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March 14, 2024 118 mins

Jed Weitzman is head of music at Logitix, he specializes in employing data to properly price tickets. We also talk about Jed's upbringing in Los Angeles as the scion of a legendary attorney and the stepson of a legendary actor, as well as his career in management and more. The Morrissey stories are priceless!

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Leftstuffs podcast. My guest
today is Jed Weitzman, who's head of music at Logitics. Jed,
what is Logitics?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
So, Logitics is a company that really optimizes ticket sales
for rights holders, you know, by offering a comprehensive set
of solutions and products to teams, musicians, artists, you know,
all different kinds of rights holders through dynamic pricing, distribution
and data. You know. It's it's really about maximizing ticket sales,

you know, putting money in the pockets of artists or
teams and tickets in the hands of fans.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Okay, very simply does Logitiics sell tickets?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, it depends on we are. We're the software that
distributes tickets, Bob. So we work with teams, we work
with artists primarily to try to figure out how to
price that inventory, and then we do distribute. We do
distribute tickets absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Okay, let's let's drill down. Let's say I'm gonna act,
I'm an arena tour, I have an overall deal with
ticket Master. Ticket Master is selling the tickets for my tour.
Does Logitics intersect with that?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
No, not necessarily. Where we would come in with a
Ticketmaster act for example. Is the way it works for
me is I'll get a call from a promoter. We're
all get a call from an agent. We're a manager.
Here's what we're doing. We're going on the road. This
is what we're thinking of putting together. This is the package,
here's the routing. What do you guys think we can
you know, what do you guys think we can do?
What do you think we can charge? And really, Bob,

what I do is what we do is analyze the
secondary markets in order to help artists on the primary.
So look, I said secondary market. I know a lot
of people. Everybody don't turn off right yet. Okay, So
the idea is is that you're able to actually see
what's happening with inventory, what people are willing to pay,
what people are not willing to pay. It's you know,

how do I put this? At the end of the day,
we're really a company that you know on the music side,
I deal with data all the time, right, So it's
about me looking at the opportunity, talking with the agents,
looking at the routing, and figuring out the best way
to price that tour. So that fans get the tickets

and artists make that money. I mean, that's that's the
thing we're seeing it. That's the most difficult, Bob, is
pricing correctly.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, just trying to get the system down. Let's say
I'm a manager or an agent and I call you
about pricing before the tickets go into the public market.
How do you charge me?

Speaker 2 (03:02):
That's so funny. You know, that's an interesting situation.

Speaker 1 (03:04):

Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know, usually what we're doing is we're working you know,
the people we're working with, we're working by selling our
data or we're licensing our data to help people.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
But it just.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Depends, you know, it can be you know, if if
if the artist wants to openly distribute that those tickets,
if the if the if the team is trying to
openly distribute those tickets, you know, we're we're distributing them
and taking a fee that way. But it's very different.
The music side is very different than the sports size, Bob.
I mean, it's uh, you know, it's a very it's

a it's a it's a unique set of challenges. To
put it mildly and quite frankly, Uh, you know, the
music side where I where I exist is like kind
of pushing a rock up a hills sometimes. I mean,
it just depends. We charge many different ways, okay, but
we got to.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Get some specific so people can understand what you're doing.
Let's talk about people who call you for price before
the tickets are actually priced by the ticket distributor and
sold to the public. How often does someone call you
for that?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Every day, Bob, literally every day?

Speaker 1 (04:13):
And what kind of people call you.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well, it depends. Usually it's the agent, could be the manager,
could be the promoter. And what we try to do
is get ahead of it. I mean I got calls
this week from a promoter saying, Hey, my artist just
played a show in Florida. We had a fifty five
percent drop count on the show. I don't know where
my fans are. What are you guys seeing on secondary right,

So that's already too late. What we want to do
is be there before the tour goes up, while the
tour is in its planning stages, so that we're looking
at comparable artist in the marketplace, that we're looking at
the reality of what's really happening in the marketplace. I mean,
I don't know if you know how you know tours
are usually priced, but a lot of times people are
looking at historicals on the primary side or looking at

comp walls in the primary marketplace, which by the way,
is a great place to look. But we feel that
the secondary data is a really important data set in
order to complete the full picture.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, As I said, I want to be specific so
people will know what you're doing and whether they are
positive or negative, or whether they want to hire you.
Would it be fair to say what you're selling is
an analysis of the secondary market what tickets are worth
in that arena. Absolutely, that'll be a fair assessment to say.

I mean the idea is, you.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Know that look, at the end of the day, a
fan doesn't necessarily understand sometimes if you primary and secondary,
they shop where they like to shop. We like to figure,
you know, we believe that the data we're looking at
is you know, it's just that it's the real you know,
it's the it's the real representation of what a fan

is willing to pay for the ticket. And you know,
quite honestly, every day I'm getting calls with people saying
I don't understand why are my tickets high, why are
my tickets low? And what we try to do is
when we work with our clients, which are agencies, you know,
management companies, promoters, what we do is try to help
them see the complete picture as they're starting the process

of trying to price those tours. You know. So that's
the example, I mean, that's the idea.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Okay, So let's say I've called you, we have a relationship,
but I am anxious about charging a certain price. Will
you then say, oh, okay, I'll take five percent of
your inventory or some percentage in sell on the secondary market.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Listen, It's not that simple, quite frankly, because first of all,
most of the ticketing platforms, some of the biggest in
the business, don't necessarily allow Because now we're starting to
talk about the idea of open distribution, right, so, you know,
what we talk about is that in what we believe,
even in the free market, you know, ticket business, is

that primary and secondary are going to eventually combine into
one marketplace. And you know, for the for the sake
of this discussion, we can use the term secondary. But
the way I'm looking at it is that is that
we believe that the open distribution of tickets and transparency
across those things is the way, you know, to solve

a lot of the secondary issues that people are having.
And so it doesn't really work like that because you know,
it's not about you know, yes, if we're if we're
given the opportunity to take the inventory. But the thing
is is that everybody gets paid. So that's that's where
this differs from any other type.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, I'm not I'm not expressing a judgment here. I
understand interest, but there's so much stuff. Do you as
logitics and let's just keep it in music because that's
your focus. Do you ever sell tickets for talent.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
If the talent wants us to do that? Absolutely? Openly correct,
so that the ticket is listed on primary and all
the different marketplaces at this way. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Do you ever sell tickets for an entity when you
are not the primary ticket company? No?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Absolutely not, not on the music side. No, that's not
that's not what we do.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Okay, So let's go back to your original example. You
have an agent who calls you needs help. The people
who call you do they tend to have an ongoing
relationship with you where they call you said, I got
a big tour for stadium act. Thanks for this I'll
pay you, and I'm done well.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
To be honest, I've been doing this for a long
time and I've been in the business almost thirty years.
Hopefully after this podcast, I'll be able to be in
another thirty years, so you know, So yeah, Bob, I mean,
most of it is my relationships with people over the years,
and they know what I do, and uh, you know,
I consistently go into meetings with agents, with artists, with

promoters and show them the reality of you know, of
what's happening in the marketplaces and they go, oh my god.
They their minds are blown. And I you know, we've
been doing this so long and giving examples of what
is really happening in the marketplaces out there. You know,
if we can just take a step back for a second.
You know, eight years ago when I started to understand

what the secondary market was right in terms of how
it could be utilized, to understand the primary and find
ways to to to to to to show artists sort
of in certain instances what they missed in certain cases, right,

what what resellers had gone out and done, but but
more importantly, how they can best figure out how to
understand that data in order to place it in order
to make better decisions on the primary So it just
depends Bob.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Oh, okay, we'll dig deeper into how you actually do it.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
God, I thought you were gonna ask me what my
favorite led Zeppelin record is.

Speaker 1 (10:10):

Speaker 2 (10:10):
We're just diving right in, aren't. Well.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well, I think people, I want to get to your uh,
your business. We'll get to your life in a while.
You expressed in a previous conversation that ticket Master may
not think positively about logitics. Why would they not think positively?

Speaker 2 (10:28):
But I really did I say that? I think? Did
I really say that? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I think.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I mean I get along with those guys really well.
I mean, I look, I don't. We don't work with
them per se. But you know, if I get a
call from them asking me about how an on sale
did or you know, nothing makes me happier than sending
you know, numbers over there to show them that you know,
they were able to get tickets in the hands of fans.

There's not a ton of inventory on the secondary market
that verified can't work or whatever. Nothing makes me happier
about that. I mean, I love the ticket Master people.
I mean, they're.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Always let me. Let me let me phrase the question
a little bit differently. In the business, generally speaking, people
are negative about the secondary market. Yeah, when you do
your job, do people have open arms or are they
negative about logitary they're blown away?

Speaker 2 (11:24):
First of all, let me take a step back or
a step forward. Logitics is a company with almost one
hundred employees, a little over one hundred employees. We are
you know, the sports business was how this business was founded.
I don't know if you're familiar with the way that
you know. Ticket companies like ours work in the sports
business where we work with teams and we help teams

distribute that inventory not only in the primary but also
on the secondary marketplaces. Right, So, I mean that's that's
how this company was founded. The music side of things,
I can't lie to you, is tough. It has been tough.
But I'm one of the only guys that's out there saying,
you know what, this ain't going anywhere. This is the

reality of the concert business. The secondary market, if you will,
is not going anywhere now, certainly not for the time being.
People don't want to hear. People want to keep their
heads in the sand. You know, I'm one of the
only guys out there, and there is so much information
we can glean from consumer behavior, you know, all of
that stuff. So I mean that's the reality.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Okay, okay, okay, let's go back twenty five years. There
was this company, Big Champagne, who had data on what
was traded in Napster. That's all they did.

Speaker 2 (12:40):

Speaker 1 (12:41):
So when your a particular case, your job with Logitics,
are you only selling data.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
In certain cases?

Speaker 1 (12:49):

Speaker 2 (12:49):

Speaker 1 (12:50):
No, no, no, no, no no no. Does Logitics ever
sell tickets for musical acts?

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yes. And the way we do it, Bob is there
are a lot of primary ticketing companies that work with
artists that allow them to distribute their tickets everywhere, including
the primary So there are shows for example. I mean,
what's interesting about that, Bob is, for the most part,
it's distressed inventory. So we will get a call, for example,

when a tour is not doing well, more often when
a tour is doing well, so that we're able to
identify in the market via the secondary data which we
spoke about earlier, and then we will you know, we
will never buy, there's no buying of inventory. We always
work together with the client to figure out how to
distribute that everywhere, right, And so I know that might

be strange to some of your audience, but the idea
right of selling tickets or shall I say, distributing tickets
on the secondary because we're taking a very small piece,
we're bringing all that money back into the growth of
the tour is always to benefit the artist and you know,

the promoter and the ticket So I mean, at the
end of the day, that's that's the biggest difference between
what I think a lot of your audience think about
what we do.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay, so you don't do that with ticket Master? What
companies do you do that with?

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Uh? You know what, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say,
but there's just this but let's just say, let's just.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Use a company that does Okay, it's an exclusive ticket.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
I can I say one thing, but do you see
how that makes it? By the way, I want nothing
more than to shout from the rooftops right what we do.
And we're still in a place on Friday, marchase twenty
twenty four where you know that side of things is
not necessarily you know, people don't want to talk about it,
and you know I can tell you numbers and we'll

get more into it later about you know, the stats
we're seeing in terms of when we open distribute something,
you know, bringing seventy to seventy five percent new people
back to the back to the primary. No, it's not commercial.
I'm just telling you no, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
I want to get to the nuts and bolts and
then I want to know how you do it. All right,
So okay, let's say you have a ticketing company and
are we talking and you say, the act has an
allocation most ticketing companies, the act has an allocation to
their fan club. Are we talking about those tickets? It

depends BOP to be honest. Again, especially when we're dealing
with distressed inventory. Do you sometimes help acts with the
tickets they get for the fan club?

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Never? Never, there are no. I mean honestly, I don't
even know if the fan club tickets exist.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Oh okay, So if the show goes clean, they're not
going to call you, right never.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
No, that's the best case scenario. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Okay. So generally speaking, they call you when they can't
sell tickets.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yes, in certain cases. Yeah, but by the way.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
This is after you know, this is after the on sale.
We were talking earlier, before exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
By the way, Bob, where I was coming from before
is that I wish they would call me earlier, because
you know, then we wouldn't have these problems.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
I totally understand it. Just trying to get the logistics. No,
got so on some level, you're kind of doing what
gold Star does. Would that be fair in a way?

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, actually that would be fair. And we just brought
over a wonderful woman, Wendy Lebau from gold Star, who
I think you know, Bob, who's awesome. So she runs
open distribution for us, right, So well, I was saying, yeah,
I just thought, okay, you know there's some funkiness with
gold Star right in the way that people view putting
their inventory on gold Star.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Absolutely, but let's not make it about gold Star. It's different. Okay. Yeah, Oh,
let's assume you have it a ticketing company and an act.
Does the ticketing company ever call you without the acts participation?

Speaker 2 (17:11):
No? Never, It's all about the artist always. And by
the way, just so you know, usually the way this
works is it's the call is usually from the artist,
or the call is from you know, it's usually from
the promoter. It just depends. But you know, it's not
the ticketing company ever calling The ticketing company, you know,

always has to be paid and make their fees, just
like you know, the promoter and the artist. Everybody has
to you know, make their cut and usually you know.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Okay, okay, let's use a hypothetical, you know, yeah, because
margins are thin. Let's say it's an arena date and
ten percent of the sellout is the promoter profit and
only fifty percent of the tickets are sold. Okay, then
the promoter in concert with the act. Let's say we'll

call you and say, Jed, we have a problem, and
you will say, I will.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Say, let's look at the market. Wow, you guys are
way below face on the market. Are you going to
be able to come down on the prime area or
are we going to have to figure out a way
to try to get people in the building. I mean,
every situation is different, Bob, in all honesty, you know,
every situation is different. If that's if that situation happens,
then yeah, it's about taking inventory, undercutting the markets in

order to you know, you know, stoke the market to
get fans to buy inventory and buy tickets and then
you know, help them, help people get in the buildings.
I mean, I cannot tell you how many calls I get.
If I see my phone ring at nine point thirty
at night, I'm like, okay, this has got to be
an agent or it's my daughter from downstairs wanting water. Right,
So I cannot tell you how many calls I get

from agents saying to me, I'm in the roxy. There's
nobody here. We were sold down out. What's happening, right,
And so that's an indication for me to then go
and check the markets and see what's going on with
the tickets.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Okay, we're going to get to all that. Oh okay,
but let's assume I'm that promoter in the act and
I've only sold fifty percent. Then your goal, as logitics jed,
would be to sell the other fifty percent at a
price that the public will buy.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Correct. It's always trying to figure out the markets.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, and that might that might be below how it
was scaled on the primary market.

Speaker 2 (19:36):

Speaker 1 (19:37):
So let's just assume the date's going to play soon.
You get a call and they say, hey, okay, where
do you technically get the tickets from? And then how
and where do you put them on sale?

Speaker 2 (19:52):
So usually you know, it depends on wherever the tickets
are coming from. It could come from the primary, especially
if there's ton the blue dots. You know, it's always
let me put let me put it this way. The
days where tickets fall off trucks, you know, and that
doesn't exist, not in my world. And we can talk
about when I started eight years ago that I made
that really clear, right, So you know, they might come

off primary. I mean, that's where they're coming from. They're
not coming from any side pocket or fan club or
stash or anything like that. They're always coming from a
legitimate place with full knowledge from the artist, the ticket
and the promoter. Okay, So then I've got a team
of guys that are going in there monitoring the marketplaces.
We're putting it up through our systems, so you know,

we're listing it on the primary and then on every
secondary site that we're that we're completely interact, you know
that we're integrated with the idea of bob is. Most
people buy tickets via Google, as you know, so they
google the bob lefsets experience five things come up and
then it's you know, TM and access and whatever and

whatever the primary might be and you know, quite frankly,
we want to be where the fans want to buy
their tickets, and so that's the idea. The idea is
managing the markets for the artists in order to get
people in the venue. In certain cases, I.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Think you've been very clear, but let's just drill down
on this one thing. The secondary market is organized such
that the same tickets a pair everywhere online. Are you
part of that world to make sure this inventory is
available everywhere?

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Perhaps? Well, that's the you know, that's the idea. The
idea is to place the inventory everywhere and manage it individually.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yes, okay, you know the ticket network. Would you be
part of that ticket net?

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Now that that's a B to B, that's a broker
to broken marketplace?

Speaker 1 (21:56):
So no, okay, So just because I'm interested, Let's say
you have ten thousand tickets and you want to make them.
But let's assume you got them, you talked with the
primary you got them. How do you make sure they're
available everywhere? Technically? How does that happen?

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, we have a we have a software, we have
a system right that where that Jesus Bobby putting me
on the spot, not the tech guy here. You know,
we have a wonderful team of people that will you
upload that inventory, and they're not going to put it
all out at once. They're going to figure out a
strategy to find, you know, which marketplace is listing it

for for you know, for for this price or that price,
or which you know, the artist or the customer will
come to us with what they would like, what are
their floors, what are their ceilings, what they need to
make back on you know, all of that stuff, and
we will adjust accordingly. And then literally it is the
tickets going everywhere, and.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
But that's all via your logitic software.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Correct does no?

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Okay? And let's assume you do that for an act
and promoter. How does Logitics get paid. It's a percentage.
It could be a you know, a split and split.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Does anyone ever call you saying the tickets have gone
on sale, we underpriced them. Help us sell some of
these tickets at fear market value.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
I haven't had that experience in quite a while, to
be honest. You know, there's so much inventory out there
right now that we have, you know, it could happen
and hasn't happened in quite some time. Okay, So and
by the way, if I can just step back for
a second, Bob, I mean all that stuff right, My business,

primarily after COVID became a data business, and I know
we've spoken about that, and and so when I'm out
there talking and when we saw each other in Aspen
and I spoke about you know, open distribution and the
second primary coming together, et cetera, ceter like. That's where
I hope this is going right. And I mean, I
know that's where this is going because I see it.

It's just, you know, a lot of the stuff we're
seeing on the music side is more difficult to Uh.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
I want to get, I want to get, I want
to get all that, but I want to build from
the base. So you are saying jet and logitics today,
if we go to an annual basis, most of the
income is selling your expertise data advice.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
On the music side.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yes, yes, this is your expertise. And as you said,
you're not the expert on sports. Let's just leave that aside.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Okay, So there are good shows, Jesus, Bob, but they're
like God, there are good shows and bad shows.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
I'm the worst guest. You might have ever had, Bob.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
I just want to say no, no, no, no, no, no,
You're good. It's just trying. Listen. I don't know what
was making you anxious, because the reality is everyone needs
help selling tickets they can't sell.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well, that's what that's what I find, you know. I mean,
look and again, you know, I guess where I come from.
You know is that you know, we as a company
believe you know, in the open distribution of tickets, right
and transparency across all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Oh okay, you know, I just most this is not
a sophisticated business. It's sophisticated. But we're talking a lot
of people are saying I go on tour, I sell
tickets whatever. Let's not We'll drill down to philosophy after
you are saying post COVID you're mostly selling JED interfacing

with people. This is data, This is information.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Let me help you out, Let me show you how
to read it, let me help you out. Okay, okay,
kind of stuff. Well, let's just go back to the landscape.
When someone uses you, whether it be an actor, promoter,
does it tend to be a one time event or
once they use you, they're always using you. It's it's

it's a consistent situation. It's usually it's usually a good
EXPERI I mean, come on, Bob, rightt you having a
good time with me? I mean, it's usually an amazing
a business.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know, it's not so I.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Know, I know, okay.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
So, so, how often in a month do you get
a call to potentially do business with someone you haven't
done business before.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Well, it's actually pretty interesting. It happens quite often, at
least once twice a week. It just depends. But you know, also,
you know, I'm a music iy like you, so I'm
not a you know, I try to be aggressive, but
I try to kind of sit back and observe the
markets and so to speak. And so yeah, there are
certain agencies that I speak to more than others. There

are certain promoters I speak to more than others. It
just depends. There are certain folks in our business that
get it more than others and understand the reality of
the situation. So there's new business all the time. I mean,
I was in New York yesterday for a couple of
meetings that will be really interesting, mostly about data, which

was actually very interesting. One with a client in the
morning and then with a potential client and then with
a label believe it or not, in the afternoon. That
was very interesting. You know that there's just so many
ways to dissect what we do and the information we have.
So you know, yeah, it's it's you know, you can never.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Tell, okay, leaving goldstor out, which is a different model.
Is anybody else doing what you're doing?

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Oh? There we have competitors in the sports space. I'm
not sure about the music space at the moment. There
are a couple of bigger companies taken consolidators, but now not.
I don't really hear other people in my business at
the moment.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
So why isn't everybody calling you, calling me, calling you
for logitics?

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, I think the people that want to really dig
down deep and understand what's happening with their inventory call me.
You know, there are certain people, Bob, that I've been
you know, working with for years that I know it's
gonna sound shocking. Not everybody gets it, and that's you know,

there's a lot of people that are very comfortable with
the state of the business and how it works for them,
and that's absolutely fine. I have no problem with that.
But that I mean, that's the reality of the situation.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Okay, let's go back to the original example. Act calls
you before the tickets are on sale. How much of
your business is that?

Speaker 2 (28:45):
I would say a good third two thirds of the
business is that. I wish it was more. I gotta
be honest with you, Bob, because you.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Know, a lot of the time we got the concept. Okay,
now let's walk through Jed, you're my good buddy. I'm
going on tour. I'm not exactly sure what I should
place the tickets at. And Jed then says, I'll get
back to you with.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
What We have a team that will put together an
analysis of the historicals on that artist. We will put
together an analysis of current artists that are comparable pomps
to that artist, and we will come down to understanding
the markets on what people are, you know, the highs,

what people are listening, the medians and the lows, and
figure out a way to meet right in the middle,
the sweet spot, so to speak, by looking at the
actual information right of what people are willing to or
not willing to pay, and come to them with a recommendation.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
And just understand, I'm going on the road I haven't
been on the road in three years, how do you
assess the value in the secondary market.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
So that that's actually a very interesting question because we
just I just did this with a hip hop act
that actually hadn't been on the road ever. We looked
at what the scaling was on the primary We looked
at what they thought they were going to charge. And
this was this past summer. We went out and we
did an analysis of four acts or three acts that

were of similar, similar streams on Spotify, similar you know,
likes and you know, you know, on Instagram and all
that stuff, and we were able to come in with
the three comparable artists. We came to them with what
we thought would be the right thing to do in
terms of what they should price at. They didn't listen.
They went on sale. You know, they ended up canceling

a bunch of shows. And so I'm not saying we're
always right, but uh, you know that that's what our
guys do. We have really smart business intelligence.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
I just want to go back to that story. So,
since they had a canceled date, it would seem that
they overpriced the inventor.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
That's correct. We came in much lower than what they
should have done. Then what we thought they would do.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
So that happens. It's not you know, because people talk
about the secondary market and they always say, well, there's
a value they're capturing this, it's not going back to
the act. But sometimes the tickets are inherently overpriced beyond
what people will want to pay.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
And that's the concept what you just said about money
going back to the act. You know, that's what this
is all about.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
For us and for me, I understand. So let's just
say that I call you, Jed, I want to know
the value. That's all I want. You'll send me a
bill for that information.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Correct, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
And that bill might be based on hourly or a
basic fee. How would you come up with a number?

Speaker 2 (31:57):
I mean, Bob, I mean you know, we we know
what we charge. We have of rates for what we do.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Okay, so you have a rate, you have a rate. Yeah, okay,
that's it's fine. That's what I was looking for. Okay,
let's go to the secondary market. What do people acts
and ticketing companies not understand about the secondary market.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
I mean, the secondary market is six to twelve months
ahead of the primaries in terms of technology. There are
certain things that acts do, uh, I mean, what do
they not understand about the secondary market? I mean, I
you know, it's it's hard to really you know, I

mean I think they understand.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Well, well, well let's let let me I wasn't clear enough. Sorry,
let's just assume they have the tickets in terms of
the valuation of the tickets, which is what on one level,
what you really do it logitics? Yeah, how do they
not understand the value of the tickets or do that

the artist or the representative?

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah, Bob, I couldn't tell you. They are you know
that they are told that this is where it should be.
You know, you have to understand right that there's like,
you know, you have platinum where things are dynamically priced.
You know, the primaries have secondaries built in red dots
versus blue dots and all that stuff, and so there's

a much bigger situation behind the pricing discussion. There's a
lot more people involved in the pricing discussion than just
the artist. You know, there's a lot more that goes
into that. So you may see high prices on a tour,
because I know a tour recently where they priced extremely
high because they assumed the brokers were going to get
the tickets and the artists wanted to make that money themselves.

Didn't work. There was a lot of tickets available when
the show got close to the tickets eventually sold, but
the on sale didn't go clean. You have certain instances
where you know, if if I mean, I know you
know this, but if like if there's a big guarantee
from a promoter, they have to price the tickets at
a certain level so that they're able to make that
money back. And you know, they do, you know, forty

six shows that you know, three rolls of shows that
aren't doing well the first show, but they have to
roll them too the second show in order to you know,
pay the artist, you know, the guarantee in order to
make you know, and so you know, it's it's a
really interesting, you know process. Everybody's involved, and so you know,

when we're speaking to a promoter trying to help them,
you know, maximize you know, sales so that they can
you know, make that money back. Obviously, I mean, it's
it's a it's a complicated system. That's all I can
really tell you, you know. So, and I got to
be honest with you, I wish everybody spoke to me
about pricing, but they don't. And that's you know, I
can't that's thing I could do about that.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Okay, let's flip the script a little bit. We're on
the secondary market. What is going on there. They're getting
their tickets, however, whether through bots or whether they have
access to the building and Senate seats, how do they
decide what to price them for?

Speaker 2 (35:14):
You know, it's amazing. I uh, it's it's actually interesting.
I don't know because obviously I'm not in the world
with those folks. Sometimes some people are better, some you know,
better than others. The data sets, though, are insane, right,
So they are setting the market based on demand. And
the one thing you got to know about these folks

is that for the most part, when the market starts
to drop and that ticket starts to drop, they sell
their out, you know. So so it just they are
they are pricing, you know, to whatever they think they
can get. To be quite honest with you, you know,
there's a lot of folks that look at it that
if the market can bear it, they'll you know, they'll
price it and then you'll see uh tours, you know,

like there was one this summer that went out and
you know, a bunch of sneaker kids bought the tour.
You probably know about that one, and nobody bought the tickets, right,
So it's just it's it's always different. But these are
these are really smart guys, you know, really smart guys.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Okay, crazy, I want I want to clarify somebody you said,
you said when the price starts to drop, what happens?

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Most of these guys get out of their position, right,
So a lot of these guys, it's like, you know, look,
it's like day trading, I suppose, or you know, flipping
stocks or whatever it is, or I mean that's you know,
that's what these guys are really doing. It's a quick hit.
And if they can get in, great, and if they
can get out by making you know, their investment back

and a little bit on top of that, and they
just apply that to the next one and they keep going.
The thing you have to realize is that they are
getting the inventory by hook or by crook, anyway they can.
If it's a if it's a credit card sale, they're
you know, registering for cards. If it's a you know,
a FAVERI fight fan, which I don't even know if
fair fight fan exists. Anymore. I'm not even sure they

call it that anymore. You know, they've got you know,
sixty people in another country that are sitting there slamming
the servers. Right, Like, you have to realize that what
Ticketmaster does is actually incredible, right because it's so giant,
and there's so many people trying to buy tickets all
the time, and most of the time it works, you know,
as a matter of all the time it works. It

just sometimes, uh, you know, these guys are a little
faster and they get in there and get it, you know,
And that's what's I mean. I had a woman call
me today, friend of my mother's bob, who didn't get
Billy Joel tickets. She was so upset. She waited in
the queue, she was, you know whatever, ten thousand people
in front of her into it. By the time she
got in the queue, she didn't get the tickets. There

were bad tickets left, and there were the resale tickets
were too expensive. Jed, what am I going to you know,
I'm gonna help her get the tickets, right, But like
the point is is that that's the that's the reality
of what happens every day.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Oh okay, okay, let's go to your mother's friend. What
advice would you give her? Would do? Actually? Is she
your mother's friend and we all know people, and you'll
get the tickets that way? Or is there a way
if you're the average customer to get the tickets that
are the best tickets of the best price.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
I mean, to be honest, if it's not on the primary,
you have to go to a secondary. You have to wait. Now,
it's my mother's friend, so of course I'm gonna get
her the tickets and she's gonna have a good time
at the show. She'll probably sit next to you and Felice.
But that's another story. I mean, I you know those
are but those are the calls I get every day.
I mean, you have to realize most people don't know

how to put a code in a box on Ticketmaster, right.
And the other thing, you have to realize that most
people don't even know they're not on Ticketmaster right. They're
looking at whatever app they have in their phone with
their credit card save that they know that they're familiar with.
I mean, I still have people come to me after
being in this business for thirty years and the artist

doesn't make money on step up. It's like Jesus, are
you serious right now? I mean, I'm telling you every day,
and I have people in the business that say this
to me record business, not to take a business and
and look, I don't. I don't mean to be, you know,
uptight about it. But I do you carry I have
chip on my shoulder, Bob, one hundred percent. You saw
it an aspen, right, I I am so passionate.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Okay, but I don't. I don't, I don't. I don't
do what you do. I have a friend who's a
household musician name musician of a very successful act. And
this person is sensitive and has gotten negative feedback for
decades as a result, that person is very sensitive. From

my dispassionate position, I can't see, you know, forget that
I did with ignorant people with the agendas all day long. Okay,
but from what you've laid out now, I don't see
from your perspective, anything to hide anything that is untoward.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
By the way, I agree with you. No, I agree that.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
They're ignorant people. People believe I have stock in Spotify.
It's like I know those people I believe service. No,
of course I don't have stock.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
That's what I mean. Bob. You know.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
But I'm trying to say is you people will cannot
handle the truth like in the old movie. But I
want to go back to this story. What have we
learned about the value of tickets? Because, needless to say,
in many cases, the secondary market prices are different from

the primary.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Well, I think what we've learned about pricing of tickets
is that people are going to pay what they will
or won't for the tickets, and that the free market
of the secondary market is a much better indication of
what is of what people really want. And uh, you know,

the thing for me is everybody should make money, promoters, ticketers, artists, everybody.
But it shouldn't be you know. But so that's where
I come from, and that's the that's what I'm trying
to talk about, and that's the belief I have, is
that everybody should be working together. Right And so when

you made the comment about people not liking me from Ticketmaster,
maybe I made that comment someday. I have no idea.
I want Ticketmaster to make money. I want them to
make money if we were to openly distribute tickets together
a hundred percent. They also everybody should make money.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Okay, let's not speak to the uneducated and uninformed. You
and be both have a certain level of sophistication, and
I'd rather get inside information I'm unaware of. Then we
hash the ignorant people and their opinions. Okay, what do
you say to the acts who come to you and say,

based on my image, I can't charge more. What do
you say?

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Tell them they're crazy, Tell them the cost of touring
it's expensive. Cost of living is expensive. And if people
are willing to pay for that ticket and there's a
market there, you should charge for it. You know the
thing with Bruce last year, right when he was charging
the platinum tickets on the floor or whatever, it was,
five thousand ticket and you know, people went crazy. First,

I don't know if that many people went crazy, but
quite frankly, those tickets sold. People bought those tickets, and
you know, that's the reality of the situation. I believe
artists should make money, However they can't. I do believe
that there are certain is where everybody he needs to
be on the same page, in the sense that the

artist needs to be aware of what people you know,
of what's happening on the primary so that there's no
so that everybody is on the same page, and that
you know, nobody's you know, charging more than the artist
has agreed and all that kind of stuff on the
primary right, But like it has to holistically work together.
You know what's interesting about the music business, Bob, is

that I feel like it's the only business where people
get you know, people get a lot of heat from
their fans for charging you know, fair market prices for
people to come and see them. You know, tickets are expensive.
I'm sorry, that's just the way it is, right, I mean.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Well, as I say, you know, the number of people
who complain is really relatively small. If you talk to
those people, they believe they should be able to sit
in the front row for fifty bucks. They're just delusional.
But let's just say, Bruce, you know, back on the road. Now,
let's say John Landau called you for unbooked dates. Obviously

you would go through all your data and find out
what you think is the fear market value. Let's just
say that he would say, well, I don't want to
charge more than a bucket a quarter for a ticket.
What would you say?

Speaker 2 (44:20):
I would say, that's you know, so that's up to you.
That's you know, whatever you want to do. This is
what we think you could charge, and if you're not
comfortable with that, that's fine. By the way, I would
love John Lander to call me because Henry, my dad
is the biggest Bruce Spingstein fan. I'm taking them to
the show pop. But uh, I mean that's you know,
it's up to the artist, right, I mean, the artist

has the right to wait.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Wait, wait, the artist has.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
The right to charge what they want.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
To charge, right, right, But irrelevant of what you're doing.
Now we get into the philosophical point of how do
we solve this problem? One thing we all know which
no one can accept. Not everybody can get a ticket.
It's just that way.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
That's reality.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, right, if I snapped my fingers, what is the
appropriate way to price tickets across the board or to
sell tickets?

Speaker 2 (45:14):
I mean, look, those are two separate things. My belief,
the best way to price the ticket is by looking
at the actual the actual free market. You know what's
going on out there, what people are actually paying for
the ticket, because you can see that because I can
show it to you day after a ticket, you know,
an on sale. Every day, my numbers are freshed. I
can show you what your position is in the market, right,

or what other artists you know or what you know.
So it's like I got to call recently about a
young band, Bob Okay, and the agent was concerned about
the secondary and that nobody's going to be in their
venues and there's tons of inventory in the secondary. And
I said, hold on a second. I pulled it up
on the computer. There was very little inventory on the secondary,

but it was insane. The prices were crazy. And I'm
talking to troubadour shows, you know, tiny little shows. And
so that's a really good example to me of, you know,
of of the free market of what you could charge
for those tickets. They didn't want to do that, but
that's just an example of next time they're going out,

how they're going to you know, how you can look
at that and how you can charge for those tickets.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Right. So look, well let's be philosophical. You're in this business.
You know that no one complains about four figure prices
for sports. They almost brag about it. I went to
the Super Bowl. I paid six thousand dollars. I was
in the building.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Can we ever have that mentality in music?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
You know, Bob, I hope so. And that's not from
a ticket seller's point of view or a data seller's
point of view. That's for from the point of view
of of what's good for artists. I mean, I mean,
you know, I'm sorry to say it, but I really
believe that artists should be making more money. I really
believe that. That being said, I do think they need

to Philosophically, I hope we get to that place. Philosophically,
I hope we get to a place where secondary and
primary or want you know, I really believe that's where
this is going. I really believe that, you know.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Okay, just to be clear, theoretically, if tickets were placed appropriately,
there wouldn't be a need for secondary, right.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Well theoretically, but the marketplaces still exist, and so you know,
you're I mean, so the the idea is, it's not
necessarily the fact that you know, the second you know,
the secondary is you know, increasing or decreasing the price,
it becomes a distribution model. So you know, fans again

should be able you can buy a ticket where they
want to buy that ticket, and the artists should be
able to make money that way. You know, that's the idea.
I mean, if you really think about it, if artists
were to come out and say we want our tickets
sold everywhere, it's like a win win for everybody because
everybody's getting paid. It's not just sitting on the primary.
I mean, you know, red dot is a ticket that's

being sold everywhere, right, So like that's a reseller ticket.
The red dot is still you know, sold, that's still
a ticket that's listed on stub ups. He geek givet
all those different places, right, so you know, I just
it's uh, you know, let's.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Go, let's go one step further, very specific. This is
all theoretical. Your model works that way, and the set this.
We'll call them scalpers, just because I don't want to,
you know, the theoretical bad guys. They say I bought
the ticket at one hundred dollars, I'm selling it for

five hundred dollars. That's four hundred dollars minus cost to me. Yeah,
then you're going to come along the act and you're
gonna say, I could have primary tickets, but if you
sell them, I get ninety percent of the money.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
I mean that's yeah, that's that's Do you think.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
We'll ever get to that point? Because it's breaking their
business model.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Listen, I'm not worried about them. I'm worried about the artists.
And what I do believe we're going to get to, Bob,
is that an artist is going to say, Hey, you
can buy my tickets on primary, you can buy my
tickets on the secondary. I've had conversations with some of
the exchanges about selling official tickets, you know. So I

mean we're going to get there. It's just a matter
of things open, okay.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
But I just want to project, and it's all theory.
There are a lot of players in the secondary market.
If the secondary market sellers have access to primary tickets,
will that eliminate a number of people and leave the
professionals or will they kick in screen try to have legislation.

What do you think will happen?

Speaker 2 (50:07):
I mean, look, they're already trying to have legislation, you know,
to deal with the situations that are out there. And
quite frankly, you know that's great. I don't I don't
think it'll ever go you know. I know you had
Dana on who's a very good friend of mine, recently,
and I think what NIVA's doing is completely fantastic and
we're friends, and I work with a lot of their

you know, a lot of their people. But yeah, I don't.
I think the I think the way to solve the
issue of the secondary market is to open everything up
and literally have tickets available everywhere. That's what I think.
You deal with that.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Okay, that is the end. Let's go back to the beginning.
I'm an act. I'm calling you about the pricing of
the tickets, calling an arena fifteen to twenty thousand. Would
you say the flex price certain tickets or would you say, no,
price them at this amount?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I would say, price them at this amount. And then
you know, again, yes, the answer is, I would say,
price them at this amount, and let's figure out how
we can move them because quite frankly, a lot of
the times with a lot of times when we're doing
that and there is no open distribution involved. So it's
a one time thing. This is what you're doing, you know,
this is how you do it. Go ahead, and then

we're watching it obviously going forward and we're looking at
you know, hopefully the map doesn't look like you know,
the Pacific Ocean. It's all blue, right, so you know,
you're figuring trying to you know, make things. You know,
hopefully things goes well and you get to move the
invent you need to move the inventory, and it's clean
and there's not a lot of red dots.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Forget what was used to be called platinum, which was
seats up close occasionally with a perk. Now they call
sections of the arena platinum because they're flex pricing. It
happened to no promoters who when on sale goes on
let's call it Saturday at ten am, they are changing
the prices based on demand.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I'm aware of that.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Are you saying, if you listen to me, you wouldn't
have to do that?

Speaker 2 (52:12):
I no, I'm not. I mean because if it's platinum,
you know, the more money they pay for a tour,
the more platinum seats there are, right, and all that
money goes back into the pod. And you know, I
think that maybe the people you're talking about well flex
prices based on demand, and I think that's great for them.

You know, it's fantastic as long as they're able to
sell the inventory and the artist is happy, and you know,
artists doesn't feel like they're being you know, you know,
it's all good.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Okay, let's talk, as I say, forget the seats that
are sold up close for four hundred five dollars. In
the case of Bruce, there were seats in the first
balcony which they now called platinum, which was euphemism for
flex pricing. Needless, there's a lot of things. The prices

went beyond what anybody would pay to sit that far.
Do you think if you were advising an act, would
you say, oh, that section up there, I can price
it appropriately as opposed to you flex pricing it and
risking backlash and all this other stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
I might give my opinion, but you know, I'm not
going to get in the way of what the promoter
wants to do, you know, I mean.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Well, let me let me change.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Well, you know, I know we're theory I know we're
being theoretical. I know.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
No, No, this is you as a person, not you
as at logitics. Would it be better if the price
was the price as opposed to the flex price the
secondary market, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
You know, Bob, that's a tough call for me. I
you know, I understand where the promoters coming from. I
understand that, you know, that's their decision. I'm not trying
to dodge the question I'm just trying to be honest here,
which is they have that right to you know, do
what they want for that inventory, for that show that
they're paying for all that stuff. I mean, but me

as a human being, I mean, yeah, sometimes it can
be a bummer if it's too expensive. You know, if
it's an eight hundred dollars ticket supposed to be three
hundred and fifty dollars and they're flexing him to eight
hundred on the floor of an arena, you know, and
it's you know, forty rows back or thirty rows back whatever,
but the mark you know, the shows, there's forty thousand
people in the queue and things are going crazy, and
you know, I mean, believe me, they're all aware. People

are all aware of everything that's going on, right so,
especially after Taylor. So yeah, I mean, you know, I
think I think finding the best way to get tickets
in the hands of fans is the.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Most important Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
And I'm sorry to dodge around it, but no, no, no,
you're not dodging, and you're answer the question. Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Is there a risk with weight tickets are sold now
with flex pricing that ultimately there is a stink upon
the artist. The artist concept that I'm afraid the fan
won't like me anymore if I charge too much or
I do that? Is that a fiction or is that reality?

Speaker 2 (55:19):
I mean, listen, I again, remember we talked about it.
There's a very small group of people that are very
upset about it. I mean, I think that's the reality
of the situation. I you know, it's a it's a
tough one. It's you know, as as things, you know,
as we live in a world where things get more expensive.
You know, my argument with people is it really expensive

to two these days, it's really expensive to deliver a
show that fans want to see. Fans expect a certain level,
you know, so it is expensive to go to a show.
By the way, it's expensive to go to My wife
and I always look at each other when we go
to Disneyland and take the kids. We're like, how are
these people affording to come here?

Speaker 1 (55:59):
You know? So it is what bothers me most is
the Springsteen fans who want to go for one hundred
dollars will go for dinner for an hour and a
half one hundred dollars per personop listen and not think
twice about that.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
But my fourteen year old India Okay said to me recently,
she's watching the Formula One show. Dad, I love Charles Leclerk.
I said, that's great, because can we go. I want
to go to the Formula one in Las Vegas. I said, well,
that's not happening. No, Dad, you don't understand. I said, honey,
that's so expensive. Not happening. You're fourteen, love you all
watch it on TV. That's kind of a reality of

the world we live in. Like it's okay to not
do something. It's okay to not be able to do something.
I mean, Jesus Christ, I would love to be able to,
you know, go live in Paris. But I yeah, that's
it's expensive. I mean, you know, it's these are difficult things.
There are decisions you have to make in life. We
live in a society. I mean, now you really want
to get theoretical with you know, this phone I'm holding up.

Where everything's instant. Everybody thinks they have access to every everything.
Everybody thinks they're entitled have access to everything, and you know,
it's just part of life. I guess where it's okay.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
You're dealing with the data every day. Needless to say,
there was pent up demand subsequent to COVID. When the
business went live again, Live Nation had incredible numbers. Recently,
what do you see in the marketplace? Is there any
softening of demand?

Speaker 2 (57:24):
I mean, it's it's gangbusters. I mean, the only thing
I'm seeing is there are certain tours out there that
may not have performed initially on on sale that I
think people thought. But you know, it's a machine. You know,
it just keeps going, you know, and you do a
theater tour, then you come off, you do an arena tour,
and look, I the numbers are astounding. They're amazing at

what they do. You know, there's nothing I can say
except amazing. Those guys are incredible, you know. And I
don't see any softening. I mean, it's bigger than ever,
you know, it really is. It's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Okay, let's go back. How'd you get this job?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
So? I had been working at enough So about eight
years ago, I was I, you know, was I just
moved back to LA from New York and I was
kind of had finished. I had a production company with
a friend of mine, and I finished doing that and
a buddy came to me and said, hey, I'm buying
a ticketing company. And I said, okay, great, he goes,
could you help me meet some people at the agencies

and so, uh, it was a secondary ticketing platform, right,
And so it was you know, a distribution company, right
that would make deals, you know, take a consolidator making
deals with you know, sports teams in order to manage
that inventory and distribute it everywhere. Because as you know, Bob,
you know, there's eighty one games a year, fifty thousand
people in the stadium, and you know, you got to

you've got to figure out a way to you know,
sell all the tickets. And so I met with these
people and they show me their information and I said, wait,
there's data there. Let me see the dad. I took
him around and I started in this business trying to
understand the secondary and for the first few years it was, uh,
you know, it was it was very interesting. You know,

the markets were crazy, everybody was going nuts. There were
big tours, and then COVID happened. After COVID, I turned
this job into a data business more so than a
distribution business on the music side. And about almost two
and a half three years ago, I got a call
from a friend of mine at Logitics, who said, we'd

love you to come over here, and uh, you know,
come work with us.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
And so wait, wait, just so wait, just so we
understand when you started eight years ago, you were working
for a different company.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Not working for no I was not working for Logitics.
I was working for a different company. But again it
was you know, sort of both feed in in understanding
secondary And as you know, I grew up in this business.
I grew up around this business. And I've been in
the music business. I've been a manager for almost thirty years,

which just pretty crazy you think about it. And so
I just knew everybody, and I knew a ton of
people in the music business. And that began me going
and knocking on doors and saying, look at this data,
look at this information, and how can we figure out
how to understand this and make you smarter and get

you more money in your artist's pockets and you know,
put tickets in the hands of your fans. And that
was how it went. And yeah, so Logitics has been
a really great experience. It's run by great people, Bob,
And I think that's the other thing for me that
sometimes people don't understand about what I do is I

truly work with wonderful people who actually give a shit
about what we do and about the idea of taking
care of our clients.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
And Okay, so you're the you're the front person.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah, the people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Were scraping the data and analyzing the data. Is that
one team that covers everything, sports, music, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
I have. I have a team of guys that handle
the music side of things. Gil Michael so much smarter
than I am. You know that actually are out there,
you know, and we you know. No, And by the way,
it's you know, it's a it's a team of people.
So I have a team on my music side. As
I said, I work with Wendy on the open distribution side.

And yeah, I mean it's uh, it's a lot of
people in this company. It's gotten really big.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Okay, let's go back to the beginning. Your father, who
recently passed, was a legendary attorney, Howard Whitesman. When did
you realize he was Howard Whitesman.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Wow, that's a great question. Well, you know, you take me.
He used to take me to his client's houses. Okay,
my parents got divorced when it was four and my
mother tells a story of when I came home at
one point from being with him on the weekend, because
I always went to him on the weekend. I told
her a story about going to dinner at these nice

people's house, probably Wittier for something like that. Pop and
the mother, the wife was feeding meatballs to the doberman
from the table. You know, it was like it was
Louis Dragna. You know, i'd some mob guy. You know,
When did I realize he was Howard Whitesman. You know,
I guess my whole life, you know, and you have
to realize, like you know, when my parents got divorced,
you know, my dad was Howard Whitzman. My stepdad was

the Fawns. It was nineteen seventy five. I mean, it
was like insanity, you know. And so my dad was
My dad was one of a kind. I mean, my
dad always took care of business. There were never any issues.
He was a larger than life guy. I don't know.
I sent you something this morning. I don't know if
you had a chance to read it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
I did.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
My dad was the kind of guy that would say
I love you, but if you cross me, you know,
I'll see the shit out of you. You know, I
mean that was him, you know, you know, he was
the thing about my dad was that he knew everybody,
and the most important people to him were the guys
that took the car, were the guys that were the

bus boys that think, you know, because he came from nothing,
you know, and so you know, I realized he was
Howard Whitesman, you know, quite early on. My dad was
the coolest bob. I mean, to be honest, you know,
growing up, you know, I always he told me that
my first concert was Mata hoopelt like seventy five at
Santa Monicacidic. I don't know if that's true, but I'd
like to think it's true. But because I was with

because I was with him on the weekends, you know,
and I was with my mom and Henry all week
you know. It was my dad and my stepmom. And
so if there was a concert, if it was you know,
the long run tour at the Santa Monica Civic, my
dad was bringing me. Or if it was you know,
if we were going to see you know, Russ never
sleeps in the theater and the avco, it was my
dad was bringing me. I was always this little kid,

always in adult situations, you know, And yeah, it was
a really interesting, unique way to grow up. Very special guy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Okay, he was a very high level guy on big cases.
To what degree was he representing musical talent?

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
So he always represented you know, guys that got in
trouble in the olden so and I swear to God
if I remember this right, you know, tonight's the night
the Neil Young song and he talks about Bruce Barry was.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Of course.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
That's right, And I think my dad represented Bruce and
so you know, he always would tell me that, you know,
I mean in the old days, in the four in
the three ADSL or whatever that little car was, there
was no seat in the back seat. I was in
the back seat. He was in the front seat. You know,
there was no seat, there were no seatbelts, and top
was down driving wherever we were driving. Neil Young on
the on the deck Steely Dan. I mean, that was

my dad. We listened to music all day long, and
so you know, one of the things that is so
important for me to get across to you is that
music's my life. You had my buddy Chris Robinson on
and I was listening to it yesterday, like those like
That's what I love. You know, music people to me
are it actors schmacks. I don't care. Like if you're

a rockstarant and you walk in a room, I'm gonna
lose my mind, you know. So for me, like those
are the those are the most memorable things. So with
my dad, you know, he represented those guys when they
got in trouble, and then after DeLorean and then when
he you know, uh so you know, amazingly stepped away
from the OJ case. You know, he just always you

know that he eventually became this guy that was sort
of a litigator, and then the Jackson estate happened. And
but to this day, I will meet people who will
tell me, you know, I knew your dad, you know.
And I'm not talking about like, you know, the people
I knew that knew him, that I grew up with,
random people, or you know, I'll go into meetings in

an agency, you know, with seventeen agents, and we'll finish
the meeting and I'll be explaining dad to them, and
one of them will come up and you go, you know,
I knew your dad, and he took care of me,
you know, and so he knew everybody, and so he
was really really incredible guy, Bob, And so yeah, I
mean that's I mean, that's why I do what I do.
You know, Okay, let's go back.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Your biological mother. How many times was she married or husband?

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
She has been married to my father and then to Henry.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
So okay, your father, how many people has he been
married to?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Just to my mother and to my stepmother Margaret White? Okay,
still in my life and all best friends.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Okay of your biological mother, your biological father. Are there
any other kids of the marriage other than you?

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
No, they broke them all when I was when they
had me, it was over.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
And when Henry married your mother, did he come with
kids or did they have?

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Now we I have a sister Zoe and a brother Max,
who are pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Hilarious, and they were born with.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
My mom and Henry. Yeah, and for us, Bob, it's
you know, there are no steps. You know, when my
father passed away, my sister Zoe spoke at the funeral.
You know, my stepmother, Margaret comes on vacation with my
mom and Henry. You know, it's a whole. It's a whole.
You know, it's a whole.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Okay, did your father ever have any more kids.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
He I have a brother, Arman, with my mom, with
Margaret and my dad.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Yeah, and what is he up to?

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
He's a writer, actor, he was, you know, does a
bunch of his comedian great guy. My brother Max is
a director, works with Brian Murphy. My sister Zoe has
three boys and has a nonprofit called This Is About
Humanity and is married to a great guy Rob. And
I'm the only okay you know that's in the music business.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Okay, you're a guy. You mentioned you've been in the business.
What year were you born?

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Nineteen seventy one. I'm fifty two.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
What the fuck is it like having your f the fawns?

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Okay? So it was get first hen on my fourth birthday,
I mean my fifth birthday cake was spider Man, Batman
and the Fawns. Okay. And then and then literally bob.
This man walks into my grandparents' house to pick up
my mother in Brentwood, and I opened the door and

I said, oh, my god, Phonsie, and he said, uh,
my name is Henry. How would you like it if
I called you Ralph? And I was like, whoa, who
the fuck is this guy? Right? And I think you know,
Legends is I kicked him and then walked away. But like,
it was unbelievable. It allowed me to live a life
beyond my wildest dreams. It was, I'd be honest, it
was not easy for me, and to be quite frank,

I don't talk about it very often, so I'm happy
to talk about it with you now. But he uh,
you know it was it was major Fawn's time that
I was also very guarded with how people kind of
viewed me or how people came into my life, you know,
But there was nothing bad about it. I mean, it
was unbelievable. I mean if I went to a concert,

you know, we met the band, you know, I mean,
it was unbelievable, right, It was like, you know, I
wanted us see David Bewie. There were O great here's
you know, I have a great I'll send you this
picture of me and Bok Fons.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
The Fonds is legendary to this time. Yeah, reading a story.
I was watching a video on social media today with
him and sliced alone. Okay, was this a burden? Could
you not leave the house? Could he not show up
with your ball game? Could you not go out to
dinner because people were bothering him.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
He always came to my games, We always went out
to dinner. It was a little crazy in the beginning,
but we were in La right, so it wasn't so
bad because we were here. You know, this man is
seventy whatever he is, and he literally can go anywhere
in the world and people will know who he is.

And that is unreal. And it's funny because of my girls,
Lulu and India, who are ten and fourteen. They went
they went to Century City recently with Nana Papa to
go shopping on a Saturday. They came home and I
said to Lula, how was that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
She goes?

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
You know, Dad, that was really crazy. I've never really
seen anything like that with Papa before, you know, like
that's it still gets crazy. We went to a Chiefs
game recently, a Chargers Chiefs game. It gets nuts. I mean,
people go nuts. Everybody knows who he is. It's pretty
pretty remarkable, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
How does it feel having the public own your dad?

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
You know? I was recently with him somewhere and we
met somebody and he said, this is my son, and
I said, nice to meet you. And the guys who well,
I must have been really weird and I said, no,
it's actually really great. You know, it's a pretty amazing thing.
I mean, you know, was it frustrating when I was younger, Yeah,

might have been. But I've always been very grateful for
where I come from and and all that stuff. And
you know, I think I'm able to do what I
do now at the level I'm able to do it
because I grew up in this way. You know, I
grew up with all these folks, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Okay, So when you grew up in your formative years,
what neighborhood were you in.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
I was in My dad lived in the Palaishads and
Henry and my mom lived in Tuluca Lake, So I
went back and forth.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
And when you were living with your mother and Henry,
where'd you go to school?

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
I went to school called Oakwood in North Hollywood. Sure,
in the in the eighties. Eighties were really good to me, Bob.
I thought I was in Rat most of the time
in the eighties. That's funny. David Marcus will always make
fun of me with the Rat jokes because he knows
I love Rat so much. But yeah, I mean I was.
I was a metal head. I was a Valley medal kid.

But I listened to so much music growing up, and
I was also a liner note weirdo. You know, So
as I got more into the management side of things,
you know, as I got older, or you know, when
I worked with Morrissey for a while, or I'd be
in London and I'd run into Nick Hayward and I'd
be like that record you made with Jeff Emrick, can
you tell me about that? Or when I started a

sanctuary working for mrk Right, I worked with Peter Asher,
and I mean I was just like, my god, you know, hey, Peter,
I'm on site, slim in the blue Horizon on machine
gun Kelly that conversation. Who is he talking to you?

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, right, okay, okay, but let's stay
with the appearance. What lessons did you learn from your father?

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
To be humble? To be extraordinarily humble and thankful from
both of them. My father, Howard, he took care of everybody,
and that was the greatest thing that I learned from him.
You know, I talked to everybody. I always am acknowledging

people I am, you know, in private or at home.
I made not my wife might tell you I'm not
the you know, the easiest guy to live with. But
you know, when I get out of a car at
a restaurant that I go to all the time, you know,
I'm hugging the valet guy. That's my guy, you know.
And uh, I when I go to a restaurant, I'm
a weirdo like that, Bob. But go to the same places.

I eat it the same places all the time. I
like to go where I know people. And that's what
my dad was. You know, my dad went to the
same restaurant every Friday night. You know. You know, in
the last ten years of his life. You said, at
the same table what restaurant was. It was called it
was called Vincenti And it's no longer in listening, Bob,

I'm serious, Like it was literally like Jesus, okay, fine,
you know, let's go. You know, that was his thing.
And if somebody was in the table and he came early,
they'd move them. I mean, you know, you know when
when the thing about my dad is that everybody for me.
People are always pretty good to me, and people always

will take my call, they'll always listen. And you know,
I was always very aware of other kids that were
full of shit and other kids that were not respectful
and not aware of their surroundings and aware of what

they had and didn't have. I mean, sure I was
dumb at one point in my life, but you know,
I finally feel at fifty two like I kind of
know what I'm doing a little bit and it's a
good place to be. But all that, you know, craziness
has certainly made me who I am.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
You know. Okay, so you graduated from high school, then what.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
I went to Georgetown for four years, had a great time.
I majored in music history and English, which was amazing,
and then I started working at Saturday Night Live in
ninety three.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
Well, were a little bit slower. Yeah, yeah, so you
graduated from Georgetown. Yeah, how did you get the job?

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
So? No, So I grew up with Bernie Brostein and
Brad Gray. I knew those guys for you knew them
from which father, right, both, This is actually quite funny,
and so we used to vacation. So in the old days, Bob,
you know, Hawaii was It still is a fun place,

but in those days it was like us, the dailies
guy named Bob Daley and his kids. So I grew
up my whole life the Rickles Warner Brothers. Yeah, the Rickles,
the New Hearts, the Joneses, Quincy, and I mean it
was you don't understand, like it's so funny. I never
really think about it. And a buddy of mine asked
me recently, Jimmy Ton Rickles, and I was like, actually,

I spent quite a few of Christmases with him, you know,
and then you'd have a dinner at the hotel and
he'd be roasting everybody in the room, and yeah, it was.
It was beyond right. So, and I knew Brad and
Bernie I was very young, and I always wanted to
work for those guys. The other thing was is that
when I was fifteen, I started working at Warner Records,
interning for Michael Austin, you know, Lenny and Moe and

all those guys. And so I was around that my
whole life too. Music was always what I loved more
than anything. But somehow, as I when I graduated, I thought,
you know, I'm just going to be a manager, you know,
and I kind of went and did that. It was yeah, sorry,
it slower.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
When you graduated, did you work for SNL or did
you become a manager.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
I went to SNL and I worked for Lauren. I
made Lauren's popcorn. He always wait, wait before you get there,
before you get there. Was it as simple as Bernie
calling Lauren. I got a guy and then you show
up most likely. But also he was very close with
the Austins too, so it was he always had a boy.
I understandings. He always had a kid, a guy, a

kid every year. That was kind of like the you know,
the great right the pop corn maker. And so you know,
I went and met them and it was me and
three women, three girls. One of I mean, they just were.
One of them was Ruthless. I remember that. And it
was you know, I actually had dinner last night at
Chunley in New York, and I was remembering in ninety three.

You know, there was no door dash. It was Jed
in the cab going to pick up dinner for thirty people,
you know, on Friday nights in his office, and you know,
it was that was an unbelievable experience, Bob, because I
knew him, I'd met him Lauren, and he was really
warm and nice to me, you know. And it was

Chris Farley, Sandler, Spade, Hartman. You know, I'm still friendly
with Sandler and you know, all those guys are still
good dudes. Unfortunately, I had a front row seat to
the whole Farley thing, and you know, it was uh
but it was May. I was un believe. I was
twenty two years old, living in New York City, working
for Lauren and you know, being an s L. But

every Thursday two o'clock was three o'clock was when the
band loaded in, and I would go down there and
I would just sit there for loading and dress rehearsal,
and I just that was the greatest that Aerosmith Pearl
jam Nirvana. That's actually where I met Mark Ketes for
the first time, when Nirvana played SNL in ninety three. Right,

I mean, just unbelievable experience because the music is always
what killed me, was always a thing that made me
the most excited.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Okay, wait, wait, wait, let's stop here. I've only met
you face to face within the last ninety days, and
you've certainly been warm and friendly and approached me. Is
that the secret of you being friends with all these
people because you can work at SNL and panted when
you have a lot of long hours at bonds people,

but you can work somewhere where there's a line between it,
or is your personality such wherever you go, you're going
to make friends with everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
I would say the latter. I mean, I it makes
my kids crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Sometimes when we're out, I talk to everybody. I actually
look people in the eye and say, hey, nice to
meet you, how are you, thank you, appreciate you, you know,
because people, you know, most people don't do that. You know,
most people are scared or they're nervous or whatever. But
my secret sauce has always been to just be genuine
and be myself, you know. And so yeah, that's that's

what I do. You know, I talk to people. I
talk to people for a living.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
Okay, I have my own theories, but I want to
ask you, how do you interact with famous people?

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
You just treat them like they're not famous. I mean,
that's the easiest way to do it. You know. I
agree that. I mean, I get Bob the only thing.
I mean, there's only been a couple times where I truly,
only a couple I can count on one hand where
I was like, I just I kind of I tried
to be cooler, and I'm not tried. But like you know,

when I met Chris Robinson twenty years ago. Like that
was just like, oh my god. And through a mutual
friend of ours, we became close and you know, now
he's you know, one of my best buddies. But like
when I met Jimmy Page, I didn't know what to
do with myself and it was very like it was
like a passing thing on the sidewalk in front of
the Marquis and I was with somebody that knew him,

and it was I just you know, there were no
high phones. I didn't get it. You know, it was
like BlackBerry days. But like those were the coolest things. Man.
You know, you just treat them like a normal human being. Honestly,
that's the thing you have to do. And for the
most part, they are normal human beings. You know, what
makes me crazy is when people, you know, if you're

if somebody treats you with respect, you're going to treat
them with respect back. And that that's just you know,
in life, right, I mean, that's how I treat how
I teach my kids. Right, Like we went to the sphere.
I told you that. On Friday night, we emailed, right,
it was amazing. I took India, my fourteen year old
walking in I'm like, listen to me. When you meet Josephine,
I want you to make sure you give her a hug.

You know, she knows. She's like, I know, it's work dad, right,
So like, I get to go to shows with my kids,
but it's worked for me. You know. When I go
to the form, I know who I'm going to see.
And one of the greatest things that happened to me
recently was I do a lot of analysis for the
eight and G guys, right, and so we go to
Coachella every year and they're I love all those guys,

Paul and the Golden Voys team. You know, they're amazing people,
and so they know my kids, and to me, that's
the coolest thing of the you know, and so they know.
Or we were Coachella last year and Lulu was then nine,
ran away from me, ran backstage because that's what she knows.
And the guy who runs the forum walks by and goes,
was that Lulu? And I'm like, yeah, you know, in

my head, I'm like, how cool is that he knew?
You know? So, yeah, it's all about just treating people
with respect, Bob. The worst is when they're an asshole.
That's the worst, you know, and usually means they're not
a good people and not a good person. And when
we were talking about like Bob Daily, right, he always
taught me to live in the lines always because I
was a little wild when I was younger. But he

always used to sort of hold his hands together narrow
and say bring it in jet. You know, all of
those guys, the good ones, you know, are good people.
You know, when something happened with my dad last summer
in his firm, first person I called reserving said I
got you call. He called Lenny and Dennis and he
put out a great thing in hits. And you know,

the people who are really good at what they do,
they return calls, they return them that day. They answer texts,
you know, they're mentions. That's the world we live it.
You know, there are a lot of people who aren't anymore.
Nothing makes me angrier than if I text somebody and
they don't have the respect to text me back, or
they don't answer an email, or they don't return a

phone call. It's just people who were worth their salt
don't treat people like that, I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
Okay, so you were SNL for a year.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Yep, I was at SNL for a year and then
what then I moved back to LA and ninety four
I moved back to LA the weekend of the White
Bronco Chase, which was hilarious, and I went to work
for Brad Gray as that company was coming together. At
Brostein Gray was really hitting its stride in the TV space,

you know, which was fantastic. And I did that until
two thousand. Okay, slower, slower, Yeah, wait.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Wait, wait slower. What was your job at Birlstein Green?

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
When I first started, I was Brad's assistant, second assistant.
So in those days it involved ordering big berth of
golf clubs for Michael Ovitz. It was you know, it
was anything like that. It was I'm driving to the studio,
take my car, I'm going to drive with this. I mean,
it was it was. It was all that shit. You know,
those were the days you just did whatever you were
told to do. And I did that for about a year.

But like that was and I knew those guys, right,
So I would sit outside his office. Bernie was in
the office, you know, right in front of me. He'd
sit outside his office, you know, on the phone, unbelieving,
you know, I mean, that was my education in showbiz
was those guys. You know, I knew most of the
people they were on the phone with, and at that time,

I would get phone calls from agents asking me if
O J really did it, So that was always really
exciting and fun. I'd be like, wait, what do you what? Like?
That was what I did. I knew all the comedians
and I would go to clubs and scout people, and
then I eventually, you know, got promoted and became a manager.
I had great clients. I was probably not a great

manager at that time in my life, but I had
really great clients.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
So who were the clients.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
Let's see Zach Gallifan Actus, Jill Soloway, I guess now,
Joey Soloway. I had Stephen Colbert for a minute. I'll
never forget. He sat me down at the then Century Plaza,
looked at me and said, if my career is not
better within you know, a month, you're fired. I was like, great,
and so of course that happened. I had Steve Carrell

for a while. I had a lot of young comedians.
I mean it was it was great, But what I
really wanted to do was be around musicians. So okay, yeah,
what is the key to being a good manager for
those people? Well, at the time, I don't think I
could have told you. But now what I can tell

you is you have to really be in tune for
what they want. You have to be present, and you
have to really be able to navigate this insane world
and give great advice and in that. At that time, again,
it was all about relationship. You know, It's always been

our relationships with cast and directors and all that stuff.
But you know, it's, uh, you know, that world is
completely different now, but it was always about listening and
being you know, being understanding and getting shit done. I
don't think I was very good at it then. I
think I got good at it later on in life.
I still have a couple of people I work with,

which is actually great because it helps me on the
logitic side of things, because it sort of brings it
all back full circle. Whenever I'm you know, at a
label or I'm dealing with a promoter for somebody else.
That always, you know, it's all it's all the same thing,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
So what happens in the year two thousand.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
In the year two thousand, I left Bilson and Gray,
and I went to go work in the music business.
I went to go work for Pat Magnarella, which is
a great learning experience. It's a wonderful guy, and I
mean it was amazing. And then I ended up leaving

there and going to work for a guy named Arthur Spiedak,
who was another great manager at that I'm sure you know,
and he taught me a lot because, by the way,
being a music manager is a lot different than being
a comedy manager. At least it was at that time,
routing doing all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
You know, Oh, okay, okay, tell us the difference.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Well, the difference is is that you know, you are
routing tours. You are you know, in those days it's
Thomas guides and maps and whatnot, and there's no you know,
the Internet is very young, and you know, it's a
different set of people and you know, labels and all
that stuff. But I had a front seat to all
of that insanity of all the emo bands being signed
and the Victory reference bands, you know, all that craziness

of that time of the you know, so interesting, Bob,
when you know just the way people were chasing bands
and the way all that stuff was happening was just
you know, it was just fascinating, right, and so I
would in those days every week I Got the Enemy.
And I was always an angliphile from when I was
really young in terms of the music I liked, and
in those days, it was Get the Enemy. You open

up the last couple of pages, you read the clubs,
and you figure out who's playing and what clubs, which
clubs are featured more, who's got bigger ads, And then
you go to the website. In two thousand and one,
two thousand and two, you know, you'd bookmark that stuff
and then you would figure out how you know who's
playing what, who's doing this, who's doing that. And that's
how I tracked bands back in those days, and that's

how I met the people at The Enemy, which was
fortuitous when I ended up going to work at Sanctuary
and work for Perry, Perry, Farrell and James, which was
two thousand and two.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
Okay, you were working with Arthur. How did you end
up working for Sanctuary?

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
I got a phone call from a friend of mine
who was managing Jane's. I need help. I need somebody
to work directly with Perry. You want to come over
and do it. There's this guy Merk, I said, great,
So I went over started working with my buddy Adam.
I walked into the office that first day and Peter
Asher's office was right in front of where I sat.
There was three thousand gold records on the wall. Was unbelievable.

And then I went to work with Perry every day.
And so it was when they were putting Lola back
together and Jane's was kind of relaunching again. I think
it was the Strays album that they just finished they
were putting out. If I could be wrong, but I
believe that's what it was. And Uh, Perry was really
into the flash mob thing, you know, with the Nokia

phones and all that shit. And so I went to
London to help him put a flash mob together. And
because I had been so into the NME, I had
read about this artist named Banksy, And when I got
to London, I met with Banksy, whose name is Robin
and Zach.

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
He makes the career of flying under the radar. How
did you connect with banks.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
I'm somehow I got in touch with I forget his name,
the guy who was wrapped zetting him at the time,
and that was the guy I got to him. But
this was way but this is like two thousand and one,
two thousand and two, This is like way way before.
And we did a flash mob and I knew the

guys at the anme just by emailing with them when
I was at Arthur with Arthur and James did a
flash mob in Coven Garden and Banksy did all the
artwork and the way that we got people to the
flash mob was different Banksy art through the city we did.
There was a girl holding a balloon in the middle

of trafout Piccadilly Square. I mean it was. It was
insane and I'll never forget it because nmmy covered it
and it was the opening when you opened the magazine.
It was the first picture was the Banksy stuff and
then the crowd of the flash mob. And I'll never
forget it because that came out that night. I went

to the show at Hammersmith and I was walking up
the stairs backstage and Rod Smallwood, who you may know,
Bob who.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
That's a whole nother story.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
I can't wait to talk about these walking up behind
Merk and Rod okay, and Rod turns around. I'll never
forget it, turns around, looks at me and goes nice work. Mate,
you know, and I was like okay, and then Mark
was like yeah, wait to go nice one. And that
was it and I went, well, they know who I
am and you know, and so show happens. I fly

back to LA sitting in the office, still working with Perry,
and I get copied on an email from Merk to
Morrissey and it says, jed in my Los Angeles office
will come pick you up and take you to the
studio today, And I thought, what the hell is called?
What is this like? You know, I wasn't even a

Morsey fan. And Mark called me and said, I need
you to go and meet this guy today. And then
that started, you know, crazy times with that guy for
three or four years working with him with Murk, which
was pretty wild crazy. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
See, he does not have a reputation for being wild
and crazy. He has a reputation for being mercurial, doing
what he wants. So dig a little bit deeper. What
was it like working for him?

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
I mean, he's actually a very funny guy, but it's
also he's very I guess idiosyocratic is the way I
would describe him. I mean it's a very uh, you know,
I talked you know he was you know, didn't talk
to waiters. I would do that. It was if something,
you know, if he changed his mind or didn't want
to do something, that was it. You'd move on to
the next thing. It was I made two records with him.

It was an amazing experience. He is a very strange guy,
but also very funny. We got along very well, you know,
but it was I was flying by the seat of
my pants, you know, it was making records, he was
canceling shows. I'd have to figure out how to bob
and weave and do kind of crazy stuff. And you know,
one great story, I'll just give you one great story

was the U Are the Quarry tour. This is two
thousand and three, and uh, He's supposed to play a
weenie roast or some k rok event on a Saturday.
I'm with Merk the Marquis and I call him and
I said, we're coming to pick you up. He says,
I don't feel well. I'm not okay, I can't do

the show. And I'm like, what I said, No, I'm
gonna come get you. He goes, I can't, I'm not
doing the show. I said, okay, I said, I'm calling
Joe Sugarman. We're on our it's a Saturday. We're coming up.
We're coming to the house. Let us in and we're
gonna see what's wrong. We got called Joe. He's like,
what I said, get in the car. I'll eat you
up at the house. Joe comes, we go, he's sick.

We cancel the show. The next day we have to
fly to DC to start pearsals for the tour. We
land in DC that Sunday and my BlackBerry is blowing up.
Ally McGregor, Rick Roskin. This one. That one. I call
Ali back, who's a dear friend still to this day,
and she says he's got to go on k Rock

tomorrow morning and apologize for missing the show or else
they're not going to add the record. I see, no problem,
I'll take care of it. Get to the hotel. I
walk into his room. Great, comfortable, Great. I said, by
the way, I need you to go on the radio
tomorrow morning to just, you know, say I'm sorry I
missed the show and we're going announce a reschedule work,
so I'm not gonna add the record. He goes, I'm

not doing that. I said, no, you don't understand they're
not going to add the record. It's k Rock. I
need you to do this for me. Please, just you know,
to be nine o'clock or ten o'clock in the morning
and be five minutes. I need you to do it.
He goes, no, I will do no such thing. I said,
you're going to go on the radio, and he goes,
I dare you. I said, okay. I went back to
my room ross the hall. I called the tour manager.

I said, find out who does the best Morris imitation
on the crew. Have to meet me in my room
tomorrow morning, nine forty five. He's like what I'm like,
just do it. And Ali, if you're listening, I think
I told you the story, but don't kill me. It was,
you know, twenty five years ago. Guy goes on the radio.
I'm so sorry. You know this guy, Charlie Brown. I

remember he did it. I went into his room. I said,
you were great on the radio. We were laughing so hard.
Merk called me and goes, a great job made or
I mean, it was one of those. It was like,
you gotta do it, you gotta get it done. We
did it. The record got added, and of first there
was some conspiracy theories about it because his fans are
so crazy. But there was a lot of shit like that, Bob.
I mean, you know, it was just it's just, you know,

it was. It was a good time. We lived in Rome.
We made a record together in Rome. One good story
from that was we recorded at a studio that Maricone
had recorded all those records with or there, and there
was a young kid that ran the studio. His dad
had run the studio. I'm not gonna remember his name.
And during Tony wiscons he was using the record and

you know, like two months in three months. It was
unbelievable experience living in Rome. I was probably thirty three whatever,
just great. He and I would drive Vespas to the studio.
We did that once and I said, you know, we're
not going to die. It's wrong. We're getting a car
and we would drive back and forth and God, and
it was great. And I said to them, I said,
you know what you do not get more kone to
do strings on a song. And he said, how are

you going to do that? I said, I think I
know how to do it. I said, I think what
I'm going to do is I'm going to ask this
gentleman who wants to be a producer and not running
a studio. I sai, let's get him to produce the strings.
If he can get more Coney to do it, then
this would be perfect. We'll do it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
So, uh we get more conne and it is I need.
I want thirty thousand euros cash the morning of the
session or I'm not doing it, no problem. I'm like,
what have I done? I call Mark. I'm like, listen
to what I did. He's like great. Mirk was, by
the way, and is an unbelievable advocate of artists always.

Mirke was the guy. Mirk was the guy. Bob if
mor Morrise, he's assistant, called me on a Wednesday. He
needs to see you. I'm like, okay, you're in Dublin.
I'm in West Hollywood. I was like what. I'm like, okay,
a call tomorrow. This is crazy Burk. He wants to
see me. He goes, great, go to the airport, get
on a plane. I'm like, what e goos, Just go

to the airport, get on a plane. See what he wants.
So that was that was those days, right. So anyway, uh,
week so morning comes or the sessions on a Monday,
it's now Thursday, I don't have the cash. I called
the label. I'm like, hey, I need thirty grand. They're like, uh, yeah,
it's a bank holiday. You're you know, we're not getting
it to you. I said, well, you don't understand. I

found to get thirty grand on Monday is not doing
the strings, and it's Morcone and it's amazing opportunity and
so I'll never forget it. I didn't get the cash
that Sunday. That's Saturday. I went down to the concierge
to the hotel, took out my AMX and I said,
here's my MX. I want you to charge me thirty

thousand euros on the MX. I want you to go
to your CFO. I want you to go to the bank.
I need to get me thirty thousand euros from Monday morning.
And we got it done. I walk in, give him
the cash. Great session, amazing four minute intro to the song. Unbelievable, fantastic, great,
knocked out of the part. Everybod's freaking out. It's more
to Connie, it's unbelievable. And of course Morris he's like,

I thought, I can hate it. Yeah, I've cut to
cut the three minute intro down to like thirty seconds
or whatever, and and me being the Putts, actually had
to go to the man's apartment and play him the
final version with the cutdown intro. I mean it was
he just looked me out and speak a lot of Italian,
but he just looked at me and he said, Marred,

I think means shit. So yeah, that's my Mortcone story.
It was pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
Okay, what's the next step in your career?

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
You know, I love what I do, Bob, and I
love advocating.

Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
No, no, no, no, what's the next No? No? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Then then oh Jesus Christ, yeah, more seed happens. And
then I leave Sanctuary I and I went to New
York for business meeting over somebody with a new project
I was going to get involved in. I'm at dinner
with this guy that wants me to work with him

and his wife and another and I just met these
dudes and they're lovely and I'm going to work with them.
And one of the ladies tables is twenty sixteenth December
where those communos on third and one of the ladies says, yeah,
you know you're dating anybody, And I'm like, no, not really,
you want to meet this girl. I'm like, listen, I
live in LA. I don't need to meet this girl.

She pulls out a BlackBerry shows me a picture of
this woman. I'm like, you know, yeah, I'd love to
meet this I mean, it was like that. And next
thing I know, I go to I go back to LA.
I'm texting with this woman. I came to New York
in January of two thousand and seven, went on a
blind date with my wife, Amanda, and I never left.

And so the next step of my career was being
in New York for about seven seven and a half years,
primarily working in the startup business, and I worked at
IAC for Barry Diller for a while. It was the worst,
you know, I was the music guy in the startup space,
and you know, it just it was. It was a
complete and total bummer. And then I so, you know,

there's just not a lot to talk about there. I
had two kids in New York City, which was great,
and all I wanted to do was move back to
LA And that's what I did in twenty fourteen, and
I kind of done a lot of different things.

Speaker 1 (01:40:44):
You know, how'd you convince your wife to move to LA.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
Well, my wife looked at me. It was after the win.
It was the I think it was like a twenty
thirteen was a horrible blizzard in New York. I remember that,
and it was she looked at me and saying, Okay,
we can either moved to New Jersey or to Westchester.
And I said, we're going to move to the Pacific
House state and she was like, let's go. I mean,
it was just that easy. She's from Englewood, New Jersey
and her parents are great. But yeah, it was it

was just that easy. It was like winter, No, we're done.
And we had two kids and the girls have had
a great life here. And then, like I told you before,
I fell into this ticketing space.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
Okay, and this parapatetic career. How did the money work?

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
Meaning how did I make money?

Speaker 1 (01:41:27):
Did you make enough money to pay your bills? Or
did you have to get money from your parents? Were
there not?

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
Always? No? I always made enough money, you know, it
was never you know, yeah, if there was an issue,
but it was it was never like that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:41:44):
I always, uh, you know, I was able to make
enough money. You know, definitely not a parental money situation.
You know, if God forbid, you know, would have been
a situation, but it was never like, you know, you're
a trust fund guy. It was just that was never
my life. Ever.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
So you've met a lot of famous people. Tell me
one person who really lived up to the Rep Frank Sinatra.
Tell me more.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
I in nineteen. I'm gonna say eighty six, but I
might be wrong. It might have been earlier. There was
an event for the Statue of Liberty or Ellis Island,
one of those things. There was a big thing in
New York City. I'm not gonna remember the exact date, Bob,
but it was and Henry was on the special or whatever,

and so we were in New York and I will
not forget this because I remember. I feel like it
was Sarah Jessica Parker. I don't know. There was a
lot of funny and interesting people there. And I was
probably fifteen, and there he was, and he came over
to speak to Henry and it's my son. And he
looked at me and he touched my head and said

your aunt, and boy, aren't you I was like, really shit.
That was Frank Sinatra. Yeah, that was pretty cool. You know,
all these guys I met, I met a lot of them.
You know pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
Oh, okay, since you're such a music fan, tell me
about one or two rockers you met who lived up
to the rep.

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
Cause most of them don't. So I know a lot
of them, don't. I mean, I, you know, the guys
that I really get off on pop or like a
lot of the session guys that I met, or you know,
I you know what you know those guys are you know,
you know, you know the guys that I love. Is
like sitting down with Lenny Warniker and being like, hey,

tell me about Rest Titlemen and Lowell George. What was
that like when they made those records? Like, to me,
that's that's the coolest thing in the world, you know,
to be able to have those discussions where, you know,
I listened to so much music all the time, and
when I used to know and I listened to it
like I'm always thinking about the production and how this
is working, and how that's working, and how did this

work and how do they put this together? And and
so for me to have those discussions, that's that's the
coolest thing in the world, to be quite honest with you.

Speaker 1 (01:44:08):
Okay, you have two parents, two fathers who have quite
a distinct legacy. Yeah, how do you feel about your
career where you are not as problem as they are?

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
Well, let's hope I have a career after being so
terrible on this podcast, Bob. But uh kidding, this is
when you say you weren't terrible, but that's fine. I uh,
I said that too much already, Bob. I am. I'll
be honest with this. Something I thought about I but

I knew very early on I was never going to
be able to give them that. I knew very early
on that the level of success that I grew up
with was probably not something I was going to be
able to offer my kids. But I the thing for
me that I'm able to offer them is experiences that

we love together. And music is that experience. You know,
my kids are lucky. They get to go to every
concert they want to go to with me, right which
they probably are over at this point going with me.
But you know, I enjoyed that, so I uh, it
really never bothered me that much. I mean for me

to know these people to know that that I'm I'm
kind of at a place in my life where I'm
really one call away from anybody I need to get to,
and you know, I feel really good about my career
and what I do. You know, I don't want to
be judged by that. I don't think about that very often.
I used to think about that, that I would never
be able to provide for them like that, but I don't.

I don't think of that as much anymore, you know,
I just I just love that I got to experience that.
I love that they get to experience that with Henry especially,
you know, out of my day. That's not around anymore,
you know, you know my kids, you know, my kids,
I think they finally get it. I don't know if
I think they've ever watched Happy Days, but they get it.

You know. It's pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (01:46:12):
How did hend we meet your mother?

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
I think the story is that my mother was working
at a or was a pr person for clothing stour Fields,
same Jerry Magnan that was in Beverly Hills a million
years ago. You probably remember that, and I think she
was she was there working. He came in to buy
clothes and he pasked her out and she said yes,

And those were seventies were great, man, that was really fun.
I mean that was wild, you know, very fun.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Well, certainly pre internet, pre cell phone camera. Okay, you
talk about all these shows you went to, two best
shows you ever saw.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
Taylor Hawkins tribute at the Forum was unbelievable. I mean,
it was everybody that I loved in one place, you know.
And by the way, I was hoping, you're gonna ask
me who I've not met that I wanted to meet,
and that would be Getty Lee and Alex Lifson. But
you talk about they're not that hard to me, Well,

no one's I've never been able to do it. So
Bob helped me out. I mean, those guys like you
see for me like I anyway, I that was unbelievable
that that that Taylor Hawkins concert was unbelievable. Was everybody there.
And then I've got to say, you know, it's probably
you know, I don't know. I go to so many shows.
I just I can't really I was thinking, I knew

you were gonna ask me this. You know, it's probably
probably something from a million years ago. Might have been
the first time I saw Kiss, you know, might have
been the first time I saw Cheap Trip. I mean,
I can tell you there's a lot of concerts that
were really bad. You know. I still go to a
lot of I go to a lot of old heavy
metal concerts with people that's pretty funny, you know, with
some of my best buddies from high school. But I

just love the concert experience after I left, you know,
being on manager, being on the road, you know, going
to a concert is like, you know, I'm looking at
the production. You know, I'm not looking at the I'm
not watching the show. I'm wondering how they got all
that in there, what's the trust? You know, all that.
That's kind of what I look at these days, you know.
And but and now I'm looking at how many people
are in their seats, and what do I think this

person paid next to me versus what I paid? And
dynamically pricing and all that stuff, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
So okay, so let's just assume your wife is out
of the picture. You were having a searching of the
soul moment at three in the morning. Let's not make
it three in the morning. You're having a searching in
the soul moment. Who do you call?

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
Hm? That's an interesting question. You know, I'm not sure
it's my mom, Henry or Margaret anymore. It's uh, it's
probably my family. It could be my friend Benjamin. But
but most likely it's probably you know, at the end
of the days, it's a tough one, Bob, It's a
tough one, you know. I don't uh, you know, I

don't share a lot of that stuff, you know. And
I don't have a lot of soul searching moments anymore
like that, or I don't share that very often. But uh, yeah,
it's it's I guess it could be Margaret. I don't know.
It might be my step mother.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
Oh, so are you still buddies? Is Benjamin from the
old days?

Speaker 2 (01:49:32):
Like growing Benjamin's buddy of mine from New York. You know,
he's one of my best buddies. I mean, you know,
I just you know, I I don't share a lot
of that stuff. Let me put you to that way,
you know. And I don't have a lot of those
soul soul searching moments. It probably should, you know, but
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
Do you not share that because you've seen been around
public figures so much.

Speaker 2 (01:49:53):
It might be it might be that, you know, Look, this,
what we've done today is the most I've ever spoken
about this, and asmen, was the first time I ever
spoke about any of this with anybody publicly. You know,
I always kept it very people knew maybe, but don't
really talk to me about it. You know, it just
was just was it just was, you know, just was

my life.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
Okay, when you're vacationing in Hawaii, et cetera, with these
household names, was there a clique a group of their
children who you all ran together with.

Speaker 2 (01:50:27):
Yeah, I'm still friends with all of them. Some are here.
There's some that aren't here anymore, but you know, which
is unfortunate, But most of them I'm still very close with.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
You absolutely, And what insight can you give us? Not
only you given us from yourself and you're here and
you say some of these people are not What insight
can you give about being the son or daughter of
public figures.

Speaker 2 (01:50:52):
Being responsible, not being an idiot? You just got to
know that. You just got to know that there there
could be a lot of judgment out there. You know,
just be humble, do your thing, work your ass off.
You know, By the way, now, I never you know,
when I said to my parents, like when I was fourteen,

I don't want to go to camp anymore. Henry was like, great,
you're gonna get a job. You know, my first job
at fourteen was at National Compact disc came next to
Fat Jacks the corner of Tahunga and Ventura.

Speaker 1 (01:51:26):
Remember that store. How often did you did Fat Jacks.

Speaker 2 (01:51:30):
All the time? Or I'd go down the street to
Henry's Tacos. But Bob, that was one of the first
CD only stores in Los Angeles, right, And so I'm fourteen,
I'm working with all these rockers, you know, who were
playing all these amazing like you know, Genesis records, like
I knew three sides like, but all of a sudden,
they're playing seconds out and lamps line's down a Broadway

and my mind's exploding and somebody's telling me, you gotta
listen to this Dark Side of the Moon. I mean,
like that was. That was unbelievable. That was That was incredible,
And I got, you know, discounts on CDs.

Speaker 1 (01:52:02):
Let's go back to the medals. So who were your
favorite metal locks?

Speaker 2 (01:52:06):
Oh? My god, Ozzy. My dad worked with Ozzie, by
the way, and I always loved Ozzy. I mean that
nineteen eighty six Ultimate Sintour. I saw Metallica Mustard Master
Puppets open for Ozzie two nights in a row, Long
Beach arena mind blowing. I was always into rock. Okay,
Zeppelin's my favorite. But in the eighties metal it was,
you know, it was Rat Motley Crue, it was all

that stuff. But I also listened to Stanley Jordan or
I listened to Hiram Bullock, right.

Speaker 1 (01:52:32):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
I listened to all kinds of music. I've always been
into that, the guitars, you know, all the old AC
DC stuff in Lizzie all that stuff, you know. And
then uh, and then I heard Pretenders Won, and then
I went that way, you know, and then I you know,
so it's I just love it. I listened to everything.
There's very little that I don't like. But if I

don't like it, I don't like it.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
You know, I work for Sanctuary Law before it, when
public et cetera. It ultimately imploded. Why do you think
it imploded?

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
That's a tough one. I mean, I think there was
a there's you know, I think there are a lot of
money spent, and I think saying no sometimes is important,
you know. So I mean, I don't really know. I
don't know the inside the ins and outs of that.
It's just I think they I think I think things
got a little crazy. That's all I know.

Speaker 1 (01:53:30):
Okay, as we speak, hypnosis was the assets were discounted
by twenty five percent. Merk was the face of buying
catalogs and paying for them. What insight can you give
us into that?

Speaker 2 (01:53:47):
I don't know anything about that. I just know Mark's
a music guy, always has been a music guy. He's
an artist guy. He's always been an artist guy. He's
always been good to me. To this day. We still
you know, we both support the same football team, Arsenal,
so we text often. I've known as kids forever. Yeah,

I don't know. I don't know too much about that.
I just know Mark's always been a big artist guy.
That's all I can tell you, Bob Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
And if you have a music business issue, who do
you call for insight and advice?

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
Eric Greenspand probably one of the first calls I make
Michelle Bernstein. Probably the second call I make smartest tour
Marketer slash live person who understands the live business better
than anybody I've ever met. Helped me understand the necessary

opportunity here on understanding the second dairy market and the
data it beholds, and how to apply that to the
primary she's a genius and a very close friend. There
are a couple other people out there too. Gean Solomon,
good guy, good friend of mine.

Speaker 1 (01:55:06):
And do you think a major act can go out
without production?

Speaker 2 (01:55:11):
Sure? He got'd be amazing. Nothing would be cooler. I mean,
I mean, I just saw you two at the sphere.
If they didn't have the graphics, there was no production,
I mean you know, I mean I it was Yeah,
I think that would be amazing. I think that would
be absolutely amazing. Then it's just all about the music.
But it depends on the act, right, So my girls

they don't want to see that. They want to see
the whole thing. But like me, if it was Crows, right, Chris,
they can go out without production and fucking heal it right.
So that's a guy by the way. For me, now
that we're close friends, like I get excited when we
share music together. I live to send him music that

he doesn't know but doesn't happen very often, and I'm like,
send me music, send me you know, that's all I want,
are his playlists, right, It's like that's the coolest thing
in the world to me, you know, it is to
be able to share my musical taste with other people
that have similar musical taste as me. That can rocket.
I don't know if you saw them when they played
last night. I saw that. I went to the first

Aerosmith Gross show. They're unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (01:56:19):
This tour is going to be amazing, by the way,
So can you name two acts that are new acts
that you're busy sharing with other people.

Speaker 2 (01:56:29):
There's a young guy named Billy Tibbles who I'm crazy for,
who Chris produced the record and it's on Chris's label.
He's got a great record out right now that Apple
Music is all over, so that's cool, which I'll send you.
And there's a there's a band out there called Eggy
egg Y that our jam band. There's the guitar players,

a guy named Jacob Brownstein and Jake Brownstein. He's unbelievable.
And those guys are are the next They're the next dudes.
They're the next part of that scene you know, to
kind of to kind of go there right, like I
missed Goose, I don't get it, but like they're huge,
Eggy is they're the next ones, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:11):
Okay, your name is Jed. What is the name on
your birth certificate?

Speaker 2 (01:57:15):
Jed. My great grandfather from Odessa was named Jeddy. I
think that was his name, and so my mother named
me Jed. It's just Jed. Bruce Weizman and an incredible guy.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
And you know, most people hear Jed and they think
of the Beverly Hillbillies and the cleupits. Was it tough
growing up with that name?

Speaker 2 (01:57:42):
I mean no, I mean it happened, but I didn't
give a shit. I just didn't even pay attention, you know.
And then after Star Wars I was Jedi, so it
all worked out the end, Bob, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:53):
And on that note, with your lightsaber, I think we've
come to the end of the feeling we've known. I
want to thank you so much for sharing your insight
and story with my audience.

Speaker 2 (01:58:04):
Thanks, Bob, It's a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:58:06):
Pleasure is mine. Until next time. This is Bob left

Speaker 2 (01:58:32):
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