills.

Speaker 2 (02:02:33):
The way Yates like has to kill. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:02:38):
Yeah, he's like most conscience if he lets Bronwin go,
whereas Yates is an animal, like you said, yeah, he
needs it.

Speaker 2 (02:02:47):
Yeah. This I mean not to keep talking about Luigi,
but it is like when you know, we're into murder
now it's like we're like, listen, Rudnick, he figured it out.

Speaker 1 (02:02:57):
I just what are the chances that, like we were
did this interview while a nationwide manhunt was concluding.

Speaker 2 (02:03:03):
It's just like very you know, it's very coincidental. I
love it.

Speaker 1 (02:03:07):
But post mortem on this episode, I mean, I don't
know how much takeaway there is for the average person.
Don't start a love affair with a serial killer. Don't
do it twice. I don't know, Like, don't do it
two times, like they're going to lock you in the
trunk of a car and drive away.

Speaker 2 (02:03:22):
They don't. Yeah, they're they are criminals who got caught
who want to not be caught. Like stop, stop, it's
not real. You know, we really drill into opposites. Attract
or love can find you anywhere. But let's say prison's
not it prison?

Speaker 1 (02:03:39):
Do you think, like the guy that didn't die and
now I'm forgetting because their names are so interchangeable in
the Dana Mora escape, like he just like sits in
prison every day and thinks about ways that the plan
got fucked up because like I mean, wow, because it's
like you're not gonna the stars are not gonna align
that way. Again bro, and so they're probably keeping a

(02:04:01):
serious watch on you.

Speaker 2 (02:04:02):
Now when it wasn't fun, like that's the whole thing.
It's like, well, I don't know what it's like to
be so captives that Like maybe that was fun, but
like fighting for your life at night in the woods
just doesn't even seem that more enjoyable than like getting
fucked in the tailor room. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:04:20):
Yeah, they kind of walked away from a good situation
that they had.

Speaker 2 (02:04:23):
I know, it was life, but it's like this woman
was paying off debt, Like it seems like people were
the employees were down to fuck, like.

Speaker 1 (02:04:31):
Overall, few cheeseburgers, like, come on, like it wasn't that bad. Wow,
this one wild, I mean, just such a wild episode, uh,
bringing back Bronwyn, linking together multiple serial killers bringing a
world c I remember when I watched this when it
was first on, being like I wonder how much the

(02:04:53):
police departments of Chicago and New York actually interface, you know,
like how much are they actually working on crimes of
a killer that just works between those two places, like
dick Wolf makes it seem like they are just side
by side squads. But you know, maybe maybe a lot
of people got into Chicago p D from this who knows.

Speaker 2 (02:05:14):
Yeah, I want to know do crossovers work, like do
the lead and so I mean, I'll tell you the
greatest of all time was Beverly Hills Housewives and the
vander Pump Rules. But I really can't think of any other, like, oh,
I gotta get into this one that never yeah, has
a crossover. I'm usually like piss, it didn't even work
for organized crime and I'm an SBU podcast, Like, yeah,

(02:05:35):
you'd think I want Maloney back in my life. Yeah,
I mean it did for me.

Speaker 1 (02:05:40):
I'm still a season behind though, so we'll see if
I catch up. I'm gonna try to catch up up
with that over the holidays. Actually, just like do a
day of just watching OC NonStop Maloney in my face
the whole time, because I do like it.

Speaker 2 (02:05:52):
It is good.

Speaker 1 (02:05:53):
But yeah, I got like I was. It depends if
we're talking about crossover versus spinoff. I mean from nine
O two one, oh, I went right into melrose Place
and like all these other like that was a crossover.
Like there were some crossovers get me sometimes, but yeah,
vander Pump and Beverly Hills is uh that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (02:06:11):
I realized that melrose Place and nine O two one
zero were linked outside of just Aaron spelling, like, I
didn't realize there was crossover.

Speaker 1 (02:06:20):
Yes, Jake, the main hottie on melrose Place was like
in a flirtation with Kelly on Beverly Hills Rid Toto.

Speaker 2 (02:06:29):
So that's how it's popped off.

Speaker 1 (02:06:31):
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Grant Show.

Speaker 2 (02:06:35):
Oh my god, I used to watch I used to
watch melrose and Beverly Hills. I loved them so much.
But what do you think? Should we move on to
what would Sister Peg Do? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:06:44):
Yeah, so this week, so what would mister Peg Do?
Our weekly segment where we direct you towards an article,
a book, an organization, something to give you more info
about what we talked about in today's episode. We wanted
to obviously point you to the mini series Escape at
Dana Mora, like we described it in the episode. It
stars Paul Dano, Benicio del Toro, and Patricia Arquette.

Speaker 2 (02:07:03):
It's directed by Ben Siller.

Speaker 1 (02:07:05):
It like was nominated and I think won a bunch
of awards, and it's now on Netflix. So if you're
looking for something to watch in these last few days
of holiday break escape a Dana Mora give you more
info on uh that that escape may help you visualize
the whole escape, and that will be posted the day
this episode comes out in our stories Saved Forever, in
our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page.

Speaker 2 (02:07:28):
You know, I was talking shit about how I don't
want another Jean Vine like Ramsey show, you know, but
I talked to someone who watched and said their opinion
to change. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:07:41):
So yeah, it's like a lot of people said their
opinion changed about Casey Anthony when they watched that one,
and I just I just can't change my opinion.

Speaker 2 (02:07:49):
I don't think on that one. But maybe I'm wrong. No,
she did it and she got away with it. And yeah,
if you commit a crime, I would try to hire
that lawyer. Like I don't have to tell you. Next
week we will be doing Prodigy. I'm excited, Season three,
episode thirteen, and we'll see you in the New Year. Wow.

(02:08:09):
How special.

Speaker 1 (02:08:10):
Happy New Year's Eve everybody, and we'll see you in
twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (02:08:14):
Bye. That's messed up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:08:26):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the
podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on
Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at
Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see
our show notes for sources and more information.

Speaker 2 (02:08:47):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.

Speaker 1 (02:08:54):
Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and.

Speaker 2 (02:08:57):
To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Jean
Andrews for our artwork.

Speaker 1 (02:09:01):
Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff,
Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 2 (02:09:09):
Dun dun

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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