November 6, 2022 • 36 mins
The Book of Joe Podcast begins with the Astros closing out a World Series win. Hosts Tom Verducci and World Series Champion Joe Maddon discuss Houston being one of the best teams all season. Yordan Alvarez was really impressive all season and the pitching came through in all aspects. With the amount of strikeouts the Astros pitching got, it didn't leave many balls in play for a defense that was still spectacular. Joe thinks this win will push teams, especially in the AL West, to try and create a hitting lineup that can move the ball around the field. Dusty Baker finally gets his World Series championship after 25 years of managing. Dusty has had the right demeanor to last so long in the game and had the perfect mentality to calm the situation and bring credibility back to Houston. As for the game itself, Tom was surprised to see the Phillies mood just tank when they were down. We find out the one pivotal moment that changed the outcome. The 118th World Series was entertaining and both teams represented the game well. We wrap up with music heard in Baker's office through the series. Joe thinks the season should end with ZZ Top and 'Sharp Dressed Man' for Baker's upcoming offseason.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey welcome back. It's the Book of Joe
podcast with me, Tom Verducci and my good buddy Joe Madden,
and the World Series is in the Books Joe. The
Houston Astros are twenty twenty two World champions. I know,
(00:26):
as manager of the Angels, you've got some good looks
at this team during the year. I'm guessing you're probably
not surprised that they wound up being the last team standing.
Not at all. I mean when I was pushed and
asked before this whole thing started, I thought they were
the best team in the in the hunt seeing primarily
you know, the Yankees gonna get to see the Dodgers
this year, the Padres but I watched them a little bit.
(00:47):
But but I was really betting on was their pitching
staff more than anything. Uh And of course the guy
that came through, Alva Reser at the end. I just
think he's one of the best hitters in the game.
I was really thinking about that yesterday, probably just fatigued.
I think that's where it's bat went for a while.
They were pitching him tough, elevated in kind of like
to go after Anthony Rizzo at times with these lefties,
and especially because he's so closed off, but he finally
(01:09):
got back to it. Um and again the rest of
the team, they played such good defense. They're pitching was outstanding.
You know, on paper, there's nothing that really lights you
up kind of other than because even they're starting pitchers
like Baldez, people really didn't know. I guess you had
a bad postseason last year, and and uh, Javier, people
really don't know. And all these guys coming out of
the pen, people really don't know if he actually watched them,
(01:32):
they're that good. So I'm happy for them, happy for
Dusty James Click is a friend of mine too. Um
So they they did it the old fashioned way with
outstanding pitching. And last point, I think last game was
almost formula the way it worked out for the Astros.
They could not have asked for a better script. Yeah, listen,
no fluke whatsoever. We're talking about a team that won
one and six games in the regular season and ran
(01:54):
through the postseason with an eleven and two record. Now
since we've gone to the three rounds divisional play, multi
tiered postseason four, Matt, it's just this Astros team and
the ninety eight Yankees that have put up those kind
of win numbers in the regular season and the postseason.
So you called it, Joe, they do to me, they
do everything well. I have to start with the fact
(02:16):
that there's so much swinging miss in that pitching step
top to bottom. I mean, they set a World Series
record and this is without playing a game seven with
seventy one punch outs in six games. It's just about
twelve strikeouts per game. So now you only have to
defend fifteen outs because the picture and catcher take care
of twelve of them. And when they do have to
take care of outs on defense, their defense is spectacular.
(02:40):
I'll give you one stet Joe at batting average on
balls and play in the World Series, and yeah, it's
got a lot to do with defense, but also has
to do with pitching staffs getting weak contact. Because when
the when the Astros weren't striking people out, they were
getting weak contact. The Astros hitters against the Philadelphia staff
had three o nine batting average on balls in play,
(03:01):
and the Philadelphia hitters against the Houston pit there's two
oh five hundred and four point difference and a huge
difference in the strikeout totals as well. It was plus
fourteen for the Houston Astros. So I don't want to
say they dominated Philly because Philly, to me, gave them
a run. They pushed them. They Let's not forget they
had two games to one lead, but yeah, six games
(03:23):
the better team did wind up winning. Well. Hearing all that,
it's gonna I think there's gonna be a big push
in all of baseball, but particularly in the A O West,
to get more of a contact oriented group within your offense. UM.
I think part of that is the one way method
of teaching hitting these days. It's the lift, elevate the ball.
I'm not diminishing the abilities of the Astros pitching staff,
(03:44):
but for the most part the way hitting is taught.
But with the way these guys throw the ball, UM,
you can see the swing and miss being part of it.
Sagara is an example of a guy that knows how
to move the ball in a situation, and he did
for the most part. Real Bodo is the guy that
surprised me. I think he was just absolutely gassed as
an example, but it's the fact that the league reacts
on an annual basis. Everybody's gonna talk about exactly what
(04:07):
you just said. And so how do you beat the
Astros next year? You just go up there and try
to hit home runs against them, or do you try
to sprinkle your lineup with guys that can actually move
the ball in situations and help create a different kind
of a vibe within your team offensively. These are the
kind of things that I'm in the LST that have
to approach and think about. Their pitching staff is not
going away. We talked about it the other day, a
guy like Valdez who the Phillies had just seen, and
(04:30):
everybody's going with the conventional thought that, well, they've seen
them several times now, of course they're gonna catch up
to him. I'm here to tell you if he pitched
against them next week or five days from now, he'd
have the same kind of result. With good help, this
pitching staff is going to be that good. But I
think it's going to take a different mindset, a different
method um regarding how to beat this group where you know,
pitching in genu where you get to these teams like
(04:52):
you're talking about that really have a lot of swinging
mists and the balls not moved, and I didn't even
think of it in the terms that you stated it.
But there's only fifteen balls that had to be accounted
for and play. That's pretty in resting. Yeah, you know, listen,
you mentioned Valdez and they did. I give the Phillies credit.
They made an adjustment against him in the game. They
did not change They didn't chase the curveball early in
(05:14):
the game. But you know, Valdez and Maldonado, they're just
so good working together. They just went to a Plan
B and he started throwing some more sinkers, and his
sinkers crazy. He's throwing it harder than he ever has
in his career. I mean he's hit nineties seven he
typically since with crazy movement. So yeah, the stuff is real.
We talked about Javier with that invisible fastball that he has.
(05:36):
The bullpen, I mean, it reminded me a little bit
of Atlanta last year where Brian Stinker what does bullpen
early and often knowing it's so deep, nobody got overused
and he had multiple good options. You see a lot
of teams like Philadelphia, you know the manager, let's face
at Joe, you love to have as many of those
winning pieces as you call them in the bullpen. But
Rob Thompson really only had two maybe three to go
(05:59):
to to shut the game down, and Dusty just had
so many more options. Call them even or a head guys. Um,
there's a difference, you know. It really stands out during
the regular season. Um, for the teams that they talk
about Houston winning a hundred and six games, you have
to have more than four even a head guys. My
number was at least four to having in a bullpen
to be successful. And I don't I don't know that
(06:21):
it's a hundred six games successful, but even her head guys,
you could bring in the game when the scores tied
or your head different reaction from from a lot of
relief pictures as opposed to when you're behind. So when
you could when you could stack your group with people
that you believe and know can pitch in those tight moments.
I'm talking from the sixth ending on and even sometimes
to hold the small deficit knowing that your offense is
(06:43):
capable or the other team's bullpen it's not as capable.
That was a big factor in the zero eight raised
run of the World Series was JP Howe and Grant Balfour.
These guys pretty much like the middle inning closures. And
that's what we were doing back then, is trying to
keep the game either close or hold a tie or
slight lead in the middle part of the game. And
a part of that that theory too, is that you
(07:04):
have to realize you're you're you're capable and allowed to
score more runs. So if you keep that game in
check six or seven, then all of a sudden you
have a nice two or three point seventh or eighth inning.
All of a sudden, it presents differently at the end
of the game. But you have to have these guys
on board. It's it's not easy to find. It's something
that you know, for me, what you would want to
nurture in the off season, really trying to establish and
(07:28):
find those kind of guys and pay them and have them.
And the other part is to find them yourselves among
your groups. Some guys just start cut out for starting
and those are the kind of things you have to
make that kind of judgment on early. But when you
could get a combination of youth and I love the
veteran relief picture quite frankly, because normally these guys know
how to either walk into a tough moment or know
(07:48):
how to to shake off a bad one, and and
and there really can be the stability of of of
a really good baseball team. Uh is any bullpen, and
that's why this this team one uh yesterday and moving forward,
I would really start with the dynamic bullpen where people
considered volatile, but when you get to seven games at
(08:09):
the end of the year, you like one that you
could really count on. Yeah, and along those lines, Joe,
I give a really big props to the Astros for
identifying those kinds of players in the bullpen, and even
position players. They just they're just terrific at it. You
look at the major contributors in game six there you're
Don Alvarez. They got it for Josh Fields, a middle
reliever at the trade deadline and sixteen, the Dodgers needed
(08:30):
a middle reliever, and the the Astros identified. Alvarez is
a guy they tried to sign on the international free
agent market just a few months earlier, but the Dodgers
had a little more money on the table. Signs with
the Dodgers, never played an affiliated game with the Dodgers
and was traded just a few weeks after he signed.
And so it was a scout Charlie Gonzalez that saw
(08:50):
him when he was a free agent, said we need
to find a way to get this guy. They did
think about Jeremy Pain, short stopped from the University of Maine.
Right A hundred and one players were picked ahead of
him in the draft. Yeah, has not only drafted him,
developed him. And when Carlos Krea was a free agent,
they were very comfortable letting a top shortstop like Correa leave,
(09:12):
trusting that Pain you could be that guy. He was
Ryan Pressley, a guy they traded for from the Minnesota
Twins because they love the spin rate on his breaking ball.
You know, we already talked about Valdez, a Bray, you, Garcia,
all these guys. They drafted a lot of America Latin
America who are not top prospects, but they scouted athleticism,
they scouted arm actions. Give the Astros credit because up
(09:33):
and down the lineup major contributors. They turned some pieces
that not everybody was on into major contributors. Yeah. I
think it's a combination of analytics and good old fashioned
baseball scouting. It sounds like that to me, but it's
a perfect example for me where analytics can shine to
identify the kind of player that you're looking for that
you believe plays or plays in that particular ballparker you've
(09:54):
seen be very successful with your group in the recent past,
so you get guys like Alvarez or others pain University
of Maine. I'd love to know if that was more
of a really eyeball kind of a situation where Scott
Area scout or supervisor saw this guy guy and kept pushing, pushing, push, pushing,
and you're done. I'm curious about that when too, it
(10:15):
sounds to me like that was an eyeball situation because
there was not enough data to to accumulated to determine
whether you like him analytically or not. But that's that's
what to me, that's the best way to do it.
You you can bind all of these things, but at
the end of the day, analytically speaking, I think to me,
that's where that part of the data, the information really
(10:36):
can contribute and contribute on a really uh outstanding basis
is the ability to identify somebody before he becomes somebody.
And when you get that kind of a thing working
in and really know what you're looking for, you could
you could identify the diamond and the rough. Yeah, by
the way, you're correct on Alvara has definitely eyeball. Charlie Gonzalez.
The scouts saw him, You're don didn't show the kind
(10:57):
of power we're saying now in the big leagues. But
he saw the frame, saw this wing, knew the potential
was there for power. An interesting story, by the way,
about that deal. Um. When the Dodgers asked about Josh Fields,
the Astros came back by text. They asked for the
Cuban free agent they had signed, why Dot, using the
(11:17):
initial for the first name Alvarez, And the Dodgers actually
had another y Dot Alvarez, a pitcher who they had
invested thirty two million dollars in, who was a free
agent from Cuba. And the Dodgers right away said, no way,
we had way too much money invested in this guy.
We're not gonna trade him now. And the Astros figured
out that there's a little miscommunication. He said, no, we're
(11:38):
talking about that your Dot Alvarez, the left handed hitter,
and he had gotten two million, And the Dodgers said,
oh yeah, okay, we'll talk about him. And that's how
the deal got done. Well, this guy's not done. He's
one of the best. He's one of the best young
hitters in the game. I think he was stifled. Like
I said, I think they You've suggested, and I think
it's true. They kind of start pitching him in a
in a better way. But I also think fatigue was
(11:59):
part of that, the fact that he was pressing. He
really wanted to get that big hit and he needed to.
That team last night needed him to come through in
that moment. Out of all that, the different players on
that team, what I saw this year playing against him,
him and Tucker, but him primarily. I used to that
mikey Trott would be standing next to me and I'd
say to Mike, this is one of the top five
hitters in the game. You're right. I do not disagree
(12:21):
with that. He hits lefties as well, if not better
than right ees power hits for average right And we're
gonna take a quick break. When we come back. I've
got to ask Joe Madden about the key managerial move
in game six. And speaking of managers, we have to
talk about Dusty Baker. Welcome back to the Book of
(12:46):
Joe podcast. We are wrapping up the World Series Astro's
four one win in Game six, and remember this podcast.
If you like this, you have to check out our
book of the same name, The Book of Joe. You
can buy it wherever books are sold. I mentioned the
key decision in the game, and it was pretty much
every day for Rob Thompson to the Phillies. It was
(13:08):
about controlling that pocket of two lefties and three spots
in the lineup Alvarez and Tucker. Here's the situation, folks.
You've got Zach Wheeler on the mound at seventy pitches
with two runners on base, one out. He has not
allowed to run sixth inning. Now it's the pocket up.
It's your don Alvarez. His decision is stick with the
(13:30):
plan that he went into the World Series really dedicated to,
and that is Alvarado on Alvarez, or does he go
off his own instinct plan, whatever you wanna call it,
and stick with his ace Zach Wheeler, who is throwing
the ball very well and certainly the pitch count is
not a factor. He went with Alvarez, and I gotta
(13:52):
tell you, Joe, I didn't have a big problem with
that because you're bringing your best left handed relief pitcher
in that situation World Series elimination game, he's managing aggressively. Listen,
I wouldn't have a problem with you with the other way,
because Wheeler was throwing the ball that well. But I
wasn't surprised when he did it because this is what
he has done. Of course, Alvarez winds up hitting a
(14:16):
three run home or four and fifty feet over the
batter's eye in center field. Now, one thing I did
think about as the change was being made, and I
texted my buddy Ken Rosenthal about this exposure in a
seven game series, when you're matching up the relief picture
on the same guy over and over again, he gets
more looks in real time, not just on the iPad,
(14:36):
about what the guy is throwing. Alvarez wasn't great, or
Alvarado wasn't great his last time out, and I just
think exposure caught up with him the way you guys
with the Cubs and sixteen caught up with Andrew Miller
in Game seven. I saw it happened to Brandon Marrow
with the Dodgers and seventeen, and saw it happened with
Nick Anderson with the Raise in twenty. I see it
(14:57):
happened a lot in a seven game series. Maybe it
was a factor and maybe it wasn't. But Joe, I'm
curious us your take about how to handle that situation
when it came around, because obviously that turned the deciding
game of the World series. Yeah, that was They had
that predetermined before the game, and I think Robbie had
that predetermined before the game. So it's hard to walk
away from that. The number of pitches thrown, Uh, it
(15:19):
really is not relevant at that point regarding Wheeler. You
would not even consider that. It was just a part
of the game that was sixth inning. You said it
was a sixth inning, correct, So in a sixth inning
you really that you you already have it laid out
after that too, and you feel pretty good about what's
going to happen after that. So I don't blame him
at all. Um, That's how they were doing things. That
was their method of operation to really like pull one
(15:41):
out of the hat right there and say, yeah, I'm
it's gonna stick with Wheeler right here, even though I
had this dude warming up. Now. The other point is
he's warming up, and then when he warms up, then
how do you use them later? Especially if he's been
used that often into the series. All of all those
things are factors familiarity. Um Again, when you talk about
Valdez as a starting pitcher and the kind of weapons
(16:02):
he possesses as a post to Varado, it's primarily he's
beating you over there with his fastbay. He's got a
good breaking ball, but he's gonna try to beat you
with the one primary tool right there. And uh yeah,
I mean that's something that you know timing in your head.
I'm sure you. Ordan was looking at that and just
he had he had one. His his mental clock was
said at a hundred miles an hour. He was getting
(16:23):
started on time. And then if you look in an
area and it just happens to be there, good for you,
bully for you. But you have a better chance, I think,
to do that versus a relief picture like that with
limited UMU select selection regarding his pitches as opposed to
avows or a starter that's really has a variety of
different things and looks and change of speeds to give
you more of a concern. So all those things are
(16:46):
playing in that moment. I don't blame Rob for doing
that whatsoever, but you're right, I mean, you're done with
the left handed picture. It doesn't bother him. I learned
that real quickly last year. He does not bother him
at all, doesn't bother Tucker at all. That's that's a
part of that group's success. So, yeah, something that you
would consider. You may think about it a little bit,
(17:06):
But in that particular game, Uh, their formula had been working.
There was no reason to walk away from it. Yeah,
I agreed on all that. Now, let's talk about Dusty Baker.
I mean, anybody in baseball, even if you don't really
know him that well, you're happy for Dusty Baker. Why.
It's not just because he's a good manager. He's a
good human being. And you can tell by the way
the players respond the Dusty, the way they play for him.
(17:29):
Of course, twenty five years managing the big leagues, he
had managed and won more games, including the postseason, than
any manager in history. Without winning the World Series. Well
that's over with. He got his World Championship. Of course, Joe.
You were there at the heartbreak in two thousand and two,
game six, five nothing, lead, eight outs to go. It
(17:50):
looked like Dusty was going to get that win. Early
in his managing career, and the Angels would not be denied.
So kudos to Dusty Baker well deserved incredible baseball life.
I thought he was a Hall of Famer whether he
won this War Series or not. This makes it even
more obvious that he is. Oh, I'm a big Dusty guy.
(18:11):
To he and I would talk a lot whenever we
were at the ballpark together playing against one another, even
to his son. His son, I was trying to help
him out with the project a couple of years ago,
and the Dusty was just anytime somebody attempts to help
your kid, you're indebted to that person forever. I feel
the same way. So we've always had that conversation. Working
against him and the other dugout Um. You know he's
(18:32):
always there with good teams. They're always there at the end.
And I know his team is always gonna play loose,
they're not gonna be hung up on anything. And he
handles both good and bad really equally well. I and
I think those are great attributes to be a major
league manager for many years, because if you if you
burn that candle too hotly or brightly, it's gonna eventually
burn out and turn on you. So I think he's
(18:53):
had the right demeanor, the right to have this kind
of shelf life in the major leagues. I think his
experience and how he is permits him regarding UH front
office is or GM or whatever to want him with
their particular group, because he's the kind of guy you
want when you have a team that's maybe poised to win. UM.
And what he did their post scandal to really calm
(19:14):
things down, I don't think he's been given enough credit
for that, just the way he would hanging the dug
out there and how he would not overreact. And I
would have to believe the players took counsel with him
a lot, and he and of course he did a
wonderful job with him, because they took it. They took it,
they wore it, they knew they did something wrong. Um.
You know, they didn't make a lot of excuses uh
landishly outwardly, and I think he had a lot to
(19:36):
do with that. I think the way he calmed that
whole situation down really was an absolutely brilliant job on
his part. So very happy for him, happy for his family,
and yeah he is. He was a Hall of Famer
prior to this. Ever, happening. Yeah, I like your point
about the situation he walked into listen. He gave that
organization instant credibility at a time when it was lacking
(19:57):
obviously because of the science dealing scandal. He handled everything
as he always does, with grace and dignity, just the
perfect guy. Jim Crane told me the story last night
that he put together, Jim Crane his own list of
people that he wanted as a manager. This is after
he fired A. J. Hinch and the general manager, Jeff
lu Now, and he knew he needed somebody with experience.
(20:17):
That was priority number one. He needs somebody who had
been through the wars, had been through a lot of
ups and downs, and obviously Dusty is going to be
on that list with all his experience and wisdom and knowledge.
Jim Crane took him out to lunch. He said it
was a two and a half hour lunch and it
felt like ten minutes. He said, we connected. We had
a lot of things in common. And he said, when
that lunch was over, I knew who my next manager was.
(20:41):
He called up Dusty the next day and he said,
you're my man. Let's go. And it couldn't have been
a better fit. And you saw the way I think
the players after the game responded, not just the winning
a championship for themselves, but winning for their manager and
that that's just a cool thing when that happens. Yeah,
when you get a buy total buying like that, it
(21:01):
really makes a big difference. There's gonna be a lot
of moments during the year when things don't go well. Uh,
sometimes a player needs to be picked up, sometimes a
manager needs to be picked up. And it just seemed
that they had each other's back from both sides, and
I was very obvious, and again I think it was
nurtured um obviously exactly when when Dusty came on board
during that particular moment and right his demeanor, his calm um,
(21:25):
his his his wisdom and he's got a ton of
that really benefited that group and it culminated in yesterday's win.
As long as we did bring up and it's okay
to talk about it now with Dusty. I guess two
thousand two games seven, five nothing, lead, seven ounts ago,
what's your memories of that night that game? Joe, Well,
(21:46):
it's almost you know, similar to a couple of years
ago when Snow came out of that game against the Dodgers.
We were happy he was taking Artiz out. We weren't
doing very well. Um and the other you have to consider,
remember two, this is an elimination game and it's hard
for teams to come back. You saw the looks on
the Philly Spaces after that home run yesterday by Alvarez,
and UM telling you, I've always had this talk with
(22:07):
my guys before playoff game situation even begins, that I'd
never want to see that look on our faces, this
resignation that it's over, that we can't fight back. So
I'm setting that up for the two thousand two Angels,
who were used to coming back and really had as
much grit as any team ever played on. So Dusty
goes out there, takes him out, and the guy that
(22:27):
ring in was at Rodriguez right uh right handed. Picture
really just through all fastballs and here comes Species and
that's perfect because Species only hit fastballs. So from our perspective,
we really liked that. But on the other hand, uh,
Dusty took the ball from Ortez and gave it to
him walking off the mountain. Are brilliant first Space coach
(22:47):
coach on Pharado Griffin saw this whole thing and brought
it to the dugout and that really stirred everybody up.
So yeah, it's one of those things. He brought this
guy in, and uh, I knew from our perspective because
I knew what I knew at that time, this was
the perfect matchup for Speece, So I was happy about that.
But then again, you still have to hit the baseball,
and that just opened the floodgates Earsty. And then Rob
(23:08):
Nin just wasn't himself at that time, So that particular
moment um, while you're dead in the water, the Skuy's
dominating and here all of a sudden, we get this
other opportunity. And then the ball goes over Reggie Sanders
heads and I'm run enough to take a to go
to the bathroom, and I went up there's uh cables
running for all across the hallway, a way all way
over to the Giants clubhouse, and that really upset us.
(23:30):
To Hey, by the way, I liked your observation about,
you know, elimination game where a team kind of is broken, right,
and sometimes you can see that. I saw that last
night as well with the Phillies, you know, because it
was in the Astro's park because the home run was
just not just important, it was monumental. It was a bomb.
(23:52):
And you have that Astro's bullpen as well. That game
felt like it was fourteen to one instead of four
to one. I kept looking at the scoreboard and saying,
there's three innings to go, and it's only a three
run game. But this game feels like it's over. And
I think if I recalled Joe, there was one time.
It might have been that same year, in two thousand
and two, or maybe it was five. You were playing
the Yankees and you noticed that the Yankees were broken
(24:15):
when they were out on the field. That's where I
learned it. I learned it in two thousand and two.
Was the game five in Anaheim. We had to beat
him in New York. Game was over like one o'clock
in the morning or something like that. We had to
fly back to Anaheim the next day. You're right, it
was five. You're exactly right. It was five, because we
came back and we beat him the next day. And
and the latter part of the game, I'm looking out
(24:37):
there and uh, you could see you had him. You
had him. Um, there was just a there was not
that that normal fight. To look in their eyes was
just different. And I'm looking from the dugout out into
the Yankees into it with a bunch of really good players,
and I thought to myself, Wow, this is something I
really have to pay attention to in the future, because
I just I never want that to be the look
on our team or my team at any point. So
(24:59):
I learned it and in that moment, and so I
would have, like I said, I would have that talk,
with that speech with my guys every year we went
into the playoffs just for that particular moment that reason,
because it's tough, man, when you when you get to
that point and you have all this resolve, you have
this fight, you have the script all year, and in
a playoff bomb occurs something like that, Uh the Angels
Beach in New York and then come back the beach
(25:20):
in a five o'clock afternoon game, and I went the
sun and everybody's face. It's it's not easy to fight
through these moments. So I've always encouraged my guys to
be aware that no something bad's gonna happen and they're
gonna have to fight back from it at some point.
In order to win this thing. Great observation. Hey, quick
break here and when we get back, I want to
talk to Joe about Dusty Baker's playlists. We'll do that
(25:43):
right after this. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. Joe,
now that we're done with the World Series, any final
thoughts you want to bring up about the World Series,
which is now in the history books. I did it.
(26:04):
I thought it did a lot of good for baseball.
I thought it was very entertaining. Uh, I thought, I
don't I don't know to what level was well watched,
but I thought it was interesting from my perspective. I know,
I'm in Pennsylvania right now, so there's a lot of
Philly fans, and maybe I was influenced by all of that,
but I thought both teams represented really well, um everything
that had been talked about and for those that are
really trying to become baseball fans, the importance of pitching
(26:27):
and how the Astros were able to dominate based on
their starting pitching and bullpen, and where with the way
the format is set up, a team that only one's
eight seven games has a chance to possibly play in
the last game of the year and win it not
unlike what Atlanta did last year. I'm always concerned about
growing the game and how the game is going to
be grown in the interest and uh so, you're always
(26:48):
looking for good moments, good storylines, whether it's Schwerber, whether
it was Valdez, whether it was Christian Jabier bier Lander
getting his first one. Um, there's so many cool little things.
Albrez's bomb to to talk about. So that's that's my
thing about this in this time of the year. Whatever
we can do to put in showcase the game out there,
(27:08):
teach it, have people become more interested in it, really
of shape the participants and and and reporting them like
you did man with all the little uh vin yes
that you had you in the course of the game.
To me, that stuff is kind of cool. So anything,
anything possible. And I think this series is the kind
of series. I don't know, it's probably as close to
(27:29):
the Indians series as I've seen in a bit in
regards to entertainment and the fact that people wanted to
tune in because both times, both sides, both teams were
kind of charismatic, and that was my takeaway. Yeah, I
will double down on that as well. Joe well said,
because remember this year started with a lockout, and at
the end of the season we wound up talking about
(27:49):
the game. Baseball took over and it was great. And
I think a couple of things worked here. You had
the new format with the postseason expanding, one team added
to each league, and you saw baseball, I don't want
to say ReVibe, but really pick up interest and play.
Just like Philadelphia, which had the longest playoff drought in
the National League, we all know it's a great baseball town.
(28:09):
Seattle came back to life, Baltimore came back to life
to reach the postseason. But certainly a team to keep
your eye on going forward. So as you mentioned stars
shown in the postseason, guys like Bryce Harper and Justin
Burlander in the World Series, and other ones that you
didn't think he would be headliners, which always happens. Jeremy
Paineo winds up winning the Ale m v P and
(28:32):
the World Series m v P and won a Gold Glove.
It's pretty good for a rookie. So yeah, I think
it was a great show for baseball, very entertaining the games.
We had a no hitter in the World Series, a
five home run game, for the Phillies, just about every
game brought us something that was really cool. And speaking
of every game bringing us something every cool, I always
(28:54):
enjoy the daily visits with the managers before World Series
game and with Dusty Baker, of course it's always entertaining
and there's always some background music going on, So like
keeping score during a game, I would jot down what
was playing in his office each day when we visited,
and it's a it's a great window into kind of
(29:14):
the varied interests of Dusty Baker, right he first day.
Game one was Muddy Waters, I'm gonna listen to some blues.
Game two, Fleetwood Mac, Game three, Eric Clapton, Game four,
me goes hip Hop Group H five was Tupac and
(29:35):
six was Big Mama Thornton, who's saying the original version
of hound Dog, not Elvis Presley. So that's kind of
a window into our guy, Dusty, and just to treat
to spend time with him, and I know, Joe, you
can relate to the whole music scene and get yourself
in the in the right way before a game. Yeah,
(29:55):
he's uh eclectic. Compared to my start me up with
the Stones before every playoff game running two thousand and eight.
I love that about Dusty. I mean, I my my
taste buds are there, but I don't have the same
kind of mental cachet that he does. Knowing all these
different artists and where they had come from and and
the ability to just pull them up and probably know
(30:16):
the words of each song. I think that's outstanding. But
I knew you're gonna bring something up about that. So
being that it was in Texas for me with Dusty, um,
I went with zz Top. And the one thing about Dusty,
I've always studies a sharp dressed man, so I'm really
happy for him. I think zz Top and sharp dress
man truly fits Dusty in this particular moment. All the
different accolades is going to pick up this winner, all
(30:39):
the places he's gonna have to go and put a
suit on. Uh. He is a sharp dressed man and
I love him for all that. Very nice. So this
kind of wraps up at least our world series and
postseason episodes of the Book of Joe podcast. And remember
this is based on the book, the actual Book of Joe,
which you can buy wherever you buy your books, either
(31:01):
the audio version, which is great, or old school printed
version Uh and Joe. I know you've been traveling around
the country or at least a lot of different places
in via zoom um making appearances. Do you have anything
coming up on the calendar where people might want to
check out a book signing or interview for the Book
of Joe. Yeah, surely, thank you. Friday November eleventh, at
(31:24):
from four to six pm, I'm going to be at
the Hazelton One Community Center here in Hazelton. That's where
a project is located. That's to to five East fourth
Street in Hazelton. So that's Friday, November eleventh at four
to six and then the next night, November twelve, Saturday,
at Bookends Bookstore in Ridgewood, New Jersey. It's two eleven
East Ridgewood Avenue and Ridgewood, New Jersey, And that's from
(31:45):
six to seven thirty my Root College Room. Make Danny
Healey is probably going to be in attendance. And then
on Wednesday in November six, I'm going to be in
Chicago Union League Club of Chicago. The event is UM
because it's kind of a luncheon and it starts at
eleven thirty and that's gonna be followed by Anderson's Bookshop
at six fifteen the same day, so that would be
again the same day being Wednesday, November six and that's
(32:08):
in Chicago. Also going to be part of an autograph
show there on November eighteen, up, big, big autograph show
in Chicago going to be there. Um, I can't remember
exactly what it is, but I know you could find
that easily. So it's kind of busy. You're right, been
on a lot of zoomers and uh different kind of
interviews that's been outstanding. And yesterday I did a signing
up at Barnes and Noble. I just want you to
know we did a nice job of selling some books
(32:28):
up there was a great crowd, So I really I do,
and I know you do appreciate everybody that's been purchasing
these books. And we've got a lot of great feedback
about it. And I also want to thank I Heart
Radio for giving us us this platform, Vince to put
all these messages out there that everything kind of dovetails
into what we've been talking about here for the last
couple of weeks and regard to what's in the book,
(32:49):
and Tom has done a wonderful job of bringing that
all together and finally, tom thank you. I mean Tommy's
the guy that's directed me through all of this, and
I would not be able to do either the book
or this particular podcast without his guidance. So I really
want to appreciate all your expert tease and friendship to
listen saying for me, the crew behind us has been
outstanding both and putting the book together and the podcast.
(33:11):
And and I think you think like me, Joe, you
only want to do something to the highest quality, and
it takes literally a team. And our names are on
the podcast, our names are on the book cover. But
there's many people who contributed to the final product that
hopefully you enjoy, either book version or podcast. And uh,
(33:32):
just a little bit worried about your golf game, Joe,
with all these appearances. Hopefully it's don't be, don't be. No,
it's getting better. Don't be. It's down with seven one
on the on the handicap thing. Okay, So next time
we play, you're giving me strokes, I hope. So I
would love to. I would love to be able to
give you strokes. I would love to be able to
be in that position, absolutely, And who knows if there's
enough demand out there. Maybe we'll come back with some
(33:53):
uh special episodes of the Book of Joe podcast. What
do you think I'm in? Man? I I'm very much
and I really enjoyed this and it and it helps
me mentally to stay focused and really follow the game
more closely. Just the exchange. I'm always into the exchange
of the conversation. I think it's a big part of this.
We've talked about that, the the trying not to be perfect.
That perfection is a boring concept because conversations and controversy
(34:17):
in a sense and Sue and that's good, that's good
for the game. It's good, like even to talk about
whether or not Robbie should have brought his relief picture
or Lee Wheeler in last night, and of course that's good.
That's that's that's good to create that conversation, whether you
agree with it or not. And that's what creates interest
in our game. And it needs to be more of
that bar room kind of a thing with civility also.
(34:39):
That's a big part of it too that I um,
I would like to be able to promote well said,
because I that's one of the reasons, many reasons why
I enjoy the conversations with you, because it's never about
just sticking out a position and stubbornly sticking to it.
We have way too much of that in the world today.
It's about offering an opinion and listening and maybe here's
(35:01):
something that challenges your position, and may be you double
down your position or it moves you off it, but
at least you are considerate of the other way of
looking at something. It's all about perspective. So thank you
for that. Joe, could I could I conclude with one
thought right here? Please do ah. This is something I
got from Johnny Vandamuro's reading, and this is outstanding and
(35:22):
it really uh kind of sums up this this uh,
this baseball season, in this World Series event. Kids are
always chasing rainbows, but baseball is a world where you
can catch them. And that's what just occurred. Beautiful, nice
way to end it. So if it is the end
or not, hopefully we'll see it down the road somewhere somehow.
Thanks Joe, Thank you Tommy, and thanks Vincent. Thanks I
(35:44):
heart appreciate it man, good stuff. The Book of Joe
podcast is a production of I Heart Radio. For more
podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio, app,
(36:07):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My
Heart Radio. Hey welcome back. It's the Book of Joe
podcast with me, Tom Verducci and my good buddy Joe Madden,
and the World Series is in the Books Joe. The
Houston Astros are twenty twenty two World champions. I know,
(00:26):
as manager of the Angels, you've got some good looks
at this team during the year. I'm guessing you're probably
not surprised that they wound up being the last team standing.
Not at all. I mean when I was pushed and
asked before this whole thing started, I thought they were
the best team in the in the hunt seeing primarily
you know, the Yankees gonna get to see the Dodgers
this year, the Padres but I watched them a little bit.
(00:47):
But but I was really betting on was their pitching
staff more than anything. Uh And of course the guy
that came through, Alva Reser at the end. I just
think he's one of the best hitters in the game.
I was really thinking about that yesterday, probably just fatigued.
I think that's where it's bat went for a while.
They were pitching him tough, elevated in kind of like
to go after Anthony Rizzo at times with these lefties,
and especially because he's so closed off, but he finally
(01:09):
got back to it. Um and again the rest of
the team, they played such good defense. They're pitching was outstanding.
You know, on paper, there's nothing that really lights you
up kind of other than because even they're starting pitchers
like Baldez, people really didn't know. I guess you had
a bad postseason last year, and and uh, Javier, people
really don't know. And all these guys coming out of
the pen, people really don't know if he actually watched them,
(01:32):
they're that good. So I'm happy for them, happy for
Dusty James Click is a friend of mine too. Um
So they they did it the old fashioned way with
outstanding pitching. And last point, I think last game was
almost formula the way it worked out for the Astros.
They could not have asked for a better script. Yeah, listen,
no fluke whatsoever. We're talking about a team that won
one and six games in the regular season and ran
(01:54):
through the postseason with an eleven and two record. Now
since we've gone to the three rounds divisional play, multi
tiered postseason four, Matt, it's just this Astros team and
the ninety eight Yankees that have put up those kind
of win numbers in the regular season and the postseason.
So you called it, Joe, they do to me, they
do everything well. I have to start with the fact
(02:16):
that there's so much swinging miss in that pitching step
top to bottom. I mean, they set a World Series
record and this is without playing a game seven with
seventy one punch outs in six games. It's just about
twelve strikeouts per game. So now you only have to
defend fifteen outs because the picture and catcher take care
of twelve of them. And when they do have to
take care of outs on defense, their defense is spectacular.
(02:40):
I'll give you one stet Joe at batting average on
balls and play in the World Series, and yeah, it's
got a lot to do with defense, but also has
to do with pitching staffs getting weak contact. Because when
the when the Astros weren't striking people out, they were
getting weak contact. The Astros hitters against the Philadelphia staff
had three o nine batting average on balls in play,
(03:01):
and the Philadelphia hitters against the Houston pit there's two
oh five hundred and four point difference and a huge
difference in the strikeout totals as well. It was plus
fourteen for the Houston Astros. So I don't want to
say they dominated Philly because Philly, to me, gave them
a run. They pushed them. They Let's not forget they
had two games to one lead, but yeah, six games
(03:23):
the better team did wind up winning. Well. Hearing all that,
it's gonna I think there's gonna be a big push
in all of baseball, but particularly in the A O West,
to get more of a contact oriented group within your offense. UM.
I think part of that is the one way method
of teaching hitting these days. It's the lift, elevate the ball.
I'm not diminishing the abilities of the Astros pitching staff,
(03:44):
but for the most part the way hitting is taught.
But with the way these guys throw the ball, UM,
you can see the swing and miss being part of it.
Sagara is an example of a guy that knows how
to move the ball in a situation, and he did
for the most part. Real Bodo is the guy that
surprised me. I think he was just absolutely gassed as
an example, but it's the fact that the league reacts
on an annual basis. Everybody's gonna talk about exactly what
(04:07):
you just said. And so how do you beat the
Astros next year? You just go up there and try
to hit home runs against them, or do you try
to sprinkle your lineup with guys that can actually move
the ball in situations and help create a different kind
of a vibe within your team offensively. These are the
kind of things that I'm in the LST that have
to approach and think about. Their pitching staff is not
going away. We talked about it the other day, a
guy like Valdez who the Phillies had just seen, and
(04:30):
everybody's going with the conventional thought that, well, they've seen
them several times now, of course they're gonna catch up
to him. I'm here to tell you if he pitched
against them next week or five days from now, he'd
have the same kind of result. With good help, this
pitching staff is going to be that good. But I
think it's going to take a different mindset, a different
method um regarding how to beat this group where you know,
pitching in genu where you get to these teams like
(04:52):
you're talking about that really have a lot of swinging
mists and the balls not moved, and I didn't even
think of it in the terms that you stated it.
But there's only fifteen balls that had to be accounted
for and play. That's pretty in resting. Yeah, you know, listen,
you mentioned Valdez and they did. I give the Phillies credit.
They made an adjustment against him in the game. They
did not change They didn't chase the curveball early in
(05:14):
the game. But you know, Valdez and Maldonado, they're just
so good working together. They just went to a Plan
B and he started throwing some more sinkers, and his
sinkers crazy. He's throwing it harder than he ever has
in his career. I mean he's hit nineties seven he
typically since with crazy movement. So yeah, the stuff is real.
We talked about Javier with that invisible fastball that he has.
(05:36):
The bullpen, I mean, it reminded me a little bit
of Atlanta last year where Brian Stinker what does bullpen
early and often knowing it's so deep, nobody got overused
and he had multiple good options. You see a lot
of teams like Philadelphia, you know the manager, let's face
at Joe, you love to have as many of those
winning pieces as you call them in the bullpen. But
Rob Thompson really only had two maybe three to go
(05:59):
to to shut the game down, and Dusty just had
so many more options. Call them even or a head guys. Um,
there's a difference, you know. It really stands out during
the regular season. Um, for the teams that they talk
about Houston winning a hundred and six games, you have
to have more than four even a head guys. My
number was at least four to having in a bullpen
to be successful. And I don't I don't know that
(06:21):
it's a hundred six games successful, but even her head guys,
you could bring in the game when the scores tied
or your head different reaction from from a lot of
relief pictures as opposed to when you're behind. So when
you could when you could stack your group with people
that you believe and know can pitch in those tight moments.
I'm talking from the sixth ending on and even sometimes
to hold the small deficit knowing that your offense is
(06:43):
capable or the other team's bullpen it's not as capable.
That was a big factor in the zero eight raised
run of the World Series was JP Howe and Grant Balfour.
These guys pretty much like the middle inning closures. And
that's what we were doing back then, is trying to
keep the game either close or hold a tie or
slight lead in the middle part of the game. And
a part of that that theory too, is that you
(07:04):
have to realize you're you're you're capable and allowed to
score more runs. So if you keep that game in
check six or seven, then all of a sudden you
have a nice two or three point seventh or eighth inning.
All of a sudden, it presents differently at the end
of the game. But you have to have these guys
on board. It's it's not easy to find. It's something
that you know, for me, what you would want to
nurture in the off season, really trying to establish and
(07:28):
find those kind of guys and pay them and have them.
And the other part is to find them yourselves among
your groups. Some guys just start cut out for starting
and those are the kind of things you have to
make that kind of judgment on early. But when you
could get a combination of youth and I love the
veteran relief picture quite frankly, because normally these guys know
how to either walk into a tough moment or know
(07:48):
how to to shake off a bad one, and and
and there really can be the stability of of of
a really good baseball team. Uh is any bullpen, and
that's why this this team one uh yesterday and moving forward,
I would really start with the dynamic bullpen where people
considered volatile, but when you get to seven games at
(08:09):
the end of the year, you like one that you
could really count on. Yeah, and along those lines, Joe,
I give a really big props to the Astros for
identifying those kinds of players in the bullpen, and even
position players. They just they're just terrific at it. You
look at the major contributors in game six there you're
Don Alvarez. They got it for Josh Fields, a middle
reliever at the trade deadline and sixteen, the Dodgers needed
(08:30):
a middle reliever, and the the Astros identified. Alvarez is
a guy they tried to sign on the international free
agent market just a few months earlier, but the Dodgers
had a little more money on the table. Signs with
the Dodgers, never played an affiliated game with the Dodgers
and was traded just a few weeks after he signed.
And so it was a scout Charlie Gonzalez that saw
(08:50):
him when he was a free agent, said we need
to find a way to get this guy. They did
think about Jeremy Pain, short stopped from the University of Maine.
Right A hundred and one players were picked ahead of
him in the draft. Yeah, has not only drafted him,
developed him. And when Carlos Krea was a free agent,
they were very comfortable letting a top shortstop like Correa leave,
(09:12):
trusting that Pain you could be that guy. He was
Ryan Pressley, a guy they traded for from the Minnesota
Twins because they love the spin rate on his breaking ball.
You know, we already talked about Valdez, a Bray, you, Garcia,
all these guys. They drafted a lot of America Latin
America who are not top prospects, but they scouted athleticism,
they scouted arm actions. Give the Astros credit because up
(09:33):
and down the lineup major contributors. They turned some pieces
that not everybody was on into major contributors. Yeah. I
think it's a combination of analytics and good old fashioned
baseball scouting. It sounds like that to me, but it's
a perfect example for me where analytics can shine to
identify the kind of player that you're looking for that
you believe plays or plays in that particular ballparker you've
(09:54):
seen be very successful with your group in the recent past,
so you get guys like Alvarez or others pain University
of Maine. I'd love to know if that was more
of a really eyeball kind of a situation where Scott
Area scout or supervisor saw this guy guy and kept pushing, pushing, push, pushing,
and you're done. I'm curious about that when too, it
(10:15):
sounds to me like that was an eyeball situation because
there was not enough data to to accumulated to determine
whether you like him analytically or not. But that's that's
what to me, that's the best way to do it.
You you can bind all of these things, but at
the end of the day, analytically speaking, I think to me,
that's where that part of the data, the information really
(10:36):
can contribute and contribute on a really uh outstanding basis
is the ability to identify somebody before he becomes somebody.
And when you get that kind of a thing working
in and really know what you're looking for, you could
you could identify the diamond and the rough. Yeah, by
the way, you're correct on Alvara has definitely eyeball. Charlie Gonzalez.
The scouts saw him, You're don didn't show the kind
(10:57):
of power we're saying now in the big leagues. But
he saw the frame, saw this wing, knew the potential
was there for power. An interesting story, by the way,
about that deal. Um. When the Dodgers asked about Josh Fields,
the Astros came back by text. They asked for the
Cuban free agent they had signed, why Dot, using the
(11:17):
initial for the first name Alvarez, And the Dodgers actually
had another y Dot Alvarez, a pitcher who they had
invested thirty two million dollars in, who was a free
agent from Cuba. And the Dodgers right away said, no way,
we had way too much money invested in this guy.
We're not gonna trade him now. And the Astros figured
out that there's a little miscommunication. He said, no, we're
(11:38):
talking about that your Dot Alvarez, the left handed hitter,
and he had gotten two million, And the Dodgers said,
oh yeah, okay, we'll talk about him. And that's how
the deal got done. Well, this guy's not done. He's
one of the best. He's one of the best young
hitters in the game. I think he was stifled. Like
I said, I think they You've suggested, and I think
it's true. They kind of start pitching him in a
in a better way. But I also think fatigue was
(11:59):
part of that, the fact that he was pressing. He
really wanted to get that big hit and he needed to.
That team last night needed him to come through in
that moment. Out of all that, the different players on
that team, what I saw this year playing against him,
him and Tucker, but him primarily. I used to that
mikey Trott would be standing next to me and I'd
say to Mike, this is one of the top five
hitters in the game. You're right. I do not disagree
(12:21):
with that. He hits lefties as well, if not better
than right ees power hits for average right And we're
gonna take a quick break. When we come back. I've
got to ask Joe Madden about the key managerial move
in game six. And speaking of managers, we have to
talk about Dusty Baker. Welcome back to the Book of
(12:46):
Joe podcast. We are wrapping up the World Series Astro's
four one win in Game six, and remember this podcast.
If you like this, you have to check out our
book of the same name, The Book of Joe. You
can buy it wherever books are sold. I mentioned the
key decision in the game, and it was pretty much
every day for Rob Thompson to the Phillies. It was
(13:08):
about controlling that pocket of two lefties and three spots
in the lineup Alvarez and Tucker. Here's the situation, folks.
You've got Zach Wheeler on the mound at seventy pitches
with two runners on base, one out. He has not
allowed to run sixth inning. Now it's the pocket up.
It's your don Alvarez. His decision is stick with the
(13:30):
plan that he went into the World Series really dedicated to,
and that is Alvarado on Alvarez, or does he go
off his own instinct plan, whatever you wanna call it,
and stick with his ace Zach Wheeler, who is throwing
the ball very well and certainly the pitch count is
not a factor. He went with Alvarez, and I gotta
(13:52):
tell you, Joe, I didn't have a big problem with
that because you're bringing your best left handed relief pitcher
in that situation World Series elimination game, he's managing aggressively. Listen,
I wouldn't have a problem with you with the other way,
because Wheeler was throwing the ball that well. But I
wasn't surprised when he did it because this is what
he has done. Of course, Alvarez winds up hitting a
(14:16):
three run home or four and fifty feet over the
batter's eye in center field. Now, one thing I did
think about as the change was being made, and I
texted my buddy Ken Rosenthal about this exposure in a
seven game series, when you're matching up the relief picture
on the same guy over and over again, he gets
more looks in real time, not just on the iPad,
(14:36):
about what the guy is throwing. Alvarez wasn't great, or
Alvarado wasn't great his last time out, and I just
think exposure caught up with him the way you guys
with the Cubs and sixteen caught up with Andrew Miller
in Game seven. I saw it happened to Brandon Marrow
with the Dodgers and seventeen, and saw it happened with
Nick Anderson with the Raise in twenty. I see it
(14:57):
happened a lot in a seven game series. Maybe it
was a factor and maybe it wasn't. But Joe, I'm
curious us your take about how to handle that situation
when it came around, because obviously that turned the deciding
game of the World series. Yeah, that was They had
that predetermined before the game, and I think Robbie had
that predetermined before the game. So it's hard to walk
away from that. The number of pitches thrown, Uh, it
(15:19):
really is not relevant at that point regarding Wheeler. You
would not even consider that. It was just a part
of the game that was sixth inning. You said it
was a sixth inning, correct, So in a sixth inning
you really that you you already have it laid out
after that too, and you feel pretty good about what's
going to happen after that. So I don't blame him
at all. Um, That's how they were doing things. That
was their method of operation to really like pull one
(15:41):
out of the hat right there and say, yeah, I'm
it's gonna stick with Wheeler right here, even though I
had this dude warming up. Now. The other point is
he's warming up, and then when he warms up, then
how do you use them later? Especially if he's been
used that often into the series. All of all those
things are factors familiarity. Um Again, when you talk about
Valdez as a starting pitcher and the kind of weapons
(16:02):
he possesses as a post to Varado, it's primarily he's
beating you over there with his fastbay. He's got a
good breaking ball, but he's gonna try to beat you
with the one primary tool right there. And uh yeah,
I mean that's something that you know timing in your head.
I'm sure you. Ordan was looking at that and just
he had he had one. His his mental clock was
said at a hundred miles an hour. He was getting
(16:23):
started on time. And then if you look in an
area and it just happens to be there, good for you,
bully for you. But you have a better chance, I think,
to do that versus a relief picture like that with
limited UMU select selection regarding his pitches as opposed to
avows or a starter that's really has a variety of
different things and looks and change of speeds to give
you more of a concern. So all those things are
(16:46):
playing in that moment. I don't blame Rob for doing
that whatsoever, but you're right, I mean, you're done with
the left handed picture. It doesn't bother him. I learned
that real quickly last year. He does not bother him
at all, doesn't bother Tucker at all. That's that's a
part of that group's success. So, yeah, something that you
would consider. You may think about it a little bit,
(17:06):
But in that particular game, Uh, their formula had been working.
There was no reason to walk away from it. Yeah,
I agreed on all that. Now, let's talk about Dusty Baker.
I mean, anybody in baseball, even if you don't really
know him that well, you're happy for Dusty Baker. Why.
It's not just because he's a good manager. He's a
good human being. And you can tell by the way
the players respond the Dusty, the way they play for him.
(17:29):
Of course, twenty five years managing the big leagues, he
had managed and won more games, including the postseason, than
any manager in history. Without winning the World Series. Well
that's over with. He got his World Championship. Of course, Joe.
You were there at the heartbreak in two thousand and two,
game six, five nothing, lead, eight outs to go. It
(17:50):
looked like Dusty was going to get that win. Early
in his managing career, and the Angels would not be denied.
So kudos to Dusty Baker well deserved incredible baseball life.
I thought he was a Hall of Famer whether he
won this War Series or not. This makes it even
more obvious that he is. Oh, I'm a big Dusty guy.
(18:11):
To he and I would talk a lot whenever we
were at the ballpark together playing against one another, even
to his son. His son, I was trying to help
him out with the project a couple of years ago,
and the Dusty was just anytime somebody attempts to help
your kid, you're indebted to that person forever. I feel
the same way. So we've always had that conversation. Working
against him and the other dugout Um. You know he's
(18:32):
always there with good teams. They're always there at the end.
And I know his team is always gonna play loose,
they're not gonna be hung up on anything. And he
handles both good and bad really equally well. I and
I think those are great attributes to be a major
league manager for many years, because if you if you
burn that candle too hotly or brightly, it's gonna eventually
burn out and turn on you. So I think he's
(18:53):
had the right demeanor, the right to have this kind
of shelf life in the major leagues. I think his
experience and how he is permits him regarding UH front
office is or GM or whatever to want him with
their particular group, because he's the kind of guy you
want when you have a team that's maybe poised to win. UM.
And what he did their post scandal to really calm
(19:14):
things down, I don't think he's been given enough credit
for that, just the way he would hanging the dug
out there and how he would not overreact. And I
would have to believe the players took counsel with him
a lot, and he and of course he did a
wonderful job with him, because they took it. They took it,
they wore it, they knew they did something wrong. Um.
You know, they didn't make a lot of excuses uh
landishly outwardly, and I think he had a lot to
(19:36):
do with that. I think the way he calmed that
whole situation down really was an absolutely brilliant job on
his part. So very happy for him, happy for his family,
and yeah he is. He was a Hall of Famer
prior to this. Ever, happening. Yeah, I like your point
about the situation he walked into listen. He gave that
organization instant credibility at a time when it was lacking
(19:57):
obviously because of the science dealing scandal. He handled everything
as he always does, with grace and dignity, just the
perfect guy. Jim Crane told me the story last night
that he put together, Jim Crane his own list of
people that he wanted as a manager. This is after
he fired A. J. Hinch and the general manager, Jeff
lu Now, and he knew he needed somebody with experience.
(20:17):
That was priority number one. He needs somebody who had
been through the wars, had been through a lot of
ups and downs, and obviously Dusty is going to be
on that list with all his experience and wisdom and knowledge.
Jim Crane took him out to lunch. He said it
was a two and a half hour lunch and it
felt like ten minutes. He said, we connected. We had
a lot of things in common. And he said, when
that lunch was over, I knew who my next manager was.
(20:41):
He called up Dusty the next day and he said,
you're my man. Let's go. And it couldn't have been
a better fit. And you saw the way I think
the players after the game responded, not just the winning
a championship for themselves, but winning for their manager and
that that's just a cool thing when that happens. Yeah,
when you get a buy total buying like that, it
(21:01):
really makes a big difference. There's gonna be a lot
of moments during the year when things don't go well. Uh,
sometimes a player needs to be picked up, sometimes a
manager needs to be picked up. And it just seemed
that they had each other's back from both sides, and
I was very obvious, and again I think it was
nurtured um obviously exactly when when Dusty came on board
during that particular moment and right his demeanor, his calm um,
(21:25):
his his his wisdom and he's got a ton of
that really benefited that group and it culminated in yesterday's win.
As long as we did bring up and it's okay
to talk about it now with Dusty. I guess two
thousand two games seven, five nothing, lead, seven ounts ago,
what's your memories of that night that game? Joe, Well,
(21:46):
it's almost you know, similar to a couple of years
ago when Snow came out of that game against the Dodgers.
We were happy he was taking Artiz out. We weren't
doing very well. Um and the other you have to consider,
remember two, this is an elimination game and it's hard
for teams to come back. You saw the looks on
the Philly Spaces after that home run yesterday by Alvarez,
and UM telling you, I've always had this talk with
(22:07):
my guys before playoff game situation even begins, that I'd
never want to see that look on our faces, this
resignation that it's over, that we can't fight back. So
I'm setting that up for the two thousand two Angels,
who were used to coming back and really had as
much grit as any team ever played on. So Dusty
goes out there, takes him out, and the guy that
(22:27):
ring in was at Rodriguez right uh right handed. Picture
really just through all fastballs and here comes Species and
that's perfect because Species only hit fastballs. So from our perspective,
we really liked that. But on the other hand, uh,
Dusty took the ball from Ortez and gave it to
him walking off the mountain. Are brilliant first Space coach
(22:47):
coach on Pharado Griffin saw this whole thing and brought
it to the dugout and that really stirred everybody up.
So yeah, it's one of those things. He brought this
guy in, and uh, I knew from our perspective because
I knew what I knew at that time, this was
the perfect matchup for Speece, So I was happy about that.
But then again, you still have to hit the baseball,
and that just opened the floodgates Earsty. And then Rob
(23:08):
Nin just wasn't himself at that time, So that particular
moment um, while you're dead in the water, the Skuy's
dominating and here all of a sudden, we get this
other opportunity. And then the ball goes over Reggie Sanders
heads and I'm run enough to take a to go
to the bathroom, and I went up there's uh cables
running for all across the hallway, a way all way
over to the Giants clubhouse, and that really upset us.
(23:30):
To Hey, by the way, I liked your observation about,
you know, elimination game where a team kind of is broken, right,
and sometimes you can see that. I saw that last
night as well with the Phillies, you know, because it
was in the Astro's park because the home run was
just not just important, it was monumental. It was a bomb.
(23:52):
And you have that Astro's bullpen as well. That game
felt like it was fourteen to one instead of four
to one. I kept looking at the scoreboard and saying,
there's three innings to go, and it's only a three
run game. But this game feels like it's over. And
I think if I recalled Joe, there was one time.
It might have been that same year, in two thousand
and two, or maybe it was five. You were playing
the Yankees and you noticed that the Yankees were broken
(24:15):
when they were out on the field. That's where I
learned it. I learned it in two thousand and two.
Was the game five in Anaheim. We had to beat
him in New York. Game was over like one o'clock
in the morning or something like that. We had to
fly back to Anaheim the next day. You're right, it
was five. You're exactly right. It was five, because we
came back and we beat him the next day. And
and the latter part of the game, I'm looking out
(24:37):
there and uh, you could see you had him. You
had him. Um, there was just a there was not
that that normal fight. To look in their eyes was
just different. And I'm looking from the dugout out into
the Yankees into it with a bunch of really good players,
and I thought to myself, Wow, this is something I
really have to pay attention to in the future, because
I just I never want that to be the look
on our team or my team at any point. So
(24:59):
I learned it and in that moment, and so I
would have, like I said, I would have that talk,
with that speech with my guys every year we went
into the playoffs just for that particular moment that reason,
because it's tough, man, when you when you get to
that point and you have all this resolve, you have
this fight, you have the script all year, and in
a playoff bomb occurs something like that, Uh the Angels
Beach in New York and then come back the beach
(25:20):
in a five o'clock afternoon game, and I went the
sun and everybody's face. It's it's not easy to fight
through these moments. So I've always encouraged my guys to
be aware that no something bad's gonna happen and they're
gonna have to fight back from it at some point.
In order to win this thing. Great observation. Hey, quick
break here and when we get back, I want to
talk to Joe about Dusty Baker's playlists. We'll do that
(25:43):
right after this. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. Joe,
now that we're done with the World Series, any final
thoughts you want to bring up about the World Series,
which is now in the history books. I did it.
(26:04):
I thought it did a lot of good for baseball.
I thought it was very entertaining. Uh, I thought, I
don't I don't know to what level was well watched,
but I thought it was interesting from my perspective. I know,
I'm in Pennsylvania right now, so there's a lot of
Philly fans, and maybe I was influenced by all of that,
but I thought both teams represented really well, um everything
that had been talked about and for those that are
really trying to become baseball fans, the importance of pitching
(26:27):
and how the Astros were able to dominate based on
their starting pitching and bullpen, and where with the way
the format is set up, a team that only one's
eight seven games has a chance to possibly play in
the last game of the year and win it not
unlike what Atlanta did last year. I'm always concerned about
growing the game and how the game is going to
be grown in the interest and uh so, you're always
(26:48):
looking for good moments, good storylines, whether it's Schwerber, whether
it was Valdez, whether it was Christian Jabier bier Lander
getting his first one. Um, there's so many cool little things.
Albrez's bomb to to talk about. So that's that's my
thing about this in this time of the year. Whatever
we can do to put in showcase the game out there,
(27:08):
teach it, have people become more interested in it, really
of shape the participants and and and reporting them like
you did man with all the little uh vin yes
that you had you in the course of the game.
To me, that stuff is kind of cool. So anything,
anything possible. And I think this series is the kind
of series. I don't know, it's probably as close to
(27:29):
the Indians series as I've seen in a bit in
regards to entertainment and the fact that people wanted to
tune in because both times, both sides, both teams were
kind of charismatic, and that was my takeaway. Yeah, I
will double down on that as well. Joe well said,
because remember this year started with a lockout, and at
the end of the season we wound up talking about
(27:49):
the game. Baseball took over and it was great. And
I think a couple of things worked here. You had
the new format with the postseason expanding, one team added
to each league, and you saw baseball, I don't want
to say ReVibe, but really pick up interest and play.
Just like Philadelphia, which had the longest playoff drought in
the National League, we all know it's a great baseball town.
(28:09):
Seattle came back to life, Baltimore came back to life
to reach the postseason. But certainly a team to keep
your eye on going forward. So as you mentioned stars
shown in the postseason, guys like Bryce Harper and Justin
Burlander in the World Series, and other ones that you
didn't think he would be headliners, which always happens. Jeremy
Paineo winds up winning the Ale m v P and
(28:32):
the World Series m v P and won a Gold Glove.
It's pretty good for a rookie. So yeah, I think
it was a great show for baseball, very entertaining the games.
We had a no hitter in the World Series, a
five home run game, for the Phillies, just about every
game brought us something that was really cool. And speaking
of every game bringing us something every cool, I always
(28:54):
enjoy the daily visits with the managers before World Series
game and with Dusty Baker, of course it's always entertaining
and there's always some background music going on, So like
keeping score during a game, I would jot down what
was playing in his office each day when we visited,
and it's a it's a great window into kind of
(29:14):
the varied interests of Dusty Baker, right he first day.
Game one was Muddy Waters, I'm gonna listen to some blues.
Game two, Fleetwood Mac, Game three, Eric Clapton, Game four,
me goes hip Hop Group H five was Tupac and
(29:35):
six was Big Mama Thornton, who's saying the original version
of hound Dog, not Elvis Presley. So that's kind of
a window into our guy, Dusty, and just to treat
to spend time with him, and I know, Joe, you
can relate to the whole music scene and get yourself
in the in the right way before a game. Yeah,
(29:55):
he's uh eclectic. Compared to my start me up with
the Stones before every playoff game running two thousand and eight.
I love that about Dusty. I mean, I my my
taste buds are there, but I don't have the same
kind of mental cachet that he does. Knowing all these
different artists and where they had come from and and
the ability to just pull them up and probably know
(30:16):
the words of each song. I think that's outstanding. But
I knew you're gonna bring something up about that. So
being that it was in Texas for me with Dusty, um,
I went with zz Top. And the one thing about Dusty,
I've always studies a sharp dressed man, so I'm really
happy for him. I think zz Top and sharp dress
man truly fits Dusty in this particular moment. All the
different accolades is going to pick up this winner, all
(30:39):
the places he's gonna have to go and put a
suit on. Uh. He is a sharp dressed man and
I love him for all that. Very nice. So this
kind of wraps up at least our world series and
postseason episodes of the Book of Joe podcast. And remember
this is based on the book, the actual Book of Joe,
which you can buy wherever you buy your books, either
(31:01):
the audio version, which is great, or old school printed
version Uh and Joe. I know you've been traveling around
the country or at least a lot of different places
in via zoom um making appearances. Do you have anything
coming up on the calendar where people might want to
check out a book signing or interview for the Book
of Joe. Yeah, surely, thank you. Friday November eleventh, at
(31:24):
from four to six pm, I'm going to be at
the Hazelton One Community Center here in Hazelton. That's where
a project is located. That's to to five East fourth
Street in Hazelton. So that's Friday, November eleventh at four
to six and then the next night, November twelve, Saturday,
at Bookends Bookstore in Ridgewood, New Jersey. It's two eleven
East Ridgewood Avenue and Ridgewood, New Jersey, And that's from
(31:45):
six to seven thirty my Root College Room. Make Danny
Healey is probably going to be in attendance. And then
on Wednesday in November six, I'm going to be in
Chicago Union League Club of Chicago. The event is UM
because it's kind of a luncheon and it starts at
eleven thirty and that's gonna be followed by Anderson's Bookshop
at six fifteen the same day, so that would be
again the same day being Wednesday, November six and that's
(32:08):
in Chicago. Also going to be part of an autograph
show there on November eighteen, up, big, big autograph show
in Chicago going to be there. Um, I can't remember
exactly what it is, but I know you could find
that easily. So it's kind of busy. You're right, been
on a lot of zoomers and uh different kind of
interviews that's been outstanding. And yesterday I did a signing
up at Barnes and Noble. I just want you to
know we did a nice job of selling some books
(32:28):
up there was a great crowd, So I really I do,
and I know you do appreciate everybody that's been purchasing
these books. And we've got a lot of great feedback
about it. And I also want to thank I Heart
Radio for giving us us this platform, Vince to put
all these messages out there that everything kind of dovetails
into what we've been talking about here for the last
couple of weeks and regard to what's in the book,
(32:49):
and Tom has done a wonderful job of bringing that
all together and finally, tom thank you. I mean Tommy's
the guy that's directed me through all of this, and
I would not be able to do either the book
or this particular podcast without his guidance. So I really
want to appreciate all your expert tease and friendship to
listen saying for me, the crew behind us has been
outstanding both and putting the book together and the podcast.
(33:11):
And and I think you think like me, Joe, you
only want to do something to the highest quality, and
it takes literally a team. And our names are on
the podcast, our names are on the book cover. But
there's many people who contributed to the final product that
hopefully you enjoy, either book version or podcast. And uh,
(33:32):
just a little bit worried about your golf game, Joe,
with all these appearances. Hopefully it's don't be, don't be. No,
it's getting better. Don't be. It's down with seven one
on the on the handicap thing. Okay, So next time
we play, you're giving me strokes, I hope. So I
would love to. I would love to be able to
give you strokes. I would love to be able to
be in that position, absolutely, And who knows if there's
enough demand out there. Maybe we'll come back with some
(33:53):
uh special episodes of the Book of Joe podcast. What
do you think I'm in? Man? I I'm very much
and I really enjoyed this and it and it helps
me mentally to stay focused and really follow the game
more closely. Just the exchange. I'm always into the exchange
of the conversation. I think it's a big part of this.
We've talked about that, the the trying not to be perfect.
That perfection is a boring concept because conversations and controversy
(34:17):
in a sense and Sue and that's good, that's good
for the game. It's good, like even to talk about
whether or not Robbie should have brought his relief picture
or Lee Wheeler in last night, and of course that's good.
That's that's that's good to create that conversation, whether you
agree with it or not. And that's what creates interest
in our game. And it needs to be more of
that bar room kind of a thing with civility also.
(34:39):
That's a big part of it too that I um,
I would like to be able to promote well said,
because I that's one of the reasons, many reasons why
I enjoy the conversations with you, because it's never about
just sticking out a position and stubbornly sticking to it.
We have way too much of that in the world today.
It's about offering an opinion and listening and maybe here's
(35:01):
something that challenges your position, and may be you double
down your position or it moves you off it, but
at least you are considerate of the other way of
looking at something. It's all about perspective. So thank you
for that. Joe, could I could I conclude with one
thought right here? Please do ah. This is something I
got from Johnny Vandamuro's reading, and this is outstanding and
(35:22):
it really uh kind of sums up this this uh,
this baseball season, in this World Series event. Kids are
always chasing rainbows, but baseball is a world where you
can catch them. And that's what just occurred. Beautiful, nice
way to end it. So if it is the end
or not, hopefully we'll see it down the road somewhere somehow.
Thanks Joe, Thank you Tommy, and thanks Vincent. Thanks I
(35:44):
heart appreciate it man, good stuff. The Book of Joe
podcast is a production of I Heart Radio. For more
podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio, app,
(36:07):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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