Emilio Castillo

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left That's podcast. My
guest today is Emilio Castillo, the only man who's been
in every iteration of Tower of Power. Emilia, good to
have you here, thank you, good to be here. Okay,
why was it named Tower of Power? Oh? Kind of
a boring story. You know. We were called the Motowns.

(00:30):
We're a little soul band in the East Bay, in
the Bay Area, and uh we wanted to get into
film or West and so we thought we'll never get
in there, you know, with these suits and razor cuts
and a name like the motown So we thought we
got to find one of those weird names, like all
those bands Quicksilver, Messenger Service and loth In hand People.
And you're like one of the few people remembers Lothor

(00:52):
of the hand People out of Denver. Well, his drummer
used to record from. Okay, there you have it. But
we we were on a break out a little studio
and Hayward and Uh, I was sitting at the desk
of the owner and there was like a three page
list of all weird band names. Really, and I'm looking
at the names, I'm going there, there's no way we
can't be this, we can't. But then I saw the

(01:13):
name Tower of Power and they go, hey, guys, what
about Tower of Power? They go, yeah, yeah, that's us,
you know, and that was it. Well that's really funny
because I thought it was, you know, such a large
band with all the different horns, etcetera. And therefore it
was called Tower of Power. I think that's what they
thought about the name, you know. Okay, so when it
was the Motown's was the goal too? Was it like

(01:35):
a band that played it, you know in bars? Because
obviously named like the Motime, you're playing motimes, you're playing
R and B music, or it was the goal always
to become a big success, get a recording deal. You know,
I'd be lying if I told you I even thought
that deep. You know, we just loved playing music, particularly
sold music. We played nightclubs, bars, after hours joints, a

(01:57):
lot of after hours joints where you had to not
only play, but entertained because there was no dancing in
the Bay Area between two and six am. It was
a blue law. Okay. Just so uh from different days,
When was the last time you get a drink? You
got you stopped drinking? Are two from two to six am.
They went into the parking lot and drank and then
came in and drank cokes while you were playing. Okay,

(02:19):
but you could play, but they couldn't dance, and they
couldn't drink a couldn't dance, Yeah, okay, I mean New
York is a really late night town. L A is
a really early town. If that era in the early
seventies was the Bay Area that late at night of
a town. Yeah, this is actually uh you know, late sixties. Yeah,
And you know, there was two cities in the Bay

(02:40):
Area where you could dance at those times. One was Fremont, California,
where we lived, and the other one was all Benny, California,
on the other side of the East Bay. And you
could actually dance there. And so they were always looking
for really good dance bands bands and you could dance
good too. And it would go through the whole Bay Area.
You know, people in San Francisco, Palo Altos and say,
they say, oh, there's a good band to dance too,

(03:03):
you know, and at Little Richard's in Fremont, and we
would we would play be four hours in San Jose,
pack everything up, drive there at two thirty in the morning.
We'd be set up and ready to go. We'd hit
it and people would come in and they would just
be dancing. There was a wrought iron railing around this
little dance for it. They'd be bent over it like
this man just dancing, you know. And then they go

(03:23):
out on the brakes and drink and come back and
dance some more. Okay, how big was that club? You
a small club? I mean, how many people would be
dancing on the floor. I don't think you could fit
fifty people, Okay, That's why I was asking the size
of that. Okay, But the club was packed besides the
dance flo okay, just so I know, and that in
those two clubs we could dance becauld. They also serve

(03:45):
alcohol between just up until two, up till two and
then up. And what happens at six am they opened up.
They took this plywood off the bar and they opened
up the bar, and we continue playing for two more hours,
and inevitably we'd finish around seven, you know, and the
borrower would come up and you put a twenty dollar

(04:05):
bill on my B three and he'd say, play another set,
and we would take it. Wow. Okay, at the time,
you were the boat towns. How many nights a week
we are playing? Well, you know, we used to play
weekends when we were kids, and then you graduated high
school and then we played whenever we could. Obviously we
were doing before hours gigs to you know, and but

(04:26):
you know we weren't like really popular with like the
high schools and stuff because we got into nightclubs early.
So you know, we're playing around the bar of black
nightclubs regularly, just those kind of after hours joints. There
was Soul City and Hayward. There was a Lucky thirteen
in Albany, there was Frenchies were sly Stone, so they
got his name. You know, all these clubs and we
played a lot, okay, and then you change your name

(04:50):
to Tower of Power. Did you get into the film
or west? Well, what happened is, you know, I met
this guy Doc, that's my songwriting partner, Stephen Coopka, and
uh he was the first. Why he wasn't yet he
was Steve just a jump ahead. Why did he turn
into Doc? Because his father was kind of a famous
doctor that got caught in this scandal in Berkeley. And

(05:13):
our singer Rick Stevens, Uh, he's the guy that went
to jail for thirty seven years. He found out about
Doc's dad and said, oh man, we gotta call you
the doctor. And then the guy taking the photos of
our first record, So yeah, we'll call him the funky Doctor.
And then over the years he just became Doc. Everybody
calls him. Okay, So how did the father get in trouble? Yeah,
it's kind of a you know, sortad story. I think

(05:33):
he had a mistress and that kind of embarrassment to
the family. Okay, And then talk about the thirty seven
years up up the river while we're there. Well, that
was my lead singer, Rick Stevens. He was our second
lead singer, and I fired him for heroin addiction, and
about four years later he went on a drug run
and killed three people and went to prison for three
or seven years. They pinned it all on us, although

(05:56):
he'd been out of the band four years, you know, right.
And so just because this an interesting fact, how many
lead singers this Tower of Power had, you know, I
lost count? Okay, let's go back to fillmore West. So
what happened? So Doc is the first hippie I ever met,
and he played the baritone sacks. You know, and we
were trying to add a horn, uh horn with somebody

(06:19):
to the section. We thought we wanted a trombone player,
but you know, they weren't working out. They were really square.
They couldn't do the steps, you know. And so we're
doing this gig and I met Doc and he says,
you know, you got a good band, but your horn
section needs some bottom. And by the way I played
the berry Sack, I invited him to come, and you know,
all the guys like when he gets there, hippie guy,

(06:41):
you know, and they're all like, you know, what's this,
you know, and I go, uh, guy's a quirky guy,
plays the barry, you know. So he comes in and
immediately as soon as we heard the sound, we loved it,
you know. And so he's in the band for a while,
and he really likes what I do with all the
songs because I used to change all these soul tunes
around to make them sort of unique, our own. And
he says to me, you know, why don't we write

(07:02):
our own songs? That we started writing first song we
ever wrote, You're still a young Man. And then, you know,
we knew it was a dead end playing the stuff
we were doing so, you know, all those clubs, so
everybody was going to the Film or West and Bill
Graham had started that the two record labels. There was
Film More Records in San Francisco Records, and everybody was

(07:23):
trying to get on there. So we submitted a tape
and to our surprise, he wanted to scid us. I
think David Rubinson had a lot to do it. Okay,
a little bit slower. Okay, when you change your name
to Tower of Power, have you already submitted the tape? Uh?
It was the writer around the same time actually, which

(07:43):
changed your name the Tower of Power, and then you
know we're recording this. We we we started writing songs
and we recorded a few of them, but we recorded
a lot of covers, but there covers our own sort
of version, like Joe Cocker. Would we arrange the song? Right? Okay,
how did you hook up with David Rubinson? Well, he

(08:04):
was the guy that Bill Graham brought out to the
Bay Area. He was the you know, the big producer.
He had produced Moby Grape and some others, and and
they went into business and started these two record companies. Okay,
so you submitted the tape that you had made independently.
David was not involved producing. It was not the thing
is We got uh a slot on the Tuesday Night auditions.

(08:27):
It was in November. Okay, this is like early in
the year. This is nine, and we had we had
gotten busted for being underage for drinking because we're in
one of those after hours joints and the bar opened
and my trumpet player got a drink. The ABC busted us.
So all of a sudden, we had no gigs and

(08:48):
we're aiming for this gig in November at the film
wore and that's like our only hope. Okay, I mean,
I know the film or reachs. I grew up in
the East Coast. Tuesday Night was kind of like the
Troubadoor in l A or What Night. How did it worked? Yeah,
audition They would have like five bands and then they
all wanted to get signed to Bill Grahams. But it
was open to the audience. Oh yeah, I was packed. Okay,

(09:11):
So you're how did you get that gig? You like
submitted your request, you know. We went there and we said,
you know, we want an audition, and they said, okay,
we got a slot novem whatever. Okay, Well, did you
have a manager? At this point? You were effectively the manager.
We just didn't have a manager. I was the leader.

(09:32):
That's why who you know, they always had someone who
was making the connection. Usually it's the drummer. So I'm surprised. Well,
my brother was a drumm and he was older, and
so he was the leader first. But my dad made
me be the leader. Your dad made you be the leader.
He said, you know, you need to be. When I
was younger, you know, he said you need to be
the leader, and I go, I don't want to be
the leader. Jack's older, you know, he's the leader. And

(09:54):
he goes, no, no, you're the one. You're the one
you need to be. He forced me. Okay, two things.
How much older as your brother? Mons? Okay, so he's
really not that much older. Well you don't think like
that when you're a kid, I know, but people talk
about older brothers sometimes ten years. The next thing, what
did your father see in you that he knew you
had to be the leader? He saw musical talent, he

(10:15):
saw a creativeness, and he saw just a passion for it.
I mean when I started the band, you know, life
change for me completely, and my focus was that band
and it's been that way for fifty years. Okay, we'll
get back to that, but now you have this Thursday
night audition, continue from Tuesday. Excuse me, Tuesday night audition
continue from there. So you know we have been busted.

(10:35):
So we're just like that audition is all we got. Meanwhile,
we had made the tape and we got a friend
of ours. He edited it and we submitted it to
the film More. OK a little bit slower. Where did
you make that tape? Who produced that tape? What happened
at the after hours joint? Really? Yeah? You know, you
just taped our sets and then a friend of ours
who was a drummer for quite a famous band called

(10:56):
the Loading Zone. They were they were already playing the
film or West, and he edited them. He said, you know,
let me take care of these edit. We were like,
what's edit? We didn't even know what that was. Do
you remember how many songs were on that original tape?
For how long it was? So when we gave it
to them, there was probably Yeah, we had a lot
of missions. Okay, original though, right right? I realized, but

(11:19):
you know today demo tapes like you know, three songs,
but there was like ten Originals. Okay, so you get
the Tuesday night slot. What happens, Well, you know, we're
the we're the closer for some reason. And uh, there's
like five bands, and any of those bands we ever
heard of since I remember Neil Sean was in one
of them. Yeah, yeah, and I remember real clearly. Yeah.

(11:42):
And but they were all the same, you know. They
were like playing in A and E and you know,
had guitars and you know, and they were like rock bands,
you know. And then we come out and we got
all these horns, and we got this short, little black singer,
you know, and they took one look at us, they
turned around, they started walking out, and we hit with
the a song called Opened the Door by James Brown,

(12:06):
but a little bit and it was like somebody said
about face. Man, they all just turn around, start walking back,
and I see this head stick out of this place
in the back, and that was Bill Graham. He always
liked rhythm, he always like horns, and he was like
he checked it out, you know. But we were at
the end of our rope and I was going back
to Detroit my parents and moved back there, and I

(12:27):
told the guys, I'm going back for the holidays. If
nothing happens, I'm not coming back. We were starving because
we couldn't work because we busted, you know, and so, uh,
I didn't think nothing was going to happen. I didn't honestly,
you know. I flew home. Doc calls me about three
days later. He says, you gotta come back, you gotta
come back. He dug it. He dug it, and I go,
who dug it? And he goes Bill Graham. He wants

(12:50):
to sign us. Well, you know, we didn't know. I said,
hock the organ and send me a ticket. I had
this little box organ, you know, I didn't like using it.
He hocked it, sent me an airplane ticket. And then
we went to the loading zones manager who really liked us,
but never thought in a million years we would get
you know, his his singer Linda Tillery was trying to

(13:12):
get signed to her bands. We linded Divine and uh.
We went to Ron Barnett. We said, you know, we
don't know what to do. Man. He gave us his country.
We had the contract, and he says, you know, he's
kind of stunned. And so he comes out to visit
with the band and he says, how many people are
in the band at that point there was nine? Okay,

(13:34):
so okay, go back to Barnett. So he comes out.
He says, you know, if I manage you, something needs
to be understood. Whatever I tell you to do, you
have to do it. And we all go, You're gonna
manage us, like we couldn't believe it, you know. And
uh and he says, first of all, this record deal,
he goes, it's it's not a very good record deal,
but you have no bargaining power whatsoever, and you're lucky

(13:56):
to have it. I can't even believe that he's offered
it to you. He said, there are a few changes
I'm gonna shoot for, and he got about three of them.
You know. Was there a lawyer involved? I don't think
there was. Actually think he went to Bill because he
knew Bill because he dealt with the loadings, right, and
he just said, look, you know, these guys are just kids,

(14:17):
but this right here, you know, and uh and he
got that this this stuff changed and then uh what
happened is, you know, David Rubinson then started dealing with
us because he was the producer, right, Okay, I hear
from Rubenson all the time, and he's in France, right right, Yeah,
and he's always a big health expert because he had
a heart attack whatever. But I'll let him tell his

(14:38):
own story. But he was known for being difficult and autocratic.
Was that your experience, Yes, it was, but you know,
I'll say this. You know he uh, he had the
foresight to want to sign a young unknown band. He
saw the raw talent and he's the one. He he
didn't like my brother the way he played drums, and

(15:00):
he said, we're gonna bring in a studio drummer. We
were like, you know what, you know, we're a band.
What are you talking about? You know, it almost broke
up the band, actually, you know, yeah, I know that's
a big thing. You got a member of a band.
He frequently breaks up the band. Yeah. Yeah. So but
you know, my brother at the last minute decided he
was going to go back to Detroit and view with
my parents and he said, I want you to stay
at and what I don't I don't think the band

(15:21):
should lose the contract because I was gonna take my
brother and just start over. And uh, and so I
stayed and then um, I had seen David Garibaldi, our
drummer today. He was filling in for the opening for
the Befour Hours band and uh I said this, this
is the drummer for us, and was he good enough

(15:41):
for Rubenson and Rubens and still used the studio. Soon
as soon as David Garibaldi came into Man Plus, I
brought this guy, Willie Fulton, the stinging guitar player that
played like Steve Cropper even more so it's just great
and so there was never no more discussion about changing nobody. Okay,
so you make that record, how long does it take? Okay,
you play in October? When is the deal signed? When

(16:04):
do you go in the studio? Are we signed? You know,
within a probably within a month after that, you know,
and uh and then they called us. It was actually interesting.
It was the day that the Stones played Altamont. We
lived near Altimont, you know, and so we were all
we were just about to walk out the door to
go to Altamont and we get this phone call from uh.

(16:28):
We used to call h Mutton, Jeff. They were like Rubens,
and they go, we want you in the studio at
one o'clock, you know, going over to Pacific Recording at
San Mateo and We're like, what's happening. We want to
see how you record? And it took us in and
uh and we did. You know, we recorded a few songs.

(16:48):
My brother was still in the band. It was that's
what made him decide. Yeah, you know, he didn't want
my brother in the band or the guitar player, you know.
And uh, but then you know, once we got David
Garibaldi and plus we're way you're in the studio, then
you sure what happened at Altamont? What goes through your head? Oh? Yeah,
we got home that day and we're like, man, you know,
the the guy got murdered and I was like riot

(17:10):
and the Hells Angels went crazy. And you know, years
later we knew the girl that was with the guy
that got murdered. Oh yeah, yeah, Judy Nelson, never forget it. Wow,
that's quite a connection. So you'd go in the studio
that day, David's unhappy with a couple of players. What
happens next, Well, we get David Garibaldi and Willie Fulton
and we're getting hot in the Bay Area. I mean,

(17:33):
so now you can work again. Well, yeah, what what
happened is that Bill Graham had this agency also, so
he not only signed us to the record deal, he
signed us to songwriting deal, publishing deal, booking agent, and management.
And he had an agency, the Millard Agent, and Terry
Persons and Joe Bailey were there, and so they call up.

(17:55):
You know, first of all, we informed them that we
can no longer play these clubs, so you know, they
can't book us, and none of the high school's watered
us because they had no idea who we were. We
hadn't played so long. And so he calls up and
he says, uh, what do you think about going to
Mexico City for fourteen days? And then we go are
you kidding? You know? And you'll play ten days and

(18:17):
you'll be off four We go great, you know, and uh,
they were trying to bring Santana down there, and they
had banned concerts for the last two years because of
a riot that happened when The Dead played there. But
they wanted to bring Santana down there, and so they
were like testing the waters with some fillmore groups. So
they sent us in this band named Kimberly, and we

(18:38):
went down there. We played four days and there was
like federalities surrounding the joint, like every night, so nobody
came in. We're playing like three people, you know, and
after four days the thing shut down. There was this
guy Mario was the promoter, and he was poling up
with uh, Jim Morrison. He was down there pardon with

(19:01):
this guy Maso. And so after four days he says,
that's it, it's not gonna work. So we had like
ten days off. Jim Morrison's down there and think they're
taking us to like press parties that we're jamming with
this band called the Love Army, and you know, it
was a very memorable time. I remember I got up
one morning, I walked out of the hotel sweets and paradoor.

(19:23):
I look up and Jim Morrison is hanging over the
balcony and he's throwing up. And we would see him
and like, you know, nine thirty in the morning at breakfast,
and he'd be so nice and so together, you know,
but he'd already be hitting the screw divers, you know.
And then at night we go sit in with the
Love Army and he said, you know, let's play some
good old American rock and roll, you know, and he

(19:44):
swing his microphone and you know, I remember he caught
the symbol stand and pulled it over and acted over.
It was really a scene, you know, but very memorable time.
That was our first tour ever. Okay, then you get back,
what's up with working and recording? Well, we make the
record and it's a it's a regional hit. Okay, you

(20:04):
make you make the record. How long does they take
you to make the record? Two weeks? Okay? Why is
the first album on Atlantic and the subsequent albums on
Warner Brothers. Because after we made the record, we got
pretty hot in the Bay Area. So then they send
this out on tour and we get out there and
like all bands, you know, we're all disappointed because we

(20:25):
go and there's no records nowhere, and Bill grahams we
know this now. We didn't know it then, but Bill
Graham's calling on me and heard again and say, you know,
what's going on? There's no records in the stores, and
you know, but we come back all discouraged. And this
is when we had we had fired the first singer
and we had brought in Rick Stevens and he's, you know,
now he's in the band officially. A lot of drugs

(20:47):
are going on, and he's saying, you know, I know
a guy up there, and you know he fought Bill
Graham and Da Dada and he managed Slide and he
managed Buddy Miles and blah blah blah, and like fools
we went and we could front of Bill and a
really really stupid way. Okay, just with that guy or
just by yourself that who was that guy, Louis Gordon. Yeah,

(21:08):
he went to jail. Shortly after that, they confronted Bill.
Out of that place. Bill. Bill wanted to actually fight
Rick Stevens in the gutter. He goes right now in
the gutter. Kieva Christo was Bill's lawyer. He had his
arms round No Bill, no, you know, we walked out.
I remember we got around the corner was right across
from the film or West. We're around the corner from

(21:28):
the film or West. I said, I looked at those
guys that go, we made a huge mistake today, huge
And let's go up to Louise House around a lot
of coke and drinking and chicks. And but then um
me and Doc we started to go see Bill on
Mondays when we were in town. Well, we just to
be clear, how did it at the meeting end? Not good?

(21:51):
A lot of cursing and yelling. You know that's your problem,
you know that kind of stuff. Okay, but he didn't
say I'm done. He no, he didn't have to say
I'm done. He had our contract, he owned us. We
didn't know this at the time, you know, but eventually
Doc and I would go see him on Mondays and
we'd go in and we say, you know, Bill, you know,
we're so sorry with the way we handle this thing,

(22:13):
and we just we really do to make another record
and the band's bigger than ever, we're doing better than ever.
We gotta make a record, and you got the record
contract and he's and he'd start talking real soft. He say,
you know, guys, is I know you made a mistake.
I understand you know you're young. Blah blah blah. He goes,
and you know I have this contract on you. He goes,

(22:35):
you know what I managed Santana. I didn't have a
contract on him. And he standing up, goes and he
screwed me, you know, And he started yelling at us
and pointing us finger and we'd be in the chair
and he had an office that had glass all around it,
and so there's like thirteen secretaries out there watching us,
you know, and we did this like you know, four
or five six times. You go in and the girls

(22:57):
will see us walking in and they got good luck
that you know. So okay, Santana screwed him. So what
did he say? He was gonna do nothing. Nothing, Nothing
got resolved. And so finally what happened is that guy,
that cocaine dealer manager went to jail, and we got
Ron Burnett back. We went to Ron, told him what happened.
He went to Bill and he goes, all right, Bill,

(23:18):
what do you want? You know? And Bill just screamed
for about forty minutes and then he goes, I want
forty dollars and two points, you know. And Ron went
to Warners. Everybody was going to Warners and they wanted
us bad. And Warners paid that part to Bill. Okay,
how long did he pay for? How many albums did
you get two points on in the deal? The record deal?
So for the whole deal he got two points? Okay.

(23:42):
So who was the person at Warner Brothers who was interested?
Who did you deal with? Well, you know, Joe Smith,
Mo Austin. Uh, there wasn't a specific person. I mean
Joe who unfortunately recently passed. He tells a story about
going up and meeting the Grateful Dead. Was there anybody
who came up to see you? Well? Uh, we got
to know all of them shortly after that. Once they

(24:02):
signed this, we did bumps that he was. They had
a press party out at Mickey Heart's Ranch. Uh, and
we were out there, and you know, Joe Smith was there,
and most was there. Carl Um. Oh, god, I can
see him. What's his last name? But it will come
to me, Yeah, big guy. And plus we all went
on tour with those guys. They took this tour out
to Europe called the Warner Brothers Music Show with six bands,

(24:24):
and we were one of the bands. Little Feet, Graham,
Central Station, the Doobie Brothers, Montrose, and a group called Bonnaroo.
That would be quite a tour, Okay, So what was
it like beyond that tour? Oh, it was a decadent tour. Yeah,
it was a lot of fun. We got really close

(24:45):
with Little Feet because we had already done one of
their records. We did this song called Spanish Moon, and
so we used to sit in with them and do
the horn parts and we got real close with that. Okay.
That begs a question, what's your take on Lowell? George
phenomenal can say? Really, I mean, you know, I just
he knew how not to overplay. There's a better way

(25:06):
to say that. But you know, there's certain records. We
just put a little taste guitar and he had the
sweetest voiced Yeah, unbelievable. Okay, So Bump City. I heard
bump City because that was in the era when uh
they put out the two first for two dollars, and
it was on one of them. That's how I discovered

(25:27):
bump City, Bump Bump bump. Okay, So let's go back
a chapter. They're nine guys in the band. Well by
then it was eleven. Okay, you can't make any money? Yeah,
Well that's why I tell the kids today. They say,
you know, any advice, I go, yeah, I start a trio.
I mean, how are you staying alive with eleven people

(25:49):
in the band. Well, it's a mood point because whatever
money we were making, we're wasting it. You know, we're nuts,
completely crazy. For the first twenty years, we made every
mistake known to men. Okay, other than the lead singers,
how many other musicians went in and out? Or was
it generally steady. I can't even cut the singers. I'm

(26:10):
not going to cut all those musicians. What I'm trying
to say is in your hey in that Warner Brothers heyday, Okay,
was the band relatively stable? Well, I mean we were staying.
You know, it was always like, you know, Doc and
me and Rocco the bass player. Rocco has been with
me since I was fourteen, and he was all the
way up until last year. You know what fired him?

(26:31):
I fired him for eight years in the early eighties
for her own addiction, but brought him back. I mean
that begs a question on the contract. Whose names were
on the contract? Everybody or just the three of you
or everybody? Everybody? Yes, okay, so somebody leaves, you have
to have a whole legal thing with getting him out
of the band. Yeah, it wasn't a big deal, you know,

(26:51):
they just we just informed the record company and things
went on. You know. Okay, did you ever get any royalties? Yeah?
I still get Okay, Okay, how do you split up
the royalties? Oh? I don't split them up. Well, you know,
over the years we went and we said you got
to send it to him direct, you know. Okay, but
if they play it on the record, everybody who everybody

(27:12):
was in the band at that time still gets a piece,
assuming there is a piece. Yeah, I mean there's only
there's only a piece on the Warners records. You know,
we went to CBS. They give us a ton of
money over there. We never recouped there, you know, so
there's not a bunch of royalties coming in to be
split up. You know. Well, it's just kind of funny.
It's you know, very easy going as opposed to you know,

(27:32):
so many cutthroats stories. I mean, we've got our cutthroat stories.
I guess I don't think of one off the top
of my head. But okay, so Bump City hits and
I certainly remember. I guess it was seventy five. You know,
there's only so much oil in the ground. Yeah. Man,
that's one of my favorites. Okay, tell me the story
of how that came together. Well to Doc. Doc is

(27:55):
the quirky one, you know, and so we were by
then we had written a lot of songs, and he
comes to me. It was during the time in the
Bay Area was one of the first oil spills, and
so they had this emergency thing all over the news
people are. You know, they're showing all these films with
people washing seagulls because they're covered with oil, you know,
they're dying and uh, and we were watching it and

(28:16):
Doc says to me, you know, we should write a
song called only so Much Oil in the Ground. And
I go, what's that? What do you mean? You know?
And he was, you know, like, what are we gonna
do when we run out oil? So what happened? And
then he tells me the story that when he was
a kid. I guess he was acting out and they
sent him to the principal's office and he goes in
there and the guy says, Stephen, is there anything troubling you?

(28:38):
And Doc waits a minute and then he goes, uh, yeah,
what's that, Stephen? And he says, what are we gonna
do when we run out of oil? I went to
high school. Principal said, go back to class. Yeah, you know.
But so we wrote that song. But I remember Raven
to my manager Brown Barnette at the time. I said, man,

(28:58):
this is the best song we ever did. It's hippist lyric,
the hippist rhythm section, it's the classiest horn section, the
baddest organ soul, the baddest tenor sol the vocals off
the chart. I just I thought it was the best
record we ever made, you know, and did nothing. Well
it's interesting because yes it did nothing on the charts,

(29:19):
but I could never get over it. I can tell
you where I was playing it and you know, being
into it because it was funny. I didn't think you
said it was true, but it was also kind of
funny the way the lyric was, Well, what's the story
with bump City? How did that come together? Well? Uh,
there used to be a song called the Bump and
uh and you know, as I say, when we played,

(29:42):
the dance floor was always full, so people will be
out there bumping, you know. And so we had this phrase.
You know, it's like he did you go to the club?
That's that man? It was bump city. You know. It
was just a phrase that we used. And then we thought, well,
I mean that that's pretty much all we did. We
hung out at the nightclub, you know, not only playing,
but even on off nights. You know, we'd sleep in
really late because we've been partying all night, and then

(30:03):
we get up and go eat, and then we go
down to the nightclub and hang out with all our friends,
and so we thought we should write a song and
call it down to the nightclub and then you know,
well this nightclub will be called Bump City, you know,
and it's a phrase like bump de bump de bump.
That's what we do. Okay. So, how many albums on
Warner Brothers six six and how does that ten year

(30:27):
go from your viewpoint? I'm not sure what you mean
by that. I mean, was it all a good experience
with Warner Brothers? Yes, excellent experience. They were great, they
loved us. We wanted to resign, and they gave us
a good offer. But this is when if you read
that book Hitman, remember like they talked about how yet
Nikoff would just he would just sign X just to
piss off Joe Smith. Yeah, it was James Taylor went

(30:49):
to you know. So they gave us so much money
we couldn't say no, you know, and so we we
take the money and we get signed. And then they
got no clue because they never wanted us to the
first place, and they had no clue what to do us.
They looked at us as a problem. You're you're already
lost if you look at something that way, you know,
and so there we gave us all this money, but

(31:11):
you know it was not a good relationship, and pretty
sure it just deteriorated. Okay, how demoral is it was?
It was difficult, you know, I know that drugs had
a lot to do with it for us. You know,
it wasn't like it's all their fault, man, you know,
we we we dug our own grave, you know, but
we were still making great music and uh, you know,

(31:32):
they just weren't the company for us. What can I say? Okay,
how many records were the CBS we did? Uh three?
It was a sixth album deal, but we only did three.
We did uh another stopping us now and we came
to play and back to Opland. Okay, but then then

(31:57):
the dal Ns that kind of leaves you kind of know.
We asked them to let us out. That's what happened.
And and I had been talking to Ted Templement over
Warner Brothers, and Ted was you know, we knew him
and he loved Garibaldi. We had gotten Garibaldi back in
the band. Garibaldi left the band four times always because
we were just two nuts. Couldn't take watching us kill ourselves,

(32:19):
you know, So but he had come back because he
couldn't stand being away either, so he had come back.
And we're playing better than ever, you know. So I
go to see Ted Templement, you know, and I say, man,
you know, the band is like better than ever and
we're stuck over there and you know, and he says,
you get out of that deal and I will sign you.
And at the time, Jeff Wald was my manager. Jeff

(32:40):
Well Helen Ready's, uh, very intense guy. I like Jeff Wald.
We got along well. And uh, he had a big meeting.
In a matter of fact, the meeting was the day
that they signed Chicago. We signed them, and the meeting
was are they going to keep us? So let us
go what are they gonna do? You know? And we

(33:00):
went in there and remember Jeff Wald, he said, uh,
when you go in this meeting, is yet Nikos is
gonna be there, Lunvall is gonna be there. He goes,
but don't pay no attention to him. He was the
only thing that matters is this guy named Jack Craig. Oh,
and he says he's got a n a hole about
this big and he goes, uh, he goes, if he
if he wants you you're gonna stay, and if you don't,
you're not. He goes, and and I remember it was

(33:21):
Bruce Lnvall that I really appealed to because he he
was a solid guy. And we're at the table and
they had already made the decision to resign Chicago. I
remember Robert Lamb came out and offered me a bunch
of blow and it's like party, you know. Then I
go in and I'm sitting there with all these executives
and my manager at Jeff Walden and Uh. I looked

(33:42):
down at Bruce lonvill and I go, if you guys
are gonna let us record, have the decency to let
us go. And I remember he looked at me. He
was merely, I need to tell you something. He goes,
No matter what decision we make today, it has nothing
to do with your music. You got a great band,
and we're gonna talk about this and get back to you.
And they released us, and so we went right to Warners,

(34:04):
and Warners gave us a bunch of money and ten
Temple and said he would sign us. But then he
started having problems. You know, he was messing around with
Nicolette Larson and he had just done minute by minute
and all those big Dooms records, and he went on
the road with the Doobies. He's playing because Nicolette was
singing background and she was opening the show. And he's

(34:24):
out there and he's doing a lot of drugs and
stuff and he won't return my calls, and so we're
just like, you know, we're stuck. We got signed, got
all this money, but we're not making a record. So
I went to the opening, So but you did get resigned,
got resigned? Yeah, great deal. And I go to the
okan Hounitorium and he's on stage with the Dobie Brothers
and when he comes down, I'm waiting at the bottom

(34:46):
of the stairs and I tell him, I go, ted,
we have to record. He was, oh, oh, hey man,
good to see you. Listen, he goes, I'm not doing
so good. You know, I got problems with my liver.
I got a hold of my nose. You know, I
got stuff going on in us. But because I think
you should produce the record, and I go, that's fine.
I go, but we gotta make the record, you know.
And he goes, I'm gonna talk to them Monday and

(35:07):
I'll get back to you. He goes to Warners to
the Heads Up you know, Mo and car Joe and
all them, and he says, uh, you know, Tower Parker
needs to make their record and but I can't do it.
I'm gonna have to go to treatment. I got liverything.
And they all told him we only signed them because
you wanted them, and they released us. Yeah, so in

(35:28):
the eyes of the industry, oh yeah, we look like
horror show, you know. And that's sort of the final
straw that made the eighties come into existence, funny way
of putting it. So, how did you make it through
the eighties? Well, eventually, uh, you know, CBS was trying

(35:49):
to get us to conform him to the disco thing happen,
you know that. And you know, we tried to do
what they wanted because they're giving us all this money,
you know, But we always sounded like Tower Power no
matter what we did. They're going like, if you could
sound like these other bands, you know, And we used
to think of ourselves like this is like we're cursed.
Why can't we sound like these bands that are on
the radio? You know? After we got lost the deal

(36:09):
with Warners and everything and nothing was happening. I told
the guys, let's just make the music like we always
did because we could always play live. We always had
a following, you know, and so we just went back
to making our original songs and doing them the way
we do them, and things gradually started to get better.
And then Paul Shaffer really dug us. We started doing
guest shots with the horn section, and even you know,
I went on, I sang a song and this is

(36:31):
a Letterman when he's on Ave on NBC, and we were.
We were on Letterman like sixteen times in the eighties,
you know. And then right about that time, we met
Huey Lewis in the News and Huey Lewis was a
fan we had. We had played for Bill Graham at
the Old Waldorf and we had played all this new
material that we had and he came backstage and he

(36:52):
was gushing all over us, you know, and wow, where'd
you get those songs? And uh, and he goes, my
name is Huey Man. I'm a huge fan. And I
had heard of Huey Lewis and the News and I
thought out all these weird bands, Devo and the Knack
and the Motels and the Cars. I thought, that's a
cool name. And when he says my name is Huey Lewis,

(37:12):
I go, oh, you got that band the News. He goes, yeah,
we love you guys, you know. And so then like
a week later, we're doing a session at CBS, which
was right by Rubinson's office and uh, he comes over.
He says, we're across the hall. We have these two
songs we think would be perfect for your horns, and
we did, uh, I hope you'll love me like you

(37:33):
say you do and working for a living, and when
I had not heard them up to that point, but
I go and hope you love me like you say
you do. I don't know if you ever heard that song.
It's like it's like a salmon dave to right. It's
so full, you know, And I was like, whoa, look
at these guys. You know. So we immediately hit it off,
and then they started to blow up a bit and
we would go sitting with them. They come to l A,

(37:55):
we go sit in different places, we'd sit in. They
loved it, you know. But when they put out the
Sports A sports yeah huge, you know, And he comes
to me and he says, uh, you know, would you
go on tour with us the Horns. I said, I
got the band, you know, I can't just leave them.
And he said, he said, well, you know, it just
really will make it really worth your money, and blah

(38:16):
blah blah. And I said, I'll tell you what if
you let me bring the band out to do midnight
shows after your concert and you announced it at the
concert and say that your band is coming to sit
in with us and and you know, and mention us
in all the interviews, I'll do it. And he has
no problem. Yeah, and he did. He was a man
of his word. Okay, so you play the gig and

(38:39):
you would ever city. This was when they were at
the height of their success. And so you get a
local club where, yeah, we'll be playing Jones Beach and
we do a midnight show at the bottom line. And
he had announced it, you know, at the concert to
eighteen thousand people and say we're going to go sitting
with our party to night the place to be seen

(39:00):
right right right right. We played Connecticut, you know, we
do the Agora, you know, and all these people would
be there, you know pretty soon. It's like things are
getting better, you know. And then okay, so continue the story. Well,
then we couldn't get a record deal though, you know,
because they still looked at us like, you know, like
their music will never be popular again, and these these
guys are over, and that's what the media was saying,

(39:22):
you know. And uh, finally there was this guy. His
name's Michael Kaplan, really cool guy. Yeah, he's from Connecticut.
He's had a lot of other people now yeah, and
he was at uh well, he used to come to
my gigs. He used to go, I'm your biggest fan,
and I'm gonna be in the record business, you know.
I mean, I've known this guy for years to show

(39:43):
up and uh pretty soon, man, you know, he's like
I'm in the mail room at you know. And then
he got a gig and he was like a VP
of A and R Epic and we were at our
wits end. I went time manager at Michelle's Aaron I said,
I want you to call this guy and tell him,
you know, if you don't do something, his favorite band
is gonna be gone. And she called him up and
he had just gotten sober. He had about two and

(40:06):
a half years, I think, and I had just gotten
sober and Doc had just gotten sober. And he found
that out and He called me up and he goes, uh, hey,
so here we're in the same club, you know, yeah,
And he goes, uh, you guys got any songs? I go, yeah,
we always have songs. He goes, yeah, can you give
me something? I'm going on vacation. I go yeah, And

(40:27):
I sent him a cassette and he went down on
the Virgin Islands. He came because you know what, I
like this. He goes, But I can't sign you, dude.
I can sign you anytime I want, but I can't
do it unless I know I got the whole company
behind it. He goes, so, I want you to take
a gig for seven nights in Manhattan. So we did
the bottom line seven nights, two shows a night. And
he sent out a memo throughout the record company. Ten

(40:51):
reasons why he should never sign a band like Tower
of Power. You know, there are a bunch of dinosaurs,
there are a bunch of drug addicts, They're too old,
their style of music will never be popular again. Ten
reasons right. He sends this out and the next day
sends out another one, and he rebuts all those reasons,
and then he starts bringing east. He starts bringing people

(41:11):
down in fours and fives every night, four or five
people from the company. He's just like rallying the company.
And then he calls me on Sunday and he says,
get the guys together for lunch. We're going out for
a big celebration. You what's that? He goes, I'm signing
you guys the seven album deal. And he signed this,
God bless him. And then what happened. What we did
a first record. You know, we hadn't done a record

(41:32):
in years. We did Monster on the Leash for him
and sold well, and you know, things are started to
go good and continue to go better and better. Okay,
so let's go back to the beginning. You originally from Detroit. Yeah,
until I was eleven. Okay, you're in Detroit. We're in
Detroit because Detroit has the rich suburbs, the poor suburbs,
the inner city. Yeah, I was not in the rich suburbs.

(41:55):
Where were you My dad? You know, Uh, it was
a bartender and I was on Evergreen Road between Joy
Road and West Chicago in the city, you know, not
in When I was a little kid, we lived in
the ghetto, in the projects, and uh moved to fourteen
Street right down from what was the twenty Grand Club
and uh, and then we were out there on Evergreen,

(42:16):
but it was just a lower middle class. Your father,
where did he come from? He's born in Laredo, Texas,
but he had moved to Detroit. You know a lot
of Mexican people moved to Detroit during the war. What
was the motivation jobs? Yeah, and so you know, culinary
industry was big Mexican guys coming up there being bus boys, waiters, bartenders.

(42:40):
He became a bartender. It's a lot of nightlife in
my family. Yeah, I can hear that. What about your mother?
My mother was Greek. He met her in Detroit, you know,
and uh, she was a very flamboyant personality. They both
had a great sensitive humor. They both loved music. There
weren't musicians, but I loved music. My mother could play

(43:01):
a little piano and sing. But you know that. Did
they stay together? No, they they stayed together a long time.
They divorced in the early nineties. Okay, how old were there?
How were you when they divorced? I was forty three.
What do you think about them getting divorced at that age? Well,
I was getting a divorce at the same time. So
it was kind of like we could sympathize with each other.

(43:22):
You know, it's always funny when people are together that long.
Did they every each of them find somebody new? They
both did. Yeah, my dad found a couple of new
my my mother found a wonderful Yugoslavian man, and uh, Evan,
we loved him. We loved him. And then uh, she
died in the mid two thousand's and he died about

(43:43):
seven years later. Okay, so you're growing up in Detroit.
What year were you were born? Again? Okay, so are
you know Detroit? Obviously the home of Motown was there?
That was like, okay, were listening to the radio up
to the age of level Yeah, yeah, no, my my parents,
you know, the high Fi came out whenever the kid.
My parents played music all the time, The Platters, Bill

(44:05):
Dog At, Elvis Presley, the Ink Spots, Mills Brothers. You know,
they loved music. They're always playing records, Mario Lanza and
k Starred. You know, we had lots of albums and
they were always playing. Okay, and then, uh, at what
point do you pick up an instrument? Well, what happens
is we moved to the Bay Area. Okay, a little bit,

(44:26):
a little why my dad lost his job, and he
figured he could be broke over there just as well
as in Detroit. You know, anybody in the baynew one guy,
the guy that mentored him as a bar tender. We
called him Uncle Jack McCarthy. And Jack was always telling
my dad, who was also Jack, you know, Jack, you
need to come out to the Bay Area, man, this
is where it's happening. So he took us all out

(44:47):
to the Bay Area, and Uh, I missed my friends.
I'm a little kid. I missed my friends. So my
friend was the radio. I'm listening to k w B
and k f R C and k A A and
Rest of the Moose, Syracuse and Tom downa Hue and
all that stuff. And uh, I loved listening to songs,
you know. And that's when you know stuff by you know,

(45:07):
all the all those Goffin and King songs. You know
the Orleans and you know the Drifters, and you know
all that. I loved it and write about. Then I
started playing motown music and I'm missing my friends, you know,
And then uh, you know, we become teenagers. I'm fourteen,
and uh, we're going to the pool at summertime Fremont, California.

(45:30):
We lived in San Francisco for three months and then
my parents bought a house in the suburbs by this house.
Did your mother work outside the home? Yeah, she would,
you know, waitress, she would be a medical assistant, dental assistant.
You know. My mom was always like, there was never
enough money for mom. You know, it was, uh, no matter.
We had everything we could ever want it, but she

(45:52):
was always unhappy about that. And well what she was
bad at your father didn't make a better living. I guess,
you know what I guess. The point I'm trying to
make is that they always ran away from their finances.
So that's what they did. When they left Detroit, they
had bills. You know, back then you could leave right
right was the computerized. So they just moved over there
and all those bills went away. And then you know,

(46:13):
we established a life in the Bay Area and they
got really badly in debt and they moved back to Detroit.
You know that was like d m oh. You know
I didn't know this as a kid, an at How
how long did they stay in the Bay Area before
they went And we got there in sixty two and
they left in uh late and one day, you know,

(46:37):
and by now I got the band right, And one
day my mother says, you know, we're moving to Detroit.
What we're moving to Detroit? You know, she's upset because
the bills and everything, you know, And I go, what
do you mean we're moving to I had the band,
and my dad knew how important the band was to me,
and he says, he comes to me and he says, uh,

(47:00):
I'm gonna let you and your brother stay out here,
and I'm gonna give you one year because if you
don't make it within one year, you have to come
back to try and be with me and your mother.
And that was the deal. We were. You still in
high school. I just graduated. Okay, So back to you're
in the Bay Area, you're in Fremont. At what point

(47:20):
do you start playing an instrument? Like I said, I'm
fourteen years old and we're gonna go to the swimming
bool at the local high school and we have this
great idea. You know, these uh all the boys IrH
are wearing these um tight muscleman T shirts. They call
them muscleman T shirts. So they were like pastel colors,
you know, Apricot and turquoise high neck collars fit tight

(47:42):
on you. And we had this really great idea. We'll
go into Mervyn's and we'll put on three of those
T shirts and put our shirt over it and walk out.
And we walked out and the manager's waiting and my
dad takes me to uh he comes against me, and
then he he gives me a notebook. He says, feel,
this is why you're never going to steal again. He

(48:02):
took me to apologize to the story manager and then
he says, and think of something that's going to keep
you out of trouble, or you're never coming out of
that room again. All summer and uh, the Beatles had
just come out, and we said we want to play
music Dad, because my friend had just got a guitar
when he was on vacation in Mexico, Jody Jody Lopez,
my first guitar player. And uh, he took us where

(48:23):
he used to get in the car. He goes. He
took us to Allegro Music and Fremont. He points at
the wall because all the instruments were hanging out in
the wall. Is anything you want? And uh, my dad
used to work in these show bars like uh, he
worked at this hotel in palab Alto called The Companion,
which was like a small Caesar's palace owned by Terry Melcher,

(48:45):
days boy and producer. Yeah, so they have these show
bands are like the Big Beats and the swingdon Lads
and and these bands had horns and they were cool
and just really cool. And we would go there to
pick up my dad and I'd seen these bands rehearsing
there and checking them out. And to me, the sax
player was always the coolest guy, so I pointed the saxophone.

(49:09):
My brother always said the drummer was the coolest guy,
so he points at the drums. I remember we came
home that day and the guitar player, Jody, he knew
the beginning to Pretty Woman by Roy Orbison, and he
starts going dune dun dune, dune dune, and my brothers going,
you know, and he's gonna done done done, no, no,

(49:29):
no none, and that's all he knew. And I'm squeaking
on the saxophone and my mom walks in and she
says they're gonna be huge stars. And then uh she
became our manager her and eventually we got Rocko on
the band. Although his name was Frank Houghton back then. Okay,
but how did you learn how to play? My dad

(49:50):
got us all these teachers. You know. Uh, I wanted
to play a sax. He got me a sax teacher.
So I started to learning how to play sacks. But
I got bored with that. The cool guys and all
those dish bands played the organs. He said, I want
to organ. He got me a far Fista organ. But
then it was the really cool organ was the box.
He got me the box. You know. Then I wanted
to play guitar, and it got me one of those

(50:11):
box cheerdrop guitars. And you know, I'm learning. I would
go tell these teachers what I want to learn. I
want to learn how to play the chords on the guitar.
I don't want to learn how to solo, and you know,
and and I want to learn how to play chords
and and figure out songs. I wanted to figure out
the chords to my favorite records. Of course, that's what
we did. So my dad went to one of these
musicians at his job and he said, you know, my

(50:33):
son is obsessed with music, and you know, I've gotten
him a sack teacher. And guitar teacher, an organ teacher,
and he goes, what else can I do for him?
And the guy goes, get him a theory teacher, and
he says, you know what's that he is? Just just
do it. He goes, I know a guy, and he
sends me to Norman Bates, who was the bass player

(50:54):
for Dave Brubeck and then he owned a hotel. Yeah,
he was at ABC Music and Berlin Game. And I
would go there once a week and give me ear
training and interval training, and he taught me about chords
and about numbers. And I used to go there and
used to think, what is this doing for me? I
did not get it, you know. But every day I'd
go back to the garage and I'd be trying to

(51:16):
figure out the chords and the parts to all my
favorite records, you know, so I could teach the band.
And Uh, one day it just all fell into place.
It's like, oh, it's all math, it's all numbers. And
I was always good math, you know. And the other
thing my dad did was he got a guy named
Terry Saunders, a phenomenal guitar player. He just died last year.

(51:38):
He got him to come in and teach the band
once a week as a band. Right, that's amazing. I
don't know anybody else snore. He come in and he say,
you know what song you want to learn? You know,
blah blah blah, and he's satisfaction, you know, and he
and he made us each player instruments. I remember one
really cool thing he did. You know. We had high

(52:00):
Frank Houghton, who later became Rocko Pressti Bayer, probably the
most famous guy ever in our being it, you know,
and uh, he looked at each of us, he goes,
play your instrument. You on guitar. Jody plays the guitar,
and he points out my brother to play your drums,
and each guy plays it. When he goes to Frank,
he says, play your guitar, and Rocco goes like this,

(52:23):
he couldn't play at all, you know, and he looks
at him. He says, you need to play the bass.
And we all go what's a bass and he says,
don't worry about it, you need one, And within two
weeks Frank was playing bass better than you know, seven
years on the guitar, you know, and became one of
the most famous bass players ever. But that teacher. I

(52:44):
used to watch him and he'd be teaching us all
these little parts, you know, and everybody we learned to
play these songs. Pretty soon we got to be a
good little band, you know, playing around the town. And okay,
a little bit slower. Obviously, since you jumped from instrum
into instrument, you had some sort of facility with this.
And yeah it's current jack of all trades, master of none, no, no,

(53:06):
But what I mean is, you know, back in the
air of the Beatles. I certainly took piano lessons before that,
but it became clear as we tried to form bands,
some people, it was there were naturals and other people
were not. Okay, so obviously you must have had some
natural effaci and my dad made me be the leader.
He saw that, okay, and he didn't see it in

(53:28):
my brother j Okay, from the moment you got the saxophone,
did you ever say, because you know, especially today, people
buy their kids guitars. They played for a month, that's it. Okay,
did you ever look back? Did you ever look you
get the saxes and not really sure maybe I'd get
the right instrument or whatever, or from the moment you
got it. You were into it. So here's the thing.

(53:50):
It's not the sacks, it's not the guitar, it's not
the organ, it's the band. That's my instrument. That's what
I do. And I realized this now. At the time,
I didn't, but that was always my passion. I got
tired of the sacks, and I got tired of the organ,
and I got tired of the guitar, but I would
go back and I go whatever the band needed. That's

(54:11):
what I did, and my my deal became. I was
the facilitator of the musicians in the band. I'd say,
I tell my brother. My brother wasn't a really great drummer,
but he practiced incessantly right, And I would tell him,
I want to make this beat like a percolator beat.
Remember the coffee commercial. Of course, I said, we're gonna
make a beat like that. Do you know nobody was

(54:35):
doing that? You know, that's why I wanted to do it.
You know. I teach him that beat. No, no, you're
based on doogle doogle bab boom, you know. And he
learned this beat and then we do nine nine and
a half. I Wilson Pigott, and I tell Frank, you know,
go like this, Boogo, Google Goo Google. And I showed
Jody on the guitar and show him much because I
could play these things, you know. And that's what Doc

(54:56):
noticed about what I did. He says, you know, what
you're doing with these songs amazing, But why aren't we
writing our own? That's how probably never would have come
to my mind. Okay, just going back, but when a
little kid, you're not that little, you're fourteen, gets ah soxophone.
Saxophone is not that easy to play, okay. So, but

(55:16):
you were determined and you never looked back. I wanted
to play it in the band, okay. So you have
the front and playing the guitar, yeah, okay, and you
got the sacks. Your brother got the drums. So first
the band was the three of you. You know. The
point is it was a band first, and then we

(55:36):
learned to so okay. But when it was a band,
when the guy was coming teaching the parts, how many
people were in the band. There was five? Okay. How
long after you started in the garage did you play
outside the garage? Oh? That's you know. Soon, I mean
we we we started playing far sooner than we should

(55:58):
have people do. Yeah. I mean we just got out
there and started playing. You know what kind of gigs
in the park, you know, at the school. Whatever. My
mother could, uh you could dig up her. My mother
and Frank's mother became the managers. Okay. And how many
of these gigs need you get paid for? We were
It wasn't about money. But were you getting paid or

(56:19):
was it always for free? It wasn't always for free? Okay,
So Needles just say, this is the era of the Beatles.
What do we know about the Beatles? They were internationally famous,
they got all the girls, and they were rich. Okay,
you're starting the band other than loving the music, do
you say, hey, I want to be famous, I want
to be rich. I want to use this as a

(56:41):
way to integrate myself. And I would say the most
important out of those three would be the girls. Fourteen
years old? That's why do you want to be in
the band? Because you're cool? You know, That's that's that's
the driving force. Okay. I got asked, did it work
for you? Yeah? It worked. I mean it worked better

(57:01):
than if I didn't have the band, you know, right? Okay,
how many times you've been married? Three times? Okay? Are
you married down? I just got married yet June. So, uh,
the band first year you're in the high school. So
the band starts when you're fourteen? Yeah, but not Tower
of Power guy, I realized, Okay, when does it become

(57:22):
the Motowns and Tower of Power? The Motowns when I
was almost actually when I was sixteen, and then uh,
I hired Doc when I was seventeen, and we changed
our name a few months after. He was in the band,
just before I was. And when when when you changed
the name of the band. How many people were in

(57:42):
the band? Uh? Nine or ten? You know. We had
a singer, Rufus Miller and he came in the band,
but then he left for like four months because the
Black Panthers were after him for a cocaine did he
just vanished? But then he came back. So he was
with us when we auditioned. Okay, so it was always
a big band. Was there a specific model? Did you

(58:04):
say I want to be like them? Yes? Who was
up the Spiders? You gotta tell me who that is? Nobody,
you don't know who they It was a local soul band.
They were a white soul band. They had a six
ft three inch black chick named Truny Johnson, who was
very good. But to be real honest, it was about
the band. And they had a white singer named Dennis Delacua.
He played organ and he had an alto sitting on

(58:26):
the organ, and in the middle of the song when
there was a horned soulely, he would stand up and
play alto with the trumpet and tentor. I had never
seen a band play soul music that tight and that soulful.
It moved me and from that moment the night I
saw them. How old were you then? I was sixteen?
And after that all other forms of music were out

(58:49):
there window only soul music. That was it. It wasn't
until I started writing songs with Doc and sort of
reopened my mind to other forms of music and listening
to writers and all that, but I got like blinders
on about soul music. I became a soul music fanatic,
and I wanted to be like the Spiders. Okay, did
you play like rock and roll before you saw the Spiders? Okay?

(59:13):
So this is my direction, you know somewhere in the city,
right right right, Okay, So now you have the band,
your parents announced they're escaping their bills, they're going back
to Detroit. Yes, you graduate from high school. How often
is what are you doing for money? How often is
a band working? And not very much? Not very much

(59:35):
at all. And uh, you know, I look back at
that time in my life and I wonder how we
even survived. My brother had this girlfriend named Kathy and
they're still married today, and uh, she would be with
us and she would bring us to Lasagnas a week,
big ones, and we tried to parse that out. And
you know, we had friends and uh, you know, we

(59:55):
could drink for free. We go down to the nightclub,
you know. And it wasn't that we couldn't I couldn't
go to the nightclub, but we couldn't play at the
nightclubs that we used to play because they had sent
out this memorandum to all the clubs and the be areas.
And you hire these kids again, you're losing your liquor license.
So you know, we're just starving. That's why I say,
by the time we did the film or audition, we're

(01:00:17):
on our woods end, you know. And I told the
guy there, look, nothing happens, I'm not coming back from Detroit.
Doc was devastated. Everybody was what was your living situation?
We we were renting a house and were the first
house we got when my parents left. We had this
old man and every time he came to click, then

(01:00:39):
we said, oh we have it, but you also okay boys,
And we were there for about four months and uh,
he never collected her rent. It was God send, you know.
And then then he kicked you out. No, no, the
septic thing broke and uh and we we got out
in the middle of the night and went and took
the money. We had the money to pay the rent.
We just hadn't paid him, and we took that. You

(01:01:01):
were never intending to pay him, probably not, you know,
trying to live, you know. Tother auser meanted it and
got two roommates. Okay. Did you ever have a day job?
All right, you know, not very much. I mean I
remember I worked when I was a kid, you know,
a drug store. Not very long, you know. And plus

(01:01:24):
when times we're really tough in the early eighties, I
remember I answered the phone for a plumber in Santa Monica. Wow. Yeah,
but I sat there and wrote songs and got high,
and uh answered the phone. He was a good guy.
Was that the only low point for you and Tower
of Power the early eighties or is there another time
where you were at wits end um that was the

(01:01:45):
lowest point, Yes, definitely, you know. And then but even then,
you know, I went for another what eight years drinking
and using it, you know, and then I really bottomed
out and got clean. As soon as I got clean,
everything started getting back. What was the motivation to get clean?
It I'll stop working, you know, I had good by

(01:02:06):
now I'm working with Hughey Lewis. I'm I'm making money, right,
I got money, and but I'm spending it all on
drugs and alcohol and I'm not getting loaded. I'm driving
on and I feel like I got withdrawals. But I
have drugs and me and stopped working. And yet even
though it stopped working, I wouldn't quit giving my money
to the guy, you know. And uh, and I just

(01:02:27):
wanted to quit, but I didn't think I could. And
I went into a hospital, not not for the treatment,
not for a a or nothing. I didn't go there
for that. I just thought I'm going to rest and uh,
maybe you know, they'll kick me out. And I'm sure
it was going to die. By the time I was
forty I was thirty seven, and I went in there
and uh, they did a lecture on the twelve steps,
and I realized there was a way to stop drinking

(01:02:49):
and using it and not be miserable a little bit slower.
What do you know, hospitals, they don't just let you
in for anything. There's a regular hospital rehab St. John's
in Santa Monica. Okay, so you went into it's a rehab.
It's a rehab. There's okay, there is, But I don't
know what rehab is. I have no idea what it is.
I saw. I say, I'd been hospitalized for pancreatitis like

(01:03:09):
thirteen times. I couldn't drink alcohol, you know, and so
I used a lot of drugs to keep away from it,
but I always went back to the alcohol. And so
just this vicious cycle in and out of hospitals, you know.
And so finally, you know, I get there and they say,
in order for us to let you into this facility,
you have to be in a wheelchair. I was like,
bring the wheelchair and I'm done, you know. And but

(01:03:32):
I had no hope. I just thought I was going
to rest for thirty days. And I went into this lecture.
You know, there were these girls, they were talking, they
were near me, they were going to you know, so
so it's not working a program. And if you don't
work a program there and they kick him out and
this guy he works a good program. And I remember
asking what's the program and they go, oh, you don't
get to find out because you're in detox. That made

(01:03:54):
me curious, you know. And the next morning I saw
like thirty of those people going into this room and
this guy, Joe Takamini, the doctor in Santa Monica, and
he gave a lecture on those steps and I realized, oh,
there's something you actually do so that you can stop
drinking and using and not be miserable and wanted it
and never drink again. Wow, never relapsed. And then today,

(01:04:19):
thirty two years today, literally today, I woke up this
morning thanking God. Okay, so you know, as part of
I'm not a twelve stepper, but I'm familiar with it
that you have to make amends and all that stuff.
Did you do that? And do you still go to meetings?
I was there this morning seven am. Really absolutely how
often do you go to a meeting? Wherever I can?

(01:04:41):
I like going? That's why I was gonna ask that
question next it and you love it because it Uh.
For one, I like the feeling I get when I
helped somebody, and when I share my recovery, you know,
I help people and people come to me. I sponsor guys.
It's just gets me out of myself. One of the
things I learned in recovery is that, you know, the

(01:05:03):
whole thing is getting out of self, you know. And
I'd like to tell you I'm not very self centered,
but that's a lie that I am, you know, And
so you know, I've learned how to deal with that
stuff in uh, in that recovery program. Okay, how did
you end up in Santa Monica? Because you know, you
all these stories happen in l A. And you've been

(01:05:24):
in northern but when do you move down south? I
was in the Bay Area, and you know, all that
stuff had happened with the warners and CBS and my
my career is falling apart and everything, and uh, I
was at the Record Plan in Saucelito, where I worked
for years making records, and I was friends with the owner,
Chris Stone. And Chris Stone, you know, then, how are you?

(01:05:44):
How are you doing? He says, hey, how's my favorite guy?
You know? And I'm on, you know, crying the blues,
and how a sudden he yells at me, and he says,
get out of those because you're one of the most
talented people I know. Get out of those Berkeley Hills
clouds and get in the business. Get out the businesses
in l A. I was stunned, man, stunned. You know,

(01:06:07):
you never yelled at me. And I went home and
you know, we're all strung out, and my wife's in
the bed, and I got in and go, we're moving
to l A. And she goes, what We're moving to
l A. And she goes, why would we do that?
I go because Chris Stones said so, and she okay.
You know, Chris told me, he said, when you come down,
you have free reign at the Record Plan twenty four

(01:06:28):
hours a day. And that's what I did. I came
down and I hung out at the Record Plan and
I tried to get sessions and I got a lot
of recording sessions. And but you don't live in l
A now, no, no, no. I left when the earthquake happened.
My wife. My wife was six months pregnant with their
first child, and next thing I knew, I was in Scottsdale.
I still haven't recovered from the earthquake. But uh, okay,

(01:06:52):
so your brother Jack, where's he today? He stopped being
a drummer, I presumed. Now he plays drums again. Now
he did for a lot long time he stopped. And
what did he end up doing for a living? He's
like a uh remember when when the millennium happened, you know,
in two thousand, you know, and everything was everyone was
afraid about what happened. Yeah, he was like head of

(01:07:13):
uh computer security worldwide for Cisco. Then you know, like
that's like a pretty good job. Oh yeah, he does good. Okay, okay,
you've been married three times? How many kids? Five? Five?
How what are the ages? Uh? Forty four and twenty?
And they all how many are still on the payroll?

(01:07:35):
I mean that you have to support them. Oh they're
all adults now, they all are, so they altered out.
You have good relationship with all of them? My three
young ones, I do not, although I love them with
all my heart. They stopped talking to me when their
mother decided she'd want to be married anymore. How long
ago was that? It's over three years? Now it's one
of the sorest parts of my life. Yeah, but you

(01:07:56):
know I have confidence that that's gonna come around. How
long were we with her? Twenty four years and she
decided to end it? So why are they mad at you?
You know, I can't really answer that because they don't
talk to me. Well, since we're having an honest conversation,
did you did she fire you because you behave badly? Um?

(01:08:20):
That's another sort of one that's unanswered Bush. You know,
she if you if you look at the paperwork and
says your reconcilable differences. Right. I actually took it to
the church. We became members of the church in two
thousand four, and you know, we were having problems and
we went there and did all this writ but she
just kept going further and further south. And then uh,

(01:08:40):
finally she and I thought, you know, we're Christians, she's
not going to divorce. We we got to work through this,
you know. But she wasn't able. She has she has
a lot of baggage to alcoholic baggage, baggage from an
alcoholic father and a lot of abuse there and uh,
she needed you know, what happened with us is that
she got overly upset with her kids, and one of

(01:09:02):
the best mothers you'll ever meet in your life. But
and this is my fault, is that I allowed that
to happen. I should have you know, she met all
my needs. She was a great wife, and uh, I
should have nurtured the marriage and and insisted, you know,
she tell me, you know, we're growing apart. You know,
I need to be wooed. And then I go, let's
go out, let's do something. Let's go and she well,

(01:09:24):
you know, I got this kid thing with the kids,
and you know, I mean, you know, we could take
the kids, and it was always the kids, the kids
and kids, you know, and I love my kids and
I love being with them, so I'm not confrontational, you know.
So I would just go okay, you know, and then
you know, we did grow apart, and pretty soon it
was too far apart to get back. Did she find
somebody new? No, I doubt you will. I wish you would. Okay,

(01:09:49):
So she's in Arizona and you're in Arizona, and I
just got married in June. Yes, I say, how did
you meet your present life? She's a member of my
home group. What my recovery group oh okay, So yeah,
I havn't own her for years. Okay, just to be clear,
I mean, you know, isn't there some kind of you know,
you can't meet somebody in recovery do They never would
date anyone and recovery ever ever, ever, they say, you're

(01:10:11):
fishing and polluted waters if you do that. So how
did you meet? Isn't she in the recovery group? You know?
No matter what I did, God kept putting her in
my life. And finally I just uh it was my
sponsor actually told me. He said, you know, did you
ever stop to think that maybe God wants you to
be with that lady? You know? And I was like,
I guess so, And now what is her What is

(01:10:33):
her rage relative to you? Just four years younger? She's sixty,
she have children, she has to and she has h
an interesting thing to her young daughter and her family
go speak to her either. So we both have that
in our lives that in the program people, you're going, okay,
how did you get into Christianity? My wife at the time,

(01:10:55):
I was already really into spirituality, you know, I mean,
and I had already started reading the Bible. I used
to read two pages a day for ten years, but
I really didn't want to hear about Jesus Christ. Did
not then I want to hang with people that talked
about Jesus Christ. Because there was a time in my
band when David Garibaldi was a Christian and he brought

(01:11:15):
in two other Christians in. We called him the God Squad.
And they're always pointing the finger. You need to quit
use those drugs, and you need to read the Bible.
And you know, alcoholics, they don't want to be pointed
at and talked down to. But I could always see
that it was working in his life. And so flash forward,
you know, eventually, in my studies of all different kinds

(01:11:38):
of you know, um, self help writers and spiritual I
read the Koran, I read the Course of Miracles, I
read the Bible, and then pretty soon I just settled
on the Bible. I felt like that was the truth,
and I would read the two pages a day. But
I'm not wanting to hear about Jesus. And guess what,
I didn't see him in there at all. You know, well,

(01:11:59):
you didn't want to you're about Jesus because because of
that situation with the Yeah, yeah, okay, so I thought
of Christians, as you know, do good heer finger pointers
because that was your experience. So do you believe in God? Now?
I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ. Yeah,
very very friendly. So and even though it's my ex

(01:12:20):
wife who you know, I got started right, Yeah, and
I haven't wavered in my faith at all. Okay, So
how did the money thing work? You know, there were
so many people in the band, so you know we're hippies.
Everything is equal. Okay, But did was there enough to
carry you through the whole time? God has always provided

(01:12:41):
for me. I don't know how, but yeah, okay, So
at age sixty nine, hypothetically you can't play music. Do
you have enough money to get you through? Or do
you have to work to pay the bills? I have
to work. I mean I probably have enough to get
me through. But you know, people tell me when you're
gonna retaried. No retirement of the Bible, that's a handmade thing.

(01:13:02):
There's no retirement of the music business. My role models
BB King, I'm gonna bob till a drop. Okay. So
what's the status of the band today. Well, we uh
healthier than ever, playing better than ever. We put out
a fifty year celebration record UH in June of eighteen,
Soul Side of Town. And when we made that record,

(01:13:24):
we actually recorded two albums with the material. So today
we have our new record coming out March twenty. It's
called Step Up on mac Avenue Records. And then UH
we recorded Are. We did a concert in Oakland at
the Fox Theater and we had all these old members
of the band Colm, we had extra background vocalists and
ten strings and just phenomenal gig. We filmed two nights

(01:13:47):
and UH filmed it an HD. And so that's why
I'm in town. I'm mixing UH that live recording. And
what's the plan for it? Fifty year DVD documentary on
Tower of Power? Okay, and you'll sell it to Netflix,
Showtime somebody. That's the plan. Okay. How often does the
band work? Two hundred days a year? We're out, But

(01:14:09):
that's not all gigs. That's travel days and off days
as well, so many gigs. I don't know, and Doc
knows all that stuff, but I would say anywhere from
But who books it? Now? We're with Paradigm. I had
an agent for years that I actually put him in
the business, Guy Richard he was with a p A

(01:14:31):
funny was just talking about the kids. The name came
up last night, guys, funny. Yeah, I was out with
some agents. Guy who works at a PA. He was tired.
He had a health scare, right, he's saying, because that's
how it came up, because he's we tired and said,
you know, I want you to take over these acts. Okay,
guys are great, great guy, How how did you put
him in the business because we were having a hard time.

(01:14:53):
We had a guy named Peter Shils. Do you remember
Peter Shields and William Morris. We were with William Morris,
guy named Peter Shil's biggest agent there and he handled us.
But when things started to go south, you know, we
needed gigs and he wasn't getting them and he's going, well,
you know, uh what was he was just waiting answering
the phone because he had George Benson and Bill Cosby
and there's a lot of cocaine going on at William Morrison.

(01:15:15):
Then there was a big bust. But before the bus happened,
we went to Peter. We said, look, man, you know,
we gotta do something. And Doc had started a little
sideband and guy had booked him in San Diego at
San Diego State and he was like in the entertainment
banking part there and he wound up working and William
Morrison the Fair Department. And Doc said, I know this

(01:15:37):
Mexican guy, Guy Richard, and he's at William Morris and
he loves the band and he's a go getter. And
so we went to Peter Shields and we said, you
got a guy here named Guy Richard and he will
get us gigs. And he goes, who go Guy Richard.
He picks up the phone, he goes, he goes, where's
he got to go to the Fair Department. You got
a guy down there named Guy Richard? He go send

(01:15:59):
him up. He's working for me. And so he comes
up and he's Peter's assistant. And within two weeks Peter
calls me and he says, uh, man, I gotta thank
you man for what He goes, This guy is phenomenal.
He goes, He's changed my whole office. Man, he's phenomenal.
I love him, you know, a great make sure we
get some gigs, you know, and pretty soon we're getting

(01:16:21):
more geese because guys making it happen, you know. And
then the Big bust happened over there for all the
cocaine and Peter Shields went down and Guy got his gig. Okay,
so since Guy retired, who's your guy now? Now? We
went over to Paradigm Gary Buck in Chicago and ron
Kaplan here and we just signed with them. Okay. So

(01:16:42):
are these all hard ticket or soft ticket dates? I
don't know, man, and I don't think about that stuff. Okay,
but are your hard tickets? Are you playing fairs or
is there some are people paying just to see you?
We're not doing that many fairs anyway. We were, we've
been doing them, and Paradigm is changing all that, you know,
we're doing like we we just started. We got four

(01:17:04):
dates with a string cheese incident. I actually had to
know them and Madison House the managers. That's something I know.
I hear that they play some of our songs and
they're saying they're fans of the band Game. I've seen them,
but you know, it's one of these Gamans. They play
something different every night, so maybe they do. Yeah, I
don't know. I don't know them, but you know, we're
doing red Rocks with them, and really so yeah, they're

(01:17:25):
they're cooking an up a step, you know. Okay, So
what kind of venues do you play when you headline
performance arts theaters? We play festivals, you know. We do
the North c Jazz Festival, Monto Jazz Festival. We go
over to Tokyo do Fuji Jazz, we do the Blue Notes,
We do everything. Okay, And you still like going on
the road. Yeah, and you know, depending on which day

(01:17:48):
you asked me, Yeah, you know, hig just got remarried.
So what's keeping you occupied other than the two pages
of the Bible when you're on the road. Well, I
mean more than that, but uh, I know how to
enjoy myself. That's not a problem. What do you know
how to do the road? Okay? What do you how
do you enjoy? I always get up. I study first

(01:18:08):
thing I do in the morning. I renew my mind.
Once I've done that, I know I can do the day.
Then I work out, go out and get a nice
meal and stand for sound check, go hang with my guys.
These are the funniest guys in the world. We laugh
a lot. And uh, and then I got friends all
over the place. I'm sure you do after all those
fifty years on the road. So this point in time.
The people in the band, how many people in the

(01:18:28):
band today? How long have those people been in the band? Well,
Doc's been in the band almost fifty two years. I'm
almost fifty two years. Garibaldi's he was out four times,
he came back. Doc was in and out once too, right, Yeah,
I fired him for a day here, Rocko, I fired
for eight years. But he's not with us no more.

(01:18:50):
I had to let him go, not let him. I
had to take him off the road. His health was
not good. But Garibaldi was out eighteen years. The last
time he was out, he came back. We think he's staying.
And uh, the other guys, you know, seventeen to twenty years.
We always laugh about it because you know these bands nowadays,
they last a year and a half, two years. You know,

(01:19:11):
our new guys are like seventeen eighty. But our singers, Uh,
he's in three years now. How did you find him?
Do you know Tony Coleman they call him TC. He
was a drummer for BB King for years. Yeah, he
called me up. I was looking for some singer and uh,
you know, checking out all those finalists on American Idol
and the Voice and calling all the runner ups and

(01:19:34):
calling the people I trust. And Tony called me up
and he says, hey, man, it's TC Goes. I heard
this singer in Memphis. He's like a little any whims.
You gotta check him out. Me me, you gotta check
him up. And I go, all right, man, send me
some links, send me his info. I'll get in touch.
And uh, he sent me some YouTube links of him.
Soulful had that he was imitating Bobby Womack not immediately

(01:19:56):
got my attention, and uh, it seemed like a nice guy.
Called him up and we decided to give him an audition.
We narrowed it down to three people and we told
him you got a fly to Vegas. We figured that's
the cheapest, easiest flight for people, and they showed up
and out of those three, we thought we'd take a
chance on him. Although I was concerned about his range
because we typically need a high singer just because the

(01:20:18):
band so powerful. You need somebody to soar over that,
you know. And he had a decent range, but not phenomenal.
But once he got in the band, his range like
expanded unbelievably. He's thirty five, okay, and was he professional
before he had a day job. No, no, he was well,
he was a barber, you know, just defeat his wife

(01:20:38):
and kids. But he was a singer. You know when
when Tony Coleman went to uh like BB King had
passed and Tony was in charge of going to the
different BB Kings and you know when they're opening the
new Baby Kings. He put together the best musicians in
town and you know, did a gig and so he
went there and he said, you know, who's the baddest
soul singer in town? And you know said Marcus. God,

(01:21:00):
That's how I met him. Okay, you know the world
has changed the relevant of the band. Let's just say,
you know, the Internet change things. And unlike in the seventies,
you had a major label deal, they would do marketing,
everybody would know who you were. The record may happen
or not. Now anybody puts out a record, it's especially
a band that has had previous success. It's hard to

(01:21:23):
reach the audience and uh, it's hard to get the
word out. Does that depress you No, because because my
my trust is not in the business or in my
music or you know, I know that God's going to
take care of me no matter what. I'm blessed with
a great life. I play great music that I love,

(01:21:45):
I play with great people that I love. They do
you know, I'm already overpaid, so you know, they can
take half of it away, and I'm you know, they
can take it all away. I know I'm gonna be Okay,
that's who I am, that's who I become. So I
don't think about that. I'm not depressed over the state
of the industry or what the industry thinks about me.
I'd love to be a big hit you know, I
to be. Sometimes I think maybe it's a blessing you're not,

(01:22:07):
you know, maybe they want you to be a reality
show or something. I don't want to do that kind
of crap, you know. I want to make great music
and and have a be a class act in the industry,
and so far I'm doing that. Okay. Any specific goals left, Um, yeah,
I want to push the envelope globally, you know. Uh.
I want to record with other artists. I'd love to
take Tower or Power and you know, do only so

(01:22:28):
much oil in the ground version with sting Right. He
told me one time that was one of his favorite songs.
I'd like to do that you know, there's things I'd
like to do. But as I say, overpaid already. Okay,
we've heard a lot about you. But talking a little
bit more about the business. With all this experience, what
lessons have you learned? Business was, well, I don't chase trends.

(01:22:53):
I stay true to myself, you know, on a musical level,
on a personal level, you know, uh honest. And I
tell the guys that I work with you and I said,
you know, live right, feel right. That's the short version.
If you're living right, you'll be feeling man. If you ain't,
you ain't gonna be feeling right. So I just try
to live a principal life. And you know, I let

(01:23:13):
the cars fall where they may. Do you have a manager,
now I do? He was living a management team. Now
we decided we we hired a manager. We hired Jonathan Wilson.
You know, I know him pretty well, good guy. You know,
fired him after two weeks because he booked a tour
that we just couldn't do. You know, we're like sixty
to seventy four years old, and uh he booked three weeks,

(01:23:34):
uh and didn't taking the consideration, you know, the parameters
that we need in order to continue doing what we're doing,
and we want to do it for a long time,
so we're not just gonna beat ourselves up, you know.
And when my business manager, Diane Ricchi, tried to explain
that to him, it took almost an hour, and then
he finally yelled at her and said, you're sh and

(01:23:54):
all over my Picasso. And uh. When she told me that, said,
what do you want to do about this? Yes, I
want to fire him, and I go, then you have
my permission to do so. Okay, So Jonathan Wilson the
last two weeks, then what happens? Well, then, Uh, my
tour manager who has been in the business for years,
Walter Verson. He used to be bodyguard for Freddie Mercury

(01:24:17):
back in the day, and I met him through Heart
when I used to work with Heart, and he's been
tour manager for Rio Speedwagon for years. He did a
lot of work in the management team for Phil Collins.
He's been around for years. He's been doing doing tour
managing for us for like the last couple of years now,
and then and loves us and wants to be our manager. Well,
I don't want to my manager, you know, I love him.

(01:24:38):
I think he's a smart guy, but I don't want
him to be my manager. But my my business manager, Diane,
who I trust, himplicitly says, uh, what do you want
to do now Jonathan's out? What are we gonna do?
You know? She says, we can make it for a
few months, no problem. We're doing pretty good. But Ron
Mesh our tour manager, and you know, the agent and
me and we're all checking in. We gotta go. But
it's a lot of work. And I go, I don't know,

(01:25:00):
what do you want to do? I have an idea,
but I don't think you're gonna like it. Okay, what's that?
She goes Walter Verson. I go, I don't want him
to be my manager. She was, no, how about we
put him on the team. And it's a team. I said, yeah,
I can try that. So that's what it is. So
it's all homming along. This has really been great talking

(01:25:21):
to you, Amelia. It's like we could go on forever.
I could see why you're successful, You're warm, you're endearing,
and you tell a good story. Well, thanks for doing this.
Until next time. This is Bob Left sets

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