Amy Lee

Of Evanescence.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Wefts. That's fivecast.
My guest today is the one and only Amy Amy.
You're in your old studio. Your people say that you're
very technologically savvy, so tell me about that.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
That's really funny considering that I was just saying I
always messed this up, and for once I had it
working right from the get go. Yeah, I guess I started.
You know, what can I say? Like, we make our demos.
Been doing that for twenty plus years at this point.
So learning pro tools and all that, it's been a
major instrument in my life.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
So in the old days, you used to have a
Portis studio, et cetera. How'd you start recording?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, when we were in high school, the guy that
we started the band together, Ben Moody, it was all
about whatever we get our hands on. It wasn't like
pro tools back then. It was like an eight track
or a sixteen track recorder where you record some and
then you bounce them down, you know, until you run
out of room and just like making songs like that.
So that just has evolved over the years as technology

(01:16):
has changed and become something where I can use more
and more from home on the actual records.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
So today you record in pro tools or logic? What
do you use pro tools?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
I've actually been using pro tools since like right after
we finished our first big tour, which was fallen. We
got home and I had our in your monitor guy
come over and just like spend a day. I was like,
just teach me how to do this so I can
do it myself. And then I've always had wonderful engineer
type dudes in my life that I can call and

(01:49):
be like, help, I'm stuck. So here I am.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Are you generally good with tech?

Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's really just a necessity thing.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
No, I kind of I'm where I would call myself
an analog girl in a digital world. But when you
care about something enough, you know you find a way.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
So so, how much equipment do you have at home?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I got this lovely Telefunken Mike that I've been using
this year. Now you forty seven. I really I've got
a lot of keyboards. I've been using the profit more
than any of them in the last couple of years
as we've been working on this new music. What else
have I got? Just lots of keyboard stuff, a good
little pro tool set up, I don't like it to

(02:32):
get too complicated because I get bogged down in that.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know, it's like you spend too much. I hate it.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
It's the worst thing ever when you come out you
want to work on something and the stuff won't work
and you just want to get your idea down and
not deal with you know, when you're fiddling with the
remote how it's the most annoying thing in the world.
Just drains your energy. So I try to keep it
fairly simple.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
So when do you get your ideas all.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
The time, all the time? Anytime? Sometimes it takes a
long time.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well, I mean, okay, so you're coming up with ideas
all the time some people. For me, I get good
ideas in the shower. It's like, if I'm sitting in
front of the computer and trying to come up with ideas,
that's hard. Yeah, But if I'm.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Doing something else, why I totally agree with that.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Usually, like I guess, driving in the car, I like
to walk in the woods, walk down the street. I
lived in Brooklyn for thirteen years, and it was always
really inspiring to me. If I ever felt like, I
don't know, I needed inspiration or just to clear my head,
to just get out of the house and walk put
headphones on or not, and just walk around the neighborhood

(03:35):
and like smell other people's cooking and hear the music
they're playing and overheard conversations and all that.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
So when Amy Lee walks down the street to people recognize.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Her sometimes not all the time, probably not as much
as you'd think, you know, it kind of depends it. Actually,
it is dependent on if we're like actively have a
single out at the moment, because it's like if you're
in somebody's mind, they're like, oh, hey, there she is.
But I generally like to go pretty young. I don't
wear the black eyelander in like real life very much.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Okay, And how do you deal with it when someone
comes up to you?

Speaker 2 (04:10):
I think people, honestly, people are mostly pretty nice. People
are if they're I don't know if it's like specific
to like our type of music or what, but usually
it's people being cool, just being like, oh my god,
I've loved you since high school or like that one
song changed my life, and you're just like thanks and
you go on your way. It's it's not so good
when they follow you home. That's that's the part where

(04:30):
you got to kind of go, okay.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, being a woman in music to what degree or
stalker is a problem.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
It's it's been a problem. It's been a real problem
from from early days.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Actually, Okay, are these people just mentally ill or they infatuated?

Speaker 2 (04:54):
I I do, honestly like the ones that have been serious,
you know, like a serious problem. It is mental illness,
and it's it's you kinda. I mean, I've learned how
naturally what you want to do is what are they thinking?
You know, like get inside the head of somebody and
you can't like something's broken in there. So I try to,

(05:17):
you know, we have as much grace as possible at
the same time, like there is there is a line
that has to be drawn, and it is. It is
different being being a woman, and it's different having a family.
You know, it's not just about protecting myself. There's a
bigger layer there where security has become you know, really
just important. Obviously it's important. But yeah, it's funny you

(05:40):
brought that.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Up quickly in the interview.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's definitely very real in my life and I will
talk about it very much.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
So having these bad experiences, does that make you anxious
about getting close to your fans.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
H I I have Well there, I think it's more
like just knowing the balance, knowing line, knowing the balance
of you know, where's the line where there's a there's
a difference between people that really know you and that
you really know and the fans. And I love our fans,
but you do have to be careful. You definitely do

(06:14):
have to draw that line. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Well, let me give you an example from my own life.
The people who send the longest emails are the weirdest people,
and the people have to be afraid of They're passionate,
as opposed to someone to just send you a couple
of sentences or apparently sure. Sure, My point being the
way I say, you know, ten percent of the public
is certifiably nuts. You just don't know what ten percent

(06:38):
it is.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's true, It's true. Yeah, I can get a lot
worse than a long email.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
To what degree are you available online?

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I feel like I'm less available online than most people
these days. It didn't used to be such a sort
of I don't know, essential piece being constantly you know,
engaging directly because it well, it didn't used to really
be possible. But when we started out it was like
there was my Space, and I feel like Facebook was
maybe just beginning, but it wasn't even like I didn't

(07:12):
even there was chat rooms like we would do like
a fun like I don't remember what we called him,
like a log thing like a little thread we can
go and you could always see the conversation like frozen there,
which was cute. But for the most part, that sort
of started happening later. And there's I feel like there's
a really good side as well as a dark side

(07:34):
to that. And the good side is I used to
get I don't know, a lot of anxiety doing interviews, honestly,
because I found, you know, we came out to see
when I was twenty one, honestly, just a couple years
at high school, and you just, you know, suddenly like
in this big arena with everybody looking at you and

(07:54):
talking about you and judging you and whatever, and trying
to see, okay, is this legit? Or I love you
so much?

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Whatever it is?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
So all these interviews, you know, when it gets put
in print and on a big platform and your face
is on the cover and all those things, and you
don't have any control over like how that comes across
it's different. It's school that we're doing a podcast because
you can hear the tones of our voices and like
what we're saying. But I feel like so often, you know,

(08:22):
things get sort of misunderstood or translated in a different way.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
I written down wrong, and I oftentimes.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Felt like people felt like they had a story to
write in their mind before we ever really spoke, when
it was like, you know, just summon us up, who's
this new kid in town kind of thing. Now I
feel like I can just say something or clear something up,
or if something's a misunderstanding or any drama, it's like, hey, guys,
here's a deal.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
You know it's not don't have to be a big thing.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, I will say the press always gets it wrong
basically dealing with me and I without telling my own examples.
But let's go back to the anxiety. Obviously you were
on the stage before. I mean it's sometimes tens of thousands.
Let's go back to high school or maybe your regular life. Now,

(09:08):
do you have social anxiety of any degree talking to people?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
I don't know. I don't really feel that way, but
maybe we all do to some degree. Yeah, sure, there's
times when you don't want to be on and you
have to be on. But I mean, I don't know,
maybe you deal with that too. It's just one of
those things where you have to get in the right
mindset of like, all right, it's just talking. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Oh ky, social anxiety.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Sure, I mean after pandemic listen, after that, having to
go back on stage again was weird. It was really
really weird at first, even masked up alone in your
house wearing pjs for like a year and a half,
and then it's like, cool, get on stage in front
of like seven thousand people, no problem.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
I feel like we're back though.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Okay, at this point in time, other than your husband
and your child, do you have any people who were friends,
forget business, who you're in contact with on a regular basis.
Oh yeah, of course, Well not necessarily, of course there
are people. Okay. Oh, so would you call one of
those people and say, hey, assuming they live near you, hey,

(10:15):
let's get together and say are you more waiting for
them to suggest it, and you'll say yes or no.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
It's definitely both.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
I have.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I wouldn't I wouldn't be me if I didn't have
real people and real friends in my life that I
wanted to be around and called up and hung out
with My best friend is maya hair and makeup artists
for the last twenty years, trying to think when she
actually came on the road. We met in high school
and we're friends. And I went on the road and

(10:47):
I was out for like I think six months without her,
just doing our thing, and it was lonely and stressful,
and I was the only girl ever all the time.
I remember, I forget why it came up. And somebody's like,
why don't you just have somebody, you know, do your
hair and stuff? And I was like, I could do that, really,

(11:07):
They're like, uh yeah, and I was. I called her
and I was like, Hey, would you want to like
quit the salon like for a year or whatever and
like come on tour and do my hair and makeup
and we get to hang out and see the world.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
And she was like, yes, hell, yes, I would love
to do that.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
And we've been doing that ever since. I couldn't do
it without Beth Wilson.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
How do you decide how much to pay a friend?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Oh, that's hard. I would say, always overpay your friend.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
I would think so, but you know, it's weird when
you mix friendship and money.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Sure, it is, of course it is. That's why it's
a true friendship.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Like and I think you know, we're all in that
situation being in a band together and working together. We
are we are making money, you know, and that is
a part of it. But we also have to have trust.
We also have to really love what we're doing and
love each other and want to I feel like that.
When it's not like that, that's when things start breaking down.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
You know, I'm beating a dead horse with anxiety thing.
But since you mentioned I want to focus. Okay, okay,
you were in high school, You're going to class like
anybody else. Are you more of you know, there's some
people who are constantly talking, they're the life of the party.

(12:22):
Than the other extreme, there's the loner. Obviously you're not
that person. But are you the type of person who's
more Aggressive's got a bad connotation, but more putting yourself
out there in social situations, not work situations or not
bearing your music.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
I'm more I'm yeah, I'm a natural introvert. Like I
I not because I'm afraid. It's not about anxiety. It's
because I love being by myself or like with one person.
I'm just sort of an intimate person. So, and I
love to make stuff. I love to be quiet and
be by myself create It's usually music, but also art

(13:03):
and crafting and or just being with a bestie. Having
a deep conversation is so much more me than go
into a show or go into a party where there's
a bunch of people talking and it's noisy and you
gotta keep your brain constantly moving from one thing to
the next. That, yes, my my favorite is definitely the
calmer one.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
But I do both, I mean right, right, But.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
You answered the question being a naturally introvert, et cetera. Yeah,
So how does a natural introvert wanting a loane time
cope with having a child?

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Aw, he's he's my favorite. There's I mean, I don't
know if you have kids, but I do not have kids.
I you can't be prepared for, like how much love
for me personally? Like I didn't know that I had
that extra chamber in my heart just waiting to open

(13:57):
up and love somebody so much. I love my son.
I would love to be around him all the time.
I need space for my brain to be quiet. Or
we're actually wired kind of similarly He likes it quiet too,
so like we can just sit and be quiet and
enjoy something together without constantly mommy this, mommy that he's
not like that.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
He's a cool kid.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Is he aware that you're Amy Lee performer? Yes?

Speaker 2 (14:19):
And he has just over the past like year or
so maybe two, really reached that age where he thinks
it's really cool and realizes that it isn't normal. I
don't know if maybe in the beginning he thought every's
mom was a rock star, but now he knows it's
special and it's really cool and he likes to tell everybody.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
So how does he deal with that with his friends?

Speaker 3 (14:40):
He has one friend that like teases me. He's like, oh,
I have a nesscence is here.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I'm like, shut up, Okay, I gotta stop right now. Okay,
in that I know you've been at. Evan Essence is
a word I've used since college. Okay, not regular the public.
How did it become evanescence?

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Well, that's why.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
That's why it was one of those things where every
every every word that or or a couple of words
that we were trying to think of to name the
band back in those early early days reminded us of
something else, and I think, you know, we really wanted
something that was like nothing else. We wanted to be

(15:26):
like nothing else, and we didn't want there to be
any like previous connotation with the words. It was literally
just became this like okay, just start looking for cruel
words in the dictionary.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
And you know the meaning is important.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
You know, it's something about it, but it's it's more
of just like it's almost like an adjective.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
But evanescence has a specific meaning. Yes, the concept of evanescence.
Is it really just about the cool word, or it
is about something being here and disappearing whatever.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
I don't it wasn't that deep as far as the
meaning of it, to be very honest, I think it's
come to mean more over time, Like a lot of
the stuff from back then just sort of like searching,
you know, making sounds and figuring out what my voice
sounds like, and taking the things that we're into, you know,
from movie scores to like contemporary nineties music and all

(16:14):
kinds of stuff classical and then making sounds that I
don't know, Naming that is hard. I didn't want to
like stick it in the box of any particular genre
or connotation. So it's like, just find something beautiful and
it's interesting. It's kind of funny, I don't it certainly
wasn't intentional, but it's interesting because like over time, we

(16:35):
are definitely a band who has like appeared and been
doing our thing and been very active and all that,
and then just sort of disappeared for a while and
come back, you know, when when when the time is right,
when when it's in my heart, you know, and when
when things line up like they're supposed to. So I
don't know, maybe it's it's gotten a meaning over the years,

(16:56):
but no, there's not a huge one, not really.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Okay, people are interacting with you all the time, can
they spell eminescence?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Not always, you know, not always usually usually by now,
come on, we've got time.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Okay, back to you know, being an introvert. So I
realize you have a child, but left to your own devices,
you a morning person, night person.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Oh night very much vampire hours naturally, but yeah, you
can't be that when you're a mom.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
So I was up six twenty this morning.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
So you say that you have ideas all the time,
but do you find late night more inspiring than during the.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Day generally, yeah, because it just feels like extra time.
It's like nobody's waiting on me. There's not something else
I'm supposed to be doing. You know, this is the
free secret out. So I feel like naturally things kind
of come to you then. But I don't know. I
all throughout the day, like I'll think of a little
melody idea or some like hear like a little bit

(18:12):
of a song or something in my head and just
grab my voice notes and stick it in there. And
I've got I mean, there's over a thousand in here.
So then when it's time to go into the studio
and play, it's like, oh, what was I thinking about earlier?
Scroll through the notes, find whatever that was, or just
come in here.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
And when I don't have an idea, I.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Love to just play with with keyboards, play with somethcizors,
turn it on, find an arpeggiator, hold one note and
start singing stuff.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
That's always fun.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, people have different styles. What would trigger you wanting
to make an album?

Speaker 2 (18:51):
It's interesting you say album because it doesn't have to
be that anymore, right, like make a song, and it's
but we do we make albums. I think that that's
something that the fans want. I think that it's beautiful
when you can come up with a full book of
music and put it out, it feels really good.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's also a big undertaking.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
So my thought isn't usually ever like I'm gonna go
sit down and we're gonna make a whole album right now.
As much as I, you know, want that, that seems daunting.
So for me, it's getting inspired about a single idea,
about a song by a cool collaboration, you know, or
you know, we we came up with something that feels new,

(19:33):
and it's like, oh, let's make more music that sounds
like that, finding a great producer, lots of things. We're
in the thick of it right now. And honestly, the
last few years years from us have been I have
really felt like this upward trajectory this many years in
so like playing shows, I'm trying to think when to

(19:57):
start the timeline from, but honestly, coming from the pandemic,
let's start there. Like we kind of just ramped up,
like each tour was like a bigger one and a
bigger one and a bigger one for whatever reason, and
we had the bitter truth, which is our last album
that we loved so much, having new music to play,
having something fresh to say. We had I felt like

(20:18):
I had so much to say when we were making
music in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, that was that was
the big thing. And all of a sudden we were
down this path and getting things out that felt like
they're putting something good into the world, something useful, something
where we could connect and bring people together in a
positive way. But I now like at this point, running

(20:40):
off of that, I don't want I want to keep playing.
We're having a great time, the band is in a
great place, the shows are bigger than ever, and I
need new songs, Like I don't want to play those
same songs anywhere. They're awesome, But like I'm I'm changing still.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
I guess what I'm asking the Stones legendarily come in, Well,
you know, I have an idea. The Eagles did that
a certain way. It's talking about classic acts. I guess
what I'm saying is you could come in with a song,
platform fully formed, you got a verse, ro out of chorus, whatever.
But it's different from sitting Well, let me go to

(21:15):
my notes app and see what I have.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, see those both exist in my life for sure,
Like if we're gonna get together, hey guys, let's get
there and do some writing. We do that all the time,
just like honestly, I've been getting more into like camps.
Like we have a tour and we have a show
on Friday and Saturday, and then we don't have another
show until like the next Thursday. I'll be like, well,
instead of everybody going home, why don't we grab an

(21:38):
Airbnb set up in the living room, you know, at
like a listenable level, and like jam and see what
we got. Whenever we do those sessions, it's fun to
just jam out of nothing. But I always show up
with ideas like I got this cool chorus, like let's
make a song.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
You know. Will you ever sit there you're all in
the living room and you say, let's go through the notes.
App this sounds good?

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like what about this idea? Hold on?

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Well, all listen to it and be're like okay, and
then like jam it on the piano.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Well, recently you've done a certain number of collaborations.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Collaboration and working alone is very different. What are your
feelings there?

Speaker 2 (22:17):
I I feel like I've grown into it more and
more loving it, embracing it.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
I think after falling.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
And the guy that I started the band with, he
left like in the in the tour on our first album,
and that was a good thing for us.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
It was the only way.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
But it there was I just felt that I had
so much to prove and I was excited to like
I was ready to prove it, but I had a
ton to prove because the easiest thing to say is, oh, well,
it's not the original thing anymore, Like she can't do.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
It by herself.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
So I had to. I had to prove that I
could do it myself. So it was super important to
me back then to do everything myself. I didn't want
any help, and immediately, of course the label saying, okay,
we need co writers. Now, let's go and do it
the way everybody does it. And I was like, I
don't want that. I'm not just the singer upfront, I'm
I'm that let me do that, and you know, used
my band, you know, and that was it really important

(23:16):
for me at the time. It was.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
It's still important. It's still a big part of me.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
But I at this point after our second album, which
I love and I'm so proud of and it was
such a journey where I felt like I got this
you know kind of attitude. And then the third one
where you know, our self titled album was very much
a band album for the first time. Like that whole
situation I described about sitting in a room and jamming together.
I never would have done that back in high school.

(23:41):
That wasn't what it was. We were a studio of
bad or just a couple of kids making stuff and
recording it as we went. We sort of had to
build the band to make the album, so you know,
at that point it was like, oh we went to
rock school. Nick Raskilnic sat and was like, all right, guys,
play me a song, no tracks, no nothing, just you guys,
just jam in the room. Let's hear, I don't know,
bring me to life. And uh, it.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Was so funny because we hadn't played.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Like in a year or year and a half, and
we certainly wouldn't do like no no no synth, no
no tracks, no nothing, okay, and we sucked. It's not terrible,
it was so bad and we were all just like,
oh my gosh, I don't even want to work with us,
and he was like, all right, all right, we got
some work to do, and it was such a good

(24:23):
exercise because it forced us to really like grow as
musicians in that setting. If you can make it sound
great like a garage band, then whatever else is going
to go on, you know, as a part of it,
that's great, but that's gravy, like the band is strong.
And to even just like be in that setting and

(24:44):
write write some songs or even pieces of songs like
in that way was really inspiring to me at the
time because it was it was new and that that
so then Bitter Truth fast forward another bunch of years,
because it always takes me forever. Then it was like
this beautiful combination of remembering the roots of being a
studio artist and using all the elements and the production

(25:08):
and making sauces in here in my studio and together,
but also being able to jam in the room and
write like that and have the best of both worlds
was really awesome and cool and inspiring. And now like
we're still on that, that's still where we are. But
this music that we're making now is once again more
studio focused. More it's taking me back to the beginning

(25:32):
in all of the best ways and making me feel comfortable.
Your question was about collaboration. I don't feel like I
have to prove that anymore. Like I know what I
can do. I've proven what I can do. I'm great
at what I do. But there's nothing but gain that
can come from trying to work with other people and
see what they can bring to the table, you know,

(25:54):
and see what can happen when you write together. And
I've had a lot of writing sessions, some about you
know me and.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Some about other people's projects over the.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Last ten years, honestly, which have been so life giving
and such a great experience and education for me to
learn seeing the window in other people's process and learning
new things to try. You know, it can only make
you grow. You can always say, you know what, this
isn't working, and sometimes it doesn't work.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
But when you catch lightning with somebody, that's great.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
You just I don't I have no ego about that anymore.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Okay, If you write the song yourself, it's completely uncompromised,
it's what you want to do. Then there's the concept,
which is really how most people do it. They have
a song, but then the band adds something. Okay, right,
that's one stuff. Then there's the other thing. Two people
are going to sit in the room or else they're

(26:50):
going to send stuff back and forth with email, right,
and no one's going to agree one hundred percent of
the time.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
And in addition, inherently having someone else, it's not completely
your vision. Let me go once. I know a guy
in publishing forever, he's a big believer. There's all the
great slaw you know, songwriters a collaboration. I don't always
agree with him. So is collaboration? Do you sometimes say wow,

(27:19):
I would never have come up with that, this is
so great, or what we have is good. It was
give and take, or that's good. But really I like
what I do myself the best.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I think I've done everything you just describe by the
way and all of it recently, Like I've done every
style I like. I like to not be stuck to
one process. But it absolutely depends on who you're writing
with or working with whoever it is that you're inviting
into that very intimate space, like what's going to happen
and the arguments, you know, I want to say arguments.

(27:51):
They're usually fun arguments, But all of that push and
pull is either going to be something where there's trust,
you know, and you get to and awesome place, or
there's not and you don't really like what the other person's.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Prying at the table, and then that you know that
it's not working.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
But I feel also like it is important to have
somebody who's the leader and who's going to at the
end of the day say you know what I like
a not be and that's what we're gonna go with.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
We're not going to sit here and argue about it.
And that's me.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
So whether it's writing with the band, whether it's doing
something with the producer, whether it's co writer's situation, or
we're doing things together, I'm gonna at the end of
the day and make the call, you know, pretty much.
But at the same time, like if you're bringing in
people that you respect and you want them in the mix,
you know, and they're feeling then it's not like I'm

(28:39):
shooting stuff down that much. It's more like, oh, yeah,
except go over here and then we do this and
everybody's loving it.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Okay, let's be No. You've had a couple of big
successes recently with collaboration. How did these come about and
how did you actually do it?

Speaker 3 (28:55):
They're all different. Where do you want to start?

Speaker 1 (28:57):
I'll leave it to you.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
You want me to pick something?

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Okay, Well, wait, when's this going to come out?

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Whenever you want?

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Okay, Well, i'm a I have a really awesome collab
coming out in just a few days.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
It's not going to come out before a few days,
so okay.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
So uh this, I'll just start with my most recent one.
Courtney La Plant and Poppy and me have this three
way cool collab. And it's also a clab with Jordan Fish.
I feel like it really came from him. It came
from him and Poppy, and it started because Jordan and
I have been working together quite a bit. We worked

(29:37):
on the Halsey song I did earlier this year together. Uh.
We met a few years ago when he was a
premier The Horizon, and now we've been working on songs for
our album together, which has been incredible. He's like a
missing piece in my life.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Anyway. He called me a round I don't know Christmas
time and was like, hey, I have this idea.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Check it out.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Like I was just thinking, wouldn't be so awesome? On'm
I working with?

Speaker 2 (30:00):
We're talking about a colah blah blah, and he just
it was just an idea of of the three of
us on a track. It's kind of where that whole
thing started. And I was like, I mean that would
be amazing. We gotta, you know, think of a song.
And I think he's kind of the master of just
like whipping stuff up really quick that sounds hypey and good,
but it's fast, just on his laptop and coming up
with he's just a good songwriter, so and making it

(30:21):
sound saucy enough in the bedeo that you can imagine,
you can imagine what it's going to be. And he
sent a song starter idea. Oh my god, the weirdest thing.
So this is a first. So he sent me this
the beginning of the song. It's called the end of
You Now, End of You. So it starts with this
really cool ambient stuff and a vocal and the idea

(30:43):
is it would be my voice, and he he, I
don't know what the app is. Apparently there's a bunch
of them, but you can just like type Amy Lee
like the sound of my voice.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
And he sung it.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
He like sung a melody you know, no no, no, no, no,
no whatever, but like type my name in. So it
sounded kind of like me, and it was wild, like
because I was laughing. I was like, how did you
do that?

Speaker 3 (31:05):
What did you do? And he was like, that's my voice.
I just put it through. And I was like, that's
amazing because it's convincing.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
I guess it's made up of pieces of things that
I've done and I don't know how it worked, but anyway,
he just like could show me that vibe and they
had that start going. That was a really good start already,
and I was like, I love it.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
Let's do this.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
So when I get home and I've got my pro tools,
I'm like, send me you know, the instrumental and you know,
by itself and if I need anything else whatever, and
I just play and come up with ideas and cut
and paste and whatever, and we send back and forth
a bit.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
We were kind of the same.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
And then later on after we had a solid start going,
he and Poppy came over to my house that came
in this room and.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
We just sat here.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
It was it was interesting because the beginning was for
me to sing, and it was like mostly they're already
like the first verse and the start of the chorus,
and then it's like okay, like let's wrap up this
chorus and we figured that out and I was like, Okay,
now let's work on the second verse. This will be
Poppies verse. And it was fun because it was like
she wrote like a lot of the lyrics that I'm singing,
and I wrote a lot of a lot of the

(32:05):
lyrics that she is saying.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
And then it's like, okay, we need a bridge. Let's
bring Courtney and let's do this whole thing.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
And Courtney's band got involved a little bit, and it
was just sort of this everybody in the pool, very
collaborative but very remote process. And those can work like
if everybody's savvy, you know, and everybody can kind of
throw their shit in the computer and throw it in
for demo land until we do it for real or whatever.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
I think that works great.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
So we made this really killer song and it really
just came out of just a concept and then make
it come true with whatever tools available wherever we were,
like throwing down vocals from around the world.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
There you go, so you you don't do it Nashville's style,
where we're meeting at ten in the morning, we're all
shit in the room. By one pm, we're going to
have a song.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
I cannot do that. That is not in my DNA.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
I can.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
I have put myself in situauation similar to that to
write for other people, and they have been productive. But
the part that you said where it's like we're gonna
be done in a couple, there's no way I have
to walk into a writing situation, whatever it is, with this,
with my band or with somebody else, thinking it's okay
if nothing happens, like it's okay.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
If you go home tonight and you don't.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Have a song, like, don't feel like a failure, because
I think you have to just try things. You just
have to go down the road and don't shoot everything
down that comes into your head, allow it to live
for a minute before you decide, ah, this is garbage,
let's start over. So sometimes you go down a lot
of roads that could have been cool but didn't work
out like you wanted, and you just got to just

(33:41):
keep playing until it happens. And I think opening your
heart is the greatest ingredient. Just have an open heart,
don't have worry or a schedule so much like, oh
I can't do this, Just relax, open your mind, think
about something else. If you don't feel like like, go
take a walk, go do something else. Come back to

(34:02):
it later when it's night and you're feeling moody, like,
just allow the spirit to move you, because I feel
like that ingredient is the most essential ingredient and it's
it really is an ingredient that's beyond my control, which
makes it magic. The magic comes from something beyond me
saying this is what I want to write. That's not

(34:23):
really how it is. It's not math. It has to
sort of come from something.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Okay, before we get back to the magic. Does it
make any difference if you're collaborating in person as opposed
to online sending things back and forth.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
There's something pretty cool about being in person.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
I will say I again, I've had cool success with
remote after life was a totally remote thing. Alex Seber
and I were apart, like laying stuff down and writing ideas.
But when you can be together in the moment and
somebody says how about this, you know, and you're like, ooh,
do that, but go up not down, and then I'm
gonna jump in. It's just different when you have the

(35:10):
instant back and forth because you can try it four
ways before agreeing on which way. You're going to go
with that particular turnaround before going to the next section,
You know what I mean? Yeah, there is definitely something
special about being in the room.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Okay, the magic this is I feel you can separate
the artists from everybody else. There are a few people
going back to ancient history Steely Dan Eagles, who build
things step by step. But you know when you create
an eleven, but you can't create an eleven every day.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
No okay.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
So as you say, you don't have to have an
album today, but your audience wants an album. If you
were waiting to put out an album with elevens, that
might be eleven years right, So how do you deal
with As I say, it comes rarely, we go this
is unbelievable, and as you say, you channel it. It

(36:09):
just comes from some place you don't know, and you say,
I gotta be buy a keyboard right away, I gotta
lay it down. It's fah okay. How about the rest
of the stuff.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
You know, we talked about time in between. Like my
standard that I've always held myself like two is it
has to be at least as good as falling in
my head to me, Like whether or not anybody else
thinks so. So I've never allowed time to pressure me

(36:41):
into putting it out until I really truly did feel
like there were all elevens for me. And sometimes that
takes five years. So I have to live with it forever.
I love all of our music that we put out.
I don't have to sit back and go, oh, except
that one.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
But you really, you're typical. You don't listen to your
old records.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
To you, I mean, I don't really have a choice
because I mean, well, we're playing them live, and that's different.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
We have a lot of stun.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
That's different. You're playing it live. It's different from dropping
the needles, so to speak, on an old rerec.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
I don't usually drop, but once in a whiles were like, oh, yeah,
I remember that thing. I'm gonna listen to that right now.
Not usually because I've listened to it. I have listened
to it like thousands of times as we were making it.
I'm a total perfectionist in the recording process.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Okay, but let's say, for whatever reason, you listen five
to ten years later, do you WinCE and say, oh,
I shouldn't have done that, or I wish i'd put
this in whatever I mean not yes.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yes, yes, the answer is yes, But I mean mostly
I'm not going, oh my god, I hate it so
much like now and any of that stuff. Really it's
from the first one. It's it's only then because I
can really hear.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
The child.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
I can hear me as a little kid. I can
hear me just figuring stuff out and being nineteen and
not really knowing necessarily how that structure is supposed to work,
but just doing something close, you know, I don't know.
I hear lyrics sometimes too, when you're younger, you're like,
oh God, you were young.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
How do you end up working with Halsey?

Speaker 2 (38:14):
That one was out of nowhere. I have to back
it up to Fight Like a Girl because that's how
it started. So this movie Ballerina where those that song
and fight like a Girl uh with KFLA were both
for this movie Ballerina from the John Wick world. So Tyler,

(38:34):
Tyler Bates, he's awesome.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Do you know who that is?

Speaker 2 (38:36):
He's a he's a well he's the score composer for
all the John Wicks, but also like Sucker Punch and
just a whole bunch of stuff, and he's just a
very cool, cool music I don't know how I'm not
describing it well. He's awesome.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
We've been friends for a long time and always would
like talked about we would like to work together, but
hadn't had a reason or found the opportunity, and just
one of those things. So he called me around in December,
also same time, everything just at once. This time. It
was just like so many things kind of came at
me at the same time, and I just was just yes,

(39:11):
just saying yes, working really hard, saying yes to all
the good stuff. Tyler was like, Hey, I think I
found our thing, you know, working on this thing for Lionsgate.
It's about a chick kicking ass and Lionsgate actually mentioned you,
and I was like, oh my god, they'd be perfect.
And I actually know her so and I was like okay.
So we started working on a song that he came
up with the start for remotely and sent to me,

(39:31):
and I came up with the you know, melody stuff
over here, and Halsey was in the conversation that I'd
heard like Lionsgate talking about to you, like oh, wouldn't
it be cool? And I was like, Yeah, that would
be cool. So it was just one of those things
where I tried to reach out to her, but I
had I don't know her or I didn't so I
hadn't gotten a hold of her and just sort of

(39:52):
moved on. And then halfway down the road on that song,
she reached out to me and she was like, Hey,
I have a song idea like that we should do,
like for this movie. And I was like, well, I'm
already working on one, you know, please don't take my job.
But she was like well whatever, She's like, I honestly,

(40:12):
I'd just like to work with you, whether it's for
the movie or not, Like I think it'd just be
really cool to do something together. And here's the start,
and she had the verse the first person chorus like
demoed of the Hand that Feeds and I thought it
was so good, Like right away, I was like, well,
this is a hit song, okay, And I was like
I'd love to I'd love to finish this with you
and sing this with you. So that was it was

(40:35):
just her coming out of nowhere. And I've, you know,
of course, behind this. He's like, hey, we can.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Have two right? Can we have two songs like please?

Speaker 2 (40:41):
And they were like yeah, we'd love to have two twos.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Even better, and it was just this cool thing.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
So now at the end of the movie, there's two
in a row that I got to be a part of,
two different really cool collaborations. And I think it just
comes from artists. And Kaflay is me on the other
end of that, reaching out to her because we're, you know,
working on this song and I love her. I'm a
big fan, and she's in my head. She's in my
heart because I listened to her and I heard her
voice when we started writing the Bridge. I was like, Oh,

(41:05):
wouldn't that be cool? So I just found a number
and called her and that ended up being an incredible thing.
So I think like we all get inspired by each other,
you know, and when you have your heart open and
have that maybe a little bit of a magical, I
don't know, spunk, like you can think, hey, anything's possible.

(41:27):
Why not? Why wouldn't Why why should I just call?
Why should I just try? And then you do, and
you know, so much of the time it's been more
than I would have guessed. Like ten years ago, people
want to work together, like they're like, yeah, hell yeah,
I'd love to make something with you.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
So okay, you talk about not knowing Halsey, are you
the type of person who's just in your own vertical?
You've certainly been on the road with people, but generally speaking,
do you tend to know and stay in contact with
other The musicians are really in your own world. Unless
it's business, you don't know them.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
I make connections with people and stay in touch with them,
like you meet. All kinds of you have, all kinds
of you know, fun friends, acquaintances. On tour, we love
to hang out with bands that we play with. We
do we hang out backstage. We're not the people that
stay by ourselves. We're the people coming around. Like I
My rider on tour is like three bottles of wine,

(42:23):
a cheese plate, and a veggie tray. And after the show,
everybody gets cleaned up and does their thing. I grab
all that stuff and I walk to wherever I hear
somebody's playing music.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
It's usually the other dress room of.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
The band, the guy's room, and it's Will, our drummer.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
We call it club.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Willis playing whatever eighties metal to today future rock.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
And I'm like, all right, and I'm bringing this stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
And we hang out and we leave the door open,
and I want I want to have an experience where
I get to know whoever we're playing with. I care
about the bands that if we're headlining, like the bands
that we choose to come out with us, I really
put thought into that. That's my opportunity to like curate,
to show something great, you know, to our fans that
maybe they haven't heard before that is, you know, up

(43:09):
and coming, or something that maybe they missed that I
love that I want to uplift or somebody that is
inspiring to me because I'm hearing that before our show too.
I want it to be something great. I want to
give them a great show from start to finish. So
we generally like hang out with people that we like
with music.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
That okay, that's on the road. When you're at home,
are you emailing these people or it's til you go
back on the road and you see them again at home.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I have people that are that are close to my
heart that I have stayed close with.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Emma Emma are bass player.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Now we've been like that for many years before she
entered this band. We met on the road in seven
when she was playing with Sick Puppies and we played
together on a tour and we just clicked like, especially
when it's it's especially women in my life.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
We're kind of you know, we're still the rarer breed
on the road.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
And when you meet in the heavy world and when
you meet somebody in like heavy rock music, that's we
end up having a lot in common. Nine times out
of ten just because of the experience. It's just different.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Okay, you've been doing this for a couple of decades now, yeah,
but when you first go on the road, if you're
a guy. Now we live in the cell phone camera error, Jeff.
They say they want to you know, sex, drugs in
rock and roll, and there are a bunch of guys.
I know, some people legendary people never left the hotel room,
didn't drink, didn't drug whatever. But generally speaking, people like

(44:37):
to have a good time. What's it like being the woman?
Do you feel forced to be one of the guys?
Do you feel the other what's it like? Certainly when
you started out.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
That's different. I was gonna say, I don't feel any
of that. I feel happy and surrounded by people that
I trust. But in the beginning, no, absolutely not. In
the beginning it was dangerous. There is a lot more
situations where you kind of need it. Be smart and
be aware and remove yourself from the situation. Sometimes that's
just being young and being female. And I we didn't

(45:13):
start out with security either, and we learned. I learned
Beth and I together learned the hard way why we
have to have security. And that's that's every everybody should
have have that.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Uh yeah, generally speaking in the music business. To what
degree of you encountered sexism?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Oh yeah, I mean what can I say from I
don't know where to start. I started anywhere a high
degree from the industry. I think the suits, Like that
was the first place that I started to recognize it.
For that just in the idea of how to market
me and why it was a challenge and what I

(45:56):
needed to change, like all all those all those thoughts
were so wild to me. It's like I never thought
of any of this. This is rock and roll. I'm
not trying to go up there and be a pop star, Like,
why are we talking about this? So that was the
first element. But I think also I definitely was in

(46:21):
a situation where I was young and surrounded by not
people that necessarily like were thinking at all about me
or what was good for me. I was surrounded by
people that started seeing the opportunity and we're thinking a
lot about what was best for themselves. So you know
where that plays into sexism, I guess is the way

(46:43):
that they treat you to keep you down and keep
you from thinking that you have too much power. And
that got in my head real hard in the beginning.
It was something to overcome.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
So when you experience sexism to what degree was ignorance
of your viewpoint and what deg we was sort of
bullying and keeping you under their thumb.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
I felt the under the thumb part a lot, a lot.
It's like, I don't know, when you're just naive and
doing everything you can't. It was hard for me for
a while to see the difference. And it is a
blurred line between that I was a woman, that I

(47:30):
was a girl, and that I was young, like because
people just treat you like you're stupid and you don't
know any better, and you okay, all right, yeah right,
Well let me explain to you how this works. Here's
what you're gonna do, this is what everybody does, and
you've never done this before, so you have to trust me.
So here's what's going on. Like that kind of attitude
is hard when you're brand new and you are supposed

(47:51):
to okay, like I just signed a contract, I'm supposed
to whatever.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
But it's not.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I'm not trying to put it all on the label
because there was a much bigger, darker thing that I right,
I really try not to let be my story. There
was a big part of my story in the early days.
It was tough within the band in the early days.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Okay, but the member who is no longer in the band,
you had a lot of history just you and him
making music before, right, Yeah, yes, So what was that
dark force there from the beginning? And it just became
either bigger or you recognized it or did something change.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
With success, it definitely grew.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
But yeah, success definitely makes everything more complicated.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Okay, But this is a classic rock and roll story.
There is a separation between the original members, and one
member continues to have success and the other member does not. Right,
you know, do you think about it? Is the other
person contact you and is bitter? Does the other person

(49:03):
disappear completely? Is it something you don't even think about?

Speaker 2 (49:07):
It's it's honestly, it's been it has been that long
where I do feel like I'm in a place where
that's not motivating anything that I do. Like I definitely,
you know, felt like a big reaction to the fallout
between us, like I.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Needed to react.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
I needed to react in the music, you know, I
needed to react with the way that I was making
the music. And I think the harder part was just
you know, the hurt inside me, Like I hated it.
I didn't want to feel hurt. I didn't want to
feel anything like about him about that. I wanted to
just have my own story that wasn't like, I don't know,

(49:44):
messed with, but it is what it is. Like you
come from where you come from, and the things that
we overcome, I really do. I'm positive make us stronger.
So to me, like the storyline like for me, like
moving forward really came. It was about overcoming it for
a good while, and then there was then life became

(50:05):
more complicated and there's more to the story, and there's
so many other people and gosh, that stuff was so
long ago. It's part of what shapes you and and
and makes you see people a certain way. But also
it's something that I'm really at a place at this
point in my life that I'm ready to like really
let go of and and see the beauty of what

(50:26):
we had as well. It's taken the longest for me
to really look at the early music and and hear
it and not always have like a pang of ouch
about something like I'm I'm really at a place now
where I'm I I remember that love, I remember the
love in the music of all of that, and you know,

(50:46):
see what what was special about that that had to
that had to happen like that, And I am I'm
grateful for a lot, you know. But yeah, it was
quite tumultuous behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Okay, do I have it right? There's history where you
went to church camp and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
We met at church, Yeah, we did when I was
like thirteen.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Okay, So what's your viewpoint on religion? Now?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Oh it's fucking complicated. How do you sum up your
viewpoint on religion? I am a spiritual person with an
open mind on a lot of things, and I don't know.
It's funny, like I spent a long time really defensive
about this conversation as well in the early days, because

(51:45):
it was just this thing that was like penned on
us about religion. And you're a Christian band or we
really weren't, but we met at church. There's a lot
of music at church, and yeah, like I guess world
of it was like cringey to me because you get
older and you're like, oh my god, Like it wasn't
that quit it but spirituality. If I wasn't a spiritual

(52:09):
person who went deep to make our songs, it wouldn't
sound like they do. Like I'm definitely trying to channel
always like something that's bigger than myself. I do believe
there's absolutely more than just this.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Okay, jumping around a little bit. How'd you end up
working on the rehearsal? Uh?

Speaker 3 (52:28):
That is fun? I don't know, they asked me.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
I got I got an email that was describing kind
of what the rehearsal was, which I didn't know the
show personally, like I hadn't seen it before, and the
description like of what it was was like fascinating because
I don't even know how you how how I was
trying to explain what it was to my parents and
I couldn't do it. I was like, it's like you

(52:51):
know what, You're just gonna have to watch it. Yeah,
at the beginning, I think it is just a really incredible,
the coolest license we've ever had. I feel like it's
part of the story, you know, in an unusual way. Yeah.
I was literally just like asked for a license request
that was really really wild. And then months later they

(53:14):
were like, oh, yeah, hey, that show is going to
come out that you know you approved the license for,
and there's a journalist is asking to speak to you,
like the next day after you watch it, And I
was like really, And I was like, Okay, I hope
this is good. Uh yeah, screaming, crying, throwing up. I
love it so much. I thought it was so good.

(53:35):
And I watched a bunch more like I watched that
whole season and I mean came to tears a little
bit in there.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
You've had some success in this world, Does that lead
to more opportunity?

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yeah, of course always.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
I'm just you know, well, I mean.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
You mean just for working with people, and yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
You would a couple of things. Now since these are
successful productions, other people say, I'm a Netflix show, want
you to write a song?

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (54:08):
That's honestly, that was what I was dreaming of twenty
years ago, even fifteen years ago. I was just wishing,
like to get into that world when I started making music,
Like when I started really getting into music when I
was my son's age. Actually, I saw the movie Am
Dais and I was obsessed with Mozart and his genius

(54:30):
and I wanted to be that whatever that is, and
I wanted to be a composer on a piano player,
and I got I got piano lessons like the next year.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
It was a gift from my grandparents. It was a
big deal.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
And it's funny because like my siblings, like we all
took piano lessons. I'm the oldest. But it was different
for all of them than it was for me because
I begged for it. I cried for it. I wanted
it so bad and it wasn't a given. It was like, please,
how do we make it work? I really I need this.
I know this is what I want to do with
my life kind of thing. When I was like ten

(55:05):
and having you know, okay, you got them, you better
take this seriously. I really did, like I loved it.
And then you know, my parents are like, oh my gosh,
this is great. Everybody's going to take piano and we're
all musically inclined. We all played piano, wheel sing for
everybody else was like work kind of a little bit more.
Not that I didn't treat you know, some of the

(55:26):
assignments that way and most exhausting, but it's different when
you like are dying to do it, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Okay, I took piano lessons. Everybody took piano lessons. In
my family, we didn't want to practice. So you're taking
piano lessons, are you practicing?

Speaker 2 (55:46):
I started off taking that very seriously and being excited
about practice, And as I got older and got into
high school, I would neglect practice, but I could kind
of get away with it because I have a good
year and I could hear what it was supposed to
be and figure it out without really doing all the work.
So I would sort of cheat, which was bad. And
my teacher was an amazing piano player at concert pianist,

(56:07):
and she could tell, so I kind of get in trouble.
She'd be like, yeah, you're doing that right, but that's
not what it says. I'm like, what it's like, Yeah,
that's what it sounds like when that one guy did it.
I know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Yeah, at this lead day, can you still read?

Speaker 2 (56:23):
I can? But I mean I'm out of practice real bad.
I've got cheat music in there, songs that I like,
and I'm like, I'm going to learn, like last Christmas,
I'm going to learn this song, and I absolutely have
not finished that song. So it's hard, you know, you start,
you get to where like I can just play now,
like I can hear something in my head and make
it come true in a minute.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Once you have.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
That, it's hard to just sit there and force yourself
to like read in another language.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
It takes discipline.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Okay, you see on the day as you're inspired to
take piano lessons, are you listening to music at that point?
Is there music in the home?

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Oh? Yeah, my dad. My dad's almost plays everything, but
was a DJ and program director all growing up, So
I grew up around the radio station and a lot
of he worked at all different formats, but kind of
like classics, oldies, that sort of thing was a lot
of my growing up, the sort of music that he

(57:22):
was knew about and was playing on the air and
was the guy about. So I definitely just got a basic,
like especially rock like music education from Neil Young the
Beatles to honestly like four Tops and Temptations and you
know Stevie Wonder and Marvin get just all kinds of
music in the house. So that's the kind of music

(57:43):
that I was exposed to first, just like great classic music,
but then the dark drama of like Mosa that was
what was different for me when I hit that age.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Where you're just starting to have all those.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Like feelings and emotions and then this dramatic like classical
music hit me in a way that was like, oh,
this is what this is me, this is deep, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
So then what we I mean, Mozart's not new, So
what new recordings or you know, contemporary recordings. Did you
then start to listen.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
To It's it's it's all over the place. It's so
mixed up together because it was like classical hit And
then I start what I really got into wasn't listening
to old classical music as much as it was film scores.
I was really really into the the emotions of film.
So I'm trying to think of some of the first
movies that I saw that was like, oh my god,

(58:35):
oh my god, this is a funny one. This is
different because it's soundtrack. But The Bodyguard was like the
first R rated movie I got to see. If you
get to see The Bodyguard because you love music, and
that was big and inspiring. But like I would listen
to film scores like like the Batman score, like the
Danny Elfman Batman score, or like like the Lion King,

(58:56):
like the cartoon, like just music in general. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
I was kind of a nerd to listen to weird music.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
But also at the same time, it was like grunge
started happening a couple of years later for me, and
I heard I Forget What I can't say the first song.
I like Nirvana and Soundgarden, and then Smashing Pumpkins and
Garbage and then b York. All these really interesting alternative
artists really started happening, and that opened my mind even

(59:23):
wider to like wanting it all at the same time together.
So I think that that's why the band started becoming
a thing of like, oh, maybe I'm maybe I'm the singer,
maybe I'm in a band.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Okay, you're talking about early nineties grunge. You're going on
tour in Australia with Metallica. That's a couple of steps
beyond grunge.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Mm hm. I liked Metallica then, too, Well, that's you know,
that's a whole Yeah, ruled there without mentioning every band
in that world.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
That's so true.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Is that music say, oh yeah, I want to listen
to that music at the time.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Yeah, for sure, Metallica was probably, I want to say,
the first like heavy band that I that I was
really into. But my heart is more that sound garden world.
That's dark and heavy to me big time. I mean,
I think that there's different ways to look at like
what's metal or what's heavy, and for me that there

(01:00:18):
was a big crossover in the darkness of the alternative
scene in the nineties, like the Hardsheet Box is super dark.
I don't know, there's there's a lot of music from
back then that I feel like the whole the time
was dark somehow musically and long, like long journeys through places.
But for some reason that really resonated with me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Okay, you're talking about the darkness in music. Is that
an element of your life today? Not the music, the darkness.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Well, I mean I think that's part that's a part
of the world.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, we can talk about politics.
One might be disillusion with politics, well, might be disillusion
with their own social situation, their own business situation. Then
there are other people you talk about who are introverted,
who are also introspective, and they're in touch. I can't

(01:01:14):
believe I'm verbalizing it this way. They're in touch with
the darkness. Does that start to resonate with you and go, No,
that doesn't fit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
No, it does, of course it does. I've lost big
in my life. I've lost people that are very close
to me that I love. I lost my little sister
and I lost my brother, and I think that that happening.
You know, I was six years old and my sister
passed away. That touched me in a way that big

(01:01:45):
time shaped the way that my mind works and the
way that I look in, you know, look in and
look out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
That happens these tragedies. How do you metabolize that and
get past it to the degree you ever do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
That?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
That is why, that is how this started. I feel
like it started from needing an outlet, Like I think
that's why hearing that music, you know, hearing Mozart and
hearing the drama and.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
That darkness that was it was more adult.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
You know. There was something about that that touched me
in a way that I couldn't describe and I wanted
to tap into that. And I think before it was
even that, before it was music, it was poetry. It
was just writing in my journal. From very young, I
always was just like writing my feelings down and trying

(01:02:40):
to I don't know, like making them, not just writing
in my diary, but like kind of writing poetry, like
writing prose because it felt good. It felt like it
turned something that I couldn't explain into something that said
what I wanted to say that I couldn't say, or
that or that was beautif like taking something really really

(01:03:02):
painful or really dark and making it into oh that
could that's not worthless. It turned into something beautiful. At
least there's this little thing that I made that's beautiful
that couldn't have existed if I didn't feel those feelings.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Do you feel you're misunderstood as a star artist? Evan
Essence is known for a certain style of music. Do
you feel like, oh, yeah, I have a tory aimed
as solo piano thing more demure and reserved, or no,
this is what I do, this is who I am.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I it's a great question because I have gone through
phases in my life where I felt very like I
needed to search and like maybe this didn't sum it up,
Like maybe evan Essence was a piece of something. And
I really feel home in the music that I'm making
at this point. I feel like I know who I am.

(01:03:56):
But another reason for the time between albums, another reason
for that that time of searching and introspection is allowing
it to die in my mind, like I had to
do that a couple times, like go, Okay, I might
never do this again, so let's just be me and
see what that looks and sounds like. And usually when

(01:04:17):
I when I'm just sitting around and I want to
make music, I'm not thinking, Okay, this is going to
be for Evanescence or this is going to be for
It's just I just let it happen and don't give
it those parameters. That's how I really enjoy making music.
And what's a beautiful thing about that is that it
it has, this is what it sounds like, this is

(01:04:38):
what it sounds like. And Evanescence is a collaboration. It's
always been that, but but it's that is really that
is really me. So I don't because of that, I
am here this many years later and feel ultimate satisfaction
when we play our music, and we put our music
because it is one from the heart and write on

(01:05:00):
the money of who I feel that I am, you know,
and that is varied. I feel like our band honestly,
Like if you listen to it all, it's kind of
it's not all over the place, but it's a pretty
broad spectrum of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Let's talk about the lyrics. Twenty years on, do you
feel a need to convey your inner thoughts to the
degree you did previously?

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
It feels good to do. The more you can say,
the more you can express, Like, the more release you get.
I mean, and I definitely feel like I'm a lot
better at putting stuff, putting the depth, you know, putting
my darkest fears and my deepest feelings into music than

(01:05:52):
I am at just saying them in a conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
That's hard.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Okay, you have this makeup artist, very good friend of yours,
but forget the fans. That's something different. Generally speaking, are
you guarded or are you waiting to feel the right
vibe that you say what you really think?

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
I guess that depends. It just depends on the situation.
I can definitely be a person who's just like just
totally stick my foot in my mouth, like I'll just
blurt stuff out and be like, why did I say
that out loud?

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Okay, going back to career stuff, how do you end
up on wind Up Records?

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Well, you know, kind of like I was saying before,
we weren't really a band at the time. We were like,
you know, songwriters, Like we were just creating music and
recording it and making demos and you know, pulling together
people you know locally from bands, you know, to put
on a show once in a while. And when what

(01:06:53):
happened with wind Up is I'm trying to think how
old I must have been. We signed when I was nineteen,
so I guess I was probably eighteen. And we had
taken our demos, which people talk about as if it's
an album. It's really not. But we put our demos
into like a homemade album. It's called Origin, and we

(01:07:16):
had I think we spent five hundred dollars to go
to Memphis and have it mastered, so like it sounded
really good. And while we were there, you know, working
with the guy who was mastering it for us, Pete Matthews,
was down the hall. It was really really nice and
like heard it through the door and was like, what
who are you guys? And you know, we told them
we're just kids and this is our band. He's like, wow,

(01:07:37):
that sounds really cool. He's like, I'm going to New
York to talk to this label about this other band
I'm dealing with, and do you want me to show
it to people? I could love to show that around.
Like he sat and listened to everything we were doing
and thought it was cool, and we're like, oh, yeah, cool,
yeah I do that. So it was really literally like
the first people we talked to and what the song
that got us signed was my Immortal because they just

(01:08:00):
something about that song, just love that song.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
That was the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
And it all kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Happens sort of fast.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
We we you know, we knew that the right thing
to do is like to shop around, but honestly, like
all the other labels wanted like a showcase and for
us to come in and play it live and see
how and that's just not that wasn't we weren't there.
That's just not really who we were. So it was
just one of those things like look this this label's
right here right now. They've got a success story. They're

(01:08:29):
passionate about it. Why don't we just do this? So
you know, I don't know, we're kids. We signed a
record deal.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Okay, you're kids. You know this is sort of well
known stuff. There's Don Passman book, et cetera. Are you
sharp enough to know we should get a music business lawyer,
we should get a manager, or you basically walk into
the quagmiring it rape? Shall we say?

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
I feel like we kind of knew the roles and
just didn't do what we were supposed to do. We
we got a lawyer, but I mean it was definitely
like what do you want me to say? Like this
is this is a deal that you know, this is
this is kind of you're committing your entire career here,
that's what this is.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
But you also have no leverage.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
It's not like you're going in there saying, oh, well
we've already succeeded this and that you have nothing. So
if you want to go give it a shot, you know,
give it a shot. The worst thing that can happen
is you become really successful and then you're in trouble.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
But I mean, we made it out alive, like it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
I will say this, like there there were definitely struggles
with that relationship. That was difficult. But looking back, there
are things that they did for us that I see
now as really valuable and rare, which was they made us.
First of all, they made us. We thought we were done,

(01:09:55):
and they're like, no, no, no, you're gonna have to like
write more songs, like do your thing. They sent us
to la and put us in the oak Woods, and
we're like, you're gonna, you know, like write more songs,
you know, and also, you know, we work with this
producer guy. Maybe something cool come out of that, uh,
like gave us. We didn't we didn't have much money

(01:10:18):
to live off of, but like everything was kind of
taken care of.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
It was like you have a gym membership.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
And they even got me like acting classes because it
was super shy. It was every time I'd performed live before,
I just had to keep my eyes closed, like the
entire set, like just stand there with my eyes shut
and couldn't talk to the crowd. And what they did
was they they put me in with this guy. It
was so awesome actually lose. I remember when we broke through,

(01:10:45):
I would bring my boombox. He taught an acting class
and at the end of the class, like he let
me sit in if I wanted to. Everyone would leave
and I'd have my stereo with our songs that we
were working on, and he would sit in an empty
little theater and I I would be on the stage
and I would have to just cringingly sing my songs,

(01:11:05):
looking at him, like just sing and do my thing
and rock out and not have my eyes closed and
try to get comfortable.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
It was super awkward.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
And then one day I remember just kind of I
don't know, something clicked where I was like just I
stopped caring what he was thinking, and he saw it
and he was like, there, you did it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
That's it, You're good.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
And I was like we literally had I don't know,
maybe seven seven sessions together and he just like helped
me get to a place where I felt more comfortable.
That's so valuable. That is something that I needed that
I couldn't see that I needed. So I'm not sitting
here to say how wonderful it all was. It was
a real struggle, and the biggest thing we struggled about
was creative control. Because I knew what I wanted, I

(01:11:48):
knew what I wanted it to look like. I knew
the words I wanted to sing. I needed to develop
like my identity, and it was a struggle, not just
for the first album, but after we had one Grammy's
and proven so much. I constantly had to fight just
to prove that I could do what I had already done.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Okay, you're talking about performing, but having this success, did
you have or still have any imposter syndrome? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
Yeah, all the time? Yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know how to how to elaborate
on that, but for sure, I definitely goes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Okay, let's go back. You hear your father's in music,
You're exposed to all this music, you go to si Ahmedaish.
At what point do you say, this is what I
want to do for a living.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
I felt like that struck me back then.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
I mean, but learning what that's what I want to
do for a living was grew and changed over time
because at first I didn't even think about myself as
a singer.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
It wasn't that my.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
Idea was ooh, I want to be the center of attention.
That that wasn't really me. I wanted to create, I
wanted to write music. I wanted to make music, and
I really thought I was going down the road to
write music for film. So when I went to college
for a hot minute right before you know, we signed
that deal. It was theory composition because I knew that

(01:13:23):
I could play by ear and I knew that I could,
you know, write a song. But what I wanted to
get good at was the hard stuff, you know, learning
the real technicality of music and instrumentation and you know, orchestration. Okay,
but then you know, like you know, I'm sorry, I
didn't really finish like I was thinking that. But at
the same time, like my heart was going towards this

(01:13:43):
place of contemporary music that was moving me so much,
like the sound gardens and the U Yorks and the
Smashing Pumpkins and the garbages.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Okay, you're in high school with this, say oh Amy, Yeah, yeah,
she's that girl. She's the one who plays the piano.
She's one into music or was it a more private thing?

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
They those who knew me at all, like did know that.
But it's not like I was famous at school. I
was just I was just an art kid. I was
choir president.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Okay. So all these years later, with all this great success,
have you gone to any reunions? Have you heard from
any of these people.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Uh, oh, I've heard from them. Yeah, I've seen some
of them since. Yeah, I actually have one, my bestie
from junior high.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
I'm actually talking about the other people. I don't know
how many people in your high school class, the people
who gave you a hard time, et cetera. Have they
come out of the woodwork with different opinions.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
I don't know. I haven't really focused on that too much.
There definitely were the people, Like you know, I feel
like I have.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
A different heart about it now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
When things felt like such a huge deal when you're
in middle school or high school, they really start to
not feel like such a big deal. Later it's like, oh,
we were all just kids. I don't hate you, You're
just a dumb kid like me. But at the time, yeah, no,
I don't have that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Just to be clear, are you choosing not to go
to reunion where the stars have not lined up?

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
I did hear about the tenure union decide not to go?
I feel I not for any reason. I just feel awkward.
I just feel awkward. I feel like, especially if I
hate feeling like in a situation, people are going to
think that I think I'm better than everybody or something,
and I feel so awkward, like walking into that situation.

(01:15:43):
I don't know where they're like expecting me to like, hey,
look at me, I made it, check it out. So
I don't know, just feels awkward.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Okay, when you're in high school, to what degree are
you playing out?

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
I think we played like twelve shows ever before we
got signed.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Okay, you graduate, you go to college. How long did
you stay in college?

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
One whole semester?

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Okay, just to get the timeline right, Yeah, you make
this album with this other guy, You go to Memphis
to get it mastered. When that's happening, are you already
in college? Oh yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
I why shoot, No, that was before that was still
high school.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Okay. From the time you go to Memphis to the
time you end up in La how much time is that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
It's a really short amount of time. We were in Memphis,
Well we went back to that's such a weird it's
foggy now, Like we went there to do the mastering thing,
and then we went back.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Home and then let me let me ask questions a
different way. From the time wind Up heard it, how
long until you had signed contracts?

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
It was within a year. It was probably it was
a matter of months.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
Okay, did they move you out to Los Angeles before
the contracts were signed?

Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
I think that was after after I think it's sign
It's like, okay, we're putting you in like artists development.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Okay, Just to go back from the time wind Up
first heard your music, how long until you end up
in Los Angeles? A year?

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
So, while maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
Didn't happen fast, what's going through your mind during that year?

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
I don't know, just making music, just music. It's like
always had to be better, make more, and make something wright.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
I mean there are two things. I mean, this is
a long shot business under the best of circumstances. So
you could be chomping at the bit saying I'm ready
to orse he say, is this really gonna happen? Or man,
I just can't wait anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Well, you know, here is where the word is anxiety
comes to mind. There was so much pressure all of
a sudden because there it's like, oh my god, people
are they're putting money into us, like we have to
make it, like this has to be good. I left
school for this, like everything is on the line, and
it definitely felt like this is my job, like is

(01:18:18):
it is not just the thing that you love. It's
your job to make this work for more than just you,
like for everybody involved. So pressure, major pressure is what
it felt like.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
What did your parents say when you said you're dropping
out of college?

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
They were really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
My dad, you know, I said, he was a musician,
he was in a band before I was born, and
he knew how rare and special it was that we'd
even gotten too that place like that they wanted to
sign us. And it was always with this attitude of like, hey,
like you know, keep perspective in your heart, of like
how it's gonna go, you know, like you know, keep

(01:18:56):
up your studies. But like, you know, when that happened,
it was they were one hundred in my corner and cheering, and.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
It was it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Really you said it was a long It wasn't. It
didn't feel like a long time. It felt fast. It
was like one minute we're in school, the next minute
we're out of there and working on music, and we
have a career that we're working on and making, you know, music.
And then a year and a half after that, Fallen's
coming out and then the Grammys and my parents were
they had a big party and we're like watching that.

(01:19:23):
I just was looking at the picture of the day.
It's so cute, Like I had all their friends over
and they're all sitting living and watching the Grammys. When
we won.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Okay, you go to LA, they say they need more songs.
So what did you end up doing in LA? I
mean you talk about the acting less, you talk about writing,
you talked about a producer. But at a more granular level,
what was actually going on in that period.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Well, not a lot that I mean that that was
the focus for me. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
You'd cut a record. Did they say we want a
to those records and we want to remix that record
and we want new material.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
No, we were writing and demo ing stuff, so we
had like, uh, it was just our job to like.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
Come up with stuff, and they told until they told
it was us talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Was there a specific producer or multiple producers?

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
There were the I hate to mention somebody if I
can't remember their name. What really happened? What once we
really started getting.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
There were a couple of people.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Okay, yes, but I want to say like two because
when we kind of came time to like, okay, we've
got you've got the songs, now you know it. We
met with Dave Fortman because their their thought was Jay
Bongerner and Dave Portman, who is formerly an ugly kid
Joe and then became an awesome producer. He was just
kind of starting out his producer career as well. He

(01:20:54):
was like under Jay's wing, and uh, I think it
was the kind of thing where Jay wasn't available and
and Dave was. And we met with Jay, and we
really really I mean with Dave, We really really liked
him a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
Hit it off.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
I felt like he understood something about it and was
going to bring cool stuff to the table, even though
he didn't have a bunch of records to say, here's
all the things I've already done. We were all kind
of going in trusting each other and that relationship was
really important and great. Like having Dave for both Fallen
and the Open Door was it was so essential for

(01:21:28):
me personally.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
How long after you go to LA do they say
you have the songs, let's cut them? Or are you
cutting them as you're writing them?

Speaker 3 (01:21:40):
No, we weren't cutting as we were writing.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
We're just demoing. We were just demoing. And then it
was like okay, we agree, like on your songs, like
you can go in. But it was very much like
you know, it was my schooling. It's like the traditional method,
like you go in. Time is money. You know we're
going to record, you know, first get make sure we
know we've got everything mapped out before we're paying for
student a time in like a pre production sort of zone,

(01:22:02):
in a rehearsal space at where Dave was with us,
like kind of mapping things out. We've already decided this
is the tempo, you know, this is how long the
bridge is, all the pretty much had it all mapped
and then it's like you go into the studio and
you do all the drums and then you do all
the bass, and then you do all the guitar and
then you know, just in order like that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
So it's pretty typical.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Okay, to the degree you can remember, you land in
LA you end up working with Dave Fortman. How long
a period of time is that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
From landing to working with him? We spent at a
solid year I almost want to say a year and
a half in that limbo like still writing songs, pre
production zone.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
I okay, you're a young woman essentially a coupler student.
Do they give you a car? Do you hang out?
Do you go to shows? Do you go to the beach?
Or you just sitting in the would writing songs.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
I went to the beach, sure, and I had my
family all come out, like during spring Breaker something, and
we all went to Universal. And I felt like the
cool person who like took into Venice Beach and went
to Universal Studios. And I'm the big sister who's like
about to be a rock star with all the my
sweet little sibs just like that, making them think I'm
super cool.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
So nobody doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Of whether or not we were going to run success.
Oh of course though, Well you can't think about that.
That's all cass you up.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
The record is now done. Are you a happy with
the record? And B do you believe it's going to
be commercially successful?

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
I absolutely believe that. I think.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
For the most part, like you have to you have
to be good. Things are made.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
When everybody believes in it and everybody's excited about it
and working for it, as if there is no possible
way it could fail, Like you have to operate that way,
like that's the passion just driving you. I always leaved
in it like that. But what I couldn't have foreseen
or maybe believed or comprehended at the time was where

(01:24:11):
I'm at now. I think, like the whole the whole
thing in my head at the time was about that
album and that music and that moment and us existing
in a way. Where are we going to be a
band that can like exist and I can I can
be a musician like this, you know, for my career,
it wasn't long term, Like I never would have imagined
that at forty three we be at a better place

(01:24:36):
by far than we were at on our first album,
which which did so well, and have fans around the
world and all those things. Like it's definitely a degree
that isn't something you can plan for or expect. You
just I don't know. You just have to make what
you love and believe in it and give it, give
it your everything all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Okay, it's a different era twenty years ago, but the
record is done, the record is released. From your perspective,
did it just take off or did they say let's
see if it happens, or did they put you on
the road. What happened.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
In my mind now, it all felt pretty fast, but
It was a tumultuous time for sure. Like it was
like there was big success that felt fat. It was
fast radio stations like Seattle I think was like the
first one that picked it up. And then it was
like ky rock and it just spread and it was
this thing where it was charting, and I had a

(01:25:37):
lot of a lot of conflicting feelings going on at
the same time, excitement and all that, of course, also exhaustion.
We were touring way hard and in between, you know,
starting to do the awards show stuff and everything all
this like that stuff like it was all it was
kind of all at once, and at the same time
I was worried. I remember what it was bringing to
life was our first song and there was a guest

(01:25:57):
vocal on it. I was really really worried about that.
That wasn't what I wanted. And I was concerned that
people wouldn't understand our sound. But they was think there
was two singers in the band, and how are we
going to overcome this like this this thing that we
had to do, you know. And Paul, by the way,
was wonderful. I really love Paul. He did everything to

(01:26:21):
just come into the stshure. We go okay, like I'll
do this and and nailed it, and then at the
same time I'm struggling with like it was that wasn't
my original vision and are people gonna I don't know,
but you know, only a few months later, which felt
like a million years in the moment, Going Under happened
and it was really successful too, and then my mortal
and I was just it was this relief that people

(01:26:42):
understood who we were. At the same time, my brother
was sick at home having brain surgery that year, and
it just it was just a time where there was
a lot of emotion in me and a lot of
me feeling like I needed to present strong, and inside
I felt like I didn't have a lot of control

(01:27:04):
over anything.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
Okay, you do have this great success out of the
box you've been working. You know, there's a couple of
cliches here. You've been working on your first album for years. Second,
you have success. Now what you have to follow it up?

Speaker 3 (01:27:25):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
How do I? How do I start that one?

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
What do you? You know? What do you even do?
Are you on the road saying, fuck, I gotta write
songs or when the tour is over, I'll write songs
and yeah, I gotta have songs as good as a
previous album.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
I wanted all of that, but writing on the road
wasn't possible for me. That was way too hard at
the time. I'm able to come up with ideas better
now I have a little portable rig and I'm comfortable
with multitasking. It's like I can only think about one.
Those are two opposite sides of my personality. There's the
you know, the creative introvert who's you know, writing songs

(01:28:08):
and only thinking about like the inside. And then there's
this extrovert side that I have to be this showman
and doing interviews and standing on stage and telling the
crowd to rally and all those things. So for me,
it was like I could only do one. So we
toured fall In for a really good amount of time,
like when all over the world. It was exhausting by

(01:28:30):
the time I got home and I was tired, but
I had it definitely in my heart that I was
dying to prove myself and I knew, you know, what
it meant, and it was like, well, this is survival
or not, and I have to show like what is
me and what my worth is because you know, even
the people around me don't know. And I have to

(01:28:50):
give some credit to Terry Balsamo, who became our guitar
player in the middle of that Fallen tour. He's from
a band Cold, and I remember at the time like
he was struggling in his situation with his band, and
when I don't know, when things hit the fan, it
was like, Hey, you want to be in a band

(01:29:11):
with me? You want to come like fill in. He's like, yeah,
I'll fill in, And then we ended up really connecting
musically on a lot of things. He sort of it
was kind of like I made him love and appreciate
you York, and he made me love and appreciate Pantera
and the Deaf Tones. So it was like this nice
like mashup of like opposite worlds that was really beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
And he's a great musician.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
So we spent a bunch of time after the end
of tour at my place in California, just the two
of us writing the second record. He stayed with me
for weeks at a time and we would just be creative,
hang out, night, swim, go, get drunk, all that stuff,

(01:29:55):
and it was just a really it was an important
time for me to feel like and and he was
honestly just extremely supportive of me and uplifting me about
my ideas. It wasn't that he was always going, yeah
that's not heavy enough, or yeah that could be cooler
if we did this. He really listened to me and
followed me and respected me. Even though I feel like

(01:30:17):
it was it was something that was different. We had
different talents. It's hard to explain, but I got very,
very lucky meeting him at the right time, and we
made that album and worked on the next one together
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Okay, you referenced this earlier, but let's go a little
deeper into the five years between the second and third albums.
M So you said earlier you got to a point
where you said, I don't know if I'm even gonna
do this anymore. I mean, was this exhaustion anger or

(01:30:58):
like I did it, I want to take a break?
What was it?

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
There was a lot of things. I was struggling with
the label. I was also struggling with management. I had
to go through a couple of lawsuits. There was just
a mess. There was a mess behind the scenes, and
it was stuck in all the fun out of it
for me, Like every time I had a cool idea.
I feel like it was being not appreciated shot down,

(01:31:23):
Like I just you have I have learned the incredible
difference of surrounding yourself with people who truly like believe
in you. I didn't have that for a while, and
when we got to the end of touring the second one,
there was a mess and I just it just didn't
want to spend my life arguing and fighting for everything.

(01:31:45):
I just wanted to make great music, you know, and
it's just not It wasn't that simple. So I definitely
spend some time like in court and like cleaning up messes,
like behind the scenes. And also like Terry had a
stroke and it was really difficult. It had become really
difficult for him to play and tour. So it was

(01:32:05):
like I lost that thing that it helped me, you know.
So there was just it felt at the time like
there was a lot against me. And I was also
kind of having an identity crisis about what it was
and what it looked like. And I could see elements
of like it's like the picture on the fall and cover,
it was like a cartoon of myself.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
It's like that's a character that's not me.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
That.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
I mean, it's a caricature. It's it's not the whole me,
and people don't understand like that there's a lot more
to this than that. And I was still, I don't know,
at a place in my life where that was that
was difficult.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
I want everybody to know me all the way.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
I know that people can't know me all the way,
but like as an artist, I think there's something in
there that's like we're striving. We want to be known
like as openly as possible. That's what feels good is
feeling that that connection with people. And I kind of
had to just like not make that kind of music
for a while. I did some solo stuff, I made
music by myself in my house. I don't know, I

(01:33:01):
just I had to get back to a place where eventually,
like my heart showed me that it was still I mean,
it was what I wanted naturally, I wanted it really bad.
By the time we made more music together, and it
was just like come over to my house, let's make
music at the house, and everybody come over. I don't know,
do it however?

Speaker 1 (01:33:18):
Make it happen so exist when you start going to therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
No, I have been to therapy, But I started a long,
long time before that. It was definitely before the album,
before the first album ever came out.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
Okay, So before the first album came out, like right before,
years before.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
No, like right before, like like during during that process.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
Okay, So what stimulated going to therapy?

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
Stuff in my personal life current but also uh just
past past trauma, dealing with you know, grief and how
that manifests in the present.

Speaker 1 (01:33:59):
Well, there good therapist and bad therapist. How do you
find a therapist?

Speaker 3 (01:34:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
I haven't actually, I haven't been to therapy in a
really long time.

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
So did it help you at the time?

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
Yeah, I did, absolutely. I needed to be fair, I
needed a woman to talk you and it just wasn't
something I had.

Speaker 1 (01:34:21):
Okay, there's a lot of money generated when you have
this level of success in music. It all doesn't necessarily
come back to the artist, and even the money that
comes back to the artist can be very delayed. Lawsuits
are very expensive. So how did it work with the money?

(01:34:44):
Did you see the money and say, oh, I want
to go out and buy X or did the money
never really come through? You know, there's successful acts. I'm
both into the spectrum wait.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
Are you talking about in the beginning, Like how long
did it take to see money? No?

Speaker 3 (01:34:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:34:58):
And did you get the money you thought you deserve them?
Did you spend it or what'd you do with it?

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:35:03):
Well that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:35:05):
Yeah, I mean that's a long answer. I don't It
took a while, yes, to come in for sure. And
you always have to chase it. They're not going to
just pay you. You're gonna have to audit every time.
And you know, when you don't have the money to
begin with, you know's that's where artists get taken advantage
of so much. Because I feel like Fallen and the

(01:35:29):
success of Fallen gave me the luxury of being able
to when I can't get what I want, When I
can't get the advance or whatever, I can't get the
label to sign on, I'll be like, Okay, fine, I'll
spend my own money.

Speaker 3 (01:35:40):
I'll do it myself.

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
And I still operate that way when thinks if I
need to do something and I want to do something,
I just do it I can. That has really been
an incredible gift and I but that said, I'm not
a person who spends a lot of money on shit
for myself and I'm a person that spends money on

(01:36:04):
our band. I really do spend I have always invested
back into the thing that made it in the first place.
So when we made our second record, I remember we
went to the record plant in La and I was like,
money's no object. We're staying here and we're gonna write
in the studio and we're not going to feel that
pressure of time like we did last time. We're gonna
make all the choices that feel good and take time

(01:36:25):
to really listen back and just make this great. And
that was a great process. I feel like I probably
spent more on that album than any of them, just
because it's like I was just like learning, like I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
Well, how long were you in it? How much did
you do?

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
We were in the studio for over a million dollars.
We were in the studio for I don't know record plants.
I want to say six months. Long time.

Speaker 3 (01:36:50):
It was awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
Okay, you're there that long. The label's not happy if
forget them, forget the money. The label only wants another
record immediately. Yeah, So you second guessing yourself? Are you saying, no,
I know exactly what I'm doing. It's taking the time it's.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
Taking, I was saying, fuck the man, and I made
you that money, so don't tell me what to do.
And at the time, I think that whatever they were feeling,
they did know that they were gonna make it back
just through fallen royalties anyway. So sure they don't like it,
but I was definitely that was my rebellious teens moment.

Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
And to what degree are you as student of the game.
Your first album comes out in two thousand and three,
The recording landscape is completely different today. You know, you
were like at the tail end of music television, the
power of terrestrial rio. Something goes, it goes big. Nothing

(01:37:52):
is that big anymore. Nothing absolutely okay. And in addition,
unless you have something a certain track, the odds of
making a lot of money streaming or not high. Right,
So where do you sit on all this?

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
I just feel like you if you have to open
your mind about how you're making your money, Like we
just spent you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars on
a music video game like that doesn't make money.

Speaker 3 (01:38:20):
Used to get.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
Paid in like like like streams, like every time MTV
would play it, you get something it's like radio play.
And now you literally just put it up for free
on YouTube. You have to recognize that when you when
you invest in your band, in your brand, in whatever
it is, and show them what it's worth, then it's

(01:38:42):
gonna come. I have found that it comes back to
you in other ways, whether it's that whether or not
that's you know, a commercial, like a placement somebody wanted,
Oh cool, I saw that, that was awesome, Let's use
you for this, or come write a song for my
this or that, and or most importantly, I would say,
is touring, like how you make it this awesome event,
this thing that people want to experience. Then you can

(01:39:05):
go play shows you know, and have a big audience
and there's plenty of money. It's still to be made
on the touring side, for sure, and that takes work,
and that takes leaving your family and all of those things.
So you definitely have to be willing to put the
work in. But I have a great band, and playing
live is also really really fun, So I mean knowing

(01:39:25):
that we're gonna go out there and have a good
time is different the old cliches.

Speaker 1 (01:39:29):
You're on stage one hour day, they're paying you for
the other twenty three hours.

Speaker 3 (01:39:34):
Yeah, you gotta make it fun.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
I'm kind of I to make it fun.

Speaker 2 (01:39:38):
I make it fun like I like, we're gonna go
on a booz peruise. I already booked it. Let's go
required everybody come, like if we have a day off,
like I'm gonna put us, you know, in Paris, not
in whatever random talent you can't pronounce, if I can,

(01:39:58):
if I can.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
You can't always make that happen.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
Of course, there's boring days, you know what, when we're
in the middle of nowhere in Utah, like at a
I don't know what hotel name to use, but something
not great.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
We barbecue in the parking lot.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
We're friends with our crew, like we have a lot
of our crew that have been that are our close
friends that we've been with for years doing this together.

Speaker 3 (01:40:19):
You have to make it your family like.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
You have to make it fun so that you don't
feel like you're just wasting your time twenty three like
you said, however, long out of the day you're not
actually doing your job. I don't want to live a
life where I'm just like sitting in my hotel room
not talking to anybody, And would it be better for
my voice if I did, yeah, probably, but like what
about your soul? You know, so if you're gonna especially

(01:40:43):
if you're going to be in it for the long haul,
like surround yourself with people that don't that love you
for who you are, not your money, and with people
that you want to spend time with and be around
and hang out. Like I there are nights when I'd
absolutely have to stay in and be good and be quiet,
But other nights, I'm I need to hang out for
my heart.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
I think, actually, I think that's really important.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
Okay, let's say you're in a legendary place Paris, Rome,
whether New York in Chicago. Are you someone say I
am here. I have to get it out of the
hotel room. I have to go to this museum or
eat at this restaurant. I mean, I know, if you've
been around the world and told me I have seen nothing, Okay,

(01:41:25):
I like it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
I like to go see.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Yeah, I like to get out and I I you know,
it's not always a big group thing, like I like
to just go wander. It's hard to think ahead on
stuff like dinner reservations like I like to you know,
we get to a place and we've got the afternoon No,
I don't want to stay in my hotel room usually
the whole time. I'll just go take a walk, I said,

(01:41:48):
I lived in New York for a long time. I'm
comfortable of being in a city by myself, with my
hair back and the glasses on. But I like to go,
like just experience the world, like go go, pretend you
live there for a minute. I actually find that really fascinating.
I find other languages fascinating and other culture is fascinating.

(01:42:10):
And it's been a real gift to get to travel
the world. I honestly, we all feel that way. It's
it feels good to get out and see something outside
yourself inspiring.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
Where's the coolest place you've been? Mmm? Ah?

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
Man, picking one place?

Speaker 1 (01:42:26):
Oh, you could pick two.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
That's impossible. I mean I mentioned Paris, but I love Paris.
I love London too. Ah, how do I do that?
We we've had a lot of fun in South America.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
Well, I was gonna say, for me, if they don't
speak English, the more exotic, Like I went to Bogata, Man,
it was so vivid.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
Yeah, we went. We went like ziplining in Costa Rica
one time. I'll never forget. That was so fun.

Speaker 3 (01:42:56):
It was so high up, like way above the trees.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
And speaking of Beth, she scared heights and she didn't
really realize what we were doing until we were up
there and there was no way down but zip lanning.
She was discarded for life, like it's completely terrified. I
was loving it, but also feeling sorry for her.

Speaker 1 (01:43:14):
Okay, you're in a band, you give it all on stage,
there's all this love that comes. Then you're with the
same people you've known for years. It's very hard to
calm down. How do you deal with sleep when you're
on the road.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
Yeah, that's hard. Sleep is definitely one of the top
two most important ingredients for having a good voice the
next day. I know that's going to sound like an
old lady thing to say, but taking magnesium before bed
is actually really helpful. I only discovered that in like
the past five years, and it's it really does something
for me. I don't have a big answer. It is hard.

Speaker 1 (01:43:56):
You said, it's a problem. We're in this timeline. Do
you meet your husban, Well, that's funny.

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
A long time ago. I met him around that time,
like when we were either I don't know if we
were signed yet and working on it or we were
about to be in Arkansas, where I'm not really from there.
We moved around a lot as a family, like my
dad's radio job took us all over the place. But

(01:44:24):
we moved to Arkansas when I was thirteen, and Josh's
dad was like a superintendent at the school and they
moved around all the time too. So for this one
period in both of our lives, we were in the
same town at the same place, I mean the same
town at the same time, and we met through a friend.
Like the friend was actually in the band at the time,

(01:44:46):
and it was his like college buddy, and it was
just one of those things where we didn't know each
other well, but I liked him and the timing wasn't
right and actually browed me to life about him. It's
pretty storied. I don't know how much longer we have.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
We got enough time to tell just a couple of
these stories. But okay, you meet him at this you know,
when the stars aligned and you meet him, but then
you both go your separate ways. How does it end
up becoming a romance?

Speaker 2 (01:45:14):
He pursued me and I, well, I should say this
part like when we were first hanging out, like it
was one of those things where he came around and
then he'd be gone for a year because he was
in college somewhere else, and he came back and I'd say, oh, yeah, hey,
I remember you.

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
Cool, he'd be gone for a while, and when we.

Speaker 2 (01:45:36):
One of those times, it just I was in an
abusive relationship and it wasn't anything that I talked about
with anybody on earth. It was absolutely my private thing.
And we went to go grab a table at a
restaurant while the other guys parked the car, and he

(01:45:59):
we really didn't know each other very well, and he
just looked at me and the eyes across the table
and was like, so are you happy? And it just
sent this like shock wave down into my heart and
my heart started beating fast, and I just felt like
he knew something.

Speaker 3 (01:46:15):
And I don't think he really did.

Speaker 2 (01:46:16):
I think he was just being nice and he was
you know, he's a mental health counselor, so he's just
talking to me, but I don't know. I just sort
of malfunctioned it didn't give him a great answer, and
stalled until people came in. But it stuck with me,
and it made me kind of realize my own feelings
about how I wasn't and then I just started writing

(01:46:37):
the beginning of every Redy to Life, how can you
see into my eyes? Like open doors like and all
of that, and then he was gone again. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
It was just like this person in the back of
my mind and he was in another.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
Relationship and I was in a relationship, and yeah, he
just he just kept calling me, like a year later, like.

Speaker 3 (01:46:55):
Hey, I'm in town.

Speaker 2 (01:46:56):
I'm like, how did this guy get my number? Like
I didn't even save your number, Like, please don't call
me because I knew I liked him. And it was
always like I'm not gonna I don't I don't have
an energy for this. I can't deal with this person,
like I don't I don't want to see you because
I like you.

Speaker 3 (01:47:10):
And he's like, hey, I'm leaving town. You know, we're
gonna see.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Me, and we hooked up and it was just forever.
I was like, okay, fine, just finally gave in. But
like before all that, like I remember telling him and
like a mic drop ridiculous, very juvenile kind of way
that I wrote Bring Me to Life about him, right
before it came out, was like we were going it
was during that pre pro time in La and we
were going to go pick up like taco bell or

(01:47:34):
something for everybody, Baha Fresh probably, and we come back
and it was like okay, thanks bye, you know, when
he was leaving town again, and I grabbed the stuff
and like I was halfway out the door and I
just dropped it on him. I was like, hey, listen,
because Bring Me Life was going to be the single,
was the one that all the focus from the label
and everything we were doing was all about bring Me
to Life. And I was like, listen, I just I

(01:47:57):
just feel like I should tell you, like I just
wanted you to know I wrote me to I mean,
like I don't feel this way now, but I did
write bring Me to Life about that one time in
the restaurant when you asked me if I was happy,
and I just want you to know that. But I
got out of the car and closed the door before
he could say anything, and I was reversy in his
face in the window, like like looking like searching for

(01:48:21):
words to say something, and couldn't think of anything to say.
And then time went by again and I didn't see
him for like another six months or something. This is
really weird and then finally he called me and it
was just like like I told you before, Like the
timing was finally like, okay, I give in. So we've
been married for eighteen years.

Speaker 1 (01:48:45):
Okay. When he then called you, you have some success
at that point, right, So at what point does it
become a one on one thing and what point do
you get married?

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
It was a one on one thing. As soon as
I saw him that time. He reached out like it
was right at the end of like another relationship, and
I was still just like I was still in the
sadness of the breakup. That's why I was like, oh,
I'm not ready for this.

Speaker 3 (01:49:14):
But you know, we.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
Saw each other and it was literally like that night,
it was like, dude, I'd like you a lot. I
don't know. It was kind of instant, but it was
different because like with him, it was never like that
about the famous part that wasn't yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
Okay, but you say, now you're going and disappearing for
all this time. Yeah, so how does does it sustain
and then continue and then lead to marriage.

Speaker 2 (01:49:49):
Well, when we got together, that's when I moved to
New York. He was in New York and we were
talking about how we could be around each other.

Speaker 1 (01:49:57):
And move to New York because he was New York.

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
Yeah, okay, and I did. So that was that was
after falling. But at this point, it was when I
was writing for the Open Door and he was like,
you know, I'll come to La I can move there.
I I'll do it, you know whatever. And I was like,
please don't. I don't want to be here. I'm tired
of this down I had visited him before. I was like,

(01:50:23):
I'd rather come to you. Like everything that I'm doing
I can probably do from anywhere. Like, I don't have
to be here. I was here before, you know, because
we were trying to make it, but we made it now,
Like I think I can probably live wherever I want.
So I moved to New York and really fell in
love with New York. You know I was. I was
falling in love with him. It was kind of all
wrapped up. I miss it very much.

Speaker 1 (01:50:44):
Okay, what does he do all day?

Speaker 2 (01:50:48):
Well, at this point, he spends most of his time
making it, making this possible, and taking care of her baby.

Speaker 1 (01:50:53):
Okay, so how long after that moment when you say
that leave the car do you get married?

Speaker 3 (01:51:04):
We dated for a year and a half.

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
Okay, so we got married in seven relatively soon.

Speaker 1 (01:51:10):
How did you decide to have a child, or maybe
you didn't decide.

Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
We always knew that we wanted that, but we actually
we waited. So we hung out and had a nice
time for seven years before going there.

Speaker 3 (01:51:24):
And it was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:51:25):
But like we all, we always knew that we wanted
a child if that was going to be possible for us,
and there was nothing but excitement and happiness when that
finally happened. We waited for a while though, we were like,
come on, let's go, let's be kids before we have
the kid.

Speaker 1 (01:51:42):
Let's go back to Arkansas. I grew up in the northeast.
We're very judgmental Arkansas in our minds. Ultimately, Bill Clinton
came from Arkansas. But explain Arkansas to me.

Speaker 2 (01:51:55):
Well, I mean I before Arkansas, I was, uh, we
were living in Rockford, Illinois, and I was, yeah it
was I thought Rockford was cool and I was just yeah, exactly,
and I was.

Speaker 3 (01:52:15):
And my dad worked at the cool station that year,
like he was at.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
Like, uh, the pop rock actually playing Cats in the
Cradle and stuff like that. Really funny like talking point later,
but moving to Arkansas was like devastating to me, Like
I absolutely hated the idea was so cringe, and also
I didn't know anybody. Just like happing to start over
when you're kind of starting to become a teenager is the.

Speaker 3 (01:52:40):
Most horrible, just horrible feeling. I did not want to go.

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
So yes, I I tend to agree with your feeling
on that going into it, But I mean that as
kind of paid off because there was nothing to do
and I didn't have any friends at first, you know,
and I was just like the new weird kid and
like you know, thirty, so felt like everything about myself
was stupid and awkward and embarrassing. And I just leaned

(01:53:07):
way into like the poetry and the music, and you know,
found my awesome piano teacher, Missus Twombly and choir, got
really really into choir and not art nerds and stuff.
So yeah, being an Arkansas meant that you have to
make your own fun and starting a band and all
that stuff. It all really came out of Like it

(01:53:28):
wasn't like there was so much stuff to do.

Speaker 1 (01:53:30):
Okay, you've lived in New York. Time keeps marching on
the internet, cable TV, every It's not the same like
it used to be. But give me your take on Arkansas.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
Well, I love going back there now to visit my parents.
They settled there and they'd live kind of in the
woods and it's really peaceful. And you know, obviously by
now too, I have so many memories there.

Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
Okay, how do you decide to move from New York
to Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:54:01):
Well, after my brother passed away, my family, so to
drive there from here is like five hours. And actually
it's just one of those things, like I love New
York so much, like just.

Speaker 3 (01:54:17):
It's hard to sum.

Speaker 1 (01:54:19):
Up, but it's a hard place to live.

Speaker 3 (01:54:22):
It can be.

Speaker 2 (01:54:24):
Yeah, yeah, some days it kicks your ass, but there's
always something going on, Like there's inspiration everywhere. And I
never felt lonely, Like it's hard to explain. And I
also having grown up like being in Arkansas, Like as
a teenager, I always felt weird. I always felt like
the weird one. You don't feel like that in New York.

(01:54:46):
I never felt like that. I always felt like I
was exactly in just a world with a whole lot
of other people, and everybody was different, and nobody was
looking at me for wearing weird. Giant fuzzy shoes or
whatever stupid thing having black hair. So I felt like
a real sense of belonging to New York, like I

(01:55:06):
didn't feel anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
But after my brother passed away.

Speaker 2 (01:55:10):
It was like all that magic, all the inspiration and
all those things about New York that I loved so
much just didn't seem as important as being together with
my family and being close to them. Just felt like
time was passing and was precious and going home, you know,
to Arkansas from New York is it's a hassle. You're
taking two flights. You know, you stay for your chunk

(01:55:30):
of time and then you go home. It's not kind
of like you can pop over anytime. And I guess
it's not really like that here either, but it is
more like we could just get in the car. So
I just I was just done. I just I just
wanted to be close to my family really bad right then.
That was the real reason. And also, you know, we
found a place here where the studio like is in
the it's separated from the house, like it's in the back,

(01:55:51):
like it's like the pool house or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:55:53):
And in New.

Speaker 2 (01:55:54):
York once, you know, when it was just us, it
was one thing, but once there's like a baby sleeping,
I can't like sing late at night and do my
thing like I really need to and feel like nobody
can hear me or it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (01:56:07):
It was it was harder.

Speaker 2 (01:56:09):
So the idea of moving to a place where I
could have my like studio structure and scream at the
top of my lungs at three in the morning and
sound like shit and not feel like anybody's judging me
or anything, I just completely alone. Was It really has
been an incredible thing to feel the space here. So
both of those reasons, mainly I want to be close
to family, but also it's cool to have a space

(01:56:31):
like this. And it was lucky too because pandemic hit
right after we moved.

Speaker 1 (01:56:36):
Nashville is not the only place closed to little rock
and Nasha is a big music city, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:56:44):
Right, yes, And we actually we've been rehearsing here. We've
we've rehearded. This has been our spot to get together
and work and record and rehearse for a long time.
And we're spread out all over the country at this point.
I've got one in California, to in Florida, one in Atlanta,
and now I'm here, so our stuff's here.

Speaker 3 (01:57:05):
I run down to.

Speaker 2 (01:57:06):
Our rehearsal space all the time and like grab a keyboard,
come back here and go, Like I get to leave
two days later for tour.

Speaker 1 (01:57:12):
It's the best, Okay, But Nashville used to be country
people twenty years ago, people in La studio, musicians, other people.
They all moved to Nashville.

Speaker 4 (01:57:21):
Then everybody moved to Nashville. So now are you Amy
Lee in your house and it's Nashville. It could be Knoxville,
it could be you know, Chattanooga, or are you intersecting.

Speaker 1 (01:57:34):
With what's going on in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
Uh? Well, I have a lot of friends here, like
like more than half of our Brooklyn community moved here
before we did, Like we were some of those music once.
We're not music people, ah friends, Yeah, most of them
are music people. We've got some really close I don't
know if you know their bands. We have some close
friends that are the Lone Bellow. They're really good Zach Williams,

(01:57:57):
and we've been friends with them forever. They were one
of like our close family friends. We've got another music
industry family friends that were very close with that moved
here first. So and Beth live's here also, so it's
like we already have like a community of friends there.
That was the other thing that made it safe. Yeah,
we didn't just pick a random town. It was kind
of what was given to us. Like, look, this is

(01:58:19):
where your people are. Just go be with your people,
because that's really the truth. Home is where your heart is, Like,
that's where your family is.

Speaker 1 (01:58:26):
Uh okay, pulling back as we said earlier, the landscape
is changed. You can shoot somebody in the morning, it's
not in the news the next day. Do you say
I'm an artist, I just create and do what I want.
Or are you psychologically managing your career all the time?
Are you saying, well, you know, I haven't been in

(01:58:49):
the public sphere, or I need to come back. They're
going to forget me. What's your attitude about the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:58:56):
I don't think about that side of it too much,
Like what do I want want to present? What I
want to project? As far as like staying in it
and striking while all the iron so hot, I've kind
of broken all those rules enough to where I don't
care about it anymore. I have found in my own
experience that I can disappear for a few years and
come back when I have something great to say and

(01:59:18):
if the music's good enough that people will show up
for it. We have really cool fans and they a
lot of them have really just been around. And I
will say too, like artists that I love and I
have been really inspired by my life, a lot of
them do that. They don't put out an album every
year like one of my top bands, as Porta said,

(01:59:39):
they have only made a handful of albums and each
one is so good and special to me and worth
the wait. And I never stopped being a fan or
loving them in all those years that they weren't around,
Like I just I've found out the good news. One
day they were coming out with the new album and
I went and picked it up. So I feel like
I don't care about that part of it obviously. The
thing about that now that is in my heart is

(02:00:01):
about life and how long is my life? And you know,
like that thought of like how long do I really
have where.

Speaker 3 (02:00:08):
We can keep doing this?

Speaker 2 (02:00:10):
And it is very life giving to me in this time,
like it is giving me life.

Speaker 3 (02:00:16):
I feel happy.

Speaker 2 (02:00:17):
I feel like when I'm working on something, that's when
I feel the best. I really do, like I can't
just sit around and do nothing. I feel like this
I'm good at. This is what I was born to do.
It gives me joy, it gives other people joy. I
want to do it. So now there's an urgency for
me that isn't really about my career what I want
to do. I've done that. I feel pretty satisfied honestly

(02:00:40):
with what we've done. But it's coming from a place
of I guess just it's existential. It's like, I don't
know how long we have and I love doing it
and I want joy in my life, and let's go.
Let's hurry up because who knows what comes tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (02:00:55):
I mean, that's well put. But you've had amazing success.
Is there any holy grail or something beyond this that
you want to achieve or is it more like you said,
with the extential thing, I just want to produce.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
It'd be cool to win another Grammy with my band now,
like the band that we've become, not the kids that
were just starting out and everything has changed since then.
Just scraping the surface. That would be cool. I would
love that for us. It also be cool to go
on SNL. I don't know why I've never done that.

(02:01:34):
But like I can't say, I honestly can't tell you
that I'm like striving and driving towards winning any award.
Like that's not really what I'm not trying to sound cool,
that's not really why I'm in it. There's a satisfaction
that's just a lot bigger than that. But that would
be cool. I would love that.

Speaker 1 (02:01:54):
Okay, Amy, thanks so much for being honest, forth right,
and open, very verbal. I know you can turn it
on when there are people there and other times you
have to be in your own mind. But in any event,
I want to thank you so much for taking this
time with my audience.

Speaker 3 (02:02:08):
Thank you for taking the time.

Speaker 2 (02:02:10):
I've been your fan for quite a while and was
excited when I heard that you wanted to talk to me.

Speaker 3 (02:02:15):
So thanks for taking the time.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
I was excited wanted to talk to me in any
of them until next time. This is Bob left sets