June 16, 2025 • 33 mins
📰 Overview of the Conflict
- Israel has launched a major military offensive against Iran, targeting nuclear facilities and high-ranking military officials.
- The conflict began after Iran refused a 60-day ultimatum from former President Trump to dismantle its nuclear program.
- On day 61, Israel initiated strikes, citing Iran’s continued uranium enrichment and refusal to negotiate.
🎯 Key Military Developments
- Israel has struck over 720 military targets in Iran.
- High-profile Iranian military leaders and nuclear scientists have been killed, including:
- Major General Hossein Salami (IRGC)
- Major General Mohammad Bagheri
- Brigadier General Amir Ali Hajizadeh
- Nuclear physicists and intelligence officials
- Israel has also targeted nuclear facilities like Natanz and attempted strikes on Fordow, a heavily fortified underground site.
🧠 Intelligence and Strategy
- The podcast praises Israel’s intelligence capabilities, noting the precision and coordination of the strikes.
- The hosts argue that Israel’s actions have significantly degraded Iran’s military and nuclear capabilities.
🇺🇸 U.S. Involvement and Political Commentary
- The episode strongly supports President Trump’s foreign policy, emphasizing his role in setting the 60-day deadline and backing Israel.
- It criticizes President Biden as weak and contrasts his approach with Trump’s “peace through strength” doctrine.
- The hosts argue that American support for Israel is crucial for national and global security.
⚠️ Risks and Future Outlook
- Despite Israel’s successes, serious risks remain:
- Iranian missile attacks on Israeli cities like Tel Aviv.
- Potential for Iranian retaliation against U.S. forces.
- Risk of escalation into broader regional or global conflict.
- The podcast warns of the dangers of a nuclear-armed Iran, including the possibility of an EMP attack or nuclear terrorism.
🧨 Moral and Strategic Justifications
- Ben and Senator Cruz frame Israel’s actions as a moral imperative to prevent a second Holocaust.
- They argue that Iran’s leadership is irrational and apocalyptic, making deterrence unreliable.
- The episode calls for continued pressure on Iran, including economic sanctions and support for regime change.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Good Monday morning, and as Verdict with Center, Ted Kruz,
Ben Ferguson with you and Centator, We've got a lot
to chat about, especially when it deals with what's happening
with Israel and Iran.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It is day five of Israel's war with Iran, and
the entire world is watching with bated breath. Israel is
scoring major victories, taking out senior Iranian military leadership, doing
massive damage to Iran's nuclear facilities. We're going to break
down exactly what has happened. We're going to talk also
(00:31):
about the missiles that are flying back into Israel, about
the Israeli civilians who are being wounded, who are being
killed as a price for this war. We're going to
talk about the risks that American servicemen and women are
facing in the Middle East, and the risk all of
us are facing here at home, of the potential for
Iranian terrorism, and the question everyone is asking, what's next?
(00:54):
Where does this go? More than once I've had teenagers
at home ask is this World War III? The short
answer is no. But we're going to break down why
all of that on today's Verdict.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, it's a really important show.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I want to also make sure you guys, remember hit
that subscribe auto download button and share this podcast on
your social media wherever you're listening right now. We've also
had so many of you that have asked the question,
how can I help people in Israel? And we've been
telling you about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews
and the work they are doing is incredible. They are
deploying bomb shelters as we speak to help keep people
(01:32):
safe in Israel. When things get bad, that is when
they step up and protect families and loved ones. And
if you want to get involved and stand with the
people in Israel right now, you can do it by
giving food and shelter to Jewish families that are under threat.
As I said, they're building bomb shelters for children, They're
(01:52):
helping survivors of the attacks that we're witnessing right now,
and they are doing it daily. Your gift of only
forty five dollars will help support life saving work by
providing food, shelter, and so much more. I was speaking
with the CEO of IFCJ and she was talking about
just how hard it is for so many families in
(02:13):
Israel right now and what they're doing on the ground
and the bomb shelters that are needed. And she said,
very simply, if you can help stand with the people
in Israel that are under attack, they are doing everything
they can to support them and to give the bomb
shelters that are needed. So step up and help right
now if you can at all eight eight eight four
(02:34):
eight eight IFCJ that's eight eight eight four eight eight
four three two five. You can also give online at
IFCJ dot org. Every dollar helps, don't wait be the
difference IFCJ dot org or eight eight eight four eight
eight IFCJ. So senat her, this started, as you mentioned,
(02:55):
five days ago, and let's go back to what caused
this to have happen and remind people how we got here.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, in many ways, I think this was inevitable. It
is inevitable because the Iyatola has set out a clear
objective of acquiring a nuclear weapon. President Trump had given
the Iyatola a sixty day deadline, a sixty day deadline
to cut a deal, and the deal that the President
was demanding was complete. Dismantlement I led a letter of
fifty two Republican senators saying, we agree with President Trump
(03:27):
that the only acceptable outcome is complete and total dismantlement,
every Iranian centrifuge being dismantled. Why because the Iranians have
proved they are liars, and if they keep enriching uraniums,
they will use that to try to develop a nuclear weapon.
And given that these are theocratic lunatics who chant death
to America and death to Israel, I believe they want
(03:50):
a nuclear weapon because they want the ability to use
a nuclear weapon. And so on day sixty one, Iran
announced we will not dismt even a single centrifuge, and
we're going to build more. We're going to keep enriching,
which was essentially a gigantic middle finger to President Trump,
but it was also telling Israel, hey hit us now,
(04:13):
because we're going to keep going until we get a nuke.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
And Israel did not need to be asked twice.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
This attack was launched on the sixty first day, the
day after the expiration of President Trump's deadline. And listen,
what we've seen in the last five days has been
a massive attack from Israel that is highly targeted. As
of June fifteenth, Israel had struck more than seven hundred
and twenty military targets in Iran. These air strikes are
(04:44):
largely intelligence driven. Their precision strikes on infrastructure, on military leaders,
on mobile military targets. And part of the reason Israel's
able to do so is that Israel has almost complete
dominant of the airspace because they've degraded Iran's air defenses.
And so in the last five days, who have they
(05:06):
taken out? Well, Israel has taken out Major General Hossein Salami,
who was the commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps
the IRGC. They've taken out Major General Mohammad Bagheri, who
was the chief of Staff of the Armed Forces. They've
taken out Major General Golam Ali Rashid, who was the
(05:26):
head of the katam al Anbia Central Headquarters. They've taken
out Brigadier General Amir Ali haja Zades, commander of the
IRGC Air Force. They've taken out Ali Shamkhani, who's a
close aid to the Supreme Leader and the former Iranian
Navy commander. They have taken out Amir Ali hajid Adeh,
(05:51):
commander of the IRGC Airspace Units oversaw ballistic missiles. They've
taken out Brigadier General Kosrav Hasani, the IRGC Intelligence Airspace
Force chief deputy. They've taken out Mohammed Mehdi Taranji, who's
a physicist and president of the Islamic Azad University in Tehran.
(06:13):
And they've taken out Fari dun Abbasi, former head of
the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran. This is massive. This
is decapitation of the senior military leaders in Iran. They've
also had targeted strikes on bases, and we're going to
go through that in a minute. But the effect of it,
the leaders that Iran would turn to to say wage
(06:36):
war against Israel, they're all taken out and it was
almost instantaneous. Now, the other thing that has the Iranians
completely freaked out is the intel Israel knew where each
of those leaders were. They took them all out within
hours of each other. I mean, it was almost instantaneous. Now,
(06:57):
you got to note the Iranian their leaders were all
set around in predictable places on the sixty first day.
They did not think Israel was going to act. That
that was a wrong prediction. And you combine that with
massive degradation of the air defenses and and multiple attacks
on basis nuclear facilities and also missile launch sites and
(07:20):
Israel's opening salvos of this attack have been incredibly effective.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You look at the effectiveness of this, and I do
have to just say, honestly, wow, the intelligence work that
they'd just been sitting on, as you mentioned, Israel is
truly mind blowing.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
But there's also I think.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
A debt of gratitude the world owes Israel for stepping
up and doing what needed to be done.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Would you agree, absolutely yes, and listen, Iran wants a
nuclear weapon. The Iyatola refers to Israel as the little Satan.
He refers to America as the great Satan. And I
got to say, as an American, I think Americans should
(08:07):
be grateful that Israel is taking out not just these leaders.
And mind you, the IRGC are the same people who've
taken out two different hits on President Trump. Have hired
assassins to try to murder President Trump. They've hired assassins
to try to murder Trump's former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.
They've hired assassins to try to murder Trump's former national
(08:30):
security advisor John Bolton. And these nuclear weapons, it is
a massive favor to the United States to take out
the facility, So, for example, the Natan's facility, which is
the main uranium enrichment facility. The United Nations Nuclear Chief
Raphael Grossi told the Security Council that the above ground
(08:50):
section of Theaton's facility was totally destroyed. He said all
the electrical infrastructured, emergency power generators were destroyed, and he
said the section of the facility where uranium was enriched
up to sixty percent, that was destroyed. Satellite imagery confirms
that the pilot fuel enrichment plant was destroyed and buildings
across the facility were damaged. There also reports that electricity
(09:14):
is down into Tons's lower levels, which is where centrifuged
centrifuge is used to enrich uranium are stored. That was
massively effective. And you know one thing I want to say,
so on Twitter, look, most people, certainly people who are
focused on protecting America's national security, are celebrating what's happening here.
But I will say there's some voices on Twitter who
(09:36):
have decided that what America First means is that we
retreat from the world and we don't actually stand up
to our enemies. And I'm here to tell you that
is not America first. Listen, I am someone who is
reluctant to put US servicemen and women in harm's way.
And by the way, President Trump is also in his
(09:56):
first term, he did not invade foreign countries. Indeed, he
ended two wars. But at the same time, it is
worth remembering Donald Trump has never been an isolationist. In
his first term, Donald Trump inherited from Barack Obama. ISIS
had to caliphate the size of the state of Indiana,
and Trump utterly decimated that caliphate. He destroyed ISIS. Trump
(10:18):
took out General Solimani, the former head of the ira GC,
and he also took out al Baghdadi. Trump's actions were
never those of an isolation or said. I will say,
some of the folks who are throwing rocks attacking the president,
attacking the president saying President Trump is not America first,
because he's supporting Israel and standing up and stopping Iran
(10:40):
from getting nuclear weapons, I will say. The President had
an interview in The Atlantic where here's what he said.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, considering that I'm the one that developed America first,
and considering that the term wasn't used until I came along,
I think I'm the one that decides that for those
people who say they want peace, you can't have peace
if Iran has a nuclear weapon. So for all those
wonderful people who don't want to do anything about Iran
having a nuclear weapon, that's not peace. I got to
(11:10):
say I agree with President Trump. He is exactly right,
and America first means peace through strength and stopping Iran
from getting a nuclear weapon keeps us out of war.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
How close do you think we really were? And that's
one of the questions I've been asked. If I've been
asked at once, it's a hundred times to dealing with
the real possibility of a nuclear Iran or an Iran
that was willing to go after Israel the way that
Israel has described it, it was way closer than it
should have ever been.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Well, that's right, and I'll tell you what you should
listen to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Att and Yahoo when
he explains what their intelligence showed here, give a listen.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
You know, I just want to press you on the
intel on the nuclear part. Less than two months ago,
the new Director of National Intelligence, Tulsa Gabbert, testified on
Capitol Hill, saying that everything had been suspended since two
thousand and three and had not restarted. That the nuclear
program had not been restarted by the Iranians. So did
something change from end of March until this week? Was
(12:12):
the US intel wrong?
Speaker 6 (12:14):
The intel we got and we shared with the United
States was absolutely clear, was absolutely clear that they were
working in a secret plan to weaponize the uranium. They
were marching very quickly. They would achieve a test device
and possibly an initial device within months and certainly less
than a year. That was the intel we shared with
(12:36):
the United States. I think we have excellent intel in Iran.
I think we've proven that, and that is something that
we couldn't possibly accept, whether it would be six months
or twelve months or thirteen months as immateial. Once they'd
go that route, it's too late, and we will not
have a second holocaust, a nuclear holocaust. We already had
(12:56):
one in the previous century. The Jewish state is not
going to have the Locaust admitted on the Jewish people.
It's not going to happen. It's never again, is now,
and we have to act now.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Senator.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
The idea of a nuclear holocaust the way that he
just described it is one that I think everyone should
just step back and really think about. And then there's
this second aspect of this, which is, if there's any
foreign policy doctrine that has been very clear in the world,
it is Iran saying that they want to destroy Israel
(13:28):
from the river the sea, death to Israel. It is
their foreign policy. It is clear. They're not lying about it.
Believe them when they say they want to annihilate Israel.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Well, and look the Ayatola.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
The Islamic result revolution in Iran succeeded in nineteen seventy nine,
and the Iranian regime since that time has been the
number one state sponsor of terrorism in the world. The
Ayatola has paid for Hamas provides. Iran provide over ninety
percent of the funding for AMAS, over ninety percent of
the funding for Hespola. They fund terrorists who murder Israelis.
(14:06):
They found terrorists who murder Americans. General Solimani, who Trump
took out in the first term, was directly responsible for
the murder of over six hundred American service men and women.
And to give you a sense of the level of
hatred from from the Iranian radicals, and I want to
(14:27):
draw a distinction between the theocratic zealots. That that is
is the Ayatola and the Malas versus the Iranian people. Look,
the people of Iran before the revolution, Iran was a
relatively secular country. They were an ally of America. That
they were in many senses pro America. And it was
the radical Jihadis that took it over, that that twisted it.
(14:50):
And they've been horrible to the people of Iran. And
so I think there are a great many people in
Iran who yearn to be free from from these theocratic
lunatics who've dominated the and who engage in torture and
murder and suppression of their own citizens. But the former
here's an amazing fact, the former head of the Iranian
(15:12):
nuclear program, who has some time ago gone to meet
his maker, and many say at the hands of the Massad,
the Israeli intelligence services. He had written in his last
will and testament that he wanted the following words written
on his tombstone. Here lies a man who sought to
(15:36):
annihilate Israel. Now, Ben, what kind of level of bilious
hate do you have when the only thing you want
to be remembered for is I am a bigot and
an anti Semite. And I want to murder as many
Jews as possible. That's the sum total of my life.
And listen, this is where a lot of Democrats and
(15:59):
and and a lot of folks who are isolationists, they say, well,
what business is it of ours if Iran has a
nuclear weapon. I believe if the Ayatola had a nuclear weapon,
the odds are unacceptably high that he would use that
nuclear weapon. And I want to draw contrast to North Korea. Look,
(16:21):
Kim Jong un, dictator of North Korea, has a significant
nuclear arsenal that was a result of catastrophic policy mistakes,
most notably by Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton went to Kim
Jong UN's father, Kim Jong Il, and said, hey, let's
cut a deal with you. We'll flow tens of billions
of dollars for you in exchange for you promising not
(16:42):
to make nuclear weapons. And Kim Jong il said, hey,
great idea. I'll take your deal. And he took the
tens of billions of dollars and he used them to
develop nuclear weapons. And so now we've got a crackpok
dictator on the Korean peninsula with nuclear weapons that periodically
goes off and threatens to fire the nuclear weapons at America.
You know, Trump famously calls calls Kim Jong un rocketman.
(17:06):
The one thing that that is a very dangerous part
of the world because Kim Jong un is megale maniacal,
He's unpredictable. But but there is one thing we know,
which is that he values staying in power, and he
knows if God forbid, he ever used a nuclear weapon
that day his regime would be over. So hopefully you
(17:28):
can have some modicum of rational deterrence. Uh with Kim
Jong un. The problem with the Ayatola is he is
a theocratic zealot. He glories in death and suicide, and
so the Iyatola knows if he detonated a nuclear weapon.
He knows that that that his regime would instantly fall,
(17:51):
that massive Iranian deaths would would result. The problem is
if if he was able to murder millions of Jews
or millions of Americans, he just might be willing to
take that trade with religious zelotry. The ordinary cost benefit
analysis does not work, and so I think if he
(18:11):
had a nuclear weapon, we could find out for sure
with a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv or New York
or Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
There's Also another aspect of this, Iran is excellent at
using terrorist organizations. Yes, fund them, they give them, weaponry,
they train them. I mean, there are countless examples of
Iran using extremist groups. If they also got this technology,
there's what's the guarantee they wouldn't hand it over to
(18:42):
somebody like that.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, and look that's the problem. Do they have a
reliable ICBM that could carry a nuclear weapon from Iran
to Manhattan?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Probably not, although they're trying to develop them.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They have an ICBM program, and it's worth noting you
do not need an ICBM to get to Israel from Iran.
A ballistic missile is sufficient. An intercontinental ballistic missile is
designed to travel much further. One hundred percent of the
reason Iran has an ICBM program is to carry a
(19:15):
nuclear warhead to America. Israel's not the target of their ICBMs.
America is But I would note also they would not
need an ICBM to do it if they could get
it on a ship or a container and detonate it
in a port anywhere in America, or I'll tell you
one enormous risk, they could put it in a satellite
that is orbiting over say, the Eastern Seaboard and detonate
(19:38):
a nuclear weapon, which would set off an EMP and
take down the electrical grid. I'll tell you, I've seen
the projections. An EMP that took down the electrical grid
could result in, over time, millions of deaths in America.
That's the kind of vulnerability we're facing. And so my view,
President Trump is exactly right when he he says that's
(20:00):
not peace. We're not going to find out what a
world with an Iranian nuke is like. And I'll tell
you I spoke with President Trump this weekend and I
told him I thought he was doing a fantastic job,
and he was agreeing. He said, look, he gave I
ran every option to avoid this, and they didn't want to.
(20:21):
They wouldn't take a deal, they wouldn't agree to give
up their centrifuges. And I'll tell you what I told
the President.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I'm going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Said you talked to him this weekend, before this is
before and enduring, this is all this is happening.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, No, no, I talked to him. You and I are
talking right now. It is twelve twenty five am Sunday night,
Monday morning. I talked to him about two o'clock Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
All right, so you said that he said that he
offered him a deal. That's being just either just completely
disregarded by the media. Are severely underreported that he was
trying to get a deal done and they refused to
do it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's what the sixty day deadline was. He gave him
sixty days to cut a deal, and the deal had
to be complete dismantlement. And they basically told him go
jump in a lake. We don't want a deal, we
want a nuclear weapon. And so you know, Trump said,
all right, And I will say there were some early
reports from the administration that the administration didn't know anything
about it, and Trump very quickly corrected that and stead,
(21:20):
of course we do about it, which is exactly right.
And listen asking where does this go from here. I
don't see any outcome that results in American boots on
the ground. I don't see any outcome that results in
American soldiers fighting in Iran. What we're doing right now,
we're assisting the Israelis. We're assisting the Israelis in intel,
(21:43):
We're assisting the Israelis in surveillance. Israel Is engaged in
targeted military strikes within Iran. Iran is responding by firing
a barrage of ballistic missiles at Israel aimed at civilian targets.
So they're landing missiles in Tel Aviv. And I will say,
in terms of escalation, I'm worried that we will see
(22:05):
very significant casualties in Israel. I was speaking with a
friend of mine this evening whose mom is in Jerusalem
right now, and he said his mom, in five days
has gotten very little sleep because every night at two
at three in the morning, the sirens go off and
they have to rush to a bomb shelter. So he said,
she has not slept, slept very much for five days.
Because that's constantly happening. There is a real risk of
(22:27):
there've already been significant casualties, but they could be much higher.
And listen, the government of Israel knows that. But the
casualties from these missile strikes are are are relatively small
compared to the millions of Israelis who could die with
an Iranian nuclear attack. And and and so that's why
the government is acting to stop that. But I'll tell
(22:49):
you what I also said to the president. I said,
thank you in particular for making absolutely clear to Iran
the overwhelming consequences if they attack American servicemen and women.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
And yeah, that note that he put out there was
very clear because he's saying, hey, hey, we weren't involved
in this, and we're going to.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
State that clearly. This is Israel doing their thing.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
But if you think for a moment that you can
use us to justify attacking Americans anywhere in the world,
there will be hell to pay if you do that.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Look, I think if Iran carries out a significant strike
on American servicemen and women, then I think America, if
they think the bombs coming from Israel are bad, I
think they will face massive retaliation. And then that's called deterrence.
We want them not to strike our servicemen and women.
And by the way, that's the difference between Joe Biden,
(23:44):
who was so weak he couldn't deter anything. It helps
that our enemies are afraid of the commander in chief.
That's where actually in the debates about foreign policy, those
who argue for isolationism get it wrong, because if you're
so terrified to engage with your enemies that then you
(24:05):
end up causing more war.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I think Reagan was right.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I think Trump is right that when you're strong, when
you tell your enemies, if you attack and kill Americans,
your military leaders are going to die. What happens is
most of the time they say, you know what, We're
just not going to attack, and you end up avoiding
war because they're scared of the commander in chief.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
So where does this go from here?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And this is where everybody's saying, Hey, look, we want
an off ramp, right, like, that's something we do want.
We want this, we want to protect lives. But at
the same time, Israel is I think making it very
clear we have no choice but to do this, and
we're doing the world a huge service by doing it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, So the Israeli government is talking on a time
frame that this could last another week or two. They're
engaged in massive bombings and at some point, you know,
at some point the question is how much ordinance do
they have, how much capacity do they have to keep bombing,
and how many targets do they have.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I will say also.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
One of the most significant sites is Fordau. Now Fordau
is a nuclear bunker that is built into the side
of a mountain and it's built deliberately to make it
very difficult to strike, to carry out an airstrike, and
it's where much of their nuclear research is being conducted. Now,
(25:29):
there were reports on Sunday that Israel carried out a
strike at FORDAU, but at least based on publicly reported material,
Israel does not have sufficiently effective bunker buster bombs to
be able to take out the deep underground laboratories at FORDAU.
And so one of the open questions is, to the
(25:51):
best of my knowledge, the only military that has those
bombs is the United States. We have really big bunker
busters that are made to take out deep, deep underground
facilities like the ford Ale nuclear facilities, and so one
open question I have for a long time called for
the United States to make those bunker busters available to Israel.
(26:12):
I think taking out ford Ale makes a lot of sense.
I think if Israel does it. And by the way,
I'll point out, look, Israel is a small country. Israel
is about the size of the state of New Jersey.
And they are fighting against our enemies, our enemies who
a pledge they want to murder us, and they're doing
so at great risk to themselves. But but and so
(26:34):
that is something to be grateful for but understand they're
taking out Around's nuclear capabilities is very very good for
America because it makes America safer. And I think if
Israel finishes the job of taking out their nuclear capability,
I think this these attacks likely end within the next
(26:54):
couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You look at Donald Trump saying we can probably get
a deal done. Is that after we accomplish the mission.
If you're reading between the lines here, I mean you've
spoken with them. Is this a that we got to
allow our ally Israel to do what they need to
do in that timeframe as well?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So listen, I'm skeptical that Iran will ever ever cut
a real deal. I don't think you can negotiate with
crazy and I think these people are crazy.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
And and so.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I think one of the things that would enhance American
security massively is to see the Iyatola fall and to
see the Mullas lose power, to see different leadership come
to come to Iran. I think that would make Israel
much much safer. I think that would make America much safer,
and I think that would make the Iranian people better off. Now,
let me be clear, I'm not advocating that we send
(27:47):
in a bunch of American soldiers to make that happen.
I am advocating that we use maximum pressure and economic
sanctions to pressure the regime in a way that might
encourage this regime to fall, because I think that they
have demonstrated that they are are homicidal and murderously directing
(28:08):
their urges towards killing Americans, and so removing people from
power who are trying to kill Americans makes America safer.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well me also go back to something you mentioned earlier,
and this seems to clearly be part of Israel's strategy,
which is you go after and take out people that
are in essence holding down the people and silencing the
people in Iran in the leadership roles. That's part of
who they seem to be going after. That could be
huge for allowing what you just described actually happen a
(28:38):
revolution within Israel, or I should say within Iran.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Well and listen.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
One of the conscious choices that it appears that Israel
made was not to target the Iatola himself. And I
don't have I have no classify information any way. Yeah, wow,
so I's that out of curacy, So I don't know
for sure. I have no classified information on this. But
I can give an educator guess, which is that taking
(29:02):
out the leader of a country through military force is
a significant step. Now, mind you, the Iyatola is perfectly
fine hiring Hittman to try to murder Donald Trump. So
the Iyatola has no problem doing it. And I have
no doubt that if the Iatola could could murder Prime
Minister net and Yahoo, he would do so in the
blink of an eye.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
He has not been able to do so.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
But I think the Israelis, given their success and taking
out everyone else, I think it's reasonable to assume that
they would have had a real prospect of taking the
Iatola out had they chosen to do so. My guess
is that they made a decision that taking out the
leader of the country could backfire, especially given that he
is also a religious leader, and you run into a
(29:46):
danger of potentially making him a martyr, and and and
it is not clear if you toppled him in those
circumstances you might get a younger, theocratic lunatic takeover instead.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And so I think it is a reasonable decision for
Israel to say, rather than target the Ayatola directly, let's
take out every one of their top military officers that
they would use to prosecute a war. And by the way,
those are the same people they use to push down
and uprising to oppress their people and so degrading their capabilities.
(30:22):
It's what they've done with HESBLA, They've taken out their
top leadership.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It's what they've done. It's what they've done with Hamas.
And I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
On Saturday, Israel conducted a strike in Yemen, killing the
Huthi Chief of Staff Muhammad Abdul Karim al Gamari, who
was responsible for overseeing Huthi military operations and directing the
procurement and deployment of a number of weapons systems for them.
(30:50):
The Huthis are another arm of Iran, and so what
Israel has done is weakened Iran on every front, and
that oppressive infrastructure, their ability to wage war, their ability
to kill Israelis, their ability to kill Americans, their ability
to fund terrorism, and their ability to suppress their people,
all of those are substantially weakened.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
That's a very good thing.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Final question for you on this as we move forward
through this week. I think it's pretty obvious the media's
obsessed with Donald Trump, somehow not standing with Israel or
trying to drive a wedge. Do you think there's any
chance at all that can happen, because in the early
questions it was almost like, you guys are idiots.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I think President Trump has been the strongest pro Israel
president in the history of America. It's an exact contrast
with Joe Biden. Joe Biden was the most anti Israel
president in the history of America. The fact that they
occurred back and back, you want to talk about about whiplash.
You'll recall we did this podcast on when Bbe came
(31:55):
to Washington and I met with him for about two hours.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
He is a good friend.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I have not spoken to bb since this war broke out,
although I did speak with the Israeli ambassador to the
United States on Thursday night, the night the war began.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Uh and and and listen.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Their successes are significant, but but they they have the
complete backing of of of the Trump administration, and that
is important. I do think that there are some voices
within the administration that are pressing back and and and
part of the reason I talked to to President Trump
today was to say, what you're doing is exactly right.
(32:33):
You're making America safer by allowing Israel to take out
Iran's nukes, and you're also protecting American servicemen and women.
Keep doing it, and and and he he agreed emphatically.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Don't forget.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
We did a show Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Hit that
subscribe or auto download button so you do not miss
an episode as we take you behind the scenes, even
these conversations with President Trump as well. Uh so make
sure you do that. Please share this podcast on social
media as well. And also so you can now listen
to the show on YouTube, so it makes sure you
subscribe to our YouTube channel and the Center.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I will see you back here on Wednesday morning.
Good Monday morning, and as Verdict with Center, Ted Kruz,
Ben Ferguson with you and Centator, We've got a lot
to chat about, especially when it deals with what's happening
with Israel and Iran.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It is day five of Israel's war with Iran, and
the entire world is watching with bated breath. Israel is
scoring major victories, taking out senior Iranian military leadership, doing
massive damage to Iran's nuclear facilities. We're going to break
down exactly what has happened. We're going to talk also
(00:31):
about the missiles that are flying back into Israel, about
the Israeli civilians who are being wounded, who are being
killed as a price for this war. We're going to
talk about the risks that American servicemen and women are
facing in the Middle East, and the risk all of
us are facing here at home, of the potential for
Iranian terrorism, and the question everyone is asking, what's next?
(00:54):
Where does this go? More than once I've had teenagers
at home ask is this World War III? The short
answer is no. But we're going to break down why
all of that on today's Verdict.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, it's a really important show.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I want to also make sure you guys, remember hit
that subscribe auto download button and share this podcast on
your social media wherever you're listening right now. We've also
had so many of you that have asked the question,
how can I help people in Israel? And we've been
telling you about the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews
and the work they are doing is incredible. They are
deploying bomb shelters as we speak to help keep people
(01:32):
safe in Israel. When things get bad, that is when
they step up and protect families and loved ones. And
if you want to get involved and stand with the
people in Israel right now, you can do it by
giving food and shelter to Jewish families that are under threat.
As I said, they're building bomb shelters for children, They're
(01:52):
helping survivors of the attacks that we're witnessing right now,
and they are doing it daily. Your gift of only
forty five dollars will help support life saving work by
providing food, shelter, and so much more. I was speaking
with the CEO of IFCJ and she was talking about
just how hard it is for so many families in
(02:13):
Israel right now and what they're doing on the ground
and the bomb shelters that are needed. And she said,
very simply, if you can help stand with the people
in Israel that are under attack, they are doing everything
they can to support them and to give the bomb
shelters that are needed. So step up and help right
now if you can at all eight eight eight four
(02:34):
eight eight IFCJ that's eight eight eight four eight eight
four three two five. You can also give online at
IFCJ dot org. Every dollar helps, don't wait be the
difference IFCJ dot org or eight eight eight four eight
eight IFCJ. So senat her, this started, as you mentioned,
(02:55):
five days ago, and let's go back to what caused
this to have happen and remind people how we got here.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Well, in many ways, I think this was inevitable. It
is inevitable because the Iyatola has set out a clear
objective of acquiring a nuclear weapon. President Trump had given
the Iyatola a sixty day deadline, a sixty day deadline
to cut a deal, and the deal that the President
was demanding was complete. Dismantlement I led a letter of
fifty two Republican senators saying, we agree with President Trump
(03:27):
that the only acceptable outcome is complete and total dismantlement,
every Iranian centrifuge being dismantled. Why because the Iranians have
proved they are liars, and if they keep enriching uraniums,
they will use that to try to develop a nuclear weapon.
And given that these are theocratic lunatics who chant death
to America and death to Israel, I believe they want
(03:50):
a nuclear weapon because they want the ability to use
a nuclear weapon. And so on day sixty one, Iran
announced we will not dismt even a single centrifuge, and
we're going to build more. We're going to keep enriching,
which was essentially a gigantic middle finger to President Trump,
but it was also telling Israel, hey hit us now,
(04:13):
because we're going to keep going until we get a nuke.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
And Israel did not need to be asked twice.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
This attack was launched on the sixty first day, the
day after the expiration of President Trump's deadline. And listen,
what we've seen in the last five days has been
a massive attack from Israel that is highly targeted. As
of June fifteenth, Israel had struck more than seven hundred
and twenty military targets in Iran. These air strikes are
(04:44):
largely intelligence driven. Their precision strikes on infrastructure, on military leaders,
on mobile military targets. And part of the reason Israel's
able to do so is that Israel has almost complete
dominant of the airspace because they've degraded Iran's air defenses.
And so in the last five days, who have they
(05:06):
taken out? Well, Israel has taken out Major General Hossein Salami,
who was the commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps
the IRGC. They've taken out Major General Mohammad Bagheri, who
was the chief of Staff of the Armed Forces. They've
taken out Major General Golam Ali Rashid, who was the
(05:26):
head of the katam al Anbia Central Headquarters. They've taken
out Brigadier General Amir Ali haja Zades, commander of the
IRGC Air Force. They've taken out Ali Shamkhani, who's a
close aid to the Supreme Leader and the former Iranian
Navy commander. They have taken out Amir Ali hajid Adeh,
(05:51):
commander of the IRGC Airspace Units oversaw ballistic missiles. They've
taken out Brigadier General Kosrav Hasani, the IRGC Intelligence Airspace
Force chief deputy. They've taken out Mohammed Mehdi Taranji, who's
a physicist and president of the Islamic Azad University in Tehran.
(06:13):
And they've taken out Fari dun Abbasi, former head of
the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran. This is massive. This
is decapitation of the senior military leaders in Iran. They've
also had targeted strikes on bases, and we're going to
go through that in a minute. But the effect of it,
the leaders that Iran would turn to to say wage
(06:36):
war against Israel, they're all taken out and it was
almost instantaneous. Now, the other thing that has the Iranians
completely freaked out is the intel Israel knew where each
of those leaders were. They took them all out within
hours of each other. I mean, it was almost instantaneous. Now,
(06:57):
you got to note the Iranian their leaders were all
set around in predictable places on the sixty first day.
They did not think Israel was going to act. That
that was a wrong prediction. And you combine that with
massive degradation of the air defenses and and multiple attacks
on basis nuclear facilities and also missile launch sites and
(07:20):
Israel's opening salvos of this attack have been incredibly effective.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
You look at the effectiveness of this, and I do
have to just say, honestly, wow, the intelligence work that
they'd just been sitting on, as you mentioned, Israel is
truly mind blowing.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
But there's also I think.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
A debt of gratitude the world owes Israel for stepping
up and doing what needed to be done.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Would you agree, absolutely yes, and listen, Iran wants a
nuclear weapon. The Iyatola refers to Israel as the little Satan.
He refers to America as the great Satan. And I
got to say, as an American, I think Americans should
(08:07):
be grateful that Israel is taking out not just these leaders.
And mind you, the IRGC are the same people who've
taken out two different hits on President Trump. Have hired
assassins to try to murder President Trump. They've hired assassins
to try to murder Trump's former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.
They've hired assassins to try to murder Trump's former national
(08:30):
security advisor John Bolton. And these nuclear weapons, it is
a massive favor to the United States to take out
the facility, So, for example, the Natan's facility, which is
the main uranium enrichment facility. The United Nations Nuclear Chief
Raphael Grossi told the Security Council that the above ground
(08:50):
section of Theaton's facility was totally destroyed. He said all
the electrical infrastructured, emergency power generators were destroyed, and he
said the section of the facility where uranium was enriched
up to sixty percent, that was destroyed. Satellite imagery confirms
that the pilot fuel enrichment plant was destroyed and buildings
across the facility were damaged. There also reports that electricity
(09:14):
is down into Tons's lower levels, which is where centrifuged
centrifuge is used to enrich uranium are stored. That was
massively effective. And you know one thing I want to say,
so on Twitter, look, most people, certainly people who are
focused on protecting America's national security, are celebrating what's happening here.
But I will say there's some voices on Twitter who
(09:36):
have decided that what America First means is that we
retreat from the world and we don't actually stand up
to our enemies. And I'm here to tell you that
is not America first. Listen, I am someone who is
reluctant to put US servicemen and women in harm's way.
And by the way, President Trump is also in his
(09:56):
first term, he did not invade foreign countries. Indeed, he
ended two wars. But at the same time, it is
worth remembering Donald Trump has never been an isolationist. In
his first term, Donald Trump inherited from Barack Obama. ISIS
had to caliphate the size of the state of Indiana,
and Trump utterly decimated that caliphate. He destroyed ISIS. Trump
(10:18):
took out General Solimani, the former head of the ira GC,
and he also took out al Baghdadi. Trump's actions were
never those of an isolation or said. I will say,
some of the folks who are throwing rocks attacking the president,
attacking the president saying President Trump is not America first,
because he's supporting Israel and standing up and stopping Iran
(10:40):
from getting nuclear weapons, I will say. The President had
an interview in The Atlantic where here's what he said.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, considering that I'm the one that developed America first,
and considering that the term wasn't used until I came along,
I think I'm the one that decides that for those
people who say they want peace, you can't have peace
if Iran has a nuclear weapon. So for all those
wonderful people who don't want to do anything about Iran
having a nuclear weapon, that's not peace. I got to
(11:10):
say I agree with President Trump. He is exactly right,
and America first means peace through strength and stopping Iran
from getting a nuclear weapon keeps us out of war.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
How close do you think we really were? And that's
one of the questions I've been asked. If I've been
asked at once, it's a hundred times to dealing with
the real possibility of a nuclear Iran or an Iran
that was willing to go after Israel the way that
Israel has described it, it was way closer than it
should have ever been.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Well, that's right, and I'll tell you what you should
listen to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Att and Yahoo when
he explains what their intelligence showed here, give a listen.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
You know, I just want to press you on the
intel on the nuclear part. Less than two months ago,
the new Director of National Intelligence, Tulsa Gabbert, testified on
Capitol Hill, saying that everything had been suspended since two
thousand and three and had not restarted. That the nuclear
program had not been restarted by the Iranians. So did
something change from end of March until this week? Was
(12:12):
the US intel wrong?
Speaker 6 (12:14):
The intel we got and we shared with the United
States was absolutely clear, was absolutely clear that they were
working in a secret plan to weaponize the uranium. They
were marching very quickly. They would achieve a test device
and possibly an initial device within months and certainly less
than a year. That was the intel we shared with
(12:36):
the United States. I think we have excellent intel in Iran.
I think we've proven that, and that is something that
we couldn't possibly accept, whether it would be six months
or twelve months or thirteen months as immateial. Once they'd
go that route, it's too late, and we will not
have a second holocaust, a nuclear holocaust. We already had
(12:56):
one in the previous century. The Jewish state is not
going to have the Locaust admitted on the Jewish people.
It's not going to happen. It's never again, is now,
and we have to act now.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Senator.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
The idea of a nuclear holocaust the way that he
just described it is one that I think everyone should
just step back and really think about. And then there's
this second aspect of this, which is, if there's any
foreign policy doctrine that has been very clear in the world,
it is Iran saying that they want to destroy Israel
(13:28):
from the river the sea, death to Israel. It is
their foreign policy. It is clear. They're not lying about it.
Believe them when they say they want to annihilate Israel.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Well, and look the Ayatola.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
The Islamic result revolution in Iran succeeded in nineteen seventy nine,
and the Iranian regime since that time has been the
number one state sponsor of terrorism in the world. The
Ayatola has paid for Hamas provides. Iran provide over ninety
percent of the funding for AMAS, over ninety percent of
the funding for Hespola. They fund terrorists who murder Israelis.
(14:06):
They found terrorists who murder Americans. General Solimani, who Trump
took out in the first term, was directly responsible for
the murder of over six hundred American service men and women.
And to give you a sense of the level of
hatred from from the Iranian radicals, and I want to
(14:27):
draw a distinction between the theocratic zealots. That that is
is the Ayatola and the Malas versus the Iranian people. Look,
the people of Iran before the revolution, Iran was a
relatively secular country. They were an ally of America. That
they were in many senses pro America. And it was
the radical Jihadis that took it over, that that twisted it.
(14:50):
And they've been horrible to the people of Iran. And
so I think there are a great many people in
Iran who yearn to be free from from these theocratic
lunatics who've dominated the and who engage in torture and
murder and suppression of their own citizens. But the former
here's an amazing fact, the former head of the Iranian
(15:12):
nuclear program, who has some time ago gone to meet
his maker, and many say at the hands of the Massad,
the Israeli intelligence services. He had written in his last
will and testament that he wanted the following words written
on his tombstone. Here lies a man who sought to
(15:36):
annihilate Israel. Now, Ben, what kind of level of bilious
hate do you have when the only thing you want
to be remembered for is I am a bigot and
an anti Semite. And I want to murder as many
Jews as possible. That's the sum total of my life.
And listen, this is where a lot of Democrats and
(15:59):
and and a lot of folks who are isolationists, they say, well,
what business is it of ours if Iran has a
nuclear weapon. I believe if the Ayatola had a nuclear weapon,
the odds are unacceptably high that he would use that
nuclear weapon. And I want to draw contrast to North Korea. Look,
(16:21):
Kim Jong un, dictator of North Korea, has a significant
nuclear arsenal that was a result of catastrophic policy mistakes,
most notably by Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton went to Kim
Jong UN's father, Kim Jong Il, and said, hey, let's
cut a deal with you. We'll flow tens of billions
of dollars for you in exchange for you promising not
(16:42):
to make nuclear weapons. And Kim Jong il said, hey,
great idea. I'll take your deal. And he took the
tens of billions of dollars and he used them to
develop nuclear weapons. And so now we've got a crackpok
dictator on the Korean peninsula with nuclear weapons that periodically
goes off and threatens to fire the nuclear weapons at America.
You know, Trump famously calls calls Kim Jong un rocketman.
(17:06):
The one thing that that is a very dangerous part
of the world because Kim Jong un is megale maniacal,
He's unpredictable. But but there is one thing we know,
which is that he values staying in power, and he
knows if God forbid, he ever used a nuclear weapon
that day his regime would be over. So hopefully you
(17:28):
can have some modicum of rational deterrence. Uh with Kim
Jong un. The problem with the Ayatola is he is
a theocratic zealot. He glories in death and suicide, and
so the Iyatola knows if he detonated a nuclear weapon.
He knows that that that his regime would instantly fall,
(17:51):
that massive Iranian deaths would would result. The problem is
if if he was able to murder millions of Jews
or millions of Americans, he just might be willing to
take that trade with religious zelotry. The ordinary cost benefit
analysis does not work, and so I think if he
(18:11):
had a nuclear weapon, we could find out for sure
with a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv or New York
or Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
There's Also another aspect of this, Iran is excellent at
using terrorist organizations. Yes, fund them, they give them, weaponry,
they train them. I mean, there are countless examples of
Iran using extremist groups. If they also got this technology,
there's what's the guarantee they wouldn't hand it over to
(18:42):
somebody like that.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, and look that's the problem. Do they have a
reliable ICBM that could carry a nuclear weapon from Iran
to Manhattan?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Probably not, although they're trying to develop them.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They have an ICBM program, and it's worth noting you
do not need an ICBM to get to Israel from Iran.
A ballistic missile is sufficient. An intercontinental ballistic missile is
designed to travel much further. One hundred percent of the
reason Iran has an ICBM program is to carry a
(19:15):
nuclear warhead to America. Israel's not the target of their ICBMs.
America is But I would note also they would not
need an ICBM to do it if they could get
it on a ship or a container and detonate it
in a port anywhere in America, or I'll tell you
one enormous risk, they could put it in a satellite
that is orbiting over say, the Eastern Seaboard and detonate
(19:38):
a nuclear weapon, which would set off an EMP and
take down the electrical grid. I'll tell you, I've seen
the projections. An EMP that took down the electrical grid
could result in, over time, millions of deaths in America.
That's the kind of vulnerability we're facing. And so my view,
President Trump is exactly right when he he says that's
(20:00):
not peace. We're not going to find out what a
world with an Iranian nuke is like. And I'll tell
you I spoke with President Trump this weekend and I
told him I thought he was doing a fantastic job,
and he was agreeing. He said, look, he gave I
ran every option to avoid this, and they didn't want to.
(20:21):
They wouldn't take a deal, they wouldn't agree to give
up their centrifuges. And I'll tell you what I told
the President.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I'm going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Said you talked to him this weekend, before this is
before and enduring, this is all this is happening.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, No, no, I talked to him. You and I are
talking right now. It is twelve twenty five am Sunday night,
Monday morning. I talked to him about two o'clock Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
All right, so you said that he said that he
offered him a deal. That's being just either just completely
disregarded by the media. Are severely underreported that he was
trying to get a deal done and they refused to
do it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's what the sixty day deadline was. He gave him
sixty days to cut a deal, and the deal had
to be complete dismantlement. And they basically told him go
jump in a lake. We don't want a deal, we
want a nuclear weapon. And so you know, Trump said,
all right, And I will say there were some early
reports from the administration that the administration didn't know anything
about it, and Trump very quickly corrected that and stead,
(21:20):
of course we do about it, which is exactly right.
And listen asking where does this go from here. I
don't see any outcome that results in American boots on
the ground. I don't see any outcome that results in
American soldiers fighting in Iran. What we're doing right now,
we're assisting the Israelis. We're assisting the Israelis in intel,
(21:43):
We're assisting the Israelis in surveillance. Israel Is engaged in
targeted military strikes within Iran. Iran is responding by firing
a barrage of ballistic missiles at Israel aimed at civilian targets.
So they're landing missiles in Tel Aviv. And I will say,
in terms of escalation, I'm worried that we will see
(22:05):
very significant casualties in Israel. I was speaking with a
friend of mine this evening whose mom is in Jerusalem
right now, and he said his mom, in five days
has gotten very little sleep because every night at two
at three in the morning, the sirens go off and
they have to rush to a bomb shelter. So he said,
she has not slept, slept very much for five days.
Because that's constantly happening. There is a real risk of
(22:27):
there've already been significant casualties, but they could be much higher.
And listen, the government of Israel knows that. But the
casualties from these missile strikes are are are relatively small
compared to the millions of Israelis who could die with
an Iranian nuclear attack. And and and so that's why
the government is acting to stop that. But I'll tell
(22:49):
you what I also said to the president. I said,
thank you in particular for making absolutely clear to Iran
the overwhelming consequences if they attack American servicemen and women.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
And yeah, that note that he put out there was
very clear because he's saying, hey, hey, we weren't involved
in this, and we're going to.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
State that clearly. This is Israel doing their thing.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
But if you think for a moment that you can
use us to justify attacking Americans anywhere in the world,
there will be hell to pay if you do that.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Look, I think if Iran carries out a significant strike
on American servicemen and women, then I think America, if
they think the bombs coming from Israel are bad, I
think they will face massive retaliation. And then that's called deterrence.
We want them not to strike our servicemen and women.
And by the way, that's the difference between Joe Biden,
(23:44):
who was so weak he couldn't deter anything. It helps
that our enemies are afraid of the commander in chief.
That's where actually in the debates about foreign policy, those
who argue for isolationism get it wrong, because if you're
so terrified to engage with your enemies that then you
(24:05):
end up causing more war.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I think Reagan was right.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I think Trump is right that when you're strong, when
you tell your enemies, if you attack and kill Americans,
your military leaders are going to die. What happens is
most of the time they say, you know what, We're
just not going to attack, and you end up avoiding
war because they're scared of the commander in chief.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
So where does this go from here?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
And this is where everybody's saying, Hey, look, we want
an off ramp, right, like, that's something we do want.
We want this, we want to protect lives. But at
the same time, Israel is I think making it very
clear we have no choice but to do this, and
we're doing the world a huge service by doing it.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, So the Israeli government is talking on a time
frame that this could last another week or two. They're
engaged in massive bombings and at some point, you know,
at some point the question is how much ordinance do
they have, how much capacity do they have to keep bombing,
and how many targets do they have.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I will say also.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
One of the most significant sites is Fordau. Now Fordau
is a nuclear bunker that is built into the side
of a mountain and it's built deliberately to make it
very difficult to strike, to carry out an airstrike, and
it's where much of their nuclear research is being conducted. Now,
(25:29):
there were reports on Sunday that Israel carried out a
strike at FORDAU, but at least based on publicly reported material,
Israel does not have sufficiently effective bunker buster bombs to
be able to take out the deep underground laboratories at FORDAU.
And so one of the open questions is, to the
(25:51):
best of my knowledge, the only military that has those
bombs is the United States. We have really big bunker
busters that are made to take out deep, deep underground
facilities like the ford Ale nuclear facilities, and so one
open question I have for a long time called for
the United States to make those bunker busters available to Israel.
(26:12):
I think taking out ford Ale makes a lot of sense.
I think if Israel does it. And by the way,
I'll point out, look, Israel is a small country. Israel
is about the size of the state of New Jersey.
And they are fighting against our enemies, our enemies who
a pledge they want to murder us, and they're doing
so at great risk to themselves. But but and so
(26:34):
that is something to be grateful for but understand they're
taking out Around's nuclear capabilities is very very good for
America because it makes America safer. And I think if
Israel finishes the job of taking out their nuclear capability,
I think this these attacks likely end within the next
(26:54):
couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You look at Donald Trump saying we can probably get
a deal done. Is that after we accomplish the mission.
If you're reading between the lines here, I mean you've
spoken with them. Is this a that we got to
allow our ally Israel to do what they need to
do in that timeframe as well?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So listen, I'm skeptical that Iran will ever ever cut
a real deal. I don't think you can negotiate with
crazy and I think these people are crazy.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
And and so.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I think one of the things that would enhance American
security massively is to see the Iyatola fall and to
see the Mullas lose power, to see different leadership come
to come to Iran. I think that would make Israel
much much safer. I think that would make America much safer,
and I think that would make the Iranian people better off. Now,
let me be clear, I'm not advocating that we send
(27:47):
in a bunch of American soldiers to make that happen.
I am advocating that we use maximum pressure and economic
sanctions to pressure the regime in a way that might
encourage this regime to fall, because I think that they
have demonstrated that they are are homicidal and murderously directing
(28:08):
their urges towards killing Americans, and so removing people from
power who are trying to kill Americans makes America safer.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well me also go back to something you mentioned earlier,
and this seems to clearly be part of Israel's strategy,
which is you go after and take out people that
are in essence holding down the people and silencing the
people in Iran in the leadership roles. That's part of
who they seem to be going after. That could be
huge for allowing what you just described actually happen a
(28:38):
revolution within Israel, or I should say within Iran.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Well and listen.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
One of the conscious choices that it appears that Israel
made was not to target the Iatola himself. And I
don't have I have no classify information any way. Yeah, wow,
so I's that out of curacy, So I don't know
for sure. I have no classified information on this. But
I can give an educator guess, which is that taking
(29:02):
out the leader of a country through military force is
a significant step. Now, mind you, the Iyatola is perfectly
fine hiring Hittman to try to murder Donald Trump. So
the Iyatola has no problem doing it. And I have
no doubt that if the Iatola could could murder Prime
Minister net and Yahoo, he would do so in the
blink of an eye.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
He has not been able to do so.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
But I think the Israelis, given their success and taking
out everyone else, I think it's reasonable to assume that
they would have had a real prospect of taking the
Iatola out had they chosen to do so. My guess
is that they made a decision that taking out the
leader of the country could backfire, especially given that he
is also a religious leader, and you run into a
(29:46):
danger of potentially making him a martyr, and and and
it is not clear if you toppled him in those
circumstances you might get a younger, theocratic lunatic takeover instead.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And so I think it is a reasonable decision for
Israel to say, rather than target the Ayatola directly, let's
take out every one of their top military officers that
they would use to prosecute a war. And by the way,
those are the same people they use to push down
and uprising to oppress their people and so degrading their capabilities.
(30:22):
It's what they've done with HESBLA, They've taken out their
top leadership.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It's what they've done. It's what they've done with Hamas.
And I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
On Saturday, Israel conducted a strike in Yemen, killing the
Huthi Chief of Staff Muhammad Abdul Karim al Gamari, who
was responsible for overseeing Huthi military operations and directing the
procurement and deployment of a number of weapons systems for them.
(30:50):
The Huthis are another arm of Iran, and so what
Israel has done is weakened Iran on every front, and
that oppressive infrastructure, their ability to wage war, their ability
to kill Israelis, their ability to kill Americans, their ability
to fund terrorism, and their ability to suppress their people,
all of those are substantially weakened.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
That's a very good thing.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Final question for you on this as we move forward
through this week. I think it's pretty obvious the media's
obsessed with Donald Trump, somehow not standing with Israel or
trying to drive a wedge. Do you think there's any
chance at all that can happen, because in the early
questions it was almost like, you guys are idiots.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I think President Trump has been the strongest pro Israel
president in the history of America. It's an exact contrast
with Joe Biden. Joe Biden was the most anti Israel
president in the history of America. The fact that they
occurred back and back, you want to talk about about whiplash.
You'll recall we did this podcast on when Bbe came
(31:55):
to Washington and I met with him for about two hours.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
He is a good friend.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I have not spoken to bb since this war broke out,
although I did speak with the Israeli ambassador to the
United States on Thursday night, the night the war began.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Uh and and and listen.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Their successes are significant, but but they they have the
complete backing of of of the Trump administration, and that
is important. I do think that there are some voices
within the administration that are pressing back and and and
part of the reason I talked to to President Trump
today was to say, what you're doing is exactly right.
(32:33):
You're making America safer by allowing Israel to take out
Iran's nukes, and you're also protecting American servicemen and women.
Keep doing it, and and and he he agreed emphatically.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Don't forget.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
We did a show Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Hit that
subscribe or auto download button so you do not miss
an episode as we take you behind the scenes, even
these conversations with President Trump as well. Uh so make
sure you do that. Please share this podcast on social
media as well. And also so you can now listen
to the show on YouTube, so it makes sure you
subscribe to our YouTube channel and the Center.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I will see you back here on Wednesday morning.
Host
Ben Ferguson
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