Hanson

The "MMMBop" boys are all grown up with families and they're still making music and touring. This is what they're up to now.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Wefsets podcast. My
guests today are Isaac, Zach and Taylor Handsome, collectively known
as Handsome Gentlemen. You're leaving imminently for European tour. What
does Hansen mean? What kind of audience do you have
in Europe?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, first of all, great to be on the podcast
with you and.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
We, you know, very comparable around the world.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
You know, we play theaters some places, you know, big
amphitheaters and most places around here. Yeah, I mean, historically
it's about half of our audiences in the US, about
half of our audience outside the US. The lucky thing,
I mean, the gift a few bands have of having
sort of a breakout early that hits a lot more
places than your home. Yeah, but you got to work

(00:54):
at it if you want to continue to be able
to get to those places, you got to you know,
get yourself out there.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's always most impressive to me that the music speaks
to people who have no English language other than the music.
Of course, when you started with a song that is
no word, everybody it's.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
The same chip. Maybe maybe that's the initial secret languge. Yeah,
but this is mostly a Scandinavian tour. So it's kind
of fun because you know, your your blood goes back
to Scandinavia, so you.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Get to feel like you're going home.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
We're basically the way we've identified where you're basically Danish,
you know, not too far back.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, let's go back to something you said earlier. You
said you got to work it. Yes, what is working it?

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Entail?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, I mean so for for us, I mean for
the hands, hands and stories. We started very very young.
We were inspired by rock and roll, inspired by soul
music and records, and we thought, hey, we can do this.
You know these they're all teenagers, right, I mean, we
don't need to wait. So we we got lucky, got
turned down by everybody in the industry, finally got signed,
had this breakout success on our first record, which is
very very rare, but pretty quickly we just we knew

(02:03):
that we were going to continue to have to really engage.
This wasn't about just hits. It was about community and
of a fan base. And so twenty years ago, on
our third record, we left and started on label to
build something that we knew, you know, it was more
about the just the sustainability of what what do you
want to do over the time. You can't have corporate
corporate earnings every quarter determine what kind of album you make.

(02:26):
And so working it means getting on the road. Working
means communicating online with our online fan club community. You know.
Working it means doing doing great work. I mean kind
of not sitting sitting back and just kind of going, hey,
this is going to keep coming to us.

Speaker 6 (02:41):
I would I would get a little bit more specific too,
and I would say that working it looks like in
twenty twenty two, you know, on that Red Green, Blue tour,
when we went out, you know, doing one hundred shows
in six months, you know, squeezing.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
All that in or around the five countries.

Speaker 6 (02:55):
Yeah, fifty shows outside the US, fifty shows in the US.
And starting off, like as Ta said, back to the
you know third record, when you know, when you're having
to prove yourself again to people and keep the career alive,
you say, well, it doesn't matter if people don't believe
it is, will play wherever we have to play. And
so you just go out and you say no, we're
going to let the music prove itself and we're going

(03:16):
to let the fans show up and luckily they've shown up,
and luckily, for the most part, the music is still
speaking to them.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
They're speaking more literally. I would say working it in
the song sense. Everybody's listened to a song and got
thirty or forty five seconds in and said you lost me, right,
I think as a band, as somebody going on stage,
as somebody meeting fans every night, working it means you're

(03:44):
forty five seconds in and you're still coming up with
new ways to connect people, new things to draw people.
And it's not I hope the intro works and the
rest will be.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Okay, Okay, let's start with the Scandinavian tour. Why Scandinavia
is opposed to any other place on the planet.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, honestly, most mostly we've been we spend a lot
more time in Latin America, a lot more time in Australia,
a lot more time into States, and we're we're responding
to specific interest at this point in our career where
we're you know.

Speaker 6 (04:16):
Just a promoter reached out and said, I've got a
group of shows, would you guys do it? And so
we're going out and doing it.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well, it's rare to get to do multiple concerts, you know,
in a community that's you know, smaller than you know,
it's it's about Oklahoma population. I think some of these
countries Doorway, it's you know, in Finland. But but it's
it's a you know, sometimes it's responding.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
It's looking at something and you say, what would it
mean if that was a new kind of home for us,
if that was a place where we could grow that
fan base. And so we're going to go be over there.
We're going to go put the time into these fans
and and build relationships and build experiences and see see
what happens.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, okay, so how many countries? How many dates?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Oh wow, Well.

Speaker 6 (05:01):
With this particular one, it's actually mostly in Norway.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, this is Finland and Norway. This this is sort
of an interesting tour. This is an off year, I
would say for us. By the end of the year,
we'll have done about forty shows in the US and
this is about twelve shows in.

Speaker 6 (05:21):
Norway that we'll do in Finland.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, in Finland. So it's it's an interesting year because
you have the album years and you have the non
album years, and how do you continue to tell stories,
connect with things from your past. You go like, we
are a band of a generation, a band of a
decade associated with nineties and two thousand, So how do
you sort of use those kind of connections but also

(05:45):
continue to invite people to new things. I would say
it's a typical I see typical.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
When you do our last full sort of real world tour,
it was twenty five countries, one hundred dates. Yeah, you know,
and it's probably you know again, Latin American fans amazing,
they have a reputation, but Australian fans and we've gotten
to spend a good amount of time in Europe. But
when you when you can reach new places, a lot
of times, you know, you're like I was saying, Isaac

(06:11):
was saying, you have to be strategic sometimes to say
we're going to play some places we haven't played as much,
so we can come back to those places.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
And that's the touring life, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay, let's just because this is happening, let's continue to
focus on Scandinavia. So in Norway, other than the dates themselves,
what promotion will you do?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Well?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
This is kind of an off cycle, so we mostly
in this particular case, we probably won't be doing an
extraordinary amount of promotion. A lot of it's social media
sharing and a global communication with fans. I mean, for instance,
let me.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Let me be very specific here, you're in Scandinavia. The
promoter reached out, we could go and play the twelve
odd dates, or will you say I want to do
an in store I want to do the rate you
I want to do all that other stuff, or is
showing up at the gig basically all.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
You're gonna do well normally, normally, this Bob, you got
us on this one. I mean, because it's not an
album year. This is not an in store kind of thing.
This is a see what happens, This is a you know,
we're we're really in the process. Probably next year or
the year after that will be the next really big
push for an album. And so now, honestly, it's more

(07:27):
like go to a fjord, get yourself inspired for what
you want to put into the next project, and and
plan for those next things. In any other year, it
would be you'd go, how many stores can we show up?
How many radio stations can we be in? I mean
every morning, if there's an opportunity, that's the way we

(07:49):
would be.

Speaker 6 (07:50):
Yeah, normally, you know, I will say specifically though, in
the fall, we've got this Underneath Experience tour. This starts
in September or actually beginning of October, and that's in
twelve cities across the US, and that's two cities or
two nights in every city, and it's an acoustic show
and an electric show. And that is for this new

(08:13):
project that we're putting out, which is a anniversary edition
of the album Underneath.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
The twenty record we put out first.

Speaker 6 (08:21):
Calling it Underneath Complete, and we've added, you know, a
bunch of demos and things that did not make the record,
demos of songs that didn't make the record. We've also
done a couple, yeah, a couple of new recordings. We've
got a recording of the song Pink Moon by Nick Drake,
and we have a new version of the first single
off of Underneath. It's a song called Pay and Me

(08:42):
and we call it the Moon that version because it's
it's kind of inspired by Pink Moon.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I wanted it just to pivot back to what you're
asking to kind of break down, because you you have,
you have been a voice of really digging into the
industry that we're in versus most places.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
We talked to.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
You know, it's journalists that are just trying to tell
any good tosty. We know, your your actual you know,
passion or communication about this world we live in, you know,
is oftentimes you know, discussing the stuff that might be
you know, not common to the average fan. But we
have historically been getting up early going to the radio station.
We've like a crew killer. Like the crews, they're like,

(09:18):
oh my god, what are you guys doing. You're doing
a show and a radio.

Speaker 6 (09:21):
It would not be on common historically for us to
let our crew sleep in and we're.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Gonna do a morning radio after a late night tour.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
And and the other thing too is the relationship with
the fans. One of things that we have today is
that we're really grateful for that. We've worked on targement
working is a fan club, a real, true engagement with
fans online, and starting back twenty years ago, we set
that up sort of before the world was waking up
to the reality that we're all living in of this

(09:48):
digital universe of community community. But we you know, the
meet and greet time with the fan before each show.
We select a specific fan before every show and sit
down and have an interview with them and those kinds
of things where you your day looks like frankly as
much communication and connection with the audience that's there and
to tell that story where every city you're.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
In as much as you can sweeze much as you
can squeeze in.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Okay, do you know how big the venues are in Norway?

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Well, these venues, these are festival gigs and they're all
they're about five or six thousand. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (10:25):
I think the one in Oslo is a little bigger
than that. It's more like twelve thousand something like that.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
But yeah, but yeah, okay, so this promoter reached out.
Let's talk about outside the US. Is that normally how
these tours come about for you guys?

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Not at all, No, I mean usually the way things
come about for us is really setting a course for
you know, your trajectory. I mean, like what we're doing
like an album, you know, here's an album and being
proactically engaged in how do we keep the communication and
the excitement going with our audience and you build a
relationship like you know, whether with spresureom for instance in Australia,

(11:02):
where you know you have an audience a couple of
years ago we did a symphony tour and this was like, okay,
here's a we need a story. You're always trying to
tell a story. I mean, this particular moment, this particular
tour is is a little bit less that way, but
the symphony tour is a great example. Okay, we know
we had an anniversary like in twenty seventeen that was
kind of a monumental like landmark for us. It's twenty

(11:22):
five years as a band, and so you're a couple
of years after that like, okay, so what's the next tour.
We don't want to just show up, So we for
years to want to do a symphony project, and we
spent two and a half.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Years building this show.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
And that was one of those things that Okay, now
we're going to go to different kinds of venues. We're
gonna go to seeded venues, and the seated venues was
you know, another way almost it's almost like turning the soil,
so to speak, because you know, hey, this may not
be the show that's packed in sweaty and a big
ga floor where there's a bunch of people jumping around,
but this might be a show that's a symphony show.
And now you're going to do two nights at Sydney

(11:56):
Opera House, which which was so we're playing the last
show that tour, or playing the Greek or in the
la or playing rooms that allow somebody to say, you
know what, I'm actually gonna bring my folks to this
show and my kids and we're gonna sit and take
in this different kind of a show. And in business wise,
you're also being like, hey, this is a higher ticket,
so this is not like the regular tour.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
So I think the because there's because you've got to
pay for it's a higher ticket.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
That's why people don't do symphony projects because they're expensive.
But so I think the answer would be you're always
trying to tell a story and you're building a relationship
with promoters and with partners. Because we started a label
twenty years ago, we have also had a network of
distributors or people that we have jvs withjoin ventures or
licensing agreements with labels, so we're also keeping our dynamic

(12:44):
with them.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Now we have.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Probably the most global net as one label that we've
ever had, which is our relationship with the Orchard and
utilizing their global system. But it's also so much different
than it was because there's almost no physical so you're
telling a story and you're trying to keep people engaged
and keep it interesting, and that's what drives the touring
cycle mostly.

Speaker 6 (13:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Okay, if you're going to be touring outside the United States,
do you have a foreign agent?

Speaker 6 (13:10):
Yeah, we have several agents around the world. We have
an agent that's primarily focused in the US, and then
we've got a few different agents around the world that
focus on regions like South America, Europe, and Asia.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, it's it's really just looking for the right relationships.
UK and most of x US has been under one
one umbrella.

Speaker 6 (13:35):
And origionally Agency Group now UTA Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, yeah, and again I mean relationships, you know, not
only with your fans, but with your partners is really
really key. Of course, you have people that have infrastructure
and different offerings. You know, when we started the label,
it was Ada was our distributor as a label, and we.

Speaker 6 (13:53):
Were kind of a long time.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
They were great, But you find that it's not only
what definite what the offering is. You know, a lot
of touring agency have a very similar set of skills.
You know, people that know how to book shows, they
take their percentage. They go out there and the canvas,
they get you a routing. But it's who understands and
who kind of joins you and saying, hey, this is
who we are, this is our audience.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Well, who wants to do the work work?

Speaker 6 (14:13):
Dave Dave Shapiro, who is over there at Soundtown on Agency.
He he he's been our agent for a very very
long time in the US as an example, and probably
our longest agent actually. Uh and so yeah, I mean
you you just continue to try and do the work
and to make sure that the relationship is productive and

(14:34):
and you know sometimes sometimes you know, things run their
course and sometimes things stay for a very long time.
You just you can't always predict that stuff.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
But you need, yeah, you need. A very few things
show up on your doorstep. I mean, here you are,
here's a million. You know, very few things do. And
while they do, you know, but you got to keep knocking.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
What about management? Management is looking at it right now.
You know, we've had several different managers over the years,
and I think it's what's most important. I think about
who your team is is that just like your band
is the same people, but they evolve and they acquire

(15:25):
new skills and acquire new needs. You may be with
someone that you like that is no longer the right person,
or you may no longer be the right leadership for
yourself anymore and need new ideas and need to bring
people in. So right now and for about what is
it seven? I mean our structure we have been self managed,

(15:51):
and so we make the choices, and we have people
who work for us who you you throw your ideas
at and you go what do you think you know?
And you get feedback like you might get from a manager.
But I would say we are painfully independent. Sometimes they're
on detriment and that's just become. I think the way

(16:15):
we've realized, at least for this moment, that was what
was going to keep us driving. We didn't want to
be fighting other people's ideas. We wanted to create a
ship and say everybody get on board that that is
into this idea that wants to go to this place.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
I think another way to talk about it, too, sorry
cut you off an is to say a lot of
times the systems, the way manage the way banns, you know,
architectures work is you have an artist and artists gets
an agent for touring and to get a label for
release is they get a manasure for general organizational management
and soliciting and helping them build a career. And then
you have publicity, and you have all these pieces and

(16:54):
they're all valuable, but they tend to the artist tends
to feel kind of like you're getting to be a
part of somebody else's infrastructure, which which makes sense, you know,
and a lot of cases artists really just they want
to go in the studio, write a song, submit it,
get somebody else's feedback. A lot ofis they're insecure generally naturally,
and so they don't want to carry the office and
the fulfillment for merchandising. And we've we have wonderful people

(17:17):
in our team, but it's not structured in the same
way the traditional management work. We have a great GM
that runs operations and she's a really big part of
a lot all the things we do. And we have
a great publicist, and we have a great label partner.
We have this it's a little more like an entrepreneurial
sort of This is our our sort of HQ. It's
all in sort of one umbrella. But it is interesting

(17:41):
because you know, it causes constantly you're you're having to
ask those questions. I mean, you're kind of always having
to ask who.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Else do we have? And what else do we need?

Speaker 2 (17:50):
And who else could be bringing things to the table,
because you know, that's the process of a career is
you know, is kind of how do you how do
you keep telling a story? Like back to touring thing?
How do you keep telling stories? Not just showing up
and doing the same rints and repeat?

Speaker 3 (18:03):
You know?

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Okay, how many people are permanently on the hands and payroll?

Speaker 3 (18:11):
I think it's ten? Yeah, it's about ten, and then
there are.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
That including the band.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
I guess it's not including.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Okay, So what are those ten people do? How did
the division? How does it work?

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Unfortunately, there's a lot more administration than you wish there was.
You kind of wish it was ten ten creative people
with cameras and videos. It's it's mostly admin. So within
the fan club there's two over there, Within the label

(18:46):
kind of marketing there's about three. There's several accountants for
you know, keeping taxes and budgets and and it kind
of goes like that.

Speaker 6 (18:59):
And then there's just mostly thesigning department.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
You're looking at the marketing department and the most of
the creative and then there's a great designer that does
a bunch of our design and content who still he's
the greatest designer ever. He's very he's very multi capable.
Is that a word? And you got interesting? But the
other thing is okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Okay, how did you find these people? And did they
all work in one location?

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Almost all are in in Oklahoma. You know the thing
about finding people, it's it's like putting together a band.
You can you can do it a lot of ways.
Several of them are family. So our dad was an accountant,
and so he very very quickly in our life, just
just took on that role. It's funny he was ready

(19:51):
to not do the other thing that wasn't that interesting.

Speaker 6 (19:53):
It's because of his art, is because of his it's
because of his frustrating artist sidety.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
He will be in a terrifying to be your kids
accountant and help them run their business and not.

Speaker 6 (20:02):
St well, I completely agree with that, but he's a
But our dad is a CPA.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
He's a certified public account He's always been in that
place for us. I would call him more of a
business manager than simply an accountant, just sort of somebody
there with no desire except for to help you be successful.
And so he's been at that role. Our sister at
fifteen was like, Hey, can I come on tour and

(20:26):
sell T shirts? And then it was about a year
later we're like, wow, you're still here. She's really good
at it. Helps run a huge part of the online community.

Speaker 6 (20:36):
She's not fifteen anymore. No.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
A lot of cases, it's people that you discover through
just we needed a tour manager, and then that person
we're like, we like you, you want to stick around,
You've got a desire to do more than that, and
so I've you know, I think the thing about finding
people is if you find good people, even good people

(21:02):
with the wrong job will make that job work. And
so it's it's more about just finding good people that
work well together, that you like being around. Uh and
talented people will will learn the new job or and
I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

Speaker 6 (21:19):
And crew is like that too, you know, like you
find groups of people that you can really get along
with well because you're on the submarine, as we jokingly
call the bus as the submarine for you know, weeks
and weeks on end sometimes months on and so Submarine.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yeah, I mean I think I think you know the
right when it comes to touring. You know the right
people oftentimes by the way they treat your equipment. Right.
So half the times when you bring on a new guy,
you go, who don't dinged up this guitar? What happened
to that case? And you see it's it's they don't. Well,

(21:57):
they're the accountant. That's the problem. Realize when they don't,
when they treat it like they won't be there tomorrow,
that's a sign that they don't want to be there tomorrow,
and so you're looking for that in people who wants
to be here. It's it's not a there's no guarantees

(22:17):
and truth be told, it's not a I wouldn't call
our business a growth business where people are coming in
going okay, where am I going to be in ten years?
What's the next position in the next pay grade? In
the back end. It's not corporate, it's not like that.
We always hope to grow, but it's more of a
relationship business, not surprisingly, more familial. It is something like, hey,

(22:41):
when you come in, we want to take care of you.
We want to you know, whenever we win. We want
you to win.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Okay, how much do you pay your father to be
the account.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
I think we have to probably probably draw the line
at actual, actual dollars shared in.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
The well do you pay him a?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Is he your only client? B? Do you pay him
a percentage? See? Do you pay him a salary?

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (23:08):
No, we pay him a salary? And sorry, is comparable
to ours?

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah? And it's it's always been, I mean a little less.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
But there again, when you own your business, you know
and the and part of the way we've designed the
structure of things again is to say, well, hey, we're
we know what labels do, and we know what artists do,
and can let's be as strategic about how when we
sell a record or sell a tour, we want that
we want to step back and be like, what's the
best way to use the success of that project. And
so you know, your team, you need, you need people

(23:36):
to feel you need you need a certain amount of
people that are going to come on and cycles. You know,
people that come on to help you do certain things.
But then you need your core team just to feel
safe and secure. And so salary's and benefits and the
things you do as a team as are important for
people to wake up.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
And we when we first got our first record deal,
and this is the late nineties, everything was about percentages.
Every but he wanted percentages, and everybody wanted you know,
suns antuity, perpetuity. Everyone's percentages and perpetuity.

Speaker 6 (24:11):
And we were allergic to those two piece stories to value.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
So, you know, when there was nothing that could be guaranteed,
we paid our data percentage because there was no label.
We weren't independent, we were signed to something. You know,
he quit his job to help us do our things
and go, here's a percentage. You're going to be treated
like a manager. But more and more, what we've tried
to do is move things away from that kind of

(24:40):
risk and that kind of relationship. We'd rather continue to
create the sense of we're all here earning today, working today.
As an artist, I think that's more important to think
about where you are than kind of what you have
in the bag. That's what keeps you hungry. And from

(25:00):
a business point of view, I think we can't take
as many risks when the percentages are all eaten up.
Oh there's that guy from twenty years ago that's still
making ten percent off of the thing well he earned
it in perpetuity. Well, you've got to find a way
to go like, hey, we can't one of the best
things down by those kind of risks because we continue

(25:21):
to have to earn it. It's there's no but this
isn't toilet paper selling one of the bestop don't just
buy it just because every day it happens. They you
have to keep engaging people. I'm just going to say.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
One of the best things about being able to have
that mindset is having assets, you know, being writers, being
creators that created it in the first place. And some
of the best counsel we got very early on was
things like, don't sell your publishing, you know, and and
even what is publishing?

Speaker 3 (25:46):
How does that work? You know?

Speaker 6 (25:47):
And thank you Bill Covin, Yeah, and thank you Jim Holming.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah exactly. They'll just pass and Jim are still going,
you know.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
And I think learning how to have assets that have
something to pay out over time. That isn't just I
showed up and I worked, but building you know that,
It's like having a good investment and something that's stock
or bond, it's it's out there doing its thing.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
At some level. It exists.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
You made it, so that that's allowed us to think
a little more about long term because you have a
song that is maybe going to be in a film,
maybe going to be played on the radio, maybe going
to be you know, out there, you know, find it's made,
maybe be covered by somebody. So and of course master
ownership as a label wants you own master's that's also huge.
But just that what Zach is talking about, having that

(26:31):
mindset of like what is going forward and what is
sustainable and resources, like that's a huge springboard.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
I think, Okay, do you have to work or is
there enough money been earned over time that you don't
have to work and you just love to work?

Speaker 6 (26:44):
The short answer is, the short answer is if you
stop working, you'll die. I mean meaning no matter what,
you should always be working because it keeps the joy.
I think going in a.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Lot of this is a brother This is where the
brothers probably have slightly different answers. The short answer is
we wouldn't have to work, yes, But the short answer
is also some of us couldn't stop working, right uh.
And I think, like for myself, I would probably if
we said okay, band's over, we're stopping, I mean I'd

(27:17):
be working tomorrow, but it'd be on some other thing
that just simply drove you. You couldn't sit down and
go I'm retired. I'm going to read books for the
rest or just mentor people. I'm like that I need
to physically mentally create something. But we it's been Our
career has been good to us. We've had the right people,

(27:38):
tell us good decisions. We haven't made as much money
as people probably think we have, but I think all
of us.

Speaker 6 (27:44):
We've tried to make because haven't always made it.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yes, we could, we could not work. We could not work.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Okay, let's go back to the big hit on Mercury A.
Are you still in a negative position or do you
get royalties from Mercy?

Speaker 3 (28:00):
We got royalties, yeah, thankfully, Yes, it is all recouped.
We had a big deficit because of the way our
relationship with Island Jeff Sham sort of dissolved, dissolved, but yeah,
we we are absolutely in the clear on that. Because
Mercury Records they spent so much money on our third album,

(28:21):
and to get out of that contract, we had to
essentially say, okay, well it was kind of a weird situation.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Wait, wait, you had to say okay, meaning.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
What meaning you let us go and we will let
those records, those first two records and the Christmas album
recoup that that huge deficit that you ran up against us.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
You remember how much that deficit was.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
We do, but we were not going to probably share
that exactly it was.

Speaker 6 (28:50):
It was several undred thousand dollars. Let's just put it
that way. I would but what I would put it,
but I want to put would put against that though,
is we did because of the pay or play clause.
There was a degree to which that also they kind
of owed us money as well. So it was kind
of a back and forth where we said, listen, we're
gonna let this be paid off by the royalties, but

(29:13):
you still owe us some cash because you stiffed us
on a bunch of things and we know it. And
so it was kind of like a wee, you lose
some kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
The biggest gift. Wha, wha, wha.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
What did they stiff you on?

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Well?

Speaker 6 (29:27):
Well, they they there were definitely yeah, oh man, I
mean there there were definitely some things that we probably
could have audited them for. Let's just put it that way,
because they were spending money, you know, recklessly and we
knew it. But then they also, you know, six weeks
into the release of the second record, we're like, yeah,

(29:48):
your career is over, and we're like, what's so it
was a it was a it was a contentious situation.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Frame framing the overall.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
So, you know, the culture that we left, one of
the reasons we chose to start a label is is
this culture of, uh, you're with a corporation, which you're
grateful that you have this big something behind you, which
is great, we've got a major leal, but now you're
with a corporation, it's not the corporation that signed you.
And so here's Hanson. We've sold millions of records, we

(30:17):
have fans all over the world. So were the kind
of a's like someone holds an asset, but they really
don't know what to do with it. And so the
culture that we were in was kind of chase you know,
the latest whatever the latest hit maker was, or that
in the writer or the producer and kind of without
really understanding what it is we're all trying to do
for a career, and we were watching the budgets go
up and up and up and up, and sort of
just like we're never going to recoup any of this stuff,

(30:37):
and you guys don't know why sort of what you're
leading us towards, and so that that decision back to
what we were talking about, is really just about I mean,
the dollars are all way more than they should be
in the major label world. They're just sort of spent rest,
especially then we're talking about early two thousands, but our
and late nineties, our decision was kind of predicated on
that base level thinking of we got to change the

(30:59):
way that is being considered everything is this like if
we just you know, we're just waiting on one hit
song or waiting on one particular like trend versus the
heroes of ours, which of course had pop hits, but
the heroes of ours as a career are Wow, here's
where's you know we want to one day you know,
fingers crossed only as as your your your icons. You know,

(31:21):
it's the people that have had careers like the Sprigstines,
like the Petties, like the U two's that have had
you know, journeys forward, many of which I mean billy
joels where you go look absolutely hit songs of course
critical big labels, but in the end, it's still a
it's a sense of a longer view of where you're
going and being able to take that risk with the

(31:42):
you know, joining the risk not being sort of just
you know, the ship is turning and you're just hoping
you don't tip over.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
So the so the challenges.

Speaker 6 (31:48):
Everything Taylor is saying is true, right, but there are
some other factors that you have to remember. So this
is so when we started our label three cGy Records
back in two thousand and three, two thousand and four,
we were coming out of a record label merger that
happened in nineteen ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
It was the largest corporate merger in musicustry.

Speaker 6 (32:07):
At that time. I'm getting to that, but but specifically
what happened was when we when that did second record
didn't go well because the label was not they they
saw a big like a big potential check, but they
didn't know what to do with it. But then you
come into that third record and they kind of they
kind of said your career is over. On at the

(32:29):
beginning of the second record, we're like, what the heck
are you talking about? And that's a whole other conversation
all together, but specifically in two thousand and one, two
thousand and two, two thousand and three, huge numbers of
friends of ours on a variety of different labels, but
specifically in that label group, we're all stuck in this

(32:51):
crazy scenario where they're making records multiple different times, like
the same record over and over and over again, or
different variations of the same record with different producers. I mean, like,
we know a couple of people that made like basically
the same record three times. Like, so this was the
scenario they were in where they were and we were

(33:11):
kind of faced in observing with a similar similar situation,
not the same we didn't fall into that particular trap,
but but a similar situation where labels were kind of
in a sense willing to spend a ton of money,
but they didn't seem to know where they wanted to
go with it. And so so that's why.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
And it's ultimately your money. It's ultimately your money. Specifically,
it's not a company.

Speaker 6 (33:33):
It's not a company, but it was specifically unique at
that time, there were a large number of people that
were going through that. That is particularly why we started
a label and said, listen, we don't want to get
stuck in a situation like that because, as the old
phrase says, necessity is the mother of invention. The necessity
for us was not getting stuck in a multi year

(33:57):
process where we couldn't put out music because our fans
are going, where the heck are you guys, Where the
heck are you guys? Where the heck are you guys,
And we're like, we're trapped. We can't get out, and
so we so, you know, and that's also why, that's
also why the unique scenario of our structure as a
band and the way that we have employees and don't

(34:18):
necessarily have management on a percentage in the traditional way,
is because again, you know, necessity has some other invention.
We've made some specific shifts feeling like we needed stability
and consistency because, not surprisingly, the last twenty five years
in the music business has been fairly tumultuous. You know,

(34:38):
there's been a lot of ti are you're talking about.
The artists that we admire and love had a much
more stable record label kind of business in the sense
that they were selling product, they were selling records, they
were selling CDs. It was a consistent kind of we're
selling a medium, you know, and then this these evolutions
in the last twenty years or so have been unique upending.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Okay, let's there's a lot of stuff here. Let's go
to the publishing for a minute. How do you split
up the publishing between us?

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Between the three of us, we made sort of a
plan early on that it really didn't matter who wrote
the songs if if it was being released under the
name Hansen, it was going to be a third to
third to third.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, okay, so it's a third to third to third.
You're gonna go on the road, You're gonna make a
certain amount of money. Is that money distributed? You basically say, okay,
here are the costs we pay off all the people
on the payroll. There's x amount each get a third
and you spend it, do whatever you want with it,
or do you keep a certain amount in the coffers?

(35:54):
And if you want money you have to ask your dad. Welcome,
I have money, and let's put it on the try.
Yeah I got it. The other person didn't.

Speaker 6 (36:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Our business is a little bit corporate in the maybe
unexpected sense. We pay ourselves a salary. So the band
we own what would be considered a touring company and
a merchandise company and a record label and a publishing company,
and those companies have a hierarchy of what they pay.
And then if we have good years, if we have

(36:25):
years we go, wow, we did really well above then
that gets into point where you do distributions. So really
mostly the income from touring, the income from things flow
into the companies. We set at the beginning of each
year what the salary is for the guys who are
running it, which would be us, and then if there

(36:45):
are wins, that becomes distributions, that becomes bonuses things like that.
That's a little bit, a little bit of a fusion.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Okay, if you live in a neighborhood, there might be
a guy who drives and asks and Martin. There another
guy might drive a twenty year old Prius h Do
you look at each other and say, well, man, he's
spending a lot, he's too tight and he needs to
spend more.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
It is.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
I don't even know if, because it is incredibly true
that despite growing up in the same bedroom, you know,
wearing oftentimes the same clothes, same brand, same everything, we
don't spend our money the same way. We don't value
the same kinds of things. And I think the best
example of that I would have is in recent history.
I just built a house that I've been wanting to

(37:33):
build for seventeen years, have been married almost twenty I've
been thinking about building this house for years and years.
And I built a house and Taylor bought a bus. Right,
they cost the same amount of money? Do they have
the same resale value? Do they have the same bill?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Zach's house actually wheels underneath his though it's weird.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
So he wants to go on an adventure, right, And
I want and build a sanctuary, right And and you
that's that's a hard thing because sometimes, you know, adventure
wants to do things that have more risk, and sanctuary
doesn't want to risk anything at all.

Speaker 6 (38:13):
And I, unfortunately spend money on convenience.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, I think, No, I think is the most whoa whoa.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Why did you buy a bus, Taylor?
And have you use the bus?

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah? Cautless, I bought Well, I have seven children, first
of all.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
And I mean there's in fact, it's a question of
why didn't we buy a bus twenty years ago?

Speaker 6 (38:33):
Actually because actually the Bay probably should have bought a
bus about twenty There's actually it's interesting I mean, we
spent in the whole treery industry.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
People LEAs buses, which makes sense because they're new and
they're up to date and stuff. But you know, there
are the rock guys, you know there there's country guys,
a lot of them as well. That too, were consistently
than at buying bus. I remember thinking, like they bought
the bus, why they're buy the bus particularly, I've really bought.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
It for my family.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Firstly, my wife and I always she's always enjoyed were
We feel like we sort of move best as a
unit when we're kind of a little more mobile. It
seems something about it just simplifies life a little bit.

Speaker 6 (39:04):
They both have itchy feet, that's the short answer.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
And and we have seven kids, so meet with tour, uh,
you know, being able to have them also at least
have the option to really be with and just kind
of a little bit more on our own sort of
you know itinerary so to speak.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
But but yeah, driven.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Actually the year that Zach started building his house is
just getting close to being done now, and that we
started I bought a bus.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
It is a good comparison.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
I drove the bus on the tour that we were doing,
so I would drive the bus, own bus driver. I
drove the bus, did the show, crashed for a few hours,
woke up and drove to the next city and loved it.

Speaker 6 (39:40):
Yeah. But and then you actually ended up saving the
tour because we had like the last bust in the
United States that I happened to have a bad axle.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
And right, Yeah, we had a bus accident.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
It's the only one have we There's never been another
actual bus accident. We had a truck hit our main
tour bus. And the thankfully just I mean just gift
from God that I was had a bus and that
we the last few shows. We in this particular case,
we're pulling all of our equipment in a large trailer
behind the main band bus and cooked it onto mine
and you guys hopped on planes. We finished the tour.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
But last week it's it's a yeah, it's a great
I love it. See.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Okay, let's go are you're going to say that.

Speaker 6 (40:21):
Year I bought a new Forerunner, Yeah, after having won
twenty years?

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Okay, Okay, let's go back to the management thing.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, there are different types of managers. There are managers
of focus on creative, managers of focus on touring other
people who were dreaming up new ideas.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, business.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
What roles do each of you play in the management operation?

Speaker 6 (40:53):
Well, first of all, give kudos to Rebecca Sarkar, who's
our GM. She does all the logistical things day in
and day as far as scheduling is concerned. You know
she's going to be the one that goes, hey, guys,
that's too much on the list. You guys know it. Right.
Of course, we're always tending to actually put too much
on the list anyway.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
So while we have very distinctly different personalities and needs
and it fits well with our instruments, I think, and
so I would describe it mostly that way. Taylor is
like pianos, like composers, trying to dream up the biggest
life changing thing possible, use all eighty eight keys. If

(41:31):
it's not scary, it's not that interesting. And so he
likes to go big. And and so Isaac I think
is best when he is playing the role that a
lead guitar should play, which is it's really the accompaniment.
It's the embellishment, right, And so it's not always this way,
but a lot of times it's a big Taylor idea,

(41:53):
and it's an Isaac going, oh, that's really cool. That
connects here, here, and here, and then I'm pretty much
the one going like, hey, guys, we are not going
to do that. That's expensive. That sounds way into.

Speaker 6 (42:07):
We've got to make it more efficient, like drilling down.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
That's an interesting description, Yeah, and I think there's a
lot a lot of truth to that. And I think
particularly we we found we found some really core business
that people know, but things like merchandising and fulfillment and
fan club you know, that's that's a whole world, you know,
and that's you know, Zach particularly has always been an artist,
so he's engaged. When you think about management, management is

(42:32):
usually takes on the kind of infrastructure that is sort
of the business, and a lot of artists don't carry
as much of their office, so to speak, their home office,
and so we we have some of the components of
the overall business. It's all in our roof, and so
there is a little bit of the bridge between that
creative the band's job and who the manager is off
and sort of grabbing and so our natural giftings kind

(42:54):
of you know, connect to those things.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
I think I think because of being the artist, a
lot of the creative stuff becomes assumed, becomes built in.
It's like these days you expect all cars to have
an automatic transmission and electric windows and an air conditioner.
Our creative process is not the same as the administrative process, right,

(43:20):
and so in that sense we almost I think there's
some flipping on its head.

Speaker 6 (43:26):
Ye.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
You know, Isaac as a creator when it comes to
the world, he's not having a good time unless he's
not thinking about the rules at all. He just wants
to feel it. And Taylor wants to get nitty gritty
and stop everything until everything is done and in its place.
I don't want to work on the next process because
the first when it comes to as an administrator, he goes,

(43:50):
it's not scary enough, it's not big enough. When it
comes to the creative process, he goes, I haven't finished
making it perfect and big. And I flipped to the
other side and go, man, you gotta be more scared.
You got to finish faster, you gotta go you gotta
be crazier, because it's sort of the other side of
that brain that that changes the way we work, and

(44:12):
it can be hard to bring both those things together.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yeah, I think he's in really super interesting articulation, and
I think again points to that being a band on
creatives and having these, you know, the management function within
your shop, the lines are a little different. I think
I'm the old than the typical I guess, or the
standard I think for our industry.

Speaker 6 (44:31):
Sorry, I think I'm the only one in the band
that particular has an interest in actually being an engineer,
like a recording engineer. Yeah, even though I think you
guys are all capable of it in some capacity or another.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
I think I'm always been a technical like you really
like to troubleshoot, I mean mixing engineering, recording like that's
I think it's really fun for me.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Okay, you guys finish each other sentences. I have two sisters.
We don't get along all the time. Doesn't mean we're
not fan we don't talk. Yeah, so am I seeing
the moment of harmony? Is it always like this or
you're arguing? You talking every day or you're not talk
for a month. What's going on between the three of you?

Speaker 2 (45:11):
I think it's a mix. I mean we have we
have some serious challenges. We have some deep conflicts of things,
you know, and I think as you got older too,
you know, you evolve, right, people have you start in
the same bedroom, in the same bunk beds, and you have.

Speaker 6 (45:23):
A lot less responsibilities.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
But I would say for me, there's a deep there's
a deep respect between us. Like I mean, even when
we really disagree and we we have some things that
we you know, like man, that's just not a priority
for me. We have a deep respect that has been
earned frankly over a lifetime, you know. And I like
to say that, you know, it's.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Like I can make fun of my brother, but you can't.
You know. It's that it's that spirit.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
It's that like you know, the like the group of whatever,
pick your ethnic core group of that came you know,
into New York City. It's like these are my you know,
these are my cousins, and these are my there's that hey,
this is my people, these are my you know, my family.
So there's a blood is thicker than water thing that
I think has been true. But we have very very
different I mean zachly describing the business side, I mean drummer,
keyboard player, guitarist as our primary there's that's kind of

(46:10):
that's kind of who we are, and even our personal
lives and our business lives and our music. I mean,
those relationships, those dynamics. You know, we do not agree
on a lot of things. But I think that's partly
why we can be somewhat of a unit, because we're
not actually a lot of times in the same lane.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
I mean, is that fair?

Speaker 6 (46:27):
Well, where it gets complicated is that Zach plays guitar
and keyboard too, and you play drums and keyboard and
guitar too.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
And you play keyboard.

Speaker 6 (46:35):
I played guitar, guitar most of the time, keyboards sometimes,
But I particularly would love to just engineer and mix
records and tell you guys what to do.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
So if they only listen to their big brother, if
they only listen to when we talk about our relationships, right,
the one relationship most people understand that is like this.
There are not many working relationships that last from your
youth to your old age. And we have the chance,
if we want to, to probably still be doing this

(47:05):
another thirty to forty years from now.

Speaker 6 (47:09):
Right, is terrifying.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Right if you look at a band like Three Dog Night, right,
those guys are you know, which we love and we
just saw that Danny is in his eighties and he's
still on stage, and you look at the Beach Boys,
and you know.

Speaker 6 (47:21):
Doc guys are in their eighties.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Doctor Love is in his eighties.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Even the Doobies who were just with Michael McDonald and
the Wonderful for such a great band in their seventies
and they're still killing.

Speaker 6 (47:29):
So man, they were so good.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
I think it's about the ability to communicate that really
makes the difference between the relationships that last and the
relationships that fail. And that's true of marriages, and that's
true of bands, that's true of business partners, and so
you I think for us though, we are very far
from perfect. Starting at a very young age, learning to

(47:52):
express your feelings, learning to write into a story that
is understandable, the thing you're going through, the way you
feel about that girl, the person you want to punch
in the face, whatever that feeling is, has been a
hugely beneficial thing to our relationship as as brothers. And
so sometimes the therapy session is taking place in the

(48:15):
interview right sometimes, And sometimes the therapy session is taking
place in the song that is on the record right Wow.
Sometimes that a song a couple of years ago that
I started called change right And at that moment, that
song was probably written directly directly to Isaac and Tailor like,

(48:36):
why don't you stop doing that stuff?

Speaker 2 (48:39):
I've been really seriously, please stop it.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
I would I would say it is the relationship with
brothers is easy when we are doing the things we
have trained ourselves to do so well, which is to
be on stage playing those roles, playing those songs. And
it's it's hard when it is just theoretical. It's hard

(49:05):
when it is not about the dream and the story
and it's just about people's perception and what we want
to get done. And that's not unique. We're brothers. We fight,
we have really hard times. My wife would say, I
don't know how you are capable of going to the

(49:26):
office and having a five hour argument and then going
back to the office the next day. How have you
not quit? And I go like, I just thought that
life was about struggling together. You know, life is so
often about struggling together. And that's written into our masochism,
that's written into our music, that's written into you know,

(49:49):
our beliefs in the world, like, struggle is not the enemy. Struggle,
the question is what you're struggling for?

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, okay, how long might it be till you speak
to one another or essentially connecting, you know, text message whatever,
every day.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I mean, it honestly depends on the season. I mean
there are times like because we work creatively, and a
lot of times there's seasons of tour where we're with
each other every day constantly. But I would say there's
there when there truly are breaks, you know, and we're
not in a big project. It could easily be a
week or so, as far as it unless it's the

(50:26):
requirement because we run a business.

Speaker 6 (50:28):
I think I actually texted you all week while you
were going with your family, not directly.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
It's a hard one to define. It's a hard one.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
There's a lot of there's a lot ofstical communications about
you know, by choice versus by responsibility.

Speaker 6 (50:41):
Okay, so by choice never by responsibility all the time.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Yeah, let me here. Here's here's the it's different entire Isaac.
Isaac had to confine me. I just moved. I spent
about two weeks moving from one house to a new house,
and Isaac had to call me like, dude, are you
moving all the furniture by yourself? I'm like, maybe, He's like,
are you not going to call me? I've got two

(51:07):
teenage sons that are six y three, that are strong,
like are you gonna am? I gonna find you underneath
an armoiir like like dead, like bro call me So
I think, I think it's different for each of us,
but we get such a saturation that I as a
general rule, it's it's hard to find the difference between

(51:27):
family and work. And it's been that way since I
was literally six years old. Right six years old, we
play our first concert as the Hanson Brothers, and that's
us just singing a cappella. And since that day we
have been called brothers by our family, the brothers. We
have a fourth brother. He's not included in the brothers.

(51:49):
There's an entity that is Hanson that exists within the family,
and then there is something else, and it's not always clear.
We don't.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Since it's a reminder, it's important to a reminder. We
also have wives and children and and talking about what
he's saying, like the difference, you know, hard to draw
a line. One of the things that I think in
a good way has amplified and also increases the gap
of Hey, I'm the challenge. You haven't heard from me
for a while. I wonder, well, you're literally you're the

(52:21):
dad of a whole crew. You're a dad of a crew,
and that keeping that sort of other sort of fiefdom alive.
In a band like this, which is so connected and
so you know, integrated, you have to sort of be
You really have to take you really have to seek
that time because there are there's so many blurry lines
like we even you know.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
The short answer is we have never gone had a
period without some show to do, some business, meaning to
have that was long enough to discover how long it
would be before we text each other. Right, There's never
been more than about maybe two weeks. In the last

(53:05):
there was a two years where there wasn't a band
thing to do.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Okay, let's let's switch gears a little bit, one by one, Isaac,
When did you meet your wife?

Speaker 6 (53:25):
So? I met my wife on September nineteenth, two thousand
and three, at the New Orleans House of Blues. She
was at one of our shows on our Underneath Acoustic tour. Right,
I think it's on Decatur Avenue over there. I love
New Orleans and anyway, she was there with two friends.

(53:47):
One of her friends is very tall. She's a little
an inch taller and has platinum blonde hair, and then
my wife has kind of brunette blonde hair and is
about an inch.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Sure, trying to paint a picture for the.

Speaker 6 (53:58):
Yeah, exactly. And so I just they were kind of
right about center in the in the crowd, and I
noticed her and couldn't stop staring at her. And I
think it was really awkward for her. According to her report.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
It was awkward for everyone.

Speaker 6 (54:15):
And and so yeah, I made sure she didn't leave.
I had to go to a great effort to get
to believe it or not, I had to go to
great effort to get her attention, because I think she
didn't want the attention.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
She's what exactly did you do and how did you connect?

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Oh? Well she was.

Speaker 6 (54:32):
So she's pretty much dead center in front of me
at this particular, you know, set of shows, because I
was in the center of the band set up. I
was in the center of the stage and the acoustic tour,
and so she was right in the center. She's probably
about five six people back, and I basically just sang
every single song straight at her.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Yeah, didn't you practically call security on her? No? No, no,
I did, I did.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
She was believe.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Somebody get the bouncer she's already asked, can't leave the show,
and you're gonna have to break your neck to get her?

Speaker 6 (55:04):
No, I I fold tilt, like, I threw a guitar
pick at her, hit her with it, and I was like, yeah,
you go over there, you know, And she was like huh.
And then she started to leave and I panicked, and
so I got one of the local security.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
People to go find you, go find her.

Speaker 6 (55:20):
I was like, see those two people the blonde plot
and blind must meet them. Yeah, and so I kind
of I'm a hopeless romantic and so uh and I
was clearly hopeless stoppless that night. But anyway, it worked out.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Which is so interesting because okay, who whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
You're obviously interested, You're smith, you have the security rainer in,
You're now face to face. Is she into you?

Speaker 6 (55:45):
She she is enough to stick around, you know. I
mean we spent all we spent like.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Calm down, slow down, and answered the question.

Speaker 6 (55:57):
Yes. I mean the short answer is yes. I mean yeah,
she she she'd take care of number.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Yeah, I gave her.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Okay, okay, but you're in a touring rock band. She
lives in New Orleans, how do you sustain the relationship
and keep it going to the point you get married?

Speaker 6 (56:15):
On the phone? Uh? And also I went to see her.
She's actually originally from Panama City, Florida.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Real quick, you just occurred to me, are you guys
feel recording visuals on your side? I just no, okay,
because he's read yeah, no, no.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
No, That's what the internet is for.

Speaker 6 (56:33):
So on the phone, you know, that's how you stay
in touch. And I went to see her several different times, uh,
right after we'd met. And then I, you know, I
brought her out to shows, you know, uh, in New York,
in Michigan, in different places, and you know, we'd stay
in touch. In fact, actually, at one point over the

(56:53):
course of a summer, she actually moved to Oklahoma for
like three months because we just hadn't been around each other,
and I was just like, well, we got to figure
out if this works, you know. Interestingly enough, I accidentally
broke up with her at.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
That particular, accidentally broke up with her. He's a mess.
I'm a mess.

Speaker 6 (57:10):
He's a mess. It's a wonder that.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
She Oh, since everybody's talking about what do you mean
you accidentally broke up?

Speaker 6 (57:17):
Well, I broke up with her a couple of times
over the course of that three year period before we
got married. Why because life is complicated and my wife
is an introvert and I'm a severe extrovert, and so
when we were on the phone together, it was it
was always a little bit harder on the phone, but

(57:39):
when she was with me, it was really easy and
it was really fun, and so it just the difference.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Was just really instance. I think you know exactly why
by your meeting of her in the first place, which
is she's standing in the center of the crowd. You
are beaming at her with laser eyes, and she's going,
who me, No, I'm not sure. This is a lot
of attention, This is a lot of energy, right, Yeah,

(58:07):
and yeah it works when it worked.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Oh okay, okay, what was she doing? How old were
you at the time? How old was she? And what
was she doing in Panama City?

Speaker 6 (58:16):
Okay? So yeah, So she and her friends had come
to New Orleans to see our show because her best
friend was a big Hanson fan, and so they decided
we're gonna have a girl's weekend and go to New Orleans.
She is nineteen, her other friends are nineteen, so they
go to the show and spent a few days in
Orleans and I was twenty two.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Yeah like that.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Yeah, I tell okay, you're the oldest brother.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
The band has this incredible success no one around the
world in a way that no one is today. Yeah,
to use the vernacular of rock and roll, did you
take advantage of this?

Speaker 6 (58:58):
Well, we would have killed him, They would have They
would have killed me. Yeah, No, I did not. I
did not take advantage of it. Uh. You know, I
have a really good relationship with my mom, and my
mom made it very clear that she did not want
her sons being reckless with their relationships and and with

(59:18):
with women. She would basically imply something to the effect of,
treat her like you would like you would treat me,
and or like you would treat your sisters and uh
and be respectful. So yeah, I was. I was respectful
of the uh of the distance that was necessary.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Okay, okay, how many children do you have now?

Speaker 6 (59:43):
My wife and have three kids. We have a seventeen
year old, a sixteen year old, and a ten year old.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
And what are they up to?

Speaker 3 (59:51):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (59:52):
Well, my oldest son, Everett really loves guitar. God bless him.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Poor guy.

Speaker 6 (01:00:00):
He plays very very well, and he does have he
does have a songwriting skill and his kind of honing
those skills. I think if he wants to put in
enough work to really do it, there is definitely a
chance that he could make a career in music if
he's willing to work hard enough. My other son, Monroe,

(01:00:20):
is sixteen years old, and he's again, both my sons
are about sixty three and big kid, very athletic. He
throws a baseball really hard. He throws like eighty two
eighty three miles an hour, you know, and he's and
he just turned sixteen, so yeah, yeah, and your daughter's
just and your third child, My third child is her

(01:00:44):
name is Odette, and she's ten, and she is a
major extrovert and just loves people and sings whenever she
wants to and is a lot of fun. But she's ten,
so you know, figure aspiration.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
It's so funny. We're not allowed to say she's just ten.
I mean, at ten years old, we had already been
doing the band for four years and and I mean
we almost had a record deal, we'd already had I think,
what she's got to pick this thing? You're speaking to
something that Everett says.

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
To me and goes, dad, do you have any idea
how much pressure it is to be your son at seventeen?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
That's okay, Let's let's switch to Taylor. Man, how did
you meet your wife?

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Well, you're gonna sense a theme. I met my wife
at a show as well, I guess technically, Well, so
she and her friend. Again, there's a pair they were
at We did a sohole series of promotion events to
our second tour, and we told a series of marketing
events with Macy's department stores, and her and her friend.
Her friend was a local model, and they were both

(01:01:47):
there and they we did a whole show like there's
a little local modeling show with our event we did,
and they came to the show, the actual concert we did.
They're from Atlanta that night?

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Was it that night? That sex day? Then the next
day and and this is two thousand, so I could.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Say I was sixteen, she was sixteen, and she was
you know, super super cute, and we met after the show,
and basically I was so uninterested in dating or frankly, again,
here we are with with with lots of female fans.
Of course, I mean we're that does not go by
missed by us, but in a way like now they

(01:02:28):
think about it, it's kind of wild. I We're just
still who we are, Like I was so focused on
what we were trying to do and like basically beating
the odds as a band. Like girls were, I mean beautiful. Frankly,
we've seen a lot of beautiful girls. Like That's one
of the great gifts of getting to do what we
do is yes, we've seen a lot of beautiful girls,
but no interest frankly really in you know, chasing and

(01:02:50):
particularly and this met my wife names Natalie and Starr
after the show, and she was just we just clicked immediately,
I mean almost too Like I couldn't even try and
you know, turn off the connection I had. It's like
when you meet somebody and you immediately feel like you
know them and you know and and we had the

(01:03:10):
craziest and most rock and roll thing that happened immediately
after the show. I can't still can't even believe this
was happening. So we played the Tabernacle Theater that night
in Atlanta, amazing theater. I love that place. And underneath
in the club below us was was Mick Taylor from
The Rolling Stones doing a solo show and somebody said, hey,
Mick Taylor for the Rolling Stones is downstairs plane.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
We're like what, and so we just we rocked down there.

Speaker 6 (01:03:35):
Most of the crew.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
It was like a like a weird almost famous situation,
like what is happening? So we immediately just we just clicked.
And I joked that she totally played me early on
because she was super super cute and and of course
I was really not frankly interested in girlfriends or relationships.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
It was like band, a band, band.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Or nothing, you know, And and she totally threw in.
She knew that we loved rock and roll, in classic
rock bands, and and she told me she like Steppin'
Wolf and she went down like the sixties bands.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
I was like, man, this girl's amazing. Who is it?
She's she's incredible. So we she'd done her homework.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
But you know, the thing is she she and I
I would really say, I am just so blown away
by like the life I've had now. You know, we
got married before I was twenty two and a half years.
You know, we were never together more than nine days
prior to getting married. We got decided we got married,
and the thing was we'd already lived so much life.

(01:04:33):
We dated remotely, just like Ike when he was talking
about you're living this remote life. You know, she's flying
back and forth. You're teenagers, and it's does it. There's
no comparison. I don't know anybody that I can even
talk to about the relationship dynamic we had because it's
so odd, but it worked because it for us, it
was like we immediately had this And I don't know

(01:04:54):
if proof for other things, but with Natalie and I,
we just really immediately sort of were in friends. It
was like you just kind of had a click and
you just rolled easily together. And here I am, you know,
twenty three years later with seven child.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
So you're you're you're married just before you're twenty years old?
How long until you have a kid.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Right out of the gate? And yeah, they're at that
age when everything works, you know, it just all works.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
You know, how many kids do you have?

Speaker 6 (01:05:21):
Have?

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Seven?

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Is there any reason you have seven as opposed to
two or eleven? Well?

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
You know, science mostly No, I don't didn't take biology
and homes you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
We just we always loved I would say this, Yes,
obviously we could have you know, could have not had
more children. We could have had one, two, three. You know,
obviously everybody knows how that works. But I think we
both found Natalie and I have both found that we
really liked that, We really enjoyed it more than either
one of us thought. She was one of those people

(01:05:55):
that I think thought she would be like super career,
like she's super nerdy, smart historian into that she likes,
she's bookish, you know, and me here I am we're
doing our thing working since I was nine.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
But we I think we both found we just really
liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
And my the accidental thing for me that that has
now occurred in a big way is I also realized
how much kind of the life we've led there's a
lot of connectivity to the chaos of big familydom.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
You know, it's this sort of.

Speaker 6 (01:06:22):
Well a big family.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
We're part of a big family.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
We're three of you know, with the three oldest of seven,
and so we just really started we enjoyed them and
we thought five five was like a real line in
the sand, like we were good. Five was an amazing group,
and it just it was like we both felt like
maybe there was a little more to this story, so
that the.

Speaker 6 (01:06:42):
Bigger kids as a surprise.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
It's less of a surprise. Actually, Okay, it really wasn't
it really was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
It was the least surprise actually, of the over the
kind of having kids was was number six.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
And I think, you know, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
I never would have sought thought if you go back
to me as a teenager or young you know, younger
than a teenager, even thinking oh yeah, I'm gonna have
seven kids.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
But it's a blast.

Speaker 6 (01:07:05):
I would have never thought you would.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Okay, it's a lot of fun. So you have seven kids?
What are their ages and what are they up to?

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Twenty one? My oldest is biggest passion is piano and music.
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
My second is she's kind of a curator. She's like,
she likes films, she likes fashion. She's you know right,
she's probably not college bound, it's just not her things.
She's kind of interned and worked on film and fashion
things and styled a little bit. She's into photography, so
she's our third is definitely a musician. He's a drummer

(01:07:40):
or just kind of one of those kids that just
picked stuff up and you go like, how did you
when did you learn to do susophone? Like that kind
of not actually susophone, but he's just one of those
people that is musical like that. Zach has one like
that that's just like figure stuff out. My fourth is
also super creative. I realized I was not saying names.
Ezra Penelope River is my three, and Vigo is our fourth.

(01:08:05):
He's fifteen and just got his drivers permit today and
super creative. Also always says I had a really pragmatic mind,
like very ambitious, like always had. I was watching a
video of him talking about building weather domes like when
he was thirteen, Like he's just interested in stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:08:22):
He's ambitious and analytical.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Yeah. And then my number five will Almina. We call
her Willa.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
She's always been sort of a drama queen, like in
the sense of liking drama, like acting comedy, like she's funny.
She puts on little shows and she's super good.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
She create drama in your house.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Yes to a degree, but she but she is actually
really creative. She she makes like puppet shows and writes
stories and always that's always been her.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Then Indiana is our number six. Now my wife jokes
that like I put it in order for him, like
I ordered him, like by mail. Because he's this, you know,
he just he's a high energy she too smart for
his own good, ready up, ready for anything, super extroverted.
And then our youngest, Willowmita is the golden child. Truly

(01:09:09):
is spoiled for life. She she is adored by everyone
to the point that like, man, you are so but
truly she is actually incredibly her middle name is joy
and she really is a like incredibly joyful human. I
don't think that's just for being a seven child, it's
just her personality. So yet to know because she's three.
You know, we'll see what she does. But so, yeah,

(01:09:31):
it's a big group of people, and we talk about
this because there's twenty five or six cousins between all
of us. Between all of us, it's amazing how you
can have the same you know, pair of parents in
these different clusters and you still have all these such
completely different kids, like they have their own Like how
did you get that combination?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
Like I'm not it still blows my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Okay, Zach, how'd you meet your wife?

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
As third? So in Taylor's story, there was a model
that brought his wife to our concert. My wife is
the model, so basically I met her then I was
about fourteen and I was dating another girl, but it
was immediately clear that I'm like, I just need to
know you. And about a year later we started dating,

(01:10:25):
and about six months later I knew I was going
to marry her. But at fifteen and a half, it's
usually frowned upon to get married. And so she was
in college, she finished her finest degree, went to school
just on scholarships and things, and so we said, hey,
you're just going to finish school. So at twenty we
got married.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
We are the she was also how old was she twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Two twenty when we got married, so two years a
little older, same age, went to high school with Taylor's wife.

Speaker 6 (01:10:56):
Actually interesting that all of our wives are basically exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
This tells me the maturity life all of the brothers exactly.
You know, we are probably like I said, like the most,
I don't want anything from my kids. I just want
him to love the act of caring for other people
and and find something that inspires them and makes them,

(01:11:20):
you know, have the opportunity to be with people. You
do want them to be respectful. That's difficult, That's what
I mean. And so we have we have five kids.
We've been married eighteen years and Shepherd is sixteen, and
I have no idea what he's going to do. What
I do know is he's probably a genius. I just

(01:11:44):
can't figure it out. He's incredibly kind. This dude. He's
just like when he gets into something, it is unbelievable
how much he knows about it.

Speaker 6 (01:11:53):
I wonder where he gets that from.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Yeah, Junior, our thirteen year old daughter is we finally
found an ath and the family. So she's way into athletics,
and you know, they're all just awesome. Abraham's are third.
He's the musician in the family. He ever decides he
wants to. It's interesting to see because I see a

(01:12:16):
very similar child to myself. You know, I never would
have been in a band if if these guys didn't
need help. That's sort of the story of the Hanson
brothers is is Isaac and Taylor were actively singing and
wanting to sing, and my mom came over and said, Zach,
your brothers need your help, and so I came to sing.

(01:12:36):
And he's sort of that way. Abraham is ten. He's
named after Aba Boreol Junior and Able Boreoal Senior. Two
amazing musicians we just love obviously the father of all
the religions, Abraham's interesting to look at a guy he's

(01:12:57):
about to turn eleven, and that's the age I was
when I really probably people knew the band Umbop came out.
I was eleven into twelve, And to look at him
and go like, you've got all of that stuff that
we were doing. I wonder when and what it will
take for you decide you want to do something with it,
because it's such a different thing. And then my younger two,

(01:13:19):
Lucille and Quincy, are named for another amazing musician, Quincy Jones.
You know, like who knows, they're just their kids. They're
seven and three and beautiful and full of their own
ideas and incredibly opinionated, just like their father. And I
apologize to their mother every day. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
Well, I will say also to your younger three are
definitely more extroverted than the older two.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
The older two are a little more.

Speaker 6 (01:13:48):
Shy and a little more to themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Not a surprise that the guy who spends his career
behind a cage is more introvertied and has more introverted children.
But I think you know, the main thing with all
of it is really provide them every opportunity possible and then,
if possible, teach them that life is not about getting
what you want, but about what you want to work for.

(01:14:12):
And you know that's really it, you know, I mean,
it's the best lives are lived in some service to something,
service to greater humanity, service to a greater craft, but
certainly not service to your own needs, to your own wants.
It's living for something bigger egos, a bit destructive. Yeah,

(01:14:34):
and that's what we're trying to do.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Okay, let's go back to the three of you. Tell
me about your education. Did you go to school, did
you graduate?

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
What happened? It's full of a lot of holes and
then a lot of specialization. That's what I would say.
We are in Oklahoma. I don't know if this is
still true. At the time, Oklahoma was the only state
or one of the only states that has homeschooling in
the state constitution, and so that's where we grew up.
And so home was a big deal a lot for
religious reasons, people who want to teach their kids the

(01:15:05):
way they see the world, but also in our case,
it really played a huge role in the freedom to
take time out of regular school days and spend that
doing things that wouldn't normally be allowed, like being in
dance class and music classes, playing concerts in the afternoon,
places where other kids were in school, practicing music. You know,

(01:15:30):
our parents very quickly said, like, this is part of
your education. They were fairly big into the arts. Our
mom was a vocal major in college, went with a
scholarship to North Texas State. So they loved plays, they
loved drama. Our dad took dance in college and then
decided to be instead of account and so it was

(01:15:51):
like they saw it as valuable that we would sing
and play. And well, if anyone who has multiple children
knows that if your kids are doing something together without fighting, right,
that's that's productive. You pretty much will move mountains just
to let them do that together. And so that's what's working.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
You definitely had some holes in our You guys stick more.
You know, we did more science than you did, a
lot more science.

Speaker 6 (01:16:18):
Science was almost non existent, certainly, plenty of literature, certainly,
plenty of history, certainly, plenty of art related kind of
going to the louver and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Once we broke especially, we were traveling.

Speaker 6 (01:16:31):
Well and again we were I was sixteen, so is
that couldn't even in high school yet, and we're going
doing those things, you know, And I would have been
I would have been a sophomore in high school when
the first record broke, so you know, you're doing our
mom was really good at shall we say, making school
lessons out of life experiences, so she would be the

(01:16:51):
one that would say, no, we got to take the weekend,
you know, or take a day off and take the
boys to this thing or that thing. They got to go,
you know, to a play, they got to go see
the louver. They gotta go see.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
But none of us have college degrees, and you know,
whatever high school is, you know, very.

Speaker 6 (01:17:09):
I think I think technically want to officially have a
high school diplomas.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
Because we were working so much. When I was about fifteen,
we realized that I could get emancipated and that would
allow me to work more than just short four to
six hour days on movie sets. It's more about that
supervised and and so you could actually work as an adult.
So at sixteen, I graduated from high school and was emancipated,

(01:17:38):
and so that was like a freedom suddenly. Education and
time with school teachers at the tonight show didn't have
You could choose to do what you want, and of course,
you know you're already at this point that would have
been working on our third album, not including Live Almos
none teen Christmas albums. You know, we toured all over
the world, and you kind of go, do you really

(01:18:00):
need to be going to school or are you already
in some weird form of business school because you're learning
your business that you already have a business you're running.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
I will say this though, I think one of the
things that I see a lot is so non traditional
in our education paths.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
So what do I know?

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
But it's just interesting because it seems like what happens
a lot of times with many school pathways is people
get told a curriculum and they finish the thing, and
they have a thing that they finished with it go,
I graduated X, Y, and Z. But learning to be
a learner is not necessarily something that happens, you know,
teaching keep training the idea of learning and so maybe

(01:18:39):
purposeful but also somewhat accidental. Probably in the path we've
led is that sense of creatively pursuing things, being curious
and having a mind that's interested in driving your own education.
Driving learning is something we we had by choice and
by I think the nature of our existence as a
touring band that broken traveled and and so that's interesting.

(01:19:02):
There was always an interest in reading, There was always
an interest in discovery. I mean it was never it
was never about you know, get this, you know qualification clearly,
but and I'm grateful for that. And that is something
that when you do see it in your kids, and
you don't always see it sometimes it's a real hard
thing to do. But when you do see those glimmers
of why you're interested in learning stuff, that that's an

(01:19:26):
that feels like success because I know for me, learning
never stops. I mean, you don't hit like life throws
different requirements at you. And so it's it's the site
learning always.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
See one of the things you see I think in
us as an as a father, right, you start looking
at kids and how they're educated, and you go, oh, right,
we're all dyslexic pretty much. And it suddenly makes sense
why music was such a natural draw, right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
It because stilling sucks.

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
That lets a brain so well that when you could
you could combine the exercises of looking at a sheet
of music, hearing it and and sort of performing it,
understanding the relationships. Music fit so easily and naturally as
a place to focus your education and your interest, whereas

(01:20:26):
other sciences and other things like I was such a
late reader, you know, I mean I was probably fifteen
before I was reading at some high you know, grade
level of a middle schooler. You know, it was such
a hard thing for me. But music was so natural.

Speaker 6 (01:20:42):
Yeah, I mean I struggled similarly.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Yeah, Okay, let me ask you. Everybody in the family,
all seven kids, were they all homeschooled from day one?

Speaker 6 (01:20:53):
Yes, yeah, actually, well probably the person well the younger was, yeah,
from day one, and then some of the younger ones
have gone to college, you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
Know, a high school, grade school. So the only thing
that wasn't Isaac and Taylor, we we lived overseas because
our dad worked for an oil company before the band,
and so when we were living overseas, you guys were
in sort of missionary schools, right, A lot of those. Yeah,

(01:21:21):
I just mean it's a lot of like English, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:21:25):
Yeah, yeah, they were just yeah, they were just well
they were mostly just schools oriented towards the either the
drilling field that was that we were living on yeah,
or or in that or in the one in Quito.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
Yeah, it was more of like an international a little
bit of actual structured school. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:21:42):
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Okay, that's only what about your kids? Are they home school?
Do they go to school, public, parochial?

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
I mean, a man of us have done every I'll
just speak from mine. We literally have done every version.
We've done private, public, home co ops between multiple families.
I mean we've done and it's been in seasons too.
Some kids took really week well to certain things and
they thrived in particular paths. Others didn't do particularly well,

(01:22:11):
so yeah, or that was just not their their path.
So we've done everything, honestly, Yeah, every version.

Speaker 6 (01:22:17):
Yeah, might have predominantly been in private school, but then
they've also moved to in high school years have moved
away from that to more of like a three day
a week, which is more like a co op type thing.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Yeah, my kids are in private school. You know, that's
really honestly, it's such a our traveling relationship with our families,
where you're gone multiple months at a time. It's you
really look at your wife and you go say, hey,
I will do everything I can, but I can't do
much when I'm not here, right, and so you're going

(01:22:53):
to have to be the the one that makes this
decision and what's right. So, homeschooling is so family led.
It's like when somebody says, you know, I'm joining the
Boy Scouts. You go, no, no, no, your parents are
joining the Boy Scouts because they run everything. Homeschooling is
really if you have that energy, that desire and so
so we've been in private schools and also I think

(01:23:16):
it's really I'm not we're not Catholic, but Catholic schools.
My kids have been in Catholic schools because there's such
an emphasis on sort of traditional things away from screens,
which I think is really valuable. I love screens, but
I love the idea that they're actually learning how you
write cursives. What a concept.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
Okay, let's go back. You mentioned religion. So when you're
growing up, how much was religion's part of your lives?

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
Well, mean, that's religion is a funny word. I mean
our faith being Christians as the core of everything. I mean,
it's not part of our lives. It sort of is
your life because it's what you believe and so that
that's played a huge role, I think partly in things

(01:24:10):
like the Fear. You know, this business being in the
public eye is all about capturing your fifteen minutes and
how long you can hold on to it. But as Christians,
you go like, I'm not at home onto this no
matter what I do, Like I'm not even here for this,
And so it allows you to like go of it,
I think in a really positive way and see it

(01:24:31):
for what it is. Our dad would say things like, hey,
remember you might never meet this person again, so treat
them like like this is your one moment to make
an impact on them positively in their life. And I
think that's a really Christian idea, you know, which is
just sort of see the image of God and every
person you meet, and so like it's it's been a

(01:24:53):
huge thing. And and when you hear a song like
Umbop or Where's the Love or weird, like, I see
think that the messages behind our songs. We don't write
Christian quote unquote music, but we write music as Christian men.
And so it's all about seeing the value you have.
It's all about turning away from the me into the

(01:25:18):
the we that we're supposed to be. You know, I
was born, as one of our songs, I was born
to do, to go to be, saying every single person
has a purpose in the world. I mean, I know
what I think your purpose is. Hopefully you will find
what you think your purpose is. And mostly our purpose
is to be positive influence on every people we come across.

(01:25:41):
It is interesting too, because it is at the center.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
If you have a guiding sort of purpose that is
tied to a belief, it is going to be in
all things.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
Otherwise it's not really what you say it is. It's
not your believe so it's you know, it's something what
you do, not what you say.

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
It's at the center of It's just the way you
go out the world and when you feel loved and
when you feel that you you're not an accident.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
You know you're not.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
You know that everybody has a reason and everyone is
you know, been coming from a place of a loving
God that brought you here. There's a sense of that
that kind of changes the way you go about things.
It doesn't mean you know. It mostly means you know nothing.
You know like you don't know a lot of things,
but you start with this sense of feeling that sense
of purpose, which I think the word purpose is a

(01:26:28):
you know, it's a pretty big one.

Speaker 6 (01:26:29):
I've had the blessing of through this crazy life we've lived,
you know, met some some very remarkable monks along the way. Yeah,
And I think when you meet someone that has dedicated
their life to the service of others and to kind
of seeking to be self less and get rid of

(01:26:50):
as much ego as possible, it's a hard one.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
It's a really.

Speaker 6 (01:26:54):
Inspiring thing to see. And when you see that, hopefully
you want to emulate that. And we've and we've you know,
you just try your best to kind of to do
those kinds of things and be as as close as
you can do those things if it all possible.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
I mean, you've ben wear it all day. You've been
wearing all black for like twenty years. You work your
right there, Father Isaac over here.

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
Okay, you guys live in Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Let's put it
this way. Too many people seems kind of off the grid. Yeah,
today there is no flyover country. Everybody has the same
cable TV, everybody has the same Internet. You guys have
been all over the world. You still live in Oklahoma.
What the people who are not from Oklahoma, not get

(01:27:48):
about Oklahoma.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
Well, what I say to people about Oklahoma is you
don't live here because of the mountains, which there are no,
or the coastlines that are beautiful, because there are none.
You live here because of the people, and you like
the way people treat each other and the values of
people here. We also like the pioneer spirit. Right, it's

(01:28:11):
inevitable that that DNA of those who came for the
land run right, these wildcatters who were coming out to
chase oil, Like it's bred into the state and the
people that have generationally stayed here. You know, our family
came from Scandinavia through Kansas to Oklahoma. And I think

(01:28:36):
there's that self confidence that leeds into a lot of
interactions that says, sort of, you aren't making me, I'm
making me. So I feel the confidence to just treat
you the way like a person, like a good experience
and value that. I think the actual state model is
labor conquers all.

Speaker 6 (01:28:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
So if that doesn't tell you, it's like called the
dust bowl. Guys, we didn't get the memo. We just
kept farming.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:29:05):
I often have friends. I often have friends who come
here from you know, various places. You know, you know
New York, you know, California, you know, London, whatever, you know,
and they'll go, people are so nice here, and I'm like,
it's not, it's not nice. It's that because people are
genuinely rough. It's really real around here. It's that people

(01:29:26):
are genuine and there's a difference real. The genuineness is
when they ask you a question, they actually mean it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
They'd like to hear an answer.

Speaker 6 (01:29:34):
Right, you know, as opposed to you know, it's it's
not it's not glad hating and and and so you know,
I think that's refreshing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:39):
I think when we travel as ay, that's true.

Speaker 6 (01:29:42):
Yeah, as a whole, there's oh yes there are there are,
of course, but as an as a.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
On average, the handsome career is probably most accurately defined
by the idea that we have defined what success means,
right and for in a world where the biggest star
in music still wishes they were also a movie star,
still wishes they were also an entrepreneur, still wishes We've

(01:30:11):
said that's not what we're We're not going to do that.
We're not going to play that game where if you're
not the biggest, you're you're always the worst. And I
think living in Oklahoma is about saying like, we know
where we want to be from. We want that to
bleed into the sound of our music, We want that
to bleed into the way we treat people, in the

(01:30:31):
way we build our business, and say like we're from
a place. And this has some limitations, but it also
sets you free, I think in a really cool way,
where you say you know, knowing who you are is
half the battle of getting to where you want to go.

Speaker 6 (01:30:49):
Also, our manager, our very first manager, was a deadhead
and really ingrained I think very strongly in us, very
valuably that community that can be unity, that fan community,
and the connection with the audience, and the idea that
when you go to a Hansoon show, for example, you're
not going to see the same show twice. And that's
on purpose, you know. And and he him trying to

(01:31:11):
kind of instill in.

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
Us, hey, change it every night, change it as much.

Speaker 6 (01:31:15):
As you can, make it interesting, make it cool, you know,
do what and and so we just we did that
kind of thing as much as we could. We continue
to do that even more obviously because its got a
lot more material to pull off of, you know, from
the early days to now. But and and our audience
knows that about us. And that's why you'll see groups

(01:31:35):
of friends sometimes even groups of couples that will go
to you know, a couple of shows in a row,
or even five shows in.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
A row, because they're there for each other, for each other,
and they're there for.

Speaker 6 (01:31:47):
The experience, because they know you're not going to do
the same thing tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
Okay. The business has completely changed from when m umbop
or embop or everyone how do you guys? Yeah, okay,
when that was a giganta kit.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
So you make an album.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
Today, many people who rang the bell at the top
of the business don't even make any new music because
they feel it's so hard to be accepted, to get
any traction. They'll just go on the road and play
the old hips. What's the motivation to making a new
album knowing no matter what you do, the audience is
inherently limited.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
Well, so, first of all, you could start your podcast
now and you could talk for an hour on this
subject because obviously there's a million opinions about it and
different takes on what's happened. But music is for one,
I would say that it's not just about the business
of music. Making music is not just for the business
of music, and that's one really important thing. You're making

(01:32:51):
music because you are music. You're you're a creator, you're
an artist. So it's why as part of what helps
you work through the universe, walk wake Up. Doesn't mean
you have to make expensive albums, it doesn't mean that
you can't play the hits. But the first reason is
because that's who you are, and so and so part
of the thing that we realize and was pointing to
the community is that we recognize some here, some heroes

(01:33:12):
we discovered like the Grateful Dead, who had these careers
where they were creating a community. And so part of
what we've realized is that we're making you're making things
for yourself. Yes, you have to make a business. There
has to be a you know, a tour and has
to be in come, et cetera. But you're making things
to tell that story and to take people with you.
And so a fan is not just becoming a fan

(01:33:33):
so they can hear the next pop song or their
next hook. They're also there because they're you're sharing how
you wrote it, you're sharing when you made it, You're
you're sharing a clip of what happened in the studio.
They're getting to connect with your journey.

Speaker 6 (01:33:45):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
We now for for many years have have a structure
where we make a particular project of five to six
songs every year just for our paid membership, which we
did pre Patreon, pre the you know sort of membership.
We've been doing that and because we realized it wasn't
just about putting out a song, it was about making
the relationship be ongoing. It'd be like having a restaurant

(01:34:07):
that stopped making you know there, you know, stop having
dinner service because they had the same you know recipes
like okay, there's a certain amount of recipes are always
going to be there. But the chef restaurants, the chef
shows up and says, oh, the special this week is
this because they're a chef, and so you're you're always
going to go back to the restaurant for the things,
you know, but you want to get the specials, and
you want to get the ceacl stuff, and you want

(01:34:28):
to feel like you're connected. And that's the difference between
a chain restaurant and a chef restaurant is is there's
a chef in house, and so we you're making things
because that's your story and it's what fuels the energy
of the relationship with your audience. And when we do
an annual event, we do a fan essentially like a
Trickies Convention for Hanson fans, which is this frightening idea,
but it's fans converge sort of for our anniversary as

(01:34:49):
a band on a day that years ago, the governor
of the state of our you know, declared Hanson Day
as a kind of a commemorative and our fans kept
celebrating it. So it became a kind of a birthday
for the band, a Hansom Day, and so we have.

Speaker 6 (01:35:01):
Happened also be our actual birthday because we started.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Doing the same, and so we we kind of we've
embraced to the point that we can the sort of hey,
let's host the party and let's celebrate with fans, and
we watch people converge and we see that they're connecting
to something that is not just about a song. They're
connecting to each other. They're feeling seen, they're feeling like
they're kind of found their tribe. And their tribe is

(01:35:24):
a Brazilian and a guy from Chicago and a girl
from London. A girl from Sweden and a girl from
Detroit and a girl from Tulsa all hanging out. And
that connection is part of why you make your own
next thing as a creator, because you're sort of you're
giving people a theme, you're sharing what you're going through,
and business wise, it's completely upside down.

Speaker 3 (01:35:45):
It's totally upside down.

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
I don't I but I mean it's upside down in
the sense that that what used to make people really
made fortunes selling albums and CDs, that there was a
wave in the you know where it's really making is
a good business to sell physical music that it doesn't exist.
So it's really an advertisement for who you are and
what you want people to connect with and be inspired
by and get involved with.

Speaker 3 (01:36:07):
To even write a song is an exercise and being
an entrepreneur, you have decided, despite the thousands and millions
of songs in the world, that you have something to
say that has a market that people need to hear, right,
And so I think that's the reason why you keep
making music. It is long, long, long term investment. You're saying,

(01:36:32):
if I do something that is really good, and I
say something that maybe really matters, and I throw it
out into the world. It might not even be today
or next year. It might be twenty years from now
that it really matters. But if I continue to plant seeds,
I will build this portfolio of for lack of a

(01:36:53):
better word, truth, and people will find it when they
need it. Now. Most things you do as a songwriter
are not judged by whether they're as good as the other.
They're judged by whether they're as successful as the other.
But as a songwriter, you don't do that. You know
that your best work is almost always the work that
nobody knows about, and if you're one of those ones

(01:37:16):
that's crazy enough to keep doing it, you live in
this strange dichotomy of believing that the best work is
the work you have never done yet, because you know
how bad you were when you started, and you've been
able to see your progression. Most people, you just don't
get to see your progression as easily as the artist

(01:37:38):
who gets to listen to that first song and go, wow,
that was that's what I dis clear indication of yours.
And so I think it's a hugely entrepreneurial spirit. When
it's best, it is not self conscious at all, and
we try our best not to be that, because if
you were self conscious, you would stop. You would you say,

(01:38:00):
there's no point in trying. It's going to fail again,
because most things fail. Even on an album like Middle
of Nowhere that sold eight million copies and was number
one and had you know, had a bunch of top forties,
it's remembered for one song. Yeah, there are twelve other
really great songs, which and you could argue that well.

(01:38:23):
And one of them was written by while in Man
with Us, which is, you know, one of the greatest
songwriting duos. It's a great song and it's probably a song.

Speaker 6 (01:38:32):
Oh no, no, it's certainly a better so in there,
you know, and there Where's the Love?

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
And you know, lyrics on that song are fantastic And
so it's exercise in in believing in yourself and believing
that you have more to give.

Speaker 1 (01:38:50):
Okay, tell me about this twenty year Is it a
fan club where the people get five or so songs
a year? How did that start? How many members are there?
Do they pay? How does that work?

Speaker 3 (01:39:01):
So, I mean it started twenty years ago. It started
actually as a magazine.

Speaker 6 (01:39:05):
Yeah, so it started it started as a magazine back
in nineteen ninety eight. And it was called MO Middle
of Everywhere, and so that had you know that we
distributed around the world. That was complicated, as you can imagine,
to kind of it was quarterly.

Speaker 3 (01:39:21):
It was quarterlyst example.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
I think we were inspired by you two, and we
were inspired by a couple other bands. We had a
touring sort of real real fan bases like they.

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
Again, I think it had about twenty thousand paid subscribers
to the magazine, which really felt like an amazingly huge number.
Then it was a little more than that. Probably it was.

Speaker 6 (01:39:43):
More a little more than that, but either way, and
then around and then that kind of number pretty much
transferred over to Hanson dot net, which is what we
currently have and have had for over twenty years. And
that that initially started off as an internet service provider.
We partnered with a company that provided dial up service
and we built a community around that. And then and

(01:40:05):
then a couple of years into that, we went independent.
And so we started doing because we could, because we
didn't have the label restrictions. We were like, Aha, we
can finally do what we want to do, and so
we just start We would put groups of songs together.
In some cases it was demos that were kind of
left from the record that we were working on. But
then a handful of years into that, we started doing

(01:40:30):
things like we would do songwriting retweets with other friends,
and we would write and recordatos and things, and so
you have extra content, and so we put some of
those in a collection.

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
And what we essentially were doing was a digital paywall site,
you know, access to another second private side of a website,
so that we could offer resources. We could offer Hey,
if you are in a membership, we have your name,
we have your information, we know you're a member, so
we can give you a pre sale, we can give
you access to meet and greets. And then we built
bespoke a couple times now, but now the current engine

(01:41:02):
is pretty powerful. A technology partnership with another company that'll
just build a design custom you know e commerce and
you know website that allows us to essentially a reward activity.
It's like its own social media sort of community where
people get points and tags and show activity in the community.
It's it's really just a relationship that's deeper than I

(01:41:22):
came to the site, and that through that pathway allows
us to do to make things special like this tour,
which just did or we just announced and it's coming
this fall. You know, the whole room where you know,
we're pre selling, giving special discounts to a fan club
member so they can get to the two nights back
to back for a lower discount products. They're getting it first,
you know, they're getting the check ins at the shows to.

Speaker 3 (01:41:44):
Get first in line, you know, so they can come
in first in GA shows. Yeah. The main thing about
a handsout end is you know, when you become a
fan of something, you realize that there's a group of
people that that they want to invest more and if
you can find a relationship where you can give them
what they're wanting, then that can help you do more

(01:42:04):
and more with less risk in the world. And so
as a business model, you can take the dedicated thousands
of fans and then turn that into sort of access
to millions of people because they're your base, your passion base.

Speaker 6 (01:42:19):
Yeah, shows up.

Speaker 1 (01:42:21):
So how many people presently are members of Hanson dot
net and how much do they pay?

Speaker 3 (01:42:26):
It fluctuate fluctuates between five and ten thousand. We all
look at each other and how much do you want
to share there?

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
It's yeah, it's they pay fifty dollars a year and
they have played forty until very recently we very reluctantly
raised the price, but with inflation and things and just
the change in service, we finally moved it up to fifty,
which is still extremely you know, hopefully we feel it
people feel like it's reasonable, but that you know, that
membership you're you're trying to give people you know enough

(01:42:54):
that it's like, yeah, I remember. And then one of
the coolest things that we do, which I think is
is also a really cool part of it, is there's
other events and things that are only available after you've
already become a member, Like we do a destination concert
in Jamaica we've done for over ten years where it's
a you know, like people do you know, cruises and stuff,
but we we take over a whole resort and fans

(01:43:15):
converge and they take their vacation. They spend an amazing
several days with one another. But you can't even go
to that event unless you're already first a member. So
there's a sense of there's just a sense of it.
It's also kind of a like, hey, I'm in at
this level, you know, and business wise, you know, it's
a reasonable you know, it contributes things that help keep

(01:43:35):
the lights on, kept keep the music going, and keep
the band operating. And also there's merchandising and things that
are kind of in that world too.

Speaker 1 (01:43:45):
How many people come to your anniversary concert every year?

Speaker 2 (01:43:48):
A couple of thousand, couple thousands, Yeah, and it's and
it's about you know. One of the things about that
is it's a lot of people that are obviously not
from here. So it's truly a like United Nations.

Speaker 6 (01:44:01):
Well, truthfully, probably be a lot more if we like
did it in Boston, yeah, yeah, or like or like
or like Dallas. You know, like if it wasn't it
wasn't as uh, you know, if it wasn't in Tulsa,
it would probably be even more because you know, you
put it in a hub city and you'd be a
lot easier. But but yeah, that's we do it here
in Tulsa specifically because it's our hometown.

Speaker 3 (01:44:22):
Person. We've done it Kaye's Ballroom, which has been there
for what one hundred and something years.

Speaker 6 (01:44:28):
Yeah, yeah, and then I've also done it at at
Tulsa Theater, which was called Brady for a while.

Speaker 3 (01:44:34):
Yeah. And then it's broadcast to the whole online community.
So all of the handston net members. Uh, and so
live in person you have several thousand, and then online
you have the whole community.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
Okay, So how accessible are you guys eyes? Do you
participate only on hands and dot net? Are you on
the big social media platforms TikTok, YouTube, Snapchat, Instagram and
Instagram reels?

Speaker 6 (01:45:12):
Yeah, we do all the social media stuff probably, you know,
we interestingly, because of our relationship with handsOn dot net,
we probably have done that a little less historically, way
less than we would have because we already have such
a strong community. But that is that is continuing to evolve.

(01:45:32):
But yeah, we're definitely accessible on all the social media
platforms Facebook, and you can't.

Speaker 3 (01:45:37):
You can't be in this business without being accessible. Yeah,
otherwise I don't know what business you're.

Speaker 6 (01:45:44):
In, right, Yeah, exactly at some some level.

Speaker 2 (01:45:47):
Now, we're not inviting you to a home concert at
our house, So we're not coming to your living room
literally unless there's a contest, okay, but we.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
All know in this business there are super fans. Yeah,
if people come to make or if people come to
the annual concert, are they going to get to meet you?
To what degree? Are you friends?

Speaker 3 (01:46:06):
Well, we always do meet.

Speaker 2 (01:46:07):
I mean we do meet and greets. In almost every
case with concerts, we have specific meet and greets. And
one of the things we've really tried to do that
we do not promise a meet except in specific areas
where they get on a list, they raise their hand,
they say, I'm going to be there. But we always
make an effort to set up the opportunity to have
a I came to see you. We we have a

(01:46:28):
you know, take a photo. In fact, every concert we do,
pretty much every public concert we've done since we started
the label, we have something called Hanson dot Net Reporter,
So we have a member of the fan club that
already tells us, hey, I'm coming to the show. They
get randomly selected and they then sit down just like
this and have an interview with us to talk about
So that's one of the ways. And and we've gotten

(01:46:49):
We've done a lot of conversations.

Speaker 3 (01:46:51):
And I think we've met. This is an important thing.
It's something that we've always said and and I don't know,
you know, so many bands sell access right they go
and for two hundred dollars or five hundred dollars more,
you can come meet me for it a long three
minutes and get a long hug and a and we
have never sold mean greats. I mean there's been some

(01:47:13):
cases where for a charity auction somebody gets to meet you.
But and that's been important to us, I think, because
as much as you know your fans, you're not friends.
And that's I think the place where this gets gets
dangerous sort of socially. This experience. You meet a lot

(01:47:34):
of people who have been through a lot of things
and your music has helped them through it, and you
want to be connected, but you don't want to be false.
You don't want to you don't want to for the
for the right price, like cross that line into this
sort of personal space where you go like we've shared something,

(01:47:54):
but what it is is not for sale, and it's
a part of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
It's a part of you can maybe meet some one,
but it's not like here's the price we'll ever live
through enough, you know, God bless them. There are some
crazy people. There are some dangerous people, and so you
you have to know the difference, and so you can't
you can't buy meeting us. But we're not hard to find,

(01:48:21):
and there's a there's a good chance if you come
to Back to the Island event Jamaica, if you come
to Hanson Day and Toulsa, if you come to really
any show on a tour that we're on and you
stand by the bus after the show, there's a good
chance somebody's gonna come talk to you and take a photo,
because we care about those connections enough to never make

(01:48:46):
them something that has a dollar sign in front of them.

Speaker 6 (01:48:49):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:48:50):
The lifeblood of the business is new fans, younger fans.
How do you reach those people?

Speaker 3 (01:48:57):
How do we reach new fans. We have a breeding
scheme where we are farming by our fans. We last
long enough that our fans who were twelve bring their
twelve year olds to the show. That's what we're working on.
Reaching new fans. Man, what an impossible scheme, because the

(01:49:18):
most likely thing is to do something that other popular
people are doing, which sometimes serves you but most often
makes you just a bad version of somebody else's genuine idea.
I think our version of reaching new fans truly is lasting.
It's really just to say still be here when somebody

(01:49:40):
has an opportunity to find you. And we do really
see the multi generational thing in our shows now where
the mom who is twelve is now forty and she's
got two or three kids and she's bringing some of
them to the show or all of that.

Speaker 6 (01:49:55):
Well, And I would also say too, the coolest thing
about streaming, although there are many problems with the streaming
and the way that it financially is created a lot
of issues with how do you even like earn a
living as a musician and have a career. It's it's
complicated because it was already hard. It was already hard
to be, you know, an artist going out there and

(01:50:16):
having any kind of success. It's it's definitely more challenging
in a variety of ways through streaming. But the upside
is that there is very low barrier barrier to entry,
and so what you do start seeing, interestingly enough discovery
is this continually like weird discovery. We'll be like, you know,
what's that group of sixteen year olds doing here? And

(01:50:38):
they'll walk up super excited to be like, we just
discovered you last week and you're like what, like yeah,
and it was so cool because we've heard some songs
of you guys from like when you were kids, but
then we heard all of your other stuff and you
guys are like really like diverse and really different, and
we just kind of had to see what the show
was going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:50:57):
Like I would say something to you.

Speaker 2 (01:50:59):
You said the phrase that you know, new fans are
the lifeblood of our industry or and I appreciate that,
but I would have to differ on that. I think
that connection is the lifeblood of our career in our industry,
meaning real fans are the lifeblood. And back when we
now live in a world where direct fan communication is
just so prevalent, we all live it. I mean, here
we are, we're literally sitting across this is like Star Trek.

(01:51:21):
What's going on right now talking to each other on
the screen. The world's forgotten that access to the pipeline
was the way the music business was built. A label
said I'm going to make you a record because it
costs to go to a studio and has tape, and
then we have to print CDs, print make records.

Speaker 3 (01:51:35):
We've got to distribute it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:36):
We've got to get a radio station, we got to
get TV, we got to get a magazine to write
an article. Now we can talk, and so the relationship
with that passion base we now live that everyone lives that,
but we saw it early, and so I think I
think the lifeblood is real connection to fans, real connection
which means one that goes deeper, because first of all,
once you get a person, they say that, I'm not

(01:51:59):
going to list number, but we know that dramatically after
college age in life, most people dramatically drop the new
music or the new arts they're discovering. College is kind
of the end of their like important, which is hard.
So if you do reach somebody earlier in their life,
they tend to become that they have a chance to
be with you through the ride. Like how many people
that came through high school and said James Taylor was

(01:52:20):
my thing. That's always their thing. Our parents three Dog Night,
you know. And so I think that connection is huge.
And as far as the new fans go, I would
say that adding to what's been said already, that new
fans are are just like the first ones. New fans
you find the same way you find any fan. You
have a piece of thing, you content, you have something

(01:52:41):
you believe in, and you lob it out into the world.
And the people that sit around and say, my audience
is really people from this age that have this color
hair they is, they're fooling themselves. You only know what
you believe in, and you only know what you can share,
and then you hope that you find others that go,
you know what, I dig that. I want to listen
to that in the car. I want to I want to,

(01:53:03):
you know, turn it up on the radio. I want
to go work out to that song. I want to
share that on the night that I get married. And
whatever times the music finds its way that you do
not control it. And so I think you can only
continue to cast you know, things into the universe and
hope that it finds people that feel the way you
do a little bit. And that's my that's my story.

(01:53:27):
I'm sticking to it.

Speaker 6 (01:53:28):
I will say one specific thing though about that. It's
it's interesting because I lost the train of thought.

Speaker 3 (01:53:40):
To say that. Yeah, let me then I'll say something.
What Taylor's talking about is the fact that the most
important relationships are are created through the advocates, and like,
there's a reason why people on social media know that
someone with ten thousand followers is more likely to create
more purchases than somebody with two million followers, because the

(01:54:01):
ten thousand people following that guy really feel deeply connected
to them. So when they when they have that connection,
they go, oh, oh, this is a personal recommendation from somebody.
And so what when you say create strong connections with people?
That goes back to the idea of you know, every
time you meet someone, being genuine, the stories in your songs,

(01:54:23):
being connected to who you are as a person. Right,
if everything is rooted in this deep reality and you
know some sort of the truth of the world as
you live it, then hopefully that translates into deeper connections,
which translates into people who want to share the importance

(01:54:44):
of those connections. And it's not about being a splash.
It's not about just just getting attention from as many
eyes as possible, but creating good connections. I think what
you're trying to say is, can.

Speaker 1 (01:54:57):
You remember I remember what came back to?

Speaker 3 (01:55:00):
Yeah, it's about having respect.

Speaker 6 (01:55:02):
I think what you were talking about, Zach is it's
about having respect for the audience because it's not it's
not calculated. You're not like you're just saying like, look,
I'm gonna be myself and I'm gonna be honest with
people as much as I possibly can. The thing that
you asked a little while ago. Why even make new music,
Why even make new music? Well, for one, maybe to
connect with new fans. That is certainly part of it.

(01:55:24):
It's certainly part of it. You never know what will
catch people. But also it's for your fans who have
been around for a long time as well, because you
don't want them to think that there's nothing new of
value for them to engage in. You want to give
them a new story and a new experience. And you know,
some of the best stuff we've ever done we did

(01:55:46):
last year, you know, and that's really cool. Some of
the best stuff we did, you know, in our life
was in twenty eighteen on that String Theory Orchestra tour. Yes,
one of the most one of the coolest, most emotionally
satisfying things I've ever done, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:56:01):
So that's why you do it.

Speaker 6 (01:56:03):
And I know for a fact that the audience comes
up after the show over and over and over again
and says a combination of that was deeply impactful to me.
Thank you for doing that. It really took this music
that I loved to another level in a new place,
and I'm so grateful that you took that risk.

Speaker 3 (01:56:22):
Oh, or how about this Oh.

Speaker 6 (01:56:24):
Yeah, I brought my kid for the first time because
I knew it was an orchestra show and they could
sit down and watch and that was deeply impactful for them,
and I know it'll last with them forever, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:56:34):
So those are the reasons why.

Speaker 6 (01:56:35):
You do that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:56:37):
Okay, you went independent before almost any of the major
label acts that it had success had Today everybody is
on that page, but you were early. So you talked
about the frustration with Island def Jam, You talked about

(01:56:58):
getting the financial stuff. Then you start with your own isp,
your own label. There's this incredible sense of freedom, but
you do reach a lot fewer people at the beginning. Yeah, well,
how did you handle that emotionally?

Speaker 3 (01:57:17):
Well? So, I think what we had experienced with our
Island def Gen relationship was that we had been locked right,
we'd been locked up, and really any number of people
was better than no people at all. What we also
saw was that we could be with the greatest label,

(01:57:40):
the biggest label, with the biggest budget, but it was
the wrong people. They wouldn't spend the money in the
right places and they would leave before the job was done.
And so you know, that's that was our experience. Six
weeks into our second album, it had sold almost a
million copies and they said, hey, it's not working. We're
looking around going we sold a million companies, we're platinum,

(01:58:03):
Like that's supposed to be the sign of efper echelon
artists and you're pulling the money in and so what
more was It is a sacrifice. It is an unfortunate
reality that money talks, but money is not a guarantee.
The only thing you can really count on are your

(01:58:26):
advocates and your effort. And so you put in the effort,
You put that energy into the people that you believe
will be there in the hard times, and that's probably
about as good as you can do. I think. I
think now today it's interesting to look at labels and

(01:58:47):
ask questions about what is the best strategy. It might
be that our independent strategy today is missing some things
and we need to rethink, you know, to be the
best business model. But fundamentally, it's it's really about that
long view and that sustainability that says we need to

(01:59:10):
bet on the fan base that has been neglected, because
they're the ones who are going to tell their friends,
who are going to create more fans faster than we can.
And as you grow into being an older band, you
know that has fans that have careers that are music
supervisors and executives like you go those fans, if they

(01:59:33):
so choose, they can they can put your record wherever
it needs to be by their fandom, not by your dollars.
So you don't have to reach everyone. You have to
reach the people who who want to talk, who want
to buy, who want to engage, and and you know,
you see that over and over and over again, especially

(01:59:55):
now with the way algorithms throttle things. Numbers are are
not the whole story, no, and so better to have
a great career than a fantastic opportunity.

Speaker 6 (02:00:11):
Yeah, well, you're right. I think it's worth diving into
one particular detail about that though, too, which is we realized,
especially at that second record, where you get a whole
group of new people who we knew from the get go,
From the moment that record was getting released, we're like,
cross our fingers, this could be a total shit show.
And you know, and sure enough it was, because six

(02:00:34):
weeks into the release of that record, they basically told
our career was over and we need to do solo records.
And they didn't believe in the band anymore, and you're like, wait, what,
hold on, what are you talking about. But anyway, you
get to the third record after you're kind of getting stuck,
as you said, trapped in this process with this label
you knew had no interest in really, you know, expanding
your career, and basically everybody leaves the agent, the manager, everybody, right,

(02:01:00):
all the people, everything, for various different reasons, some of
which were perfectly reasonable and amicable and some were which
were complicated.

Speaker 3 (02:01:10):
Yeah, we had a no agent, we had to find
a new manager, we had to get out of our
record label, and it was completely rebuilt from the end
of two thousand and three, which was a time when
almost no one was independent.

Speaker 6 (02:01:24):
But specifically we were told we had no fans left. Yes,
and so the promoters didn't believe in you and all
these kind of things. And we went and we said, fine,
we'll get in a van, we'll do an unplugged tour.
We don't care. And so you go from well, we

(02:01:46):
knew the truth, we knew the truth. And so you
go from doing one show that's one hundred and fifty
cap in Chicago and we're like crap, But oh well,
here we go to at the end of that year
having a show at the House of Blues in Chicago.
In Chicago, and so you're like, aha, see, and it's

(02:02:07):
not that it's perfect again, it's not that you're reaching
a gazillion people every single time. And yeah, we played
the Chicago Theater. We played bigger rooms and smaller rooms
along the way here and there, you know, on a cycle.
But the same would be true of like, you know,
playing the Middle East in Boston, and now we regularly
sell out in the House of Blues and in Boston.

Speaker 3 (02:02:24):
Also, it's just the flubris of the industry that that
was not seeing the thing that we saw.

Speaker 6 (02:02:30):
It's just fickleness and it's just and it's okay, it's okay.
But we just couldn't be trapped in that scenario and
so we had to take risks. We had to take risks,
and luckily we had had enough success that we could
better on ourselves and say, yeah, we might lose a
lot of money.

Speaker 3 (02:02:45):
In the documentary about that about that album, the third
album when we went independent, the album Underneath Uh, basically
at the point we we signed on to work with
Tenth Street, Alan Kovac who is You know. The great
thing about Alan, especially at that point in our career,
is Alan had no fear. He often had no friends

(02:03:06):
because of his lack of fear. But he was a
bulldog and he said, let's just do it ourselves. And
our natural independent spirit, combined with Alan's sort of satiable confidence,
said okay, fine, let's do it. He was also the
only person that could have gotten us off island. And
I think willing to go pick go, see us sit

(02:03:32):
there and and go what do we have to lose?
And everybody sits a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
We're here today. For those people who know you from
your hit days, what are one or two songs you
would recommend they check out to find out where you
are today, to turn them on, turn them back on.

Speaker 2 (02:03:57):
That's such a mue question, I mean, For one, as
much as I hate to say this, I do think
that the every Middle of Everywhere album, which we put
out in twenty seventeen is a really good starting place
because it touches on singles as well as non singles.

Speaker 6 (02:04:12):
Yea, but which is.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
Basically we put out a project called Red Green Blue
two years ago, and the record was divided into three sections,
one where each of us particularly penned or wrote the
songs and sort of led the creative like this is
the approach I want to take, like.

Speaker 3 (02:04:25):
Three, So I would.

Speaker 2 (02:04:27):
I would pick you know, I would listen to the
song write you a song from Isaac's or child at
Heart for myself or Don't Let Me Down, which each
of these are from a section of the album. So
write you a song, Child at Heart, Don't Let Me Down?
I would go there, And I would also I would.
We reference the Symphony Project a couple times because I
think it speaks to something. The Symphony Project, called String Theory,

(02:04:50):
tells a story and it opens up a different way
of looking at how we write songs, which is, we
roughly love pop songs, but we've always sort of heard
a symphony in our heads, literally and figuratively at least,
I feel that, and that project allowed us to paint
a different picture in bigger strokes. So it starts with
a song called Reachion for the Sky, and it says
something about what we are and what a note we
believe matters, which is the sense of believing and in aspiration,

(02:05:13):
believing in purpose, believing in aspiring to things, and.

Speaker 6 (02:05:17):
Believing that you're you know, you have a value in
the world and a thing that.

Speaker 3 (02:05:23):
You bigger than what people see, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:05:25):
And even just just to connect to that point, what
was it being described about the reason to go into
Bennett And it was I was saying there were some
hubers from the industry, you know, about themselves, and not
saying what I was really pointing to. And part is
we saw what was happening online in communicating. We saw
the communities. We'd built that fan club already while this
was happening, and so we literally knew that there was

(02:05:45):
a certain amount of people that had that had a voice.
And so when we go back to the songs of
what songs matter, we were feeling even in the high
and low times, we could see the songs that people
uh you know, wrote about on forum, or the or
the lyrics people tattooed on their arms, or the non singles,
you know, the song that you just put on there,
and then you're like, that's where that A lot of

(02:06:06):
people just seem to want to say that. So you're
you're listening as much as you are making things. I
think in this business, if you're successful, I think because
you say things you think people are gonna care about
the songs. We just you know, said, hey, try these songs.
But the truth is we don't know what rabbit hole.
The next fan is gonna go down and they're gonna
tell us, They're gonna tell us switch ones.

Speaker 6 (02:06:28):
You know, if people like really modern music, though, I
will say I was Born and Nothing like a love
song if you're more inclined towards kind of more modern,
more poppy kind of songs. Although those songs that you
ran from.

Speaker 3 (02:06:40):
Yeah, I was Born and nothing love song, for sure
tell you something.

Speaker 6 (02:06:43):
Very Nothing like a love song is very dancy. I
was Born is very kind of how would you describe?
It's like acoustic on the floor.

Speaker 3 (02:06:50):
Yeah, feels very accessible day Like. What makes us such
a unique band is that we have three lead singers
and three lead writers, and so there's a lot of variation.
I think our album Against the World, which was two
albums ago, best encapsulates simply the variety and the scope
that you will enjoy if you decide to be a

(02:07:10):
Hanson fan.

Speaker 6 (02:07:12):
It's most like a live show.

Speaker 3 (02:07:13):
In a way.

Speaker 1 (02:07:16):
Okay, gentlemen, you may not be educated, but you're all
very intelligent. And I mean that honestly. And very insightful,
very worldly. I certainly you know there's a lot of
questions we didn't talk about. You know, none of you
were divorced in a world where divorce is prevalent, but
I'll save that for another time. In any event, I

(02:07:37):
want to wish you luck and thank you for taking
this time with my audience.

Speaker 6 (02:07:41):
Thank you, thank you for giving us the opportunity to
talk to you, Chastra.

Speaker 1 (02:07:45):
Until next time. This is Bob Leftstacks