Countering Misinformation with Dr. Battinto L. Batts Jr.

This week, host Louis Carr speaks with Dr. Battinto L. Batts Jr., Dean of the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Arizona State University.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Louis Carr, host of the Blueprint Connect podcast. The
Blueprint Connect podcast is an extension of the Blueprint Man Summit,
where we have consistently given men a prescription for girl
not just for themselves, but also for their families and
their communities. Doing these podcasts, we will educate and motivate

(00:25):
our listeners about entrepreneurship, careers, finance, health and wellness, and relationships.
Our special guest today the prestigious and new deed of
the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism, Dr. Potential Facts. Thank
you very much, Lewis. It's my pleasure to be here

(00:47):
UH today and to have an opportunity to spend some
time with you. Thank you so much. First of all,
we want to congratulate you on this new position at
Arizona State at the Prestige You just walked to crime
Kite School of Journalism, and can you just tell us
about your journey to this position, where you were before

(01:09):
and what attracted you to Arizona. Sure, so, you know,
the journey here to Arizona State and this position as
the Dean of the Cronkite School is really I would
say it's been a lifelong journey. And I, you know,
I grew up in a small community, a small education

(01:33):
community in central Virginia, around a historically black university, Virginia
State University, which my parents attended. And my parents were educators.
My mother, my mother was an elementary school teacher. My
father was an administrator at Virginia State UM. And so
education again was in our household. It was stressed. It

(01:55):
was never any doubt that I would go to college. Uh,
it was just a matter of what I would choose
to major in. And so I went to college at
a different University of Virginia Commonwealth and majored in journalism.
And so my my life has been defined by those
two things, journalism and education. And so I had a
newspaper career that took me through uh five newspapers between

(02:19):
Virginia and Florida, and then some somehow along the way,
I guess maybe I was giving off that education vibe.
Someone came to me with an opportunity about twenty years
ago to be an adjunct professor at Hampton University. And
at that particular time, I've never seen myself being a teacher,
had never taught before. But I went into the classroom

(02:40):
and absolutely loved it, and that really was the genesis
of me embarking on a career and higher education. And
so I transitioned out of the news business from a
from a day to day standpoint and went into higher
education and just loved it and ended up, you know,
earning a PhD in education, and you know, worked at

(03:01):
Hampton for a while as a director of the William R.
Harvey Leadership Institute at Hampton and then the assistant dean
for academic Affairs at the Scripts Howard School for Journalism
and Mass Communications at Hampton. And I mentioned that because
um then the Scripts Howard Foundation recruited me away from
Hampton at the end of two thousand and fifteen and

(03:23):
I became the director of Journalism Strategies for the Scripts
Howard Foundation. And what that enabled me to do, Lewis,
was really to interface with lots of journalism programs on
the collegiate level across the country and lots of journalism
organizations globally who were all interested in, you know, really

(03:43):
promoting the craft of journalism, teaching the next um, the
next um generation of journalism professionals, and really having having
the opportunity to uh support those missions by way of
providing funding and grants and support to make that happen.
And Arizona State University and the Cronkite School was one

(04:06):
of the schools that I got to work with quite
a bit with one of our major grants through the foundation.
And so when a s U and the Crunkite School
was looking for a new dean, I was recruited for
this position. And so a lot of five people, Uh,
I know we're interested in this role, and so I
feel very, very fortunate and blessed to be the final choice. Well,

(04:27):
it sounds like you had a foundation that was sort
of three sixty in learning about education, understanding funding, Uh,
the impact that it does make. And Uh, I didn't
know that your your parents were in the education business.
So uh it is a privilege and a right for

(04:50):
us to sort of be having this sort of conversation.
Can you tell our young audience, Uh, how important that
walked to Cronkite was to the field of journalism. They
may not even know who he is. So Walter Cronkite
was the standard bearer in terms of UH news and

(05:12):
the evening news, and in terms of journalism and broadcast journalism. Uh.
He was the when people talked about watching the evening news,
it most likely meant watching watching Walter Cronkite on CBS News.
And so, you know, the other stations, the other networks,

(05:32):
NBC and ABC, they also had evening news programs, but
it was all modeled after what Walter Cronkite was doing
at CBS News. And you know, he was just an
iconic figure, uh and had some of the most iconic
UH news events that came you know, under his tenure.

(05:54):
One of them that we recall is the assassination of
President John F. Kenn and it was Walter Cronkites uh
relaying that news. We've seen that quite a bit over
the of the course of history and that that historical perspective.
And then another is the Apollo moon landing. Walter Cronkite

(06:15):
gave the call on that as well. And so when
we think of some of the most um historic events
of the twentieth century, you know, Walter Cronkite was the
person who we think of in terms of delivering that news.
And so, you know, we talked about trust and trust
in media and trust in journalism. You know, there was

(06:37):
never any question about the information that we would get
from Walter Cronkite. If Walter Cronkite said it, people took
it as you know, factual, as the gospel and UH.
And so that's the type of man who he was,
and that's the standard that we seek to uphold and
and UH to go after with you know, with our

(06:57):
program here, UH Dr Batchel, are you the first person
of color to hold this position at Arizona State? Yes, um,
the first UH person of color to be the dean
of the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication.
And as that person, we've seen the world sort of

(07:19):
changed dramatically over the last year that have UH. COVID
nineteen has changed every single person's life. And also the
recognition of racial inequality in our country has not just
changed the US, has changed the world internationally. One are

(07:41):
the things that you're trying to accomplish UH in this
position now as you start at Arizona State. So, yes,
First and foremost, UH lewis we have a crisis that
we have to confront in terms of misinformation and disinformation
and a lack of trust in in media and a

(08:03):
lack of trust in just basic facts. And so we
have to work from a global perspective to address this crisis.
And so what that means is is really first and
foremost working to make more people what I would call
media literate and the ability to ascertain you know, what

(08:24):
what is factual information? What are good sources of information?
What are the best places to get you know, accurated, unbiased,
you know, unfiltered information. Uh. And so that's first and
foremost because we have to do that before before we
really even can be able to be as successful as

(08:45):
we want to be in terms of doing great journalism.
And and also I mentioned communications, and I'm going to
speak to that in a minute, but we but we
you know, we endeavored to do great, hard hitting investigative
journalism and to know to also ever to do fantastic
narrative storytelling and you know, bringing more you know, diverse
voices to the forefront in terms of our profession. Uh.

(09:09):
And then as it's as it relates to the communications field,
you know, in in public relations and strategic communications and
even advertising, we have to work to build bridges to
get people to trust institutions and to trust information that
are coming out of institutions and those that sort of
lack of trust also helps to make you know issues,

(09:34):
you know that we're trying to confront, for example, from
a health care perspective and healthcare disparities, they make them
more pervasive. And let's look at where we are right
now with the with the pandemic and the lack of
trust that some people in some communities have regarding the vaccine,
and that that comes from you know, misinformation and disinformation

(09:54):
and you know some things that happened in the past
that it really fed into that lack of trust. We
have to confront that, and we have to make sure,
as what I would say, make sure that the ground
is more fertile and open, and that people are listening
and and really valuing what we're doing. And so what

(10:14):
I would also say is that our mission there then
is to address those concerns while also getting more diverse
voices UH into the fields of journalism and communication and
then working collaboratively with other disciplines here on campus at
an issue, but other other other partners at other universities

(10:36):
or other organizations. UH. And I'm of the mindset that
journalism and communications should really be a fundamental offering, should
be part of the core curriculum, so to speak, at
any any institution, and so I'm sort of on a
mission to make journalism and communications just like you know

(10:59):
math or England US or you know, the sciences as
part of a requirement because we have to do this
as a society is you know, we have to make
people value information more. And so you know that's that's
really sort of in a nutshell and sort of high
level what I'm hoping to get accomplished in this role
as the So Dr Batts, I don't know if I

(11:21):
told you this. I do have a degree in journalism,
uh from Drake University. But back when I got my degree,
we didn't have this thing called fake news. We didn't
have opinionated news. But more importantly, we didn't have all
of these other platforms like Facebook and Instagram and all

(11:44):
these other uh outlets where people get information. Uh. How
do you now build a curriculum to sort of manage
and and uh educate students but also inform them with
balance on where the news should come from and how

(12:05):
to get what's real and not real. That has to
be super complicated in a world where most young people
did their news from social media. It has to be
a very challenging job. It is it is very challenging,
and you know, we're digging in to try to you know,
to work to figure that out because, as you said,

(12:27):
you're right, and one of the things that's really difficult
to change is consumption habits. You know, we we we
have our consumption habits. And when I'm talking about consumption,
I mean in terms of where we take in news
and information and what we and what we trust. And
I was over the course of the past couple of days,

(12:49):
I've done some lecturing with some first year students, uh
and just asking them where they're getting their information and
their primary sources are you know places you know social
media platforms Twitter, um, uh, Instagram, uh, you know, Snapchat.
And there's nothing wrong with the platforms per se, but

(13:11):
but there's just a lot of stuff out there, you know,
a lot of good stuff, a lot of bad stuff,
and we have to work to teach them how to
ascertain the difference between what's good and what's bad, and
what's you know, what's fake news or you know, what's
factual and what's not. And and the other thing that

(13:33):
I would say is that's not just an endeavor that
we need to take on with students in journalism and
communications programs, but really campus why and UM and you know,
throughout higher education because as I said, I mean students,
you know, they they have their consumption habits, and so

(13:56):
how do we, you know, look to I don't think
we ever be able to tell them you can't get
You shouldn't get information from Twitter, we shouldn't get information
from Instagram. We shouldn't get information from Snapchat. No, that's
not gonna work. But we just need to teach them
how to be um more um more more um sort

(14:18):
of more distinguished or how they look or distinctive in
terms of how they being able to sort through information
and what's and what's good, and what's and what's not
and to make them more um educated. We'll be right
back with more of my interview after this quick break.

(14:46):
So you're dealing with with students who have enrolled. How
should we deal with communities that sort of our confused
and skeptical, skeptical of everything they see or here, whether
it's about the vaccine or whether it's about information at all.

(15:06):
I can remember back last year when the news first
broke about Kobe Bryant, and people were like, is it true?
Is it not true? Where should that go it is true,
how should they learn how to distinguish or what is
the process maybe that they should go through in sort

(15:28):
of vetting information. So I think that one way that
we can really work to get at this is that
if we think about our networks of people who we
communicate with on a daily basis, um, there are certain
groups of people or certain members who have what I

(15:49):
would call what's known as social capital U the people
who who know a lot of people, who are really
strong voices throughout their community and have connection to a
lot of people, and who are respected. You know, not
only do they know a lot of people, but they
are respected voices within their communities, and they have again

(16:09):
a lot of social capital. There are people who if
this person said it, you know, then you know, they
believe it. It's real. And I think that there is
an opportunity, and I've seen this in some of my
research and some of the other programs that I've worked on,
you know, particularly confronting health care disparities, is that if
we can get to people who really are respected in

(16:30):
the communities, and that could be that could be church leaders,
that could be you know, teachers, you know, that could
be you know, um, you know community you know leaders
in terms of community organizations and really getting down on
the grassroots level and providing them means of of helping
to better inform their communities and the people who they

(16:52):
network with. I think that's one way to go at it.
And I think that as we think of this as educators,
we have to think about ways of delivering those types
of tools and resources to these people who have these
the social capital in their in their communities so that
you know, it can't be a class where they have
to take and it takes them a semester to get

(17:14):
through it. No, how can we provide them with you know,
quick tools that they can use to be able to
inform people so that maybe maybe they can uh if
it is so for example, maybe it's a homeowners association,
or maybe it's a community uh, neighborhood association, and that
the leaders of those associations are able to say, hey, look,

(17:35):
the importance or the vibrancy and the and the the
cohesiveness of our organization is based on being able to
provide information that people can trust and believe, and that's
fundamental to us being successful. And so, you know, promoting

(17:57):
that and providing those leaders the ability to to train
people to sort through what's what's fake news and what's misinformation.
It was different disinformation maybe one way to go at that.
And I think that universities like Arizona State, which has
a tremendous footprint, be via our our online programming. I

(18:19):
think that that's a way that we can help to
deliver that. You know, Uh, thank you for that. And
that's a great answer. That's one of the reasons that
I went into the field of journalism when I was
in college because we wanted to be a part of
a trusted source. Uh. When we think back to the

(18:39):
school that you are now running, the walk to chron Kite,
that's what they always talked about it. If he didn't
say it, it wasn't true. I mean, people looked at
him as a trusted source. So and I think that's
still sort of exists today, but not so much because
there's so many people who have sort of self named

(19:01):
themselves as trusted sources. Right. Yeah. Yeah, So to to
give me an example, you know, I was reading about
Walter Cronkite, you know, you know recently, and you know
I spoke earlier about when he announced the assassination of
President Kennedy. Well, really the news was coming in from Dallas, uh,

(19:24):
pretty quickly, and really Walter had heard from news sources
maybe fifteen or twenty minutes before he had announced it
that you know, the president had died. But Walter really
held off on coming out with that right away, even
if some other news organizations were reporting it, because he

(19:45):
wanted to make sure that that it was truly factual.
He wanted to make sure that it was right. He
wanted to make sure that if he said it, that
he knew that he said that people were going to
take it as being the facts. And so he felt
a sense of response ability to make sure to hear,
you know, that he had you know, that it was,
that it was true before he announced it on air.

(20:07):
And so it's sort of just to read about how
he you know, deliberated over this for a long time,
for you know, for you know, for for several minutes
before he did it sort of gives you sort of
the insights in terms of his standards in terms of
you know, integrity, and his standards in terms of making
sure that he was you know, getting the facts straight.

(20:29):
And so I'm not I'm not saying that we don't
still see some of that. But but what I will
say is is that there are people who are more
concerned with you know, getting information out there quickly and
don't maybe not hold uphold that same level of standard
that that Walter had and and really providing the information

(20:50):
on something that would you know, would have such a
global impact as the death of President Kennedy. Thank you
for that. So dr back UH being part of the
school of communication in a world where everything is sort
of focused on stem UH and entrepreneurship, how do you

(21:14):
guys sort of compete for students in uh this current environment.
So what else say Louis is that there is a real, uh,
there's been a real passion, a real bubbling up of
of desire for you you know. It could partially be

(21:38):
because of what's happened to our society over the course
of the past year or so. You know. Part of
it could be because of the protests over George Floyd.
Part of it could be because people have you know,
want to challenge you know, the system and sort of
challenge the status quo. And part of it could be

(21:59):
because people, you know, there's a desire to get more
diverse story and more diverse storytellers at the table and
to tell, you know, the making sure that the experiences
of all people are being told. We're we are really
seeing you know, um, a real interest in journalism amongst

(22:19):
our students, really interesting communications. Our enrollment is actually up
here at the Cronkite School. Uh and we're you know,
I mentioned are now we've got roughly students and that's
you know, you know, somewhere around the high stool we've
ever been. And so you know, I get asked the
question all the time, is journalism dying? No, journalism is

(22:41):
not dying. What, you know, what's happening is is that
the business model for journalism is evolving and it's really
actually going back to more of what it used to
be when you had entrepreneurs You mentioned entrepreneurship, when you
had people who are entrepreneurs who really saw all the
value in serving a community or serving an audience with

(23:04):
information and then build products around that. That's why John
Johnson created you know, Ebony and Jet. He was an entrepreneur,
you know, he was a businessman, but saw the value
and really delivering a message to an audience. And so
to your question about where we how we compete. I
think that we compete pretty well, you know for students UM,

(23:29):
and I think that there's an opportunity for us to
compete even more. And the reason why I say that
is because we're seeing a lot of people who are
career switchers who may have had a career, you know,
an engineering, or who may have a have had a
career in law, or who may have had a career
in business, but found that they you know, that they

(23:53):
were really passionate about journalism and communications and then they're
coming to us now to get a master's to greed
in in an investigative journalism or to get a master's
degree in communications because they found that they just have
a true passion for wanting to connect to people. And
lastly I say is that I see opportunities for us

(24:14):
to really work from an interdisciplinary or transdisciplinary standpoint to
create new degree programs or new curricular offerings that really
speak to the presence of communications within those disciplines, especially
in the healthcare area, and how we can work with

(24:34):
UM the health care system and UM and and and
also with other some of the STEM programs UH to
really address the need for communications. So I see tremendous opportunities. Great,
we'll be right back with more of my interview after

(24:57):
this quick break. So, Dr Batts, we're here at waymaker.
Believe that every successful person has had at least one
way maker. You've had a tremendous journey in a tremendous career.

(25:18):
Can you tell us about some of the waymakers who
uh sort of intentionally intervene in your life? Sure? Well,
First and foremost, I really have to give honor to
my to my parents and my my grandparents who just
played a significant role in just molding and shaping me

(25:40):
and making me, you know, open to learning and really
taught me that you've just learned so much from people
and always being respectful and mindful of that. My grandfather,
my paternal grandfather, only had a fifth grade education, but
he was a serial entrepreneur. He started a cab company,

(26:02):
he was a portrait artist. He did he did. You know,
he's you know, supported you know, the family very very
well because he was an entrepreneur and thinker, and so
it's his mindset that you know that really I've taken
on in my life. And so when I think about,
you know, people who have influenced me my paternal grandfather,

(26:23):
uh l M. Bats Uh think about him quite a bit.
And then my father, uh Potento bats Senior, and he
passed away three years ago, but I think about you know,
I would love to be able to tell him and
talk to him now and and about the role that
I've been because he was a higher education administrator and

(26:44):
what drove him was really the desire to make a
difference in the lives of young people. And he worked
in career planning and placement at Virginia State, and he
just took a lot of pride in being able to
say the students who he worked with, what, you know,
the opportunities that they had gone on to and how
they were making a difference in society, and how he

(27:04):
had helped to guide them or prepare them in one
sort of way. And then of course my mother because
of her commitment to education and elementary education and just
you know, just making sure that you know that people
understood that education, you know, is the h is really
the key to get, you know, to advancement. But then
as I think about it, you know, the person who

(27:25):
you know truly showed me, you know, as you know,
beyond my parents, the person who really true, truly showed
me what I could do with my career in journalism
and my career in education. Is William R. Harvey, who
is the president of Hampton University. Dr Harvey um really
changed my life. Uh really with just one conversation, and

(27:48):
I'll tell the story. I was. I was, I was
a professor at Hampton, and I was walking across campus
and encounter Dr Harvey and he said, Hey, I've been
wanting to talk to you about being the director of
the William R. Harvey Leadership Institute. And so it was
to that point in my career there never had been

(28:08):
a job that I had received without applying for. And
he appointed me the director of the Leadership Institute in
his name, and then in the my and then in
the second conversation we had about it, I asked him,
you know, if he felt as though I should get
my doctoral degree in education, and he said yes. And

(28:29):
so that really just him that one conversation and it
just coming across campus and him telling me that he
wanted to make me the director of the Leadership Institute
really changed my life because I really wasn't thinking of
myself going into academic administration at that point. I was
not considering getting a doctor degree, and so if it

(28:52):
were not for that, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be here. Uh.
And I can say that uh certainty. And then you know,
so he, you know, he continues to be you know,
someone who has you know, really had a tremendous influence
on my life. And then there's a lot of other people,
uh as well that I think of, you know, people

(29:12):
within my community. I spoke of, you know, growing up
around Virginia State University, and it really is uh there
ettric Virginia, which is where I come from, a lot
of people don't know about it, but there were a
lot of educators connected to the university and really approaching
that whole mindset of it takes a village to raise
a child. I'm a product of that. So I'm just fortunate.

(29:35):
If anything that I was just um my parents, either
by by talking or by the stick I was, I
was taught to be open to listening to others and
the guidance of others. So if there's anything that I've
done right, I've been you know, it's it's that one
of the ongoing questions that I get and we hear

(29:57):
it waymaker get is you know, how do you get
a mentor or how do you find a way maker?
And you know, as you just described that a way
maker found you. Uh, tell our audience how should they
prepare to be found by a waymaker or to have

(30:20):
someone be a mentor to them? You know? That's that's
this ongoing question. Why did that person get picked and
I didn't get picked? Why did it happen for this person?
Why it didn't happen for me? Uh? What is that
it that someone sees in a person that says it's
worth me spending my time, effort, resources conversations with? Sure?

(30:45):
So the first thing is is that what people look
for is a sense of commitment to getting better, a
sense of commitment to a craft or or an endeavor,
and and that they can see within you a way

(31:05):
that they can help to make a difference in in
your life. You have to give, uh the way makers
sort of something tangible that they can help you with.
And you have to have a vision that they can
buy into, a vision for yourself or a vision for
something that you want to create. You have to give
them sort of an avenue or to be able to
connect with you. And so if you're That's first and

(31:27):
foremost is that you have to I would say, number one,
have a vision for yourself. Number two, i'd say is sometimes, yeah,
the waymakers find you, but sometimes you have to. You
have to find way makers, and you have to not
be shy about going to people who you feel as
though have done what you desire to do or have

(31:50):
something that you can learn from, you know them that
can help you along the way, and really asking them
for their help and their guidance, and not being shy
about that and communicating that, hey, I'm trying to get
this done. I need to learn, I need some support,
I need some you know, some education on how to
how to get to the next level. Can you help me?

(32:12):
And inevitably, I have found when I've sought this out,
that people are willing to give you something you know,
some more than others. You know. I've never had anybody
who I have asked for guidance and support that they
haven't given me at least something to think about. And
some have invested more in me than others. But there's

(32:32):
always something that you come away with. But the last
thing I would say, Louis is going back to what
I was originally saying is that you know, if you
are committed to something and committed to your two growing
and committed to doing well, it will also shine and
people will see that. They will see that you really
really committed to your work and committed to excellence and

(32:53):
what you're doing, and you will be noticed and people
who are looking to you'd be surprised. And who's watching
you when you don't know it? And uh, who's got
their eye on you? You know, the cream has a
way of showing itself. And the people who are looking
for the next level of talent to develop, they've got

(33:15):
their eye on you. And so just know that. So
just keep doing well where you are with what you're doing,
because the opportunity will come. Well. Dr Bats, your career
has been broad and long and expensive. Uh and you've
cut your teeth at HBCUs. All right, that's clearly how

(33:37):
important our HBC used in today's world to the African
American community. Oh, I would say, you know, they've always
been important. You know they were they were important from
a historical perspective. They become even more important now you
know the course of the past couple of years. You know,

(33:58):
they play an important role in terms of developing you know,
you know, talented individuals to prepare them for careers and
creating opportunities. And what the thing that makes HBCUs so
successful is just the experience of really, you know, being
at a place where you are surrounded by people who

(34:20):
care about you, who understand you know your experiences and
what you know your existence and what you have maybe
been through and maybe what you bring to the table,
and have a true investment in you and and your
you know, your development, and you know people who are
you know, on the faculty at at HBCUs. You know,

(34:41):
there's there's just a true commitment again to just developing
you know, uh, you know, students of color. And but
not to say that that doesn't happen at at at
predominantly white institutions, but every HBCU that I've worked with
or interface with, and I go back to my original
experience at at Virginia State, there's just that there's that commitment.

(35:06):
But then there's also that accountability and that you know,
there are people who have come along the path before
you who want to see you succeed, but who are
going to hold you accountable if you don't show up
for class. They're gonna be calling to say, Okay, why
weren't you in class today? Okay, you don't. You need
to be here and you know to to to to

(35:28):
develop and really want to see you do well. And
so you know, HBCUs have always played that role. They
continue to play that role. And I'm very, very you know,
thankful to see HBCUs get some of the financial support
that they've gotten over the course of the past year
or so from some philanthropic sources to support their mission,

(35:52):
because I think that their mission has become, you know,
clearer that you know now with some of the things
that we've had to confront in our society. Great final question,
Dr Bats, you are the new dean at the prestigious
Walk to Cronkite School to Journalism. Let's go out by

(36:14):
telling our audience what is the unique value proposition that
that school gives a student today. So here's your here's
your sisty sixty second elevator sales pitch. Just take it away,
all right. So, if you are someone who has a
desire for a career in journalism and communications and to

(36:36):
be able to come to a place where you are
where innovation is pushed, where you have an opportunity to
work on a variety of platforms, to get hands on
experience in learning the craft of journalism and communications, to
be able to speak to a global audience. UH Walter,
Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication is the

(36:58):
place for you. Thank you so much.