3110: A Discussion of Black Capitalists w/ Rachel Laryea

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I listened to The Black Guy Who Tips podcast because
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And in addition to that, you can come to our
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watch us record live and get to meet these great
guests and play the games and all the stuff that
we do here. Speaking of great guests, today's guest is
the author of Black Capitalists, A Blueprint for what is Possible,
Doctor Rachel Loria.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hey, what's going on? How you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Hey? Thanks so much for having me. Happy Sunday.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh no, happy Sunday to you as well. What made
you interested in Black Capitalists as a focal point to
write a book about.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, it's a good question. So I have been interested
in this topic and really in the topic of brace
and money and capitalism ever since I was a kid.
I just had different language for it at that time.
And when I was a child, I think every correlation
that I saw to well and economic thriving was associated

(02:02):
with whiteness. It was the case that I grew up
in these spaces of privilege, but never felt like I
had authority in them myself. So, for example, my mother,
who immigrated to the US from Ghana, where she was
born and raised, was able to buy her own home
in the US through an affordable housing program where she

(02:25):
won a lottery that gave her access to do so,
and that home was located in one of the wealthiest
counties in Northern Virginia, where I grew up, and so
I would see these kind of nuclear white families with
the dog, the white picket fences, you know, the over
zealous parent, teachers, associations, all of that. But I was
having a very different experience being part of that community

(02:48):
in it, but not really of it. And then fast forward,
you know, I went to an all girls college prep
school that cost sixty thousand dollars a year to go to,
and I was on a full ride scholarship, and so
again I was seeing these expressions and displays of wealth
that were so often associated with whiteness. It got me
just wondering and thinking, man like, what does it look

(03:10):
like to be black and wealthy? And what is the
cost in order to achieve that or have that kind
of experience. And so by the time I was in college,
which I did ATU, when I was studying so much
of black studies, critical race theory, the black radical tradition,
I had this kind of trajectory of what I was

(03:32):
going to do. I wanted to go to grad school,
but I just so happened to get recruited by Goldman Sachs.
And at that time I didn't know anything about investing,
about finance, and it was really at the behest of
my older brother who said, you should just try this out,
see what they're talking about when it comes to an
internship at the firm, because it might change your life.

(03:54):
And so sure enough I interned ultimately work there full time,
and it was while I was at that I saw
how black people were participating in capitalism in ways that
were complicated, that were nuanced, and really kind of ruptured
for me everything that I knew growing up about that
kind of a correlation I met before around wealth and whiteness,

(04:16):
and so to see how people could be both critical
of an economic system for good reason because capitalism produces
all these harms that were so familiar with, but that
to then use the tools of capitalism and service of
themselves and service of their communities in a way that
was indicative of social good felt really nuanced to me,

(04:37):
and that's what really got me excited to pursue this formally,
go to grad school, build a whole research study around this,
and then ultimately the book as well. And so it
really started for my own kind of internal wonderings as
a kid around race and money, and then it showed
up in this way as a book years after.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
It sounds like you were a first generation from born
in America, Like from your line, that experience is a
little different than people that are born and raised here.
Whenever you talk to people about this, how do black
people from America respond to you talking about this?

Speaker 5 (05:15):
And how do.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Black people kind of from your culture, from the old
degeneration respond to It's going to different cultures have different
experiences kind of back and forth and their own biases
on both sides. And I know sometimes the language is
not the same, even though in reality we're all in
the same boat. But people kind of view it different
based on that, oh for sure.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
And I think one of the ways that's kind of
crystallized was and I'll tell you a story. Two years
into my doctoral program at Yale, all students are responsible
for giving what they call a perspectus where you kind
of go up on stage you tell all the folks,
especially in the African American Studies department at Yale, what
you're going to research, what you're going to study about,

(05:56):
and how you're going to do it. And so I said,
you know, I'm going to be studying black capitalists throughout
the Transatlantic financial industry. Given my experiences at Goldman. And
after my presentation, one of my Black American colleagues, who
also pursue her PhD, a brilliant scholar, she raised her
hand and she said, black capitalists don't exist. She said,

(06:18):
at best, they can be black financiers, but they can't
be capitalists. And what she was saying was really kind
of invoking this larger critique about the legacy and the
creation of American capitalism and its unique kind of application
within the black community born and raised in America. Because

(06:40):
the idea of being a black capitalist, regardless of the
fact that I define it anew, regardless of the fact
that I define black capitalism in you, it creates this
kind of trouble in mind when you're suggesting this idea
of like, how can you adopt an economic system whereby
we were the laborers of it, are kind of ancestors,
were the laborers, but we never got to be the

(07:01):
beneficiaries of it. And so it creates this really particular
tension that makes even this conversation that I'm wanting to
have in this way in which I'm wanting us to
think about things difficult to have. And so I make
a lot of space for that and I acknowledge the
kind of the tensions based on where we sit geographically

(07:21):
and the kind of migration patterns that we have, because
you did say, while we were all in the same boat,
there are nuances to our different experiences, and so we
have to make space for that, because I think too
for the immigrant experience, my mom's experience, and even mine
as a kind of byproduct of that, My relationship to

(07:42):
capitalism has its differences because I don't have that kind
of historical legacy that my Black American peers, brothers and
sisters might have, And so all of that gets accounted
for as we think about Okay, we know the capitalism
that we exist in today is extractive, it's exploitative, it's harmful.

(08:03):
But we also know that there are more black millionaires
in this country than there have ever been. We also
know that capitalism isn't getting dismantled tomorrow, and so how
do we move from this moment into a more liberatory
one and what are the tools in which we're going
to use in this moment to get us to that place.

(08:23):
It's not about saying capitalism is good or bad. It's
about recognizing the reality of things and using the tools
available to us working in community in order to kind
of get to that more liberatory future. And so that's
really the offering that I have in this book and
acknowledging all of the nuances the differences, even though there's

(08:44):
still opportunity for us to move with one unified voice
and with unified action.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, I really like when the PR person reached out
about this interview, I said, yes so fast, because we
talk about this on our show a lot, just in general,
because I do find that, like some of the flattening
of our conversations via social media, it loses a lot
of nuance, right, and so it just becomes like X

(09:13):
person is bad, this person is good, or this this
system is so bad that nothing good can come of it,
you know. And I do understand those things, But at
least in my experience, I feel like black people navigate
capitalism differently as a whole, because we've been the capital
in America, so we have, like even a lot of

(09:35):
the people that are defined as black capitalists in America,
it seems like it's more about how much wealth they've
managed to either accumulate or be responsible for, which I
think is another like misnomer. People often look at like, oh,
so and so's a billionaire. It's like their evaluation is
that of a billionaire. It's not necessarily the same. Like

(09:57):
if you ask them to go get a billion dollars
at the bank, they can't, but it doesn't mean they're
not rich or whatever. But the way that people get
their money in the black community, a lot of times
I feel like they get lumped in the same as
like you know, an Elon Musk or somebody, And I'm like,
to me, those are two different paths to getting money,

(10:20):
and especially when you don't really own like the means
of production. A lot of times Black people get they
make money off of I'm talented and people want to
see my talent, so therefore I've earned this money. But
there's a person even above that. You know, there's a
like Beyonce is a billionaire. I don't even I don't
even know who owns Ticketmaster, but I got a feeling

(10:41):
that the person that owns Ticketmaster is probably clocking even
more right. Lebron James will eventually be a billionaire if
he's not already, But the people that own the teams
that he plays for all have more money than him.
So how would you define like capitalism and in mass
versus like black capitalism in your.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Opinion, yes, and so that's why definitions are so important.
I love that you asked that question. I think it's
important to recognize capitalism as just first and foremost an
economic system whereby private actors engage in order to create
excess capital for themselves. Well, to be a black capitalist,

(11:27):
as I define it, is to be a person who
identifies as a black person and repositions themselves within the
economic system in order to create social good. So this
is drastically different than what we understand capitalism to be
because that's about profitability, it's about output, Whereas to be

(11:49):
a black capitalist, it's about how do you reposition yourself
in the economic system strategically while also creating social good.
It's like securing the bag, securing the people. They go
one in hand, hand in hand. Then to practice black capitalism,
it's the same thing. The only difference is it's race agnostic.
So this is any individual or collective that does that

(12:11):
work of repositioning themselves in order to create social good.
And I think when it comes to the black community,
even how we get our money, how we get access
to capital, it's very much more communal forward because of
lack of access we get in other kind of structures
or systems, and so we have to look inwards in
order to kind of really build the resources monetary, human capitals,

(12:34):
social capital, etc. In order to create new avenues for
ownership for ourselves. And so that's the definition that I
have for a black capitalists and for black capitalism, which
again is very different than kind of the capitalism that
we know and what it nurtures, which is a scarcity mindset, individualism, exploitation.

(12:56):
But I do believe and there's evidence for how you
can build and be invested in sustainable and scalable businesses
and manners of just behaving in the economic system, we're
able to create that access in capital while also making
sure that it's not coming at the consequence of exploiting

(13:17):
other people in the process of it.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Yeah, I have one hundred percent agree. Me and Roger
we kind of have the same philosophy on this, not
all because there's always inceptions to the rules, but most
wealthy and quote unque slash and rich Black people give
back to their community in mass is more than any
other racial group like and a lot of times we

(13:41):
do it out of the love for our people, and
a lot of these people invest but they might not
their names are not always attached to a lot of
them want to do it privately because a lot of
times it's I don't want to say it's frowned upon,
but maybe the circles they're in, they might not, might
not want to be publicly associated with it and things
like that. Maybe they just want to kind of just
have their money flow and help the people and have

(14:02):
the people benefit from connection.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I remember when people were going hard on jay Z
and Beyonce because jay Z is like, you know, mister hustle,
Like everything felt is.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
A hustle for him.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Like it's like, how can we get some money out
of this? Like he's not showing up for free. He
raps about it, he tells you about it. It's not
like a secret for him. But even within his work,
like Rock Nation does so much charitable work. They do,
they do so much legal work for like inmates and
prison stuff. So like it's this weird amalgamation of like, yeah,

(14:36):
I'm trying to get to as much bread as possible,
but there's always like this idea of like but also
help out.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
The community or whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
But what I think was interesting is they were getting
it heavy, like right as Black Lives Matter started jumping off,
and then people found out not from them, but I
believe it was like the forget her name now, but
the woman who wrote like the Blueprint whatever the book
was that jay Z had, I forget what that author's

(15:03):
name is, but she went on Twitter and was like,
they bailed out all these people. They gave us the
funds to bail out the protesters who were arrested for
protesting for I think it was in maybe Minneapolis or something.
But the point being like they didn't promote that, they
didn't tell us that they didn't like leak that they

(15:24):
would have gone to their grades with many, many many
people being like, you rich sobs, you don't care about
our community. But clearly they do, and there's other work
they are public about what clearly they do. But I
definitely feel like that is a feature of a lot
of black people who make money, whether you call them

(15:46):
capitalists or you just call them black people that got rich.
Whichever way it is, it feels like there's a connection there,
and part of that I wonder, And I don't know
how much you wrote about this, but part of it
also wonders how much of it is just how recent
Black people get money, right, Like it's not necessarily generational wealth.

(16:06):
That is, Oh, this money's been in my family for
ten generations and it just got handed down to me.
Why would I feel a connection to some other black
person that doesn't have anything. Some of these stories are
like Beyonce is a first generation person that's rich. Jay
Z literally born into projects. Like so many of these stories,

(16:27):
it feels like in their lifetime they have seen poverty,
They've had connections to community in a way that almost
want to allow them to turn a blind eye to
the rest of us.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, And something I want to add to I think
further even create the nuance here is that it's a
particular identity to be a black capitalist, because one can
be a black person participating in capitalism, but that does
not mean you're invested in social good, right, because it
could be that you're actually reproducing the harms of capitalism,

(17:04):
and you can be just like colonizers, like oppressors, but
a black person doing it. And so to have a
kind of black capitalist orientation and identity, it's really about
saying and choosing that I'm going to move economically and
financially in a way that's going to not only you know,
secure economic thriving for myself, but also to do it

(17:27):
in a way that gives access to other people to
do it as well. And so that becomes an important
kind of fixture because you know, you mentioned jay Z
and Beyonce, and they get critiqued front back center, you know,
for them being who they are then having access to
resources and whatnot. But I think it's always important to

(17:47):
kind of keep in mind too this question of like
what does it really mean to be a black capitalist,
Like what does it mean to you as a kind
of point of distinction just participating capitalism, Because that question
of like am I producing harm and the behaviors that
I you know, pursue that becomes like the critical point
that we have to really examine. So I just wanted
to add that to just further layer on.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
And I'm just bringing them up because they're such prominent examples,
but like, there are so many black people that have money.
They don't they're not singers, you know what I mean,
They're not rappers.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
We don't know their.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Names necessarily, and similar things like I know, for me,
I had I was involved in in Roads when I
was a kid, this like program for academically talented black
youth to like try to get internships and all this stuff.
And I know, I met black people who had money,
who had resources, who had the jobs that you know,

(18:44):
all the stuff that you want as a kid when
you're like coming up and you're like, oh my god,
how do I be like you? And they were spending
their saturdays helping me, like you know, the help and
not just me, but all these black kids in that way.
And so I'm reading this book it's called Black Broadway
in Washington, DC, and it goes into a lot of

(19:06):
black history and stuff. And one of the things recently,
the part that I'm reading, talked about how right as
the Civil War was happening in America, black people were
fleeing the South. They were coming up to the North,
and for a lot of them to stop was Washington, DC.
Like they were like, this is we're calling this freedom
right right here.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
We're posting up and we ain't going back.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
So the things that got interesting for me was like,
so Jim Crow starts like almost like eight years after
the Civil War ends, and Jim Crow is of course
back to like, look, black people got to eat over here,
you got to live here.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
You can't do this, you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
And so even wealthy black people end up being basically
pushed out of out of money, like right, so like
your connections to whiteness, White banks from that, like their
banks are now just passing rules like we won't give
money black people.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
It's like, well, I started a business. I'm you know,
I'm good for it, like you're black.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Sorry, And so in a way, it made people for
the next one hundred years of Jim Crow to the
Civil Rights era with segregation and stuff, it made black
people have to be together like you didn't. So like
if you wanted to continue to own a black bank,
you now have one black customers and your and and

(20:27):
you don't have the ability to get a loan from whatever,
you know, the Chase family or whoever you you just
it's just you and the black people. And I wonder, like,
how did that affect our views on like what capitalism
for black people can be, because it almost by necessity,
by it almost necessitates you have to be community based

(20:53):
at that point, like I you know, in the last
fifty years, you kind of don't have to be but
like for a long period of time, even if you
word like an asshole, you had to be like, well,
the black people are the people that have to.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Rent from me, because those are the only people I
can rent too.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
So do you see those distinctions in still to this
day and like how different black people look at like
money and capitalism and acquiring wealth.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, for sure. And I think it shows up so visibly,
I think in the beliefs that so many of us
carry around capitalism, because it's hard to imagine being on
the winning side of something when we've been strategically and
systemically positioned to be on the losing side of it.

(21:42):
Because you know, when I talk to people, and I've
interviewed hundreds of people in the creation of this book,
people will say, when I ask them, how do you
define capitalism? They say, it's the root of all evil,
wall streets, the belly of the beast. Capitalism needs to
be dismantled. It has no kind of and again it's
not about positive or negative, but it just kind of

(22:02):
gets rooted in these kind of really visceral feelings about
whether it be informed by economic trauma in our generationally,
This idea that you kind of just can't break free
from debt or just even this kind of psychology around
money and the anxiety that we can have around money,
especially in the socio political climate that we're living in now.

(22:24):
And so I think it shows up and it becomes
why people might say, like, you know, capitalism, capital c
it's this big bad thing that it's just this engine
and we're just cogs in this engine and we're just
trying to get by and trying to maintain and it's
kind of disassociated from this sense of like agency or

(22:47):
sense of empowerment within it, but rather this thing that's
kind of happened to us and we're just trying to
survive in the midst of it. And that is a
very real reality. And I think it speaks to when structures,
structures that be that have created marginalized experiences for us,
where we have to tap into community in order to
pull resources together in order to just thrive in the

(23:09):
different ways and just meet our needs at a basic level.
It creates these negative associations to capitalism. But I think
it becomes then why the critiques are as they are.
As I've been talking with people and sharing this work,
it comes back to what one of my colleagues said
black capitalists don't exist the idea that okay. Rather than

(23:33):
to question capitalism itself and where we can embed agency
into our participation of it, rather we place limitations on
who we are within the context of capitalism and who
we can be within the context of it, because we
haven't seen a model whereby it could be different in

(23:54):
our relationship in it as a capitalist versus the laborer,
because we're always in that laborer modity position. So what
could it even look like for us to be agents
in the reproduction of capitalism with that communal mindset that
we've really had to have, like you spoke to abroad,
and so I think it shows up in the beliefs.
But what's so exciting to me is that if we

(24:16):
can open the aperture about what we believe and what
we can do because there's evidence for it and the
reality of this moment, then it also opens the aperture
for the behaviors that we can have within it and
create new outcomes that are more indicative of people's needs
being met, the most vulnerable populations being taken care of

(24:37):
and secured, And so I think that's the real opportunity.
But The conversation around capitalism and our participation and relationship
to it has been so informed by our history for
good reason. But I think there's so much room to
think about, how can it be informed by this moment
that we're living in and this kind of newness of
even having resources within the black community that feels so

(25:00):
new for people. It's a first generation experience even And
then how can we think about our relationship to capitalism
and a future facing kind of moment as you know,
more and more people get access to wealth for the
first time, build intergenerational wealth, even at a global scale,
not just in an American context.

Speaker 4 (25:20):
And I think for a lot of people, and for me,
I think I'm one of the kind of when you
go generational, I am better off than a lot of
my family members, like a lot of my older family members.
There's some family members that that I better off than me.
But when you're dealing with.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
This, it's very hard to give hope.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
To people in the system like this, because I think
the biggest thing is hope because you're coming to them
saying that it can change, and people going, well, how
can it change?

Speaker 5 (25:52):
When we had these cities and.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
They were burnt down we had our own shit the
things that people are telling them to do. What's they're
telling now? Like people felt like they have these brand
new ideas when they be like, have your own things,
It's like, well, we had it. They burnt it down
then they denied us. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, they burnt
the whole cities down. We had our own mayors and lawyers,
and they went to Wilmlington and killed us. So it's like,
it's very hard to convince people to have hope and

(26:17):
faith in something that has never showed them that it
would even support a.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
Wish or dream or hope. So how I'm not sure
for about how do you combat that?

Speaker 4 (26:29):
Like, like how do you reach somebody who has already
kind of predetermined, like you said, the persons, there's no
black capitalism. It's like, well, it actually is, like how
do you get these people to see what you're saying
is the truth? But it's hard to convince people that
the system can benefit them mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
H And that's where I think it has to That
conversation that I'm offering has to be situated in examples,
situated in like the practicality of how we can do
this and community and also the scalability of it, because yes,
we have those examples of where we have these isolated cities,

(27:08):
towns where black thriving was thriving right, and they were
systematically just dismantled. But I think what's unique, especially in
this moment, the proliferation of technology, the proliferation of just
how we're able to be so global even at the
local level and connected with one another. Social media has
transformed our ability to be in connection with each other.

(27:32):
And so there are all these elements that I think
add a level of nuance and newness to the conversation too.
And so, and I would also say the very fact
that we are still here as black people and still
persisting despite all of these calculated attempts to just rupture
our idea of joy, of happiness, of thriving, and yet

(27:56):
we are here. It's evidence to me that we still persist,
We see still try and on. That alone should give
us some of the bearing and taking heart to remember
that there's opportunity still yet to unlock despite the wreckage
that has been done against us. And I think the
way we really secure thriving for ourselves is really by

(28:19):
doing it together.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
And I worried that the like you said, the resignation
to no hope leads to this path of like and
then there's no real responsibility to the community because nothing
can be done anyway. So it's almost like why not
be resigned to this idea of like, this is how
we have to live. We're just manipulating, abusing, and taking

(28:41):
advantage of each other, because it just seems like it
very rarely leads to people doing the work of like, oh,
and then we're gonna find we're gonna get a commune
and we're gonna start trading chickens for a corn, like
we're gonna do this whole other thing. It's like, no,
it really just is like people being like it's not
gonna work, but I'm gonna just go to my job

(29:03):
and let what happens happen. One of the things I
think about too is obviously in America, you know, capitalism
is running muck, right, We've had the largest transfer wealth
to like this one percent of the population compared to
like what people make. You know what it used to
be like, oh, the CEO makes five times what the

(29:24):
lowest paid employee works or the media median employee, and
now it's like two.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Hundred and fifty times or whatever.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Right, So I think there's this obvious and justified anti
like billionaire sentiment, like this anti like dude like Elon
Musk is like renting our government, you know, Like I
get why people are like fat, and I think about
that often encapsulated in Bernie Sanders, right, this guy who

(29:50):
ran for office for president a couple It sounds.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Like you've been running for twelve years. But but one
of the things that to me is disappointed.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
For about Bernie Sanders is that he leaves out so
much of the marginalized issues that we experience that aren't
just about being angry at billionaires. Right, So, like, totally
get it billionaires, they're they're fucking up everything.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Got it, Bernie.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
But then when I'm like, oh, and also like they
got a bunch of racism and that's messing it up
for black folks, It's like, whoa, that's identity politics. Oh okay,
Well women don't really have access to this capital as well.
There's only like a small percentage of women that are
even able to be like CEOs of a company or something.
It's like, whoaa, stop that we're not talking about all that,

(30:39):
We're just talking. We're just staying angry at Bill Gates.
That's all we're doing. And I always wonder, like does
that hurt his long term message? And at this point
I have to imagine it's on purpose, Like what what
is he afraid of at this point? Because I do
think you could unify people around something where you're saying,

(31:00):
like to me, the biggest example was a housing crisis.
Right you had you had black people targeted by banks
to give balloon payment loans they were not going to
be able to afford. They get the house, then it
gets taken away from now they have a bunch of debt. Right.
It leads to like Wall Street having financial issues. It

(31:24):
leads to the largest bailout in American history, with Barack
Obama having to bail out Wall Street rather than have
the country experience financial ruin. And I've always felt like
that through line is such a perfect message for someone
like burning to be like, hey, it affects us all,
Like we should need to put some rains on this capitalism.
We need to get it in a way where, like

(31:46):
you said, almost like black capitalism for everybody, like a
communal way of spreading this wealth. And I feel like
that message is missed, and part of that is what
makes people give up hope and be like, it's this
is just what it is. We just have to like
go and experience it in this way. So is that
something that you've seen, like that that idea of like

(32:11):
the anger at rich people but not translating to any
action that we can do amongst ourselves.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Oh for sure, for sure. And I think that oftentimes too,
when I talk to people and they're critiquing people like
Jay Z or Beyonce, right, it becomes it's almost like
accounting of other people's wallets and what they have access to,

(32:40):
because it's a reflection and a reminder of what we
might not have access to, or we might not have
been able to have the opportunities and access in order
to you know, manifest those resources for ourselves. And I
think this is where so much excellent research around like
the psychology of money really shows up in some of

(33:02):
that economic trauma that some of us hold. Because this
kind of critique or even hate of billionaires and you know,
their practices of tax evasion and whatnot, it's really much
like just a stark reminder of how hard it is
for so many people that are just striving to just

(33:23):
make it. And meanwhile, you have, as you mentioned, people
who are making two hundred and fifty times their employee
base and making a joke of it or acting as
if this doesn't matter, or that there are not real
stakes for this. And so a lot of that critique
that you see, or just kind of the anger or
rage is really kind of rooted in the reality of

(33:47):
we are living wildly different lives, you know, that are
not even parallel to each other. But just how is
it that you know, people can be fighting just for
their basic needs to be met, whereas if this were
something society wanted to solve, it could be solved. And
I think that's what's the tragedy of it, is that
the idea and the problem of homelessness, of you know,

(34:11):
the housing crisis, et cetera, et cetera. These aren't that
big of you know, a nut to crack. We could
solve it. It's very simple reality that we've just decided
as a society that we don't care.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
It's so interesting because I remember the pandemic was such
a great example of this because people were working from
home then we had obviously all this empty office space
in so many cities, and you know, many people presented
like some of the most obvious solutions of like, hey,
why do we even have homelessness? We should house people

(34:45):
in these empty vacant buildings downtown. And the answer from
you know, the CEO type class was like, get your
ass back to work. That's what we really need is
y'all to come on in office in person. And I
think remote work gave access to a lot of people
to some of the privileges and luxuries that typically went

(35:08):
along to like, oh, this is the whitest of white
collar job. Yes, you don't have to come into work
every day. You can do if you can just like
tap in remotely, you can do that. It's not about
watching you like a hawk every second. And yet it's
like if you almost every single time they interviewed the
people who ran the business, they would be like, no,

(35:31):
that is not what this is about. This is about
y'all need to come your ass back in here and
coughing each other's faces because I'm paying for this office space.
What do you think about the target boycott because I
feel like that is a thing that black people are
finding power and it's like collective idea and it's not

(35:53):
just black people. I mean, they did away with a
lot of DEI stuff. So like LGBTQ people, people like
everybody that feels a way about them saying we are
divesting from the initiatives we started for most of these
companies after George Floyd was killed.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
Don't ask me why those two things are related. I'm
not sure.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
But they started investing in different communities and stuff, which
I thought was a good thing.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
You know at the time. I remember on our shew
being like, guys.

Speaker 5 (36:23):
This may not last forever, so get money.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Happen while you can.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, we've gone through this in history before the checkbooks
closed eventually.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
But if you can get something, go ahead and get
it now. But don't necessarily.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Believe that like a change has happened in the hearts
and minds of a corporation, because it is a corporation.

Speaker 5 (36:44):
When they're not people.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, they're responsible to shareholders, not necessary in their minds,
not necessarily responsible to communities. But like the Target boycott,
I feel like it's kind of renewed something as far
as like community, because before this, it really feels like
it's almost hard to get the community organized, right uh uh,

(37:07):
And in this case, it's a boycott, which I'm not.
It's not bad, Like I like that it's a boycott,
but it's not the same as consolidating around like supporting
black businesses and like lifting ourselves out in that way.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
But what are your thoughts on, you know, this.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Moment and how we define our power, even if in
a weird way. The power is buying into capitalism, right,
We're saying, here's our money, and we're gonna let our
money speak.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yes. I think that's that's the that's the magic word
power because I think that oftentimes people feel most powerful
in society when they're voting, and that's an experience that
doesn't come often. It comes every so often. But the
reality is is that we should feel power every single

(37:56):
day because of the fact that we hold money and
we create transactions and we create exchange and so the
reality is that we're voting every single day with where
we put our money. And I think what is exciting
to me about this moment is the unification that's happening,
the kind of communal efforts that are being drawn for

(38:19):
people to move with one voice. I think, especially when
it comes to conversations about money. The economy, capitalism. We
have been so bifurcated in the black community where you
be an anti capitalist, a socialist, a capitalist, what have you.
And so that's created this kind of like paralysis, I
think for us to be able to move with one

(38:41):
unified voice, when unified wallet about how we're going to
get through this moment that we're in. So I love
it for that regard. I think what's always important when
it comes to boycotting, because that's the positionality is one
of like consumerism, right, it's like, Okay, I'm going to
withhold until my demands can be met. So one it's

(39:02):
what are the demands and are we demanding things in
a way that's going to be sustainable in the long term.
It's not just about when you look at these institutions,
you know, when things are in vogue, what's the flavor
of the week, what's something that we can see as
like low hanging fruit to adjust now, but with the
intention to not create real systemic change in our organizations,

(39:22):
but to appease the consumer and the media so that
we can get them back and then just really kind
of exploit them in a way. And so I think
it's really important that the demands be sustainable in a
way that's going to create systemic change. And then also
I think what's really important while we're boycotting, a parallel

(39:43):
stream is also around how can we create channels for
greater ownership, because ideally we wouldn't be in a scenario
where we would be boycotting target first and foremost, we'd
rather have our own systems that are our operating and
in service of us, not exploiting us, that we can
turn to. And so I think it needs to be

(40:05):
a both ant. But in this moment where again the
majority of black people in this country, their positionality and
the relationship to capitalism is one from a consumerist standpoint,
and so if that's the case, it's like the demands
have to be in such a way that they're going
to be actionable, that they can be reported against, tracked against.

(40:29):
It's not just kind of airy hand wavy, you know, concepts,
but what is the actual bottom line around the different
demands that we have? And so I think that is
what points towards strategy kind of systemic thinking that will
create new outcomes in this bigger picture, and awareness of
the calvary isn't coming like it's all on us to

(40:50):
really address this, and so that piece around ownership is
so pivotal to the conversation as well.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, the target thing feels like such a throwback because
it is in this world where everyone's so increasingly divided,
even intra community wise. It's one of the few times
where like, I don't know black people that are like
defending targets, like I just like, it's just one of
the few times where like you can't find like even

(41:17):
like Tabitha Brown, who has her like livelihood tied up
in Target, well she does videos about it. It's not
a like, man, y'all need to go ahead and start shopping.
The Target's always like this. Okay, it is complicated, I understand. Listen, Okay,
So some people you can like maybe find their own
personal website and support them in that way. I'm not
telling y'all to do.

Speaker 5 (41:36):
Like.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
It's very much like of note that people seem to
be of like one mind. We were driving by Target
yesterday coming from the movies, and I just like, you know,
parked out front and just start judging the.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
People going in. But but like I did notice we
live on black side of town.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
There were no black people going in it was It
was kind of weird because like I was just joke
about noticing, but I was like legitimately looking like damn,
really like these these this bottom line they're reporting of
like we're losing money.

Speaker 5 (42:08):
It is real.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
And it's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Because I said this about the NFL and the Cavernet thing.
Is it a boycott?

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Are we just mad? Because I think both things are valid. Yes,
both things are valid.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
I'm not like, this is not to dismiss black people's emotions,
but like when you're mad, there's not really a thing
they can do that's gonna make you be Like time
to start supporting the NFL, Like you're gonna be mad
until you're not mad, whether that makes sense or not.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
And a boycott, as as as Rachel.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Said, you have these like trackable things when you have
like a bus boycott or something, it's like we need
these things met and then we'll all get back on
the bus.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
I don't know that there is a.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Demand from Target that where they're gonna meet that black
people are like and then we'll be back to Target.
This may be a more permanent situation or a trickling
of people coming back. We're like Okay, I was mad,
but it's been a year and I really like the
Rocks shampoo or whatever the fuck are you selling over there?

Speaker 3 (43:19):
Let me just go back.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
Yeah, And and to kind of piggyback on that, the
thing is the demand is to bring the DEI back,
like like I actually like it's people don't want to
admit that, but that's the demand and they are not
going to meet that right now.

Speaker 5 (43:34):
They're not going to meet that demand.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
So you're talking to Al Shopton isn't gonna mean anything,
because the thing is not only with black people mad
you When this first popped off, I seen latinos against this.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
I see like like it was the every every group
with a letter was.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Like and Target and another thing.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
You didn't get an influx of like white grievance people
you did, so you didn't even get like this new
income from people being like that's right, I said, get
ready to DEI and I'm gonna go buy twelve shirts
like they're like f Target too, because they were just
mad that they were even once again they weren't boycotting.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
They were mad.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
They were like, how dare you put like a shirt
for LGBTQ pride in your store, I will never shot
there again. So taking the shirt out didn't make those
people come back. They're like, if y'all, so now you're
just losing money in every direction.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Yes, And I personally think and think this.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
When the decision was made, they underestimated, truthfully, how many black,
brown and others would invest in money in Target, and
how much we actually love targeting, and how for some
people they only went there for certain products by women,
black whatever, like like they would would would go out
of their way.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Sometimes you end up like, man, that makes the target
joke really hit because that is how you know, how
we all had the same joke, like you go on
Target for this and then you end up with one
hundred dollars and stuff that that maybe that is how
it hurts so bad, is because I would go in
there for bevel shaving creams, yes, and I would be like, well, damn,
I guess I'll get a plate.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
And oh yeah, oh yeah, And that's true. Yeah I'm
in here for tap of the brown stuff. But because
the thing is Target, when people are going to Target,
they would have displays and their displays would be like
here is all but black shit, here is the black hairline.
Here like they would go out of their way to
promote here is the slight such a.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
I don't need an afro pit cutting board, but I
but if I'm gonna get one, I might as well
get it while I'm out here at Target.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
You know what I'm saying. I feel like, yeah, a
lot of that.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
I forget what they call that type of purchasing, but
that what discretionary purchasing. That has to be why these
numbers are so big, because even I didn't, I thought, like, man,
black people are mad, they're gonna lose some money. They
start importing to the shareholders like we are really losing money.
I'm like, damn that much. And it's just because I'm
sure everybody was like if I'm not getting the cutting board,

(46:03):
then I'm not getting the soap, and I'm not getting.

Speaker 5 (46:06):
Yes because because the thing onna lie.

Speaker 4 (46:08):
People used to joke about how they were going to
Target and you would leave out buying three and four
and five hundred dollars for shit.

Speaker 5 (46:13):
Like people joke, but they really would do that.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
And so all of a sudden, these people that would
go monthly or weekly, or these people that would go
like we're doing Women's month a certain time of the
year to kind of boost these sales for these things,
or they had special lines of things coming out. They
underestimated the buying power and now they do not know
what to do. And now everybody's looking crazy because they

(46:36):
do not know how to repair the damage. You guess
this rule was for federal shit. You are a public institution.
You did not have to opt to get your head
chopped off.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
With you d the last thing too on that is
I think also it's systemic in the fact that white
people are always underestimate the buying power of blackness.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
I don't know why you would think it.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
I truly cannot I mean, other than racism, I truly
can't understand.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
I remember Sony.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Their emails got hacked so like they had some leaks
come out, and the woman who ran Sony at the time.
One of the emails was her saying how they didn't
know if they should do a sequel to Denzel's Equalize
the franchise, which now has three movies, by the way,
has three of us at the time, she said, because
I don't think he has global appeal.

Speaker 5 (47:33):
And I was like, do you know the world is.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
More brown than white?

Speaker 5 (47:36):
Do you know that?

Speaker 2 (47:38):
And it's Denzel Washington, who's popular everywhere just for being
Denzel Washington. Like DIZITL Washington, low Ki might be one
of those people. You could just put his face as
the movie trailer and not even tell us the plot,
just be like Washington. Yeah, exactly, like Disnel Washington June second,
All right, I'm gonna be there. I don't know what

(47:58):
it's about, but he doing something. So anyway, my pride
was the limits racism or prejudice or whatever. It limits imaginations.
So I would imagine that target thought. Uh in all
these companies getting rid of d I mean, who really cares.
How much money could we possibly be making. We're probably
spending more money to do it, And then because a
charity here come, here, come the bottom line, it's like

(48:21):
it was profitable. All this stuff is profitable. Black Panther
being the number one movie of all time making all
that money, that's profit. It's not a charity. You didn't
donate money to UH to the UH to, to Ryan
Coogler like you. You invested money and then you got
more money than anything else.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
You were doing at the time.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
And yet somehow it feels like those profits Immediately, it's
like memory hold and it's like, all right, back to
just black people don't aren't worth catering to.

Speaker 5 (48:50):
Yeah, And one more thing.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
The thing is when you talk about how they always underestimating,
shocked and surprise, it amazes me how racism consistently reboots
that brings when it comes to movies, because now it's sinners,
but it was other movies.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
Right, we have these other movies.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Every black person, every black person I know, is like,
when the movie coming out, we're going to see it,
to see it in Imax for fucking forty dollars or whatever.
Everybody going to see it, white white Hollywood is Wow.

Speaker 5 (49:19):
It made money.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
I can't believe it.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
This is insane, Like, we have so much power in
our economic life, but they're.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
Always a shock. And that's the part I don't get.
Why is it always a fucking shock?

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Rachel, Let me ask you.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
This is the current administration, Like having these people in charge,
does that do you think that makes things more difficult
or does it give people like a unifying thing to
rally against and come together? Like how do you feel
that will affect, you know, capital in the black community.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, I think I don't know how it will, But
how I hope it will is definitely towards unification, because
I think we are seeing in the most clear way,
there's no there are no two ways about it, that
they are not for us. You know, all that we're
seeing in terms of the political upheaval, all of the

(50:14):
kind of targeted ways to roll back Dee and I
and anything in the service of aquitable is disproportionately harming
and affecting us. And so in such a time as
this community and really kind of anchoring and you know,
getting together in a way to create solutions because we
can't find them outside of ourselves. And so I think

(50:36):
the hope I have is that just the reality of that,
because I think in past times, past administrations, it wasn't
so in your face, whereas now I think on the
second past and this Trump administration, the onus is really
on us to create.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
They arrested Cavy Lane, detained him for a little bit
in Las Vegas. Immigration did for like and I saw
that right where he came on the air. I'm like,
that man is one of the most famous people on
the fucking planet. And not even like his voice. I
don't know what he sounds like. He like mister Bean
to me, I still don't know what.

Speaker 5 (51:10):
Oh that's a TikTok dude that don't say nothing. Oh yeah,
I know who he is, he don't. I don't not
know what that man sounds like Loki.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I do wonder it's fucked up. But if they arrested him,
did he do the thing when they was like, you know,
come with us. If he was like we need to speak,
like sir, stop doing the thing, He's like, I'm not.
I really want to know what the fun y'all doing.
But yet, like I do feel like that stuff it
is so aggressive right now, and it leads people to

(51:39):
community because I think that's what gets us through. Uh
you know, not uh, not judging anybody, but I feel
like when we see a lot of the protests now
and they be very monochromatic, it's not it's not looking
a lot DEI to protest because some of us are like,
we're just doing things for us, us right now, and

(52:01):
y'all gotta you know, y'all go out there, get arrested,
y'all go out there in march, make you cute.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
Signs like we're not knocking you for doing like go
do it just under the long fight.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Yeah, but just understand that I feel like black people
are kind of coalescing around each other right now.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Yes, and so that and in a way it does
give me hope.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
But it is sad that it would take these circumstances
for that to happen, because it feels like something that
should and could happen under any administration, under any in
any direction.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
But yeah, I hope that stays.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, but and I think that the moment that we're in,
the climate that we're in, it's kind of spurring us
into kind of communal behaviors and mindset. The hope then
becomes and the question is, okay, well, what are the
kind of tactics, what are the strategies that we're going
to implement, because it's not just then to be looking
towards each other. It's like, okay, how do then we

(52:57):
create the foundations and the kind of blueprint for how
we're going to get through these four years but long
past that, because again we are seeing it's like the
Bandai's been ripped off, you know, the reality of it.
So let's get together, let's think through the strategies that's
going to really sustain us into again, as I mentioned
at the top of this call, what's going to be

(53:18):
more liberatory, more equitable for all of us?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Yeah, And it's like, honestly, low key the easiest time
to tell who's not for the rest of the people.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
Yeah, because they stand out, and they stand out hard
right now, Like when you're looking more they could kind
of blend in with the mixed naw you king when.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
You're looking at the like Black History celebration at the
White House and it's like tiger Woods and.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Like you know these and you're like, okay, all right,
you picked a side.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Thank you for letting us know. Good luck over there.
Nobody doesn't work out well. Uh, but you know those
that felt that, you know, you could use our community
as a covering, like to be like, I'm here because
black people love You're like, that's not true. Well I'm
black and I love them. It's like, well, good luck

(54:05):
with that, as long as you don't come over here.
But I also did want to ask you about I
hope I'm saying it's like, is it KILLI wheeya kela wail,
Oh my god, That's what I wanted to say.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
But I listened to somewhere and interview you, and they
said Killy Willy.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
And I was like, I guess I'm wrong, but now
can you tell us about that, like, and are you
still like doing this that whole lifestyle brand and all that.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Yeah, So color Welle long Before is the name of
my business. It's actually the name of a popular ganaan
street food and it's basically, you take wright plantains, you
dice it up, you coat it in spices, namely ginger
that's like the star ingredient aside from the plantains, and
then you fry up to golden perfection and you typically
see it enjoyed with groundnuts, which is like peanuts basically.

(54:57):
And I loved it growing up as a kid. My
mom would make it for and so that was the
beginning of what I call my plantain love story, because
over the years, plantains grew more and more significance for me.
Fast forward to when I was in college. You know,
I was at NYU, just like zero money to my name,
just trying to get through college, pay for bills, whatever.

(55:19):
And I was also transitioning into a plant based diet
at that time, and so I was trying to figure out, okay,
like what's affordable because a lot of vegan food is
very expensive, yes, and so you know, and so I
was like, Okay, what can I eat that's going to
meet my budget? And I kind of have this like
aha moment of like plantains because you know, at that
time they've gotten more expensive, but at that time could

(55:39):
get like four for a dollar in my neighborhood and so,
and they were a dairy and meat substitute for me.
And so I started just like eating them again, making
all these different dishes. And then fast forward to when
I was in grad school. I did my doctorate in
anthropology in African American cities, but in anthropostology specifically, we're

(56:01):
always kind of concerned with this question of culture. How
do we create culture, how's it sustained? How do people
you know, derive identity by the cultural practices they participate in?
And I had another Aha moment of thinking about food
as a medium to understanding culture. Because I can be
West African, the next person can be from Latin America,

(56:23):
the next person from the Caribbean. Plantains show up in
the culinary diet across the diaspora. We might be preparing
it differently. We might be making mofungo kelo la, whatever
the dishes maduros, but we're all eating plantains, and so
I loved it as a way to think about connectivity
and community making with this flavor and kind of added

(56:45):
concept around innovation, because, as I said, vegan food is
very expensive, but oftentimes when I go to the grocery
store and look at the vegan aisle, nothing was resonating
with me culturally. And so I wanted to build a
business that, you know, that kind of cultural familiarity, but
then also gave you some creative and innovation because Okay,

(57:07):
we can all eat plantains, but have you ever had
a plantain chocolate chip cookie before? You might not have,
you know, And so I wanted to build a business
kind of around that kind of ideation. And so I
launched it in twenty eighteen. And I started first it
was very grassroots. I was doing festivals and pop ups.
I'm based in Bedstye, and so it was really in
the neighborhood and community here, and then scaled to have

(57:30):
a brick and mortar in downtown Brooklyn. I also had
to stand at the Barclay Center shortly thereafter as well,
And so I was doing all that and really asking
myself those kind of core questions when I think about
what it even means to practice black capitalism now that
I'm a business owner, It's like, how do I build
a business where the people who make up my team

(57:51):
are happy to work, you know, at Kelliwilite, and that
they feel valued for their intrinsic value as people about
just you know, the products that they create and the
output that they create. And so asking myself these questions
because if I'm just here, you know, practicing capitalism, I'm
thinking about how do I squeeze those margins? How do

(58:14):
I get the most out of my team and pay
them well but rather put that money in my pocket.
Those aren't the questions, right, It's rather how can I
make sure I could create a sense of equilibrium and balance,
you know, while still running a business and having a
strategy around that, but also making sure and prioritizing the people.

(58:35):
And so that kind of became so much of my
journey as I thought about black capitalism and relations to
entrepreneurship and Kali Weally, this thing that, like I said,
has been my planting love story. And so now I've
transitioned back into industry. So I work at JPMorgan Chase,
but the business Kaliwally still exists. I do e commerce
now as well as wholesale distribution, so we've got a

(58:56):
couple of cafes in New York that carry our products
as well.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Yeah, that's so interesting too, because I.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
It reminds me of the thing that made like to me, like,
we have a segment on our show called black Capitalism.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Maybe we'll do we'll do that, we'll play that game
in a second.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
But oh, the thing that made it so funny to
me was this idea of like black people are like,
we're fine, we're community based, we got a business, We're
doing our thing, and I don't know what the number is,
but there's like a number you hit and then our
minds switched online into like they're somewhere in the back
of the room going how do I.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Squeeze the money out of my fellow coworkers.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
In the community, Moore, Like most of us don't function
like that, you know, and for a lot of people
depend on this situation.

Speaker 5 (59:42):
It was like I will take a pay cut before
I an impact.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
It's just so interesting thing to.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Me to be like good, good, good, good good evil,
Like I'm just like what your number, Like, did they
doss that line. They like, it's one thing to do
a thing, like any any person of any race, gender
orientation can do something and messed up Like I'm not
saying like we need to defend people who abuse people,
but it is so interesting to just magically arrive at

(01:00:08):
They must be a bad person.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
It's just how else you made.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
One dollar too much? All of a sudden you changed.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Yeah, every day I'm looking at my bank account like.

Speaker 5 (01:00:17):
Close right, I don't know what the number is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Let me give a little bit away.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
But so we have a segment called Black Capitalism, and
it has a song and everything, and I would like
to do, you know, a little black capitalism with you.
If that's okay, We're just gonna highlight a black capitalist.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Let me pull up the song, the short version of it.
All right, here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
You may be able to hear the song. It may
sound choppy, ill to know, but it's only thirty eight seconds.
So we'll be right back.

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
Will Smith.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
He y'all talking.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
But the only thing I'm listening to is that page.

Speaker 6 (01:00:54):
Every day we get into that patage. I hear the
money talk to set that pay. I hear the money
tuk to scene later.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
All right, Black capitalism.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Today, we're highlighting LSU star flaw J Johnson, who plays basketball. Okay,
she also wraps by the way, and you know what
the college basketball now they have the nil deal, so
you can actually make money off of brand deals while
you're in school, right, Okay. So she teams up with

(01:01:45):
Experience to wipe out five million dollars in debt for
Louisiana family.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
Go ahead. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
So she's she's a spokesperson for this initiative that will
benefit five thousand families in the state. She's a strong
she's a junior business major and her she's a strong
advocate for financial literacy.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
She said, you know what's bigger than basketball, Financial empowerment.
She says in the new commercial finances are tough, and
Experience is helping the next generation pursue their dreams. That's
why I'm excited to announce Experience is wiping out five
million of debt for the families in Louisiana. Money isn't everything,
but you needed to live a good life. The Experience
app can help you save time and money, build your credit,
and help you gain more knowledge in finances.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
So, yeah, it was it was.

Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Shout out to her because not funny.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
We the only people that's gonna actually come to come
to them with these ideas in the first place. And
so the company not on fundy wouldn't have thought about
this in their own And this is one of the,
if not real close to one of the poorest states
in the country now, and she's like, Hey, I'm giving
y'all a chance, you know, your family, a chance where

(01:02:56):
y'all can get out here and create some financial wealth.
Because the thing is, once you get into debt, it
is very hard. It takes decades sometimes generations to get
out of that debt.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
The other thing that it makes me think about, she's
twenty one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
To be me thinking like this at twenty one, Yes,
at twenty one, because I'm be real like if they
came to me it was like, hey, we want to
brand deal, have much money.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
I'm like, whatever y'all want me to say, I'll experience.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
It's the best to even be like, Yo, how does
this help the community that I play basketball in that
is a very black state.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
For the record, like Louisiana Alabama.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Even though people can think of them as conservative red states,
they're conservative and red because of voter suppression. They're conservative
and red because of marginalization. So for her to even
be attached to something that's gonna benefit these families is amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
And another thing back to the conversation before, you have
a generation that has hope that sometimes our generation lost
in the mix somewhere because life just beat us up.
And you also now you have to come in with
already having a brand, already having a name.

Speaker 5 (01:04:14):
Like like like like the things that a lot of
us were taught later on in life.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
It's like they grew up in the generation of the
Internet and the generation of your appearance meant something, your
online prisons meant something, followers and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
And they've probably been educated and activated via social media
as well to be like this is even on my peripheral.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
Yeah, so they see what works and what doesn't work,
and they've probably seen people fail and things like that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
So they're for even though I still also think that's
really young.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
They came in with like a package, like they sat
down and talked to somebody and kind of got that
package together and then presented it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
Yeah, that's any good for her? Can you tell me?
Can you tell people where.

Speaker 5 (01:04:57):
To get the buck? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
And is dropping all of that good stuff, so we
can help you also get some of this capital and
hopefully get educated and get some like hope and knowledge
about us as well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Yeah, thank you for that question. So the book drops
June tenth, so just a few short days Tuesday, June tenth,
and you can get it wherever you buy books, make
it a black owned bookstore. There's so many that you
can access. Some that I love, Baldwin and Co. They're
based in Nola, having even my launch this Tuesday for

(01:05:32):
anyone that's local, in partnership with Cafe com Libros, as
well as a retailer next Friday for another event, Black
Gotham Experience, also based in New York, and so there
are a lot of excellent bookstores to grab the book from.
And I think just the biggest hope for the book

(01:05:52):
is around unified action. We spoke to it a little
bit before around you know, we've been having decades long
conversation conversations about our relationship to the economy, what we
should do, how do we create economic power that's going
to create new outcomes for ourselves. And you know, while

(01:06:13):
the conversation is worthy and important and necessary, action is
what's going to make the difference. And so the hope
is you get the book, you read it, you know,
you lock arms with folks, you debate, we talk through it,
but we land on what is it we're going to
do to get us from now to that point of
real liberation for us? And so yeah, I just hope

(01:06:35):
folks are able to enjoy it. Let me know what
they think, because I really do hope and think that
there's so much promise for us, and so it's really
about how can we create the strategy to tap into that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Well, that's dope. Like I said, I don't we don't
know each other or whatever. It's our first time meaning.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
But I'm very like proud of the fact that like
writing the books hard anyway. But yeah, just the fact
that you're willing to like entertain hanging this conversation in
this time, because I feel like it's such a like
triggering even the phrase it's like, oh, I'm ready to
kill somebody or just off of I don't even want
to discuss it. So like you know, I'm just look,
we're gonna put the prayer hands around you and that

(01:07:14):
you know your online and everything is fine with it
because it's definitely a worthwhile conversation and something that I
wish people did approach with nuance because it's not as
simple as you know, a X amount of money, bad person,
and we just need to get away from that because
we're gonna need resources to survive, even let alone to thrive.

(01:07:36):
So make sure you check the book out. It's Black
Capitalist Plural, a blueprint for what is possible. We'll have
the link in the show notes when the episode is out,
and we'll see y'all again throughout the week. I know
Tuesday we have Brandon Collins on from Drunk Black History,
so it will definitely be here Tuesday, and it'll really
depend on how we feel Monday and Wednesday if we

(01:07:58):
do the regular show or not, so you know, we'll
talk to you guys then.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
Until next time, I love you, I love you too,
te

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