Connecting Passion with Exploration with Hill Harper

Today, host Louis Carr speaks with Hill Harper, American actor and author.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm Louis Carr, host to the Blueprint Connect podcast. The
Blueprint Connect podcast is an extension of the Blueprint Men
Something where we have consistently given men a prescription book
look not just for themselves, but also for their families
and their communities. During these podcasts, we will educate and
motivate our listeners about entrepreneurship, careers, finances, health and wellness,

(00:27):
and relationship. During the Blueprint Men's Summit, you made a
statement that you had multiple college degrees, but you had
a job that you didn't need a high school you
only you didn't even need a high school diploma for,
but having those degrees gave you options. Could you elaborate
on that? Sure? And thanks, thanks so much for having

(00:47):
I think this is fantastic. Leuis so proud of what
you're building here with with Waymakers, So thank you first
and foremost. Uh. You know, I think that like many
things we are, we are foundationally taught the wrong thing
about education, um and oftentimes we're not taught about true

(01:07):
value in in in life and building success. What do
I mean by that? I mean that we're taught educationally
that you should study something so you can do something else.
Which is foundationally wrong to me, because that that very
premise begins to negate without saying it, the idea that
you don't have the capacity to be masters of many things.

(01:29):
There's that old saying don't be a jack of all
trades and a master of none. I I abhorrent lee
disagree with that saying, saying, I believe if you look
at the greatest people in history and the greatest people
living today, they are all masters of many things. That's
that's in fact what creates their greatness. And so you
want to lean in to learning as much about as

(01:51):
many different things as possible and then using your creative energies,
your entrepreneur energies, or wherever your energies leads you to
make plausible connections with those areas to create success or
a new path. So, therefore, having options is more valuable
than being a complete expert in one little slice. What

(02:15):
do I mean by that? Because if the bottom falls out,
or if a pandemic happens and something switches that if
you're all in and one little slice, then ever you
can lose everything. But if you actually have options and
you have abilities in multiple areas. Um the analogy I
often you sadly is about uh the NBA basketball player.

(02:38):
It's fantastic that there are a number of brothers that
spend their entire life learning that skill, and it is
extremely valuable skill to learn. To be able to be
extremely creative and beautiful with the ball, make a basket
from thirty ft out, dunk of basketball, rebounded, dribble past,

(02:59):
see the whole court. All of those are extremely valuable
skill sets. Yet on average, five years after an NBA
ballplayer retires, six of them file for bankruptcy. Yet we
hear young brothers to I won't be a baller. Oh,
I'm gonna be a baller, that's what I want to
be a bottle? Oh you want to be bankrupt five

(03:22):
years after you retire, even if you make the league
and you spend all your time and that What do
I mean by that? I mean if those same brothers
developed a skill set and optionality to be money managers
while they're making money, and they're making their money work
for them, then if their career last five years, ten years,
twenty starts to not matter because they have the ability

(03:43):
and the option to use their money however they want,
and that maybe even help other people grow well, so
what I mean, options are the most valuable thing you
can have. That's why when people are put in prison,
what's the number one thing that they do in prison?
The number one penal is they steal all your options.
You have no options about when you eat, when you

(04:05):
go to the bathroom, when you sleep, where you go out.
That's a massive penalty. So the reverse is true too.
The more options you have, massive benefit. Optionality is key.
We need to learn that more in in in our
community and then help people build their optionality. So Kovic

(04:26):
nineteen and and all of the variables that come along
with it has sort of taken the wind out of
a sell out of a lot of black students. I've
met too many who said they dropped. Now, uh, they're
not going back. They can't afford to go back. How
do we keep these young people motivated to stay in
school and press through the course. How do we do that?

(04:51):
We have to connect their passion with exploration, so and
not judge the passion a again, going back to what
I just said, too often we equate education with career.
To me, those two things are are do not They
can be connected, but they do not have to be.

(05:11):
As you said, I do a job you do not
need a high school diploma to do. Yet I have
to graduate degrees from Harvard, an undergraduate degree from Brown
in two different disciplines because I did a joint degree,
and I have seven honorary doctorates. Okay, none of those
degrees speak to anything that I do as my profession

(05:35):
for which I pay my bills, So watch where that is.
Yet all of them help me do it better, help
me enjoy it more, and help me navigate a career
for success in this area that I'm passionate about. I

(05:57):
love acting, I love entertainment. I love doing what I do,
and I truly believe that I would not I will
would not have met the long term career success I've had.
But for my educational foundation, education is simply a foundational tool.
It does not guarantee success, it doesn't guarantee happiness, it

(06:20):
doesn't guarantee anything. But just like building a house, you
need a foundation, and education is one of the foundational
elements for building a great life. Now does it have
to be Harvard or Brown or Howard or more House. No.
You can find education online. You can do your own education,

(06:43):
meaning you could do your own research and read up
and study and challenge yourself to be a better critical thinker.
I am not in any way some elders that you
need a degree from here or whatever. You can create
your own PhD program and and and and create your
own but you need to learn and grow your mind

(07:04):
and become a better critical thinker and know more about
many things. That's the key. And that's another thing people
get caught up in this degree. We'll shoot Mark Zuckerberg
dropped out of Harvard. He's a college dropout, and he
did Facebook and now he's one of the richest men
in the world with one of the most powerful companies
in the world. So clearly you don't need a college degree.

(07:25):
I'm not saying you need a college degree. But Mark
Zuckerberg learned something. He learned some things. He knows how
to code. He knows how to write code. Do you
know how to write code? Okay? So so here's the deal. Um,
it's more about learning and education to me is about
educating your mind to to create a foundational tool to

(07:48):
build your life and also provide options. That's it and
connected to what you're passionate about. That ultimately, that's it,
and and that's how we get people still connected. If
you can't afford to go to school, then don't don't
go to I'm expensive private school, run up a bunch
of debt. There are so many good local community colleges
where you can take a class for two hundred fifty

(08:08):
dollars five dollars, go online and take a class. You
can cobble together your own educational program to create your
own educational foundation if you're not in a position to afford.
Because I do not recommend going into extreme amounts of
debt for uh education that doesn't pay for itself in
a way. Now, I went into a lot of debt

(08:30):
for my Harvard degrees. I graduated with six figures of debt.
Yet I looked at graduates from Harvard graduate programs and
what their future earnings are, and I made a calculus
to invest in myself that it was a good calculus
to go into that level of debt. And you know what,
it was a good calculus. Now, I just buy someone

(08:50):
who told me they wanted to go to the Court
Dawn Blue School and they couldn't afford it. And I said, well,
how much debt would be over the first two years?
They said, oh, sixty dollars, And I said, hold on,
court on Blue school is great, and you want to
be a great chef, that's fine, But how about this,
why don't you apprentice at the top restaurants in the
world for free? You in other words, you give away

(09:11):
your services for free and work a side job doing whatever, um,
and you're learning those two years and then hopefully you
develop an amazing relationship with this top chef in the
world and you learn, but you come out with zero
debt after two years, and you come out with new
relationships as opposed to court on Blue. If you could
afford the court on Blue school, then by all means go.
But if you have to getting six thousand dollars of

(09:33):
debt where your first job coming out of there will
be a line cook anyway making sixteen dollars, I don't
think that's the right garden. So we've got a new
president which will have a new administration. What do you
think they should do and how shouldn't we encourage them
to focus more attention and more resources to educating people

(09:55):
of color? Okay, a couple of things. First, I think
it's a um a false notion to go federal. I
have very little confidence in our federal leadership in general. UM,

(10:15):
no matter what party it is, no matter who they are,
there are so many incumbrances and so much fat and problems.
And the simple fact is the federal government is broken.
So expecting results out of that apparatus is just setting

(10:38):
yourself up for heartbreak. That's just my personal opinion. Now,
does that mean that we don't hold them accountable? Because
we put them in office by all means we need
to hold them accountable. We need to be very clear
with our demands and what we need to see happen.
But I would like more focused to happen on the local, uh,
the state and local level, because us that is really

(11:01):
where you see day in day out functional shifts and changes,
and we need to hold our local representatives accountable. And
we also need more young people to consider running for office.
I truly believe that. So if you're watching this now,
I don't care if you haven't even graduated college yet,
think about running for a public office now you can already,

(11:23):
it's not too late. If you can vote, you can run. UM.
And in some cases, you don't even need to be
a voting age to run for an office, because you
don't you just won't be able to cast a vote
for yourself, but you still can occupy the office. So
we need more new people in these offices. Number one.
Number two, we need to hold our federal federal folks accountable.
Certainly the Biden and harrass administration accountable because our community

(11:48):
put them in office and they need to to get
the funds. But here's the deal. It's always a it's
always a trickle down because the way things work, people
have to understand you. You you you have of federal oversight,
so to speak, where checks are written. You have state
kind of management, and then local operations. And the question

(12:11):
is can we hold them on the federal level accountable
to get the money to and resources to the state,
and then to hold the state accountable to get that
management down to the local level, and then hold the
local folks accountable to make sure that that money and
resources and programs are are distributed to the people themselves.

(12:32):
And oftentimes it breaks way up here before it even
gets all the way down um. And so so holding
folks accountable on all levels is critical. And just because
you voted and just because we elected them, doesn't mean
the work really starts January as soon as they take off.

(12:54):
We'll be right back with more of my interview after
this quick break. So you you just mentioned getting more
young people involved in the political process, probably the first
time our democracy to save our democracy. It's critical because

(13:16):
there's there's such a lack of trust in our democracy
and a lot of that has to do with the
fact that, uh, the older people who have played this
game have basically been rip off artists. And that's what
they are. I mean, I hate to say it, but
most of them are. Most of these lifetime politicians, um
are you know, they're playing a game. They are playing

(13:39):
a game with people's money, with their tax dollars, and uh,
and it's a shame. It's a shame. And I'm talking
about all parties, you know, because most of these people
are lifetime politicians, all of them. But how do we
do that? You know? I know people who start off,
you know, in political science, and some people graduate and
then they go on the laws and then you say,

(14:01):
are you going to be a lawyer? Are you gonna
be a politician? And they're I don't know, I'm not
gonna be a politician. Oh no, lewis what I would
just say, be a politician who would do that. How
do we really motivate and inspire these young people to
get involved in order to sort of change the future
of our communities in our country. Well, it's it's like

(14:21):
anything else you have. You start them early in positions
that Let's be clear, most people don't want to run
for office because they're afraid to lose. Let's just say
what it is all those people that you said politician,
No politician, what are you talking about? If you said,
I'm gonna point you to this position, you do not

(14:42):
even have to run, you get it? Wait? Really I
could be I could be head of the city council.
What you just gonna I don't have to run. I
don't have to make myself vulnerable and and raise, you know,
raise money and go out and campaign and and and
get embarrassed. Potentially, it's fear. It's fear Lewis and and
fear dictates so much of our lives. You know me,
I think I say fear stands for false evidence appearing real.

(15:05):
The vast majority of fears we carry our our our lives,
that we've been told by somebody else who wants to
keep us stuck, and and and so so many people
are afraid to run because they're afraid to lose. They're
afraid to be embarrassed, they're afraid to be vulnerable. They're
afraid to go out there and say I want this,
and it's public, everybody knows, and if you don't win,

(15:26):
everybody knows. And that's about ego and fear um rather
than about wanting to fundamentally see something shift and change. Uh.
And so we got to start them early in in
in types of races that it literally just takes you
rolling up your sleeves to win. Meaning you know someone's
gonna someone's gonna win. It's just who does the work,

(15:49):
you know, I mean we have there was there was
a presidential candidate that is now known around the world
that before he ran for president, had had only about
twelve thousand votes cast for him in South Bend, Indiana,

(16:10):
twelve thousand votes cast for him, and now he's on
the international political stage because he had the courage to
run for office. He had the courage to run for
mayor in a small little town. He won that I

(16:30):
think twelve thousand vote for cast for him. He hadn't
won anything else, and he runs for president. It's about
having the courage to step out, be vulnerable, say you
deserve it, and you we do. Our people deserve We
keep putting people in office. We we should be running

(16:50):
for office. Was a young brother in Denver who's running
the school board named Tay Anderson. I was on a
panel with him. He gets death writs on a daily.
He's twenty one years old and he's controlling a multi
billion dollar school you know system. Um, but he stepped
out and he said this, this school system didn't serve me.

(17:11):
So I'm running. And he won't. And people hate the
fact that he wants and they don't like him because
he's very outspoken, and he just keeps referring people back
to the fact that he won't. He won't. You got
a problem with me, Um, take it up next time
I run and uh. And we need to have that
type of attitude, that type of that type of great

(17:32):
hubrist courage to step in the public arena and go.
And anybody who does that, I'll say it right now,
I will support you and be there for you. I mean,
we we were seeing the results of activist people running.
Just look at what just happened in in UH in
Los Angeles where the new the new d a AS

(17:52):
has abolished all of these A warrant A warrant things.
It's like, you want to you want to solve police
group reality. You start you stop charging a lot of
young brothers at the police pick up. And if you
stop charging them, they're gonna stop picking them up because
the one thing police don't like to do is paperwork
that has no meaning. Right, So every time they pick
somebody up and the person is just let right out,

(18:14):
they're gonna be like, dang, I'm gonna stop picking I'm
gonna stop picking people up for carrying an ounce of
marijuana because this is like, it's a waste of time exactly.
So you can you can help stop stopping frisk by
having a new activist d A in. I know in Chicago,
you guys know something about that, and and people came
after that, right because whoa no, no, no no, no, no no.

(18:36):
We we actually like to have systemic racism in place.
If you're trying to dismantle systemic racism, then that's not
something we want to see. That's why we need multiple
people in multiple places dismantling these apparatus. So let we've
we've talked about education we've talked about politics. Now we're
gonna talk about something I think you know a little
bit about, uh, the health care system. You you play

(19:02):
this role on The Good Doctor, uh and and uh
you do a pretty good job at it. Dr Martin
nineteen has uh exposed so many deficiencies in our country
and in our health care system. We know we don't
have enough doctors, we don't have enough nurses. And then

(19:24):
when you go down to people of color who participate
in those fields, they're even smaller. How do you believe
that we can educate black people number one, more about
their health and get them involved in doing different things,
different lifestyles to sort of number one, address some of

(19:46):
these underlying conditions that has been exposed because of COVID nineteen.
And then also second part of that question, how do
we get more people who are black and brown to
get involved in the health care system? Okay, well, let
me take the second one first. Um, I had the
honor of participating in a documentary recently called Black Men

(20:10):
in White Coats, and my character, as you mentioned on
The Good Doctor, as a black man in a white coat,
you know, and the numbers of black men who are
physicians it's atrocious. So what we need to do is
let people know that there are bona fide, really rewarding

(20:32):
careers in medicine that are available to you. They're there
whether you become a nurse, nurse practitioner, a doctor, physician, dentist, surgeon,
mental health worker. UM. There are so many different verticals

(20:53):
there are interesting and fascinating and helpful. Why is this important.
It's important for the point you were making that the
simple fact of matter, systemic racism runs through the system
of healthcare as well as the individual providers, and we
are treated differently in terms of care. There are numerous

(21:16):
studies that show that we are under prescribed, for instance,
pain medication because of bias against pain management, as if
we some somehow are either prone to be addicts or
we are herculean in our ability to withstand pain. But
the point is is that we are well under diagnosed

(21:38):
in terms of pain manager. We are underdiagnosed in terms
of how we are treated, in terms of how many
tests are run on us when we present a problem
that's not clearly and acutely diagnosable. UM. All of these
things have negative health outcomes. If we look at the

(22:00):
infant mortality rate with black women. I was prison Obama
appointing to the President's Cancer Panel, so I served on
the cancer panel making recommendations to his White House. Um,
I'm a cancer survivor. Uh. That was an amazing panel
to beyond because I learned so much about cancer and
cancer treatment and cancer care. Are incidents around cancer? God,

(22:20):
you know, obviously, God bless Chadwick Boseman. God blessed the
sister m Danielle who just passed yesterday of colon cancer. Um,
who was in the movie Baps Um. You know, Listen,
we have to get to these things early. If you
notice something that a little not right, don't play through it.

(22:41):
Go get checked and then ask the doctor questions. And
something still not feeling right, get checked again and ask
more questions. So that's how we start taking care of
our individual health. Help. Don't take no for an answer
and keep getting checked. But we need more diversity and
people of color in medicine, in animal caring for us. Um.

(23:02):
I I seek out finding a doctor of color just
because I know that there is bias in the system.
So I want my doctor to be black, you know,
because I want to see like I want to make
sure I'm taking the variables out like I know you're
gonna order every test. You know, that's right, let's get
let's get there. Um And So here's the deal. We

(23:24):
need to encourage more folks to get involved, just like
the political system get involved in medicine certainly, and we
also need to make sure that we are taking care
of our health on the front side. There's so much
information about healthy habits, um and eating properly as well
as exercise and all of the things that can be
very preventative that we don't talk about enough in our community.

(23:47):
Um and, and there's plenty of people out there doing
it and plenty of ways to get that information. People
can't say that they didn't know they shouldn't be eating
a Popeye's fried chicken sandwich. You can't say you know
you're not supposed to be. Now if you decide e
every once in a while, if you decide, you know,
I just need to taste it. Buy one of them things,
cut a quarter of it and eat it. Then you
get the flavor, you get to taste, you enjoy, and

(24:08):
throw the three quarters of it in the trash. It
is trashing your body, okay. And you can have a
cheat day every once in a while. But the point
is is that eating fried foods, we know on a
regular basis is not the way to go. But the
problem is many of us live in these food deserts.
So therefore those of us that are entrepreneurs have to say, hey,
can we open up grocery stores and fresh produced stores

(24:30):
and in these neighborhoods. So you know, I have an
affinity and leaning into Detroit. There's an area in Detroit
that is a food desert where I am trying to
be an activist in trying to raise money in capital
to open up things in that area. Now, again it
goes back to raising money. Are we willing to invest
in these types of things and our people out there

(24:51):
willing to best all these companies that are announcing hundred
million dollars initiatives for this, for black thises and black that.
Where is that money? Where is that money? Because I
haven't seen a like a black fresh produce store open yet,
but you keep telling me you're you're gonna give a
hunter mine out, So so who is that money going to.
It's just like that two point four trillion dollar allocation
the federal government. Did you know We're in the middle

(25:11):
of a pandemic and the stock market is at all
time Hodes, where's that two point four trillion dollars? We
know exactly where it is. It's in the stock market.
What percentage of black people own stocks in those companies
that are riding all time has very low percentage. So
where did that money go, your taxpayers? It went to
make somebody else rich. And that happened under all of

(25:33):
our watches. So let's be really clear about what's going on.
We need to be activists in the community, and we
need to get funding and capital polling in the community.
And we need to be our own reparations because ain't
nobody coming from No one's coming for that two point
four trillion is not coming. It's not coming, So we
need to do it for ourselves. We'll be right back

(25:57):
with more of my interview after this quick great So,
as you know, the name of this publication is way Maker.
When you think back, who were some of the way
makers in your life that sort of open up doors

(26:20):
and help you get to where you are today? There
are so many, it is countless. I had so many
way makers Lewis and and and I still need more.
I still need that never stops. I need way makers
now still too. And I want to be a way
maker for other folks, and and I actively do that.

(26:42):
I think back about my both of my grandfather's Harold Hill,
they called him Dock Hill. You were here at p
Pemont Pharmacy and Seneca, South Carolina, and I remember spending
my summers there. I remember seeing him in his white
his white pharmacy schmock and he would get he would
trade pharmaceuticals for potatoes and chickens for people who couldn't
afford in the community. You know, it was after after

(27:06):
Jim Crow segregation where I saw him, but he was
open during segregation when you couldn't go to rex Ali
Walgreens and you went to Pete My Pharmacy. And I
still remember his voice where he'd answered Pete, my pom's it,
He my pom's it. That's the way he would answer
the phone. And that voice resonated because he was serving
the community Pete My pharmacy. And I remember my grandfather

(27:30):
Harry Harper, who was a doctor as well in Iowa.
Small town. So both my grandparents were from small town,
small town, South Carolina, small town for Madison, Iowa, serving
the community. I remember uh my uncle uh Carter. He
pulled me to the side when I was a little kid,

(27:51):
scared me. You better take care of your studies. You
better take care of those studies. And I was always
scared of him. But every time I saw him, how
you studies? What's going on? What are you doing? He
was detempting to hold me accountable, hold me accountable. And
I was scared of him, but I remember him holding
me accountable. And I think about a professor I had

(28:15):
at Brown University, and Professor Martin Martell, a Jewish man,
who pulled me the side one day. He said, when
you're gonna stop taking advantage of your race? So what
he said, you're skating? So what do you mean? He said,
You're the smartest student I've ever had, And but you're not.

(28:37):
You're you're just putting in stuff just to get the A.
You're doing the minimum just to get the A. When
you're gonna start operating at your potential, when you're gonna
lead in to be great and be the best and
do things exemplary and go beyond everything every assignment every

(28:59):
day A more research, better, writing, more editing, more rewriting,
reading more, going beyond the assignment, looking at the footnotes
of the assignment and reading that article, and then looking
at the footnotes of that article and reading that article
and then referencing those in your assignment. I can tell
when someone just reads the assignment because they referenced stuff

(29:21):
in the assignment. But I can also tell when people
go deeper because they use the crumbs that lead you deeper,
that have that's like, how do they know that? Wow,
they read a footnote and they went to that article.
I get charged up to think about that right now,
because that is what life is about, reading the footnote

(29:42):
and going deeper, not just doing the minimal. And he
challenged me. He said, as a black person, people are
gonna expect not even what you can deliver. So therefore
it's gonna be You're gonna be good because you're smarter
than they are and they don't expect that. But if
you just ride on that left, you'll never be rate
mm hmmm. And I'll never forget him for that. He's

(30:05):
passed off, and he impacted my life and changed my
life because he raised the bar from me and many
of us rise up to the expectations that are placed
upon us, and that means we need to expect more
from each other because more of us will rise because
we have the capacity to do it. But oftentimes we

(30:26):
expect too little of each other. For the people who
are sort of standing on the sidelines, and I talked
to a lot of people who say I want to
do something, I don't know what to do, I don't
know where to start, I don't know how to get
it done. They have potential to be waymakers. What advice
would you give them, because as we started this conversation,

(30:49):
our community needs more way makers. So what is the
word you would have for people who just just maybe
standing on the sidelines right now trying to figure out
what to do and how to get it. I think
the the the easiest and most natural transition to that
type of way making for yourself has to do with

(31:11):
helping others make away. And the way you can do
that is analyze your life and your movements right now
and start to look at who you pass by. Oftentimes,
who do you run into, who do you see, and
then can you take the risk and have the courage

(31:35):
to actually reach out to them, knowing that nine out
of ten of them will not even take the baton,
but there will be one who will. The way I
did it early on, because I used to even before
I wrote my first book, and I believe this led
me to actually writing my first book. Is I would

(31:57):
take certain books that I love that were helpful to me.
I eat them behind the scene of my car, because
I started to notice there will be a lot of brothers,
young brothers, standing on the corners. And I said, well,
you know, I'm I'm driving by these brothers all the time,
and I know there's a better use for their time.

(32:18):
How do I connect with them? How do I help
them make away? And why am I getting intuition to
try to make a way for them? So I said, well,
I've read books that have been mentorship on paper. Let's
try that. So I keep these books. I see a
young cat, white T shirts standing on the corner. None,

(32:39):
pull off, get out, hey brother. You know, approaching properly,
it's not gonna be a problem. Hey man, Yeah, yeah,
what's up? What's up? Hey man? I got I just
want to give you a book. A book, man, I
don't need a Bible. And no it's not the Bible.
You know what I'm saying. I I'm not Jehovah witness.

(33:01):
You know what I'm saying. I'm just gonna give you this.
This is a this is a this is this is
called a Millionaire next Door. This is about become a
millionaire just through saving you some money. Or or this
book is called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior Um.
This is about the fact that we all could be
peaceful warriors in life. Or this book is called Letters
to a Young Poet, and it's about this young poet
who thought he was great. And but when I had

(33:21):
my book letteratary young brother, I said, this book is
called Letters to a Young Brother is by me. I
wrote it for you, young brother, and I want you
to just read it. Okay, I got paid for it.
Oh man, I'm not selling you the book. I'm giving
you this book. There's lessons in this book. If you

(33:44):
apply them to your life, there's better things for your time.
To stand on this corner doing whatever you're doing on
this corner, and you may feel like you need to
do what you're doing on this corner, but you don't.
In fact, if you're gonna tell me the reason why
you're on this corner is just to make money, I
can show you two thousand different ways to make significantly
more money with less time that doesn't potentially require a

(34:07):
complete downside of you losing all your options. No judgment,
just choices. No judgment, just choices, No judgment, just choices.
Thanks man, all right, God bless you. It's easy conversation
to have. You don't know whose life you're change, and

(34:30):
that is incorporating making a way out of things you're
already doing. And that's why I say to start there,
because if you start incorporating that muscle and exercising that
muscle through your life, like when when I was a
big big brother and big brothers big sisters, it's like,
you don't need to change your life to change theirs.

(34:50):
I would just add my little brother into my life
like it wasn't coming up with special things for him.
It's like, man, I gotta go to this audition, get
in the car. You know, uh whatever her that was,
and so uh. To make a way for someone else,
you don't have to change your life. Just actually start
reaching out. And as soon as you developed that courage muscle,
you start to find new ways to touch people, and

(35:12):
you start finding new ways to make a way for yourself.
That's the key point there. I believe because I started
handing out books, it planning the seat in my head
that I should write my own book because none of
these books were quite right for the young brothers I
was handed in too. They were good, but they didn't
speak to him, and that book didn't exist. So I said,

(35:33):
I'm a writing and that's how Letter to a Young
Brother was born. So there there are a lot of
people of color Hill who believe that they only get
one shot and if they blow that one shot, they're done.
What is the biggest mistake you've made into your career
and how did you recover? You're trying to get me

(35:57):
to cry like one tier like Denzel, and why are
you making me relive? I've made so many and I
made so many mistakes. Oh ah. I remember early in
my career I got a coveted job. The job I

(36:20):
had to audition like seven times to get it was
they were adding a black character to Married with Children,
black recurring character. And the final test I was testing
against this really young, funny dude named Dave Chappelle, and
he and I tested against each other. He's a little
younger than me, and he was funny and ever he
had a lot of hype because everything he's so funny.

(36:42):
But I won the role, you know, because I was
a better actor than Day and this is you know,
he may be funnier than me, but I'm a better actor.
And so this is an acting job. You know, you
had to read a script. It wasn't just you know,
be funny. So I won this role. It was massive
for me. Married with Children was like one of the
number one shows and TV. But at the same time,
my goal in in in entertainment. I always wanted to

(37:06):
win an Oscar and I wanted to be like Sydney
Portier Denzel Washington, and so I wanted to do films
with the top directors. And a film came along um
called Smoke, and I think it was Angley was the director.
But it had William Hurt Oscar winner, Stocker Channing Oscar winning,

(37:30):
Harvey Kytel Oscar winner, and it was to play opposite
William Hurt, and I was young in my career. I
didn't know any better. In the film company said you
have to if you want to be in the movie,
you have to screen test on such and such a day.

(37:50):
H and that was going to conflict with one of
my Married with Children episodes because they did it live
to an audience, and I had been asking Married with
Children to put me under contract, but they wanted to
just keep hiring me piecemeal because you can pay an
actor or less if you just hire episode by episode,
so you're not contractually obligated, but they're just hiring your episode.

(38:11):
If you're under contract, like I am on The Good Doctor,
for instance, I'm contractually obligated and that's more expensive because
you're literally buying someone's availability. So they hadn't done that
with me. So I said, oh, I can't do that
test that day for this Oscar level movie because I'm

(38:31):
gonna be shooting Married with Children Los Angeles. They want
me to test with William Hurt in person in New
York and then to my Asian causes as well. They're saying,
if you can't do it that day, you you're out. Now,
you don't have to go to Marry with Children. You're good,

(38:51):
you know, because they're you're not in a contract. And
I'm like, well, I'm I want to win oscars, you know,
God bless us Sitcom? But how long the Oscars? And
I've always been on myself I'm gonna do. So I
walk into h the executive's office of married and I said,

(39:12):
you know, thank you so much, but is there a
way you can write me out of this episode for
this next episode because I got to go to New
York to do the screen test. The guy, the executive producer,
looks at me and says, if you walk out that door,
you'll never work for us again. It's it done over.

(39:35):
And I walked out the door and I flew to
New York and I realized they had lied to me
because I had heard another actor who wasn't there that
day was still going to screen test. And then I
didn't get the role, and I was at home back

(39:57):
in l A crushed. I'm talking about crying boo hoo
tears because I had one the biggest job of my
career and I had given it up over an experience.
Because the one thing I've learned in Hollywood is that

(40:19):
if they want you, they want you, and they may
try to get you to show up on a particular day,
but they really want you, they're gonna make away. They'll
they'll give you another day. And if they kind of
don't want you, then you shouldn't bowl something you know,
don't take don't get rid of a bird in the
hand where you know, for two in the bush, and

(40:41):
you know that that choice has hurt me since it
still hurts me because it was. I wish I would
have had people in my life to give me better
advice because I was literally operating off my own choices,
rather than someone saying hey, and then then we're gonna

(41:02):
call him and say hey, if you want help, you
gotta work out of time because he's working. Well. Clearly
you recovered, recover because you're not recovered. I haven't recovered psychologically.
The scars, the PTSD scars are still there because you
almost brought the tear. It was almost like an episode

(41:22):
of OPRAH way back in the day where everybody you
almost had the cries, why you why are you bringing
this up? You know, it's it's it's you know, it's
probably impacted by my relationships with women and everything. It's
it's filtered over to every aspect of my life. You know. Um,

(41:43):
but yeah, man, it's it's. I was you recover because
you stay in it and you realize they're always gonna
be bossed, there's always gonna be obstacles there's always gonna
be things where you believe that something's gonna be bigger
than it is. I have countless stories like that in
my career. I have stories where I got the movie,

(42:03):
did the movie, people told me I was gonna win
Oscar in the movie, and then the movie lost his
distribution and the only people that saw were my mother
and the director. So that those movies exist that no
one's ever seen, where I've done my best work, and
so you know, those things are gonna happen. We can't
control the results, but we can't control our actions, and
and we can control our attitude. I never, I'm never.

(42:26):
The one thing I can say about myself is that
I've never I've only allowed myself ever in my life
a period to have a messed up attitude. You know,
sometimes you get into those attitudes, but but give yourself
a window for that and then and then after that,
because attitude is everything, Attitude and energy everything. No matter

(42:49):
what you do, well, you've clearly recovered, you've got an
amazing career. I told somebody that's I think he will hump.
Have been on television just about every year for like
the last twenty years. I said, I think he didn't
do more work than any other black person than television.

(43:13):
That's funny. It could be. It could be, man, I
think that when I see Anthony Anderson, I think that,
so I think he I think Anthony may have done
more than me. But but but I think I think
you got the years on him. Throw I do gotta
comele of years after. Well, this has been great man.
I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Thank you.